=== Let's Drone Out — Episode 23 ===
Title: 23 tuning your pids with Joshua Bardwell
Recorded: 2016-02-04
Hosts: Jack "Brightontillifly" Nash, Jae "Chipko", Tony "TheTonstar1" Marchant, Adam Juniper
Guest(s): Joshua Bardwell, Simon "Bradderz" Bradley
Total audience: 2,897
Platforms: SoundCloud (http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/feeds.soundcloud.com/stream/248189561-letsdroneout-23-tuning-your-pids-with-joshua-bardwell.mp3)
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Finally We get some one who knows there pids on the show Josh covers everything to do with pid tuning and getting it right!

[0.0] Jack: telemetry recovered you're listening to let's drone out and uh you were joined by over to my
[8.94] Jack: furthest corner of my room tone star one and then next to him that is and then i'm bright until i fly
[16.22] Jack: online the ozzy favorite he's finally back again we haven't got rid of him
[21.9] Jack: yeah chipco yeah a good old chipco and for once someone who finally matters
[27.42] Joshua Bardwell: do you want to introduce yourself uh i think you're talking to me i'm josh
[32.22] Joshua Bardwell: robert well i don't have an awesome handle i just use my name no that's fine man that's
[36.7] Jack: that's legit and we are adding to the call uh hang on and maybe adam if we can get it to work
[47.1] Jack: because he wants to come on um right so yeah thank you for joining us um josh it's nice to
[54.3] Jack: have you on that's nice to be here yeah man um i follow you for anyone who's not in the know
[60.06] Jack: he does a really informative uh youtube video is very very full of technical and useful information
[67.02] Jack: and he covers uh things like um b.l heli um talks about uh how like pid tuning a lot of that
[77.74] Jack: useful a lot of a lot of math yeah and um useful like little tricks like light bulbs and
[84.38] Jack: you know to stop uh you know drawing too many amps and you know if you haven't quite got your
[89.42] Jack: setup right little little useful things man what's the youtube name uh it's my uh it's
[96.06] Joshua Bardwell: my first and last name joshua bardwell j-o-s-h-u-a-b-a-r-d-w-e-l-l and i'm sure we can get that
[102.86] Joshua Bardwell: linked too hopefully somewhere uh for people who can't write real fast um but yeah it was my
[108.86] Joshua Bardwell: youtube channel before i started doing this kind of thing it was just my youtube channel where i
[112.94] Joshua Bardwell: put up you know pictures of my kid and then i started posting uh black box log analysis
[118.62] Joshua Bardwell: and apparently people were interested so now that's now it's pretty much what i do on that
[122.86] Jack: channel ah and adam should be here as well yeah but i didn't want to interrupt someone mid-sentence
[129.5] Jack: no no it's fine adam's here right we're all here uh j you're gonna do a lot of talking i hope you
[134.54] Jae: got a lot of questions well i've got quite a few questions about pitch tuning i don't know if we get
[139.1] Jack: straight into it and get our teeth into it or not yeah do you want to tell everyone why you haven't
[143.42] Jack: been here what's been going on as much as you want well no i mean i had a road traffic accident
[150.06] Jae: where i was waiting at a tea junction after a lovely spa weekend retreat and yeah got smashed
[155.5] Jae: into the back back and had a few back and neck injuries so i've been out of action and looking
[161.34] Jae: after the uh other person in the car but all well i've been also flying a few things which is good
[167.42] Jae: but yeah um i'm back you know for the the could hold long holes uh now so good glad you're all
[175.18] Adam Juniper: right yeah we missed how many times have you been rung up by random solicitors offering to uh look
[179.9] Jae: after you so far um numerous times and it's already going through its own channels but yeah
[185.26] Jae: it's amazing how quick they they pounce on the the upper to do it i i haven't been in a traffic
[191.34] Jack: accident and i had six of those calls yesterday yeah yeah i've had i've had a fair few of those
[199.66] Jack: right so just before i was mentioning to josh earlier um is it right to call you that
[207.82] Joshua Bardwell: it doesn't really matter i'll address you by your full title
[214.7] Jack: right so uh good old dan upton who sorts us all out and he's kind of like my little
[220.38] Jack: technical go guy if like things are a little bit too hardcore but he goes yo if you do get josh
[225.5] Jack: you're on the show can you tell him from me i'm a big fan of his work thank you for your
[230.14] Jack: contributions to the community with brilliantly informative videos i especially appreciate them
[235.18] Jack: when i'm trying to explain something to someone and realize believe me yeah and realize that you've
[240.38] Jack: already done a video on the subject and explains it much better than i could and i'm often directing
[246.54] Jack: people to your videos slash channel cheers dan oh thank you thank you for that i really appreciate
[252.94] Joshua Bardwell: always good to hear your word yeah that's my motivation whenever i uh somebody asks a question
[258.3] Joshua Bardwell: and i'm like uh i know i'll make a video out of this and that way the next seven times somebody
[262.46] Joshua Bardwell: asks the question i can just link the video and eventually i won't ever have to say anything ever
[266.38] Joshua Bardwell: again i can just link everybody to videos where i already said it so so would you do if you've got
[272.14] Joshua Bardwell: a stray cat in your neighborhood right i don't have a video for that not yet straight cat falls
[279.1] Joshua Bardwell: into my trap it's on the hip on that link right uh yeah like i said that used to be just my
[283.9] Joshua Bardwell: personal uh youtube channel so you can see uh i've raised pigs i had sheep for a while
[289.42] Jack: where you based i'm in i'm in tennessee ah fair enough it doesn't sound very american
[295.58] Joshua Bardwell: sounds more connected yeah there's a lot there's a lot going on in america a lot of wide open
[300.78] Jack: oh man it must be nice though because you get way better flying weather than here because we
[304.78] Jack: must seem really miserable i bet you've like listened to the last couple of months and you've
[308.78] Jack: just been man do i really want to go on here that's why jay's here because he's so chippy
[313.5] Jack: chippy called chippy co like makes us all happier and more enthusiastic um right america's got a
[320.38] Adam Juniper: seattle too though you know they've got places which are just rain yeah i suppose um right i've
[326.22] Jack: got i've got a question um right because i've noticed a few things on uh flight test released
[333.82] Jack: a video the other uh like yesterday i think and they were doing like the basic setup of a nay so
[340.22] Jack: they flashed it with clean flight yeah they said flash like set loop time to 1200 i talked to dan
[350.3] Jack: and he said look if you're doing anything basic you might as well set it to a thousand whoever's
[354.3] Jack: making that noise um yeah so dan said set it to a thousand and though your processor won't be
[360.14] Jack: synced it's still running at the same time myself i know that 1500 is a bad sort of thing to run
[368.22] Jack: so i go kind of in between like the the 13 or something unlucky for some uh sometimes i go as
[374.7] Jack: low as 12 um but then if you run boris you get sub thousand anyway so right um and then i was
[383.34] Jack: watching rotor riots um like a little 180 build kind of thing and they were saying about running
[390.22] Jack: the you know you could not run you could turn a few things off and run the loot time as low as
[395.5] Jack: 1200 right so a little bit of backstory i'm a technician i work for a company called um
[403.66] Jack: radio c and we build quads and we can only do like limited tuning so i'm in you know i'm sort
[410.46] Jack: of like in a room i can't like throw the cord around too much and i want to set an optimal
[415.74] Jack: loop time but i can't flash to boris and you know i just want to set a loop time that'll work
[421.66] Joshua Bardwell: so yeah default what can you do i think uh yeah i think that 1200 loop time comes in because
[428.62] Joshua Bardwell: somewhere around 1200 1300 is the lowest you can go on standard clean flight on an f1 board like
[434.54] Joshua Bardwell: a nays without uh you know then that's just as fast as it can go um but i think uh what i used
[440.62] Joshua Bardwell: to do before i was running beta flight and we got all this acceleration and stuff is i would run a
[445.5] Joshua Bardwell: 2000 loop time um i mean in general the faster you run the the better it's going to change where
[453.74] Joshua Bardwell: where you're you know the aliasing happens i have a video on aliasing on my channel
[458.22] Joshua Bardwell: if anybody wants to understand i'm not going to go into that just explain it a little bit
[462.14] Joshua Bardwell: just touch well so alias there's a concept called the nyquist frequency
[466.62] Joshua Bardwell: or the nyquist limit which basically means that if you're sampling at say 2000
[472.22] Joshua Bardwell: hertz then any frequency below 1000 hertz is going to be captured perfectly and anything
[478.38] Joshua Bardwell: above 1000 hertz is going to be distorted by something called aliasing and it's going to
[483.42] Joshua Bardwell: basically show up in your lower frequency so if you have if you're sampling at 2000 hertz your
[488.46] Joshua Bardwell: nyquist limit is 1000 uh and if you have a frequency at say 1010 hertz you're going to
[495.1] Joshua Bardwell: have a 10 hertz basically subtract it out a 10 hertz like fake frequency in your data that's
[500.62] Joshua Bardwell: not really there and it's going to it's going to confuse your PID controller yeah so the faster
[507.66] Joshua Bardwell: you sample the higher your nyquist limit and the less aliasing there's going to be um but
[513.74] Joshua Bardwell: i mean i think there's a little bit of a law of diminishing returns
[517.74] Joshua Bardwell: and i always just used to set it to 2000 it's a safe if you just i mean if you're like you're
[523.1] Joshua Bardwell: in a room and you got to just crank out copters and you got nothing to do just 2000 because
[528.46] Joshua Bardwell: those people you're not going for like the ultimate performance anyway at that point and
[532.38] Joshua Bardwell: it's a safe value that's not going to get you in any trouble oh thanks man there you go yeah
[537.98] Joshua Bardwell: yeah but but even better even better would be to run beta flight yeah and then take advantage
[544.62] Joshua Bardwell: of all that wonderfulness but that may not be the easiest thing from the perspective of
[548.7] Jack: yeah newbies yeah right you know try and learn like nose in and it's just going at them
[554.7] Jack: like full full pitch and then you've got um have you yeah because you know have you ever heard of
[562.22] Jack: like oskar lang's blog i think you'd be great on there you know he's now got a new um a new
[570.54] Jack: forum and stuff i think maybe you should contact him and see whether you can put some a few things
[575.18] Jack: on there as well because um that's the other thing i wondered do you want to start a fight
[579.98] Jack: you know or what do you think ppm do you happen it's analog or digital i'm firmly on analog
[585.34] Joshua Bardwell: okay he's awesome his place is great yeah or make a lot of videos and he more makes
[591.74] Joshua Bardwell: blog posts um but he has a lot of technical information he's really good
[597.18] Jack: yeah and he just explains it pretty well what's up i say good old oscar yeah we yeah we get to
[602.94] Jack: fly with him it's pretty cool oh really he's out there yeah yeah he's he's near yeah 10 miles down
[610.46] Jack: yeah like literally he's like up the streets away but yeah he's he's such a good guy um
[615.42] Jack: what else have i yeah analog or digital answer me
[621.34] Joshua Bardwell: digital with an acceptably high sampling rate okay you'll never know you'll never know the
[625.02] Joshua Bardwell: difference traitor okay jay well i clear you know as a caveat you have to have an acceptably high
[632.54] Jack: sampling rate yeah jay what's your take analog or digital i don't know i'd probably go and decide
[640.62] Jae: it digital but again it probably wouldn't affect them yeah me if i just tuned in i think you're
[647.5] Joshua Bardwell: talking about records no we are it happens in the old lp debate i have no idea what we're talking
[655.5] Jack: about um yeah i had a few other like you know um yeah so um advice on tuning oh that's pretty
[666.88] Jae: open-ended yeah well let me start because tuning as people would have maybe got these
[673.84] Jae: things from jacket built them in certain amount after a while people do want that slight bit more
[677.84] Jae: performance in that response from their quads and i've come from age where i would essentially
[685.52] Jae: search for pits that would work on a frame roughly the same size roughly the same motors
[689.6] Jae: and everything and after a while i'd maybe find some that would work but i always thought i was
[694.0] Jae: cheating and it's not really the right way to do it but it's only the way that i've done it for and
[700.08] Jae: a lot of people have because it's it's still an art form to actually get these things yeah it's
[704.4] Jack: very very hard yeah it is you know um because like some people go with a black box method some
[712.24] Jack: people just kind of feel it out and yeah i i fly with just such bad pits you know because like
[720.48] Jack: you had tone you've had a go with my quads it was awful yeah and like i like it so it like
[725.68] Jack: drifts i like honestly my quads like a drift car it's like it just slides around and i'm like
[733.2] Adam Juniper: but jack is it bad if that's what you want i mean if you like the drift and it's yeah
[738.24] Jack: but my ese's like catch on fire yeah that's a kiss for you yeah i've always said i've always
[746.72] Joshua Bardwell: said and i'm going to keep saying that if you like how it flies that's all it matters i mean
[751.28] Joshua Bardwell: the tuning is always in service to the flight experience except if you're like me and you just
[755.76] Joshua Bardwell: love tuning right for its own benefit but if you're if you get pits off online or you throw a dice
[762.0] Joshua Bardwell: and you just type them in if you're happy without flies then keep doing it don't let anybody tell
[766.32] Joshua Bardwell: you different um but i do have uh people asking for pits like somebody will watch a video of like
[772.4] Joshua Bardwell: schizo or steel or final glide and they'll be like dude what's your pits and and it's i always
[777.76] Joshua Bardwell: feel a little bit silly about that because i think if you're asking for pits to learn like uh like
[783.04] Joshua Bardwell: if you show me a copter and it's flying uh lux float and the p gain is 6.0 i'm like well that's
[788.72] Joshua Bardwell: too high because i know there's a range right and i've learned that range by looking at other
[792.56] Joshua Bardwell: people's values but if you're just asking for them to copy them in people are like well what's
[797.44] Joshua Bardwell: a good pits for this frame and i'm like well i don't know what version of bl heli are you running
[802.0] Joshua Bardwell: because it's different what motors do you have what props do you have there's so many factors
[806.88] Joshua Bardwell: that if you copy somebody's pits and they turn out to fly good good for you but it's just kind
[811.36] Jack: of lucky and you haven't learned anything in the process only so yeah only once did i like when i
[817.36] Jack: very first started used some p and i because i was on the kk and that that worked pretty well
[824.64] Jack: and then i think i just upped my eye a little bit and it was it was pretty good you know i kind of
[829.76] Jack: i've got i've got that in the old school method of tuning but like the new sort of you know
[834.88] Jack: smoothing out the in between the p and the i with the d i never know i almost always leave the d
[841.76] Jack: alone and then i find myself trying to correct little bits and it's just not doing it i've never
[848.64] Jack: felt that sort of on rails feel like you have brad is his own way i've had josh i don't know
[855.28] Jack: you any comment on it he's probably going to take you down he's probably going to be like yo
[859.52] Bradders: i'm going to school you drop your d to zero brad is loves the d up your p's
[864.64] Bradders: until you get isolation drop the p down till the isolation comes down yeah i have your eyes
[870.08] Joshua Bardwell: slightly in there oh yeah finger d yeah that's that's basically right i think you need to start
[876.08] Joshua Bardwell: your tuning with your i and d relatively low especially d because if your d is way off it's
[881.76] Joshua Bardwell: going to change the way that p you're not going to be able to dial in p correctly so turn d basically
[887.36] Joshua Bardwell: off like zero to five is what i suggest and then tune p and you can look for oscillations on p
[893.52] Joshua Bardwell: and then i use a guideline of maybe 65 of the oscillation point which sounds way lower than
[898.72] Jack: most people like to run it but you'd be especially with g tune have you seen some of the things that
[902.8] Jack: g tune come out with i'm not a fan of g tune what the hell well half the time half the time it
[910.08] Joshua Bardwell: doesn't work at all so it's kind of a coin toss and then the rest of the time i don't know i don't
[917.44] Joshua Bardwell: feel like it i mean i feel like if you just gave a little effort and maybe this is not true for
[921.92] Joshua Bardwell: everyone you could probably g tune is going to get you like to 75 of your good tune maybe 80
[927.44] Joshua Bardwell: and that's easy you could do that in 15 minutes if you have just a little bit of knowledge you
[931.2] Joshua Bardwell: can do it yourself i think and not screw around i think i'm going to shoot you about 65 to the
[938.88] Jae: point where you got your oscillation because that is quite low from everything i've ever heard so
[943.28] Jae: but you think that then it's easier to tune in the rest and you know from that lower value
[948.16] Joshua Bardwell: well actually the reason i say that and of course it's going to be different for every setup but
[952.24] Joshua Bardwell: the reason i say that is that if you get to the point where you have visible oscillations like
[956.96] Joshua Bardwell: you punch the throttle and it goes it oscillates right then you turn it down to maybe 90 of that
[963.28] Joshua Bardwell: and the visible oscillations may be mostly gone but if you look at the black box you can see that
[968.24] Joshua Bardwell: the p term is still kind of going crazy and the motors the the signal that the esc is getting is
[974.48] Joshua Bardwell: going crazy and that creates micro oscillations it wastes energy as heat in extreme cases it can
[979.76] Joshua Bardwell: burn up your your escs and and doesn't actually result in a better flight experience and usually
[986.32] Joshua Bardwell: you get down to about say 65 or 70 percent maybe of the oscillation point you still have a very
[992.48] Joshua Bardwell: tight very locked in copter and and you're not having all those oscillations behind the scenes
[998.08] Joshua Bardwell: and then maybe you could work it up a little bit you know and feel out exactly where you want it
[1002.4] Joshua Bardwell: but there's there's not visible oscillations still happening under the under the hood
[1007.36] Joshua Bardwell: and that's why i say turn it down to like 65 percent that's excellent yeah it's a good one
[1012.24] Jack: i'll try this i'm just going to be replaying this episode over and over and being like taking in
[1019.68] Jack: it's like hanging out with yoda isn't it like the p id i mean it's i change to a transcript
[1025.92] Adam Juniper: when you upload it like you with the youtube that does a sort of automatic transcript and it's
[1029.76] Jack: appalling like it's always yeah i i think the funniest uh i was at i was at the uk drone show
[1038.24] Jack: and uh you you were you weren't with us but we went to this pub and um add adam was there with
[1044.8] Jack: me and dominick clifton was on the dance floor and thomas greer just goes oh my god don clifton's
[1051.44] Jack: dancing and then he's just video there was no video and then because he goes i wonder if he's
[1057.36] Jack: tuned his pits for that and we just died like the next 20 minutes we were crying just like oh
[1065.12] Adam Juniper: jack did something else at that bar no no i've already i've already done that but it is still
[1070.56] Jack: funny yeah um uh yeah what else um have you have you josh your channel reminds me of something
[1077.6] Jack: uh i force two have you ever heard of him no um because like i would love to like recommend you
[1084.88] Jack: because like if you guys like sort of like joined forces i think you guys could take over the world
[1090.48] Jack: basically because like you and him are kind of like the similar but he's only just got into um
[1097.76] Jack: into bl heli but he's got some fantastic kind of builds and that but you don't really cover your
[1103.44] Jack: builds that much like you never i hardly ever see you like do any scratch builds like where did you
[1108.64] Jack: come from how did you get into the hobby that sort of stuff that's what i know yeah i i built
[1114.08] Joshua Bardwell: my first uh it was a flight test electro hub hey yeah oh man i had the wooden original from that
[1121.2] Joshua Bardwell: yeah yeah with the with the with the poplar booms yeah man um oh my god that was in august of 2014
[1129.12] Joshua Bardwell: and then i've got uh my first 250 in maybe like a year ago i guess i didn't look it up but maybe
[1139.04] Joshua Bardwell: like a year ago i don't do a super lot of builds um i kind of have had a full i'm only just i've
[1144.72] Joshua Bardwell: got like three builds i'm working on now and i'll be sort of posting about them but i've had a kind
[1150.0] Joshua Bardwell: of a philosophy of like i just want to like get this one really like i don't want to just buy a new
[1155.84] Joshua Bardwell: you know the guy who like owns 57 guitars but can't play yeah i don't want i kind of don't want
[1160.32] Joshua Bardwell: to be that guy i mean if you like if you like building copters i'm not trying to be judgmental
[1164.08] Joshua Bardwell: you can fly just get good at flying this one copter yeah before i start branching out yeah
[1170.8] Jack: because i'm i basically want to get like into tuning i've always kind of shied away from it
[1176.56] Jack: a bit and i kind of i kind of just learned to work with my crummy tuning and um because like
[1184.72] Jack: i think i'm more into acro flying and you kind of need a good tune for that um but like racing
[1194.32] Jack: wise i struggled like to make good corrections and stuff and i was kind of every time i'd get
[1199.76] Jack: somewhere i'd break my quad so badly because i was running a zmr for ages you know and it would just
[1208.88] Jack: you know i changed the arms and then when i broke them i couldn't get hold of them anymore
[1214.24] Jack: so i've kind of never and i kind of want to just set myself the challenge of being able to tune
[1220.0] Jack: a quad well enough so that um the the kiss 18 eses don't explode on me because i ran into
[1228.48] Jack: i i was uh i was with you jay at the uav uh thing what was it called again
[1235.44] Jae: uh i can't remember the name of the one at the excel yeah yeah yeah we went um commercial uav
[1243.2] Jack: yeah it's a good hang on good youtube channel i posted the link in the um description
[1250.8] Jack: channel um yeah if you don't mind checking that out uh josh i think you'll you'll like that um
[1257.76] Jack: i posted it in the chat as well uh yeah and i ran into this guy and i was like you know looking is
[1263.28] Jack: he had like a little mini 180 and it was probably some sort of diatone i was just like don't you
[1268.0] Jack: find these explode on you because like every kiss ese i've had just in flames in seconds
[1274.16] Jack: because it's kind of like an in thing you hear me say all the time don't be on fire
[1278.08] Jack: because i'm constantly on fire yeah and um the guy just said to me no if you get your tune really
[1283.44] Jack: well they they run and i i really like the feel of kiss eses coming back they don't know if they're
[1288.8] Bradders: new 32-bit chips or whatever it is yeah they're meant to be the nuts yeah and they have the uh
[1295.04] Joshua Bardwell: the new the new 24 uh the 24s have the uh the telemetry built-in that talks to the kiss flight
[1302.8] Joshua Bardwell: controller and does current sensing and rpm readouts that whole that whole setup is really
[1309.36] Tony: really well integrated and really cool it just costs so much money well right yeah because we're
[1315.36] Tony: we're we change stuff every five minutes don't we yeah i mean speaking of which tone you're gonna
[1320.64] Jack: love um joshua because you're running the infamous naze 32 what red oh the blow up
[1330.96] Jack: fall out of sky rev six yeah rev six and he's just getting oscillations he can't get rid of
[1336.72] Jack: and i think you've created some sort of war where everyone's slagging off the the rev six now and i
[1342.8] Joshua Bardwell: i solely blame you josh i i you know and i was just repeating something that i heard i heard
[1350.16] Joshua Bardwell: it first from moto over on the cyclone thread and he was talking about why he selected the chip
[1355.36] Joshua Bardwell: that he put on his new board and he actually slagged off the it's the 6500 chip i think it is
[1361.76] Joshua Bardwell: that's on the naze 32 rev six and i started looking at it and going well that's interesting
[1366.96] Joshua Bardwell: and then i did a rundown of the flight controllers all the ones on the market they don't bit the big
[1371.2] Joshua Bardwell: ones anyway and i one of the things i said was well look basically there's so much choice out
[1376.64] Joshua Bardwell: there there's no reason to take a chance that this chip is going to work worse because you don't
[1382.56] Joshua Bardwell: have to settle and i think that kind of got interpreted into that this chip was bad and
[1388.0] Joshua Bardwell: worthless and should be rejected and and then uh you know so i guess people are listening yeah
[1394.24] Jack: because i i now time cops stopped making the rev five there's almost like a non reliable board
[1401.04] Jack: yeah there's nothing out there is it yeah because like the sp3 i run it i really like that board
[1406.64] Jack: i can get over like the headers that he's using you know the plastic um what are they jst connectors
[1413.84] Jack: or something micro yeah micro things i can get over that because it's a couple of uart ports the
[1418.96] Jack: only one you have to really deal with is the one for your receiver which is yeah it's a little bit
[1424.0] Jack: of a pain in the ass but you know what i can live with it and and that's fine but you know the the
[1429.84] Jack: manufacturing issues on here um to begin with um there's a lot of clone boards out for everyone
[1436.4] Jack: else now hundreds of them yeah um you know like the tornado is a pretty good board but you've kind
[1442.56] Jack: of got a you know you got to modify your um the headers for your motor pin so they're only two
[1450.16] Jack: wide so there's no center pin you got to add a palulu um it doesn't and it doesn't do bl heli
[1456.08] Joshua Bardwell: pass through which is yeah for me i know people are like whoa i don't want to just unplug your
[1459.84] Joshua Bardwell: escs but it's really a deal breaker for me yeah we all want that yeah it's easy yeah i mean also
[1466.48] Jack: do you want another question i saw a flight test they set their maximum throttle to 2000 yeah you
[1471.76] Bradders: should always set it to 1000 2000 on bl heli you reckon obviously if the escs are cool but
[1480.16] Bradders: what do you feel that josh 1000 2000 yeah i feel like the number one thing you got to make sure
[1485.52] Joshua Bardwell: is that your escs and your flight controller are in agreement and i do that by doing stick
[1490.56] Joshua Bardwell: calibration but you can also manually enter the numbers as long as they're in agreement the only
[1495.04] Joshua Bardwell: thing you're changing is the resolution of the channel yeah the difference in resolution between
[1499.2] Joshua Bardwell: you know whatever 1050 1850 and 1000 2000 is minimal so it's it doesn't i like round numbers
[1505.52] Jack: so i go 1000 2000 but it doesn't really matter because we i me and dan are into this sort of
[1512.56] Jack: habit where we we set our minimum throttle to 10 to 15 above when the motor starts spinning
[1521.76] Jack: and apparently it's got nothing to do with that it's to do with the parameters of the bl heli the
[1527.36] Joshua Bardwell: well but don't don't confuse so and this is a topic i could talk about a lot i made a like a
[1534.0] Jack: half hour long video it's gonna kick off that's it i've done it but don't i won't i won't no come
[1539.2] Joshua Bardwell: on please there's the input side and the output side of the flight controller and the parameters
[1545.76] Joshua Bardwell: the parameters in clean flight are really poorly camed because it's not it's really easy to confuse
[1550.32] Joshua Bardwell: them but on the input side you have um you have uh this is where he's quickly opening configurator
[1558.56] Joshua Bardwell: to have a look yeah i was saying you know on the output sides you have min command min throttle
[1563.12] Joshua Bardwell: and max throttle and that's from the flight controller to the escs and then on the input
[1567.44] Joshua Bardwell: side you have your channel end points and your min check and your max check and those things
[1572.88] Joshua Bardwell: often get mixed up and confused and they're they're actually completely independent of each other
[1577.44] Joshua Bardwell: so what you said is correct i think um find the point where your motors begin to spin and add 10
[1583.36] Joshua Bardwell: to 15 to that just to give a little bit of head room and that's where min throttle should be
[1587.44] Jack: i i agree yeah because i i found like the best because like i i set up um i set up someone uh
[1595.6] Jack: with a dodo and um with the with a pass through arm switch and it armed and the takeoff was really
[1604.4] Jack: not smooth until i made that modification of adding five uh you know five or ten to yeah so
[1612.0] Jack: that it would take off really horribly who's that on the mic i don't know who that is uh so josh do
[1619.52] Bradders: you check as you run 1000 to 2000 are you using min check about 120 or are you keeping default
[1628.0] Joshua Bardwell: so i i like to have min check so again uh don't don't mix up uh min min command and max throttle
[1634.8] Joshua Bardwell: which are the output side on the input side your channel end points are default to 1000 2000 and
[1641.2] Joshua Bardwell: you can change that using the rx range command but the default i like to have min check as low as
[1646.24] Joshua Bardwell: possible because uh there's dead band at the bottom of the throttle stick so the higher min
[1651.2] Joshua Bardwell: check the default min check is like 1100 i think and that's that's the cover just ridiculously
[1657.76] Bradders: well basically it's 11 percent of your it's 11 percent of your foot exactly you don't want that
[1662.4] Jack: much dead band so i think i run something like 1025 okay um yeah back to reliable flight controllers
[1669.28] Jack: i'm thinking about there's a lot of clones out there especially for the dodo and i've probably
[1674.0] Jack: got one yeah we're we're struggling with the the you know like voltage the onboard voltage um you
[1681.44] Jack: know you plug in uh vbat to it and then it's going to give you five volts that's not happening
[1687.44] Jack: some of them the throttle pass through isn't happening uh dominic has released a new uh sp3
[1696.0] Jack: mini um lumineers lumineers new board i don't know much about that i don't think i think it's
[1704.08] Bradders: doing pass through i don't think it's doing pass through i'm not 100 confirmed but if the lux
[1707.6] Bradders: board's not having passed through then to be honest that is a really again that's a really
[1712.8] Bradders: bad mood and again that chip i think josh they put the 6500 in it haven't they it does have
[1718.96] Joshua Bardwell: the 6500 yeah which is noisy so it's it's still debatable whether that is actually going to have
[1724.48] Joshua Bardwell: a negative flight performance effect i actually have a lux uh that i'm putting in this latest
[1729.36] Joshua Bardwell: build that i'm doing that i'm going to be doing some testing on and seeing you know what i can
[1733.28] Bradders: come up with um is that pause free do you know what's that is that pause free do you know it
[1738.96] Joshua Bardwell: does have so it uses the virtual comport the vcp and so it will do pass through but you need to
[1744.56] Joshua Bardwell: use an ftdi adapter hooked up to a uart i think it's uart one by default yeah and so most of us
[1751.68] Joshua Bardwell: wouldn't call that pass through because we expect pass through through the usb port which is i think
[1756.48] Joshua Bardwell: but i think they're working on that in software right now that's a software problem not a hardware
[1760.32] Joshua Bardwell: problem and so we could see it solved in a future version of clean flight or blo heli or a beta
[1766.0] Jack: flight yeah that is that is a useful thing to know as well if you rip off your usb header you can
[1773.76] Jack: with the tx rx 5 volt and ground you can still connect to your nase board using an ftdi adapter
[1781.2] Jack: as well through because you know the uart is shared so it's that's quite handy um it sucks
[1789.76] Jack: though for when you uh when you've got the osd running and you plug in try and connect
[1796.64] Jack: that's a total pain in the butt but um any yeah what else are you looking forward to uh unlike
[1803.52] Jack: working on new technology wise because you know other than the the luck float board
[1810.0] Joshua Bardwell: yeah uh another thing i have coming up is um i have some so i've always been curious about these
[1817.84] Joshua Bardwell: new high voltage lipos right uh instead of going to um graphene ones yeah no no not the actually
[1825.68] Joshua Bardwell: not the graphene ones that's different i actually just learned about those and they're they seem
[1830.32] Joshua Bardwell: exciting too i'm talking about the lipos that instead of charging to 4.2 volts per cell they
[1834.96] Jack: charge to 4.35 volts per cell oh what the weird overcharged ones yeah yeah battery charger for
[1842.32] Jack: yeah man i've forgotten about them i was like new battery charger what am i gonna do then for us
[1849.84] Joshua Bardwell: well i mean so you have another uh 1.5 volts per cell so you know multiply that by four for a four
[1856.32] Joshua Bardwell: cell and then so if you think about uh the the the wattage of the battery the watt hours
[1862.56] Joshua Bardwell: you know watts equals amps times volts so if you have more volts you have more watts
[1866.72] Jack: maths on let's drone out man yeah what and then also you have your motor's kv rating right so you
[1872.48] Joshua Bardwell: have a 2000 kv motor and that means it's 2000 rpms per volt applied which means that if you
[1878.72] Joshua Bardwell: apply another you know 4.5 volts per cell you're getting more rpms out of your motor so basically
[1885.84] Joshua Bardwell: you have more power higher voltage less sag that's the promise um and i have some of those
[1890.4] Joshua Bardwell: coming in the mail i'm going to do a side-by-side test of a uh of a nanotech uh 1800 65c which by
[1898.64] Joshua Bardwell: all rights should be a good battery i mean and a uh and one of the hobby king bolt uh high voltage
[1904.8] Joshua Bardwell: 1800s and i mean the high volt one should kick the other one's butt but we'll see by how much
[1909.84] Bradders: what are you doing josh you test on the high kv did you say sorry well the high voltage one should
[1915.76] Joshua Bardwell: make more kvs because it's higher voltage okay cool and i'm just going to put them on i mean i
[1921.36] Joshua Bardwell: don't do a lot of bench testing like uh like quad mcfly does you know um or engineer x i mean i do a
[1928.24] Joshua Bardwell: little bit but i'm probably just going to stick them on a copter and fly them around and maybe
[1932.48] Joshua Bardwell: like do some timed laps or something i mean the difference hopefully the difference will be really
[1936.72] Joshua Bardwell: clear if it's not if it's like tenths of a second well then don't bother yeah yeah just just look
[1943.44] Jack: you know just find one way of like keeping the consistency you know and then yeah for sure yeah
[1949.76] Jack: for sure that's the only thing because like a lot of reviews are like well it feels different and
[1955.04] Joshua Bardwell: it's like yeah no i try to i try and keep my stuff sort of technical and quantitative nobody wants
[1961.04] Joshua Bardwell: to see me go you know oh yeah got a lot of punch feels good you know anybody can do that i'm not
[1965.84] Joshua Bardwell: you know um but um i try so i'll try and keep it like scientific it's just probably not going to
[1970.72] Joshua Bardwell: be like bench testing stuff because i probably i just not sit up for that and i'd probably just
[1974.96] Joshua Bardwell: rather stick it on a copter and go out and fly but i mean things like um you know flight time
[1980.08] Joshua Bardwell: and i think i'm i have a couple of laps i do around my place that i'm pretty good at so i
[1984.96] Joshua Bardwell: think if i should be able to do you know like the like the um like the top gear guys you know i'll
[1989.92] Joshua Bardwell: just take it out to the track and do laps and see what's faster i'm never right against the train
[1995.36] Jack: yeah yeah or a um euro fire that's our answer to everything that'd be cool that would be wicked
[2002.16] Jack: um and then punch a colleague in the face of course oh um by the way tone got a nice little
[2007.2] Jack: who half all you just to excite everyone um uh a friend of mine goes um to go kart track and stuff
[2016.56] Jack: and uh apparently these guys are really interested in letting a few of us like rip around there
[2020.96] Tony: awesome yeah i knew that there was some oil on your face that sounds like a good day or night
[2025.76] Jack: or even whatever that sounds really fun so poor tony's been sat here for the last 20 minutes
[2030.48] Jack: looking slightly confused and we've been like trying to draw diagrams of like kv how fast it's
[2035.6] Jack: spitting i know what that is you idiot sorry can't help but wind him up um do you do you miss
[2043.6] Jack: multi-whee old or you know do you like multi-whee rewrite or you're totally flux man that's like
[2050.72] Joshua Bardwell: i fly i fly rewrite um i started flying i flew lux for a little bit and i then i switched over
[2056.96] Joshua Bardwell: to rewrite because the big thing with rewrite is that if you like if you're using mwsd to adjust
[2062.88] Joshua Bardwell: your PIDs with rewrite you have more resolution because it's um like on lux float if your PID is
[2069.04] Joshua Bardwell: 1.2 it's going to show up as 12 in the OSD and so you can go from 12 to 13 but lux float actually
[2076.0] Joshua Bardwell: uses a lot more decimal points than that so you don't have a lot of granularity in your tuning
[2080.64] Joshua Bardwell: so that was mostly just laziness that i started doing rewrite instead
[2084.56] Joshua Bardwell: but then it turns out according to boris that as of today in beta flight like under the hood lux
[2090.88] Joshua Bardwell: float and rewrite are like identical the only difference is that the numbers scale a little
[2095.28] Joshua Bardwell: differently but in terms of flight performance they should be the same so i just stick with
[2099.84] Bradders: rewrite uh lux float everyone should use rewrites i've never not used rewrite i i love me me and j
[2108.32] Jack: we're like multi-wee guys man i'd have flipped 1.5 man like i started on one of those with my
[2114.96] Jack: electro hub at a multi-wee yeah i went over to there but not that long but you know i really did
[2123.12] Jack: like the multi-wee the way it flew was like nothing else you know it was just like you realize
[2128.08] Jack: how slow kk was you know like you almost were mailing commands to it i'm waiting for it to like
[2135.6] Jae: squawk it back to you like so yeah they were clunky but i mean i never looked back i used
[2142.24] Jae: multi-wee for a good year or so really i loved it even setting gps up on it it was hit and miss
[2147.52] Jae: but it was a good board very good board i um and again you had the phone issues though so
[2154.08] Jack: yeah there was uh yeah we we just need like reliable boards and everything to get working
[2159.2] Jack: out the woodwork we're in a really weird time right about now but um joe you'll be happy i've
[2164.16] Jack: got managed to get a old u block six working with um a nays fall on a funny enough electro
[2173.84] Jack: electro hub in a dead cat configuration so if you with a dead cat yeah yeah so dead cat layout
[2182.4] Jack: if anyone wants to look that up on old flight test but yeah it's not a real dead cat by the way
[2188.08] Jack: yeah do you know why they don't like that touch guy yeah yeah yeah is that why they call it a dead
[2193.84] Joshua Bardwell: cat yeah that guy stuffed his cat into a quadcopter and that was the first time i did that layout
[2198.88] Jae: yeah allville yep he wanted to fly with the birds he kept it the kind of freezer for a year though
[2205.68] Jack: before he decided what to do with it probably yeah some people and that ran on a kk as well
[2212.96] Jack: and the um dc 720 motors you know like the old school that's the thing to talk about what board
[2220.24] Adam Juniper: it used not the fact that the man decided he wanted to have a floating cat well you know
[2225.52] Jack: yeah that's for the mainstream media we're on let's go now you know what are you see sort of
[2229.92] Jack: in that cat what was what was powering that dead cat you're right it was the first thing i wondered
[2234.88] Jack: yeah i want to know everything did you see the ostrich that he did indoor by the way no no i've
[2242.0] Jae: seen the little tricot to wrap well they had both of them at a tv show pilot up in manchester and i've
[2249.44] Jae: seen all the flesh fly but this this uh ostrich where their head actually gets attached on it's
[2254.4] Jae: a surreal experience to see it getting put together before it flies but it's making ostrich fly so
[2261.12] Tony: yeah that's an achievement jay i'm not talking to you anymore jay i'm just saying what it's supposed
[2268.72] Jae: to be on my side i don't agree with it necessarily if it died of the natural causes then it's
[2275.92] Tony: well when you go we're gonna fly you around then jay if that's all right
[2281.44] Jack: no if i go with natural causes yeah just just to piss fabby off i'm gonna go down this route
[2289.04] Joshua Bardwell: tricopter josh you haven't flown one i have never flown a tricopter and i will tell you and i feel
[2296.08] Joshua Bardwell: bad about this because uh i i got into rc multi rotors about the same time david vingestal
[2303.44] Joshua Bardwell: was on flight test and i i have a real soft spot for david vingestal but he flies tricopters and
[2309.36] Joshua Bardwell: he loves tricopters and i saw one of his videos he released which was like a highlight reel and the
[2315.36] Joshua Bardwell: tricopter looked like it was flying terrible it had yaw wobbles all over the place like the servo
[2321.28] Joshua Bardwell: was hunting and i just thought in this day and age i mean it used to be if you wanted yaw performance
[2325.92] Joshua Bardwell: you got a tricopter because we didn't have good escs with good braking and and all that stuff
[2330.48] Joshua Bardwell: and quadcopter yaw performance was terrible and in this day and age when we had such good yaw
[2335.76] Joshua Bardwell: performance out of quadcopters i just don't know why anybody would fly a tri unless you just love
[2340.08] Joshua Bardwell: it so i feel bad i'm gonna talk to those about your tri well well i'm gonna i've done it i need
[2345.92] Jack: i need to know was it the norway one where he's like flipping down a mountain stuff the school
[2352.08] Joshua Bardwell: yes that was i think that was the one yeah i'm watching it going i want to love this
[2355.92] Joshua Bardwell: because i like david i think he's cool but the flight performance just looked terrible right so
[2360.8] Jack: everyone chill the f*** out right that was the mini tricopter when it first come out and as you
[2367.04] Jack: know tricopter code is never is always slower than quadcopters because everyone's running quads
[2376.0] Jack: in the 250s and he was basically the first yeah the first person to make a mini tricopter
[2383.36] Jack: so now we've got something called uh well we've got a fork in the clean flight it uses boris
[2390.4] Jack: bee's filters and hex but it's called tri float and we're doing little things like running our
[2399.28] Jack: servers servos on higher voltage who's that noise adam is that you what yeah noise
[2407.44] Adam Juniper: yeah it is adam eating crisps or something adam doesn't have any crisps adam would really like
[2411.92] Jae: some crisps is adam rubbaging in the back yeah moving around headphones or something anyway
[2419.76] Joshua Bardwell: you've really upset you've upset um i'm so sorry that you're telling me that one of the people on
[2426.48] Joshua Bardwell: on this broadcast actually was involved in that exact video that i insulted not quite but no
[2433.44] Joshua Bardwell: but jack loves tric
[2456.16] Jack: it you know and everyone stepped up uh loop like lucra um worked on the code really hard and like
[2465.36] Jack: everyone in the community agreed that you know release it and we'll all kind of work on it
[2470.4] Jack: submit our black boxes and it now we're now on tri flight 4.0 but i'm gonna it's really good
[2476.48] Joshua Bardwell: i'm gonna throw it back to you then so here's my question back to you is
[2480.4] Joshua Bardwell: since y'all performance is so good on many quad copters and multi rotors now yeah why
[2486.56] Joshua Bardwell: why fly a tricopter sell me on a tricopter what's awesome about them um what what's awesome about
[2492.96] Jack: tricopters you really like replacing servos no i'm sorry well no i mean now we have got like
[2499.44] Jack: you know protected servos now that like give out on a crash i can't remember what what they're
[2505.12] Jack: called now um it's yeah it is just the way they fly it's they're more sort of like a plane would
[2512.24] Tony: you say i'd probably like them wouldn't i yeah because i like that glidey swooshy yeah they're
[2517.36] Jack: quite they're quite swoopy swooshy and that and i was the thing was i had that i was on trifly
[2524.48] Jack: version two and i was at the fossil event with you and everyone was saying wow it flies really
[2529.52] Jack: smooth but i still felt that sort of like finding that sort of like wiggling back and
[2535.92] Jack: forth the tricopter through the fbv but um you know obviously they're lighter you you've only got
[2542.08] Jack: three motors three asc three ec's um you know uh you've got something called like tail tune now
[2550.0] Jack: and they flip kind of differently they act really differently and they're not sort of
[2555.44] Jack: they're not on this sort of like pivoty kind of plate yeah why you can really sort of like
[2560.88] Jack: bank them in and stuff now you have to let me have a go jack yeah please do like i've i've
[2566.08] Jack: i've got it i've got it sorted now it's just it is just different and when you get them going
[2572.32] Jack: and tilting forward it's kind of it's scary because you they're harder to stop okay they
[2580.64] Jack: just they just go they're like they're a bit worried about that because you yeah yeah it's it's
[2586.0] Jack: a commitment like you know you kind of commit to fly with the tricopter you know and i don't know
[2591.84] Adam Juniper: it's just like all the adrenaline of getting behind a crashing um aircraft yeah it's just
[2596.88] Jack: yeah it's on a rocket really it really is like you know it's not you know it's different i think the
[2603.92] Jae: orientation of a tricopter line of sight is pretty good compared to a quad because it's
[2608.08] Jae: easier to lose orientation of a quad with no lights than it is a tricopter so i think that's
[2612.88] Jae: the other aspect you're talking about one line of sight yeah yeah i know just uh yeah if i was you
[2619.52] Jae: know that's the only advantage i've ever seen of a tricopter over a quad and i've i've never flown
[2624.0] Jae: tricopter in my life but i've always preferred quad myself but people like flying line of
[2629.12] Tony: psychs off i think it's yeah it's quite enjoyable is it yeah i can't i can't do it either one of
[2635.76] Joshua Bardwell: those two i mean that's me josh i can i can hover and i can fly figure eights and very very basic
[2642.48] Joshua Bardwell: my problem is that if it gets far enough away i just lose i cannot keep orientation
[2648.16] Joshua Bardwell: and i've tried colored props and i've tried lights and i've tried all kinds of things
[2652.08] Tony: i just can't do it it's something i can't do it and i don't find it enjoyable um well there's that
[2657.44] Jack: yeah i mean for mini quads no don't bother with line of sight you can't tell they're just
[2662.8] Jack: a little dot in the horizon you know they're not designed you know i can only just do it from a
[2669.04] Adam Juniper: phantom yeah and you see you need to keep even the really big probe gigs uh you know you know
[2676.88] Adam Juniper: the ones like you say the phantom or the inspire lights they're impossible to see as soon as you
[2681.92] Jack: get what 200 meters it's crazy not that you should be flying any further any further in this
[2687.84] Jack: country um and also it what helps is staying with the forward momentum there's a guy he's got a video
[2696.16] Jack: on youtube i think i posted it in the useful and it's basically you keep moving forward and then
[2703.52] Jack: like your and roll to one side and then as soon as it starts moving on that way then you know what
[2710.0] Jack: direction it is so you kind of like bank off you just pick a direction bank off see what it does
[2718.08] Jack: and then you know what it is but the sort of it's the forward momentum it's like stick memory
[2724.48] Jack: yeah you just keep going forward and then you know that's the direction that forward is because
[2730.72] Jack: that's you know you you stay on that all the time until it's going further away yeah right
[2738.32] Jack: well then you bring it round to you you know you just remember that you're i always had the
[2743.36] Joshua Bardwell: problem where if it was far enough away i would think i would not be able to tell if it was pitched
[2748.56] Joshua Bardwell: towards me or away from me and waiting for it to get smaller or larger takes a bit of time it's
[2754.16] Joshua Bardwell: terrifying isn't it and then and then i'd be like i think it's pitched away so i'd pitch it towards
[2758.96] Joshua Bardwell: me but then it would turn out that it was pitched towards me so now it's coming faster yeah and then
[2763.12] Jack: i would just get completely disoriented and crash um yeah my friend adams bought me a nice little
[2770.16] Jack: present for um you know like when you fly an fpv and you kind of like lose where you are
[2775.68] Jack: to get back home he's bought me like a fluorescent jacket so i've got to like write the words like
[2780.24] Jack: return to home jacket on the back of it which is quite funny so you just see like this fluorescent
[2786.32] Tony: jacket um can i um just butt in here and yeah carry on and i just wanted to say the event horizon
[2795.28] Tony: is starting to go on sale now um it was in the drone magazine this week i think it's this month's
[2802.88] Tony: one get your orders in get your orders in to fossilstuff.com the your issue that was
[2810.64] Tony: wasn't it was a dodgy flight controller which i got so there is no your issue we found that out
[2817.84] Tony: when we went to foster ball yeah about a couple of weeks ago maybe maybe martin can hook joshua up
[2824.16] Jack: with uh transatlantic um uh event yeah event horizon event horizon he can do like a little
[2831.68] Jack: yo this is how you tune something like this that'd be good good for everyone but i think the tune
[2837.04] Tony: johnny got on his i mean he was flying fantastic that day so don't upset him by copying his pids
[2843.2] Tony: you'll make him mad if you'll never want to come on i'm just saying that i had the exact same setup
[2851.28] Joshua Bardwell: if they have the exact same setup then you can copy their pids and i won't get mad
[2855.52] Joshua Bardwell: like the like the vortex pro and the protune well that makes sense what's the point it's
[2859.76] Jack: got some profiles for copying pids
[2864.72] Jack: i want to fly like boris i'll select boris yeah
[2869.36] Adam Juniper: instantly make you as good as whoever you're copying them from well or as bad could be in there
[2876.16] Jack: um yeah so josh definitely check out the i force 2 guy because he's even he's even made like
[2884.8] Jack: a little motor mixing program where you can tap the arrow keys and then it'll insert motor one
[2895.12] Jack: and then tap it whether it goes clockwise or anti-clockwise and then all you do is measure
[2899.76] Jack: from your center point of your craft so you can make any configuration it doesn't work for
[2904.72] Jack: tricopters but you know look at you i'm surrounded by bigots do you do you want to hear something
[2911.28] Joshua Bardwell: else controversial yep uh i thought you would so i am not uh i don't think that motor mixing is
[2917.92] Joshua Bardwell: necessary or useful for flat quads yeah as long as your motors are rectangular yeah don't bother
[2923.92] Joshua Bardwell: with mixing if you have um if you have like a dead cat style or especially if you have an atail
[2929.36] Joshua Bardwell: or a v tail or something weird like that then you need motor mixing yeah a lot of people uh with
[2934.32] Joshua Bardwell: with just you know they just were flying an h quad and they want to do a motor mix point and i
[2939.6] Jack: it's still an x yeah but don't you find a little bit of a difference in between your and pitch
[2946.08] Joshua Bardwell: maybe well yeah but that has to do with the weight distribution not the motor spacing mr cg it's
[2953.04] Joshua Bardwell: because the and i to give credit i would like to give credit to the person who gave me this idea
[2957.68] Joshua Bardwell: but i i think maybe it was quad mcfly i'm going to attribute the wrong person and i apologize
[2962.88] Joshua Bardwell: i didn't come up with this idea i think it was quad mcfly though he said i've ran all the math
[2967.2] Joshua Bardwell: and it turns out that the further the motor is from the cg the longer the lever arm so this idea
[2973.52] Joshua Bardwell: that you need more force when a motor is further away is negated by the fact that the lever arm is
[2978.72] Joshua Bardwell: longer yeah and it all it all exactly cancels out pretty much and so what you're really doing when
[2983.44] Joshua Bardwell: you change those pits or the mixer rather is you're adjusting you're compensating for the
[2987.92] Joshua Bardwell: the weight distribution it just coincidentally so happens that most of these copters that you
[2993.04] Joshua Bardwell: it works out the same but in fact i i think you should just leave your leave use the quad x mixer
[2998.72] Joshua Bardwell: and then just adjust your pits and your your pitch may be higher than your roll and that's fine just
[3003.28] Joshua Bardwell: figure it out and don't mess with the mixer that makes a lot of sense oh look two two tellings off
[3009.2] Jack: in one episode this is i think everyone will want you back just put it be in my place oh if i wasn't
[3016.56] Joshua Bardwell: a tricopter bigot yeah that's it yeah you're right i'm gonna get that on a t-shirt tricopter
[3021.6] Joshua Bardwell: bigot yeah that's a picture of a tricopter with a big slash through it yeah that's it yeah no i'll
[3026.72] Jack: convert you man honestly i look forward to it i'd love to fly yeah do you want me to send you a
[3032.16] Joshua Bardwell: servo because i will that's all it will take i do own servos i used to fly fixed wing i say used to
[3038.64] Joshua Bardwell: i mean technically i still own fixed wings i just never fly them because i'm always yeah traitor
[3043.44] Tony: boy jack's gonna start flying fixed wings well yeah i'm gonna make a wing with always a dan
[3048.72] Tony: yeah me and dan bromance wing mance right shall we wrap up so can i just say another event horizon
[3055.92] Tony: thing the first 20 are going to come with flight controllers and cams so if you want to order now
[3062.88] Tony: do it because you get them two bits free for the first 20 okay we've all rushed to order them
[3068.72] Jack: that's why it's all gone silent all right thank you for tuning in to let drone out uh i've been
[3073.6] Jack: joined by in my far corner stone star one next to him that is insightful little nuggets in and there
[3080.88] Jack: uh on the interwebs uh the happy go lucky sprighty well everyone knows come on chip
[3090.16] Jack: ah okay yeah yeah and uh mr i write books the guide to absolutely everything thank you
[3097.28] Adam Juniper: adam um juniper and i'm assuming with me my next book is um in amazon now by the way plugging stuff
[3106.64] Jack: do it do it man and i'm the tricopter fag jack right until i fly i love you david said it
[3114.24] Jack: tricopters forever let's try it out and thanks joff yeah thank you guys for having me yep thanks
[3121.92] Jack: no worries will you be back did you have fun thank you will you be back did you have fun oh
[3127.76] Joshua Bardwell: yeah oh yeah yeah you know i love to talk uh my wife loves that i have this channel now so i
[3133.04] Joshua Bardwell: can talk to all you guys on the internet instead of boring her so yeah i think you've made some
[3139.28] Jack: friends though definitely the chat the chat's love loving you great show i've learned so much
[3145.36] Jack: yep loads of stuff man so you're very welcome back i want you coming back crawling back being
[3150.72] Jack: like i'm sorry about tricopters i am converted so if you want to come back get some tricopter
[3157.6] Jack: action thank you you've been listening to let strone out keep flying take care thanks guys telemetry last