=== Let's Drone Out — Episode 33 ===
Title: Episode 33 - Chris White of embedded.fm
Recorded: 2016-04-14
Hosts: Andrew "Frank" Hyams, Adam Juniper, Jae "Chipko", Jack "Brightontillifly" Nash
Guest(s): Anaseed, Chris White
Total audience: 2,065
Platforms: SoundCloud (http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/feeds.soundcloud.com/stream/262684979-letsdroneout-episode-33-chris-white-of-embeddedfm.mp3)
====================================

LDO chat to an embedded engineer discussing his adventures in and out of R/C, from autonomous data acquisition and telemetry to slingshots and A&E...

[0.21] (Editor): Don't forget, this podcast is sponsored by Radio C, number one for all your drone related
[8.01] (Editor): needs. Pay them a visit at RadioC.co.uk and use the promo code LEO for 5% off your order
[14.21] Jack: and free shipping on orders over £80. Hello, and welcome to Let Drone Out. How are you
[19.51] Jack: guys doing? And we are joined by actually, Frank, can you do the intro? Yeah, this week
[28.63] Frank: we've got on Chris White, who's an embedded engineer, so deals with all the lovely chips
[33.71] Frank: and boards and interfaces day to day, but also works on the embedded FM podcast, which
[41.23] Frank: is very, you know, very interesting, as far as I'm concerned. And there's a lot of interesting
[46.49] Frank: people that make as educators, artists and engineers talking about those chips and boards
[51.59] Frank: and interfaces. And Chris recently was talking on the podcast about how he recently got back
[58.55] Frank: into the RC hobby. So I thought it would be interesting to hear how it's been for him,
[64.95] Frank: you know, with that sort of background coming in and seeing how we're abusing the chips
[68.67] Frank: and boards and interfaces in what we're doing. So carefully designed. Yeah. And who else
[73.59] Frank: is joined? We've also got Jay. Hello, everyone. Yeah. And Adam. Hello. I'm Frank, and we've
[81.27] Jack: got Jack. Hello. Always got Jack. Thankfully, we've got Jack. And also, don't forget everyone,
[86.39] Jack: we are joined by our resident newbie. Ask lots of questions. We have someone very intelligent
[95.43] Frank: on with a very nice voice. So Chris, do you want to tell us a little bit about what you've
[107.95] Frank: been getting up to getting back into the hobby and what you've been doing recently? Yeah.
[113.87] Chris White: Well, first of all, hi from Southern Southern California.
[118.67] Chris White: I hate you already. But and I apologize for my funny accent.
[122.67] Jack: It sounds really good. You can tell you belong on the podcast. Definitely.
[127.63] Chris White: Yeah. So I'm actually not as much of a newbie to the hobby as as it might sound. But I've kind of
[133.95] Chris White: fallen in and out of it, maybe two or three times over the last few decades. And when I first
[140.35] Chris White: started with it, I was a young kid. And that was back when I knew probably guys probably don't
[145.47] Chris White: remember this. But you know, our planes, you could get planes that were on strings and they're gas
[151.07] Chris White: powered. Oh, yeah. Stand there spinning around until you got really sick, or until the gas ran
[155.79] Chris White: out. That was kind of my first experience with it. And I didn't really get into RC until my brother
[161.31] Chris White: did years later. And that was all gas powered, but I was too young to be allowed to fly gas.
[167.23] Chris White: Um, so I eventually got an electric plane and this was back. God had to be early 90s.
[173.23] Chris White: And electric planes were just not very good in the early 90s. Big, big battery, no power.
[181.87] Frank: So it was on like nickel metal hydride or NiCad or something. And then yeah, yeah, big brush
[186.99] Chris White: motors that did nothing maybe with a gearbox as well. Yeah. And like, you know, two meter wingspan
[192.11] Chris White: because you needed that much lift. So I crashed that pretty immediately and kind of fell out of
[197.15] Chris White: the hobby there. I got back really seriously into it, probably about 12 years ago, when electric was
[202.59] Chris White: starting to take off as kind of a more viable thing. And yeah, I got a couple planes and really
[210.11] Chris White: started enjoying it and kind of fell back out of it because I got into work and really haven't paid
[215.95] Chris White: any attention to it until late last year. Um, I started fooling around with cheap quadcopters.
[223.15] Chris White: And my brother eventually said he was going to get, you know, a racing quad and play around
[228.19] Chris White: with that. And I said, well, maybe I should dip my toe back into this hobby and see what's going
[231.79] Chris White: on. And I was just amazed at how much everything has changed. It's just ridiculous. It's kind of
[236.91] Chris White: like, uh, if you'd only seen a video game in the eighties, you know, space invaders or something
[241.15] Chris White: and then fallen asleep for 20 or 30 years and somebody shows you Call of Duty, it's kind of like
[246.83] Adam: what's happening. How is this all possible? Oh no, they took away the game play.
[253.55] Chris White: Yeah. Uh, so yeah, so I've been getting back into it flying fixed wing mostly. Um, and you know,
[260.27] Chris White: just, just getting really excited about all the stuff you can kind of do with it with, uh, you
[265.71] Chris White: know, the telemetry and the sensors and the FPV aspect, uh, it's all, it's all really exciting and
[271.23] Chris White: much more, you know, things exist that couldn't have existed even 10 years ago. And even then
[277.47] Chris White: they're affordable now. So it's, it's really exciting on one hand. Um, a bad couple of weeks
[285.79] Frank: with flying. So I haven't done much lately. What happened? Well, uh, is there a good crash
[292.35] Frank: story involved? I think is what Adam is asking. Yeah, it's a, it's a, it's a crash story and its
[299.31] Chris White: consequences. Uh, yeah, I, uh, uh, my main plane that I've been experimenting with is a Bixler
[304.99] Chris White: three from hobby King. Yep. And, uh, nice plane with a fair amount of, uh, fair amount of lift and
[311.87] Chris White: storage space for electronics. Uh, that's stuffed it full of all kinds of electronics and telemetry
[316.19] Chris White: things. Cause for some reason, I just love getting data back from remote objects. It's,
[321.55] Chris White: I don't do anything with it, but it's just seems so cool to me that I just keep cramming more stuff
[324.91] Chris White: in. Um, and this was the first time I was trying to fly at FPV and we have a local park here,
[330.59] Adam: which has a lot of trees. And I think I can say some of the faces of the story coming together.
[336.75] Chris White: Well, I got a little confused moving back and forth between the, the, the camera view and,
[341.55] Chris White: you know, line of sight and I just lost it for a second and wham. It was in top of a,
[347.07] Chris White: uh, about a 35, 35 foot tree. Um, yeah. So there was no way to get it.
[358.43] Chris White: Tried all sorts of things. And the upside is I ended up severely injuring myself attempting
[364.43] Chris White: to get it down. Ended up going to the emergency room and well, that's, that's pretty severe. I
[369.23] Frank: mean, I've, I've, I've ripped a hoodie before, but I've never sent myself, you know, to requiring
[374.83] Chris White: medical attention. Well, see, I went on the internet and somebody said the best way to do
[378.35] Chris White: this is to get a slingshot and fire a metal metal weight over, over the plane with some fishing line
[383.47] Chris White: and pull it down. I have zero experience with slingshots. And, uh, so I ended up firing it into
[389.47] Chris White: my thumb, which did quite a bit of damage. Um, yeah. So that, that took me out of it for
[398.75] Chris White: a couple of weeks. And then we went back to get it back about a week ago and try to,
[403.47] Chris White: try to all sorts of safer options. None of them worked. Uh, unfortunately my wife got in with
[408.19] Chris White: the trees and she ended up with poison oak. So she really appreciates the hobby. So tell me,
[417.23] Adam: you're going back now with a train chainsaw because you know, humanity has to beat nature.
[421.71] Chris White: The very strange, funny thing is the next day somebody showed up at my doorstep with my plane.
[428.75] Chris White: They had been trying to get it down. They got it down and I had my address and contact and
[432.91] Chris White: fall over it because the FAA wants you to. Yeah. And they just, and I was so flabbergasted that
[438.03] Chris White: somebody had got it down and brought it to my house and I didn't even know what to say to them.
[443.15] Adam: Did you find out? So drug registration, a good idea in the end.
[449.31] Chris White: Yeah. For that one case, although they didn't, they didn't use the database,
[452.43] (Editor): which apparently isn't working yet. Uh,
[457.39] Jae: plane recoveries, the dangerous businesses we've found out. Yeah. Did you find out how they got it
[462.75] Chris White: down? Did it just fall down in the end or? No, they, they had some, they had tried a bunch of
[468.27] Chris White: things which were similar to what we were trying. Uh, but I guess they ended up with a ladder and
[471.95] Chris White: some very long poles, which I wasn't, wasn't really willing to try. Were they disappointed
[476.11] Adam: when they found like a name addressed on it? Were they thinking? I don't know. I did wonder.
[482.59] Chris White: Maybe they just liked the challenge. Any idea? They wanted to know what it was. It's a kind of
[488.67] Adam: a big place to place for doing right. What once went wrong. Yeah. I like that sort of person.
[497.71] Frank: Getting down all kites and things as well. Yeah.
[502.43] Jae: This is another reason that Monty Rhodes are usually a better option because when they crash,
[505.71] Jae: it's easy to use to recover them. And well, and you can stop, right? That's the thing my brother
[511.07] Chris White: was telling me, you know, you get in trouble, you can just stop. But with fixed wing floats,
[516.27] Chris White: kind of like driving down the freeway. It's not like you can change your mind. If you get
[520.11] Frank: it depends whether you have more trust in the pilot or the equipment. Because, you know, if,
[524.83] Frank: if a multirator, the equipment starts failing, then it's, it's very failed. No glide slope.
[532.11] Frank: Yeah, exactly. That, that old thing. Whereas if a fixed wing, you know, if it starts going a bit
[538.59] Frank: wrong, it starts dying, then it'll at least glide down gradually, give you a bit of warning. But if
[545.39] Frank: you've got, you know, if it's the pilot error, then it's the other way around. Also, you know,
[552.59] Adam: you plow a multirator into a tree. And, you know, lose a prop, it will pull it will fall down with
[558.51] Adam: some speed. And, you know, the second impact might be the one that gets rid of it. Yeah.
[564.11] Frank: Last Saturday, I saw a Mitsuko go completely ballistic. It, I think it probably,
[577.63] Frank: probably an issue with the item. It did too many flips in a second. And it just kept flipping in
[584.51] Frank: infinite roll rate, pretty much by the looks of it. And it went about 100 miles an hour into the
[590.51] Frank: ground in the next field across next to a family having a picnic, which is a bit awkward. But yeah,
[596.83] Frank: it still just came away with a broken prop, which is, you know, that's nice when, when you can trust
[603.47] Frank: that you're only going to walk over to, well, unless you have a fire, but you know, if everything's
[609.55] Frank: not on fire, then you can just go over there and just change a prop and it'll be flying again. I
[615.23] Adam: was thinking more of the larger commercial ones, though, which have shells and what have you.
[620.43] Jae: They get smashed up. They do. So, Chris, I actually, ironically, got into the tail end of the gas
[628.19] Jae: engine, you know, combustion engine, sort of when I got into the planes, because I was
[632.43] Jae: flying some electric planes and I liked it, but I, you know, I had to recharge my expensive
[636.43] Jae: batteries, which I had fuel back in about eight years ago or so. And I'd always have to charge
[643.71] Jae: the batteries up before I went flying. So I thought, well, at least with the gas or, you know,
[647.95] Jae: fuel, I can just reload and put it back up in the air. I still have that plane not finished. And
[652.67] Jae: they're now considering do I make it electric just to continue on and actually use it in about
[658.83] Jae: four years. Maybe I've built crazy, isn't it? And essentially now that it's catching up and
[666.43] Jae: with the batteries and the efficiency of all the setups with the electric is the way forward.
[671.95] Jae: But yeah, also taking that further, I think we can do a lot more with what we put the payload
[676.59] Jae: and whatever we put on to do whatever we want, sort of data acquisition stuff that we're saying,
[681.23] Jae: getting the data back of whatever you do with it. So it's interesting how it's got to now,
[686.35] Frank: where do you see the system is going? I was wondering also, do you have any goals for your
[690.91] Frank: own projects? Is there anything particular that you're working on? I mean, there's obviously FPV
[697.87] Frank: just to have a look around and experience flying, but do you have any projects that you've got in
[702.83] Chris White: mind? Well, it's kind of funny. I do, but most of them are probably going to be illegal.
[709.87] Chris White: It's artistic. Just call it artistic.
[716.51] Chris White: My original excitement about the hobby was from some very unrealistic expectations I had as a kid
[721.79] Chris White: where I wanted to make a plane that could fly itself and then just come back to me and give me
[728.03] Chris White: information about where it went without me interacting with it. So the whole autonomy
[731.63] Chris White: part of it was really exciting to me as a kid, but it was totally impractical and now it's not.
[738.51] Chris White: That part of it is really cool to me and working from the ground up and kind of,
[744.11] Chris White: and I know it's kind of ridiculous to do this because you can just buy the parts, but
[749.23] Chris White: working from the ground up to try to replicate a flight controller,
[753.87] Chris White: some of the telemetry sensors, adding my own sensors for various things that they aren't selling
[758.59] Chris White: necessarily. That's kind of interesting to me and I would love to make an actually autonomous
[766.03] Chris White: vehicle, but it looks like that's not going to be something that you're allowed to do.
[771.87] Chris White: So I think, realistically, what I'm going to end up doing is kind of experimenting with micro
[778.51] Chris White: controllers and position gyros and accelerometer sensors and just try to learn about how flight
[788.75] Chris White: controllers work, whether for quadcopters or for fixed wing, because I think it's an interesting
[794.11] Chris White: area just intellectually, not necessarily to solve any big problem just for my own fun and education.
[803.47] Jae: But the whole idea of a computer vision that's now accessible and to tinker with some change,
[810.27] Jae: not necessarily autonomously, but to recognize and do things on a data acquisition front is quite
[816.67] Chris White: amazing. Yeah, and I think that's more interesting on the quadcopter kind of platform because you
[821.39] Chris White: could actually, you know, you could set up courses indoors or set up obstacles or particular
[828.59] Chris White: visually interesting waypoints and have it react to them. So there's some things there
[833.31] Chris White: that I'm kind of interested in looking at. See, I think we're quite lucky in the UK with
[838.51] Jae: that regulation and how it's imposed because it doesn't rule it out. And there's other countries
[842.91] Jae: in the world like Dubai where it's much more open to what you can do with these things. And I think
[847.07] Jae: America is risks stunting investment and, you know, R&D into different fields and if they impose
[854.51] Jae: restriction on them en masse, apart from the selected fee, I suppose. It's a shame that
[861.63] Jae: the regulations stunts not only the enjoyment, but perhaps the development of these sort of things.
[868.91] Adam: Regulation here is not super friendly to autonomous modes, that kind of thing.
[872.83] Adam: No, but it's still... It's generally accepted that people will go and learn how to do that in
[876.59] Adam: countries without much of a population. And then the rules might be reviewed later.
[881.39] Jae: But as long as it's in a visual line of sight, there's no problem where you can't...
[885.63] Adam: Yeah, but the interest... I thought truly the interesting things about autonomous
[889.55] Adam: are surely when it starts going well beyond visual line of sight.
[892.67] Frank: That is true. There is that. Like for the, you know, package delivering and all that sort of thing,
[898.35] Frank: or just data acquisition over a long term, you know, like a solar powered long distance,
[906.19] Frank: just weather drone. Yeah. That would have to be completely out of line of sight.
[912.75] Jae: Even with... Well, I mean, you get much further nowadays than you do on analog with some of the
[916.59] Adam: Lightbridge technology. Yeah, exactly. It's easy to see a long way out.
[923.15] Jae: Yeah, that was one of the milestones for a while.
[926.91] Adam: The rules are a little more, you know, they're not set by any one company.
[930.75] Adam: So the visual line of sight in the UK is set at 500 meters. That's just what the government say it
[936.27] Adam: is. And that's, you know, how it's staying for now. But I think, you know, people will achieve
[942.75] Adam: things by not entirely following the rules, but by showing that you can ignore them.
[948.11] Adam: And it won't happen in densely populated areas. At first, it'll be, you know,
[952.19] Adam: bands of people going out to experiment in deserts or whales or somewhere equally worthless.
[957.15] Frank: Well, I'm desperately trying to find the video of the guy who had, I think it was an APM fixed
[964.59] Frank: wing and he was flying it. So it was flying at him itself. But he was sitting in the car
[972.67] Frank: in the back of his car following it along. Oh, I didn't see that. And so he his aim was to get his
[980.59] Frank: plane to fly from one coast of America to the other autonomously. And I'm pretty sure he got
[988.43] Frank: pretty far just by it automatically landing and him replacing a battery every now and again.
[994.91] Adam: I'm just trying to find it. And it shows how silly the restrictive some of the regulation is
[1000.83] Adam: at the moment. Well, he definitely does a place to do that. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. Yeah.
[1008.11] Chris White: I think there's a place for some of it. It's definitely it's kind of funny because it's
[1012.11] Chris White: become definitely more of an issue with the existence of quadcopters. You know, prior to
[1018.03] Chris White: that, it was pretty much it's just pretty much do whatever you want in common sense to get in.
[1026.03] Adam: Yeah, I think that's the problem. And you do need regulation when you've got lots of videos.
[1030.03] Adam: It's just seems a bit unfair on people who aren't idiots. The other way to experiment is to get a
[1034.43] Adam: military contact with the drones, entirely autonomous ones that go off and find Russian
[1040.35] Adam: submarines and Chinese submarines. That's, have anyone seen any of the news about that?
[1045.39] Frank: I have seen that appearing in various news feeds, but I haven't actually read up about it.
[1052.35] Adam: Have you read into it? Yeah, well, the basic design is the moment the technology for finding
[1060.19] Adam: submarines is sonar boys, which, you know, just sit there until they die. Yeah. And that's basically
[1067.39] Adam: what's been happening since World War Two. And the idea with the drones was you just have a network
[1072.03] Adam: of these very small autonomous drones, which are basically quadcopters that can fly to a
[1077.47] Adam: location they're needed. They've got about one hour out of every 24 they can fly. And then they'll
[1084.03] Adam: just sit on the surface of the water, monitor it and report back until the, you know, the idea is
[1090.59] Adam: that they're so cheap that once the algae or whatever destroys them, another one will just fly
[1095.79] Adam: into its place. And that they reckon they can charge it to give it an hour's worth just from
[1101.47] Adam: a solar array on the top of a fairly small aircraft. That would be impressive. I've also seen
[1107.71] Frank: autonomous surface based drones, like as in little boats with sails that it sets itself.
[1115.15] Adam: I thought that would be until I saw this, you know, until I read about it. Yeah. Because to me,
[1121.55] Adam: I don't see what advantage to be able to take off as other than being very cool. Obviously,
[1127.95] Chris White: it's actually the other project I'm thinking of working on is a little floating floating thing,
[1133.31] Chris White: maybe no directional power whatsoever, just solar panels and an iridium radio so it can talk
[1138.67] Chris White: wherever and and just follow it along on GPS and take temperature readings or something. Yeah. But
[1144.67] Chris White: that's another thing where things have gotten so cheap that you can actually piece that together
[1148.43] Jack: for a few hundred dollars. What about those do we know satellites, you know, you get one of those
[1153.47] Jack: where the balloons send it up, you know, take readings, connect to what is it, 3G via your phone
[1161.63] Jack: and that. I've seen a couple of people working on that. Yeah. A lot of the problem now is not
[1167.07] Chris White: how do we do something? It's which one of these 15 million things you could do
[1171.23] Chris White: to choose. And I tend to get into trouble where I'm like, oh, I could do five different things. So I
[1176.11] Chris White: get 10% of the way in on five different things. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I think we're all like that.
[1180.83] Adam: Otherwise, we'd be millionaires. Millionaires are the people who pick the one thing,
[1185.23] Adam: you know, the commercially useful thing and work on it until I get something. I mean, I can see at
[1190.75] Frank: least four barely started projects from where I'm sitting right now. So yeah, I think that's the
[1197.95] Frank: way things go a lot. I'm doing really well on my main project, sleeping. Sleeping.
[1205.71] Jae: So Chris, you said, well, it was referred to earlier, you didn't necessarily say, but we've
[1209.39] Jae: been abusing our micro processes. And obviously, you come from an embedded background. So is it
[1215.47] Jae: frustrating to see how we've bundled along with these things and tried to integrate 32 bit,
[1221.07] Jae: etc., with all that variety of things? Or where have we been going wrong? Well, I don't think
[1226.91] Chris White: there's necessarily places going wrong. It looks very much like many other, I guess, subclasses of
[1236.27] Chris White: embedded electronics in the hobby spaces, where, you know, there's a few common types of micro
[1241.79] Chris White: controllers that are being used, and they're plugged together in the same ways. And the software
[1246.75] Chris White: isn't necessarily great, but it does the job. So I don't think I wouldn't consider it abuse
[1252.75] Chris White: necessarily, unless your goals are different. I mean, if you're, you know, if you're taking
[1257.55] Chris White: this stuff and you're putting into a safety critical system, I'm going to give you a funny
[1262.19] Chris White: look. But, you know, for hobby stuff, this is all perfect, as far as I'm concerned, because it's
[1267.63] Chris White: open enough that you can kind of figure out what's going on and learn, you know, like the FR sky
[1274.91] Chris White: serial protocol for all the telemetry has been been reverse engineered, or is open enough that
[1279.95] Chris White: you can, you know, add stuff to it. So I'm actually I know, I'm pretty happy with the state of things.
[1285.31] Chris White: And I think, I hope it continues to, I guess, what I'd like to see more is more kind of
[1292.59] Chris White: almost standardization of interconnects and things. And even more openness, because I think,
[1300.43] Chris White: I think some of the radio manufacturers still have a tendency to keep things close
[1304.75] Jae: to protect their old RC style sort of mentality. Yeah, I mean, that's, that's been a driving force
[1311.15] Jae: for some of the technology, I think, and some of the applications in that it has been so fragmented
[1316.51] Jae: across the board from the old KK boards and all the other different interfaces for playing all
[1320.83] Jae: bossy radar. And actually, choice now to my current to another, it's not so easy. And the equipment
[1328.03] Jae: usually gets redundant, like you say, because there's no standardization so easily to transfer
[1334.75] Frank: these things that evolve, a pile of old receivers and things. A lot of the people that I know, we
[1342.91] Frank: are only exposed to GitHub by when we need to download firmware. And we struggle through
[1351.31] Frank: and we work out how to do that bit. And that's about it. And I imagine, given your background,
[1359.47] Frank: you probably are able to go a bit deeper than that. I wonder if you have and actually have a
[1364.75] Frank: look at some of the code and see what's going on. I have, yeah. And is it any good?
[1372.91] Chris White: Some of it is, some of it is, is what you would expect from, you know, somebody doing it as their
[1380.59] Chris White: nighttime amusement. Yeah, I've looked at, I've looked at a couple of flight controllers because
[1388.59] Chris White: software, because that interests me from just a mathematical point of view.
[1394.27] Chris White: And, you know, it's okay. It's not what I would, a lot of it's not what I would consider professional
[1400.43] Chris White: software. But then again, it doesn't have to be. No. So, you know, I tend to give a lot of leeway
[1409.71] Chris White: to things that aren't meant for anything but entertainment. Yeah, I mean, I'm pretty impressed
[1416.51] Frank: by all the things that people are doing with their quads. Yeah, it works, right? I mean, this stuff
[1422.59] Frank: works. Going super fast, being able to do 12 flips a second or something and then come out of it and
[1429.47] Frank: carry on flying and whatever. And all the code for that has been written by a disparate group
[1439.47] Frank: of people around the world working in their free time on one project or even many projects
[1445.15] Frank: that have trickled down from one to the other from multi-weed to clean flight to beat of light
[1449.39] Frank: to whatever. And it still works most of the time, some of the time at least. Yeah, it's quite
[1456.67] Chris White: impressive. I think it's awesome. I think it's great. And, you know, I don't mean to disparage
[1460.43] Chris White: anything. You know, a lot of it probably is written by professional people in their spare time and
[1466.03] Chris White: it's professional quality. I haven't looked at everything, obviously. But yeah, I mean, the mere
[1471.87] Chris White: fact that it works so well is a testament to people are doing really good stuff. Yeah. Do you
[1477.63] Frank: think you will be? Because I personally, I like to be able to contribute back, but I've tried to
[1484.83] Frank: even just have a look and I haven't been able to work that out yet. And it's just been so much
[1488.99] Frank: effort to try and even look into the codes that I haven't even got as far as that. So I just got
[1496.19] Frank: put off of it. Do you think you're going to be looking into it and contributing back? Is that
[1501.39] Chris White: something you think you'll be doing? Well, you know, it's the easiest way to get started
[1506.27] Chris White: is if you try to just pick off an entire project on your own, it's it's a lot easier to give it up.
[1513.39] Chris White: So I think, yeah, I think I might I might do that. That's that's kind of the best way to get
[1518.19] Chris White: to get into a community is to start contributing small little features and patches and things.
[1522.99] Chris White: Yeah. So yeah, that does sound like a pretty good plan. But I don't I, you know, I don't know where
[1528.11] Frank: to start with that. Yeah, that's the thing. It's like I've I've done stuff with Arduino and Fortran
[1534.67] Frank: and MATLAB and stuff that I could probably work my way around the code. It's the being able to
[1541.87] Frank: deal with it on the like the community side of thing of how does that even work? I haven't even
[1547.79] Frank: worked out. I've tried briefly, but I haven't put a lot of effort into it, I have to admit. So maybe
[1552.99] Chris White: I'm making it a lot more difficult than it is. It sounds more difficult than it usually is.
[1558.11] Chris White: GitHub kind of enforces the mechanism for doing that, where you, you know, you put together,
[1564.11] Chris White: you have to learn how to use Git really well, which is kind of a horrible, horrible thing.
[1567.87] Chris White: But once you do, you kind of put your patch back in, you put it in a request, and then somebody
[1572.75] Chris White: looks at it and they can decide whether to incorporate it in the project or not. Or they
[1576.67] Chris White: can just come back to you and say, Yeah, could you fix these five things? And then we'll put them.
[1581.31] Adam: So so if you'd never use GitHub still, what's it for what to do?
[1585.87] Chris White: I have to explain source control. So there's a concept in software development called source
[1590.67] Chris White: control. It's a place where as you work on a project, you is exactly it's a place to track
[1596.11] Chris White: and store different versions of software as time goes on. So you can get back to earlier versions,
[1600.19] Chris White: you can see what's changed easily. And GitHub is just a place to do that on the internet as part
[1604.67] Chris White: of a big community. So you can put up your own. Yeah, no, I understand versioning. Okay, actually,
[1610.43] Adam: thank you, kids. Okay, sorry. I know I was trying to help the other listeners.
[1618.75] Adam: It's it's like the first choice, isn't it for everyone? Yeah, it is become the first choice.
[1623.39] Chris White: There used to be used to be SourceForge and a couple other places, but those have kind of become
[1629.15] Chris White: places in the city you don't want to go.
[1633.47] Adam: The dark areas now. Jack, I was reading that most of the best code on GitHub is
[1639.31] Adam: written by women these days. Jack is always interested in anything that is to do with women.
[1644.43] Adam: Yeah, yeah. Well, I like women. No, I know. I'm just, you know, keeping with the running joke,
[1649.23] Adam: Jack. No, that's fine. And of course, the convenient truth. Yeah. I suppose with systems
[1654.59] Jae: that are so open source, there's inherently a risk of security and hijacking, you know, like to be
[1660.75] Jae: able to, if it's that open source, then we reverse engineer all these things, there's going to be
[1665.07] Jae: more problems that present themselves going forward. If there is no standardization, or at
[1670.67] Jae: least some level of collaboration amongst variants of it all, I think. Do you mean like in the way
[1681.15] Frank: that clean flight and beta flight have a million different targets of all the different flight
[1687.15] Frank: controller boards that exist and all the different ways that they're slightly different? Like, for
[1691.71] Frank: example, even the Lumineer Lux, it was meant to be this close enough to the TBS Calibri that they
[1699.31] Frank: could share a target. And then it was like, oh, but there's this slight hardware difference
[1705.15] Frank: somewhere in the line that actually that doesn't work anymore. So they're two separate things now.
[1709.39] Frank: So now Boris, presumably Boris and Dominic Clifton now have to work on keeping those as well as all
[1717.87] Frank: the other ones that they've got to keep going, which is why things like the CT 3D kind of get
[1722.91] Jae: dropped occasionally. I was just going to say on like radio links and all sorts of stuff of it.
[1728.27] Frank: Well, I think there's things like S bus and stuff like that, they're pretty common across all things
[1734.91] Frank: aren't there? But what is it that I'm not thinking of? I was going to say that the security thing,
[1740.27] Adam: that the total mix of stuff, surely that makes it more secure, because it's much harder, you know,
[1745.07] Adam: like in the same way, there are fewer viruses for Macs, because they're obscure. And there are
[1749.79] Adam: lots of PC viruses, if you have lots of different things, then it's going to be much harder to hack
[1754.67] Jae: into somebody's drone that passes by. In the old, you know, you used to have to just swap crystals
[1759.31] Jae: and maybe someone could shoot a plane down or anything like that, you know, exactly. It was
[1763.15] Jae: easier to take control a long time ago. But the same problems exist where you have control over
[1768.03] Jae: these aircraft. And maybe it's sabotaging the race, maybe it's just malicious, maybe it's just
[1772.43] Jae: somebody having fun. There's no, you know, they're gonna get it's easy to disrupt and hard to take
[1779.15] Chris White: control, I think is my point. Well, indeed, in the still, yeah, to the larger point of open source
[1786.11] Chris White: and security, it goes both ways. I think open source advocates tend to tend to argue that the
[1794.19] Chris White: more high you have on something in the more open it is, the more secure it actually is, because
[1797.63] Chris White: you're not hiding things. And people find problems and fix them. And I tend to agree with that,
[1805.15] Chris White: especially with projects with larger amounts of contributors. On the radio side, that gets a
[1810.67] Chris White: little trickier, of course, because we're talking about physics and spread spectrum and, you know,
[1815.87] Chris White: protocols and things that if you want it to actually work, it has to be able to you can't,
[1821.63] Chris White: you can't hide the plane from the transmitter. So I've done that.
[1826.27] Adam: You've hidden the plane from the transmitter.
[1828.11] Frank: Oh, yeah, if you go behind a lot of trees, it doesn't work.
[1831.07] Adam: Objects. Yeah, it's very good. You can hide it.
[1834.83] Adam: Physics is always the problem, as you said.
[1836.67] Frank: Yeah. But yeah, I don't think that's the ideal, the ideal use case, you know,
[1842.03] Frank: the security wise, you can't hide everything behind trees. It doesn't work.
[1846.11] Adam: No, I don't know. You know, a lot of government installations are hidden behind trees.
[1850.11] Frank: Is that why? Because it just stops us taking control of their drones.
[1855.07] Jae: That's right. I think that's when I started to learn to fly planes. They always said don't
[1859.63] Jae: fly behind the trees. I never was allowed to fly behind the trees. And I suppose therein lies a
[1864.35] Jae: problem. People that get into this hobby now. Yeah, well, yeah, that too. But people getting
[1869.71] Jae: into the hobby don't have any sort of unless they have friends already in the hobby, any sort of
[1874.51] Jae: training before they can go out and fly. And it's when someone this week flew a Phantom 4 over the
[1881.63] Jae: streets of London. Every single rule in the book. And the community at least did jump on and say,
[1890.35] Jae: that's rubbish. Take that video down. You'll ruin it for everyone. You're not allowed to fly there.
[1894.35] Jae: The community at least posted all these things. And it did get taken down. But I suppose by,
[1900.43] Adam: you know, just one of those people who's seen drones and thinks they're cool,
[1904.59] Adam: who just said, Oh, did you see that video of London? It was awesome.
[1908.67] Adam: And, you know, I was like, No, I didn't. I hadn't heard about it. Is it? Well, straight up
[1915.15] Adam: Regent Street. No, no, that's absolutely unacceptable. But the video was good.
[1921.39] Frank: It was an interesting video. That's what he was saying. He was saying, but it was really awesome.
[1925.07] Adam: And surely these things are safe now. Was it what he thought? So it's really interesting that he
[1930.19] Adam: wasn't having a panic about it. But actually, us as a community were terrified of what was going to
[1935.23] Jae: happen if it stayed up there. Have there been any prosecutions in America for flying?
[1942.51] Chris White: There was a guy who landed. I'm not sure if it was a phantom, but some similar quadcopter on a
[1949.31] Chris White: ledge at a building in Manhattan. And he asked police to help him get it down and they arrested him.
[1957.63] Chris White: Yeah, that wasn't a great move on his part. No, he wasn't even that high enough.
[1961.71] Frank: I heard that from like behind the behind the headlines about that one was that he it was like
[1968.83] Frank: a nano QX type size thing. And he had asked the gun inside, asked them, Can I fly it? And they had
[1979.63] Frank: said, Yep, sure, that's no problem. And then he said he'd then gone and flown it. And so it got
[1988.43] Frank: stuck somewhere. So he'd gone inside and asked, Can we kind of kind of get it back? It's got stuck up
[1993.63] Chris White: there. And they changed their mind at that point. There was another guy, too, who crashed a drone
[2001.71] Frank: in one of the hot springs in Yellowstone Park. Yeah, that's a bad, bad form. Beyond that,
[2010.75] Chris White: there's been lots of reports of near misses with planes. Some of them I'm quite skeptical of,
[2015.63] Chris White: but some of them are probably quite real. And of course, that's hard to track those people down.
[2020.19] Adam: Yeah, very, very expensive civil action. Yeah, you know, I don't know about police prosecution,
[2025.47] Adam: but to be honest, if you get fined $1.4 million as the people of Skypex, or is it? No, not Skypex.
[2034.19] Adam: Anyway, we had some people in the first edition of my book on drones,
[2038.99] Adam: that I thought would do these amazing shots over Manhattan. And I assumed, because they told me,
[2045.71] Adam: that it was all perfectly legit, that they got sued and lost by the FAA for $1.4 million. So we
[2052.27] Adam: had to quickly redo it for the next printing. So we didn't feature them, which was quite,
[2058.03] Jack: quite annoying. That's a bit awkward. Yeah, it was a scene of a quad, says White Spy.
[2063.07] Jack: Was it what, sorry? The quad that crashed into the Empire State Building was a SEMA.
[2070.03] Adam: S-I-M. It's not effective. Yeah.
[2072.03] Jack: That is. Oh, okay. No, it weren't a phantom. It was just, you know, like the SEMA quad.
[2078.51] Jack: Ivy Crazy's got one of them. He plays with his dog with it. And the dog catches out the air,
[2083.47] Jack: pretty harmless. I'm sure plastic spoons more deadly.
[2087.15] Adam: Well, what if the props get near his eyes, that's what I'd say.
[2091.07] Adam: It's been so slowly, honestly. It's just held in the air by his mouth.
[2095.79] Jack: Yeah. I'm sure I could hurt myself with it. You can hurt yourself with a tree.
[2100.99] Jack: Exactly. And a sleep shop.
[2103.39] Adam: That's a valid thing to hurt yourself with. So what do you think the next sort of
[2108.99] Adam: step will be in the code for aircraft in general, Chris?
[2114.99] Chris White: More accurate and higher capability gyros being used, I think. And definitely starting to
[2123.95] Chris White: incorporate imagery. You know, DJI's got their object avoidance thing, which, you know, is,
[2131.95] Chris White: I don't know how good it is, but, you know, it's interesting. They're incorporating cameras in
[2135.63] Chris White: different ways to avoid obstacles and to improve tracking over ground. So that's something that I
[2143.55] Chris White: think the hobby should start playing around with because it's totally doable.
[2149.79] Adam: It always feels so sort of impressive and commercial. It feels like it would need an
[2154.67] Adam: army of people to do the code, to do something like that.
[2158.75] Chris White: The army's already kind of done it. And there's a lot of open projects that support it. OpenCV
[2164.27] Chris White: is a big code project that gives you the building blocks to do a lot of machine vision kinds of
[2169.87] Chris White: things. And yeah, you know, it's not going to be over.
[2173.15] Jae: Jones, is it? I mean, there's been the Raspberry Pi, there's been the other
[2177.15] Adam: better boards. Has anyone got a Raspberry Pi
[2180.75] Jae: project yet? Or is it all on Arduino? No, you can get a plug-in board for the Raspberry Pi.
[2187.47] Jae: Navio2, I think they're up to now. You plug it onto your Raspberry Pi and it makes it a fully
[2191.95] Jae: autonomous flight capable. Someone did a demonstration of it in front of a
[2198.03] Jack: load of class and the ESC caught on fire very badly. That's the last I heard.
[2204.35] Adam: Jack, your card is in the rule of not being on fire.
[2207.39] Jae: Yeah, don't break. It just opens it up for another audience and that's a wonderful thing, I think.
[2213.79] Frank: So Jack, is that a story of someone you know having an ESC cut?
[2218.11] Jack: No, no, I didn't. You know, it's a class and it looks like America.
[2222.11] Jack: I only thought, you know, and the ESC, just lovely on fire. If I find it, I will add it to the show
[2230.03] Jack: notes, but it's just what I think it was titled, like what not to do during a quad demonstration
[2236.59] Jack: or something. How many ESC fires have you had, Jack? No. Well, I had one on the first day of
[2243.63] Jack: shooting on Let's Drone Out YouTube, so Ed's got that. I replaced them, you know, the quad that
[2253.55] Jack: Bruce Simpson, RC Model Reviews, was working, you know, flying and testing. I replaced,
[2260.59] Jack: in the end, I had to replace all three arms of that quad and one of them did catch on fire
[2265.39] Jack: during an ESC calibration. During a calibration? Yeah, pretty good. Wow, that's impressive. Yeah,
[2272.35] Jack: I know. I don't know how I managed that. And then the the tricopter has had an ESC fire.
[2281.07] Jack: The ZMR back in the day has had about four ESC fires before I gave up on the KISS 18 amps.
[2288.83] Jack: Frank knows all about that. I knew he'd burnt down his venue. That was great.
[2294.11] Adam: Is anyone else trying to work out if Jack is sad about fires or there's some sort of arsonist
[2298.99] Jae: going in there? Well, I could honestly say I've never had an ESC fire touch, you know. Exactly.
[2305.23] Jack: Jack has a lot of fire stories. I fried them, but not fire. Yeah, I mean, I'd much prefer an ESC
[2312.19] Jack: fire to a LiPo fire. Yeah, yeah, to motor fire. I haven't had one of those. How do you have a
[2318.03] Chris White: motor fire? I was flat. What are you doing? My old planes that I upgraded to LiPo was a Zagi,
[2326.03] Chris White: and I was running the standard speed 400 motor on it and flying it was a good flight. And then
[2333.15] Chris White: suddenly I had to dead stick it in, had no power, and I went and got it. The motor was on fire.
[2338.43] Adam: Wow. Oh my God. With the old gas aircraft, were there any explosions?
[2346.35] Chris White: I don't think the fuel was really an explosive kind of fuel.
[2351.31] Chris White: It was super high compression, more like diesel. The only times you ever see the explosions
[2357.39] Jae: usually on the jets, and that's just because of the speed of the impact, isn't it? Is it the
[2362.59] Frank: nitromethane fuel like you have for the cars that worked on the planes? Yeah, that was the same.
[2368.27] Frank: Yeah, because I've made a pulse jet out of a glass jar in a bucket of water with one of them
[2374.27] Frank: with this nitromethane fuel. Glass, the main tool. Yeah.
[2380.91] Frank: So it was only driving it downwards, but it was still, it was a pulse jet, so it's fine.
[2385.47] Frank: It made a lot of noise. What could possibly go wrong? Yeah, it was that kid who managed to
[2392.11] Adam: achieve nuclear fission in his school the other year. Did you hear a read about that?
[2397.15] Frank: Yeah, he got close enough that the FBI went in and were like, no, we're taking all this away.
[2402.67] Adam: It was in the UK. It was in some posh privacy. A different one. They helped him out. Someone else.
[2408.59] Adam: Yeah, no, not some little Sheldon character who was trying to destroy his neighbors with an
[2413.63] Adam: x-ray or something. No, he was an excellent student and was being encouraged to
[2422.19] Adam: have a reaction, which seems a little unnerving. Yeah, and then you've got a boy who brings in
[2427.71] Adam: a clock and then all of a sudden he's a terrorist. Oh, no, don't look. This boy was white and quite
[2433.95] Jack: posh, so it's fine. Yeah, great. What do you think of the SPI bus? It's a wonderful bus.
[2444.35] Adam: I use it all the time. I don't know how to answer that question. Better or worse than a number 93?
[2449.31] Chris White: I see two, which do you prefer? It's definitely SPI. I prefer it over I2C most of the time.
[2457.71] Frank: Oh, look at him. Can you translate, please, with your knowledge? No, no, I'm not even going to
[2463.07] Jack: bother. I'm just going to embarrass myself. You do it. I don't know. These are all different
[2469.71] Jack: words that I don't know. You've got at least some experience. Well, SPO is a one-wire bus
[2480.75] Jack: protocol that pulls the information in a way. Explain I2C. It's very similar, except the
[2492.67] Chris White: advantage of I2C is that it doesn't have a chip select. For SPI, you have to have a chip select
[2500.51] Chris White: line that goes to every device. You can tell it, okay, I'm talking to you. For I2C, you have an
[2508.75] Chris White: address, and you can address them on the wire and say, okay, I'm talking to you. I'm talking to you,
[2514.19] Chris White: and it saves lives. A lot of wires. But it's more complicated, and with both of them,
[2519.95] Chris White: everybody's device implements it just slightly differently. So it's a standard with some
[2528.35] Chris White: variations, and the variations tend to be difficult to debug if they're not working right.
[2532.59] Frank: So now that I've actually looked into it very briefly, now I do recognize it because I have
[2538.99] Frank: used it on some Arduino projects. But basically, I've only ever learned anything about them.
[2544.35] Frank: The minimum of I have had to know to be able to write some bit of code to make a chip work,
[2548.91] Frank: to then put it away and forget everything. So I'm very bad and don't learn these things.
[2554.67] Jack: Maybe I should. I'm dyslexic. I just can't.
[2558.75] Jack: So YouTube everything.
[2560.51] Jack: I just, yeah, I'm just like, when I start looking at code, I'm like,
[2566.03] Jack: you know, I can barely spell. You know, that's on fire. I can fix that.
[2573.95] Jack: But when it comes to, I just, Boris, yeah, filters. I just don't understand. I mean,
[2581.15] Jack: poor bradders, bradders trying to explain things to me from the improvements of
[2588.35] Jack: of actually, I might do a podcast of that where Dan's dyslexic, I'm dyslexic,
[2594.43] Jack: and then bradders doesn't understand a word that Boris says.
[2598.35] Jack: And then we all try and explain things together.
[2604.11] Adam: Somebody in between you before the chaos rains on.
[2607.47] Adam: Yeah, I'm amazed you managed to put out all those fires you start.
[2610.51] Jack: Yeah, I know. That's it.
[2612.43] Frank: Well, by the time we got there, they were already out in Whitechapel.
[2615.79] Jack: Yeah, yeah, it did stink to high heaven.
[2619.95] Jack: Yeah, so I don't know.
[2623.23] Frank: Does anyone watch the hidden Britain by drone with drones?
[2629.15] Adam: But my TV has watched it, and I will watch it late, you know,
[2632.35] Adam: or it'll tell me what it thought.
[2634.91] Jae: You watched it with me, didn't you, Niko?
[2636.59] Jae: I was impressed with some of the footage, but they had large machines to go over.
[2641.31] Frank: Yeah, but it's still nice to watch sometimes.
[2644.43] Frank: So they need to grade some of their footage.
[2646.51] Frank: That's all I'll say.
[2647.87] Jack: Was it was it just me or did some of it look like you didn't need a drone?
[2652.99] Jae: Yeah, well, no, a lot of it was shot without a drone.
[2655.71] Jae: And yeah, some of it didn't really need a drone.
[2657.79] Adam: They were just on a show called like Britain by drone.
[2660.51] Adam: A lot of it was shot from the land.
[2662.35] Adam: And also, why do you need Baldry?
[2664.11] Adam: Well, it's not just to have cool cool pictures.
[2667.55] Frank: It's because it's channel four and it's in a field.
[2669.47] Frank: So, you know, so you have to have Baldry.
[2671.15] Adam: Yeah, no, I know.
[2672.43] Adam: It's a positive image for some of these drones now.
[2675.87] Jae: And I suppose we're lucky that there is some positive show.
[2680.51] Jae: U.S. side.
[2681.31] Jae: Is there any shows that...
[2682.51] Chris White: Is this Baldryk if I have a cunning plan?
[2684.75] Adam: Yes, exactly.
[2686.51] Adam: In real life, he's called Tony Robinson.
[2688.19] Adam: And these days now he does this architectural show in the UK.
[2694.11] Adam: He takes the Indiana Jones out of archaeology
[2696.83] Adam: and makes it some boring people digging near a village for Roman coins.
[2701.79] Adam: That kind of thing.
[2703.15] Adam: Drinking cider.
[2704.43] Frank: Or flying drones, apparently.
[2706.43] Adam: Yeah, but now flying drones.
[2708.11] Adam: So that's...
[2709.39] Adam: Yeah, him.
[2710.43] Frank: Yeah, you've got...
[2712.27] Frank: Well, MythBuses obviously had a lot of drones flying.
[2714.99] Frank: But yeah, are there any other big shows out in America
[2717.79] Chris White: that have obvious drone usage?
[2720.59] Chris White: Maybe in terms of just getting footage,
[2722.19] Chris White: but there's not a lot of kind of technological...
[2727.55] Chris White: Technology interesting TV shows these days.
[2731.79] Chris White: Maybe somebody else has some suggestions, but...
[2734.67] Frank: You've got your podcasts.
[2738.11] Frank: Particularly, I've been listening through the backlock of catalog on your podcast.
[2744.03] Frank: And definitely the Simone Yurch and the Sarah Pettis one.
[2749.23] Frank: Those are very nice and easy to get into it.
[2753.71] Frank: Those were very interesting ones.
[2755.71] Frank: And I would highly recommend everyone go and wait and listen to them.
[2759.47] Frank: I want to marry...
[2760.03] Frank: Particularly Jack.
[2760.75] Frank: You need to go to listen to both of those two.
[2763.55] Frank: I know you like Simone Yurch already,
[2764.91] Frank: but also listen to Sarah Pettis' one
[2766.75] Frank: because that is also very much up your street.
[2770.43] Jack: Simone, just link me.
[2771.95] Chris White: Did you say you had a question, Chris?
[2773.47] Chris White: I did in the last remaining moments.
[2775.47] Chris White: We like getting questions.
[2777.79] Chris White: If I wanted to get into quads,
[2779.07] Chris White: which I'm not really into right now,
[2781.15] Chris White: what should I get?
[2782.27] Chris White: How should I start?
[2784.35] Jae: What did you want to do though?
[2785.55] Jae: Just race or have aerial photography
[2788.59] Jae: more capable flight or race fast?
[2792.11] Chris White: A little bit do-it-yourself,
[2793.31] Chris White: and I don't really care about speed that much.
[2795.87] Frank: I would...
[2796.59] Frank: I mean, whatever you do,
[2798.27] Frank: I would recommend getting something small
[2800.67] Frank: like a Hubsan X4 first.
[2803.07] Frank: Actually, you know what?
[2804.67] Jae: Sorry, I'd say you'd probably be better off with something like a Pixhawk
[2808.27] Jae: because they are ultra configurable.
[2810.51] Jae: Oh yeah.
[2811.63] Jae: And 32-bit, the newer ones.
[2813.71] Jae: So the good architecture.
[2815.55] Frank: Definitely for your ability of coding side,
[2819.23] Frank: you want to pick...
[2819.79] Frank: It's the APM.
[2820.43] Jae: Yeah.
[2820.91] Jae: Yeah, APM.
[2821.71] Jae: It's a good established software package.
[2826.19] Adam: And fantastic support, you know,
[2827.71] Adam: with the online, their website.
[2830.91] Adam: It's great.
[2832.43] Adam: Definitely.
[2832.99] Adam: The community.
[2836.11] Frank: But while you're building that one,
[2837.71] Frank: practice flying with a Hubsan X4 first
[2840.19] Frank: because it's about 20 pounds
[2841.79] Frank: and you can learn all the throttle control
[2843.87] Frank: and orientation and all of those skills.
[2847.07] Frank: Have you flown any Helis or anything, Chris?
[2849.47] Chris White: I've flown some very, very cheap quads
[2852.03] Chris White: and one very, very small Heli, so...
[2856.11] Jack: Yeah, if I live in America,
[2858.35] Jack: I'd get a Blade Nano QX or something like that.
[2861.23] Jack: You know, the one with the goggles
[2863.95] Jack: so then you can kind of play around.
[2865.79] Jack: Buy something from a white spy.
[2868.19] Jack: He's got kits.
[2869.63] Jack: All right.
[2870.19] Jack: Yeah, he's American.
[2872.75] Jae: It has been a pleasure having you on, Chris.
[2875.15] Jae: Oh, thanks.
[2875.71] Jack: It's been fun talking to you guys.
[2877.31] Adam: Yeah, thank you.
[2877.95] Adam: It's been great.
[2878.43] Adam: Sorry if we've been a bit all over the place.
[2880.99] Frank: That's quite all right.
[2882.03] Frank: Yeah.
[2882.35] Frank: Thank you for bearing with us.
[2883.71] Frank: And yeah, it's been interesting to hear
[2886.67] Frank: a different side of things.
[2887.95] Jack: Yep.
[2888.27] Jack: No worries.
[2889.71] Jack: All right.
[2890.19] Adam: And good luck.
[2892.19] Frank: Yeah, we look forward to hearing about
[2893.87] Frank: what you managed to get at X-HOP to do.
[2898.11] Jae: Follow your work or anything
[2899.47] Jae: or do you put anything up on the online
[2901.15] Jae: of what you're working on?
[2902.03] Jae: Is there any way people can find your stuff?
[2905.15] Chris White: So we have the Embedded.fm blog,
[2907.23] Chris White: which is where I will put stuff
[2908.59] Chris White: if I get around to putting things up.
[2911.71] Chris White: That's at Embedded.fm.
[2913.31] Chris White: And, you know, I always talk about stuff
[2914.75] Chris White: on the podcast too.
[2916.11] Chris White: And I'm Stony Monster on Twitter,
[2917.87] Chris White: if anybody cares.
[2919.63] Jae: Ah, well, no, I mean, it's,
[2922.35] Jae: I think there's, you know,
[2923.95] Jae: people going back towards planes now.
[2925.39] Jae: So it'd be interesting to hear your perspective
[2927.39] Jae: of how you put your fix through.
[2929.87] Adam: Oh, there are a lot of quad people
[2931.31] Adam: who, you know, come into planes that way
[2933.23] Adam: rather than like digital photographers
[2937.31] Adam: turning to film.
[2938.91] Jae: It's good to get someone who's come
[2940.43] Jae: from a different angle, you know,
[2942.51] Jae: or a different experience
[2943.95] Jae: and different knowledge of different systems.
[2946.19] Adam: Yeah.
[2946.59] Chris White: Well, yeah, like I said,
[2948.99] Chris White: finding out how much everything has changed
[2950.51] Chris White: has been really impressive.
[2952.03] Jack: Right. We've got to go, guys.
[2953.71] Jack: No worries.
[2954.03] Jack: Thank you.
[2954.51] Jack: You've been listening to Let's Drone Out.
[2956.03] Jack: Tune in every week from 8 until 9.
[2958.83] Jack: GMT.
[2959.95] Jack: On Thursday night show.
[2961.63] Adam: Bye.
[2962.51] Jack: Tally ho.
[2963.39] Adam: Telemetry lost.