=== Let's Drone Out — Episode 44 ===
Title: Ep 44 - NJTech
Recorded: 2016-06-30
Hosts: Neil "NJ Tech" Jones, Jack "Brightontillifly" Nash, Jae "Chipko", Adam Juniper
Guest(s): Anaseed
Total audience: 1,817
Platforms: SoundCloud (http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/feeds.soundcloud.com/stream/275338638-letsdroneout-ep-44-njtech.mp3)
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Sorry our updates are delayed - this episode was recorded live at poweringon.co.uk on 30th June, but we're catching up fast!

[0.0] (Editor): don't forget this podcast is sponsored by radio c number one for all your drone related needs
[8.16] (Editor): pay them a visit at radio c.co.uk and use the promo code ldeo for five percent off your order
[13.76] Jae: and free shipping on orders over 80 pounds hello everybody and welcome to a slightly late let's
[20.0] Jae: drone out over on powering on.co.uk uh tonight we have our usual guest of adam because he's the
[27.44] Jae: one that's been around so much lately but we've also got jack back where have you been jack
[30.88] Jack: hey doing hello i'm not very well but uh would you like to hear our new intro for powering on
[36.64] Jack: oh go on have you got it hang on yeah here we go what do you think of that guys let's
[64.54] Jack: skit so some ESC noises there you go i thought i'd play you that that's made by colanderson
[70.38] Jack: thank you very much so that will be playing in the beginning of our shows yeah so um yeah
[75.58] Jae: sorry i didn't get all the way through the introductions before we had sorry jack welcome back
[79.5] Jae: thank you the adam welcome to the show and i see at night is nj tech um hello yeah welcome to the
[88.7] Jae: uh let's draw now we're sorry for starting a little bit later than usual we had a few gremlins
[93.1] Jae: and jack is ill he is very ill you shouldn't have eaten those gremlins really are you doing
[99.66] Jack: this from the toilet jack or not no no believe it or not no i'm doing it from the end end
[105.42] Jack: of my bed that it make it that what you will wow it's always exciting it's always exciting
[114.86] Jae: so um actually uh nj uh from uh is one of the local flyers to me i was lucky enough to meet
[120.54] Jae: him through youtube they kind of connected um but for me in the last sort of month i've met so many
[127.1] Jae: local flyers and it's actually brought home how actually widespread this is starting to be
[131.58] Jae: face group with groups popping up and everything um so it's a pleasure to have you on the show
[135.26] NJ: tonight uh nj thanks very much yeah it's a funny thing isn't it i mean um the area where i'm living
[141.9] NJ: now i'd kind of only moved there within the the last couple of years and uh one of the first
[147.26] NJ: things i did was was set up a facebook page thinking that there must be other people around here
[152.62] NJ: um that are in they're interested in in doing this so um i set the page up and and it didn't
[159.34] NJ: really get other than the few people that i knew it didn't really get much response
[163.58] NJ: and then uh one of my subscribers spotted uh from the area that i fly in uh spotted where i was and
[171.18] NJ: then said you know hey you must be a local boy you know come over to our group this is the name of
[175.74] NJ: the group i joined said group which of course had you in it and you know 60 other strong members
[182.22] NJ: which was which was fantastic and then there you were all hiding in plain sight exactly exactly
[188.22] Jae: no it's quite interesting because i've been looking around for myself thinking at some point
[191.5] Jae: there must be other flyers local that could fly um you know and it was true to form with that i
[198.22] Jae: mean the group's growing quite quickly as well i think so it's a bit of a mouthful big shout out to
[202.46] Jae: the bedpitcher herafitcher fucking shirt and cambridger multi-roady flyers absolutely because
[210.62] Jack: because i i got the whole engine i didn't realize it was his name i thought it was like new jersey
[215.02] Jack: i i've like come on thinking that i can crack some statin island jokes and stuff and like
[220.94] Jack: you know uh endcast like and and rubbish internet jokes and then uh it turns out he's one of us so
[227.82] NJ: he's a brick you know it's not the first time i've heard that actually i've had a few people
[231.98] NJ: from new jersey say where do you fly man you know tell me we'll have to hook up and i'm like
[236.86] Adam: it's probably gonna be a bit tricky tough group isn't there that was the first thing i found and
[242.22] Adam: i looked you up oh is that is that saying yeah that's it like uh good luck getting that domain
[250.06] Jack: that's it i i thought we were having like you know because like i was going to pull j to one
[254.78] Jack: side and tell him um you know like you do realize this is an illegal transmission now now we've left
[260.14] Jack: the u we're not allowed to talk to anyone outside i didn't realize he that he was very strict on
[265.58] Jack: you know following that policy so well done jay planet then yeah i know jay tech's been
[272.86] Jae: one of the lucky flyers who started on helis and 3d helis so essentially walked into this
[277.9] Jae: to multi-readers do you want to tell us a video about how you got started in all this then
[282.14] NJ: in the uk not so uh yes in the uk um i actually started well i've been flying rc and i try not
[289.18] NJ: to think about how long for now because that will make me feel incredibly old but i think i've i've
[294.14] NJ: been in rc generally for about 25 years now and uh yeah i started pretty young i was about 11 or 12
[301.9] NJ: when i started flying helicopters or or took a very strong interest in helicopters much to my
[307.5] NJ: father's financial horror um and uh yeah and started out on some you know this was back in
[314.62] NJ: the day when when helicopters weren't really very good at 3d and i think my first helicopter in fact
[319.98] NJ: was a uh just a very quickly digress was a fixed pitch helicopter but one where you had to physically
[326.38] NJ: bend the pitch of the blades with a set of pliers and that was part of the instructions
[331.66] NJ: and the only way to then obviously ascend or descend was to rev the motor up or down it
[336.14] NJ: it was horrible but nevertheless i i obviously had had the bug from that instant and then uh
[341.98] NJ: you know these the roots of of the rotary is is with the helicopters so that you know that
[347.74] Jae: passion's never gone 25 years did you say i didn't miss here that no it's it's roughly 25
[354.86] Jack: years don't don't worry that's only a quarter of um well not even a quarter i think that's one
[361.58] Jack: eighth of tony's lifespan so don't worry about it yeah that's true you know like tony's had
[370.3] Jack: conversations with divinci you know uh back in the day you know tony's still in awe that that
[376.86] Jack: this is a real thing you know so don't don't worry about it that it's come to fruition yeah
[381.9] Jae: absolutely so i guess you had to conform to club rules then starting off with helis and not flying
[387.1] NJ: yeah absolutely and um so you can spell bmfo sorry say again you can spell bmfo yeah well done
[397.18] NJ: well yeah i did i had to do my um i i did my a and b license at the time uh which is which
[403.18] NJ: is really going back wow nose in all the way yeah it was it was um yeah it was an interesting
[409.9] NJ: time but i mean there are things that you know moving from that and you know it wasn't that
[415.02] NJ: long ago that you know that i started i'd probably say four or five years ago i started taking
[420.62] NJ: interest in the multi-rotor stuff but there are things that are ingrained in me from all those
[425.42] NJ: years of doing the rc heli stuff i mean the bit that i i try and kind of uh explain to people is
[431.58] NJ: i mean the the helicopters even the electric ones especially the electric ones are incredibly
[436.54] NJ: powerful and you've got these 600 millimeter spinning carbon-bladed bandsaws flying around
[442.62] NJ: the sky they're incredibly dangerous obviously no no we're not allowed to there are things you have
[446.62] NJ: to pay attention to you know like not flying over or near the pit and and you know those those kind
[451.26] NJ: of things are uh kind of in my blood so um you know from a safety point of view i'd love to see
[458.14] NJ: i guess a little more of that safety aspect make its way into the uh into the multi-rotor stuff
[464.14] NJ: because you know although they're small and and may look cute sat on your desk we'll know how uh
[469.18] NJ: how incredibly fast and you know powerful these things are i guess this is a slight reference to
[475.66] Jae: someone known as loose cannon uh and i suppose that's important actually and i mean i read a
[482.78] Jae: post just recently uh where someone was flying in a park and people were getting all edgy about it
[486.94] Jae: and i suppose people are starting to see is people flying different spots so i guess if you
[492.3] Jae: can at least be safe in some respects and have that core aspect to it then it's it's ultimately
[497.34] NJ: going to help it for everyone yeah i think so and most of this stuff is just you know it's just
[502.38] NJ: common sense really you know you're obviously trying to look for places that are you know
[507.5] NJ: secluded away from dog walkers uh some way that your spotter can easily see you know all the
[513.58] NJ: places you're going to fly um and you know it's as i said it's just some some real common sense
[519.18] NJ: but i mean i i do think uh it's the big one for me is you know don't fly over or near the pit
[524.62] NJ: where everyone's sitting because if someone next using a set of goggles they don't want to
[529.34] NJ: you know be flying and suddenly hear something you know almost take uh take their eyebrows off
[535.5] Jack: yeah i mean i don't know they're the oh sorry for about four or five years and i was like you
[541.58] Jae: know never took my props off but you know these things can fly in a strange direction towards you
[546.94] Jae: if they've had a knock and if the gyros are out and it doesn't take much if you're not if you're
[550.7] Jae: taking off from right next to you to hit yourself sometimes so i guess these things to be mindful
[556.46] Jae: yeah my first prop cut in five years isn't too bad though no that's not so bad that's not so bad no
[563.18] Jack: i think it will come to us you know what i mean it's just a matter of time we all we all do take
[569.58] Jack: risks with the old you know powering on and you know you think uh you should be all right
[576.7] Jae: you know yeah well i mean one of the one of the news articles that came up today is they're going
[580.22] Jae: to start teaching drone related flying and applications as an A level so i suppose well
[586.22] Jae: they're starting to indoctrinate the youngsters they're learning it i suppose common sense
[590.62] Jae: from the from the start what you mean there's going to be lectures yeah there was there's a
[596.54] Jae: i mean you can find there's a news story basically where they're going to um
[599.82] Jae: just start doing uh A level teaching to high school kids teenagers essentially for
[605.82] Jae: flying them because let's face it they're going to start getting into integrated into air space
[611.1] Jae: they won't ever be banned because they're too useful sorry Adam what are you saying
[618.14] Adam: no i was just saying it sounds much more interesting than some of the A levels i was
[621.82] Jack: yeah absolutely yeah i definitely would have done that well yeah no you say that you go geography
[627.74] Jack: and uh you know what better way of like surveying the land than quite aerial that would have made
[635.66] Adam: geography god damn cool i wanted to do photography and there wasn't any going outdoors and surveying
[642.86] Adam: land that was just that usual look this is one kind of rock this is another kind of rock that's
[647.9] NJ: geology dyslexic and of course all the information on oxbow lakes those those are always
[657.82] Jae: mandatory to know about the oxbow lake oh i don't think they even did much electronics other than
[662.46] Jae: the theory when i was taught so i think times it and don't forget the good old glacier education
[669.18] Jack: what's that too oh the good old glacier with the old three uh what is it freeze thaw plucking
[678.06] Jae: sorry you're listening to geography lessons 101 it always happens when it's being
[683.18] Jae: giant get the lawnmower out well let's bring it back a bit i mean speaking of education
[690.7] Jae: though i've watched quite a few your videos on some of the maneuvers uh nj so that's that's
[697.5] Jae: pretty interesting for me because i'm still i guess i'm quite a late starter to fpv uh to
[703.26] Jae: a lot of people that listen in but yeah it's it's quite good to just go through this quite
[707.34] Jae: slowly and see the means similar to what the pressure is doing so yeah it's it's an interesting
[713.1] NJ: one um again i guess it was just that that background in in flying line of sight with
[718.78] NJ: the helicopters um and having an aversion to crashing i guess because crashing helicopters
[724.78] NJ: is incredibly expensive and uh you know we're at a point now where you can you know i guess
[732.22] NJ: that's part of the attraction you can you can just crash quads and and not have to care too
[737.02] NJ: much because most of the time it's just a couple of props whereas with the helicopters you could
[740.94] NJ: you know if on an average crash you're probably at least 150 pounds down and all the time it takes
[746.62] NJ: to put the thing back together um so you know concentrating on really smooth clean flying and
[753.02] NJ: and you know making every all your inputs smooth and and getting it to track nicely and the
[759.1] NJ: mechanical setup you know all those things were um that i think were really important a lot of
[765.02] NJ: that can translate across in a in a really positive way to the to the multi rotors and
[770.46] NJ: you know people do especially when they're starting they know everyone's got their favorite
[774.06] NJ: pilots they'll they'll go and watch a charpy video or a schizo video and they'll as soon as
[779.26] NJ: they've worked out what they have to do on the sticks to do a roll or a flip they'll go out and
[784.14] NJ: they'll just bang the sticks around and you know they're just constantly correcting they'll
[789.66] NJ: over correct then recorrect and it'll end up looking very very messy and then they by default
[796.06] NJ: then go well it's the tune the tune's not right and it's like well hold on have you tried tracking
[801.02] NJ: in the straight line and taking your hands not not off the sticks but leave them centered
[806.14] NJ: see what the quad does and then when then when they're surprised is important rather than tuning
[813.18] Adam: you're going to be really upsetting a lot of the yeah i think um there's definitely you know that
[822.38] NJ: was that was something that was that i really wanted to point out and and it was uh one of
[828.46] NJ: the videos that i put up i think there's as probably it's it seems to be the one that's
[833.1] NJ: been the most popular and it was really talking about what not to do you know rather than doing
[838.86] NJ: too much do less and let the quad do some of the work if your quad's well tuned if you know you
[844.14] NJ: have the i-turn well tuned if the quad tracks nice and straight and you want to go in a straight line
[848.78] NJ: straight ahead of you let the quad take you in a nice straight line make your input smooth
[853.98] NJ: track round in nice clean turns you know because it's all of these smoothie inputs that that i
[861.02] NJ: think really give uh the pilots that we refer to as having flow to their style if you actually
[866.78] NJ: ever get to see any of the stick inputs um and i really mean pilots it's like you know johnny fpv
[873.82] NJ: obviously uh chapu jaws you know these guys there's there's nothing erratic about what
[879.18] NJ: they're doing they're really you know beautiful smooth inputs and you can tell they put a lot
[886.38] NJ: of time in on the sticks as well you know and um i think i think that's that's a big part of it
[891.5] NJ: um you can end up sort of going backwards and forwards and and blaming the tune and the expo
[897.58] NJ: and the rates and my center stick's not right and i'm using the you know rewrite i should have been
[902.62] NJ: using lux controller and you can get too lost in that you know i think the big thing is find
[908.46] NJ: something that works get it in a good state and and just continue to fly in fact just to quickly
[915.02] NJ: digress i did speak to one of those particular pilots and i said to them out of interest what
[920.78] NJ: are your current rates and settings and i try to make it happen not to ask these kind of things
[925.1] NJ: because i know they probably get bombarded with it all pin set to fall yeah i said you know what's
[931.34] NJ: the uh what are your what are your settings at which point i was given the answer do you know
[936.22] NJ: what i don't know i haven't actually checked my settings in like almost a year and that that said
[941.82] NJ: it all to me um and that that was like well there you go there's someone who's every time they've
[947.1] NJ: gone out and gone flying their muscle memory is building because they're getting the same thing
[952.54] NJ: on the sticks every time if you uh you know and i'm guilty of this and a lot of people are if you go
[957.74] NJ: home and you tinker with the settings you change your rates you go out the field you come home you
[962.94] NJ: tinker with stuff more every time you change something you're working against your muscle
[967.26] NJ: memory you have to do a little bit of relearning it's a few steps backwards each time so i think
[973.58] NJ: it's important to try and get the quad close and then spend a good amount of time just working
[979.18] NJ: with the quad where it is to help develop your muscle memory and and keep minimize the variables
[986.7] Jae: i guess is what i'm trying to say i guess for me i heard closure is jack i left my own stock and
[992.3] Jae: learnt to fly how it was flying but it was flying reasonably well but it's not perfect and i suppose
[996.06] Jae: there's a balance between getting the stick time in and getting it tuned to the point but you some
[1001.66] Jae: of us are blessed with better tuning abilities and the rumor goes that you wave your magic
[1007.34] Jack: wand and the quad's tuned much better than it was i i i i shut up jay um because i knew that would
[1018.46] Jack: render you speech yeah i was just like i'm gonna get him don't let me come up there um i'll be
[1024.7] Jack: close i'll be in hobby king this weekend uh no in in fairness right the stock beta tune like
[1032.46] Jack: joshua bardwell said it's pretty impressive yes right like it's really good yeah you know and i
[1041.1] Jack: i'll give that admittedly like the you know the i think two revisions back there was a problem
[1046.3] Jack: with the i term in which case all right i'll let you have that one jay but um yeah if you if you
[1053.02] Jack: can get it so it's not not oscillating because at the moment um weirdly enough i flashed my kiss to
[1060.54] Jack: rc 25 i've left it on rc 25 and essentially what i had was if i give it full throttle
[1070.38] Jack: in a straight line i do get either prop wash or some bad oscillations and um so i've gone on to
[1079.18] Jack: the uh you know throttle attenuation the tpa and i've clicked that on default and i absolutely
[1086.62] Jack: hate it i i'm so used to having this sort of like linear throttle curve um i also tried out
[1095.66] Jack: the whole like um pids adjustment where if you have if you have a fully charged battery it lowers
[1101.58] Jack: your pids and then as your battery discharges it gives you more pids that i equally hate
[1108.86] Jack: so i've got it on the kiss firmware yeah it's all on the kiss firmware so i've got you know i've
[1114.54] Jack: got basically 100 when the battery's at 100 when the batteries are you know uh 60 70 is still at
[1122.7] Jack: 100 and then towards the end it's 120 just to kind of bring me back home but i think it's the beta
[1130.46] NJ: flight equivalent they can't possibly match it yeah it's a v-back the id compensation i think is
[1136.38] NJ: the uh the beta flight equivalent to that um it's interesting they're both uh you know i think uh
[1143.66] NJ: base flight and uh and the kiss firmware starting to share a lot of uh uh similar things but i mean
[1151.18] NJ: it's great because they're all they're all kind of they're all kind of good things if you can
[1155.58] NJ: you know get them to work for you yeah um but it's an interesting thing to to try and test i
[1162.7] NJ: mean the main thing is that you're trying it i think that the biggest problem i see is people
[1166.94] NJ: get a little bit afraid they get it somewhere to the point where they think okay it's kind of like
[1171.82] NJ: not as bad as it was before so i'm now not going to touch anything and you know i try and encourage
[1178.14] NJ: people to you know leave everything at stop but maybe start taking the peas up find that oscillation
[1183.74] NJ: point it's not going to it's not going to fall out the sky it's not going to destroy itself but
[1187.5] NJ: you kind of certainly with peter you want to find out where that that uh that oscillation point is
[1193.58] NJ: to be able to know and then dial it back yeah yeah i mean it's easier if you've i mean i i really
[1200.06] NJ: do and i'm very much with uh in joshua barnwell's line of thinking here when it comes to um
[1206.46] NJ: the black box being an absolutely essential tool for uh you know just i say an essential tool
[1213.5] NJ: if you're like-minded in the fact that you want that very last 10 of your tune to be as great as
[1219.82] NJ: possible you want that peace of mind of knowing the data's there to also say yeah this tune's
[1224.54] NJ: great um the black box is uh is is invaluable i think you know that's that's a really that that's
[1231.42] NJ: that's a a great invention that uh i believe that was uh dominick wasn't it that that you
[1237.82] Jack: well came up with that no it was it got it was a pull request and um oh is that right
[1244.62] Jack: yeah he mentions it in a video yeah it was a a pull request and time cop said he didn't want
[1251.98] Jack: to use it i mean admittedly because back in the day the rev fives were the only one with the
[1257.1] Jack: onboard ship the deluxe so for the racers they didn't have any uh onboard chip and then luckily
[1265.42] Jack: enough they were using the open logger and uh dominick was like this is great so he used it and
[1271.66] Jack: then obviously on the rev five it was literally two minutes of flight but um i find that if you
[1278.38] Jack: do use the black box it gives you quite a robotic like really sort of locked in feel sometimes you
[1283.1] Jack: kind of you want that drift for the momentum so yeah i guess you know it's all down to the
[1291.74] NJ: what kind of feel you're after and i think that like the latest uh base flight 2.9 has has done
[1298.06] NJ: or it's has done a really nice job in in kind of rounding out two different fields
[1302.86] NJ: um with the uh the measurement and uh error the term options and measurement gives you that
[1312.78] NJ: slightly more i guess sort of organic feel whereas the uh that the error will give you
[1318.62] NJ: something that's a bit more robotic um which is more in line with things like how 281 felt
[1324.78] NJ: and uh a lot of the previous ones but you know it's it's uh it's getting better and better i mean
[1330.54] NJ: i'm i'm really really loving what what boris and the team have have done with with base flight and
[1336.94] NJ: you know i'm one of the unfortunately i'm just one of these people that has i have a you know
[1342.46] NJ: compulsions to live on the bleeding edge and when release candidates go up i'll be the first
[1348.14] NJ: to jump on and uh test out the new stuff and and and feedback i'd never mind doing that as i'm
[1354.22] NJ: always excited to see what new ideas uh get brought to the table so
[1359.5] Jack: as long as you're not one of those people are like no this doesn't work and it turns out to be
[1363.98] NJ: hardware no no no no certainly not i mean the first thing i do i mean if i always try and you
[1373.18] NJ: know try and isolate a problem a problem first before i start complaining about what i think
[1379.1] NJ: might be a bug um but most of the time you've just you've just got to read you i mean the
[1384.3] NJ: bank flight thread's incredibly difficult to keep up with oh i've given up moves it yeah moves at
[1389.5] NJ: the speed of light um but uh yeah you do have to do a a fair bit of reading to try and keep on top
[1396.22] NJ: of everything and uh you know i usually wait to see in in three or four pages whether anyone's
[1402.14] NJ: experiencing a a problem before i'll pipe up and say actually yeah i'm i'm getting the same issue
[1407.74] Jae: um so yeah speaking of issues you had a problem with your escs didn't you recently
[1414.38] NJ: yes the new um the emacs uh bl heli 30 bl heli s 35 amp emacs lightning series escs which have
[1423.82] NJ: just been recalled um apparently yeah there's there's there's a problem where they're um
[1430.22] NJ: they're resetting in flight and in some instances they're actually just you know if you're in the
[1433.98] NJ: middle of the sky they uh literally go some of them have been going straight into calibration
[1440.46] NJ: mode which is obviously you know in the middle of a flight it's not the best time to recalibrate your
[1444.78] NJ: motors um so yeah there's there's there's some kind of sensitivity issue there with uh you know
[1452.14] NJ: the latest thought train is it's something to do with um the motor braking there's there's some
[1457.82] NJ: of that bat fed current because uh one thing i found out today actually was uh i reinstalled a
[1464.38] NJ: 25 volt uh capacitor back on the pdb and thought let me just put this in and see if this helps and
[1470.54] NJ: um i then went from having this resetting problem every flight to having the problem completely
[1476.62] NJ: disappear so um i mean either way it's a problem and i've lost confidence in the escs but um
[1484.3] NJ: you know uh so i hear emacs are claiming it's only about 30 percent of the uh of those speed
[1490.78] NJ: controls that are out there that people are having problems and they're the so i hear honoring the uh
[1496.78] NJ: people that want to rma them um but again you know this talk of what were these rushed out
[1502.94] NJ: a little as soon as the bl heli s thing was was becoming the new uh the new thing to go for but um
[1511.82] Jae: so your capacitor hack then is to it's a thousand micro farad that's right yeah yeah 25 volt um yeah
[1520.22] Jae: radial electrolytic capacitor um positive to the positive terminal and then to the negative of the
[1525.74] NJ: negative yeah that's it nice nice uh short legs and close to where the the battery connector
[1531.9] NJ: joins the pdb um and yeah it just uh soaks up uh some of that that back fed current from the
[1538.94] NJ: the motor braking i mean the real uh the ones that were pretty harsh on the motor braking the
[1543.18] NJ: reason that i think a lot of people jumped on trying that was actually with the little bees
[1547.5] NJ: which obviously became very popular but again they had a a fair few people that had issues with them
[1553.02] NJ: and there's a few of them that caught fire we we have to acknowledge that a resident expert in
[1561.02] Jae: escs catching fire oh really yeah yeah yeah you're number one i think what should you be
[1565.82] Jack: out to thousands of fires now aren't you yeah yeah i've i've cooked a lot of escs um i i gave
[1574.06] Jack: up on the little bees i did love them i was a big fan of them i didn't find too much feedback
[1580.3] Jack: problems with them i mean it's i think it's because i run an lc filter on my uh vtx and
[1587.82] Jack: camera so that kind of helps so all the noise was left to the escs and um yeah after a while
[1595.26] Jack: i think it when it got to rc 20 no not rc um is it 20 what is it 25 2.5 or 2.6 you know on bl heli
[1607.02] Jack: but the last two revisions because you're on 20 is it 26 now bl heli it's uh 14.6 is the latest
[1614.54] Jack: version yeah 4.6 14.5 yeah because when it was 14.5 it all just started to go into hell and back it
[1622.3] Jack: was too much of a harsh start um i i i just get them stopping and falling out of the sky the last
[1629.66] Jae: two i think as they gained in popularity the production runs went up and probably quality
[1634.06] Jae: control went down i mean i a lot of fakes seems to get four so i don't think there was reliable
[1640.78] Jae: in the later production runs just hideous i still like my flame at the moment yeah they were great
[1646.86] Jack: like you know they were if you didn't want to run dyx um except is it sm 20s xm 20s yeah they're
[1657.42] NJ: they're excellent um but yeah there are lots and lots of people still using the little bees i i had
[1663.42] NJ: i'll be completely honest i had nothing but good luck with the little bees and i've installed them
[1666.86] NJ: in lots of other people's quads for them and i mean personally i was i moved fairly quickly away to
[1673.98] NJ: um rstk's multi-shot protocol uh and so i was running those uh synced at 4k so i was running
[1681.26] NJ: my spf3 at 4k and my multi-shot ascs were being talked to at 4k and i yeah i had a great really
[1689.42] NJ: happy with the tune everything flew well and you know right to the point where i've switched
[1695.94] Jack: oh have we lost you hello mum dad ed uh oh hang on dad hello hello guys you lost me
[1711.66] Adam: most of the aircraft might you know in very common fire themselves but didn't even notice
[1716.46] Adam: i was gone warning don't they there's all but every one of them that i've ever seen
[1721.1] Adam: has had a pretty clear easy to follow you know cartoon level diagram telling you what
[1727.58] Adam: you shouldn't do if you read it yeah yeah if you read it but it's right there at the top of the box
[1733.1] Adam: and you can't you know there's no accounting for an asshole going back to when you had to build a
[1739.82] Jae: plane and then you'd have to find somewhere to fly a plane or even a helicopter but um now you can
[1745.18] Jae: build them without having to find that but i think you know the coming about of where does people
[1750.3] Jae: start from scratch there's the sharing of the knowledge that exists now in these uh community
[1755.26] Jae: you know people that got together in different parts of the world um they share the knowledge
[1760.14] Jae: they share the the wisdom and hopefully teach a little bit because let's face it's more fun
[1765.34] Jack: together guys guys guys yeah can you hear me i yeah we can yeah we can yeah basically um
[1772.94] Jack: i disconnected from skype and i've missed half the podcast i got down to we were arguing
[1780.14] Jack: about little bees and 4k tune and you guys have carried on you know and i kind of you know uh
[1788.3] Jack: can anyone in the chat is anyone still listening does anyone care i don't i don't even know if
[1794.3] Jack: we're still connected what's going on where did we get onto planes oh are we um yeah we're not
[1799.98] Jack: live anymore i don't know yeah apparently we've been probably live now if jack's back on you're
[1805.58] Jae: only disconnect from skype no no we're just uh going on to uh how people get into the hobby
[1810.46] Jae: and what they were flying and and how how you control perhaps more of a safer aspect than what
[1814.54] Jae: came about people going to a high street store like that and you were making a very reasonable
[1820.14] Adam: point that probably the best way is just the community aspect which sort of happens by default
[1825.66] Jae: well you know it's interesting that i think the especially the fpv side of it it's kind of still
[1830.46] Jae: a subculture and it's it's weird for a subculture to exist in the world now with this
[1835.74] Jae: sharing on the internet but it's still a culture where people go out and fly and congregate from
[1839.66] Jae: all sorts of worlds away and that's the community aspect and that's the sharing knowledge aspect
[1845.1] Adam: absolutely it's very rare especially now for anyone to be flying an fpv in in a naughty way
[1853.26] Jae: oh i don't know about that well technically if you didn't have a spotty you're naughty or
[1858.7] Adam: practically naughty you know a lot of people go out with a field without a spot that because i
[1863.5] Adam: do think there's two different sides that people would definitely go out to fields and practice
[1867.26] Adam: without a spot of fields miles from anywhere and technically that's quite naughty but in practice
[1873.74] Adam: the fpv people are not charging down the streets of london or you know causing trouble in in two
[1879.82] Adam: public places i don't think in my experience there's you know a certain level of sensible
[1885.66] Jae: i think one way to address that is if people thought if i was sat in the court of with the
[1891.42] Jae: caa prosecuting me for what i've done how would i stand up to it and if you said well i looked
[1896.54] Jae: around there was no one there and you were sensible about it then you stand a much better chance than
[1901.74] Jae: if you were just completely reckless and i think that's the kind of idea that if i had to explain
[1907.66] Jae: my actions how would how well would it go and in practice your actions are far more likely to
[1913.74] Adam: impede upon people and therefore catch the attention of the fba if you do it somewhere
[1917.98] Jae: you shouldn't if you're flying in a park full of people then you kind of yeah your actions
[1922.62] Jae: exactly then you basically deserve everything you get whereas if you're flying in a park nobody
[1926.62] Jae: is around you you had a wrecking first blah blah blah you know it's the sense and risk it's kind
[1931.9] Jae: of the risk assessment sensibility should i fly this is it a little bit risky yes can i mitigate
[1937.5] Adam: it can i fly it still yeah almost like the risk assessment without the necessity of villain if
[1942.54] Jae: you have the idea in your head that at least i've checked first in my head before i fly wherever
[1948.14] Jae: you are that you know you cover you're safe enough for what they're not going to prosecute you i
[1954.62] Jae: don't think if you're flying a legal rate uh channel and the coppers turn up and you know
[1960.54] Jae: then they might as i think well yeah no they're the power output of your btx yeah now that's
[1966.86] Adam: more likely to get more and more attention as more and more technology goes mobile
[1971.9] Jae: so it's an interesting time i think uh people keep it safe and yeah i think the the main thing
[1978.54] NJ: though as you rightly point out is is if you are just getting into it you know find out who around
[1984.62] NJ: you is doing it because if you can find that community hub you know even if it's 10 people
[1990.94] NJ: or you know or the bigger the better you've got that wealth of knowledge you've got people that
[1995.5] NJ: have made the mistakes before you to stop you making the mistakes and you've you've just got
[1999.82] NJ: the knowledge pool there to make sure that you do everything correctly and you've you've got the
[2003.26] NJ: help and advice that you need to go along with it so yeah i think that's that's that's definitely
[2009.02] NJ: up there in the preliminary steps is is find like-minded people near you and that will make
[2015.02] NJ: your your journey into the fpv glorious one hopefully for anyone listening don't forget
[2023.26] Jae: nj and jack both build repair rebuild quads for other people
[2027.42] Adam: i was about to say i'd really want to find a community with jack in it
[2033.5] Jae: the truth is the community sometimes also give away free stuff that's no longer serving other
[2037.26] Jae: people it's good if you're starting out to get often started on a good footing and yeah yeah
[2045.34] Jack: um anyone anyone listening to this all right uh whether it be on itunes or anything the next
[2051.26] Jack: 10 subscribers every everyone else does this on my show so i'm going to start it the next
[2057.82] Jack: 10 subscribers i'm going to give away a sticker pack and some props and some other goodies
[2064.06] Jack: so if you follow right until i fly uh on youtube because i i basically need like nine more
[2070.54] Jack: subscribers to make 100 oh you know we haven't even done we haven't even needed to just uh
[2076.06] Adam: oh jack can i have a sticker yeah you can have a sticker i'm going straight to my youtube account
[2080.7] Jae: now i'm not even sure what were you saying where where did people find your videos for
[2087.5] NJ: learning how to fly these things uh nj um so yeah my my youtube channel uh handle is nj tech um
[2096.78] NJ: and yeah there's there's i've tried to make an effort to make sure that everything's playlisted
[2102.46] NJ: nicely so that um you can find my kind of flight school area where i talk about all the
[2108.06] NJ: the different aspects of flying and and some there's some stuff on basic apro flying right
[2112.78] NJ: up to some more advanced tricks and maneuvers to have a go of and then there's also um there's a
[2119.58] NJ: flashing guide for bl heli multi-shot um there's a talk on PID tuning there's there's everything
[2125.82] NJ: should be nicely laid out so you can you can find some some useful information there so
[2131.34] NJ: yeah by all means please do to pop on over and say hello fpv backpack hmm yes that was a recent
[2139.42] NJ: one yeah i'm having stuff as many things into the smallest backpack that you can uh is uh yeah it's
[2147.82] NJ: quite an art form actually but one i seem to one seemed to enjoy yeah yeah you should offer to
[2155.02] Adam: review some backpacks for a magazine um because they never asked for them back i've got i've got
[2159.98] Adam: some excellent drone back yeah very nice idea we could do a giveaway i don't tell anyone that
[2166.78] Adam: by the way yeah i think we just have they've done yeah i i can strongly recommend the low pro one
[2173.58] Adam: uh that they sell which is sort of phantom from the size it's got a lot of lovely little
[2178.62] Adam: cubby holes and it's very protective um so i reckon you could fit anything in but that's a bit giant
[2183.26] Adam: for uh a little quad little too heavy i have straps on the outside for more stuff
[2190.78] Adam: it does it actually no it's not it's it's more it's more got little pods inside that you can
[2197.5] Adam: take out that fit around the um fuselage that's the number one thing for any backpack i think
[2204.14] Jae: though if you're having races like those and stuff is that is that the stuff is that the uh
[2210.78] Jack: you know the efl dlg is that our discus the launch glider you are looking back at some old
[2218.78] NJ: videos there is that the one from hobby king no no that's um i can't remember who made that the elf
[2225.5] NJ: is uh no god i can't remember who he makes that but it's it's a really premium little discus
[2232.46] NJ: glider that it's so much fun on a hot day uh it's just it's you know endless fun if you
[2238.38] NJ: you get on a hot day with some thermals that thing will just stay up indefinitely you just lay on
[2242.3] Jack: your back and and thermal saw it it's i'm worried that you know you hit a really good thermal and
[2247.66] NJ: it's just gone it's happened to me it happened to me a couple of times actually it was just up the
[2253.82] NJ: side of uh the side of an approaching cloud there was this huge updraft and i felt it get into it
[2260.06] NJ: and i kept climbing and climbing and then i thought god i'm actually in trouble here because
[2263.98] NJ: i'm almost at the point where i'm going to lose it so i had to start trying to dive to get it to
[2269.26] NJ: get it back down so yeah very much can happen but they're they're enormous fun there's nothing
[2275.42] NJ: quite as intriguing as um keeping a plane aloft from uh from from just the energy provided by
[2282.7] Jack: mother earth it's quite quite an incredible thing um okay oh sorry i'm having a burnt out
[2289.42] Adam: building in one of the one of your videos that's uh house in the house um which is up in bedford
[2297.74] NJ: share yeah that's uh that's a really lovely spot um really really nice space yeah yeah that that
[2305.66] NJ: was uh hamtill that's probably one of the best buildings to fly around up here i think yeah
[2311.5] NJ: that was uh it was a fairly that was i think it was my first time there and it was you can see
[2315.58] NJ: i'm fairly tentative about getting anywhere near the building um but uh yeah as in terms of of
[2322.86] NJ: kind of a few of those real nice sort of dream spots that have a bit of everything there's
[2326.46] NJ: there's kind of a couple of sort of dead trees there with sort of low hanging branches and
[2331.9] NJ: things to fly in around uh there's obviously that that building this yeah there's do you
[2337.98] Jae: have it with no cows there usually there's a load of cows in so is there is that all right yeah
[2343.34] Jae: it's um and you know you're making smart and you just you can see lock your mind from up there
[2349.18] Jae: oh yeah of course they're only up the road aren't they i just thought the road oh check you out man
[2353.74] Jack: oh fate fat shark attitude and faceplate check you out sorry i'm just having a look at your
[2359.42] Jack: um storm dodging fpv and you're running beaterfly 2.81 and yeah yeah lux flow air mode spf3 and this
[2370.38] Jack: is your 4k setup so that's got your 4k loop time and your little b flash remotely shot at 4k
[2378.22] NJ: that's the one yeah and i was pretty pretty pleased with the way that that tuned up um it
[2384.46] Jack: looks incredible rc rate because like you just it flips on a dime or have you got the
[2391.58] NJ: stupid mode activated oh the super expo uh so yeah that's had kind of a big a big shift from
[2402.06] NJ: as of late as to how the the super expo and and rates work and it's actually a little bit like
[2408.14] NJ: how the the kiss system works um but basically super expo is is now built into the rates so
[2415.26] NJ: the way you adjust rates is as now also adjusting the curve itself um so that relationship the more
[2422.62] NJ: you increase the rates the more you're actually increasing that curve as well so uh just quickly
[2428.94] NJ: on that subject my advice to people is to get that relationship right where you because as you
[2435.1] NJ: increase the rates you get to that point where you get the flip flip and roll rate to feel nice
[2439.34] NJ: and as fast as you want it or feel feel good in relation to the mid stick because remember the
[2445.74] NJ: faster the more aggressive that curve the more the mid stick is going to get softer so what what
[2452.22] NJ: i tend to suggest is you adjust the rates now on the latest base flight until the relationship
[2457.5] NJ: between the mid stick and the end points feel good so the mid stick feels good the end feels snappy
[2463.98] NJ: when you've got that right then go to the RC rate and move that up to get that to keep that
[2469.66] NJ: proportion but to make the whole thing faster um and yeah that where i'm i think my RC rates are
[2475.74] NJ: about 1.1 now and the rates are about 85.85 so they uh yeah it is quite snappy but it's still
[2484.78] NJ: nice and smooth in the in the mid stick um so yeah i'm really enjoying the way that controller
[2490.54] NJ: feels it's a lot like the old multi b23 controller which um you know i've said to Boris before how
[2498.38] NJ: much i love that controller um and there's definitely elements of that in in the latest
[2504.22] Jack: latest versions i'm surprised you went with luxe rather than the rewrite you know what i mean in
[2512.06] Jack: you know what made you switch over to luxe you traitor
[2515.82] Jae: i've had luxe since i went to luxe
[2520.62] NJ: you know what for for the 95 of my quadcopter flying time has been uh yeah rewrite 100 it's
[2530.22] NJ: only um in the last couple that i thought i will try out the luxe uh the the the float math and
[2536.54] NJ: see how that is and um yeah i've got to say i've uh i've i've been enjoying it i have i actually
[2542.86] NJ: have them on two different profiles so i have profile one on float and uh profile two on on the
[2549.98] NJ: integral which is the uh you know the rewrite math and uh i just sort of flicked between the
[2554.94] NJ: two but i'm now yeah i'm swaying towards the the float math a bit more now you you decimal
[2561.66] Jae: point mastered i think a while ago i tried luxe and i went back to monty re rewrite on something
[2568.06] Jae: and then yeah just lately i it just seemed better for just what i started with and yeah
[2574.54] Jae: maybe they've made some maybe you should try it jack would you like to try a steak
[2583.74] NJ: i i still think um yeah i still think there's something about i mean the thing i used to really
[2589.42] NJ: love about rewrite was was just they the mid-stick feel on rewrite was just fantastic and i think
[2595.26] NJ: that's why it was so popular with the races as well it was just so responsive uh so you know
[2601.82] NJ: responsive and and very lively whereas i felt luxe was more more towards the freestyle um side of
[2610.46] NJ: things um did you think you know boris is working hard obviously try and cater for those two
[2616.3] NJ: audiences because they you know they do you know i'm not i wouldn't class myself as a racer at all
[2621.58] NJ: i do it for a bit of fun and i enjoy it when i do it but um really my uh what i enjoy the most is
[2627.26] NJ: the freestyle stuff so that those smoother mid-sticks are more important to me i think
[2632.54] NJ: you know you know your 450 what did that run on the 450 um right the old the old ship i still got
[2639.98] NJ: it my franking quad that it was running on a nasa m and this was back when the nasa m and the gps
[2649.58] NJ: those two units cost me 350 pounds for the nasa m and the gps so that was going back a while
[2658.7] NJ: because you can pick up that with the f450 for a absolute fraction of that now i think um yeah
[2666.3] NJ: but the f450 was uh yeah just as the nasa i think it was pretty close to when that had just
[2671.26] NJ: come out the nasa controller and you know that flew that that flew pretty well i was quite um
[2677.82] NJ: i'd i'd good fun with that but the point where i started it was it built as a camera ship
[2682.46] NJ: and that's what it is really because i put a gimbal under it uh gimbal to be able to do aerial
[2687.74] NJ: filming what gimbal i took it out it was it was actually just a cheapy tarot gimbal oh god it did
[2694.86] Jack: the job you know the um nj is getting worse honestly bloody doesn't use multi-wee never
[2703.5] Jack: probably never owned a kk2 board and then he's like i got a tarot i did have a kk2 board and
[2711.74] NJ: i will point out i was and i still have my original open pilot cc3d and open pilot revo
[2718.86] NJ: both both backs both of those projects uh back on the back of their birth what what are your gains
[2725.98] NJ: it says white spot
[2730.94] NJ: do you know what that that was that was back when it was kind of let's let's just push the
[2735.34] NJ: sliders around and then go fly and see what happens mate no d no no it didn't an awful lot did it
[2742.22] Jae: oh my god sorry so we've been joined by uh adam tonight jack who's back in the
[2749.9] Jae: uh hello and uh nj tank thank you very much it's been a pleasure having you on the show
[2756.3] Jack: thank you yeah thank you very much for the uh insight did you want me to send you my uh
[2762.22] Jack: uh oh my god and i what was yes should we should we send him a um a multi-wee board
[2772.06] Jae: no keep going guys i have one that we can force him to build
[2776.78] Jack: no don't make a fabulous key ring i've got a multi-wee i've got a multi-wee flip
[2782.54] Adam: prospective youtube subscribers should know that nj tech is only just short of his 2000th
[2789.02] Adam: subscriber so i'm sure he'll offer you some sort of reward as well yes we are we are indeed looking
[2794.54] NJ: into uh a 2000 subscriber reward i should just very quickly say a big shout out to uh mark turner
[2801.18] NJ: who is um he's he was my actually my first uh my first real sponsor really uh fantastic chat
[2808.86] NJ: that actually works in the formula one sector um doing 3d parts for formula one cars uh for
[2814.86] NJ: for reno williams and the likes and he's accorded enthusiasts who i got in contact selling some
[2820.62] NJ: some prints on ebay and i literally said to him i love these but wouldn't it be good if you could
[2825.82] NJ: adjust it here here and here um being outspoken as i was and there was the birth of our relationship
[2832.06] NJ: and we've uh since been uh putting together and designing some some very nice bespoke 3d printed
[2840.14] NJ: mounts for qav uh and and other frames as well for for hd camera mount so that's mark at f1pvtech.com
[2849.1] NJ: um so uh yeah big shout out to him yeah awesome all right i think we have to
[2854.46] Adam: secede our air so um sure you can just now i'm gonna say goodbye yeah thank you jay do you
[2861.9] Jae: want to see us out properly sorry i know thanks for listening everyone thanks to our guests tonight
[2866.78] Jae: and uh thank you for yeah you've been listening to let's join out can i can i just ask though
[2872.46] Jack: was the keyring joke a uh radio c joke it wasn't a radio c joke don't forget our sponsors radio c
[2884.54] Jack: and the offer code ldo for five percent off i think i think that still works i'm not too sure
[2892.22] Jack: and it's free shipping when you set the spend a certain amount thank you you've been listening
[2897.9] Jack: to let's join out hannah you're up next thank you and good night telemetry lost