=== Let's Drone Out — Episode 61 ===
Title: Episode 61 Halloween special Ft Quad Mcfly
Recorded: 2016-10-27
Hosts: Jack "Brightontillifly" Nash, Tony "TheTonstar1" Marchant
Guest(s): Quad Mcfly
Total audience: 3,541
Platforms: YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3YSDRB2pbM); SoundCloud (http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/feeds.soundcloud.com/stream/295538257-letsdroneout-episode-60halloween-special-ft-quad-mcfly.mp3)
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we are going to read off so much data about esc's and trust test results from motors!

Guest: Quad Mcfly Rhyan https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCm0kZXa7y-fLitYiXOqJETA
Co-Hoast: Tony https://www.youtube.com/user/TheTonstar1
Host: Jack https://www.youtube.com/user/brightontillifly

[0.66] Jack: Let's drone out
[29.87] Tony: Why are we dressed like this? Why why have you made me dress like this Jack?
[34.95] Jack: Because it's Halloween
[38.75] Tony: Scary I just actually look like I'm out of a 90s rave
[43.95] Quad Mcfly: Are we at an electronic music festival and somebody didn't buy me
[47.91] Tony: Jack gave me two minutes to get ready. So this is my two minutes. I'm hot. Can I take this? Yeah
[53.95] Jack: Yeah, I immediately ripped mine off
[56.75] Jack: Right, so we are joined by a scary Tony or 90s rave Tony say hello time
[62.83] Jack: He's not he can't hear me
[66.23] Jack: Yeah, we were joined by a scary 90s raving Tony what's up and
[72.23] Jack: Our special guest quad McFly. Hey guys, right. So unfortunately, I don't know whether I should do this, but
[81.03] Jack: Unfortunately, we've lost someone dear to us and that is Jay's dad
[84.67] Jack: So I'd like to dedicate this episode to him and that's why he's not here. So
[90.63] Jack: So anyway quad McFly you might all Ryan
[94.47] Jack: You may not know that back in the early days of let's go now
[98.47] Jack: Um, I once read on an episode your list of the SCs, you know
[103.91] Jack: The RC time at ones
[106.03] Jack: with the SN 20s and everything and you did like a little table and have thrust tests and I was reading it out and I
[112.95] Jack: Was with Jay he couldn't be here today
[114.87] Jack: but this is what this episodes made for this was going to be his worst nightmare where I sit there and
[121.75] Jack: read out
[123.39] Jack: Your data sheets and because after on that episode I read out your your list of data and I was like, yep
[129.67] Jack: The cobras I generate the most thrusts with the the X Nova like, you know, and he was like after I read everything out
[138.15] Jack: He was just like great. We've got no listeners. Everyone's in a coma
[143.27] Jack: Everyone's asleep. So
[145.67] Jack: You were quite influential at the beginning of let's go now and I don't know what episode it is
[150.75] Jack: if anyone knows please write it in the chat, but
[154.19] Jack: Yep, believe it or not. You're a big name on this show
[159.75] Jack: Well, I was completely unaware so that's that's good to know. So I hear that you've got a HD cam now
[167.71] Quad Mcfly: Yes
[169.27] Quad Mcfly: interesting story on that one I
[171.51] Quad Mcfly: That was I gotta be honest that totally totally blew me away
[176.75] Quad Mcfly: I was not expecting that so should I tell the story? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, please
[183.71] Quad Mcfly: Okay, so I was chatting with
[186.71] Quad Mcfly: Richard from multi-copter builders about motor tests that I had just done on one of his new motors and I was
[195.19] Quad Mcfly: We were talking about the best props for that given, you know particular motor and I said, well, you know
[200.35] Quad Mcfly: The this one prop is pretty good. So I I'd linked it to a video
[203.99] Quad Mcfly: I posted on my youtube channel, which was of course SD because I haven't flown HD up until recently and
[211.91] Quad Mcfly: Richard was like, why are you sending me this crap?
[216.27] Quad Mcfly: So I I basically, you know was like well, you know
[220.23] Quad Mcfly: HD cameras are expensive and I'm not sure I'm ready to invest in something like that when there's so many things that are
[226.11] Quad Mcfly: Pertinent to flying that I can spend my money on and things are a little tight
[231.23] Quad Mcfly: So he's like well, man, we got to fix that so of course he goes and posts in miniquad Club
[235.51] Quad Mcfly: Hey, let's help a brother out and
[238.03] Quad Mcfly: within
[239.63] Quad Mcfly: I'd say within about eight hours. I had
[242.59] Quad Mcfly: $500 worth of donations
[245.07] Quad Mcfly: To get me a an HD camera. I was just totally blown away
[249.39] Quad Mcfly: Not you know, I would I did not expect that and would never ask ask for that kind of thing
[256.39] Quad Mcfly: But it's been it's been nice. So anybody who donated here's the the results
[262.31] Quad Mcfly: There's there's my lovely HD camera attached to
[267.07] Quad Mcfly: my my freestyle quad and also big shout out to Tim Nelson for
[272.83] Quad Mcfly: For the frame on that one
[276.83] Jack: No
[278.83] Jack: What frame is it?
[280.83] Quad Mcfly: This is the qavr 5-inch
[285.03] Quad Mcfly: So Tim Nelson from good FPV gave me that frame as well
[290.07] Jack: Yep, if you haven't figured it out, Tony didn't know who you are. He's like caught up. So
[297.27] Jack: bless him
[298.35] Tony: So I knew he was a testing guy, but I got him mixed up with the is it quad moves. Yeah
[306.75] Tony: Freestyle
[313.59] Quad Mcfly: You know, I'd like to think that I've been improving recently, but no quad mover is a ridiculous quad mover, that's it
[321.75] Tony: That's who I thought were you?
[323.75] Tony: I know who you are. Jack's just been an arse. Yeah, I know
[328.15] Quad Mcfly: Sorry, actually, I think Tony you were one of the ones who contributed for my GoPro if I remember correctly
[333.07] Jack: You might have been oh, wow. Look at Tony. I didn't know if anyone had plus I'm I've got no money, but there you go
[342.83] Quad Mcfly: Because we're spending it all on pieces that actually keep us in the air. Yeah, I know
[347.19] Jack: What are you running on you quad anyway, because I'm sure everyone wants to know they want to know your kids
[352.31] Quad Mcfly: Honestly, I run whatever I have extras of from testing
[356.31] Quad Mcfly: So I'm not very picky on the equipment this this particular setup is
[363.43] Quad Mcfly: Tornado t2's 20 to 6 2300 KV
[367.19] Quad Mcfly: Akon version 230 amps the you know, the the new ones with the new capacitors. Yep, you're ready to show on that. Yeah
[375.55] Quad Mcfly: Not yet. I haven't had a chance to actually download that and flash it
[379.07] Quad Mcfly: I've just been kind of dealing with what's on here for now
[381.79] Quad Mcfly: I'm planning on doing that for sure within the next little bit here
[386.51] Quad Mcfly: So running I know I know don't hate me. I'm running spectrum. So I've got the
[397.83] Quad Mcfly: Horrors
[399.83] Quad Mcfly: but I'm running the
[401.95] Quad Mcfly: the
[403.31] Quad Mcfly: Orange RX the R620 X series that has the s bus output and
[408.47] Quad Mcfly: Supports analog telemetry so I get the voice alerts on my radio
[414.27] Quad Mcfly: Running I will see what camera is this this is the arrow version 1 which don't get me started on that
[421.35] Quad Mcfly: buying that one
[423.15] Quad Mcfly: But it works and so it's in here
[426.27] Quad Mcfly: hub OSD the the eco X version
[430.87] Quad Mcfly: with the thing out the side instead of
[434.71] Jack: Instead of like that long one. What do you mean? What the
[439.35] Jack: What don't you like time?
[441.51] Tony: It looks like it could get cool and broke easy
[445.11] Quad Mcfly: Well, yeah, that's why I you can see I always solder a length of wire on there
[449.35] Quad Mcfly: I got it. I never direct side of the X-T60s
[453.87] Quad Mcfly: Yeah, that very reason actually
[455.87] Quad Mcfly: but
[458.99] Quad Mcfly: Transmitter is is the hobby king one the quantum Q
[466.71] Quad Mcfly: Q58 this is the
[470.51] Quad Mcfly: 400 milliwatt version
[472.51] Quad Mcfly: That one for freestyle and Fox ear antenna
[477.11] Quad Mcfly: Just basic stuff. Like I said, most of it's whatever I have extras of from testing
[482.03] Quad Mcfly: I
[483.39] Quad Mcfly: Run in the
[485.19] Quad Mcfly: These are the Dow 5045
[487.87] Quad Mcfly: Hybrid bullnose props, which let me tell you those were a real pain in the rear end to tune for a freestyle quad
[496.79] Quad Mcfly: The Dow 5045 HBN tries
[501.43] Quad Mcfly: the they have such a slow transition speed that
[505.87] Quad Mcfly: You really have to compensate for that in the tune pretty dramatically for freestyle for racing. It doesn't really matter
[511.33] Quad Mcfly: Because you're not, you know, you're not expecting crisp crisp stops when you're racing but drives me nuts in freestyle
[518.93] Quad Mcfly: Some really interesting graphs of that if you
[523.49] Quad Mcfly: I'm looking forward to the new Dow props the cyclones. Yes. I actually they should be delivered to me tomorrow
[530.69] Quad Mcfly: Thanks
[534.25] Tony: He's gonna send mine before the weekend from my drone
[538.77] Jack: He's got a lot in I think yep, sorry, I'll just have a look Brad is why Sheldon the man
[544.41] Jack: I want to know the arrow one. Haha, it's
[548.45] Jack: Great racing though. Yeah, VTS are okay, but quality and picture disappoints
[553.85] Jack: He threw a
[556.05] Jack: TBS camera at me the other day. He hated that as well
[560.69] Jack: Hang on. Let me just go back on cam Brad has only likes lumineer cameras
[568.29] Quad Mcfly: Aren't the lumineers just rebranded from other brands. Yeah TBS zero zero. Yeah, that one's that one's a rebrand, too
[579.57] Jack: I'm quite happy with the HS 117 and then the what is it the MX whatever, you know, the
[586.33] Jack: 1200
[587.37] Quad Mcfly: TVL one I haven't tried to be the high resolution one yet
[590.73] Quad Mcfly: I just haven't I've got run cam Swift's on pretty much everything else just because I really like the way the mounting works on it
[597.25] Quad Mcfly: I want the double like throws the metal screw brackets the metal screw holders make a big difference
[602.77] Quad Mcfly: But mostly like I said, just whatever I have laying around
[606.73] Quad Mcfly: Pinky about equipment Oh flight controller on this bad boy, and I'm running these on almost everything is the
[612.81] Quad Mcfly: this is the flip 32 f4 the
[616.29] Quad Mcfly: the the newer f4 version of the flip 32 called the revo
[621.41] Quad Mcfly: It's it's based on the revo. It's the same pin layout for the for the CPU for the MCU
[628.41] Quad Mcfly: But it's a slightly different actual layout on the you know
[631.73] Quad Mcfly: It doesn't have the those stupid blade connectors that I absolutely hate and and it's just got actual through-hole solder connections and everything
[639.21] Quad Mcfly: And it's like I got them three for 19 bucks each. So, you know
[644.29] Jack: And you have to flash it with a do you know, sorry, that's an old reference joke
[649.21] Jack: Trust me. Hey anyone knows what that's all about
[652.65] Quad Mcfly: My first quad was a was a flip 32 1.5 or flip not a flip there to a flip 1.5
[659.01] Quad Mcfly: The Arduino that's actually believe it or not
[661.89] Quad Mcfly: That's how I got into quads is because I was into Arduino and robotics before
[667.33] Quad Mcfly: Quadcopters, so I it was kind of a natural transition for me. I started looking around and I was like, oh, hey look
[673.57] Quad Mcfly: This is based on Arduino. That's easy. So I
[679.09] Jack: Yeah, what do you mean I have to download drivers doing stills
[684.77] Jack: You know, I'm sorry. Sorry tiny
[687.77] Tony: So you like the has anyone tried the new Fox here? Is it Eagle?
[694.89] Tony: The Eagle. Yeah, I haven't tried that one yet either. It's really good. But it's got a bit a bit more latency
[701.53] Quad Mcfly: Yeah, that's what always makes me nervous
[703.05] Quad Mcfly: I mean, I'm so happy with the with the HS 117 and all the derivatives of that that that whole Sony
[709.89] Quad Mcfly: You know the super had to line
[712.21] Quad Mcfly: I'm not really honestly looking for much else if you want HD you have a recording camera, I guess right? I
[720.73] Quad Mcfly: Do find the the connex interesting that I actually got a chance to try that at flight fest
[729.05] Quad Mcfly: Last year
[730.53] Quad Mcfly: This year, but you know this last flight fest that just happened
[734.37] Quad Mcfly: And that was that was that was interesting. I I thought it was a
[739.13] Quad Mcfly: Unfortunately, I only got to fly the in HQ mode because that's all they had it set up for at the time
[745.21] Quad Mcfly: And I definitely noticed the latency coming around, you know, I almost nailed a gate going through I tried to run the tsunami
[753.17] Quad Mcfly: Time trial with it and that the two gates back to back at the top. I almost just
[758.01] Quad Mcfly: Because I couldn't you know, I almost hit it before I saw it
[761.89] Quad Mcfly: but that was with the
[765.13] Quad Mcfly: The use not the music's the other ones the
[769.21] Quad Mcfly: Weird headphone things. Yeah, the weird headphone things and I think I had a really interesting conversation afterwards with some of the the guys
[776.89] Quad Mcfly: who were there from
[780.53] Quad Mcfly: Who were there from the the actual connex company
[784.97] Quad Mcfly: Ammon and
[786.57] Quad Mcfly: They said that a lot of the latency issues they were having were actually related to the HDMI input on the headsets
[791.93] Quad Mcfly: Not handling the HQ mode very well and then actually introducing latency
[796.97] Quad Mcfly: past the transmitter or the
[801.29] Quad Mcfly: So I thought that was interesting
[803.33] Quad Mcfly: so I'll be curious to see as the technology progresses if the the manufacturers who do the actual HD side of the
[811.01] Quad Mcfly: You know the eyeball side of things
[813.33] Quad Mcfly: Can maximize the the efficiency and reduce the latency actually on the input side. I
[820.13] Quad Mcfly: Hope so. I'm not sure if they're doing something
[824.29] Jack: Who knows who knows what they're up to because they just released the HD V3 seven. Yeah
[830.37] Quad Mcfly: I've heard really good things about those having a chance to try them yet
[833.41] Quad Mcfly: Are they HD though, or do they just call themselves HD, right HD compared to what I suppose? Yeah. Yeah
[840.97] Jack: I don't know though. I mean look as long as they sort out that the optic problem
[845.93] Jack: You know, that's a step in the right direction and the field of view is even larger
[852.49] Quad Mcfly: With a couple of guys who have flown them
[855.01] Quad Mcfly: They seem to have significantly reduced the the distortion around the edges and the HD V3s
[860.57] Quad Mcfly: So or the HD 3 is whatever they're calling them
[864.49] Quad Mcfly: So I'll be curious to see I the the version ones in version twos just did not fit my head, right?
[869.45] Quad Mcfly: I got that, you know, you get them on and you just can't get your eyeballs the right distance from the lenses to get it
[874.61] Quad Mcfly: To actually work, right? So I guess I have a weird head. I guess I
[878.93] Quad Mcfly: Just I haven't moved from the Dom
[881.89] Quad Mcfly: V2. Yeah, that's what I run that's I haven't I haven't seen the need to move
[886.93] Quad Mcfly: You know the the SCs were interesting because they had everything except the HDMI input and we're basically the same price
[895.09] Quad Mcfly: so
[897.73] Quad Mcfly: But yeah, I haven't really seen the I'm not gonna go 16 by 9 I don't really want I don't want to do that
[904.85] Tony: Plus I like the plastic cups where it doesn't let any light in I don't like all this foam face plate
[911.17] Quad Mcfly: I haven't actually tried the foam face plate. I mean they make the adapter right for the for the V2s, but
[918.81] Quad Mcfly: It's been on my list to get eventually but again, it's one of those things. That's not keeping me in the air
[925.49] Tony: Yeah, I personally don't like it. You get a lot coming in and
[931.65] Quad Mcfly: well, I actually punched a bunch of holes with a
[934.65] Quad Mcfly: With you know, like a punch along the bottom edge of my my cups
[939.81] Quad Mcfly: My eye cups because I was getting really bad fogging when I first got them and that basically
[945.17] Quad Mcfly: Completely eliminated the fogging except for some very very extreme circumstances
[949.65] Quad Mcfly: So I get a little bit more light leak because of that then then they do come stock
[954.69] Quad Mcfly: But it solved my problem and I've never
[957.45] Quad Mcfly: Never actually
[960.09] Tony: Is it's fogging and again, but I normally put them on my head to warm up
[965.37] Tony: Or I fly for like five minutes and then it's normally all right. I'm normally haven't got sweaty eyeballs. I
[973.77] Jack: Have died. I thought you know my donvie ones, you know, I'm a big guy. I've sweat a lot
[979.73] Jack: And like no one needs to know that but yeah like now and again
[983.81] Jack: Out in the summer like put my goggles down and it would just be like a swimming pool in there, man
[990.21] Jack: You need eyeball deodorant. Yeah, that's it. Like spray my face with actual deodorant
[995.41] Jack: I know so I moved I moved to the dom v3s because I missed the dom the v1s, but the
[1003.01] Jack: third edition
[1004.53] Jack: mark three
[1005.97] Jack: whatever that means and
[1008.21] Jack: Apparently there was three iterations of those
[1011.57] Jack: So yeah, I bought I bought them missed out on the dom v2s and then went straight to the dom v3s
[1018.53] Jack: But you know, I I would love I'd love to get a set of hdv 3s
[1022.69] Jack: But they're going to be so much money, you know, especially in the uk
[1026.85] Jack: You know, that is a lot of coke and whores
[1029.57] Quad Mcfly: I'm not even worried about you guys know right with the exchange rate. Oh my work
[1033.25] Jack: Yeah, we have totally screwed and then you've possibly heard about the es a
[1040.29] Jack: S a
[1042.29] Jack: I don't know tony. What what's he called?
[1044.85] Jack: What what are we talking about? You know the guys who want to regulate and you know
[1048.77] Tony: Note the prototype laws and all that sort of stuff. Yeah, I know what you mean, but I can't say es
[1053.87] Tony: esr or something. Yeah
[1056.93] Tony: That's what I call them
[1058.61] Jack: Fantastic got bleep that later. Well done tony
[1061.81] Jack: So, yeah as you can imagine I don't know whether you've heard the news on that I haven't read the new
[1067.09] Tony: um
[1067.97] Tony: think the new proposal that they've
[1071.41] Jack: There isn't it's just a review that they've heard a lot they've had a lot back
[1074.69] Jack: Do you want me to ryan? Do you want me to post you a link so you can quickly skim over it?
[1079.41] Jack: Yeah, sure. Okay. All right. Hang on. Let me just find a link
[1083.33] Jack: Um, what what was I gonna say? Uh, right this asks you some generic questions like, you know, hey, what's your um
[1090.29] Jack: What's been your favorite most reliable bit of kit or what have you modified lately or from a list of questions over here?
[1098.61] Tony: Don't you know youtube is that you're running
[1101.97] Quad Mcfly: Yeah, well i've got too many quads probably how many running a huge a huge range of motors
[1108.29] Quad Mcfly: I've i've kind of settled on 2206s is my favorite
[1112.13] Quad Mcfly: I really like the high torque motors. Just they feel so much better to me in the air. Um
[1117.97] Quad Mcfly: The response time for you know, a lot of people underestimate the the
[1123.41] Quad Mcfly: The response time when it comes to how a quad handles in the air
[1126.85] Quad Mcfly: um, you know how fast can that
[1129.17] Quad Mcfly: propeller change speeds from one speed to the other it makes a massive difference in how well the pit controller can compensate for
[1137.01] Quad Mcfly: The things around it so outside forces
[1139.89] Quad Mcfly: So a high torque motor on a on a lighter weight prop
[1143.81] Quad Mcfly: Is going to give you very different handling characteristics from a heavy prop on a low torque motor
[1149.17] Quad Mcfly: Which is often what we see a lot of times. I mean you see a lot of guys running 2205
[1154.77] Quad Mcfly: You know 2300 kv on on these five by four five by three hbns
[1159.57] Quad Mcfly: And that's a pretty slow prop on a fairly low torque motor. So you're getting pretty pretty
[1165.95] Quad Mcfly: Significant introduced latency just from the time that it takes the motor to react
[1171.17] Quad Mcfly: To go from one speed to another speed
[1174.69] Quad Mcfly: So, you know 20 going to 2206 and in particular, you know high torque 2206s that have strong magnets good air gap
[1182.93] Quad Mcfly: um
[1183.81] Quad Mcfly: And and can really push push that out
[1187.57] Quad Mcfly: Even you know things like the 0.15 millimeter laminations over 0.2
[1192.13] Quad Mcfly: All of that makes a difference in the torque a motor can produce
[1194.85] Quad Mcfly: Which makes a difference in how fast that prop can change speeds
[1198.13] Quad Mcfly: And on you on top of that you you change your propeller choice to something that's going to give you a faster response time
[1204.61] Quad Mcfly: And the difference in handling between a 2206
[1207.89] Quad Mcfly: You know 2300 kv on a five by four by four
[1211.09] Quad Mcfly: Versus a 2205
[1213.39] Quad Mcfly: 2300 kv on the five by four five by three hbns. It's a totally different experience
[1218.85] Quad Mcfly: I mean you you would not it's just it blows you away when you fly them back to back
[1224.05] Quad Mcfly: the difference in
[1225.49] Quad Mcfly: Handling and the difference in and crispness, you know again for a racer
[1229.17] Quad Mcfly: It doesn't matter that much because you know
[1231.25] Quad Mcfly: You're you're flying at pretty high throttle through most of the course you're turning fast and it does make a difference there and prop wash
[1237.73] Quad Mcfly: And some of those characteristics, but where it really makes the biggest difference is when you're doing
[1242.93] Quad Mcfly: Maneuvers where you want to um have very crisp?
[1246.77] Quad Mcfly: Stops, so for me, I like to do a lot of um, you know
[1249.81] Quad Mcfly: Like where you you do a flip and you just stop dead right in the middle of the flip
[1254.37] Quad Mcfly: Especially when you're carrying a lot of mass like a gopro when you're doing that that maneuver
[1259.49] Quad Mcfly: It has to react very quickly in order to make that crisp that that stop a crisp stop
[1264.77] Quad Mcfly: So what you get if you've got uh, you know a lower torque motor or even just simply
[1269.49] Quad Mcfly: A slower speed prop even on a high torque motor like these five by four five by threes
[1274.37] Quad Mcfly: Is it wants to go past and then come back?
[1278.21] Quad Mcfly: So it's not necessarily an oscillation like you get with low d because it even happens with very high d
[1284.21] Quad Mcfly: In fact high d can sometimes emphasize it. So what happens is you get this
[1288.69] Quad Mcfly: Like it like it slaps you when when it when it flips. Yeah, so the only way around that is to either
[1295.97] Quad Mcfly: Adjust your tune so that it's not making that heart of a slap
[1300.53] Quad Mcfly: Or you know, which then you lose stick feel sometimes depending on how you do it
[1305.41] Quad Mcfly: Or change to a a combination that's going to produce faster changes in rpm
[1311.81] Quad Mcfly: So sorry, I kind of took off there on that one
[1315.09] Jack: No, that's that's what we want. That's what you're here for
[1318.85] Quad Mcfly: So that's my you know
[1319.73] Quad Mcfly: The the the high torque motors lightweight props the five by four by four is on on a good 2206 2300 kv are
[1326.37] Quad Mcfly: Probably one of my favorite setups
[1329.09] Quad Mcfly: honestly
[1330.05] Quad Mcfly: If you want to know the truth about why i'm running these it's because they were the only set of purple props I had
[1335.17] Quad Mcfly: and
[1335.97] Quad Mcfly: Create a deck sent me the the purple version of this
[1339.81] Quad Mcfly: Thing with the purple esc covers and I was like, well, you gotta have purple all the way, right? You go
[1345.41] Quad Mcfly: You can't do it halfway
[1348.61] Jack: So much the handbag and the shoes
[1351.49] Jack: That's right
[1353.49] Quad Mcfly: So that was uh, that was pretty much my motivation there and honestly, I was curious to see if I could tune it out
[1358.69] Quad Mcfly: um
[1359.65] Quad Mcfly: You know tune out the the the extra weight on those props
[1364.13] Quad Mcfly: I was finally able to I don't know if you saw my last video on youtube, but i'm pretty pleased with the tune that came out
[1369.81] Quad Mcfly: um
[1371.33] Quad Mcfly: But how I had to get there kind of surprised me a little bit
[1375.25] Quad Mcfly: I basically had to slide the set point slider in beta flight all the way to the left
[1381.09] Quad Mcfly: So that basically it's the old measure not all the way
[1383.33] Quad Mcfly: I mean i'm maybe three quarters of the way through on the left side
[1386.13] Quad Mcfly: So it's geared more towards the old measurement style of the compensation
[1390.23] Quad Mcfly: And then the uh, the transition slider is all the way to the right and based on
[1394.23] Quad Mcfly: Based on what I was reading about all of that. I was expecting the transition slider to be more to the left
[1400.07] Quad Mcfly: Um, and that actually ended up making it worse. Um, it finally got better when I split them
[1405.91] Quad Mcfly: You know opposite ends and uh, I think it's pretty much solved the problem
[1410.55] Quad Mcfly: So there the tune is is good. I can still feel the difference between uh
[1415.11] Quad Mcfly: Between the response on the five by four by fours and the five by four fives by three hbns
[1419.99] Quad Mcfly: But it's a lot less pronounced than it than it was and and it's a tune that's totally flyable
[1425.03] Quad Mcfly: It's just actually a blast to fly. So
[1427.43] Jack: Cody beast
[1429.75] Jack: One nine eight five. Where can you get the best efficiency?
[1434.31] Quad Mcfly: That's an interesting question. Actually any efficiency in
[1438.23] Quad Mcfly: When it comes to motors is is kind of an odd question because what we're looking at
[1443.59] Quad Mcfly: oftentimes people confuse
[1445.83] Quad Mcfly: Top throttle current draw with efficiency and that's not efficiency is actually, you know a ratio
[1451.67] Quad Mcfly: It's not just a solid number. So if you're looking in terms of grams per watt
[1456.71] Quad Mcfly: Some of these really super powerful motors aren't that inefficient?
[1460.07] Quad Mcfly: But they draw insane amounts of current at the top of the throttle just because they're also drawn
[1465.11] Quad Mcfly: You know putting out huge amounts of thrust so in terms of grams per watt
[1469.91] Quad Mcfly: They're not that inefficient, but they're going to kill your batteries
[1473.27] Quad Mcfly: So when you're asking about efficiency the question becomes are you talking about grams per watt? Are you talking about amps?
[1479.75] Quad Mcfly: Because those are two very different questions
[1482.79] Jack: That's always a trade-off
[1484.63] Quad Mcfly: right, um, and the truth is that if you look at some of these super powerful motors like the zmx fusion or the t2s or
[1492.23] Quad Mcfly: You know any of these motors that are like top of the shelf power if you actually compare
[1497.59] Quad Mcfly: At a specific thrust point
[1499.59] Quad Mcfly: To some of the weaker motors like one of the ones that everybody always talks about being efficient is the the luminaire 2206
[1505.33] Quad Mcfly: 2350s, right? They say oh, they're super efficient motors
[1509.35] Quad Mcfly: but if you look at the thrust point the the luminaires put out about you know, maybe
[1514.71] Quad Mcfly: a little over a kilogram of thrust on a five by four by three
[1518.95] Quad Mcfly: At just over 20 amps like 20 21 22 amps, but if you look at um
[1524.95] Quad Mcfly: If you look at like say the zmx fusion
[1528.95] Quad Mcfly: Yeah, it's putting out like 1300 grams of thrust
[1532.55] Quad Mcfly: at
[1533.27] Quad Mcfly: You know 30 amps
[1535.03] Quad Mcfly: On a five by on the same prop
[1538.31] Quad Mcfly: And so you think oh, this is a wildly inefficient motor, right? I mean 30 amps versus 21 amps is insane
[1544.47] Quad Mcfly: But then if you look at the actual data and you pull it back so that you're looking at
[1549.27] Quad Mcfly: You know
[1551.59] Quad Mcfly: Just over a kilogram of of thrust
[1554.07] Quad Mcfly: You'll see the same x is hitting like 19 amps. Yeah, so it's better. So it's actually way more efficient
[1561.91] Quad Mcfly: There's a lot of ways you can kind of tell that um, so
[1565.99] Quad Mcfly: what
[1567.35] Quad Mcfly: What's going to be the most efficient motor?
[1569.67] Quad Mcfly: And this is really interesting you kind of saw this in the zmx version 3s
[1573.83] Quad Mcfly: Um or the brother hobby returner r3 is whichever you want to call them. Uh,
[1578.39] Quad Mcfly: We won't get into that whole mess
[1580.47] Quad Mcfly: um
[1581.51] Quad Mcfly: the uh
[1582.87] Quad Mcfly: The they had the 21 50 kv
[1585.67] Quad Mcfly: the 21 40 kv and the um
[1588.47] Quad Mcfly: And the 2300 kv. So the 2300 kv put out significantly more
[1593.59] Quad Mcfly: Um thrust then again, we'll use that luminaire just as an example because it's a popular motor
[1598.63] Quad Mcfly: Um than the luminaire, but if you looked at the 21 40 kv
[1603.11] Quad Mcfly: It's basically, you know over 100 kv less than that 23 50 kv luminaire
[1609.83] Quad Mcfly: But it basically matched or even exceeded slightly the thrust output of the luminaire at even better efficiency
[1617.19] Quad Mcfly: So when you start dealing with stronger magnets, you know closer air gaps
[1622.31] Quad Mcfly: All of these things that make motors more powerful on the top end
[1625.75] Quad Mcfly: What it allows you to do if you're looking for efficiency is scale back the kv get the same
[1631.19] Quad Mcfly: Actual performance with faster response times and better efficiency
[1635.83] Quad Mcfly: So when it comes to efficiency, you know a high torque lower kv motor that's the same weight
[1641.99] Quad Mcfly: You know like 28 grams is is a good
[1644.15] Quad Mcfly: It's a great weight for efficiency because it reduces the overall weight of your craft
[1647.99] Quad Mcfly: Less weight at the other the ends of the arms. So the pig controllers having to do less work
[1652.23] Quad Mcfly: um
[1653.67] Quad Mcfly: But all of that, you know all that plays a role together and and the lower kv
[1658.47] Quad Mcfly: Uh motors are actually putting out as much or more power than the high kv or mid-range kv 2300 kv
[1665.11] Quad Mcfly: motors from
[1666.39] Quad Mcfly: You know six months ago
[1668.07] Quad Mcfly: And they're doing it with better efficiency. So and even more so as you move up in stator size
[1673.03] Quad Mcfly: So we're looking at some of these new 2207s that are coming out like zmx fusion has a 2207
[1678.55] Quad Mcfly: There's a bunch of 2207s on the market
[1680.47] Quad Mcfly: So if you go even further about that 2207 that if you can get the weight down, that's the trick of the 2207
[1687.03] Quad Mcfly: Get the weight down
[1688.47] Quad Mcfly: Your efficiency is going to be absolutely fantastic
[1690.47] Jack: That's it. But the thing is with the with getting the weight down. It's like the emacs red bombs. They are made of cheese
[1699.99] Jack: You know like you you hit something and they just
[1703.75] Jack: That's it. They bend in
[1705.83] Jack: Magnets hit the stator they get all grindy ruins. You know, it's loads of vibration horrible
[1713.67] Quad Mcfly: Part of the magnet's hitting the stator is because these days the air gap between the stator and the magnets is so tight
[1719.51] Quad Mcfly: The emacs in particular are I mean i'd say the emacs are pretty well built when it comes to actual structural integrity
[1725.11] Quad Mcfly: I mean you hit any qualities there
[1727.19] Quad Mcfly: It's going to it's going to break but the problem with the emacs is that their tolerances are so tight
[1734.79] Quad Mcfly: that any small change makes uh, you know makes an impact in the
[1739.83] Quad Mcfly: In the like you'll end up scraping the stators because the gap between the stators and the magnets is already so tight
[1746.07] Quad Mcfly: That there's really no room for any flex at all in that now the the the emacs
[1751.67] Quad Mcfly: S motors that are just coming out are going to largely solve that because they have a four millimeter internal shaft
[1757.19] Quad Mcfly: So they're going to be able to take a hit
[1758.79] Quad Mcfly: I think 90 of the damage to the emacs rss was when the shaft slightly bent and then those things would start scraping
[1765.59] Quad Mcfly: Yeah
[1766.79] Quad Mcfly: So the form switching to a four millimeter shaft that's going to be a lot less prone to bending especially with it being hollow
[1773.43] Quad Mcfly: um
[1774.31] Quad Mcfly: is uh
[1775.59] Quad Mcfly: The way that you know the way that a force is distributed around the shaft
[1779.03] Quad Mcfly: It's going to be a lot less likely to bend
[1780.71] Quad Mcfly: So I think I think we'll see a pretty significant rise in the durability of of the the motors with the I mean
[1786.23] Quad Mcfly: We already have but particularly in the emacs switching to that four millimeter hollow shaft. They should be out soon. Didn't they the emacs?
[1794.79] Quad Mcfly: So, I mean you got to give emacs credit for for taking the criticisms on the s mode on the rs mode of the original rs
[1800.79] Quad Mcfly: And responding with the the the second s series. I think they did a good job of reacting to
[1806.79] Quad Mcfly: Reacting to customer input on that one. Definitely
[1809.83] Tony: But then they were the big jump everyone was emacs red bottoms get them get them get them
[1816.47] Jack: Yeah, they've become a staple
[1818.55] Jack: They're you know, they are
[1820.55] Jack: You know, they are the cobra motors. They are yeah for sure. They they totally changed the game
[1826.07] Quad Mcfly: I mean it was it blew my mind when when emacs first came out with that motor. I was not expecting it at all
[1832.31] Quad Mcfly: Sam su contacted me and was like hey, we've got a new motor coming out
[1835.03] Quad Mcfly: Will you test it and I said sure and so he sent it over and I put that thing on the stand
[1840.31] Quad Mcfly: And you have to remember at that point
[1842.47] Quad Mcfly: Cobra was king the cobra 2205 2300 kv was it there was nothing else and the cobra
[1849.03] Quad Mcfly: We were all like how does the cobra get so much thrust? Why could no one beat them?
[1852.55] Quad Mcfly: Everybody comes out with motors and no one can beat the cobra. What's their secret?
[1856.15] Quad Mcfly: And then emacs out of the blue just plops this thing on my desk
[1860.79] Quad Mcfly: and I I put that thing on the stand and I remember just giggling like
[1865.83] Quad Mcfly: When I saw those numbers hit the uh hit the hit the screen I was just blown away
[1871.11] Quad Mcfly: And you know, you really made me take a second look like what is making this motor so good?
[1875.19] Quad Mcfly: And because you know people say whatever they want about that
[1877.83] Quad Mcfly: Oh, yeah, this has whatever magnets and and I was I didn't necessarily believe the marketing hype on the the n52 magnets
[1884.87] Quad Mcfly: Until I put that thing on the stand
[1887.35] Quad Mcfly: But it definitely lived up to the hype on that one. I mean it totally changed the game
[1891.99] Quad Mcfly: It forced a revolution in motor design. It did no one saw coming
[1896.31] Tony: No, because everyone wanted cobra didn't they everyone?
[1900.39] Tony: Yeah
[1901.19] Tony: Till they started problems until they had quality issues. Yeah, right. Yeah
[1906.31] Tony: And that is perfect for emacs
[1909.11] Quad Mcfly: Honestly, I feel like you know looking at it from my perspective. I feel like a lot of the qc issues were a little overblown
[1914.39] Quad Mcfly: Simply because there were so many people who had them. I mean emacs produced
[1920.53] Quad Mcfly: Thousands and thousands of these motors and and they're just ubiquitous
[1925.83] Quad Mcfly: so when you get that kind of volume you're gonna have problems and I think that a lot of there were a lot of vocal people who
[1931.75] Quad Mcfly: had problems and
[1933.47] Quad Mcfly: Unfortunately emacs is failing has been in the support side of things. They're not great at dealing with it when or at least traditionally they haven't been
[1941.65] Quad Mcfly: Um, you know when there are problems dealing with their support department has been slow
[1945.41] Quad Mcfly: I know a lot of people have had trouble with that
[1947.41] Quad Mcfly: So but I think still in the in the large scheme of things
[1951.41] Quad Mcfly: The the failure rate of the emacs was not necessarily that high
[1956.13] Quad Mcfly: It's just so cobra
[1958.61] Quad Mcfly: Yeah
[1959.97] Quad Mcfly: You know similar issues with the co well, you know, I don't know the cobra had an awful lot of trouble there for a while
[1965.65] Tony: He had a lot more than that
[1967.81] Quad Mcfly: Yeah, I think it was I think it was that was a significantly worse problem than than what emacs faced
[1973.57] Quad Mcfly: Emacs had a few bad batches. They had some issues with the shafts that were bad in one batch
[1978.29] Quad Mcfly: They had they had a bad batch with the circlips that were that were failing
[1982.85] Quad Mcfly: um, but I mean that was over within a few months, I think
[1987.73] Quad Mcfly: And then of course, you know, they had the high clone rate which those were crap and caused all kinds of problems
[1994.61] Quad Mcfly: But cobra consistently had magnet problems for months
[1999.25] Quad Mcfly: In fact, you know last I heard some of their even more recent batches of the old design
[2003.57] Quad Mcfly: We're still having the magnet problems, but the to be fair the new champion series totally solved that problem
[2010.45] Quad Mcfly: Um, the design is significantly better and I haven't heard any issues with the champion slipping magnets
[2016.53] Quad Mcfly: Um, so i'm not sure what the issue was there. I think the primary issue with cobra and the reason why cobra lost so many
[2022.45] Quad Mcfly: Um supporters and you know, loyal customers was simply the way they handled it
[2026.93] Quad Mcfly: That was kind of a textbook example of bad, uh bad public relations
[2032.13] Jack: And and you had state a gate as well
[2035.97] Quad Mcfly: Oh, right. Yeah, the whole issue with it being 2205 instead of 2204 and labeling it wrong
[2040.53] Quad Mcfly: Yeah, yeah, and again, it's a similar issue there like that didn't necessarily have to be a bad problem
[2045.41] Quad Mcfly: But the way they handled it was bad
[2047.97] Quad Mcfly: It's you know, I I come from my background is in media and and I as part of my undergraduate degree
[2053.17] Quad Mcfly: I took a bunch of public relations classes and literally that is like
[2057.33] Quad Mcfly: The examples that are in the textbook of how not to handle handle a business crisis
[2062.93] Jack: We are your worst nightmare here at let's try now
[2066.45] Jack: We are so like our public
[2069.49] Jack: Relationships, I need to upload some some episodes
[2074.21] Jack: In the chat in the chat someone was like I thought this podcast was dead
[2079.25] Jack: because
[2080.29] Jack: I'm so sorry
[2082.13] Jack: Holy I was I've been waiting for uh, for some files and stuff. I will get on it
[2088.45] Jack: I will be on that is your job tomorrow. Yeah, that's it. Not leave and yeah, maybe
[2095.73] Jack: Maybe like, you know, we could have frank
[2098.85] Jack: And quad McFly just double teaming us and then get getting some efficiency numbers out of me
[2105.97] Tony: What are you guys doing?
[2107.25] Jack: Yeah, yeah, I know. All right. Um, i've got a question that i've been wanting to ask
[2112.21] Jack: Um for people who have just kind of got into the hobby and started picking a few things up. What would
[2119.65] Jack: What would your recommendation?
[2121.89] Jack: Recommendations be now for example
[2125.89] Jack: I'm looking for things where
[2128.37] Jack: They'll last and they'll allow you to grow
[2131.33] Jack: so like if you just sit there and work your way around the quad and be like i'd go for these motors because and then i'd
[2136.85] Jack: go with these eses because
[2139.49] Jack: They've only just come out and they're really good or you know, and you know, whatever just the
[2144.45] Jack: Your safe bet for a really good
[2147.47] Jack: performing
[2149.17] Quad Mcfly: You know, baby. Well, I think you know, I I say this a lot and and it probably gets old after a while
[2155.89] Quad Mcfly: But my my answer to a lot of questions is it depends
[2160.13] Quad Mcfly: Yeah, you know, it depends on what you're looking for and i'm gonna get a lot of hate for this probably
[2164.85] Quad Mcfly: But for a lot of people out there, I honestly think that a ready to fly kit is probably one of the best options
[2172.61] Quad Mcfly: um
[2173.57] Quad Mcfly: I there are some really good ones out there that are really not bad
[2177.49] Quad Mcfly: And not everybody wants to spend hours with a soldering iron and spend hours understanding the the you know
[2183.65] Quad Mcfly: How the firmware uploads work and how to update esc settings and all these things and like I love that stuff
[2189.09] Quad Mcfly: you know, I I live for that I I come from an you know, an engineering background at least partially and
[2195.41] Quad Mcfly: Um, you know that my brain works like that. So for me, that's that's fantastic
[2200.85] Quad Mcfly: um, but not everybody is like that and if
[2203.89] Jack: I think there's a lot of
[2206.77] Quad Mcfly: There's a lot of pressure in this community. I think to kind of conform to that
[2211.47] Quad Mcfly: Stereotype as far as being technical, but I don't think that this hobby has to be that way
[2217.33] Quad Mcfly: um, I think that it's perfectly acceptable for someone to buy a tbs vendetta or uh,
[2223.73] Quad Mcfly: You know the immersion rc. Um, what's their ready to fly one the vortex the vortex?
[2229.89] Quad Mcfly: Yeah, and they're fantastic. They fly great. They take zero effort to uh
[2234.85] Quad Mcfly: Zero effort to set up. I mean the tune you don't have to tune
[2238.21] Quad Mcfly: Because somebody else has already done all that for you
[2241.09] Quad Mcfly: So if you're looking to get into the hobby and you just want to fly and you you want to
[2245.17] Quad Mcfly: You want a quad that's going to go fast and handle well
[2247.97] Quad Mcfly: And you don't want to build everything
[2250.45] Quad Mcfly: then
[2252.29] Quad Mcfly: Don't worry about the stigma about ready to fly packages. I think that they're a fantastic option. Um
[2259.49] Quad Mcfly: And I know there's like I said
[2261.01] Quad Mcfly: There's a lot of people who who kind of feel like that that's the cheater's way out or whatever
[2265.33] Quad Mcfly: But I I really don't have a problem with that
[2268.45] Tony: There's some good ones now. There wasn't a couple of months like six months ago
[2273.73] Quad Mcfly: I mean the the first generation vortex was a little bit rough
[2276.77] Quad Mcfly: um
[2278.37] Quad Mcfly: And that that came out what about a little over a year ago. Yeah
[2281.73] Quad Mcfly: Um, so and that's pretty much all there was for a while
[2284.61] Quad Mcfly: Um, but the second gen vortex and the the vendetta are both fantastic. Um
[2290.69] Quad Mcfly: I know like isheen and some of these others have come out with some ready to fly packages that aren't bad
[2295.49] Quad Mcfly: I'd be hesitant to recommend those simply because
[2298.69] Quad Mcfly: I am not sold necessarily on their long-term
[2303.09] Quad Mcfly: You know how long they're gonna last
[2305.09] Jack: because
[2306.13] Jack: The um, yeah, like for instance the walk here a runner. Oh my word like that
[2311.57] Jack: Really did like miss the the spot and i've i've seen a few people come up with it. I mean, um
[2318.85] Jack: the
[2320.21] Jack: Oh, what was it the the emacs nightfall? That was pretty good
[2326.21] Jack: Yeah, but you know, I mean it it's it it still can stand up to time now
[2331.65] Jack: Do you know what I mean? You can just flash it with beta fly and it will still you could still crank a bit of
[2338.29] Jack: Performance out of it and you know, but it's those escs that are on board. I don't know how you say about flashing those
[2345.25] Jack: Yeah, they're a little bit of a challenge
[2347.25] Jack: Yeah
[2348.37] Quad Mcfly: only so, you know
[2350.37] Quad Mcfly: I would say the first thing to address as in as a newbie into the uh into the hobby
[2355.73] Quad Mcfly: Is what route do you want to take?
[2357.41] Quad Mcfly: Do you want to get into the technical side and learn?
[2360.05] Quad Mcfly: You know escs and custom building and how to use a soldering iron and well
[2363.89] Quad Mcfly: Do all that stuff or do you just want to fly? That's the first question
[2367.17] Jack: yeah, well the only the only downside that I find with ready fly packages is
[2374.69] Jack: There's a kind of flip side to it one where if you buy a ready made package like for instance the company radio c
[2383.33] Jack: they they kind of like assemble theirs and then ship it out and um
[2389.17] Jack: That that's a good way because you can just take the top plate off and you can see which wires go where and that's kind of
[2396.37] Jack: You know, you just take a photo or you copy another arm and and go from there and you can kind of see
[2403.57] Jack: It's it's easier when you've got something physical in front of you and you can you can see it
[2409.81] Jack: And it's it's all there in front of you
[2412.21] Jack: But um, the other side of it is there's a lot of people that you know do get like a ready
[2418.05] Jack: To fly package or get their friends to build it and when they crash then they do struggle to to make those repairs
[2424.21] Quad Mcfly: And that's you know, that that's why it's worth
[2426.29] Quad Mcfly: I think if you're gonna get one to get one from something where there's a where there's a support infrastructure in place
[2431.73] Quad Mcfly: My version rc has really good support of their product line
[2435.81] Quad Mcfly: Um, a lot of local hobby shops here in the states are selling the vortex
[2440.45] Quad Mcfly: So if you break it you take it back to the local hobby shop
[2444.13] Quad Mcfly: They fix it they give it back
[2445.73] Quad Mcfly: So, you know again, you don't have to uh, you don't have to be you don't have to be a techie necessarily
[2451.09] Quad Mcfly: If you're willing to pay for repairs
[2454.61] Quad Mcfly: Yes
[2457.33] Quad Mcfly: If you're gonna get into the technical side it's worth it
[2461.25] Quad Mcfly: To to you know have something that's either a easier to repair
[2464.69] Quad Mcfly: Or b that you can that you can you build yourself and really understand how it works
[2469.97] Quad Mcfly: And I think I think that there's there's definitely still you know that
[2475.57] Quad Mcfly: I think the majority of people are going to end up that route just because of the nature of this hobby
[2479.81] Quad Mcfly: I just I don't like to see people belittled or you know seen as inferior for for going the ready to fly route
[2486.69] Quad Mcfly: um
[2487.33] Quad Mcfly: I still like to see them and encourage them to get into the technical side because I think that in in to a certain extent
[2494.13] Quad Mcfly: A large part of the strengths of our hobby is in the educational aspects
[2499.73] Quad Mcfly: In the fact that you can learn how this stuff works you can you can understand
[2505.25] Quad Mcfly: The basics of computer programming you can understand, you know
[2508.51] Quad Mcfly: Electricity and and how all of that works you can learn about electronics and about how induction works and why all these things work together
[2515.41] Quad Mcfly: Basic aerodynamics, you know to me that's one of the really
[2519.33] Quad Mcfly: The really strong points of this hobby is from an educational perspective not just for kids
[2524.13] Quad Mcfly: I mean we've got a huge section, you know
[2526.05] Quad Mcfly: The polls you see on many quad club and things the majority of people
[2530.45] Quad Mcfly: Who are in this hobby in the circles in which I move are in their 30s and 40s
[2536.61] Quad Mcfly: Because we have expendable income, right? So that's where we are, but I still think it's a learning tool
[2541.81] Quad Mcfly: I think that those people coming in not all of them have an engineering background
[2545.97] Quad Mcfly: Some of them do but even the ones who do you're still learning something every time you pick one of these up
[2550.85] Quad Mcfly: And that's the power of this hobby
[2553.25] Quad Mcfly: In general, and I think the community recognizes that so, you know, i've kind of gone i'm i'm an academic
[2560.45] Jack: It's true
[2566.21] Quad Mcfly: I've kind of gone off from the practical side of the question into the theoretical side of the question
[2571.33] Jack: Is the eternal failing? Yeah, one one thing that totally does me is when I recommend
[2577.41] Jack: When yeah when I recommend, uh products and then they they go discontinued there was a lot
[2582.69] Jack: Is it the zmx motors and stuff like that? Like how I have yet to figure out a way of getting around that
[2589.97] Quad Mcfly: Well, you can do what I do and not make specific recommendations
[2594.93] Quad Mcfly: You know, I think it it goes back to that like you you don't you don't give a man fish you teach him to fish
[2600.37] Quad Mcfly: Right. I mean that's the old saying
[2602.29] Quad Mcfly: um, so if you teach people and that's that's
[2605.17] Quad Mcfly: Honestly, one of the primary purposes of my website and why I do what I do
[2609.25] Quad Mcfly: Is because I want people to understand and I want people to be able to to look at something and learn how to evaluate it
[2615.49] Quad Mcfly: um
[2617.33] Quad Mcfly: What what we have to do is be able to
[2619.81] Quad Mcfly: To help people recognize what makes a good product and what makes a good motor?
[2624.61] Quad Mcfly: Beyond just a specific motor, uh, you know, there's combinations of things to look for when you're evaluating a motor
[2630.05] Quad Mcfly: It doesn't have to be a specific motor. What you need to know is it are things like, you know
[2636.21] Quad Mcfly: How how how good are the bearings in the motor? How tight is the air gap between the stators?
[2641.25] Quad Mcfly: That's going to tell you a lot about performance
[2643.33] Quad Mcfly: um
[2644.05] Quad Mcfly: What types of magnets are used in in the motor?
[2647.33] Quad Mcfly: All these things are pieces of information that you can put together to get a pretty good picture of where that motor is going
[2653.01] Quad Mcfly: To sit in their performance
[2655.49] Jack: Sorry, I love it. Tony slowly slowly switching up. Um, how did you get started in the hobby man?
[2661.97] Jack: Just well, I kind of sort of partially answered that already but but um, no like really like what was your first exposure?
[2669.81] Quad Mcfly: Um, well, I I work here at the university and uh, part of my job is to manage student workers that uh,
[2677.97] Quad Mcfly: That do a lot of the production work. So i'm in charge of of
[2682.05] Quad Mcfly: the
[2683.09] Quad Mcfly: Creative side of our online courses here at the university
[2686.29] Quad Mcfly: So I do a lot of programming and interactive design and video production and the creative side
[2692.13] Quad Mcfly: Of the content that gets created for the university
[2695.09] Quad Mcfly: So I manage student workers as part of that and one of my student workers
[2699.41] Quad Mcfly: Uh was really into it
[2701.49] Quad Mcfly: I i'd been watching it for a while and kind of been interested in flying things and as I said
[2705.81] Quad Mcfly: I'd already been into robotics making my own robots to drive around my house and stuff out of scrap parts. Um,
[2712.29] Quad Mcfly: so
[2713.25] Quad Mcfly: uh, he he had a tricopter and I started asking a lot of questions and uh,
[2718.37] Quad Mcfly: This was back in the day, you know, the the windest all try
[2721.73] Quad Mcfly: And uh quick jack's gonna find these now
[2726.21] Tony: It'd be on your bed on the right hand side
[2728.77] Tony: so
[2729.49] Quad Mcfly: Uh, he uh, we just started talking and he got me into it
[2732.53] Quad Mcfly: We put together a parts list and my first quad was a oh, yeah, there it is
[2738.77] Quad Mcfly: It was a little bigger than that
[2740.53] Quad Mcfly: Yeah, this was the old school one the big, you know
[2742.53] Quad Mcfly: The first one that david came up with and it was with the wooden, you know, it was just the plans and booms
[2748.21] Quad Mcfly: Yeah, the wooden booms, um, which
[2751.89] Quad Mcfly: It meant an untimely death not too long after that
[2755.17] Quad Mcfly: Um, it crashed into the road and got run over like four times. So
[2761.49] Quad Mcfly: So, um, my first build was uh was uh
[2765.81] Quad Mcfly: Um a knockoff, uh flame wheel 330 the the f330 the little frame and I never could get it to fly right
[2773.33] Quad Mcfly: I used crap motors from hobby king. Um
[2776.29] Quad Mcfly: Everything it was, you know the flip 1.5 and it just
[2779.73] Quad Mcfly: It as soon as I took off it's just too much oscillations over one the gyro and like would not land
[2784.93] Quad Mcfly: So that cost me a lot in broken parts and ego
[2790.37] Jack: And ready to fly quads man ready pull would look look after you man
[2795.49] Jack: That was that that was the only way to like get get through it, you know, like he would
[2802.21] Jack: Great customer support flash stuff phone. Did you get your stuff yet? No is why it's by listening?
[2807.89] Jack: I don't know. I don't I don't I'm not too sure
[2810.85] Jack: Please send my gear
[2813.49] Tony: Um, what's that? Are they but I know you did in florida, so it probably won't happen
[2818.77] Quad Mcfly: But it's always interesting to watch the progression as people get into quads because you know
[2821.81] Quad Mcfly: You start out with the 450s
[2823.25] Quad Mcfly: Like that was I I abandoned the 330 and got a flame wheel 450 and that flew great for a while
[2828.13] Quad Mcfly: And then you start going bigger, right? Everybody thinks oh, that's great. Let's go bigger
[2831.65] Quad Mcfly: So everybody starts to go bigger at first and then and then eventually you realize
[2836.37] Quad Mcfly: Bigger's not that great and then you start going smaller and then we all end up with the with the fpv mini quads
[2842.93] Quad Mcfly: It's inevitable. It just it always happens
[2846.53] Tony: That's it. I got someone to build my first ever quad. I just randomly found someone
[2852.37] Tony: He sent me the transmitter
[2854.93] Tony: And built a qav my qav my first ever quad
[2859.09] Tony: Nice, which I nearly gave up so many times flying. I was like
[2866.21] Jack: No
[2867.17] Jack: So glad you're so
[2870.19] Jack: Persistent or you would never have met you
[2873.17] Jack: Like no, you know tony's like a lynch pin in this community
[2878.29] Jack: Jesus pin somewhere
[2880.85] Jack: of destruction
[2882.29] Jack: Um, I'm distracted nice
[2884.77] Jack: Tony breaks everything we had a question about hollow point motors. Do you want to just give you a little?
[2889.73] Jack: two cents on that
[2891.89] Jack: Hey, what's down? What's your opinion?
[2894.53] Jack: On speed rate escs
[2897.57] Jack: Getting to and what does the motor?
[2901.01] Jack: And what it does to the motor can it handle the pace?
[2904.69] Jack: N52 magnets worth it question mark from radars fpv
[2910.69] Quad Mcfly: Well
[2911.97] Quad Mcfly: Yeah, I mean I think the the stronger magnets make a massive difference. Um, i'm not sure I understood the question about the speed controller
[2918.37] Quad Mcfly: It's just saying if the hang on hang on
[2920.37] Quad Mcfly: Faster are you talking about the faster protocol speeds whether the motors can keep up?
[2924.45] Jack: Yeah, um, we had
[2926.53] Jack: Hang on a minute. I've got chat. Hang on. It might be me dyslexically reading out that question really badly
[2933.97] Jack: So speed so the update rates. Yeah the update because there's only a certain amount the speed that you can get out of a motor
[2940.53] Jack: You know before it won't
[2941.97] Jack: You know it won't do anything
[2943.65] Quad Mcfly: Because you have to kind of split it into parts because you have the gyro rate
[2946.61] Quad Mcfly: You have the PID controller rate and then you have the esc update rate
[2950.13] Quad Mcfly: So you've got three kind of pieces moving pieces when it comes to flight control firmware
[2954.53] Quad Mcfly: Um, and the the whole well the whole you know line of uh, of the the processing line
[2962.45] Quad Mcfly: Yeah, if you try tricopter. Yes
[2965.17] Quad Mcfly: Sorry, I just thought that yeah
[2968.45] Quad Mcfly: Um powerful compilations, you know the the the motor's ability to change speed is 100 the bottleneck. I mean
[2976.61] Quad Mcfly: My tests have measured
[2978.29] Quad Mcfly: You know, you're not really seeing transition speeds faster than maybe 150 milliseconds 130 milliseconds depending on the prop
[2985.81] Quad Mcfly: uh, you know, you've got maybe a 50 millisecond difference between the super lightweight props and the
[2990.21] Quad Mcfly: The really heavy props maybe more on some of the props
[2993.17] Quad Mcfly: But the the range of props that most of us fly are kind of in this this between 150 and 200 millisecond range
[2999.09] Quad Mcfly: From the time the the motor receives the command until the time it actually can execute change
[3004.61] Quad Mcfly: Maybe less depending on how far of a range you're you're asking
[3008.85] Quad Mcfly: so the
[3010.85] Quad Mcfly: The the bottleneck is definitely in the motor
[3014.29] Quad Mcfly: now the faster speed controllers, I think
[3016.43] Quad Mcfly: Definitely have an impact and latency tends to be additive through the whole system
[3021.25] Quad Mcfly: So every time you add latency that latency adds to what's already there
[3024.53] Quad Mcfly: So removing any sort of latency in the system is going to reduce the end-to-end latency
[3029.09] Quad Mcfly: So it's hard to predict where all of these things line up
[3032.53] Quad Mcfly: I I think that when it comes to the ese update rates
[3036.05] Quad Mcfly: There is a practical limit to the point where you're just sending the motor the same commands
[3040.13] Quad Mcfly: And it's just it's going to change as fast as it's going to change, but I don't think it hurts anything either. So
[3045.41] Quad Mcfly: Um, they're you know, depending on the setup the the one risk that you run with super fast update rates
[3051.89] Quad Mcfly: Is that every time?
[3053.73] Quad Mcfly: The ese receives a signal that has to process something it's it's triggered by an interrupt
[3058.21] Quad Mcfly: um in the processor, so
[3060.85] Quad Mcfly: By sending a 32 kilohertz update rate
[3063.41] Quad Mcfly: It's possible to saturate the mcu in terms of how much processing it can actually do
[3068.37] Quad Mcfly: Depending on how fast the motor is spinning and other load factors in the mcu
[3073.25] Quad Mcfly: So, you know, this is why there was a practical limit on those f330 mc's back in the day
[3078.13] Quad Mcfly: you couldn't run more than four kilohertz not because
[3081.81] Quad Mcfly: You know not because of an electrical limit but because of a processing limit and the cpu just couldn't process the interrupts that fast
[3088.61] Quad Mcfly: so
[3090.13] Quad Mcfly: And that led to the overclocking of the nays
[3094.29] Jack: 32
[3095.49] Quad Mcfly: Well that and that's you know
[3096.61] Quad Mcfly: The in the nays part that's it's less of an issue because the mcu's the the 32-bit all the 32-bit microcontrollers
[3103.31] Quad Mcfly: Actually support hardware hardware pwm peripheral. So if you unsync the uh, the ese output from the
[3111.65] Quad Mcfly: From the PID loop
[3113.25] Quad Mcfly: It's actually processed. It actually costs nothing to the mcu to go to a higher rate
[3117.97] Quad Mcfly: from the flight controller side
[3120.13] Quad Mcfly: So 32 kilohertz 16 kilohertz 8 kilohertz doesn't make any difference to the processing output at all
[3125.49] Quad Mcfly: Because it's all being processed through an external hardware peripheral
[3128.69] Quad Mcfly: Um, so that you know on the on the flight controller side
[3131.73] Quad Mcfly: It's really not an issue as far as mcu saturation goes it's really only an issue on the ese side
[3137.73] Quad Mcfly: So the question is being does it actually make a difference and that's really really hard to nail down. Um
[3145.25] Quad Mcfly: So
[3146.29] Jack: Coming up can't ask a dumb question. So what's
[3150.85] Jack: Uh, what why was there a big push for the um spi instead of the ic2?
[3156.77] Jack: ic squared
[3158.21] Quad Mcfly: So now that actually makes a huge difference. So that's a slightly different issue. So
[3163.01] Quad Mcfly: I don't know if maybe I can come to that in a minute. Um
[3165.81] Quad Mcfly: after after we finish with the answering this one question, but
[3169.41] Quad Mcfly: um
[3170.93] Quad Mcfly: Yeah, I don't
[3173.41] Quad Mcfly: I think some pilots might be able to feel a difference but for the vast majority of pilots
[3177.57] Quad Mcfly: The difference between 16 kilohertz on the motor on the ese output rate and 32 kilohertz on the ese output rate is going to be
[3184.93] Quad Mcfly: Almost nothing. Um, I I don't think it's going to make a difference now
[3188.85] Quad Mcfly: You start getting lower and the difference starts being more
[3191.25] Quad Mcfly: so, you know the jump from 4 kilohertz to 8 kilohertz and then 8 kilohertz to 16 I think has
[3196.93] Quad Mcfly: Chain has impact. It's that last jump from 16 to 32 that i'm not 100 sold on yet
[3202.77] Quad Mcfly: Um, and even the jump from 8 to 16 is only going to make a difference on certain setups
[3208.45] Quad Mcfly: Where you know, the variables are right on a slower setup like a 2205 with the hbn 5 by 4 5 by 3s
[3215.09] Quad Mcfly: It may not make much a difference because the bottleneck is so much in the motors and the props
[3219.97] Quad Mcfly: um, so
[3222.21] Quad Mcfly: Uh, you know, I it's really hard to nail down definitively one way or another. Um, I did some preliminary testing
[3228.21] Quad Mcfly: um several months ago where I did some twitch tests with uh with the ese output and
[3233.65] Quad Mcfly: The data seemed to suggest that at 32 kilohertz there was a small increase in uh
[3239.89] Quad Mcfly: in
[3241.09] Quad Mcfly: In like the ability of the the motor to respond
[3244.93] Quad Mcfly: Um, but it was very undefinitive like it was fractional and it was entirely possible that it was just noise
[3251.81] Quad Mcfly: Um, that's how you know
[3253.57] Quad Mcfly: I would have to run the test many different ways and you know run it through all kinds of algorithms to see if it was
[3258.69] Quad Mcfly: Actually statistically relevant and not just noise in the system
[3262.29] Quad Mcfly: um
[3264.13] Quad Mcfly: but uh, it's uh
[3266.85] Quad Mcfly: It's it's uh, it's really hard to to nail down definitively
[3271.09] Quad Mcfly: Um where where that line is now, I think there's definitely benefits to running
[3276.77] Quad Mcfly: the gyro and the PID loop at a faster rate
[3280.69] Quad Mcfly: Because you always want the the most recent information
[3285.73] Quad Mcfly: Available to the system. So
[3288.21] Quad Mcfly: Running those at the fastest rate possible is going to be really critical and that's part of why you see an impact on the ese output
[3294.53] Quad Mcfly: Rate too because then the most recent information is what was sent to the motor
[3298.53] Quad Mcfly: But you know with the motor being lagging behind it's still it's questionable on the ese output rate
[3303.89] Quad Mcfly: But the gyro rate and the PID rate to me like it's never going to be a problem to run those as fast as possible
[3310.45] Quad Mcfly: It's always going to be some sort of improvement, you know again percentage wise how much of an improvement is hard to gauge
[3316.69] Quad Mcfly: um, but I think it particularly gives an advantage in um
[3321.73] Quad Mcfly: In extreme situations like prop wash situations where you're making hard 180 turns and you're really pushing the limits of the system
[3329.25] Quad Mcfly: If you're really pushing the limits and you're really constantly like pushing things as hard as you can
[3333.97] Quad Mcfly: I think that you're going to notice a difference on those higher rates on the flight controller and on the
[3339.73] Quad Mcfly: And on the you know on the the gyro and the PID controller
[3343.57] Quad Mcfly: So that you know, it just changes the speed at which the information can be gathered
[3348.61] Quad Mcfly: And so the latest information is always the information that's being sent
[3353.01] Quad Mcfly: to to react
[3355.97] Quad Mcfly: Interesting
[3357.01] Quad Mcfly: You know I squared c severely limits that so that's you know
[3360.29] Quad Mcfly: Going back to your question as far as is why there's the big push for spi
[3364.13] Quad Mcfly: And to illustrate to illustrate the point of the the difference between I squared c and spi
[3369.89] Quad Mcfly: I still run a cc3d the original cc3d on
[3374.37] Quad Mcfly: Three or four different quads at 8k and 2k. So 8k gyro 2k PID loop
[3380.37] Quad Mcfly: And it outperforms by significant margin
[3384.05] Quad Mcfly: The f3 boards that i've tried that are running
[3388.13] Quad Mcfly: That are running an I squared c gyro
[3390.29] Quad Mcfly: Like the older the the tornado and some of the old the original f3 boards the sparky
[3395.33] Quad Mcfly: Sparky sparky. Yeah, the original sparky one. Yeah
[3400.93] Quad Mcfly: Yeah, and the sp spr f3 and yep. Yep. Yep
[3404.53] Quad Mcfly: So all of those, you know the cc3d, which is a you know, a decade old board almost
[3409.49] Quad Mcfly: Um, well, I don't know how old it is when it first came out, but it's
[3413.25] Jack: Oh, it's shut up
[3415.73] Jack: It's just like i'm sure you were there when they were right. You were you were there, you know
[3420.85] Quad Mcfly: So it was one of the first 32-bit boards that was out there and it's still it's still relevant today because
[3427.57] Quad Mcfly: Of the spi gyro. So
[3429.89] Quad Mcfly: That's you know, that kind of illustrates the the importance of of that
[3433.73] Quad Mcfly: You know having a slower mcu is less critical than having a faster gyro
[3438.85] Jack: you know, there is a lot of problems with the the 600 gyros and
[3443.17] Jack: You know how sensitive they are to noise and that I mean you believe in that
[3448.61] Quad Mcfly: Yeah, yeah, yeah, and again, I mean i've run I ran a lux for a long time without problems and
[3455.57] Quad Mcfly: It's you know
[3455.97] Quad Mcfly: This the whole soft mounting thing is a really interesting thing
[3458.37] Quad Mcfly: And I definitely come down on the side of it never hurts to soft mount again. You can see
[3464.05] Quad Mcfly: You can see here i'm running the uh, the rubber bobbins there
[3468.29] Quad Mcfly: All right, and i've this is what I was running on the lux and i've literally flown the lux back with a prop bent at 90 degree
[3475.09] Quad Mcfly: Angles without any problems at all with that setup
[3478.61] Quad Mcfly: So and there's you know
[3480.21] Quad Mcfly: There's electrical issues involved in all of this the the noise floor of the 3.3 volt rail
[3484.77] Quad Mcfly: That supplies power to the imu makes a huge difference in the ability of the imu to to you know
[3490.93] Quad Mcfly: The noise or the noise the physical noise floor on the imu
[3494.29] Quad Mcfly: Is tied to the noise floor of the 3.3 volt supply line
[3497.33] Quad Mcfly: So if it's not done properly if you don't have an isolated, uh, 3.3 volt
[3502.05] Quad Mcfly: Power supply for the imu separate from the cpu, you know, you can run into problems there
[3507.57] Quad Mcfly: so but yeah the to be fair the the the
[3511.97] Quad Mcfly: The mpu 6000 is much less sensitive to that particularly to the amount of supply issues
[3518.05] Quad Mcfly: So it's it's a pretty good bet
[3521.01] Quad Mcfly: But you know the you're limited max to eight kilohertz on the
[3525.49] Quad Mcfly: on the uh
[3526.69] Quad Mcfly: The mpu 6000 whether more is useful is again another another question for debate
[3532.29] Quad Mcfly: That's really hard to give a definitive answer to
[3534.69] Quad Mcfly: Um, that's pretty much as far as I can tell it's it's mostly pilot opinion
[3539.57] Tony: On that one. So we need f4 boards yet then or we can we still push f3 boards?
[3545.17] Quad Mcfly: I think we need f4 with at least with beta flight
[3548.61] Quad Mcfly: Because of the advanced nature of the the PID controllers and the filters we're pushing the limits of the mcu processing power there
[3556.05] Quad Mcfly: Um, I i've switched entirely to f4. I I won't fly. I mean, I still have a few f3s, but
[3562.05] Quad Mcfly: Anything I buy new i'm always buying an f4. There's no point in purchasing something that's basically already out of date
[3568.21] Quad Mcfly: in my opinion, so um
[3570.37] Quad Mcfly: Does anyone?
[3571.81] Jack: Oh, does anyone know what f the kit sport is?
[3576.29] Quad Mcfly: The kiss is an f1
[3578.29] Quad Mcfly: If it's an f3, sorry, it's an f3. It's an f3, but it's an i squared c gyro
[3583.01] Jack: Uh, okay
[3584.37] Quad Mcfly: It's the f3 the 303
[3587.49] Quad Mcfly: But they're you know, they're taking a totally different approach to to the whole problem. It's it's uh,
[3592.77] Quad Mcfly: It's really interesting to see the different approaches
[3594.69] Quad Mcfly: You know, there's a lot of kind of conflict between the communities sometimes and it gets a little frustrating
[3599.33] Quad Mcfly: But the you know between race flight and beta flight and clean fire. Yeah kiss and all of that stuff
[3604.13] Quad Mcfly: There's always this conflict going on but I think in my opinion the diversity of of approaches and the diversity of of
[3611.87] Quad Mcfly: Methodologies is really good because we end up with different innovations out of different groups, you know
[3616.21] Quad Mcfly: We've got d shot out of felix fantastic innovation there, you know, and that's spreading around
[3621.25] Quad Mcfly: We've got different focuses in these different groups that are all focusing on different things and coming up with different innovations
[3627.73] Quad Mcfly: Beta flight has really pioneered some of the advanced filtering and some of the advanced pit controller stuff
[3632.45] Quad Mcfly: You know race flight is pioneering the the high update rates
[3635.73] Quad Mcfly: um, yeah
[3637.17] Quad Mcfly: And and kiss is focused more on on you know
[3640.61] Quad Mcfly: The smoothness of things and the integration and the the digital protocols
[3644.77] Quad Mcfly: Which is great and and it's great to me to see that focused on all of these different platforms coming together
[3649.49] Quad Mcfly: You know completely to make the hobby a better place
[3651.97] Jack: So I I get eventually they'll all meet they'll all integrate and then they'll be all in one place
[3659.41] Quad Mcfly: Right, so, you know
[3660.85] Quad Mcfly: And then it gives it gives good choice to the users people can decide what's a priority for them and they can go with that priority
[3666.61] Quad Mcfly: And I you know, I I'd like to see the communities be a little more friendly to each other in the end
[3672.21] Quad Mcfly: But uh, you know, I think the the diversity the diversity of thought is is good for the hobby
[3677.41] Quad Mcfly: Anytime you get into this mono way of thinking where everybody is thinking the same way. It means that you're on a decline
[3683.97] Jack: So that's why we have tony here
[3686.77] Jack: Tony
[3687.57] Jack: Yeah flat and lizard people are in charge
[3691.89] Jack: I think he's an idiot
[3694.85] Jack: So, you know like we don't judge here
[3699.01] Tony: You know, I mean, you know, well i've just flown um an f4 board going from uh
[3707.09] Tony: f3 board
[3709.17] Tony: From f4 f3 to f4 race flight and it felt amazing
[3713.97] Tony: Really really like a different kind of fish
[3717.25] Quad Mcfly: Yeah, I mean even on beta flight I can tell a significant difference between the f3 and the f4 simply
[3722.37] Quad Mcfly: Simply because the filters are able to be more effective, you know, as far as we're taking less cpu overhead
[3727.97] Quad Mcfly: Even if it's minimal, there's still less wait time between the cycles and you know, like
[3732.37] Quad Mcfly: It's even if it's technically the same cycle speed the the less overhead in the f4
[3737.81] Quad Mcfly: Means that you're getting less variation that's where the big difference to me between the f4 and the and the um
[3746.53] Quad Mcfly: And the f3 is is that the f4 is much more stable
[3749.81] Quad Mcfly: So you're getting you're getting the same basically the same timings every time
[3754.13] Quad Mcfly: Whereas the if you look at the loops like the loop times on the on the f3s you start getting a lot of jumping around
[3760.93] Quad Mcfly: um
[3761.57] Quad Mcfly: That's I always ran on synced on the f3s because the uh, you know to get the yes the update rate
[3767.25] Quad Mcfly: Because I was getting jitter problems if I ran it synced on the f3s and you don't necessarily have to on the f4s
[3773.09] Quad Mcfly: But i'm still running on synced on the f4s just because I like it
[3777.25] Quad Mcfly: but
[3778.21] Quad Mcfly: Um, yeah, so it's you know, all those little things add up
[3782.85] Tony: So soon bf7 and nfi in our yeah, they're working on the f7s already in race flight
[3789.17] Jack: I'm, not sure if beta flight is working on those or not. Yeah, tony. Tony just gets a bit upset that you have to learn our account further
[3797.57] Tony: When it gets itself half thin i'm knackered
[3802.61] Jack: Start using his toes like I know i'm struggling to
[3806.53] Jack: Trying to trying to keep up and trying the the d shot and
[3811.33] Jack: That's why yeah
[3813.33] Jack: And um, it's just yeah, you're right. It's you know, like it's still in um developer mode and it's you know
[3820.21] Jack: Like i'm getting the
[3821.89] Jack: Is it the imi overload and then i'm getting dead duck mode and my car just drops out the sky?
[3828.93] Jack: Which is pretty hilarious, but I still decided to fly it
[3832.85] Jack: Halfway across the field to a barn
[3835.57] Jack: Yeah, because that's a slight big clue, isn't it?
[3838.93] Jack: Yeah
[3841.09] Jack: So and then poor tony has to go rescue my quad from yeah, make him sounds good
[3847.25] Jack: Yeah, he's much more lighter
[3849.09] Jack: He's like he's just over that fence
[3854.37] Jack: All right, um i've noticed the time it's 906 and the longer these go on even though i'm enjoying myself
[3860.45] Jack: Um, it's more editing more editing
[3863.09] Jack: So i'm gonna have to you are welcome back any time. Like we really enjoyed you
[3867.57] Jack: I kind of wish this is probably not appropriate to say but I kind of wish that you and joshua bardwell could have babies
[3875.35] Jack: They would be like
[3878.07] Quad Mcfly: Well, you know joshua is actually pretty close to me here i'm in chattanougan he's in knoxville
[3881.75] Quad Mcfly: So, uh, we actually run into each other periodically at the at some, you know group meetups and things
[3887.27] Jack: Do you ever like introduce him to your students and like here you go?
[3893.43] Jack: You know
[3894.87] Jack: That's awesome. You guys play together though
[3897.83] Quad Mcfly: every now and then we don't have as much chance to recently but uh
[3901.99] Quad Mcfly: Um, we've we've flown a couple of the back back, you know almost a year ago
[3906.07] Quad Mcfly: I think we uh
[3907.35] Quad Mcfly: We we did a couple of races where our group from chattanouga and the group from knoxville kind of got together
[3912.15] Quad Mcfly: And I ran into joshua there
[3914.15] Jack: uh, man, so I just I love
[3917.19] Jack: How you're like still soft mount in your your flight controller that really does come from the 450 days
[3923.35] Jack: That really does where you had no, you know
[3927.11] Jack: Yeah, you had mounting screws, but you never used them
[3931.35] Tony: Yeah, when I first met you you used to um buy
[3934.93] Tony: CD mounting rings, you know the little yeah
[3939.11] Tony: But we never do that. I never mount soft mount anything anymore, but you used to always buy the cd little
[3945.59] Tony: Yeah mounts for cds drives and always put them on my cogs. Yeah, I know
[3952.39] Tony: I want it done again
[3955.19] Quad Mcfly: Yeah, it's like three pound 50 50 of them
[3958.31] Quad Mcfly: There's
[3960.31] Quad Mcfly: Because there's a lot of guys who kind of approach it
[3962.87] Quad Mcfly: They just put the rubber grommet and put a screw through it
[3965.51] Quad Mcfly: But it's like that totally defeats the purpose if it's uh, it's still hard mounted on to something
[3970.95] Quad Mcfly: That didn't do any good at all
[3974.15] Jack: There we go, yeah, sorry, ah don't wind me up
[3979.11] Jack: Right. Thank you. You have been listening to let's drone out a halloween special
[3984.63] Jack: I hope you're all scared and like, you know, hang on i'll put my put the costume back on
[3995.91] Jack: Thank you wishing you a great halloween and uh, hopefully you'll take some carrier bags to your plots and fly them around
[4003.75] Jack: So happy halloween you can enjoy by quadrant fly scary toning
[4010.63] Jack: Might be bright till I fly and um
[4014.39] Quad Mcfly: You're it
[4015.75] Jack: Thanks for having me guys. It was a lot of fun. Yeah. Thank you for losing
[4020.63] Jack: By the way
[4021.91] Quad Mcfly: What huh? Missed that left work early. Thank you. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I took my lunch break late actually is what I what I ended up doing
[4030.07] Jack: Thanks very much. Appreciate it. Thank you. I hope everyone enjoyed and happy halloween
[4037.83] Jack: Telemetry lost