=== Let's Drone Out — Episode 103 ===
Title: Mr Cleanflight himself
Recorded: 2017-08-18
Hosts: Jack "Brightontillifly" Nash, Tony "TheTonstar1" Marchant
Guest(s): Dominic "Mr Cleanflight" Clifton
Total audience: 2,231
Platforms: YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXA6aaq6S3g); SoundCloud (http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/feeds.soundcloud.com/stream/376324451-letsdroneout-mr-cleanflight-himself.m4a)
=====================================

We are so glad to have him on after years of nagging him.

Dominic Clifton
http://cleanflight.com
https://www.youtube.com/user/dominicc1974

[0.69] Jack: Let's drone out
[4.93] Jack: Right you little buggers. Hello, you're listening to let's go now
[10.87] Jack: This is Dominic Clifton in
[13.57] Jack: The green shirt. Yeah, or mr. Clean fly as you know him back in the day. It was base flight and then time car
[22.89] Jack: Okay, and then they kind of you know had a little bit of a
[26.89] Jack: And then Dom was like I'll tidy this up rewrite it and then everyone jumped ship and the code actually worked
[33.93] Jack: He made like, you know
[38.33] Jack: Fail of safes a thing of the past
[41.85] Dominic: Directed fairly days. There was loads of cereal was one of the one of the early things as well. That was a lot of that
[51.33] Dominic: Yeah, yeah
[56.85] Dominic: Yeah, oh wait, I've still got mine but there's this one my original is my
[63.65] Dominic: Nays dev board still on my desk
[67.57] Jack: With a hobby King 12 amp. Oh, yeah
[72.73] Jack: With my test clips and then a test motor
[80.21] Jack: Right, so
[82.49] Jack: Guys you can now carry on does now everyone knows who you are. All right
[87.01] Jack: It's normally
[90.45] Jack: Why did you treat us and go with that first?
[106.17] Jack: What more other than me say like wearing a t-shirt that says race shy can you get
[113.05] Jack: The I use kiss I must I must admit you do not like race flight do you Jack? I don't is crap everyone
[119.89] Jack: Like it's just shit
[122.49] Jack: Good things actually
[124.49] Dominic: The way they are. No, that's good
[127.37] Dominic: No, it's it's healthy for competition. All this stuff is it's good
[131.29] Dominic: for a long time, I've thought the
[134.29] Dominic: configuration of clean flight was a pain in the ass the MSP protocol for instance is not particularly well suited for configuration it's more suited for
[142.09] Dominic: Getting like telemetry and stats and OSD stuff and things like that. It's much better for that
[147.13] Dominic: And with race flight, for instance, they don't have all this legacy baggage that we do with the whole clean flight beat flight stuff
[153.05] Dominic: They don't have any extra clients talking to their own
[156.97] Dominic: So what it means is that we have to look after these
[159.69] Dominic: Older clients and therefore we get stuck with these legacy protocols, which aren't the best ones that we could be using
[164.97] Dominic: And therefore our configuration is not as easy and as good as it should be
[168.57] Dominic: So for instance, like, you know, the old immersion RC vortex for instance with the on-screen display and all that kind of stuff
[173.45] Dominic: They have their own things for that
[175.53] Jack: Drop it. Yeah
[180.57] Dominic: Like the way that take with a race flight boards, you know when you hold it and
[184.09] Dominic: It works out the angle of the of the quad stuff like that and the RC setup. It's uh much better
[190.09] Jack: Yeah, yeah, so does the storm 32 gimbal that works out which way you put the iron using stuff. Yeah
[196.81] Dominic: So there's all stuff like that, you know, there's like they're doing stuff like that, which is is needed for
[200.73] Dominic: Uh to make it easier for beginners to get into they'll be
[203.93] Jack: Yeah, but then motor four stops working all that stuff
[209.48] Jack: That's what happens
[218.12] Dominic: Yeah, they're not the answer to everything they they're not
[221.56] Tony: They
[223.56] Dominic: Anyone
[224.44] Dominic: They're all uh, I mean do you remember like what it was like and like a few years ago like with multi-way for instance
[230.04] Dominic: Remember you had to get this config file and you had to go in it and you had to set a load of settings
[234.76] Dominic: And then recompile the stuff yourself
[237.0] Dominic: Not like just downloads and firmware and poke a configuration tool to it and then away you go
[242.12] Dominic: No, you had to you had to go in get this any file things set up this stuff and hash stuff out
[247.64] Dominic: Oh
[248.52] Dominic: Oh my god, it took forever doing stuff. It was terrible. So um, so base flight was um
[253.0] Dominic: a massive step in the right direction with regards to um making that easier with the configuration side of things with that, uh
[260.6] Tony: The ctn did yeah. Yeah, I still think my
[264.84] Tony: first quad
[267.32] Tony: Has got base flight on it still
[270.04] Tony: Yeah
[273.56] Tony: 250
[275.24] Tony: Is running sunny sky motors
[278.42] Tony: 600 milliwatt massive
[281.48] Jack: 25 milliwatt. We told you about that tony. Do you want to see my first quad?
[286.84] Dominic: Do you want to see my first quad?
[289.32] Jack: a disco
[291.48] UNKNOWN: Yeah
[292.84] Dominic: There she is
[294.52] Jack: What rate did you put on that to make it flip?
[297.64] Dominic: Uh
[299.4] Dominic: High ones after a while. Yeah, no, this is great fun. I I I upgraded this recently to clean fight two stuff
[305.8] Dominic: and we're setting it up and uh
[308.6] Dominic: It just didn't fly properly like I used to and i've got to retune it all to get it right again
[313.16] Dominic: And it's like no
[314.52] Dominic: Yeah, like big old immersion RC stuff. I used to fly and flip this thing with like
[319.16] Dominic: the 1.2 gigahertz
[321.48] Dominic: Giant antennas and so on that was great
[324.92] Dominic: That's a while ago. I know like I remember people in hamster teeth with that. I tell you
[329.96] Jack: I
[332.6] Jack: So what you've been working on recently because last time I chatted to you I saw you at the rote riot
[341.08] Jack: That's right
[347.24] Dominic: Yeah working on a bunch of things
[349.56] Dominic: Working on some new new flight controller stuff as always always bringing something new to the path
[354.76] Dominic: Which I try and do with all the products that I bring out
[357.4] Dominic: Um, can you give can you give the people I can't give too much details on that. I mean unfortunately because
[363.96] Dominic: People steal all my ideas. It turns out
[366.04] Dominic: um
[367.08] Dominic: So the way things are with the market these days because it's so saturated
[370.76] Dominic: You have to keep some of the ideas pretty close to your chest until uh until they're ready for mass consumption
[375.96] Dominic: Because once you release something it's basically you get about two months before the chinese come out and just clone all your stuff
[382.28] Dominic: Which they will undoubtedly do
[385.08] Dominic: So I can't talk too much about it
[388.6] Dominic: Which is which sucks actually because one of the things I liked liked about the whole project is just like doing everything out in the open
[394.76] Dominic: uh
[396.04] Dominic: so
[397.24] Dominic: You know you create some that you work with some great people you make it even better you release a product and it's
[401.24] Dominic: And you do it and you can talk about freely what it is
[403.56] Dominic: You can get input to it which can then help the design and get all that better before you release it
[408.36] Dominic: Whereas now people hide things keeping close to their chest like I have to do
[412.68] Dominic: It comes out and then someone will say why didn't you do this and then you were like damn
[415.72] Dominic: I wish I'd had that input earlier, but then
[418.12] Jack: You can't always get it very easy. Can you whiz it past the screen just like nope. I'm not doing it
[423.72] Dominic: Nope
[424.68] Jack: Why because they'll stop frame by frame?
[427.16] Dominic: exactly
[429.4] Dominic: No, same, uh, but I can show you
[433.24] Dominic: Let's see. Uh
[435.16] Dominic: Couple of that's one of my current product. That's one of my hand-built ones
[439.0] Dominic: Uh, there he is
[440.92] Dominic: That is uh an f4 evo
[444.28] Dominic: With one of the f3
[446.18] Dominic: OSD pbbs on it
[449.48] Jack: Which is pretty neat
[452.2] Jack: It's pretty nice thing I saw in the no, no the uk drone show that thing was
[456.84] Dominic: There's the other one
[458.12] Dominic: Uh, the other one that I do which has got the vtx on it. Where is it like a hex hexagon the shape?
[463.08] Dominic: Yes. Yeah, here it is. Is this one? So this is what the stack looks like
[467.88] Dominic: Uh, let's get a bit closer there
[470.44] Dominic: All right, come on focus
[472.52] Dominic: There it is. There you go. There we go. So we've got that that's the neo stack
[476.76] Dominic: Which is pretty lovely. It's all sold on top as well
[479.08] Dominic: So you don't have to flip the board over to solder things onto the bottom
[481.8] Dominic: We just sold it all from the top
[483.4] Dominic: Which is which is really nice which is nice
[486.04] Dominic: There's there was an f3 version this out for quite a while and then there was this mad rush to do f4 stuff
[491.16] Dominic: So this is actually an f4 version of it. So there's an f4 on there and the two things come apart
[496.6] Jack: How
[498.6] Jack: How do you feel about you don't like when beta flight first like, you know, like forks and cling fly?
[506.04] Jack: Yeah, fly really took off. How did that make you feel?
[510.52] Dominic: Was it I always ask about it because they were trying out loads of good stuff, which I didn't currently have I didn't have time for
[515.64] Dominic: at the time
[516.6] Dominic: No, it was it was crazy
[521.56] Dominic: Was um the esc programming through
[525.56] Dominic: Uh reprogramming through the controller. Yeah, that was one of the big things that gained it a lot of popularity
[531.64] Jack: That was good, but you happened over your camera and then
[535.4] Dominic: Oh, yeah, it's quite fuzzy, hasn't it?
[538.52] Dominic: Yeah
[540.36] Dominic: All right again. Come on focus
[542.36] Dominic: Is that done it? No, no
[546.41] Dominic: Come on
[548.73] Dominic: That there is
[551.69] Dominic: Yeah, they did um, they had that
[553.69] Dominic: um
[554.81] Dominic: And there was a couple of other things that they basically built into the firmware
[558.17] Dominic: Um a little bit earlier because I think we were working on a bunch of the fail safe stuff at the time
[563.13] Dominic: um
[564.57] Dominic: There was yeah, there's loads of other things going in
[566.73] Dominic: So there's loads of cleaning up work that was happening at the same time as all this proof of concept stuff
[571.29] Dominic: Um, and then the proof of concept stuff because people wanted that they were just using this other firmware straight away
[577.77] Tony: Um, it was it was nice to have that pass through though. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's great
[582.65] Dominic: Really mainly it's the team fight code base as well, but this
[586.09] Dominic: Needed quite cleaning up some of that stuff did so I wasn't quite happy ready to have it in clean fire and it's initial
[592.65] Dominic: initial state
[594.73] Dominic: But this is um, when you have like a high level of um
[599.19] Dominic: Expectations from stuff
[600.89] Dominic: Then trying to get other developers to match your level of expectations can be can be pretty tricky because they don't always understand
[607.61] Dominic: Why why do you want it like this? Well, it just works. What's wrong with it?
[610.97] UNKNOWN: um
[611.85] Dominic: but
[612.97] Dominic: Yeah, trying to get the developers to understand that is one of the problems and then
[616.17] Dominic: It takes a lot of time to do that with just one developer and at the time
[619.77] Dominic: there was
[620.89] Dominic: like loads of
[622.57] Dominic: Input to clean flight. There was like prs left right and center. Um
[627.45] Dominic: And it takes a lot of time to sort of handhold each each of the developers through
[631.45] Dominic: Get their thing through and by that time this you know
[633.53] Dominic: You got to stack more things ready to go as well which you need and then
[637.05] Dominic: Yeah, you end up doing just more sort of like maintenance side of things but
[642.65] Dominic: If you don't do that, then the developers wander off and go and do something else instead
[647.37] Dominic: It's very pretty hard to balance here
[650.33] Dominic: Tom
[652.09] Tony: Release your your workstation area looks um
[657.29] Tony: Much better than um jacks
[660.49] Dominic: You can't find anything basically if you don't have it i've got boxes of screws boxes of vtx
[667.29] Dominic: boxes of flight controller bits
[669.85] Dominic: like
[671.29] Dominic: Wait, what we've got here. This is this is a fun box. This one is
[675.77] Tony: All right, what's in this box?
[680.57] Jack: Do you have in that 450 size quad is it the ggi 30 amps?
[685.61] Dominic: This is this is like a giant box of like
[688.33] Dominic: Loads of different flight controllers all required for like testing clean flight on
[693.85] Dominic: Like there are many many many flight controllers in that box
[698.41] Dominic: many
[701.3] Jack: What do you think about the new?
[703.46] Jack: Aio boards with the efc's osd all on the same board?
[708.34] Dominic: uh
[709.46] Dominic: well, um
[712.18] Dominic: Escs and osds on the same board. Did you say yeah, apparently I haven't seen aio boards
[718.26] Dominic: Yeah, no, i've not seen one of those yet. Um, there's like every time you look there's like some new products
[722.58] Dominic: So you can't keep up with it all
[724.18] Dominic: um
[725.62] Dominic: The having all the es
[728.74] Dominic: Um on the same board as a pdb doesn't strike me as a fantastic idea
[733.7] Dominic: Because that's a lot of money to go down the pan if something goes wrong
[737.7] Tony: What about noise as well?
[739.62] Dominic: Well, yeah, I mean there's that as well. Um, I know this I mean the neo stack
[743.7] Dominic: It's got all the all the osd and the vtx stuff on one board
[747.7] Dominic: Which is about six layers of copper away from all the noisy like um stuff on the pdb
[752.74] Dominic: Basically and underneath the bottom of the flight controller. So it's got quite a decent amount of rf shielding just because of that
[759.3] Dominic: um
[760.74] Dominic: But um having the osd on the fc
[764.9] Dominic: Isn't the greatest idea because you've got all the video signals mixed in with all the motor output signals and so on that can cause some issues
[771.14] Dominic: um
[772.42] Jack: But the digital protocols help that yeah, I never understood that's an issue. Sorry jack. Yeah, I never really understood
[778.74] Jack: Which bit you can't hear me. Yes
[780.82] Jack: like just having
[783.06] Jack: having the
[784.26] Jack: osd on the flight controller
[787.06] Dominic: Well, I mean the thing is the way that most people are doing the osds these you have the the max 7 4 5 6 chips
[793.46] Dominic: There's a couple of other alternatives. So yeah, I think they're fish
[797.38] Dominic: Rain or something. I see one. I can't remember what it's called
[800.74] Jack: But then again, these are so fragile the multi-we osds
[805.22] Tony: Yeah
[806.42] Tony: They always break. I never ever ever got
[810.74] Tony: On with them. Do you know how many times we try to get them working on my quads and just end up giving up?
[816.82] Jack: Yeah, it's it's like back in a multi-week
[818.74] Jack: I put one on my inaf like and that's running spf3 duo the one I bought from the nationals
[826.18] Tony: Yeah, that that doesn't bash into the ground at 70 mile an hour and then want to get back up and race again
[832.02] Tony: Does it that's like a maybe one day
[836.58] Tony: Well your return to homes jack
[839.7] Tony: Return to home turns into a pile of firewood
[842.98] Jack: I know
[843.94] Jack: I love that. I was like click to return to home on her like
[848.66] Jack: Like I now put it back like it was really early be uh, all right
[854.18] Jack: And it just landed very quickly
[857.46] Jack: Excellent it was like enough to return to home anyway
[864.42] Dominic: I'm just killing my systems to reduce my latency
[869.22] Jack: Multi-week osd needs a cap
[872.58] Dominic: needs what
[874.34] Jack: a caps
[877.78] Dominic: Yeah, so so I was never happy with the multi-week osd stuff and I was a bit uh disheartened when the
[884.82] Dominic: one of the beta flight developers ported the um multi-week osd code into the core of beta flight and like
[892.26] Dominic: It's not really the right way of going
[894.34] Dominic: I didn't like it because at the same time like last year
[896.5] Dominic: I'd basically spent quite a while writing new osd system for the ground up using the 7 4 5 6 chip
[902.34] Dominic: We did a whole bunch of unit tested code. It was lovely
[905.14] Dominic: um
[906.1] Dominic: but unfortunately that uh
[908.9] Dominic: Was it was fine in clean flight and so on it worked really well. Um
[912.9] Dominic: But it didn't and it didn't have any of the baggage of this old multi-week stuff
[916.1] Dominic: And we sort of inherited some of that old baggage again, which i'm trying to get rid of
[919.78] Dominic: But what it did have in the beta flight stuff was the configuration menu
[922.82] Dominic: So there was integration between the flight control settings and the osd stuff, which is one of the things I was pushing for quite a while
[929.46] Dominic: so
[930.66] Dominic: Then the whole clean flight two thing happened and i'm like, okay, let's just use this and then we'll
[934.98] Dominic: Go with that and then gradually improve it that way instead of uh using the clean flight stuff
[940.1] Jack: Yeah, that sucks man because like um
[942.5] Jack: Were you part of the you know the vector stuff? Did you do any part of that or you still?
[947.86] Jack: Which one was that one? Yeah, like i've heard about like the
[952.26] Jack: someone was working on the
[954.34] Jack: um
[955.22] Jack: Like vector type osd. Oh, I see. Sorry. I see what you mean. Um
[959.94] Jack: It does
[961.06] Dominic: Like a weird thing with all the colors and that yeah, I was starting to look at some of this stuff. Um
[966.82] Dominic: But don't know too much about other things have happened
[969.3] Dominic: Basically, and I got that basically got put on hold so the osd stuff didn't progress much further
[975.38] Tony: So you can't tell us you can't tell us your secret squirrel stuff that you're working on at the moment then
[981.38] Dominic: No, say not
[986.98] Jack: Um one question that's a little bit random
[989.78] Dominic: I can say everyone will love it and it will have things that you've not seen on a flight controller before
[995.54] Dominic: so
[996.42] Dominic: Watch this space
[998.02] Tony: How long have we got to watch this space for not too long?
[1002.0] Dominic: pcb's uh
[1003.86] Dominic: Went in they came out of the pcb factory last week
[1007.94] Dominic: It doesn't generally take too long once the pcb's with the assembly house
[1012.58] Dominic: So obviously there's going to be like you go through the sample phase where they make them and then you test them
[1016.98] Dominic: And then you go to the mass production and then you test some of the you test those as well
[1021.78] Dominic: um
[1022.34] Dominic: And then they get shipped over and so on and then I have to do the website
[1025.62] Dominic: Self and then the manual and then connection diagrams and all the rest of it and then
[1030.74] Dominic: They must take the shop and then they finally get out. So yeah, it takes that's a lot a lot of work
[1035.7] Dominic: Yeah, it's it's shed loads. It's shed loads. It keeps you well busy too busy sometimes
[1042.82] Jack: I like um, tina says integrate tri-flight code
[1048.02] Dominic: Yeah, the tri-flight stuff i've got where's my I think it might be
[1056.5] Dominic: I've got no not the mini one
[1058.66] Dominic: Um, i've got about three tricopters. Uh, yeah, I think a couple of them are out in spain
[1063.22] Dominic: I think one's in the box up on the shelf up there. There's like on the top up there. There's like
[1068.1] Dominic: uh
[1069.38] Dominic: That one up there
[1071.7] Dominic: It's just what it's all you got baby. Yeah. Yeah
[1075.7] Dominic: There's a low larger ones larger ones
[1079.54] Dominic: It's like a
[1081.38] Dominic: Three guys one and then some a bigger one as well. Yeah, I just love the organization
[1086.2] Tony: You can't find it unless it's organized. That's the thing. So I I turn up at jack's and say can you fix this please? And
[1092.28] Tony: Honestly, he does it but
[1095.72] Dominic: He's probably spent half time finding the things you need to fix it there, right?
[1099.8] Tony: No, but the fucking it's a mess, but he knows where everything is. Yeah
[1104.6] Tony: There's a screwdriver and you look over there and it's just kind of motors, but there is a screwdriver in it
[1111.0] Tony: Yeah, i've been moving out so much
[1113.0] Dominic: It's basically I need all my boxes these boxes are the same things in them for the last year or so
[1116.6] Dominic: They've got more things than them now, of course, but they've been in my old place in London. They've been in spain
[1122.12] Dominic: They've been in ibiza. They've been in in france now
[1125.64] Dominic: They've been here and I know what's in all the boxes and where they are. So that's all right
[1130.28] Dominic: They just they just appear on different shelves. So
[1134.44] Dominic: Do you still recognize the boxes? Yeah, exactly. So I know exactly where things are
[1138.92] Dominic: It's all good
[1140.28] Dominic: You've been quite quiet for
[1142.28] Tony: Well quite a long time. Yeah, i've been having a very busy year
[1144.92] Dominic: I was saying earlier that uh, I was in the process of buying a house this year
[1148.28] Dominic: So so that's done buying a house involves going around to see lots of other houses that you don't like
[1154.44] Dominic: And that takes forever, especially when they're in a different country. Yeah
[1159.0] Dominic: So yeah, so I found one back in may. I think it was. Yeah, so i've purchased a house now, which is kind of weird
[1165.96] Dominic: Finally, so now basically i've been having to head down do work to pay for it
[1171.88] Dominic: So that's been keeping me
[1173.88] Dominic: Yeah
[1175.32] Jack: Can I ask you some code stuff that I really don't know much about and you try and explain it to me?
[1181.8] Jack: And then also explode tony's little mind. Yeah, you need to go
[1188.52] Tony: Dom jack and then dumbass
[1191.56] Jack: Dom jack and then dumbass
[1199.24] Dominic: It might be something I don't know about there are lots of things in clean flight and beatified
[1202.36] Dominic: I don't actually know anything about whatsoever because of the size of the project
[1207.96] Jack: Tom smith released a like it's like a little test for um programmers and it's called fizz buzz. Oh, yeah
[1216.44] Jack: Yeah, I wondered how would you go about doing that?
[1219.72] Jack: Oh
[1221.72] Jack: Because you have to
[1224.2] Jack: Keeps you clean like that's your you know, like
[1229.08] Dominic: Have you seen and you think the project called enterprise fizz buzz it's hilarious
[1235.24] Dominic: Um, I actually don't know the fizz buzz test. It's never been done on me
[1241.64] Dominic: Well, can we do it to you now?
[1243.96] Dominic: Right of going I don't know. I don't want to do interview conversations right now. No, um,
[1252.84] Jack: I don't know. Can you like
[1255.64] Jack: so the it floods the next let's drone out chat with like
[1261.0] Jack: multiple
[1261.72] Dominic: Like five numbers of four or whatever write a program that prints the numbers from one to 100
[1265.88] Dominic: But for multiple to three print fizz instead of the number and for multiple supply print buzz
[1271.0] Dominic: Oh, yeah
[1272.28] Dominic: Okay. Yeah, there's probably a bunch of different ways to do it. It's like what language are you using and
[1277.8] Jack: Yeah
[1279.56] Jack: What um, yeah, what what was clean flight originally written in?
[1283.8] Dominic: Uh, it's always been in uh, c
[1286.52] Dominic: Yeah, it's always been in c. Um, yeah, even when uh, when you know the old multi-week code
[1291.0] Dominic: It was all c stuff, but it was all based around 8-bit processors rather than the 32-bit ones. What what's um,
[1297.8] Jack: B.I. Hurley written in it's written in something really
[1300.28] Dominic: skill
[1301.4] Dominic: The original stuff is uh all assembly language not machine code. That's the next thing you get
[1305.64] Dominic: Compile and language you get machine code. Um, and the machine code is what makes up your binary
[1312.04] Dominic: Why is it super fast and it allows them to reuse machine
[1316.6] Dominic: So if you get like a processor
[1318.92] Dominic: And you want to sell a lot of these things you basically want the cheapest thing you can to maximize the amount of profit
[1324.12] Dominic: You can sell on each one
[1325.72] Dominic: So if you can do it on a g processor and save a dollar on each processor versus using a high-level language
[1330.52] Dominic: Which requires a much bigger processor generally or faster processor
[1334.12] Dominic: then
[1335.4] Dominic: You can basically make more money for each unit that you sell and if you're selling four at a time to every person that buys a quad
[1342.2] Dominic: That's like four dollars. You might be losing if you went with a
[1345.32] Dominic: A more expensive processor, but the trade-off is then you have to write the code in a language, which isn't as necessarily flexible
[1352.76] Dominic: It's certainly much harder to refactor assembly language code than it is c for instance
[1356.68] Jack: um
[1358.04] Dominic: Yeah, so
[1359.72] Dominic: That's that's why you go for it. It's just to reduce costs normally
[1363.32] Dominic: Or you want ultimate performance out of you know, the processor chosen
[1367.88] Dominic: Yeah, because now
[1369.88] Tony: Are you still flying because I haven't seen you at the last competition. I saw you at you, uh crashed into me
[1378.96] Jack: He's really sore about this
[1380.96] Jack: I'm not talking about that every time if I can see you
[1387.2] Jack: Bloody mr. King fight. Yeah with a phone
[1392.08] Tony: What was that anyway that was at um, I draw an event it was uh, the
[1398.48] Tony: the london event when metal danny come over it was um
[1404.4] Jack: West london wasn't it? It was decades ago
[1408.56] Jack: two years ago
[1410.32] Jack: Basically, tony made me remove his processor chip
[1414.4] Jack: Yeah on his um
[1417.28] Jack: On his race fight board and then he wrote he scratched into it underneath it
[1421.84] Jack: You mr. Clean
[1426.24] Jack: Put it back on that was his sole reason but this will annoy him
[1432.56] Jack: And i like the sports board's got the little
[1435.52] Jack: little logo
[1437.6] Jack: Jesus
[1438.88] Tony: It was at the it was at the i-drone event when we were at west london, um semi-finals
[1445.28] Dominic: I remember. Oh, you mean uh, sorry. I thought you meant crashed as you personally but crashed as your quad. Yeah
[1451.6] Dominic: Yes
[1454.96] Dominic: Yeah, because we were talking about it a bit ago it's like with injuries and so on um, yes, that's right
[1459.44] Dominic: Yeah, no, there was uh, yeah, that's right
[1462.96] Tony: Yeah, we were at the semi-final
[1465.44] Tony: Hey mr. Clean flight
[1467.44] Dominic: Dear and people are taking me out, you know, you can't you can't get too fussed about shit happens when you're racing don't I know
[1473.28] Tony: I know
[1474.32] Tony: it was um
[1475.68] Tony: At least i've taken out by mr. Clean flight. It's pretty cool a bit worse
[1480.0] Tony: No, I think it could have been
[1482.56] Dominic: So you asked am I still flying very much? Uh, yeah, not too much, but I did get one of these little things
[1489.02] Dominic: Unfortunately and really annoyingly. I found out that it was a clone after i'd bought it. I'm like god damn it
[1493.76] Dominic: Even I have clone stuff because you can't even tell because there's so many of them
[1497.2] Dominic: So apparently the the frame is a clone of an english one, which is really really annoying
[1502.0] Dominic: Because I certainly wouldn't have won the boys. It's the e-sheen aurora 90, but that's a clone of I need to put a shout out to them
[1508.0] Dominic: Actually, I gotta remember who it is
[1511.92] Dominic: It's like a 90
[1514.08] Jack: I'll find it in a minute or something. Will the new fc of clean flight be for racers or side?
[1520.08] Dominic: It's for everybody all my products are always for everybody
[1523.76] Jack: That's how I roll. Please put that in the manual
[1527.36] Jack: This board is for everyone. Yeah, I mean it always have been so like, you know
[1531.36] Dominic: most of my boards the the only ones you can find they've got eight motor outputs for instance, so like the
[1536.64] Dominic: There's not many f4 boards. I've got eight motor outputs. It's like, you know, just do you know what you're really good for?
[1543.2] Jack: go on is
[1545.44] Jack: not linking up uart with the
[1548.94] Jack: i2c
[1550.48] Jack: port and
[1553.2] Jack: LEDs yeah
[1555.84] Jack: Always a good boy
[1557.84] Jack: You're a good boy. Thanks. Jack
[1560.72] Dominic: Yeah, no that is the stuff that takes ages
[1562.88] Dominic: So what I see on a lot of hardware designs is they're basically they get a board they get a processor
[1568.32] Dominic: They stick the processor somewhere in the middle and they basically go
[1571.04] Dominic: Okay
[1571.52] Dominic: I need a pin in this corner to go through a motor there I need a pin in this corner to go to the motor
[1575.04] Dominic: There I need a pin in this corner go to motor here and so on
[1577.68] Dominic: But those pins that you pick on the corners of the chips aren't necessarily the best ones for allowing to do lots of other things
[1583.28] Dominic: with the board at the same time
[1585.28] Dominic: so
[1586.48] Dominic: my designs pay
[1588.24] Dominic: More attention to the features that you want out of the process and the ability to do all the different things you want
[1594.0] Dominic: But rather than the actual routing of the tracks on the pcb
[1598.08] Dominic: It's obviously a lot quicker to just get a pcb and then just
[1601.28] Dominic: Map them to the corners and so on because you can get into production
[1603.6] Dominic: No problem. You can use cheaper boards with two only two layers and things like this
[1607.44] Dominic: So there's quite a few reasons for doing that but you don't normally find me doing that kind of stuff
[1612.64] Dominic: Am I always much more involved?
[1615.52] Jack: Our fcs are 12 layer now 12 layers
[1622.56] Jack: Yeah, yeah factories and beans, um, i've got I have a question because like when
[1630.4] Jack: You did a lovely explanation
[1634.48] Jack: Like the you know, like you had your pseudoscope you ran in parade and
[1639.92] Jack: Uh, you kind of you like clean flight kind of came big when one shot happened
[1646.32] Jack: out like the story of how that started because
[1652.4] Jack: One shot was first available on
[1655.6] Jack: ESC
[1657.68] Jack: And you had to shoulder a jumper
[1660.64] Jack: And they worked really well with the
[1662.64] Jack: The kiss boards on multi-way and then like you upped loop time or something and then everything just
[1669.12] Jack: Came on fire. Yeah, it was going to be like what went wrong like what happened?
[1674.8] Dominic: Well, how do you with one shot side of things? Well, I think time
[1678.56] Dominic: Real sort of dis uh, I found it i'm going to show this in a minute to pull
[1685.2] Jack: Um, I love this so one day there's going to be a museum
[1689.52] Jack: And it's pretty much going to be in spines. It's great
[1692.72] Dominic: You'll know what it is when he sees it split
[1694.72] Dominic: um
[1696.8] Dominic: So
[1697.68] Dominic: Yeah, so the one shot stuff that was quite interesting. There was a lot of experimentation going on that time. Um, I like the idea of one shot
[1706.64] Jack: I think what does one shot do?
[1708.72] Dominic: Uh, it basically just um instead of like a continual pulse or continually changing pulse
[1715.12] Dominic: It basically just sends the pulse on as needed basis
[1719.2] Dominic: Um, so basically you you change the PID output and then that output is immediately sent to the motors
[1724.8] Dominic: That's the basics of it. Whereas the pwm signal basically just continually sends
[1730.4] Dominic: The signal to the motors and what happens is you update the motor
[1734.16] Dominic: Update, sorry the PID output and then some time passes and then the motors get told about it
[1738.24] Dominic: And that's what happens with pwm. Whereas what you want is the motors. Well the esc
[1743.04] Dominic: Specifically it's going to be updated and told about the new state that it should be at as soon as possible
[1747.36] Dominic: And that's what one shot addressed
[1750.4] Dominic: What is the best
[1752.4] Dominic: It wasn't necessarily the best design because it's one shot multi-shot and d shot d shot basically
[1759.44] Dominic: You want a digital protocol?
[1761.68] Tony: but even um chad
[1763.84] Tony: Chad, you know the final glide os says he can't tell the difference when he's flying
[1769.04] Dominic: That's right. You probably wouldn't be able to on a lot of them
[1771.2] Dominic: But the thing is that d shot is much more resilient to noise
[1774.96] Dominic: so with um
[1777.2] Dominic: Pwm and one shot their analog signals. So basically they work by the esc
[1782.88] Dominic: timing
[1784.0] Dominic: the signal that it receives
[1786.4] Dominic: so with an esc you have
[1789.5] Dominic: Variations in how the clocks run so, you know, like most clocks in the world agree that a second is a second
[1795.76] Dominic: But when you're talking about like really minute parts of a second and you're talking about sorry
[1801.44] Jack: I could see this little hamster in his head
[1804.16] Dominic: So when you're talking about you a second is this big when you spit it up
[1808.0] Dominic: A second like this there's variants in the clocks of the processors that are in these and the escs
[1815.28] Dominic: Change in temperature quite a bit as well. So what happens with the processor and when the
[1820.0] Dominic: Temperature changes is that the clock
[1822.16] Dominic: Changes as well. So it doesn't think a second is a second anymore, essentially
[1827.04] Dominic: So then it starts mistiming
[1829.28] Dominic: Or misinterpreting the signal that is on the line. So the flight control is sending it out
[1833.36] Dominic: But esc is misinterpreted and you don't get
[1837.12] Dominic: You don't get a great. Um
[1839.68] Dominic: Picture of what the actual time is so d shot
[1843.2] Jack: There's a clock right there tony and it's not round and it hasn't got any face on it. I said clocks
[1851.6] Dominic: Sorry don't so
[1853.44] Dominic: One way to address this is to use the oscillators like jack
[1856.96] Dominic: Just pointed out on that on that part. But a lot of old escs don't have external resonators
[1861.84] Dominic: um
[1863.12] Dominic: And the resonators have basically like a little bit of crystal inside them and they can work out how fast it's
[1868.88] Dominic: Resonating mine's blowing. He thinks the earth's flat on an oscilloscope. The signal looks like a sine wave. It's great. It's fascinating
[1879.36] Dominic: By not using clocks, uh in the same way
[1883.92] Dominic: Uh, so basically a signal is broken down
[1886.72] Dominic: Um into a digital signal, you know much like cds do
[1890.72] Dominic: um
[1892.0] Dominic: With versus like a record player
[1894.32] Tony: Yeah
[1895.12] Dominic: Um, so basically you can copy it a million times
[1898.32] Dominic: You always retain the original signal for instance in the same applies d shot
[1902.72] Dominic: You can forward it on you can send it over
[1905.68] Dominic: larger distances if you want to relay it if you wanted to but importantly the information is has got some
[1912.8] Dominic: way of uh
[1915.36] Dominic: essentially been
[1918.0] Dominic: Verified with the form of checksum
[1920.72] Dominic: So the signal is sent out that says right spinner motors at uh 50 say
[1927.36] Dominic: And previously with one shot that can be misinterpreted as being like 49 or 51 percent or something like this with d shot
[1934.16] Dominic: That'll never happen because if it doesn't receive the whole packet of information properly, it'll just reject it and ignore it
[1940.32] Dominic: Okay
[1941.12] Dominic: So that's the main thing but one of the other things it lets you do is um instruct the motors to do things
[1947.6] Dominic: so
[1948.72] Dominic: They're starting to use it in 3d flying as well. So basically you can use the full range of the throttle
[1955.68] Dominic: And flying 3d by sending reverse the motors now commands to the esc
[1961.36] Dominic: Um, so you can have uh twice the resolution in 3d flying that you would have had before which is pretty cool
[1967.04] Tony: Um, you can also tell it
[1970.32] Tony: Sorry
[1971.28] Dominic: Oh, yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She will. Yeah, I think it's h tech fpv in the beat flight channel
[1976.32] Dominic: Which um is experimented with a lot of that kind of stuff
[1979.44] Dominic: Um, so that's that's another good reason to use it
[1981.68] Dominic: Another reason is you can make the motors beep the on command
[1984.96] Dominic: You can just go send a signal to make the motors beep, which is great for the beacon
[1988.48] Dominic: So you remember in the in the biheli suite you can figure the beacon timer to be on like after five minutes or whatever
[1995.6] Dominic: um
[1996.24] Dominic: So you can essentially use the d shot stuff to basically have a switch on your transmitter
[2000.8] Dominic: To turn buzzer on and instead of the buzzer being an actual buzzer. It would just pick your motors buzz instead
[2004.64] Tony: Which is pretty cool. Yeah, that is pretty cool
[2010.24] Dominic: Yeah
[2012.7] Dominic: Yeah, so d shot is for the win. It's definitely the way forward
[2016.06] Dominic: I mean it might not be it might not be the be all and end all of protocols and there's probably going to be some other
[2021.1] Dominic: Improvements to that but having a digital protocol with the CRC on it. Is the right direction in my head?
[2031.5] Dominic: Yes, there is that as well there's no calibration required
[2037.1] Dominic: Yeah, which is the reason the calumery was for the clock variants of the eses basically
[2041.5] Dominic: So they understand the signal that the flight control is saying
[2046.38] Jack: Pro shop
[2047.58] Dominic: So let me let me just show this to white spy his white spy looking in the chat hold on
[2052.54] Dominic: Uh, he sent me this like ages ago when clean flight was first started out. It is
[2058.94] Dominic: a current sensor
[2061.42] Dominic: And he wrote this and he sent me this like ages ago. I didn't even know this guy who it was
[2065.26] Dominic: I think I ordered something and he sent this
[2068.22] Dominic: Can you guys read that? No
[2071.34] Tony: If you talk as well, that's it
[2074.22] Tony: It's say stuff as well because it
[2077.98] Dominic: Many users ask if these power current units work with your software
[2082.62] Dominic: He sent me this and the answer today is I don't know i've never had time to test it
[2090.06] Dominic: But it's been sat in my box of like random stuff that I use for testing for like a million times
[2096.3] Dominic: And i've like i've seen it like so many times. It's like in this box of like loads of stuff
[2101.9] Dominic: It's brilliant. So sorry paul
[2105.82] Tony: Will it play me what an awesome
[2109.18] Tony: White spy says will it play music?
[2111.74] Dominic: Uh, it can do yeah
[2112.86] Dominic: You can probably make you because you can send a beeper thing and you can probably also send like a command to say like low medium
[2118.3] Dominic: High or no to whatever like this so you can probably do that. Um, there has been some improvements
[2124.22] Dominic: I believe to the protocol and it's also nice that the kiss guys and the bl heli guys
[2131.18] Dominic: Are also agreeing on the command set for d shot as well that happened quite recently
[2135.1] Dominic: There's some new commands and they're both implementing it in their esees and release it firmly
[2139.34] Dominic: So it's great to see the collaboration on the ese side of things. Yeah, it's always good
[2143.66] Tony: I mean, it's good to a healthy competition, but it's always good when
[2147.26] Tony: When companies agree on it's yeah, tell me about it
[2151.1] Dominic: It's a pain in the ass for a flight controller because with the flight controller code
[2154.46] Dominic: You've got to go I support this support this I support this I support this I support this I support this
[2158.54] Dominic: And before you know it your flight control has got to do loads of stuff and every time someone adds something new on it
[2164.06] Dominic: Everyone that's right flight controller stuff
[2165.5] Dominic: basically has to test that it works with this thing and the old thing and the old thing and the new new thing and
[2171.74] Dominic: All the different variations of it
[2173.1] Dominic: So if everyone can agree then it just makes it a lot easier
[2176.62] Dominic: And we can delete loads of old code and then fit more things in the core core flight controller code
[2180.78] Jack: just going to show you about small audio and
[2184.54] Dominic: Yeah, that's the other protocol. Yeah, the other one that the uh,
[2187.42] Dominic: Emotionrc and the tbs one using different protocols
[2191.02] Dominic: Yes
[2191.66] Dominic: It would have been lovely if they got together and said shall we design a protocol for doing vtx related things?
[2197.1] Dominic: And agreed on it and then both released products and then said to us
[2200.62] Dominic: This is how we want to do it or even asked us what it was at the time
[2203.9] Dominic: but now we have two different ones and
[2207.02] Dominic: Much of a muchness to be honest in terms of like
[2209.74] Dominic: What you can do with the vtx, you know, you can set a channel you can do a pit mode
[2213.66] Dominic: And you can do a couple of other bits, you know change channel change frequency change pit mode turn it on and off
[2218.94] Dominic: Basically, those are the main things you need to do with the vtx, right?
[2221.66] Dominic: It's not rocket science
[2223.34] Dominic: So it would have been good if they could have collaborated on that so we don't have to then support two of them forever more going
[2228.38] Dominic: forwards
[2229.42] Jack: Yeah
[2231.5] Jack: Um, what's by asks?
[2234.54] Jack: Go to gyro and why
[2238.41] Dominic: What is my go to gyro and why?
[2241.21] Dominic: well
[2242.65] Dominic: There's been a lot of talk about gyros. Um, i'm currently favoring the icm 2 0 6 0
[2249.45] Dominic: 2
[2250.57] Dominic: i've tried and on various dim prototypes the
[2255.83] Dominic: 6,000 6 500 92 50
[2258.97] Dominic: The 2 0 6 0 8 the 2 0 6 8 9 g and the 2 0 6 0 2
[2263.05] Dominic: But i'm liking the 2 0 6 0 2
[2265.29] Dominic: for a few reasons
[2267.53] Dominic: um
[2269.29] Dominic: One of the reasons is a cost reason
[2271.85] Dominic: Um, another reason is the size of it. It's very very small
[2276.33] Dominic: So a lot of people are using it on the really mini mini things. It's great for that
[2280.89] Dominic: Um, but some people have issues with the newer ones with the the noise, but there are solutions for that
[2289.05] Dominic: So, I mean the filtering side of things can help with that as we've you know
[2292.33] Dominic: People are talking about filters and so on soft mounting can help with that kind of stuff
[2296.17] Dominic: um, but the way that the flight controllers and the frames are these days
[2301.21] Dominic: And the loops that people run there's just a lot more noise going on
[2304.81] Dominic: um
[2305.77] Dominic: In terms of like the frame and how powerful the motors are has made a massive difference because ages ago
[2310.89] Dominic: We were running like dys
[2312.41] Dominic: 60, you know, whatever it was and with flat
[2315.77] Dominic: this kind of stuff, right
[2317.69] Dominic: and
[2318.73] Dominic: You know and we were running like 3.5 millisecond loop times and things like that which is crazy compared to what we're doing now
[2324.97] Dominic: Um
[2326.17] Dominic: And it's it's the way you ever look back at some of that stuff a lot different these days
[2331.69] Jack: Um, there's six
[2334.17] Jack: But just think what the
[2336.81] Jack: Was I doing?
[2339.21] Dominic: Yeah, when you get an old code out you look at the old config you're like, whoa, I flew that wow
[2346.97] Dominic: It's great we flew it around it was fantastic it was it was brilliant my my my disco
[2353.21] Dominic: That's flying now. That was that was running on uh, three and a half, uh, millisecond loop times it flew excellently
[2359.05] Dominic: I was flying it around the Alps. It was great. Loved it
[2362.57] Tony: Oh
[2363.37] Tony: Go fast though. Is it around the track?
[2366.09] Tony: uh
[2368.25] Dominic: No, probably not I mean like
[2371.69] Dominic: Not compared to like a 5s monster crazy things that people find these days. Oh my god, they're crazy
[2379.37] Jack: Oh curry kitten
[2381.93] Jack: Um, I noticed he had some public
[2385.45] Jack: Good over copies and the spf3 board
[2388.57] Jack: Told people it was open source and he argued this
[2394.25] Jack: What was this? So I was interested to know if you've got any further or are you talking to a brick wall?
[2399.85] Dominic: Oh brick wall. Don't buy it from banggood. They're evil. Um, they just promote like clone selling basically and it's yeah
[2407.93] Dominic: Um, yeah, it's hard to find the legend. It's not copied yet. Yeah
[2413.37] Jack: I'm so sorry guys. I keep talking over you. It's so out of sync
[2418.17] Jack: This stream it is a bit out. It is a bit out. See sorry. I feel like such an arsehole
[2424.17] Jack: Should we do this little thing? Like put your hand up if you want to talk
[2430.33] Dominic: Yeah, no banggood, uh, I didn't get in love with it
[2433.85] Dominic: When I tried to talk to them I posted uh initially on
[2438.25] Dominic: one of their
[2439.61] Dominic: comments section when I saw a clone of my board
[2442.81] Dominic: And I just made somewhat to find it and they actually screwed it up as well
[2447.13] Dominic: Like they didn't even do the routing properly. The board was designed to be a stackable board and they put connectors over where the two
[2452.81] Dominic: Stacking connectors are supposed to be and it's like you muppets
[2456.41] Dominic: Um, yeah, they screwed up like buzzer stuff. The quality was shocking. Um, yeah, it's just
[2462.01] Dominic: Yeah, cheap
[2464.17] Dominic: Find as well when they've cloned stuff
[2466.25] Dominic: so when I design a board, um, I use components which are known to
[2471.85] Dominic: Start the over specify all the components basically
[2474.81] Dominic: And when you get a clone manufacturer, they basically just go. Oh, we don't need a
[2479.13] Dominic: Uh a 10 volt capacitor. Let's just use a 6.3 volt one or whatever like this
[2483.77] Dominic: It's like no you're you're ruining the design if you do that stuff
[2487.53] Dominic: so
[2488.49] Dominic: Yeah, buy the clone boards
[2491.37] Dominic: It's they don't contribute anything to the uh to the hobby as well. So
[2495.61] Dominic: I'll make a board. I sit there designing it for ages
[2498.17] Dominic: Um spend loads of time writing the software and getting all that kind of things up to speed with it all
[2503.29] Dominic: And then you release the board then the board gets cloned and then the people that walk away with all the money
[2508.41] Dominic: Is the the cloners and they don't invest any of it back into the hobby at all
[2512.17] Dominic: They basically just line their own pockets. So it's not it's not good for the hobby
[2517.77] Tony: No
[2519.29] Jack: Can I go?
[2521.85] Jack: In garden furniture
[2524.01] Jack: And windbreaker jackets, sorry go tony. You didn't put your hand up jack
[2529.77] Jack: Sorry
[2531.77] Tony: Is clean flight
[2535.61] Tony: Flight at the moment or are you two separate entities still on the what sorry?
[2540.49] Tony: I didn't actually break up just like are you both a clean flight and beautiful like the same thing at the moment
[2546.97] Dominic: Very similar at the moment. Yeah, um, so there are differences between them, but very few
[2552.01] Dominic: um
[2553.77] Dominic: So when I get some more time, which isn't right now I have some plans
[2560.09] Dominic: But i'm not going to go into the details of it. Just yeah, i'm going to wait and see how things progress
[2565.77] Dominic: um
[2566.97] Dominic: I have a feeling that some of my plans might not be liked by the beat flight crowd
[2571.05] Dominic: But some of them will be liked by others. So
[2574.49] Dominic: We're going to see how it progresses but at the moment they're very closely linked. So
[2578.17] Dominic: Clean flight 2.1 beat of flight 3.2. You know almost identical in terms of like flight performance and so on
[2584.73] Dominic: There'll be a new version of clean flight out
[2586.81] Dominic: Probably slightly after the beat of flight 3.2 comes out to keep them in sync as well
[2591.69] Dominic: but I think
[2593.13] Dominic: Clean flight 2.1 is ahead of the latest version the latest stable version of beat of flight
[2599.13] Tony: But that the latest stable
[2602.09] Tony: First beat of flight is 1.7. Isn't it because 3.2 i'm hearing. I think it's 3.1. Seven. Yeah
[2608.81] Tony: In quite a few problems with yeah
[2613.45] Dominic: Yeah, and some of those problems will also exist in clean flight. Yeah, so
[2617.45] Tony: Okay, so
[2618.97] Tony: Don't don't rush hold on until it's yeah, I I basically
[2623.29] Dominic: Um was sinking it quite closely
[2625.85] Dominic: And then there were some other changes which hadn't been properly tested and that I didn't want those
[2630.57] Dominic: I didn't trust those features yet and i've been doing a lot of my own testing and i'm like
[2634.49] Dominic: I don't want those features
[2635.45] Dominic: But I do want some of these other things
[2637.13] Dominic: So I kept all there kept all the fixes and all that kind of stuff and that made it into clean flight 2.1
[2642.57] Dominic: And then there's some more experimental stuff, which is still happening in the 3.2 beat of flight
[2648.41] Jack: Okay, um
[2652.57] Jack: Do you know anything about the active filtering?
[2655.77] Dominic: Active filtering i've had a look at some of the code. I haven't delved into it too much
[2660.57] Dominic: um
[2661.69] Dominic: but uh, yes, it's um
[2664.25] Dominic: It's it's a good idea
[2666.57] Dominic: So basically dynamic dynamic filtering, I think they call it not active filtering
[2670.73] Dominic: um, so the idea is that this just figures out where the um, the vibrations are which is good because um,
[2677.37] Dominic: I've always thought that the uh, notch filters great idea, but the
[2681.45] Dominic: Your quad basically wears out over time
[2684.25] Dominic: Um, yeah
[2685.53] Dominic: And then it has different vibration properties in over time as well because of the way that it wears out
[2691.13] Dominic: um, so your bearings get worn your motors don't run as well as they did and therefore that changes the vibrations that the flight controller receives
[2698.17] Dominic: And the frequencies that they received that you crash your frame a few times into trees or whatever like this
[2703.05] Dominic: That'll change the properties of the frame as well. So
[2705.85] Dominic: Yeah, unless you're retuning it all the time
[2708.57] Dominic: You know your your initial settings aren't going to be necessarily the best after like a bit of use
[2714.49] Dominic: So the active filtering helps to combat that and is also good for new people. Um
[2721.29] Jack: Posted a question in the chat. You might want to
[2724.41] Jack: Think about that if you don't want to answer just shake your head and then we can always talk about zeros
[2731.45] Jack: hot motors
[2733.45] Jack: Do you want to that maybe last?
[2736.09] Jack: Please answer that that is funny. He'll never listen to this
[2739.29] Dominic: I
[2741.29] Dominic: I'm banned from the from the base flight get out thing
[2746.65] Dominic: Yeah
[2747.69] Dominic: I know. Yeah, I was doing backports into base flight for the bugs that I found
[2752.57] Dominic: And then I got banned from it. So I can't I can't comment on it and I can't
[2756.97] Dominic: Do prs or anything like that against base flight somewhere. Okay. Well, that's the nail in that coffin then
[2762.01] Dominic: And I'll crack on and then the world will crack on with me
[2765.53] Jack: Write your reply to that and I will send that to curry again
[2773.29] Jack: And no one will ever see it except him
[2776.97] Jack: um
[2778.01] Dominic: Mine is I don't think it's done. What is curry kitten? I don't even know
[2782.73] Dominic: What is curry kitten it is the best I am living under a rock at the moment
[2787.29] Dominic: You guys realize this there's a mountain of code. I'm living under it's all up there
[2792.33] Jack: Go on to youtube. You are typing curry kitten and subscribe to him. This is this is uh
[2800.49] Jack: Curry this is sub bomb everyone sub curry kitten
[2805.29] Jack: Have you? I have no idea what curry is. What is it? Curry kitten? He does like a youtube review
[2812.33] Jack: It's around he like works on a
[2815.61] Jack: like lizard wizard lizard wizard
[2819.37] Dominic: Oh, it's pv
[2822.33] Jack: And he's just got a charming channel. He's a good guy
[2826.81] Dominic: There you go, click subscribe, we'll see what comes up
[2829.45] Jack: Yes
[2830.57] Jack: Yeah, I don't know. I like it. He was like flying his wing. He's telling me about he had a starbucks today
[2837.21] Jack: I remember
[2838.57] Jack: Yeah, all good. I love it. Great content
[2842.01] Dominic: I there was something in the in that you have a moment reminded me now. There was something on the uh
[2848.01] Dominic: On the on the base flight
[2851.21] Dominic: Agreement or something wasn't there?
[2854.73] Dominic: Yeah, there was that I remember that
[2861.85] Dominic: Because it's against the terms of the gpr license or something like that, so
[2865.85] Dominic: It was quite funny
[2867.37] Dominic: Yes, that's a long time ago to be honest. I don't even pay any any thought whatsoever to all that stuff
[2872.65] Dominic: It's just like it's just code. It's just let's just code
[2876.65] Dominic: It's all just make things better and code stuff and it's just going to be good
[2879.37] Dominic: So I don't worry about all the politics and all this kind of stuff. So I hate all that stuff
[2885.21] Dominic: I'm creating cool stuff basically much much more appropriate and constructive use of my time
[2892.25] Jack: Sounds like a war's happening above tony
[2895.13] Tony: Yeah, there is there's someone having fireworks out there and jr hates fireworks and he's
[2900.33] Tony: Um currently buried under his bed at the moment
[2904.97] Tony: He's got to see if he's arrived. Yeah, he's he's fine. I've just covered him up
[2910.25] Tony: But someone's yeah something's having a party or something behind me
[2914.57] Jack: Someone's got a couple of someone's got new motors and they're getting very hot. Hang on
[2920.89] Jack: Yeah, my new motor is getting very hot any ideas. They're not connected to a flight controller
[2926.41] Jack: What that's a bit weird screws don't touch the windings any idea
[2932.41] Dominic: Did they ever touch the windings because you know that might
[2936.33] Dominic: Screw it up because if they ever did then you might have created a shot
[2940.01] Dominic: Yeah, but it might not be now
[2941.21] Dominic: but if they did then you might have already squished the winding wire together because it's basically enamel wire and
[2947.77] Dominic: If you break the enamel off you can make it short out if you squish the windings together
[2951.37] Dominic: So if you've done that then that might be a problem
[2954.01] Dominic: uh could be
[2956.01] Dominic: the motors normally only get hot if they're stalled and um
[2960.33] Dominic: You send too much current through them. Basically, that's when they they start to heat up. Um
[2965.61] Jack: There is one exception if the developer viewing or updating the code is named dominick lifton
[2972.25] Jack: Yes, the one the modified
[2975.29] Jack: Hydra license supplies as below
[2978.49] Jack: Yeah
[2980.49] Dominic: Yeah, so I had a very strict license agreement for so irc client software that I wrote hydra irc
[2986.89] Dominic: Which is quite popular. I still use it all the time. Um, and I had a very restrictive license on that for a good reason
[2992.65] Dominic: um
[2993.45] Dominic: And it doesn't apply to the stuff i'm doing at the moment
[2995.85] Dominic: And I think time got found it's funny because he's basically a troll
[2999.29] Dominic: So, you know, he just likes to poke people but I don't care
[3003.93] Dominic: It's just like don't care about that stuff
[3006.89] Tony: How how how excited should we be for your?
[3011.37] Tony: uh new stuff coming out should vary and
[3015.77] Tony: and can ldo clients
[3018.81] Tony: Me and jack get some sent to us free. Uh, no because as I explained it at the part cost
[3026.81] Dominic: Is
[3030.81] Dominic: Yeah, good try everyone will be trying that no, um
[3034.25] Dominic: Um, I would love to be able to hand them out as like free cakes, you know
[3038.97] Dominic: But the reality of this situation is i've had to just spend the whole boatload of money getting the whole you know
[3044.17] Dominic: These things were made up and this money's got to come from somewhere
[3048.73] Tony: It's actually amazing much you spent you just told me how much you spend before the we went live and I was like, oh my god
[3056.09] Tony: No wonder you you know
[3058.01] Dominic: Yeah, when you when you're making a new product you have to order like a a certain quantity of them before the manufacturing houses
[3063.77] Dominic: They'll even talk to you
[3065.61] Dominic: um
[3066.41] Dominic: So if you're doing less than a thousand, uh, your choices are few and far between
[3071.45] Dominic: If you're doing less than 500 your choices are even fewer and you don't necessarily always want to be making a load of these boards
[3078.25] Dominic: If you're not even sure whether you can sell them whether people want to pay for them
[3081.85] Dominic: Because what i've learned over the last couple of years, it seems to be this finite point
[3086.01] Dominic: Where if you try and sell something over a certain price point that people just aren't going to want to buy it
[3090.89] Dominic: um
[3092.25] Dominic: Compounded with that is the the demand of retailers for about a 20 to 30 margin
[3097.77] Dominic: um
[3098.97] Dominic: So when you're running on very low margins and you've got to compete with the chinese price, um
[3105.29] Dominic: then trying to release a new product in today's market where there's no room for error and
[3112.41] Dominic: It's just really really difficult trying to keep the prices down in small limited quantities. So I don't know why anyone buys clones
[3120.65] Tony: I've had it's just yeah, but they're never worth it. They're never ever worth it the time you've
[3128.89] Tony: You've used it and and and they go wrong easily. They they just don't fly as well
[3135.37] Tony: it's a pointless you might as well just do the real deal and and
[3140.65] Jack: I've just bought I banned tony from buying clones a long time ago
[3146.25] Tony: I bought a couple of dodos and and they were just horrific, you know, the real ones I had
[3152.81] Tony: Dodo thing story from america. They worked fine, but the ones
[3156.97] Dominic: The what were cloned were absolutely horrendous. Well, even even the original dodo boards, um had design faults
[3163.21] Dominic: I mean they had to go through about like three or four revisions of the pcb to get like some basic things
[3168.89] Dominic: Just working on it and it's like you design a product and they're basically shipping their prototypes
[3174.41] Dominic: Essentially is what I saw with the original dodo boards
[3177.29] Dominic: Um, and they use the cheaper processor as well, which only had half of the flash ram, of course
[3181.69] Dominic: Which wasn't you know, how we designed to use f3s
[3184.73] Dominic: We wanted the f3s
[3186.33] Dominic: The baseline to be the one with the 256k flash and they put on the 128k flash
[3192.09] Dominic: At the time it fitted but you know now it doesn't fit in 128
[3195.77] Dominic: You can't use an original dodo board
[3197.53] Dominic: But you can still use original sb racing f3
[3199.85] Dominic: And the design of the original sb racing f3 never had to be revised and its entire history
[3204.17] Dominic: Because it was done right to start with so yeah
[3206.49] Dominic: It's a dodo board it had to like like say three or four different revisions on it where they kept screwing things up
[3211.93] Tony: Always by original. It's not worth it. Is there is there anything?
[3216.81] Tony: um
[3218.17] Tony: Better than f4
[3220.17] Dominic: Gonna come out with like well, I mean there's quite a few f7 boards like there's uh, there's a fury one
[3225.69] Dominic: I think maytech are probably doing one
[3228.57] Dominic: Um, there's omnibus ones. Yeah, there's a bunch of f7 stuff
[3232.33] Dominic: The thing with the f7s at the moment is the um, the code isn't quite there
[3235.69] Dominic: There's the process is very new and the developers myself included haven't uh yet had enough experience with them to get the most out of them
[3244.17] Dominic: Um, so we're finding out new stuff with these processes like all the time
[3247.61] Dominic: Um, even just working on the boards is is pretty difficult. So like I mean I can show you like on my desk here
[3254.41] Dominic: I've got this
[3255.77] Dominic: little thing here
[3257.21] Dominic: Whereas this is uh a debugger
[3260.65] Dominic: So normally you buy a debugger and you plug it into your board and you can go debug your processor
[3265.53] Dominic: Anyway, you go, but because some of the f7 processors are so new the firmware on the debugger doesn't support it
[3271.77] Dominic: So then you go, okay. Can I have a debugger that works with f7 and
[3275.61] Dominic: um
[3277.61] Dominic: Really really hard to find it's like the ones that come on the original st boards they sort of work
[3282.73] Dominic: But the st link software is a bit, uh, and there's better debug software out
[3287.05] Dominic: Um, so even just writing code for an f7 is a pain in the ass at the moment
[3290.49] Dominic: Just getting it onto the processor and running it. It's just yeah, there's problems
[3296.01] Tony: Like my um, uh, i'm running f4 board with beta flight on
[3301.37] Tony: and with everything working
[3303.53] Tony: Um, it's like three percent. Yeah, that's not flying that's on the bench
[3308.33] Dominic: Yeah, so on the bench it's doing more than it is when it's flying by the way
[3311.77] Dominic: So is it really do you remember that?
[3313.77] Dominic: Yeah, because you've got a usb connection to it, right?
[3316.17] Dominic: And then it's got an answer like how fast are you going? How fast are you going?
[3319.77] Dominic: How fast are you going like all the time when it's flying like it just sits there going. Yeah ready. Let's go
[3325.37] Tony: Okay. So my point is what is it if we go f7 like people are doing
[3332.41] Tony: What is um the point and what will it improve?
[3337.21] Dominic: Um, well, there's various things. So the f4 is a bad choice for flight controllers. Um
[3342.89] Dominic: In terms of like the electronic side of things because it doesn't support things natively that the f3 does like such as the
[3349.37] Dominic: Invertible serial ports. So then he needs additional inverters, which increases the cost of it
[3354.25] Dominic: So it's not only the process is more expensive
[3355.93] Dominic: You need a whole bunch of other things unless you need more room to put all the different jumpers on to move, you know
[3360.97] Dominic: Then I want an inverter on or not and most of the f4 boards don't have telemetry for instance
[3365.69] Dominic: They don't have smart port telemetry. There's only a few that do
[3368.65] Dominic: um
[3370.33] Dominic: So the f4 is not the greatest choice now the f7 has basically got all the nice things from the f3 in terms of like the iO
[3376.63] Dominic: flexibility
[3377.69] Dominic: But it also brings a bit much faster clock speed which is what we want if we're running and not overclocking things
[3383.69] Dominic: if we want to run
[3385.45] Dominic: You know 32 kilohertz gyros as well as all the other features that people want like active filtering and dynamic filtering and so on like that
[3392.41] Dominic: Which eat cpu cycles?
[3395.05] Dominic: so
[3396.09] Dominic: Yeah, f7s are definitely a better choice than the f4s
[3400.81] Tony: So that's that's the new thing and it's going to be f7. Yep, definitely
[3407.29] Dominic: And it's
[3408.97] Dominic: also available
[3410.73] Dominic: Sorry to talk over there. They're also available with
[3413.45] Dominic: larger amounts of flash ramp
[3415.45] Dominic: So what you're also seeing is tighter integration these days and you know more things like vtx protocols and all this kind of stuff
[3422.25] Dominic: So with an f7
[3423.53] Dominic: You don't have to choose between what you put on it in terms of like the software
[3426.65] Dominic: You can put everything that clean flight and beat flight support on it
[3429.69] Dominic: Whereas with the f3s and f4s, uh, a lot of them are using the smaller flash
[3436.73] Dominic: Uh flashrom so you can't fit all the features on it
[3439.61] Dominic: So you have to choose between it and then it's a trade-off thing and that's a pain in the ass
[3444.41] Jack: Uh, yeah the guineast
[3446.73] Jack: Post costs many times too much
[3449.85] Jack: to hear in fenderland at least
[3452.49] Jack: Guinness buys a board from you. Yeah, where you post it to him
[3457.69] Jack: economy and as a gift
[3461.05] Dominic: I know the postage on the site is a problem
[3463.69] Dominic: We're restricted in that regard. Um, because what happens is that you'll get someone and
[3469.77] Dominic: They'll buy a board and they'll say we didn't receive it
[3472.81] Dominic: And then you have to send them a new one
[3475.05] Dominic: And in today's marketplace with and you can blame the cloners quite a bit for this as well
[3480.33] Dominic: Because what's happened like I say we're running on very low profit margins
[3483.45] Dominic: So someone loses a board and we have to send a new one
[3486.73] Dominic: Because it doesn't turn up in the post
[3488.65] Dominic: Then yeah, we have to pay for the cost of two boards and then that wipes out any profit
[3492.57] Dominic: We have to pay for two lots of postage and there's no refund on that
[3494.97] Dominic: So we have to send everything out recorded delivery so that we know it gets there
[3499.61] Dominic: Because otherwise what happens is the person receiving the board then files files a complaint with paypal
[3504.25] Dominic: And then the money gets taken out of our bank account straight when without any questions asked
[3508.41] Dominic: um
[3509.69] Jack: So that's economy record
[3511.77] Dominic: however, um
[3515.13] Dominic: This situation will be changing when I move to Spain
[3518.41] Dominic: Because the spanish postage service is much cheaper than the rip-off royal mail crap that we have to do at the moment
[3523.45] Dominic: When I moved back from spain, I had to increase the prices by about four pounds
[3528.65] Dominic: Not four pound for the postage for an increase of about four pounds. It's ridiculous
[3532.49] Dominic: So the spanish postage is good. It works if it gets there. So that'll be happening soon
[3536.89] Dominic: So anything all the european people are going to be happy and all the uk people are going to be going damn it
[3541.93] Dominic: The posters is like oh it's less than it is now great
[3545.61] Dominic: Hey
[3545.93] Dominic: What so I can actually ship something from spain to uk for less than the price from uk to uk when I leave just
[3552.49] Dominic: It's that stupid. Thank royal mail. Basically is the answer petition them. Yes, just throw eggs at them or something. I don't know
[3560.73] Jack: That is hilarious
[3562.41] Jack: Have you ever thought about a sabotage plan for the clone? There's like releasing like the clone
[3568.97] Jack: the seriously
[3572.01] Jack: I know it's been like when they're bored and keeping it on the wraps. They're not that stupid
[3576.49] Jack: They're not that stupid. No, but then have it like, you know rigged so that as soon as they put a
[3581.61] Jack: A fake part on there or a cheaper part. It just blows up
[3586.97] Dominic: No, it's not worth my time doing it
[3589.29] Dominic: I've got to be funny. Like I say i'd rather just spend time creating cool stuff
[3593.85] Jack: Oh
[3595.37] Jack: Only rc asks, how can we stop the clones?
[3598.65] Dominic: Not by not buying them. That is the only way you will stop them. Yeah
[3603.13] Dominic: They will basically go. Oh, we're not making any money. Let's go find something else to do
[3607.37] Dominic: That is it. That's all you can do. Don't buy them
[3610.97] Dominic: Tell all your friends
[3612.57] Tony: They never work properly. Anyway, I don't see the point. Why do people even bother? I know they're cheaper at the time
[3618.09] Tony: But there's no point. That's right
[3621.05] Tony: Absolutely. No point. Yeah
[3623.37] Jack: Uh, any questions guys before we go?
[3627.21] Jack: Um, what time is it now?
[3631.85] Jack: No, man, it's t-shirt on
[3634.49] Jack: Anson here
[3636.81] Jack: Please can you send me a clean flight t-shirt marco spv?
[3644.09] Tony: I have a box. Um, there's also some oil on it
[3646.89] Dominic: Well, for the UK drone show last year i've got a whole bunch of them made and I do actually have a box t-shirts
[3652.33] Dominic: I I gave a couple out at the uh
[3655.05] Dominic: the um
[3656.17] Dominic: the drone
[3657.61] Dominic: Fb league thingamajigamy that was alexandra palace recently. That was good. Okay. Um, but there are there are some but if people um
[3666.49] Dominic: The best way of getting a clean flight t-shirt
[3668.65] Dominic: Easiest way is to click on the clean flight donation button
[3672.89] Dominic: Right and then in the comments just say send me a t-shirt and if your donation is over 15
[3679.85] Dominic: Yeah, then we can sort one out for you and put your address in it and what size
[3684.33] Jack: Rotorice says hello, by the way rotorice
[3687.93] Dominic: Ah, hello
[3692.41] Tony: Can we get a t-shirt to give away on ldi you gotta press the donation button
[3697.45] Dominic: Oh to give away
[3699.93] Dominic: Yeah, we can we can give away we can give away a t-shirt i've gotta
[3703.05] Dominic: I have some t-shirts
[3704.89] Tony: That sounds good. We can do a little little compy compy for that maybe
[3710.01] Jack: You are you are going to give a forward to pay the 360
[3713.77] Dominic: on you
[3716.01] Dominic: Yes, yes, and he normally gets aboard because he does some fantastic videos for everybody
[3723.45] Dominic: He saves me a lot of time by answering
[3726.57] Dominic: People's many many questions. I think otherwise with the painless 360 videos i'd spend a lot more time
[3733.21] Dominic: answering support questions
[3736.33] Dominic: How do they get hold of the schematics
[3739.61] Tony: raid out what um
[3741.93] Dominic: Uh, they they never get the solace says
[3745.21] Dominic: The cloners you're referring to right?
[3747.37] Dominic: Yeah, they don't get the schematics. Um, basically just get the circuit board. They take the components off
[3752.97] Dominic: They take away the mask layer and they etch the board back down and then they basically work out where what the components are
[3759.21] Dominic: And where they all go and it's not rocket science to clone a flight controller board because you basically look at the st
[3764.89] Dominic: Data sheet you look at the data sheet that comes with the
[3767.93] Dominic: Accelerometer
[3769.13] Dominic: And the gyro you look at a couple other parts on the board and you can pretty much work out what the components are by what is
[3774.01] Dominic: Connected to them
[3775.53] Dominic: Uh, and then you you can also measure the parts that you take off and away you go
[3780.97] Dominic: And you can work out what the schematics gives by reverse engineering like that. They're very very good at it
[3788.01] Tony: Here's a little big up for you, uh
[3791.53] Tony: I'm not going to pronounce this right mattie carla fbv would like to say
[3796.41] Tony: Thanks dominic. You're one of the few that have made a profound
[3800.89] Tony: Difference to this industry. So there you go. There's a
[3805.45] Dominic: There's a nice
[3814.41] Tony: There is a lot of drama
[3819.29] Dominic: Too much drama just like
[3821.61] Dominic: Just do create stuff. I'll look at it and tell you whether it's cool or not
[3825.93] Dominic: And uh, I'll think stuff and if you like it great use it if not, that's fine, too
[3832.17] Jack: But this
[3834.65] Jack: And I asked can you explain the pros and details of pepperfish isd compared to conventional isd chip
[3841.93] Dominic: Used on current fcs. That's what I was trying to remember. Yes
[3846.57] Dominic: um
[3847.45] Dominic: I haven't looked at his schematics because I think he publishes schematics
[3850.73] Dominic: But even he is having problems with the clone that's copying all his stuff
[3854.89] Dominic: So he is now
[3857.61] Dominic: Less willing to share his designs basically and until he gets his boards out and so on
[3863.77] Dominic: Whereas before I think he used to just like release the schematics and so on like straight away
[3868.17] Dominic: um
[3869.61] Dominic: There has been
[3871.21] Dominic: Sort of stagnation in the in osd side of things for quite a while
[3875.29] Dominic: um
[3876.09] Dominic: I think the only two notable osds that i've come across was the one that was on the vortex because they used
[3881.37] Dominic: I think it was an f3 processor for the osd and there was also the brain
[3885.85] Dominic: brain fdb
[3887.21] Dominic: Which um used the main flight controller to the osd
[3891.37] Dominic: But the osd don't push but the most most of the boards use the the max chip
[3898.09] Dominic: The max 7 4 5 6 chip, which is character base, which isn't it's okay
[3901.37] Dominic: I mean it's useful, but it's not as good as it should be and because of this
[3906.33] Dominic: um
[3908.89] Dominic: The minimum osds and all this old code and the porting of that code into beta flight and so on this
[3914.09] Dominic: max
[3915.21] Dominic: 7 4 5 6 chip has been um around for much longer than I think it should have been
[3920.49] Dominic: um
[3921.37] Dominic: But now pepper fish is doing a whole bunch of work in beta flight to
[3926.73] Dominic: Basically make it so that osd code can then work with other types of osds instead of the max 7 4 5 6 chip
[3933.21] Dominic: Which is what I initially did in the clean flight code
[3935.85] Dominic: About a year ago when I did the um f3 osd board that I made
[3941.13] Dominic: Um, so it was abstracted away basically, so you could retarget it against any
[3945.61] Dominic: Osd video driver and then you can have a different
[3948.01] Dominic: implementation
[3948.97] Dominic: So what my goal was about a year or so ago was to do
[3951.77] Dominic: A first cut of an osd which uses a max 7 4 5 6 chip and then design a new f new osd
[3957.13] Dominic: Which is a vector based one which also then use the same code, but yeah things changed
[3963.05] Dominic: So that never happened, unfortunately, but it's good to see so when I was thinking
[3967.61] Dominic: And moving the industry forward, which is good. So I hope he does release
[3971.85] Dominic: The schematics for it because one thing that's been
[3976.25] Dominic: Um, one thing that drives this industry is openness
[3979.53] Dominic: um
[3980.57] Dominic: And I think there does need to be some
[3983.45] Dominic: Some changes in the osd side of things
[3986.17] Dominic: But I could I will totally understand it if he doesn't want to release his schematics though
[3990.81] Dominic: Being in the position i've been in for about the last couple of years or so
[3994.57] Dominic: Seeing how the industry works
[3997.05] Jack: Yeah
[3998.17] Jack: Just feel like you get raped all the time. Yeah, there's a lot of that
[4002.41] Jack: And then also you've got things where people do it
[4006.97] Jack: And you're just like why did you do it like that? Yeah, there's not only
[4011.61] Jack: For you, but it's also destroying people's stuff
[4016.97] Jack: And it does go wrong
[4019.37] Jack: Yeah
[4020.89] Jack: So shane really that's right. Yeah
[4023.37] Dominic: Yeah, no, it'll be good to see um a new um osd. That's uh open source sort of like design basically
[4030.01] Dominic: Um, if he doesn't release the the schematics but releases the software
[4033.85] Dominic: It's you know, i'm sure that um someone else will work out how it actually works
[4038.89] Dominic: Based on how the software works, but obviously that becomes a lot much trickier
[4043.05] Dominic: So if he releases the software first and then releases the schematics later, that'll still be good for everybody because then he'll
[4048.57] Dominic: Make some money. Um
[4050.65] Dominic: For his and get rewarded for his work, which he deserves
[4053.85] Dominic: um
[4054.89] Dominic: And then if he releases it later and everyone else can benefit from it and you know
[4058.41] Dominic: See the osd in the different form factors and so on because while fish peppers designs might suit him
[4064.01] Dominic: And some of the people that fly the same kind of things that he flies they might also suit
[4068.73] Dominic: They might not suit other people that want to run different things in different ways. So they don't have any alternative
[4075.21] Dominic: So it'd be good to see some different alternatives
[4078.41] Dominic: In the physical layout of things, I mean
[4083.45] Jack: Is there any more no question no more questions so we we can um, I thought we'd be on here forever
[4093.37] Tony: How long have we got to wait on until we get excited for your new um
[4098.09] Tony: Items that will just start getting excited now and that'll be okay. I'm already excited. There you go then
[4107.0] Tony: i'm saying
[4110.6] Dominic: Yeah
[4118.52] Dominic: When you see it and try it
[4121.4] Dominic: You'll wonder how you ever did without it
[4123.56] Tony: You say that again because you cut it out when you see it and try it
[4127.72] Dominic: You'll wonder how you ever did without it
[4130.52] Tony: Wow, you hear you heard it here folks
[4134.36] Dominic: She's completely dead right now. I have no idea what's going on with it
[4137.72] UNKNOWN: Yeah
[4138.76] Tony: Well, thanks for coming on show
[4141.24] Tony: We're really sorry. It went all a bit funny and we're 20 minutes late and stuff like that, right?
[4147.48] Tony: It's uh, yeah
[4151.8] Jack: Yeah, we we tried something new and um, I think the other let's thrown out thing still running
[4160.2] Jack: Is still sat there waiting for someone to click live
[4164.44] Jack: Unfortunately like there's no way to turn it off until tomorrow
[4171.96] Tony: We will fix things and be back up it doesn't matter it's all goes to um
[4177.62] Tony: Soundcloud if you want to listen to this back guys, um, this will be on soundcloud and apple itunes in
[4183.88] Tony: Uh a few months time so you can listen to it back some millennia. Thank you for everyone for tuning in. Thanks
[4191.08] Tony: Um hydra dom for coming on and saying hi
[4196.68] Jack: Thank you, man, I have nagged you so long i've like
[4202.44] Dominic: So, why are you coming up to why aren't you coming in the shade? Come on, let's go. Come on. Let's go
[4209.08] Jack: I was outraged when you went on the bag. I was like
[4215.16] Jack: That's it we you know, we're like English
[4221.64] Jack: I can deport you like those australians. He's
[4231.16] Dominic: Right, you're not coming over to see all the sweet flying spots
[4237.0] Dominic: But like we'll be there don't sit there is a pool as well, let's go
[4241.48] Tony: No, we're there
[4242.92] Tony: Definitely
[4244.2] Dominic: You gotta come and do it. That'll be great
[4246.2] Dominic: I'll have all the flying spots all sorted out and lined up. I've got loads of them already
[4249.56] Dominic: So I can't wait to get out doing flying. That actually sounds good. If I get in line, I will definitely come
[4255.56] Jack: Yeah
[4257.88] Jack: I hope to fly with you again, man. I have not flown with you since
[4263.32] Jack: It's been two years
[4266.12] Dominic: Yeah, forever. I haven't flown with many people for ages. I think i've been
[4270.2] Dominic: I was flying in granada in spain with some of the guys that were at the drone
[4275.24] Dominic: um
[4276.84] Dominic: The drone world pre randomly they turned out to be very close to where I was in spain
[4281.64] Dominic: um
[4282.44] Dominic: And I went I was down a model car track looking at model cars because i haven't done model cars for ages
[4286.76] Dominic: So that was interesting and there was a guy down there that had uh had a drone and i'm like, oh, hello
[4292.04] Dominic: I see you got a drone and it's like, yeah, what are you running on here?
[4294.44] Dominic: Like beat your flight and i'm like, yeah, it runs my code. That does that's great
[4299.16] Dominic: And then it turned out that his mates up in granada
[4301.8] Dominic: Um
[4303.0] Dominic: I'd met one of them before when I was in jubai, which is hilarious
[4306.28] Dominic: So yeah, we went flying at this deserted golf course in granada
[4310.2] Dominic: Uh, which is absolutely fantastic place to fly. It's just like everything's just perfect
[4314.12] Dominic: It was great and there's about yeah five six or something
[4317.64] Dominic: Yeah, probably a bit more than that flying up there. That was brilliant. I have a plane out. Everything was great
[4321.72] Tony: Do you remember flying at the uh radio c?
[4325.56] Tony: That that was the first event
[4327.88] Tony: That was hilarious. I won that didn't I?
[4330.84] Dominic: I know it was great. I'm like, oh my god
[4333.08] Tony: Using your own little secret code to win that weren't you? No, I just I just didn't suck as hard as everybody else. Wait. No
[4344.68] Jack: This is the bloke flying with the reverse parking lines on his
[4351.48] Jack: What is that about what was that about me?
[4355.56] Dominic: Yeah, no, I never had that that was uh, that was simon simon vc had um, had that on this
[4362.36] Dominic: I didn't I didn't have that you know
[4364.36] Tony: It was simon
[4366.44] Tony: Did you fly at crow through the woods or stabilization? No, it's right some stuff through that
[4372.12] Dominic: Horizon is really good in the trees. Yep
[4374.52] Dominic: If you're doing close proximity stuff horizons, uh, really quite handy actually that was over two years ago. That was yeah. Yeah
[4382.6] Tony: It's crazy how quick and how
[4385.08] Dominic: Everything's changed. I don't think I do that course now in acro mode
[4388.2] Dominic: But maybe that's what everyone else was doing wrong that day. Maybe everyone else is flying acro mode and then
[4393.48] Dominic: Like the cod's basically going too fast in this small confined space that we were going through and then uh, it was tiny
[4399.4] Tony: Wasn't it that track? Well, thanks for doing this
[4402.36] Dominic: No worries. No worries. I hope to um, maybe we'll do it again after after my new stuff's out. Yeah
[4408.92] Tony: How long
[4410.44] Dominic: People got away keep asking but you know, it's got away. It's just got away
[4414.6] Dominic: My stuff is done when it's done
[4416.28] Dominic: Okay, right. It's not rushed out basically. So it's done when it's done. Okay
[4421.32] Tony: So when it's out, we're right wherever you're back on and then you can tell a real more all about it
[4426.04] Tony: Yeah, what you done and uh, how you did it?
[4429.72] Jack: Thank you. You've been listening to let's turn it out. I've been chatting to uh, dominantly clifton mr
[4434.68] Jack: queen far away from say thank you
[4437.96] Jack: and then
[4440.04] Jack: Tony boney
[4441.88] Dominic: Cheers telemetry last
[4452.36] Dominic: How did you get an injury?
[4454.68] Tony: Um, I got flown into a high speed ouch
[4459.8] Dominic: To get the ice then were you wearing goggles at the time or not?
[4463.24] Tony: I wasn't no
[4465.32] Dominic: Yeah, no, I had one close encounter. Uh when I was out in spain last year and uh
[4471.4] Dominic: I had a cable from uh goggles
[4474.12] Dominic: uh in the
[4475.4] Dominic: Pocket of the battery connector and then it went down to pick my quad up and the cable caught my arm switch
[4481.32] Dominic: And then as I went to like disarm it
[4484.44] Dominic: It uh, the cable was underneath the throttle as well
[4487.48] Dominic: And it throttled up and then went the corner and lifted off the ground
[4491.32] Dominic: Into my goggles and that zipped off into the air. That was pretty close. So there's a scratch on the bottom of my goggles
[4497.0] Dominic: That would have otherwise been my eye
[4499.4] Tony: If I was still having my goggles on mine was on my chin. Um, it was a
[4504.68] Tony: Someone flying 5s with a gopro
[4507.8] Tony: with a carbon quad
[4509.56] Dominic: That would have hurt
[4511.0] Tony: Yeah
[4512.52] Tony: It it hurt and I went to hospital
[4515.4] Tony: but
[4516.68] Tony: It you know, it was just lucky. It was an unfortunate thing. I think the person has learned by their mistakes. I hope they have
[4522.92] Tony: It was just one of them things really. I was just
[4525.88] Tony: Completely lucky that it hit my chin anywhere else. I would have been
[4529.16] Dominic: I think everybody's doing all this sport and the same with the planes and helicopters always has some random
[4534.68] Tony: Minor injury and you take them all go. I don't hold it against the guy. I'm not going to ever tell up
[4540.68] Tony: Anyone who it was. It was just a bad thing. What happened?
[4544.52] Dominic: Yeah, it happens sometimes
[4546.04] Dominic: Yeah, at least at least the props stop a little bit quicker on the cords than they do on the planes
[4549.72] Dominic: I just think they'll take your fingers off
[4552.68] Tony: I will
[4553.88] Dominic: You can't respect the big props I was down
[4556.84] Dominic: Somewhere near south end on sea like cave nay cavey island or something like that
[4560.52] Dominic: It was and they've got a flying club down there
[4562.92] Dominic: And uh, they've got big props like yay big like I don't want to get in the way one of those
[4568.6] Dominic: No, definitely not
[4570.92] Dominic: Yeah