=== Let's Drone Out — Episode 124 ===
Title: LDO Episode; 124 Jonathan Nicholson from the CAA
Recorded: 2018-01-11
Hosts: Andrew "Frank" Hyams, Jack "Brightontillifly" Nash, Andy, Tony "TheTonstar1" Marchant
Guest(s): Jonathan Nicholson, Steve (Drone Racing Manchester)
Total audience: 3,207
Platforms: YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpbuaMGt428); SoundCloud (http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/feeds.soundcloud.com/stream/384984104-letsdroneout-ldo-episode-124-jonathan-nicholson-from-the-caa.m4a)
=====================================

Our friends from the CAA

[0.0] Jack: Hello. Today is Thursday the 11th of January 2018 and you're listening to Let's Drone Out
[17.46] Jack: and I am joined by Andrew slash rank. Hello. Andy RC. Hello. Jonathan, I'm really sorry if
[29.06] Jack: I don't know your last name. It's Nicholson from CAA. Hello. Yep. And he is from the CAA and he's
[35.62] Jack: going to be answering questions and teaching us things. And I'm also joined by my wife,
[42.26] Jack: Tony, who for some reason is unavailable right about now, but he will jump back on. He's the
[48.98] Jack: one that goes and all that sort of stuff. He's basically Kyle Pilkington and I am bright until
[54.9] Jack: I fly. Right. We have joined by in the chat. First person in the chat was Darmoor1. Erwin,
[62.58] Jack: nice to see you. Thank you for commenting on my and Andy's video slash video that I forced Andy
[70.42] Jack: to do last night. Really sorry, Andy. Frank, now fishy. Zero's back in. Mr. Thrust. Mikey Dreds.
[80.82] Jack: He's a hero because he's one of the $12 Patreons. New legend. So remind you there's a Patreon
[90.42] Jack: Let's Drone Out. Patreon slash Let's Drone Out. And I'd like to thank all the Patreons that are
[97.78] Jack: helping sponsor us. We are $6 away from being able to pay the editor for next month. So if you do
[104.74] Jack: donate, we won't take any money. You'll just pay the beginning next month and all the episodes
[109.86] Jack: will be edited and come out on time. So right. So moving on. Frank's got a few things to start
[117.06] Frank: talking about. We are really lucky to have Jonathan here. Thanks to Ash put us in touch
[122.98] Frank: from joining on. So I think you two met at the CAA outreach down towards Bristol somewhere.
[133.46] Frank: I can't remember where it was. That's it. Yeah. Compton,
[135.3] Jonathan Nicholson: August. Yes, I've met him a couple of times. Actually, he's been a few things we've been at.
[138.42] Frank: But yes, he was he was there. Yep. Yep. So unfortunately, he couldn't make it here
[142.98] Frank: tonight because he's busy taking apart the Bank of England and putting it back together or something.
[147.38] Frank: So instead, you've got us to deal with. But yeah, so I think for because there's like a
[155.7] Frank: huge number of acronyms of different bodies of people, we've got BMFA, we've got Bauple,
[160.58] Frank: we've got Ofcom, we've got DFT, we've got Piazza, and then we've got the CAA.
[166.58] Frank: How about starting off with sort of how did the CAA fit into the general
[171.86] Frank: you know, group of people that help manage the air?
[175.46] Jonathan Nicholson: The acronym alphabets, you mean? Yeah, many of them there are. So civil aviation authority,
[181.46] Jonathan Nicholson: CAA, that's what we are. We are the domestic regulator for all civil aviation, if you like,
[186.5] Jonathan Nicholson: whether that be British Airways, EasyJet, Naps, the air traffic people, Heathrow Airport,
[192.34] Jonathan Nicholson: a hang glider, a glider, a power glider, whatever it is, if it's UK stuff, we look after it. So
[200.18] Jonathan Nicholson: I go back sort of a good few years now when we first made the drone regulations for the UK,
[206.18] Jonathan Nicholson: there weren't any for Europe. We put them in place. You talk to the guys in the policy team
[212.34] Jonathan Nicholson: who are still there, all they thought of was going to be huge drones flown for TV, film,
[221.46] Jonathan Nicholson: you know, the odd archaeological dig, something like that, bit of survey work. They honestly
[226.5] Jonathan Nicholson: didn't think there was going to be anything else like this, certainly not FPV racing or anything
[230.66] Jonathan Nicholson: like that. So put the first regulations in place. Since then, those have developed. And I guess we're
[238.82] Jonathan Nicholson: sort of like the safety regulator, if you like, so helping to set the rules. We don't really enforce.
[246.9] Jonathan Nicholson: We do a little bit of work about approving commercial operators. And my job, one of my
[253.38] Jonathan Nicholson: jobs is to try and run some of the education stuff for consumer users, the people buying them for
[259.94] Jonathan Nicholson: Maplin, who, if you like, are buying the equivalent of a radio controlled car, but they're launching
[266.26] Jonathan Nicholson: it into the air and don't perhaps realize it comes with a few other things that, you know,
[270.58] Jonathan Nicholson: they need to think about that a radio controlled car doesn't. So that's what I've been doing for
[274.98] Frank: a couple of years now. And it does seem to have gone quite well. I mean, it wasn't that many
[281.78] Frank: months, years ago that there was, you know, a story every week of Maplins, people kind of
[289.3] Frank: flying in the middle of the city. And now with the drone safe stuff, that seems to have done a
[294.26] Frank: pretty good job of kind of letting people know that actually, you might want to check a few
[298.26] Jonathan Nicholson: things first. So yeah, it's made a start. I wouldn't say we're completely there. Yeah. I mean,
[304.02] Jonathan Nicholson: I equate it to stuff like drink driving. So yeah, if you go back to the 1950s, there was huge amounts
[311.38] Jonathan Nicholson: of drink driving. And gradually, that has moved to a place where it's socially unacceptable,
[318.02] Jonathan Nicholson: and people don't do it. We've started that similar journey, if you like, it's a behavioral
[324.34] Jonathan Nicholson: change thing. So yes, we're making an impact when we survey people, more people are aware of the
[330.34] Jonathan Nicholson: drone code, more people who are now aware of what they shouldn't do. And I keep saying to people,
[336.5] Jonathan Nicholson: this is all about common sense, basically, it's not rocket science. You know, we're not out to
[343.06] Jonathan Nicholson: spoil people's fun. We basically want drones to have the future that they should have. But if
[349.86] Jonathan Nicholson: people start if people do stupid things with drones, that's when they get bad publicity. That's
[356.02] Jonathan Nicholson: when MPs and ministers and others start to get involved. And that's when people, you know,
[364.26] Jonathan Nicholson: stop things happening that should otherwise happen. So, you know, it's really important that
[369.7] Jonathan Nicholson: people use their common sense and don't give drones a bad name because they don't deserve it.
[375.54] Jonathan Nicholson: But yeah, we'll do keep doing stupid things. We are seeing still getting an increase in
[382.74] Jonathan Nicholson: the numbers of pilots of other things in the air, reporting drones getting too close to them. Now,
[388.34] Jonathan Nicholson: undoubtedly, some of that is pilots reporting things that they always have reported that they
[393.86] Jonathan Nicholson: didn't know what they were and saying it was a drone. But we also know and we see evidence
[399.78] Jonathan Nicholson: of people absolutely doing stupid things with drones near aircraft. And, you know,
[405.3] Jonathan Nicholson: it may not be an airbus that has an incident with a drone, but helicopters and light aircraft,
[411.78] Jonathan Nicholson: if you're, you know, I've spoken to auto driver pilots and hang gliders, and they haven't got
[417.86] Jonathan Nicholson: anything around them, you know, to protect them. And, you know, even the smallest drone in the face
[424.18] Jonathan Nicholson: of a hang glider pilot is not going to be nice. Now, drones have the equivalent rights to share
[431.86] Jonathan Nicholson: that airspace as any of those other people, but it is about sharing it and doing it responsibly.
[437.46] Jonathan Nicholson: And, you know, you mentioned the share the air event we went to that Ash was at. And
[444.02] Jonathan Nicholson: that was as much about getting hold of the private pilots and saying to them, these drone guys,
[449.54] Jonathan Nicholson: you know, equal rights to be in the airspace with you. But, you know, it's got to be sensibly done,
[456.42] Frank: if you like. Yeah. So how have you been sort of, you know, apart from the outreach events,
[465.38] Frank: have you been sort of working out how how it should all work? So I think there is
[470.74] Frank: at least been a few sit downs with some people from the BMFA, I think from the FPV UK as well.
[478.66] Frank: So sort of how how does that all work through then? So we try and keep in touch with with
[484.98] Jonathan Nicholson: everybody that's involved, because obviously, there's a lot of commercial guys out there as
[489.22] Jonathan Nicholson: well, whose livelihoods revolve around drones. So we try and keep in touch with all the people
[495.06] Jonathan Nicholson: involved. Ultimately, the UK, from us from the UK perspective, a lot of what happens is driven
[504.58] Jonathan Nicholson: either by the government or what will be driven by European regulations from from the
[510.18] Jonathan Nicholson: US, the European Aviation Safety Agency. And we can talk about that in a minute if you want.
[514.5] Jonathan Nicholson: But ultimately, it's about keeping those people in touch with what those other groups are doing,
[519.62] Jonathan Nicholson: what the government's doing as far as changes to regulation, and then what Europe's doing as far
[524.5] Jonathan Nicholson: as changes to regulation, what we do will be driven by what they do. So, you know, there's not
[529.78] Jonathan Nicholson: so much about us changing the laws about those people changing the laws and then us helping
[534.82] Jonathan Nicholson: everybody out there to understand what's going on.
[538.18] Frank: Yeah. And you yourself, you've been focusing a lot more on the education side.
[544.74] Frank: Is there anything that our listeners and other people that are interested in keeping the drone
[551.86] Frank: hobby being kind of available? Is there anything it suggests that we can do to help? I mean,
[559.14] Frank: do you run or do you need like people to go out to schools or anything and teach?
[564.9] Jonathan Nicholson: We need generally advocates everywhere. So, you know, the biggest thing, so when we first started
[571.3] Jonathan Nicholson: looking at some of the YouTube clips that people were putting on that were absolutely, you know,
[577.14] Jonathan Nicholson: stupid. And, you know, people flying, when I say stupid, I mean things like flying a drone up to
[585.46] Jonathan Nicholson: 3,000 feet in the southeast of England. It's that to me as somebody who is involved in aviation
[595.3] Jonathan Nicholson: and also wants to promote drones is absolutely stupid. They can't see what else is going on
[602.66] Jonathan Nicholson: around them. Yeah. You're looking purely flying that drone then by what your camera is showing you.
[609.22] Jonathan Nicholson: And you've no idea of a Medivac helicopter is coming up behind your drone, especially when
[614.26] Jonathan Nicholson: I've seen video of people flying them over fog. So, you know, absolutely crazy. So, what we need
[621.62] Jonathan Nicholson: is advocates throughout the community. So, when we first started replying to videos like that,
[627.86] Jonathan Nicholson: we got a huge stream in the YouTube things about FFCAA, you know, leave us alone,
[634.98] Jonathan Nicholson: which, okay, fine. But now we see other drone users coming into people's YouTube
[641.7] Jonathan Nicholson: feeds and actually saying, you know, you are threatening our hobby, you are threatening my
[646.5] Jonathan Nicholson: livelihood. And people pay more attention to peer pressure and peer communication than they do from,
[653.78] Jonathan Nicholson: say, the regulator standing there and going, you know, so the more we can get that peer group
[661.54] Jonathan Nicholson: to police itself and its own hobby and its own profession, and absolutely, yes, as well as that,
[669.3] Jonathan Nicholson: it's about getting out and helping to educate things like local authorities, things like
[674.02] Jonathan Nicholson: landowners, national trust, kids, everything like that, that people can show that these things have
[682.34] Jonathan Nicholson: an amazing future, both for fun as a hobby, but also as helping people. What we don't want to do
[689.3] Jonathan Nicholson: is get to a situation where, you know, NHS and other people are already looking at the potential
[695.86] Jonathan Nicholson: of moving human organs from hospital to hospital by drone. It would be amazingly quicker, more
[702.58] Jonathan Nicholson: efficient, help loads of people. We don't want that scuppered by people using drones stupidly
[711.78] Jonathan Nicholson: and then convincing people who don't understand that they think that is what drones are all about
[716.9] Jonathan Nicholson: and they write to their MP and go, you know, drones must all be banned because of a few stupid people
[723.54] Frank: that then stop something really good happening. Yeah, so I guess that's another good thing to
[729.22] Frank: look at is sort of, you know, in the long term you want to be getting sort of autonomous, you know,
[736.98] Frank: these beyond visual line of sight drones, whether that's, you know, hospital deliveries or whether
[743.7] Frank: it's other sorts of deliveries or something else entirely, you know, that's network rail doing
[749.7] Frank: surveys. I'm sure they'd rather have, you know, doing that autonomously than having an actual
[755.22] Frank: full-size manned aircraft having to pay for the fuel for that. So in the long term, I think a lot
[762.82] Frank: of people are slightly worried that there's going to be a lot of airspace taken up by that and
[766.42] Frank: there's not going to be a lot left for us. Is there any sort of idea of how everyone's going to be
[773.38] Jonathan Nicholson: integrated into that? There are many ideas about that. None of them actually have a real
[781.86] Jonathan Nicholson: stranglehold yet to say that that will happen. You say long term, I don't think it's long term.
[787.54] Jonathan Nicholson: I think it will happen much quicker than that. So I don't think we're a million miles away seeing
[793.7] Jonathan Nicholson: micro drones flying around cities, monitoring traffic, you know, yeah, large delivery drones
[800.58] Jonathan Nicholson: might be a little bit further away. The big things for us are making sure that the drones
[808.18] Jonathan Nicholson: operating beyond visual line of sight can separate themselves from other airspace users. So
[815.62] Jonathan Nicholson: absolutely, yes, everybody has an equal right to the airspace. But realistically, if it's a small
[822.18] Jonathan Nicholson: drone and a fast military jet doing 200 miles an hour, you know, the jet pilot is not going to
[828.66] Jonathan Nicholson: stand much chance of seeing a drone at the speed he's going. So we need to get to the situation
[834.74] Jonathan Nicholson: where the technology advances beyond, say, a DGI that can stop itself flying into a tree
[841.54] Jonathan Nicholson: to getting to the point where a delivery drone or whatever drone that's flying autonomously
[848.58] Jonathan Nicholson: can sense and avoid an RAF Typhoon jet flying through a valley in Wales, a parachutist coming
[857.22] Jonathan Nicholson: down, which is only going one way and he or she has got absolutely no control. They can't move out
[863.94] Jonathan Nicholson: of the way. They are coming down and that is it. So, you know, when a drone can do those things
[871.3] Jonathan Nicholson: and they're not far off doing those things, that's when we'll start to see more beyond visual line of
[878.74] Jonathan Nicholson: sight. I mean, at the moment, there's people out there trialing it and doing things with their
[883.62] Jonathan Nicholson: permission to do tests. So it does happen. But for it to happen on a national scale where
[891.62] Jonathan Nicholson: there's thousands of these things operating autonomously, that's one of the big things
[896.18] Jonathan Nicholson: that needs to happen. The other big thing that needs to happen is literally working out some
[903.38] Jonathan Nicholson: kind of air traffic system for them as well. And that won't be like we see at the moment where
[910.18] Jonathan Nicholson: you have one controller sitting at a radar screen physically talking to pilots. It obviously won't
[917.06] Jonathan Nicholson: happen like that. It will be, again, an automatic network. But that's something else that needs to
[922.66] Jonathan Nicholson: happen. There's lots of very clever people working on these things. It's just there's no solutions,
[926.82] Frank: no ultimate solution yet. Yeah, I mean, there's the guys up in Cambridge with Amazon working on
[934.02] Frank: something out there. Yeah, we've also got the site out in Wales, where a lot of this is sort of stuff
[940.66] Frank: is going on, I think. Do you think I mean, there was there was talk, and we will get on to the
[946.74] Frank: prospective drone building a bit, I'm sure. But I think as part of the announcements around that,
[953.54] Frank: there was mention of setting up other sites around the country. That would be for testing these sorts
[960.26] Frank: of things in different situations. I mean, I think everyone in the hobby community, there is
[967.3] Frank: picked up at that, because there was the sort of thing of like, if there's a site that's permanently
[972.34] Frank: set aside for that, might we get an eye in on the weekends? Well, that would be that would be between
[979.22] Jonathan Nicholson: you guys and the people that were running the site really. I mean, yeah, there's Park Aberporth,
[984.18] Jonathan Nicholson: and the military have have one as well, they're probably less likely to let you in.
[988.58] Jonathan Nicholson: And yes, between you and the landowners, really, and the people that run the site,
[993.7] Jonathan Nicholson: the one thing I would say is they're going to be kept to a minimum airspace in this country is like
[1000.02] Jonathan Nicholson: the it's worth a fortune if you monetized it, because the demand on it is huge. We're a very
[1007.38] Jonathan Nicholson: small country with a very big aviation industry. You know, there's more and more airline and
[1013.86] Jonathan Nicholson: flying, there's more and more commercial flights, which want airspace. When we were at the share
[1019.06] Jonathan Nicholson: the air event, one of the things I said to all the private pilots is actually, they and you
[1025.06] Jonathan Nicholson: have a lot in common, because you want airspace for fun, for hobby, etc. as they do. And together,
[1035.62] Jonathan Nicholson: you're a much more powerful voice than separate against all the other people that want airspace.
[1042.26] Jonathan Nicholson: So I don't think we're ever going to see huge bits of airspace just segregated for drone use.
[1050.18] Jonathan Nicholson: You know, the Park Aberporth thing is pretty small, purely because there's so much other demand,
[1055.06] Jonathan Nicholson: everything from that RAF Typhoon, to the Qantas flight, to the private pilot, to the hang glider.
[1062.98] Frank: There's a huge demand for our airspace. Yeah, definitely. So if we do have a sort of
[1070.74] Frank: mention of the prospective drone bill, before going immediately to there,
[1077.3] Frank: sort of looking at what's happened in other countries around Europe. I mean, a lot of them
[1083.62] Frank: are going for the 250 gram limit. I mean, that's happened in America and Russia as well, I think.
[1092.18] Frank: And it sounds like that's something that's going to come into the UK.
[1096.74] Frank: You mean for registration? For registration, yes. So I mean, registration,
[1103.78] Frank: it sounds like it might become a thing. And then there's the question of how model flyers
[1112.26] Frank: are going to maybe get grandfathered in around that. There's all sorts of questions about how
[1117.7] Frank: that's going to work. Is that something that the CAA is the group that's sorting that out? Or
[1125.22] Frank: is that sort of something that the CAA is sort of just a voice in a bigger picture?
[1132.58] Jonathan Nicholson: A bit of both. So we won't have the ultimate say for the UK. That will be the government. That
[1137.94] Jonathan Nicholson: will be the Department for Transport. They're the people that announced there would be registration
[1143.86] Jonathan Nicholson: and the drone bill and other elements. That didn't come from us. That came from them.
[1148.5] Jonathan Nicholson: But they have asked us for our views. So we will give them advice and views on what we think.
[1155.86] Jonathan Nicholson: Certainly on registration, we think it would be of use if it's tied to electronic identification.
[1165.54] Jonathan Nicholson: So if you said to me, here's an Excel spreadsheet with just a load of names and serial numbers on,
[1171.86] Jonathan Nicholson: that's not much use to me. If we're talking about being able to help that as an enforcement
[1180.58] Jonathan Nicholson: thing or a police thing, then you really need to have something where a policeman can hold up his
[1187.54] Jonathan Nicholson: iPhone or his Samsung or whatever and say, that drone that's flying a mile off the end of Heath
[1193.86] Jonathan Nicholson: Rose one way at 500 feet is owned by Joe Bloggs down the road. Absolutely. Yeah. If it's the case
[1204.42] Jonathan Nicholson: of a drone involved in an aviation incident has never been recovered. So having a serial number
[1215.86] Jonathan Nicholson: and tying it to a name doesn't help necessarily with that kind of issue. There's other things
[1221.94] Jonathan Nicholson: why the government might want registration. But for us, that's the key thing, if you like.
[1228.34] Jonathan Nicholson: Now, what I would say about model flyers and FPV guys, et cetera, so every time we mention it to
[1235.62] Jonathan Nicholson: government, to EASA, they are absolutely aware and anxious to avoid any knock-on effects that
[1245.7] Jonathan Nicholson: would affect those guys. So they're very, very aware. BMFA, the British Model Flying Association,
[1252.42] Jonathan Nicholson: have been with EASA as part of the working group looking at the European regs. So those bodies are
[1258.34] Jonathan Nicholson: absolutely aware that you guys exist. And for more of the stuff they say to us, they don't want to
[1264.58] Jonathan Nicholson: stop you doing anything that you already do. Are you sure they know about us? Well, they may not
[1270.42] Jonathan Nicholson: know about you individually, but they absolutely, when we say to them, what about FPV? So our policy
[1277.62] Jonathan Nicholson: guy was over at EASA a couple of weeks ago because they're finishing off what will be the European
[1282.82] Jonathan Nicholson: regs. And he told me they had at least an hour and a half, two hour discussion about racing.
[1290.42] Jack: You're on the agenda. Good to hear. No, Heathrow drone might have been Tony.
[1300.74] Andy: No. Just to be clear, while we're here, so the CAA does recognize FPV and race quadcopters as
[1309.7] Andy: a separate thing to what has been classed as drones, as in when we say drones, we're talking
[1316.34] Andy: about people that can go into mappling and pick up a Phantom and just fly it. So we're saying that
[1323.38] Andy: the CAA does recognize that they are sort of two separate things kind of thing.
[1328.58] Jonathan Nicholson: Well, there's many separate things I would say. So when we say drone, because most of the people
[1333.78] Jonathan Nicholson: we speak to are Joe public, the media, whatever. And if I start talking about FPV to a journalist,
[1341.46] Jack: they'll go, what? You are triggering a few people in the chat.
[1348.82] Jack: Quad, not a drone. Might be a tricopter.
[1352.5] Jonathan Nicholson: Again, if I'm talking to somebody who's buying whatever you want to call it for mappling,
[1361.06] Jonathan Nicholson: they know it's a drone. If I said to somebody walking out of mappling who's just brought a
[1367.94] Jonathan Nicholson: bebop or whatever, have you brought a quadcopter? What's FPV? They'll look at me pretty blankly,
[1375.86] Jonathan Nicholson: 99% of them and go, well, I came in to buy a drone. And that is my prime audience that I talk
[1383.46] Jonathan Nicholson: to. But from what we do as an organization, as I say, we're involved with cities that want
[1392.5] Jonathan Nicholson: micro drones flying around, monitoring things to people who are looking at the equivalent of a
[1402.18] Jonathan Nicholson: military drone to move cargo around that ultimately at the moment is flown by large
[1408.9] Jonathan Nicholson: airliners. If you look at East Midlands Airport, Atlanta Airport, every night, they have hundreds
[1416.5] Jonathan Nicholson: and hundreds of movements by airliners that have no passengers in them. Potentially, those could
[1422.74] Frank: be drones or whatever you want to call them. Is there any, I mean, quite a few people in the
[1433.62] Frank: chat are pointing out trying to separate out the model aircraft flyers, and then there's the FPV
[1442.02] Frank: races. They're not seen by either of those groups as being the same people, but still
[1450.18] Frank: with the model aircraft and the quadcopters are going to be very similar from the view of general
[1462.1] Frank: aviation. So I can't remember where I was going with this, I've lost my time.
[1469.14] Andy: I think as well, if you think about model RC flying in general has been around for 50 years.
[1474.42] Frank: That's where I was going.
[1476.26] Andy: And it's not really needed to change. If you want, I mean, I've been flying for 27 years,
[1482.1] Andy: and I joined the club because that was the only way that you could get into it back then,
[1485.62] Andy: because otherwise, you couldn't fly, you couldn't get these ready to fly things with GPS, you
[1490.42] Andy: crashed straight away. So there's been things in place through the BMFA for years and years for
[1499.62] Andy: model flying.
[1500.74] Jack: Years and years, not years and years, sorry, it's northern.
[1505.78] Jack: Sorry.
[1506.82] Andy: That's okay. So I think there's a lot of people upset that because they've been following those
[1513.62] Andy: rules, the BMFA have their A and their B test, they have examiners. And the reason that they
[1521.14] Andy: put those in place is because there was no sort of official thing in place, but they've kind of
[1525.7] Andy: become a standard for clubbing. And so I think a lot of people are agitated that just because
[1534.74] Andy: someone can now walk in and buy a Phantom, that they've been flying for 27 years and now got to.
[1541.94] Jonathan Nicholson: What can't they do now that they could do 27 years ago?
[1546.02] Andy: No, no, no, what I'm getting at is if any sort of legislation has to change, or they
[1552.74] Andy: have to maybe take a test where they've already taken a test through the BMFA and stuff like
[1558.34] Jonathan Nicholson: that. So yeah, but certainly, I think when we speak to government, when we speak to we also,
[1563.78] Jonathan Nicholson: they're well aware of what the difference is and what those guys can already do.
[1569.46] Jonathan Nicholson: In aviation, there are lots of things that you have a law, you have a regulation, and then you
[1576.58] Jonathan Nicholson: have exemptions. There are lots of people who are exempted from things because they either have a
[1582.18] Jonathan Nicholson: another qualification, or because their whole area of aviation is exempted. For us, different
[1590.98] Jonathan Nicholson: lots of drones are no different to the way we deal with lots of different types of general aviation
[1595.86] Jonathan Nicholson: private flying. So when I say general aviation private flying, that stretches from a power
[1602.9] Jonathan Nicholson: glider, where a guy has strapped a lawnmower engine to his back and has a power glide wing,
[1608.42] Jonathan Nicholson: up to a Gulfstream and a Lear jet, executive jet, and everything in between. We may say general
[1616.66] Jonathan Nicholson: aviation private flying, but as an organization, we're used to dealing with all those sectors.
[1622.98] Jonathan Nicholson: We have about 50 odd general aviation associations that we deal with to cover every single little
[1629.94] Jonathan Nicholson: bit. There's the historic aircraft association, there's the light aircraft, it goes on and on
[1635.7] Jonathan Nicholson: so different bits of drones are nothing unusual for us. So if some new legislation came in that
[1643.94] Andy: okay you're going to have to take a test or you're going to have to have a license to
[1650.18] Andy: say fly a DJI Phantom, would that possibly be exempt for all the people that for years and years
[1656.82] Andy: have gone down the BMFA route and have taken the tests? I think that's where we were sort of going.
[1662.1] Jonathan Nicholson: So it could be we don't know yet and absolutely that test, it could be sitting in front of a
[1670.34] Jonathan Nicholson: computer watching a two-minute video and answering five questions. Sure. Yeah I mean nobody said this
[1677.14] Jonathan Nicholson: test is going to be something you have to spend hundreds of pounds on a whole day. It's literally
[1684.26] Jonathan Nicholson: the government has said they would look at compulsory education and if you look at
[1689.94] Jonathan Nicholson: actually what you know so there has to be a cut somewhere of what's included and what isn't
[1697.46] Jonathan Nicholson: and you know absolutely surely we could all sign up to the fact that we want the person that is
[1703.3] Jonathan Nicholson: buying a drone as a toy for Maplin to realize that flying 600 feet off the end of Heathrow
[1711.3] Jonathan Nicholson: Runway is a stupid idea and you know because at the moment there are people buying things from
[1717.54] Jonathan Nicholson: shops, from online or whatever, we just don't understand that. They don't get it so you know
[1722.26] Jonathan Nicholson: we do need to get to those people and tell them those things. Yeah I think people hear the word
[1727.14] Andy: test and instantly relate to a driving test or something like you know that's something that
[1732.02] Andy: you can pass or fail and I think that that probably got blown out of proportion for sure.
[1738.5] Jonathan Nicholson: I mean also you think about what's realistic so if you're talking about suddenly I don't know
[1744.34] Jonathan Nicholson: a hundred thousand people that have to do this test and register. If it was you had to go and
[1751.38] Jonathan Nicholson: stand in a field for a morning and actually they sign you off. I mean that may not be realistic
[1760.58] Andy: anyway. Well you'd have to pay someone and I think that's what people are worried about that you'd
[1764.26] Andy: have to pay someone to do that therefore you'd have to pay to do the test and these are all
[1768.66] Jonathan Nicholson: things that that we think about quite often. Well that's understandable but I wouldn't in my
[1774.18] Jonathan Nicholson: list of things to worry about if I was you guys that wouldn't be that wouldn't be at the top of
[1779.62] Jonathan Nicholson: my list. What should we be worrying about then? Nothing. If I wouldn't so you know absolutely
[1789.54] Jonathan Nicholson: we as others are looking to make your lives as easy as possible so you can carry on and do what
[1796.1] Jonathan Nicholson: you want to do. If I was you guys I'd be more worried about access to land landowners neighbors
[1803.7] Jonathan Nicholson: that kind of stuff you know we see so many local authorities banning drones in parks so many
[1809.86] Jonathan Nicholson: landowners that don't understand so you know if you're talking about flying outside I know you
[1815.78] Jonathan Nicholson: guys can operate indoors as well but you know if you're talking about going outside those are some
[1820.66] Jonathan Nicholson: of the things I'd be looking to to get out there and educate people about and and try and show to
[1827.14] Jonathan Nicholson: them that it's not an issue you know I think I think we're at the stage with local authorities
[1832.42] Jonathan Nicholson: when I was a kid and I wanted a skateboard it was absolutely you could not go into a park or a local
[1840.02] Jonathan Nicholson: area and skateboard because you were going to knock over some granny and it was all a disaster
[1846.18] Jonathan Nicholson: and now we have skateboards skateboard parks in parks you know it's about having that journey
[1852.74] Jonathan Nicholson: and that conversation you know why can't we have FPV racing circuits in parks you know that's the
[1859.38] Jonathan Nicholson: kind of things I think if I was in that arena I'd be pushing for and working for because you know
[1865.86] Jonathan Nicholson: the rules may not change if you do need to sit a test it might take you five minutes online but
[1871.3] Jonathan Nicholson: if you've got nowhere to fly it's all pointless. I don't know if you've seen as well but DJI
[1876.74] Andy: recently introduced a test on their app and if you if you skip it five times it won't let you fly
[1884.42] Andy: did the CAA have any involvement with that or is that just something? No that was something they
[1889.06] Jonathan Nicholson: did off their own back I think you know they they obviously have things as do the shops and the
[1894.9] Jonathan Nicholson: retailers as being responsible you know if I was them you know I'd get really annoyed if I was DJI
[1903.54] Jonathan Nicholson: because every time there's an incident with a drone the media show a clip of a phantom you know
[1908.98] Jonathan Nicholson: regardless of who it is what it is or whatever. No such thing as a bad publicity I don't know
[1917.14] Jonathan Nicholson: but you know I know they get annoyed by that kind of thing and being the market leader for that
[1923.22] Jonathan Nicholson: bought from a shop I don't know what I'm buying consumer drone if you like then you know they
[1928.82] Jack: need to protect themselves as do the retailers. Do you know what I find really scary is like
[1936.34] Jack: the amount of people that buy them and then give give them to kids like you know I saw like last
[1943.7] Jack: year I don't know Frank can you hover your finger over the mute button in case I go into dangerous
[1950.82] Jack: territory. Last year there was like this fun thing to do well I say fun all right we're
[1959.86] Jack: slightly sick but flyaways you know people getting the new drones at Christmas and they
[1965.3] Jack: don't know what they're doing so you know like you type in hashtag lost drone on Twitter and
[1973.38] Jack: there was some someone who posted like their screaming 10 year old and they bought them a
[1978.74] Jack: phantom like they spent a ground on a drone lost it in the first 10 minutes and I'm like
[1984.74] Jack: what are you doing plus I wonder if they'll adopt me I definitely don't get a thousand
[1992.58] Jonathan Nicholson: pounds spent on me for Christmas yeah but then that's that's where yeah that's my job to try and
[1997.14] Jonathan Nicholson: get out to those people and yeah we did a lot of stuff over Christmas with retailers trying
[2001.54] Jack: with the leaflets yeah trying to get enough really didn't you need like a fat stack yeah
[2008.58] Jonathan Nicholson: yeah yeah yeah we have got a lot don't worry but I mean you know like DJI are now putting them in
[2012.9] Jonathan Nicholson: the boxes in China you know Maplin and mankind and Carphone Warehouse have actually signed up
[2020.1] Jonathan Nicholson: to make sure nobody leaves their shop without one so it's all things like that you know yes you're
[2025.38] Jonathan Nicholson: absolutely right if you're gifting we did a kind of thing like you know some research before
[2030.5] Jonathan Nicholson: Christmas about how many grandparents were thinking about buying one and it's millions
[2035.38] Jonathan Nicholson: for to pass on you know so yeah that is a big target audience for us because they're the people
[2041.7] Jonathan Nicholson: that don't understand and quite rightly you know they they've never been involved in aviation
[2046.5] Jonathan Nicholson: their own involvement in aviation might be going on holiday every year you know and and they don't
[2052.34] Jonathan Nicholson: understand that you know their drone can fly way higher than that medivac helicopter that's coming
[2058.34] Jonathan Nicholson: through and and it's not just collisions either that's the thing as well you know it's it's knock
[2064.26] Jonathan Nicholson: on effects so you know if you talk to people like the medivac helicopter pilots they are some of the
[2071.46] Jonathan Nicholson: top-notch guys in the world at skills you know the equivalent of your FPV world champion they are
[2079.14] Jonathan Nicholson: that for the helicopter world but if you put them in a situation at night they're desperately trying
[2085.7] Jonathan Nicholson: to get to somebody who needs like life-saving medical attention it's at night it's foggy or
[2092.66] Jonathan Nicholson: it's bad visibility they're looking through their night vision goggles you know a heli a drone nearby
[2099.94] Jonathan Nicholson: them is the distraction that they don't want that could trigger something else even if it's not that
[2106.58] Jonathan Nicholson: close you know it puts them off it disturbs them yeah yeah absolutely yeah you know and also
[2116.74] Jonathan Nicholson: casualty didn't do us any favors no but then but then the casualty script writer would never have
[2124.66] Jonathan Nicholson: written that if they didn't have examples to put in their mind of things that you know might happen
[2131.38] Jonathan Nicholson: or had happened or they've seen happen it was a plastic bag it wasn't a drone you know that
[2138.98] Jonathan Nicholson: really clear so if you look to what we say we say unconfirmed reports you know etc etc etc
[2146.66] Jonathan Nicholson: and until we have evidence that a drone was involved in an incident we will never say
[2151.78] Jack: that it was a drone uh can i read a funny frank did you see that comment in the chat
[2159.46] Jack: which one i hope you're not talking about the one from dynamite girl yeah it was that made me
[2164.34] Jack: damn it i just so want to say that out loud um there's johnson got access to the chat
[2170.5] Jack: you want access to the chat cheering no you're probably not by the side it wasn't offensive
[2175.94] Andy: that much not to you i've got i've got a question john i think just a personal one do you fly
[2181.3] Jonathan Nicholson: yourself well it's a good question anything anything i've done air traffic control
[2190.82] Jonathan Nicholson: um i have flown light aircraft but not very much because i get air sick um and
[2198.82] Jonathan Nicholson: bizarrely um i do have a couple of drones i've got a couple of micro drones um uh like you i'd love
[2204.66] Jonathan Nicholson: somebody to fund me 800 pound for a nice drone but um with a nine-year-old a house a mortgage
[2211.3] Jonathan Nicholson: etc that doesn't happen i'm afraid but i have been out um with guys so when i first started on this
[2217.86] Jonathan Nicholson: work i went out with a school and spent a day flying phantoms and inspires i was out with unique
[2224.74] Jonathan Nicholson: just before uh christmas as well at their new place near rompford um the guys there were really
[2231.46] Jonathan Nicholson: helpful really good and we went flying them as well so so i one of the first things i did when
[2236.58] Jonathan Nicholson: i started on this was to make sure i had actually flown a drone um and and yes i have but my micro
[2243.14] Jonathan Nicholson: drone doesn't have gps so it hits the fence more than anything else i'm afraid see guys we need to
[2248.9] Jonathan Nicholson: get some goggles on him get him into fpv and then we so yeah so we've we've done fpv so we went to
[2255.22] Jonathan Nicholson: fan beret show and the fpv guys were there and we went to actually i think it was bfpvra and we
[2264.5] Jonathan Nicholson: went to alipali as well so um the guys that were organizing that we went behind the scenes the day
[2271.3] Jonathan Nicholson: before and to the actual event as well so senior in action yeah and of course the drone show as
[2277.22] Frank: well where they have the fpv racing as well where we've been yeah um so just a thought that i saw in
[2284.34] Frank: the chat um about uh people having sort of flown model aircraft for 30 years odd um and i think
[2290.74] Frank: what you were getting at earlier about um you know sort of having us regulating ourselves and the
[2298.82] Frank: um the the the with the dji leaflets and all this sort of thing and the test that andy was talking
[2305.46] Frank: about on the dji app um it all sounds like it's kind of trying to catch up um with sort of
[2314.58] Frank: historically like the model aircraft has just been sort of difficult to fly and you've needed
[2319.78] Frank: to join a club just to have somewhere to fly and have someone to teach you um and now these drones
[2325.3] Frank: are so easy to fly you know we can you can you can just buy it from a shop and give it to a 10
[2331.3] Frank: year old yeah and give it to a 10 year old and so it's it's not and it doesn't crash into the
[2335.78] Frank: ground in two seconds it flies off and carries on flying so i i guess kind of what we're trying to do
[2342.34] Frank: is technologically reinsert that self-regulation um back from from now that it's so easy to fly
[2352.26] Jonathan Nicholson: yeah so yeah i mean it's so we're about risk so we only regulate or want to do things where
[2358.18] Jonathan Nicholson: where there is a risk if you like if the risk doesn't exist we don't want to be there because
[2362.74] Jonathan Nicholson: there's nothing for us to do and we shouldn't be doing anything if we're a good regulator
[2367.46] Jonathan Nicholson: that we shouldn't be getting involved in regulating things where there's no risk
[2371.7] Jonathan Nicholson: um but you know at the moment there is perceived to be a risk and that's why we're we're in the
[2377.86] Jonathan Nicholson: space if you like if i equate it again to to general aviation um where we see responsible
[2385.22] Jonathan Nicholson: bodies that can take on work that we would otherwise do and do it for their community
[2391.94] Jonathan Nicholson: better than cheaper then we let them do it so yeah there's there's a body called the british
[2397.46] Jonathan Nicholson: microwave aircraft association which you know looks after a huge amount of what goes on with
[2403.7] Jonathan Nicholson: microlights as far as approving the types and looking after the regulating their ongoing upkeep
[2410.42] Jonathan Nicholson: and all that kind of stuff we completely devolve that to their own organization so the precedent
[2416.02] Jonathan Nicholson: is there for those kinds of things to happen it's you know it's not rocket science but people need
[2420.9] Jonathan Nicholson: to show they can do it and that their responsible body etc you know and and and then it can happen
[2428.26] Frank: yeah um there's been uh mentioned as well i mean after talking about the the risk um i mean there
[2435.22] Frank: has been the the report that was done by kineticum uh supported by balper and i think the dft um
[2443.54] Frank: about the you know the effect of um quadcopters on uh airline windows and uh on a small rotorcraft
[2451.94] Frank: and all this sort of thing and about how much damage it would do to those um and then there's
[2459.06] Frank: been a lot of questions in the chat and other questions on on facebook and elsewhere whenever
[2463.38] Frank: this has come up about is there been any look into like the the probability of this happening
[2469.7] Jonathan Nicholson: i mean yeah yeah absolutely so yeah we've looked at probability quite recently so we weren't involved
[2475.46] Jonathan Nicholson: in the in the research to to actually look at the impact on windscreens or whatever um and we've
[2481.54] Jonathan Nicholson: looked at probability as well and yeah of course it's it's pretty low the probability but i come
[2487.7] Jonathan Nicholson: back to the the point of in reality what am i most worried about what i'm most worried about
[2493.38] Jonathan Nicholson: is the things operating at low altitude you know if you look at the the tail rotor of a helicopter
[2500.1] Jonathan Nicholson: it's so fragile um you look at the the parachutist the paraglider the microlight
[2507.94] Jonathan Nicholson: pilot they've got no protection it is it is it is them you know and it might just be you know
[2515.22] Jonathan Nicholson: we we know you you guys know better than me you know stick your finger in in the whirring blades
[2521.46] Jonathan Nicholson: of one of your fbv's what happens you know so imagine that being a parachutist face are there
[2527.7] Andy: are there a lot of incidents with like big birds flying into those open copters in the smaller
[2534.1] Andy: house yes yeah it happens yeah so that's probably where the where it's it's coming from i guess
[2539.38] Andy: because i mean there's nothing you can do about birds obviously well there is but yeah so certainly
[2544.9] Jonathan Nicholson: certainly around airfields they do bird management sorry tony yeah they did do bird management around
[2551.46] Jonathan Nicholson: airfields after it you know so but yeah that that's so yeah if you look at traditional aviation
[2559.22] Jonathan Nicholson: that's what they equate it to they equate it to a bird strike if you like and and large airliners
[2565.3] Jonathan Nicholson: are certificated they're they're made and the engines are to to actually withstand a bird strike
[2571.7] Jonathan Nicholson: so you know absolutely an a320 going into heath row if it ingests a couple of seagulls in one engine
[2579.46] Jonathan Nicholson: it can fly fly perfectly well on the other engine to be able to come back and land but if you did
[2585.22] Jonathan Nicholson: that with a helicopter or a light aircraft they're not made or or or designed to to withstand that
[2593.06] Jonathan Nicholson: and you know and they they look at it in the same kind of way you know so you know a bird flying
[2599.86] Jonathan Nicholson: into a tail rotor of a helicopter into a light aircraft pilot's face or something like that
[2605.38] Jonathan Nicholson: it's absolutely going to be catastrophic and that's the way they look at it from yeah and
[2610.34] Jonathan Nicholson: they're the people operating at the at the low levels as well you know so the medivac helicopter
[2615.86] Jonathan Nicholson: around london quite often goes below me in my office and you know that that's that's where the
[2622.58] Jonathan Nicholson: the drones are going to be you know maybe not in central london but anywhere have you tried
[2628.02] Jack: working underground i've got two things um i've got some questions for uh andy and andy
[2637.46] Jack: or frank and andy hello um do you guys what you guys because like you guys have been in the hobby
[2643.38] Jack: your steep learning curve do you miss it do you miss you can't really ask andy i'll see this
[2649.38] Jack: because he reviews tat but um frank do you do you uh do you miss like the steep learning
[2656.34] Jack: curve or drones or do you prefer like i haven't i haven't got past that
[2663.14] Jack: i'm still on it i've seen me fly yeah i kind of miss it because like it gave me something to do
[2671.94] Andy: but i don't know like what do you mean by steep learning curve jap because i always find that
[2676.9] Andy: there's a new technology that comes out that i have to learn and uh i always find like i'm
[2682.42] Jack: climbing it you know i mean you know keeps the newbies out you know that sort of you know um i
[2689.62] Andy: think i think the biggest challenge is uh as programming the flight controllers um from what
[2694.5] Andy: i see in the comments on my reviews um a lot of people would just like a cop to that they could
[2700.5] Andy: just buy in one piece not have to plug into a computer to get it to get it working and i think
[2706.18] Andy: probably uh that's that's probably the biggest um hurdle for a lot of people is that getting
[2712.1] Jack: getting around the programming side of it yeah but do you do you miss that that buffer of like
[2718.02] Jack: because i often wonder about tony getting into this hobby because like if i was the bmfa i would
[2724.5] Jack: have been like you know you got the a test you got the b test especially design the c test called
[2730.02] Jack: the competent test and be like you do realize he can't walk upright don't give him a drone
[2736.5] Jack: you know i'm hoping you'll come on after that joke that's what you're trying to try and get him to
[2743.38] Jack: bait him come on toe yeah um so uh also i've got a bit of a comment for you jonathan i really like
[2750.9] Jack: the uh under illuminated glass vases in the back room there that's my that's my greenhouse
[2758.42] Jack: ah uh bruce if you're listening to this uh bruce simpson no um carry on frank i'm out of questions
[2766.98] Frank: um i was going to say about um with your uh sort of role with the educating all the various
[2773.94] Frank: people involved um have you had to uh are you involved at all in kind of letting the police
[2782.1] Frank: know what the rules are because i mean i know that's been a question of quite a few people
[2787.94] Frank: um did the police actually know what the rules are for drones well they should do uh i mean
[2794.34] Jonathan Nicholson: they're the enforcing agency in the uk so they're the people that have the responsibility to enforce
[2799.86] Jonathan Nicholson: drone law like they do any law it doesn't matter what the law is that that's that's their job but
[2804.9] Jonathan Nicholson: yeah i mean in reality you know they've got a lot of very important clients to work on and and
[2812.02] Jonathan Nicholson: protect people about and you know it's just another thing that that's been given to them to
[2817.22] Jonathan Nicholson: do so there will always be that you know and it's relatively new to them too as well so if you talk
[2823.38] Jonathan Nicholson: about the average policeman out on the beat and someone stops him in a park or whatever you know
[2828.42] Jonathan Nicholson: of all the things he's got to take in and learn it's it's just another thing that adds to it and
[2834.26] Frank: it is relatively new for them as well but do you have to like um you know liaise with the the
[2839.62] Frank: various police authorities and sort of let them know like this is what you know it is so that you
[2845.62] Jonathan Nicholson: know do they ask you i mean who who does so yeah so i i mean there are focal points that we speak to
[2853.22] Jonathan Nicholson: for the for the police um it varies from police force to police force what their interest is and
[2858.18] Jonathan Nicholson: how involved they are obviously you know they are a big user a big commercial user of drones themselves
[2864.1] Jonathan Nicholson: so you know a lot of them have drone units now that you know that i think they pull on to help
[2869.7] Jonathan Nicholson: with sort of like enforcing education within the within the rest of the police force as well but
[2875.14] Jonathan Nicholson: yes we do we do try to to bring them into the fold and you know let them know what's going on
[2881.62] Jonathan Nicholson: do you send out more leaflets i do
[2885.94] Jack: all that will teach them no but i do i do worry that um you know like some dog walker will just
[2892.82] Jack: um you know call it in and they'll the police will come over and they'll kind of
[2897.06] Jack: have like the back in the day sus law and you know be like well you've got you've got equipment
[2902.18] Jack: that could be used against terrorism and then just immediately take them off you um just to
[2908.1] Jack: kind of like deal with the situation whilst they kind of like review it or like look over your
[2914.82] Jack: stuff and what do you do do you ask for a seat it disrupts your day will you get your stuff back
[2921.06] Jack: you know like how far can they go i guess that's that's for the police to answer that's
[2927.46] Jonathan Nicholson: i mean i i don't know what what their rights are um i mean they're just enforcing the law like
[2933.06] Jonathan Nicholson: anyone else but you know it's really something that um that they need to educate themselves
[2938.58] Jonathan Nicholson: about so they they actually you know do it properly so um so uh i guess another question
[2945.06] Frank: that jack's just posted from one of our listeners um how do you get uh your you know information
[2953.3] Frank: um in order to make decisions about about the risk i mean there was there was the report that
[2958.26] Frank: you know that was by a different group of bodies um how when you're assessing the risk
[2964.98] Frank: where does the information come from because i we don't know what the what the risk is you can't
[2969.86] Jonathan Nicholson: ask us yeah yeah so well i mean we that's one of the things as well with a relatively new industry
[2975.94] Jonathan Nicholson: as well is you don't have that historical data to judge from if you lie um and obviously we've not
[2981.7] Jonathan Nicholson: had in the uk a collision with a drone and a and a light aircraft or any aircraft we've had collisions
[2988.82] Jonathan Nicholson: with radio controlled aircraft another aircraft um a manned aircraft but but not a drone um so we
[2995.22] Jonathan Nicholson: look at things like um the the near misreports that pilots file we look at what research is around
[3002.5] Jonathan Nicholson: in the world um and then as we sort of like you know um learn more you can adjust that risk but
[3009.94] Jonathan Nicholson: let's just say ultimately also remember as well there's not the cia that's deciding what
[3016.82] Jonathan Nicholson: legislation is or what happens that's coming from the government and from the european aviation
[3022.42] Jonathan Nicholson: safety agency we can influence them but ultimately it's it's those bodies that decide rather than
[3028.98] Frank: than us so so it's it's the the politicians who make the laws and it's the police who
[3034.42] Jonathan Nicholson: enforce them so so don't get angry at you but so you know we will do what we can to educate people
[3041.86] Jonathan Nicholson: you know our whole ethos is around evidence and risk you know um but also there's an element on
[3049.54] Jonathan Nicholson: there of you have to educate and you have to protect um and ultimately we need to protect
[3057.3] Jonathan Nicholson: those that that need protecting whether that be a passenger on an airliner or an air ambulance
[3063.78] Jonathan Nicholson: helicopter pilot you know they they need protecting all right um frank have you got something
[3072.1] Frank: i was i was just going to say um uh another question about um so sort of liaise with the
[3077.46] Frank: the police um and hobbyists and general aviation and everyone else um with the media do you have
[3085.3] Frank: like do they ask you questions all the time yeah do they do they actually listen
[3094.1] Jonathan Nicholson: so i mean the media have an obsession with drones and they have for years it is their one of their
[3100.74] Jonathan Nicholson: bet noirs of the moment if you like which is great from the fact of getting the idea out there
[3107.38] Jonathan Nicholson: and getting more people used to drones and getting people aware of what drones can do
[3113.22] Jonathan Nicholson: because the media have the appetite to be out there but the downside is they have the appetite
[3118.18] Jonathan Nicholson: to talk about absolutely anything to do with the drone that's not good if you like yeah they always
[3123.3] Andy: seem to take the negative spin on them you never see a positive drone thing oh i don't know did
[3130.1] Jonathan Nicholson: you look at the bbc home page this morning bbc news home page this morning what did it say they
[3135.3] Jonathan Nicholson: had a big video bit about the intel drone show in las vegas last night very own adam juniper has
[3142.18] Frank: some lovely photos of and i'm sure we'll try and drag him on here when he's back in the country
[3147.38] Jonathan Nicholson: but but we we do deal with the media a lot i do a lot of interviews and we try to be absolutely
[3154.34] Jonathan Nicholson: fact-based and fair so if you listen to what i say when i talk to the media i absolutely always
[3161.62] Jonathan Nicholson: put forward the positive side of the drone world as well right you just trod on a landmine ready
[3169.06] Jack: bruce simpson if you're listening to this please email us at let's drone out gmail.com
[3175.54] Jack: so what do you think then you know the whole truthfulness and you know facts and that what
[3180.42] Jack: do you think about the testing that turned out to be a lie of a drone hitting the windshield of a
[3186.34] Jonathan Nicholson: um airline now yeah is it a lie why why so i i we weren't involved in the research
[3196.74] Jonathan Nicholson: and i haven't seen the full research myself so i'm not really i feel really bad for jonathan
[3204.26] Andy: because it's like it's like it feels like we're ganging up good this is what happens welcome to
[3209.86] Jonathan Nicholson: let drone out i've been a press officer for 28 years and you know dealing with the national
[3216.1] Andy: media so you guys fine don't worry that's not our intention what we want to do is is have like a
[3223.94] Andy: dialogue between us and that's you know but these are the kind of questions the negative questions
[3229.46] Andy: that we think about all the time so it's not it's not that we're ganging up no no no but i still
[3235.14] Jonathan Nicholson: keep coming back to you know even if we say that the chances of causing a serious incident with an
[3242.1] Jonathan Nicholson: airliner are small you know then i could come back to that's not my real if you if you stop me
[3250.5] Jonathan Nicholson: and say what's your real issue my real issue is the other aviation users if you like that don't
[3257.94] Jonathan Nicholson: have that protection of a huge airframe and an engine that's built to to to take bird strikes
[3265.14] Jonathan Nicholson: and ingest bird strikes and shut down safely you know most light aircraft have one engine
[3271.3] Jonathan Nicholson: you know most private pilots you know microlight most microlight pilots don't have an airframe
[3278.02] Jonathan Nicholson: around them they might just be flying out there with a helmet an air ambulance helicopter with
[3284.1] Jonathan Nicholson: its tail rotor on the back that might be hovering dead still 20 foot above the ground you know why
[3291.46] Jonathan Nicholson: these comes along like this yeah yeah yeah so you know don't don't get drawn into just thinking
[3299.94] Jonathan Nicholson: about airliners and the fact that one of those phantoms isn't going to bring down an airliner
[3305.62] Jonathan Nicholson: that that is not one of my prime safety concerns it's all the aerospace users out there that don't
[3311.22] Jack: have that protection but the the reason why we haven't hit anyone is uh we're not trying hard
[3316.02] Jack: enough you know put some more effort in there's like please don't quote me off that'll be on the
[3323.62] Andy: news tomorrow you're throwing you the jokes that he's not trying hard enough to bring airliners
[3329.62] Andy: down yeah what are we doing Russell Brand look alike and sound alike not Russell Brand Russell
[3337.54] Jack: Brand tries to change my name to Russell I really want to pick up on something you said earlier
[3345.38] Frank: though um that you know if you were really worried you know it wouldn't be your top of priorities to
[3352.02] Frank: worry about the new prospective drone bill and drone registration and drone regulation that might
[3357.54] Frank: be coming in but that you'd be more worried about having somewhere to fly um I think with with Dom
[3364.58] Frank: in the chat um a bit I saw earlier um with you know arguing with Hidden Valley uh trying to get
[3372.18] Frank: that going again uh I think we can all relate to that um but yeah it would be good to keep in
[3379.38] Jonathan Nicholson: touch with you and um absolutely so so look out for the European regs so European regulations will
[3386.5] Jonathan Nicholson: probably come out in the next few months in their final form um and probably two to three years
[3392.26] Jonathan Nicholson: implementation um before they become law if you like and it's up to the UK government how much
[3398.42] Jonathan Nicholson: of that they take as well um and and then you've got to look for the drone bill sort of probably
[3404.74] Jonathan Nicholson: in a few months time as the first sort of draft cut of that and then they're the things you can
[3410.26] Jonathan Nicholson: sort of get your teeth around and work out exactly what's happening but yeah I say what I said earlier
[3415.06] Jonathan Nicholson: when we speak to these people they are well aware of the hobby users and as we see it they have every
[3421.7] Jonathan Nicholson: intention not to stop you doing anything that you're doing now yeah and there's just another
[3426.58] Frank: question that just pops up um with the do you know with the registration if that does happen
[3432.26] Frank: who's going to be running that is that going to be the CAA or is that going to be some other group
[3437.06] Frank: body what's going to happen with that yeah it's going to be decided it will be decided by the
[3441.62] Jonathan Nicholson: government by the department for transport as to exactly what form it takes whether it be drones
[3447.3] Jonathan Nicholson: that are registered or individuals that are registered how it works who does it those are
[3453.46] Jack: all things that the government needs to decide hang on right so what i've done is i emailed no
[3459.38] Jack: i text simon dale if you're familiar with that i know simon has provided me with 80 drone kits
[3466.58] Jack: that we've given to local schools and what i'm going to do is because i'm not the best at reading
[3471.94] Jack: stuff i am just going to paste it for me to read i bet yeah if you've got your phone there and is
[3477.86] Frank: it on silent it is here and it is on silent um while i'm while i'm finding this uh there's a huge
[3485.14] Frank: number of questions all popped up what about brexit hashtag brexit um don't forget about zero
[3492.18] Jonathan Nicholson: yeah um so brexit um government hasn't decided yet whether we will keep the err system when we
[3501.78] Jonathan Nicholson: when we leave it is possible there are other countries that do um err norway switzerland
[3507.54] Jonathan Nicholson: that aren't part of the eu um but that's to be decided and again it's it's something the
[3514.66] Jonathan Nicholson: government will decide it as part of all of its kind of negotiations you know i think the uh
[3521.54] Jack: err sir can stick them somewhere that sounds very um so the the message i've got here from
[3530.58] Frank: so this was from simon was it and jack yes simon dale yeah the lovely simon dale thank you for
[3536.82] Frank: always fighting for fpv um am i allowed to read this out have you has he given you permission yeah
[3544.1] Jack: yeah totally look i can hang on look okay i asked hang on okay so hold on let me read it
[3554.1] Jack: i was just gonna say oh no he look i text him hey simon we have a caa on at the moment want to
[3560.1] Jack: join if you're free he takes back just arrived in spain mate and i was like oh no problem mate
[3565.94] Jack: enjoy any questions slash something to read out also did you see the facebook thing
[3570.58] Frank: thanks for fighting for fpv by the way so what he said was did you see the caa risk study that came
[3577.22] Frank: out two days ago uh the chance of a drone even being in the proximity of an airliner in is two
[3583.22] Frank: in every million flight movements the chance of it hitting it are even less uh and then there's the
[3590.1] Frank: redacted kinetic study which shows that we were told by rob curry on 27th of february 2017 at the
[3596.26] Frank: caa no drone penetrated an airliner windscreen uh i am meeting dft head of drones uh next friday
[3603.86] Andy: about this stuff uh i think i think jonathan sort of already covered that hasn't he when he
[3609.54] Andy: just sort of said that airliners on aren't what he's worried about it's just yeah it's the lower
[3614.34] Jonathan Nicholson: stuff yeah definitely yeah it's kind of what i said so yeah so yes i've seen the proximity
[3619.06] Jonathan Nicholson: paper we published and that's right that's that's what it says but if you read the next paragraph
[3623.14] Jonathan Nicholson: of that proximity report it goes on to talk about helicopters light aircraft lower airspace users
[3631.46] Jonathan Nicholson: and and it's also it's not just it's distraction to airline pilots as well you know so and knock
[3637.78] Jonathan Nicholson: on effects for air traffic controllers if you if you look at you know a drone the the the the
[3643.38] Jonathan Nicholson: gatwick drone incident last year in the summer that led to lots of air airline has been diverted
[3649.06] Jonathan Nicholson: you know that huge increase for air traffic controller workload to suddenly think about
[3656.34] Jonathan Nicholson: 20 flights is he or she has got to move into different pieces of airspace and it's that knock
[3661.86] Jonathan Nicholson: on effect that can cause other incidents and and that's what you want to avoid i wonder if
[3667.62] Andy: jonathan's aware of what tbs did aren't they using so or they're trying some kind of avoidance
[3674.9] Frank: but this is um this is the i can't what it's called and sure jack will find out in a second
[3680.18] Frank: it's the the system that i think is not legal in the uk but is uh across europe particularly in
[3686.58] Jonathan Nicholson: the alps for gliders one step up from trying to get hawks and eagles to take drones out in the sky
[3692.66] Jack: yeah it comes with it begins with a d i know what you're on about yes there are many different
[3698.02] Jonathan Nicholson: systems out there so so the way the way the ultimately the way this this whole issue is
[3703.3] Jonathan Nicholson: going to resolve itself is is is kind of a couple of things really there's going to be
[3708.82] Jonathan Nicholson: the education stuff which has to carry on there's going to be technological stuff on the drones
[3715.22] Jonathan Nicholson: geofencing times 100 or whatever that is and then there's going to be ground-based systems to
[3721.38] Jonathan Nicholson: to keep drones away from sites of whatever importance for for the people that can knock
[3729.06] Jonathan Nicholson: off all the systems on the drone if you like whether that be a prison or whatever um and
[3734.9] Jonathan Nicholson: and those are the three system three things that will come together to to to sort of give you the
[3739.62] Andy: nirvana if you like tina says tca s like system it's called basically yeah yeah basically what
[3748.82] Andy: they did is they they they took an fpv wing and fitted this system and it avoided it was
[3755.22] Jonathan Nicholson: it a glide it's not t cast so much it will be ads b ads b and out just to throw even more acronyms
[3761.38] Jonathan Nicholson: at you um so t cast is what airliners have even light aircraft not many light aircraft even have
[3767.78] Jonathan Nicholson: t cast t cast is really involved and basically the two aircraft talk to each other individually if
[3773.78] Jonathan Nicholson: they get too close and then instruct their pilots coordinate and instruct their pilots
[3778.74] Jonathan Nicholson: to avoid each other that's when on airliners what you're probably more likely to see is something
[3784.02] Jonathan Nicholson: like ads b which is a much cheaper solution yeah um and and uh and gliders have flam they're all
[3791.38] Jonathan Nicholson: very similar systems flam i think that might have been what they were yeah i mean flam is
[3796.42] Jonathan Nicholson: only in gliders you don't really get that in anything else it needs to be all it surely it
[3801.46] Jonathan Nicholson: just needs to be one system yeah yeah yeah but if you talk to to light aircraft owners
[3806.9] Jonathan Nicholson: there's there's so i say to light aircraft owners another thing you can learn from drones
[3811.22] Jonathan Nicholson: is the fact that for 800 pounds they've got gps collision avoidance you know or to fit all of
[3818.02] Jonathan Nicholson: that into a light aircraft you're talking tens of thousands of pounds at the moment
[3823.46] Jonathan Nicholson: there's lots of light aircraft that fly around that don't even have a radio or an electrical
[3827.46] Jonathan Nicholson: system so you know you're talking about bringing them up to a certain level as well if you're
[3832.98] Jonathan Nicholson: talking about everybody separating by ads b or flam or whatever don't worry we're trying to bring
[3839.54] Frank: tony up you know educate him and stuff it's fine um but yeah uh so following on from what i said
[3847.3] Frank: earlier about having somewhere to fly i've got a quick uh message here from steve of drone racing
[3853.54] Frank: manchester um so they've uh uh just reopened yesterday this year and hopefully they'll be
[3862.5] Frank: able to keep going as long as loads of people keep going and flying there so i'm gonna play this but
[3867.3] Frank: thank you uh for coming on jonathan and hopefully we can have you back at some point um absolutely
[3874.5] Jonathan Nicholson: so you know once we have uh yeah once we have some more stuff on the the uk drone bill or
[3879.54] Jonathan Nicholson: registration or the european stuff they're absolutely very happy to come on and talk about
[3883.54] Frank: them brilliant thank you very much for coming on i will take a pleasure play us out of this thank
[3890.34] Steve (Drone Racing Manchester): you right hello my name is steve i'm one of the owners of drone racing manchester which is based
[3896.9] Steve (Drone Racing Manchester): in addleton we provide track facilities drone racing pilots for the future we're looking to
[3902.26] Steve (Drone Racing Manchester): accommodate the walking market you'll be able to walk in off the street and try drone racing for
[3907.54] Steve (Drone Racing Manchester): the first time similar to those that would maybe do go karti we're currently charging um five pound
[3914.02] Steve (Drone Racing Manchester): per hour to bring your own drone and fly there and but you can also book sessions for 12 pound
[3919.7] Steve (Drone Racing Manchester): for three hours and also private booking sessions are available as well you can find out more about
[3926.74] Steve (Drone Racing Manchester): us on drone racing manchester.com and even better you can find us on facebook and get messages to
[3933.38] Steve (Drone Racing Manchester): us i'd like to say thanks to Let's Drone Out and particular thanks to Velocidrone for their support
[3938.66] Steve (Drone Racing Manchester): and the Yorkshire Drone Racing FPV guys and the Drinkwater drone racing guys who without their
[3944.5] Steve (Drone Racing Manchester): support uh we would found things very difficult uh thank you very much and i hope to see you guys
[3949.94] Frank: down at drone racing manchester just and a quick note to the end of that as well uh they've got a
[3955.94] Frank: GoFundMe campaign going to try and keep the doors open so if you can't make it down there anytime
[3961.22] Frank: soon you can bang on the fiver and keep them going until you can awesome i need to get myself
[3968.26] Andy: up there i do it's it's not far from me at all it'd be cool to we should have a Let's Drone Out
[3974.66] Andy: visits up there it'd be awesome yeah sounds good man it's a bit far for you guys though yeah i know
[3981.22] Jack: and like you know we'll be fitting the door because we have to wear so many clothes and also
[3986.9] Jack: all these northern comments you're probably just going to get mobbed and get built a wall to keep
[3993.62] Andy: us out yeah that was awesome of Jonathan to come on i i felt bad for him because it's kind of like
[3999.94] Andy: we're all ganging up on him that wasn't the intention but i think we just all have these
[4004.34] Andy: questions all the time building up and um yeah it was great of him to come on it great to keep that
[4010.26] Frank: contact as well yeah so Richard Harwood in the chat just said is it CAA registered uh drone racing
[4016.66] Frank: manager is indoors so you don't need to worry about any regulations because i really don't
[4021.54] Frank: think any aviation authority is going to care about you flying indoors apart from maybe FAA maybe
[4028.18] Jack: yeah also we didn't swear as well so if we keep doing this we could just upload this editing
[4036.5] Jack: wow i know uh don't forget guys uh patreon tony's going to be pushing this let's drone out forward
[4044.5] Jack: patreon also tony having a go at me as well link in the chat description or whatever uh
[4054.02] Frank: richard warrick asked is there is there anything like that managed to racetrack in the southeast
[4058.42] Frank: uh there is drone base uh which you can get in contact through the kent quadcopter race club guys
[4065.86] Frank: i believe um and aqrc that's right isn't it um pretty sure that's driving and then there's also
[4074.18] Frank: uh pop them uh so drone zone over there um so depending on where you're about those are your
[4081.3] Jack: probably your best bets uh patches what size are you for a hoodie do i actually type that
[4094.13] Andy: no i just wrote incompetent seven i think there's a still i think there's still a lot of unanswered
[4101.57] Andy: questions though but i think the the main gist from that is just try not to worry too much it's
[4107.17] Andy: difficult when it's all over the media all the time new drone regular like you know but but it's
[4113.73] Frank: it's the same thing you know we tell people not to worry about drones he's saying don't worry
[4119.33] Frank: about the regulations um we're saying we're never going to be flying up with airliners he's saying
[4125.89] Frank: we know we don't we're not worried about you flying into airliners we're worried about you
[4128.93] Frank: crashing into a parachutist yeah um so i think we're all on the same page and it's just
[4135.25] Andy: media muddying the waters i think i think that's what it is it's just the media isn't it you know
[4139.65] Andy: just getting like they they're selling papers if they can put dramatic things on your drone will
[4145.41] Andy: is will bring down an airliner and stuff like that it sells papers it's and when when he said
[4152.13] Andy: juree bbc news i don't read any news because it's all non it's not it's not healthy no it's not
[4157.65] Andy: healthy someone who you don't know has died and it doesn't affect you any anyway but be scared of it
[4165.17] Jack: that's the news in a nutshell yeah um the thing is right i appreciate him being like yeah don't
[4171.89] Jack: worry and like we know you're not going to do blah blah blah blah um you know and be
[4179.81] Jack: an idiot with a drone but um the thing is does the does the ministry of defense know that well
[4186.29] Frank: it's not the ministry of defense organizing anything either i mean who did that big scary bill
[4192.69] Frank: that was kinetic department for transport and balper no but the the sort of thing that
[4199.17] Jack: we're going to make everyone register government bill oh that's one well that's um that's not
[4205.25] Frank: transport yeah that was the they know we're not idiots well yeah they've said as long as there's
[4212.21] Frank: a you know they're going to nominate groups in each country to kind of deal with the models
[4217.97] Frank: modelers so you know as long as you're signed up with bmfa then they're going to be able to
[4224.05] Frank: kind of say there you go you can fly your i also i think as well you know he's talking about these
[4229.01] Andy: autonomous drones for services i think they're going to be such a bigger nightmare for them
[4234.45] Andy: than than we are we'll just be like they'll forget about or as soon as they're having to deal with
[4239.97] Jack: amazon and stuff like that you know yeah i know yeah true um everyone uh who's listening we're
[4245.81] Jack: joined by tony wearing an rc explorer top hold on hold on let me present you uh say something tony
[4253.73] Andy: hello everyone hello everyone hi i am tony it's not a coincidence tony that you decided to opt out
[4259.89] Andy: when the caa i think you just enjoyed enjoying the show to be honest i was i i was i just like
[4266.69] Andy: i kept thinking i'm not chatting very much but it was just nice to listen to frank you need your own
[4272.45] Jack: serious podcast i think you need serious fpv talk because like the thing is you you could really
[4279.57] Jack: you know with stuff like that you could really have a good show without us to us bellens are
[4284.21] Jack: just dragging you down mate why don't you ask 20 minutes you stepped in questions and you know
[4290.69] Jack: didn't offend anyone you didn't once mention his leds you know like well you know i'm just trying to
[4297.97] Frank: why do you know yourself like i know everyone in the chat is like you you need to be harder on
[4302.53] Frank: him you're giving too easy a time but you know i don't know you could see the sweat come off him
[4307.65] Jack: he didn't move around a lot he he didn't have he didn't have a back to his chair do you know
[4312.61] Jack: what i mean you could hear his wife in the background he's probably gone crying to her
[4317.09] Jack: no i was he seemed like a nice guy yeah yeah i know like he definitely didn't deserve being
[4322.61] Jack: on letro now stop presenting me please oh sorry carry on talking you don't need to
[4331.81] Jack: not one person was like you do realize you're coming on the the fpv podcast where they talk
[4337.25] Jack: about whether the earth's flat or not you know like just i mean would you yeah is it worth
[4343.89] Jack: chatting to offcom i prefer offcom not knowing who i am too late it would be interesting i would be
[4351.33] Jack: interested to know no could you get simon dale offcom and this is the kind of i've asked simon
[4359.17] Frank: dale to come on before and multiple times yeah i know not interested he'd rather go
[4366.05] Andy: that's fair enough why would you guys want offcom as in to talk about radio frequencies
[4373.01] Jack: yeah yeah i can't use 1.3 not everyone wants to send satellites or weather balloons up
[4379.73] Frank: and in the uk though that is a pretty big thing satellites and weather balloons
[4384.21] Jack: yeah and then the other side of it is you know like can we just borrow it for an hour
[4388.69] Jack: um and you know and the other thing it's like 25 milliwatts come on it is crap 25 isn't it
[4395.41] Jack: he said the c word but if you've got decent antenna yeah but you have to get a tracker
[4401.25] Jack: and everything i know like tony's been on three milliwatts he's been very compliant this week
[4407.09] Jack: do you want to tell them about your uh dodgy dodgy vtx
[4412.05] Tony: legal vtx no someone repaired my vtx but i just found out what's wrong with my you know the is
[4418.69] Jack: it ufl connector u f dot l connector all that i had snapped off or you can call it as well
[4428.77] Jack: there's a different name it's like pal let me let me find it well we don't need to google it just
[4433.65] Tony: call it that anyway i found it interesting and you've stolen my tester now and when i tested
[4440.45] Tony: it it was only putting out three mh f4 i couldn't see where i was flying so i've changed it today
[4450.37] Jack: mh f u dot f l is it this like why is there several names because i think
[4457.81] Jack: no that's the yeah the mh f is what size it is isn't it i hate the fact that they clip on and
[4465.41] Tony: clip off well that's why i'm permanently and that's why jack's got some toothpaste for you
[4472.45] Jack: oh wicked you got the toothpaste yeah and there's also a little i'm now selling little bags of it
[4479.73] Tony: oh my god you're actually you you are real aren't you you're putting that in a bag and
[4485.57] Jack: no i put some i put some in a bag for bradders and then that looks like something you take to
[4491.01] Andy: the doctors that yeah right this came out of me i think you've got an idea there jack if you need
[4498.85] Frank: me to put a spreadsheet together to work out how much you should sell it for let me know yeah sure
[4503.73] Jack: i mean i do want to go on the european fpv let's drone out road trip you know if i can make money
[4508.93] Jack: selling clafla i'm cooking i'm booking myself on there and you need to come with us oh it's just
[4517.09] Jack: what's wrong with the uk do it you're in the uk i want you to make you more compliant unless
[4525.17] Frank: with your we can do it without like stupid amount of paperwork yeah and visas and travel
[4531.49] Jack: insurance and teresa may greeting us at the border being like you're not coming back in
[4536.61] Andy: i thought um i thought it was interesting what he said about like the bmfa and potentially being
[4543.89] Andy: exempt it nothing was set in stone but what would you guys all join because the bmfa is great
[4549.57] Andy: because it also offers insurance so if you're into if you enter racing you need insurance to
[4554.85] Andy: erase them right would you guys all join um i'm a member anyways i was i need to renew my thing
[4562.93] Frank: as well yeah thank you everyone renew your bmfa membership
[4571.65] Andy: it's 30 quid a year and like you're insured up for like is it a million pound or something plus
[4578.21] Andy: fees plus whatever else is crazy so i think if anyone anyone who's serious about fpv i think
[4585.17] Andy: if there's an exemption for like being a member of like an organization like the bmfa
[4591.65] Andy: then um i think that would be awesome because then we all just at 30 quid a year you're insured
[4597.09] Andy: and you don't have to take any tests you're exempt from all these things it's also um
[4602.05] Jack: also like the bmfa there's a lot of very sensible people
[4607.25] Andy: you know yeah a lot with a lot of nonsensical people there as well but oh yeah yeah yeah
[4614.93] Frank: once we've renewed i mean they they have been a lot more open to fpv uh i mean they were
[4621.09] Frank: really against it when it first became on the scene and but now you know they're holding
[4626.29] Frank: goggle fest every year um yeah that's a complete turnaround isn't it yeah um but it's the same
[4632.61] Frank: thing that's happened with everything in model aircraft forever you know when helicopters
[4638.61] Frank: came out they were really not happy with them they were banned everywhere and now
[4643.57] Andy: they have their own sights i think that's a good idea because if you're just gonna
[4647.25] Andy: more binding really up to no no no no please specify around the whole the whole joining a group
[4655.25] Andy: sort of thing because if you're if you're buying like a phantom from mapplin right you're not
[4659.57] Andy: going to have a clue um about like the bmfa and things and safety therefore you should have to
[4666.21] Andy: i don't know maybe take a test or anything but or something like that to make sure that
[4670.77] Andy: you're being safe but if if you are a community part of the community that we are and enjoy
[4676.77] Andy: enjoying like a a body uh maybe not even the bmfa but like just you know an fpv group
[4684.05] Andy: then and you're part of that there that can be exempt then i think that's that should be i think
[4689.97] Andy: that's a good way to to deal with it because it's sort of set as a way to separate the hobbyists
[4695.33] Frank: from the go to mapplin i think the the the guys who fly phones into prison or the guys who like
[4703.09] Andy: bought something from mapplin yeah exactly you're not going to get them joining the bmfa i mean
[4707.57] Andy: they might do if they find out that gets exempt but then you'd have to put if you're willing to
[4712.93] Andy: put 30 quid a year down as well you know i think that that's that tells you you're serious would
[4719.41] Jack: the bmfa really be up for you know um supporting a drug smuggler do you know what i mean i think
[4730.37] Frank: that might invalidate your insurance yeah i'm sure there's some sort of clause but they wouldn't do
[4735.73] Frank: it anyway is what i'm saying they wouldn't uh yeah like rick werricks says in the chat fpvuk
[4740.61] Frank: insured members as well uh simon dell's been fighting uh for fvv things for a long while
[4746.53] Jack: putting petitions together and stuff you need to add .org on the end of that so it's fpvuk.org
[4754.69] Andy: so if you're a member of that organization you're serious about this you know you want
[4758.61] Andy: you want insurance you want to be safe therefore you're probably following a lot of rules and not
[4764.69] Jack: being dangerous and things uh tony's got a story how his insurance got his um phantom not confiscated
[4771.33] Jack: from him what story is that drek oh are you wet away and they were like there's nothing stopping
[4777.41] Jack: you from flying that on the tarmac and then they saw that you had insurance yeah just flash from
[4783.49] Andy: your cards that's all you need yeah i want the gatwing yeah yeah yeah i always keep my bmfa card
[4791.65] Tony: on me sorry what about the planes that fly under 400 foot they need telling off i was flying the
[4799.73] Tony: other day and a plane flew over me lower than 400 foot i think this is what bruce was getting out
[4805.17] Andy: in his video is that like there's a lot of people who misbehave in general aviation more i mean
[4812.53] Andy: every other video he posts on his channel is a plane that's a pilot that's ignoring notans and
[4819.25] Jack: things like that you know notice it was um it was like um last uh international drone day
[4827.09] Jack: every national drone day yeah we put out notan and they're like oh what's this and then they
[4833.41] Jack: fly to us really low to find out what we're doing you know it's almost like a beacon of like here
[4839.41] Jack: have you seen this it's like a little you know like where shouldn't you go to say it might just
[4845.57] Frank: be the novelty of like us putting out a no-town of like up to what was it i think we put up to like
[4853.25] Frank: some stupid number up to like 20 odd drones in you know up to a thousand feet you know whatever
[4860.61] Frank: it was like and people were like flying along doing barrel rolls and yeah thinking about in
[4866.45] Andy: the air i think um i think it's like jonathan was saying though a lot of these light aircraft
[4870.21] Andy: don't have the means to find out about those no-towns like they've been there they were like
[4876.21] Frank: doing aerobatics above where the no-towns were like yeah we'll enjoy this you know we talked
[4882.45] Tony: about that flam uh how many episodes ago did we talk about it and um someone was making one and
[4889.49] Tony: they they'd made it like that big i mean that can go in anything and to be very very cheap
[4896.05] Frank: on it so why why can't we just just do that i first heard about that at the the same event
[4902.61] Frank: that i met jonathan which was um farmborough air show where i was with the bfpvra um a couple
[4909.49] Frank: of years ago now i guess and there was the guy there who designed all the product design stuff
[4915.01] Frank: for uh spectrum um so you know transmitters um and he had been working on for ages these uh
[4924.77] Frank: um you know electronic conspicuity i think is the kind of generic term but flam adsb
[4930.77] Frank: all that kind of stuff and making tiny tiny tiny ones um well making stuff for light aircraft and
[4935.97] Frank: then made it even tinier um and it's kind of a continuation of that i think um but yeah surely
[4943.01] Tony: by now it should be that big and 10 quid and everyone can you could put it on a paper plane
[4948.29] Frank: if you wanted to yeah the issue is finding a system that the caa can use um or anyone like that
[4958.05] Jack: then it pushes the price up to get it certified and everything and then well it's certification
[4962.93] Frank: but there's also like like jonathan was talking about we have so many millions of things going
[4968.53] Frank: around in uk airspace that it's trying to find a system that works for everyone well enough that
[4975.33] Frank: doesn't like need a huge server farm that's impossibly fast is it's a bit like how we can't
[4982.53] Frank: settle on kiss be a flight or race flight yeah like we can't even agree on like like um protocols
[4992.29] Frank: for receivers you know yeah i can't agree on uh like you know the actual transmitter protocols
[4998.53] Frank: we can't we can't even agree on like the vtx frequencies yeah well we can offcom just told us
[5007.89] Frank: i mean like you know do we use f bands do we use e-band or not not efony because they're
[5012.69] Frank: different but f and r or whatever um so brad has asked in the chat uh what's the point of getting
[5020.29] Frank: insurance i do know people who have made claims on insurance um uh if someone crashes into a van
[5029.33] Frank: because they're trying to teach someone who decides to be a bit of a tit
[5033.89] Frank: and flies in the opposite direction because he's being difficult because he's a
[5038.21] Frank: little kid um and you don't flick the trainer switch buddy box thing back quick enough then
[5045.49] Frank: you can make him dent in someone's car and it's very expensive to replace that panel
[5050.77] Andy: but if you have insurance it sorts it out for you also also back in the day of uh glow fuel planes
[5056.37] Andy: people used to get killed a lot not not in the air when you stop saying that whilst recorded
[5062.85] Andy: can you it's all right jack people don't fly i see anymore yeah no people people used to get killed
[5071.01] Andy: and it and uh on on the ground it's true though i'm just saying jack's worried about the uh the
[5077.89] Frank: news tomorrow doing a mash-up of like little tiny little clips of the the show tonight i know i'm
[5083.49] Frank: like jack being like flying a gatwick because someone got killed it was tony but tony gets
[5090.45] Andy: tony's on bbc it used to cover that like like for life and damage like that as well you know
[5098.93] Andy: it's it's important thing to have i've always had it especially if you're flying to someone's face
[5105.73] Jack: yeah bmfa please if anyone listens to this and you're high up in the bmfa
[5112.77] Jack: auto renew on insurance please oh yeah for the love of if fpv.org can do it it's not hard these
[5124.85] Frank: these aren't fun great oh i like the whole like membership renewal thing like even doing it
[5133.97] Frank: manually is a absolute pain in the ass it's not easy is there a phone number can i just phone them
[5139.49] Jack: um uh i'm sure you could find them find me the phone number tomorrow i've got the phone
[5146.85] Jack: number here but i won't read it out on it yeah totally read it out let's find them now
[5153.17] Andy: what's the number i'm gonna put it in the chat i'm gonna let you read it out because i i'm getting
[5158.05] Andy: in enough trouble doing this uh well is it someone really high up in the bmfa no no it's off it's
[5164.05] Frank: off this card double one six two double four double zero two eight there you go
[5171.81] Jack: no one's gonna answer at this time of night no no right should we call it there guys
[5180.45] Frank: we haven't sworn there's a good market of just about the hour where it goes silent for a bit
[5186.21] Frank: after the dr m clip so you can cut it there if you want wow i won't listen to that bit but tony
[5193.01] Jack: remember that um thank you you've been listening to let your own out thank you uh thank you for
[5200.21] Jack: tuning in and thank you to all our patreons who are supporting us tonight you've been joined by
[5205.65] Jack: andrew or sash rank hello goodbye andy arcy bye bye thanks for watching my beloved wife tony
[5214.53] Tony: i'll be on from eight p.m next week i hope you look really tired man i'm stressed bro i'm
[5223.01] Frank: tony's been having a bad day so please please support tony three years like subscribe patreon
[5230.69] Frank: thing like facebook page join facebook group email things into us whether yeah can i have
[5237.17] Jack: one favor so if you type in um everyone in the chat who's doing this you go to let's uh no hang on
[5246.69] Jack: let's go to soundcloud uh so i'm gonna post a link in the chat can you guys review us on
[5254.61] Jack: itunes if everyone in the chat just goes there and does that now um then that helps boost us
[5263.97] Jack: and could put us in for an award so stuff like that and gets us into ratings and yeah not enough
[5272.77] Jack: people have a wooden spoon yeah uh not enough people have rated this podcast to give us
[5277.81] Jack: information on it so yeah post this on the chat nine people have done it but we need to put that
[5286.21] Frank: on like all the the podcasts we've got like thousands of people listening all around the
[5290.85] Tony: world to the podcast you know it helps you know and the patreons you guys are really helping us
[5298.37] Tony: there's so much for the editing it's the editing the editing takes ages i've done three hours of
[5304.29] Jack: time stamps today it is horrendous what me and tony go through we've got we've got our own
[5312.93] Jack: yeah the links in the in the chat um but yeah if you could go on to itunes and rate us you know
[5320.37] Jack: what we've forgotten to say yeah what who we've got who we've got on next week who have we got
[5325.41] Jack: on next week joshua bardwell hey josh is back we need to remind him though is that next next week
[5332.69] Tony: you say yeah dynamite girl is going to join patreon next week and yeah next month thank you
[5340.13] Tony: we might just about be able to clear everything so me and you don't have to do any more working
[5346.29] Jack: in the evenings and then oh man we are mutually tony in the day listens to it sends me time stamps
[5353.01] Jack: on our own whatsapp group message and then i have to read through them and then edit the podcast
[5358.61] Tony: then go through it it is the worst it starts off me speaking nicely and then it gets down to the
[5364.53] Tony: bottom yeah you say you you you idiots i know and then yeah just the hate for each other grows
[5374.21] Jack: and then you just hear tony just die inside so cool thank you guys and good night
[5381.65] Jack: cheers please telemetry loss