=== Let's Drone Out — Episode 128 ===
Title: SnakeFPV SNAAAAAKKKKEEEEE
Recorded: 2018-02-08
Hosts: Neil "NJ Tech" Jones, Jack "Brightontillifly" Nash, Andy, Tony "TheTonstar1" Marchant
Guest(s): Anaseed, Justin "SnakeFPV" Power, Paul Bitmatta
Total audience: 2,523
Platforms: YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLyN_oFuUKk); SoundCloud (http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/feeds.soundcloud.com/stream/403139532-letsdroneout-snakefpv-snaaaaakkkkeeeee.mp3)
=====================================

Guest SnakeFPV https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2lMtWiCL2Xz59rQGbIcTVw

[0.46] (Editor): This episode was edited thanks to the patreon support of...
[7.7] (Editor): and thanks a lot for supporting the show and allowing me to actually do a good job of editing this podcast.
[18.42] (Editor): Is there an option on patreon that people can donate so they don't swear or so that they keep the episodes to an hour?
[23.42] (Editor): If not...
[25.42] (Editor): Okay, fine.
[27.82] (Editor): Enjoy the show.
[28.82] Snake: Now I'm a tree recovered.
[30.82] Tony: It didn't help it, could you?
[36.68] Tony: One more full art track.
[41.96] Snake: You go to our soundboard.
[46.9] Jack: Yeah.
[47.9] Jack: Snake, press the action button to get down that ladder.
[54.9] Jack: Hello, you're listening to Ledge Drone out.
[57.9] Jack: And tonight we are joined by the legend, Solid Snake, FPV.
[65.9] Snake: I should change my name to that.
[68.9] Jack: The legend.
[70.9] Jack: I'd just like to point out that you did say that, Tony, you looked cute as May Ling.
[76.9] Tony: Oh, thanks.
[78.9] Tony: I might style my hair like that when I grow it.
[83.9] Jack: We're joined by N.J.
[85.9] Jack: Hello.
[86.9] Jack: The editor.
[87.9] Jack: They can't hear you.
[91.34] UNKNOWN: Yeah, I know.
[92.34] Jack: My queen.
[94.34] Jack: And of course, everyone's lovable, Andy Arce.
[99.34] Andy: Hello.
[100.34] Jack: I was trying to make him wear sunglasses so he could be like...
[103.34] Andy: Yeah, I can do that.
[105.34] Andy: Two seconds.
[106.34] Jack: And you know what to ask him.
[108.34] Andy: There we go.
[112.34] Jack: Come on.
[113.34] Jack: You know the question.
[114.34] Jack: Me?
[118.46] Jack: No.
[119.46] Jack: Andy Arce, do you like my sunglasses, Snake?
[121.46] Jack: God damn you.
[122.46] Jack: That's what I was...
[123.46] Andy: I don't think I get the joke.
[125.46] Andy: What's the...
[126.46] Andy: What's the joke?
[127.46] Andy: Explain the joke.
[130.46] Andy: It's always better.
[131.46] Andy: There is always funny when you have to explain.
[134.46] NJ: This is dialogue from the game, isn't it?
[136.46] NJ: Yeah, pretty much.
[137.46] NJ: Yeah.
[138.46] NJ: Quite a long time ago that.
[139.46] NJ: Wow.
[140.46] Tony: Yeah, PlayStation One.
[143.46] Jack: My sunglasses, Snake.
[149.46] Jack: Hang on.
[150.46] Jack: I will play the clip.
[151.46] Jack: You're not going to play it.
[152.46] Jack: I'm looking for the clip.
[153.46] Jack: I don't know whether I'll find the clip.
[156.46] Jack: Snake, did you like my sunglasses?
[159.46] Jack: Snake, did you like my sunglasses?
[163.46] Jack: There you go.
[164.46] Andy: I messed up the entire bit.
[166.46] Andy: I just thought you wanted me to look cool.
[170.46] Jack: I prefer Andy Arce in sunglasses when I first met him.
[174.46] Jack: Oh yeah, that's true.
[175.46] Andy: Yeah, but that was because it was sunny.
[177.46] Andy: You know, I was burnt to a crisp.
[179.46] Tony: Don't take much, though, Andy, does it?
[181.46] Tony: No.
[182.46] Andy: Just the lights from the room.
[185.46] Andy: Do you want a handigan?
[186.46] Andy: Yeah.
[189.46] Tony: Yes, I have 50 water in your house, not 100.
[192.46] Andy: Even those energy saving ones, I'm like, I have to cream up, you know.
[197.46] Jack: Not the first time you said that?
[199.46] UNKNOWN: No.
[201.46] Jack: Right.
[202.46] Tony: Come on.
[204.46] Jack: Hey, Snake, how are you doing?
[207.46] Snake: I'm doing good.
[209.46] Snake: I'm still waking up.
[210.46] Snake: I'm only halfway through my coffee, so.
[212.46] Jack: Oh, mate.
[213.46] Jack: I feel so bad.
[214.46] Jack: Do you want us to just talk amongst ourselves to you kind of?
[218.46] Snake: Just just just prod me with questions and I'll probably respond in some way.
[224.46] Jack: It's good to see that you've got some like knickknacks in your house now.
[229.46] Jack: It's not looking so bad.
[233.34] Snake: It's getting there.
[234.34] Snake: Yeah, it's getting there.
[236.34] Snake: I'm charging some batteries.
[237.34] Snake: I've actually got some batteries to charge now.
[240.34] Snake: It's good.
[241.34] Jack: Yeah.
[242.34] Jack: So it's good.
[243.34] Snake: I got I got punched up.
[244.34] Snake: Yeah, it's all good.
[245.34] Jack: So for anyone who don't know, Paul Snake was a victim of a TV fire.
[252.34] Jack: Is that right?
[254.34] Snake: Oh, well, a full blown house fire would probably be a more accurate
[258.34] Snake: description, but it was caused by a faulty TV.
[261.34] Snake: Yeah.
[262.34] Tony: Not a Li-Fi battery.
[264.34] Snake: No, surprisingly enough.
[266.34] Snake: You would think it would be a Li-Fi.
[268.34] Snake: I assumed it was a Li-Fi.
[269.34] Snake: And then the fire brigade were like, well, this is where the fire started.
[273.34] Snake: I'm like, there's no there.
[275.34] Snake: How we're nowhere near it.
[277.34] Snake: Wow.
[278.34] Snake: I'm like, the only thing that was there was like a 10 year old no name
[283.34] Snake: Chinese LCD TV that a friend had given me.
[288.34] Snake: It was in standby mode.
[290.34] Snake: It wasn't even switched on.
[292.34] Andy: So I take it.
[293.34] Andy: I take it.
[294.34] Andy: There were Li-Pos in the house.
[295.34] Andy: Oh, yeah.
[296.34] Snake: There was like a hundred and there would have been about a hundred and
[299.34] Snake: twenty Li-Pos.
[301.34] Andy: Wow.
[302.34] Andy: So once those went up with after the fire had started, that's probably not
[306.34] Andy: how I would get.
[307.34] Snake: They were about 20 meters away.
[312.34] Snake: Maybe 10 meters away from where the where the TV was in a metal cabinet.
[317.34] Snake: They were in like, you know, those like normally so that the annoying thing
[323.34] Snake: about the whole situation was that I'd only recently moved into that house.
[328.34] Snake: And normally I would have my stuff spread out in different places like my camera
[332.34] Snake: equipment.
[333.34] Snake: My Li-Pos would be stored somewhere else.
[337.34] Snake: But, you know, everything was kind of just in one place.
[340.34] Snake: And they were in these like your typical mechanics tool chest, you know,
[344.34] Snake: there's like four standing.
[347.34] Snake: Roller draw style things.
[351.34] Snake: All my Li-Pos were in there and nothing melted.
[354.34] Snake: So that's how hot that got.
[356.34] Snake: Wow.
[357.34] Snake: It was just like this half melted blob of steel on the ground when we went
[361.34] Snake: back into the house later on.
[363.34] Snake: Even actually it was during the fire.
[366.34] Snake: One of the fire brigade came out to me and he asked me what was in that room
[370.34] Snake: because he said that's much hotter in there than a typical house fire.
[374.34] NJ: That would have had something to do with it.
[377.34] Snake: Yeah.
[378.34] Snake: Well, apparently also my cameras.
[381.34] Snake: So like I've got a couple of new ones now, but these like the pro cameras,
[389.34] Snake: the bodies are made out of magnesium and apparently magnesium.
[394.34] Snake: But when it when it combusts, it burns at like three over 3000 degrees.
[399.34] Snake: So they would have made the fire worse.
[402.34] NJ: And I've got to ask, how's your relationship with the friend that gave you
[407.34] NJ: the TV?
[408.34] NJ: Did you get in contact with him at all afterwards?
[410.34] Snake: That's not his fault.
[411.34] Snake: It's funny.
[412.34] Snake: He actually so his job is he does TV install like AV installations.
[417.34] Snake: And he frequently has to dispose of the old TV when somebody upgrades.
[423.34] Snake: And that's what this TV was.
[424.34] Snake: He just said he's like, I've got this TV like it works perfectly fine.
[427.34] Snake: The customer just bought a newer, fancier one.
[430.34] Snake: And I was like, cool.
[431.34] Snake: I'll just use it as a TV monitor as a computer monitor.
[436.34] Snake: So that's why I had it.
[438.34] Snake: Because when I've told this story to people, they're all like, I've got a TV.
[442.34] Snake: It's like probably if you've got a TV from a brand that you've heard of,
[446.34] Snake: you're probably fine.
[447.34] Snake: But if you've got one of these like, you know, bang good special TVs,
[453.34] Snake: they're not fine.
[455.34] Andy: It's it's funny, isn't it?
[456.34] Andy: Because we all sit here in this hobby, absolutely worried about our lipos.
[461.34] Andy: And Tony keeps his in a box outside.
[465.34] Andy: Yeah, we forget that there are so many electronics in the house that are far more dangerous.
[471.34] Andy: I was actually I was actually sat here in this room once.
[475.34] Andy: And I could smell if I could smell fire.
[477.34] Andy: And I instantly thought lipos, you know, because I got I got some here.
[481.34] Jack: I was having a strike.
[484.34] Andy: But what it was is a USB cable that was plugged into the USB port
[489.34] Andy: on my computer had shorted and caught fire and it started burning the carpet.
[494.34] Andy: You know, so maybe lipos aren't the thing we should worry about.
[497.34] Jack: No, whatever.
[499.34] Jack: It's your arson gene because you're northern.
[504.34] Snake: Yeah, well, I mean, I think like because my brother's an electrician,
[509.34] Snake: he when I told him what happened, he's like, that seems really unlikely
[513.34] Snake: because there's so many safety switches and everything like this.
[516.34] Snake: But he's like, I guess if the internal, you know,
[520.34] Snake: AC converter in the TV just completely shut itself.
[524.34] Snake: And the TV was sitting on a plastic table.
[528.34] Snake: So it really wouldn't have taken a whole lot to get that to start burning
[532.34] Snake: like a couple of sparks probably.
[534.34] Snake: And then once that went up, because no one was home, I was out walking my dog at the time,
[538.34] Snake: walked back to the house like 10 minutes later and the whole thing was on fire.
[542.34] Tony: At least you're out then with your dog now.
[545.34] Snake: Yeah, well, yeah, my partner was at work.
[548.34] Snake: So that was a good phone call.
[550.34] Snake: I called her up.
[551.34] Snake: I'm like, you might want to come home.
[553.34] Snake: House is on fire.
[555.34] Snake: She probably won't be here by the time you get back.
[558.34] Snake: Oh, God.
[560.34] Tony: So the community helped out a lot, didn't they?
[563.34] Tony: I remember seeing posts.
[565.34] Tony: Unbelievable.
[566.34] Snake: Yeah.
[567.34] Snake: Yeah.
[568.34] Snake: So a couple of my local friends, the BMS web guys, put up a video
[575.34] Snake: and Steel put up a video and we'd started a GoFundMe.
[579.34] Snake: And yeah, got quite a lot out of that.
[585.34] Snake: Just a lot of local.
[587.34] Snake: Sorry.
[588.34] Jack: I missed that.
[589.34] Jack: I was in hospital, so I missed that.
[591.34] Jack: Yeah.
[592.34] Jack: But I have given you $20 towards.
[596.34] Snake: I did notice that.
[598.34] Snake: Yeah.
[599.34] Snake: I'm saving it up so that I can buy the metal gear.
[602.34] Snake: They're quite hard to get hold of in Australia now.
[605.34] Jack: No.
[606.34] Jack: I can.
[607.34] Jack: There is one here.
[608.34] Jack: I can send you if you want.
[610.34] Jack: No.
[611.34] Jack: But God bless Paul, man.
[614.34] Andy: We often get Paul and Thomas in the chat, actually.
[617.34] Andy: We do.
[618.34] Andy: Usually on a weekly basis.
[620.34] NJ: Yeah.
[621.34] NJ: I spoke to him a few hours ago.
[622.34] NJ: I think he's planning to pop in at some point.
[626.34] NJ: Awesome.
[627.34] Snake: Oh, really?
[628.34] Snake: Yeah.
[629.34] Snake: He's always up really early in the morning, actually.
[631.34] Jack: On Godly.
[632.34] Snake: Oh, he's online right now.
[635.66] Snake: Oh, there you go.
[639.74] Jack: Yeah.
[640.74] Jack: I should.
[641.74] Jack: I can send him a link.
[643.74] Jack: You're on.
[645.74] NJ: Yeah.
[646.74] NJ: So what was the first thing you got?
[648.74] NJ: Because obviously this must have forced a fair break on you in terms of, you know, flying
[653.74] NJ: and things of a far higher priority for you to get back in order.
[657.74] NJ: Well, what point did you actually get?
[660.74] NJ: Oh, it's gone.
[661.74] NJ: What were you going to say?
[663.74] Snake: As far as like putting a hold on everything else.
[666.74] Snake: I.
[667.74] Snake: So for the last like seven or eight years, I had been running my own
[673.74] Snake: photography business and quite, and maybe like a year and a bit ago, I started to feel
[678.74] Snake: like I wanted to do something else, but it was always going to be a slow process to wind
[684.74] Snake: that down and then figure out what else I was going to do with my career.
[687.74] Snake: So I had this kind of interim job, which is just.
[691.74] Snake: It was taking photos of cars, but it was basically just factory work.
[694.74] Snake: It was rubbish and I hated it.
[696.74] Snake: And I wanted to get out of doing that.
[698.74] Snake: And Trappie offered me a job working for Team Black Sheep.
[702.74] Snake: And I had literally started that three days before the fire happened.
[708.74] Snake: And a large portion of what I was doing for them revolved in one way or another around all of the equipment
[716.74] Snake: that I had, you know, like my ability to build and test equipment, my computer
[722.74] Snake: and everything so that I can like make videos or I can do Skype calls and communicate with people
[727.74] Snake: and all this sort of stuff.
[729.74] Snake: So that has probably been like it's been interesting looking back on looking back on it now, because
[737.74] Snake: on the one hand, it was really fortunate that I just started that job because they were really good
[744.74] Snake: with giving me time to like, you know, do what I needed to do, like basically go and find, you know,
[753.74] Snake: like the next day we had like the only possessions that I still had like the following day after the fire
[760.74] Snake: was my mobile phone and clothes that I was wearing when I was out walking my dog.
[767.74] Snake: That was literally it.
[768.74] Snake: So like I didn't have any toiletries.
[770.74] Snake: I didn't have any clothes.
[771.74] Snake: I didn't have any food and have anything like that.
[773.74] Snake: So even like the following week was literally just spending time going around going like buying some cheap clothes and
[782.74] Snake: you know, that seems like a fairly trivial thing.
[784.74] Snake: But if you had a full time job that you had to go to every single day, I wouldn't have been able to do that.
[789.74] Snake: So for the first couple of weeks, having the freedom to go and get that kind of stuff done was really helpful.
[796.74] Snake: But then after maybe a month or so, you know, the sort of the stress of like because a lot of the tasks that I was doing for
[807.74] Snake: them were completely new to me.
[809.74] Snake: You know, it was like a learning a lot of new processes and you know what it's typically like when you're starting a new job.
[815.74] Snake: So going through all of that as well as like dealing with I guess the fallout of everything just became increasingly stressful
[825.74] Snake: over the next like two months.
[826.74] Snake: So I remember having people say to me like a couple of weeks after the fire, they're like, well, you don't seem that bad.
[832.74] Snake: Like considering what happened.
[834.74] Snake: And I'm like, I think that like it was a really slow thing to sink in.
[839.74] Snake: Like I like borderline had a complete breakdown towards the end of December because I just like the built up stress of all the things
[848.74] Snake: that were going on with just like got ridiculous.
[852.74] Snake: And probably probably only like two to three weeks ago was when I started to feel like I was starting to get back on top of, you know,
[862.74] Snake: feeling like I was on top of things and was able to like manage stuff that I was trying to do effectively.
[869.74] Snake: And yeah, so I mean, I try I don't I don't like to complain too much because like, yeah,
[879.74] Snake: it was a thing to happen.
[880.74] Snake: But at the same time, the amount of support that I've gotten from lots of different places has been so overwhelming that like,
[887.74] Snake: I feel like a bit of a dick by just still like going, oh, you know, hey, like give me a break.
[892.74] Snake: Like I can bust all my stuff.
[894.74] Snake: But unfortunately, it does like it's you'd be amazed how like the all the little things that you take for granted that you would normally have that you've built up over,
[904.74] Snake: you know, 10 or 15 years or whatever.
[907.74] Snake: Yeah, just takes a while to sort all that stuff out.
[911.74] Snake: But still just thankful that we don't have to like, you know, nobody got hurt or anything like that.
[917.74] Tony: So yeah, that's the best bit if there is the best bit that it took you a lifetime to build that.
[924.74] Jack: Do you know what I mean?
[925.74] Snake: Like build that life and then, you know, you burn it down in record time by 10 minutes flat everything in that entire room.
[935.74] NJ: Talk us through the gear you're currently flying now because you've you've been using KISS for quite a long time, haven't you?
[941.74] NJ: And you've you've just you know, it's all the 32 bit stuff.
[944.74] Snake: Yeah. So I or the start of that happening for me was a couple of months after I started flying, I was at the time flying like the Simon K.
[958.74] Snake: ESEs like the AFRA ESEs or whatever it was, they were like the fastest responding and all this sort of stuff at the time.
[966.74] Snake: And then and then one of my mates mentioned the KISS ESEs that he'd heard about.
[972.74] Snake: This was like back when the 18 amps were where the thing they were like unbelievably hard to get hold of in Australia.
[982.74] Snake: Like I once ordered a set from the U.S. and I paid ninety dollars U.S. postage, just postage.
[991.74] Snake: Like for 12 ESEs that are like the size of my fingernail, it's just stupid.
[997.74] Jack: But they were they were one shot compatible, though.
[1000.74] Snake: One shot one twenty five. Yeah.
[1002.74] Snake: But the problem was that particularly at that point in time, like this is before BL Heli or anything like that.
[1009.74] Snake: The performance difference between a KISS and a Simon K. ESE was just like it was so massive that by the time I went when I first flew a quad with KISS ESEs, I was just like, I'm either going to fly that or I'm not going to fly because the difference is just too big.
[1026.74] Snake: Like you can't it's like being blindfolded basically when you're when you're trying to go back.
[1033.74] Snake: Oh, this guy's here.
[1034.74] Paul: Hey, guys, my camera's not working for some reason.
[1038.74] Paul: I'm not sure what the deal is.
[1039.74] Paul: But why?
[1040.74] Paul: Too cool.
[1041.74] Paul: The drawing of you is pretty attractive.
[1043.74] Snake: So thanks very much.
[1046.74] Snake: Enjoy the podcast, by the way.
[1048.74] Paul: It was really cool.
[1049.74] Paul: Listen to you guys during breakfast.
[1051.74] Paul: Flat Earth theory and all that sort of stuff.
[1054.74] Tony: Sorry.
[1055.74] Paul: Hey, Thomas.
[1056.74] Paul: I can hear Thomas.
[1057.74] NJ: Hello.
[1058.74] NJ: How are you doing, man?
[1059.74] NJ: I'm good.
[1060.74] NJ: How are you?
[1061.74] NJ: Not good, man.
[1062.74] NJ: Is there anything you haven't won?
[1063.74] Paul: Yes.
[1064.74] Paul: I'm not sure if you're welcome in the U.S. anymore, are you?
[1079.74] Andy: I watched the live stream.
[1082.74] Andy: I thought the show was great as well, like how it was all sort of compiled together.
[1087.74] Andy: To watch, it was really entertaining, I thought.
[1090.74] Paul: Okay, okay.
[1091.74] Paul: It was...
[1092.74] Paul: I've still got to edit the video that we've got to produce.
[1094.74] Paul: They gave me permission to use some of their footage.
[1096.74] Paul: So I should be able to put together a reasonable video.
[1097.74] Paul: It's just a ton of footage to go through.
[1099.74] Paul: So hopefully I can get that done this week.
[1102.74] Paul: So I want to get that off my computer.
[1108.74] Tony: That's going to be good to watch.
[1110.74] Jack: Snake's bored of us now.
[1111.74] Jack: He's like...
[1112.74] Jack: No, no, no.
[1113.74] Jack: I don't send batteries.
[1115.74] Snake: I have many things to get done today.
[1117.74] Snake: So if I start doing stuff in the background and just ignore me.
[1121.74] Snake: How do you get...
[1123.74] Snake: Shall I continue on with the story about this stuff?
[1126.74] Jack: Yes.
[1127.74] Snake: Yeah.
[1128.74] Snake: So yeah, I started...
[1131.74] Snake: I got a set of Kiss 18s, put them on my quad.
[1134.74] Snake: This is...
[1135.74] Snake: What did I build?
[1136.74] Snake: I built like an exact replica of the quad that Sharpoo was flying.
[1140.74] Snake: So QAV250, Kiss 18s, Lumineer 2206...
[1145.74] Snake: No, 2208, 2000 kV motors.
[1148.74] Snake: Put his tune in it and went and flew it.
[1151.74] Snake: And this was like two months into flying.
[1154.74] Snake: And it was like...
[1156.74] Snake: I still reckon it was one of the better quads that I've ever flown.
[1159.74] Snake: Like it just flew amazing, except on the second battery,
[1162.74] Snake: all of the ESCs burst into flames.
[1165.74] Snake: And so I went home and I was like really disillusioned
[1168.74] Snake: and started doing a whole lot of research.
[1170.74] Snake: And the only like consistent answer I could find
[1174.74] Snake: about why they...
[1176.74] Snake: Why I caught on fire was most people were just like,
[1180.74] Snake: that's just what they do when they're on 4S.
[1183.74] Snake: And the only solution to the problem was to put them on 3S.
[1186.74] Snake: So I had this...
[1188.74] Snake: I had this choice of either switching to 4S and flying crap ESCs
[1194.74] Snake: or sticking with 3S and flying better ESCs.
[1197.74] Snake: And so I decided to stick with 3S.
[1199.74] Snake: And looking back on it now,
[1202.74] Snake: I think that's one of the best decisions that I've made
[1205.74] Snake: because I spent like probably six months longer
[1208.74] Snake: than most other people flying 3S.
[1211.74] Snake: Everyone else is already on 4S.
[1213.74] Snake: And got to the point where I was literally like...
[1215.74] Snake: I'd almost find entire pack with the stick just jammed
[1218.74] Snake: on the throttle stop, like all the way forward.
[1221.74] Snake: Because you were just like so used to the way that the quad flew
[1224.74] Snake: and really literally getting to the point
[1227.74] Snake: of flying the equipment to its limit.
[1230.74] Snake: And then the KISS 30s came out.
[1233.74] Snake: So I switched to them and I was able to go to 4S.
[1236.74] Snake: And every now and then,
[1239.74] Snake: gone back to flying like the Alwahali stuff.
[1243.74] Snake: And there's been a couple of ESCs along the way
[1246.74] Snake: that I thought were like just as good.
[1248.74] Snake: But then KISS would come out with something new
[1251.74] Snake: like when they came out with the 24s.
[1254.74] Snake: And I've kind of just always stuck with their stuff
[1257.74] Snake: because I found that maybe because I'm more used to it
[1261.74] Snake: or whatever that it's just been easier
[1264.74] Snake: and more reliable for me to set up.
[1266.74] Snake: So yeah, I've pretty much flown their stuff since day one
[1271.74] Snake: since like...
[1273.74] Snake: Well, the first set of ESCs I got for them were the 12 amps,
[1276.74] Snake: which I think were the first ones they made.
[1278.74] Snake: And then right up to recently all of the new equipment.
[1282.74] Snake: And actually I'm doing a video.
[1285.74] Snake: I've got a quad right here, which has got,
[1287.74] Snake: I guess pretty much the latest Alwahali stuff on it.
[1293.43] Snake: Alwahali 32, DSHOT 1200.
[1296.43] Snake: Because when I did that video recently,
[1298.43] Snake: comparing DSHOT 600 to 2400,
[1301.43] Snake: I had a lot of people asking me if there was a difference
[1303.43] Snake: compared to 1200.
[1304.43] Snake: I was like, you can't run 1200.
[1306.43] Snake: Well, there was...
[1308.43] Snake: Yeah, like the KISS 24s you can only run DSHOT 600,
[1311.43] Snake: then the 32s you can run 2400.
[1314.43] Snake: So I wanted to see,
[1316.43] Snake: just to try and get a benchmark of like,
[1319.43] Snake: where the latest Alwahali stuff was in comparison.
[1322.43] NJ: Yeah, I mean, I've really found
[1325.43] NJ: a pretty significant difference.
[1327.43] NJ: I'm now my main freestyle quad.
[1329.43] NJ: I'm on DSHOT 1200
[1331.43] NJ: and I've really noticed the difference running.
[1333.43] NJ: I mean, I think you can only take advantage of that
[1335.43] NJ: if you're running at least 16K on the board.
[1340.43] NJ: 16, 32K ideally.
[1342.43] NJ: But on this setup, I'm running 16K on the board,
[1346.43] NJ: 16K, 8K, and then DSHOT 1200.
[1350.43] NJ: And I mean, as a reviewer, I've tried out
[1354.43] NJ: and I've had just about every different setup.
[1356.43] NJ: And I was KISS for a good year,
[1359.43] NJ: race flight for a while.
[1361.43] NJ: I've been through a lot of the different setups,
[1363.43] NJ: so I'm quite familiar with all the different fields.
[1365.43] NJ: And I think now this is the first time
[1368.43] NJ: since going to DSHOT 1200 that I feel it,
[1372.43] NJ: starting to feel a little bit more like KISS did for me
[1375.43] NJ: because obviously the main thing with KISS
[1378.43] NJ: was just the incredible prop wash handling.
[1380.43] NJ: This is the first time I felt like it's tight like that again
[1384.43] NJ: when you put it in situations
[1386.43] NJ: where you're dumping it into quite a lot of prop wash.
[1389.43] NJ: So I personally definitely noticed
[1392.43] NJ: the difference going from 600 to 1200.
[1394.43] NJ: So yeah, I'm certainly interested in trying the 2400 as well.
[1400.43] NJ: Yeah.
[1402.43] Snake: It's interesting you say about what speed you run the...
[1405.43] Snake: What fire controller is that on?
[1407.43] Snake: Is that on an F4 or 7?
[1409.43] NJ: It's an F4, the F405.
[1411.43] NJ: I have ordered an F7 to...
[1414.43] NJ: Because I always like to have the accelerometer
[1417.43] NJ: running as a bail switch.
[1418.43] NJ: If ever I lost the camera,
[1420.43] NJ: I'd always hit level mode and punch the throttle
[1423.43] NJ: so I could just lift the goggles and see where it is.
[1425.43] NJ: But you can't run the current F4s unless you overclock them.
[1430.43] NJ: If you overclock them, then you can run at 32K
[1434.43] NJ: and run the accelerometer.
[1437.43] NJ: In fact, I'm not sure if you can still do that.
[1439.43] NJ: But yeah, the F7s give you the headroom to then...
[1442.43] Andy: I think they actually advise you to turn the accelerometer off
[1446.43] Andy: just because you have to overclock the F4s in it.
[1449.43] NJ: Just to get 32K.
[1452.43] NJ: Yeah, so that's what I want.
[1454.43] NJ: Ideally, I want the F7 situation
[1456.43] NJ: where I can have the accelerometer run and run 3216.
[1461.43] NJ: That's probably the idea.
[1463.43] Snake: I know that the KISS V1 fire controller ran at 1KHz.
[1468.43] Snake: I'm actually not sure what the new one runs at.
[1470.43] Snake: But I'm interested to see.
[1472.43] Snake: Because it's funny you say,
[1473.43] Snake: like, oh, you have to run a beta flight board on 32KHz
[1478.43] Snake: for it to make a difference.
[1481.43] NJ: Well, 16 is where I found the difference.
[1484.43] NJ: But yeah, 16 and a half.
[1486.43] Snake: But the KISS definitely doesn't run at 16.
[1489.43] NJ: No, you're absolutely right.
[1490.43] NJ: It was 1,000.
[1491.43] Snake: It's either one or even the new one, I think,
[1494.43] Snake: maybe runs at four, maybe.
[1497.43] Snake: But yeah, the difference between setting that,
[1501.43] Snake: like, even the same hardware, you know, in that video that I did,
[1505.43] Snake: both quads had the new hardware on it.
[1507.43] Snake: I just changed the protocol.
[1509.43] Snake: And that was the only thing I changed.
[1512.43] Snake: What does the fire controller run?
[1514.43] Andy: I think it's like what Steel was saying about the KISS V2
[1518.43] Andy: in that it's basically at the bottom of what it can achieve.
[1521.43] Andy: It's basically taken what the V1 did.
[1524.43] Andy: And they've dumped that onto the V2.
[1527.43] Andy: And then it's not really taken advantage of the fact
[1530.43] Andy: that it's an F7.
[1531.43] Andy: And then they're going to work on that.
[1533.43] Snake: Yeah.
[1534.43] Snake: So I think that the current firmware still runs at 1KHz.
[1539.43] Tony: So what's my CPU load on my Betaflight setup running 32, 16 is about 35.
[1547.43] Tony: What percent should you go up to before you start pooing yourself
[1551.43] Tony: or it's not on the flight controller starts?
[1554.43] NJ: For Betaflight on the bench without you armed and flying,
[1558.43] NJ: I wouldn't want to see much over 35, maybe 40%.
[1562.43] NJ: If you're up in the 50s, I think that's probably not good.
[1567.43] NJ: So you'd want to keep it under there.
[1569.43] NJ: But it's interesting, the KISS thing running a lot lower,
[1572.43] NJ: but this is their secret source.
[1574.43] NJ: They're doing something very clever,
[1576.43] NJ: but something we'll obviously not know
[1578.43] NJ: because it's proprietary as it is kept under avail.
[1584.43] NJ: They're doing something clever.
[1586.43] NJ: Absolutely no doubt about that.
[1588.43] NJ: They do fly wonderfully.
[1590.43] Snake: Yeah.
[1591.43] Snake: So I mean, without giving too much away, basically,
[1595.43] Snake: I did a comparison between...
[1598.43] Snake: I got WebFVV to help with the video
[1601.43] Snake: because he's a lot more experienced with tuning a Betaflight quad.
[1604.43] Snake: I was like, if I get a Betaflight quad and try and tune it
[1607.43] Snake: and then compare it to KISS, it's not really a fair comparison
[1610.43] Snake: because I'm not that good at tuning Betaflight,
[1613.43] Snake: whereas he's been flying Betaflight for like the last six months.
[1617.43] Snake: So we tuned it together and then put his rates in it
[1620.43] Snake: and he flew one, a quad with KISS V2,
[1624.43] Snake: and then this one back to back
[1627.43] Snake: and basically still had the same conclusion
[1630.43] Snake: that we've had all along with KISS,
[1633.43] Snake: which is that Betaflight is like...
[1636.43] Snake: I would say it's as good in terms of smoothness
[1638.43] Snake: and prop wash and all that kind of thing,
[1641.43] Snake: but it still just doesn't feel the same.
[1644.43] Snake: There's just a natural feeling to KISS that nothing else has.
[1649.43] NJ: Do you know what? This is something I've got.
[1651.43] NJ: I've got to stop you and focus exactly what you said
[1653.43] NJ: because this is the one problem that I have
[1656.43] NJ: that I have been trying to work back to.
[1658.43] NJ: There is an organic flight feel about the way KISS flies
[1662.43] NJ: and the magic in the rates
[1664.43] NJ: and there's something around center stick
[1667.43] NJ: that just left you feeling super connected as a pilot.
[1671.43] NJ: That is the one thing I find very hard to re-emulate
[1674.43] NJ: and I'm trying, every time I'm messing my rates,
[1677.43] NJ: I'm trying to get it to have that.
[1680.43] NJ: There's just some magic in the connection there.
[1682.43] NJ: If that's what you're talking about, I totally get that.
[1685.43] Snake: That's exactly what I'm talking about.
[1687.43] Snake: I could probably spend more time on the Betaflight quad
[1692.43] Snake: to work on it and try and get it closer,
[1695.43] Snake: but realistically, for starters,
[1698.43] Snake: I have no motivation to do that
[1700.43] Snake: because I'm perfectly happy with how my KISS quads fly.
[1707.43] Snake: It's purely just out of interest to see
[1709.43] Snake: whether it is possible to make it feel the same.
[1711.43] Snake: I personally don't think that it is.
[1713.43] Snake: I think you can get it very, very close,
[1715.43] Snake: but if you're really, really used to the way a KISS quad flies
[1720.43] Snake: and you go to Betaflight,
[1722.43] Snake: it's going to be a compromise in terms of how the quad feels.
[1725.43] Snake: I think that you gain...
[1729.43] Snake: The big advantage of Betaflight, I've noticed,
[1733.43] Snake: is that it's way, way more forgiving
[1736.43] Snake: on the way the quad is set up.
[1740.43] Snake: You can see on my videos,
[1742.43] Snake: I'll post a video where I've got my KISS tune
[1746.43] Snake: linked in the description or whatever,
[1748.43] Snake: and someone will take the tune and put it on their quad
[1751.43] Snake: and it just doesn't work.
[1753.43] Snake: The thing with KISS is it's really unforgiving.
[1756.43] Snake: If there's anything wrong with your quad,
[1758.43] Snake: you'll notice it more than you will
[1760.43] Snake: with other flight control systems.
[1762.43] Snake: But if the quad is built perfect...
[1765.43] Snake: I can build five quads in a row
[1767.43] Snake: because I'm so used to exactly how I put them all together.
[1771.43] Snake: There is absolutely no difference in how they fly at all.
[1776.43] Snake: Unless there is something wrong
[1778.43] Snake: with a piece of equipment on one of the quads,
[1780.43] Snake: like it's got a bent motor or something like that.
[1784.43] Snake: But it can be even something as simple
[1786.43] Snake: as the way you mount your VTX if it's not as secure
[1790.43] Snake: and it's got the tiniest...
[1792.43] Snake: The VTX, which is not even touching the flight controller,
[1794.43] Snake: has got a slight vibration.
[1796.43] Snake: That will affect how the quad will fly and how it will feel.
[1802.43] Snake: I think if you don't have access to fresh equipment
[1806.43] Snake: on a regular basis and stuff like that,
[1808.43] Snake: you could end up being better off.
[1810.43] Snake: Were you probably going to have a more consistent experience
[1813.43] Snake: with Betaflight?
[1814.43] NJ: I think it's that tuning envelope of Betaflight
[1816.43] NJ: is pretty large.
[1819.43] NJ: Whereas if you want to push to the absolute limits
[1822.43] NJ: with your kiss stuff, then, as you say,
[1824.43] NJ: any little loose thing could make the difference
[1826.43] NJ: between perfect and slightly out.
[1828.43] Jack: Yeah, my kiss setup doesn't like flying near Tony
[1832.43] Jack: for some reason.
[1834.43] Jack: It finds it really, really offensive.
[1836.43] Snake: Too many oscillations.
[1838.43] Jack: Yeah, I think it doesn't agree with the earth being flat.
[1843.8] NJ: Yeah, that's a super interesting thing.
[1846.8] NJ: Literally, my mission is trying to get that kiss feel onto...
[1850.8] NJ: There's so many other things I absolutely love
[1852.8] NJ: about the Betaflight setup and what I have,
[1854.8] NJ: but it's just that slight organic feel.
[1856.8] NJ: I think for me, it feels like it's just something
[1859.8] NJ: around center stick, something in the stick acceleration
[1862.8] NJ: that just isn't quite as connected,
[1865.8] NJ: it's not quite as active on Betaflight yet.
[1867.8] NJ: I think perhaps it's also something to do with making
[1870.8] NJ: the Super 8 curve.
[1872.8] NJ: It needs to be a little bit more linear.
[1875.8] NJ: Yeah.
[1876.8] NJ: In order to find that.
[1877.8] NJ: I tell you something else that might support that
[1879.8] NJ: was interesting.
[1880.8] NJ: He was looking at Steels.
[1881.8] NJ: Did you see Steels' video on Velocidrone
[1884.8] NJ: where he talked about that as a simulator
[1886.8] NJ: and he had to tweak the Betaflight rates
[1889.8] NJ: to get the simulator to feel like his kiss setup.
[1893.8] NJ: One thing I noticed was that his RC rate,
[1896.8] NJ: which will flatten out that curve,
[1899.8] NJ: was up at 2, which is quite a long way up
[1902.8] NJ: compared to where most people have it.
[1903.8] NJ: That does, in fact, if you keep your endpoints the same
[1906.8] NJ: from your Super 8, it does start to flatten that out
[1908.8] NJ: a little bit.
[1909.8] NJ: I think possibly that's something to do
[1912.8] NJ: with the direction you need to go to get that feel.
[1915.8] NJ: Yeah.
[1916.8] Snake: The rates thing is interesting
[1918.8] Snake: because I technically haven't changed my rates
[1922.8] Snake: at all for about 18 months.
[1924.8] Snake: About six months ago, I changed the way
[1927.8] Snake: that I achieved those rates,
[1929.8] Snake: which is to say with Kiss,
[1932.8] Snake: you know how you've got the three values
[1935.8] Snake: and the first two affect the overall degrees per second.
[1943.8] Snake: You can increase one or the other and they both go up.
[1946.8] Snake: But if you increase the middle one,
[1947.8] Snake: which I think is just called rate,
[1951.8] Snake: that increases degrees per second.
[1955.8] Snake: I think it introduces this sort of progressive TPA sort of thing
[1960.8] Snake: and effectively increases expo as well,
[1963.8] Snake: whereas if you just increase RC rate,
[1966.8] Snake: that's just a completely flat increase in stick speed.
[1971.8] Snake: You can basically end up with a curve that looks the same
[1975.8] Snake: and degrees per second, that is exactly the same value,
[1979.8] Snake: but do it two different ways.
[1981.8] Snake: I used to have my rate really high and my RC rate quite low
[1987.8] Snake: and now I've switched it, so my RC rate is like 1.7,
[1992.8] Snake: but then my rate is like 0.6 or something.
[1995.8] NJ: Yeah, that's exactly what I've done recently.
[1998.8] Snake: It feels much better because it's basically just reducing expo
[2002.8] Snake: is effectively what it's doing,
[2004.8] Snake: but I think it's just making it more consistent
[2006.8] Snake: across the whole stick value.
[2010.8] Snake: And I found that, yeah, it's just made it easier.
[2013.8] Snake: It's made it easier to do different speeds of tricks.
[2018.8] Snake: So I noticed when people,
[2021.8] Snake: the less experienced people generally tend to have
[2025.8] Snake: a similar total degrees per second to the more experienced guys,
[2032.8] Snake: but with a lot more expo.
[2034.8] Snake: And that directly affects how they fight.
[2037.8] Snake: You can see in someone's flying style
[2039.8] Snake: because they'll be flying around smoothly,
[2042.8] Snake: like just cruising around,
[2044.8] Snake: or they'll be doing max speed flips and rolls, and that's it.
[2047.8] Snake: There'll be very little progressive slow rolls
[2051.8] Snake: and slow flips and stuff
[2053.8] Snake: because the way that their sticks are set up
[2055.8] Snake: is really hard to keep it...
[2058.8] Snake: There's this really obvious fall off
[2060.8] Snake: when you go to half stick deflection,
[2062.8] Snake: it just instantly starts flipping.
[2065.8] Snake: So...
[2067.8] Snake: And I... Go on.
[2070.8] Tony: I was just asking,
[2071.8] Tony: has anyone put the cowman filters on their beater flight yet?
[2075.8] NJ: I've not experimented with it yet
[2077.8] NJ: just because I'm really liking the way the quad's feeling
[2080.8] NJ: and I don't want to mess with it.
[2083.8] NJ: But I think it needs a little more maturing anyway.
[2086.8] NJ: There's a lot of testing
[2088.8] NJ: and it sounds like there's a lot of different strands of that
[2091.8] NJ: that are being experimented with.
[2092.8] NJ: So I'm personally going to wait for it to mature a bit.
[2095.8] Paul: We're about to try it.
[2097.8] Paul: So it's on the to-do list
[2099.8] Paul: since we've had so many of the races get out there
[2102.8] Paul: and say it's fantastic.
[2103.8] Paul: So we've had enough people to sort of say it's really good.
[2106.8] Paul: So we've got to test it and confirm for ourselves
[2109.8] Paul: if it does make a difference in how good it is.
[2111.8] Paul: But we haven't done that yet.
[2112.8] Paul: The plan is,
[2113.8] Paul: I tried to do it on one of the boards I've got at the moment
[2115.8] Paul: and that was a miserable fail.
[2117.8] Paul: It just didn't work.
[2118.8] Paul: So as soon as I flashed it,
[2119.8] Paul: it wasn't communicated with beater flight again.
[2121.8] Paul: So I've got to see what the stood deal is with that.
[2123.8] Paul: I have to use another flight controller and see how we go.
[2126.8] Andy: I had the exact same thing.
[2128.8] Andy: And just as we were talking earlier,
[2130.8] Andy: things like turning the accelerock,
[2132.8] Andy: basically what happens is the processing,
[2135.8] Andy: the usage goes to a hundred
[2138.8] Andy: and it won't open the serial port again
[2140.8] Andy: and you won't be able to connect to it.
[2142.8] Andy: And the way that you fix it really is just to re-flash it
[2145.8] Andy: and clear everything off.
[2148.8] Andy: But yeah, I agree with MJ.
[2150.8] Andy: It's not quite there yet.
[2151.8] Andy: I've tried it.
[2152.8] Andy: I got it to work on one board.
[2154.8] Andy: But like Josh was saying in his video,
[2156.8] Andy: it's a really early stage.
[2158.8] Andy: He even put his copter,
[2160.8] Andy: was it upside down in case it went full throttle?
[2163.8] Andy: I don't think,
[2164.8] Andy: until we're not having to take those precautions,
[2167.8] Andy: it's probably best not to use it.
[2169.8] Andy: One thing I will say though,
[2170.8] Andy: is I was chatting to a developer who says
[2173.8] Andy: that it will actually benefit on the lower kilohertz,
[2179.8] Andy: like so 8K and 16.
[2182.8] Andy: You can still put it in there
[2184.8] Andy: and it should not have the same effect,
[2186.8] Andy: but it will have some effect.
[2189.8] Tony: I put it on my board on Tuesday
[2191.8] Tony: and flew it and it felt amazing.
[2194.8] Tony: And you spoke of God.
[2195.8] Tony: Straight out.
[2196.8] Tony: That was a week before that.
[2198.8] Andy: Was that running at 32 as well, Tony?
[2200.8] Tony: Yeah, 32, 16.
[2202.8] Tony: And it was on a Revolt board.
[2206.8] Tony: Okay.
[2207.8] Tony: That's the other option we've got.
[2208.8] Paul: This is a Revolt board.
[2209.8] Paul: We've got a few of those lying around here.
[2211.8] Paul: So we might try it on that.
[2212.8] Paul: The Impulse RC board is an F3.
[2215.8] Paul: So that's a bit of a bummer with that.
[2217.8] Paul: So that was a miserable fail.
[2219.8] Paul: So we'll see exactly what happens with,
[2221.8] Paul: I suppose we try Revolt and see how it goes.
[2223.8] Paul: I'm really interested to see,
[2224.8] Paul: because there's anyone that's,
[2226.8] Paul: I mean, you'd experienced this too, NJ.
[2228.8] Paul: I mean, you've got a reasonable following.
[2229.8] Paul: You know what I mean?
[2230.8] Paul: You tend to get a lot of feedback from a lot of people.
[2232.8] Paul: This one, the consensus has been like what Tony said,
[2235.8] Paul: but it definitely felt better.
[2236.8] Paul: You know what I mean?
[2239.8] Paul: I want to get out and try it
[2240.8] Paul: and actually try it on a track
[2241.8] Paul: and actually test times and say,
[2243.8] Paul: is it because some things I know feel better,
[2246.8] Paul: but don't necessarily translate to improved times on a track?
[2251.8] Paul: Does that kind of make sense?
[2252.8] Paul: Yeah, absolutely.
[2253.8] Paul: So I'd like to try it out
[2255.8] Paul: and see exactly how it goes
[2258.8] Paul: and whether it is actually better or not,
[2259.8] Paul: and then decide what we do about flight controls and all that.
[2261.8] Paul: But yeah, you're right.
[2262.8] Paul: The fact that it's experimental at the moment,
[2263.8] Paul: it's real pain in the butt,
[2264.8] Paul: because I can't get bloody going.
[2266.8] Jack: I wonder if Paul's going to release another tutorial, man.
[2271.69] Jack: I haven't seen one since the D4R2.
[2275.69] Paul: Damn, it's been a while since I've done tutorials, man.
[2277.69] Paul: They're just so much work.
[2278.69] Paul: And at the moment,
[2280.69] Paul: I feel like I'm Thomas's full-time employee.
[2282.69] Paul: You know what I mean?
[2283.69] Paul: Except he doesn't pay me.
[2285.69] Paul: I spend money on him,
[2286.69] Paul: so I'm not sure exactly how that works.
[2289.69] Paul: He's got it in the bike, didn't he?
[2291.69] Snake: That's a pretty raw deal.
[2293.69] Snake: Yeah, tell me about it.
[2295.69] Jack: Do you reckon Kiss managed to keep
[2299.69] Jack: some of the secret sauce from the original multi-wee days?
[2303.69] Jack: Do you think that's what happened?
[2305.69] Jack: Because I remember flying the original multi-wees
[2311.69] Jack: and they felt really nice.
[2313.69] Jack: Do you know what I mean?
[2315.69] Jack: You had all those different PID controllers
[2319.69] Jack: and stuff that you could select in the early beat of flight days
[2323.69] Jack: and I think something got lost in translation.
[2327.69] Snake: I'm not too sure.
[2331.69] Snake: I suspect that part of what makes Kiss the way it is
[2335.69] Snake: is the fact that they built it.
[2338.69] Snake: I think that day-to-flight is just...
[2344.69] Snake: The code is just too heavy
[2346.69] Snake: and it's too burdened with people just iterating on it
[2352.69] Snake: constantly and not...
[2354.69] Snake: I don't know.
[2355.69] Snake: I feel like maybe the flight controls are trying to do
[2357.69] Snake: too many things that they don't need to be doing,
[2359.69] Snake: whereas Kiss, because they can control the hardware as well.
[2365.69] Snake: I don't know.
[2366.69] Snake: I'm the worst person to speculate.
[2369.69] NJ: Apple versus PC kind of thing, isn't it?
[2371.69] Snake: That's exactly what it is, yeah.
[2373.69] NJ: Known hardware.
[2375.69] Snake: You can hate on Apple as much as you like,
[2378.69] Snake: but if you use their products for their intended purpose,
[2383.69] Snake: they work better.
[2385.69] Snake: Performance versus direct...
[2387.69] Snake: I'm the biggest PC person in the world,
[2389.69] Snake: but when you use an Apple computer,
[2394.69] Snake: that's exactly how it's designed to be used.
[2397.69] Snake: It just destroys...
[2398.69] Snake: If it's equal hardware,
[2400.69] Snake: it'll destroy a PC in terms of performance.
[2403.69] Jack: Yeah, until they start...
[2404.69] Jack: The thing is, I will admit, I loved Apple
[2409.69] Jack: and now they are just being complete dicks.
[2413.69] Jack: No mags.
[2414.69] Snake: But they're always being complete dicks.
[2416.69] Jack: Oh, man.
[2417.69] Paul: They've gone to a whole new level, haven't they?
[2420.69] Jack: Yeah, they're like the Hitler of the PC world now.
[2424.69] Jack: They really are.
[2425.69] Jack: Honestly, come spend money and be tormented.
[2430.69] Jack: Do you know what I mean?
[2431.69] Jack: I might as well pay Tony to attach jump leads to my nipples.
[2435.69] Jack: I'd gladly do that without payment.
[2438.69] Jack: What do you mean by ram soldered to my board?
[2441.69] Jack: Oh, man.
[2442.69] Andy: Too much information.
[2444.69] Andy: I think the thing with Beat of Flight though
[2447.69] Andy: is that there is just so much resource out there,
[2451.69] Andy: as in tutorials.
[2453.69] Andy: When I first started with Kiss, there was one tutorial
[2456.69] Andy: and that was Chad's video on how to flash it and everything.
[2461.69] Andy: Whereas Beat of Flight, you've got Josh
[2464.69] Andy: that dedicates a lot of his time to all this stuff.
[2467.69] Andy: I'm sure we'll learn on that.
[2469.69] Andy: So I think maybe perhaps that's what Kiss and Race Flight is missing.
[2476.69] Tony: I think it's a combination though.
[2478.69] Tony: It's like the Kiss and the Kiss ESCs.
[2481.69] Tony: You run Beat of Flight, you can run any million different flight controllers,
[2485.69] Tony: a million different ESCs.
[2487.69] Tony: But when you run Kiss on a rubbish ESC, it doesn't feel like Kiss on Kiss.
[2493.69] NJ: They've all got their strengths and weaknesses.
[2496.69] NJ: By the same token, you've got to applaud Race Flight for the wizard,
[2502.69] NJ: which honestly anyone can get going in five minutes.
[2506.69] NJ: As I've said before, it's not actually a new concept, open pilot.
[2510.69] NJ: For any of you who were around long enough to remember it back in the day,
[2513.69] NJ: that was exactly how you'd set up the old open pilot stuff.
[2516.69] NJ: Unfortunately, once it was set up, it pretty much did nothing
[2520.69] NJ: in terms of what a flight controller should do.
[2523.69] NJ: The wizard was good.
[2525.69] Jack: Tony had a CC3D, believe it or not.
[2528.69] Jack: He does start it on that.
[2530.69] NJ: I've still got my original one, my proper crowdfunded original.
[2534.69] NJ: I think it might have been a hand played one.
[2536.69] Jack: Hey, Tony, so why didn't that?
[2538.69] Jack: The ESCs declared that they were Kissed at 32A and that they're armed
[2543.69] Jack: and D-Shot detected.
[2546.69] Jack: You traitor.
[2548.69] UNKNOWN: What?
[2550.69] Jack: Beat of Flight quad then.
[2552.69] Snake: I do. I do have a Beat of Flight quad.
[2554.69] Snake: I've got to rebind it back to my Tyrannus actually.
[2557.69] Jack: Yes, the new...
[2559.69] Jack: Hopefully this shouldn't set a light.
[2561.69] Jack: Hang on. Ready?
[2563.69] Jack: Really weird.
[2565.69] Jack: Imagine if it does.
[2572.49] Tony: How weird is that?
[2574.49] Tony: That's your motive speaking, yeah?
[2576.49] Tony: That is, yeah.
[2578.49] Jack: For real.
[2580.49] Jack: Tony's like, kill it with fire.
[2582.49] Jack: Isn't it? That's weird.
[2584.49] Jack: Speaking of kill it with fire,
[2586.49] Jack: how's ethics going, man?
[2589.49] Jack: Are you working for those guys now?
[2591.49] Tony: Yeah, a couple of people in the chat wanted to know that as well.
[2596.86] Tony: I think...
[2598.86] Tony: He's frozen.
[2604.06] Jack: Snake!
[2606.06] Jack: Snake!
[2608.06] Snake: Yeah, my internet's dropping out.
[2610.06] Snake: Wait, is it okay now?
[2612.06] Jack: Yeah.
[2614.06] Jack: Is he still working for ethics?
[2616.06] Jack: Or have they called you Judas because you are now working for Team Over?
[2620.06] Jack: Yeah.
[2622.06] Paul: Nope.
[2627.01] Paul: Well, you can't argue with that, can you?
[2629.01] Paul: No.
[2631.01] Paul: I think he's just pulled the plug on his...
[2633.01] Paul: He heard the question.
[2635.01] Andy: I got it wrong to me.
[2637.01] NJ: He's got it with a doozy.
[2639.01] NJ: Mr. Steve, no, I love you really.
[2642.01] NJ: Actually, Paul, while you're here and while Snake's talking out his internet,
[2647.01] NJ: one thing I was going to ask both of you guys while you're here,
[2651.01] NJ: what are your favourite batteries at the minute,
[2653.01] NJ: especially as we're about to see Joshua do a whole...
[2655.01] NJ: I know he's got this fancy battery testing rig that he's going to be...
[2659.01] NJ: He's going to be testing loads of batteries.
[2661.01] NJ: Should I hand him a drone, lad?
[2663.01] NJ: No.
[2665.01] NJ: What would you back right now?
[2667.01] NJ: What are the ones that have been the most reliable for you,
[2670.01] NJ: current draining nightmares?
[2673.01] Paul: We were using dot-com batteries for quite some time,
[2676.01] Paul: and they were really good packs.
[2678.01] Paul: Really happy with them.
[2680.01] Paul: One, what was it?
[2682.01] Paul: The Australian Nationals, the Australian Open.
[2685.01] Paul: Also one in the...
[2690.01] Paul: Just say everything.
[2692.01] Paul: Let's be fair, though.
[2694.01] Andy: Wasn't that down to the battery there, really?
[2697.01] Paul: What I'm trying to point out,
[2699.01] Paul: they were a really good performing battery,
[2701.01] Paul: but we can't actually get those anymore, which really sucks
[2703.01] Paul: because the Australian distributor is gone.
[2705.01] Paul: Hence, I suppose the point I wanted to make is
[2709.01] Paul: the battery that we used that was very good.
[2711.01] Paul: We were really happy with them.
[2713.01] Paul: Previous to that, we were using the...
[2716.01] Jack: Why don't you distribute it yourself?
[2718.01] Paul: Well, people sort of suggested that,
[2720.01] Paul: but it's just so much work.
[2722.01] Paul: I'm not really geared up to actually do that.
[2724.01] Paul: I think if I was geared up to sell stuff and distribute and all that,
[2727.01] Paul: it'd probably be worthwhile, but at the moment, we're just not.
[2730.01] Paul: But the packs that we're using now are the FMRs,
[2734.01] Paul: which are a Gensei battery.
[2737.01] Paul: I think they're probably close to, if not the same spec,
[2740.01] Paul: as the HV packs that they sell, the tattoos.
[2744.01] Paul: They've been really good.
[2746.01] Paul: Thomas is happy with those.
[2748.01] Paul: Put them through a ton of cycles.
[2750.01] Paul: The realisation we've got for this year is
[2753.01] Paul: battery life is going to be really reduced
[2756.01] Paul: as in terms of how long they last
[2760.01] Paul: because it's pretty much going to be flying full-time this year.
[2763.01] Paul: I'm not sure what that's going to mean
[2765.01] Paul: about the components and battery usage,
[2767.01] Paul: but we should get some really good battery data
[2769.01] Paul: because he's flying a ton of packs.
[2771.01] Paul: For the first time, he's actually charging packs during training.
[2774.01] Paul: We've never had to do that before.
[2776.01] Andy: I noticed everyone running high volts
[2778.01] Andy: when I was looking at the on-screen display.
[2780.01] Andy: Is that sort of a standard now?
[2782.01] Paul: Everyone in the US does that.
[2784.01] Paul: Thomas was probably one of the few that didn't have high voltage charges packs.
[2788.01] Paul: He didn't feel that he needed it for that track.
[2791.01] Paul: His biggest issue in the US...
[2795.01] Paul: I mean, the competition was fantastic.
[2796.01] Paul: Obviously, he had some really great pilots there.
[2799.01] Paul: His biggest issue was himself because of jet lag.
[2802.01] Paul: He was really struggling getting over that
[2806.01] Paul: and just bringing himself back into the game.
[2809.01] Paul: What he did over the course of that time was just slowly worked on,
[2812.01] Paul: I suppose, trying to get over the jet lag and improve.
[2815.01] Paul: That's what he progressively did.
[2817.01] Paul: He felt that was more of an issue than HV charging
[2820.01] Paul: because, like I said, he never once hit full throttle.
[2823.01] Andy: Wow.
[2824.01] Tony: All the racers here are just changing now.
[2827.01] Tony: They're all talking about going success.
[2829.01] Tony: Most people are.
[2830.01] Tony: Because our rules have just changed for racing.
[2833.01] Tony: Well, what's your view on that?
[2836.01] Paul: I know MultiGP did the same thing, too.
[2839.01] Paul: I spoke to Chris Thomas and I didn't like the fact that they jumped up
[2843.01] Paul: and went straight up to whatever you want to use.
[2846.01] Paul: The reason I didn't like that was,
[2849.01] Paul: from our perspective, it's not such a big deal now for the situation that we're in
[2853.01] Paul: because Thomas has got sponsors for anything he wants.
[2855.01] Paul: It's not an issue.
[2857.01] Paul: The problem you have is, tomorrow, if you turn around to Thomas and say,
[2861.01] Paul: run success, it's not going to be a big deal.
[2863.01] Paul: For someone else, that could be a big deal getting a hold of a battery.
[2866.01] Paul: My issue is not so much for us, but for other people.
[2869.01] Paul: What I would have liked to have seen them done is turn around and say,
[2873.01] Paul: we're going to be lifting the battery cell count that you can use.
[2878.01] Paul: You know what I mean?
[2879.01] Paul: Over the course of, say, six months, say in six months' time,
[2882.01] Paul: you can go to 6S, 7S, whatever it may be.
[2884.01] Paul: That way, after about six months, your batteries are pretty much on their way out.
[2888.01] Paul: Your gears had a fair bit of usage, so you know you're going to be upgrading stuff.
[2892.01] Paul: You might then work towards building rigs that can actually go to the higher cell count.
[2898.01] Paul: That, to me, makes a lot more sense than turning around and saying, overnight,
[2902.01] Paul: you can just lift this restriction.
[2904.01] Paul: No more for us.
[2905.01] Paul: You can use whatever you want.
[2906.01] Paul: Then expect a holop of people who aren't really sponsored,
[2909.01] Paul: who don't have those resources, or don't have a mum and dad
[2912.01] Paul: that can funnel money into them.
[2915.01] Andy: That's a really good point, actually.
[2917.01] Andy: I bought a Tatooile 9 6S battery, and it costs £45.
[2922.01] Andy: Mental, isn't it?
[2923.01] Andy: Which is double the price of a 4S.
[2926.01] Paul: Without a doubt.
[2927.01] Paul: I have to do the same thing for the spec race.
[2929.01] Paul: We're in the US because Thomas decided he wanted to do the spec race.
[2932.01] Paul: I can't remember how many batteries I bought.
[2934.01] Paul: About five of them or something like that.
[2936.01] Paul: I spent like $250 US on batteries, just for five packs.
[2941.01] Paul: We're sponsored by another manufacturer just to use those packs.
[2944.01] Paul: You can imagine someone else, if they've got to buy 30 packs,
[2947.01] Paul: it's going to cost a lot of money.
[2950.01] Paul: Like Snake said, it is still a relatively cheap spool.
[2955.01] Paul: Having said that, I think they can still do things smart.
[2959.01] Tony: It's not just batteries you've got to update.
[2961.01] Tony: I was going to say, I think the issue is,
[2966.01] Snake: people are assuming that our hardware,
[2970.01] Snake: because it's got 6S written on the packaging,
[2972.01] Snake: or it must be fine.
[2974.01] Snake: The reality is, it is not going to be anywhere near as reliable on 6S,
[2979.01] Snake: or even 5S, particularly motors.
[2982.01] Snake: I've never seen people rave about how well 5S flies for freestyle.
[2990.01] Snake: But no one's flying it.
[2992.01] Snake: I go out flying with people, nobody is flying it.
[2995.01] Snake: Anytime I do see somebody flying it,
[2997.01] Snake: they just fry motors left, right and center.
[3000.01] Paul: I don't think it's there.
[3007.01] Snake: It's exactly where hardware was when we were in that transition between 3S and 4S.
[3013.01] Snake: Yes, it works most of the time, but not all of the time.
[3016.01] Snake: That's not what you want. You want it to be bulletproof reliable.
[3020.01] Snake: I think that what you're saying, Paul, about the cost thing is,
[3026.01] Snake: one of the reasons why they put caps on how much people can spend in motor racing
[3033.01] Snake: is because if you don't put a cap on it,
[3036.01] Snake: it's not about how much people spend,
[3038.01] Snake: it's about the fact that those with more money will spend more money
[3042.01] Snake: and it will widen the gap even further between the ones that have got the resources
[3047.01] Snake: and the ones that don't.
[3049.01] Snake: That's going to be the problem.
[3052.01] Snake: If they turn around and say,
[3053.01] Snake: okay, everyone can fly 6S now,
[3055.01] Snake: the people with cash are going to just go out and blow two or three thousand dollars
[3059.01] Snake: on replacing every single piece of hardware in every quad they have.
[3062.01] Snake: They're going to go and buy 40 new packs.
[3064.01] Snake: They're going to buy new charges.
[3065.01] Snake: They're going to buy whatever they need.
[3068.01] Snake: Whereas someone else might just go,
[3071.01] Snake: well, I guess my equipment is probably going to be fine.
[3074.01] Snake: I'll go and buy five packs and I'll be done with it.
[3077.01] Snake: Then they'll come to a race meet.
[3079.01] Snake: They'll blow an ESC or a motor.
[3081.01] Snake: They'll have to start charging packs after their fifth one
[3085.01] Snake: and they'll just be nowhere.
[3087.01] Snake: I don't see the advantage of it.
[3091.01] Snake: The nail in the coffin for the argument of more cells
[3096.01] Snake: is every single time I post a video that's just me flying around,
[3103.01] Snake: I get like, I posted one yesterday and I'm going to find the comment.
[3108.01] Jack: Where is it?
[3115.16] Snake: Why is this sped up?
[3119.16] Snake: Or as another comment, is this 5S?
[3121.16] Snake: No, it's not 5S.
[3123.16] Snake: It's low pitch props on a 4S quad that's heavy.
[3129.16] Snake: There's nothing remarkable about it in terms of it's hardware on paper.
[3135.16] Snake: It's just being flown towards limits.
[3137.16] Snake: You see most of the people that are making arguments for high power equipment
[3142.16] Snake: can't actually fly their low power equipment towards limit anyway.
[3145.16] Snake: Why are you even bothering?
[3147.16] Tony: I agree. I'm not going to bother this year.
[3150.16] Jack: I'm just going to stay 4S and watch what happens.
[3157.16] Jack: Yeah, Tony.
[3159.16] Jack: Guys, I'm really sorry. I've got to go.
[3161.16] Jack: I'm doing the 80s night on the Thursday night show.
[3166.16] Jack: Again, so if you guys want to jump over and check me out there,
[3170.16] Jack: do you want to wrap up or are you guys going to keep going?
[3173.16] Jack: Don't forget, you will make him very angry.
[3178.16] Tony: Well, he's just on a TV screen miles away from me.
[3182.16] Jack: He's literally going to grot me with an XLR cable.
[3186.16] Jack: Let's make him angry.
[3188.16] Jack: No, I feel like I barely spoke to you, Snake.
[3192.16] Jack: I'm sorry.
[3194.16] Jack: These things always go.
[3196.16] Jack: I can come on again.
[3198.16] Jack: I need to catch up with you.
[3200.16] Jack: I miss you, Paul, as well.
[3202.16] Jack: I've forgotten that your son now keeps you in some sort of dungeon.
[3207.16] Jack: Yes.
[3209.16] Jack: Which makes you work for him.
[3213.16] Jack: He's not listening to this, is he?
[3215.16] Andy: No, he's not.
[3218.16] Jack: I know, man. He literally poops gold. It's great.
[3223.16] Snake: What is he doing right now, Paul?
[3225.16] Snake: He should be out like doing some sort of training.
[3228.16] Paul: He's getting ready to go bowling with his mates.
[3231.16] Paul: He's going to do tempting bowling because he's got a pre-bowl
[3235.16] Paul: because he's still doing a bowling league and every Saturday
[3238.16] Paul: he's got something on and he doesn't actually bowl.
[3240.16] Paul: So he's in a bowling league where he doesn't actually bowl.
[3242.16] Paul: He goes and either bowls on his own or bowls with a couple of mates beforehand.
[3246.16] Paul: So I'm not sure what the point of that is, but anyway.
[3248.16] Jack: Have you insured his thumbs and stuff?
[3250.16] Jack: Yeah, I was going to take watches.
[3252.16] Tony: There's some thumbs in there.
[3254.16] Paul: He's crazy.
[3256.16] Tony: He's going to have to get insurance.
[3257.16] Tony: You know a lot of people get insured for their arses.
[3259.16] Tony: For their hands.
[3261.16] Tony: He's going to have to get insurance on his hands, isn't he?
[3263.16] Jack: Is he a hand model?
[3265.16] Jack: No, he flies FPV.
[3267.16] Jack: That's exactly right.
[3270.16] Jack: Right guys, honestly, I've got to go.
[3272.16] Jack: Shall we wrap it up there?
[3274.16] Snake: Yeah, I've got to go soon anyway.
[3276.16] Snake: But definitely happy to come on again at some point in the future.
[3280.16] Jack: Yeah, I want to go.
[3282.16] Jack: Team motors, you traitoring on the Mr. Steve motors.
[3287.16] Jack: I still haven't sent me my new motors yet.
[3290.16] Jack: They're coming.
[3292.16] Snake: I've actually got new team motors here.
[3294.16] Snake: Where are they?
[3295.16] Snake: I got the F60 the other day.
[3297.16] Snake: Team motors sent me.
[3298.16] Snake: That video, yes.
[3300.16] NJ: Before we go, just a couple of quick fire questions.
[3303.16] NJ: I've got to ask you four by three or 16 by nine.
[3307.16] Jack: He's got videos on it.
[3309.16] Snake: Four by three.
[3310.16] NJ: Four by three and favorite battery at the minute.
[3316.16] Snake: My favorite battery is my thunder power packs.
[3319.16] Jack: Thunder power.
[3320.16] Jack: I am also adrenaline.
[3321.16] Jack: Sugar rush or adrenaline?
[3323.16] Snake: The adrenaline.
[3325.16] Snake: The sugar rush are like a bigger capacity or something, I think.
[3329.16] Snake: Is it?
[3330.16] Snake: I don't know.
[3331.16] NJ: Brilliant.
[3332.16] NJ: And last but not least, I just have to quickly mention,
[3334.16] NJ: anyone that got the Skyzone goggles, the SkyO3s, the new ones,
[3338.16] NJ: I did a video on how to mod these so that they would fit a Western nose.
[3342.16] NJ: Skyzone have been in contact with me,
[3344.16] NJ: and they are actually recalling all of these,
[3346.16] NJ: and they're going to take the guts out and put them into a new shell,
[3350.16] NJ: which apparently will fit everyone's faces.
[3353.16] NJ: Well done, Jay.
[3354.16] NJ: Did you call them racist?
[3357.16] NJ: Of course not.
[3360.16] Jack: Sorry.
[3361.16] Jack: Someone has to do that.
[3362.16] Jack: There you go, editor.
[3363.16] Jack: And you'll keep.
[3365.16] Jack: Thank you.
[3367.16] Jack: Is that it?
[3368.16] NJ: I think we're there.
[3369.16] NJ: Thank you, Andy.
[3370.16] NJ: I'll see.
[3371.16] NJ: Snake.
[3372.16] NJ: Paul.
[3373.16] NJ: Tony.
[3374.16] NJ: Our editor behind Jack.
[3377.16] NJ: Let's have a wave.
[3379.16] NJ: And Jack, you can finish.
[3381.73] NJ: You can have the last word.
[3382.73] NJ: No, it's fine.
[3383.73] Jack: I was really impressed.
[3384.73] Jack: Thank you.
[3385.73] Jack: I can't believe how much you're doing nowadays.
[3388.73] Jack: You're asking questions.
[3389.73] Jack: You're talking.
[3390.73] Jack: I feel redundant.
[3391.73] Jack: I sat with my hands in my pocket being like, yep.
[3395.73] Jack: Kiss is great.
[3397.73] Jack: Kiss is great.
[3398.73] Andy: We need you, though, Jack, to talk about nipples every so often.
[3401.73] Andy: Oh, my God.
[3402.73] Andy: I know.
[3403.73] Jack: Apple are screwing us, man.
[3405.73] Jack: It's the worst since Job snuffed it.
[3408.73] Jack: Right.
[3409.73] Jack: Thank you for listening to Let's Throw Now.
[3410.73] Jack: Tune in next week.
[3413.73] Jack: Thank you all our patrons and subscribers.
[3416.73] Jack: Thumbs up.
[3417.73] Jack: Click the like or dislike button.
[3420.73] Jack: Click the dislike button if you think the Earth is flat.
[3424.73] Jack: Click the like button if you think the Earth is a glow.
[3429.73] Jack: Or if you think it's potato shaped, type in the comments.
[3435.73] Jack: It is potato shaped and it will make Snake laugh.
[3438.73] Jack: Thank you and good night.
[3439.73] Jack: Peace.
[3440.73] Jack: Good night, guys.
[3441.73] Andy: Bye.
[3443.73] Andy: Yeah.
[3444.73] UNKNOWN: Telemetry lost.