=== Let's Drone Out — Episode 145 ===
Title: LDO Episode; 145 Menace RC PicoPatch with Greg Spencer
Recorded: 2018-06-07
Hosts: Andy, Jack "Brightontillifly" Nash, Wayne "CurryKitten" Andrews, Tony "TheTonstar1" Marchant
Guest(s): Greg "Menace" Spencer
Total audience: 3,127
Platforms: YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpBS8oEUfOI); SoundCloud (http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/feeds.soundcloud.com/stream/458816466-letsdroneout-ldo-episode-145-menace-rc-picopatch-with-greg-spencer.m4a)
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Our deepest sympathy for your loss Tornado girl Our thoughts are with you x

[0.0] Jack: now on the tree recovery let's drone out
[7.41] Curry: it seemed like the right way to start the podcast thank goodness for the live
[11.01] Jack: logo in the corner yeah hello and you're listening to you
[14.61] AndyRC: let's drone out i didn't even see that it missed the best part it missed the best
[19.41] Jack: part out there yeah like f p v butt holding
[23.97] Jack: um yeah right tonight we are joined by Andy
[30.05] Jack: RC good evening everyone Greg from menace RC
[35.25] Jack: hello everyone curry kitten hello and everyone's
[41.65] Jack: favorite first person view in my butthole
[45.57] AndyRC: tony i think you should elaborate on that why we're talking about
[49.49] AndyRC: fpv3 buttholes and what's the reception like
[53.97] Curry: and has Greg already developed a new antenna that can help us out there
[59.65] AndyRC: probably it's called the pro i thought it was i thought it was called the invader
[66.29] AndyRC: myself
[70.53] Jack: and i am bright until i fly uh one of our
[74.85] Jack: favorite viewers has lost someone close to them and
[77.97] Jack: we would just like to say that we give our thoughts
[82.45] Jack: to her and uh also someone very special is watching tonight for tony
[88.69] Jack: hello don't be shy say hello in the chat oh i forgot we've got a chat yeah shout
[95.97] Tony: out to um i'm gonna say her name tornado girl
[99.17] Tony: we're thinking about you are you going out with
[104.24] Tony: tornado girl now no but i'm thinking about her because she
[109.12] Jack: lost someone dear to her so what about the other girl are you thinking about
[112.64] Jack: her as well just constantly okay constantly jack
[121.6] Jack: okay there is a chat so anyway tonight uh we're here with
[128.0] Jack: menace i see how you doing very well thanks very much
[132.16] Jack: oh you're a little bit muffled yeah a moment ago
[136.4] Greg: oh does it get clearer as i come in closer
[139.84] Jack: no no are you recording with a potato we had to teach tony about this
[149.84] Greg: it's on a macbook it's a macbook microphone
[153.2] Jack: it's still metal it's horrendous anyone listening to this as a podcast i do
[158.56] Jack: apologize greg makes fantastic antennas but is
[163.04] Jack: absolutely useless when it comes to microphones
[165.76] Greg: if you can bear with me i'll go and get a microphone please do
[169.44] Greg: hello yeah clear up it's still rubbish
[177.92] Greg: do i leave and rejoin via the phone no that's fine just
[182.08] Tony: we're just carrying on have you got an android phone no
[186.08] Jack: have you got the headphones that came with your apple device
[189.68] Greg: somewhere all right no find them it could be out
[195.04] Greg: i'll be back again can you carry on talking amongst yourselves
[199.44] AndyRC: move it on hold sorry sorry about that guys my computer
[204.0] AndyRC: did a blue screen of death always does that when we do this podcast somehow it's
[208.0] AndyRC: like it's trying to tell me something yeah all right you're closing your
[211.12] Curry: brilliant position andy you were doing this
[214.48] AndyRC: yeah i did it actually was like that for about
[217.76] AndyRC: 30 seconds because i wasn't sure whether it was still
[221.44] AndyRC: like it did it did the windows blue screen of death
[224.72] AndyRC: but like it said on like your computer's gathering information i'm like what if
[228.64] AndyRC: it's actually transmitting i'll sit like that for 30 seconds
[235.36] Jack: that's funny anyway any objections to me because the
[238.72] Jack: podcast has gone so to shit any objections to me
[242.8] Jack: um like phoning up and ordering a pizza because like i did i did not get to
[248.96] Jack: finish cooking my cooker exploded as long as you
[253.04] AndyRC: read out your your credit card details on like on the
[257.04] AndyRC: street and then yes i don't know about that
[260.56] Jack: something inside me telling me that's wrong are you going to order just to offend
[265.28] Tony: tony as well where's frank when you need him oh there
[269.44] Jack: we go hello can i order a pizza
[275.84] Tony: this is like the worst podcast ever
[281.2] Curry: just think of all the new uh pizza interest we're going to get all the new
[285.76] Jack: subscribers the only reason i answered this is
[289.52] Jack: because at the moment i'm on like the drone podcast and it is going
[293.6] Jack: to hell so i thought i might as well answer and say
[296.4] Jack: hey how you doing because uh i really wish the
[300.0] Jack: ground would open up and eat me right about now
[302.56] AndyRC: so do i yeah mate all the pizza places are
[308.0] Jack: i phoned you a lot of time what would you recommend dominos or pizza
[312.64] Tony: i don't know i don't know anymore uh you can get vegans you can get vegans
[317.2] Tony: pizza all right you can't hear me now yes
[323.04] Greg: it's working nice and clear it's very perfect
[327.68] Tony: cool right hello hi greg from nslc how are you yeah i'm
[334.4] Greg: good i'm glad you can hear me now you sound
[337.52] Greg: great cool right what should we talk about
[340.8] Tony: well the new pico patch i think um that's the one yes cool
[348.56] Tony: is the left end the same color yeah they're both purple
[352.08] Greg: the pico patch okay so i'll give you a quick
[355.84] Greg: overview of the patch itself um designed it it's much smaller than our
[361.36] Greg: current invader um and also it's been able to increase
[366.16] Greg: the efficiency of the patch itself which means it we've been able to bring
[370.08] Greg: the gain of it up so ultimately you've got a much smaller patch
[374.64] Greg: and you can fly a bit further with it so that's
[378.4] Greg: the pico in a nutshell
[382.72] Greg: what's the sort of beam width is that thinner or the same or
[387.04] Greg: so what what you've got here is um where you've increased the overall gain
[392.16] Greg: it's the out front gain of the patch itself it means that the
[396.64] Greg: beam width is reduced so it's a it's a 61 degrees
[402.56] Greg: on the patch itself but what i've been able to do is plot
[408.0] Greg: the polar plot of the patch against the invader patch and also
[412.96] Greg: the pagoda as well onto a different style of chart
[417.6] Greg: um because all the all the antennas and everything you see
[422.0] Greg: on the market they they're all in db and it's very hard
[426.32] Greg: for the average user to relate the db to the actual
[429.92] Greg: what it's going to do for you so i've been able to work it out and plot it in
[434.72] Greg: meters so based on a 25 milliwatt vtx
[439.04] Greg: um of course you can see the range and the beam width
[446.64] Greg: and everything that you can fly with it what's interesting is that
[450.32] Greg: down at the close quarters the the beam width is very similar
[455.92] Greg: to to the invader and then you can see there's a there's a massive lobe out at
[460.56] Greg: the front we've got that plot up on the menace
[463.84] Greg: website so if anyone wants to have a look they can just hop on there and
[467.36] Greg: go on to the pico page and you will see what i'm talking about
[471.6] Jack: or you could put the link in the chat i still think jack that the title is
[476.64] AndyRC: spelled wrong spelt spelt i think it's pico not peco
[482.88] AndyRC: welcome to the dyslexic podcast it isn't it
[486.08] Jack: yeah just people just say no you've done it wrong
[489.12] Jack: and then just say put a c in it and don't actually tell me where
[492.08] AndyRC: or what or i think it came for a c yeah but it's it's pico isn't it not pe
[501.49] AndyRC: not says pecco you did an e as well well you got two out of four letters
[506.45] Tony: right that's right jack i hate you all to be fair that
[513.49] Tony: i don't even know why i'm defending this great yeti but to be fair he
[517.97] Tony: he's um he his cooker did just blow up in his face so
[522.05] AndyRC: he was probably a bit disheveled yeah all right jack the only reason i
[527.01] AndyRC: know as well is because you know i've got one i'm dyslexic and
[531.57] AndyRC: when i was i i always get the title of my
[535.25] AndyRC: videos wronged and when i was looking at pico i was like i couldn't like how
[540.29] AndyRC: how'd you spell that like so i had to to loot
[543.89] AndyRC: so um greg it went on sale was it yesterday
[547.81] Greg: on menace site um we we started um shipping orders yesterday
[554.45] Greg: and uh they went on pre-orders on friday last week
[559.17] Greg: so anyone who's put a pre-order in um would would have shipped yesterday
[563.73] Greg: and likelihood if you're in the uk you would have received it today
[567.89] AndyRC: so when when i did my review i got like quite a few comments that were like
[572.37] AndyRC: damn it i've just bought the invader and so so my question is is this to replace
[579.09] AndyRC: the invader or are you still going to run that because of the slightly wider
[583.33] Greg: field of view on the invader um right so how i see it is that the invader
[590.85] Greg: very good patch and it works extremely well if you're racing in all those sort
[594.93] Greg: of applications um but if you want to do a bit
[598.53] Greg: freestyle you want to fly a little bit further
[601.57] Greg: um then that's what the pico is for um now i'm a strong believer that you don't
[608.77] Greg: just buy one antenna and it's going to be great
[613.17] Greg: for all applications or all places you want to
[616.69] Greg: fly and use it so it's always good to have a few
[621.25] Greg: receiving antennas in your in your toolbox as it were
[625.25] Greg: so that if you're at a location you can pick the right one for you you know the
[628.53] Greg: invader at close quarters wider beam width
[631.17] Greg: you're going to fly a much wider area but then if you want to fly
[635.25] Greg: a lot further then you can swap that out put the pico on
[639.09] Greg: and fly further um that's kind of um you know where it where it fits into the
[645.97] Greg: range so i don't see it as replacing the
[648.53] Greg: invader but just complementing the menace range
[651.09] AndyRC: of receiving patches yeah that's sort of what that's that's sort of what i said
[655.49] AndyRC: to the comments as well because that the invader is probably better for
[660.29] AndyRC: close-up stuff because the field of view also tails off as you get further away
[665.09] AndyRC: doesn't it as well so um that that's kind of how i've been
[669.17] AndyRC: using it as well if you're going a little bit
[671.57] AndyRC: further distance then the pico's good but for where i fly as well like
[677.25] AndyRC: the pico's doing its job close in as well for me so
[680.85] AndyRC: um it's it's a win-win so it's good yeah it's good for uh bush penetration am
[686.13] Jack: all right tony knows all about it days we're not
[690.85] Jack: experts on that you've been doing a lot of uh bush
[695.57] Jack: penetration lately
[698.77] Greg: it's it's definitely going to help if you're flying
[701.97] Greg: through scraggle bushes and search because you you've got a higher gain
[707.17] Greg: antenna on your goggles so you are going to receive more of the
[711.01] Greg: transmitted signal i've just uh i've just looked at that chart greg and i
[715.73] Curry: think that's a fantastic idea i've seen i've obviously seen the sort of chart
[719.09] Curry: before which generally says it's good out the front not so good out
[722.45] Curry: the back but even if it's an estimate put in the sort of
[725.73] Curry: range that it's like you might get is is far better than um
[730.37] Curry: yeah as you say sort of db or just that sort of a strange you know
[734.37] Curry: weird shape that you generally see that's a good idea i hope people adopt
[737.81] Greg: that yeah it was just trying to put it into
[740.93] Greg: into a um something that everyone can relate to
[744.37] Greg: because not everyone talks in dbs or you know in electrical electronic terms so
[750.69] Greg: i think hopefully that it'd be quite quite a
[753.41] Greg: useful way of um explaining how the antennas work
[757.41] AndyRC: and what they're capable of yeah because db can be quite i found it
[762.13] AndyRC: tricky because it's a logarithm it's a mathematic thing isn't it it's sort of
[766.21] AndyRC: it's not linear so um like i think the general rule is
[770.85] AndyRC: is it something like six db is double the
[774.37] AndyRC: range but then if you go up again it's sort of it's it's not like six db
[780.69] AndyRC: every time it sort of it tails off and that's where i struggle with like
[785.09] Greg: talking with db and stuff yeah it can get um it can get very
[790.69] Greg: confusing um so you know with the with the logarithmic
[795.09] Greg: scales and such so you know i think just trying to put
[799.57] Greg: something pictorial in in meters it really does remove
[805.33] Greg: that confusion and it gives you something that is
[808.37] Greg: quite tangible to what you're trying to do with your drain
[811.73] Curry: yeah unless you're american in which case do you think a meter might be
[814.77] Curry: something like 10 miles and you're a bit confused by the whole idea
[818.93] Jack: there's always uh trust curry getting to just so
[825.89] Tony: well it's normally your job um so it's different to the invader patch
[832.37] Tony: isn't it so the invader patch is flat and the pico has got like a bit
[836.69] Tony: sticking out and what's what's that what is that on there and what does it
[841.01] Tony: do and why does it do it um well so basically i'm asking these
[845.41] Tony: questions jack for people who don't know so stop slapping your head i love the
[850.05] Curry: way you put it though he lost me in the technicality there
[852.93] Curry: yeah it's too too much for me sticking out bits
[855.97] Tony: i'm trying to i'm trying to break it down for the viewers
[859.81] Jack: who are probably me anyway you mean the active element and the passive reflector
[867.25] Jack: oh exactly no it's just i thought he might have learned something after all
[873.97] Jack: these years of like you know he attended the
[878.21] Jack: you know the the episode with can we mute him
[885.25] Jack: he was there with me with the episode with
[889.01] Jack: like you know alex there like teaching us
[892.37] Jack: and it did not go in at all not one bit yeah have you heard
[898.05] Tony: like when people do interviews they try to break it down for people who are
[901.41] Tony: listening who don't know how to say stuff yeah i know i thought you might know
[907.73] Tony: well i do know but i'm trying to make it easier for other people who are
[911.41] Tony: listening and now all they can hear is us arguing as you know
[916.13] Jack: sometimes what people tune in for sorry karen i know but not tonight right
[922.45] Greg: sorry so um yeah basically it's a two two layer pcb
[926.61] Greg: construction um no with the invader it was a one it
[930.77] Greg: was a it was a one pcb with two uh copper layers on it so you had your
[935.57] Greg: ground plane on the back of the pcb and on the front you had your active
[939.73] Greg: plane in between those two uh copper elements
[943.25] Greg: you had the pcb material which was the fr4
[947.73] Greg: now fiber graphs for tony that works perfectly well
[953.57] Greg: um but what i've done with the um pico is to try and remove as much of
[960.29] Greg: the fr4 material between the active and the passive um
[965.41] Greg: copper planes um because then air is perfect for radio waves but fr4
[972.05] Greg: isn't so good so um by changing the way it's constructed
[977.65] Greg: and then introducing this air gap in much thinner materials
[981.25] Greg: it means we've moved as much as the fr4 as possible
[984.45] Greg: and therefore increase the efficiency of the um
[987.57] Greg: the patch so that's how um been able to get the gain
[992.05] Greg: up much higher on the pico compared to the invader
[996.85] Greg: as a result of that because the efficiency has gone up i thought well
[999.89] Greg: let's see how far i can push it and optimize how how much i can shrink the
[1004.69] Greg: size of the ground plane so and it's ended up at the size we
[1009.65] Greg: sort of see here um where's the yeah see if anyone's it's
[1014.45] Greg: looking yeah yeah it's like and then side on
[1021.09] Greg: oh you can't really see with the yeah and you get the idea so i am
[1029.7] Curry: fascinated greg i know nothing about the antenna technology but
[1033.38] Curry: in developing this do you just is it like well
[1037.22] Curry: i've done this and i know if i change the shape of this it's going to do that
[1040.58] Curry: and then you put it on a big analyzer and check what happens and is it trial
[1043.7] Curry: and error from there or is there some is there some sort of logic
[1046.74] Curry: about shapes and sizes of what you can do and what you think you're going to
[1049.86] Greg: get from them right there's um so with patch
[1053.22] Greg: antennas a lot of the a lot of the work is done um
[1057.62] Greg: if you go and search for patch antenna design online you'll see
[1061.46] Greg: um numerous websites with calculations and
[1065.3] Greg: ways to calculate um the size of the patch there's even online calculators
[1070.1] Greg: but they're all based on just a standard square
[1073.38] Greg: backplane or a circular backplane um the the active elements can be
[1080.9] Greg: various different shapes um but a majority of these
[1084.34] Greg: um patch designs are done via a square or truncated corner or something like
[1089.86] Greg: that um now what i've done with these is that i
[1096.82] Greg: played around with literally played around with
[1101.14] Greg: different shapes of um ground planes etc
[1106.26] Greg: and then make one test it and then sort of see where it's going
[1112.82] Greg: um think you know if you need to improve it change the shape again
[1117.46] Greg: compare it to the last one and you're trying to build your own profile
[1121.14] Greg: of where you're going with it so it is it is quite a lengthy process and
[1126.98] Greg: you do make quite a lot of prototypes before you end up with something that is
[1132.74] Greg: um that you're happy with if that makes sense
[1136.42] Curry: yeah so how many did you go through and did you end up with any weird and wacky
[1140.5] Curry: shapes that you just like this is this is weird not putting that out
[1143.94] Greg: oh i mean at least at least a dozen iterations
[1147.78] Greg: of the design um now when i when i started off um
[1153.38] Greg: i've got like a small cnc machine so i get some
[1157.78] Greg: uh copper clad board and i can cut this on the cnc machine so the first
[1162.74] Greg: a few iterations are just really hobby handmade on the machine and
[1168.74] Greg: soldered together and everything like that
[1170.58] Greg: but then what happens then is once you've um got something going in that
[1176.66] Greg: sense and then you want to move forward to
[1178.42] Greg: something which is more of a product that's when you get the design files
[1184.5] Greg: over to a pcb house and they will make the um the pcb
[1189.62] Greg: but then ultimately what you find is every single pcb house or pcb source has
[1195.46] Greg: um fr4 material which has different relative permeability so
[1200.66] Greg: you when you get it back it is not what you expected so you have to go through
[1204.26] Greg: that cycle again of tweaking and adjusting until you get to somewhere
[1207.46] Greg: that you're absolutely happy with and it's going to
[1210.66] Greg: perform the way you want it to
[1215.62] AndyRC: so um we've got a lot of things that are changing
[1219.54] AndyRC: like in terms so i think it's fair to say that a lot of people are going to
[1223.7] AndyRC: be using these patch antennas with diversity
[1227.62] AndyRC: because of the you know the field of view etc and we're seeing a lot of
[1235.46] AndyRC: these diversity modules changing recently like the clear
[1240.1] AndyRC: view system and now rapid fire and have any tests been done with with
[1246.18] AndyRC: those to see if um you know the antennas will benefit
[1249.46] AndyRC: that system i've got something here this is a very let's drone out product
[1255.7] AndyRC: the dock king
[1260.82] AndyRC: um don't google docking just don't um
[1266.42] Jack: but i got i got this thing do i edit that out in the edit guys can we have
[1271.14] AndyRC: like a little vote why leave it in why would you the dock king i
[1276.1] AndyRC: said what's oh dock king because two k's i didn't even
[1282.1] AndyRC: know what it was anyways i googled it because everyone was like
[1285.38] AndyRC: oh man that name um dock with you andy uh you can you can
[1291.22] AndyRC: actually uh we should not go into that one of
[1295.38] AndyRC: you will have to be the dock queen you both have to be uh what's the what's
[1299.62] AndyRC: the word um no i'm not gonna say it
[1304.1] Jack: your jokes from the list that you gave me were far
[1307.3] AndyRC: not offensive i had to change them a lot yes i was like i can't i can't say
[1313.38] AndyRC: this yeah and uh basically anytime you heard me
[1316.9] AndyRC: make a joke about myself originally it was road to riot and then i thought
[1320.58] AndyRC: that's not fair i might as well change it to to me so
[1324.82] AndyRC: anyways yeah so what do you what do you make about these
[1328.58] AndyRC: diversity modules in like they do like blending of the two aren't they so that
[1333.3] AndyRC: you don't get right so much complete breakup and
[1336.82] Greg: stuff yeah the um the clear view style
[1340.58] Greg: modules they they obviously work differently to diversity so
[1344.82] Greg: so you know diversity switches from one antenna to the other
[1348.9] Greg: whereas a clear view um like you just said it will take
[1352.9] Greg: what it feels is the best from each antenna and merge the two together i'm
[1358.18] Greg: not sure exactly how it does it but um yeah
[1362.34] Greg: tested um the pico on on a clear view uh two
[1366.58] Greg: two pikos and it works very well um it's um
[1373.54] Greg: these i know there's the the rapid fire as well coming out
[1376.9] Greg: yeah soon if it's not already so i think that's going to be one to grab and
[1381.62] Greg: do some testing with with the pico to see um
[1384.66] Greg: how it performs on that as well so greg saying
[1388.02] Jack: buy more pico antennas two and i take it when you buy two pico
[1395.22] AndyRC: antennas you'll be angling them at different
[1398.1] AndyRC: directions and do you advise doing that on like say um your goggles as well
[1405.14] AndyRC: over using say a omni in conjunction with the pico um it
[1412.18] Greg: depends entirely to the user and what they're trying to do
[1415.62] Greg: um i would say for most applications an omni antenna
[1419.78] Greg: and a directional antenna like the pico would um
[1425.54] Greg: fit most people's applications in what they're trying to do where they're
[1428.9] Greg: trying to fly um i have seen some guys using two pikos
[1433.22] Greg: um again if you're going to put two on it depends what
[1437.06] Greg: what you're trying to achieve with it if you're trying to achieve
[1440.58] Greg: quite a wide flying area at distance then yeah mount the two on
[1445.78] Greg: your goggles and move the angle so they're pointing
[1449.7] Greg: sort of you know out each way apart so maybe at
[1453.7] Greg: sort of 35 to 45 degrees apart or or further depending on you know how far
[1459.38] Greg: you're going to fly and so on um but yeah i i would say most applications
[1465.54] Greg: an omni an omni and pico patch would be great
[1469.38] Greg: but um yeah we'll do some we'll do some more testing and we'll get one of
[1473.06] Greg: those rapid fires and we'll test with that as well and see
[1475.54] AndyRC: see what the best solution is i thought about getting one of those but don't
[1479.54] AndyRC: they require it like i haven't got the hdoers
[1483.3] AndyRC: i've got their um hd3s and don't they require you to run a wire
[1488.1] Tony: across i think the i think the ribbon can't take the
[1492.18] AndyRC: five volts and like josh did a test and he modified it and it made no difference
[1497.14] AndyRC: or something it was i i i need to look up what's going on
[1500.9] AndyRC: because that's why i haven't uh that that's why
[1504.98] AndyRC: doc kinged uh because um i'm yeah i'm not sure about the
[1509.86] AndyRC: the power with the the rapid fire i need to i need to look it up
[1513.94] Curry: sanda put a post on facebook about um modifying one of the bits in fat sharks
[1520.5] Curry: taking off some little resistor or something which would
[1524.1] Curry: then put out the right amount of the thing is though
[1527.54] AndyRC: you know i would that that surely would invalidate
[1531.3] AndyRC: the warranty which i use all the time because fat sharks keep breaking yours
[1536.42] AndyRC: well i use them a lot i mean it's lucky you work for them i should be in trouble
[1540.66] AndyRC: i know yeah i wish i worked for them and i have a nice
[1544.26] AndyRC: shiny pair of hdo's and everyone seems to have gone and bought them but
[1548.5] AndyRC: i haven't got a pair i thought you were supposed to
[1552.74] Jack: receive a check in the post room i don't get anything i don't get anything
[1557.62] AndyRC: from fat shark i wish i did i did although i hear i've got the attitudes
[1561.78] AndyRC: and i hear the attitudes have got the the right
[1565.06] AndyRC: couldn't power up the rapid fire so maybe maybe i can
[1568.9] AndyRC: fight because the racket sorry go on i was just gonna say jack's got attitude
[1573.54] Tony: can i do um can i do a readout with the people in the chat please
[1578.26] Tony: please do i think we should uh richard harvard's in the chat mccreation's in the
[1583.06] Tony: chat erwin's in the chat bill mrc's in chat falling my style
[1587.54] Tony: what's up mate ash is in the chat he's got a
[1591.22] Tony: question he's gonna type out again because i can't find it
[1594.9] Tony: enoch's in the chat who else is in the green patch is
[1599.06] Tony: uh zero as ever what's up zero um who else have we got
[1604.26] Tony: mike mike dread is he in the chat hbi is he in the chat as well what's up hbi
[1609.14] Tony: guy he's uh selling all the menace patches up
[1613.14] Tony: where he works there's harry haggis drone racer 101
[1618.42] Jack: hello everyone and thanks for tuning in yeah you i bet i have typed in the chat
[1625.62] Jack: more times than tony no actually maybe not
[1631.7] Curry: i was just going to encourage people to try it just with one patch because
[1635.7] Curry: there's nothing like the exciting time of having one
[1639.7] Curry: directional antenna and having to manually track with your head
[1643.14] Curry: to find out where your model is that's that's that gets you really
[1646.74] Curry: in interesting positions especially if you're sat in a chair like this
[1650.26] Curry: but uh yeah it's all good that's before the days of diversity was more
[1654.1] AndyRC: interesting it's funny you said i believe i believe this
[1657.06] AndyRC: this docking thing i keep i keep bringing it up
[1665.54] AndyRC: i think it's got like a model finder on it you know so so if your model comes
[1669.94] AndyRC: down uh it's got like a a thing on it so it'd
[1673.7] AndyRC: be interesting to check that out another thing that i um
[1677.14] AndyRC: been told about because this is furious fpv this two tony's
[1681.46] Jack: in the chat by the way and i'm scared sorry
[1684.5] AndyRC: why is that two tony's i don't know it's a picture of a cat
[1689.86] AndyRC: so um if you're a fpv have got a you know how people are um sticking on and off
[1696.74] AndyRC: buttons on their fat sharks for some reason you know have you seen people do
[1700.26] AndyRC: that because they they want a button to turn their fat sharks on um furious
[1705.86] AndyRC: furious actually connect those four well yes yeah but but there are a huge
[1711.06] AndyRC: amount of people and you can loot them up
[1713.62] AndyRC: who are like cutting holes in their fat shots to put a button
[1718.18] AndyRC: on so that you can leave your battery in
[1721.7] AndyRC: like and press the button to turn them off which i think is a bad idea
[1725.62] AndyRC: because it means you can leave your goggles
[1728.34] AndyRC: turned on you know and you know so i don't i don't get the point but people
[1732.58] AndyRC: want it so furious fpv have come out with a fat
[1735.7] AndyRC: shark battery that's got a button on it
[1740.58] AndyRC: so you don't have to do the button mod but i don't know how i don't know how
[1744.58] AndyRC: this is going to work if you leave your battery plugged in
[1749.22] AndyRC: uh and it somehow is recognizing that there's no activity on your goggles it's
[1754.82] AndyRC: going to automatically shut your goggles off
[1758.02] AndyRC: so um that should be an interesting product and hopefully i'll
[1761.94] AndyRC: get one of those to check out as well what what huh
[1765.54] AndyRC: what it's a fat shark battery yeah with a button on it
[1770.1] AndyRC: so you can turn your goggles on and off yeah no i don't think i get but if it
[1774.5] Jack: doesn't detect activity it's going to turn off yeah i don't
[1778.26] AndyRC: know how it's going to do that but that's what they've told me
[1780.9] Tony: oh what so you're flying if you fly very very still and don't move your head it
[1786.1] AndyRC: could turn off while you're flying no no they're saying when there's no
[1790.02] AndyRC: activity with the goggles and i don't know that's what i'm
[1792.98] Tony: saying jack jack when he flies he's like
[1797.54] Tony: like that and there'd be no activity and then you're like
[1801.14] Curry: there are we saying goggles draw more power when there's
[1804.58] Curry: like a picture on the screen but if there's just static
[1808.1] AndyRC: i don't know i really i i don't know well you need to you need to get this
[1813.54] Curry: thank goodness you're going to review this and yeah
[1815.54] Tony: docking thing kind andy and why have you put clothes back on
[1820.1] Tony: everyone was uh wanting you in the vest yeah we've got 60 viewers who want that
[1824.74] AndyRC: top right off you know i i'm i'm not a piece of meat and
[1829.62] Curry: that's literally because tony typed in the chat at the start
[1832.5] Curry: andy arcy's got his tits out for the lads no i wrote that
[1836.02] Curry: did you write that yeah everything gets written in the chat is now 50 to tony
[1839.78] AndyRC: i'm afraid so pleased that that was announced and i'm
[1843.54] AndyRC: sorry to disappoint but um you know i have i have my not a piece of me
[1851.22] AndyRC: actually that's not true i am if anybody is interested in listening that i am
[1856.82] Tony: okay there's a question there's a question in the chat
[1859.78] Tony: for greg what does pico mean or pico jack would call it and why did
[1867.78] Tony: greg name it that pico um okay uh is it like latin for penetration or something
[1876.02] Greg: something very small or something correct yes when you um look at capacitors
[1882.9] Greg: um you got um milli micro pico nano pico it's just um
[1891.86] Greg: as you get smaller in a value that is just the terminology so i thought yeah
[1896.66] Greg: we've seen micro in mini products so let's go for pico so pico patch as in
[1902.98] Greg: smaller so it's physically smaller so none of the next one then
[1910.18] AndyRC: yeah maybe i have i have a question um so is is a um is a clover leaf antenna
[1920.34] AndyRC: not as good as the pagoda that's my question because i i tried the pagoda
[1926.02] AndyRC: and i don't i don't know if it's because i my flying site's quite small i i find
[1931.38] AndyRC: that i'm flying above myself quite a lot and i find um with the pagoda when i go
[1937.38] AndyRC: over the top of myself i lose signal and with the clover leaf i don't get that
[1942.9] AndyRC: um so that's why i don't use the the pagodas i use the the clover leaf but
[1948.02] AndyRC: but when i see everyone's setup they're using a pagoda so what is it that's
[1952.74] AndyRC: better about the pagoda than the clover leaf is it high gain or something what what's the
[1957.78] Greg: the benefit the um so in your situation where you're flying you know earlier on we were talking
[1964.58] Greg: about having the right antenna for the right job yeah you're flying over the top of you so you
[1969.7] Greg: found that the clover works for you which is which is absolutely right because the way the
[1975.46] Greg: pagoda is done it's um everyone knows it's pcb's and um it sets up a the radiation pattern um by
[1984.98] Greg: phasing on these two pcb's but what that means is at the top and at the bottom of the pagoda
[1991.94] Greg: um you've got these sort of nulls so you don't get as much signal at the top and bottom so when
[1999.14] Greg: you've tried that pagoda and you've flown right over your head you're directly underneath it
[2003.38] Greg: and you've experienced the signal dropping out but with the clover leaf it's a bit more uniform
[2008.18] Greg: around the clover so you haven't experienced the um the the dropout um what was the second part of
[2016.18] AndyRC: your question um i think that was it i think that was it really i mean i think the question the
[2021.22] AndyRC: question was which is better um but so so is the pagoda does it have um oh that was it does it have
[2028.66] AndyRC: a higher gain than a clover leaf or or i i i guess they're sort of very low in gain the omnis
[2034.74] Greg: because yeah a lot of omnis hover around the 1 dv mark um so i think the pagoda might be 1.2
[2042.66] Greg: or 1.3 or something like that um the the main difference between the clover leaf and the pagoda
[2048.74] Greg: is what they call the actual ratio um so that's the measurement of the right hand signal compared
[2055.7] Greg: to the left hand signal and how it rejects um the you know the opposite so if you've got a right
[2061.86] Greg: hand one clover um it might pick up more left hand signal than a pagoda because the pagoda
[2070.66] Greg: would reject more of the left hand signal if that makes sense yeah oh okay yeah no that's cool
[2077.22] Tony: should racers be like you know we use raceband and we can sort of fly eight people at a time
[2084.9] Tony: should we start introducing left right left right left right would that make a difference
[2090.82] Greg: um do you know it's going to depend on the location that you're in now if if you say for
[2099.86] Greg: say say we're flying indoors for example and um we're all going left right left right left right
[2107.7] Greg: every time a signal hits a wall indoors it's going to bounce back as the opposite so that
[2112.58] Greg: right hand signal is going to change to a left right so in in an indoor environment if you're
[2117.38] Greg: going left right left right left right i think you would probably see a bit it'd be worse than
[2123.86] Jack: you're all being on the same rights as it were but greg if we're indoors flying our tiny woots
[2130.82] Jack: with linear antennas we're going to be using the bandicoot patch yeah you know you are it's almost
[2137.38] AndyRC: like jack stands it's almost like jack saying that question like he knows the answer that's
[2142.5] Curry: amazing i don't know anything anymore am i being pedantic if because it was slightly getting to me
[2150.34] Curry: every time you guys said clover i'm thinking did i actually mean clover did they mean skew planer
[2155.3] Curry: because surely the the free lobe clover is kind of out of business now isn't it and everyone's got
[2159.46] AndyRC: a four leaf skew planer antenna was that no i think i don't know i just call them the clover
[2166.82] AndyRC: leaf because like they're similar just the shape of them they're so similar that i think for me i
[2172.26] Curry: thought it was alex alex green and some other guys came up with the idea of the clover yeah
[2177.86] Curry: yeah and the skew plane has been around since the 50s as this massive thing developed on low
[2183.62] Curry: frequencies which was adapted so every time people say clover leaf i'm like why are you using the old
[2188.5] Curry: stuff i think just just anecdotally where i fly i'm not seeing a difference between using uh a skew
[2197.49] Curry: and uh a uh a thingy i forgot what the name is now the other one thank you but go yeah yeah
[2204.13] Curry: they all seem the same but i'm not flying over my head like andy does no yeah absolutely it's not
[2208.45] AndyRC: just when i fly well i get it's also when you when you fly higher up i guess i guess you are
[2214.93] Jack: sort of more over over yourself when you fly higher up when you use the dot kick what you could do
[2221.33] Jack: is have the one antenna pointing forward and then one pointing up like in an L shape and maybe that
[2229.25] Jack: might work possibly but then again it depends it depends what your antenna is doing up there though
[2235.17] Tony: i've seen people do that though it works like that doesn't it because you don't even have to
[2239.57] Tony: have your antenna pointing up yeah it does in a way if you point it down it's still the same
[2246.61] Jack: is that right it's a torus yeah it's pointing it down then it just matches the the planes
[2256.37] Tony: yeah so if you're flying and your drones aerials like a unicorn sorry like that you could have one
[2265.09] AndyRC: pagoda up and one point so um i don't i had a look on the site but i couldn't see
[2273.49] AndyRC: does menace have a uh like a cloverleaf style antenna and if if not are you planning on
[2280.21] Greg: releasing one um we haven't got a cloverleaf one no we've got the got the pagodas the pagoda style
[2286.93] Greg: one which we call the raptor yeah um no i i take i i kind of i kind of love the um the control of
[2298.85] Greg: printed circuit boards yeah and in the preciseness of them now you know if you went down the route of
[2306.77] Greg: doing cloverleafs and um you know making making wire loops and everything like that there
[2315.01] Greg: there would be a lot of um testing and setting up in production of each and every one of them
[2322.45] Greg: um and you would probably have quite a high um rate of ones which wouldn't pass the tests
[2330.69] Greg: which would have to come back through for re-tweakening so on so i mean the great thing with PCBs
[2336.13] Greg: is the the accuracy of the copper going onto the PCB is much much higher than um sort of a wound
[2343.57] Greg: or a wire formed antenna um so you know our rejection rate is very small um and that's kind
[2352.45] Greg: of why i love the love the PCBs for repeatability yeah i guess they're more durable as well aren't
[2359.33] AndyRC: they i think like i use the arm way one and they've got sort of like a um a plastic part to them that
[2364.93] AndyRC: sort of stop them from breaking and stuff but uh yeah i i guess the pagoda is much more durable
[2371.49] Curry: in in a crash as well perhaps yeah i've broken a whole bunch of skews and you only have to get
[2377.09] Curry: one of the lobes just slightly off and uh and the antenna is it's usually out straight away yeah i
[2384.05] Curry: found that we've all been at the field sort of saying i'll just bend this back and it'll be okay
[2388.29] Jack: but i don't know i think mine is fantastic that's why you're a daily driver Jack i mean
[2397.81] Jack: what really does it is the broken ground plane it really does make that antenna so flexible
[2405.57] Jack: do you know and i'm pretty sure you can just move it where you need to
[2411.57] Jack: i don't need so much it's like an old car it's like you know or if it's cold in the morning
[2416.53] Jack: oh i bet this would love a good old docking i mean docking
[2427.81] AndyRC: so we've got a question here how long until we get an mmcx to raptor blunts asks blunts ask okay um
[2438.53] Jack: oh hang on two seconds guys there's a there's that noise again there is
[2446.53] Jack: a straw poll and if enough people vote and the RC has got no choice but to take his top off for
[2455.25] Jack: god's sake because it is passed as a petition where is that i'm going to take it off i kind
[2462.45] AndyRC: of feel like there's a me too moment coming up here somewhere and guys if you want to put your
[2467.49] Jack: questions in a chat i will copy them over sorry carry on greg but the vote has had four votes
[2475.33] Tony: so far six oh look it's going up 71 say take your top off and yeah and i'm just about to
[2484.37] Curry: evoke too so yeah can't argue with democracy andy i know i'm voting off i'm feeling violated honestly
[2493.01] Tony: eighty percent eighty three percent off seventeen on i'm quite i'm quite eight i'm quite worried
[2499.57] AndyRC: about this i'm starting to wonder why people are tuning in is it for what we're talking about i just
[2507.09] Jack: like to point it out we had 69 viewers when i said that now it's gotten 71 oh my god i'm not a
[2513.89] AndyRC: piece of meat can you imagine like standing in front of 70 people and just taking your shirt off
[2519.81] AndyRC: you got it you got it that's what's happening right how i need people friends to to vote this
[2527.17] AndyRC: down can we can we have answer the mmcx question yes mmcx okay cool um i've been asked quite a few
[2535.97] Greg: times for mmcx and previously to that ufl um so basically i've had a look at doing it with
[2545.33] Greg: our current raptor pagoda offering and i think it will probably be quite a bad idea because
[2552.93] Greg: the the pagoda raptor is um is quite a big um sort of circumference to the to the antenna
[2561.65] Greg: itself with quite a lot of weight on there so if we're going down to a thinner cable and everything
[2566.21] Greg: it's i think we're going to introduce problems elsewhere so we i'm currently working on something
[2572.69] Greg: um which i hope to get the design work finished over the coming uh you know a couple of weeks or
[2579.81] Greg: so and it should be a smaller omni aimed purely at mmcx and if anyone still wants ufl with that as
[2588.69] AndyRC: well yeah because i know that's become quite a thing hasn't it like doing away with the sma
[2595.01] AndyRC: connector completely for weight purpose on the copter i noticed the um the the axi you can get
[2601.73] AndyRC: it with actually those you can get with ufl as well which i think is a really bad idea because
[2608.13] Curry: ufl is just not strong enough to have a direct how connector i've had i've had to glue down
[2614.21] Curry: because at some point it's just come off and yeah ripped out too easy but mmcx i quite like i think
[2619.81] AndyRC: it's pretty pretty then you've got you've got a crowd of people that say mmcx is is too hefty
[2625.97] AndyRC: and heavy so you can't win really but i prefer mmcx so um well i think if you look at like ufl
[2635.17] Greg: in mmcx and sma and you you look at the data sheets for each of those connectors and the
[2641.65] Greg: number of operations you know the disconnect and regroup the ufl is something like 10 operations
[2648.05] Greg: wow the sma is about 500 mmcx i think is somewhere between 50 and 100 i can't remember
[2657.25] Greg: oh really so that's so that's more yeah yeah so out of those three if you're going for lightweight
[2662.85] Greg: then the mmcx is probably you know the happy medium neither all of those numbers are quite
[2669.33] AndyRC: terrifying actually aren't they they're very small amounts for you know you know um especially ufl
[2675.49] AndyRC: because i you know they they come disconnected all the time when you're doing a build aren't they
[2680.29] Curry: yeah that's because you've unplugged them too many times already and they've just broken
[2684.53] Jack: what do you why are you unplugging them usually they're just glued on no you don't know it's
[2689.25] Curry: just come out all the time every time i can sort of at least watch his past yeah it's gone especially
[2695.57] AndyRC: when you're doing a build and like um for example like if your vtx has come like a lot of those
[2701.49] AndyRC: little hlrc ones you have to put the the gooey bit on yourself you know so they come disconnected
[2708.93] AndyRC: when you're trying to you know do your build and with your cable ties and stuff they come
[2713.41] AndyRC: disconnected all the time so i think that's why so falling with style says mating cycles
[2721.09] Jack: mating cycles i was just trying to point out that ndrc's complaining about mating cycles and
[2726.93] AndyRC: waving and docking around i wasn't sure if you were talking about the vote again when you started
[2732.05] Tony: talking about richard harwood said andy i just took all my clothes off to make you feel better
[2737.25] Tony: so someone is watching nude right now richard harwood oh yeah that makes me feel way better
[2742.77] Jack: but yeah you'll be pleased a lot more people voted for you to keep your top on all this thing
[2748.77] AndyRC: is missing now is like a donation thing and then i'm i'm basically you know i've become like a
[2753.65] AndyRC: cam boy or whatever i'm talking you could be called the docking this is the life dream i've
[2761.57] AndyRC: become the live docking episodes that is uh that's quite frightening oh yeah i see there's a question
[2771.57] Greg: there from is it richard warrick is there an updated bandicoot in the works um no quick
[2780.13] Greg: no um because the bandicoot was always designed for sort of like the micro drones the little
[2787.25] Greg: works and things like that so i think to redesign that into a much higher gain antenna it probably
[2793.89] Greg: won't achieve an awful lot for these sort of um micro james i might be wrong um but yeah nothing's
[2801.97] Greg: gonna be developed on the bandicoot as such somebody asked somebody asked me a question
[2807.09] AndyRC: right because i always use the the bandicoot in conjunction with the the onway antenna and
[2813.09] AndyRC: somebody said wouldn't it be better to use it in conjunction with a uh sort of like a dipole
[2819.57] Greg: antenna what did you know the answer yeah the bandicoot's designed to work um with a with a
[2826.21] Greg: whip or dipole style antenna um oh you mean on the goggles on the receiving end yeah the receiving
[2832.13] Greg: how i get you yeah um i get asked that question quite a lot what can i put on the goggles with
[2837.01] Greg: with the bandicoot and it really it it doesn't make an awful lot of difference um you can stick
[2843.81] Greg: a circular on there uh circular omni or you could put a like a the rubber duck because what what
[2850.77] Greg: you'll find is that the bandicoot would do most of the work and the other antenna will just probably
[2856.61] Greg: fill in the gaps you know for like if you do go over your head or behind you and things like that
[2862.13] Curry: i did do a test with just a single antenna flying omni to omni versus like a skew to omni and
[2869.09] Curry: because because i thought oh yeah omni omni is going to be good i completely forgot about the
[2872.85] Curry: fact that of course as soon as you turn that the antenna completely depolarizes and you've like got
[2879.73] Curry: such a db loss coming in it was amazing so at any distance i think i went to about 300 meters
[2885.17] Curry: and turned around and the little um rubber duck is like static for about 10 seconds during this
[2892.77] Curry: turn whereas the skew just like a little flicker and it was back again and that's because it's like
[2898.13] Curry: it's a it's not a gain is it it's a loss but it's a constant loss all the way around so it
[2903.01] Curry: doesn't matter where your orientation of the uh the other antenna is yes yeah that's right because
[2909.65] Greg: yeah if you you get your cross polarization and you lose a lot of gain or you do in theory
[2916.85] Greg: so if you take um yeah two linear antennas and you turn one of them in 90 degrees the actual area
[2925.97] Greg: where they're cross-secting is very small so you do lose a lot of your signal um what you'll find
[2932.21] Greg: though is if you use a bandicoot with a linear antenna on your drone the bandicoot is way more
[2940.93] Greg: forgiving than two dipoles so you would you would not experience that dropout and we've done a lot
[2948.69] Greg: of testing here and you can do flips inverts and all sorts with the with the drone and you don't
[2955.17] AndyRC: lose the signal sweet says here and the RC and the RC should take his top off and wear two pico
[2963.57] Tony: patches oh my god do it no it would haunt me says yodel yeah me e-knock FBV says the question
[2974.37] Tony: what about a real real long-range antenna are are you going to make one of those like a proper
[2980.37] Tony: like a pepper box type cannon type thing have you thought of anything yeah i've got i've got
[2989.49] Greg: some designs i'm working on when can i have my one sent to me as soon as it's ready sweet yeah
[2999.41] Greg: no um there will yes long range everyone's talking about long range everyone wants to fly further
[3004.93] Greg: they want to fly kilometers or you know that type of thing um so yes we will be addressing it and
[3012.05] Greg: yes we are working on designs and should have something in the foreseeable future cool so
[3019.01] Tony: there's stuff in the works so you're always working i still think it's interesting when
[3023.97] Curry: people talk about long range in the context of quads because it's all relative isn't it
[3027.89] Curry: it's like long range in the quad it's like my goodness you went to one kilometer
[3031.89] Tony: well i don't know i'm playing with you like 10 minutes of mine so i can go 10 minutes
[3036.29] Curry: five out and five back well you can fly 10 minutes if you fly you know like like this very
[3042.61] Tony: concentrated being in general drives like miss daisy um yeah four four minutes out fall back
[3051.17] Curry: that'll get you some distance beyond what beyond a couple of kilometers i should think
[3058.27] Curry: maybe three with the right the right sort of quad somebody said to me why why don't we see uh
[3065.79] AndyRC: why don't we see dual antennas on vtx and i think their idea was um to sort of have a maybe an
[3073.07] AndyRC: antenna above the quad so on top and an antenna below the quad but i i guess i i mean the answer
[3082.11] AndyRC: i gave is that like i i think there are ideas why why don't we have diversity on a copter and
[3087.71] AndyRC: of course you can't have it on the copter i think what maybe you could have i think you
[3092.83] AndyRC: would have to have maybe two vtxes one transmitting and do you know what i mean so you had like
[3099.55] AndyRC: 225 milliwatts that would be 50 milliwatts but would it would it though if there's you know
[3106.35] Curry: what i mean somebody set this up i don't know if this was this was alex again did this as a system
[3112.83] Curry: on a plane where you use two vtxes and two receivers or or something and the idea was it
[3119.95] Curry: was going to be it looked for the the best signal or or something like left hand and right hand
[3124.75] Curry: polarized on different things and it used some sort of diversity system it was some weird and
[3129.15] Curry: wacky setup which was basically to try and alleviate the problem at range about anything
[3135.23] Curry: on the it was on a wing or something about something blocking the signal at certain
[3140.35] AndyRC: distance well yeah if you've got your antenna on the top of a quad copter for example and you go
[3144.83] AndyRC: up high your copter is blocking the signal completely so i think i think their idea was
[3149.87] AndyRC: just to have another antenna at the bottom and then when that happens that one becomes in use
[3155.15] AndyRC: somehow but it's that somehow part that's uh quite tricky somebody did something and i think
[3161.87] Curry: it was based more on about left hand and right hand polarization than two different it might have
[3166.67] Curry: been on two different channels i can't remember that it's gonna bug me and i'm gonna have to try
[3169.95] Greg: and look that up i'm i think i i do remember something vaguely about this where it was two
[3174.51] Greg: vtxes on two um different channels and one was on left and one was on right and then they modified
[3180.43] Greg: a diversity receiver to receive the two different frequencies but the diversity would pick the
[3186.43] Greg: clearest one um from what i remember yeah okay yeah that makes sense we could send send one to
[3194.83] Tony: each chai someone said in the chat just close your eye to defend which one's best yeah i saw
[3203.15] AndyRC: someone who fitted a servo on their antenna and it it flicked it up to underneath like on a switch
[3210.59] AndyRC: like on a servo so when they went above themselves it was like a manual switch you could go the whole
[3216.91] Curry: hog and you could have tracking on the ground and the reverse tracking on your model as well so
[3222.19] AndyRC: well both antennas would point towards each other at all time i hate to talk about the dock king
[3228.59] AndyRC: again you're not helping but but what this does is it it um if you can buy like an infinite number
[3238.83] AndyRC: of these and link them together via an ethernet cable and the idea is that you you sort of like
[3245.15] AndyRC: say if you're in a race you can dart them around the track um and it'll it'll be multi-versity i
[3252.75] AndyRC: think they they say and uh the thing is that the thing is though like you'd need that for every
[3259.15] AndyRC: pilot because it's multi-versity for just the one channel that it's on so i don't know whether
[3265.15] AndyRC: that's going to take off but um that's something that this system offers i suppose they could be
[3270.75] Curry: suggesting that you could um let's say you wanted to fly around uh tunnels that go under the ground
[3278.19] Curry: yeah every so often yeah but i love your quote about having an infinite amount of them it's like
[3285.07] Curry: if you have an infinite amount of them you it will tie the works with shakespeare it's kind of like
[3289.23] Curry: that yeah something like that you know the top limit that's interesting though yeah i'm tempted
[3294.59] AndyRC: to go and like sort of climb a load of trees and just put them in permanently whether just
[3299.15] Curry: like a lipo just a lipo there's an angle around where you fly it on the two bin and just like
[3304.99] Curry: then every time you fly you don't have to even think about it xt60 that yeah just dangles at
[3309.23] AndyRC: the bottom of the tree plug it in okay sorry i've got another question in the chat sorry
[3316.11] Tony: sorry to cut you off i didn't mean to end are you in full swing then i'm talking garbage tony so
[3321.71] Tony: it's fine seaweed in the chat says does it cause much loss running a 45 degree connector with my
[3331.47] Tony: patch no there you go that's a positive no from greg at menace if you if you want to find out more
[3339.79] Greg: hop onto the menace website go to the page which says tips in on it says what tips tips
[3349.87] Greg: and there's a bit there where i've done a little bit of testing um with various different connectors
[3355.47] Greg: and from what i remember the 45 was hardly anything the 90 degree was hardly anything
[3362.91] Greg: but some of the extensions that i tested um some were good some were not so good
[3369.31] Jack: hmm that's that's the worry in doing the coaxial is made out of is that right
[3374.75] Greg: whether it's lost yeah well the one i think i was them was rg 316 which is only good to about
[3381.07] Greg: three gigahertz it's been sold as a good for 5.8 but it wasn't interesting yeah um i've got two
[3391.31] Jack: kind of random things and then we'll ask droning out droning on's question um one is andy rc uh
[3399.87] Jack: dan upton's currently working on a dog poo bin emoji from my switch oh awesome yeah which i
[3407.47] Jack: thought was quite funny and um i was going to go back to curry kitten's um skew planer and clover
[3414.59] Jack: leaf uh argument surely it was back in the day the clover leaf was the three lobed antenna and
[3422.91] Jack: then the skew planer was the receiver one for the four the the way i would call it and i might be
[3430.27] Curry: wrong but i think the the skew planer was the old one with the four lobe yeah and that would stay
[3435.71] Curry: on your receiver wouldn't it yeah if you were running them you would always run the the the
[3441.07] Curry: more lobes on the receiver so it got into a habit for a while that people would have a skew on the
[3446.11] Curry: receiver and a clover leaf on the the model but then it's like we'll just run skew both ends
[3451.07] Jack: because that's that's better that's what we did yeah wasn't it because like you know you're making
[3459.44] Curry: it yourself well when people were making it themselves it was slightly harder to make them
[3466.0] Curry: decently which before people started making them in in any sort of bulk quantity so the the onway
[3473.68] AndyRC: antenna that i run is listed as the onway clover leaf
[3481.12] AndyRC: have a look type in google onway clover leaf i'm not typing that in i'm i'm looking for
[3486.64] Curry: on way skew planer screw on way they don't know what they're talking about let me find
[3491.44] Jack: let me find what i'm yeah like as far as uh rc model reviews are they can't be trusted
[3497.12] AndyRC: but you can make an antenna i'm not too i'm not too bothered on the name really it's you know
[3501.84] AndyRC: plus you can have a four leaf clover surely lucky they're just legends
[3511.04] Tony: greg most of your stuffs are receiving antennas are you doing a transmitter antenna in chimesine
[3516.48] Greg: yeah well we were just talking earlier about the mmcx so yeah is there anything else coming
[3523.12] Greg: with that what transmitting wise yeah um well yeah this mmcx is going to be um
[3531.52] Greg: some a little bit different without going into too much detail but yeah it should be
[3536.32] Greg: a good little omni antenna to administer range yeah you look really intellectual your glasses
[3542.48] Jack: greg you should wear them more it's only so i can see things right to to slightly interrupt if you
[3548.88] Curry: all click on the link that i've put in the um chat you will see the 1950s skew planer antenna
[3556.48] AndyRC: i kind of feel like i kind of feel like waynes turned into one of those people in the comment
[3563.68] AndyRC: section on a youtube video where it doesn't matter but i have to be right but it's eating
[3568.72] Curry: away at me now and every time someone says slightly the you know if you just listen to
[3573.28] Curry: a bunch of people talk about things that you know you know about and they don't and they
[3577.68] Curry: keep saying it wrong every moment and you start every time they say you say the right word and
[3582.72] Curry: then it gets louder and eventually you have to go over there and start interrupting them and
[3586.4] AndyRC: shake them and maybe it's just me i kind of feel like this is a conversation to your therapist
[3591.68] AndyRC: right now rather than people you know you know i've kind of it kind of like like explaining
[3597.52] AndyRC: something to me that you need to get off your chest certain things eat away at me and they must
[3602.32] Curry: be put right we we can't let people get it wrong people cannot be wrong on the internet because
[3608.56] AndyRC: that never happened we're putting them right one one person at a time i think i think as well though
[3617.04] AndyRC: you know i i get that as well because um quite often i'll have made a video and you know when
[3622.8] AndyRC: you're just talking you'll just say something and you can't unsay it but you know it's wrong in your
[3628.08] AndyRC: video i absolutely hate that and you've probably had that before and you're like you can't cut it
[3633.76] AndyRC: because it just wouldn't make sense if you if you cut it and stuff so it's i think it's fun in fact
[3640.96] AndyRC: joshua bardwell taught me this he said that you should make a mistake in every video on purpose
[3647.04] AndyRC: because then people will go crazy correcting you but it will give you the views of the exposure
[3654.48] Tony: we should have 10 billion subscribers that is true tony they can't even spell the thing exactly
[3669.1] Tony: this is all like me and jack talk off air and go let's spell it wrong to get the viewers
[3677.98] Curry: behind the scenes we have these special meetings where we're very cerebral and we talk about how
[3683.5] Curry: how we're going to act stupid all the way through like we don't know what we're talking about
[3687.82] Jack: really we know everything you know tony's like oh do you reckon i would get high again if i'd
[3696.3] Jack: like made a like you know coax your reflector shield or something and i'm like no tony you
[3703.9] Jack: can't let them know that you know what that is oh um last week we talked a little bit about the
[3714.62] AndyRC: x light and someone said it if i was going to be getting one and i wasn't sure but i am going to
[3720.7] AndyRC: be sent the x light so i can announce that on on here and you know i'm not i'm i know that i'm not
[3727.82] AndyRC: a big fan of the small transmitters but i have a lot of requests and somebody said i'll send you
[3732.86] AndyRC: one so i'm gonna be checking that out why are you doing jack got no idea mate how do we know
[3742.06] Jack: uh anyway um just before i i thought about doing some new segments to the show and i thought of
[3751.26] Jack: this new segment it's called andy ask me you're northern aren't you and it's where i ask you a
[3758.3] Jack: northern staneword and you've got to try and explain what it is go on man what is a tea cake
[3765.66] AndyRC: like a tea cake it's just a tea cake it's just a muffin it's me i don't know is that i don't know
[3781.1] Tony: why would it be called a muffin why would it have two names i have no idea i think first of all we
[3786.38] AndyRC: should discuss what is a tea is it a drink or is it a meal that's the next week that's next week
[3795.66] AndyRC: because i need one a week up here tea time is you know it's time for food you know
[3802.22] AndyRC: up there a t-shirt is a bloody jacket down here isn't it i thought you're gonna ask me what docking
[3807.18] Tony: was that's that's my more sort of a thing that i can and that is the end of the show thank you
[3815.82] Jack: thank you you've been listening to let's throw now you've been joined by andy rc the dot king
[3820.78] AndyRC: good night everybody do not google that or do you have a guest menastasi thank you very much good
[3827.5] Jack: night the uh the doc uh tony module and the doc e jack we'll get into that uh curry kitten
[3841.02] Curry: remember correct it it's not cloverleaf it's a skew planer
[3844.94] Tony: you know i'm gonna just call it a go leaf just wind you up now and i've been brightened to our
[3851.34] Jack: flight big massive shout out to the people that support us on patreon our latest donator is falling
[3857.18] Jack: with style i believe green patches mikey dread zero fpv uh gav's just uh gav says it's a urinal cake
[3869.66] Jack: sorry um steve gatlin uh yeah loads of you guys if you can please just spare a dollar or two it
[3881.94] Jack: helps keep the show afloat and makes frank a lot less stressed out because he's like if there's a
[3888.02] Jack: problem he can he can actually do something about it uh thank you and good night richard warrick