=== Let's Drone Out — Episode 153 === Title: Chad Nowak it will be held against you, if Tony gets existed that is Recorded: 2018-08-02 Hosts: Andy, Jack "Brightontillifly" Nash, Tony "TheTonstar1" Marchant, Wayne "CurryKitten" Andrews, Andrew "Frank" Hyams Guest(s): Chad "finalglideaus" Nowak Total audience: 3,155 Platforms: YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rB4_OgrVOQ); SoundCloud (http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/feeds.soundcloud.com/stream/490958889-letsdroneout-chad-nowak-it-will-be-held-against-you-if-tony-gets-existed-that-is.m4a) ===================================== [0.0] Jack: Hello and welcome to another episode of Let's Drone Out. [9.84] Jack: Let's Drone Out! [12.08] Jack: What he said. [13.04] Jack: Right, hello and welcome to Let's Drone Out. [15.04] Jack: Tonight we're joined by Andrew slash Frank. [17.2] Jack: Hello. [19.04] Jack: Uh, who's next? Andy R.C.? [21.76] AndyRC: Good evening, everyone. [24.24] Jack: Oh, our good friend, Final Glide Oz, with Chad Nowick. [28.72] AndyRC: Hello. [30.8] Jack: We're joined by my little Tony. [34.4] Tony: Who? [35.6] Tony: Who? Best friends now, Curry Kitten. [38.48] Jack: Not in the mood today, by the way, guys. [40.4] Jack: I've got it in Facebook. [41.6] Jack: He's not in the mood. [42.72] Jack: Do not take the piss out of Tony. [45.44] Jack: Thank God I managed to single Entendre the title for tonight's show. [51.6] Jack: So Tony doesn't understand it. [53.36] Jack: So it was able to fly under the Tony radar. [57.52] Tony: I think it's just your dyslexia and spelling. [61.28] Jack: Why was it spelled incorrectly? [63.6] SPEAKER_04: I think it might be. [65.6] SPEAKER_04: Frank, is it spelled wrong? [67.76] SPEAKER_04: Don't know how I haven't looked at it. [69.28] Jack: I asked you. [71.76] Jack: I asked you for spellings. [73.52] AndyRC: Looks okay for me. [75.44] Jack: And my number one favorite person, my Tony replacement, Curry Kitten. [80.32] Curry: Hello. [81.2] Curry: No hard feelings, Tony. [82.48] Curry: I'm number one. [84.16] AndyRC: A Tony replacement would be no good, though, because you'd have to hate him. [89.68] Jack: I don't actually hate Tony. [91.76] Tony: Oh, best friend. [93.52] Jack: Shut up, Tony. [95.84] Tony: Okay. [97.92] Jack: He's not in the mood. [100.08] Jack: So how's Joker treating you, Tony? [102.72] Tony: Better than you ever did. [105.04] Jack: Oh, why is he fixing all your stuff and everything? [107.92] Tony: Yep, don't need you anymore. [109.28] Tony: You're at back of the queue. [112.98] Curry: So then you got weird. [115.22] Curry: It's already got weird. [116.5] Curry: Just saying. [118.66] Chad N: It's starting to sound extremely British. [122.66] Chad N: Cup of tea. [124.34] Jack: Oh my God. [127.23] Jack: Frank, do you want to set us off? [128.99] Jack: Why are you wearing a polo shirt, Frank? [131.23] SPEAKER_04: It's not a polo shirt. [132.27] Jack: It's not a polo shirt. [134.35] SPEAKER_04: Why are you wearing a shirt? [135.79] SPEAKER_04: Because I go to work sometimes. [138.11] Jack: This is let's try it out. [139.31] Jack: You can't look that small. [140.75] Jack: So you have to dress posh to go to work. [143.39] SPEAKER_04: Oh, I don't have to, but it's. [145.47] Curry: Oh, you like to just set an example for the others. [148.11] SPEAKER_04: Yeah, exactly. [149.23] AndyRC: There is so much body shaming that goes on this show. [153.31] AndyRC: I just. [155.31] Jack: Hey, we've got an old host in the show, man. [161.25] Jack: Clint, Clint's here. [163.49] Jack: In the chat. [164.77] Jack: Yeah, man. [165.41] Jack: Hey, Clint. [165.97] Jack: How are you doing, man? [166.85] Jack: I try and message you now and again. [169.09] Jack: You just ignore me. [171.01] Jack: Well, I upset you. [171.97] Jack: Probably best. [173.25] Chad N: And a quick shout out to the chat group to say hi. [176.37] Chad N: That's easier than just typing hi a million times to all the people [180.05] Chad N: that have individually said hi to me. [183.01] Chad N: Indeed it is. [184.21] Chad N: Because I'm lazy. [186.45] Jack: What were we arguing about before the show started? [189.25] Jack: Oh yeah, me convincing the world that Andy works for Fat Shark. [194.77] AndyRC: Yeah, somebody has already said in the comments. [197.49] Curry: No, but it's fired. [199.33] Curry: Turns out he doesn't work for Fat Shark. [200.85] Curry: He works for Amway. [202.21] Curry: We just had it just a little bit off. [205.41] Chad N: But Fat Shark is trying to hustle him because he's such a good worker. [209.49] Chad N: They're trying to get him into Fat Shark. [212.05] Chad N: I remember last time I spoke to Greg and he was actually talking about Andy. [217.09] Chad N: I see I actually gave you a good rap. [219.41] Chad N: So if you get a decent wage, it's probably because of me. [223.09] Chad N: So just final. [225.89] AndyRC: Now that Chad's in on it, I have no chance of getting ready there. [230.37] AndyRC: Absolutely. [231.09] AndyRC: Can I just start? [231.81] AndyRC: Okay. [234.53] AndyRC: Why is it okay to body shame sharks? [238.05] AndyRC: Let's talk about that. [240.53] AndyRC: That's going to take a while for that to sink in. [244.21] AndyRC: Yeah, it's gone over my head. [245.89] AndyRC: Body shame in sharks. [248.37] AndyRC: I don't think it's okay. [249.49] Jack: Oh God, he's so woke. [255.73] Curry: I'm lost. [256.61] AndyRC: If that was anything other than sharks. [258.69] SPEAKER_04: Have we ever asked anyone from Fat Shark, why are they called Fat Shark? [263.57] AndyRC: I'm standing up for the sharks, the shark community. [267.17] Chad N: Do I message wrong now? [270.05] Chad N: I've already asked Greg that question. [271.89] Chad N: What's the answer? [274.86] Chad N: Because it was just an unusual name. [276.54] Chad N: It was the first thing that he came up with and it sounded cool. [279.42] Chad N: It does sound cool. [280.54] Tony: It does. [281.98] Chad N: There's no real specific meaning behind it. [286.7] Chad N: If you've met Greg and know him well, then it kind of suits his personality. [291.66] Chad N: It was kind of like, oh, we need a company. [293.5] Chad N: What are we going to call it? [295.18] Chad N: Fat Shark. [295.9] Chad N: That's cool. [297.58] AndyRC: It should begin with a P. [299.1] AndyRC: They're the fat. [300.22] AndyRC: This is the social justice warrior in me. [306.14] Chad N: See, this is why Fat Shark wants to hire you because you can be their media marketing manager [312.38] Chad N: and so forth because you know what's hip. [314.78] Chad N: You know what the kids want. [315.9] Chad N: There you go. [316.46] Curry: Should you put a Z at the end as well? [318.94] Curry: And should it be Fat Shark's? [321.66] Curry: Yeah, yes. [323.02] Curry: Yeah, and some gang signs. [326.86] Tony: What's the brighter one? [332.14] Jack: I don't know whether that actually came out. [335.74] Tony: See if you can do it again. [337.02] Tony: You need to hum while doing it, Jack. [341.26] Tony: What does that even say? [344.78] AndyRC: I think Grant does a great job, anyways, of the marketing and stuff over there. [351.74] AndyRC: Sort of not needed much, Jack. [356.77] Jack: Final Glide Oz, what's it like now that you've left the wing of Rotoraya? [364.13] Jack: Are you having fun? [366.21] Jack: Are you enjoying being persecuted by the Australians? [369.65] Jack: Are you on the run? [370.69] Jack: Is that why you're in America again? [373.17] Chad N: All of the above. [375.01] Chad N: My life is always interesting, scary, annoying at various points in time. [384.61] Chad N: I guess if I could answer that in a serious manner, [388.93] Chad N: in a way it's good to come down off the pedestal and get back to reality. [394.61] Chad N: So I had about two years of just complete crazy traveling, [400.69] Chad N: which kind of looked like it was all like the coolest thing on the Earth [404.45] Chad N: and if you only watch the videos and take everything into account there, [408.05] Chad N: that life was grand and all that stuff. [410.29] Chad N: I had some amazing adventures and I wouldn't change it for the world. [416.05] Chad N: If anyone's actually lived that kind of lifestyle, [419.41] Chad N: I know when I speak to people like that, they go, [422.37] Chad N: yeah, you can only live that kind of lifestyle for so long [425.41] Chad N: before you go a little stir crazy and you have to get back to reality. [429.73] Chad N: Especially considering the fact that I wasn't making money. [433.25] Chad N: I was literally just scraping by, trying to get making ends meet. [440.93] Chad N: It was kind of like my midlife crisis where I'm like, [445.97] Chad N: off I go and I'm just going to throw everything up in the air [449.97] Chad N: and just go and find myself. [452.69] Chad N: I guess I found myself doing that and I learned a lot about myself [456.05] Chad N: and learned a lot about life. [457.97] Chad N: Things have certainly calmed down for me [462.45] Chad N: and I'm plowing a new chapter in my life in different directions. [467.81] Chad N: It's one of those things. [470.85] Chad N: Everything in life, I'm not going to say happens for a reason, [474.77] Chad N: but whatever happens in your life, good or bad, [478.61] Chad N: you always get some good out of it. [480.37] Chad N: You get some bad out of it and you learn from something. [482.69] Chad N: So everything that happens allows you to grow as a person. [486.77] Chad N: I could sit there and bitch about the bad times, [488.69] Chad N: but there was also good times as well. [491.81] Chad N: All that sort of stuff needs to be taken into account. [495.81] Chad N: I'm more of a whole person. [497.33] Chad N: I understand myself better and I'm sort of moving on with my life. [503.09] Chad N: But that said, I still work with the right of right guys. [506.29] Chad N: Me and Tommy are still amazing mates [509.09] Chad N: and managed to bury the hatchet with steel [511.89] Chad N: and we still chat often, lots of stuff. [514.69] Chad N: And Carlos is a real busy guy, so I don't speak to him that often. [518.53] Chad N: But when I come over to LA, I try to catch up with him. [523.73] Chad N: So the OG crew of Roto Riot still get along with those guys. [530.53] Chad N: Carlos and Tommy got up most amount of respect for those guys. [536.77] Chad N: And when I say, oh, I left Roto Riot, people must think, [541.81] Chad N: oh, well, you guys must want to punch each other up and stuff. [545.25] Chad N: It's not that. [546.05] Chad N: It's more the case that Roto Riot went in a direction [549.89] Chad N: that I didn't necessarily agree with [551.89] Chad N: and didn't feel that I was a part of. [553.25] Chad N: So you go in your own different direction. [554.85] Chad N: And that doesn't mean that I'm never going to work with them again. [558.21] Chad N: So I've been on the Roto Riot show recently. [561.17] Chad N: On my last trip, I was here and I reached out to Capra [563.89] Chad N: and said, hey, I'm going to be in town. [565.25] Chad N: Do you want to do some filming? [566.37] Chad N: We found an idea for some filming that we could do [569.33] Chad N: that would benefit us both. [571.41] Chad N: And so I'm sure in the future, [574.29] Chad N: I'll be on Roto Riot again if the opportunity presents itself. [578.21] Chad N: So yeah, I think a lot of people put a lot more [584.53] Chad N: sort of like hype on the situation than there just is. [587.73] Chad N: Because anyone who's in the spotlight, [589.73] Chad N: everyone goes all nuts and wants to get all excited about something. [592.29] Chad N: And unfortunately, the truth is a lot more boring [596.69] Chad N: than the fantasy that a lot of people play out. [599.25] AndyRC: Yeah, it kind of seems like Roto Riot is less about members now [606.45] AndyRC: and more about sort of like the content. [609.57] AndyRC: Because like we see Josh in quite a lot of videos [613.01] AndyRC: and you saw what you did there. [615.97] AndyRC: Was it the reverb build that you did fairly recently? [618.85] AndyRC: Yeah, I watched that one. [619.97] AndyRC: That was cool. [621.01] AndyRC: So and Zoe, I noticed has been on there as well. [624.29] AndyRC: So I think perhaps that's a better way [627.73] AndyRC: of just throwing out the community more, [630.77] AndyRC: rather than saying these are the set members. [632.93] AndyRC: And then it just allows anyone to sort of shine in an episode. [638.21] AndyRC: Is that the direction they're going? [640.61] Chad N: Well, I don't know. [641.33] Chad N: Because I'm not involved in their team meetings and so forth. [644.37] Chad N: Like I don't get involved in that at all. [646.69] Chad N: So I'm completely separate. [647.97] Chad N: So I'm about as part of Roto Riot as you guys are these days, [651.97] Chad N: except that I just know the guys a bit more personally [654.77] Chad N: than most other people. [657.33] Chad N: So I couldn't tell you exactly what. [659.09] Chad N: The best way that you could get that answer [661.41] Chad N: is to put that on the Roto Riot social media groups [664.21] Chad N: and ask them directly. [666.13] Chad N: And at the end of the day, [667.33] Chad N: Capra's got to go in a direction [668.77] Chad N: that's going to make his business money. [670.53] Chad N: So he found a group of pilots that worked well together, [673.89] Chad N: that had a bit of pizzazz and worked well on screen and so forth. [677.73] Chad N: And when those pilots sort of segmented, [681.01] Chad N: I think he lost that. [682.29] Chad N: So he's looking for the next thing that works. [685.01] Chad N: And maybe that's community. [686.53] Chad N: And you raise a good point that it's more about the community [689.17] Chad N: rather than the pilots on there. [690.93] Chad N: And Roto Riot's always been a community-based thing. [693.49] Chad N: So it kind of makes sense. [695.41] Chad N: But I mean, if he's got a group of pilots [697.57] Chad N: which aren't getting the as favorable return [703.81] Chad N: as what they were previously, [706.05] Chad N: then OK, go for the community aspect. [708.21] Chad N: I'm not saying that's what they did. [709.41] Chad N: But I mean, that's the reality of it. [711.25] Chad N: At the end of the day, he's a business. [712.85] Chad N: He's got to make money. [713.89] Chad N: And he's got to do what he's got to do [715.25] Chad N: to get the best following from the community. [717.89] Chad N: And it looks like that's the direction they're going. [722.93] Jack: You're right, Andrew. [725.33] Jack: My purpose in life is meaningless now. [728.69] Jack: It's added layers to my depression now. [733.17] Jack: That's it. [733.73] Jack: I am as much good as that shell that Andy R.C. originally got. [740.05] AndyRC: Oh, Jesus, not this again. [742.29] Jack: I mean, replacing... [743.33] SPEAKER_04: There's some context on this, [744.37] SPEAKER_04: because this is completely out of the blue [745.81] SPEAKER_04: for anyone that wasn't following the chat. [749.73] Jack: They should follow the chat. [751.65] SPEAKER_04: Yeah, but they can't if they're listening to the podcast. [754.29] AndyRC: I'm not following the chat, [755.41] AndyRC: so I don't know what's happening either. [758.69] SPEAKER_04: Jack and Joker were arguing about being Tony's best friend. [768.13] Jack: I call Joker a friend-stealer. [770.21] AndyRC: What about me? [771.01] AndyRC: I thought I was Tony's best friend. [772.77] Tony: Is that exactly Andy? [774.29] Tony: On the side, you love him. [775.09] Tony: That's the funny thing is, [776.53] Tony: you are my best friend and they're not. [779.97] Jack: Who spoke to Tony last on the phone out of a lot of us? [785.25] Tony: Me. [785.81] Tony: Andy, actually. [787.17] Tony: Me. [787.65] Tony: Oh, I see. [790.93] AndyRC: Right, that's it. [793.49] AndyRC: He's gone. [794.53] AndyRC: Jack's gone. [795.65] AndyRC: Okay, I want to... [796.69] AndyRC: One thing I want to ask Chad about is sort of talking about... [800.61] AndyRC: Show us your dog. [804.29] AndyRC: I was going to ask a serious question. [806.69] AndyRC: I wanted to ask about the reverb, [810.85] AndyRC: because anywhere I go, me talk with anyone, [813.73] AndyRC: just everyone's got the reverb, [815.25] AndyRC: so that must have been a good success for you. [818.85] AndyRC: Is that sort of the direction that you're looking at [821.17] AndyRC: and developing frames and products and stuff? [825.97] Jack: Andy, I see now works for reverb. [828.53] Jack: You don't even need the wheel on that. [831.33] Chad N: Andy, I see now works for Impulse RC customer support. [835.01] Chad N: He's going to take over William's position and get a pay raise. [839.57] AndyRC: That would be awesome, actually. [842.37] AndyRC: That would be cool. [844.21] Chad N: So, yeah, I guess to answer your question, [847.33] Chad N: the reverb, I guess, has been a success. [852.05] Chad N: I guess what you define as a success is down to the individual person, [857.09] Chad N: but I would certainly consider it a success. [864.53] Chad N: I was asked a year, a year and a half ago by Chad Kappa, [871.89] Chad N: you should design a new frame. [873.09] Chad N: What would you do different on the Alien? [874.85] Chad N: And my response backward then was, [878.37] Chad N: nothing, I love everything about it. [880.45] Chad N: And as our flying styles and design processes [884.77] Chad N: and electronics slowly moved on, [888.77] Chad N: that whole mindset of mine changed from [891.25] Chad N: there's nothing I'd changed to, [893.01] Chad N: I tweaked this or I tweaked that. [895.01] Chad N: And it started off as a let's make an alien too. [899.65] Chad N: And the quicker I, the more I looked at it, [901.89] Chad N: the more I realized I'm changing so much stuff [905.41] Chad N: that it's kind of like getting a car [907.73] Chad N: and taking all the panels off down to the bare chassis. [910.77] Chad N: And then changing the chassis, [912.53] Chad N: you go, why don't you just start from scratch [913.97] Chad N: because you don't have as many limitations. [915.97] Chad N: It means that it won't be as interchangeable with the alien, [919.97] Chad N: but it never will be with what direction we're going. [922.45] Chad N: So I started off with that because I'm like, [924.61] Chad N: okay, I really want to do it. [925.81] Chad N: This is, I really love the whole DNA of the alien and so forth. [931.81] Chad N: But I want to make improvements for modern day quads [936.29] Chad N: that the alien didn't really bring. [939.25] Chad N: And I also wanted to address things of, [942.29] Chad N: if you don't listen to the customer base [944.61] Chad N: about what they really want [945.97] Chad N: and what they define as important, [948.29] Chad N: then you're going to lose that as a company. [951.09] Chad N: And one of them was price, [952.93] Chad N: where rightly or wrongly, [956.69] Chad N: the customer base of FPV have defined, [959.41] Chad N: this is what we consider a realistic area for high end frames. [964.29] Chad N: And then you've got the guys who likes the clones [966.05] Chad N: and they'll go, this is what we want down here. [967.81] Chad N: And so I said to Sean, [969.49] Chad N: this is what I'm hoping to achieve, [971.09] Chad N: but at the same time, [973.09] Chad N: one of the big focuses is I want to get the price down. [976.85] Chad N: And this was going like early 2017 [981.09] Chad N: when I first started talking to Sean about this. [983.57] Chad N: I said, I want to get the price down. [985.09] Chad N: And if it means that we cut our profit margins [989.17] Chad N: to enable that, then so be it. [991.41] Chad N: Because the whole idea was if we can bring the price down, [993.97] Chad N: you'll hopefully sell more. [996.21] Chad N: Therefore, your profit will end at your actual profit [998.85] Chad N: will kind of be the same. [1000.77] Chad N: So we spent a lot of time on bringing that price down [1003.81] Chad N: with the idea that, OK, we can't compete with the clones. [1007.01] Chad N: So there's no point in trying to compete with the clones. [1009.73] Chad N: But what you can do is you can get a premium price frame [1013.33] Chad N: and bring the price down far enough [1015.41] Chad N: that you might get a small group of those clone lovers [1017.89] Chad N: to go, well, a little bit more and I can get a premium frame. [1020.85] Chad N: So that way you keep the premium customers happy [1023.81] Chad N: while saying that, well, we're getting a better price, [1025.81] Chad N: making them even happier. [1027.01] Chad N: And you get a couple of the guys [1028.61] Chad N: that would normally buy a clone and put them in there. [1031.01] Chad N: So that's kind of what we worked out. [1032.77] Chad N: And looking at the whole design philosophy [1037.41] Chad N: of going through this and what we're hoping to achieve, [1039.73] Chad N: I think it's a huge success. [1043.49] Chad N: It's doing a good job of supporting me financially. [1047.17] Chad N: And I've always been one that I've been very big on pilots [1052.05] Chad N: being open about how they make money. [1055.97] Chad N: It's like, you guys should buy this flight controller [1058.69] Chad N: because it's the best. [1059.73] Chad N: And you don't even know it, but behind their back, [1062.93] Chad N: your back, they're getting paid $0.10 for every board. [1066.69] Chad N: And all of a sudden, they go to a different flight controller [1068.93] Chad N: because they've found a flight controller [1071.81] Chad N: that they get a bigger profit margin. [1073.25] Chad N: And I know pilots, I don't want to name names, [1076.69] Chad N: but I know pilots that have asked certain companies, [1079.57] Chad N: I want to get paid money to support your frame. [1082.45] Chad N: And these companies have said, sorry, we don't do that. [1085.25] Chad N: And then two weeks later, [1086.29] Chad N: they've gone to a different frame company [1089.25] Chad N: because they offered them money [1091.25] Chad N: and then publicly go out and talk about, [1093.17] Chad N: oh, we've gone to this new frame. [1094.53] Chad N: And the frame that I left was designed badly. [1098.93] Chad N: So that's where I've gone to this new frame. [1100.85] Chad N: When you know in the background, [1102.13] Chad N: it's all because now they're getting money on this side. [1104.21] Chad N: So I hate that shit. [1105.65] Chad N: So yes, I'm making money on the reverb frame [1109.73] Chad N: and it's a reasonable amount, [1111.65] Chad N: but when I calculate my time to develop that frame, [1117.65] Chad N: I still haven't received the amount of money [1120.45] Chad N: in hours that I put into designing it, not getting paid. [1123.57] Chad N: I still haven't even made that back. [1126.93] Chad N: It's going to take well over a year [1128.45] Chad N: before I get the money back that I put into that. [1131.33] Chad N: Now, you could argue, well, I did it in my spare time [1133.49] Chad N: and so forth. [1134.37] Chad N: Yeah, but time is money. [1136.21] Chad N: And that's the way you have to look at this kind of thing [1138.21] Chad N: when you're doing this as a business. [1139.81] Chad N: So yeah, I'm certainly making money in that area. [1144.21] Chad N: And I would definitely consider it successful. [1149.97] Chad N: I always thought it was going to be successful [1152.13] Chad N: because I thought, first of all, we've got a good product, [1154.85] Chad N: something that I'm truly proud of at a price point [1157.17] Chad N: that the customers will like. [1158.77] Chad N: But I also knew, OK, it's got my name on it combined [1161.57] Chad N: with Impulse RC, which are two brands which are quite well [1165.89] Chad N: respected within the industry, especially Impulse RC, [1169.33] Chad N: because Impulse RC is not known as one of those hype companies. [1173.09] Chad N: Now, if you think about all of these companies out here [1175.81] Chad N: that make frames, and I'm not going to name names [1181.65] Chad N: of companies because I don't want to be looking [1183.65] Chad N: like I'm picking someone out. [1184.93] Chad N: But if you think about all these companies that make frames, [1187.49] Chad N: think about how many different frames they've made, [1189.73] Chad N: like 10, 15, 20 different designs since they've [1193.25] Chad N: been in business, or just keep on coming out with frames. [1196.29] Chad N: Now, here's an interesting fact that I think a lot of people [1199.09] Chad N: forget, Impulse RC have made four frames total. [1204.37] Chad N: Their first frame was the warp quad, which wasn't even FPV. [1206.93] Chad N: They don't even sell that anymore. [1208.29] Chad N: So if you only include FPV frames, there's the Alien, [1212.21] Chad N: the Helix, and the Reverb. [1214.37] Chad N: And they're one of the biggest companies and most respected [1216.77] Chad N: companies out there after only making three frames. [1219.49] Chad N: And this is one of the reasons why I wanted to work with Impulse [1222.53] Chad N: is because they're not out there with chucking stuff out there. [1225.57] Chad N: They make stuff, and it sells, and it continues [1228.21] Chad N: to sell, and the product speaks for itself. [1231.41] AndyRC: Sorry to interrupt. [1232.21] AndyRC: We've got, I think we've got a noise on the stream, have we, guys? [1235.41] AndyRC: Can you all confirm we've got like, I think we've got a wine [1238.61] AndyRC: coming from down there, which is not my voice. [1243.01] AndyRC: It's not late. [1243.97] AndyRC: That's evident. [1245.01] AndyRC: I think that's, I think it's gone. [1247.25] AndyRC: Right. [1247.73] AndyRC: Sorry to interrupt, Chad. [1249.33] AndyRC: Yeah, I think it has been a success just because, as I say, [1252.61] AndyRC: anywhere I go, everyone's got a Reverb. [1255.49] AndyRC: And as you say it, I think the Alien's prize was always [1260.05] AndyRC: sort of the issue. [1260.77] AndyRC: So I think it has been a success in that sense [1263.65] AndyRC: that it's brought the prize down, and it's sort of updated, [1267.01] AndyRC: and it's a little bit lighter as well, isn't it, I think, [1269.17] AndyRC: than the original. [1270.61] AndyRC: Oh, we've lost up Chad's audio, I think. [1272.93] Tony: It was Chad's squeaking. [1274.05] Tony: Okay. [1275.09] AndyRC: Okay, is that better? [1275.97] AndyRC: We got it, yeah. [1277.09] Jack: That's better. [1277.65] Jack: Okay, yeah. [1278.29] Jack: I thought it was a paper shredder. [1280.69] Chad N: It sounded like that, yeah. [1282.61] Chad N: Yeah, no, I'm pretty happy with how it went. [1287.89] Chad N: And I mean, whether it's a success or not, financially, [1294.37] Chad N: regardless, I'm just happy to see out there people enjoying it [1298.05] Chad N: and being happy with the product that I was very deeply involved [1304.53] Chad N: with. [1304.77] Chad N: So it's kind of like that satisfying thing. [1306.53] Chad N: And that's the big thing for me. [1308.85] Chad N: This is why I'll never be rich, because I [1311.97] Chad N: never do things for business reasons and financial reasons. [1314.61] Chad N: I do it because I'm passionate about it. [1316.37] Chad N: So I helped Zong to create the V1S line of props [1320.53] Chad N: because I was sick and tired of the crappy props [1323.17] Chad N: that we had out there. [1324.77] Chad N: And I've made very little money. [1326.37] Chad N: Thank you for that. [1329.17] Chad N: But the V1S prop was probably arguably the whole range [1332.85] Chad N: is probably arguably the most popular prop out there. [1338.53] Chad N: I've spent a lot of time developing stuff [1343.57] Chad N: with Flyduino for the KISS stuff with Felix [1347.17] Chad N: because I'm passionate about it. [1348.77] Chad N: I've never been paid a cent. [1350.05] Chad N: I've actually knocked back money of offers for them [1352.61] Chad N: to pay me money. [1354.53] Chad N: And what I've received is a little bit of electronics, [1357.01] Chad N: which when you look at the cost price of those electronics [1359.97] Chad N: is loose change. [1363.01] Chad N: And I've worked with ImmersionRC and developed [1366.29] Chad N: the Vortex 230 Mojo, which I mean, it wasn't really [1369.49] Chad N: a success in terms of sales. [1371.41] Chad N: But I think that was more of an advertising thing. [1373.17] Chad N: But anyone who flies that will agree that it's easily [1376.53] Chad N: one of the best ready to fly quads out there. [1378.29] Chad N: And then there's the Reverb. [1379.97] Chad N: And they had a hand in working with the guys [1381.73] Chad N: with the Alien as well. [1382.85] Jack: So the amount of people with the Mojo [1387.49] Jack: who have problems with it, though, it freaks out. [1392.13] Jack: Have you not heard that? [1393.49] AndyRC: I've not heard that. [1394.13] AndyRC: I haven't quite heard that one. [1396.21] AndyRC: I haven't heard that. [1397.49] Curry: I've got one. [1398.05] Curry: And not to be a fanboy. [1399.09] Curry: I'm using Chad's profile, which I really like, actually. [1402.21] Curry: It's really smooth. [1403.73] Curry: Oh, was it the Mojito? [1405.41] AndyRC: Who knew best friend? [1407.57] AndyRC: Jack, are you giving us fake news, Jack? [1410.37] Chad N: Yeah, fake news, Jack. [1413.33] Chad N: He's trolling again. [1415.01] Chad N: Sorry. [1415.97] Chad N: I'll shut my mouth. [1417.57] Chad N: And this has been a very long answer [1419.49] Chad N: to a pretty simple question. [1420.85] Chad N: So I apologize for that. [1421.97] Chad N: That's fine. [1422.61] AndyRC: That's interesting. [1423.65] Chad N: But to answer your question about where [1426.93] Chad N: I'm going next on stuff and getting into products [1429.73] Chad N: and stuff, I'll be very clear that my direction is not [1434.61] Chad N: within the hobbyist side of things. [1436.69] Chad N: I'm still working in there. [1438.53] Chad N: And I will still do things in there. [1441.65] Chad N: But a lot of this, most of the work [1444.93] Chad N: that I get, I've got a Patreon group of people [1448.29] Chad N: which pay me a small amount of money, [1451.49] Chad N: which I'm very thankful for, which [1452.85] Chad N: helps to pay for the stuff that I buy. [1456.85] Chad N: But certainly in terms of being a pilot [1460.61] Chad N: and doing a good job of living off this, [1465.41] Chad N: it's very hard to do, period. [1469.81] Chad N: But in my opinion, it's very hard to do [1472.77] Chad N: while keeping the moral set that I have. [1476.05] Chad N: I'm not someone to stick my name on everything [1478.93] Chad N: and go, hey, this is the best thing you should buy it. [1482.13] Chad N: I don't want to name names, but I see a lot of pilots doing that. [1486.69] Chad N: And that's not me. [1489.81] Chad N: If that's them, that's great. [1491.17] Chad N: But I want to be extremely passionate about the products [1493.57] Chad N: that I bring out. [1494.77] Chad N: And I don't want to push it like a hooker. [1499.73] Chad N: That's just not me. [1501.33] Chad N: The good product will sell itself. [1503.33] Chad N: And in my mind, in the last 15 months, technology has not... [1509.89] Chad N: Maybe in the last two years, everything is plateaued. [1514.37] Chad N: So unless I can bring out something [1516.29] Chad N: that's just genuinely a step above, [1518.45] Chad N: I just don't see the point. [1520.13] Chad N: What I'm seeing is a lot of... [1522.29] Chad N: We went through that hype craze [1523.41] Chad N: where everyone was bringing out something and hyping it up. [1525.17] Chad N: And everyone was getting super excited about it. [1527.01] Chad N: Then two months later, everyone was over it. [1528.93] Chad N: And now you see everyone's pissed off at a new product [1531.57] Chad N: because they're calling everything hype [1533.89] Chad N: because they're so jaded and burned [1535.49] Chad N: by all the hype products that have come out [1537.65] Chad N: that they're really annoyed and pissed off with it. [1540.53] Chad N: And here's the problem as a developer of products. [1544.37] Chad N: So let's say I go and work with Company X [1547.73] Chad N: to bring out a new flight controller [1549.49] Chad N: or a new motor or something like that. [1551.73] Chad N: What's going to happen with me and the company [1553.81] Chad N: is they're going to develop it. [1555.65] Chad N: I'm not going to have any putting my money in it. [1557.73] Chad N: But what's going to happen [1558.93] Chad N: is I'm going to get a percentage of the sales. [1560.93] Chad N: That's how it's going to work. [1561.89] Chad N: So if it sells good, I'm going to get money. [1564.37] Chad N: If it sells bad, I'm not going to get much money. [1566.29] Chad N: And if people lose interest over it fairly quickly, [1569.97] Chad N: it's going to be this quick little bump [1571.09] Chad N: and then you're not going to get any more money out of it. [1572.61] Chad N: Now, to develop a product is going to take X amount of time. [1578.69] Chad N: And the problem here is let's say I develop a motor. [1582.69] Chad N: I don't know how I develop a motor [1584.13] Chad N: because all the motors out there at the moment [1585.81] Chad N: are the fucking same. [1587.41] Chad N: There's no big performance increase. [1589.41] Chad N: You've just got ones that have got different power curves [1591.81] Chad N: and different winds. [1592.77] Chad N: So there's different motors suited [1594.61] Chad N: to different flying techniques and styles and so forth. [1597.57] Chad N: But there is no better motor out there. [1601.41] Chad N: So let's say I develop a new motor [1604.53] Chad N: that's got some new kind of magnet [1606.77] Chad N: and gives 5% more performance. [1608.85] Chad N: Awesome. I go and do this. [1610.85] Chad N: And then a month later, China or a competing company [1615.09] Chad N: or whatever gets those same magnets. [1616.69] Chad N: They put it in there. [1617.81] Chad N: They make exactly the same motor as me, [1620.21] Chad N: but they draw flames on the bell. [1625.25] Chad N: And you see this happen all the time. [1626.93] Chad N: What invariably happens is they create all this bullshit hype. [1630.69] Chad N: And then the original motor all of a sudden [1632.69] Chad N: is no longer interesting. [1633.89] Chad N: And people want that motor because it's got flames on it. [1636.85] Chad N: And the six months worth of work that you put into there [1639.81] Chad N: is over within a month. [1643.09] Chad N: And you can only do that so many times before you go. [1646.45] Chad N: How many times do I want to punch a brick wall [1649.49] Chad N: before I start saying, that hurts. [1651.49] Chad N: I don't want to do that anymore. [1653.25] Chad N: So then you've got all these companies now [1656.37] Chad N: that are not willing to put a lot of R&D in it [1658.77] Chad N: because what's the point? [1659.89] Chad N: Because it just gets killed by something else [1662.37] Chad N: or the Chinese cloners. [1663.81] Chad N: So they go, we're not going to put R&D in it. [1665.33] Chad N: So then they sugarcoat old shit to make it look new, [1669.89] Chad N: which is, like I've said, I'm not interested in. [1672.77] Chad N: And you're kind of like at the point where you- [1674.61] Jack: Are you talking about black bells again? [1680.05] Chad N: It's just one of those areas where unless you're, [1682.69] Chad N: I don't want to say this because I get copped a lot [1685.09] Chad N: of flack from people when I say this, [1686.61] Chad N: unless you're willing to sell out and dance for the monkey, [1691.01] Chad N: it's very hard to make a living in here in this hobby, [1695.57] Chad N: making new products, especially considering, [1698.05] Chad N: like I've said, our technology is plateaued [1700.93] Chad N: and to get something new and very different [1703.49] Chad N: is almost impossible. [1705.81] Chad N: You have to reinvent the three-phase motor [1707.57] Chad N: to get something different than what we've got. [1710.37] Chad N: That's just what the way physics are. [1712.37] Chad N: I'm not saying things are not increasing, [1715.01] Chad N: but the increase in technology is incremental [1718.69] Chad N: where the price is exponentially more. [1721.41] Jack: Do you know what totally does me? [1723.17] Jack: Is like when they remove the bottom of the motor [1726.13] Jack: and then sell you plastic bits to put it back on. [1729.73] Jack: That really annoys me. [1733.25] Chad N: But I mean, what that's doing is that's catering [1735.97] Chad N: to people who are picky about certain things. [1738.13] Chad N: And if that works, then great. [1739.65] Chad N: But it's not increasing performance. [1743.17] Chad N: And people go, well, what it did was it lost one gram per motor. [1748.45] Chad N: So now it's four grams lighter. [1750.05] Chad N: And these are the same people that are also stating [1755.33] Chad N: that they can feel that one gram on each motor, [1757.33] Chad N: which is total bullshit. [1758.69] Chad N: But then they just go, hey, guess what? [1760.21] Chad N: Success is a new hype. [1761.33] Chad N: It's only 30 grams heavier for the battery. [1768.45] Tony: Anyone here actually hit that hype train yet? [1771.49] Chad N: Oh, I haven't. [1773.25] Chad N: I did a live feed and I got lots of all the success fanboys. [1779.17] Chad N: Oh, I got a lot of hate for it. [1780.29] Chad N: I just like, oh, I can't fucking deal with this. [1781.81] Chad N: So I just I turned it to be unlisted again. [1784.85] Chad N: But here is the facts. [1787.17] Chad N: And you don't need to go out and fly this to know this. [1793.09] Chad N: All you need to know is understand maths. [1796.85] Chad N: Okay. [1797.65] Chad N: So that's the checkout. [1799.81] Chad N: Well, I'm good at maths from a physics point, [1804.85] Chad N: basic physics point of view is success better. [1808.45] Chad N: Yes, it is. [1810.53] Chad N: It is. [1811.81] Chad N: But only by a couple of percent. [1814.53] Chad N: Okay, it is an improvement. [1816.85] Chad N: But it's only a small improvement. [1819.41] Chad N: You can do the numbers. [1820.85] Chad N: It's right there. [1822.69] Chad N: What limits you? [1825.49] Chad N: There are a number of things that can limit you. [1826.93] Chad N: One is price, which I won't go into right now. [1829.09] Chad N: But what limits you is as you increase the voltage, [1836.61] Chad N: but keep the watt hours the same and keep the KV the same, [1842.53] Chad N: everything else being equal. [1843.89] Chad N: And that's important. [1844.61] Chad N: I'm going to touch on that later on. [1846.29] Chad N: What you end up is you get an increase on talk [1848.69] Chad N: and you get an increase in efficiency. [1850.85] Chad N: There's a reason why your mains voltage is the voltage that it is. [1857.09] Chad N: There's just a reason for a lot of these things [1859.49] Chad N: and why the voltage changes. [1861.33] Chad N: It gets complicated. [1862.29] Chad N: But if you look at the numbers, you go higher in voltage, [1865.57] Chad N: the efficiency is better. [1867.73] Chad N: The problem then is what happens is, [1869.97] Chad N: and this is one of the many variables, [1871.97] Chad N: is that as you increase the cell count, [1876.05] Chad N: the packaging becomes more. [1878.13] Chad N: So you've got more cells and more packaging and so forth. [1881.97] Chad N: And people go, oh, yeah, but if you get a success, [1884.29] Chad N: the battery is heavier. [1885.33] Chad N: I'm talking if you keep everything consistent, [1887.65] Chad N: like watt hours. [1888.37] Chad N: I don't care about milliamp hours. [1889.73] Chad N: When you're changing the voltage, [1890.77] Chad N: you need to talk about watt hours. [1892.21] Chad N: You keep the watt hours the same. [1894.21] Chad N: What happens is the packaging becomes more and more and more. [1896.93] Chad N: And there becomes a point in time where the extra weight [1900.05] Chad N: outweighs the extra efficiency of which the efficiency is only a couple of percent. [1904.93] Chad N: And then it comes to a point where it's kind of like putting a bigger [1907.49] Chad N: and bigger and bigger and bigger battery capacity battery on there. [1910.13] Chad N: You get longer flight times and it gets so heavy [1912.37] Chad N: that the motors have to work so hard that your flight time drops off. [1915.33] Chad N: Now, where that point is in voltage, we don't know. [1918.37] Chad N: Now, for like the big 600, 700 size helicopters, that's about 14S. [1923.73] Chad N: And these guys have already gone through this. [1925.09] Chad N: They started off the electric helicopter craze at 3S [1928.21] Chad N: and they're at 14S. [1930.21] Chad N: Where that is for us, I don't know. [1933.49] Chad N: We need to test that out. [1934.85] Chad N: But going higher in voltage is more efficient. [1938.93] Chad N: But here's my biggest problems with it. [1943.17] Chad N: And one of the reasons why I think it hasn't taken off. [1945.57] Chad N: First of all, there's not as much choice out there for battery voltages [1951.73] Chad N: at that level for different pack sizes and motor KVs. [1955.65] Chad N: That's changing. [1957.01] Chad N: But here's the biggest problem. [1958.53] Chad N: Price. [1959.41] Chad N: When a battery is going to cost more than a 4S battery. [1964.05] Chad N: The hobbyists here, we're all a bunch of tired asses. [1965.97] Chad N: We don't like paying money. [1967.41] Chad N: So if you've got 20 packs of 4S's and then they go, [1969.97] Chad N: hey, let's join on the 6S hype craze. [1972.45] Chad N: All you've got to do is get rid of your 4S batteries and get 26S batteries. [1976.37] Chad N: Which, by the way, is going to cost more. [1978.21] Chad N: Yeah. [1978.53] Chad N: And so there's a lot of limitations in there. [1980.53] Chad N: I'm not saying it's not doable. [1981.73] Chad N: But a lot of people have been hesitant. [1983.09] Chad N: I think that's the reason why. [1984.37] Chad N: The other reason why is I don't think people truly understand [1988.53] Chad N: the benefits and how to change across where you're comparing apples with apples. [1995.17] Chad N: And this is where I think a lot of these tests, [1997.25] Chad N: like Joshua Bardwell did a test recently. [1999.81] Chad N: Steele did a test recently. [2001.57] Chad N: But they were loaded tests. [2004.05] Chad N: Reason being is they weren't comparing apples with apples. [2007.09] Chad N: So if you want to compare 4S with 6S, [2013.49] Chad N: then you have to compare the motor in the same state. [2016.13] Chad N: And you have to compare the battery in the same state. [2018.05] Chad N: So the motor needs to be spinning at the same RPM. [2021.49] Chad N: So forget about KV. [2022.61] Chad N: You want to have it spinning. [2023.65] Chad N: So higher voltage, for the same KV, it's going to spin higher. [2027.17] Chad N: So you want to bring the KV of the motor down [2030.13] Chad N: so that at the higher voltage it's going to spin the same RPM. [2034.13] Chad N: And that's very easily calculatable. [2036.69] Chad N: On top of that, when you're changing voltages, [2039.81] Chad N: you can't look at the capacity of the battery anymore [2042.29] Chad N: in terms of milliamp hours. [2043.41] Chad N: You have to look at in watt hours. [2045.01] Chad N: So you need to calculate the watt hours, your 4S battery, [2047.97] Chad N: and then use the same watt hour battery for your 6S battery. [2051.57] Chad N: So if you're bringing the KV of the motor down so it's the same RPM [2056.21] Chad N: and you're changing your battery to a 6S with the same watt hours, [2060.85] Chad N: then and only then are you comparing apples with apples. [2064.37] Chad N: Now, on my live feed, I did a quick calculation. [2067.33] Chad N: And from memory, if you're running, [2070.21] Chad N: I'm sorry if I'm getting this a little bit wrong, [2072.29] Chad N: but from memory, if you're running a 4S 1300 milliamp hour battery [2077.01] Chad N: with a 2400 KV motor, [2079.49] Chad N: then a 6S equivalent will be an 850 milliamp hour 6S pack [2085.49] Chad N: with a 1550 KV motor. [2091.25] Chad N: That is like for like both things with the same capacity [2095.25] Chad N: and the same RPM. [2097.57] Chad N: The problem is that what these pilots at what, [2100.61] Chad N: like the Joshua Bedwell test and the steel test [2104.69] Chad N: was they used a higher KV motor. [2106.53] Chad N: So they were saying, oh, it feels more, [2109.41] Chad N: feels more thrusty and floaty. [2110.77] Chad N: Well, of course it is because it's the same [2112.45] Chad N: as going from a 2400 KV 4S set up to a 2600 KV set up. [2116.77] Chad N: So that's where you get that floatier feeling from. [2119.57] Chad N: And oh, look, I'm getting an extra minute extra flight time. [2122.77] Chad N: Of course, because you almost added a third extra [2126.69] Chad N: of watt hour capacity to your battery [2129.33] Chad N: because you're using 1100 milliamp hours [2131.97] Chad N: instead of an 850 or 900 milliamp hour battery. [2134.93] Chad N: So that's why when you see these tests, [2138.29] Chad N: they're saying, oh, it feels floatier. [2140.21] Chad N: Because yeah, because you're not using the same RPM, [2143.41] Chad N: you're using a higher RPM. [2145.09] Chad N: So it's geared differently and it's flying longer [2148.21] Chad N: because you're using a bigger capacity battery. [2150.61] Chad N: And that also shows because you're now 30 or 40 grams heavier [2155.01] Chad N: than what you used to be. [2156.53] Chad N: Now, if that works for the person who's flying it [2158.77] Chad N: and they prefer that, then great. [2162.13] Chad N: I'm not gonna argue with that, [2163.33] Chad N: but that's not comparing apples with apples. [2165.17] Chad N: And like I said before, we're coming in from a community [2168.21] Chad N: where people were bitching about two grams [2170.21] Chad N: weight difference in motors. [2171.89] Chad N: And now 30 to 40 grams difference in a battery. [2176.45] Tony: Doesn't matter. [2177.65] Tony: Isn't it better for racing anyway more than freestyle? [2180.53] Tony: Because I know some people use it for freestyle [2182.93] Tony: and saying, oh, it's great and all that lot. [2185.17] Tony: I mean, I haven't jumped on the hype train [2187.57] Tony: and I don't think a lot of people are [2189.01] Tony: because the batteries are running a lot. [2191.81] Chad N: And it's not just down to racing. [2195.33] Chad N: Efficiency is efficiency. [2196.69] Chad N: Whether you're driving a car on the road [2198.93] Chad N: or driving a car on a racetrack, [2201.09] Chad N: getting better fuel efficiency is going to be [2204.13] Chad N: mean good things for you. [2205.57] Chad N: So it doesn't matter whether it's freestyle or racing. [2208.53] Chad N: Efficiency is efficiency. [2209.97] Chad N: And regardless of what people are doing [2212.93] Chad N: with their speed stuff, the reason for going to success [2216.77] Chad N: is because of efficiency at the end of the day. [2219.49] Chad N: That's why we do it. [2220.61] Chad N: Unfortunately, a lot of people have gone to success [2223.81] Chad N: because they want to go faster. [2224.93] Chad N: That's one way you can go faster, [2226.29] Chad N: but that's not the benefits of going to a higher voltage. [2231.73] Chad N: Yeah, it's a tricky one, isn't it? [2234.05] Chad N: So yeah, I would suggest to people, [2236.21] Chad N: if you want to try success, go and try it. [2240.21] Chad N: There is a benefit there. [2241.49] Chad N: The benefit is not as big as what people are stating. [2246.45] Chad N: There is a big benefit if you're willing [2248.29] Chad N: to take downsides as well. [2250.37] Chad N: One of them being extra weight [2251.97] Chad N: if you're willing to carry a bigger battery. [2254.61] Chad N: But I mean, if that was the case, [2255.81] Chad N: why aren't you carrying a 1600 or 1700 milliamp L4S pack? [2259.49] Chad N: Oh, because I don't want it to be heavy. [2260.93] Chad N: Well, why is it different now for success? [2265.49] AndyRC: The one thing I found, the thing that caught me out with success [2268.61] AndyRC: was when your battery's done, it really caught me out. [2272.77] AndyRC: Like the cocks was falling out of the sky. [2275.25] AndyRC: And it took me back to when they started coming out [2279.57] AndyRC: with the high C4S batteries and you'd be flying [2282.85] AndyRC: and all of a sudden your voltage had just hit a cliff [2287.49] AndyRC: and it had fallen out of the sky. [2289.41] AndyRC: And then I got used to that. [2290.61] AndyRC: But with success, the very first flight I did with success, [2294.93] AndyRC: I was looking at my onscreen display [2297.41] AndyRC: and I think it worked out. [2300.37] AndyRC: I was trying to work out what the voltage was [2302.37] AndyRC: when I should be landing. [2303.41] AndyRC: I think, was it 21 volts or 20 volts? [2306.13] AndyRC: I can't remember. [2307.17] AndyRC: But all I remember is when I got to that point, [2310.05] AndyRC: the copter just fell out of the sky [2311.81] AndyRC: before because it just caught me out. [2314.69] AndyRC: And that was the biggest problem I found with success [2317.17] AndyRC: was that it just hit in a cliff and the copter [2320.77] AndyRC: just falling out of the sky because I hadn't been [2323.41] AndyRC: monitoring the battery as I should have been. [2326.53] Tony: Mikey Dred's got a point. [2328.45] Tony: He doesn't want to watch seven minute freestyle videos. [2333.73] Tony: Two minutes, three minutes is enough. [2336.13] Tony: And I agree with that. [2337.97] Tony: Like trying to find a track what last three minutes [2341.33] Tony: is hard enough, let alone seven. [2344.53] Tony: So I think that's funny, Mikey. [2347.33] Jack: I agree. [2349.33] Jack: Chad, why don't you do a funny video of like, [2351.81] Jack: if you want a lot of flight times, [2354.29] Jack: and just get a big like tethered, [2358.45] Jack: long bit of wire to a car battery or something. [2361.25] Tony: Just plug it in. [2361.97] Jack: You know, just have it there like hovering [2368.61] Jack: upload of half an hour video. [2371.33] Chad N: Yeah. [2371.81] Chad N: Wait, can you hear me? [2373.25] Chad N: Yeah, we can hear. [2374.21] Chad N: Okay, cool. [2375.25] Chad N: My microphone keeps on dying on me. [2377.01] Chad N: Apologies for that. [2380.05] Chad N: Wait, just to go back and answer some points [2383.65] Chad N: you said there, Andy, about it dropping off. [2386.29] Chad N: I mean, this is one point where I say don't use voltage, [2389.97] Chad N: use milliamp hour consumption, because voltage is a very, [2396.05] Chad N: it'll bite you because of course, voltage changes [2399.49] Chad N: under load where milliamp hours don't. [2401.65] Chad N: So milliamp hours is the perfect way to keep an eye [2405.65] Chad N: on your battery when things are going well, [2408.45] Chad N: where voltage is a good way of telling you [2410.53] Chad N: something's gone wrong when something's fucked up. [2413.09] Chad N: That's a good way. [2413.81] Chad N: That's a good way of looking. [2414.93] Chad N: And also to say success if done properly. [2417.65] Chad N: So for example, what was your motor KV and battery [2422.29] Chad N: and so forth that you were using on that? [2424.69] AndyRC: Now you're asking. [2425.57] AndyRC: I think it was around about 1700 KV. [2429.09] AndyRC: And at the time, I only had, even now, like you say, [2434.05] AndyRC: getting the actual batteries to match is really tricky. [2438.29] AndyRC: And I think actually I was running a 1300, [2441.57] AndyRC: which is obviously like way oversized in comparison to a 4S. [2447.25] AndyRC: It's really difficult. [2448.29] AndyRC: It might be different now, but at the time, [2450.29] AndyRC: I couldn't get anything below 1000 milliamp for success. [2454.21] AndyRC: And they're all sold out any shop that had them [2457.25] AndyRC: because like you say, it was a hype. [2459.17] AndyRC: So I'm getting hard. [2461.01] Chad N: I know exactly where you're coming from. [2463.57] Chad N: I was one of the first people to successfully do success [2467.33] Chad N: back in 2015. [2469.89] Chad N: And I had to use helicopter, 3D helicopter batteries. [2473.01] Chad N: That was my only choice. [2475.49] Chad N: But here's an interesting fact that a lot of people forget [2479.57] Chad N: with success, because the efficiency, [2481.33] Chad N: your amp draw will drop. [2483.25] Chad N: Yeah, so your amp draw actually go down. [2486.37] Chad N: So you're not actually punishing the battery as hard. [2489.73] Chad N: So you're actually being nicer to your battery. [2491.89] Chad N: That said, you also need to take into account. [2494.21] Chad N: If you follow the watt hours, what you'll be doing [2496.93] Chad N: is you're reducing the capacity of the battery. [2498.93] Chad N: Because you reduce the capacity of the battery, [2501.09] Chad N: you're also reducing the usable amp draw outlet C rating. [2504.77] Chad N: Because it's a smaller capacity battery. [2506.85] Chad N: So there's all these things to take into account. [2508.93] Chad N: But with taking out, shrinking the size of the battery, [2513.41] Chad N: you are actually reducing the amp draw. [2516.13] Chad N: So it should be easier. [2517.57] Chad N: It might have just been a shitty battery [2519.41] Chad N: or something like that. [2520.13] AndyRC: Oh, I think it was like a ternary graphene thing [2523.17] AndyRC: that I bought for like 10 coins or something. [2525.57] Chad N: So yeah, I don't talk, I do a lot of experiments [2530.69] Chad N: with well-known guys and I don't talk about it much [2536.93] Chad N: just in case I find something that sort of works out. [2539.09] Chad N: So I'll be kind of brief on this. [2541.33] Chad N: But here's some interesting numbers. [2543.73] Chad N: So don't ask me how I know this. [2549.44] Chad N: But 4S1300, 2400 kV setup, regular setup. [2559.44] Chad N: If we use that as a baseline, [2560.88] Chad N: if we go up to 10S, the setup, [2566.0] Chad N: when we're comparing apples with apples, [2568.8] Chad N: the setup becomes 8% more efficient. [2573.04] Chad N: So those people that are telling you, [2574.96] Chad N: I'm getting a minute more flight time out of my success setup. [2580.16] Chad N: Sorry, when a 10S setup is only 8% efficient, [2582.72] Chad N: you can do the numbers to work out [2584.0] Chad N: how much more efficient success is. [2585.92] Chad N: It's only a couple of percent. [2587.6] Chad N: But here's the interesting thing. [2589.36] Chad N: Could get away with running 22 gauge wires to power the ESCs [2593.52] Chad N: because the amp draw was so much smaller. [2596.8] AndyRC: Yeah. [2599.04] Chad N: So that's where the efficiency is. [2601.52] Chad N: And I'm doing some tests in some interesting areas. [2607.2] Chad N: But yeah, the hobby's unwillingness to change, [2611.6] Chad N: because it means putting money forward to change, [2615.28] Chad N: is I will put down as a big reason [2619.12] Chad N: why success hasn't been taken on as much as it has been. [2623.68] Chad N: Because there is an improvement. [2625.68] Chad N: No doubt about that. [2626.64] Chad N: No question about that. [2628.32] Chad N: It just means that you've got to spend extra money [2630.96] Chad N: and just know that the improvement is not as big [2633.92] Chad N: as what some people are saying, [2636.0] Chad N: because they're loading their tests. [2638.88] AndyRC: Yeah. [2639.36] AndyRC: I also think as well, the components [2641.76] AndyRC: have to accept that voltage. [2643.44] AndyRC: And that's another limitation as well. [2645.44] AndyRC: And one thing I found from success, [2648.16] AndyRC: and this might have just been bad components, [2650.16] AndyRC: but I was finding it was getting more noise. [2652.96] AndyRC: So you're having to add capacitors [2655.36] AndyRC: that can accept more voltage. [2658.56] AndyRC: So I think isn't it like 50, [2660.72] AndyRC: you need like a 50 volts capacitor [2663.28] AndyRC: to deal with the voltage spikes and stuff like that? [2667.68] Chad N: Well, there's other reasons for that. [2669.28] Chad N: So for example, as you go higher up in voltage, [2672.24] Chad N: the voltage spikes become less. [2674.64] Chad N: So those big voltage spikes that have blown up components [2677.52] Chad N: when we plug in our 13 for us, [2679.92] Chad N: that's actually becomes less of a problem [2681.68] Chad N: as we increase the voltage. [2683.2] Chad N: So that's less of an issue. [2685.6] Chad N: The voltage spikes, not an issue. [2687.44] Chad N: The noise can become more of an issue, [2691.44] Chad N: but that comes down to the ESC manufacturers. [2694.24] Chad N: So these ESC guys need to be able to put enough caps [2698.48] Chad N: for noise suppression and so forth on their ESCs. [2701.52] Chad N: And realistically, the ESCs that are out there [2705.28] Chad N: have got good noise suppression for four S, [2708.16] Chad N: but above that is not good enough. [2709.68] Chad N: That's why they recommend that you put caps on there [2712.8] Chad N: because they're going, okay, let's make it [2714.96] Chad N: so it can work on KISS success. [2716.96] Chad N: But if we're gonna put good caps on there, [2718.8] Chad N: that's gonna increase the price of it. [2720.32] Chad N: So we wanna keep it down. [2721.36] Chad N: So we're gonna limit, [2722.32] Chad N: plus they also want it really small, [2723.68] Chad N: they want it compact and so forth. [2725.6] Chad N: So they're going, which one are we listening? [2729.04] Chad N: Do we make it more expensive and extremely noise-free [2731.84] Chad N: or do we make it cheaper and cater more to the masses, [2735.76] Chad N: which is the four S market? [2737.12] Chad N: So if the higher voltage becomes a thing, [2741.52] Chad N: you will see the ESC designs evolve to suit that. [2746.32] Chad N: So the noise that you're talking about on success [2748.96] Chad N: is purely down to the ESCs, [2750.72] Chad N: which are not designed to suppress that kind of noise [2752.96] Chad N: because ESCs at the end of the day, [2754.48] Chad N: that's where the noise comes from. [2755.92] AndyRC: Yeah, no, it's an interesting subject. [2759.6] AndyRC: And I've always said that I think, [2762.72] AndyRC: you talk about the things like hitting a plateau [2766.96] AndyRC: and I don't know whether you'll agree with this, [2769.6] AndyRC: but I think the things that need to change [2771.84] AndyRC: rather than, I always feel like we're just messing around [2775.36] AndyRC: and big things that need to change [2777.2] AndyRC: are improvements to video [2780.08] AndyRC: and maybe battery technology, [2782.4] AndyRC: which of course we have no control over. [2785.36] AndyRC: I think those are the limiting things, [2787.36] AndyRC: the fact that we can only have four copters in the sky [2791.12] AndyRC: and rather than using digital video and things like that. [2796.08] AndyRC: And I think it would take that [2798.72] AndyRC: for another hype thing to take off [2801.28] AndyRC: for people to get into it, I think. [2803.92] Chad N: Definitely. [2804.48] Chad N: I think I'll definitely say that batteries, [2807.76] Chad N: I would say are the main limiting factor on core performance. [2812.48] Chad N: They're the weak link in all of the chain. [2815.76] Chad N: I don't see the video thing as big of a weak link, [2820.08] Chad N: more of a ability to commercialize this [2824.16] Chad N: within mainstream people. [2826.08] Chad N: Because right now, it's the hobbyist thing. [2829.04] Chad N: We're like the modern day ham radio guys. [2833.04] Chad N: We like to fiddle and we like to play and so forth. [2835.44] Chad N: Some of us like to play less, [2837.04] Chad N: but general public just wants to switch on and go. [2839.68] Chad N: They don't want to fiddle. [2841.6] Chad N: So if we could, [2843.04] Chad N: and I don't necessarily think that digital is the answer, [2845.84] Chad N: but I mean, yeah, sure, if we can get that, that's great. [2847.92] Chad N: But if we could get a lot, [2848.96] Chad N: if we could do the same thing [2849.84] Chad N: as where you go down to say flight fest, [2851.36] Chad N: where you've got 200 people on the flight line [2854.0] Chad N: or flying at the same time without any issues, [2856.96] Chad N: then problem solved. [2858.88] Chad N: I think the problem really comes down to the reality [2861.84] Chad N: of the limitations of reality itself. [2865.52] Chad N: So battery technology is a limitation around the world, [2872.0] Chad N: not just for us, around the world. [2874.8] Chad N: So if anyone's gonna, yeah, exactly. [2877.76] Chad N: People sort of say, oh, such and such, [2880.88] Chad N: like flight one bought out the new Schizo battery. [2883.68] Chad N: It's new chemistry and it's groundbreaking. [2886.08] Chad N: It's like, who do you think is gonna come up [2887.92] Chad N: with something new, flight one or Tesla? [2892.16] Chad N: If I'm a betting man, I'm gonna go on Tesla [2895.6] Chad N: at the end of the day, [2897.6] Chad N: the new battery technology that we come up with [2899.92] Chad N: is not going to be lithium pole. [2901.76] Chad N: It's gonna be something else [2902.8] Chad N: because that technology has plateaued. [2905.2] Chad N: It's just the same thing as like Nikads [2907.12] Chad N: and then nickel metal hydrides, they all plateaued. [2909.68] Chad N: And then they went on the next one, which was lipos. [2912.56] Chad N: So we've got to find that. [2914.16] Chad N: And the other problem is that when you think about it, [2918.08] Chad N: what we're doing is kind of scary. [2920.72] Chad N: So what we're doing is we're trying to compress [2925.04] Chad N: more and more energy into a smaller [2927.52] Chad N: and smaller and lighter space. [2929.84] Chad N: What that does is turns that storage device [2932.48] Chad N: into even more and more of a volatile storage device. [2936.8] Chad N: So do you think that like we would just carry petrol around [2941.68] Chad N: in our pockets all the time, like we do with our batteries? [2945.04] Chad N: No, we don't really like that shit might catch on fire. [2948.16] Chad N: And so it- [2950.0] Jack: Have we got B-TINE, B-Lighters? [2953.44] Chad N: There are batteries out there [2954.8] Chad N: that do have amazing properties that we absolutely love, [2958.56] Chad N: but they're not safe enough to be used. [2961.2] Chad N: So that's the problem. [2962.24] Chad N: Finding something that has the performance that we want, [2965.36] Chad N: that has the amp draw that we want, [2967.44] Chad N: that has the cost that we want, [2968.88] Chad N: that has the safety factor that we want. [2972.0] Chad N: And we can get a number of those all in separate spots, [2976.64] Chad N: but it's very hard to get them all together. [2978.16] Chad N: And that's the big issue with that. [2980.72] Chad N: And like every other technology, [2983.76] Chad N: that technology will happen with someone else [2987.04] Chad N: and we will leverage it once they perfect it [2989.92] Chad N: and they make it cheap for the mainstream. [2992.08] Chad N: Just like we are only flying, being able to fly quadcopters, [2995.6] Chad N: because the smartphone industry made gyros [2999.28] Chad N: and accelerometers accurate and cheap enough [3001.92] Chad N: and small enough that could be made on mass. [3004.56] Chad N: We weren't part of that and the mobile phone market. [3008.0] Chad N: So that's the one thing there. [3010.16] Chad N: And as far as video technology is concerned, [3014.16] Chad N: there's a long way to go [3015.84] Chad N: before we get anything even remotely better [3018.8] Chad N: than what we had with, what's the name? [3024.8] Chad N: I've completely forgotten their name now. [3026.16] Chad N: That shows how important they are to me. [3027.52] Chad N: The digital- [3028.48] Chad N: Connects, guys. [3029.28] Chad N: Connects, guys. [3030.88] Chad N: Like they put a seriously large amount of work into that. [3034.32] Chad N: And what I think what a lot of people don't understand is [3038.64] Chad N: when it comes to electronics, [3040.88] Chad N: what the inventors of various electronics are limited by [3046.48] Chad N: is the microchips and the silicon [3049.68] Chad N: to make those microchips of what they have on hand. [3055.36] Chad N: And it's been very interesting. [3056.56] Chad N: I've been to a number of electronics fairs [3058.8] Chad N: with Anthony Cake from Immersion RC. [3061.68] Chad N: And he has, you're really putting me off. [3068.0] AndyRC: That's what he's best at doing. [3070.16] Chad N: Yeah, I'm just going to expand the chat. [3074.88] Chad N: So I've been to a number of electronics fairs [3076.8] Chad N: and he's like, I'm trying to create- [3079.76] Jack: I was waiting until Tony notices. [3084.56] Chad N: I'm trying to create this electronic device. [3087.92] Chad N: But the problem is that this microprocessor [3092.64] Chad N: is limited in X area to be able to do this. [3095.44] Chad N: He goes, I can very easily get this company [3097.84] Chad N: to modify that microprocessor to suit our needs. [3101.52] Chad N: But the problem is they have an MOQ, [3103.44] Chad N: a minimum order quantity of a million pieces. [3107.6] Chad N: And he goes, there's not enough of a market there to do that. [3111.44] Chad N: So we're limited to whatever. [3113.6] Chad N: Like ESCs, they're limited when we make FETs. [3118.08] Chad N: Most of the FETs that we use are the 30 volt or lower range [3122.56] Chad N: because the 30 volt is what's used in things [3125.6] Chad N: like computers and so forth. [3128.24] Chad N: So they're widely available. [3130.72] Chad N: When you get outside and higher than that, [3132.8] Chad N: you start running into problems [3134.64] Chad N: where the choice becomes a lot lower. [3139.52] Chad N: It's kind of like saying, I'm going to build an 8S rig. [3143.12] Chad N: What motors are out there? [3144.24] Chad N: There's not too many. [3145.04] Chad N: These are the ones you got to choose from. [3146.16] Chad N: They work, but they're not very good. [3148.16] Chad N: So we're limited to what's already out there [3150.88] Chad N: as to what we can design. [3152.48] Chad N: Now, the ConX guys were very different [3155.28] Chad N: because the company that owns ConX is a very big company [3160.4] Chad N: that is involved in digital transmission. [3163.36] Chad N: That's their forte. [3165.2] Chad N: So they know what they're doing there. [3166.32] Chad N: But they also own a microchip processing, [3171.44] Chad N: designing, and manufacturing plant [3173.12] Chad N: so they can make their own microchips just like DJI. [3175.84] Chad N: DJI makes its own microchips and so forth, [3178.48] Chad N: which means that they can do their own R&D work [3180.64] Chad N: and do that a lot cheaper [3181.76] Chad N: without having to have the minimum order quantity [3183.68] Chad N: and that sort of stuff. [3184.56] Chad N: It's still very expensive, [3186.0] Chad N: but allows them to do things [3187.44] Chad N: that other companies couldn't even dream of doing. [3190.72] Chad N: But the problem is that they put so much R&D into this thing [3194.72] Chad N: that that's the reason why it's the price that it was, [3197.28] Chad N: that everyone was bitching about, [3198.88] Chad N: and they can't compete any lower [3200.32] Chad N: because they've already got it as low as they can possibly do [3202.16] Chad N: because they've got to recoup the money [3204.64] Chad N: that they've put into this thing to make it viable. [3207.6] Chad N: And those guys who have the expertise that they have [3211.44] Chad N: and the ability to make all the microchips [3213.36] Chad N: in electronics themselves, [3214.96] Chad N: and that was still the smallest device that they can put it in. [3217.6] Chad N: So if a massive company like that is struggling to do it, [3221.68] Chad N: then what I'm essentially saying is that kind of technology, [3225.68] Chad N: just like battery technology, [3227.28] Chad N: is going to be developed by someone else. [3229.12] Chad N: And then we're going to leverage it [3230.4] Chad N: once they get it working in a practical and cheap sense. [3234.16] Jack: I mean, the market's changing, though, [3236.24] Jack: because look at the brushless tools now, [3239.76] Jack: you know, brushless DeWalt tools and stuff like that [3242.56] Jack: with FETs. [3243.92] Jack: So everything slowly kind of makes you wonder [3246.88] Jack: whether we had a hand in that, do you know what I mean? [3249.68] Chad N: Well, no, it's more the other way around. [3254.24] Chad N: And the FETs and those things are not that good quality. [3257.12] Chad N: It was very interesting. [3257.76] Chad N: I was talking to Felix about FET design, lots of stuff. [3260.48] Chad N: And he said, where we are going to get new age FETs [3264.16] Chad N: in higher voltages for our higher voltage setups [3267.04] Chad N: is probably going to be the e-bike market, [3269.84] Chad N: because that's becoming a very big all of these sort of like one wheels [3273.6] Chad N: and lots of stuff that people are transporting around electrically. [3277.04] Chad N: They all need FETs and they're using a much higher voltage [3280.08] Chad N: than the computer stuff. [3281.52] Chad N: So these guys are selling enough of this stuff [3285.92] Chad N: to warrant the minimum order quantities for them [3288.88] Chad N: to become the next thing. [3289.84] Chad N: And Felix is saying, that's where we're going to get our new, [3292.88] Chad N: the new range of higher voltage FETs. [3295.36] Chad N: But I think that's a subject that probably people don't talk about [3300.72] Chad N: because they don't know. [3301.68] Chad N: And I didn't really know until recently myself, [3304.72] Chad N: when I started hanging out with these companies, [3306.72] Chad N: where I realized that, okay, sure, we're designing electronics, [3310.4] Chad N: but all those little tiny little chips and stuff [3312.56] Chad N: that they put on the PCBs are all stuff [3315.76] Chad N: that's being borrowed from someone else. [3318.64] Chad N: And we can only use what's on hand. [3320.72] Chad N: We can't modify it. [3322.48] Chad N: And that's why you see, when you see a big company do something, [3326.72] Chad N: they get a board that's got like 20 different chips [3329.52] Chad N: and resistors and stuff like that. [3331.44] Chad N: And all of a sudden, they make it happen with one, [3333.36] Chad N: just one microprocessor because it's all inbuilt. [3336.8] Chad N: And they have the ability to do that [3338.72] Chad N: because that's the scale of mass production. [3341.92] AndyRC: Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it? [3343.68] AndyRC: I find this a lot, you know, [3345.68] AndyRC: there's a lot of people out there that have questions like, [3349.04] AndyRC: why can't this be done? [3350.48] AndyRC: And no one answers them, like, you know, [3354.96] AndyRC: if we take fat sharks as like the recent example, [3358.48] AndyRC: why can't we? [3359.2] AndyRC: There's one today. [3361.68] AndyRC: Yeah, but it turns out, everyone's like, [3365.04] AndyRC: why aren't fat sharks this, this, and this? [3367.04] AndyRC: Why aren't they so much better? [3368.48] AndyRC: And it's usually because of that, [3371.6] AndyRC: everything's repurposed, what we're doing. [3374.16] AndyRC: And it's not as easy as it sounds [3377.44] AndyRC: to have the perfect products [3379.04] AndyRC: because there's not enough money in it [3382.48] AndyRC: for it to be developed within the hobby. [3384.72] AndyRC: It has to come from somewhere else. [3386.08] AndyRC: It's an interesting thing. [3387.04] Chad N: We are a niche industry, [3388.72] Chad N: and we need to grow a thousandfold [3391.76] Chad N: before anything of this becomes viable [3395.84] Chad N: to do massive improvements. [3399.6] Chad N: It's the scale of manufacturing. [3402.0] Chad N: We're not big enough. [3403.84] Chad N: And the simple fact of the matter [3406.24] Chad N: is to produce new products is expensive. [3410.96] Chad N: And you're not selling enough of those products [3413.76] Chad N: to make it worthwhile. [3415.12] Chad N: And people and my pet haters to go, [3418.16] Chad N: I just bought this flight controller. [3420.4] Chad N: And I know for a fact that there's only $5 [3423.04] Chad N: worth of components on there, [3424.32] Chad N: yet you're selling it for $40. [3426.88] Chad N: And I'm going, that sounds exactly [3428.56] Chad N: like the comment to someone [3429.76] Chad N: who has no idea what is going on [3433.76] Chad N: within designing that. [3435.12] Chad N: Because it's a simple fact [3437.2] Chad N: that anyone who knows anything [3438.56] Chad N: about R&D development manufacturing [3441.04] Chad N: is the cost price of something [3442.96] Chad N: is probably the lowest part [3444.88] Chad N: of the cost of it. [3446.48] Chad N: It's that simple. [3447.68] Chad N: And that's one of the reasons why [3450.4] Chad N: the Chinese cloners and so forth [3452.4] Chad N: can get away with cheap prices. [3454.0] Chad N: It's not just because they use cheap components [3457.12] Chad N: because they don't always use cheap components. [3459.44] Chad N: If you priced how cheaply [3461.28] Chad N: they could get those components, [3463.12] Chad N: you'd find out they're ripping you off as well. [3468.48] Chad N: They're able to make this at a fraction [3470.88] Chad N: of what they sell it for. [3472.72] Chad N: And then they usually put a bigger profit margin [3476.88] Chad N: than what the original guys do. [3479.28] Chad N: But they can still get away with it [3480.96] Chad N: because they don't have to pay for R&D. [3482.88] Chad N: They don't have to pay their employees for R&D. [3485.76] Chad N: They don't have to pay for the cost [3487.44] Chad N: of sending stuff out. [3489.28] Chad N: They don't have to pay for the cost [3490.72] Chad N: of customer service. [3491.52] Chad N: They don't have to pay the cost of advertising [3494.08] Chad N: and being part of the community [3495.92] Chad N: and sponsoring pilots and things like that. [3501.36] Chad N: When someone complains about the cost of it [3502.96] Chad N: because how much it costs, it's just laughable. [3505.28] Chad N: And I know I've developed a lot of enemies [3507.44] Chad N: by reacting that way, [3508.4] Chad N: but I'm just sick of it [3509.84] Chad N: because when I point that out, they go, [3513.44] Chad N: well, I'm just not going to support you then. [3516.64] Chad N: Well, you're buying cheap Chinese clone stuff anyway, [3519.2] Chad N: so you weren't supporting me to begin with. [3520.88] Chad N: So why should I care? [3522.88] Jack: Well, I'm not going to watch your videos [3524.72] Jack: and give you a fraction of a cent. [3527.52] AndyRC: That's cool because my videos aren't monetized. [3529.6] AndyRC: I think something that's happening though, [3532.4] AndyRC: Chad, on that subject is I think [3535.44] AndyRC: the cheap Chinese clone industry [3537.68] AndyRC: is actually caving in on itself. [3541.28] AndyRC: I think so too. [3542.64] AndyRC: Because the quality is so bad, [3547.2] AndyRC: people are buying into this stuff. [3548.72] AndyRC: It's failing and going wrong [3551.04] AndyRC: and there's no support there. [3552.56] AndyRC: Whereas if you buy into an original, [3556.32] Jack: If you buy into Fat Shark, [3557.92] Jack: you get great customer support. [3560.48] Jack: And if your success copter falls out of the sky, [3564.88] Jack: all you need is a Wolf PDB [3567.84] Jack: because that comes with a milliamp hour [3570.64] Jack: shunt resistor that will tell you- [3572.48] Chad N: Finally, he talks some sense. [3574.4] Jack: Yeah, is sheel the right word, Frank? [3579.2] Jack: Is that... [3581.6] Jack: Sheel? [3582.48] Jack: Sheel, that's it. [3583.28] AndyRC: I wanted to ask about the Wolf PDB. [3589.12] Jack: Does it make your nipples hard, Andy, I'll say. [3591.6] AndyRC: It does because it's got an on-screen display [3594.32] AndyRC: built into it, hasn't it? [3595.6] AndyRC: I think, Chad, keep them firm. [3598.16] AndyRC: Sorry, say that again, sorry. [3603.52] AndyRC: Okay, so I've got an original Alien, right? [3607.44] AndyRC: And when I built it, it's got the KISS V1 in it [3611.76] AndyRC: and I did the old... [3613.52] AndyRC: Because I like an on-screen display, [3615.44] AndyRC: so I did the MINIM on-screen display mods [3620.16] AndyRC: that you could do. [3620.8] Jack: They're not as good as a Wolf PDB. [3623.12] Jack: I don't mention milliamp hour usage. [3626.08] Chad N: I had a MINIM OSD set up for my racing in Dubai [3630.48] Chad N: with my KISS gear and it was just headache after headache. [3633.76] Chad N: It was a real pain. [3635.04] Chad N: I ended up making a jumper [3637.04] Jack: so that when it went wrong, [3638.72] Jack: I could plug something in to bypass it. [3642.0] Jack: Yeah, mine just turns off randomly as well. [3646.96] AndyRC: That's something mine does. [3648.16] AndyRC: But I wanted to ask because I wanted to ask [3652.0] AndyRC: I wanted to know, I bought a... [3655.84] AndyRC: Sorry to mention this one, [3657.44] AndyRC: but I bought a Mr. Steel PDB for it, [3659.68] AndyRC: which I haven't fitted yet. [3662.64] AndyRC: And the minute I mentioned that I was going to fit it, [3665.12] AndyRC: everyone said, oh, it fails all the time [3667.84] AndyRC: and all this business. [3668.96] AndyRC: So the question I wanted to ask was, [3670.64] AndyRC: will the Wolf PDB fit the Alien [3674.08] AndyRC: or will it only fit the Reverb is my question. [3680.66] Chad N: I'll answer a few things on this. [3683.38] Chad N: So the Wolf PDB was designed for the Reverb [3688.34] Chad N: as a slot straight into the Reverb. [3690.66] Chad N: But when we were designing the Reverb PDB, [3693.38] Chad N: whether it be the basic PDB or the Wolf PDB, [3696.42] Chad N: the basic layout of the PDB was designed [3699.54] Chad N: so that can we make this [3702.34] Chad N: so that it will likely work in a lot of frames? [3706.1] Chad N: You can't make it work in all frames, [3707.7] Chad N: but can we make it work in a lot of frames? [3710.42] Chad N: So there are very few frames that you can't make it work. [3720.66] Chad N: There are people that have put it in an Alien. [3722.66] Chad N: It just takes a little bit of shuffling. [3724.34] Chad N: So the difference with say the Wolf PDB in the Alien [3727.7] Chad N: is that the Alien has got that extra set of four screws [3730.66] Chad N: right in the middle where the Reverb doesn't. [3733.54] Chad N: So what you have to do is you have to float it [3736.58] Chad N: above those presses. [3740.1] Chad N: And you'd be best to get them like the Impulse RC thread [3743.3] Chad N: or the go back on RC groups to those forums there [3748.1] Chad N: and ask those guys how they did it. [3749.7] Chad N: Because there's a number of guys [3750.58] Chad N: that have done various ways of floating that above that. [3753.86] Chad N: Once you do that, that's fine. [3755.3] Chad N: And that would be the same. [3756.18] Chad N: Like there's guys that have put them in Roosters. [3758.34] Chad N: They've had to float them above there. [3760.26] Chad N: Guys that are in, they've put them, [3762.9] Chad N: apparently the Chameleons that just go straight in. [3765.78] Chad N: I think the Stingy, maybe it goes straight in. [3769.54] Chad N: But you can fit it in most things. [3771.7] Chad N: It's just a matter of how much effort you want to put into it. [3776.98] Chad N: So the Impulse RC guys recommend that if you've got an Alien, [3780.5] Chad N: the Steel PDB is the recommended one there [3782.58] Chad N: because it goes straight in there. [3784.26] Chad N: But if you want to put a Wolf PDB, it will fit. [3787.94] Chad N: And one of the reasons why you'd want to put a Wolf PDB in there [3791.06] Chad N: is because it does a shitload more stuff. [3794.18] Chad N: And it doesn't have a nostalgia. [3795.62] Chad N: Just for the record too, because I like being open. [3797.78] Chad N: I don't make a cent on the Wolf board. [3799.54] Chad N: So Alexander Wolf and Impulse RC are the ones that make... [3804.26] Chad N: I just wanted to get the Steel PDB, [3807.3] Chad N: which I thought was lacking in some areas [3809.86] Chad N: and bring it to what the customers want. [3812.42] Chad N: And I started off and I gave this idea to Sean and Alex [3817.3] Chad N: and they sort of rolled with it. [3819.06] Chad N: And I've sort of been semi-involved in the process through it. [3822.1] Chad N: But it's 99% their work. [3825.86] Jack: But if you do buy a Wolf PDB, please ensure that you buy. [3830.9] Jack: Even if you don't need one, another reverb [3833.78] Jack: so that Chad can eat another day. [3836.26] Chad N: Yeah, I'm hoping to get really fancy [3839.7] Chad N: and go out and eat pizza tonight. [3841.06] Chad N: So if you got to always support me, that would be great. [3843.86] Jack: Join his Patreon. [3845.94] Chad N: But there are people that... [3848.82] Chad N: And I don't have any experience on this [3850.82] Chad N: because I've never installed a Steel PDB in my Alien [3854.9] Chad N: because just an OSD by itself, I've never had the use for. [3860.02] Chad N: And one of the reasons why I wanted more from the Wolf PDB. [3865.46] Chad N: So I can't comment, but from my understanding, [3869.62] Chad N: some people have issues with the Steel PDB [3872.98] Chad N: because it's part of the structure. [3874.82] Chad N: When you hit something with an arm, it bends the middle plate [3877.7] Chad N: and it can sort of break things on the PCB. [3880.02] Chad N: I think that's more happening with your biggest six and seven-inch arms [3883.38] Chad N: where they've got more leverage and so forth. [3885.7] AndyRC: That's what I thought. [3886.9] Chad N: Yeah, and one of my reasons was... [3889.94] Chad N: One of my reasons for designing the reverb [3892.42] Chad N: where it doesn't have the PDB as part of the structure [3895.14] Chad N: was because of that. [3896.02] Chad N: Because I just saw issues with that long-term. [3898.5] Chad N: So I wanted that floating and I wanted that away. [3900.9] Chad N: But I also wanted to do that [3902.18] Chad N: because I wanted to give people the opportunity to choose. [3906.26] Chad N: If you don't want a PDB, don't buy the PDB. [3909.22] Chad N: So that's why the base version of the reverb is a bit cheaper [3913.46] Chad N: because it doesn't include any PDB. [3915.46] Chad N: Because there's guys out there that are using all-in-one boards [3919.06] Chad N: with their own PDB on the flight controller. [3921.14] Chad N: What do you want a PDB for? [3922.34] Chad N: So the whole idea was to let's design an aircraft [3926.1] Chad N: that will keep so many different... [3927.3] Chad N: Because we know how picky all our spastens are. [3929.78] Chad N: It's like, I'd buy that quad if it didn't have those ESCs on it. [3934.34] Chad N: So if you can design a frame that allows people [3938.18] Chad N: multiple choices right from the get-go, it keeps them happier. [3940.98] Chad N: So that's the reason why the PDB on the reverb is the way that it is. [3947.3] Chad N: But at the same time, our design process was, [3950.42] Chad N: how can we design this so that it fits beautifully with the reverb? [3954.02] Chad N: But also gives people the opportunity to use it in other frames [3958.9] Chad N: knowing that this is their main choice. [3961.22] Chad N: And especially with all new features on the Wolf PDB [3964.1] Chad N: will be a very popular choice for any KISS user [3966.66] Chad N: and quite a lot of better flight users as well. [3970.58] AndyRC: Yeah, awesome. [3971.86] Jack: Right, guys, I've got to call it time. [3974.1] Tony: It is quarter past the hour. [3976.98] Tony: Can I just say, sorry that we've talked about drones and drone stuff. [3981.7] Tony: I'm sorry there is no lawn mowers and rain things and... [3986.1] AndyRC: What did you want to talk about, Tony? [3988.02] AndyRC: Very quickly. [3988.5] Tony: Well, you know, our viewers are like, [3991.22] Tony: this is too drone related. [3993.3] Tony: What's going on? [3994.42] AndyRC: Are they just disappointed Chad didn't take his top off later last time? [3998.42] AndyRC: Might be, I don't know. [4002.1] Chad N: You guys do realise that we didn't even speak once about drone regulation, [4006.34] Chad N: which I think was the whole reason for me coming on. [4010.34] Jack: Frank's very angry about that. [4013.14] Tony: Frank, I want Frank to swear. [4016.18] Curry: It must be even more angry because since last week, [4018.82] Curry: we had the new consultation thing come out as well, [4021.38] Curry: which is even more depressing. [4022.98] Chad N: Well, the FAA is trying to squash any ability for people to fly hobbyist drones in America with freedom. [4034.42] Chad N: In Australia, the Australian federal government has come out with their, [4039.22] Chad N: after meetings of their thoughts on what should happen in terms of drone safety, [4043.3] Chad N: which is basically usual shit, drone registration and f*** everyone off to an aircraft club, [4050.1] Chad N: lots of stuff. [4051.7] Chad N: So it's happening all around the world. [4054.5] Chad N: And yeah, I don't think there's much that we can do about it because we're a bunch of nobodies. [4061.3] Chad N: We're going to educate people and we're going to show them what we're like. [4065.46] Chad N: We're a bunch of nobodies and we're a small community. [4067.78] Chad N: No one gives a f*** about us. [4069.38] Chad N: We haven't got any money. [4070.34] Chad N: Yeah, exactly. [4070.9] Chad N: We're not Amazon. [4072.26] Chad N: Yeah, exactly. [4074.58] Chad N: I would like to say, I'd like to be hopeful that we're going to win, [4077.54] Chad N: but I think we're going to lose. [4079.38] Chad N: And I'm just at the point where I've spent so much time with my aviation governing body, [4084.82] Chad N: CASA, and been f***ed over so many times that now I'm just like, you know what, [4089.14] Chad N: f*** you, I'll just go underground. [4091.94] Tony: Yeah, that's probably what's going to happen in the long run. [4096.42] Chad N: That's exactly what's going to happen because until they can actually prove that we're being [4100.82] Chad N: dangerous, people are not going to take them seriously. [4103.14] Chad N: And none of the statistics back up any claims that there is a safety concern at all. [4108.18] Curry: Why don't we all just print out an Amazon logo and stick it to our quads? [4111.94] Curry: And if anybody asked, they'll be like, yes, it's one of the test drones. [4115.22] Curry: They'll be like, oh, sorry, back off. [4117.14] Chad N: Yeah, that is a good idea. [4118.5] Chad N: Everyone do that. [4120.1] Chad N: Oh, and just as an aside, in case anyone doesn't know and they are interested in watching the two [4124.5] Chad N: videos that I've got my removing oneself from the equation and the chicken sandwich video that I [4129.38] Chad N: had to pull down because I got in trouble with CASA, I've made them public on my YouTube channel [4133.94] Chad N: again. So if you guys want to go watch them, go ahead and watch them because my reply after [4137.94] Chad N: the way that CASA deal with another incident regarding a TV station, which did similar [4142.9] Chad N: dangerous things to me, but even worse, and they let them off going, oh, it's all right. [4146.58] Chad N: We'll let them do this. [4147.62] Chad N: My answer is, you know what? [4149.62] Chad N: You, I'm putting this shit back up. [4151.14] Tony: I like this new Chad and chicken sandwich is probably the best FPV video I've ever [4156.82] Tony: ever watched. I absolutely adore that video. [4159.86] Tony: It's back up there if you want to watch it. [4163.3] Tony: Your dad sent it to me the other day. [4168.18] Tony: When are we going to see another video from you? [4170.42] Tony: Because you've gone quiet. [4171.94] Tony: Are you still flying? [4173.54] Tony: Are you still going to put a video up? [4174.98] Tony: Or is it just because you want to do it when you want to do it all? [4178.42] Chad N: Well, it's kind of like that. [4179.78] Chad N: I still fly. [4180.58] Chad N: Like I don't fly 20 packs a day. [4182.66] Chad N: I fly when I feel like it, which is every now and then. [4187.3] Chad N: And like, I'm one of those pilots, I've gone to so many different locations. [4191.3] Chad N: And I got to a point where I'm like, oh, you want to go to a Bando? [4194.58] Chad N: Oh, yeah, another Bando. [4195.7] Chad N: Done lots of stuff. [4196.9] Chad N: For me, it's not about going to new and extreme places. [4200.34] Chad N: It's about producing something that moves me. [4204.66] Chad N: You know, I like telling a story. [4206.34] Chad N: It's not about showing off. [4207.54] Chad N: So when I find a location that I'm like, wow, I want to tell a story. [4211.06] Chad N: I want to share something. [4212.26] Chad N: I'll go and do that. [4213.62] Chad N: And that doesn't mean going down to the same park every single day and flying. [4217.54] Chad N: It just that if I'm not passionate about something, then I'm not going to do it. [4221.7] Chad N: Because I'm not making money on this. [4224.98] SPEAKER_04: I'm just doing it. [4226.5] SPEAKER_04: That's what I'm trying to. [4228.18] Chad N: So yeah, I will make more videos. [4230.18] Chad N: I just don't know when I'm not going to say I'm going to do one next week. [4235.54] Chad N: I get angry when I sit there and I try and make I try and push something. [4239.46] Chad N: So I'm just like, no, I'm doing this for fun. [4241.86] Chad N: And I appreciate all the support that people give me. [4244.26] Chad N: And new stuff will come out with new stuff. [4247.46] Chad N: And that way, when I can say every single video that I've put out flying video, [4251.38] Chad N: I'm very proud of it. [4252.9] Chad N: And there's a story behind it. [4254.34] Chad N: And I watch it. [4255.3] Chad N: It takes me back to that point in time. [4257.46] Chad N: And I can recreate what was going on in my life at that point in time. [4262.42] Chad N: It's not a, hey, look, I can fly really cool. [4264.66] Chad N: Look at me. [4265.06] Chad N: Look at me. [4265.54] Chad N: Look at me. [4266.1] Chad N: It's a, I was going through something at that point in time in life. [4269.7] Chad N: And there's little subtle overtones in that video that 99% of the people out there won't even get. [4275.54] Chad N: But those who know me understand the little secret innuendos that were in there. [4280.74] Chad N: Or just, I want to share something that was really, I thought was really beautiful. [4285.46] Chad N: And if people like it, then they like it. [4288.02] Chad N: So I guess I just need, I need to find more, more situations that move me out in general life. [4294.26] Chad N: Okay. [4295.54] Tony: Well, we miss it. [4297.3] Tony: Are we doing an idea? [4298.58] Tony: I'll say you're Northern at all tonight. [4301.7] AndyRC: You can do if you want. [4302.74] AndyRC: I was going to say someone's complaining that it hasn't been done [4306.18] AndyRC: in the comments, which is kind of fun. [4308.26] AndyRC: I think we need to do it. [4310.26] AndyRC: Oh, Jesus. [4311.3] AndyRC: Hang on. [4311.7] AndyRC: Let me just Google. [4312.9] AndyRC: I still don't get this segment. [4315.22] Jack: Oi, Andy RC, you're Northern, aren't you? [4318.42] Jack: Apparently. [4319.86] Jack: Apparently so, but he's not. [4321.62] AndyRC: He's the best bit in the show. [4324.18] AndyRC: Even though I'm technically the Midlands, but okay. [4327.3] Jack: Shut up. [4328.26] Jack: Look, you're Northern. [4329.14] Jack: You're worth a fat shark. [4330.34] Jack: So shut your whore mouth. [4332.74] AndyRC: Okay. [4334.42] Jack: Oh, no. [4335.38] Jack: Hang on. [4336.02] AndyRC: You're just not prepared. [4337.06] AndyRC: I'm not prepared. [4338.58] Jack: Northern expressions. [4344.58] Jack: Go on. [4345.06] Jack: Oh, what? [4347.46] Jack: I can't read that. [4350.1] Jack: It's put words into O L E. [4360.98] Jack: Wow. [4362.18] Jack: Like coal. [4362.82] Jack: Oh, yeah. [4363.54] Jack: Into old wooden hole. [4365.7] Jack: Put wood in the hole. [4366.98] Jack: Yeah, that's it. [4367.7] Jack: Get the hole. [4368.9] Jack: Put wood in toll. [4369.94] AndyRC: You have a cup to tea. [4372.9] AndyRC: Put wood in what? [4374.1] AndyRC: Like a glory hole or something. [4375.94] AndyRC: That's what you need to decide. [4378.66] AndyRC: That's what you need to decide. [4379.7] AndyRC: Where is your mind, Andy RC? [4381.38] AndyRC: Dear, oh, dear. [4382.18] AndyRC: That's my interpretation of put wood in toll. [4385.7] Jack: It means shut the door. [4387.06] Jack: Richard Warrett. [4388.26] Jack: Oh, yeah. [4390.5] AndyRC: What do you know? [4392.5] AndyRC: Oh, I've got one. [4393.62] AndyRC: I just thought of one because they used to say this. [4395.86] AndyRC: Climb that door. [4397.3] AndyRC: Climb the wooden hills. [4398.74] AndyRC: Did you know? [4399.38] AndyRC: Up the wooden hill. [4400.34] Tony: That's getting to bed. [4401.7] Tony: Say that. [4402.18] Tony: Go to bed. [4402.82] Tony: Get up that wood, Neil, son. [4405.06] AndyRC: That's not a northern one, then. [4406.66] AndyRC: Do you say that to Joker? [4410.74] AndyRC: Go to bed together. [4411.94] AndyRC: No, I think it says put wood in toll, I think. [4415.3] Tony: Oh, yeah, Andy. [4416.42] Tony: Do Northern. [4417.3] Tony: Shut it. [4418.5] Tony: Right. [4419.14] Tony: Let's have a little shout quick and then we go. [4423.14] Tony: Frank's is bugging off. [4424.9] AndyRC: Frank's gone. [4425.86] AndyRC: Hey, I just want to do a quick shout out to I've been. [4428.9] AndyRC: I'm out with some local lads and it turns out they they listen and watch LDO. [4433.46] AndyRC: It was. [4433.94] AndyRC: Hey. [4434.42] AndyRC: Did you apologize to them? [4437.54] AndyRC: So I'm going to shout out to Pete and Rich. [4441.86] AndyRC: They both. [4443.86] AndyRC: Rich listens to the show at work, so. [4446.74] Tony: Oh, Pete and Rich. [4447.86] Tony: Hello, Pete. [4448.5] Tony: You're listening to this. [4449.3] Tony: Every day's going all right. [4451.7] Tony: There you go. [4452.82] Tony: All right. [4453.14] Tony: Shout out to Alf Swishy. [4454.9] Tony: Dave, when Davis is in the chat, JokerVision. [4459.62] Tony: Best friend, Richard Warwick, MC Creations, BOM, green patches in the chat. [4466.9] Tony: Peter Marshall, tribal FPV. [4470.26] Tony: Who else we got? [4471.06] Tony: I got up here. [4474.58] Tony: I can't see any new ones. [4476.42] Tony: Aeris. [4478.66] Tony: Patches, Richard. [4480.42] Tony: I think I've got work. [4482.18] Tony: Chad's in the chat. [4483.14] Tony: Mikey Dred. [4483.94] Tony: All of the normals. [4486.26] Tony: Hello to everyone. [4487.54] Tony: Thanks for tuning in. [4489.14] Tony: We love you all. [4490.5] Tony: Thank you, Patreons as well. [4491.78] Tony: Because Jack doesn't say thank you anymore. [4494.5] Jack: I do. [4495.46] Jack: Thank you. [4496.1] Jack: Thank you, Patreons. [4497.38] Jack: In fact, we had some new ones. [4501.86] Jack: One of them left, unfortunately. [4505.22] AndyRC: What did you say, Jack? [4506.58] Jack: I don't know. [4508.26] Jack: Yeah. [4508.82] Jack: Thank you, guys. [4509.7] Jack: Thank you for filling that hole that Tony's left behind. [4515.62] Jack: 7-8-50. [4517.94] Chad N: 7-8-50. [4519.3] Jack: Or 7-8-50. [4521.22] Chad N: Oh, you don't know the story of 7-8-50? [4523.62] Jack: No. [4524.9] Chad N: Okay. [4525.38] Chad N: Do you remember a lot of the big live feeds that happened after you guys started that, [4532.42] Chad N: where they'd start giving stuff away. [4535.46] Chad N: And so you'd have to guess a number. [4539.7] Chad N: Between a certain amount and a certain amount. [4542.5] Chad N: Whoever cast the correct number. [4545.3] Chad N: Between zero and 100. [4548.5] Chad N: Every time they asked the question on some live feeds, I'd just reply with 7-8-50. [4554.34] Chad N: It became a thing. [4555.54] Chad N: Every live feed I was on, people would just answer everything with 7-8-50. [4562.1] Jack: We've got a used CC3D board. [4566.74] Jack: If you'd like to win this. [4568.5] Chad N: 7-8-50. [4570.18] Jack: Win chat. [4571.94] AndyRC: Is it a genuine one? [4573.22] Chad N: 7-8-50. [4574.18] Chad N: 7-8-50. [4575.94] Jack: Oh, I think it's genuine. [4578.82] Jack: It was from First Person View. [4582.18] AndyRC: Yeah, I think it's got... [4583.78] AndyRC: Is that Revo written on it, I think? [4586.98] AndyRC: That's what it was called, wasn't it? [4588.26] AndyRC: Originally, CC3D Revo, wasn't it? [4591.22] Jack: No, Rev-C, I think, isn't it? [4593.7] AndyRC: Yeah, something like that. [4594.5] AndyRC: Sounds genuine, Jack. [4595.7] AndyRC: Doctor Control 3D. [4604.18] Jack: Remember, if you want your fly controllers to fly better, lick them. [4608.82] Jack: That's fake, the original is white. [4610.82] Jack: Okay, thank you, Mikey Dred. [4614.9] Jack: Going in the bin. [4620.18] Jack: Right, thank you. [4621.7] Jack: You've been listening to Let Your Drone Out. [4625.78] Jack: Do you fancy a bit of gay farming, curry kitten? [4630.34] Curry: No, I have Edit Hell to do. [4633.14] Jack: No worries. [4633.7] Curry: Times the affinity. [4635.38] Jack: No worries. [4636.82] Jack: No thing, I'm going to go eat. [4638.66] Jack: All right, thank you. [4639.38] Jack: You've been listening to Let Your Drone Out. [4641.7] Jack: NJ Tech is two subs away from 10K. [4647.54] Jack: You've been joined by Andrew slash Frank. [4649.62] Jack: Bye. [4652.18] Jack: He's turned his camera off because he's taken his shirt off. [4655.78] Jack: Ladies, he's available. [4657.78] Jack: Just go to andrewslashfrank.com. [4661.46] Jack: Andy Arce. [4663.3] AndyRC: Good evening, everyone. [4665.22] Jack: He's wearing a hoodie in this weather. [4666.98] Jack: You can tell he's northern. [4668.98] Jack: Final guide Oz. [4670.82] Chad N: Why, thank you, guys. [4672.98] Jack: Thank you so much, buddy. [4674.26] Jack: I'm glad you're doing well, and it's a pleasure to have you on. [4677.46] Jack: My little Tony. [4678.9] Jack: For sure. [4680.98] Jack: He's vegan, but he's still eating himself. [4683.78] Jack: And he's not really vegan. [4687.62] Tony: That actually is vegan. [4689.22] Tony: You can't eat yourself or someone else. [4692.1] Tony: I'm just a crush you can reach. [4696.74] Jack: Put in his own words in his own hole. [4701.06] Jack: Thank you. [4701.78] Jack: Good night. [4704.26] UNKNOWN: Telemetry lost.