=== Let's Drone Out — Episode 166 ===
Title: Micro Drone With Vernon Kerswell
Recorded: 2018-11-01
Hosts: Andy, Jack "Brightontillifly" Nash, Wayne "CurryKitten" Andrews, Tony "TheTonstar1" Marchant, Andrew "Frank" Hyams
Guest(s): Vernon Kerswell
Total audience: 2,553
Platforms: YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyYfDadnFVE); SoundCloud (http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/feeds.soundcloud.com/stream/540170982-letsdroneout-micro-drone-with-vernon-kerswell.mp3)
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[0.0] Jack: hey guys it's jack here big massive shout out to our patreons so these guys are the guys who donate
[9.76] Jack: for the editing and they really do make a huge difference to keep the show alive uh we've been
[17.52] Jack: sponsored by art falconer ferdy evers mike dread and under fluke these guys are absolute legends
[25.92] Jack: thank you so much and see you next show
[35.1] Jack: fernan does this this trigger you hang on oh yeah that's it yeah no hello and welcome
[49.73] Jack: to another episode of let's drone out tonight we are joined by uh curry kitten hello bernan
[58.29] Jack: hey from robot wars
[62.45] Jack: as far as i concerned uh my little tony bonjour eating oven baked carrots i believe in chip full
[73.49] Jack: oh potatoes weren't vegan enough uh andy arcee good evening and andrew slash frank hello
[82.05] Jack: oh and i am brighten till i fly or jack and uh i thought i'd read the people the other way around
[91.49] Jack: so hopefully it makes more sense i miss your eye makeup yeah i couldn't i could take myself
[97.57] Jack: seriously okay i i was i was literally cracking up when it looks horrendous i watched some of
[103.73] Jack: that video back it is horrendous what was i thinking i like i liked it and the disciplinary
[113.57] Jack: action will be brought up in the meeting andy arcee for not dressing up you've just said you
[121.81] AndyRC: couldn't watch it back and now you're having a go at me for not doing it i think i think i was the
[126.93] AndyRC: one who had it it didn't make sense either why because we were trying to like you had me doing
[133.89] AndyRC: the it didn't no one knew who anybody was just now what's the whole point was it was the best episode
[141.25] AndyRC: ever yeah at least at least you could keep it posted this year or might the year before yeah
[149.09] AndyRC: we should explain to verden it was a halloween special last week and and jack decided that we're
[155.57] AndyRC: all dressing up as each other and i run out of time and it kind of anyways yeah and paul time
[162.61] Curry: we gave you five minutes beforehand you could have done something yeah all you needed for a
[167.65] Jack: jack was a sock a dodgy wig made out of a mop and some stains on your t-shirt what about it i uh i
[178.53] Vernon Kerswell: had other other things i was doing i apologize for halloween we actually dressed our drones up
[185.49] Vernon Kerswell: and uh everyone here dressed their drones up in their own fancy fancy dress costume which is fun
[191.41] AndyRC: where are you based then verden i'm seeing a big workshop here are you with um i'm actually in the
[197.97] Vernon Kerswell: lab at the moment um i thought it was a good setting to have a you know just to just to have
[202.53] Vernon Kerswell: this drone out here might as well be in the action as you know yes verden's willing on location
[209.17] Curry: he's got like you know bits and bobs on a proper shelf and stuff that's quite cool yeah he's got
[213.65] Vernon Kerswell: a power supply in the back isn't he are you in the uk then verden oil yeah i'm i'm actually in
[220.29] Jack: our office in london right now he's underneath the robot wars arena in a minute like one's gonna
[227.65] AndyRC: fall in from the pit right can you explain all these references to robot wars please
[233.97] Jack: well you've asked ask our guest can i just pause on it
[240.37] Tony: what does crete charles smell like i've got to pause everyone now i've got i've got interrupts
[246.61] Tony: because this is what we do rd fbv has just sent us 14 99 dollars so in the super chat thank you
[256.85] Tony: mate i'm not i'm not allowed to do noises or anything anymore so i just you can you can do
[263.49] Tony: noises just not just stop the chat halfway through and say thank you so there you go thank you
[269.81] Jack: carry on sorry to interrupt everyone no that's what we have you here for carry on masticating
[279.17] Jack: i'm the fluke everyone do you want to read some people out in the chat tony
[283.41] Jack: hang on let's wait for uh let's wait for him to finish chewing
[289.33] AndyRC: i'm eating i'm really i'm so sorry very professional you know you had all those
[294.93] Curry: hours during the day and you decided to eat i've done nothing today i've been
[299.65] Jack: let me just write a list of tony's priorities right hang on right one annoying jack
[307.33] Jack: that's number one two eating
[312.77] Jack: i wouldn't call that three watching dog poo on cam
[318.21] Jack: four let's go now sorry now we've got that straight has Vernon ever seen this show does
[323.57] Vernon Kerswell: he know what he's let himself in for what have you got i have actually seen one episode and um
[328.53] Vernon Kerswell: it's pretty cool i mean it's like i'm a i'm a drone fanatic so you know it's definitely up
[332.85] Tony: my street we very rarely talk about drones unless nj's on we tried phoning him and we
[340.37] Tony: got no luck he's like more lawnmower stuff on here than drones look we brought up lawnmowers once
[347.57] Tony: oh no but it's the thing now isn't it so jack why i'm just gonna go through people sorry dandy
[355.33] Tony: andrew fb the vaping fbv scott watson clive fbv what's up richard warrick southwest fbj j jones
[362.77] Tony: hello mate on the fluke what's up bruv um rob britain hi mate um who else we've got an rdfbv
[371.33] Tony: thank you very much dave story's in the chat lurgy one is that lurgy one i don't know we got zero i
[378.69] Tony: think he was first thanks zero for always being here anyway that's uh we got joker vision as well
[386.69] Tony: saying it's his boring so he can get he can get lost can't he dictorious is in there
[395.17] Tony: oh i don't have a best friend you're not friends anymore you fell out
[399.25] Tony: no i just don't have a best one makes lake's life easier at christmas
[407.49] Curry: right i'm gonna carry on eating thank you all right well we'll let verden explain that although
[414.37] Curry: veiled references to robot wars
[418.21] Vernon Kerswell: okay do you want to go how how i did my um robo wars as a kid or what yeah it's exciting i actually
[425.81] Vernon Kerswell: i actually built robots uh as a kid and actually um when i was uh um growing up i think i was like
[432.53] Vernon Kerswell: 10 years old um built my first robot and then went to the midlands championship and uh absolutely
[438.37] Vernon Kerswell: wiped the table and uh won every competition and then we got through to the heats of the actual um
[444.53] Vernon Kerswell: tv show which is pretty cool my robot was called capstan the beast it had that's actually two
[449.09] Vernon Kerswell: robots one one's called capstan i had a lifting mechanism so with very very sharp spikes it would
[456.05] Vernon Kerswell: spike into things lift them up and then just carry them out and then drop them off the arena
[460.29] Vernon Kerswell: and then the other one was just um one of the flipping which would flip that up and uh yeah
[465.09] Jack: that was pretty cool so very much a robot wars fan the best robots always were the ones who looked
[471.49] Jack: like a wedge of cheese yeah yeah i remember the good old days anyway what did craig charles smell
[479.49] Vernon Kerswell: like well i never met craig charles unfortunately because we never made it through to the final
[485.09] Vernon Kerswell: of the show but um we we did the middle and heats and then we got through to the actual tv heats
[491.09] Vernon Kerswell: but then i never made it to the show because i was only like you know 13 13 years old so yeah um
[496.45] Vernon Kerswell: there are much better robots out there than mine but um you know and i was like and they just brought
[503.17] AndyRC: that show back robot wars or am i making that up no we have yeah didn't it go off again already
[510.37] Vernon Kerswell: it took over and then yeah craig charles was the best who like totally the best who's like so much
[517.17] Jack: energy and so much like yeah come on can you imagine the let's drone out robot it'll be made
[530.77] Frank: i did rampaging chariots which was like a kids kids version of robot wars where like there was
[539.41] Frank: there was uh some sort of ref cadet uh team that had like this titanium and aluminium and
[546.93] Frank: high-powered whatever it was and like as was made of like mdf and cardboard so yeah it didn't survive
[553.81] AndyRC: very long but it was entertaining so what was that your entry into rc then bernan the and then did
[563.57] AndyRC: you progress on to i mean where did the whole drone thing come from the idea and and everything
[571.49] Vernon Kerswell: oh i i think like building drones was something i was really passionate in because i actually
[575.57] Vernon Kerswell: it led on from robot wars so um when i was at university i studied computer science and then
[580.13] Vernon Kerswell: design and business so i was quite sort of like i went to china in 2007 and um learned how to do
[589.25] Vernon Kerswell: manufacturing around chen chen so that's it was kind of like the fusing of like the interest of
[593.89] Vernon Kerswell: robot wars building stuff and then also wanting to um create something and actually learning how to
[600.53] AndyRC: manufacture it you just decided to do that though you just up and went to china and or did you have
[606.61] Vernon Kerswell: a connection there well it was literally at the end of the first um and the end of the first year
[611.57] Vernon Kerswell: of uni i was thinking well what am i gonna do loads of friends were going off to ibiza some of them
[615.65] Vernon Kerswell: were going to prague and just like various holidays so i thought screw it i'm gonna go to
[620.93] Vernon Kerswell: china because i spent my one thousand five and a pound overdraft went to china and literally
[625.49] Vernon Kerswell: went to beijing and said literally take me to the nearest factory and they took me to um uh various
[630.05] Vernon Kerswell: factories around beijing and they said you're actually in the wrong area because you should
[633.41] Vernon Kerswell: go down to south china where they make all the electronics so i took a 26 hour train journey to
[638.45] Vernon Kerswell: chen chen and then big tower yeah on a train on a hard seat on a train wow that's a whole day and
[646.13] Curry: a bit on a train yeah as much as you get a seat actually you're mostly about to stand this sounds
[651.57] Curry: like the opposite of a typical teen movie where they're supposed to go to china and then blow off
[655.73] Curry: the money and go to ibiza clubbing and stuff it's just like the reverse do you want to go ibiza no
[660.21] Vernon Kerswell: just go to china to learn how to build stuff yeah yeah i actually enrolled on a three-month course
[665.65] Vernon Kerswell: in beijing to study uh chinese so it helps help to communicate with the factories oh um
[672.93] Jack: how do i say i love you like a fish finger and the rc in chinese
[681.41] Vernon Kerswell: wash it and the rc oh my god simulate me how and that's been it i've run out yeah
[690.37] Vernon Kerswell: there's four tones and and each one can mean different names
[693.09] Curry: oh my god god that's complicated so i should get the the bit out of the way because i
[701.81] Curry: invited vernon on because he had something new to talk about but we do have some slight history
[707.49] Curry: where i reviewed the uh micro drone 3.0 and i didn't like it and it was mostly about this video
[715.49] Curry: vernon that i've mentioned that you put out on your indiegogo which made everything look like
[721.89] Curry: it was better than a phantom and then what you actually got somewhere down the line was something
[727.41] Curry: very different so i mean i'm happy to talk about that in the ins and outs but what came up from
[733.41] Curry: that when we talked briefly before was about the sort of timeline that's how the crowdfunder works
[738.77] Curry: and i'm almost guessing here's our target and what you get is not necessarily target i think can you
[744.85] Vernon Kerswell: talk us through exactly how it works yeah so i mean crowdfunding is a great way to to launch
[750.53] Vernon Kerswell: something and actually create something brand new from scratch something that didn't exist before
[754.53] Vernon Kerswell: so i mean we started building microchrone in 2011 it was the first microchrone ever i mean
[759.65] Vernon Kerswell: there wouldn't have been a micro drone if we hadn't started microchrone in 2011 and then in 2012 you
[764.29] Vernon Kerswell: know all the other chinese manufacturers copied our base model and then you saw the ladybird and
[768.69] Vernon Kerswell: the hubson and all the others they're kind of cascading of drones and really the microchrone
[773.65] Vernon Kerswell: was the idea of creating something which was unlike the bigger drone that we we saw the the
[778.77] Vernon Kerswell: para ar drone was like the big sort of consumer drone and it was really popular but it's like a
[783.49] Vernon Kerswell: thousand euros um so it wasn't kind of affordable so i saw those little mini helicopters i could
[789.25] Vernon Kerswell: make a drone from this but make a mini so that was the idea of micro drone and then you know
[794.13] Vernon Kerswell: we put it out there we sold um you know 5 000 units and that was popular it didn't have any
[799.89] Vernon Kerswell: camera it was very basic it couldn't do any sort of auto leveling it just hovered basically
[804.93] Vernon Kerswell: and then um a year later we came out with the micro drone um microchrone 2.0 which was the one
[810.05] Vernon Kerswell: with the camera a little keychain camera which we added to the drone and that just completely
[813.89] Vernon Kerswell: changed it and went crazy that sold 60 000 units without even um launching it to retailers that was
[818.93] Vernon Kerswell: just putting a link on our website and then um featuring it actually that was um the the launch
[823.65] Vernon Kerswell: of tech crunch disrupt we did a demo on the stage and then it was streamed and um all the tech
[828.93] Vernon Kerswell: journalists picked it up and saying this is the most amazing little drone ever and you got to get
[832.85] Vernon Kerswell: one and that was just um that was the first like you know big big breakthrough i think it's still
[839.01] AndyRC: it's still pretty crude i think it's a shame and it's still it's still the case today that whilst
[843.81] AndyRC: while you were doing all of this they were there copying your stuff and of course can do it for
[849.33] AndyRC: cheaper and all sorts of stuff that's like still one of the biggest problems now is than just
[855.89] Vernon Kerswell: copying stuff and i don't know i guess it's still absolutely still i mean everyone's like all of the
[861.49] Vernon Kerswell: factories all of our competitors they're still watching us what we're doing so we gotta be really
[865.41] Vernon Kerswell: careful when we actually announce products and it's the same with every consumer product now
[869.57] Vernon Kerswell: you've got all these guys walking around ces with their phones and clipboards and saying oh yeah get
[874.37] Vernon Kerswell: get details on that and stuff these are all like competitors and one thing it can be good to you
[879.25] Vernon Kerswell: know competition is good because it um you know gets more people you know each one gets better and
[887.89] Vernon Kerswell: better so that's good but it does mean you're vulnerable of being ripped off very quickly i
[891.89] Vernon Kerswell: mean when the when um when the hubson launched it was like like thirty dollars like that was less
[897.09] Vernon Kerswell: than our production cost for the three for the 2.0 and it's like how were they doing it like the
[902.61] Vernon Kerswell: only way they can do it is by i'm using super cheap labor you know which is really ethically
[908.05] Vernon Kerswell: dodgy or they can use cheaper materials or they can just ship it from china where there's no you
[914.21] Vernon Kerswell: know no tax or duties or anything like that and you know that's how can you compete with that you
[919.81] Vernon Kerswell: know you can't so you gotta you gotta develop and innovate and come out with new technology really
[924.13] Vernon Kerswell: really quickly now so that's that's where mike shone's been really successful because we had the
[928.13] Vernon Kerswell: 1.0 2.0 3.0 and we're coming out with a new bottle which is going to come out pretty soon which is
[935.01] Vernon Kerswell: another step up from our previous model and um yeah this is the video i'm talking about crowdfunding
[941.25] Vernon Kerswell: so um crowdfunding was a great way to launch our product we had some great ideas for 3.0 we wanted
[946.45] Vernon Kerswell: to make a drone which was a step up from the 2.0 so instead of having that little um fiddly wires
[952.05] Vernon Kerswell: which had the 2.0 to connect the camera we designed a really beautiful magnetic system which clips on
[957.25] Vernon Kerswell: without any wires at all and that was that was pretty breakthrough that was that was really
[962.05] Vernon Kerswell: innovative it had a neodymium magnets which were really powerful tiny lightweight magnets
[967.17] Vernon Kerswell: i had live streaming sd card it had reversible polarity so you could put it both ways
[972.93] Vernon Kerswell: uh we designed a prop guard for it so you could actually protect it from around it
[976.85] Vernon Kerswell: and um we had a 720p hd camera which was um the best camera module we had out there um at that
[984.45] Vernon Kerswell: time obviously this is like four years ago now so and the cameras have got much better and um and
[990.45] Vernon Kerswell: then we put on on indiegogo and uh launched it and that was it you know it was really really
[995.17] Vernon Kerswell: popular and that um yeah lots of people supported that to uh to fill in a little bit more of that
[1001.49] AndyRC: story though there was you went for another option before indiegogo right involving the
[1007.41] AndyRC: the television maybe when you were just saying that's right when you were just sitting there
[1013.73] AndyRC: saying 60 000 units i thought hmm this sounds like a very sort of like a pitch almost to a
[1020.37] Vernon Kerswell: sharp tongue called dragon's den yeah i was on dragon's den in 2009 yeah so i got back from
[1027.17] Vernon Kerswell: china like a year later after a new year later i designed this little thing called the terawatts
[1030.93] Vernon Kerswell: which is like a little flying helicopter with a contra rotation blade um you know like the pcoz
[1035.73] Vernon Kerswell: had a single blade i designed a contra rotation one where one spun that way and one spun that way
[1040.05] AndyRC: and it would hover and that was um i was really surprised that um that nobody went for it but
[1048.93] AndyRC: wasn't it uh is it peter jones that um has got involvement in horizon hobby or something like
[1055.25] AndyRC: that yeah blades toys yeah oh yeah he saw you as a threat which is another conflict which is
[1061.01] AndyRC: interesting because on the last series of dragon's den he um i don't know if you saw it but uh
[1068.29] AndyRC: some drone safe company went in there and he sort of went this is a great idea and invested into it
[1074.37] AndyRC: so uh yeah and then maybe uh perhaps he he maybe regretted not going with it after if it has seen
[1081.81] AndyRC: the uh the success of the indiegogo campaign perhaps yeah well actually though it actually
[1087.25] Vernon Kerswell: worked out pretty well i mean it was shown to six million people on on national television
[1091.97] Vernon Kerswell: and um we manufactured we we managed to get enough orders to manufacture that product
[1096.29] Vernon Kerswell: actually i went on the dragon's number two products one was the terawatts that was when we
[1100.77] Vernon Kerswell: actually went ahead to manufacture and the other one was the helicopter car so we designed a car
[1105.33] Vernon Kerswell: and a helicopter in one but um we we didn't get enough interest from that so we didn't manufacture
[1109.73] Vernon Kerswell: it so um but that was pretty cool that was that was an idea where we'd drive along drive along
[1113.81] Vernon Kerswell: and then take off and actually since then other manufacturers have actually taken on that concept
[1117.97] Vernon Kerswell: and actually made it but i don't think you know i don't they haven't been very popular from what i
[1123.17] AndyRC: could see yeah i thought seeing a more more of a novelty yeah more gimmick really yeah so so to go
[1130.53] AndyRC: back to wane's question so we're talking about indiegogo um and wane's question is regarding
[1136.45] AndyRC: there was a video put up it was sort of like a a show reel of um you know what what we're trying
[1142.53] AndyRC: to do but i think um the impression that i got from it was like oh well the product kind of
[1149.41] AndyRC: doesn't exist yet this is sort of a um this is sort of like what what we're looking to get at
[1156.53] AndyRC: the end of it but when when i saw that because i saw i saw that video before there was a product
[1163.49] AndyRC: yeah and then i looked at the price and i i sort of said to myself well there's no there's no way
[1169.57] AndyRC: that it's going to come out looking like a phantom what whatever the case you know for that price
[1175.01] AndyRC: kind of thing but i think um what wane's talking about is maybe people did think that is that what
[1180.29] AndyRC: you were saying wane or is that not your issue with it my issue with the whole product is that
[1186.21] Curry: video now i got i got the drone quite late because the magazine sent it to me and asked me to write
[1191.33] Curry: a piece for it um and it it kind of rang a bell with me so when i had a look for it around the
[1197.25] Curry: net i found that video and i was like what this is this is crazy and you know we're coming here
[1203.09] Curry: from the angle of we know quads and what's possible with the technology we're talking about
[1208.85] Curry: but other people don't and i i made a suggestion that it felt to me slightly dishonest about what
[1216.05] Curry: you were sort of presenting as surreal versus what you actually get i will say this actually if we'd
[1223.73] Vernon Kerswell: got that gimbal done and that little micro gimbal if we'd actually managed to make that work really
[1228.29] Vernon Kerswell: well that video would have been very accurate because we all that footage is 720p video and
[1234.13] Vernon Kerswell: um if we'd made that gimbal and it worked as we as we'd expected it to do then um the stable
[1241.25] Vernon Kerswell: stabilization would have been really good and we would have had smooth hd video and the problem is
[1246.45] Vernon Kerswell: um the gimbal was um didn't work out quite as you know during the development process the gimbal
[1253.01] Vernon Kerswell: needed um a lot more refinement and um so what we had to do is we had to choose a design which
[1258.29] Vernon Kerswell: would retrofit onto the drone we shipped and what happened is um we had to change it from a two axis
[1264.77] Vernon Kerswell: gimbal to a one axis gimbal and then the end result was it was okay it would it would stabilize
[1270.45] Vernon Kerswell: it in one axis and there was lag which was um um notable which we'd planned to um uh smooth out
[1277.97] Vernon Kerswell: with eis and that would have done you know a reasonable job for the one axis but um i would
[1284.61] Vernon Kerswell: have really liked if we'd made the two axis because then we would have had uh hd live stream
[1290.37] Vernon Kerswell: and the two axis gimbal all in one that's really what we formed and i think what you said i think
[1297.09] Vernon Kerswell: andy's um a review of the of the original video was actually pretty fair you know we started out
[1303.17] Vernon Kerswell: with one aim was to make a we had this idea to create a product with lots of different features
[1308.69] Vernon Kerswell: and it was way ahead of what was on the market at that time you know we had so many really cool
[1313.33] Vernon Kerswell: stuff in there so much cool stuff like the boat where the battery clips in the way the camera
[1317.49] Vernon Kerswell: connects had the all those functions of the live stream the the sd card and the modularity
[1324.05] Vernon Kerswell: so the way the arms just clip out without any soldering uh the the easy way to change that
[1328.93] Vernon Kerswell: um the the way you can change from different speed settings that's slow fast insane and a few
[1335.17] Vernon Kerswell: different um options and ways to configure it an app a really beautiful designed app uh i hope
[1341.09] Vernon Kerswell: you've all seen that it's a really beautiful design and um it's much much better than what
[1345.57] Vernon Kerswell: you see on any of the current and sort of small things out there you know with the poorly designed
[1350.45] Vernon Kerswell: user interface um so those elements of the of the micron 3.0 um we delivered it and it was fantastic
[1356.53] Vernon Kerswell: and you know it works really really well but the stabilization that's the only thing which
[1361.09] Vernon Kerswell: shouldn't we didn't really work out and i needed more work so um i think if we nailed that gimbal
[1368.45] Vernon Kerswell: it would have been a much better product i mean if you look at products like the telo i mean
[1371.89] Vernon Kerswell: the telo now um um even though it has a fixed camera that still results in smooth video which
[1379.33] Vernon Kerswell: is good but um there's a lot of problems with telo obviously still because it's only a live
[1385.17] Vernon Kerswell: streaming no hd camera no sd card but um uh with that electronic civilization it works really well
[1392.37] AndyRC: so i also think at the time as well i mean it's quite easy to say now but at the time i remember
[1399.97] AndyRC: when uh micro drone 3 was coming out there were a lot of people trying to make these little tiny
[1408.85] AndyRC: gimbals work um i remember like people trying to use the little tiny brushless motors that we use
[1415.57] AndyRC: on micro copters now to try and sort of get a three axis gimbal on a mobius style camera
[1422.29] AndyRC: and i think every anytime somebody tried it the camera was just always too light and regardless
[1430.37] AndyRC: to um the fact that it was stabilized and level you'd get shakes you get vibrations and in in
[1437.25] AndyRC: the end i just think there there was a limit to you know what can be stabilized somehow somehow
[1444.45] AndyRC: dji have cracked that haven't well they do both don't they i believe dji do um uh the the image
[1452.61] AndyRC: stabilization as well as the the three axis and obviously i've got a lot more resource and uh
[1458.05] AndyRC: yeah no one else seems to have cracked that i think the mavica has probably the small smallest
[1462.85] AndyRC: one to have a gimbal or a spark so um yeah i've got some exciting news for you okay uh we've
[1471.25] Vernon Kerswell: cracked it so we've cracked it making a two axis gimbal using a brushed motor not a brushless
[1476.37] Vernon Kerswell: motor but a brushed motor and uh now yeah that smoothness and the anti-vibrations uh we've done
[1482.29] Vernon Kerswell: it and it's um and uh we can make it in a micro now so so what actually happened because i never
[1488.45] AndyRC: got to check out the the gimbal so did you release a gimbal uh to the to the indiegogo
[1494.69] Vernon Kerswell: people uh so we did yeah um so originally the idea was to have a two axis gimbal and it would
[1499.89] Vernon Kerswell: fold up so i've actually got a three point over here um so the original idea was the gimbal would
[1504.61] Vernon Kerswell: would um sit below the drone and it would um it would um sort of retract when you don't take off
[1510.85] Vernon Kerswell: yeah and um when you fly forward obviously and left right it would stabilize and um we used um
[1517.41] Vernon Kerswell: we chose our brushed servos to do that and um what we found is it was too much vibrations
[1523.65] Vernon Kerswell: um the vibrations the micro vibrations from the drone would be amplified as it moved down the arm
[1529.57] Vernon Kerswell: so um the end result was pretty shaky and it did actually work it worked to a certain extent but
[1535.09] Vernon Kerswell: it was just not at the quality or was unacceptable for me because um what i wanted it was to have
[1541.49] Vernon Kerswell: smooth video and that's what i wanted for the micro drone 3 was have smooth hd video at an
[1547.25] Vernon Kerswell: affordable price and it couldn't do that so we had to um i think it's update eight on our indiegogo
[1552.93] Vernon Kerswell: campaign um we explained the problem of the gimbal we'd had and we came up with three alternatives
[1558.69] Vernon Kerswell: um you can actually check that out on indiegogo and we came up with three alternatives which would
[1563.33] Vernon Kerswell: um would make this um gimbal work and uh one was using um uh one axis gimbal uh on a set of arms
[1571.17] Vernon Kerswell: and the second was a um uh one axis gimbal on a um integrated with the camera and um
[1580.37] Vernon Kerswell: and then the third was the original design um which had a shaky video and um we actually designed
[1587.33] Vernon Kerswell: started to go to option two because it was the most smooth out of all three and we manufactured
[1592.37] Vernon Kerswell: that and we shipped it to all of our backers who did buy that there are only 8 000 of those
[1597.33] Vernon Kerswell: people who bought the gimbal so um out of those 8 000 they all received it and um but the the
[1604.45] Vernon Kerswell: challenge was you know that was one of those painful things about the micro drone 3.0 project
[1607.89] Vernon Kerswell: it was it was um having to change that when we'd originally started out with a um plan to have a
[1613.65] Vernon Kerswell: two axis gimbal and uh one of the challenges was making it work on the micro drone 3 and retro
[1619.33] Vernon Kerswell: fitting that that change of design into the hardware which had already shipped to the backers
[1624.45] Vernon Kerswell: and we did actually manage to ship that and make it but it meant having this really clumsy little
[1629.57] Vernon Kerswell: wire which was really fiddly to put on and um it worked but it's not the ideal design we would
[1636.29] Curry: have liked there were two shames about the gimbal first is i one of the things i did like about
[1643.25] Curry: uh what you came up with was your battery connector for putting on the camera and it's
[1647.33] Curry: like this is great you can just put it on and it powers up the camera and stuff but of course you
[1651.17] Curry: had that extra cable just to fix the point yeah and the other thing i guess which would have been
[1660.69] Curry: much nicer in retrospect was to have some sort of potentiometer on the control because what you had
[1665.89] Curry: is you flick a gimbal switch and then at that point you've got your left stick still works but
[1671.97] Curry: your right stick becomes a gimbal control so as long as you're in the right place and you're
[1676.13] Curry: you're not drifting you're okay but it was true and your review was like what the hell were you
[1681.09] Vernon Kerswell: thinking your review was like why on earth did they do this what what was the point of making
[1686.45] Vernon Kerswell: it like this and and they're the most stupid thing to do to make it like that and i'll tell you why
[1691.57] Vernon Kerswell: and that and it's a very simple explanation because we'd always ship the drone and the controller
[1695.57] Vernon Kerswell: and and what we had to do is we had to make it make the gimbal work with all of the drones
[1701.17] Vernon Kerswell: that had shipped and the only thing we could work with was the clicking switch on the handset
[1705.97] Vernon Kerswell: and the right stick on the controller so that's the only way we could do it otherwise we would
[1710.45] Vernon Kerswell: have had to have designed a whole brand new controller and then the cost of doing that
[1715.49] Vernon Kerswell: opening a second mold which is you know for those controllers it's about a hundred thousand pounds
[1719.89] Vernon Kerswell: to open a huge injection mold for that we would have run out of cash and no one would have received
[1725.81] Vernon Kerswell: it so we had to make it work within the existing um product that had shipped and um it was pretty
[1731.57] Vernon Kerswell: clever how how we managed to make it work because i think many other crowdfunded products would
[1738.21] Vernon Kerswell: have failed and they would have given up at that point but in fact they were able to make it work
[1742.61] Vernon Kerswell: and actually ship it because um you know it's more testing for the engineering team is that actually
[1747.01] AndyRC: sort of um an expectation of of crowdfunding as well is that the people who are back in you do
[1753.57] AndyRC: they um is there an understanding that this actually you could back this but actually it
[1760.29] AndyRC: may not you know be a success then maybe is that like all part of the crowdfunding risk and stuff
[1769.25] Vernon Kerswell: well i think there's a couple of really good points there you know the first thing is that
[1773.17] Vernon Kerswell: um a lot of the microgen backers are people who love drones and they love the technology and they
[1777.97] Vernon Kerswell: wanted to see something cool come out and um as a drone user myself i was wanting to create
[1785.49] Vernon Kerswell: something which is really cool which i would i would use and so there's an element of wanting to
[1790.29] Vernon Kerswell: help support something to create it for the first time second thing is um you know people get a
[1797.25] Vernon Kerswell: discount on the actual product which ships um you see now um the microgen the retail price if you
[1802.69] Vernon Kerswell: want to buy it um when we after we done um launched to the public it was 200 but many of
[1809.49] Vernon Kerswell: the early backers they were able to get it for 125 and um that's actually the the manufacturing
[1815.09] Vernon Kerswell: cost of what it costs us to produce so as a thank you we were able to offer at that price
[1819.81] AndyRC: and um that's that's one of the purposes essentially it's essentially a loan then and
[1825.17] AndyRC: you actually don't you don't profit off it it's that's what it costs to get the product out there
[1831.25] Vernon Kerswell: exactly you know we spent hundreds of thousands of pounds on just tooling we had to make like
[1835.97] Vernon Kerswell: dozens of injection molded tools for the for every part of the drone and um those are big chunks of
[1842.13] Vernon Kerswell: steel which need to be milled down with these great machines and um you know if we were
[1846.29] Vernon Kerswell: manufacturing that in the uk that would probably cost up to a million pounds but because we were
[1850.77] Vernon Kerswell: able to manufacture this in china these there are companies in the whole south china which actually
[1856.85] Vernon Kerswell: specialize in making tools so you can just send them the um the geometry that the industrial
[1862.85] Vernon Kerswell: drawings and um they're put on the machine they'll just cut out a mold for you which is fantastic
[1869.49] Frank: but did it was the controller i haven't followed it so much but the the the original controller
[1876.69] Frank: that it did ship with at that time were you not planning for there to be a gimbal control then
[1881.57] Frank: or did the gimbal control come later like in your sort of design phase i guess well the original
[1888.13] Vernon Kerswell: idea was to have a control by the app so you can control it within the app and that's it does work
[1893.65] Vernon Kerswell: with the app so if you connect it with the app and um use the gimbal and you can control the
[1898.61] Vernon Kerswell: gimbal within the app but it's clumsy and and um people people did want it with the controller
[1905.33] Curry: it's because you have to take your hand off those and put it on the thing which is equivalent to
[1908.93] Curry: taking your hand you still lose your right stick essentially yeah exactly yeah so so from there
[1917.25] AndyRC: then we've got a new product then and is it i take well actually there's another thing i think that
[1924.05] AndyRC: we should talk about as well because from from that point in time you could you could go into
[1928.85] AndyRC: shops well in the uk certainly and see micro drone in the shop so yeah i'm guessing that uh you know
[1936.29] AndyRC: you struck a deal with some retailers at the same time or was the buzz of the indiegogo
[1943.01] AndyRC: campaign the success i mean you could you'd say that was a huge success and also how how
[1948.45] AndyRC: how did that happen as well how did it get so much uh buzz to to get that amount of backers as well
[1954.85] Vernon Kerswell: just because i think i think the first thing about the retail um you know we um retail buyers are
[1960.77] Vernon Kerswell: very very piggy and they will only um sell something which is the best i mean they won't
[1965.65] Vernon Kerswell: they won't obviously they'll they won't sell products which which they don't um you know
[1971.09] Vernon Kerswell: prove um so we um we we shipped to our backers and then we went um and uh said right well where
[1979.09] Vernon Kerswell: what's next so let's um let's see if we can sell this into stores so we um we realized the best
[1984.21] Vernon Kerswell: part of micro drone 3.0 was the drone itself and the camera um it didn't have a gimbal but that
[1990.37] Vernon Kerswell: didn't really matter because the drone itself is actually um a really really good product and
[1994.69] Vernon Kerswell: the way you fly it i mean we've developed i think and i'm i'm already biased but i think
[1999.01] Vernon Kerswell: micro drone 3.0 is flies the best is the best micro on the market in terms of flight stability
[2004.53] Vernon Kerswell: and responsiveness so we were really hard on the flight controls and when you fly it you can fly
[2009.41] Vernon Kerswell: outside you can fly indoors and it's really good and then responsive and the way it works and the
[2014.93] Vernon Kerswell: battery power the way it'll drain it right down to zero before it cuts out and all of that has been
[2021.49] Vernon Kerswell: developed over a number of years so in terms of flying it was you know a really really good
[2026.21] Vernon Kerswell: product and um the camera itself was a 720p and we'd up in the in the six months after um the first
[2034.53] Vernon Kerswell: batch of production we'd upgraded that to a uh wide angle lens camera and improved the responsiveness
[2040.53] Vernon Kerswell: of the wi-fi and um we shipped um these um samples to all the retailers and um they they
[2046.61] Vernon Kerswell: liked it and we we sold it in um uh dixon stores um in uh in selfages in america we were in
[2054.53] Vernon Kerswell: friars electronics uh bnh photo in the middle east we were in the virgin mega stores and um
[2060.53] Vernon Kerswell: yeah it sold hundreds of stores around the world and this was in 2016 uh and uh and part of 2017
[2068.45] Vernon Kerswell: and it sold really well because it was just you know they'd all seen the little drone they'd seen
[2072.69] Vernon Kerswell: there's no um user user friendly design they were like they'd break and they'd bite they'd crash it
[2078.69] Vernon Kerswell: they'd bin it so customers were really angry the way we could just change an arm or just you know
[2083.09] Vernon Kerswell: swap out the battery without having to solder it together or connect any little thing it worked
[2087.41] Vernon Kerswell: really well just as it is that the drone and the camera so retailers um really liked it and it
[2093.25] Vernon Kerswell: sold really well in the retail um but obviously the the gimbal was kind of a sort of after um
[2099.49] Vernon Kerswell: modification which wasn't ideal and but as it was you know the drone and the camera was a pretty good
[2105.25] AndyRC: drone and it sold very well in retail so i take it from from the success of the the retail that's
[2113.57] AndyRC: that's where you are able you're not doing crowdfunding for the next project i take it
[2120.29] Vernon Kerswell: um so actually we um you know i think crowdfunding is is a very very amazing way to launch a product
[2125.97] Vernon Kerswell: and it validates it very quickly so you know if microjone 3.0 hadn't been um popular if people
[2132.29] Vernon Kerswell: didn't like the stuff we'd come up with they wouldn't have backed it and um you know like
[2138.37] Vernon Kerswell: just the fact that it could fly upside down was pretty pretty cool and and people like that and
[2142.61] Vernon Kerswell: the fact that they could get it for 125 dollars and you know it's very popular and um we had a
[2147.33] Vernon Kerswell: great plan for it and we wanted to come up with some really cool stuff um i think what people
[2152.45] Vernon Kerswell: really want is three things they want video which is hd so you know 720 or 1080p now they want
[2160.77] Vernon Kerswell: stabilized smooth videos they want buttery smooth video they want shaky footage and um that's what
[2166.53] Vernon Kerswell: all of the current microjones have out there you know since microjone 3 there's been an epidemic
[2171.41] Vernon Kerswell: of small drones and they all have these little tiny key chain camera quality videos and with
[2176.85] Vernon Kerswell: shaky footage and they've just sort of got a cheap drone and just put a cheap camera on it
[2181.89] Vernon Kerswell: and people buy it thinking that they're going to get smooth video like like a professional drone
[2186.29] Vernon Kerswell: and they can't so if we can create a small affordable drone with a smooth high definition
[2192.53] Vernon Kerswell: video which you know stabilizes it with a proper gimbal uh that's what people want and um yeah i
[2198.69] Vernon Kerswell: think that's have you got have you got any to hand you can show us oh so our next model um we're
[2205.33] Vernon Kerswell: going to be coming out with it in them in probably january we're going to be releasing that i don't
[2211.01] Vernon Kerswell: i can't show it today because um just because it would um just because it's not ready but
[2216.93] Tony: any other ones and what what what size are they what what are you talking micro how how big oh
[2222.37] Vernon Kerswell: yeah palm size um you know uh the same size as the micro drone people want a small drone they can fly
[2227.41] Vernon Kerswell: indoors and you know things like the the dj spark that's a great drone and one of the best consumer
[2232.61] Vernon Kerswell: best standing consumer drones but the problem is it's still too heavy it's um it's not suitable
[2237.49] Vernon Kerswell: flying indoors and it's not really um it's not really user-friendly for kids and for um for
[2244.29] Vernon Kerswell: you know for small compact use you know people want a drone which is um like i'd say like 150
[2251.57] Vernon Kerswell: grams is the ideal weight for a drone and um that's uh that's what we've been working on
[2257.41] Curry: all right so can you tell us some of the specs like so you've mentioned it's a two-axis gimbal
[2262.37] Curry: and it's brushed so i always get a little bit aware of that though this because sort of servo
[2266.21] Curry: based gimbals i think if that's the old days and you're they're always a little bit clunky and
[2271.33] Curry: bang before brush just like the pros were using belt driven gimbals so have you you've actually
[2276.53] Curry: got a sort of a brushed motor gimbal that's properly smooth then exactly so there's there's
[2281.89] Vernon Kerswell: that's the point of the most innovative part of our new model is the gimbal and at the moment
[2286.93] Vernon Kerswell: drones with gimbals they have to have brushless motors because of the way the motor controllers
[2291.49] Vernon Kerswell: work with speed controllers they need speed controllers and brushes brushes motors to
[2295.89] Vernon Kerswell: keep it smooth but um since then there's um a new component manufacturer which has come out with a
[2302.29] Vernon Kerswell: motor controller which can drive a brushed motor in the same way as a brushes motor the same
[2306.45] Vernon Kerswell: smoothness basically it zaps it one way with a pulse and it zaps it the other way with the pulse
[2312.13] Vernon Kerswell: and then it repeats it thousands of times a second like 15 000 times a second until the
[2317.01] Vernon Kerswell: the brush motor is is perfectly smooth it could move fluidly up um up and down and so when you
[2324.13] Vernon Kerswell: put into a two-axis gimbal it can work just like a brushless motor that's um that's the big
[2329.09] Vernon Kerswell: innovation of our new model and um that's how we were able to get it working like a proper gimbal
[2334.37] Curry: and you don't need the ecs for it presumably then correct there's no ease no ecs so does that mean
[2340.45] Curry: it's also brushed motors still uh yes this uses brush motors yeah okay yeah and the major advantage
[2348.45] Vernon Kerswell: of that you know brush motors are fantastic and they're they're they're very underrated because
[2353.57] Vernon Kerswell: brushed motors are really small like they're super tiny and they're low cost so having brushed
[2360.61] Vernon Kerswell: motors for the propulsion and the gimbal you know you the bomber instead of like is spark is like
[2365.49] Vernon Kerswell: what a 600 dollar drone with the controller you know we're able to take everything from a spark
[2370.37] Vernon Kerswell: into the functionality and they're making it super tiny and make it small and light and affordable
[2375.25] Vernon Kerswell: and um you know if we can make that for under 100 under 200 bucks then i'm i think that's
[2379.73] Tony: that's uh i think that's a game changer i think well i hope andy gets one so we can actually see
[2386.85] AndyRC: yeah yeah one of the main complaints i get regarding uh what's jack burning
[2393.57] Tony: yeah what are you saying light for to yourself there's no swearing there's no there's nothing
[2399.57] Tony: gone off subject we haven't talked about lawnmower so clearly set light to itself that was i reckon
[2407.09] AndyRC: that was his uh taxes or something no one of the biggest complaints i get regarding uh brushed
[2416.21] AndyRC: motors there's the fact that they wear out now i've not experienced this uh you know what andy
[2421.65] Curry: i've never worn out a brushed motor either and i i did a whole like good few weeks of racing with
[2428.85] Curry: a tiny little 40 mil drone with brushed motors every week putting like 15 wipers through it and
[2434.93] Curry: i didn't manage to kill a motor once so i'm not i'm not against it and in something lightweight
[2440.21] AndyRC: do you know what i think it is wayne i think i think the thing that can kill a brush motor is
[2446.53] AndyRC: running them whilst there's tension against it so let's just say um i don't know you've crashed
[2453.41] AndyRC: your upside down and the thing and the thing's still armed the motor's gonna burn out and i
[2458.45] AndyRC: just want i mean the first thing i do when i crash any model is disarm and i i just wonder
[2463.81] AndyRC: the because because people are saying oh i've got this brushed quadcopter and i've had to replace
[2469.57] AndyRC: the motors once every two weeks and i'm thinking i've got brush i've got copters that are a year
[2475.25] AndyRC: old that i you know i've flown a good amount of time that i've never had to replace a motor and
[2480.53] AndyRC: i just wonder um if it's that you know if i can actually tell you about um the reason and um
[2487.25] Vernon Kerswell: the main reason we've researched this a lot because all our microphones have used brushed
[2491.09] Vernon Kerswell: motors um from the beginning the major reason for wearing out brushed motors is the um the shaft
[2499.01] Vernon Kerswell: and what happens is um they um people like experienced pilots they never crash their
[2503.57] Vernon Kerswell: drones so um they're perfect and they'll last a long time but a lot of you new users they will
[2509.01] Vernon Kerswell: um crash the drone and um and even a slight knock into a wall and that will just bend the shaft
[2516.77] Vernon Kerswell: ever so slightly but and enough to um cause a bit of tension so um when it starts spinning
[2524.61] Vernon Kerswell: it's spinning at an angle and so what happens it it's it wears the motors out almost like within
[2529.97] Vernon Kerswell: a couple of minutes my washing machine never crashes yeah so actually what we did do is then
[2537.33] Vernon Kerswell: we worked with our motor manufacturer chowlee motor manufacturer and we've come up with a motor
[2543.57] Vernon Kerswell: with a 1.2 millimeter shaft and that's much stronger and um it's very um unlikely to to
[2549.41] Vernon Kerswell: break it in the same way as the one millimeter shaft does oh that's really interesting that
[2553.89] AndyRC: will probably explain why yeah because i wasn't really crashing a lot but then people were telling
[2558.61] AndyRC: me oh i brushed this rubber and it just wasn't making sense to me but yeah um so so it's the
[2564.77] AndyRC: yeah because the props just push on to the little tiny shaft yeah so they're getting bent and then
[2570.93] AndyRC: when it's bent it's sort of creating resistance and the so it's people so that's so yeah uh okay
[2579.17] Vernon Kerswell: not too hot because super hot when it's um even if it's bent ever so slightly um the resistance
[2585.01] Vernon Kerswell: when you're when you're spinning a motor at 25 000 rpm it just gets hot so quickly and then it
[2590.45] AndyRC: dies it just it just can't take it yeah oh no that's interesting you're good at bending shafts
[2599.81] AndyRC: i knew jack would have to keys like this this has been far too serious session the beavers have
[2607.09] Curry: butted he said right we'll start a fire because i had another question coming from vernon so i guess
[2615.57] Curry: another thing that was missing and that's why the gimbal so hard to use on micro drone 3 was of course
[2620.53] Curry: position hold now yeah lots of advances here some sort of optical flow sensor or something because
[2625.57] Curry: you're talking about indoor flying so i'm guessing you haven't got anything gps but if you've got
[2629.25] Vernon Kerswell: something to position hold it actually that's the second second um that thing that customers want
[2633.81] Vernon Kerswell: in a drone they want it to fly autonomously so fly completely hands off they want it to have a
[2638.37] Vernon Kerswell: gimbal with stabilized video and they want high definition so um the new drone has actually um got
[2644.37] Vernon Kerswell: both of those and we're using a qualcomm based um uh framework which does use um you know uh
[2652.21] Vernon Kerswell: optical flow and altitude so you let go of the sticks it will just sit there in the sky
[2656.29] Vernon Kerswell: and um yeah that's um that's a big step up and because you know micro drone 3 is all manual so
[2661.89] Vernon Kerswell: there's a bit of a learning curve to flying that and um that's probably one of the reasons why it's
[2666.21] Vernon Kerswell: so hard for a lot of people to fly for the first time because you know one of the biggest bug bears
[2671.57] Vernon Kerswell: has been like oh this is so hard to fly i can't fly it and um and the video is is shaky because
[2676.61] Vernon Kerswell: it's always moving about so we realized this and um we came up with a fully autonomous flight
[2681.17] Vernon Kerswell: controller for it and this is a custom built one it's um we took part of qualcomm system for this
[2687.33] Vernon Kerswell: but um it's uh still um built by us to um make a into a micro because um you know you'll see it
[2695.41] Vernon Kerswell: there's existing qualcomm drones out there like the adobe and the mark drone they fly really stable
[2701.17] Vernon Kerswell: and they're really good but they're they require um very um large systems and power systems so
[2707.41] Vernon Kerswell: it was taking that and applying it to a micro that's what we've done yeah they've got like
[2712.45] AndyRC: umbrella chips in them and all sorts aren't they like stuff you find in a mobile phone
[2718.05] AndyRC: and that's why yeah expensive so so is this this next product is it going to be more of a
[2723.49] Vernon Kerswell: premium price than i take it no we want to we wanted to make it affordable so our target is
[2728.69] Vernon Kerswell: to make it under $200 that's um that's the challenge i should be yeah because i mean you'd
[2733.33] AndyRC: look at derby you know those sort of ones mind you those are brushless isn't there'll be like
[2738.45] Jack: a harry potter thing like it gives him like a scarf or a sock or something don't i don't
[2745.09] Tony: mention the socks it's gonna trigger jack again fx node wants to know what what flight controller
[2751.33] Vernon Kerswell: is in this thing so it's um it's a it's developed by us um we actually designed the flight controller
[2757.97] Vernon Kerswell: i actually got one here actually hold on say the verden flight controller any of you guys
[2762.69] Jack: wonder what's in the pot anyone know what's in the pot lead there people in the chat have been
[2769.25] Vernon Kerswell: like it's due this is the uh this is the flight controller for our new model it's actually three
[2774.29] Vernon Kerswell: of them here it's gonna say it's bigger than i thought it would be stop the pcb come on
[2781.49] Vernon Kerswell: it's not populated yet i've populated these two but this this one um this one still is populating
[2786.77] Vernon Kerswell: but um it's got all the technology and like everything every sensor and and um so you can
[2793.09] Vernon Kerswell: just hover on the spot and um yeah that's uh that's what people want in a drone they want it to fly
[2798.05] Vernon Kerswell: like a proper drone like like a big phantom or or a spark or a or a mavic but um it's taking that
[2804.29] Vernon Kerswell: and making it super tiny and that's been the challenge for the last uh two years so how do
[2810.13] Frank: you think this this new one's going to compare to the um the telo um because that's going to be the
[2814.93] Vernon Kerswell: one i think lots of people are going to compare it to yeah so telo is a great little drone i think
[2820.05] Vernon Kerswell: telo is dgi's answer to microjone 3 really and um they they realized that they had to come up
[2825.81] Vernon Kerswell: with a micro because you know microjone 3 did so well in retail um in terms of telo there's a lot
[2832.53] Vernon Kerswell: of limitations as well it hovers really good so it'll sit there in the sky and and fly is really
[2837.41] Vernon Kerswell: good um but the biggest problem is it the stabilization of the camera it's um it uses
[2844.05] Vernon Kerswell: eis it's the first thing is it's a fixed camera so you're quite limited in in the quality of the
[2849.09] Vernon Kerswell: video it uses eis as using windowing so it reduces that from a 1080 down to 720 then uses
[2855.89] Vernon Kerswell: windowing as it does the roll and um and part of it for the pitch um so the problem is it doesn't
[2861.49] Vernon Kerswell: have a gimbal and that's that's the biggest limitation because when you're outside it will
[2865.41] Vernon Kerswell: just um if you're being buffed by the wind it will um uh tilt at beyond the angle of the eis
[2872.53] Vernon Kerswell: and then you always have to have a smaller resolution which is the biggest um uh downside
[2878.05] Vernon Kerswell: to telo so um stabilization perfect um uh the smooth video you know they get that with the eis
[2886.37] Vernon Kerswell: and coming out with the eis and the gimbal together uh that will be um that will be um
[2892.13] Vernon Kerswell: what people want and that will give you really good footage and then smooth video
[2895.65] Tony: okay another question the pots to your right hand side what is in them oh that's actually
[2905.97] Vernon Kerswell: a lot of our testing rigs and we use that for testing the camera so and making sure that the
[2910.13] Vernon Kerswell: camera is um you know we program it and we um test it so it's got little um um colors and stuff
[2917.09] Vernon Kerswell: which tests the lens um and yeah it's a clean there you go people it's clean apart yeah it's
[2930.21] Vernon Kerswell: actually um it's um it's uh resistant to any um rf and it's also um it's got multiple tests
[2937.81] AndyRC: in there we call it the test rig yeah i was going to say i can see some sort of screens below them
[2943.25] Vernon Kerswell: as well is that the yeah that's what you're writing on a raspberry pi that it automates all
[2948.53] Vernon Kerswell: of the tests so you plug it in my pie yeah yeah so you put the drone in there um plug it in
[2955.25] Vernon Kerswell: and then it will um run the um connection it'll set the password it'll do some tests it'll test
[2960.05] Vernon Kerswell: the camera um it'll test the imu all that kind of stuff and then and then once it's passed all
[2965.09] Curry: those tests and it's ready to fly really cool so january and it sorry is this going to be
[2973.41] Curry: crowdfunded again or is this just something you're you're working on and you you've got the money
[2978.05] Curry: from the previous stuff to develop this and launch it well i think crowdfunding i think we will go
[2983.25] Vernon Kerswell: and launch it again on crowdfunding i think you know overall i mean like you'll see some
[2988.13] Vernon Kerswell: things some clone plates on social media and that's completely normal you see a baby crowdfunding
[2992.53] Vernon Kerswell: overall i think it was a really good experience and um a lot of backers were really excited about
[2998.85] Vernon Kerswell: the microchip 3 and they really liked it you know there were there were a lot of good reviews and
[3002.53] Vernon Kerswell: there were some um bad reviews but you know overall um people liked it and that was that
[3008.77] Vernon Kerswell: that was the and we managed to ship it so that was um very positive and i thought i think the
[3013.49] Vernon Kerswell: fact that we were able to deliver it is is a big thing and then you know and deliver a product
[3019.33] Vernon Kerswell: which did you know a lot of the the key cool things that we we um intended to do so um yeah
[3026.93] Vernon Kerswell: i think um you know i think we'll launch a new current funding campaign on indiegogo and um
[3032.37] Vernon Kerswell: you know we'll be i'm engaging with everybody you know with the community answering questions and
[3037.81] Vernon Kerswell: um that's what i like doing actually jumping on online and just speak to everyone and there
[3042.29] Vernon Kerswell: were a lot of challenges with indiegogo and um and crowdfunding but you know the indiegogo team
[3047.65] Vernon Kerswell: were fantastic and they were great support and um their team are full of hardware and people who
[3054.13] Vernon Kerswell: understand products and they're very supportive so you know there was it was a lot of pain at times
[3059.97] Vernon Kerswell: but overall it was it was fantastic and you know the fact that we were able to crowdfund that
[3064.61] Vernon Kerswell: project and crowdfund the next one is is that's really nice and um if we can do it um a new one
[3071.97] Curry: then um that'll be you know that's fantastic as well can you make sure your videos right if you can
[3077.57] Curry: if you can film it with the actual prototype yeah yeah absolutely i'll be so happy i won't have any
[3083.89] Vernon Kerswell: bad words to say then exactly so you know for the last couple months i've been actually going out
[3088.05] Vernon Kerswell: all over the world testing our new drone and capturing raw footage from our drone so um
[3095.01] Vernon Kerswell: every everything you see on the new campaign is going to be raw footage shot from our drone so
[3099.89] Vernon Kerswell: um because i you know i don't want to form the same traffic in where i'm being accused of doing
[3104.29] Vernon Kerswell: this and doing that and final product not coming out with this and i want to make sure that
[3108.45] Vernon Kerswell: everything we have on our um campaign page is exactly as we've already developed it so
[3115.33] Vernon Kerswell: everything you see on the campaign page is already completed and all already developed oh cool so it
[3121.25] Curry: sounds like if the prototype's flying already and you've got footage which obviously you can sneak
[3125.81] Curry: as a look we won't we won't call that against you so is it just a case really of getting the
[3131.09] Curry: funding together to get like mass production and and having it out there or is there still a bit
[3136.13] Vernon Kerswell: more development stuff to do so the main thing will be mass production so we'll need to manufacture
[3142.45] Vernon Kerswell: um uh like five thousand drones for well to actually get to the level where we can send it
[3148.29] Vernon Kerswell: to a factory to manufacture it and so once we can get five thousand units confirmed then we'll just
[3155.41] Vernon Kerswell: hit the green button and we'll start manufacturing and also um there's some additional things that we
[3159.81] Vernon Kerswell: want to come out with as well for our new model and that will enable us so we'll have different
[3165.25] Vernon Kerswell: levels of functionalities so there's um there's a company in boston called neurala which they
[3170.93] Vernon Kerswell: make um ai machine learning and we really want to integrate that technology into our drone as well
[3176.85] Vernon Kerswell: and to give it smart shots you know things like you know the equivalent of dji's active track
[3182.05] Vernon Kerswell: and that's something that we want to put into our new drone as well um but um to do that they need
[3187.09] Vernon Kerswell: a certain level of commitment and financially do that so if we can that'll be like a stretch goal
[3192.53] Vernon Kerswell: so once we hit our baseline funding then we'll go to the next level and see if we can um yeah make
[3198.45] Tony: this thing with more functionality can you send it to andy rc and curry kitten please yeah absolutely
[3206.05] Vernon Kerswell: i'll send you a sample so you can you can you can check it out i know i thought he's off the wish
[3211.73] Jack: he's off the christmas list that man is not your friend vernon he doesn't love you like i love robot
[3218.29] Curry: wars well if you can come up with with what you're saying you can do then you know i'm
[3228.61] Curry: happy to be converted i'm always wanting to love a product uh basically you know we all we all love
[3236.29] Curry: flying it's when they slowly let us down we get a little bit upset about it but yeah if it's all
[3243.09] Vernon Kerswell: raw footage i cannot argue with it yeah that's the main thing last month i was in kubitino at the
[3249.73] Vernon Kerswell: apple park you know the apple the big round building the apple park building we've all been there
[3255.25] Vernon Kerswell: and i took the drone there to i saw these amazing videos on um on youtube of people who documented
[3263.41] Vernon Kerswell: that um the building of that of that um building uh with the drone and i wanted to recreate that
[3269.09] Vernon Kerswell: see if i can recreate that the same footage using the microchip 4 and uh the actual world footage
[3274.77] Vernon Kerswell: you get it's amazing so there's the color's good the clarity is sharp and the footage is smooth
[3281.41] Vernon Kerswell: and that's what people want so yeah i was really pleased about how it came out sounds good welcome
[3288.13] Jack: from across the fpv by the way yep we've got a new new listener tornado god was my favorite at the
[3295.65] Jack: moment direct donation to uh to the let's throw now paypal that's more like it she's great have
[3307.25] Tony: you seen her flying lately that girl can fly man yeah some of the best out there i think i think
[3313.33] Tony: so as well i'm just i posted saying please put an hd camera on your cord please yeah has she not got
[3319.89] Tony: hd camera i think she likes flying really light drones so she just dvrs everything so i'm just
[3325.73] AndyRC: praying that she's gonna do she's so good i think she had her normal flying spot i saw a poster
[3333.73] AndyRC: video yeah they made the same they stuck signs up saying she can't fly there anymore so she's
[3338.29] AndyRC: just flying like the um tiny woot sort of things but getting amazing like results doing all mattie
[3345.01] AndyRC: stunts backwards yeah all the backwards flying that i can't do so you know sometimes i quite
[3351.49] Curry: like seeing dvr footage because it's kind of it's a bit more raw and you're seeing exactly what
[3356.61] Curry: you know guys are getting through the goggles and i kind of appreciate that yeah so do i
[3361.09] Jack: agree but right love i want to see it big topic before we end the show this is going into overtime
[3369.41] Jack: but uh tony what's this about you chopping down a tree oh god just because i live in crawley
[3376.29] Jack: wasn't me you've murdered the tree yeah i'd never do that you'll be kicked out of the vegans league
[3381.73] Jack: no he's allowed to do that isn't he the tree's all right to kill be a vegan no you know what you
[3388.13] Jack: can eat them can't you so well wipe my ass on them but that's something else depends on the tree yeah
[3394.13] Jack: oh tony cutting down a tree at the golf club so savage isn't he what about those trees that eat
[3399.97] Tony: animals stop getting crawly council bloody coming knocking at my door i'd love that
[3405.57] AndyRC: do you reckon about uh i'd love to know a vegan point of view on um hang on say that again i'd
[3414.77] AndyRC: like to know a vegan point of view on venus fly traps which are plants that eat animals
[3421.81] Jack: they're just getting their own back okay i want your opinion lord vegan well it's the plant
[3429.09] Tony: eating the uh the flies not me you're a delight in you or have you just lost loads of white
[3437.41] Jack: i don't like that i can't hear what people are saying
[3440.29] Tony: oh hang on i'll turn them back up here you go is it you're like light or you've lost loads of
[3447.09] AndyRC: weight because it's lots loads of weight because of this ballington he couldn't eat a mcm expo
[3455.89] Jack: because the lines are so long so i've just wasted away you got you need to hang on there you go
[3463.33] Jack: is that better i stand up right hello he never ends
[3469.33] Jack: jesus christ what do you want from a drone
[3475.17] Vernon Kerswell: your guest is asking something sorry fun i'm sorry change of subject i was wondering if you if you
[3482.37] Jack: if you ever done robot wars for drones me yeah why no no i haven't i think you'd enjoy that
[3491.25] Jack: yeah i would totally man i would you know yeah we could fly a spud into them and then it would
[3497.25] Tony: turn into chips i've seen in the u.s they have a game of drones yeah yeah that's it that's i've
[3502.69] Vernon Kerswell: i've been involved with that for the last three years and um we did it i make a phone and i have
[3506.85] Vernon Kerswell: a little micro drone flying around the game of drones and being smashed to pieces and just like
[3511.89] Vernon Kerswell: chunks flying everywhere and drones is going full peloton that's so much fun i think you
[3516.45] Vernon Kerswell: jack i think you'd like that you should check it out but they started in the uk
[3521.33] Vernon Kerswell: i don't know i did a i did an event um we called it battle of the drones and um we've got a bunch
[3527.09] Vernon Kerswell: of micro drones put them in a in a cage i'll send the link on the chat and so you can check it out
[3532.21] Jack: yeah um because like they started putting drones in balls then with nets hanging off them and i
[3538.13] Jack: was like cheating now you want to replace the blades you know propellers with knives
[3546.53] Curry: have like a dog poop cannon it's really hard if you're done with planes they're so hard to
[3551.81] Curry: hear each other out of the sky no it's hard to try it's really hard the trick is to not try to hit
[3558.37] Curry: each other yeah don't try and hit each other it's easy but if you've got three people trying to hit
[3562.93] Curry: each other it's just yeah never happen see one go past every so often there is but surely frank's
[3569.41] Frank: got skill in that from battle of britain and i i just set them up to blow up i didn't fly them
[3577.25] Curry: so you know and then people blew them up while they were still on the ground and things yeah
[3582.85] Jack: yeah or test if my guns work no don't do that uh yep that is boy pet gimp over there
[3592.93] Jack: he's very happy i've let him do doing a show after the show yes so i am going to be
[3600.69] Jack: on the thursday night show.com in an hour at 10 o'clock till 11 o'clock
[3608.53] Jack: playing some gay aces music oh great for my love of andy rc excellent why why has that got
[3618.37] Jack: anything to do with me because i love you oh that's nice and i was you i was inside you last
[3626.61] Jack: week that's too much information and i liked it in there i'm not sure i did
[3636.85] Jack: so as as your punishment you've got to dress up next week i don't dress up i'm always this is me
[3644.21] Tony: and it's how it's like i'm the same halloween every day where is um where where is the uh you
[3650.29] Jack: know the uh up north thing gone now jack oh yeah i mean you got any lined up serious like three
[3658.45] AndyRC: three hundred pounds please don't do that what if i move what if i move down south it makes no sense
[3665.25] Jack: i'll cross it out and put down i don't know how to spell like that
[3674.93] Vernon Kerswell: andy i've seen your channel i've liked you a lot of your modding videos if you don't want to come
[3679.17] Vernon Kerswell: and hang out at the extreme flyers lab and then come play with some new projects you're very
[3683.57] Jack: welcome oh wow i would normally say he doesn't go out but i heard he was at a um sports hall
[3690.05] AndyRC: and i've been trying to go outside jack you know off your recommendation
[3698.37] Tony: how do the lyrics go we don't need to you know these all these guys have probably uh
[3708.21] AndyRC: all these guys have probably enjoyed that as well they're down they're they're all based down south
[3712.61] Jack: so uh yes i love the way he says that uh so you are not of them where's where's the
[3722.93] Jack: thing did you post it to me it's on its way to you jack yes oh that means i haven't posted it
[3729.49] Tony: so i would have had it by now we need to underflute putting a lot of cash for that
[3737.33] Jack: he stopped he stopped donating this week you know that i don't blame him sweetie fair it's on its
[3743.09] AndyRC: way to you guys and you'll see how difficult it is to do a review no because we're going to do it
[3751.25] AndyRC: or you'll do a very good job and then vernon can send you microdrone four
[3755.49] AndyRC: instead of sending it to wayne because he might want to send it to us
[3758.93] Tony: i have to tell him now don't send it to us how much do you think a sapling would cost an
[3767.33] Jack: oak tree sapling like the one that got cut down and we're gonna go to crawl the ldo we're gonna
[3772.61] Curry: find one you never you never cut down an oak tree did you tony they're sacred i didn't we're going
[3778.85] Jack: to go to all trees so yeah the weekend we're going to go to the golf club find out whether it's true
[3786.29] Jack: or not find out what sapling it was and then try and raise some money to get us get a sapling to
[3792.93] Jack: replace the tree we're going to plant a new tree aren't we jack yes and name it andrew frank
[3801.01] Tony: it's tree of hope i have no idea what you guys are talking about someone in crawley got their
[3806.61] Tony: drone stuck in a tree and add at it with a chainsaw and cost 20 grand to make the tree down yes
[3814.85] Tony: he didn't call tony with his big pole he just went at it with a chainsaw what are they made
[3820.61] Tony: the news or something yeah it's all over the crawley news is but it was on telly bbc news
[3825.81] Tony: i think that's got good for first of no that's what we're going to investigate because it could
[3830.77] Tony: be fake news oh yeah you know you know what it's like you know drone takes down tree helicopter
[3838.37] AndyRC: plane yeah all this children i think i saw like uh someone say oh it was a drone that hit the
[3845.49] AndyRC: tail rotor if that yeah i might that was ridiculous yeah we get blamed for everything
[3855.17] Frank: cruelly full of really weird people and then on the other side of the nonsense news we've got
[3861.17] Frank: the bmfa saying that mobile phones are destroying your transmitters but well andrew slash frank was
[3869.57] Curry: telling me about this earlier about bfma blaming phones for incidents of planes and if i think
[3874.21] Curry: about it every time i've had a crash i've also had my phone with me so it might not be me that's
[3880.29] Curry: crap at flying it might just be the fact that my phone has broken my transmitter i like it as a
[3886.05] AndyRC: working period oh what about what about cocter's that rely on phones being there such as the
[3892.61] AndyRC: microdrone such as dji well there they rely on the phone being switched apparently no don't ruin it
[3899.73] Frank: against the bmfa have now ruled that you you've got to move your phone away from your transmitter
[3905.73] AndyRC: because it's that that probably means um for like for line of sight big stuff i would imagine
[3913.81] AndyRC: and it they're probably using spectrum as well which is changing their number uh name
[3921.97] Frank: uh the bfpvra are changing their name so the british fpv racing association uh is proposing
[3929.33] Frank: that they rename themselves the british drone racing association so that would be a lot better
[3933.97] Frank: on it it's easier to remember and say yes um but no the uh bmfa the british model flying association
[3943.41] Frank: of uh said that after extensive testing they have demonstrated a non-specific variable but
[3950.77] Frank: repeatable effects of having phones near uh transmitters particularly when data is enabled
[3959.65] Tony: i'm going to fly my next few videos with my phone strapped to my tx to see what happens
[3965.33] Curry: do you not think that is the best phrase in the world said again frank it makes me a little bit
[3970.45] Jack: giddy when he's in it non-specific variable but repeatable oh i got chills god it was almost as
[3979.97] Jack: good as um listening to an audio book recorded uh by our lord and master of the british empire
[3991.81] AndyRC: uh what's his name
[4001.33] Frank: yeah also it's uh sometimes repeatable
[4010.13] Jack: it's like a little little star isn't it it's not specific what is repeatable
[4015.49] Frank: come on george has her yeah so that's that's the latest kind of it's like when you buy a packet
[4023.33] Jack: it goes you know a little note caution allergy advice contain nuts i think that should come on
[4031.89] Jack: the bmfa card as well sometimes they yeah they should hand out those little cards and tin foil
[4040.21] Frank: hats but there was uh the other bit of uh warning about problems you might have flying is with the
[4048.37] Frank: the dji batteries the tb50 and the tb55 batteries smart that's only the matrices or whatever it's
[4055.73] Frank: called isn't it the matrice and the inspire apparently does it inspire one or two uh
[4061.89] Frank: inspire two i think everyone moving inspire one's all right so plus two millionaires only yeah
[4069.65] Frank: but yeah if you've got one of them you might want to not fly over things assume it's going to fall
[4075.25] Frank: out the sky until they get their firmware update out um is the official advice of dji and the caa at
[4081.41] Frank: the moment well how like how many years did that take to figure out well it i don't know it might
[4087.97] Curry: be a new thing who knows probably people with phones in their pockets causing a problem that
[4094.61] Frank: was it it was the phones on the definitely the firings interfering with the batteries that was
[4099.49] Frank: what it was yeah definitely that's the one oh they tried shaking their batteries
[4106.05] Frank: what like copy toner just like in case it gets pumped up no the lithium's at one end
[4114.85] Jack: yeah all right guys should we call it there i think it's probably wise
[4120.77] Jack: so we're starting to descend into yeah
[4123.57] Jack: don't talk about lawnmowers yeah we mean is there a is there like yeah lawnmower robot
[4131.81] Curry: is there a lawnmower yeah that's best to go around and discover your lawn and work it out aren't they
[4138.13] Vernon Kerswell: and then mow it and harvest our organs at the same time i don't think they advertise that feature
[4144.85] Jack: yeah british lawnmower museum www.lawnmowerworld.co.uk
[4153.25] Frank: is that going to be our our first uh stop on the trip it's a real thing it's a real thing
[4160.29] Frank: is that going to be our first patreon special live stream jet yeah she's southwest kitty
[4165.81] Jack: thank you oh god it's near liverpool oh that's far too far north north
[4172.13] Tony: good night would all those please do who went out there i know no way of seeing the isle of white
[4176.77] Frank: from there anyway do you want to uh call this out jack yeah no worries the thing i want to say but
[4183.97] Vernon Kerswell: you know the boston dynamics they make those robots it's far too scary that's that's really
[4190.77] Vernon Kerswell: inspiring actually and um i'd really like to make like a micro boston dynamics drone or
[4197.41] Vernon Kerswell: like some sort of walking drone which actually just walk along and intelligently navigate itself
[4202.61] Curry: that's like that'd be really cool have you seen that guy on youtube i forgot his name and there's
[4208.53] Curry: the open dog project that looks really impressive as well yeah yeah it's like a lot of work yeah
[4214.21] Frank: james broughton with x robots and their open dog yeah i'd like to make a boston dynamics micro
[4221.09] Vernon Kerswell: and then manufacture that in chen chen at like a couple hundred bucks and have a
[4224.85] Vernon Kerswell: little personal little personal robot which can follow you and you kick it over and it'll get
[4230.77] Vernon Kerswell: back up again and just and then it and then it puts a pillow over your face when you go exactly
[4236.53] Jack: yeah there's nothing like that snuffles is my slave name well you know musk thinks we should
[4245.89] Tony: be really scared of AI and it should be yeah i already am seeing in boston dynamic stuff
[4251.65] Tony: jumping flipping over doing backflips and opening doors that's enough for me
[4255.57] Jack: i was like i'm already scared of tony and that's low intelligence exactly thank you uh for tuning
[4263.41] Jack: in and listening to let's drone out you've been joined by andry slash frank goodbye andy rc good
[4269.97] Jack: evening my tin foil hat tony bonjour bernan bye bye curry kitten goodbye i've been jack thank you
[4281.33] Jack: and good night telemetry lost