=== Let's Drone Out — Episode 176 ===
Title: Episode 176 BMFA
Recorded: 2019-01-10
Hosts: Andy, Andrew "Frank" Hyams, Neil "NJ Tech" Jones, Jack "Brightontillifly" Nash, Wayne "CurryKitten" Andrews, Tony "TheTonstar1" Marchant
Guest(s): Andy Symons
Total audience: 3,024
Platforms: YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qR_NoDzYkc); SoundCloud (http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/feeds.soundcloud.com/stream/583858020-letsdroneout-episodebmfa.mp3)
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[2.64] Jack: Hello and welcome to another episode of let thrown out tonight. We are joined by
[9.2] Jack: Andrew Frank. Hello
[11.6] Jack: Not Andy RC, but Andy BMFA
[18.84] Jack: Everyone's
[20.88] Jack: Christmas calendar wishlist sexy boy and j-tech
[26.28] Jack: Good evening, everyone. Oh, I'm sure I started lactating then a little bit
[34.28] Jack: My little Tony moisto and everyone's favorite curry kitten. Hello
[42.4] Jack: And I'm bright till I fly
[45.04] Jack: tonight
[46.28] Jack: We are and oh
[48.96] Jack: Do you like get the sparklers out?
[51.8] Jack: Thank you zero FBV for donating Tony light sparkler
[58.08] Tony: It's already started
[61.12] Frank: Well, well Tony's doing that what I'll do is I will get I'm not put I'm not putting in my mouth
[69.2] Tony: There are this one's for you
[72.4] Frank: Andy let's let's kick off just with
[75.72] Frank: What what do you get to fly at the moment if anything?
[79.02] Andy Symons: I
[83.78] Andy Symons: Mean I've been flying RC since back to thousand
[88.26] Andy Symons: It's been sport fixing play sort of what you'll call the traditional club models. I joined me first club in
[96.46] Andy Symons: 2000
[98.54] Andy Symons: Got involved in the club side of things running things by mistake. I
[103.38] Andy Symons: Over the years forgot to step back when volunteers. I keep getting asked for
[108.46] Andy Symons: And so after about three months being in the club, I was the club secretary and then
[113.5] Andy Symons: You once later I was the area secretary
[116.7] Andy Symons: Currently my flying tends to be electric for me is that I can check in the back
[123.3] Andy Symons: Or if I'm having you know a day at being a fair bookman stuff
[127.42] Andy Symons: For example, I have one or two here that I can pop out another fly every now and then I
[132.66] Andy Symons: have two multi rotors and the problem I have with them at the moment is
[137.58] Andy Symons: There seems to be a button. I might transmit quite aggressively
[143.83] Andy Symons: I think that's more on my incompetence than anything else. So now both in under repair shall we say the book?
[151.59] Andy Symons: But
[153.19] Andy Symons: They're grateful. I enjoy flying anything to be honest
[157.83] Andy Symons: From you know, the beers I've loved together back
[161.47] Andy Symons: Third scale World War one models the lot and it's just a great thing to be doing isn't it?
[168.87] Andy Symons: It's switching your brain off or just concentrating on one thing and that's you know
[174.39] Andy Symons: When you're working hard and you've got half of those things on your brain, you know, just half an hour
[179.11] Andy Symons: Just thinking of the one it relaxing, right? Yeah
[184.23] Curry: And Andy, what is your current responsibility at the beer for me for the people watching not because I forgot to read the show notes
[192.27] Andy Symons: I'm the being a face club support officer
[195.91] Andy Symons: Yeah, now will we I mean you're my deepest sympathy
[200.83] Andy Symons: Cheers
[202.19] Andy Symons: It's actually endlessly entertaining. I'm gonna be honest. I consider myself quite lucky
[207.71] Andy Symons: In that it's a very enjoyable very very job
[211.35] Andy Symons: Stop it or lose Frank. All right, so falling asleep. Sorry Frank. No, no, no, I've been he might join you rather than be tortured by us
[224.91] Jack: Frank I swear to God
[227.35] Andy Symons: My primary sort of responsibility with them really is assisting clubs wherever the requiruses
[235.35] Andy Symons: From helping with planning applications dealing with noise complaints
[241.99] Andy Symons: Sadly and all too often
[245.55] Andy Symons: Helping media with disputes, you know, these things do happen, unfortunately
[250.15] Andy Symons: When you get a decent group of people around we're different opinions, you know disputes happen
[256.63] NJ: Just just quickly on that. So when you say disputes with we're not talking necessarily about between
[261.35] NJ: Members of the public and the club we're talking about internally
[264.87] NJ: I mean sometimes it's between the public and club
[269.79] Andy Symons: They tend to be noise related issues
[272.79] Andy Symons: But no within the club you do get
[275.71] Andy Symons: The odd fallout as you do
[277.71] Andy Symons: in any group, but it's not just model players. It's it's everything you know, I'm a member of a
[283.27] Andy Symons: Cycling club and the same thing happens. It's just life, isn't it?
[288.67] Andy Symons: As I say, it's endlessly
[291.27] Andy Symons: Entertaining
[292.27] Andy Symons: Yeah, so I bet so we can say we can safely say mediations a
[298.79] NJ: Substantial part of the job role and substantial is probably not the word I would use
[303.67] Andy Symons: It is part of the job role
[306.59] Andy Symons: You know, I think I'm fairly good at it because I tend to be fairly calm and
[314.07] Andy Symons: To back up a just a couple of steps just because we've got quite a few people
[318.91] Andy Symons: Who might be recent to the hobby
[322.47] Andy Symons: But I think that's a good thing
[324.47] Frank: I think that's a good thing
[326.47] Frank: I think that's a good thing
[328.47] Frank: Quite a few people who might be recent to the hobby or might be not in the UK
[336.95] Frank: BMFA generally
[338.95] Frank: What is it?
[340.47] Andy Symons: Right, the British Model Flying Association
[344.23] Andy Symons: I'm watching for map of all the pants off you know for an hour if you like if you like my normal club talk
[351.23] Andy Symons: We are
[352.47] Andy Symons: Well over a hundred years
[354.47] Andy Symons: Been going in one form or another
[356.79] Andy Symons: But it's the it's the body recognized by people like the FAI the Royal Era Club the CEA for
[365.43] Andy Symons: governing and we said the sport of recreational and sporting model aircraft flying
[373.99] Andy Symons: Aids of experience and aids of an excellent track record of safe operation by members which
[382.95] Andy Symons: Is invaluable when it comes to
[386.15] Andy Symons: Dealing with people like the CEA, you know, it's all about credibility. I suppose
[391.67] Jack: You're not lighting one for green patches are you Tony? That's Canadian Rupels. They're not worth anything
[399.75] Jack: He doesn't realize he's muted because it sounded like he was eating packets of crisps
[405.03] Tony: In fact, thank you Rob Britton as well for your contribution. That was green patches one
[410.71] Tony: Sorry to interrupt but
[412.87] Jack: Yeah, you will get you will get that handy
[415.67] Jack: So safe operation. So that's why we're getting regulated. Is it?
[419.83] Andy Symons: Um, I think the primary reason to be honest, we're getting regulated in media hysteria
[425.59] Andy Symons: Um
[426.63] Andy Symons: I think we all know that
[429.67] NJ: Definitely agree on that. Yeah
[431.67] Andy Symons: Anybody who is always going to be responsible will be responsible and will abide by whatever regulations come in
[439.51] Andy Symons: Those that are determined not
[442.15] Andy Symons: You know
[443.19] Frank: If we leave diving into that for a little bit to to let people join so we're not going over the same thing again later
[452.23] Jack: Sorry, I thought I'd just chuck it in there
[454.95] Jack: Jack's just trying to stir up trouble. Yeah, I know
[458.23] Jack: Enjoy name three things that go on lists
[462.39] Frank: Um, anyway, so moving back to the questions that are lovely patrons have sent to us
[467.83] Frank: um
[469.27] Frank: So you were talking about um clubs and mediating with clubs and all that sort of thing
[474.31] Frank: um
[475.27] Frank: Because that's your specialty
[477.43] Frank: Uh, we had a few people
[480.79] Frank: um asking
[482.87] Frank: um on one side of things, um
[487.03] Frank: How can clubs or how are sort of bmfa helping clubs integrate?
[492.15] Frank: Uh multi rotors into inter clubs in you know into their environment
[497.67] Frank: um, and
[499.19] Frank: On the other hand for people who haven't had much luck with their local clubs
[503.11] Frank: How can you start one of your own that's maybe a bit more multi rotor friendly? Right?
[507.59] Andy Symons: Well, there's two aspects of that. So we'll take the first bit first
[512.15] Andy Symons: In terms of integrating multi rotors into general pipeline. There's no difficulty at all
[518.63] Andy Symons: uh, it's very straightforward as long as you've
[521.83] Andy Symons: Got the space to do it and everybody wants to be cooperative work together
[526.87] Andy Symons: Um and where clubs
[529.03] Andy Symons: I like that it works very very well
[531.99] Andy Symons: and I
[533.51] Andy Symons: spend a lot of time actively encouraging
[537.11] Andy Symons: Embrace all aspects of what we do
[540.31] Andy Symons: um, but
[541.67] Andy Symons: Fully appreciate that at the end of the day what happens at a club and what activities take place
[547.67] Andy Symons: Has to be up to the club members
[550.63] Andy Symons: um
[551.83] Andy Symons: You know, that's the way it is. We wouldn't dream of going along to a club saying you must
[556.47] Andy Symons: Must have kept this that's not how it works and
[559.91] Andy Symons: Certainly, I would be happy doing that
[562.55] Andy Symons: so it's encouragement is
[565.83] Andy Symons: Is the way if i'm pointing out a few facts that?
[569.03] Andy Symons: All multi rotor flyers out hooligans that want to go around, you know breaking the law
[573.99] Andy Symons: It's a small minority of people in all aspects of everything
[580.39] Andy Symons: Yeah
[581.91] Andy Symons: I think the biggest problem we have now it's never been easier to show the world that you've been
[586.79] Andy Symons: silly
[588.15] Andy Symons: and and this is the problem and people
[591.67] Andy Symons: And it does lead to a negative
[594.79] Andy Symons: And so it's hard work, you know battling that because
[599.67] Andy Symons: um
[600.63] Andy Symons: Much of it's a social media problem. It's it's great social media, but it's a double-edged sword
[605.83] Andy Symons: It's great for getting information out quickly
[608.71] Andy Symons: But equally there's so much misinformation gets out there quickly. Nobody knows what you know, whether they read anything that's correct
[615.83] Frank: Yeah
[617.27] Frank: Peter marshall was uh
[619.11] Frank: He's one of our patrons specifically was asking because he's seen about that. There's the multi rotor
[625.27] Frank: Certs, um the a sets and b sets which are kind of like the bmfa
[629.99] Frank: um kind of
[632.45] Frank: Accredited competency kind of thing. Yes
[635.83] Frank: um, he's he's trying to find a club that
[640.07] Frank: Actually has the experience to be able to certify someone with the a and b's or you know, even
[646.39] Frank: Just the a set with the multi rotor and he's kind of struggling to find anyone who's got that experience
[652.63] Frank: Right. We'll find the club. Yeah
[654.63] Andy Symons: I mean, they are a fairly recent introduction now the multi rotor
[658.85] Andy Symons: Certificates the a and the bmfa basic proficient
[662.79] Andy Symons: um certificate
[664.79] Andy Symons: um any bmfa examiner whether it's fixed wing multi rotor helicopter or silent flight can actually
[672.15] Andy Symons: Take the a test. So there are thousands of examiners out there
[677.11] Andy Symons: um
[678.31] Andy Symons: when it comes to a b test
[680.39] Andy Symons: Um from a purely pragmatic approach the initial
[685.27] Andy Symons: Thing that we did was say right your helicopter examiners
[689.83] Andy Symons: Could act as the lead examiners in a traditional way
[693.59] Andy Symons: If you wanted to take a fixed wing b the lead examiner needed to be a fixed wing examiner
[699.59] Andy Symons: um until we have multi rotor examiners, which we are now starting to get
[704.95] Andy Symons: um, the sensible approach was for um,
[709.67] Andy Symons: You know your helicopter examiners to take it
[713.11] Andy Symons: yes, we're aware and that and we know that there's been criticism that the
[717.75] Andy Symons: The tests are nothing more than the helicopter test reject
[723.11] Andy Symons: And yeah, that that's a legitimate point i'm not sure it's worthy of criticism the tests do what the tests do and
[731.35] Andy Symons: I think it's important to recognize that the a and the b have always been
[736.39] Andy Symons: For the 40 years they've been been in an existence
[740.55] Andy Symons: tests of the piloting abilities
[743.27] Andy Symons: Um, and I think what's happened with the technology you've now got
[748.47] Andy Symons: um, it's not the piloting ability that's
[752.07] Andy Symons: The essential thing anymore there is there's a lot more involved
[756.15] Andy Symons: Um, which is why we brought the basic proficiency certificates in which sort of bit away with some of the requirements on the items
[763.43] Andy Symons: and
[764.55] Andy Symons: In terms of him finding somebody to do his test watch he does he drop me an email and we'll find him someone
[770.55] NJ: Yeah, I suppose. Um, one of the reasons we we have that kind of shift in um
[776.79] NJ: Um, uh when when you're talking about it, not just being about the pilot what I presume what we're talking about here is the fact that you've got
[785.19] NJ: The crafts able to self stabilize. There's no kind of there's there's more control taken away from the pilot in terms of
[792.55] NJ: Moving the gps coordinates, etc. That all things that are fairly commonplace on drones
[797.83] NJ: Um, whereas most helicopter, I know this is starting to become quite common for
[802.63] NJ: Fly barless helicopters now to have similar technologies integrated into them too
[807.19] NJ: Have the tests updated?
[809.19] NJ: For the helicopter side of where where that's now a thing
[812.55] Andy Symons: Buried a few years ago. The the issue again there was
[817.43] Andy Symons: You know, the tests were designed to be
[821.99] Andy Symons: And we were comes while of course the fly barless controller we wanted
[828.15] Andy Symons: And find a way
[831.11] Andy Symons: Without shall we say
[834.39] Andy Symons: Mean down
[837.75] Andy Symons: If that makes sense, um
[840.23] Andy Symons: so that
[842.79] Andy Symons: You know all the a and the b certificate
[848.31] Andy Symons: You know if you make a test easier which is potentially could have happened
[853.67] Andy Symons: You then devalue all the way sort of thousands of certificates that are already out there. So we were very conscious of that
[860.71] Andy Symons: uh, and and the way that worked for the helicopter test was
[865.99] Andy Symons: Yes, you could use fly barless, but it should it's got to only be set to
[871.43] Andy Symons: You know fulfill the role of that the fly bar
[874.87] Andy Symons: So if you know if it was starting to go to self leveling or anything like that, it was outside the remit of the test
[881.83] NJ: yeah, because then then I guess it's it's it's a thing where it's then more about um
[887.59] NJ: almost sort of
[889.11] NJ: Like pilots do checklist and decision making
[892.23] NJ: Skills more than it is direct contact piloting skills. Yeah
[896.39] Andy Symons: it's become for a lot of these in my view a
[900.79] Andy Symons: Package thing now
[902.55] Andy Symons: It's pilot electronics and aircraft
[905.99] Andy Symons: Whereas for years and years it's been pilot and aircraft
[909.67] Andy Symons: Um, I mean there's always been and you're always going to have slightly gray areas
[913.91] Andy Symons: I mean you could go back 10 15 years and start talking about exponential and things like that
[920.23] Andy Symons: Making it easier
[921.67] Andy Symons: You could argue for example for fixed wing an aircraft with a lot more dihedral is a lot
[927.51] Andy Symons: more stable than one without
[930.23] Andy Symons: Um, and it's a matter of finding sort of a happy balance
[935.03] Andy Symons: Where you you've got enough
[937.91] Andy Symons: Achievement that I mean at the end of the day, it's an achievement scheme. Well, I mean to reference the
[942.93] NJ: exponential
[944.07] NJ: Quote there. I think the biggest problem we have or the challenge we face is that we're on an exponential curve from a technology stance
[952.31] NJ: In terms of the autonomy in terms of you know more
[956.55] NJ: Uh things being easier and easier for the you know, let's say pilot
[961.19] NJ: I mean the fact of the matter is we can you can get people with with nearly no experience able to
[967.75] NJ: Get something to fly
[970.23] NJ: And it will hold its position and it will keep itself level to the point where you you're just pushing buttons on a smartphone even
[976.87] NJ: Absolutely. So that that is a real challenge moving forward and I guess catch up on that has has got to be uh
[983.11] NJ: Got to be fairly
[984.63] NJ: Fairly high on the agenda
[987.11] Andy Symons: No, i'm so i'm so I think keeping up with technology you've
[991.35] Andy Symons: Almost always on a losing game on that all you can do is try to keep up
[995.83] Andy Symons: But uh, you don't know what the next technological advancement is until it happens
[1000.95] Andy Symons: And then you've got to go through a process of evaluating how you build that into things like achievement scheme testing
[1007.75] Jack: Wait, you're in this king
[1009.91] Andy Symons: I think um
[1011.59] Andy Symons: it's clear that
[1014.31] Andy Symons: Certainly for the a and b certificates, um, it is about pilot achievement. It always has been I can't see things
[1021.35] Andy Symons: Away from that
[1023.03] Andy Symons: But we have recognized I think the extra technology is by introducing the basic proficiency
[1030.79] Andy Symons: Which allow people to come along
[1033.43] Andy Symons: Take a test if they want. I mean they're all from our point of view always voluntary always will be there's no effect on insurance
[1039.75] Andy Symons: at all on these
[1041.43] Andy Symons: Uh, you're insured whether you've got them or not from that point of view
[1045.43] Andy Symons: um
[1046.95] Andy Symons: So but one thing I think what the achievement scheme has done over the years
[1052.39] Andy Symons: Uh has improved safety standards
[1055.75] Andy Symons: You know in my view and i've seen it many many times
[1058.95] Andy Symons: Uh people are in for the certificates in general not always because there's always exceptions tend to be
[1066.07] Andy Symons: uh
[1067.19] Andy Symons: fair for flying
[1068.95] NJ: Yeah
[1070.15] NJ: I think it honestly, I think it's it's no bad thing because I mean for me i've been
[1075.99] NJ: flying model stuff and uh, probably I think it was around 1989 I started flying uh fixed wing and then
[1082.71] NJ: you know the five years later I started going on to
[1085.59] NJ: to flying helicopters and helicopters is my main background and and they're one of those things where you've
[1091.03] NJ: You know, you you have to build them yourselves
[1093.35] NJ: They're incredibly expensive to crash because back then there weren't simulators or anything to help you out
[1098.15] NJ: Everything was mechanical mechanical fly bars
[1100.63] NJ: And you had to know that thing inside out and and checklists were a big big big part of of uh,
[1106.31] NJ: You know before you even fly the thing you had to check everything
[1109.51] NJ: Because there's so many single points of failure on a helicopter and it's something that's instilled in me
[1115.27] NJ: When I build a multirotor I fly multirotor
[1118.87] NJ: I always go through checking prop directions make sure everything is mechanically sound no dry solder joints
[1124.31] NJ: I'll always go through a mental checklist in my head in my head
[1127.51] NJ: And I think encouraging people towards that kind of thing is is never a bad thing anyway
[1132.15] NJ: so it doesn't surprise me at all that you've got statistics to back that up and
[1136.39] Andy Symons: It of course carries weight with the caa. I mean the very fact that we'll accept
[1141.65] Andy Symons: Achievement scheme certificates people going for the pfc or
[1145.99] Andy Symons: um, you know
[1148.07] Andy Symons: Shows that they hold it in some standing. Um, and
[1152.31] Andy Symons: You know, we'll probably be talking about regulation later. So
[1155.03] Andy Symons: Well, and we you know the registration side of things
[1160.95] Frank: Sure, maybe carry i'm sorry. I'm sure we jump into that. Um, yeah, um, because yeah clive fpv
[1167.91] Frank: Asked, uh, how how do you go about starting a club? Um, so
[1173.91] Andy Symons: With the bmfa right? Okay. Well with the bmfa it is very straightforward
[1178.31] Andy Symons: Would you tell us you want to be a club? Uh, we'll send you some two paper two forms to fill in
[1182.87] Andy Symons: You tell them then you send them back. You're a club from that point of view
[1187.03] Frank: And for anyone else who hasn't got a club near them
[1189.99] Frank: Um, what what's the benefit of of starting a club with the bmfa rather than just forming a facebook group or having a casual meetup?
[1197.35] Andy Symons: Yes for an affiliated club. There are quite a lot of extra
[1201.97] Andy Symons: Benefits that people tend not to think about first of all that there's decades of experience and vice and bills
[1209.27] Andy Symons: um, but the big thing I think
[1212.31] Andy Symons: Would membership of any association especially what we do the primary thing people join is insurance?
[1219.27] Andy Symons: Um, you know so as an affiliated club, there are a lot of extra insurances. They're fairly essential for clubs
[1226.71] Andy Symons: Um that they tend not you tend not to think about
[1229.99] Andy Symons: things like cover for your landowner, for example
[1233.43] Andy Symons: um
[1234.31] Andy Symons: It's we are you know, thankfully not as litigious as they are in the status, but we're getting you know heading that way
[1241.11] Andy Symons: And what we've found
[1243.35] Andy Symons: And more and more is that people will now make claims against as many people as possible
[1249.19] Andy Symons: um
[1250.15] Andy Symons: And so they may make a claim against a landowner for example
[1253.83] Andy Symons: Or they they could make a claim against the whoever the organizers are
[1258.95] Andy Symons: I know I know
[1260.31] Andy Symons: Quite often it's a dirty word is committed. Um, but if you're if you're on a committee of a club or you're one of the chief
[1266.21] Andy Symons: organizers
[1267.67] Andy Symons: It is possible somebody could take make a claim against you for the actions of another member of the club
[1274.47] Andy Symons: Uh on the basis that you've perhaps enabled their and their actions
[1278.87] Andy Symons: Yeah
[1280.15] Andy Symons: So this is where the extra insurance is coming
[1283.91] Andy Symons: Yeah, so the landowners are covered. Uh, you know if you fly if it's an affiliated club land owners are covered whether that's mo being counseled
[1293.11] Andy Symons: Um, you've then got what it's uh directors and officers cover
[1297.67] Andy Symons: Which in effect covers all the members of the committee
[1301.51] Andy Symons: Uh, so if somebody does make a claim against you, um, you know, the insurance is there and you're covered
[1306.79] Andy Symons: And there's other you know, we have a club equipment, uh insurance and that's all part of of the benefits and affiliation
[1314.39] Andy Symons: So you've got up to 10 000 pounds worth of equipment covered. So if you've
[1318.87] Andy Symons: If you ride on lawnmower gets stolen, uh, that's all covered
[1322.95] Frank: And then the other thing with with forming a new uh club, um that a lot of people have been asking about
[1329.03] Frank: because this also relates to
[1331.43] Frank: uh a miss
[1333.11] Frank: Misunderstanding I had of how clubs work through the bmfa. Um, uh, that's been long standing in my head was um
[1340.79] Frank: About having a a site because uh, it's sort of been passed down to me
[1345.91] Frank: Sort of word of mouth that it it was necessary to have a permanent site to become a bmfa club
[1351.67] Andy Symons: But by the sounds of it, that's not the case. That's not the case at all. No, you can have uh, we've got
[1358.31] Andy Symons: many clubs actually that
[1361.03] Andy Symons: Um have multiple sites or or they don't have their own fixed sites
[1365.91] Andy Symons: Pass it being uh slopes or in clubs
[1368.63] Andy Symons: Um, but we have more and more, uh multi-roaded drone racing clubs that have come on over the past couple of years
[1375.51] Andy Symons: You know the defined site, you know for the event do it that way
[1379.91] Andy Symons: Which is another thing I forgot to mention of course is the event insurance
[1384.31] Andy Symons: Uh, you know if you're an affiliated club when you're running an event the insurance is in place by you know, so
[1390.87] Andy Symons: they're they're very um
[1393.19] Andy Symons: You know benefits that are worthwhile
[1395.59] Frank: and what about
[1397.03] Frank: Groups of people that are looking for a a permanent site. Can you because you were talking earlier about uh, helping with mediation
[1404.95] Frank: Can you help like?
[1407.67] Frank: People going up to the local council and saying can we have a
[1411.59] Andy Symons: You know, we can
[1413.19] Andy Symons: Contact councils, you know on on behalf of people looking for sites. We do that quite regularly we work
[1420.87] Andy Symons: You know and we liaise quite often with councils
[1424.31] Andy Symons: One of the things that we do do whenever a council decides they want to introduce new bylaws
[1430.15] Andy Symons: Uh, they have to run it by us
[1432.47] Andy Symons: Uh, which is helpful. I mean we we can't always prevent
[1436.55] Andy Symons: You know councils introducing them
[1439.51] Andy Symons: Question then covered. Yes. Yes. Well, we we are
[1444.47] Andy Symons: Well, they've had a meeting today, haven't they we have been in correspondence with them
[1449.43] Andy Symons: First of things that came out last week
[1452.07] Andy Symons: And how it will end up is too soon to say
[1455.99] Andy Symons: But a similar thing happened probably two years ago in bristol
[1459.83] Andy Symons: You may recall when they decided they were going to restrict all our sea flying to one site in bristol and growth
[1468.21] Andy Symons: um, they ran this by us and while we couldn't get them to
[1473.01] Andy Symons: Accept our sea flying of all phones which includes drones
[1477.89] Andy Symons: Um at all open spaces in bristol. We did manage to get persuaded them into having two further areas
[1484.45] Andy Symons: Um, and that was you know, well
[1486.85] Andy Symons: It was I went down and met a few people from the council. We looked around the site
[1492.05] Andy Symons: and then generally
[1494.77] Andy Symons: Uh, they'll be they'll be cooperative, you know
[1497.01] Andy Symons: And he did say that if we became aware of further sites in the future that were suitable
[1503.09] Andy Symons: Uh, they would consider adding them to the list of allowable places
[1507.81] Andy Symons: And I think it's uh, one of the things that we all need to do is accept that some places we just shouldn't be fighting
[1514.77] Curry: Uh, some places aren't suitable yet others are
[1518.13] Curry: So andy in terms of the membership
[1521.41] Curry: Is it is it still steadily growing because what you mentioned social media early earlier and one of the things I guess that
[1527.81] Curry: Was traditional is that if you want to get into flying you might go to a model shop
[1531.89] Curry: And you might then go to a club site and join a club and learn to fly that way
[1536.53] Curry: And nowadays it seems like people will see a video on youtube and they say oh
[1540.13] Curry: I like the idea of that and i'll find a website and they'll buy it and i'll go out somewhere and they'll
[1545.17] Curry: Start flying they might hook up with facebook
[1547.49] Curry: Things and it kind of seems like in some way that there's sort of the club experience is sort of missing there
[1552.77] Curry: How are you getting those those new flyers into the clubs as well? Yeah, well, I tell where I am
[1559.65] Andy Symons: Finding clubs are finding people. This is through accepting drone races, to be honest. I think especially the younger end
[1566.05] Andy Symons: um
[1566.93] Andy Symons: Those clubs that have embraced that are and really noticing
[1571.01] Andy Symons: An increase in members and a lot will move over to uh, chelsea the more traditional
[1576.77] Andy Symons: Uh, you know activities that takes place
[1580.13] Jack: What do you mean like wearing socks with sandals?
[1582.21] Andy Symons: Absolutely. Yeah and shorts and you know drinking tea not flying and talking a lot. Yeah
[1587.33] Jack: I mean tony joe joined because at the age of uh 370 ad uh, they considered him to be young as well. So
[1596.61] Jack: We were all young
[1599.57] Frank: Yeah, uh curry's question actually leads quite nicely into a question from rich of warrick, um
[1606.53] Frank: so kind of for four people who are
[1609.17] Frank: You know not near a club or just you know fancy going around flying in you know, sort of uh,
[1614.77] Frank: The remote spaces and and sort of they're just country members. Um
[1620.21] Frank: What's kind of what's the big incentive there for?
[1623.97] Frank: um
[1624.85] Andy Symons: To be a bmfa member, uh, the biggest incentive I suppose is the best insurance package available
[1630.53] Andy Symons: Uh for anybody flying RC and all it's fucked
[1633.73] Andy Symons: Uh, it's proven its bespoke package. Uh, the levels of cover are better that you know, then you can get elsewhere
[1640.93] Andy Symons: Not the cheapest but you know the best very rarely is
[1644.77] Frank: and then and then following off of that there was quite a few people were picking up on after the uh,
[1650.61] Frank: you know the gatwick events and and the
[1653.89] Frank: How you know a a certain couple were treated after that. Um, what is there any uh any
[1661.09] Frank: coverage in terms of legal representation or any help that way
[1665.17] Andy Symons: Well, the the big problem we have
[1670.85] Andy Symons: None of us have actually got much information to go on do we um,
[1675.73] Andy Symons: um, you know, we don't know
[1678.53] Andy Symons: What the police came up with and this is this is the biggest problem about the whole incident, but all we can
[1684.93] Andy Symons: talk about is
[1686.29] Andy Symons: Basically what we see through the media, which as we know isn't always particularly um
[1692.37] NJ: So the bmfa haven't been at all consulted or spoken to about this incident
[1700.05] Andy Symons: We've been in touch with the it's the sorry police down there, isn't it?
[1704.21] Andy Symons: We've been talking to them who've actually contacted a lot of the clubs in the area
[1708.13] Andy Symons: um
[1709.17] Andy Symons: you know the
[1711.73] Andy Symons: The difficulty is nobody knows what's happened there. It's into me reading all the uh
[1719.49] Andy Symons: Um conspiracy theories out there
[1723.57] NJ: Yeah, I mean we've we've we've covered the topic here several times over several shows and yeah, I guess our
[1729.89] NJ: our consensus, yes, thank you tony our biggest consensus is is really the fact that you know
[1735.49] NJ: 300 odd press down there stalking gatwick for for three days straight with their massive
[1740.37] NJ: Lenses and god knows what else not a single picture. It's just all a bit
[1743.89] NJ: It's all a little strange, but as you say media hysteria is probably the best summary for now
[1749.41] Andy Symons: Yeah, I think I think it is. I think you've also got to be somewhat realistic as well
[1754.45] Andy Symons: And the gap is a huge area
[1757.25] Andy Symons: Um, you know a multi-rotor can be quite small
[1760.77] Andy Symons: Um, unless you happen to be looking at it, you know, if it's a mile and a half away
[1764.69] Andy Symons: You're not going to see it no matter what lens you've got on
[1767.81] Andy Symons: Um, you know and you know all the people in the airport weren't in a position where they would be at sea any any way
[1774.85] Curry: Sure, but I think we had what that was described as 93 credible sightings
[1780.93] Curry: which
[1782.13] Curry: You think one of those would have said blooming a car must I must get a
[1785.65] Curry: photo of that to show to people
[1787.65] Andy Symons: Yeah, well, yeah, absolutely. You know how much you know depends what you call the credible sighting
[1794.13] Curry: Well, this this is this is what the police turned out so it could be anything. Well, yeah, I mean
[1800.13] Andy Symons: This is my own personal feeling so don't say this is in any way official. I suspect initially was some
[1808.45] Andy Symons: And then of course once that gets reported
[1811.49] Andy Symons: um, you know
[1813.49] Andy Symons: Your next door neighbor's dog walking past with a flashing collar becomes a drone and you know
[1819.09] Andy Symons: How these things go?
[1821.01] Andy Symons: um, you know to the point and we even had it where it looks like the police drones have been reported as
[1826.37] Andy Symons: Yeah an authorized drone that
[1829.17] Andy Symons: um, so this is
[1832.77] AndyRC: That's what happened, isn't it the the police were flying drones around then everyone starts reporting
[1839.01] AndyRC: Drones and then I guess there's a communication issue. What I found interesting about the whole thing is that
[1846.13] AndyRC: um
[1847.09] AndyRC: With Heathrow, they actually had uh
[1851.73] AndyRC: Video of it yet. They only closed Heathrow for an hour
[1855.81] AndyRC: But they closed Gatwick for what what was it two days? It was 36 hours or something, wasn't it?
[1861.25] AndyRC: Yeah, it see it seems a bit sus and then
[1864.77] AndyRC: I'm I'm not like into conspiracy theories myself at all. But Gatwick changed hands like a day later, didn't it?
[1872.93] AndyRC: Yeah
[1874.05] Jack: And they were supposed to have a strike as well. Yeah, they were gonna have a strike on the 21st
[1878.69] Tony: It was it was in the news on the in november and they were hacked
[1884.45] Andy Symons: Anyway, that's not that no, I mean primarily I was amazed with enough tin foil left to do our turkeys at christmas
[1891.57] Frank: Yeah
[1893.57] Frank: But yeah, um wins I think wins question
[1896.61] Frank: Uh, it was was more on the long lines of because we've got the the registration coming in october november. Um
[1903.89] Frank: and
[1905.41] Frank: and then
[1906.77] Frank: We're kind of a bit worried that you know next time there's a Gatwick or Heathrow event
[1911.65] Frank: They're just going to look down the list and go
[1914.53] Frank: Let's let's have a go at these people. Um
[1918.13] AndyRC: Or let's speed up the process because I mean it's not meant to be happening until
[1923.07] AndyRC: november
[1924.45] AndyRC: next june and like all i'm seeing in the news is
[1929.33] AndyRC: Drone regulations need to it needs to be sped up. It needs to be sorted now sort of thing
[1934.93] AndyRC: so so uh
[1936.29] AndyRC: Has the bit as the bmfa had any imp light sort of?
[1940.77] Andy Symons: input into that into the the drone bill which um
[1945.33] Andy Symons: I think has had its first reading. Um, yes, we're actually very fortunate that our
[1953.81] Andy Symons: Executive who was hoping to be with us
[1957.41] Andy Symons: We can organize another session
[1960.45] Andy Symons: It's very well respected where it matters. Um, and there is an old party parliamentary group for
[1967.25] Andy Symons: um
[1968.21] Andy Symons: General aviation which has a subcommittee for the online aircraft
[1973.09] Andy Symons: Um, and dave has been invited to sit on that subcommittee
[1978.29] Andy Symons: And these are the people that are going to be dealing with the drone bill
[1982.93] Andy Symons: You know, we're right in the heart of it
[1984.93] Andy Symons: Um, you know with dave we're very far. I know he's me baltz and i'm gonna you know, he's probably not listening because he's got a family
[1993.01] Andy Symons: But he's he's very uh, he's very modest, uh, but I think we're very fortunate
[1997.89] Andy Symons: And
[1999.89] AndyRC: What um, what I thought was interesting is um, the I don't know if you saw it was the the caa talk
[2008.77] AndyRC: at the nec drone show
[2012.05] Andy Symons: Yes, that's what yeah
[2014.45] AndyRC: What it went on for like half an hour and it's I think I talked about it
[2019.89] AndyRC: Last week or the week before it you can go and watch it
[2023.33] AndyRC: and um
[2024.77] AndyRC: it
[2025.65] AndyRC: You know because people went when people hear our registration and and
[2030.45] AndyRC: You know tests and things like that sounds very scary
[2034.93] AndyRC: um, what what what they were actually saying is we want to make it as easy as possible and it's
[2041.23] AndyRC: Literally, literally just go probably well the thing the thing is though
[2046.13] AndyRC: This was this was like a week before the gatwick incident. Yeah, I don't know if it's gonna have changed
[2053.65] AndyRC: But what they were saying basically is that they're they're not really uh
[2059.41] AndyRC: They're not targeting hobbyists
[2062.13] AndyRC: What they what they want to do is have this this online
[2066.61] AndyRC: test
[2067.49] AndyRC: but they they want it to be a bit like the
[2070.61] AndyRC: the test that dji gives you on your phone before it'll let you fly a dji model because
[2077.25] AndyRC: You know, they want they want like people young people who are like 16
[2083.01] AndyRC: That will actually do the test because you know if you're a young younger person
[2089.33] AndyRC: uh
[2090.29] AndyRC: you know
[2091.49] AndyRC: then
[2092.69] AndyRC: And you see like you've got to answer 500 questions
[2097.01] AndyRC: They're just just not gonna gonna do it
[2099.57] Andy Symons: No, so I think I was on I went to the question and answer session that the drone show that they did on the sunday
[2105.97] Andy Symons: I think it upset him to take a time
[2108.53] Andy Symons: To the kind of what regulations the
[2111.89] Andy Symons: You know determine not to follow them i'm not going to follow them and the incidents we've had so far for example at gatwick
[2119.33] Andy Symons: Uh, they're already unlawful
[2121.57] Andy Symons: And with the current regulation, so it's not regulation. That's the problem. This has been the bmf8 position all along
[2128.45] Andy Symons: It's the enforcement. That's the problem
[2130.93] Jack: Thank you art partner. Thank you clive fpv
[2134.13] Jack: Tony's
[2135.33] Jack: Liking too up for you guys. Yes guys
[2138.85] Andy Symons: Sorry, Andy. That's all right. Okay
[2141.49] Andy Symons: Um, so so that's that that's a problem that we've got
[2144.93] Andy Symons: um
[2145.89] Andy Symons: We know what politicians are like. They like to be seen to be doing something even if you aren't doing anything
[2151.17] Andy Symons: Um, and this is the response
[2153.73] Andy Symons: That they're coming up with
[2155.33] Andy Symons: uh, the efforts of of the bmf8 and any of the
[2160.61] Andy Symons: I think we just answered that one. That's popped up on my screen
[2163.57] Andy Symons: Um has to be
[2165.63] Andy Symons: Minimizing impact on as many people as possible
[2168.93] Andy Symons: Um, and that's where the efforts have to to be aimed
[2172.29] Andy Symons: um
[2173.33] Andy Symons: because
[2174.69] Andy Symons: Whether we like it or not these changes are coming in
[2178.13] Andy Symons: um, and
[2179.41] Andy Symons: You know, we're going to be working very hard to to minimize the the effect
[2184.37] Andy Symons: Um because at the end of the day criminals are going to take part in criminal activity not bothered about the fact
[2189.49] Andy Symons: Already unlawful. Otherwise, they wouldn't be doing the stuff
[2195.17] Frank: We were kind of
[2196.77] AndyRC: that's kind of that's kind of interesting that the
[2200.21] AndyRC: you take that point of view it has been the bmfa because
[2203.89] AndyRC: You know people have that I think I think maybe the issue is that you don't
[2208.85] AndyRC: Have the the online presence to get that message out there
[2212.61] AndyRC: Because a lot a lot of people's opinion from what i've heard is that all the bmfa don't care about any of this
[2218.93] AndyRC: And clearly you do absolutely. Yeah
[2222.13] Andy Symons: Um, I think I think one of the issues we've had for for quite a while
[2227.01] Andy Symons: um
[2227.97] Andy Symons: Is that we're too busy getting on with it?
[2231.01] Andy Symons: Um, if you pardon the phrase to blow our own trumpet and perhaps we need to
[2235.73] Andy Symons: uh, and and certainly using the sort of social media and the
[2240.77] Andy Symons: More important methods of communication is something we we have been working on and we're making strides with
[2247.25] Andy Symons: I'm here tonight
[2249.25] Andy Symons: Despite I kept the fact that can't get me the camera working. Apologies. Everybody
[2254.05] Andy Symons: You know is is testament to that
[2256.53] Andy Symons: Um, but yeah, I do think we do need to shout a bit more about the active, you know, the sort of achievements and
[2263.23] Andy Symons: Activities that we get up to. Uh, so we are working on it
[2267.01] AndyRC: Yeah, and so what what about um, has there been any backlash from
[2273.15] AndyRC: members who for for years and years
[2276.53] AndyRC: have
[2277.97] AndyRC: Taken the the a the b test for for whichever
[2282.93] AndyRC: Rc model that they've got
[2285.81] AndyRC: um, and now
[2287.65] AndyRC: These regulations are coming in and it's like no the bmfa already have a system in place for
[2294.61] AndyRC: Um, you know proficiency in flying
[2299.09] AndyRC: Why should I be made to take another test? Have you had a lot of?
[2303.57] AndyRC: uh, like, you know legacy members because I know the bmfa has been around a long i've been a member a long time, um
[2311.97] AndyRC: you know
[2313.97] AndyRC: Does does the bmfa?
[2316.05] AndyRC: plan to uh
[2318.61] AndyRC: sort of have a
[2320.61] AndyRC: System where it's sort of we can bypass this whole
[2324.85] AndyRC: uh
[2326.05] AndyRC: you know registration system and
[2329.09] AndyRC: Really their target is people that are just walking into
[2333.49] AndyRC: Curries or dixons buying a phantom four and then flying it at gatwick. I think is that that's the problem, isn't it?
[2340.37] AndyRC: It's not it's not people
[2343.33] AndyRC: You know tuning into this who are hobbyists who look out for each other who are you know
[2349.41] AndyRC: That they do this as safe as possible
[2352.77] AndyRC: um, you know
[2354.93] AndyRC: So is there anything happening there or is there nothing that you can do?
[2359.17] Andy Symons: There are a lot of efforts on that one of the things going forward that we're looking at
[2364.93] Andy Symons: um
[2365.97] Andy Symons: Is and then this isn't just the bmfa, you know, that is lma fbv uks
[2371.97] Andy Symons: One of the things
[2373.41] Andy Symons: We are working going forward is having the fact that you are a member of the recognized associations counter it
[2380.93] Andy Symons: Um, you know and also, you know, if if people have got nobody prove the competency
[2387.65] Andy Symons: uh, and to be fair anybody who's passed an achievement a level of competence
[2392.45] Andy Symons: Prove is we're beyond anything they're going to ask an online multiple choice question
[2397.49] Jack: Um, you don't even know at least at least with your competency test
[2401.33] Jack: You know that you've got the correct persons stood in front of you like
[2406.45] Jack: It's online test unless they're going to do it like how you do your
[2411.33] Jack: um
[2412.53] Jack: The theory test for your driving where you prove that you are who you say you are anyone could fill that in for you
[2420.21] Andy Symons: Absolutely. I mean how they're how they're actually going to implement all this is uh, if you found the point still very much up there, isn't it?
[2426.93] Jack: Yeah, you know like I could
[2429.49] Jack: You know essentially, you know, I could I could get a monkey to do tony's test
[2434.93] Jack: And they would know
[2437.09] Andy Symons: No, I mean this is it how they're gonna do all this. I have no idea. I don't know yet
[2442.61] NJ: Yeah, all of a sudden
[2444.13] NJ: November seems uh, like it actually might be too close. Um, just a quick question while we've um, uh have a
[2450.61] NJ: quick chance and
[2452.13] NJ: Andrea hack who asked the question
[2453.65] NJ: What will happen to bmfa clubs that will now be within the range of five miles from an airport?
[2459.57] Andy Symons: Um, it's highly likely that they will carry on as they always have done
[2464.69] Andy Symons: um, there are already clubs operating within one kilometre
[2470.21] Andy Symons: And if operated mission of air traffic control years and years and years
[2476.61] Andy Symons: um
[2477.41] Andy Symons: We envisage that those clubs and
[2481.95] Andy Symons: Operating within the five kilometers now
[2484.69] Andy Symons: Well, they've got the proven track record of not being a problem
[2489.09] Andy Symons: And you know, it's almost certain that exemptions will be issued for them
[2493.73] AndyRC: Yeah, it's like pop poppins on the same site, isn't it? You know, yeah, absolutely. Yeah
[2500.05] AndyRC: And and there's no problems there. So yeah
[2503.49] Andy Symons: It's it's open to two or three clubs
[2506.85] Andy Symons: Close to you know within five kilometers
[2509.41] Andy Symons: We got wait just this past day or so. I mean obviously people are concerned about this
[2513.33] Andy Symons: Um, we don't believe it will prove an issue for established clubs
[2518.45] Andy Symons: Um, which of course armed the targets of the regulation and I think
[2523.73] Andy Symons: You know those producing the regulation are aware of that as well
[2528.53] AndyRC: Yeah, they're not the targets sadly there. They are
[2532.93] AndyRC: The the people who sort of the general public turn to and say you are the problem because I mean for me
[2540.21] AndyRC: It's it's it's the way that the media
[2542.83] AndyRC: handles all of this it's and it's it's like sells
[2547.25] AndyRC: um
[2548.13] AndyRC: Newspapers for them, doesn't it when all the restaurants it's it's very much
[2553.73] Andy Symons: Um how they operate the media and it's not just a media
[2558.13] Andy Symons: You know, it's a very radio and everything, isn't it?
[2561.97] Andy Symons: Send everybody wants to send such noise. I mean
[2566.69] NJ: The point is I think the problem is right now our first point of contact or the first point of contact to these incidents is
[2574.05] NJ: Is the police so
[2575.97] NJ: I mean it's it's very clear to a lot of us that the police are you know
[2580.85] NJ: There's a lot of a case of just not being educated or
[2584.35] NJ: Misinformed and there's a lot of information missing and you know the police by their own right
[2589.15] NJ: Individual interviews police have said we we don't have really have a clue about what we're dealing with here and it's becoming a thing very fast
[2595.57] NJ: What are there any steps that the bmfa are taking in terms of educating the police or are they accepting to you working with them on this?
[2602.69] Andy Symons: We're we're regularly in touch in touch with various police forces
[2606.69] Andy Symons: You know, they will either contact us for advice, you know
[2609.33] Andy Symons: We contact them when we realize you know to say we've been
[2612.93] Andy Symons: Anything to sorry police quite a lot as you can imagine this past few weeks
[2617.01] Andy Symons: Um, and it's an ongoing thing
[2619.57] Andy Symons: I think at the moment the difficulty is it's difficult to educate
[2624.45] Andy Symons: um
[2625.33] Andy Symons: Shall we say the enforcers or the police?
[2628.13] Andy Symons: Or on how this is all going to be affected because we don't know how it's all going to fall into place here
[2633.09] Andy Symons: It's so gray right now, isn't it? It is
[2635.25] Andy Symons: It's um, you know all quite nebulous at the moment. Yeah, andrew. Sorry
[2641.01] Frank: Yeah, i'm just gonna do a brief recap of my understanding of all the press releases and everything that's been going out over the past week or
[2648.69] Frank: So about the regulation and basically as far as I can see
[2654.29] Frank: Nothing has changed since the ano amendment last
[2658.85] Frank: july
[2660.21] Frank: Which is saying that registration is coming in in november that it's going to be
[2664.69] Frank: Released like the system is going to be up and running by october
[2669.01] Frank: Um, uh, but it's going to be required from november for any model over 250 grams
[2675.17] Frank: Um, all rules apply to even under 250 grams that applies for everything
[2681.01] Frank: Um, which is the usual kind of keep away from people don't fly over towns that kind of thing
[2687.17] Frank: um, the the the
[2690.27] Frank: suggestion from the
[2693.41] Frank: Caa's
[2694.61] Frank: Uh, so this is the response to the consultation that so everyone responded to the consultation
[2700.21] Frank: Those are kind of condensed down into some recommendations for the government to consider when they're writing the drone bill later on this year
[2706.21] Frank: And that's basically there's not enough time to to deal with fins at the moment forget about that for the moment. So that's the flight
[2713.87] Frank: notification system
[2715.65] Frank: Whatever it's called. Um
[2717.81] Frank: So we're not going to have to do that
[2720.13] Frank: Registration has already been written in so that's happening
[2724.77] Frank: and then the only other thing was the so there's the recommendation to change the
[2731.09] Frank: uh distances from the airports
[2733.25] Frank: As far as I can tell that's still not written in anywhere. That's just still a recommendation
[2737.49] Frank: I think that's a proposal. Yeah. Yeah, and then as same with the fixed penalty notices, so this would be
[2744.05] Frank: police powers to be able to
[2746.45] Frank: Um find people on the spot a certain amount of money for for doing something wrong. Um, and that is still
[2753.89] Frank: It's still a proposal. It's not detailed. It's not confirmed or anything. It's still a proposal
[2759.73] Frank: um, and there was one other thing I thought of
[2763.41] Frank: which was uh
[2767.01] Frank: Oh the the search and seize and all that kind of police powers which basically exist anyway and exactly
[2775.17] Frank: It's already happened. It's been used people who
[2777.97] Frank: Were chasing or flying a phantom near a police helicopter
[2782.45] Frank: Sometime last year. I think it was they've already been you know
[2785.81] Frank: They've had their house searched and the drone seized and the footage to prove that they were doing it
[2791.25] Frank: And so they've been prosecuted and prosecuted to the ground some of 200 pounds
[2796.13] Frank: ridiculous
[2798.53] NJ: Um, but yeah, it's not even the cost of the aviation fuel for more than 10 minutes. Yeah, exactly
[2805.25] Andy Symons: uh, I think um
[2807.25] Andy Symons: You know
[2808.13] Andy Symons: Sensible enforcement of the current regulations that have worked for years and years and years would be all of the quiet
[2814.93] Andy Symons: Yeah, but unfortunately, uh, you know with all the hysteria that's
[2820.77] Andy Symons: You know, we'll be on that now
[2822.45] Frank: Um, but yeah on the subject of the hysteria Fraser Steen
[2826.37] Frank: I think this is the last question that i've got from the patrons. So we're doing pretty well. Okay
[2831.57] Frank: Um, he was saying with all the media hysteria
[2835.33] Frank: Um that's been going all the anti-drone
[2838.29] Frank: um, have the bmfa got any plans to
[2841.89] Frank: Sort of counteract that in the media. So you we were saying, you know
[2845.97] Frank: That uh, you're working a lot with the legislation, um and those sorts of that sort of side of things
[2851.49] Frank: Um, and you've said that you'd need to improve on communication with the community to show that you're doing that
[2856.61] Frank: But then what about this other whole realm of communication with the general public and kind of saying?
[2862.37] Andy Symons: Well this communication I suppose through the media is probably the most challenging aspect
[2867.97] Andy Symons: um, they are
[2870.45] Andy Symons: Primarily spend the time trying to catch people out
[2873.73] Andy Symons: um an example of that was
[2876.93] Andy Symons: You probably recall it probably a couple years ago now
[2880.37] Andy Symons: allegedly a
[2882.37] Andy Symons: A drone strike on a 747 coming into Heathrow
[2886.21] Andy Symons: Um, you probably all remember it and the who are at the time
[2889.65] Andy Symons: Uh, I think uh between as myself dave and manny probably did half a dozen radio interviews that week
[2897.41] Andy Symons: Um, I did one on one particular national radio station
[2901.81] Andy Symons: Uh, which I must have it wasn't my favorite experience
[2904.77] Andy Symons: Um, but generally you get you get sort of a 10-minute chat with the researcher beforehand who
[2909.97] Andy Symons: Was going through questions, not really
[2913.97] Andy Symons: By winning off the training insurance things like that
[2917.81] Andy Symons: So I was actually expecting a nice productive interview
[2921.89] Andy Symons: Uh, and uh, just like you did when you were going live they said right
[2925.73] Andy Symons: So I'm handing you through to the studio now
[2928.77] Andy Symons: Uh, we're about to go live. Please don't swear
[2932.53] Andy Symons: And then the presenter first question was uh, is this a disaster waiting to happen?
[2938.21] Andy Symons: Uh, and then she spent basically five minutes trying to get me to say that that was the case
[2944.69] Andy Symons: Not listening to what I wanted
[2948.21] Andy Symons: Got to the point where I got rather frustrated with a broker off mid question
[2953.41] Andy Symons: And said to her so, you know, I says at this point we have no confirmed incident
[2960.69] Andy Symons: None whatsoever
[2962.37] Andy Symons: Um, so her response was well, there's all these reports. What are they all ufo's?
[2968.13] Andy Symons: My response being well, that's like the flying objects has yet unidentified
[2972.67] Andy Symons: UFO is definitely what they are. It's just the new way of spelling ufo seems to be dr. One
[2979.65] AndyRC: It's it's interesting. It's interesting, isn't it? Because
[2982.93] AndyRC: They're they're they're before drones existed. There were ufo sightings and now ufo sightings
[2992.37] AndyRC: Seem to be just called drone sightings
[2996.13] Andy Symons: Clearly we're not in not in not interesting enough to all these aliens anymore
[3001.33] NJ: Yeah, they need to they definitely need to step their game up
[3004.93] NJ: I mean, it's it's a funny thing, isn't it? It's I don't know if many people know
[3010.29] NJ: What else costs the aviation industry about one commercial aviary aviation industry about 1.2
[3017.25] NJ: billion
[3018.53] NJ: dollars a year and that's birds
[3020.93] AndyRC: Yeah, there's there's plenty of other things but they never get a mention the public
[3026.05] AndyRC: never scared but but what they didn't realize is that
[3030.13] AndyRC: Airports is there they they let off fireworks to scare birds away
[3035.01] NJ: And yeah, there's a lot of things fireworks is tannoy's as well doing
[3039.09] NJ: predatory bird noises, there's guys that walk around with
[3043.17] AndyRC: Those scaring and sound guns and all kinds of stuff. Why aren't the media saying? Oh, you know
[3049.33] AndyRC: There are there are these there are these other dangers it seems to be and and this and you know, i've made i've made a video
[3057.41] AndyRC: about this it's going to be in my
[3059.41] AndyRC: next video and um and and this
[3063.17] AndyRC: This I was like looking at all of this media stuff and I thought to myself, you know, there are no
[3070.59] AndyRC: positive drone news stories
[3074.21] AndyRC: then the news is
[3076.29] AndyRC: And it's it's kind of like a a bill hicks quote really, you know
[3082.21] AndyRC: There's no where are all the news stories about?
[3086.45] AndyRC: uh, you know, oh a group of people met today and they found a connection that they couldn't find anywhere else and
[3096.05] AndyRC: You know it helped to relieve their anxieties. Maybe depression maybe mental health
[3102.93] AndyRC: uh, and
[3104.45] AndyRC: They they did it safely and you know, and that is
[3108.13] AndyRC: The the main sort of concern is safety for the public when we all fly together
[3114.05] AndyRC: If if we see someone walking a dog as you know, i've been in a club before
[3120.61] AndyRC: And it was it was a closed off
[3124.05] AndyRC: Place yet people still would just walk straight across the uh, the runway that we had cut out
[3132.45] AndyRC: um
[3134.05] AndyRC: You know and and so so people don't know the the positive side of it and I don't I I guess the media
[3141.89] AndyRC: You know that it's that's not interesting. Is it to them?
[3145.57] AndyRC: Oh the actually the it's helping a lot of people the the drone
[3150.77] Andy Symons: Positive drone stories is it it's positive stories on anything? Um, they just yeah
[3156.61] NJ: Doesn't sell papers does it? Yeah, you're absolutely right
[3159.41] NJ: But you know, ironically, of course just about every
[3163.01] NJ: Uh, probably a program every 30 seconds that you're watching on tv is shot with aerial footage from a drone
[3169.65] NJ: Just about all the media that will see the footage from them. They'll all be
[3174.29] NJ: You know using drones themselves this but it's the buzzword it's the thing of hate on and it's getting all the clicks
[3179.57] NJ: So and it's a little sad to see
[3181.81] NJ: As uh has been mentioned in the chat already that the the bbc are kind of really
[3187.25] Andy Symons: Click baiting a lot of that shall I say but well between you and me and the gatepost don't tell anybody
[3193.09] Andy Symons: But it was the bbc radio station. I was on when they were trying to really yeah
[3198.45] AndyRC: Which is interesting because the bbc is you know, it's publicly funded it's meant it's meant to have
[3205.25] AndyRC: no agenda, but
[3208.05] NJ: That's an agenda. I think a balanced balanced journalism is is the term that was supposed to be
[3215.17] NJ: Something that's not particularly there anymore. Is it unfortunately?
[3218.45] Curry: Yeah, I blame the advent of 24-hour news. They can't have journalism
[3223.01] Curry: In news now. They just have to like something's happened. Let's get someone's opinion
[3226.69] Curry: Let's really have some twitter posts
[3228.77] Curry: Oh, yeah
[3229.97] Curry: Interviews with weird people that is a really really good point. There isn't enough news for the amount of
[3235.65] Andy Symons: news production
[3238.05] Andy Symons: Uh, so that that's where things get sort of carried away, isn't it and then dragging on news to out throw with it
[3244.85] Andy Symons: You know
[3245.65] Andy Symons: There just isn't enough stuff happening to warrant the amount of news that we get
[3249.65] AndyRC: Yeah, that news 24 channel was brilliant because uh, I watched it and every 10 minutes tony was on it for an entire
[3257.33] AndyRC: Because because they they just loop the and and and now they got update on at gatwick
[3263.73] AndyRC: And then there's the the video of tony standing on a van and every every 10 minutes
[3269.97] AndyRC: because
[3271.17] Andy Symons: If you had an honest news 24, it was going to be does not mean any news for the past 10 minutes
[3276.37] Andy Symons: Here's some news from earlier and that's going to be the bulk of the news for the day, isn't it? That's what it was
[3281.73] Andy Symons: Yeah
[3283.01] Frank: I mean, I think the important thing about all of this is, you know
[3285.97] Frank: When you see a story you actually have to go back to the original source
[3290.45] Frank: And and see what it was because I mean there's all this kind of drone hysteria hyping up the risk of drones and everything
[3296.69] Frank: But I think it works the other way as well because I I went back and looked through
[3302.21] Frank: I can't believe i'm defending chris grayling here because yeah, but um, he's if you go back to his original statement that was you know
[3309.57] Frank: being
[3310.77] Frank: Reported in the press everywhere as being all they're coming hard down on drones and giving police powers and everything
[3315.97] Frank: And the natural quote here from him was we can pass new laws until the cows come home
[3321.09] Frank: But that does not stop people breaking them and the law is as tough as is necessary to punish the perpetrators of an attack such
[3327.33] Frank: as this
[3328.05] Frank: Yeah
[3328.85] AndyRC: Yeah, I mean it's the most difficult thing as well to
[3333.01] AndyRC: To to catch somewhat. I mean the thing that you are seeing that is doing the maybe the illegal thing
[3339.65] AndyRC: Is you know, the person could be miles away doing it and you know
[3344.37] AndyRC: And it's finding where that signal's coming from and all it's it's something that can't really be policed
[3351.57] Andy Symons: Can it you know, it's a difficult one, isn't it? I mean it'd have to be a technological solution to it
[3357.89] AndyRC: yeah, what like maybe it may it may be just like a a blocker or
[3361.97] AndyRC: Yeah
[3362.77] AndyRC: A tap at a tap or it's that just you know
[3366.05] NJ: This is the other thing that dom robinson alluded to in his interview
[3370.05] NJ: radio interview recently, which was that
[3373.25] NJ: A lot of this drone this drone technology that you know, we're paying for by the way
[3377.73] NJ: All this military technology and stuff that's coming in doesn't work
[3381.25] NJ: Uh, and it's not going to it's not going to work. It just costs hideous amounts of cash
[3387.09] NJ: um
[3388.53] NJ: And that's that's an issue
[3390.21] AndyRC: Why didn't it work? Surely if you just like block just just
[3395.33] AndyRC: You know come or or or is there laws against doing that like can't you know?
[3400.45] Curry: For one thing you you may not have a radio signal doing it. Yeah
[3404.53] Curry: Even if you lost gps the thing could fly on
[3407.41] Curry: Onwards on it like a it can be
[3410.37] NJ: Gps waypoint path and it's just doing a circuit
[3413.01] NJ: Ah
[3414.45] NJ: Whatever
[3416.21] NJ: It's uh, and then at which point it's like well, what kind of technology do they have to shoot?
[3422.03] NJ: Electronic things down out the sky and then it's it's well
[3425.09] NJ: There's a lot of electronic things in the sky that don't need to be shot out and it's all a bit complicated
[3429.81] Andy Symons: Yeah
[3430.77] Andy Symons: It's not a straightforward
[3432.45] Andy Symons: I have to say, um, I didn't think the idea of uh,
[3436.45] Andy Symons: I know a couple of people have asked, uh, this is for you when
[3440.53] Andy Symons: They the drone hit squad
[3442.77] Andy Symons: Um on the basis that you know, we then suddenly started getting lots of reports of drone by the police
[3449.41] Andy Symons: flying around
[3450.69] Andy Symons: Putting a load of other guys there with drones flying around all that's going to do we generate hundreds more
[3456.21] Andy Symons: Uh drone reports, uh, so I don't think that was ever a sensible solution
[3460.13] Frank: I mean even if you look at uh, he throw the other day and you know
[3464.21] Frank: There was a police helicopter hovering above looking for a drone and immediately there's photos and videos everywhere of
[3471.17] Frank: You know a strobe and a red light and a green light and people going oh
[3475.01] Frank: It's definitely a drone. It's like it's definitely not that is a helicopter if ever I saw one
[3480.45] Andy Symons: Yeah, I mean there wasn't some sightings like some frames and all sorts and and that's
[3487.01] Andy Symons: I think it's well known that um
[3490.29] Andy Symons: Um eyewitness reports tend to be some of the most unreliable
[3494.45] AndyRC: They're very sensitive but not very specific. I think I think a lot of ufo reports used to be
[3500.85] AndyRC: Those there's lanterns that you could buy which you can buy
[3504.45] AndyRC: Quite, you know anywhere
[3507.09] Jack: You know, they kill kill owls and stuff like that. Tony's well against them. I'm dead against them as well. Yeah
[3514.37] AndyRC: Yeah, yeah, there was a um, I even thought there's oh because there's a cluster of ufos there
[3521.33] AndyRC: because they they they move so slowly especially when at night when it's um
[3528.13] AndyRC: When the winds come and I thought oh my god
[3530.45] AndyRC: I'm actually
[3531.25] AndyRC: ufo is a real and then I thought and then I got closer to them and it was just a bunch of people
[3538.13] AndyRC: Letting a load off them off like, you know
[3541.33] Andy Symons: Ufos are real. There's just something flying around that you haven't identified. Well
[3547.17] Andy Symons: Necessarily have little green men on board coming down to probie
[3550.95] Jack: Oh
[3561.11] AndyRC: I
[3563.11] AndyRC: Know we're coming close to to the hour, but i've got a bmfa specific question andy if that's okay
[3571.11] AndyRC: because we ran into uh
[3573.43] AndyRC: sort of a
[3575.03] AndyRC: issue when I say we
[3577.11] AndyRC: um, I I go to a
[3580.07] AndyRC: indoor flying club
[3582.71] AndyRC: And it's it well, it's not registered as a club. It's just a group of guys
[3587.83] AndyRC: that um
[3589.27] AndyRC: know
[3590.07] AndyRC: uh, like the the um
[3593.83] AndyRC: The thing is to have master of a school and they let us use the sports hall for a couple of hours
[3601.19] AndyRC: and the the the rule is that
[3604.63] AndyRC: uh, you have to
[3606.15] AndyRC: Have a bmfa membership whether that's a club membership or or an individual
[3612.55] AndyRC: membership
[3614.15] AndyRC: and all of us guys
[3616.15] AndyRC: At the when we went when we went to the nec
[3618.95] AndyRC: We uh re-registered
[3621.51] AndyRC: uh our bmfa
[3623.67] AndyRC: uh insurance
[3625.67] AndyRC: um, but nothing came through the post whereas
[3629.19] AndyRC: Last year you got a little card and and for fpv is by the way
[3634.39] AndyRC: The the little card the little card that you get is a godsend
[3639.51] AndyRC: because
[3640.47] AndyRC: This last couple of years it's it's funny with all of these
[3644.55] Jack: The the media is not not your ear holes
[3648.07] AndyRC: sorry
[3649.35] AndyRC: Yeah, yes
[3650.87] AndyRC: Um, yeah
[3652.55] AndyRC: all of this stuff in the media
[3654.55] AndyRC: um
[3655.59] AndyRC: This last two two years
[3658.31] AndyRC: Sorry. Well, actually it's mainly been uh, well last last year
[3662.63] AndyRC: Should I say because we've just started the new year
[3664.71] AndyRC: I've had people come up to me and and say what are you doing?
[3667.99] AndyRC: You shouldn't be doing that and I I can just uh, get out of my wallets and get my bmfa card and go
[3675.83] AndyRC: uh, yes, I can sort of thing and and even even though it it you know, it doesn't
[3682.69] AndyRC: Technically technically like mean anything if you show someone some paperwork
[3687.83] AndyRC: They'll they'll just even because they know nothing about it
[3691.59] AndyRC: They'll they'll go off this shirt. I didn't receive that is that
[3696.07] AndyRC: Is that because we is that because we did it at the show?
[3699.99] Andy Symons: No, it's because you received it electronically
[3702.71] Andy Symons: Uh by the time you got up from the table because it was me that was doing this your email had arrived. Were you documented that?
[3709.99] Jack: Yeah, that's what the the password reset was for and moved us over to the new system
[3715.03] Andy Symons: Yeah, the the new system is now as soon as soon as you
[3718.15] Andy Symons: Do
[3720.15] Andy Symons: Um renew now or or join you get an email straight away with an attachment, which is your membership document
[3732.31] Andy Symons: You know, so and of course you can print it off carry it around with you as often as you like
[3738.07] AndyRC: Yeah
[3739.27] AndyRC: The problem is when you print off
[3741.91] AndyRC: something from a printer
[3744.47] AndyRC: Uh, you anyone could it doesn't it was like laminated. It looked official and uh, so
[3751.99] AndyRC: um, just
[3753.35] AndyRC: I'll tell you the problem that we had right is because it's not
[3757.27] AndyRC: um a club
[3759.43] AndyRC: What what you're required to do is to show your bmfa membership?
[3765.27] AndyRC: uh once a year, um
[3768.55] AndyRC: And what happened was because the the cards didn't come through
[3773.91] AndyRC: And a lot of the members are let's say older members that don't don't have email
[3781.67] AndyRC: they they didn't have the
[3784.07] AndyRC: Uh, they they didn't have anything and they actually couldn't fly
[3788.39] Andy Symons: Uh, okay, well, I mean that that's not a problem either because all they need to do is quit call to the office
[3793.67] Andy Symons: And we'll send them a printed copy up
[3796.95] AndyRC: Yeah
[3798.87] AndyRC: The thing is yeah, I I suppose it was it was just like I think the card thing was a good
[3803.91] AndyRC: Thing is what I wear is what i'm getting up, but it probably costs money and that's why it's gone electronic
[3809.83] AndyRC: but I think for well
[3811.83] Andy Symons: uh
[3813.11] Andy Symons: 25 000 pounds plus every year
[3815.11] Frank: Wow
[3816.87] Frank: In this specific case though
[3818.87] Frank: That there's the new like membership portal thing that gives a load more information for people managing clubs, right?
[3827.19] Andy Symons: Absolutely. Yeah, i've been uh, that's been the sort of taken at the bulk of my time for the past six months
[3833.11] Andy Symons: Uh, it's been it's been dealing with that
[3836.23] Andy Symons: Yeah, I mean I think it's great going back
[3838.95] Andy Symons: eight nine years ago
[3840.79] Andy Symons: I this before I was working for the PRK while i was still involved. I was the membership secretary at
[3849.19] Andy Symons: Between the two clubs we have 300 plus members
[3852.47] Andy Symons: I would have killed for this new system
[3855.27] Andy Symons: I really would
[3856.55] AndyRC: um, you know
[3857.75] AndyRC: Oh, yeah. No, no, it's not it's not it's not the system. It's just it was just uh
[3863.11] AndyRC: I think I understand your point I do
[3866.79] Jack: Membership cards chiseled into stone. Oh, yeah delivered by a unicorn and you know
[3873.51] Andy Symons: Yeah
[3875.51] Andy Symons: I mean we get
[3877.27] Andy Symons: You know told that we need to get into the 21st century
[3880.39] Andy Symons: This is one of the areas where we have done. Um, I think the new system is fantastic
[3886.31] Andy Symons: um
[3887.11] Andy Symons: And put it this way the drone showed the number of people that were chuffed to bits that the phone pinged with their email
[3892.47] Andy Symons: with the membership documents before they got out of the chair where
[3897.51] Andy Symons: You know they were either the overriding opinion was wow that was quick
[3902.79] Andy Symons: Yeah, you know and we will provide printed versions for those that want them
[3907.83] Andy Symons: um
[3909.99] Andy Symons: Most of them sit in a drawer and never get used
[3913.51] AndyRC: Yeah, so so you can request one do you have to
[3916.79] AndyRC: You have to pay for it. No, no
[3919.59] Andy Symons: If they just contact the officer, can you send me a printed one? They will do and will it be the printed one that you got?
[3925.83] Andy Symons: No, it's not it's just going to be
[3928.55] Andy Symons: You know printed off but probably on a heavier duty card
[3933.35] Andy Symons: one of the things we are
[3936.31] Andy Symons: Looking at going forward for next year is perhaps another
[3940.23] Andy Symons: Option for a for a sort of plastic printed card was to weigh in those options though
[3944.79] AndyRC: Yeah, because I mean they were very durable as well because they had they were kind of like laminated. I just found them useful
[3953.03] AndyRC: You know
[3954.47] AndyRC: Like like I say just even though it technically didn't mean anything when people start seeing paperwork
[3961.19] AndyRC: um, but but if you uh
[3963.75] AndyRC: I mean for me, it wasn't a problem
[3966.47] AndyRC: This question really is for um, the people who didn't have email and and stuff and stuff like that
[3973.27] AndyRC: I have my phone with me. So I went to my email and when there's my my number it's the number that they wanted
[3981.11] Andy Symons: The first thing to do is is
[3983.67] Andy Symons: Is affiliate as a club?
[3985.51] Andy Symons: And then if you have a club administrator you can go along and you can show all the cards for all your members to the people
[3990.55] Andy Symons: That need to see it
[3992.23] Jack: So we you're telling us we need to open our own. Let's throw now
[3997.67] Jack: Yeah, go for it. Why not? Yeah, do it man. Let's do it because it might push
[4002.47] Jack: Frank over the edge
[4004.47] Curry: Oh, is that a god-take man? No
[4007.67] Curry: Andy I had a quick question again about the the registration thing and I know details are vague at the moment
[4013.19] Curry: But I ran a quick poll
[4015.03] Curry: On youtube just to understand what people were feeling about
[4018.55] Curry: With their register in wooden and I was wondering what what your membership was generally feeling because I was getting about a third of people saying
[4025.51] Curry: Under no circumstances were registered people sort of comparing it to sort of
[4029.25] Curry: Voluntarily put yourself on the sex offenders register. They were that worried that police were just going to target them as a
[4035.03] Jack: Yeah, it's just going to be a police christmas list. Yeah. Oh, look something
[4040.47] Jack: Is it and they'll just work the way down the list? Yeah
[4044.79] Curry: Do you get do you get a feeling from your members at this point about what are they are they going to do it are they against it?
[4050.95] Andy Symons: The well, I think most members
[4053.11] Andy Symons: Are responsible people without a doubt and they will do what they have to do to comply and be lawful
[4059.19] Andy Symons: Uh, I think most of them think well, actually we're already registered. We remember
[4063.75] Andy Symons: Um, I mean the primary purpose I think for registration is to educate
[4068.71] Andy Symons: Um, and they want they want to be able to contact people to educate them
[4074.79] Curry: Is educate here the word for search your house and
[4084.23] Andy Symons: I do think I think warrants are still required if you read the uh,
[4087.59] Curry: Lettish um, you know required. I I do get worried about the the
[4092.87] Curry: The the language behind that which is the reasonable suspicion that you know, and something that I mean, it's a little bit subjective, isn't it?
[4100.07] Curry: I mean it is but i'm not entirely sure it's any different to what's there now, is it no no
[4107.43] Curry: The powers are staying the same
[4108.55] Curry: They're just basically replicated it to give themselves a drone specific thing
[4112.31] Curry: But it's it's still when people put themselves on a list and say, okay
[4116.63] Curry: Yeah, I own lots of stuff then it does
[4119.19] Curry: I can see where their worry comes from because we've got no leads. What should we do?
[4123.11] Curry: Well, we've got a list of people that own drones. We should talk to all those guys. Surely it's gonna be
[4127.67] Curry: It's gonna make sense in that point of view
[4130.31] Andy Symons: Are you the way these things tend to go those that are registered? They're almost certainly not
[4135.83] Andy Symons: Um
[4141.35] NJ: I think it's probably there's there's there is a level of speculation
[4145.67] NJ: I mean there's speculation in so much of this as we've talked about because of the amount of gray area, but it's it's it's something we can't
[4153.35] NJ: Entirely speculate on until those powers are necessarily abused if we're in a position where
[4159.35] NJ: There's some point down the road
[4160.63] NJ: They do exactly that and they start, you know calling up people on the list
[4164.23] NJ: Then I think we've got something to uh
[4166.95] NJ: To challenge there. But um as the as we've said, there's there's just uh, so much up in the air at the minute
[4172.55] NJ: One thing I was wondering do we know if the actual uh, the the people that were arrested over this gatwick incident
[4178.63] NJ: Do we know if that guy who was a model fly and it turns out was a helicopter
[4181.51] NJ: I think he owned that they confiscated. Do we know if that he was a bmfa member or not?
[4186.71] Andy Symons: I can phone him if you want. Yeah, you'll phone him and ask
[4191.27] Andy Symons: I I think um, the biggest problem with that was the the media releasing information that they shouldn't be releasing
[4202.79] Andy Symons: So, you know I I've spent the first three
[4206.47] Andy Symons: Eighteen dealing with gdpr. Uh, you know, it's protection. So i'm fairly careful what i'm going to say
[4212.15] AndyRC: answer that one
[4215.59] AndyRC: The news that don't seem to cover that at all
[4218.47] AndyRC: Oh, these two people have had their christmas ruined. It was like two days before christmas
[4223.11] AndyRC: all they carried on talking about was drones and
[4226.39] AndyRC: Rick and it's like no you you need you need to
[4231.75] AndyRC: Yeah, that should be the news
[4233.91] Andy Symons: The media coverage was atrocious wasn't
[4237.91] Frank: Especially when it was specifically clarified in the leverson inquiry that it is not legal or appropriate for
[4244.79] Frank: The media to do that publish people's details of someone that's um
[4250.79] Frank: Just been arrested and not charged unless the police have deemed it important and released the information which they did
[4257.19] Andy Symons: No, exactly. I mean this is
[4259.67] Andy Symons: You know all the way through that it was the press. I think it was a fault. I can
[4263.91] Andy Symons: I mean, I don't know what the what information the police had or what the release to what they didn't I don't think any of us
[4268.95] Andy Symons: then
[4269.99] Jack: why if if
[4271.99] Jack: the boss
[4273.59] Jack: And the ex-wife both were decent. Hello boys. Why did they keep them for 36 hours?
[4279.99] Jack: Well, they say I have no idea
[4286.23] Curry: It's the police, isn't it? Yeah, you've seen 24 hours in police custody as soon as they get a suspect
[4291.59] Curry: It's like ignore all the investigations. How can we try and make the evidence fit our suspect now?
[4296.63] Jack: Yeah, tony lives near gatwick lives alone
[4300.95] Frank: Seen up on a van looking dodgy
[4304.07] Frank: Fpv gear. Yeah
[4305.91] Frank: complaining about things saying it hasn't been seen a policeman but moving away from speculation just for a second and moving on to
[4314.31] Frank: just just because one thing that uh
[4317.27] Frank: I think when really wanted to know was if someone did suffer that kind of same sort of scenario
[4324.63] Frank: Where it's all gone a bit pear-shaped and they're
[4327.91] Frank: Looking down the end of all this sort of trouble. Um, even though they've you know, not done anything but in like this in this case
[4335.43] Frank: uh
[4336.23] Frank: Would would it be worth contacting the bmfa? Are you going to be able to do anything to help or
[4341.43] Andy Symons: Um, it's hard to say I suppose each
[4343.81] Andy Symons: individual situation
[4346.13] Andy Symons: Would be different and certainly we would do all we could to assist based on whatever information we have
[4354.53] Andy Symons: Um, you know as always in these things, it's a lack of information, isn't it?
[4360.21] Frank: I've heard before that you've got you know
[4362.77] Frank: Because of your long-standing history
[4364.77] Frank: You know the sorts of people that would be helpful in this situation who know the law
[4369.41] Frank: Inside and out from a model aircraft perspective and and might be able to help but
[4374.29] Andy Symons: Yeah, I mean when it when it comes to sort of model aircraft regulation certainly we do
[4379.81] Andy Symons: um
[4380.77] Andy Symons: you know the the
[4382.77] Andy Symons: The difficulty would be I suppose once you're involved in
[4387.73] Andy Symons: Um, shall we say criminal activities?
[4390.05] Andy Symons: Um, you just have a lack of information to work on
[4393.65] Andy Symons: Um, you know and it's clear this couple. Yes, they have the christmas foil
[4399.97] Andy Symons: Uh, they would you know, they've been cleared
[4402.61] Andy Symons: uh in some respects from the
[4405.89] Andy Symons: The police side of things the system appears to have worked
[4410.93] Andy Symons: and despite
[4412.45] Andy Symons: Yes, the I mean the the intrude the intrusion and the issues were purely a media thing in mind
[4419.25] Andy Symons: in my view
[4420.53] Andy Symons: Um the way these things work if the police have some evidence
[4425.17] Andy Symons: um
[4426.45] Andy Symons: They then
[4427.81] Andy Symons: You know make arrests they then continue their investigation to try and gather further evidence
[4434.45] Andy Symons: bearing in mind evidence isn't proof
[4437.81] Andy Symons: um
[4438.61] Andy Symons: You know that and they have to put together enough evidence to warrant pressing charges which clearly once they investigated thoroughly there wasn't
[4447.01] Andy Symons: Therefore they were released
[4449.01] Andy Symons: in some respect
[4450.77] Andy Symons: That's the system working which is easy to say for somebody who wasn't involved and wasn't
[4457.33] Andy Symons: um
[4458.29] Andy Symons: The person that was arrested, uh, because I I dread to think how it was for them that I suspect, you know, it was
[4465.73] Andy Symons: It was an absolute nightmare
[4467.73] Andy Symons: and
[4468.77] Andy Symons: What we have to be thankful for is that the system did actually work and they were completely cleared
[4474.45] Andy Symons: Um, you know the people that should be casting it have to be the press on this one
[4480.05] Andy Symons: Um
[4480.77] Andy Symons: you know
[4481.49] Andy Symons: And and the difficulty we have we just all we can do is speculate because we've no idea what information the police were working on
[4489.33] Andy Symons: And it makes it very very difficult. All you can do
[4492.53] Andy Symons: You know is feel
[4494.29] Andy Symons: For this couple, isn't it?
[4495.89] NJ: uh, you know and hit the press so in terms of um, just back to that topic of um,
[4502.29] NJ: uh online presence
[4504.29] NJ: And I completely understand you're saying your your kind of general stance of the bmfa is with we're kind of too busy getting on with it
[4511.65] NJ: To really have that as too much of a priority
[4514.53] NJ: I mean if there are people who are looking to
[4516.93] NJ: Hear the latest from the bmfa on certain on topical things on on it's like multi rotors
[4523.49] NJ: Obviously, there's the website. Is there other things that are worth following? Is there?
[4527.81] NJ: Twitter a good place to find out what you're what the folks the bmfa are or certain things or where
[4533.73] Andy Symons: We we're certainly not active on twitter, um, we are active on facebook we have um our facebook page
[4541.97] NJ: uh not
[4549.17] Andy Symons: Yeah, we have our facebook page which is our sort of official, uh,
[4554.29] Andy Symons: Facebook communication
[4556.69] Andy Symons: Uh, we have a couple of pages a couple of groups
[4560.45] Andy Symons: uh
[4561.57] Andy Symons: The biggest group that's entitled bmfa on facebook isn't actually anything to do with the bmfa
[4567.65] Andy Symons: Quite frustrating and that does involve me telling people quite regularly. It isn't that the other bmfa
[4574.77] Andy Symons: Anyway
[4576.77] Andy Symons: um, so we we do we are active on facebook we
[4580.53] Andy Symons: We are getting a little bit more involved with instagram
[4583.89] Andy Symons: um
[4584.77] Andy Symons: But as I say at the end of the day, we've got fairly small number of employees
[4590.55] Andy Symons: Who are very very busy?
[4592.79] Andy Symons: Uh, we all do a lot more hours than we paid to do
[4597.19] Andy Symons: Um, thankfully, you know those of us that are classed I suppose are senior staff
[4602.23] Andy Symons: apart from model aircraft flyers
[4604.79] Andy Symons: Um, so we know that the work we do in not just any problem it benefits us
[4611.43] Andy Symons: Uh, you know and so we don't put a lot of time in
[4615.75] Andy Symons: It's having the extra time to do
[4618.95] Andy Symons: You know, it's almost a full-time job or you know these days with the speed of media and the news getting out there
[4625.67] Andy Symons: or the
[4626.47] Andy Symons: Don't say the speed of lack of news
[4629.27] Andy Symons: Whenever there has been anything worthy of posting a reporting
[4635.35] Andy Symons: A news article goes on the website
[4637.83] Andy Symons: Uh, there was one put on today by the chief exec specifically around the consultation
[4644.09] Andy Symons: What we don't do and I think we are still correcting in this
[4649.77] Andy Symons: Sort of uh process if you like is rush information out
[4653.85] Andy Symons: You know, we don't
[4655.21] Andy Symons: You know, it's not a good thing to do
[4657.37] Andy Symons: You see a lot of it rushing, you know people rushing information out which turns out to be incorrect or knee jerk
[4663.13] Andy Symons: And we don't think we should be doing that. So we don't you know, what goes out is considered
[4668.97] Andy Symons: uh, and very very accurate
[4671.53] Andy Symons: Um because it needs to be you know, I mean one thing I have learned
[4675.45] Andy Symons: It doesn't matter what you write down. You can think you're writing it in english
[4678.65] Andy Symons: But if you've got 30 000 people reading and you can say what it's going to be about 30 000 different
[4684.57] AndyRC: Takes on what you've written down. I think uh, we can all relate to that
[4688.57] AndyRC: Having youtube having youtube channels and people comments and things. Yeah, people take things
[4695.53] AndyRC: In completely different ways when even when it you know, your intention was something else
[4701.05] Andy Symons: Yeah, I I think it it's a it's a modern phenomena that
[4704.65] Andy Symons: We've evolved or human races evolved. So we're very very good at picking up the wrong end of a one-handed stick
[4710.71] Andy Symons: devolved I think would be
[4712.89] AndyRC: The the way to describe it maybe
[4716.09] AndyRC: Yeah
[4717.13] NJ: I think we've got a spark
[4722.41] NJ: Romanis king just donated 20 pounds. Thank you very much. Romanis appreciate that
[4730.97] Tony: Oh
[4734.57] Andy Symons: The primary reason i'm not setting up fireworks is i'm still setting the office let's fight jack
[4740.89] AndyRC: Apparently apparently that these fireworks are for jack love the hair it says
[4750.97] Frank: Well, thank you very much andy for coming on um
[4755.69] Frank: and so yep, so
[4758.33] Frank: as covered by
[4760.33] Frank: J, so and andy's answer, uh, so facebook seems to be the best place to follow. So it's facebook.com
[4768.01] Andy Symons: Official you can always just email us of course
[4774.89] NJ: I hope you can get you back at some point andy that would be great because as as we were saying about
[4781.85] NJ: yeah, as we were saying about the the the kind of uh
[4785.69] NJ: The not to jump to being too reactive thing and and people looking for answers every little help certainly and and you coming on tonight
[4793.21] NJ: It's been uh, definitely a good thing to be able to chat about some of these topics. So yeah much. Thanks
[4798.81] Andy Symons: Happy to come on again at some point in the future and and dev was quite disappointed
[4803.45] Andy Symons: He couldn't make it this evening and he's more than happy to come on again as well in the future at some point
[4808.73] Jack: Will you let him know that i'm very disappointed in him?
[4812.49] Andy Symons: Okay, i'm sure he'll watch the uh, he'll be watching the video later. I'll know i'm expecting the max out in the morning
[4821.93] Jack: In honor, um, by the way, this is a personal favor. Uh, I got a friend called Sheldon who got banned for flying his foam
[4831.21] Jack: airplane from the brighten
[4834.33] Jack: uh group could can we
[4837.29] Jack: Can we get them to can you can we send a message via your channel to tell them to grow up?
[4843.13] Jack: uh, well
[4845.13] Andy Symons: One thing uh, one thing I um, I know for definite, uh, especially in my role as club support officer
[4851.77] Andy Symons: And there's always at least two sides to every story
[4856.25] AndyRC: There are um often many more
[4860.01] AndyRC: Being in clubs over the years there there are
[4863.77] AndyRC: A lot of conflicts that go on which I imagine you have to deal with
[4868.57] AndyRC: uh
[4869.61] AndyRC: Internally with clubs that that was my experience of being in a club. Anyway, so it may have changed
[4875.45] Andy Symons: Well, you've got to bear in mind with 850 plus clubs
[4879.77] Andy Symons: Um, and i'm the only one dealing with the club issues
[4883.77] Andy Symons: Um on top of dealing with everything else dealing with sort of the website membership
[4890.27] Andy Symons: Um
[4892.27] Andy Symons: It's a small amount of my time dealing with fallouts, uh, which to me suggests
[4898.75] Andy Symons: that
[4899.87] Andy Symons: Actually, there isn't that many up and down the country personally
[4903.31] Andy Symons: Clubs are a great place to be but not everybody fits in the club scene
[4908.27] AndyRC: Yeah, fpv is is sort of different. Um
[4911.79] AndyRC: because it's more about um
[4914.75] AndyRC: It's more about the cinematography
[4916.67] AndyRC: So if you if you I mean I I always fly from the same spot and
[4921.55] AndyRC: Even these guys give me grief about it. And I think that's the so what you're probably fine with with bmfa
[4928.03] AndyRC: Uh is especially since um, you know park flies and stuff became more accessible. I imagine your individual membership
[4936.91] AndyRC: Shot through the roof compared to club membership or or
[4941.39] Andy Symons: I think the biggest thing that affected
[4944.11] Andy Symons: Sort of individual membership or country membership and such was making it very very easy for people to join direct
[4952.03] Andy Symons: And what and what really raised the number of country members
[4956.51] Andy Symons: Was when we first launched our initial online
[4960.03] Andy Symons: membership portal about
[4961.95] Andy Symons: five years ago
[4964.27] Andy Symons: Because people just thought i'll just go online and do it yourself
[4967.15] Andy Symons: um
[4968.35] Andy Symons: Now that the new system allows people to do that and still be associated with
[4974.43] Andy Symons: Um, I mean i'm expecting the number of members to drop
[4979.39] Andy Symons: Sorry, yeah country members to drop
[4981.55] Andy Symons: Yeah, because it's no longer a case of if you join direct
[4986.03] Andy Symons: You have to be a country member which up until
[4988.99] AndyRC: Ah, right. I understand. Yeah, um, just one that I know I know we're going way over. Sorry guys
[4995.63] Frank: Yeah, we're all right
[4998.03] AndyRC: Yeah
[5000.43] AndyRC: How how does um, how how does does one go about?
[5005.15] AndyRC: Attaining like the the a and the b test if they are not in a club
[5009.95] AndyRC: Are there are there a specific event such as western park where where people can take their?
[5017.63] AndyRC: A and b tests and stuff like that the space
[5021.95] Andy Symons: The achievement scheme's actually open to everybody. You don't have to be in a club
[5026.11] Andy Symons: You don't even have to be a member
[5027.87] Andy Symons: Um, we you know, if you're not a member and you want to do an a and a b test
[5031.87] Andy Symons: We actually extend the bmfa insurance to cover you
[5035.39] Andy Symons: uh, you know for the
[5040.43] Andy Symons: One of the things that we have a couple of
[5044.43] Andy Symons: Where I am now at bookminster
[5046.83] Andy Symons: We have a couple of fly-ins every year where we have plenty of examiners on hand for advice
[5052.19] Andy Symons: That you can come along to
[5056.83] Andy Symons: A gene for examiners and whenever i'm here if somebody wants to go and take a test
[5062.35] Jack: Yeah, because we need to make andy rc and one of us
[5066.41] Jack: examiners
[5067.47] Jack: so that
[5068.67] Jack: It will work nicely for the let's drone out club
[5074.19] Andy Symons: Once you've got yourselves organized and you're affiliating
[5079.79] Andy Symons: Let's drone out
[5080.99] Andy Symons: Yeah
[5081.23] Andy Symons: Once you've got somebody who's busted b test and held it for six months you're putting forward to be an examiner
[5086.27] Andy Symons: We'll send somebody along they'll run him through the assessment and then you can go to death
[5090.75] Jack: Okay
[5091.63] Jack: All right
[5093.23] Frank: Right. All right. We'll do that. Well volunteered andy. I'll see
[5097.55] AndyRC: Oh, I just I just wanted because my b test is fit in fixed wing
[5102.27] AndyRC: So, um, I I don't know. It's just an I I I like the whole scheme and I think I think um
[5109.71] Andy Symons: I have to say i'm a big fan of the scheme. I always have been i've been involved ever since I started flying
[5115.79] AndyRC: I mean, I mean that that is that was the standard for clubs is that
[5121.07] AndyRC: Uh, you know if you wanted to fly solo you had to have the a test if you wanted to fly at an event
[5128.59] AndyRC: Which clubs organize you had you had to have a b test and I think that was
[5133.15] AndyRC: a good way of showing proficiency and this is this is why it's annoying that you can just go into dixon's buy a phantom four
[5141.79] AndyRC: and
[5142.75] AndyRC: And and just fly it for me
[5145.23] AndyRC: For me, I think you should have to take a test to be able to show that you are
[5151.15] AndyRC: You know proficient in flying. I know a lot of these guys probably wouldn't agree, but that would solve a lot of problems
[5157.39] Andy Symons: I'm not entirely sure I agree to be honest
[5160.11] Andy Symons: Wait, why why why is that?
[5162.51] Andy Symons: Because we want to be accessible as possible to everybody. Um, I think people need to be
[5170.91] Andy Symons: You you're not actually correct
[5172.91] Andy Symons: In that most clubs ask the air certificate to fly unsupervised it it's slightly under 50
[5179.55] Andy Symons: And they want the air certificate to fly unsupervised
[5183.47] Andy Symons: um
[5184.59] Andy Symons: But certainly all clubs will have something in place because of a duty
[5189.95] Andy Symons: Members, they you know anybody in the area to ensure that um, you know the people doing what they
[5197.15] Andy Symons: Do we now? Yeah have a certain competence
[5199.87] AndyRC: I think things have probably changed quite a lot because back in the day when I was in a club
[5205.71] AndyRC: Their models were much more dangerous. We're talking everything was nitro. It was big. It was heavy. So maybe that's
[5213.31] AndyRC: That's why
[5215.39] AndyRC: You know, it's not required so much anymore
[5218.59] Andy Symons: I'm not entirely sure the fact that it's bigger and the heavy makes it any more dangerous
[5224.59] Andy Symons: Um the biggest claims on being a feature
[5229.23] Andy Symons: Um
[5230.43] Andy Symons: You know the
[5231.79] Andy Symons: The big thing with your sort of traditional model flying over the years it's taking place in fairly remote locations
[5240.03] Andy Symons: Uh if something goes wrong, you know, and it does crash and they do
[5244.75] Andy Symons: All model aircraft of one form will crash at some time or another is there's nothing around to crash into on the ground?
[5251.39] Andy Symons: um, so so generally, you know, it's a very very
[5256.11] Andy Symons: um, you know safe
[5258.35] Andy Symons: In well an example of how safe is I think it's just faster than the bmfa insurance really
[5264.43] Andy Symons: uh when you consider the the insurer's record something like five million flights by members a year
[5272.51] Andy Symons: um, and
[5274.75] Andy Symons: Any year there's usually between about 25 claims a year
[5280.67] Andy Symons: um, you know, so that's a phenomenally small number, um
[5285.63] Andy Symons: But and and that's due to I think the the responsible attitude
[5290.99] Andy Symons: You know model flights have taken for decades
[5295.23] Andy Symons: And that's something that you know, we need to
[5298.83] Andy Symons: Sort of educate everybody on it, you know, if you act responsibly, you know
[5303.87] Andy Symons: Make sure you're being lawful. It's not an issue
[5306.91] Andy Symons: uh as soon as uh, you know people start pushing the end a lot, you know
[5311.87] Andy Symons: And one person thinks he's perfectly safe and reasonable somebody else isn't going to agree. You know, you've always got that
[5320.51] Andy Symons: um
[5321.63] Andy Symons: You know, I mean I see a lot on uh, social media stuff
[5326.83] Andy Symons: And we're not just talking drone flies
[5328.59] Andy Symons: It's the same for model aircraft flies as well
[5331.47] Andy Symons: And what we need the community to do is to come down
[5334.75] Andy Symons: you know, there's
[5336.75] Andy Symons: You know if somebody's doing something it affects all of us
[5340.59] Andy Symons: Uh, and I think going forward I suspect that peer pressure will be the best
[5346.75] Andy Symons: Method of preventing the irresponsible people and anything it'll do a lot more than any regulation will do
[5353.95] Andy Symons: um because a lot
[5355.95] Andy Symons: of what happens now with with youtube and that is about
[5360.59] Andy Symons: Getting the lights, isn't it and getting the views?
[5363.71] Andy Symons: Um, and I think you know if the peer pressure suddenly says well, hang on should he be doing that?
[5369.63] Andy Symons: Um, I think that'll have more of a effect
[5374.21] Andy Symons: My personal view of course
[5378.38] Jack: Jolly good, right. Should we call it there? Please before okay. I'm very sorry frank
[5384.06] Jack: Thank you. You've been listening to let's throw now you've been joined by edgy slash rank. Goodbye
[5389.68] Jack: That winding noise that sounds like a pc fan's got a bit of dust stuck in it was andi rc
[5396.0] AndyRC: Do I do I sound that bad really good either? Just a northern accent, mate
[5402.08] AndyRC: Nothing at all wrong with the northern accent I was gonna say and andi sounds much more north than me
[5408.72] AndyRC: So i'm convinced I i'm convinced we haven't got an accent
[5413.28] Jack: Yeah, yeah, yeah i'm the same
[5415.92] Jack: Uh
[5417.92] Jack: Yep, ad from the bmfa
[5421.28] Jack: Thanks, everyone. No worries nj tech. Okay guys. See you next week. My little toner
[5429.28] Jack: Au revoir and everyone's favorite curry kittens. Goodbye
[5434.08] Jack: And i've been jack bright to life lie. Thank you guys for all your donations. Please don't forget that we need to survive
[5441.6] Jack: And if you can throw a few coffers into the patreon you get bonus content giveaways
[5448.96] Jack: And naked photos of tony. Good night