=== Let's Drone Out — Episode 196 ===
Title: LDO 196 - BMFA 2: The Legislating
Recorded: 2019-05-30
Hosts: Andy, Jack "Brightontillifly" Nash, Andrew "Frank" Hyams
Guest(s): Andy Symons, Dave Phipps
Total audience: 2,744
Platforms: YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWxWkTgx4b0); SoundCloud (http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/feeds.soundcloud.com/stream/630032904-letsdroneout-ldo-196-bmfa-2-the-legislating.mp3)
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https://bmfa.org/Portals/0/CEO/CAA%20-%20Letter%20to%20Members%20-%2030042019V3.pdf

https://bmfa.org/News/News-Page/ArticleID/2587/Call-to-Action-Update-Meeting-with-the-CAA-Please-read-and-share

https://consultations.caa.co.uk/finance/drone-registration/

https://www.caa.co.uk/Our-work/Make-a-report-or-complaint/How-to-make-a-complaint-about-the-CAA/

https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/department-for-transport/about/complaints-procedure#making-a-complaint-to-the-department-for-transport

[0.0] Jack: Hey guys it's Jack here, big massive shout out to our patreons. So these guys are the guys who donate
[9.84] Jack: for the editing and they really do make a huge difference to keep the show alive.
[17.12] Jack: We've been sponsored by Art Faulkner, Ferdy Evers, Mikey Dread and Under Fluke.
[23.2] Jack: These guys are absolute legends. Thank you so much and see you next show.
[30.24] Jack: Hello and welcome to this week's episode of Let Drone Out. Possibly the best FPV
[68.37] Jack: podcast that's on right now. Why possibly? Surely it is the best. RC groups might be still on,
[78.37] Jack: I don't know whether they do that thing on a Thursday. We have a treat special. Today we
[86.53] Jack: are joined by Andrew slash rank. Hello. The reason why we're all here, Andrew RC.
[94.69] Andy: I'm confused, I don't know who you mean. Me? Hello everybody. Your name's Andy RC.
[101.73] Jack: We've got Andy, is it Andy Simms? I'm very sorry. Good evening. And we've got
[110.13] Jack: Dave whose name escapes me. I'm sorry Dave. But most people call me Phillips.
[119.97] Andy Symons: It's good to see the pre-show researchers.
[123.73] Andy: Well, if it how he forgot my name and I've known him for two years.
[131.09] Andy Symons: How can you forget his name like RC doing what we do?
[134.29] Jack: Wow. I'm very bad at this.
[139.33] Andy: Which is why I said possibly the best.
[142.85] Jack: And I missed the BMFA last time I wasn't there. So there's this whole new territory to me.
[150.77] Andy Symons: Even though it's fireworks this time over, I'm very disappointed in you.
[154.77] Andy Symons: What's up?
[155.81] Andy Symons: Not fireworks this time.
[157.33] Andy Symons: I've got fireworks, man.
[158.61] Andy Symons: There'll be fireworks, don't you worry about that. There's always fireworks.
[163.01] Jack: I didn't think they were approved for BMFA use.
[170.69] Jack: If the BMFA want fireworks, I have a sparkler and the sparkler is being lit.
[178.05] Andy: No, it's not.
[181.33] Andy: Is it an Aldi sparkler by any chance?
[184.85] Jack: This is celebrate. We've had a anniversary recently, haven't you?
[189.49] Jack: Three BMFA.
[191.97] Jack: We're heading that way.
[194.69] Andy: What was the anniversary?
[196.45] Andy: Wasn't it like a million years?
[198.13] Dave Phipps: It's two years time for the hundred years.
[201.17] Dave Phipps: Yeah.
[201.81] Dave Phipps: A hundred years.
[202.69] Dave Phipps: Three years time. 2022.
[204.69] Dave Phipps: 2022.
[207.01] Frank: Spanning ahead.
[208.93] Frank: So about a month ago, we had Andy Simmons on and we were talking all about BMFA affiliation
[215.73] Frank: of clubs and how the BMFA was supporting local groups, startup, grow, get hold of
[223.57] Frank: sites, keep hold of sites, deal with councils and all that kind of thing.
[229.17] Frank: And we said at the end of that show, it would be good to have Dave on because you've been
[236.13] Frank: involved a lot more on the other side of things, which the BMFA do, which is the
[240.77] Frank: dealing with the authorities and legislation and all that sort of thing.
[244.69] Frank: And since then, there's been an awful lot happening.
[249.41] Frank: We've been inundated with calls to action.
[254.93] Jack: I can't wait to spend my money on £16.50 than fireworks.
[262.45] Frank: This is the thing is that there was this announcement,
[268.45] Frank: quite a CIA about a bit more detail about the registration process that's
[273.25] Frank: legislated to be coming in in November.
[276.77] Frank: So start in October and be required in November.
[279.89] Frank: And the big takeaway that everyone took away from it, it seems, according to Facebook,
[285.01] Frank: is the £16.50.
[287.73] Frank: But from what I've seen, there's a lot more to it because it combined.
[294.93] Frank: You know, you've met up with the other UK Model Aircraft Association.
[300.61] Frank: So FPV UK, LMA and Scottish Arrow Modelers Association.
[307.09] Frank: Thank you very much.
[309.01] Frank: And had a big get together because you saw quite a few other problems with
[314.45] Frank: what was suggested and the process generally from what you could tell.
[319.57] Frank: Yeah.
[321.09] Frank: Would you mind kind of going through with us a bit what kind of the headline issues there are?
[327.33] Dave Phipps: Yeah, I mean, the issue for us was that we were in negotiation with the CIA and DFT
[335.41] Dave Phipps: for a good part of the last three years.
[339.33] Dave Phipps: And last November, we were still in negotiation with them.
[344.53] Dave Phipps: We thought it was ongoing negotiations.
[346.29] Dave Phipps: But in January this year, they published their response to the 2018 drone consultation,
[355.01] Dave Phipps: which also said that there are ongoing discussions with us.
[359.65] Dave Phipps: But at that point, they weren't.
[362.05] Dave Phipps: And then in March, they introduced the changes with the flight restriction zones and so on,
[369.81] Dave Phipps: which they only gave us three weeks notice.
[372.69] Dave Phipps: And then more recently, they published CAP 1775,
[377.73] Dave Phipps: which is purely a consultation on how much they're going to charge for the registration scheme.
[382.93] Dave Phipps: But within the text of the document, it did reveal that they'd already decided what the
[387.49] Dave Phipps: policy was going to be without further discussion.
[390.93] Dave Phipps: So that included things like age restrictions, competency requirements,
[396.21] Dave Phipps: and the registration scheme itself, all of which were strongly opposed to.
[402.37] Jack: I've got my registration number already.
[405.33] Andy Symons: Yeah.
[407.81] Andy Symons: It's not going to be a £16.50 yet.
[412.29] Frank: This is going to be a personalized registration.
[414.61] Jack: T-0-N-Y-1-S-G-A-Y.
[421.57] Dave Phipps: It's certainly readable from a meter away, so you're fine.
[424.37] Andy: I think we just found out why Tony didn't want to come up with it.
[432.77] Andy: Somebody must have tipped him off.
[435.57] Jack: I'm well up for a personalized registration.
[438.77] Andy: That's interesting then.
[442.13] Andy: The £16.50 thing is not set in stone, and you guys say you're dead against it.
[448.37] Andy: Can you sort of elaborate on why that is?
[452.29] Andy: Is it because it may put people off going down the BMFA route?
[461.25] Andy: Because you guys for years have had competency systems.
[467.81] Andy: Some clubs will say, yeah, it's necessary to have a certificate or B certificate to fly solo,
[474.61] Andy: but it's not a necessity.
[476.69] Andy: It's kind of become a standard, and then they're saying, oh, well,
[480.05] Andy: we've got this separate standard, which if you're a BMFA member,
[489.01] Andy: you're already sort of saying that I'm serious about this hobby.
[492.93] Andy: I'm serious about safety, therefore, if I've got to pay another £16, then that's not fair.
[502.13] Andy: Is that the answer?
[504.69] Dave Phipps: I think the issue was that we spent the last three years negotiating with
[511.01] Dave Phipps: EASA on the European regulations, and what we agreed with them was that model flying
[519.33] Dave Phipps: would be essentially outside of the EASA regulations.
[523.09] Dave Phipps: It would continue as it does under national regulation.
[528.21] Dave Phipps: We could register members on their behalf into the system,
[532.13] Dave Phipps: so there was no need to enter a separate parallel system.
[537.25] Dave Phipps: But I think the issue was that the government tried to guess what the EASA regulations would say,
[542.93] Dave Phipps: but a year before they were actually finished, and they got it wrong.
[547.33] Frank: Because a big part of the EASA registration kind of model, they've put out this template
[554.45] Frank: of what they think it should be, and a big part of that is saying, you can give your local national
[561.73] Frank: associations the kind of powers, you can kind of delegate off to them.
[567.41] Frank: For model flying, yeah.
[568.93] Frank: Exactly, for model flying.
[571.49] Dave Phipps: It's not just model flying, it's model flying conducted within the framework of an association
[576.85] Dave Phipps: but the club is just a different way that the Europeans describe an association, essentially.
[584.53] Dave Phipps: In terms of the £16.50, I think the issue for us was, it wasn't just the money,
[592.13] Dave Phipps: it was the fact that the CAA and the government were wanting our members to register in a parallel
[597.49] Dave Phipps: system, and it was the fact that the CAA and the government were wanting our members to register in
[604.21] Dave Phipps: a parallel system. And any additional hurdles and hoops you put in front of people,
[613.01] Dave Phipps: you're going to get people that don't jump through them, and model flying by its nature has always
[617.49] Dave Phipps: had a very low threshold for entry. It's always been very easy for people to participate,
[622.29] Dave Phipps: and anything that discourages them is going to be a detriment to all of us.
[626.77] Jack: It was in France.
[629.25] Dave Phipps: Yes, there's been a reduction, certainly, in participation in France,
[636.21] Dave Phipps: and that's even with it being free.
[639.49] Andy: Wow, that's not good news. I didn't realise that then, so they brought registration in
[645.33] Andy: France and it was free, and it sort of put people off. The crazy thing is, it's not even...
[654.13] Andy: It's not even... We're being affected, but it's targeting... I was talking to Jack on the phone
[661.49] Andy: before the show, and it's... The issue is not the hobby world, the issue is the person that can go
[669.09] Andy: into the Apple store, go into Argos and buy a Phantom and just take off. It's those that...
[678.61] Andy: And then it seems like we're all having to suffer. So, what can we do? Is there anything
[686.21] Andy: that we can do at this point? The £16.50 thing is just like a placeholder. It's not,
[693.89] Andy: despite what is all over the meter, it's not set in stone. Is there anything that we can do?
[699.89] Dave Phipps: Yeah, I mean, I think the important thing to do is to respond to the
[703.81] Dave Phipps: CAP1775 consultation. I mean, I think they've had a huge response to it. I think they've had
[710.61] Dave Phipps: at least 10,000 responses so far. Also, in terms of CAP1775, it was only a consultation on the
[720.05] Dave Phipps: level of fees, so it didn't give people an opportunity to comment on the other issues,
[724.77] Dave Phipps: like the age restrictions and like the competency requirements. And that's why we encourage people
[729.97] Dave Phipps: to embark on this letter writing campaign to voice the concerns about the other aspects,
[735.09] Dave Phipps: not part of the fee consultation. So, I mean, that's proved quite useful. It's put pressure on the
[744.29] Dave Phipps: Department for Transport and the CIA. It's managed to get them all back around the table and talking
[750.29] Dave Phipps: to us. And the response has been so big that certainly the CIA have had to employ somebody
[757.17] Andy: just to deal with the responses. Right. So, we still don't have anything set in stone that
[764.93] Andy: this is the way that it's going to be when it comes to November or whatever with the fee.
[771.41] Dave Phipps: I suspect it will be quite different. I mean, I think the issue is that they've come up with
[777.17] Dave Phipps: some estimates based on experience in the US and in Ireland, but experience from two or three years
[785.09] Dave Phipps: back when the sales of recreational camera drones were probably significantly more than they are
[791.65] Dave Phipps: now. So, I think their prediction of 170,000 operators is a little bit over the top. I mean,
[801.09] Dave Phipps: last year, my estimate to them was that they would get the model flyers plus maybe the same number
[806.61] Dave Phipps: again. And certainly the work we've done recently with the trade would suggest that that's a more
[813.97] Dave Phipps: likely estimate than the numbers they're working to.
[817.17] Andy: Because the proposal as well, it isn't just drones, it's anything now, isn't it?
[822.85] Andy: All unmanned aircraft, yeah.
[824.69] Andy: Yeah, which is just, you know, and because a lot of this is sort of like online and
[832.77] Andy: it makes me wonder, you know, that there's a generation that might not even be aware that
[840.53] Andy: this proposal has come in because, you know, they might not be a BMFA affiliated club,
[847.65] Andy: they might not have the internet, they might be breaking the law and not even know it.
[853.73] Andy: Yeah, quite likely.
[855.41] Andy: And that doesn't seem fair somehow when they've been acting in this way for 50 years or so,
[862.77] Andy: you know. So, yeah, it just doesn't quite sit.
[869.01] Dave Phipps: It's only going to be a tax on people that would always operate lawfully anyway.
[873.01] Dave Phipps: So, if you're dropping contraband into wormwood scrubs, you're not going to be registering or
[878.29] Dave Phipps: taking the competency test.
[880.21] Andy Symons: You're certainly not going to stop doing it on the basis. You've forgot to register yet.
[885.41] Andy Symons: I'm not going to deliver these drugs today because I haven't registered yet.
[889.25] Andy: Yes, exactly. I mean, we share, yeah, we share the same thing, you know, and, you know, I'm in
[895.89] Andy: like a local club that does, we do sort of, sort of tiny works, but I'm fixed wing and the majority
[904.69] Andy: of the fixed wing guys were like, oh, this, what this affects us, really? What? We've been doing
[910.53] Andy: this forever. And it's like, yeah, why do, why not? Why not? Why change, you know?
[915.41] Jack: You might as well have a sex offender test, and then they show you pictures and they're like,
[919.25] Jack: do you find children attractive? No. Do you feel the urge to rape? No. Pass that competency test
[925.49] Jack: and then still pay 16 pound 50 to put the wrong ones on the list.
[931.09] Andy: I don't think it's quite like that, Jack.
[933.33] Andy: It feels like it.
[934.61] Andy: I was trying to, I was trying to, I said, okay, if this 16 pound 50 thing comes in,
[941.41] Andy: I'll pay it because, you know, there are other hobbies where you have to pay to,
[947.73] Jack: you know, to do, you know, and they were all cheaper except salmon fishing.
[953.81] Jack: They were owning a shotgun, cheaper.
[956.85] Andy Symons: As I think you've got to bear in mind or ask the question, what do we get for our 16 pounds 50?
[962.77] Jack: Nothing else. Yeah, you get coke and whores.
[965.49] Andy Symons: Yeah, if you've got a fishing license, you get something back for your money. You get the,
[975.01] Andy Symons: you know, the river stopped and maintained. We get in absolutely nothing for 16 pounds 50.
[981.57] Jack: No, your door kicked in when someone sees a plastic bag floating around Gatwick,
[987.41] Jack: and you get put in custody for 36 hours.
[991.89] Dave Phipps: Because the police just work the way down the list of
[995.33] Dave Phipps: registered people in the area and go and knock on all the doors.
[997.89] Jack: Yeah, it's like a Christmas list, isn't it?
[1000.45] Frank: The other side is, if this is, the registration is meant to be a proxy for,
[1006.29] Frank: are you competent? Are you meant to be flying? And if the test is the police go up to you,
[1013.41] Frank: and they go, are you registered? And you say, yes, I am. Does that mean that they're going to be
[1018.45] Frank: perfectly fine with you flying something over one with scrubs? Or it's not, they've got to still
[1023.81] Frank: know what's right and what's wrong. So it doesn't actually change.
[1029.17] Andy Symons: And myself and Dave had a little bit of a chat earlier, and it was something we were talking
[1034.77] Andy Symons: about is, you know, potentially you'll have people, they'll go on, do the registration,
[1040.37] Andy Symons: they complete this online competition test, and then they'll consider themselves safe.
[1046.53] Andy Symons: When, perhaps all they'll have is some knowledge of what the regulations are.
[1051.49] Andy Symons: And so, whatever they come up with the final sort of iteration of, it does need to make sure that
[1059.09] Andy Symons: everybody who has done the test is aware that they still perhaps need a lot more knowledge
[1064.53] Andy Symons: before they start going out and operating.
[1067.41] Dave Phipps: Yeah, I mean, one of our big arguments is that it's completely disproportionate for the
[1073.09] Dave Phipps: risk of the activity. So, you know, I could go out tomorrow, strap myself to a 70 kilo
[1080.37] Dave Phipps: foot launch paramotor and take off into the air with no registration, no testing or anything.
[1088.29] Dave Phipps: So asking model flyers and drone pilots to take a test every three years is completely
[1095.41] Dave Phipps: out of proportion to anything else.
[1097.41] Andy: Yeah, it's like they're trying to find a solution to a problem that doesn't exist yet.
[1103.33] Andy: Yes.
[1103.81] Andy: It's like when airline pilots before drones or model aircraft, they would say,
[1109.97] Andy: oh, I've seen a UFO, but no, because drones exist, they're like, it was a drone.
[1115.49] Andy: And that seems to be the thing that's coming up. But what I think what we all want to note,
[1121.97] Andy: though, is are you guys, do you think that you can come up with an agreement
[1130.37] Andy: for this for BMFA members or do BMFA members and model flyers need to act as well as you guys?
[1140.61] Dave Phipps: We need everybody to act because it's strength in number.
[1143.81] Dave Phipps: And how can we do that?
[1145.81] Dave Phipps: So we've put some stuff on the BMFA website with a call to action. So
[1151.97] Dave Phipps: emails and letters to the aviation minister, emails and letters to the CIA.
[1157.57] Dave Phipps: And what is particularly useful is emails and letters to your MP.
[1162.21] Dave Phipps: Now, obviously, a lot of these things receive fairly standard responses. Certainly, in terms
[1167.17] Dave Phipps: of responses that MPs have been sending, we've challenged quite a number of them on the basis
[1172.61] Dave Phipps: that they've been sending a standard template that they've got from the DFT. Yet they say that
[1179.17] Dave Phipps: they will respond to template letters from their constituents. So we've gone back to them and said,
[1183.65] Dave Phipps: you won't accept a template letter from your constituent. Why are you sending them a template
[1188.05] Dave Phipps: response? And there's quite a few that we've managed to engage in ongoing dialogue. And that's
[1193.73] Dave Phipps: quite useful. And they in turn raise questions directly with the secretary of state or the
[1200.93] Dave Phipps: aviation minister. And that helps keep the pressure on.
[1204.69] Andy: Yeah, it's a really difficult one, isn't it? I mean, I suppose in the scheme of things,
[1210.61] Andy: for them, what's going on politically at the moment, this just isn't important
[1215.41] Andy: for them. They're like, oh, no, we've got this. We've come up with a figure. And it's like,
[1220.53] Andy: yeah, I just.
[1221.57] Dave Phipps: They're certainly not forgetters. I mean, the other thing is, you know, at present,
[1225.49] Dave Phipps: one of the things that we're looking at is the possibility of the associations registering as
[1231.57] Dave Phipps: operators. So the four UK associations would pay the CIA 66 pounds per year,
[1238.69] Dave Phipps: rather than our members paying them 660,000 per year. And that's something that the CIA are
[1246.61] Dave Phipps: exploring at present. Yeah, whatever. What was that? Sorry. So so so so we we would register as
[1254.37] Dave Phipps: the operator and our members would be our remote pilots and that would remove the age
[1260.21] Dave Phipps: restrictions. All the members would be required to do would be to take the free test every three
[1266.13] Andy: years. What was that? What was that about the age restriction thing? Because I've been doing
[1271.49] Andy: this since I was like 10 years old or whatever. And you know, I was I was training people at the
[1277.97] Dave Phipps: age of 12. So this is one of the frustrations. I mean, with the EASA regulations,
[1286.69] Dave Phipps: if you're operating in the open category, they've set the age at 16. But member states can drop it
[1292.45] Dave Phipps: down to 12 for the operator. The UK government based their regulations on what the EASA regulations
[1302.05] Dave Phipps: said a year ago. And at that time, they said 18. So they've got that slightly wrong. But in terms
[1310.13] Dave Phipps: of the remote pilot, there is no age restriction. So that might be the way forward for us. I mean,
[1318.93] Dave Phipps: the other thing is, you know, in the EASA regulations, within the authorization that we
[1327.49] Dave Phipps: should get in a year's time, that doesn't specify the age limit that's down to us to
[1333.09] Dave Phipps: negotiate with the civil aviation authority. And it doesn't have to be the same as it is in the
[1337.09] Andy: general law. Yeah, I think as a BMFA member myself, and I have been for many years, I think that's
[1345.89] Andy: what I was hoping that would happen with this is is that, you know, being part of the organization,
[1353.81] Andy: you that would sort of not waver but cover this whole mess that's happening. And that's what,
[1361.25] Dave Phipps: you know, that's what our objective was. And that's what we're still working towards.
[1364.85] Andy: Well, that's really good to hear. And hopefully, that is the outcome.
[1369.81] Dave Phipps: Not just us, but you know, we're working in close collaboration with the other associations.
[1376.05] Andy: Yeah, because one of the things that I hear is, you know, oh, well, if we have to pay the 16 pound
[1382.61] Andy: 50, then you know, what am I get? Obviously, you get the insurance thing from from the BMFA. But I
[1388.37] Andy: think people, you know, I mean, I'm prepared, I'm prepared. If it turns out that it's 16 pound 50,
[1395.97] Andy: I'm like, it's a hobby, I'm prepared to pay that. But it like you say, there are many people that
[1401.49] Andy: won't. So, you know, it's good to hear that that is still at this time an option, because I thought
[1407.89] Andy: at this point, it was sort of out and it was kind of like, no, you're gonna have to pay your BMFA
[1415.25] Dave Phipps: bill. And then this extra 16 pound 15. No, and anyone that's written to
[1422.69] Dave Phipps: the CIA will have had a response, which does say that this is an option, that we could be an
[1428.05] Dave Phipps: operator as remote pilots. So it's something that they have offered themselves.
[1434.45] Andy: That's good to hear because obviously, you know, the BMFA, the reason to, you know, for me anyways,
[1443.41] Andy: is to be a member is for the insurance purpose as well. So, you know, that'd be just another reason
[1451.97] Andy: for everybody to sort of get back because I think it's always good to add insurance.
[1458.69] Dave Phipps: Yeah, I mean, our hope was that, you know, the registration would be something that we could
[1465.25] Dave Phipps: incorporate as a membership benefit. So people would join and wouldn't have to do anything else.
[1470.21] Andy: That was our objective at the outset. How would that work? Because they're talking about
[1475.65] Andy: having to have your registration number written on your model. So if you were the operator,
[1483.01] Andy: would we all have this same registration? Well, you would all have the same operator number,
[1490.37] Andy: which sort of renders it fairly pointless, doesn't it? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, because they find a model
[1496.85] Andy: and it's got the BMFA's registration number. They'll just ring me up. They'll ring you up and
[1501.41] Andy: you'll go, I don't know. Basically, yeah, that's right. Yeah. Oh, well, it's good to know that,
[1511.17] Andy: you know, that these, because we don't hear this, you know, we just hear that
[1515.89] Dave Phipps: we've got to pay £60.50 and that's it. No, I mean, I think one thing that is
[1522.69] Dave Phipps: fairly certain is that, you know, you'll not be paying £60.50.
[1528.13] Andy: Well, that's really, that's encouraging to know. That is really cool. Yeah.
[1534.13] Andy: So that's a good, good read. But, but it's not finalised. So do you guys know when,
[1541.81] Andy: I mean, it's been, it's great you guys came, was it April that you came on this? Or was it before,
[1547.73] Andy: might have been before? It'd be great. So this, so as things progress, then it'd be,
[1555.09] Andy: it'd be great for you guys to come back and just like, I mean, we're working towards the
[1561.49] Dave Phipps: November deadline, because that's when the changes to the law that were made last year
[1566.61] Dave Phipps: come fully into effect. So that's when you've got the competency requirements and the registration
[1571.41] Dave Phipps: requirements. Yeah. So that's what we're working towards. Because this £16.50 thing, the last
[1577.17] Andy: time you were on wasn't a thing. So no, like, this is the thing that you're, you're addressing,
[1582.37] Andy: and then you guys can come on and then say, hopefully, give us an update of, you know,
[1589.81] Andy: what the progress of that is. And hopefully, it's positive.
[1593.73] Dave Phipps: Yeah, I mean, what would you know, the discussion that we had yesterday with the CIA,
[1599.65] Dave Phipps: you know, all they can really do is work within the very tight constraints that the government
[1605.25] Dave Phipps: have defined in the policy. So to get any significant change, it's got to come from
[1611.81] Dave Phipps: the government level. So we've got a meeting with the aviation minister next week. We'll see
[1618.77] Andy: where we get to with her. Awesome. That's great to hear what you guys are, yeah, what you're
[1625.73] Andy: getting up to. Are you going to have time to be at Western Park in two weeks time?
[1630.61] Dave Phipps: I might be either delivering stuff or collecting stuff, but I don't think I'll be there for the
[1634.29] Andy Symons: whole weekend. I'm not going to be there this year. I'm going on holiday. Western Park, I'm
[1640.93] Andy Symons: not on holiday. When you consider how many weekends we end up doing.
[1647.25] Dave Phipps: Yeah, I am actually working that weekend, but not at Western Park.
[1651.97] Andy: Oh, right. Andy, are we going to Western Park? No, Andrew slash Frank.
[1658.53] Andy: Are we going to Western Park, no matter what, on the Saturday? What are your guys' plans?
[1666.69] Frank: We do have an Airbnb book, so we'll be coming up on the Friday. Me and Jack and
[1675.57] Andy: maybe one or two other people. Tony, Tony, please come because my friend Phil wants to
[1682.45] Andy: meet you, wants to give you some fireworks. If that's not a reason to come up, then I don't know
[1689.65] Andy Symons: what is. We hope you're all going to be joining us at the Nationals in August, of course.
[1694.37] Andy: Yeah. I've never been to the Nationals. Well, you should be there. We've got
[1700.85] Andy Symons: a World Cup event for the drone racing this year. We have them there a couple of years ago,
[1710.29] Andy: so we'll expect you to broadcast them. Did you say broadcasting?
[1716.53] Andy: Absolutely. That sounds like a challenge. We did that at Mini Air Show and it was a lot of fun.
[1721.49] Andy Symons: The gauntlet is through. Well, I'm hoping to be at your Mini Air Show next year.
[1725.41] Andy: That would be good. That would be good. Although, I apologize for the podcast part
[1730.45] Andy: because it gets a bit out of control. Sorry about that. I went for a quick one.
[1740.53] Andy: There you go. It was the angriest. I had a 16-pound fifth day.
[1746.45] Andy: You didn't hear, Jack. They're trying hard.
[1750.53] Jack: No, I did. I was listening. I was listening. Apparently, we all get the same registration
[1755.73] Andy: number. Yeah. You've just spent a fortune on. Did I hear that your registration number's
[1763.89] Andy: reflective as well, Jack? I heard a rumor. Yeah, retro-reflective.
[1771.01] Andy: Perhaps what we could do, now we've got the BMFA here, is maybe you could propose
[1777.01] Andy: the registration number as being that. I'm sure Tony would really appreciate.
[1784.53] Jack: The BMFA would get a very healthy donation. That was the very, very,
[1794.85] Jack: might even lifelong memberships. Can you imagine getting your BMFA news
[1800.13] Andy: through the post and it's saying, this is what you have to write on this side of your mind?
[1806.13] Andy: We'll send everybody a sticker.
[1809.97] Jack: One thing that does seem to fall down is the online competency test. Who says that it's
[1816.77] Jack: definitely you taking it? The other thing is, I wasn't going to register. Then, Currie Kitten
[1823.33] Jack: turned around and said, well, I know all your details. I'm going to register for you.
[1830.45] Jack: I can't win.
[1834.77] Andy: Jack wants to get out of the hobby because he's so angry about this thing.
[1839.01] Jack: Oh, God. It's just a fun tax. We are literally paying Gatwick back and letting the CAA.
[1849.09] Jack: I've met one of the guys at CAA. He seems all right. They're going to have their Christmas party.
[1856.05] Andy Symons: Oh, my God. They're not going to be able to afford a Christmas party,
[1860.53] Andy Symons: but they're not going to pull in enough money to follow the cost of doing this.
[1865.73] Andy Symons: You asked for your Christmas party.
[1867.57] Dave Phipps: Yeah, I think the problem was that it's not really a money-making venture for the CAA.
[1871.81] Dave Phipps: Someone's going to be making a lot of money out of it, but it's the operating cost.
[1876.53] Dave Phipps: Sorry. I'm so sorry.
[1877.81] Dave Phipps: $2.8 million just to run it each year.
[1881.57] Frank: Yeah, because when we had Jonathan on from the CAA, he was very much then saying,
[1889.17] Frank: we don't want it. It's a stupid idea.
[1891.73] Andy: He did say that, didn't he? He agreed that it was just really the DJI crowd, I think,
[1897.97] Andy: is how he called it, but then it becomes multi-rotor and we all get put into the same box.
[1907.81] Andy: Then it becomes unmanned aircraft and we all get drawn in.
[1911.49] Andy: Yeah. Can't they just have it like Argos and Dixons, right? Here's your sticker.
[1918.93] Andy: There you go. The other thing as well is, these are custom things that we're building.
[1926.45] Andy: They change. They evolve. They have a different motor. They never stay the same.
[1933.25] Andy: They could be 250 grams one day. You put a camera on it. It's 300 grams.
[1939.57] Andy: It's just two.
[1943.09] Jack: Two things that I'm really not looking forward to is, A, you know 250 grams is going to be
[1949.25] Jack: exempt. Police aren't going to carry scales.
[1953.01] Dave Phipps: We did race it with the CAA yesterday.
[1955.09] Jack: All they're going to do is seize your things to be like, we need to check it, we need to weigh it,
[1962.45] Jack: and then they're probably going to pass it over to Ofcom. You're not going to get your stuff back
[1968.05] Andy: for a while.
[1969.89] Andy: Sorry to interrupt, Jack. What was the CAA's response to that?
[1974.85] Andy: There probably wasn't.
[1976.69] Andy: There wasn't, yeah.
[1977.97] Dave Phipps: You're just a shrug.
[1979.89] Andy: Yeah. You see, there are loads of tricks that we could do to get if we wanted to.
[1988.69] Andy: There's pit mode, for example. You plug the quadcopter in and it runs at 25 milliwatt until
[1996.69] Andy: you arm it, then it blasts out. If you had all your stuff seized, it wouldn't have a clue
[2002.93] Andy: what they were looking at or anything like that.
[2005.09] Andy: Where's the plug the battery in?
[2009.25] Jack: They're probably going to just employ the same person that's reading the CAA
[2013.81] Jack: letter response form, a giant shredder, and they're just going to put your things in there.
[2019.97] Jack: Lost in processing.
[2021.17] Andy: Somebody raised the question to me at my local group, and they said, how can 250 grams
[2032.21] Andy: include the fuel? In other words, the battery, whether it's a battery or whether it's nitro
[2041.89] Andy: or petrol, because that changes for certain models. You could take off above 250 grams
[2051.01] Andy: but land below it.
[2053.57] Andy Symons: It's always been the principle that the weight is unfuelled.
[2059.49] Andy Symons: Unfueled.
[2060.45] Andy Symons: Unfueled. Now, with a battery, the battery you've got to consider as the fuel tank.
[2068.29] Andy Symons: So the batteries have to be included, but whether the battery's charged or discharged
[2075.33] Andy Symons: doesn't matter, but the battery's going to be included in the all-up weight.
[2078.45] Andy Symons: But if it's petrol powered or glow fuel, the tank can be empty.
[2084.93] Andy: That doesn't seem fair then.
[2088.13] Andy: Weird things in life are fair.
[2090.45] Andy: Yeah, all right.
[2091.73] Jack: Yeah, you're not going to crash it. Oh, it's empty now I'm going to crash it.
[2095.01] Frank: Well, to be fair, if it's empty, you are going to crash it into something.
[2098.45] Jack: Yeah, true.
[2099.49] Andy: Okay, so we need to figure out how to do nitro.
[2103.89] Jack: Can you imagine the police emptying nitro fuel out, do you know what I mean?
[2109.41] Jack: So we can weigh it.
[2110.93] Jack: Being like catching kids with alcohol.
[2116.61] Andy Symons: I don't think that's going to be an issue, because anything that's using
[2120.53] Andy Symons: either petrol or glow fuel is going to be over 250 grams.
[2125.09] Dave Phipps: Yeah, it'll be a tiny, tiny engine.
[2128.45] Dave Phipps: And also, what have you had of the police turning on?
[2131.81] Frank: There is that as well.
[2132.77] Andy: Well, are there more odds when this comes into place?
[2138.37] Andy: At the moment, I'm flying in a field, you see a police car drive past and it doesn't stop.
[2146.85] Andy: But then this registration thing comes in, and then they're like, right, okay,
[2151.73] Andy: so it's now our duty to check.
[2154.53] Dave Phipps: Well, I think the National Police Chiefs Council or whatever it was said,
[2159.25] Dave Phipps: it wasn't going to be a high priority.
[2161.57] Dave Phipps: But unless you're flying outside Gatwick, maybe.
[2165.49] Frank: And they're going to check your registration, aren't they?
[2167.57] Dave Phipps: Yeah.
[2168.69] Andy: Even though there was no drone at Gatwick.
[2171.57] Jack: But they got a chance to win a thousand pounds and unlimited time in jail.
[2178.53] Jack: There's a lot of stake in there for them.
[2181.81] Jack: I can kill Tony, which sometimes I feel like doing, right?
[2186.53] Jack: And I only get it like eight years.
[2189.49] Jack: If, you know, if I'm lucky, like I can, that's mental, isn't it?
[2194.21] Andy: I said, though, you know, like I try and think of it, but I try and because like,
[2199.49] Andy: I'm a reviewer, I try and, you know, see both sides of it and stuff.
[2203.89] Andy: And I'm like, Jack, if you want to drive, you have to have a driving license.
[2207.97] Andy: Yeah, but I get something out of that.
[2210.29] Dave Phipps: You don't have to pay for it every year.
[2212.29] Dave Phipps: You get sucked it out of that.
[2213.49] Andy: So you're saying you don't get anything out of the hobby then.
[2216.13] Andy: You get nothing.
[2217.25] Andy: You get nothing.
[2218.53] Andy: No joy.
[2219.57] Andy: No happiness.
[2221.33] Andy: No, no.
[2222.85] Jack: It doesn't really stick on a podcast with the BFI, which names I can't get right.
[2229.01] Jack: I think I'm an idiot.
[2231.17] Jack: Well, no, I mean, the thing is, you get something out of it.
[2234.29] Andy: You met me and it's the greatest thing that's ever happened to you.
[2238.69] Jack: But but like, yeah, it's like my driving license lasts for 10 years.
[2243.97] Andy: Yeah, your insurance is gone.
[2246.77] Jack: Yeah, but I can hold a license and not.
[2251.25] Andy: You're still on a list, Jack.
[2255.25] Jack: The DVLA list and this in Swansea as well.
[2258.13] Andy: Have you got one of those things that you're spraying your number plate
[2261.33] Andy: that makes it invisible to police?
[2267.81] Jack: What do you know about it?
[2270.93] Andy: I've seen your car.
[2272.45] Frank: I'm still trying to work out who actually wants the registration to happen
[2276.05] Frank: because the pilots don't want it to happen.
[2278.29] Frank: The associations don't want it to happen.
[2280.77] Frank: From when we are speaking to the CIA, they're not interested in making this happen.
[2284.77] Frank: So is it the DFT or is it?
[2286.77] Andy Symons: It's politicians that have to be seen to be doing something.
[2291.81] Dave Phipps: Ultimately, it comes from the European regulations that the basic regulation for aviation,
[2299.01] Dave Phipps: that's where it specifies that operators have to be registered.
[2303.65] Dave Phipps: And all the European laws and the UK laws all stem from that.
[2309.41] Andy: Interesting. That's new.
[2311.41] Andy: Yeah, because I think I think at first when, you know, all of the drones have always been
[2319.09] Andy: seen as negative. And then now when you see these news news stories about drones,
[2325.49] Andy: it's mostly all people defending drones we found and it's like the public actually.
[2332.93] Dave Phipps: Well, I think the important thing with the European regulations is that it was never really
[2340.29] Dave Phipps: solely about safety and security and about regulating recreational operators.
[2348.05] Dave Phipps: The main motivation for it was to create a framework to exploit the commercial potential
[2353.49] Andy: throughout Europe.
[2357.25] Dave Phipps: It's about encouraging industry and innovation. It's not about us guys.
[2362.61] Frank: This is getting onto the youth space and that side of things that's been happening where there's
[2368.53] Frank: being altitude sort of layers being set aside for commercial use. Is that what you mean?
[2377.81] Dave Phipps: That's part of it. I mean, to fully exploit the commercial potential.
[2383.17] Dave Phipps: We've got to create a space for them to fly in. And the difficulty is there's lots of things in
[2388.93] Dave Phipps: the air, which would be invisible to a drone that's flying beyond line of sight.
[2395.41] Dave Phipps: So you go on the paraglider, or you go in the glider or the hot air balloon.
[2401.65] Frank: How are they? What are they going to do with those? Because I mean, at the moment,
[2405.49] Frank: the paramotors, they're not registered or licensed or anything.
[2412.37] Dave Phipps: Ultimately, the only way that we can fully integrate unmanned aircraft into the airspace
[2417.81] Dave Phipps: is to make everything conspicuous electronically.
[2422.85] Frank: Yes, the electronic conspicuously. So this is the ADSB and that sort of thing where there's a little
[2428.77] Frank: transponder that brings out where it is and who it is and what it's doing and where it's going and
[2434.13] Dave Phipps: that sort of thing. Essentially. But I think that's going to be some years until it's fully
[2440.77] Dave Phipps: deployed because there's lots of resistance from other airspace groups like the glider pilots.
[2446.53] Dave Phipps: I mean, the balloonists argue, why do they need anything? If they can't be seen, then
[2452.85] Dave Phipps: it's a big problem. But obviously, it will be invisible to an unmanned aircraft.
[2456.69] Frank: I see what you mean. If you can't spot a balloon, you're going to have problems using the airspace.
[2461.81] Andy: I wondered about balloons. Do balloons have to register like a non-NDAA?
[2468.21] Dave Phipps: They have a G registration.
[2472.53] Andy: They have to register for a NOTAM or something, though, for a flight.
[2479.17] Andy: Well, they don't know where they end up.
[2481.73] Andy: No, they don't. I noticed that when the red arrows fly in formation to different places,
[2490.53] Andy: they issue a NOTAM because they fly. I think they fly at 500 feet still,
[2495.09] Andy: but they still issue a NOTAM. I thought, I wonder if balloons and stuff like that have to do.
[2502.13] Andy: But they don't. That's crazy. Whereas if we wanted to do that, we'd have to.
[2509.01] Andy: And it's just a little tiny drone thing that couldn't hurt anything.
[2515.17] Jack: I think the difference is with those sort of paragliders and balloonists,
[2519.57] Jack: as if they do fly into Gatwick's airspace and they do crash into an airplane,
[2526.69] Jack: then Darwin and all that. I think they pay their £16.50 once with their life.
[2537.41] Frank: But you say this, but microlights and hang gliders quite regularly
[2542.21] Frank: infringe on controlled airspace. They also have a lot less regulation on them than
[2549.89] Andy Symons: what's proposed for operators of small unmanned aircraft. Can you buy them in Argos?
[2557.09] Andy: Jack's going to get a big balloon.
[2558.61] Andy Symons: You can buy them on eBay.
[2559.57] Andy Symons: I think there must be intense in Argos.
[2561.81] Frank: Yeah. But you could get one of these. You could fly. I mean, you're probably not going to do well
[2571.73] Frank: if you try on your own. But with the vast majority of anything that we fly, if you just
[2576.21] Frank: bought one off the shelf and just tried to fly it, you're probably going to have a bad experience.
[2582.53] Jack: Didn't stop me with FPV.
[2584.77] Andy: Well, I think it's certainly a lot easier than it was 20 years ago, though, to be fair.
[2594.37] Andy: As I always say, you can't walk into people wherever you buy DJI's these days.
[2600.45] Andy: I don't know if I haven't been into a shop for about five years, so I don't know if he doesn't
[2611.09] Andy: have shops. The last shop I went into was Maplin and they sold all sorts of drones,
[2617.65] Andy: but they've gone. So I'm like, I think the actual store now and Dickson's and stuff like that,
[2624.29] Andy: maybe.
[2625.17] Jack: I wonder if Argos have to pay $16,000 for it.
[2632.13] Andy: This is what I'm saying. They should do. They should have to.
[2637.49] Frank: If you fly a microlight through controlled airspace and cause an airport to shut down
[2642.21] Frank: for a bit while they wait for you to get out of the way and tell you off, that doesn't hit
[2647.25] Frank: national news and that doesn't cause outrage and all that kind of thing. But I think that's just
[2654.29] Jack: Yeah, but there's no fear in it. You could see that as a person.
[2658.37] Jack: They'll say, if you do that, how's that actually happened?
[2661.57] Dave Phipps: Yes. There's lots of infringements between other GA and commercial air traffic each year.
[2669.33] Frank: Yeah, they do. There are quite often, you don't see them in the news so much. You might see them
[2673.81] Frank: in local news and you might see them in the CAA airprox reports and things like that. But there
[2680.13] Frank: are quite a few reports of microlights and things going where they shouldn't and being told off for
[2685.73] Frank: it. But I guess the other thing is traceability is that you can see the guy who's flying that is there.
[2693.41] Jack: Yeah. Jeffrey, you're silly.
[2698.21] Jack: Not over here.
[2701.65] Jack: Sorry to any microlight users.
[2704.21] Frank: Called Jeffrey.
[2705.41] Jack: Jeffrey and our editor who has to cut that.
[2710.13] Andy: Clive FPV says no Google slash Amazon wants that space. Is that true? Is that actually a thing?
[2716.77] Jack: Yeah, man. Theresa May is like a lizard robot.
[2721.41] Jack: Someone has to be Tony right about now.
[2723.49] Jack: It's a lizard robot and she's controlled by Google slash Amazon.
[2727.89] Frank: Amazon are using fields around Cambridge to test out autonomous and the sort of technology that
[2735.49] Frank: would be running beyond visual line of sight. And as we had at last year's mini air show,
[2745.01] Frank: there are plenty of people working on systems that are capable of doing autonomous flight
[2751.17] Frank: beyond visual line of sight fairly reliably. But currently being done with a dead man switch
[2759.33] Frank: from basically kind of having a buddy box, but giving the buddy box to a computer.
[2765.41] Frank: Getting it to do it that way so that you can take manual control.
[2769.89] Frank: But the technology is being developed fairly extensively and I wouldn't be surprised if it's
[2777.73] Frank: doable. Whether it's economically viable, I don't know yet.
[2781.01] Andy: But is this the drive for all of this?
[2785.97] Andy: It is. This is the drive for why we're being so heavily regulated against
[2791.49] Dave Phipps: Yeah, as I say, the European regulations were never really aimed at us guys.
[2798.05] Dave Phipps: It was all about creating a regulatory framework for commercial operations throughout Europe.
[2803.65] Dave Phipps: And we're just caught up in it.
[2805.57] Jack: Because if tourists don't get their Amazon fire stick in under 20 minutes,
[2812.13] Jack: she is going to throw cash at you.
[2815.73] Andy: To be fair, though, as a reviewer, if I need a 6S LiPo in 30 seconds, I'd hit that button,
[2825.41] Andy: I'd give it a go.
[2826.37] Frank: The funny thing is, I bet model shops pay more tax than Amazon do.
[2834.85] Andy Symons: Collectively possible, yeah.
[2838.93] Jack: I mean, we will.
[2845.89] Jack: Oh, my word. Exjet is here.
[2848.45] Jack: Are you kidding me?
[2852.61] Jack: I thought you hated us and would never show your face here.
[2857.17] Andy: Well, it's the BMFA.
[2859.33] Andy: And I don't know if you guys know about Bruce Simpson, but he does a lot of
[2866.13] Andy Symons: Yes, we do.
[2867.97] Andy: He does a lot of topical stuff regarding all around the world, the regulations.
[2873.33] Andy: So that's Exjet.
[2874.69] Andy: That's Bruce.
[2875.49] Andy: Oh, man.
[2876.61] Jack: I loved your build on the ZMR.
[2880.21] Jack: You taught me a lot of things.
[2881.57] Jack: I even made my own antenna.
[2883.49] Andy: We're all going to geek out now.
[2884.53] Andy: Bruce, you're the reason why my channel exists.
[2887.09] Andy: We want you to come on this show and talk about it.
[2891.49] Andy: He's based in, I nearly said Australia.
[2894.69] Andy: He's based in Tokoro in New Zealand.
[2900.93] Andy: Who was it we had on?
[2902.13] Andy: And I got a lot of trouble for that.
[2903.57] Andy: Oh, my God.
[2904.13] Andy: Because I said, we all know a lot about Bruce.
[2907.89] Andy: Tokoro, New Zealand, legend in the hobby.
[2912.69] Andy: Yeah, that's so cool.
[2914.13] Andy: Cool to see him in a chat.
[2915.81] Andy: Yeah, man.
[2916.69] Andy: Yeah, look, check out the chats going crazy now.
[2919.33] Andy: Love you guys.
[2920.77] Jack: I didn't even know we even know we existed.
[2923.25] Jack: I thought we were like a thorn in his ass.
[2925.81] Andy: Oh, no.
[2926.61] Andy: You know, he knows me and MJ exist because he mentioned us in a video.
[2931.33] Andy: We had this little nerd out like session together,
[2934.37] Andy: where he's like, Bruce mentioned us in a video.
[2938.93] Jack: Like a schoolgirl now.
[2942.93] Frank: To dangerously drag you away from this.
[2949.01] Frank: I think just as we've got lots of people in the chat,
[2952.13] Frank: we should just quickly go back over the calls for action
[2955.81] Frank: that the BMFA and the other UK model flying associations have been putting out.
[2961.81] Frank: So the biggest thing is to go to the consultation on the dream registration finance thing.
[2969.41] Frank: And all these links are in the description here.
[2972.45] Andy Symons: I'm just chucking.
[2974.13] Andy Symons: Chucking a few, if it'll take them on there now for you.
[2977.65] Andy: Also, I think Bruce should do a full analysis of our podcast
[2983.09] Andy: and put it on his channel about what you guys have said about what you're doing for the BMFA.
[2990.05] Andy: It's not always clear.
[2992.85] Andy: And I think it's great for you guys to come on and sort of clear up some of the stuff.
[2998.45] Andy: You guys are clearly working as hard as you possibly can to sort out this registration
[3005.89] Andy: thing so that serious hobbyists are not paying a full fit.
[3013.01] Andy Symons: I think the amount of work, especially that Dave's done in this past few weeks
[3019.57] Andy Symons: is incredible, to be honest.
[3021.73] Andy Symons: But over the past few years, he's spent a huge amount of time over in Germany and various.
[3028.05] Andy Symons: In fact, he spent so much time in Germany now.
[3030.05] Andy Symons: He leaves a towel on his chair when he leaves a desk.
[3036.21] Andy Symons: You know, when the CEA made this announcement a couple of weeks ago, Dave
[3041.73] Andy Symons: was being very naughty and having a short family break, which was cut short, obviously.
[3047.57] Andy Symons: And I think he spent the whole weekend dealing with various issues.
[3053.09] Frank: Yeah, thank you very much for your dedication to the hobby there.
[3058.13] Frank: It can't have been easy trying to bring these up.
[3062.13] Andy Symons: Well, I think the big thing is certainly self-have and Manny Williamson,
[3066.13] Andy Symons: our development officer, our role sort of model aircraft player team in various
[3070.45] Andy Symons: guided, you know, we've all got multirotors and various fixed wing aircraft.
[3076.05] Andy Symons: You know, so we are, while we work very hard for the BMFA,
[3081.41] Andy Symons: it's our hobby and our passion as well.
[3084.53] Andy Symons: Of course.
[3085.57] Dave Phipps: And of course, the most important thing is that you guys pay our mortgages.
[3088.93] Dave Phipps: So, you know, we have to work hard for you.
[3091.33] Jack: I'm right with that.
[3092.93] Jack: I'm just like sick of, you know, being like, everyone looking at me like I'm a goddamn
[3099.49] Jack: terrorist FPV.
[3100.93] Frank: Well, Jack, have you responded to the consultation?
[3104.93] Andy Symons: Yes.
[3106.05] Andy Symons: Good.
[3106.37] Andy Symons: Not to a point.
[3106.77] Andy Symons: It'd be shame to be enough.
[3108.21] Andy Symons: Fairly.
[3111.25] Andy: Jack, I think you should also, though, show them what you showed me
[3116.93] Andy: about what you wrote.
[3121.65] Andy: Is that something about blaming Tony for Gatwick?
[3124.69] Andy: And he got an ex class hidden under his van or something.
[3131.73] Jack: Whenever anyone goes to Gatwick, it wasn't you, was it?
[3135.17] Jack: And I'm like, no, it was this guy called Tony.
[3141.17] Frank: It's his address.
[3142.93] Andy: I'm I'm not sure if the BMFA guys know, but Tony, who is a regular on the show, when the
[3149.65] Andy: whole when the whole Gatwick thing happened, he's he's a what's he call it?
[3156.05] Andy: A window hygienist, losing hygienist, losing hygiene, which is which is a window clear.
[3163.97] Andy: Anyways, he stood on the when all this Gatwick stuff was happening, he stood on the top of his
[3169.25] Andy: van at the end of the runway with a pair of FPV goggles.
[3172.77] Andy: And for some reason, the media thought that looked suspicious.
[3179.57] Andy: So, yeah, but no, he was just trying to see if he could see anything.
[3183.49] Andy: You know, that's that's all there is.
[3186.05] Jack: There was no drone there.
[3187.25] Jack: It's just mass hysteria.
[3190.13] Jack: There is as much chance of finding like Tony with a wife in the next year.
[3199.25] Andy: And Tony's got a very good chance of having a wife, which is probably why he's not here now.
[3205.49] Frank: I've got a bagel on it.
[3206.69] Andy: So there we go.
[3210.45] Jack: Yeah, bagel and pregnancy bagel as well.
[3215.49] Jack: I went to the shop and I was like, yeah, my boyfriend Tony is coming out.
[3219.81] Jack: We're going to fly this.
[3220.61] Frank: So anyway, dragging this once again towards vaguely discussing what we were discussing
[3234.21] Frank: the calls for action.
[3235.33] Frank: So responding to the CIA's consultation on the cost of drone registration is the first thing.
[3244.77] Frank: The second thing is contacting your local MP and the CIA and the aviation minister.
[3257.25] Frank: And these again, these links are in one of the posts I've put in the description and letting
[3264.69] Frank: them know that you don't think any of this is quite right.
[3267.97] Dave Phipps: And then when you receive responses that you're not happy with to then
[3271.89] Dave Phipps: go back through the CIA or DFT complaints process.
[3277.89] Andy Symons: If anybody is getting the standard response from their MP,
[3282.05] Andy Symons: let us know because we have a response for those MPs, which is generating some feedback.
[3289.49] Andy Symons: I think we've had a couple of MPs prodded into action after their initial standard response.
[3295.49] Andy: And how can those guys let you know?
[3299.41] Andy: Have you got your emails?
[3300.61] Andy Symons: Yeah, just email email.
[3302.85] Andy Symons: You can email into me Andy at BMFA.org.
[3305.65] Andy Symons: And we'll make sure though, you know, send a copy of what the MPs have sent you.
[3310.45] Andy Symons: And then we will email here, contact the MP and obviously copy you in as well.
[3317.73] Andy Symons: And it is generating, it's forcing them to do.
[3322.61] Andy Symons: So it's important.
[3323.49] Andy Symons: And if anybody put the BMFA website with regular updates on the battle being put on there,
[3330.77] Andy Symons: there's one that's gone on today.
[3332.37] Andy Symons: If you subscribe to the newsfeed, you'll get all the updates as of when there's news to report.
[3338.69] Andy: Yeah, it's just how many people are going to be willing to do all of this, you know.
[3344.69] Dave Phipps: The CIA have had to employ someone to deal with the responses that they've been receiving.
[3349.33] Dave Phipps: So it's been quite significant.
[3350.93] Dave Phipps: So people are reacting to them.
[3355.01] Dave Phipps: We've received a lot of copies.
[3357.49] Dave Phipps: And one thing that's evident in most of them is the level of passion people have for
[3365.41] Dave Phipps: flying model aircraft and drones, but also how angry they are.
[3369.89] Dave Phipps: And it's very good that that gets conveyed to the government and the CIA.
[3374.37] Andy: That's good news then, because the first thing I think when I see all this is,
[3378.69] Andy: oh man, it's so much work for something that's meant to be fun, you know.
[3384.69] Andy Symons: It is worth putting that effort in to protect what we do and what we love doing.
[3393.25] Andy Symons: The effort is required, which is why we've stayed away from online petitions,
[3399.01] Andy Symons: which the politicians love.
[3400.61] Andy Symons: It's all they've got to do when everybody's done it is press a button and everybody gets a standard
[3404.45] Andy Symons: response. So in some respects, they're counterproductive. They make people think
[3411.09] Andy Symons: they've done something by signing it and then they don't do anything else.
[3415.01] Andy Symons: So the politicians love them.
[3419.97] Frank: If any of the issues in this show have made you at all angry,
[3423.73] Frank: you're much better off just writing emails to people.
[3428.93] Frank: It doesn't have to be war and peace either.
[3430.53] Frank: You can just say what you think in five words and that's fine.
[3435.25] Jack: People often write me emails saying that I'm a d**k, don't change something.
[3442.53] Andy Symons: I think it is worth pointing out that when you are writing to the CIA and MPs,
[3452.05] Andy Symons: it will be ignored.
[3454.21] Andy Symons: Most of them know it anyway, so they will be ignored.
[3457.41] Andy Symons: You've got to be civil, you've got to be reasonable in what you're sending.
[3462.13] Andy Symons: Otherwise, you're definitely not going to get a response.
[3464.61] Andy: We've just had a message from Bruce. It says, I'm about to try and organize the biggest
[3469.89] Andy: RC event in history of the planet. The goal is to restore the reputation and image of the hobby
[3476.77] Andy: in the hearts and minds of the public.
[3478.93] Andy: Wow, that's a big success.
[3480.45] Jack: What's that going to do? Have a bonfire consisting of DGI?
[3483.65] Andy: I think, yeah, he would love that.
[3490.53] Jack: He also requested, Andy, will you email him? He's got a plan.
[3496.37] Jack: Really?
[3497.17] Jack: No, not you, Andy.
[3499.09] Jack: Andy RC. I just said Andy.
[3501.01] Jack: Oh, I got all excited.
[3503.17] Jack: Andrew slash Frank.
[3504.37] Jack: I got all fanboy then.
[3506.61] Jack: There you go.
[3507.65] Jack: No, he doesn't care about us and our show. We're idiots.
[3510.93] Frank: Well, if you have enjoyed this show or it has struck a chord, please also do drop us a like
[3519.97] Frank: on the video or the podcast, depending on how you're consuming this media.
[3526.93] Frank: Hit subscribe and things and do all the likey stuff.
[3531.25] Frank: But yes, if you want to contact the BMFA, and as Andy has said, you can contact him on
[3539.65] Frank: Andy at BMFA.org. You can follow them at BMFA.org as well or Facebook.com forward slash
[3548.93] Frank: something I imagine.
[3550.45] Jack: He's BMFA official is the page.
[3554.77] Jack: Thank you. You've been listening to a wonderful episode of Let's Drone Out.
[3557.89] Jack: It was a good episode because Frank ran it.
[3560.77] Jack: Today's useful and insightful episode that I have slowly ruined into nonsense was brought
[3571.01] Jack: to you by Andrew slash Frank.
[3573.41] Frank: Bye.
[3574.13] Jack: Who's got an alcohol problem because we're such.
[3579.09] Jack: We're joined by Andy RC, who's been in the BMFA for when he was about this big.
[3585.49] Andy: Andy or Dave could probably live.
[3587.73] Andy: He's on my screen now.
[3591.17] Andy: He could probably look it up, but it's over maybe 24, 25 years.
[3601.73] Jack: You should have some gold stars given out to you.
[3604.37] Andy: I've got gold stars.
[3605.57] Andy: It's called the B certificate and I was a club instructor.
[3609.17] Andy: I'd love to.
[3609.81] Andy: I'd love to be an examiner, though.
[3612.61] Jack: Can you make that happen?
[3614.77] Jack: Me and Frank need our multi-roader licenses as well.
[3617.65] Andy: Could we make that happen if we turned up to the Nationals?
[3620.77] Andy Symons: I think you need to come up to Buckminster and things can happen.
[3624.77] Andy Symons: You see, that's not too far from me.
[3627.49] Andy Symons: When are the dates?
[3628.69] Andy Symons: I would suggest first weekend in August, we've got a flying at Buckminster, so nobody can come along.
[3635.81] Andy Symons: We've allowed the examiners, instructors on hand as well for guidance for anything.
[3640.37] Andy: That'd be, yeah, we should do something about that, guys, I reckon.
[3644.85] Andy Symons: It's when I'm organizing, so it'll be totally laid back.
[3647.81] Andy Symons: Are you sure you want me there?
[3651.73] Andy Symons: We have to have somebody to make the rest of us look good.
[3655.65] Andy: Well, Jack, you were fantastic on the microphone at Mini Air Show.
[3661.41] Andy: You didn't.
[3662.29] Andy: All three announcements.
[3666.45] Jack: Yeah, it was great, though.
[3668.77] Jack: We have joined by Andy from the BMFA.
[3671.09] Jack: Nice to see you all again.
[3672.69] Jack: We joined by Dave, also from the BMFA.
[3675.25] Jack: Thanks for listening.
[3677.09] Jack: I've been Jack Bright Until I Fly, and it's an honor to have you guys here,
[3682.37] Jack: and thank you for protecting what we love and what I appreciate,
[3687.09] Jack: and it really does help my mental health on a personal note.
[3692.61] Jack: If you love this show, don't forget, we have got Patreon.
[3697.09] Jack: It stops Frank from murdering me because then it means
[3700.13] Jack: that he has money for an editor and holidays away from me.
[3705.81] Jack: Thank you, and good night.
[3707.41] Dave Phipps: Right, Team Airs, bye.
[3709.01] Dave Phipps: Telemetry lost.