=== Let's Drone Out — Episode 203 ===
Title: LDO 203 - Sometimes Less Is More...
Recorded: 2019-07-18
Hosts: Andrew "Frank" Hyams, Tony "TheTonstar1" Marchant, Jack "Brightontillifly" Nash
Guest(s): Danny (Joker), Lee "Painless360" Schofield
Total audience: 2,315
Platforms: YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H747_M6rFAM); SoundCloud (http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/feeds.soundcloud.com/stream/653430212-letsdroneout-ldo-203-sometimes-less-is-more.mp3)
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Frank and Painless discussing the legislation as of June 2019; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyd6CK4MU20

Painless' video on arduplane;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkx0USN6kJE

Painless' video on FPV Raceband;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCcttwFD4TE

Franks Livestream from Woodsprings;
https://youtu.be/bZNbN0s1f2Q?t=280

[0.0] Jack: Hey guys it's Jack here, big massive shout out to our patreons. So these guys are the guys who donate
[9.84] Jack: for the editing and they really do make a huge difference to keep the show alive.
[17.12] Jack: We've been sponsored by Art Faulkner, Ferdy Evers, Mikey Dread and Under Fluke.
[23.2] Jack: These guys are absolute legends. Thank you so much and see you next show.
[30.24] Lee: Good evening. Welcome to Let's Drone Out.
[63.41] Lee: We are live. Good evening, my name is Lee. Some of you might recognize me as Painless360 and I'm
[70.85] Lee: obviously not Jack and the reason for that is pretty much everybody apart from Frank has found
[77.09] Lee: something more interesting or more important to do tonight. So I am taking over as host so apologies
[83.65] Lee: for that in advance. So as well as Painless360 you obviously have Andrew slash Frank. Hello.
[90.05] Lee: And that's all the introductions done. It's a lot shorter this year time, isn't it? We're going to
[94.69] Lee: do the legal notice at the top as well before we get into it because otherwise we'll remember in
[99.41] Frank: the middle as we're being controversial. Absolutely. So go Frank. Any views expressed by any guests on
[106.45] Frank: this show are personal and may not reflect the views of the hosts or any participant of the show
[111.09] Frank: or any of the people that have disappeared from the show this week?
[115.98] Lee: Yes. So with all that said, we can, and I love the fact that everybody, if you're listening to
[122.3] Lee: this on the podcast, you can actually interact with Let's Drone Out while it's being streamed live
[129.1] Lee: and there's a live chat running and I'm just looking at it all at the side of the screen I'm
[133.5] Lee: looking at now that has Frank drinking his beer. It's quite funny. Everyone's just saying, oh,
[137.98] Lee: okay, it looks like the grownups are in charge tonight. So thank you everyone for that. But you
[141.82] Lee: obviously haven't been out with me and Frank for a bit. So tonight it's going to be a very
[147.58] Lee: different format. It is literally going to be like the kind of chats that Frank and I have
[153.1] Lee: when we do occasionally bump into each other in the right part of the country and have a beer,
[157.18] Lee: or more typically, when Frank actually manages to get an hour away from work.
[166.7] Lee: I ring him for a quick three minute chat and we're on the phone for about an hour and a half.
[170.94] Frank: It's about standard. You've forgotten the few weeks of back and forth of each other trying
[177.18] Frank: to ring each other and neither of us being available. Oh, okay, right. Yeah, we do play
[183.02] Lee: telephone tag a lot. I thought you were going to talk about the two weeks in a field down south
[187.18] Lee: last summer. For those of you that don't know, I think, can I call you Andrew on this? Yes,
[195.02] Lee: confuse everyone, right? But I know he's Andrew. Andrew and I were involved in that. I don't know
[200.62] Lee: if any of you saw it last year. It was a thing that Love Productions did for Channel 4 called
[205.34] Lee: the Model Squadron. And it was a group of RC modelers from both the UK and Germany recreating
[213.74] Lee: key battles in the Battle of Britain. And it was an experience, I think we'll call it that.
[221.9] Lee: And Andrew and I were part of a team of foreground crew that were basically sticking things back
[229.74] Lee: together, trying to find lipo checkers and servo checkers and basically hunting down where the
[237.9] Frank: team had stored the lipos and all that sort of thing. Yeah, we're not going to get into detail,
[243.58] Lee: but the Germans did squirrel away an awful lot of the lipos that the English needed.
[249.1] Lee: It was, in fact, the whole thing could have been twice as long. But yeah,
[252.54] Lee: but that's what I thought you're going to talk about then. So what have you been up to this
[257.82] Frank: week? Because I know you've been flying, haven't you? Yeah, well, funnily enough, at the weekend,
[262.62] Frank: I was at Woodsprings show, which is where Steve from the show from the Battle of Britain team,
[271.66] Frank: he was the flight director, and Shannon was commentating for quite a bit of it.
[277.82] Frank: And there was a big group of the mostly the Brits, but also Christian came along,
[286.86] Frank: representing the Battle of Britain model squadron kind of thing, bringing all the same sort of stuff
[292.06] Frank: out with all the FPV gear and everything and displaying that at Woodsprings show.
[300.14] Lee: Is it worth while you're talking about a little bit about some of that technology on the planes,
[303.74] Lee: because some of the stuff that we did on that on that gig last year was pretty some of it was
[309.58] Lee: pretty standard stuff if you're an FPV racer. But for some of it was things I'd never seen before
[314.94] Frank: flying for 20 odd years. Yeah, so I mean, the biggest difference from what a lot of us know
[322.54] Frank: through normal FPV wings or FPV quads was the pan and tilt mechanism on the actual FPV camera.
[332.38] Frank: And so this was so basically two servos, one panning the camera left and right, and the other
[338.86] Frank: one tilting the camera up and down. And so you can look around. And this was also controlled by the
[348.86] Frank: through a terranus through the head tracking module in some fat sharks. So it was it was
[355.1] Frank: detecting you moving your head left and right and up and down. And it was translating that
[360.38] Frank: into moving the servos left and right and up and down to move the camera. So it was almost like
[365.02] Frank: you're looking around the cockpit in real time. And the FPV team guys had actually recreated the
[371.58] Lee: inside of these cockpits of the Spitfires, ME 109s, Heinkels, all these different kind of things.
[377.1] Lee: And they cut out all the plastics of just leaving the ribs on the actual canopy. So when you were
[382.86] Lee: looking around, it looked amazing. But most of the pilots who would come along had never flown.
[390.46] Lee: And the other thing that was done as well was there was this whole system on the planes,
[394.7] Lee: which was this infrared kind of gun system that you could fire using the auxiliary channel on
[401.58] Lee: the radio. And then there was a little smoke canister mounted underneath the plane. And when
[406.22] Lee: it sustained so many hits, it was all done via Wi Fi. It's very clever. When it sustained so many
[411.02] Lee: hits, then the smoke canister would pop and then that plane was considered damaged and out of the
[415.66] Lee: thing. And I've not seen it since. So you actually were playing with all of this this week, were you?
[420.78] Frank: So everyone pretty much stripped out the the infrared stuff, because I mean, it's great when
[427.18] Frank: you when we're on set. But after that, it's it's a bit of a struggle. But we were doing a lot with
[434.78] Frank: the FPV. So unfortunately, a lot of the head trackers seem to have also died in the past year.
[442.3] Frank: So a lot of them have been moved over to sliders and rotary dials and things onto anuses
[450.86] Frank: to rather than using the head tracker to control it. But the what they were doing for the smoke
[458.54] Frank: instead was James had built up some pyro control units that were on a switch instead.
[467.5] Frank: And so that it was all planned. Okay, now we fire the smoke, rather than being an actual combat
[475.74] Lee: battle. Oh, that's really exciting. So is this stuff that's being made more use accessible to
[482.62] Lee: the rest of us? Because I've got a friend that we would love to do that dog fighting thing with.
[487.34] Frank: Well, in terms of dog fighting, Christian has actually invited a load of us. I don't know if
[494.86] Frank: he managed to get this invitation to you. I did pass the email address on. So maybe maybe he's
[499.1] Frank: got it. Maybe you haven't. But over in Germany, not this week, but next week weekend, we're going
[508.14] Frank: out to his field near Frankfurt, where he's got some very early prototypes of a run of PCBs that
[516.86] Frank: are being made up right now, of essentially the same sort of thing that we were dealing with in
[522.7] Frank: terms of infrared guns triggering things going off as a as a dog fighting capability. And this
[530.86] Frank: is on Facebook as FPV combat, I think it's called. Okay. This guy has been building up some PCBs for
[540.22] Frank: this. And Christian has got some early samples. And we're going to be testing those out in a field
[545.58] Lee: in Germany next week weekend. That would be awesome. If yeah, give the guys a nudge, because
[551.98] Lee: I would love to keep up to date with that. Because even I've got friends who find quads,
[555.26] Lee: who would probably still quite like to do the whole combat shooting each other down with smoke
[559.5] Lee: thing. That's probably going to be illegal. But the other thing about this is it's got an OSD in
[567.74] Frank: there as well. So instead of just kind of judging by whether the smoke has gone off or not, and
[573.66] Frank: they've got, you see like, tracer bullets, almost tracer rounds in the OSD, and you see your
[581.66] Frank: ammunition go down, and you see your lives and it's, you know, comes up with messages saying you've
[585.9] Frank: been hit, and all that sort of thing. Oh, that sounds awesome. Are there any videos that we can
[590.62] Frank: have a look at? There is a few videos, but I think they are all on Facebook rather than YouTube,
[595.66] Frank: but I'll see if I can get something put across so you can see it. If we can find the videos,
[600.46] Lee: we'll put them in the show notes. How about that? Because I would love to do that. I love
[605.42] Lee: the idea of having an ammo counter. It's like the sentry guns in aliens. Yeah, so that's something
[613.34] Frank: looking forward to. But the other thing, I was invited along to Woodsprings to do some FPV
[621.58] Frank: live streaming. So yeah, so Steve and Sharon invited me along from Mini Air Show saying,
[630.7] Frank: oh, you've got this to work here. Can you come and do something here? And we can strap cameras
[637.26] Frank: to other planes and all sorts of things. Yeah, all right, I'll give it a go. And we were sort
[646.22] Frank: of checking things through beforehand, making sure it's all going to work. And there was loads
[651.98] Frank: of internet, all fine. And I got there and turned up on the Saturday. And it's like, there's no
[659.42] Frank: internet. Oh, dear. What it was, it was a lot more popular than I expected it to be. And I think
[667.66] Frank: with just the crowd of people that have just spectators being there already, I think that
[673.98] Frank: had pretty much saturated the local 4G network. So there wasn't a lot left for streaming,
[682.46] Frank: which was a bit of a challenge. But eventually got something workable.
[689.18] Lee: Are we going to have dog fighting at next year's Mini Air Show?
[692.7] Lee: I think we should. We've got to really, haven't we? Because that was probably the coolest thing
[697.1] Lee: I've seen the hobby for a long time. For those who haven't seen this show that I'm talking about,
[703.98] Lee: I'm not sure if it's still available on my 4 or whatever, the streaming thing. But there was
[709.1] Lee: probably 25, maybe 30 planes in the air at once. We had to have all the radios turned off. We had
[717.26] Lee: to have the walkie talkies turned off. We had to have all the mobiles on airplane mode. It got
[724.86] Lee: really exciting. But having all these planes whirling and whipping around, there were a couple
[729.1] Lee: of mid-air collisions. But most of them were genuine kind of dog fighting stuff. And we had
[733.58] Lee: a couple of guys who were actually flying with and using the FPV properly to line up and shoot
[738.7] Lee: other planes down. But most of it was done line of sight. But just sort of watching it from the side
[744.06] Lee: and watching the smoke popping and these planes leaving these big smoke trails as they kind of
[749.58] Frank: came into land, it was fantastic. Absolutely. It was magnificent, in fact.
[757.74] Lee: I think that's a very good word. I think magnificence needs to be at the
[763.42] Frank: mini air show next year, Bud. I think so. Well, a lot of the Battle of Britain guys
[769.58] Frank: coming together and doing this kind of team display, that's what they want to try and do,
[774.7] Frank: is go to more events and hone this down to a fine art of making this big display happen.
[782.22] Frank: So hopefully they can kind of build on that. That'll be really good.
[786.86] Frank: So I'd been kind of pulled along with my magic box that Jack built that takes all the FPV video
[795.74] Frank: feeds and squeezes it into a network cable so I can pull it out the other end into my laptop
[800.54] Frank: and do some streaming with it. And we were doing that so that there's all these people there
[808.14] Frank: who have got phones on them but have never seen goggles or anything. And there's only
[813.58] Frank: so many goggles amongst hundreds and hundreds of people. It wasn't reasonable to try and give
[820.46] Frank: everyone a ride along in some goggles. But we thought if we can take that stream and broadcast
[825.82] Frank: it out and allow people to see it on their phones, then it gives everyone a bit more of
[830.46] Frank: an insight into the FPV side of things and why we get so excited about it.
[835.42] Lee: Definitely lowers the barrier for entry. That's quite a smart way to do it. Like you say,
[838.62] Lee: assuming that the network can handle the bandwidth.
[841.26] Frank: Yes, this was a problem. Because I've also looked at trying to run it locally. You have
[849.58] Frank: a Wi-Fi and things that people could just join in a little local Wi-Fi bubble and get it directly.
[855.18] Frank: But then there's all sorts of technical issues with that. It's a really hard problem to solve.
[860.38] Frank: I think the only solution is to have lots more internet available.
[866.78] Lee: What's the next one? G5 or whatever it is?
[870.06] Frank: We'll get the 5G. Getting a bit more technical. 5G has a part of it called EMMMC or something,
[879.26] Frank: which has been built by the likes of BBC and that lot as a way to do this very thing for big events
[885.02] Frank: and stadiums. There's lots of video feeds and all that sort of thing. In some amount of time,
[891.82] Frank: we might be able to piggyback on that sort of stuff. But at the moment, it's really hard.
[895.98] Frank: As Cranky72 says in the chat, what about a large outside screen or a projector?
[901.74] Frank: Well, the problem is, it's generally quite bright, which means that you know...
[908.7] Frank: Well, a projector is completely out of the question. A normal screen out of the question,
[913.9] Frank: you need an outdoor daylight media screen. And they are really expensive. You're looking for
[923.66] Frank: for a nice one that people can see, the ones that you sort of expect to see at these FPV events.
[929.1] Frank: Those are going around a thousand pounds a day if you're lucky.
[934.14] Frank: So that's not really an option. And when everyone's walking around with a screen in their pocket,
[939.1] Frank: you just want to get onto those, but it's really hard.
[943.26] Lee: I like the idea. Well, it definitely sounds like you had a more successful week then playing with
[947.02] Lee: all this technology than I did, because my flying day was a complete, unmitigated disaster.
[952.3] Lee: I wanted to go to the fields, because you know the way it works when you're doing a video.
[958.38] Lee: Everyone wants to see the model fly at the end of the video,
[962.06] Lee: even though it ends up just being a little dot in the sky. But it proves it flies, right? And you
[968.22] Lee: can talk a little bit over the video, can't you, about what the characteristics of it.
[972.62] Lee: And there are two things I desperately need five footage of. One is the Hobbyking paramotor,
[977.58] Lee: which is the big parachute with a trolley underneath with a big fan on the back.
[985.9] Lee: And there's a knack to getting that flying. So I wanted to do the video showing the knack.
[990.22] Lee: And the other one was the maiden of the AR wing build that I'm trying to do.
[994.14] Lee: So the first one I tried was the paramotor. So while the wind wasn't too big, I thought,
[999.1] Lee: right, we need loads of footage of me running up and down a field like an idiot, desperately trying
[1003.18] Lee: to get this canopy up. But with a paramotor, there's only two controls, the two brakes that
[1008.94] Lee: control the trailing edges on the very outside back part of each of the canopy. And when you
[1016.46] Lee: pull one of them, it drops the back part of the canopy, and that causes drag, and that causes the
[1021.18] Lee: canopy to turn in that direction. Okay, pretty standard stuff. But the problem is, is that just
[1026.78] Lee: like a plane that isn't trimmed, if you try and hand launch a plane with the ailerons all out of
[1030.78] Lee: whack, then all it does is just immediately try to turn over on its back and nose into the ground.
[1036.78] Lee: So that so you do have to trim the canopy by doing test pulls, you know, you kind of you have
[1042.06] Lee: to kind of pull it over your head. And apologies, my videos craps out because I'm actually sat here
[1047.82] Lee: demonstrating that no one can pull. But you have to pull it over your head, right. And as it comes
[1053.9] Lee: up, it will it will kind of tip in one direction. And then you have to just use the trims on your
[1060.06] Lee: radio like you would with a normal plane until the canopy comes up nice and cleanly. And when
[1064.46] Lee: you've got it trimmed like that, then you're in, you know, a reasonable place to do it. So it was
[1070.14] Lee: on Tuesday, red hot, I foolishly decided to wear a black polo t shirt. So I was sweating like a pig,
[1078.7] Lee: we have me and my mate running down the field because he was, you know, doing third person view.
[1084.06] Lee: And we got all of the shots of this canopy going all over the place.
[1088.62] Lee: Until we eventually got it trimmed. And I'm thinking, right, all we need now is the footage
[1092.54] Lee: of me, you know, the majestic launch of it going over my head, 50% throttle, you know, just kind
[1097.9] Lee: of as it comes over my head, I just kind of let go and it'll sail into the sky. And we were just
[1102.3] Lee: setting up to do that bit and the wind came up. So so that was a complete disaster. So I've got
[1107.74] Lee: loads of footage of me running a bright red face, you know, completely wet through running around
[1114.3] Lee: in the sunshine, but actually didn't get what I wanted. So I thought, Oh, I know what we'll do,
[1118.86] Lee: we'll we'll launch the AR wing. And one of the things I'm doing at the moment, the series
[1123.82] Lee: started last week. I don't know if you saw it, Andrew, but it's the next R&D plane build that
[1129.34] Lee: I'm doing with a 900 millimeter wing, Maytec flight control, you know, crossfire this time,
[1135.42] Lee: things like that. So although the series has just started, if you're looking in the playlist,
[1140.7] Lee: you can actually find the majority of videos, there's about another three or four to make in
[1144.54] Lee: it. But I want to do the maiden, because it just proves that, you know, hey, technology works.
[1149.66] Lee: Because it does, but you need a video because people like to see it flying.
[1152.78] Lee: So I thought, Okay, it's windy, doesn't matter, we'll throw the wing up. Now, it's a problem
[1158.46] Lee: with the code on the flight controller in the bootloader that I put on there. And there'll be
[1165.02] Lee: a video out on Tuesday. So everyone that's listening to this that knows about this video
[1169.26] Lee: can pretend you haven't heard it before when the video comes back this week. But the way it works
[1173.26] Lee: is that the bootloader, when it first starts, it goes into bootloader mode, then it pauses there
[1178.94] Lee: for a moment, and then boots into R&D plane and, you know, initializes, and then the GPS locks,
[1184.06] Lee: and away you go. But there's a fault in the bootloader version that I flashed in the very
[1188.14] Lee: latest newest bootloader, which means that nine times out of 10, it won't make it out of bootloader,
[1193.9] Lee: it'll just sit there. So I was prepared to, you know, doing the plug it in counts 10, unplug it,
[1200.06] Lee: plug it in counts, you know, do keep going until I caught it. Anyway, first time I plugged it in,
[1206.14] Lee: booted beautifully GPS locked, went in and use the bits and pieces to start on for the crossfire to
[1213.66] Lee: set the VTX power. Everything's looking fantastic. I think it right here we go rock and roll my mate,
[1219.18] Lee: he was going to hand launch it for me has got the little GoPro on the brim of his cap.
[1223.98] Lee: Where we're set, right launch it into the wind because of course we've got the wind now because
[1227.34] Lee: that's what stops with the paramotor. So I thought, okay, I'll give it the beans, I'll put it,
[1231.74] Lee: put it in manual mode, and I'll catch it. So right, okay, mate, I'm ready, put the throttle up,
[1236.38] Lee: he threw it, it wasn't the best throw in the world, I obviously didn't have the throttle
[1240.94] Lee: hard enough. And it just kind of tipped over it did that thing that you know,
[1245.66] Lee: all the really bad when wing launches do it just kind of went straight into the grass.
[1249.74] Lee: So I broke the wing off. So it's like, okay, hot glue time. So, you know, five minutes later,
[1257.1] Lee: it was all back together. But of course, I unplugged it. While I did the hot glue,
[1261.42] Lee: I don't want it sat there with a VTX running, you know, getting the wall. And then could I get it
[1267.02] Lee: out of bootloader mode? 45 minutes, I played with this thing. So I think I just needed this,
[1273.1] Lee: I just need literally footage of it leaving his hand flying around cut to a bit of the FPV footage
[1278.3] Lee: from the goggles, you know, tickety boo tick next video about auto launch, I think would be the
[1283.66] Lee: next one. And I couldn't get that either. So I went all this way for my flying day and ended up
[1289.02] Lee: with but the only the only good thing that came out of the day was actually one of my the mate
[1293.9] Lee: who was I was with I'm teaching him to fly FPV on fixed wing. So of course, because we have nothing
[1300.62] Lee: else to do. We dragged the with the FPV wing out and kind of got in flying on that and it was a real
[1308.06] Lee: breakthrough because up till now, every time I go, I do three or four batteries with him for FPV.
[1313.82] Lee: And we're doing it on a buddy box system. And you know, it's it's it's actually working really well.
[1318.62] Lee: But but this time, we actually had him flying from specific points to specific point around
[1325.02] Lee: the field. So before I just got him up to 200 300 feet and just let him fly around, you know,
[1330.3] Lee: had my finger over the button to take control if something nasty happened. And this time I was
[1335.82] Lee: actually okay, so you fly to this point and fly to this point. And it was lovely at the end,
[1340.06] Lee: because every time he does this, when we go into it is is a bit lackluster about the whole
[1345.66] Lee: experience because, you know, he's been a line of sight plane flyer for well, a very long time,
[1349.74] Lee: you know, back in glow engine days. And every time he finishes, he's more excited. And I think
[1357.1] Lee: this time the penny dropped about how cool FPV and fixed wing is. So so yeah, it was great. So
[1363.66] Lee: the only thing that's panicking him at the moment is landing FPV. So but the problem is to you know
[1370.3] Lee: the way it works, right? If you're coming in FPV with a smaller plane, what looks like a reasonable
[1375.1] Lee: distance out from the field, you pull your goggles down and then try and find the plane line of sight
[1380.7] Lee: and you can't see it or your spotters topping on the shoulder going it's there it's over the tree
[1384.94] Lee: and the 27 trees. No, no, not that tree. No, you need to go left when he means right. So
[1391.5] Lee: so that's the next thing is is is crashing. In fact, actually, there's a couple of people in the
[1396.86] Lee: chat that so I can say a lot of people like Fraser and people like James, who I've done stuff with
[1402.86] Lee: recently and talked about the move from multirotors to flying fixed wing. And there seems to be the
[1411.02] Lee: same five or six things that catch people out all the time, particularly if you have a background
[1416.62] Lee: in multirotors. And I don't know whether it's worthwhile maybe talking those kind of
[1422.54] Lee: kind of four or five golden rules I go through. If anyone's pulsing a throttle doesn't get you
[1427.18] Lee: over the tree. Exactly. Exactly. Throttle does not many times. Yeah, throttle does not equal
[1435.42] Lee: height in a fixed wing. It just means you hit the thing harder. There's a couple of things. Yeah,
[1440.62] Lee: I mean, I mean, the first one, let's talk about that then. I mean, the most common two mistakes
[1447.1] Lee: I see are multirotor pilots. When they're going down the field in a multirotor, and they realize
[1452.94] Lee: that there may be a little lower than they thought, and the obstacle in front of them,
[1455.98] Lee: it you know, they're going to hit it, you can just blip the throttle and you rise into the
[1459.34] Lee: air above it and you clear it. And that is a muscle memory that's really dangerous in a fixed
[1465.66] Lee: wing because it just, that's how it speeds you up. The other thing that multirotor pilots I find
[1470.62] Lee: really struggle with fixed wing is as multirotor pilots, we all get used to using the rudder to
[1475.34] Lee: change direction. And hard use of the rudder in a fixed wing, particularly if it is a wing wing,
[1485.66] Lee: it's not as badly that, but in a normal plane, something like a Bixler or an AXM floater,
[1489.74] Lee: something like that, if you slam the rudder over, you get a really violent reaction. So the way I
[1495.58] Lee: do it, and in fact, you know, one of the guys in the chat was talking to about a couple of weeks ago,
[1500.86] Lee: with a mode to radio, I normally say once the plane's flying, you know, put the throttle at
[1504.86] Lee: 50% and then take your thumb off that stick and just use the aileron to turn and the elevator
[1510.38] Lee: to change the height. And that will usually get you, you know, your first half a dozen flights
[1518.06] Lee: without too many problems. I mean, the other the other problems are multirotor pilots want to fly
[1522.78] Lee: really low in the early days. Yeah. So the three mistakes high rule, although it's great in
[1529.34] Lee: principle, you kind of you know, you do a couple of and that's that's the thing as well. And if it's
[1534.78] Lee: flying line of sight, the whole nose in thing when when the plane is flying or wings flying
[1539.02] Lee: towards you and the aileron first, if you have a momentary brain fart as it's doing that, then
[1547.34] Lee: if you're not high enough, you make the correction you think you need, it actually
[1550.86] Lee: exacerbates the problem. Before you know it, the plane's upside down heading into the ground,
[1555.1] Lee: which means that you immediately put the throttle because that's going to give you more height. And
[1558.94] Lee: that just runs into the floor even faster. But so there's only about four or five things I tend to
[1564.38] Lee: do with with pilots like that. I think I might make a video on it actually, just to kind of help
[1570.14] Lee: people. I mean, I've done a couple of videos already. But it's amazing how many pilots I have
[1574.14] Lee: the conversation with, who then go and then crash and come back and can tell me exactly which one of
[1580.62] Frank: those pieces of advice they completely ignored. Well, yeah, I mean, for me, I I'm pretty sure
[1587.82] Frank: I've worked out all the brain farts of getting left right and right is left now after 14 years.
[1597.42] Frank: But it's the the other part is the orientation and the brain fart of is that is that the it going
[1606.62] Frank: is that the with the left wing up and it's going from right to left or is that the is it going the
[1613.66] Frank: other way that it could be either way when it's just a silhouette and you don't know which way
[1618.22] Frank: it's going. Am I going away from myself? Or am I going towards myself? You just have to kind of
[1624.86] Lee: try something and see what you expect. Exactly. You have to use the the the wing waggle as it's
[1631.1] Lee: known in our circle and see whether or not the wing moves in the same direction of the stick,
[1636.06] Lee: which probably means it's flying away from you. If it moves in the other direction,
[1639.58] Lee: then it probably means it's coming towards you and you probably need to get some height.
[1643.18] Lee: But it's it's it's a really, really interesting part of the hobby because some of the guys that
[1648.94] Lee: I talked to are coming into the hobby brand new and have never flown before. So you're talking to
[1654.14] Lee: the really basic stuff about the radio and things like that and how you set that up. Because even
[1658.62] Lee: things like, for example, on the radio with the fixed wing, you add things like exponential
[1664.46] Lee: and travel. Right. And as quad pilots, we don't do that because Betaflight does that for us. Right.
[1670.94] Lee: And the the reaction time of a fixed wing seemed the wing seems to be flying through molasses
[1678.14] Lee: because with a multirotor, you know, when we've got it tuned properly, this thing will flip five
[1682.62] Lee: or six times a second. Right. And it'll do a hard stop and Betaflight will work really hard to,
[1688.78] Lee: you know, do that really hard crisp stop when we're when we're doing aerobatics and an acro
[1695.26] Lee: with a plane. We're just relying on good old fashioned physics and air moving over bits of
[1699.58] Lee: balsa wood or bits of foam to kind of do it. And I know for a lot of lots of pilots, particularly
[1704.46] Lee: quad ones, it feels really slow to react. So you almost have to anticipate things a little bit more
[1711.18] Lee: in a slightly different way with a plane. I think that catches a few new pilots out, too.
[1715.74] Frank: I also I mean, I have a tendency to just have a lot of throttle on a plane just because I know
[1723.58] Frank: it's not going to fall out of the sky then. And you know that planes can actually fly without
[1730.62] Frank: the engine on, right? I know. I know. It's particularly when it's something that looks
[1737.82] Frank: quite slow as it's flying along. And then I'm just worried. Am I going to stall? When is it
[1742.78] Frank: going to stall? What's it going to do when it stalls? And and I just tend to have a throttle
[1748.06] Frank: up on high a lot of the time. I was very grateful on Saturday. Yick gave me a go on his
[1757.74] Frank: he's got a Texan T6. He even swapped over a radio to be in mode two and was giving me a
[1766.62] Frank: go on that. And so I got to fly there. And he was like, no, bring the throttle back,
[1772.38] Frank: bring it back, bring it back. I was like, this is going to fall that sky. It's going to stop
[1776.14] Frank: flying at some point. Wings stop working when they go too slow. But he sort of was talking me
[1783.02] Frank: through it as it was kind of doing whatever. And that ended up being quite fun. And I got used to
[1790.14] Frank: the model and I got relaxed into it. And then I got a very painful, well, not painful reminder,
[1797.26] Frank: I got a very strong reminder that I wasn't just on my own in a field as I might usually be.
[1804.54] Frank: Oh, you know, there's not just a few of us here. There's a lot of people here.
[1809.34] Frank: And is all of a sudden, I think it was pretty much the entirety of the MWM Warbirds team
[1815.02] Frank: just turned up and threw things into the air. Everything from, you know, Hawks, EDFs,
[1823.58] Frank: EF extras that have obviously had different motors and batteries put in. And everything that just the
[1829.9] Frank: sky just explodes with loud things coming in front of me very loud. And it was just okay.
[1839.18] Frank: And I need to land at some point now. And I don't know when I'm going to be able to do that,
[1843.26] Frank: because it's just going to end up with a cloud of foam if I do that now. Yeah, it's just an
[1849.66] Frank: interesting experience to be flying with that many people line of sight, which you can't really do
[1856.62] Frank: FPV because you only really get six, maybe eight. I mean, if you're a very well organized race,
[1863.42] Frank: you can get 16. But you can do that for fun. Well, while we're on that subject, actually,
[1869.1] Lee: this is something that I was talking about somebody in the business the other day in that
[1874.14] Lee: the reason that we can in the UK, there's only six, seven channels that we can use. I don't
[1880.06] Lee: remember, there was a video that I did a while ago with Greg from menace. And he worked out all
[1885.9] Lee: the harmonics of all the different channels that was legally available to us in the UK and outside
[1890.06] Lee: the UK, and gave recommendations about what chat what the best channels were for having
[1897.02] Lee: two, three, four, five, six and up to seven pilots. And interestingly, it wasn't raceband,
[1902.14] Lee: which I thought was quite interesting. But but the actual frequencies that we have available to us
[1907.66] Lee: as part of the hobby is pretty broad. And if we if we are rather than working with these inherited
[1914.78] Lee: bands that we have, you know, the fat shark band, we still use quite a lot, you know, there's the
[1920.78] Lee: raceband, and then there's the others, maybe used to be called things like boss cam. Do you
[1925.98] Frank: remember that? Yeah, they're generally just referred to as the letters now. Yeah, A, B, E, F,
[1932.86] Lee: sometimes maybe D and R. And if you actually look at those frequencies, there is a much better way
[1939.42] Lee: for for us to space the channels out so that the harmonics from the individual VTX transmissions
[1945.98] Lee: don't interfere with each with each other. And we could get a little bit more out of the FP the
[1950.7] Lee: very limited FPV 5.8 gig band that we have. So I'm hoping, you know, here first that we will have
[1959.42] Lee: some kind of recommendation because if someone like fat shark or immersion, because a lot of the
[1964.94] Lee: transmitters that I'm getting in at the moment have the ability to set discrete frequencies,
[1969.9] Lee: you know, so rather than you have to go with the preset ones, you can you can set it up to, you
[1976.3] Lee: know, 5.762 or whatever, you know, gigahertz that you want. And also on a lot some of the new
[1982.38] Lee: receivers that I'm getting in now some of the newer goggles also has the ability to kind of
[1987.1] Lee: give you that feature as well. Now, it used to be that doing that on things like the immersion kit
[1991.18] Lee: needed the super duper wand, you know, the super duper set up stuff. But I'm just I'm I'm really
[1998.22] Lee: interested in being able to do that because having my my the most fun I have FPV is chasing my
[2004.78] Lee: mates playing around the sky. Yeah, right. It would be awesome if there was three or four of us,
[2010.38] Lee: maybe, you know, you, me, Jack, couple of mates, whatever, chasing each other around the sky.
[2015.58] Lee: And who knows, maybe having a spot or two and using that gun system that you're talking about,
[2020.14] Lee: that just sounds like the most fun radio control flying day ever. So I'm hoping we can get some
[2027.98] Lee: ideas for this FPV stuff. So keep your fingers crossed we can we can work something out. But
[2032.14] Frank: that's on the weekends, I'd forgotten there's there's all this stuff that you need to learn
[2038.54] Frank: with FPV that a lot of people don't know. And so it was all this like, you know, all these guys who
[2047.18] Frank: haven't used FPV much and when they have done it, it's either been with basically you controlling
[2055.58] Frank: everything, or they've been on their own, or, you know, with a spotter, but not flying loads of FPV
[2061.5] Frank: at the same time. So to have all these people turning up and being like, Okay, so we need,
[2066.14] Frank: you know, I'm going to we need to be on these channels. And why we're all embraced band is
[2071.34] Frank: fine. Yeah, doesn't work that way. And then, and then, you know, it's all right, it'll be easy,
[2080.46] Frank: we'll just change the channels, it'll be fine. And then you get to it. And of course, it's buried in
[2085.02] Lee: this fixed wing model. There's one button that you have to press for three seconds to get into.
[2091.1] Frank: Yeah, it's not even that it is as drone racer says in the chat is dip switches.
[2097.26] Frank: And it's, and you look at these transmissions and go, I don't think that's entirely in compliance
[2105.26] Frank: with 25 milliwatts judging by the sticker. But I'm sure that's a mistake on the part of
[2109.98] Lee: Yeah, there's the CE sticker must have fallen off because it got warm, that'll be what it is.
[2115.58] Frank: Must be a model number and not not a milliwatt hour. Yeah. But, and then, oh, okay, so that's
[2124.06] Frank: running on that much. So that's going to swamp everything. And so there's all these sorts of
[2129.82] Frank: things is like, hadn't thought about these problems. Surely it can't be that difficult,
[2135.26] Lee: right? We've got, you know, in here in the EU, we've got this wonderful LBT system on the on
[2140.46] Lee: the FR sky transmitters, right? So they listen before they start transmitting, which actually,
[2145.26] Lee: I think it's a really good idea for FPV. So if you're flying and somebody walks up and has
[2149.82] Lee: accidentally left their VTX on the same channel that you've got, and they plug the battery in and
[2154.14] Lee: completely stomp all over you, it would actually be quite nice if the VTX when it powered up,
[2159.82] Lee: actually had some receiving equipment that it could kind of just just listen briefly
[2164.22] Lee: to that channel and just go, no one else is using this, right? And if it and if it didn't,
[2168.86] Lee: then it would it could power up. And I'm just conscious we go for 36 minutes and we haven't
[2173.9] Frank: mentioned the competition. Absolutely. So Jack will be very unhappy if I don't mention the
[2179.66] Frank: competition. So we we are doing a competition for our four year anniversary coming up this August.
[2188.62] Frank: So from episode 200, we announced this and it's been carrying on.
[2194.54] Frank: If anyone was so so drone his life has donated a bunch of goodies, and Jack's looking after them,
[2202.62] Frank: and usually at this point in the show, he'd be waving them about. So you just have to kind of
[2205.98] Frank: imagine that I've got some goodies from drone his life at the moment. And we are going to be
[2212.78] Frank: awarding them to whoever sends us the well, if you send in a memory of LDO through timestamps
[2222.38] Frank: or snippets or edits or any other collection of your favorite moments from LDO over the past four
[2227.9] Frank: years, we're going to watch them the week before our 208th episode. And we're going to pick one.
[2236.7] Frank: And we're going to announce the winner on a two hundred and eighth episode, a four year episode.
[2242.3] Frank: And and they will get some goodies. So we haven't had a huge number of entries. So if you do send
[2249.18] Frank: something in, as I say, either a timestamp of a podcast or a YouTube video or an edit that you
[2257.82] Frank: put together, anything like that, you've got a fairly good chance of winning some goodies at the
[2262.78] Frank: moment. So you can send them in to let's join out at gmail.com or you can send them to our Facebook
[2270.14] Frank: page at Facebook.com forward slash let's join out or I'm sure you'll find a way somehow. But those
[2277.58] Lee: two should be good enough, I think. Fantastic. Thanks, Andrew. And welcome, Tony.
[2283.34] Tony: Oh, sure. I've made it. Twenty minutes left. Oh, my God. That was a long drive. I'm so tired,
[2290.38] Tony: but Joker Visions probably more tired. I think he's going to he's just going home. He lives down
[2295.1] Tony: a road and I'm going to send him the link to come on and see if he can be on for 10 minutes in the
[2301.34] Tony: chat. No, I'm not getting topless tonight, I'm afraid. I'm tired for that. Yeah, that's that's
[2308.3] Lee: only when Jack's on the podcast, I think, isn't it? Totally. It's a very pretty much. I just try to
[2312.7] Tony: keep him amused. You know, Tony, you've been doing something pretty impressive. Are you allowed to
[2318.14] Tony: talk about any of that? Oh, yeah. Yeah. When drift car chasing today. Rocking them
[2325.42] Tony: quite far away. You know, it got shut down last year, didn't it? Rocking them.
[2330.22] Lee: So is this what all the all the kind of like the good quadcopter pilots are doing? Because every
[2336.06] Lee: time I look at it these days, you've got somebody chasing a drift car. So is this how did you get
[2340.22] Tony: this gig? Danny Joker Vision, who may come in on the chat in a minute. If I send him a link, he's
[2346.14] Tony: good. He he knows some people who used to do it because I think he was a photographer for
[2355.34] Tony: some car magazines back in the day. And I think that's how he got the gig. And then we went out
[2360.78] Tony: this morning and we got there and they're like, they're not sure you can fly, you know. And we
[2365.9] Tony: were like, oh, my God, we just drove three hours. Please don't say that. But showed them our
[2371.58] Tony: certificates of insurance and things like that. And they're like, oh, okay. So we were all right
[2378.86] Tony: after that. And I told them that I'm a pro. So it's fun to get paid for something. You're a pro,
[2386.38] Lee: right? Yeah, that's true. Yeah, that's true. That's yeah, there's other interpretations,
[2392.14] Tony: but we'll move on from that. Yeah, you had a good day, mate. Yeah. Yeah, it was fantastic. I'm so
[2398.38] Tony: tired, but really good. We drove through so much rain on the way out. We were like, no, please.
[2405.26] Tony: Got there and it was it was nice and dry up there. Actually, it was good. So when will we see that
[2411.5] Tony: footage? Maybe next week at some point. I've got tomorrow work Friday night, early night, because
[2421.66] Tony: we're going to the weekend if it doesn't rain hard, which is basically lower guys in a field,
[2430.22] Tony: massive fire. You're coming, aren't you, Frank? I am coming to me. Big fire drones, planes, guns.
[2438.94] Tony: What can go wrong?
[2444.62] Tony: Yeah, no, today was really, really good fun, though. Yeah, but they had a wet track today.
[2450.86] Tony: So they run dry tracks and wet tracks depending on if there's a number of them. It's not whether
[2457.58] Tony: it's depending on well, it is doing in weather, but noise. So they wet the track. So it's not
[2465.26] Tony: permanently for eight hours. Oh, yes, they do that. So when I was getting low and chasing cars,
[2475.82] Tony: like real low, I was getting water on my lens and things like that. But I think we've got enough
[2482.78] Tony: footage to have some fun. But yeah, it'll be next week, I should think.
[2490.78] Lee: Well, if you have any of those gigs north of Watford and you need a bag man,
[2494.22] Tony: make give me a call. It was north. Where was it? Well, we're rocking them. Where was that?
[2499.82] Tony: It was up past where N.J. lives. I went through N.J.'s hometown.
[2505.9] Tony: Water these plants. Bedfordshire, I think.
[2509.66] Tony: Bedfordshire, lovely. A bit further on than that. I've just sent Joker the link, so hopefully he
[2515.34] Tony: might come on. But yeah, it was good fun. But we're going up there to do a dry day. So we chased them
[2520.86] Tony: when it's dry. So we're having more tire smoke and all that schmillarky.
[2526.86] Lee: Yeah. Let's blow out on the lenses. There's a couple of questions I've just noticed
[2531.58] Lee: people asking. So I'm keen that we cover these. One of them was from Dave. Dave, you're asking,
[2538.38] Lee: IRC is not the best or legal in the UK. IRC, one of the channels on what we call Fat Shark or IRC,
[2549.58] Lee: or Band E or Band F, whichever you want to choose. One of them is not legal in the UK. It's outside
[2555.5] Lee: the limit, but actually it doesn't provide bad separation. So it's not illegal in the UK. There
[2562.46] Lee: are a couple of bands that aren't. I do have a video in it. If I remember, we'll put the link
[2568.22] Lee: in the show notes that talk about what the legal things are. It's part of the FPV antenna lab
[2574.38] Lee: series. And Jack, who's obviously listening, so hello, Jack. I hope you're feeling better, buddy,
[2580.38] Lee: was asking, have I done the Fat Shark DVR update? The answer is yes, I did a video on it, so I had
[2586.38] Lee: to. It has helped. The DVR update is only for when you have an issue where maybe you're trying to
[2594.14] Lee: synchronize FPV footage recorded in the goggles with maybe a GoPro or something on the actual
[2601.1] Lee: model itself. You'll sometimes find that the video is a slightly shorter video from the DVR than from
[2608.94] Lee: the GoPro. And that's because the original firmware in the goggles, if there was something
[2614.38] Lee: wrong with the frame of the video, it would just kind of bin the entire frame and just kind of not
[2619.66] Lee: bother. So that meant the frame was slightly concatenated and it was kind of crushed down.
[2625.34] Lee: So that meant trying to get it exactly synced was a real pain in the butt. What the firmware update
[2632.06] Lee: does, and check the read mes because it's not suitable for all Fat Shark goggles. So double,
[2637.42] Lee: double check. You put it on the SD card, you update it, and all it really does is improves
[2642.14] Lee: the algorithm for things like rapid fire, where you could also with rapid fire get some weird
[2649.5] Lee: effects in the DVR as well because the way it works, it kind of fixes all that stuff.
[2654.22] Lee: There is a downside though, and the downside is that the auto recording, which I actually really
[2659.9] Lee: like on the goggles, because I always forget to hit the button. Hey, all right, Danny.
[2665.98] Lee: And there he is. He's made it. I always forget to hit the button. That's disabled by default,
[2673.1] Lee: because it doesn't automatically switch between NTSC and PAL. It has to kind of see the video feed
[2678.86] Lee: before you hit the button. So the answer is that was a very long way of saying yes. But if you're
[2683.42] Lee: thinking of doing it, triple read the read mes so that nothing nasty happens. Make sure you got a
[2688.3] Lee: full battery and your goggles. You don't want it crapping out before it's finished the update.
[2692.3] Tony: It doesn't take too long. Sweet. How are you feeling after driving six hours, Danny?
[2700.78] Danny (Joker): Shattered. Absolutely shattered. It was a long way to go, but worth it, wasn't it?
[2707.1] Danny (Joker): Oh, it was great fun. And they've invited us back. Everyone was asking if they had to pay
[2711.42] Lee: for the footage. We should have said yes. Yeah, I'll burn you with DVD. It'll only be 15 quid.
[2723.42] Tony: Taking pictures for people. But we've just, yeah, we did anything. I don't think you did.
[2732.14] Frank: Enough to get your PFCOs until July 2020. Yeah, it's not worth getting them now, is it?
[2738.54] Frank: I don't think so. Really? Be honest, unless you're desperately going to do something in the next year
[2744.06] Frank: that's going to make you loads of money, then probably not. I've got one gig coming up, but
[2748.78] Tony: it's got to be free. Danny, you've got the loudest keyboard on the planet. I know. Do not type anymore.
[2757.82] Tony: Okay, I'll hand it back to him. It's mechanical, that's right.
[2762.3] Tony: Just say hello in the chat or whatever. People will say hello to you.
[2767.5] Danny (Joker): He was asking about the X-Class and it was just a five-inch and we were still had to fly.
[2771.9] Lee: Because we technically wasn't allowed to fly. No, like letters. Sometimes five inches is enough.
[2780.38] Lee: That's what she said. There we go. There's the one per list. Jack's hearing spirit,
[2786.62] Tony: even if he isn't here. That was Jack took over my body. Could you tell?
[2790.3] Lee: No, you can't have been Jack because your clothes are still on.
[2796.46] Lee: I tell you, there is one thing I do want to talk about while we're all together on this,
[2799.98] Lee: and it's a subject that's a bit close to my heart, and that is, when I use a bit of technology,
[2806.46] Lee: so if there's something like Betaflight or iNav or RDPilot or some of the cool little telemetry
[2811.98] Lee: gizmos and things you can put on your radio, you can get a lot of this stuff from GitHub now.
[2816.3] Lee: A lot of these pages that we go to have this little donate and support the project, and 99.9%
[2824.14] Lee: of us completely ignore that, download it, put it, try it, it works, and then hey, we're at the field.
[2830.54] Lee: It was just a very quick kind of just nudge to everybody in the hobby. If you are using
[2836.22] Lee: particularly software that somebody's writing and not getting paid for, they're doing it for
[2839.66] Lee: the love of the hobby, and you download it and you use it and you get enjoyment out of it,
[2844.54] Lee: kick those developers back a couple of bucks, it makes a massive, massive, I know speaking to the
[2849.98] Lee: iNav team, it makes all the difference in the world to them, and it also just lets them know
[2854.7] Lee: that people are actually appreciating what they do, and for those projects that don't get supported,
[2860.3] Lee: they wither and die on the vine, so things like the OpenPilot project back in the day and stuff
[2864.86] Lee: like that, so it was just a just a general reminder, if you're using technology and you've
[2868.94] Lee: downloaded it for free and it works and they have a way for you to give them a couple of bucks,
[2873.18] Lee: go and find out what that is and do Patreon or do PayPal or whatever it is just to support
[2878.38] Tony: and keep the stuff going in the hobby. That's a really good idea, I've never even
[2882.94] Lee: thought about doing anything like that. That's the problem mate, and to be fair,
[2887.74] Lee: I have to give myself a kick in the ass a couple of months everywhere, because I'll find new tech
[2892.38] Lee: and I'll download it, somebody will mention something to me, I'll get it, I'll use it and
[2895.58] Lee: think, oh that's amazing, you know, that's really good, and then it'll be a couple of
[2901.34] Lee: weeks later and I'll think, oh my god, I'm still using it, I'm still loving it,
[2904.38] Lee: like Lua scripts and things for the Toronto's radio and stuff like that, it's great,
[2908.62] Lee: and for the sake of a couple of bucks, it might, you know, it's not even a cup of coffee for me,
[2912.86] Lee: but at least for the guy who receives it, it shows him that somebody's kind of appreciated
[2917.66] Tony: the time that he or she takes. That is a good point, I might do what you just said to be honest,
[2923.1] Tony: Dave Storey in the chat says, you guys are going to get a re-bike from the editor this week,
[2928.3] Lee: because it's such a clean chat. I think we might just need to have the last 15 minutes,
[2935.02] Lee: just completely filthy, really, and then at least he was going to win. I can't be filthy without the
[2940.46] Tony: Yeti here, it's just weird, he just changes you, doesn't he? You hang around with him and he rubs
[2946.38] Tony: off on you a little. Oh, I nearly swore then. There's one, there's one, rubs off on you or
[2953.1] Tony: rubs up against you. Spends where you are and how dark it is and see if he can get away with it.
[2963.18] Lee: So what's everyone's latest projects, what they're working on? How's the X-Class flying,
[2967.5] Danny (Joker): mate? Are you doing anything with that? My one, it's getting there, it's slowly,
[2973.66] Danny (Joker): slowly getting there. Looking at starting maybe night-time displays with them.
[2983.1] Danny (Joker): Pyrotechnics or just lights? Lights and pyrotechnics maybe, maybe some fireworks. I have
[2990.62] Danny (Joker): got the superstar-like cat fox here to go on. Tell us a story about you trying to fly with that on.
[2998.54] Lee: Can you just take one step back, Danny? What is that? Because you're talking a language that I
[3006.3] Lee: have not involved in yet. Is that what a camera FPV, what's it in it? A foxy FPV camera. Right,
[3012.38] Danny (Joker): okay. You can see it like 0.0001 lux, so it's like new on darkness. It's very good in the dark,
[3021.02] Danny (Joker): very good. I stupidly set it to 16 by 9, couldn't see the bottom of the screen and I couldn't land
[3028.38] Tony: it. I couldn't fly it, could you? Something's happened overnight, you've changed the pins,
[3033.98] Tony: what's happened? I think it's because you stretch your screen and you're supposed to have it
[3041.02] Tony: four by three and you swap the camera and it could fly again. It must be that, so hopefully
[3048.06] Tony: you'll sort that out next time you fly because I'm actually interested in seeing how dark you
[3052.7] Tony: can fly with that. Menace RC hopefully will be making us some big lights for the arms.
[3062.78] Tony: I've gave him the measurements but you know what I'm like, probably be too big or too small.
[3070.46] Tony: Yeah, hopefully Menace is going to make us some nice lights for the next class.
[3076.06] Lee: Yeah, those cob lights are very bright that those guys do and I turned them on indoors
[3082.7] Lee: and yeah, I couldn't see anything for about a week. I put them on five inch and they're really
[3088.46] Lee: good. They're really good. They're really good. I did a review of the ZOHD orbit, it has the
[3095.18] Lee: LEDs in the wings, it's a flying wing thing and I do like flying at dusk with lights on. It just
[3100.7] Frank: looks so cool. Yeah, I really wanted one on Saturday, something like that because I had my
[3105.82] Frank: radian as well that I hadn't flown at that point but it was just getting too dark and I was like
[3111.18] Frank: ah, there's lights on this, I can fly. Yeah, sorry we didn't come Frank. Oh well, I think
[3121.34] Frank: from the reaction I had to FPV and wearing a t-shirt with a quad on, I think it may have been
[3128.46] Danny (Joker): the best. Well, I did keep asking in WM, is there any quad related stuff and nobody got back to me
[3136.14] Tony: as I was like, no, we can't do something else. Well, maybe we can turn it around like we did at
[3142.94] Tony: Northwestern Wings and Wheels because they loved it down there. There's quite a lot of, I'm just
[3149.9] Lee: conscious, we've only got probably about six to seven minutes left and there's lots of questions
[3153.98] Lee: coming at the moment directed towards Andrew talking about the legislation that's coming in.
[3161.02] Lee: In a way, it's kind of good that we've only got six to seven minutes because the last time Andy and
[3164.46] Lee: I had a chat about this. After 45 minutes, Andrew was just warming up. So, Andrew, are you happy to
[3174.38] Lee: give us the very top level bullet points of where we are? Just for those interested, Andrew and I
[3181.02] Lee: did a much longer interview on this, it's available on the Painless 360 YouTube channel, shameless plug,
[3186.3] Lee: apologies for that in advance. We're also going to be doing another one probably September time,
[3190.14] Lee: I think we said, mate, didn't we? An update, which will have more detail, but are you happy
[3195.1] Frank: to do the high level highlights in four minutes? I can do my best. Action. Don't panic. Registration
[3208.86] Frank: is coming in November. It's registering pilots, it's not registering quads, but it's for
[3215.42] Frank: 250 grams plus come November, but come July 2020, it is applying to everything with a camera
[3224.7] Frank: and then there's lots of other rules as well of when you need particular types because there's
[3229.18] Frank: going to be from July 2020, there's going to be two types of registering, so there's going to be
[3233.42] Frank: a normal registration, but there's also going to be certificate of competency, which you're going
[3238.22] Frank: to have to get from somewhere, but then it works out where yet and there's all sorts of other rules
[3242.86] Lee: about. So the summary, if I can just jump in for a second, the bottom line is at the moment,
[3253.1] Lee: there's still loads of things to be decided, lots of things being proposed. My humble opinion is
[3258.54] Lee: they're probably proposing an overly oppressive set of rules so that when we pair them back to a
[3264.7] Lee: much lesser set of rules, we'll feel like we've had a win, which is probably where they want us
[3267.98] Lee: to be anyway. That's just how these things work. Not that cynical at all about this entire process.
[3273.98] Lee: Not at all. So don't panic just about it yet. There are different classes that have been
[3279.58] Lee: proposed based on weight, speed, functionality of the vehicle, which the idea is it will encompass
[3285.42] Lee: everything. But interestingly, there are potential loopholes around if the craft is homebuilt versus
[3292.7] Lee: purchased. What I imagine the hobby will do is we'll all figure out what the loopholes are
[3301.02] Frank: and then everyone will build for the loopholes. At the moment, the two classes that we're going
[3308.62] Frank: to exist in at the moment is either so small and so slow that we're probably not going to want to
[3314.94] Frank: fly outside, basically tiny whoops, or it's going to have to be so far away from everything that
[3322.62] Frank: you're never going to find anywhere to fly it. Those are currently the two situations come July
[3327.18] Frank: 2020, unless between now and then we find a lot more loopholes or find a lot more spaces to fly
[3334.86] Frank: that are ridiculously far away from anything else. But we'll see. Yeah. You say don't panic,
[3343.26] Lee: but I've already started to panic. I think it's difficult to, Tony, with the lack of information
[3349.02] Lee: that we have and lack of certainty, I think that is as disconcerting as anything else. I know for
[3355.34] Lee: me, looking at all the quads and all the planes and wings and all the stuff that I've got, you're
[3361.58] Lee: kind of thinking of what of this am I going to be able to fly without taking a 27-week exam?
[3368.06] Lee: But I think for us, I think we just have to shake out the good news is, I guess, from those
[3376.14] Lee: people representing the hobby at government level, is that talking to Andrew last time, and Andrew,
[3380.62] Lee: please chime in as this has changed, but all these individual outfits that were talking to
[3385.26] Lee: the government separately and trying to defend their own corner of the hobby all seem to be
[3391.18] Lee: working together now, finally, which I'm taking as a good sign because it did feel to me a little
[3396.62] Lee: bit like the fixed-wing fliers were trying to throw the drone guys under the bus.
[3401.82] Lee: And there was a lot of that, oh, it's not us, it's these guys kind of activity going on. And now,
[3405.98] Lee: because it's going to bite them on the butt as well, those people representing that side of the
[3410.14] Lee: hobby are suddenly wanting to throw their weight behind the rational arguments. So I'm hoping that
[3415.9] Lee: that more considered approach is going to bear fruit. But this is the government we're talking
[3420.86] Tony: about. So who knows? I know who knows. I like Diddy Falls reply, I'm going to pay you painting
[3427.74] Tony: Jolly Roger on my flying toys. Brilliant. I might do that as well. Maybe we should all just
[3434.62] Lee: look together and just buy an island off Scotland somewhere and just all go there to fly.
[3439.9] Tony: Well, I was thinking that there'd be FPV holidays now, wouldn't there? Someone doing FPV holidays to
[3447.18] Tony: places like Tenerife, where you can fly up in the volcanoes without...
[3452.3] Lee: FPV cruises, we can park in the other way. We're nowhere near anything then.
[3458.22] Lee: Most of the legislation...
[3464.86] Lee: Andrew, do you want to take it? It seems to be the people around, right?
[3470.14] Frank: Yeah, so you've got the issue of there being people, but even if you go at six o'clock in
[3475.42] Frank: the morning when there's probably not that many people on the beach, you've got the issue of to
[3481.26] Tony: take off, you need to have land owner's permission. I thought Don Robinson said we're beaches are...
[3490.22] Tony: Exhibit from...
[3491.18] Tony: Yeah, they can't, they can't.
[3493.66] Frank: Well, it depends who owns it. Some beaches are fine, some beaches are owned by people.
[3499.9] Tony: Can I stand on the beach and take off from my hand?
[3503.58] Frank: That's the same thing.
[3505.42] Tony: Is it? Is it not?
[3508.06] Tony: Maybe we just don't...
[3508.78] Tony: My launch pad is my hand, I'm just borrowing there.
[3512.06] Danny (Joker): To be fair, Canva Sands was more worried about Tony bringing his dog on the beach than us flying a
[3517.82] Danny (Joker): drone.
[3518.3] Frank: Yeah, well, to be fair, dog's everywhere. Mine doesn't.
[3526.62] Tony: Notes to everyone, Frank Swar, it was Frank brought the tone of the showdown.
[3533.58] Tony: She's right at the very end, we nearly made it.
[3536.22] Tony: We nearly made it.
[3537.18] Lee: One minute to go.
[3540.14] Lee: There we go.
[3540.86] Lee: And it's all...
[3541.34] Danny (Joker): That's all just for joining for f*** sake, Frank.
[3544.62] Frank: Well, we've got to make sure that the editor actually listens to the end, you see.
[3548.38] Frank: Oh, that's all it is.
[3551.1] Lee: Fantastic. So we're just coming to the end in this. I think, you know, to summarize, because I
[3557.1] Lee: think what happened with the video that Andy and I did a little while ago, a lot of people
[3561.1] Lee: watched the video were thoroughly confused at the end of it, which actually meant you'd
[3564.22] Lee: followed it perfectly because it is completely confusing and nobody knows what's going on.
[3569.5] Lee: But it did mean that people were getting a bit despondent. And, you know, I wouldn't take that
[3573.82] Lee: away from it. I think that this is very much a negotiation that's currently happening.
[3579.66] Lee: All the people who represent the hobby are there. We just need to make sure as a hobby that we
[3584.06] Lee: represent and behave ourselves and don't put really stupid things on YouTube that all the
[3588.7] Lee: people who are against the hobby can point to, as an example, is why it needs to be banned.
[3593.9] Lee: So let's have, you know, let's try and not do that for the next eight months.
[3599.42] Danny (Joker): Well, that's it. Today was really hard for us because we'd spent four hours, nearly four hours
[3604.86] Danny (Joker): driving, get there and they go, oh, no drones allowed. Why? Oh, because there's cars here and
[3611.34] Danny (Joker): people were spotted using drones to see what cars were here because there's Bentleys and stuff.
[3617.18] Tony: It's because Rockingham now has been sold and someone's bought it and now it's basically a
[3624.3] Tony: huge car park. And that's it. Apparently, there's people who have been flying
[3633.02] Tony: DJI, maybe. Stuff what hovers and points and stuff and finding where good cars are and then
[3640.06] Lee: going to borrow them. I think we need to finish on a slightly nicer note
[3646.54] Lee: after all that. So, Andrew, do you just want to recap on the competition and then we'll close
[3653.26] Lee: it out because that's gone very quickly. We're on time. Absolutely. So please do send in your
[3658.62] Frank: favorite moments of LDO from over the past four years to us at letstrownout.com and you will be
[3665.26] Frank: in with a chance of winning some goodies from Drone is Life. Also, massive thanks to all our
[3670.78] Frank: patrons. Without you, we wouldn't be able to continue doing this because come August,
[3678.94] Frank: the system we currently use Google Hangouts is disappearing. Hangouts on air will no longer be
[3684.14] Frank: a thing and we're having to build our own system to be able to continue to do this.
[3688.62] Frank: So thank you very much for all your support without which we wouldn't carry on.
[3693.58] Lee: Good point. And it kind of goes back to what was saying before. If there are things in the hobby
[3696.7] Lee: that you get for free, that you enjoy, support them and then they'll stay around. So you have
[3701.98] Lee: been listening to Let's Drone Out, episode 203. So with me tonight, we've had Danny. We've had Tony.
[3713.1] Lee: We've had Andrew. Bye. And I've been Lee Schofield, also known as Painless360.
[3719.1] Lee: Have a wonderful week and happy flying.