=== Let's Drone Out — Episode 216 ===
Title: LDO 216 - Bytefrost vs DJI
Recorded: 2019-10-17
Hosts: Andy, Neil "NJ Tech" Jones, Wayne "CurryKitten" Andrews, Jack "Brightontillifly" Nash, Tony "TheTonstar1" Marchant, Andrew "Frank" Hyams
Guest(s): Chris "Bludz" Olah, Rob Thomson
Total audience: 2,677
Platforms: YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iM1klTvLzA); SoundCloud (http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/feeds.soundcloud.com/stream/698448529-letsdroneout-ldo-216-bytefrost-vs-tji.mp3)
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[0.0] AndyRC: Hello and you're listening to the best drone podcast out there. Let's drone out.
[4.48] AndyRC: We would like to thank all of our Patreons including
[8.24] AndyRC: Mikey Dredd as well as Art Faulkner and
[13.2] Jack: That's it. We've only got two out of the four twelve dollar Patreons
[19.36] Jack: who would help pay for the editing for this train wreck of a show.
[24.24] Jack: If you want to get your name read out please donate
[28.0] Jack: to patreon.com forward slash let's drone out.
[62.88] Curry: Welcome everybody to another awesome episode of let's drone out
[66.8] Curry: featuring our technical experts who are working on trying to get his own
[71.2] Curry: camera working. Let's introduce him. It's Jack
[74.0] Jack: bright until I fly. Say hi Jack. I don't even think people can hear me.
[80.48] Curry: We can hear Jack. Nobody else may be able to but there you go.
[86.08] Curry: We've also got on the show Rob Thompson. Hello.
[90.4] Curry: We've got Bloods. Hello. We've got N.J. Handsome Man.
[96.24] Curry: Yeah thank you so much. Hello everyone. Andy RC is here.
[100.08] Curry: How do. I haven't got any of the little phrases. Shall I say my little Tony
[104.56] Curry: is here. Bonjour. And I'm Kerry Kitten Wayne. Hello.
[110.24] Curry: We've been talking a lot about HD recently.
[113.76] Curry: Obviously the DJI had been out and he did a massive video on that one.
[118.08] Curry: Oh Jack's here. Hello. Do you want to start again and take over? No it's fine.
[122.16] Jack: No you did a great job. No that was great. Oh thank you. Don't tell me you don't need me anymore.
[128.8] Curry: But we missed your lovely face and you're interesting here.
[133.28] Curry: And so now the exciting news is that several of us have managed to acquire
[141.84] Curry: the Fat Shark. I forgot what's called again. What is it again? Bifrost. The Bifrost system.
[147.6] Curry: This isn't mine. This is Rob's over there. I've stolen it from him as
[151.84] Curry: payment for coming on the show. That's how desperate he was to come on.
[154.8] Curry: But we thought it'd be a good chance to sort of discuss the pros and cons because
[161.44] Curry: they seem to be available in very limited numbers.
[165.52] AndyRC: Can I just say sorry? Disclaimer. Disclaimer.
[168.08] Jack: No no. It's stuck on blood. He's talking disclaimer.
[170.96] Curry: Get it off the screen.
[174.24] Curry: Any views expressed by any guests on the show?
[176.0] Curry: Personal and may not reflect the views or host on any participant that you show.
[179.2] Curry: Especially NDRC. Don't listen to him. He works for Emacs.
[181.92] AndyRC: Oh it's changing now. It was stuck on bloods for ages.
[186.72] AndyRC: Still bad thing. He's a lot looking.
[189.36] AndyRC: Yeah. Get it off me. Get it off me.
[191.44] AndyRC: No it's fine. What was that about me working for Emacs Blaine? Didn't I hear a little birdie
[196.8] AndyRC: tell me that you've got some contact. I believe you're on the payroll now. Isn't that right?
[203.04] Curry: It was me. I told you that. But no I'm not on the payroll unfortunately.
[206.48] Curry: Neither am I.
[207.52] Curry: I'm trying to make contact. Basically anybody that can send me stuff to look at I'll pretty
[212.24] Curry: much haul myself out for that. But getting back to it. So hands up. Who's got a bite frost?
[220.08] Curry: One. Two. So let's start. What are your experience with the bite frost? Have you used the DJI system
[226.4] Curry: and how do you think it compares to analog? I think those are the big three questions
[230.16] Curry: on anybody's mind aren't they?
[233.68] Bludz: Yeah it seems to be definitely what most people are asking in the comments. Or telling me in
[239.6] Bludz: the comments. Not so much asking anything. Just more complaining and moaning about how it isn't
[246.8] Bludz: as good a quality as DJI. Which yeah in terms of video quality it's yeah you can't lie. It isn't
[255.92] Bludz: as good as the DJI system. But it does fit inside a quad a lot easier. I can use it with my HDOs
[265.44] Bludz: that fit my face nicely. I've tried the DJI's at the weekend and they're a bit weird fitting.
[273.04] Bludz: But they're pretty comfortable. They just don't fit as nicely as fat sharks. But they're comfortable
[279.36] Bludz: enough. And yeah the video feed. The high frame rate video feed is pretty sweet. I ordered one
[288.64] Rob Thomson: yesterday so. There you go. I have the pleasure of having both. So my DJI one's over here and
[298.56] Rob Thomson: obviously Wayne's got the bite frost at the moment. And 100% agreed. You know bite frost
[305.44] Rob Thomson: is seriously lacking compared to DJI. But it does have some advantages. And primarily you know
[314.48] Rob Thomson: certainly the DJI one whilst it's superb. You know I've had one incident where well my three
[319.92] Rob Thomson: inch quad is no more. It's somewhere I don't know be found one day. And that was the result of the
[327.76] Rob Thomson: DJI signal literally just completely freezing. And I made the mistake of punching out when I couldn't
[333.68] Bludz: see. Never saw the quad again. Yeah I saw your video on that one actually. Yeah yeah. Sorry for
[341.2] AndyRC: your loss mate. Yeah. Well I would say Rob never give up. I had one in the top of a tree for two
[348.24] AndyRC: weeks. Yeah. And I just had a I was just went for a stroll. No intention of ever getting it back
[356.0] Rob Thomson: and just saw it amazingly. I had traipsed around that field and there's nothing in the field.
[363.68] Rob Thomson: It could be in the trees but there's about half a kilometer of trees.
[367.84] AndyRC: Well I had the same problem. So many trees. But yeah it was I think we had four of us looking for
[378.32] AndyRC: it for five hours over the space over the space of two weeks. And I just went out for a stroll
[384.16] AndyRC: after I'd finished another video. I literally looked at the tree for three minutes and saw it
[389.52] Rob Thomson: and I was like that's ridiculous. That's the way you find it when you're not looking for it. Well
[394.56] AndyRC: when you do lose something like that especially something that's got value you panic of course
[400.72] AndyRC: and you're not thinking rationally and your main objection is to get it back as soon as possible.
[407.68] AndyRC: And we had torrential downpour and but somehow it survived you know. I solved the problem. I
[416.0] Curry: ordered another. Obviously I'm contractually obliged to say let's talk about battery backed
[422.4] Rob Thomson: beepers which go BTP. Let's talk about the fact that i-flat quads don't come with them as default
[430.48] Curry: and has two rush to go out. Well that's it. That's what happens when you rush.
[437.28] Curry: I guess the next thing to talk about then is the other thing that people talk about the difference
[443.6] Curry: in the two systems because everybody is pretty much to agree that the DJI and I'm very keen to
[448.96] Curry: say JI because we're always getting complaints about the DJI which we all seem to say somehow
[453.36] Curry: in our accents. The general consensus is the DJI is a very complete system. It's a plug and play
[460.8] Curry: once you give your detail to China and the display is beautiful and it just works. But
[466.64] Curry: then when you talk about the breakup and the sort of the variable bit rate and how's that compare
[472.0] Curry: what is coming out the favorite there. Let's say we're flying around a tree we get some bit of
[475.92] Curry: static. Do we prefer the the analog like breakup of the bike frost or do we like the sort of
[482.24] Curry: going a bit wobbly around the corners of the DJI system? You know what the thing the thing to
[487.6] Rob Thomson: realize the DJI one from everything I've done we actually don't see it for a layman. I'm quite sure
[494.24] Rob Thomson: guys who are racing quads would probably notice the latency. Me with my kind of freestyle don't
[499.44] Rob Thomson: even see it. So when it does catch you by surprise it comes in hard and fast because I'm not looking
[504.88] Rob Thomson: at the frame rate you know I'm just looking at the view. So I think unlike the fat shock one you
[513.12] Rob Thomson: know that the bike frost there's a clear like analog there's clear warning it's going because
[519.04] Rob Thomson: you see it with all the blocks busy falling away from you. Whereas the DJI it's not so obvious
[523.84] AndyRC: it's kind of perfect perfect perfect and then it goes. Can we um back up and sort of I'm intrigued
[531.92] AndyRC: on how how you guys ended up with the bike frost because um usually there is the the the the the
[542.8] AndyRC: big youtubers have it first but that it's been different this time so. Well if I found it myself
[551.36] Rob Thomson: because um on is it um instagram I subscribed to the fat shock um channel and they announced
[559.12] AndyRC: that get fpv had them. Yes I saw them on there. That's that's where I got mine. So what what
[565.76] AndyRC: country are you based in if you don't mind? I'm in the UK. So you and you so you so they're like
[572.24] AndyRC: 400 right? Yeah. So was there any issue with I because I bought from the US did you get
[580.0] AndyRC: crazy tax on top of that? I'll find out next week.
[583.84] Rob Thomson: Yeah they arrived in two days via fedex which normally means I'll get the tax bill next week.
[591.52] AndyRC: Yeah because I bought the the DJI system from race day quads uh and a week later got a bill
[598.64] AndyRC: for the 140 quid something like that. Yeah it will be something like that. Yeah I went with uh
[605.84] Bludz: dhl for shipping from get fpv and uh yeah no no tax it looks like so. Also so no no nobody actually
[616.0] AndyRC: got some one for free then you all bought everything. I've got mine yeah. Yeah it has
[622.8] Curry: it only been get fpv that's got them do we know as it is anybody else. According to that shop that's
[627.44] Rob Thomson: the case they're the only ones um and what was curious is that fed shop obviously working with
[633.52] Rob Thomson: get fpv because I was emailed the manual by fed shop and they knew I'd purchased it.
[638.72] Rob Thomson: So um there's clearly some relationship going on between them.
[644.16] AndyRC: Yeah well what's interesting is you both bought both of them so you're clearly interested in
[651.52] AndyRC: in this thing right you're you're you're in deep if you've bought both of them. I can't even look
[657.76] AndyRC: at the wall behind me. Yeah I love fpv mate so that's why I bought it. Yeah new technology it's
[666.24] AndyRC: got to be purchased. So can you add I don't I don't I think they're doing my my uh sort of view on
[673.28] AndyRC: them is I think they're both doing different things to each other so I think it's actually
[678.56] AndyRC: quite difficult to compare them. It seems like the fat sharks are a one upon analog so you get
[685.92] AndyRC: less breakup but it's really for the pilot in the moment whereas the dgi systems for the pilot in
[693.04] AndyRC: the moment but it's also got the the the hd side side of it and it and it's not as good at dealing
[702.24] AndyRC: with like you say the variable latency and when you get break like that. So yeah it seems like
[709.36] AndyRC: even though even though they're both claving hd to me I think it's quite difficult to compare them.
[717.44] Rob Thomson: You know what the thing the thing that and it's I've watched a lot of other videos since following
[722.72] Rob Thomson: on from my one falling over um like it did and the thing is dji it doesn't really break up you can
[730.96] Rob Thomson: push it so far with almost no hint of a problem at all and you will outclass your analog by far
[740.24] Rob Thomson: but then you hit a threshold and at that point then I'd far rather be on analog because the
[746.4] Rob Thomson: benefits of analog come out and just you know you can you can get a signal back very quickly
[751.36] Rob Thomson: with analog you're going to fly through noise but I think what's absolutely clear is everywhere
[756.64] Rob Thomson: where I would normally fly where I had regular breakup with my analog system I'd fly with the
[762.48] Rob Thomson: dji quad there was nothing it was just absolutely perfect. And uh nj I know I know you're muted at
[769.52] AndyRC: the moment but I know I know you're sort of uh sort of on the fence uh have you brought into any
[776.32] NJ: of the systems yourself or are you waiting? No I think I will probably be going with the dji system
[786.4] NJ: but um the thing is I think that the people need to take into account here is the subjectivity
[796.32] NJ: of uh of your situation and where you fly if you're someone that's flying in like where I do
[803.68] NJ: where you know there's occasional trees there's a lot of open fields there's not I don't fly away
[808.48] NJ: very far but then if I do it's usually I'm at the top of a hill it's good clean line of sight
[813.92] NJ: then that sort of system isn't going to be a problem for for me it's going to work for me
[818.72] NJ: if you're someone that's going to be flying around a lot of concrete and in and out of gaps and
[823.52] NJ: there's there's different areas where these things are going to have their
[827.68] NJ: their pitfalls and their pros and I think it's important not to get too caught up in the
[833.44] NJ: the kind of the glorious side of having HD without deciding whether there might be some other pitfalls
[839.2] NJ: in there that are kind of in the small print but might actually be quite critical to whether you
[845.28] NJ: should actually just stay on analog for the time being um so that's that's kind of my my feeling on
[851.12] NJ: it for my subjectively speaking for me and where I fly and what I do I'm never for the time being
[858.24] NJ: there's no way I'm getting rid of my analog stuff especially for the micro stuff of course we haven't
[862.08] NJ: got an HD solution for that yet um but for the bigger stuff yes I probably will uh go the DJI
[869.28] NJ: route um and uh yeah obviously slight concerns about fitment you know I've put videos out
[875.12] NJ: where I've I've burned certain manufacturers for for their choice on how they fit certain faces
[880.72] NJ: but um I think I heard somewhere out in the out in the uh wild um DJI might be looking at
[888.64] NJ: putting some correction face plates in the into the uh the mix and there's stuff on thingiverse
[895.12] NJ: as well isn't there you can get a couple of different adapt amounts to stop the uh the
[898.48] NJ: side leak and various other things so that's all um yeah I mean it's progress it's still very new
[905.36] NJ: and you just have to be very honest with yourself before spending quite a big big amount of money I
[911.68] Tony: guess I think this question is sorry guys are you guys all worried about getting locked in
[920.24] Tony: like to DJI stuff like imagine if they just take over and they've got like uh they've got so much
[927.52] Tony: money and they could just knock us all in so easily like this is well not I don't think so
[933.36] AndyRC: because because not everybody's going to buy it not everyone's going to be able to afford it
[938.72] AndyRC: you know as a reviewer I do this as a job I had to take a long look before I pulled the plug and
[948.48] AndyRC: I was like it sort of was my obligation to to to get one so um I think there's a lot of people
[958.16] AndyRC: out there that will just stick with with analog but one thing that's for sure is I think in the
[964.8] AndyRC: hobby not a lot has changed for quite a while there's been incremental updates you know we've
[971.12] AndyRC: had these split cameras we like even the tarsier with the two cameras but this is a a leap um
[980.4] AndyRC: so some people are gonna be on board with that what what's kind of frustrating is I just wish
[987.04] AndyRC: there was was one because it's now that there's two it's it's it's so divine it's so divine
[995.92] Curry: that's where we get locked in the idea is there's multiple providers yeah yeah yeah yeah I don't
[1002.24] Rob Thomson: mind if there's many of these things but I'd prefer it if at least an open standard was implemented
[1008.56] Rob Thomson: you know and you know I was thinking about this the other day I had a comment on one of my videos
[1015.36] Rob Thomson: and it was talking about the fact where I was saying I didn't like the fact that it got
[1019.04] Rob Thomson: locked in and essentially with digital that seems to always be the way yeah but it's not it's not
[1026.4] Rob Thomson: always the way because think of ethernet networks and wi-fi there are open standards well there's
[1031.84] AndyRC: like the multi-protocol modules yeah transmitters as well but you know um yeah I mean could there
[1041.28] AndyRC: could there be a time where somebody can can get into that DJI system we don't I don't know
[1047.68] NJ: I mean isn't it competition that that's going to drive all of this in the first place yeah it's
[1051.68] NJ: like anything new the same with USB or anything that there was one thing that suddenly became
[1057.52] NJ: overwhelmingly that you know what then became the standard and it's the same with you know you
[1063.04] NJ: could say the same about flight control software and you know eventually everyone was like it's
[1068.4] NJ: all about base flight and then all the flight controllers that were being produced from making
[1072.8] NJ: sure they were conforming to where base flight was going base flight predominantly going saying
[1078.72] NJ: that they're predominantly f4 real strong market for f4 base flight base controllers all these
[1084.16] NJ: things are driven by the competition so you know however you look at the the the bite frost I think
[1090.0] NJ: as long as there is competition getting into the mix it's only ever going to be a good thing for
[1094.8] NJ: for the rest of us um so uh but I mean I think DJI like Apple you know that it's a fantastic
[1102.72] NJ: system we're all there yeah we're all there bitch one way or another I just I just don't like how
[1108.32] AndyRC: it's dividing people that's the bit I don't like it's like it's it's like I don't think there's a
[1114.96] Rob Thomson: slogan conquer Andy it's because of the politics there is a big issue which hasn't been raised at
[1122.64] Rob Thomson: all but what that I've seen with the DJI ones and if you think about it this is just DJI it's
[1130.24] Rob Thomson: fantastic we have great goggles but they don't even keep compatibility within their own product
[1136.72] Rob Thomson: ranges so the phantom transmitters batteries everything are completely different to your
[1142.08] Rob Thomson: medic you know chargers literally the works it's a completely different product suite
[1147.6] Rob Thomson: now if I take a look at these goggles I used to have the old big DJI racing ones that they had
[1153.28] Rob Thomson: which um support okie sync which is fantastic because you could fly with the medic but um why
[1159.44] Rob Thomson: doesn't this support okie sync it seems to me this is where they should have gone because then
[1165.28] AndyRC: well I you see this is why I disagree because they they they can't have it compatible with
[1171.6] AndyRC: okie sync because okie sync frequency hops and the fpv system doesn't frequency hop so you I think
[1181.6] Rob Thomson: you know that's a that's a protocol level so hopping or not at the end of the day
[1186.32] Rob Thomson: within the software of that you could very easily turn around and write some code in the same way
[1191.2] Rob Thomson: they have an analog feed coming in you're just saying okay talk okie sync it's the software
[1195.44] AndyRC: doing it not the hardware no but but well that's the thing that do we know that though
[1201.84] AndyRC: I don't I don't know that I think it's completely different than that I know I certainly know
[1207.84] AndyRC: frequency hopping certainly would add latency you see uh that which which the camera drones
[1214.56] AndyRC: can put up with because they've got gps but we need lower latency and yeah but this this
[1221.28] Rob Thomson: this is no different to um your 2.4 if you took um the free sky system it's an rf module
[1228.64] Rob Thomson: and under the free sky system what it's doing is basically chopping and changing frequencies
[1234.0] Rob Thomson: constantly whereas most of the other ones will only do it occasionally because you know similar
[1239.44] Rob Thomson: sort of issues it's the fact that these chipsets are locked essentially to one channel is for the
[1245.6] Rob Thomson: performance of that system and I get that yeah yeah but what's wrong with making the same goggles
[1251.12] Rob Thomson: also support you know you can't as far as making it support analog why not support your other parts
[1256.8] AndyRC: you well my guess my guess would be that if they would have done it they could have done it
[1263.84] AndyRC: I think they've got and they've got these other goggles that do do that yeah I don't I don't think
[1270.48] Rob Thomson: they would I think that everything I've seen and I've got I've had a fair number you know I've got
[1276.32] Rob Thomson: a Mavic here I've had more than one Mavic over the years I've had the goggles I've had plenty
[1280.64] Rob Thomson: of DJI kit and one thing is sure you're nothing is compatible with other stuff it just isn't
[1289.12] Rob Thomson: you know you'll get you know Occusync 2 you'll take you know that fancy transmitter that they
[1295.2] Rob Thomson: got a good one it's around here somewhere you know for controlling the Mavic it only supports
[1300.16] AndyRC: Occusync 2 and higher that crazy controller yeah yeah oh well I don't know I'm just I'm
[1308.88] AndyRC: blaming you for paying that amount of money for that it's fantastic though a cynical person could
[1315.2] Curry: think that DJI just want you to keep re-buying their products over and over again well that's
[1319.2] Rob Thomson: kind of where I'm at you know and this does go as far literally if you go by you know there used
[1326.72] Rob Thomson: to be the screen the um the DJI screen you plug into the bottom of the remote I've got one sitting
[1331.68] Rob Thomson: down on that side of the room somewhere and um that one if you want to charge it you have to get
[1337.6] Rob Thomson: a charger for a phantom to be able to charge it with all power supply and then have a different
[1342.8] Rob Thomson: adapter it's kind of it's a complete I guess I guess what I'm getting to is that they don't
[1348.24] Rob Thomson: have a stand just within their own products and maybe that's just because they've got a mess of
[1352.8] Rob Thomson: R&D different divisions and they're not talking to each other can I ask um uh Bloods because you've
[1359.52] NJ: you've had by far anyone I know anyway you've had you've had a really good amount of time you've
[1365.04] NJ: got your hands fully dirty with this bike frost system so yeah and I've been following you testing
[1371.44] NJ: closely I mean can you give us maybe an overview of how you have got on with it how your other I
[1379.76] NJ: guess how your experience also with you know your feedback and and talking as a base tester of this
[1386.56] NJ: obviously how your feedback's been coming across and are there any in terms of expectations are
[1391.68] NJ: there any pitfalls and bits that you found with that could you just expand a bit more on your
[1395.68] Bludz: experience with it um well in terms of being part of beta testing something
[1404.4] Bludz: although they offered it for sale and you had to actually pay to do the beta testing
[1409.2] Bludz: which I don't personally think is a bad thing um when you paid and you did you know effectively
[1416.0] Bludz: sign up to become a beta testing there was no like oh come and this is where you email or your
[1422.56] Bludz: comments there's no group set up there's such I just randomly saw something on RC groups and
[1428.64] Bludz: it looked like everybody was just talking about it there so it kind of seems like everything is
[1433.2] Bludz: happening on RC groups which if you're unfamiliar with that it's like a forum from the 1990s where
[1440.8] Bludz: it's all email based you mean it's not on Facebook it's not it's not a poor move yeah it's not
[1446.64] Bludz: Facebook um which I mean I hate Facebook but at the end of the day it's extremely convenient
[1452.96] Bludz: um and it would have been probably a better place to carry out a beta test um so in terms of a beta
[1461.04] Bludz: testing platform it's not really being run very efficiently I don't think they're doing any form
[1469.12] Rob Thomson: of testing with the community they're just basically getting it out there yeah it's a shame
[1474.16] Curry: actually because if there was a central place where people reported this I would have had a
[1478.64] Curry: problem because one of the gotchas I found is when I plugged it and I converted over
[1483.6] Curry: my little coppice one stuck the bite floss in there and like you said it's so easy to stick it
[1488.32] Curry: in any quad yeah but the problem I found is I wasn't getting any OSD information on my screen
[1493.84] Curry: after connecting out my UR and then by doing searching and searching and searching and
[1498.8] Curry: eventually finding an RC groups chat I find the thing about the MSP version of the protocol
[1503.84] Rob Thomson: yeah which was down so I had to flash the latest beta flight together but Wayne you're
[1508.56] Rob Thomson: embarrassing yourself here because I told you about that the other day you told me
[1513.92] Curry: to get your stuff on the OSD you you had to put it on your actual beta flight OSD
[1518.4] Curry: yeah I also told you I had you had to have MSP that's that's a lie you never said a thing
[1525.36] Bludz: it's a setup yeah there's quite a few little flaky things to do with uh like the OSD and
[1532.88] Bludz: stuff it does look like um they have got somebody working uh on the knightlies to bring something
[1539.28] Bludz: to it so um the rssr values were a little bit weird yeah and I use um crossfire so
[1547.12] Rob Thomson: well I found um yeah I ended up having to relay it back from the transmitter and getting a weird
[1552.72] Rob Thomson: value like between three and 600 before it would kind of right even get right it kind of almost
[1558.24] Rob Thomson: overflows if you go beyond 600 it suddenly goes back to naught when you're saying knightlies
[1565.52] AndyRC: you're talking about beta flight there's no firmware for the bite frost system uh there is
[1572.56] Bludz: there is firmware for the bite frost system itself as well for both the vtx and the uh the rx and
[1580.4] Bludz: the screen itself um and the dvr I guess all that's got its own firmware but um
[1587.36] Bludz: things to do with uh beta flight OSD that's a lot of that has to be done within beta flight and uh
[1594.72] Bludz: the coding there so I think they've got somebody who knows what they're doing and is uh adding
[1600.08] Bludz: code to it and testing stuff and then doing pull requests and doing all that that side of of the
[1607.68] Rob Thomson: hobby um yeah but you know it's also a shame if you picked up you know when the um bite frost how
[1614.88] Rob Thomson: when you read the manual and they'll tell you it will quite happily work with just two antennas
[1619.44] Rob Thomson: and it's great because I was saying that with four antennas you got the direction and the
[1622.48] Rob Thomson: performance is so much better which are great but they also tell you they decided to go for that
[1628.72] Rob Thomson: over a module um because you know why didn't they just do the module because if you can get away
[1635.68] Bludz: with two antennas you know how many more these would you sell yeah well it's a it is a funny one
[1643.84] Frank: this episode was recorded in front of a live online audience downloaded and edited to make
[1648.4] Frank: sense when it played audio only censored to please the iTunes people hosted on the internet
[1653.44] Frank: forwarded through to your podcast provider downloaded playing on your device and is now
[1657.76] Frank: playing in your ears all thanks to our patreons consider joining them and you'll also get other
[1663.28] Frank: online benefits find out more at patreon.com forward slash let's drone out so one thing I wanted to
[1670.56] Curry: mention about bite frost because we've talked previously about isn't DJI expensive because you
[1676.48] Curry: have to buy the goggles and everything else and all that sort of stuff but I thought that and Rob
[1681.6] Curry: we talked about this earlier one of the problems with bite frost is the fact that it is HB it's
[1688.16] Curry: 720p but of course most of the goggles we use aren't I mean I've got uh Dom B Freeze which are
[1696.4] Curry: something like 800 by 640 lots of goggles around the uh what 640 by 480 that sort of stuff and
[1703.92] Curry: there's only even HDOs aren't they haven't got the full 1280 by 720 they're like 960 you'll
[1709.76] Rob Thomson: actually see the HDOs actually when you look at it with the bite frost it actually chops off the
[1714.4] Rob Thomson: edges of the screen very slightly when it fits because it doesn't give you a perfect match um
[1719.76] Rob Thomson: yeah Wayne and I chatted a lot about this and you know my view is you know where DJI have done
[1725.28] Rob Thomson: well with this it's a complete integrated unit because the problem is is that digital doesn't
[1733.2] Rob Thomson: work well with analog gear and analog doesn't work well with digital gear um you see this just you
[1738.8] Rob Thomson: know go go bother watching the early Harry Potter films which were done in HD and go put them on
[1744.08] Rob Thomson: your lovely HD television and you go this is crap it's all grainy because it all gets upscaled and
[1750.16] Rob Thomson: you know the whole visual system is simply different and in many regards you know it's
[1757.76] Rob Thomson: if anyone's who's got the DJI goggles tries feeding an analog feed into it
[1762.0] Rob Thomson: you can it looks okay but it looks a damn sight better under my HDOs
[1768.32] Rob Thomson: now that's kind of because you're taking this tiny picture and upscaling it so how do you truly
[1775.44] Rob Thomson: compare the two you know I think the only comparison you'll truly have with um
[1780.8] Rob Thomson: bite frost is when someone and I'm hoping you Wayne can plug it eventually into some box goggles
[1785.52] Rob Thomson: I've got yeah I found these in my cupboard these are the old e-shine um
[1790.64] Curry: goggle twos what an inspirational name but they do have a proper 1080p LCD screen in there
[1797.68] Curry: are you sure they are e-shining
[1799.6] Curry: no I checked it I checked it I've taken a banner out of one of them and seen
[1804.96] Jack: I've got them as well they are legit if I ever see that antenna and I'm with you I'm going to
[1811.2] AndyRC: eat it I'm just going to put it in my mouth can I just can I just change the subject slightly
[1817.12] AndyRC: I know it's this is meant to be about listen no how much are I know NJ and Bloods have got
[1828.0] AndyRC: a little project going on do you guys want to disclose anything from that or are we moving on
[1836.91] NJ: uh well we can disclose that there because I did say on my channel we we have been working
[1844.67] NJ: on a frame that it and it will be in the toothpick class are you are you sure are you sure
[1851.39] NJ: the toothpick should we say that yeah okay so Andy knows the name of the frame which is why
[1858.91] NJ: he's saying that but yeah it is um is uh it's going to be a toothpick sized frame that's what
[1865.55] NJ: we're looking at we we've I think uh Bloods mentioned to me that the prototypes are being
[1870.27] NJ: cut now on the v1s well isn't it isn't it twink class zero point yeah zero one yeah
[1881.15] Bludz: this is a whole new genre I don't think you can call it new genre and I don't know if you can
[1892.94] Bludz: really call it a genre it's a bit of a weird one because remember that um that quad you sent me
[1898.38] Bludz: Andy when you sent me back the uh up on that flying egg oh yeah yeah I mean technically
[1904.78] Bludz: isn't that a uh yeah it's a tiny little this is why I own this is why I argue it's heavier
[1913.5] Bludz: yeah sure I think it I think the toothpick means super lightweight two inch two to three inch
[1921.26] AndyRC: you know people keep reinventing the same stuff
[1927.42] AndyRC: Rob set the nail on the head yeah it's it's trying to rebrand something that's already a thing
[1932.86] Rob Thomson: to yeah yeah here we go can you see here there's toothpick oh
[1939.18] AndyRC: where's the reference Lina 120 I'm the other one's the AR I think this was a bounty maybe
[1945.02] Rob Thomson: this is uh I don't know whatever it is but this is a lot lighter two years old right
[1950.7] Rob Thomson: so far them at least no this this was a pizza 85 this is I mean oh right okay this is a through
[1957.34] Rob Thomson: fighter that shit was a pizza 75 before I modified it yeah and this this is maybe an SPC maker which
[1964.06] Rob Thomson: wobbles like crazy which is why it's on the wall permanent engine is about that oh no not the SPC
[1970.7] Rob Thomson: makers I've actually got one in the box over there I might do a giveaway one day
[1977.02] Bludz: that would be an evil giveaway yeah
[1983.5] Bludz: I think the main things that define a toothpick class drone is that it's two to three inch props
[1990.78] Bludz: super lightweight frame and perhaps most importantly it runs one of those little
[1997.02] Bludz: crazy b all-in-one boards that's designed for a warp but you can run pretty powerful motors on
[2003.42] Bludz: it really and up to 4s in some cases so yeah it's quite a cool little project that we've been
[2010.62] NJ: working on yeah I mean I think in terms of of the kind of mission objective for those kind of
[2019.66] NJ: that's that class or that size and something that interests me because obviously I've done a lot more
[2024.46] NJ: probably in the last year to do with the micro stuff than I have the larger stuff
[2029.1] NJ: is you know with things having gone the way they have you know and I feel like we're slowly
[2035.58] NJ: edging our way backing out of the press conference room in the media when it comes to drones I think
[2042.38] NJ: we're slightly starting to get away away from it a little bit now but going for something that's
[2047.98] NJ: super light that's quiet that's still fast for me specifically for me that I was selfish about and
[2054.94] NJ: thankfully it's something that bloods also enjoys a lot is freestyle it's got to be good at freestyle
[2059.9] NJ: um and one thing I always used to do is is is chuck up especially when I was dealing with the
[2064.7] NJ: micro stuff was put up videos and say what size quad is this you know there's a few videos I did
[2069.98] NJ: and I'd get people saying you know five inch whatever you did get sizes clearly bigger than
[2075.58] NJ: it actually was and I think one of the ones I ended up a little custom one I put together was
[2079.74] NJ: like super tiny even smaller than that running like two inch props that was a freestyler
[2085.02] NJ: and but that thing screamed that was super noisy um the idea with this will be to go down to buy
[2090.06] NJ: blades slightly lower rpm but good control so just a great lightweight low noise um won't
[2097.26] NJ: harm anyone freestyler that you can just keep in the glove box of your car pull out have a ton of
[2102.94] NJ: pocket full of batteries and you hardly have to take much gear out with you so it's a very similar
[2107.98] NJ: sort of mission statement to what kebab has been trying to do and arguably the guy who's kind of
[2112.86] NJ: driven a lot of the fashion of of the toothpick stuff well I mean it's it's kind of his idea
[2118.54] NJ: but yeah and also with the new rules coming in and all the crap that's going along with that
[2124.62] NJ: it was just um we should have called it the Brex pick
[2130.06] AndyRC: why didn't I um well well maybe you've just announced the name of it
[2138.94] NJ: um but that's that's the way we're heading and there will be as soon as we've got these
[2144.14] NJ: prototypes loaded up we'll uh we'll we'll start showing off um well we we've got it and there is
[2149.66] NJ: a couple of radical ideas in there so it's not just uh this I mean it's gonna have four arms
[2154.22] NJ: yeah there is some repeatable stuff in here but there is some there's some some cool innovation
[2158.7] NJ: in there as well and and you know I'm a stickler for detail so um as is as is blood so yeah we've
[2164.94] NJ: we're happy with where we are at naught point naught one prototype and if if it does yes if it
[2172.54] AndyRC: if it does become a final product will it where will he be able to get it it will be available
[2180.06] Curry: everywhere but china well for about a week until they get hold of one and just like yeah
[2186.54] NJ: we won't be shipping to china that's for sure um yeah I guess it's the end really uh I haven't
[2193.34] Bludz: really thought about that just uh probably just from me to be fair and uh I've got a reseller in
[2200.94] Bludz: Sweden yeah so be direct from the halo RC website or from uh drone it if you live in Sweden or near
[2209.5] Bludz: there so yeah yeah that should be um interesting yeah looking forward to probably it's it's going
[2217.65] Bludz: to be it's definitely not going to take as long as um design and a five inch because I mean it's
[2223.41] Bludz: just not a lot to it and it's not like I'm definitely it's not like I'm just gonna straight
[2229.49] Bludz: up clone somebody else's design but um we can we can safely say there's nothing else that looks
[2234.93] Tony: like this yeah yeah well looking at the chat everyone everyone wants to call it
[2245.73] AndyRC: the only problem I think you've started so like the only problem is it'd have to be a disaster
[2251.09] NJ: to call it that yeah it will never we'll talk about it and we'll keep upgrading stuff but it
[2257.25] NJ: will never actually take off no deal to deliver it over and over again it just won't happen
[2267.81] NJ: this time next year promise we'll definitely have it out the door
[2272.77] NJ: but yeah that's the other things the things I'm moving fast like I mean when did we start talking
[2276.85] NJ: about this uh week ago a week and a half ago and we've got stuff being cut so we're trying to move
[2282.53] NJ: on it uh you know reasonably quickly um so yeah exciting so I think it's that that is always going
[2290.37] AndyRC: to keep analog alive is I think I think we're probably some years away until HD FPV can get
[2298.77] AndyRC: that small then again we DJI threw a curveball at us didn't they with this so who knows what is
[2305.49] AndyRC: going on but uh hopefully uh yeah uh I think analog will always have a place and I said this
[2312.93] AndyRC: in my review of the DJI thing it's it's just something new and exciting and um it things
[2319.73] AndyRC: were going a bit stale and uh so we've got now got more options which is cool I mean the other
[2326.93] NJ: thing to mention probably is obviously this wasn't the first this didn't arrive out of nowhere as the
[2331.97] NJ: first ever HD system there was obviously the connex and the problem was that was so massively
[2337.73] NJ: hyped up by connex uh and then when it came out there was obviously these huge things like
[2344.77] NJ: oh my god how many antenna how big how this whole system is ridiculous and it was an absolute
[2350.29] NJ: fortune and there was so much disappointment after so much hype which obviously something
[2355.65] NJ: we're quite now familiar and quite jaded towards in the quad community there was there was that
[2361.09] Rob Thomson: he blew as well wasn't there did anybody have that they shut down recently um there I was on the
[2368.93] Rob Thomson: notification list for that other guy I think basically just couldn't get the funding or
[2372.77] AndyRC: interest from people so eventually he stopped well that I think probably the problem with that
[2377.57] AndyRC: is that it ran off uh 1.2 gigahertz it no he changed it to 5.8 the first day 1.2 they needed
[2384.45] Rob Thomson: a 5.8 or maybe it was 2.4 but um he eventually got all the boards everything ready to go but
[2390.13] NJ: just couldn't get the funding investment for people but I think that there was the problem
[2396.05] NJ: is now after things went the way they did back then uh and with analog gaining at the time was
[2403.41] NJ: was gaining strength really I think the um the problem is now there's people some people
[2410.45] NJ: unfortunately are just ready poised ready to to jump on and hate any new technology like the
[2417.57] NJ: DJ has come along and it's I think it's a company unfortunately some people do love to hate and they
[2422.93] NJ: will um because of their affiliation with the the people who are using them because idiots can fly
[2430.13] NJ: the phantoms over a prison and drop stuff in it and because of that affiliation there's a part of
[2436.05] NJ: the our side of the community that will just hate DJI for that but it doesn't change the fact that
[2441.81] NJ: they come up with a great product they've jumped into a sector of our space uh with a great product
[2449.09] NJ: and yeah there's there's going to be people that hate it and are ready to kick it before it's even
[2453.65] NJ: launched but they're selling they're selling well people are getting on board they are inevitably
[2458.77] NJ: going to come down in price new versions will come out it will you know and if it's driving
[2463.81] NJ: competition now then all the better so I like to keep a positive spin on it so do I think it's a
[2469.17] Curry: good thing interesting I think this has become slightly tribal I think Rob got this from both
[2474.45] Curry: sides when he lost that drone he got aside from the people hating on DJI he had all the DJI sort
[2479.65] Curry: of purists saying you were doing it wrong it's all your fault you lost it well I tell you what
[2487.09] AndyRC: I thought we could do this hands up who's lost an analog
[2492.69] Curry: sorry
[2509.25] AndyRC: so analog is not exempt from getting lost either we should you know
[2517.01] Bludz: we're not going anywhere anytime soon now mainly down to the price um but partly down to the size
[2524.61] Bludz: I mean everything's been getting smaller smaller smaller smaller and although the DJI fits inside
[2530.53] Bludz: um a five inch quad I mean all my five inch quads have been converted to 20 by 20s now
[2537.41] Bludz: 6s 20 by 20 so I'm actually having to use old gear to run the bike thrust so so bike thrust 30 by 30
[2546.05] Curry: yeah I see what people forget
[2555.81] Bludz: so it's going to point out the nylon nuts don't fit on the top
[2563.65] Rob Thomson: but on the toggle front does anyone have the orcas coming
[2568.53] NJ: I'm on the I'm I'm actually on the list for that um but I haven't heard from them for ages they
[2574.61] NJ: they're initially um I've got an email contact with them and they gave me a big long spiel and
[2580.85] NJ: put me on the list and how long ago was that now when that list was for the reviewers was that
[2587.41] NJ: Andy why did you say no comment why do you know that I don't know no it's all right you
[2591.57] AndyRC: you then said it you then said it okay I wasn't sure if you were allowed to say there's a list
[2597.17] AndyRC: but um well it's out there now but once it's not meaning that was that disclaimer yeah no that
[2603.81] Tony: that was their word yeah yeah I think I can't leave medias on a list media lists yeah but is
[2612.69] Curry: it the same list me and what I was just going to say about like how things was if you only have
[2621.01] Curry: to go about like five years you have to pay 70 quid for an immersion RC albeit a 600 milliwatt
[2627.25] Curry: vtx which had eight channels your goggles worked on like 85 db it didn't have that lovely sensitive
[2635.65] Curry: next waves type receiver it didn't have even diversity so the stuff that's happened the
[2640.37] Curry: prices that have come down and the way the vtx has just shrunk and you can buy like a really
[2644.85] Curry: good vtx that speaks more audio for like under 20 quid you can buy good diversity system for like
[2649.81] Curry: 40 quid is is miles away from where it was so you may get that progression on digital depending
[2656.61] Curry: if it gets popular if it gets miniaturized obviously you know I think this is a bit of
[2662.05] Curry: a misstep everybody probably wants the version two where it fits there's some sort of module
[2665.89] Curry: and we're going to need goggles that actually take advantage of it but it's early days isn't it
[2671.73] NJ: yeah absolutely yeah I guess so the DJI system you have to put goggles in your
[2678.45] NJ: goggles in your pocket that would work but with your eyeballs put those in your pocket as well
[2681.89] NJ: um you have to put a battery in your pocket don't you to uh you can't right yeah you can buy these
[2686.93] AndyRC: nj but you only get an hour's use out of them the gmb made a special you can see the thing
[2694.29] Curry: okay sponsored by gmb other lipos are available
[2697.73] AndyRC: uh well I actually find myself I like the the tethering thing because it makes the goggles
[2707.57] AndyRC: lighter um but yeah you can but you can get smaller lipos that you'll get about an hour's use
[2713.97] Rob Thomson: out of them have you to do what I've done with um some cable tires to stop the blasted
[2718.85] AndyRC: power lead falling out yes it's it's not it's that is a problem I almost had uh them like I was like
[2727.09] AndyRC: I can feel it I don't know what it was but I just could feel like the the lead pulling out
[2733.57] AndyRC: yeah that is a problem it doesn't cause a problem now a cable tie will fix it you know so yeah I
[2740.69] AndyRC: mean it's not it's not like a lose the power lead yeah it's not a showstopper but yeah it's
[2746.61] AndyRC: certainly uh uh something I mentioned in my video but yeah no one more uh one thing I'm interested
[2753.17] AndyRC: in and uh can't look everybody talks about the bite frost being a hybrid between analog and hd
[2761.81] AndyRC: I'm not quite sure what they mean by that is it how can that be it's are they just are they just
[2769.81] AndyRC: describing what it feels like and it's fully hd or is there some analog in there how come and
[2775.81] NJ: speak up because I can see you smiling in the corner there as well
[2779.65] Rob Thomson: isn't it about frost is actually an analog camera feeding into a digital transmission system
[2787.49] Bludz: but Adam what I understand that is that is it it's it's an analog camera so an analog
[2794.29] Bludz: which I presume they mean an analog image sensor um but then it gets sped into a btx that spits out
[2803.09] Bludz: a digital pure digital transmission well this is um but surely all image sensors are analog
[2810.13] Bludz: because it's yeah they are on with real world so like every microphone is analog isn't it some of
[2816.69] Bludz: the uh I don't know I'm not like super technical so I'm not the right person to be answering the
[2821.57] Rob Thomson: question it's a very it's a very simple protocol that's happening there and it is it feels a little
[2828.29] Rob Thomson: bit more like the open hd type stuff where you're just kind of just pushing it out constantly here
[2833.33] Rob Thomson: is the stream of data and you latch onto it and if it's there it's there if it isn't it isn't
[2838.53] Rob Thomson: um I think the biggest advantage um did my tests from the last weekend what I found is that
[2845.17] Rob Thomson: if you do get that noise with the back frost you can get a signal back as long as you've got
[2851.09] Rob Thomson: something you'll get it back within a second if you lose it completely you'll get it back in about
[2856.93] Rob Thomson: four seconds now that's because there's no hand shaking going on there's no checksum there's no
[2862.37] Rob Thomson: well basically it's a simple protocol is dgi you will literally you know it's a good 15 seconds
[2867.49] AndyRC: once you've lost that signal to get a complete recy oh I didn't find that but I'm not I never
[2873.89] AndyRC: I never do long range so perhaps yeah that's why it is try to do a test of just literally
[2880.77] Rob Thomson: put your goggles on pull the battery plug it back in make sense
[2890.58] AndyRC: loss of your signal and then put oh right I've not had that at all I've had it where it's it's
[2897.46] AndyRC: gotten uh really laggy and therefore um I couldn't fly it but I never completely lost the signal
[2905.54] Rob Thomson: but I see the point of total failure where it's how far how far away did you have to go to get that
[2912.66] Rob Thomson: I was running on the higher power output behind the line of trees maybe about 500 meters away
[2919.78] Rob Thomson: would so so have you did you do the same test with analog analog I fly through there all the
[2925.54] Rob Thomson: time it's utterly crap but I punch out yeah you can punch out and you recover which is why I lost
[2932.5] Rob Thomson: my body because I came flying through there oh the signal's gone and I punched out so nothing
[2938.58] AndyRC: I think this goes back to what MJ was saying is you sort of have to know
[2943.62] AndyRC: the limits of the system then essentially um doesn't make it bad it just means we have to learn
[2950.18] AndyRC: a new way correct yeah yeah absolutely or or just don't fly behind a bunch of trees and bricks
[2957.46] Rob Thomson: so the best suggestion I got was if you ever have any video noise disarmed
[2971.22] Rob Thomson: which doesn't work clearly because I always have video noise
[2977.38] AndyRC: yeah yeah that's probably not a great idea do not find in when because this is something that
[2983.7] AndyRC: um that I've been finding is when when you start to see focus mode getting really bad
[2991.54] AndyRC: that's when I back off um you know when I'm when I know I'm pushing it if if I'm behind like a tree
[2998.74] AndyRC: or something I'm looking at the sides and as soon as they start getting blocky I back off and that
[3004.98] Tony: point I know I pushed too far yeah but I still wrote a right flight eight chords in a car park
[3011.7] Tony: circles and they're not sponsored by DJI that or anything like that oh well they are
[3029.7] Rob Thomson: yeah fading out on the screens it literally was just a hard block which makes me wonder
[3036.18] Rob Thomson: uh was it even noise maybe I was blasted out the sky by some irate FPV user down there
[3044.02] AndyRC: I've never had it like what what you said I just had it it goes I've never had it just stop
[3051.22] Rob Thomson: yeah man physically froze it was almost like a no no it's almost you can imagine just an SD card
[3056.74] Rob Thomson: suddenly just trashing itself and the video just froze yeah yeah you have to have good SD cards
[3063.7] AndyRC: with the DJI system too so it could have been something like that wasn't the point but I don't
[3068.9] Curry: have it anymore so so that's I guess that's one of the differences bite for us now I haven't flown
[3073.46] Curry: it yet but from what I've seen and again me and Robert talked about this we sort of suggested that
[3078.42] Curry: it was using sort of smaller packets of data and if it misses a packet rather than and if you're a
[3084.02] Curry: computer nerd I'd compare the difference between DJI and bite frost as TCP versus UDP one has a
[3090.58] Curry: whole hand shaking it has a recent protocol it wants to know where you are in the data stream
[3095.46] Curry: so it can jump back in whereas bite frost we think just sends your data if that data is incomplete
[3101.14] Curry: it's like we'll miss that bit out and you get that little bit of static line and then it starts
[3104.74] Curry: doing the data again so a little bit like analog as the signal degrades further and further you
[3109.78] Curry: get more noise and less data and you can really tell on a much more sort of linear fashion if your
[3116.58] Rob Thomson: signal's going is that better it's definitely I think better than variable latency but it's also
[3125.46] Rob Thomson: incredibly distracting and maybe maybe I'm just used to static because I don't notice it anymore
[3131.06] Rob Thomson: but I do notice the black dots at the given time we probably would just kind of see through it
[3138.18] AndyRC: what was interesting is on uh on one of blood's videos didn't you turn the power up
[3145.06] AndyRC: and to and you constantly got that noise and somebody suggested is it noise being created
[3154.5] AndyRC: by your ESCs that is constantly giving you that no definitely not definitely not that uh
[3163.46] Bludz: fat shark have come out and said that they uh something to do with the spectrum shoulder
[3169.54] Bludz: whatever the hell that is um but they said it it can yeah I'm not sure I don't know what what that
[3178.5] Bludz: means no I don't know what that means something to do with that maybe this is why I was questioning
[3185.14] Bludz: that it can be um it can be made worse by different antennas changing changing the antennas so they're
[3191.06] Bludz: getting us to try different antennas to try and help figure out what what's actually causing it
[3195.86] Bludz: sensitivity and something to do with the the uh the SMA or something I'm not like
[3203.94] NJ: do you think some of these companies use they have like a little program that's called technical
[3208.9] NJ: verbiage simulator and then you just put in ask it for an excuse and it gives you a random one
[3215.78] NJ: it just takes some kind of body part and then a technical word like okay uh yes
[3225.46] Jack: have you guys got anything um anything to wrap up uh we could probably talk about this for another
[3234.66] AndyRC: hour it's the issue isn't it it is easily easily I think it's fair to say if it's it's in its
[3242.66] Curry: infancy it's going to get interesting hopefully more people come along with more offerings
[3248.42] Curry: and that competition will kick in and everything will get smaller and better and the software will
[3254.02] NJ: get better etc perfectly put I think it's infancy is exactly the word if you want to
[3262.98] NJ: if you if you're going to live on the bleeding edge you're going to get the moral of the story
[3267.54] NJ: so if you want to spend the money and you may get the odd nick but it's worth it
[3276.18] NJ: it's all part of the part of the fun but um yeah I think I think that's right it's just um this
[3282.98] NJ: it's going to change weekly and and everybody you know there could be a new bit of firmware that
[3286.42] NJ: comes out for one of them next week and suddenly we've got a whole other discussion we sort of
[3290.42] AndyRC: changed that off the topic of the orca I think the orca guys are probably sitting there going
[3295.78] AndyRC: we've got these hd goggles there's a bunch of hd systems coming out we probably should sit on it
[3302.34] AndyRC: for a bit and see where this ends up that's what I think orca are doing probably no I think so I
[3310.9] Rob Thomson: don't think so they might be doing that but I've got a kickstarter type thing where I funded them
[3315.7] AndyRC: and they'll be sending very regular updates every week have you won the lottery or something you've
[3321.14] AndyRC: got everything I've composed a chicken sponge I should explain otherwise everything but pretends
[3329.7] Curry: it's for his business it's an elaborate tax dodge disclaimer I've already explained myself tell me
[3338.42] Bludz: about it you've got to justify it somehow that's why I sell a couple of frames now and again just
[3346.02] Bludz: so I can say I run a business and that's that's why I've gotta buy everything when it comes out
[3350.34] NJ: because we all do what we do to sleep at night let's put it that way
[3359.46] Jack: um I think we've reached our limit for the show also I've been working really hard I think we've
[3365.3] Jack: got a slate out screen as well uh so I've been trying to improve ldo a little bit but um thank
[3372.34] Jack: you guys uh you've been joined is has everyone covered everything no
[3381.7] Jack: all right no worries we'll we'll book you guys again thank you it's been
[3385.14] Jack: I've just been sad I've just I've really like just enjoyed the enjoyed the podcast for a while
[3392.42] Curry: if you enjoy having Jack not be able to speak then uh vote in yeah
[3396.66] Jack: well yeah and we'll have these guys back on again it's lovely to have nj back man he's been
[3402.9] Jack: staring in his eyes bless you mate bless you thinking how lovely his teeth are
[3409.62] Tony: they're all mine he brings on he brings on he's ovulating who says that
[3414.1] Jack: uh wanted to support the show but don't like patreon there's now the link is um
[3431.14] Jack: like stream labs forward slash ldo I think hang on let me find it I think we're gonna turn off
[3441.62] Jack: the um yeah because they take so much money yeah uh streamlabs.com forward slash let's drone out
[3448.42] Jack: if you want to donate we get 100 of that really help out the show because we're about two episodes
[3455.86] Jack: just under two episodes lacking a deficit of editing the show and the new editor has been
[3462.26] Jack: great we don't want to lose him because you guys are getting the shows on time um thanks for
[3468.26] Jack: everyone uh for coming on are you have been joined by nj tech take care guys see you again
[3475.14] Jack: Andy RC night night I've been practicing this blood FPV um
[3487.06] Jack: literally yes uh don't for sure uh Rob I'm not sure what that actually was
[3497.38] Jack: I hope things pick up for you thank you so much for coming on the show thank you for
[3501.22] Jack: learning stuff to Gary kitten it's great and I've been bright until I fly thank you very much guys
[3508.98] AndyRC: hello and you're listening to let's drone out the best drone based podcast on the internet we would
[3514.98] AndyRC: like to thank our patrons including licky dread and also art forkner and lastly that's it we've
[3524.66] Jack: only got two of the four patreons that donate don't have their names read out so
[3533.78] Jack: if you want your name read out go to patreon