=== Let's Drone Out — Episode 233 ===
Title: LDO 233 - Back to the Future Pt. 2
Recorded: 2020-02-13
Hosts: Andy, Neil "NJ Tech" Jones, Andrew "Frank" Hyams, Wayne "CurryKitten" Andrews, Tony "TheTonstar1" Marchant, Jack "Brightontillifly" Nash
Guest(s): Lee "Painless360" Schofield
Total audience: 2,320
Platforms: YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9BKbFGtPy4); SoundCloud (http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/feeds.soundcloud.com/stream/761165398-letsdroneout-ldo-233-back-to-the-future-pt-2.mp3)
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Painless360 is back on continuing a look back at the twentyteens with an eye to the future

[0.0] Jack: Hello and welcome to Let's Drone Out. The best, well the only UK FPV podcast
[6.8] Jack: sponsored by the lovely people from our Patreon. Patreon.com forward slash Let's Drone Out.
[12.88] Jack: In particular we'd like to thank these guys. Art Faulkner. Mikey Dredd. Wacky Wes. David Powell.
[24.24] Jack: Thank you guys. You're the best. We can edit our podcast. Thank you.
[59.22] Lee: Hello and welcome to LDO episode 233 called Back to the Future 2 and you'll find out why in a minute.
[67.14] Lee: For those of you that are expecting Jack again, he's not around. I think Tony's got an update
[71.46] Lee: of when he's finally going to be back. I'm sure you're all waiting for that to happen and I've
[75.78] Lee: been asked back to carry on with the chat that we did a couple of weeks ago. So I'm Lee Painless360
[81.86] Lee: and tonight we have Tony. Bonjour. I had to catch him while he was having a drink.
[90.98] Lee: We've got N.J. evening all. Curry Kitten. Hello. And Andy R.C. How do. And just before we get too
[100.66] Curry: deep in and forget, Curry could you do the disclaimer and then we're all legal. Indeed any
[106.02] Curry: views expressed by any guests on this show are personal and may not reflect the views of the
[110.42] Curry: host or any participant of the show. Thank you very much. Thank you. So yeah any problems there
[117.62] Lee: your own. So thank you for tuning in or listening on the podcast. The reason that I wanted to come
[124.82] Lee: back on is last time I was on we talked about the last 10 years of the hobby. Looking through the
[131.3] Lee: teens and the explosion of the multirotor stuff and we shared a few stories and you know talked
[136.66] Lee: about when we were young back in the day. But there was a couple of other things I particularly
[141.54] Lee: wanted to talk about and we just didn't get time because the show was only an hour and we were just
[146.66] Lee: kind of hitting our stride. So thank you to everybody that kind of wrote in and kind of said
[151.14] Lee: want the chat to continue. It's your fault I'm here. So the thing that I wanted to talk about
[158.66] Lee: and to chat to the gang is that I was looking to do a video around Christmas time about the stuff
[165.3] Lee: that I would recommend to people and the stuff that I use. I get lots of comments on my videos.
[171.14] Lee: I'm sure people like Curry and Andy you do as well about what goggles you recommend what radio.
[176.74] Lee: I only have this much money what you want to buy and it's a really tricky answer because if you
[181.94] Lee: have a beginner pilot that's never flown you're probably going to give them a different recommendation
[186.5] Lee: that somebody that's been flying for five or six years knows maybe fixed wing wants to move into
[191.3] Lee: multi-rotor or whatever things like FPV goggles are very subjective. So while I've got all these
[198.1] Lee: brains in one place I thought it would be a good thing to run around and just talk about the kit
[203.62] Lee: that we use today and also the kit potentially that if someone walks up to us at a show
[209.06] Lee: we would recommend things like radios goggles models other things as well. So I'll kick us off
[216.26] Lee: with the one that I get probably the most questions about which is radios. The one that I
[222.66] Lee: still probably use the most is my trusty Tarana. So I've had it five years it's probably had most
[229.54] Lee: of the switches replaced at this point upgrade the gimbals at least once. The only other radio
[234.82] Lee: that I've had in that I really liked was the T16 again OpenTX and those are kind of my two choices
[242.82] Lee: unless you want something simpler. Has anyone got any kind of other things that they love at
[247.94] Lee: the moment that they like to fly? Tony what do you fly with? Taranas always have five years old same
[254.34] Tony: as you. That's all I fly with I haven't tried anything else. I've seen there's a new kid on
[261.78] AndyRC: the block though. Yeah well I see MJ walking away but I know why he's walking away. Yeah because he's
[269.22] AndyRC: the new kid on the block. Well he's got a very different outlook on what controller to use so
[275.62] AndyRC: I imagine he's going to grab it. I think Curry I think you have as well haven't you? I've got
[281.38] Curry: an x9d like all of you guys and that was my go-to radio but for all the new quads I've got coming
[288.34] Curry: in I love the feel and the size of the x-light the sort of game controller size really does suit me.
[295.3] Curry: I had to say when I first got it it felt a bit sensitive until you get the slightly longer sticks
[300.26] Curry: and they make a world of difference so that sort of size of controller on quads really suits me.
[305.46] Curry: If I was flying things like planes where I might have an autopilot where I wanted lots of switches
[310.02] Curry: and stuff then I'd go back to sort of more the x9d but for quads I really do love my x-light
[315.54] Curry: and that sort of form factor which I guess MJ is getting something of a similar form factor
[321.46] Curry: to hold up to the camera. He was just having a secret wee and we didn't notice.
[325.78] AndyRC: He's try everything MJ. When we went to make a space I think you bought three transmitters
[331.14] NJ: did you MJ? Yes I might have done. I've got to say I'm with Lee when it comes to
[340.26] NJ: the one that I recommend for most people to go with. This is my now very customized
[345.7] NJ: Tyrannus x9d. I've done the antenna mod so you can put your own antenna on.
[353.3] NJ: This has had full paint job. It's had the speaker upgrade. I've done various things with switches.
[359.38] NJ: I've got the six position switch in there as well. This has had all kinds of work done to it and of
[365.14] NJ: course the short throw gimbal here as well. There's so much you can do with this and you can learn
[371.14] NJ: with it along the way. If that's your inclination is someone who likes to tinker and wants something
[378.02] NJ: that you can buy very cheaply and then add a lot of stuff to and mess with it. In the spirit of the
[384.26] NJ: hobby I still think that's great. In terms of my personal preference I'm a big fan of the x-light
[390.58] NJ: which is why I'm going to be I'm sure a big fan of the new TBS Tango which is on the way to me.
[396.02] NJ: I should point out as well I'm a pincher and a lot of people think that those controls are very
[404.58] NJ: very much only for people who fly thumbs and there's other people like Nick Burns
[409.86] NJ: who's also like me that loves the x-light and it pinches very comfortably so
[414.98] Lee: that's where I sit on it. If you like the smaller form factor the Tango 2
[422.42] Lee: as somebody that's had one since beginning December is beautiful for pinching. The way
[430.1] Lee: pretty much full-size gimbals in that really small form factor because the only thing that
[433.7] Lee: I don't like about the x-light is that because the gimbals are quite compact as Curry said you
[438.34] Lee: need the longer sticks otherwise it does feel like almost got a game controller but the gimbals are
[443.46] NJ: kind of full size. Have you gone for the pro or the standard one of the Tango 2? Well I was speaking
[450.58] NJ: to Wayne at TBS and asked him about which one to go for and he explained to me the difference
[456.02] NJ: is basically the folding sticks but the problem is it's got the word pro on it and unfortunately
[461.46] NJ: that little bit of marketing has worked its magic on me and therefore I've got no good excuse for
[469.86] Lee: getting it whatsoever. If you get the pro and you fold the sticks down if you know the big
[476.66] Lee: fat shark cases the ones that we never use that's perfect it just fits in there with the sticks
[482.9] Lee: down. Oh awesome. So yeah if I would get one now I'd have gone with the pro because those sticks
[489.22] NJ: are quite tricky. The portability is such a thing isn't it? The fact that you can just chuck these
[494.18] NJ: in your bag and your bag can shrink down from what it used to be with the amount of gear you
[498.42] NJ: had being able to just condense it. I think it's a big consideration is the size the convenience
[505.46] AndyRC: is a welcome thing of having a smaller form factor. You're just rubbing it in now because I've got the
[509.7] AndyRC: non-pro version and I just feel this big at the moment. It's important to mention we should say
[516.58] AndyRC: everybody talked about the X9D but the version that we are using is not available anymore.
[524.18] AndyRC: We've got the old version there's the 2019 version and they have removed the ability to
[531.94] AndyRC: have D8 natively. I think that's important to mention if we're talking about new people to
[538.42] Lee: the hobby. I like to think of it as classic as opposed to old. I'm slightly concerned about
[545.86] Curry: recommending Free Sky at the moment as much as I've loved their products because they seem to be
[550.5] Curry: absolutely hellbent on making everybody dislike them by this new upgrade of ACCST 2.0 which will
[561.46] Curry: get rid of the compatibility with party receivers and ditching D8 and the whole
[569.22] Curry: debacle with let's screw up TBS so Crossfire doesn't work on it properly. I haven't used a
[575.46] Curry: jumper but people that have seem to like it and I'm wondering if that's now the more
[582.66] Curry: better choice for OpenTX. Which jumper are you referring to? I don't know the T16.
[589.06] AndyRC: T16. I think it would be this one. That's the one. This is the T16 Hall Pro. However,
[600.1] AndyRC: it's not all roses in jumper either because they've parted ways and there's a company
[607.78] AndyRC: called RadioMaster who are bringing out the T16S which fixes some of the issues that the pro has.
[618.18] AndyRC: The sliders on the side don't quite have a center point. They fix that. They're changing from USB
[625.22] AndyRC: Mini to USB-C. That will be an interesting one. When I received the jumper
[634.42] AndyRC: TX, there's a mixed reaction because some people have had really bad QC issues and then others
[643.46] AndyRC: are like, no, it's the best thing ever. It's a really difficult one. I've got a little bit of
[650.1] Lee: insight into that. The guys at Jumper when they created the radio because the internals are very,
[656.1] Lee: very, very similar to the X10 which is one of the reasons that FreeSky kind of lost the plot a
[661.7] Lee: little bit over when the Jumper T16 came out and wrote those letters and whatnot.
[667.7] Lee: Now, HobbyPorter actually supported and worked with Jumper and HobbyPorter is the person behind
[674.02] Lee: this new version of the T16 that have taken a lot of the things that the T16
[682.02] Lee: didn't get quite right and QA was one of them. I know Ben, one of my friends at 3DXR got in about
[688.26] Lee: 10 of them to resell and he got stung on nearly every single unit had a QA issue.
[695.54] Lee: I think there was lots of issues. I think most of them from what I'm hearing seem to be sorted now.
[700.02] Lee: My T16, when the first one's out, has had three issues and I stopped making videos on it because
[707.78] Lee: I got uncomfortable about recommending it. Now, apparently that's all fixed and I'm waiting for
[712.5] Lee: the HobbyPorter one. Last I heard from Ben is not out. It's all been delayed because of China.
[719.46] AndyRC: March, yeah, March I heard.
[721.7] Lee: But once that's out, that might be the radio that I replaced my aging Toronto's. Once it finally
[727.86] Lee: goes bang. I don't want to go A-C-C-A-S-T-X-Y-Z. I quite like the idea of the color screen and
[737.46] Lee: apparently, hands up, those of you that have had flying D16, a servo glitch that have crashed a
[743.38] Lee: plane in the past five years. Anybody.
[746.98] Lee: No, because it doesn't exist.
[749.22] NJ: I haven't never flown anything with a servo off the D16.
[753.54] Lee: Well, there's this thing that's come out that apparently has been reproduced where
[757.46] Lee: one of the latest updates has been around the fact that there is this glitch, this problem
[761.22] Lee: in the firmware, which has required people to go out and flash their radios to fix it,
[766.02] Lee: which also stops it working with third-party devices. Now, you can take your own view on that.
[772.34] Lee: I personally think that's very suspect.
[777.14] Lee: Yeah, because as Karine says, at the moment, FreeSky aren't covering themselves in glory in
[784.1] Lee: terms of giving us pilots what we want and trying to do anti-competitive things to limit
[790.34] Lee: our ability to do stuff with other kits, which is kind of where they got all the excitement and love
[796.9] Lee: from in the early days. So what about, so FreeSky, okay, we've done that to death. Any other radios
[802.58] Lee: apart from FreeSky stuff that we'd recommend these days?
[805.78] AndyRC: And Jay, would you recommend your favorite transmitter?
[809.62] NJ: Okay, I haven't mentioned it, but yes, I do, although I've shown you my custom X9D,
[818.02] NJ: the radio I've flown the most, which is between that and the X-light in terms of form factor,
[822.9] NJ: slightly bigger, sort of between the two, but has the bigger gimbals. It's the Nirvana. Stop all
[830.42] NJ: the booing and hissing. I can feel the energy coming from the audience out there. But I actually
[836.58] NJ: really like the way that radio fly, the radio feels in terms of flying the switch locations.
[841.62] NJ: It works for me as a pincher and it's been solid. I exclusively use it. I don't use any of the
[847.54] NJ: FlySky protocols. I use it exclusively with the Micro TX, a crossfire setup. And I've really
[855.14] NJ: enjoyed that. Now, I did get to chat recently, well, I tried to chat recently with Warwick
[860.42] NJ: over at Underground FPV and it's the first time in a very long time that he's actually just not
[867.38] NJ: replied to my, so what's happening with Underground FPV? And it does seem things have gone very cold
[872.66] NJ: there. The official website is now, they've been bought out and it's now just the holding page
[878.66] NJ: with a blog spot and loads of adverts all over it. So I don't know what's happened there.
[882.58] NJ: But if you've got one of those and you haven't updated your firmware and everything works,
[887.14] NJ: what I'd suggest is don't touch it. If you do want to continue to update your firmware,
[892.26] NJ: which is what I did, it's now, believe it or not, FlySky that have the most recent firmware and are
[897.54] NJ: driving the most support for that radio. So even if you've got an actual Underground FPV one not
[902.74] NJ: bought from FlySky, go to FlySky for the latest and greatest firmware. And yeah, it's all working
[908.66] NJ: fine. But the future is, I'm not sure with that radio, it's not looking great right now.
[913.94] AndyRC: Yeah, my worry is that we've all gone around and said this radio, but if we, if somebody
[920.02] AndyRC: knew to the hobby said, I want a radio, what I'd say, I'd stay them away from that. Sure.
[927.22] NJ: What would we say, though? Is there one? I'd probably start them off. Honestly,
[934.18] NJ: if someone said, yeah, I think budget conscious, because obviously all these things add up pretty
[938.42] NJ: quickly. Yeah, I'd probably, I'd probably say X light. You know, you know, the X light that you
[946.5] AndyRC: have is discontinued and only does D6, only does D16, it doesn't do D8. Yeah, it's a real
[959.3] Curry: multi-protein model, if you're prepared to take it apart, so you can actually load it, which
[964.5] Curry: fixes the problem. But that, that's a bit of a, I am with NDI, I do love the form factor. Someone
[971.3] Curry: actually asked me that this very question, he was considering jumper versus a tango two. And my
[977.7] Curry: question was, well, how many quads are you going to have? And do you think you'll be able to equip
[981.06] Curry: them all with crossfire receivers? Because if that's all you're flying, and that's what you're
[987.94] Curry: going to do, then go with the tango two, because it's a great radio. I think the other thing to
[994.18] NJ: bear in mind as well is the hardest thing, I wish I'd be very objective with this kind of question,
[1000.34] NJ: but it's the hardest thing for people in our position, especially to be very objective about
[1004.66] NJ: being a beginner, because you know what you know. But when you're going into the hobby, and there's
[1009.46] NJ: just an absolutely overwhelming amount of stuff to learn. I mean, we step out of not keeping up with
[1015.7] NJ: with, with beta flight for five minutes, sorry, Curry. And he hates the way I say beta.
[1024.98] NJ: We step out of it for five minutes. And even with our sort of seasoned knowledge of that,
[1029.22] NJ: and I like to think I keep pretty on top of that, you can come in and suddenly something's,
[1032.66] NJ: well, you'll open it up and you'll go, where's that gone? What's, what's this thing now? And
[1037.06] NJ: if you're new to the hobby, there's so much to learn already. And I think something like the
[1042.82] NJ: in that kind of ilk, something that's quite friendly and approachable, and doesn't feel like
[1048.02] NJ: I'm just looking at Darth Vader's bathroom to operate. Just Yeah, it's a lot. It's hard for
[1056.58] AndyRC: I think it's a hard question for us to, you know, I tell people, I think, if you are completely new,
[1063.06] AndyRC: so you, so we're talking multi rotors, you've never done fixed wing, you probably everyone's
[1068.9] AndyRC: done an RC car. But if someone's coming to me and say, right, I want I want to get into this,
[1074.82] AndyRC: where do I start? I always say I think there's two routes, right? You buy a cheap toy. That's
[1082.42] AndyRC: like a Hobson because that's what I did. I bought like a 20 quid. But it comes with a transmitter
[1088.18] AndyRC: thing. If you can master that, then then you can progress on to something like I always recommend
[1095.3] AndyRC: after that, probably an Emacs tiny Hawk. But then then there's the other route of you can buy
[1103.46] AndyRC: a transmitter. So I think it's the fly sky, the I six, it's 35 quid, then you buy a seven quid dongle
[1112.1] AndyRC: and a simulator. And then you know, the simulators when it comes to FPV simulators are available for
[1119.38] AndyRC: free. Exactly. Well, that's where it's going. That's where it's going. Links in description.
[1129.22] AndyRC: So I think there's a lot to be because when I came from fixed wing, and I went to helicopters,
[1136.74] AndyRC: but I was like, there's no way I'm just gonna try and fly a helicopter. So I got luckily that my
[1144.02] AndyRC: transmit my Futaba transmitter that was 35 megahertz, it fitted one of these simulator dongles.
[1152.02] AndyRC: And I went on to I think it was real flight simulator, and learn how to fly helicopters,
[1157.86] AndyRC: then I bought a helicopter and I couldn't fly it. I was amazed, you know, although I did have that
[1162.42] NJ: fixed wing experience. I think the other thing just very quickly is the transmitters. It's not
[1168.98] NJ: even that long ago that the transmitters weren't actually that numerous in terms of what's
[1173.14] NJ: available. And they were considered more of a long term purchase than the way we consider our
[1177.54] NJ: goggles. Whereas now it seems there is an awful lot of transmitters coming out into the market.
[1184.26] NJ: So it's again, it's very subjective, isn't it? That person they want to make some long term
[1188.98] NJ: purchases or they just want to go as cheap as possible and see whether they like it.
[1192.82] NJ: Very tough and provocative question. Lee, I see what you did there.
[1196.1] Tony: I was liking Andy's video. What your video? Oh, yeah, he posted the radio.
[1206.1] AndyRC: That was a that was a brick that was yesterday I posted the transmitter that I learned to fly on,
[1212.9] AndyRC: which was released in 1985. Yeah, the way that you get the back off is you stick a penny in it and
[1219.46] AndyRC: turn a thing in the back comes up. There's probably a there's probably a apony back then.
[1224.42] AndyRC: Yeah, you know, I looked up though, do you know how much that transmitter costs in 1988?
[1229.62] AndyRC: 174 pounds, the brochure, I found the brochure, it the brochure itself had a payment plan for it.
[1237.7] AndyRC: That sounds like wow. That, you know, which is absolutely mine. But the reason why I say
[1243.3] AndyRC: the fly sky and is that, you know, it's most of the people that approach me, they want to do it
[1250.58] AndyRC: as cheap as possible. And I think I think if you pile a load of money into the hobby, and for
[1258.02] AndyRC: whatever reason, you just can't grasp it or you crash and, you know, you put a load of money down
[1264.82] AndyRC: the pan, then I think like buying a really cheap transmitter and a simulator is a good route,
[1269.86] AndyRC: because you can you can suck up 35 quid, but you can't suck up spending, you know, 130 quid on a
[1278.02] AndyRC: that's about how much the jumper is, isn't it? So yeah, I say this. So I think there's two routes,
[1284.26] AndyRC: there's the simulator and cheap transmitter route, if you can nail that then, you know,
[1289.62] AndyRC: and fly sky as well, you know, I think very underrated, very low latency. And the only
[1295.62] AndyRC: thing that it doesn't do well is telemetry. But trust me, there are a lot of people,
[1300.74] AndyRC: the amount of requests I get to say, please do more fly sky videos, because, you know,
[1306.58] Tony: there are people running on a tight budget. Yeah, I see Magdalena, who's come on the girls
[1312.1] Tony: night before she flew one of them, and she flew pretty far over a beach and stuff when we were
[1318.74] Tony: out on an FPV trip, and she was loving it. And I was like, Oh, my God, you're going so far. I don't
[1323.78] Tony: know if I'd go that far with mine, you know, and she was, let me just bring this to the end. This
[1331.3] Lee: is my very first proper grown up radio that I still have. And I can't get rid of it because,
[1338.66] Lee: well, it's probably full of asbestos or something, but it's a spectrum radio.
[1342.5] Lee: Now this, this was my first introduction to a grown up radio, and it probably cost two,
[1349.54] Lee: two odd times what a Taranis did. It's interesting that the all you guys have had a similar reaction,
[1356.1] Lee: which is, if we'd have asked this question 18 months ago, ah, good man, my DXA is next door.
[1364.02] Lee: If we'd have asked this question 18 months ago, we'd have all had, because I like the QX7 is a
[1368.74] Lee: really nice radio as well. Yeah, really good. Yeah, but all of these radios that we would have
[1375.86] Lee: probably without hesitation recommended, if you can cope with OpenTX, we're all a bit iffy about
[1381.54] Lee: now. I think there's an opportunity in the market, somebody come up and kick Free Sky's butt when
[1385.94] Frank: it comes to radios. A last little comment, because although I haven't had as much experience as
[1392.26] Frank: all the reviewers of different radios, I have had enough experience to know that my recommendation
[1398.1] Frank: to anyone would be, go find your local group and have a go on some because nothing beats.
[1405.62] Frank: There's details on paper that are important and your selection of a protocol and the ecosystem
[1410.02] Frank: that you're buying into and all of that. If it doesn't feel right in your hands, it's not going
[1414.66] Frank: to work. That's what she said. Well, I don't know if you know, there's a book that was making
[1431.62] Frank: its rounds a few months ago, probably just before Christmas called Invisible Women, all about how
[1438.42] Frank: technology has been designed without thinking about kind of the anthropometrics, the ergonomics
[1443.78] Frank: of women in mind. So that airbags don't incorporate any of this kind of area in their design.
[1451.3] Frank: They have to have flight suits and all sorts of things. I don't understand. Do you go on, Andrew?
[1457.54] Curry: Well, airbags, that's all I can say. Can we play airbags for fun bags? Is that allowed?
[1468.26] AndyRC: Do you know what? If there was someone to derail the show, I did not expect to know Yann B.
[1474.34] Frank: Well, he's throwing things out there and letting you derail the show.
[1476.98] NJ: I have no idea of something about female airbags, anthropometrics, all in the same sentence.
[1486.18] Frank: Well, this is my point. As Richard Warwick said in the chat, I think it was a little bit earlier,
[1493.54] Frank: was that he says he's got small hands and he really likes the jumper TASG that he's got.
[1500.1] Frank: I know there have been events where there have been sort of women that have been passing radios
[1506.5] Frank: around. I mean, it is a small sample size, but I've noticed a bit of a trend that the Taranis
[1514.1] Frank: is not as popular as like the X-Light or particularly the TASG just because it is
[1520.02] Frank: smaller. I wonder how much that has kind of affected the demographics. I mean, it's kind of
[1527.62] Tony: which one comes first. I'm so used to flying the Taranis, I'd be worried. It just feels right.
[1534.26] Tony: Everything's perfect for me and it's been six years of it. If I had to go over, I'd be like,
[1539.86] Tony: oh my God, it feels like I've got to learn how to fly again. I have the same problem, Tony. When
[1545.3] AndyRC: I fly the X-Light, it feels like my rates have changed. I know a lot of people lengthen the
[1550.02] AndyRC: sticks though, which sort of creates that almost like expo by lengthening the sticks because the
[1556.1] Frank: sticks are so short, but yeah. This episode was recorded in front of a live online audience,
[1562.74] Frank: downloaded and edited to make sense when it's played audio only, censored to please the iTunes
[1567.78] Frank: people, hosted on the internet, forwarded through to your podcast provider, downloaded, playing on
[1572.18] Frank: your device and is now playing in your ears. All thanks to our Patreons. Consider joining them and
[1577.94] Frank: you'll also get other online benefits. Find out more at patreon.com forward slash let's drone out.
[1584.82] Lee: The other one that I get the most comments about is Goggles. Now this is a really, I mean,
[1588.82] Lee: if you think radios is subjective, then we haven't talked about Goggles yet. And Goggles is one of
[1594.02] Lee: those really weird things. I mean, if you think that talking about Free Sky brings out the lovers
[1598.66] Lee: and the haters, try talking about things like the GGI HD system and Fat Shark. So if, you know,
[1606.1] Lee: if you're driving your car and you're in the middle of, you know, of some sweets, you don't want to
[1610.1] Lee: spit them all over your dash because you get wound up about the, pause the podcast now, because we've
[1615.38] Lee: got to talk about Goggles. That's the one that's the one that has a robot face. Let me put it next
[1624.5] NJ: to it just to the X9D so you can see the difference. No, it's much older, isn't it?
[1627.86] AndyRC: Interesting. Interesting. And I think, you know what, there's a group of people that don't get
[1633.14] AndyRC: enough credit for this. So way, way back, I went and built, you know, these multi-module,
[1641.62] AndyRC: all-in-one things, you had to build them and Deviation TX allowed that. It's interesting that
[1646.98] AndyRC: FR Sky have no issue with the Deviation TX versions of the jumper transmitters because
[1654.02] AndyRC: they don't run open TX and crossfire. You can run crossfire, but it's a pain. But what we're
[1660.26] AndyRC: saying, N.J., is we're moving on to Goggles because we've done 25, we've done 25.
[1664.98] AndyRC: And the only Goggles enjoy.
[1669.46] Lee: Right, so Goggle, who wants to go first with what they've got and what they'd like
[1674.5] AndyRC: and what they recommend? First of all, what I want to say about all of this is that the hobby,
[1683.3] AndyRC: it's very divided, you know, and, you know, humans as people, we like to have our little groups.
[1690.18] AndyRC: But I think, you know, so you've got the the Fat Shark side, you've got a DJI, you've got
[1697.86] AndyRC: FOS guy, you've got jumper. And, you know, at times where, like, we are kind of like under threat,
[1706.98] AndyRC: I think, you know, we should set all of those differences aside and just like,
[1711.94] AndyRC: all come together. So whether it's fixed wing you like, whether it's FPV, whether it's Haliz,
[1717.22] AndyRC: don't, you know, getting triggered about whether we're talking about DJI or that's not there are
[1725.3] AndyRC: bigger issues out there. So that's my stance on, you know, and for me, it's like, whatever you're
[1731.62] AndyRC: into, whatever works for you, I'm not going to go, oh, you shouldn't have that, you know what I mean?
[1736.5] AndyRC: But there are a lot of people who have that opinion. And I don't think we should. So that's
[1742.58] Lee: Andy, can you just hold that thought until we get to this next topic? Because I want to talk about
[1746.98] Lee: the next decade. And I think you've hit on a really important part about us as a hobby,
[1752.66] Lee: not dividing ourselves when we got enough people having a pop outside of the hobby. So yeah,
[1757.46] Lee: I think that's a really good point. So so well, I'll start then, as nobody has. So for me,
[1763.54] Lee: I currently I'm very lucky I tend to get the fat shark goggles for review. So I always have the
[1768.9] Lee: kind of latest and greatest. And I do genuinely think that the HDO twos are the best goggles that
[1774.66] Lee: fat shark have ever made. Lots of people would probably say that the HDOs should have been that
[1779.7] Lee: when they came out 90 months ago. But the HDO twos have fantastic field of view, independent focus,
[1788.26] Lee: just work beautifully. But going back to MJ's point about radios used to be an investment,
[1795.7] Lee: I think goggles definitely are. And goggles for me, when people ask, if I've got my goggles on me,
[1801.7] Lee: I'll let them have it, I'll power them up and let me have a game if it's playing back a DVR thing,
[1806.1] Lee: because even the shape of people's faces can make a massive difference. So something that fits my
[1811.62] Lee: face might not fit Frank's or vice versa. Or it might be that, you know, I mean, you and I,
[1817.7] Lee: Andy, you know, you've been around when we played for the HDOs, and you had to bring your diopters
[1821.86] Lee: and things. And, and some, some things support wearing spectacles. So there's loads of additional
[1828.66] Lee: questions when someone comes up and asks you to recommend one. But for me, I'm quite a fan of the
[1834.82] Lee: of the fat sharks for no other reason than when they break, you can get them fixed.
[1840.26] AndyRC: Yeah, it's a really good thing about them. The problem is, it's the the amount of money that
[1848.66] AndyRC: you have to pile into. But I always say, you know, it's worth spending it because I can remember
[1855.06] AndyRC: like having a pair of goggles that maybe three or four years old, and they were still repairing
[1861.54] AndyRC: them for free. Now other people will say, Oh, well, my sky zones never break. And, and I always say
[1868.34] AndyRC: back to that, yeah, but because we're we're sort of reviewers and YouTubers, we have sort of an
[1874.9] AndyRC: accelerated usage than everybody else. And from my findings, all goggles eventually break. So that's
[1882.9] AndyRC: why I choose fat shark even when sometimes they haven't been the best. So yeah, I agree with that.
[1891.86] AndyRC: But again, entering the hobby to say 500 quid without a module is really tricky. I'm I so I
[1901.7] AndyRC: think the the sky zones sit very popular. In fact, fat shark have got the attitude v five, which
[1908.9] AndyRC: sits in that. So I've actually got those to look at. So I want to check those out. But like you say,
[1916.34] AndyRC: I actually start all of my Google reviews with a disclaimer. And it's and it's the goggles are
[1922.74] AndyRC: really difficult to review because everybody I'm really not off right now. We've all got different
[1928.42] AndyRC: shaped faces. Our eyes are spaced apart differently. Our noses can be big or small, and we can be long
[1934.5] AndyRC: or short sighted. So the best thing to do is find a local group, whether that's on Facebook or a club
[1942.34] AndyRC: or go to a drone event. There's no excuses. There must be a drone event going on somewhere.
[1947.46] AndyRC: You can try on a bunch of different goggles, you know, and that that's how I would do it.
[1953.46] Tony: Another thing I'm worried about when my when my when they break, I'm like, what am I going to buy?
[1958.26] Tony: Well, I'm really thinking about going HD, but, you know, DJI, but when I tried yours on I felt
[1965.38] Tony: sick. So I'm gonna have to try outside when we meet. You mean that you're talking about the DJI
[1970.82] AndyRC: goggles? Yeah, I felt I felt sick because of the flashing lights. I think that was a lot to do.
[1975.78] Tony: I'm hoping it was just that because they looked unreal.
[1978.74] AndyRC: I can weigh in here, though, right? Because I did it. I've got a video that I'm working on.
[1984.26] AndyRC: I saw I attached the analog module to the DJI goggles, and I've got the HDO2s.
[1992.42] AndyRC: And if you want the best analog experience, then the HDO2s, I think are the way to go.
[2002.1] AndyRC: Now I'm talking the very best. However, if you are just average Joe like me, you know,
[2008.34] AndyRC: don't race, freestyle, then the DJI analog is okay. But what I did notice is I was surprised by this
[2019.46] AndyRC: because I didn't think there would be, but there was quite a difference in pitch quality
[2023.94] AndyRC: when I put the HDO2s on analog, and then put the DJI analog. They both recorded the same.
[2032.74] NJ: Despite technology difference there as well, as we're talking about, but yeah, I mean, my
[2041.38] NJ: preference is for years, a very long time now. I've been using the HD3s, which have been great.
[2053.86] NJ: Painless, you're up there somewhere. I'm sure you are. There you are, look.
[2058.66] NJ: We're all there, I think.
[2060.5] NJ: Yeah, I've got room. I've been sticking them off. But yeah, my HD3s have been,
[2065.3] NJ: they've just been flawless. I've never had an issue with them. I've never had send them off
[2069.46] NJ: for repair. They're just so well built. The shape has worked great for my face, as mentioned,
[2074.58] NJ: that's a subjective thing, and it helps if you can try. But these have been so
[2078.82] NJ: solid and reliable and a great experience. So I absolutely can't knock these. I have personally
[2085.62] NJ: made the transition to HD now, and I have the, this is why the module is missing in this,
[2090.34] NJ: because it's, I've got the UI-UOV adapter that allows you to run your analog into the DJI system.
[2098.42] NJ: But yeah, it is an expensive system, and much like TBS, but even more so with the DJI system,
[2103.7] NJ: the cost per quad when it comes to putting on an Air Unit or now a Vista is still,
[2108.9] NJ: it's still expensive. There's still a way to go, but that's certainly,
[2116.1] NJ: it's something I'm enjoying and I'm getting used to now. But again, as we said before,
[2120.58] NJ: it's just great to have so many options. So yeah, that's where I am.
[2125.86] Lee: Wayne, sorry, Andy, go on. I was just just conscious that Wayne hasn't waited in for a
[2130.98] Frank: little while. I was just going to say my biggest worry about the DJI stuff is, you know, what's
[2135.22] Frank: going to happen when there's a version two? Does that mean that like it's still supported? Because
[2140.26] Frank: it's not, you know, we're basically working on PAL and 5.8 gigahertz, just FM modulation. So it's
[2148.1] Frank: basically a very open, very analog protocol at the moment for analog. But when you go to DJI and
[2155.86] Frank: it's a closed protocol, then what's going to happen? I mean, DJI's history of support is pretty,
[2161.38] NJ: pretty good. So I'm not, I'm not too worried. But then we consider things to be old last week.
[2166.98] AndyRC: A lot of people complained that they really wanted the DJI goggles to work with the Mavic
[2178.82] AndyRC: and they don't. And I know that's a big complaint of them. But it's kind of like a different sector
[2183.78] AndyRC: of the hobby. And that's what DJI do, isn't it? They're a money making machine as well, as well
[2188.34] AndyRC: as a very innovative, innovative, of course, but yeah. My experience actually as a reviewer is
[2198.98] Curry: quite different because no one ever sends me goggles. So my proper goggles I've had to actually
[2203.78] Curry: pay for from my own money. No one sends me them. I pay for them. You've had some skies there once,
[2209.54] Curry: but I've got the odd box goggles. And I think it's a bit like Andy mentioned about the radio that
[2214.82] Curry: there's a couple of ways to go. You can have a pretty good experience spending 30 quid and
[2219.22] Curry: getting yourself a basic pair of box goggles that to start off with. And you'll have a pretty good
[2223.78] Curry: flight that just I find the more inconvenient carry around rather than anything else. I've been
[2228.98] Curry: flying on Fat Shark Dominator 3 for years and years. And I only upgraded from upgraded from
[2234.98] Curry: my original Dominators, because it had an inbuilt DVRs. And it's one of those things where it is a
[2240.66] Curry: lot of investment. And if they're not broken, it's a very bitter pill to think, oh, I must upgrade it
[2245.94] Curry: because the little incremental increases in quality aren't that great. Now, if I went from Dominator
[2252.58] Curry: 3s all the way up to HGO 2s, I'd really probably notice the difference quite a lot. But yeah,
[2257.22] Curry: right now I'm just my experience is still very good. If you guys went back to them after using
[2263.94] Curry: your sort of latest and greatest, you should probably think, well, the field of view is not
[2266.82] Curry: very good and the display is not very good. But yeah, not as much as you think. Not as much as
[2272.74] Curry: you think, Wayne. I must have put over a thousand hours of flying into those goggles now. And aside
[2278.34] Curry: from having to replace the sort of foam eyepiece about four times, because it just keeps getting
[2284.98] Curry: like sweating to death and go away, it's been absolutely perfect. So yeah, as far as recommending
[2291.38] Curry: goggles, I'd say like if you start off and you've got a budget, check out a pair of box goggles
[2295.54] AndyRC: because they'll get you in the air and you'll enjoy it. Which box goggles, Wayne? EVA 100Ds?
[2301.3] Curry: Yes, because I think those are the ones that were like the Toby Rich ones, which were a copy of
[2305.14] Curry: them, which were pretty comfortable and worked quite nicely. And then after that, I would say
[2309.22] Curry: check out Fat Shark because they make really good quality kit. Well, the other one that I would
[2313.78] Lee: recommend is the Quantum box goggle. It's the Hobby King dead. I don't know what's going on
[2322.1] Lee: with Hobby King at the moment. Nothing ever seems to be in stock. But if you can get them,
[2325.78] Lee: those Quantum goggles, they even did a diversity version with DVR in. And for the money,
[2331.22] Lee: they were amazing. And you can still wear spectacles with them. So even if you have
[2334.74] Lee: astigmatism or whatever, I used to recommend them all the time. It's just a shame that it's
[2339.54] AndyRC: trickier to get hold of these days. Well, they were my first goggles. But isn't the stock issue
[2344.66] AndyRC: because of the coronavirus? Or does it predate that? I think it's going back a little bit further
[2349.86] Lee: than that. If that's what they're saying, I think that that's a tough excuse.
[2357.46] NJ: The EP800D, I must say as well, even though it's a long, long time since those of us that did a
[2364.26] NJ: review on it. And I know a lot of people I recommend it to, not one person has ever come
[2369.22] NJ: back and said, I wish you hadn't recommended that. They've all enjoyed having that as a first goggle.
[2374.18] NJ: And I still will take the base of that as a second screen to hand people.
[2380.58] Curry: This is the Toby Rich, which was apparently a copy of it. But I have this on the desk all the
[2385.7] Curry: time. When I'm setting something up, I just have it, I turn it on, I make sure my OSD looks good
[2390.66] Curry: and my frequencies are good. And yeah, it's really easy. Because where I wear diopters,
[2395.86] Curry: if I wanted to show someone my goggles, they'd be like, oh, man, I can't see a thing. What's
[2399.54] Curry: going on? So having something like this to carry around, if someone comes up, I say, oh, just have
[2403.38] Curry: a look through that and you'll see what's going on. Really handy. There is something really
[2406.9] AndyRC: important to know about recommending the EV800Ds. Since all of us reviewed that very first version,
[2414.34] AndyRC: just as Eshin do, they changed the DVR. And if you lose complete signal, then the DVR file gets
[2422.66] AndyRC: corrupted and you can't use it. So make sure if you do have the EV800Ds, which have diversity,
[2430.74] AndyRC: I suppose you could say for the price, the fact that they've got a built in DVR is good.
[2437.62] AndyRC: But if you go out of range, and I got quite a lot of static, but I could still see a picture. However,
[2446.5] AndyRC: when I got home, the file was corrupt. And so that's something to bear in mind with those.
[2453.3] AndyRC: But I'd still recommend them despite that, because of the price value and everything like that.
[2458.42] Lee: Andy, good to know. Now, there is one other thing. I'm just conscious we've been going
[2461.78] Lee: for nearly 40 minutes and we only got through two products.
[2464.98] AndyRC: Well, you have to come back then, Lee, aren't you? Part three,
[2469.06] AndyRC: they give back to the future part three.
[2471.3] Lee: Yeah, they did, yeah. We're all off to go, but wasn't that the one where they're in the Wild West?
[2475.62] Lee: Yeah, I wasn't much of that one.
[2478.58] Lee: It wasn't the best one, which is, I have a question for Andrew slash Frank.
[2483.62] Lee: Frank, I've seen loads of weird stuff flying around about Mini Airshow this year.
[2489.86] Lee: Lots of weird stuff.
[2491.86] Lee: What's going on, brother? Because do I need to book my hotel or what? Because I know that you're
[2498.18] Lee: normally dead involved in this. And one of the reasons that it runs so fantastically well is
[2502.74] Lee: because you dedicate so much time to it, which thanks for that, because we just all roll up and
[2506.74] Lee: have a lovely time. But I've seen loads of things about the BMFA getting involved and
[2512.82] Lee: loads of different stuff. So do I need to book my hotel or not?
[2517.14] Frank: Well, there is definitely an event happening at Pop'em on the 16th and 17th of May.
[2522.9] Frank: It will have some flying and some camping. But there's a lot of details still being
[2531.46] Frank: discussed and organized and set up at the moment. So at the end of the last event,
[2539.86] Frank: it was kind of decided that there would be a much bigger models and all sorts of other things
[2549.38] Frank: that they wanted to do, make it a much bigger event, scaling up stuff, using a massive circus
[2555.62] Frank: tent that they have there for the rest of May. So keep that there and just have a much bigger
[2560.58] Frank: event. Because it was becoming a much bigger event, they decided that they didn't want to
[2567.3] Frank: put all this kind of big expensive event in the hands of someone who is a volunteer and has a
[2575.3] Frank: day job and is otherwise, you know, doesn't have a contract with them to, you know, I could just
[2581.94] Frank: walk away and they could be left behind. So they decided that it starts off in the very beginning
[2588.82] Frank: with they were running the event. And I would just help out kind of giving them some pointers
[2594.42] Frank: and contacts and that kind of thing. So that's been going on. And they realized that there's
[2601.3] Frank: quite a lot of work involved. And this is a shock because? Well, because I've done it and
[2610.66] Frank: had a day job. So how hard can it be? So they've realized that actually, there's quite a lot
[2623.22] Frank: involved in it. And it just so happens that the BMFA southern area, so the BMFA kind of split into
[2633.94] Frank: kind of areas where they've got all the clubs. And so the southern area has an annual gala,
[2639.46] Frank: but the way they usually have the gala isn't working out. So they were looking for a venue.
[2645.86] Frank: Popem were looking for maybe some people more kind of experienced in larger events.
[2653.22] Frank: And so they decided always that I think that's what's going on. Again, I'm not involved in this
[2659.78] Frank: at the moment. I'm just waiting to be told things to post out on Facebook and stuff. So
[2665.38] Lee: right. So at the moment, it's a it's a nothing to do with you. BMFA are involved in doing stuff
[2672.9] Lee: because last time I saw something online about you need a B-cert to fly at the event in charge.
[2678.9] Frank: So because it was, again, this plan may be changing. I think they may have looked at it
[2685.46] Frank: and decided that actually, there's more involved in a normal event. But to make a bigger event
[2691.22] Frank: with fewer people is maybe doing it at the last minute is maybe not the best idea. So it might be
[2696.82] Frank: scaled back down to kind of what it was at the previous event. So but the plan was that they
[2706.66] Frank: were going to do it on one of the man runways. But because it's on the man runways, all the
[2713.22] Frank: where we were flying last time was going to be the car park. And that would mean basically that
[2719.06] Frank: there'd be nowhere to fly during the night, you know, in the evening, after hours, after the public
[2724.26] Frank: are gone, because that would still be car park. And so there was kind of basically a point where
[2731.7] Frank: they were like, there's gonna not be flying at night, apart from in the tent. And also because
[2738.66] Frank: it's under the a lot of this is down to insurance. At the end of the day, like insurance is really
[2745.38] Frank: expensive. It's really hard to get we were really lucky that they covered the insurance for the
[2750.9] Frank: event, previous couple of events. And I think they've kind of realized that if they work with
[2758.98] Frank: the BMFA, they can get BMFA insurance to cover the event for base 16 three. So that's a lot cheaper
[2766.9] Frank: than lots of money. And so it makes a lot of sense that if you're running a big event,
[2772.74] Frank: having the BMFA involved and covering the insurance makes it a lot easier. And so but
[2780.26] Lee: but but is it considering that you've built that entire thing over the last four or five? Sorry,
[2785.22] Lee: I'm a bit incredulous about this last four or five years. And all of the it's been built on
[2790.9] Lee: the fact that all of us who don't the majority of us don't have visa, I know people like Andy RC
[2796.26] Lee: stuff do because they've done the hobby before. But but we all get together. So it's it's a and
[2801.86] Lee: for those of you actually, is it worthwhile just explaining what the mini air show has been for
[2806.26] Lee: those of you that haven't been to one. So so and you just want to take just a quick 30 seconds
[2811.7] Lee: explain what it has been historically so we can understand why we're all so surprised. So it's
[2817.46] Frank: been going for the past five years as an annual event in early May, with a bunch of mainly FPV
[2824.82] Frank: years, but also line of sight model aircraft, tiny whoops, flying wings, X class, all this kind of
[2832.82] Frank: thing. Just getting together. In the beginning, we had all throughout all the events, we've had high
[2841.38] Frank: hopes of having it as a kind of public facing, showing off FPV, rather than kind of all the
[2850.42] Frank: other events that are very kind of, you know, this, these are the models and they are far away. This
[2856.02] Frank: is kind of involving people in it and getting them to see FPV, which isn't shown a lot of events,
[2862.1] Lee: from the racing. So it's the devil's work, isn't it FPV, along with playing? Well,
[2869.22] Frank: to be honest, having dealt with organizing, showing FPV frequencies, I am inclined to agree
[2875.86] Frank: it is the devil's work. So there is that. But yeah, it's, it's, this is maybe a bit more FPV
[2887.94] Frank: doesn't scale well, they need this to scale for it to make sense. They're a business too. And so
[2894.66] Frank: they're making, looking to make a bigger event. And that just doesn't really work. So
[2900.9] NJ: you have answers like the, are you doing number seven?
[2905.54] NJ: Like the political answer we got there, which is beautifully put.
[2909.54] NJ: Should we book our hotel room or not? We still need a big event.
[2917.62] Frank: Okay, maybe this is one to add to your list, along with, you know, wings and wheels and
[2922.42] Frank: Western Park and all the rest. Head to corn isn't happening this year. So if you're going
[2928.82] AndyRC: to head to call, maybe this is one you want to check out. Are we all going? Because that's the
[2933.62] AndyRC: thing for me, if you guys are going, I'm going, if you guys aren't going, I'm not going. So that's,
[2939.46] Lee: that's the thing for me. I'm already going to think of something like the Western, I love the
[2944.26] Lee: Western thing. And you know, Western Park is really good fun. I don't need to go to another
[2948.58] Lee: mini Western at the other end of the country. One of the reasons I go to the mini air show
[2955.3] Lee: is to meet all you guys and meet everyone else in the hobby. It's the community thing I'm bothered
[2960.5] Lee: about. So if we all went, it would probably, we still have a laugh, but part of having a laugh is
[2965.7] Lee: over messing about after, you know, the flying, the tiny whoops and the night flying and, and just
[2971.14] Lee: the general boogering about, which is what the fun part of the hobby will still be happening.
[2977.14] Curry: So we've put in fireworks on quadcopters and flying them around. Is that okay? Or
[2983.54] Lee: is that frowned upon now? Is that covered by the BMFA insurance?
[2987.14] Frank: And how I've been called, who's the flight director, and then I'll speak to them about it.
[2992.18] AndyRC: You know, speaking of Western, though, it makes me wonder how they're going to handle it. Because
[2998.26] AndyRC: historically, when I went to Western Park and got the FPV line, I expected that everybody would
[3004.66] AndyRC: have to have like a B-cert or something like that. And I was like, no, no, there's no one's
[3011.78] AndyRC: got anything. So I wonder if that's going to cause an issue at Western this year. Oh, by the way,
[3017.06] AndyRC: Lee, the fact that you've just said you're going to Western now means I'm going to Western.
[3021.22] AndyRC: Because I don't think these guys will probably come to Western. Right, guys?
[3026.82] AndyRC: I don't know if I've ever said that to date.
[3031.78] AndyRC: You're coming to Western, Andy?
[3033.94] Frank: Well, if trends are anything to go by, then yeah.
[3037.94] Frank: Well, you've been there the last two years, haven't you, Andy?
[3040.66] AndyRC: I've been, yeah, two, three years, something like that.
[3043.22] AndyRC: Well, then it's a definite yes for me.
[3045.7] Tony: Well, then if you two are going, then I've got to go.
[3048.66] Tony: I'm going to lie.
[3052.18] Frank: It's funny, because even at Western, we don't fly.
[3057.3] Lee: We just fly out and chat.
[3058.58] Lee: It's the community just hanging out, which is the fun part. I just don't want to do it while
[3064.98] Lee: loads of elderly guys talk about glow engines behind me and look down their nose at us because
[3074.1] Lee: we do FPV.
[3075.38] Frank: If it changes in mind at all, I'm kind of putting my flag in the ground and taking over
[3082.5] Frank: the marquee as our spot.
[3085.38] Frank: And there's been talk amongst the Mini Airshow volunteers of organizing a community build
[3094.34] Frank: to compete with other things that are going on.
[3097.7] Frank: So there might be something interesting going on.
[3101.86] Tony: People in the chat are saying do a mini LDO show.
[3104.98] AndyRC: Yes, I've been saying this from the very beginning.
[3108.66] AndyRC: But of course, we have to respect the people that built up Mini Airshow.
[3112.18] AndyRC: The thing is, I guess they may have less respect.
[3115.22] Tony: They will turn up because they're part of LDO anyway.
[3117.94] Tony: Well, there you go.
[3119.54] Frank: Funnily enough, there are, I do have a list of sites that I will be going to when the weather
[3128.1] Frank: improves.
[3137.54] Frank: But I do also have a lead on a potential very interesting venue for the LDO fifth
[3145.3] Frank: anniversary at the end of August.
[3146.98] Frank: But I won't.
[3148.5] Frank: Five years.
[3150.1] Tony: Has it been five years?
[3151.54] NJ: Can we call it LDO, my God.
[3157.46] Lee: Right.
[3158.34] Lee: So with nine minutes to go, that kind of brings me beautifully to the last bit and to kind of
[3162.02] Lee: pick up on what Andy Arcee was talking about because it kind of leads on from the conversation
[3166.66] Lee: that we've just had about the fact that these kind of events, when some of these organizations
[3172.82] Lee: get involved, they actually fundamentally unpick what has made the event popular historically.
[3179.54] Lee: But also, I touched on it last time we were on the show.
[3184.34] Lee: I know of a number of clubs that are affiliated with, it just happened to be the BMFA in this
[3189.14] Lee: case.
[3189.38] Lee: I'm not really knocking the BMFA, but the clubs, although their membership is declining,
[3195.62] Lee: and last time Andy made a joke about that.
[3201.06] Lee: I'm going to meet myself.
[3202.1] Lee: I'm going to meet myself.
[3204.18] Lee: Don't do it.
[3204.74] Lee: Don't do it.
[3206.02] Lee: But I know of clubs who have like 13, 20, a very small number of people that part the club
[3213.22] Lee: who have access to a flying field, and we're all on this podcast complaining all the time
[3217.94] Lee: that we struggle to find places to fly.
[3220.42] Lee: It just seems to me that, going back to Andy's point about, we should all just
[3225.62] Lee: get on with it.
[3226.34] Lee: And if somebody likes another part of the hobby, then that's all right,
[3229.54] Lee: as long as nobody's getting hurt.
[3231.78] Lee: There just seems to be a real disconnect at the moment between the legacy flying clubs
[3235.46] Lee: that do glow, and those kind of bits and pieces, and the modern hobby.
[3239.3] Lee: Has anyone got any ideas how we can try and address that balance?
[3242.58] AndyRC: Well, I think I know why that is.
[3246.02] AndyRC: It's because we are, I hate to use this term, but we are woke.
[3250.02] AndyRC: We're on the internet.
[3251.22] AndyRC: We are live streaming.
[3252.74] AndyRC: And the people who are sitting there with, you know,
[3255.7] AndyRC: clean up off the castor oil from their glow engines are not on YouTube figures.
[3261.78] AndyRC: You know, so they've only got poor that, like, you know, to take their side, poor them,
[3268.74] AndyRC: they've only got the media to go off, or drones are bad, they close down Gatwick.
[3276.02] AndyRC: Whereas if you took some time, you know, I mean, to go on YouTube and just search,
[3282.98] AndyRC: you'll find out that we are not the people that the media portrays.
[3288.26] AndyRC: So I think that's the problem, you know, there's, there's a disconnect in technology,
[3293.22] AndyRC: you know, my folks, they don't have mobile phones, they don't really go on the internet,
[3300.82] AndyRC: to the extent that we do and find out the latest and realize that it, you know,
[3306.5] AndyRC: what's that, how are you woke?
[3309.38] AndyRC: You only go out for a try.
[3312.9] AndyRC: I'm not, I'm not getting into that, Jack.
[3315.7] AndyRC: Jack did something.
[3316.5] AndyRC: No, I'm not getting into it.
[3317.86] Lee: No, no, stay on, stay on target.
[3320.18] Lee: Carry on.
[3323.3] AndyRC: Yeah, I think I think it's a difficult one, because you, you know, those people aren't
[3328.66] AndyRC: going to all of a sudden invest in a computer and get the internet.
[3333.3] AndyRC: And so is it going to be, I'm trying to try to word it in a way, is it just going to be
[3340.02] AndyRC: that our generation takes over and takes over these, because I'm, I'm in two clubs.
[3348.1] AndyRC: And, you know, eventually someone else is going to have to fill the places of the people that
[3354.66] Lee: can know about dead men's shoes.
[3357.54] AndyRC: No, what I'm saying is what I'm saying is right.
[3360.74] Tony: Are they shoes or sandals?
[3364.34] Tony: Loafers.
[3367.06] AndyRC: I should get older.
[3368.26] AndyRC: All right.
[3368.66] AndyRC: Here's a nice way to put it.
[3369.7] AndyRC: As you get older, it's more difficult to fly, especially if it's cold.
[3374.5] AndyRC: So those people might not turn up to the club.
[3376.74] AndyRC: They may even just give up because, you know, mobility reasons, whatever.
[3382.1] AndyRC: I don't know.
[3382.9] Tony: To be fair, I joined the club a couple of years ago and there's, there's about three or four
[3389.22] Tony: older lads, older guys in my club.
[3391.94] Tony: And they were into FBV and they enjoyed it.
[3394.34] Tony: So yeah, there's a few out there.
[3398.34] Curry: This is it.
[3399.3] Curry: What we will make fun and say both so glow engine sandals and they will say can't fly
[3406.58] Curry: makes the computer do it all.
[3407.94] Curry: But if you put the two groups together, if you can get together with BFMA traditional flyers,
[3414.02] Curry: you will find there's an awful lot in common.
[3416.82] Curry: You know, I don't fly glow engines, but I love watching these scale things.
[3420.26] Curry: And once these old guys will learn that you're not flying one of these camera drones that
[3426.26] Curry: does itself and you have to move the sticks and you've built it yourself and you have to
[3429.94] Curry: solder things in and that this crossover actually happens.
[3434.66] Curry: And one of the places that used to happen was at Mini Air Show where the traditional
[3438.42] Curry: flight line talked to the FBV guys and there's some meshing got together.
[3442.58] NJ: Yeah, I think that is the crux of the problem, though, isn't it?
[3446.34] NJ: The I agree that those two entities can exist in the same place and have a lot in common and talk
[3452.82] NJ: about a lot of the same things and get on like a house on fire.
[3454.98] NJ: But how do you do that if you can't get in the door in the first place where multi-rotors are
[3459.7] NJ: completely shut out of clubs?
[3461.06] NJ: And even, you know, I have I've had that experience just with helicopters, let alone
[3464.74] NJ: multi-rotors where I can't know clubs.
[3467.46] NJ: I've got four, three or four clubs around me and none of them will allow helicopters.
[3472.1] NJ: So I wouldn't even ask the question about multi-rotors.
[3475.3] Curry: And the answer is just to sit in the car park and fly your quad and buzz around the plane.
[3479.38] NJ: Yeah, that's the runway hover on the runway.
[3484.18] NJ: That's the one they hate.
[3485.22] NJ: Just sit there and hover.
[3487.06] Lee: But going back to Curry's point, he's absolutely right.
[3491.06] Lee: Andy and I were involved in a thing for Channel 4 and we there was lots of pilots on there who
[3497.38] Lee: had never done FPV and part of the thing was giving them an FPV experience.
[3502.02] Lee: And I think with one exception, all these pilots that would have thought that FPV with
[3506.5] Lee: the work of the devil tried it on its fixed wing FPV, tried it and took the goggles off
[3511.62] Lee: and were just blown away and didn't realize how fantastic it was.
[3515.62] Lee: And I have yet to put a more mature line of sight fixed wing pilot through an FPV experience
[3524.1] Lee: and not have them come out the other side with an appreciation for part of the hobby
[3528.42] Lee: that they could have dismissed because it's part of the devil's work.
[3531.78] Lee: And I think maybe that's the answer.
[3534.66] Lee: Maybe we should try a little bit harder to get in the door with these places and maybe
[3540.34] Lee: use some of these shows to spread the love around and give these guys a go.
[3543.78] Lee: Because actually, we're not all hooligans.
[3546.26] Lee: We're not all criminals.
[3547.38] Lee: We're not all doing stupid stuff with FPV.
[3550.02] Lee: And there's a whole part of the hobby, the modern hobby that they don't get involved in.
[3554.82] Lee: And similarly, there's loads of people trying to get into the hobby looking for the kind of
[3558.82] Lee: advice that we've been talking about on the show.
[3561.78] Lee: And there is lots of experience in these clubs.
[3565.78] Lee: Some of it isn't as relevant as it used to be.
[3568.02] Lee: But there's a lot of common sense there that can help people avoid the old common mistakes.
[3572.9] Lee: Have you got problems like that nearly?
[3576.42] Lee: I'm trying to get involved with a couple and I'm struggling.
[3582.26] Lee: And that's the issue that I've got because at the moment,
[3585.7] Lee: and actually Clive FPV was talking about in the live comments,
[3589.38] Lee: a lot of them have blanket regulations, which say no helicopters, no FPV.
[3596.18] Lee: And so it's very difficult when you've got that kind of laid their stall out,
[3602.74] Lee: that black and white to kind of get in the door and say, actually, you know what?
[3606.74] Lee: You've kind of missed the point.
[3608.02] Lee: And I hope that people like the BMFA that a lot of these clubs are affiliated to.
[3614.02] Lee: And I'd love to, I don't know, maybe we could try and get somebody from the BMFA
[3618.82] Lee: on to have a chat with or whatever, or, you know, try and change their.
[3623.14] Lee: So next time I see a BMFA magazine, there could be a multirotor or a pair of FPV goggles in it
[3628.42] Lee: if it didn't immediately combust because it's the work of the devil.
[3631.86] AndyRC: Yeah, we've had Big Andy on this show, haven't we?
[3635.38] AndyRC: That's his official name.
[3636.18] Frank: I've had Andy and Dave on a few times.
[3639.94] Frank: And yeah, I mean, the magazine is always a recurrent complaint.
[3645.3] Frank: But, you know, they say if you send an article in, they will print it.
[3649.22] Frank: Every article that's in there is just being written by a volunteer and sent in.
[3653.38] Frank: So it's, you know, it's open for anyone to write a playlist.
[3657.38] Curry: They were also quite keen to point out that they don't dictate the rules to the
[3661.78] Curry: clubs about what should happen.
[3663.14] Curry: But they were saying that the most common new affiliated clubs were because people
[3668.9] Curry: got together for drone racing and stuff and they were making their own clubs.
[3673.3] Lee: Yeah.
[3673.7] Lee: Well, I know you had Nij on last week and he's doing something with the WOOP stuff,
[3680.98] Lee: isn't he, to try and set up new places for people to fly.
[3685.3] Lee: So maybe that's an alternative for those who need to find a place to go and have some
[3689.62] Lee: fun with your friends.
[3690.66] AndyRC: I think you said you were involved in that somehow, Lee.
[3693.14] AndyRC: Is that right?
[3693.78] AndyRC: Or was he just name dropping?
[3695.46] Lee: No, no, I'm talking to him about doing some stuff with that yet to determine how
[3700.18] Lee: that's all going to work.
[3701.22] Lee: But it's it could be a cute, you know, going back to your thing about getting
[3704.34] Lee: the hub sound as a cheap and easy way to get into it and using like a WOOP as a
[3708.5] Lee: similar style thing.
[3709.46] Lee: That's that's the kind of thing I'm excited about because it lowers the barrier for
[3712.98] Lee: entry.
[3714.98] Lee: Just conscious we're up on the hour already.
[3718.98] Lee: Do you know, it's quick.
[3720.98] NJ: It's just a quick thought just sprung into my head.
[3724.74] NJ: I'd be totally afraid if I knew there were a bunch of clubs that were at least open
[3730.58] NJ: to having someone like myself or whoever to go along with a load of gear and just be
[3736.42] NJ: in the corner and say that any of you guys want to come over.
[3739.62] NJ: Let me just give you an experience one day and then I'll disappear again.
[3742.74] NJ: You can all have a think about it and I'll show you some HD.
[3745.86] NJ: I'll show you some analog.
[3747.06] NJ: I'll show you some works and how small, safe and quiet they are.
[3749.86] NJ: And then I'll show you the noisy stuff.
[3751.54] NJ: Just take a load of gear and just see what that little spark might do inside the club
[3756.82] NJ: in terms of seeing who we are and what we represent.
[3759.22] NJ: And maybe that's something we could...
[3761.86] NJ: That feels like something maybe that you could approach the BMFA about and say,
[3766.5] NJ: look, here's an idea.
[3768.58] NJ: Why don't you reach out to some clubs?
[3770.18] NJ: Because you know all the clubs and you're affiliated with all these clubs.
[3772.34] NJ: Why don't you see if they're interested in just letting a few of us come and go around
[3776.34] NJ: and show this stuff to existing clubs that may just know nothing about it?
[3780.9] NJ: Because they don't like change, but they might be open to it.
[3784.98] Lee: Oh, oh, oh.
[3785.78] Lee: Again, open invitation for me in the Northwest.
[3789.78] Lee: If there's any club in the Northwest that's watching this,
[3791.94] Lee: that's want me to come along to one of their meetings and bring some of the FPV stuff
[3795.86] Lee: to either do a talk or do a show and tell or give those kind of things.
[3800.1] Lee: I am more than happy to do that without any strings attached just to help broaden the hobby.
[3807.38] Lee: But to be fair, I think most of us would probably do that given the opportunity.
[3810.26] Lee: Yeah, absolutely.
[3811.62] AndyRC: I'm hoping to do that with a club that I've joined.
[3816.42] AndyRC: You know, they're open to Halley's,
[3818.58] AndyRC: but I don't think they've ever experienced multirotors before.
[3822.66] AndyRC: So yeah, I'm interested to do that.
[3825.94] AndyRC: I'm very, very privileged to be in a club, indoor club, that embraces everything.
[3832.9] AndyRC: We have cars going on the ground.
[3835.22] AndyRC: We have tiny whoops flying around.
[3837.38] AndyRC: We have 3D planes, sport bikes, the whole lot.
[3841.3] AndyRC: We are so lucky with that.
[3843.14] AndyRC: And do you know what?
[3844.26] AndyRC: There's all ages as well.
[3846.98] AndyRC: You know, shout out to Paul and probably not watching it.
[3850.18] AndyRC: But he was back in the day where you were pressing buttons to turn
[3854.42] AndyRC: and his main transmitters are Nirvana.
[3856.66] AndyRC: So how woke is he, you know?
[3859.22] AndyRC: So we need more people.
[3860.82] NJ: That's the spirit of RC for me, just everyone, all ages
[3864.5] NJ: and all kinds of, you know, RC stuff existing in one space.
[3867.94] NJ: I'm very much up for that.
[3870.1] Lee: And what a wonderful way to finish the show on that positive note.
[3873.78] Lee: Fantastic.
[3874.58] Lee: So we have had a wonderful time.
[3877.38] Lee: Thank you, everybody, for getting involved with this.
[3879.06] Lee: I know it's just me kind of rocking up and asking kind of like,
[3882.18] Lee: it's like weird questions, but I appreciate everyone's effort tonight and doing that.
[3886.5] Lee: Tonight we have been, Tony.
[3889.38] Tony: Bonjour.
[3890.42] Tony: Jack next week.
[3891.7] Tony: He's back, everyone.
[3892.98] Tony: Who's missed him.
[3895.06] Tony: Bow mouth.
[3895.86] Tony: No filter, back.
[3897.7] Lee: Yeah.
[3898.02] Lee: So all the nub jokes will be back this week.
[3901.3] Lee: Andrew slash Frank.
[3902.74] Lee: Mike.
[3904.26] Lee: Andy RC.
[3906.66] Lee: MJ Tech.
[3907.86] Lee: Okay, guys.
[3909.14] Lee: Curry Kitten.
[3910.5] Lee: Goodbye.
[3911.54] Lee: And I've been paying the 360.
[3913.38] Lee: Happy flying.
[3914.5] Curry: Telemetry lost.
[3917.46] UNKNOWN: Bonjour.