=== Let's Drone Out — Episode 237 ===
Title: LDO 237 - Back To The Future III
Recorded: 2020-03-12
Hosts: Andy, Andrew "Frank" Hyams, Wayne "CurryKitten" Andrews, Jack "Brightontillifly" Nash
Guest(s): Lee "Painless360" Schofield
Total audience: 1,988
Platforms: YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKXV38QaHGw); SoundCloud (http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/feeds.soundcloud.com/stream/775984717-letsdroneout-ldo-237-back-to-the-future-iii.mp3)
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Lets drone out back to the future part 3 - the third session with Painless360 usurping Jack :P

MERCH SHOP NOW OPEN - https://letsdroneout.com

Lee is at - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCp1vASX-fg959vRc1xowqpw

[0.0] Jack: Hello and welcome to Let's Drone Out. The best, well the only UK FPV podcast
[6.8] Jack: sponsored by the lovely people from our Patreon. Patreon.com forward slash Let's Drone Out.
[12.88] Jack: In particular we'd like to thank these guys. Art Faulkner. Mikey Dredd. Wacky Wes. David Powell.
[24.24] Jack: Thank you guys. You're the best. We can edit our podcast. Thank you.
[59.39] Lee: Hello and welcome to Let's Drone Out. This is show 237. I'm not Jack. You've probably spotted
[67.07] Lee: that already. I'm down here in the corner. Leaks go field. Also known as Painless 360.
[71.71] Lee: So we're down a couple of people. So Tony's not with us today. So Tony's taking a week off.
[77.63] Lee: Jack's taking a week off. So I'm afraid you're stuck with the four of us. So tonight we have
[83.15] Lee: Curry Kitten. Hello. Hello. We have Andrew slash Frank. Hello. And we have Andy RC.
[90.11] Lee: I do. So Curry, do you want to do the disclaimer before we get into this and then we're not going
[96.67] Curry: to get into trouble? Yeah, we'd better because we're talking about potentially inflammatory things.
[102.75] Curry: So any views expressed by any guests on this show, a person or may not reflect the views of the host
[107.39] Lee: or any participant of the show. Thank you. Fantastic. Well done. So yeah. So thank you
[114.35] Lee: for tuning in. If you listen on the podcast, don't forget there's a whole stream available with
[119.87] Lee: historic LDO episodes as well. I'm covering for the regular host because unfortunately he's got
[128.83] Lee: other things on. And this is actually the third time I've kind of done the guest hosting slots.
[133.39] Lee: And each time when I first started this, I'll let you into a little secret. When Jack first asked
[139.39] Lee: me to come along and do this, I kind of wrote this little list of things that we can talk about on a
[143.07] Lee: bit of paper and kind of shared it between everybody. The first show we got for about a
[147.87] Lee: quarter of that list. Was that about right, guys? About a quarter? About one quarter. So okay,
[153.87] Lee: we'll come back. We'll have another crack at it. We'll speed it up. We'll get through the rest of
[157.47] Lee: it. And the last show we did about another quarter. So this time, and luckily there's less
[165.39] Lee: of us here, so we might actually get through the rest of the list. So if you haven't listened to
[170.83] Lee: the other two, Back to the Futures, where the first one we talked about the history of the hobby and
[176.75] Lee: we looked at the last 10 years and what's gone on. And that kind of filled up the entire time,
[182.83] Lee: even though that was just kind of, you know, just a bit. And then last time we talked an awful lot
[187.23] Lee: more about, we talked about radios, our recommendations for radios, the Free Sky stuff.
[193.07] Lee: And then we talked about FPV goggles and the rest of the list that I had here disappeared.
[199.07] Lee: So hopefully we'll get round to that. The first thing I want to talk a little bit about is something
[203.39] Lee: that's kind of been affecting a lot of YouTube channels. And it's kind of cool that we've got
[208.67] Lee: Currie and we've got Andy, other side, because as people who make regular content,
[215.63] Lee: big box, little box, then what you tend to find is that you get sent lots of stuff for review.
[223.07] Lee: So I know I talked to Currie, Wayne, and I talked to Andy about this as well,
[227.95] Lee: is that you tend to find that it comes in quite regularly. And every couple of days you get a
[234.11] Lee: knock on the door and there's some new piece of technology that somebody wants to do a video on,
[238.11] Lee: or a review. And because China has been closed since pretty much the end of January,
[245.95] Lee: was it really when Chinese New Year kicked in? The flow of stuff has really stopped. I've only
[253.47] Lee: received one bit of technology to review. And I'll show you what that is, a bit of a preview of a
[258.67] Lee: video that's coming. This is the Hollybro Siniwoop. This has got the, thank you, Andy,
[263.79] Lee: this has got the DJI HD stuff in it. It's quite a surprise. I thought this was a normal Siniwoop
[271.79] Lee: style thing. So it would fit on the palm of my hand and it arrived in a bloody great big box.
[275.95] Lee: And I kind of was surprised, but literally this is the only thing that I've had in for review
[281.47] Lee: in probably five weeks. And one of the really nice things about it is that normally you're
[288.67] Lee: always running to dig your reviews and stuff. And I found it really liberating that in the past
[294.75] Lee: five or six weeks, I've been able to do videos on lots of how tos, tips, tricks, builds, loads of
[300.75] Lee: things that were on my list that I wanted to do videos about, but that I couldn't get anywhere
[305.23] Lee: near. I just wondered, Wayne, if you would kind of found the same thing, if you'd have the same
[310.75] Curry: impact over the last five or six weeks. Yeah, absolutely. I think I went on holiday
[317.07] Curry: in sometime. And when I came back, it was just going into Chinese New Year. And that's when they
[325.63] Curry: had the basically the Corona virus sort of broke out in China and everything shut down. So I don't
[332.03] Curry: think I've had anything literally since January coming through new. It's never really been
[340.35] Curry: much of a thought for me because I've always had more ideas than I've ever had time to do. I have
[345.47] Curry: a whiteboard over there. I scribble things down when I have ideas. And I still haven't
[351.15] Curry: got through all of them. So I've managed to do some builds because I'm a really slow,
[356.19] Curry: lazy builder. I'm such a procrastinator when it comes to sort of getting the soldering stuff out
[360.99] Curry: and getting stuff. So I've managed to do builds. I haven't managed to fly them because it's been so
[366.35] Curry: bad. I've been working on my sim. I've had plenty more time to do that. And I've still got little
[373.23] Curry: projects dotted all around the incredible mess in my office that I've got stuff to do with.
[379.47] Curry: So for me, it's been an interesting little break because when you do get stuff in, something that
[387.39] Curry: people perhaps that don't do this don't realize is that they sort of look at it like, oh, amazing,
[392.91] Curry: you're getting all this free stuff. But I mean, for myself, and I'm sure you and Andy as well
[398.27] Curry: feel a great deal of responsibility when somebody sends you something that you want to get your
[404.43] Curry: opinion out and get a good video together that covers everything. And that takes an awful lot
[410.11] Curry: of time. And when you've got a little pile sat next to you and you're like, oh, I have to build
[415.23] Curry: something with that. I have to go and fly that. I have to check this out. And you need to spend a
[418.35] Curry: lot of time. It's quite a lot of pressure as well. So it's been an interesting couple of months just
[423.71] Curry: doing other stuff and having a little bit more chilled out about it. That's really interesting.
[429.07] AndyRC: Andy, what about you? Well, for me, I get sent so much stuff that I ended up with quite a backlog
[440.91] AndyRC: because I'm not one of these people to spend 30 minutes with a product and then put a video out
[448.83] AndyRC: and say, you know, this is the best thing in the world or don't get it because I don't believe that
[458.35] AndyRC: I don't think you could ever do a product justice by just spending one day with it. I'm just not
[464.11] AndyRC: having to go other people. It's just that I did almost manage it for a while. And I was like,
[470.59] AndyRC: it's not fun. I wasn't finding it fun. So taking my time and I also thought as well,
[482.35] AndyRC: this could be somebody's only product or quad or transmitter or whatever like that.
[488.83] AndyRC: And if I'm putting out a video every single day, then there's no way that I could
[495.47] AndyRC: catch it like a showstopper that I'll go, wait a minute, you shouldn't get this thing.
[504.59] AndyRC: So for me, I still haven't got through even up to now. Still, I'm not through that backlog because
[513.79] AndyRC: now when I make a video, I mean, maybe I'm spending too much time on it, but
[519.23] AndyRC: I'll just recently actually, the shortest amount of time it took for me to make a video was four
[529.23] AndyRC: days. And that was the the emacs tiny haul race. It turned up four days before the day where they
[538.51] AndyRC: say this have a very unique way of doing stuff as I'm sure Wayne knows. They have an embargo
[548.59] AndyRC: on their things that they release. And I didn't even know I was getting this damn thing.
[557.23] AndyRC: But I opened the package and it said emacs on the side. I was like, Oh, no. And so the first
[562.51] AndyRC: thing I did was rush to the computer and say, when has this got to be out by and they said,
[569.23] AndyRC: in three days time or something like that, three or four days time, I was like, Oh, my God. So
[575.87] AndyRC: yeah, it was like drop everything that I was doing. And yeah, so and for me, that was a push.
[583.31] AndyRC: So I put a lot of time into the videos. And so I still got a backlog of stuff, although
[591.07] AndyRC: just like you were saying, you know, people, I've got a backlog of stuff. But at the same time,
[601.47] AndyRC: it's kind of pointless posting videos about it, because people can't buy the stuff anyways.
[610.19] AndyRC: So, you know, it's not it's not that I'm posting the videos, you know, because I want people to
[615.79] AndyRC: buy them. But it would be frustrating if I was to say, Look at this thing, it's great. And then
[623.87] AndyRC: you can't buy it. So, yeah, it's been a real difficult one for me, because I'm like,
[633.23] AndyRC: I could clear this backlog of stuff. But on the other hand, you can't buy it anyways,
[639.15] AndyRC: because the you know, they're either not in stock or, you know, China's not even there,
[645.39] AndyRC: and you can't buy it. So, but I did some cool stuff, though. I did my one s balance lead thing
[655.23] AndyRC: that that was quite popular. And it's something that I've always had an idea for, but never had
[661.71] AndyRC: time to get around doing. I'm doing a lot of stuff with RC cars and land based stuff. So a bit had a
[670.91] AndyRC: little bit of time to do that as well. So that's what I've been up to.
[675.39] Lee: Good, because I've heard of a couple of businesses going pop, because there's quite
[680.75] Lee: relatively small, not particularly cash rich, and the lack of products for them to sell,
[686.35] Lee: they've just run out of money and had to close up shop. And I was talking to people like ZOD and
[691.55] Lee: Thatcher and all those kind of guys, TBS and others are all kind of, you know, kind of getting
[695.87] Lee: on with it, because China seems to be gradually opening up, because they seem to be luckily on
[702.35] Lee: the other side of the coronavirus thing. But the but it's been fascinating for me to really see
[708.59] Lee: how important China is, and China manufacturing, distribution, shipping, etc. is the hobby,
[715.23] Lee: because it's just stopped all the new stuff coming out, even the stuff that I was expecting to be
[719.71] Lee: released in February. And now it's all slipped kind of six, eight weeks minimum. So even, you
[727.63] Lee: know, I was even chasing fat shark about something that should have been out now. And what it was
[732.99] Lee: quite funny, because Greg at fat shark was like, Oh, I need to chase them about that. Thanks for
[736.99] Lee: the reminder. But it's still not around. And again, just a note there from I missed that one,
[745.55] Lee: who that who was that from? But that was a Mr. Shady. Yeah, Mr. Mr. Shady talking about the fact
[750.43] Lee: he's ordering the mobular, you know, but things are getting cancelled and stuff. So you're right,
[756.67] Lee: I think it's tricky, because if you've had a product for a while, and you put it up there,
[762.03] Lee: if somebody orders it, they may or may not get it, they order may or may not be cancelled.
[767.63] Lee: But I'm like, I'm like, Curry, I've got a big list of things that, you know, when you when you're
[772.51] Lee: answering comments, and you're replying to stuff on YouTube, because I know we all do it.
[776.83] Lee: Gives you an idea. Yeah. And sometimes it's, if you're really busy, you can, and this is my
[784.03] Lee: issue that sometimes you're so busy, because you've got this pile of stuff that you have to get
[787.23] Lee: through and other other things that you've committed to all that you've been asked to do,
[791.23] Lee: that you kind of go and you go and you just give the answer. And then you move on to the next
[795.15] Lee: comment. And it's been lovely to have the time to actually think hang on a minute. That's a really
[799.95] Lee: good question. Because I think it was, was Wayne, was it you and I talking about electrical ohms
[806.67] Curry: volts? And I was actually saying I was describing Tony and he's in Epitude with electronics. And
[814.35] Curry: you said, that gives me a brilliant idea for a video. I should talk about the basics.
[819.31] Lee: So I've got a basic bit. Yeah. Hello to Tony. But the idea was is that, you know, you know,
[827.39] Lee: there's a lot of, lots of people don't understand the difference between voltage, current and
[831.47] Lee: resistance and how they're all related. And, you know, what voltage actually is and how current
[836.35] Lee: works. And from what I used to kind of teach that stuff, I use the analogy of a water-based system.
[842.27] Lee: So voltage is like the water pressure, water current is like the electrical current. And I
[847.79] Lee: thought, you know what, that would make a really good video. So there's been loads of those things.
[852.11] Lee: So a lot of the videos that are coming out at the moment are more how to's and the stuff that
[858.19] Lee: I've been meaning to get to for ages. So every time I read one of those comments where somebody
[862.67] Lee: asks a really good question, or it's a question that I did a video for seven or eight years ago,
[868.43] Lee: I probably wouldn't want anyone watching now because it's probably horrific.
[874.67] Lee: Do you guys ever do that? Go back and watch some of your old stuff and you sit there kind of
[878.51] AndyRC: like that. I'm a bit like, same with music, once a video is done, it's done,
[887.31] Lee: moved on to the next one. Yeah, occasionally I'll do that thing though, where I'll build a model
[893.31] Lee: with a specific flight controller and I won't do it again for eight months. Yeah. And you do that
[899.71] Lee: thing where you go, oh, hang on a minute. Let me just have a look and remind myself how I do that.
[903.55] Lee: And you're watching it back and you go, who done that better? Oh, that's not very good.
[909.15] Lee: Doing that. Yeah. So we've all been, but to finish my rambly comment,
[914.75] Lee: answering a comment like that. So there was a one from today about another question and it was like,
[920.03] Lee: that's a really, really great question. Because I know if somebody's asked me on a video, it won't
[925.55] Lee: be that one individual who's struggling to find the answer or isn't sure about what it works.
[929.63] Lee: It could be 10,000 people who have that same question that the video would be answered for.
[936.67] Lee: So yeah, I was just interested in what you guys had found because it's been a very dry patch.
[941.23] Lee: It's opening up now and starting to get new things shipped across, but it's actually been
[946.75] Lee: really nice not to be running. I don't watch a lot of the guys who just do product reviews.
[954.35] Lee: Have any of you been looking at some of those other channels? How they coped?
[958.27] AndyRC: Well, you can really tell, I think, be careful here. I've not done the disclaimer, have you?
[966.59] AndyRC: Yeah, we have the disclaimer.
[969.15] AndyRC: We don't do the disclaimer.
[970.43] Curry: Yeah, at the start. You notice the lack of content where it was sort of daily basis from some people.
[978.19] Curry: And I noticed Stuart, UAV Futures was branching out into sort of talking about
[985.23] Curry: what's coming in Betaflight and a few other little bits, which is a bit of a departure for him,
[991.39] Curry: certainly. I have to admit, I haven't been watching them. I just noticed the title's coming up.
[997.87] Curry: But normally, when I was just going to say, normally, when I was clicking on my subscriptions
[1007.63] Curry: for YouTube, I get sort of a page full of this is what's happening. And that is so far down.
[1013.07] Curry: I remember refreshing the page this morning. It was like one extra video from something else,
[1017.79] Curry: whereas normally, you'd expect a whole bunch of things coming up. So it certainly
[1022.19] Curry: made an impact on people who make videos just generally.
[1026.19] Lee: Yeah, I think it has. I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing, because sometimes,
[1030.67] Lee: the amount of content that gets kicked out, I mean, because the cool thing about Andy's video,
[1038.03] Lee: well, all three of us, actually, we don't tend to get something in and have it for two minutes and
[1042.35] Lee: go, it's the best thing ever with every single product. There's a balance of, well,
[1047.31] Lee: this is good, but this is a bit meh. And if we are trying to be under pressure,
[1053.23] Lee: I know I call my videos first look, rather than a review.
[1059.15] AndyRC: I think first looks are okay. It's just that.
[1063.79] Lee: I think if you're up front and you say it's a first look rather than it's a review,
[1068.59] Lee: then I think that's fair comment, because it's amazing. Like the EV300Ds, when they first came
[1074.99] Lee: out doing a first look video, they look great. But it's only when you start to play with them
[1080.51] Lee: out in the field and flying fast, you think, oh, hang on a minute. And then the lag issues,
[1085.55] Lee: people start to spot that. You're welcome, Mr. Shady. So actually, that's a great example.
[1093.79] Lee: Going back to that thing about the comment, somebody asked me a comment, Mr. Shady asked
[1097.55] Lee: about can you have the sound files that you get on a free sky radio in companion.
[1104.91] Lee: And I was just going to go, oh, yeah, just go here, you type. And I thought, actually,
[1108.03] Lee: no, it's a video. So I did a video and then point it to him. And that's a great example of stuff I
[1112.43] Curry: was talking about. Yeah, one of the things I get asked almost continuously, and it makes me think
[1120.99] Curry: I must do a video about is can I have the sound files? These are the strange sounds from my
[1126.19] Curry: Taranis of my daughter when she was about six, which all the inflections of everything is
[1131.07] Curry: completely different and sounds a bit like the Red Queen from Resident Evil. People ask that so much,
[1137.39] Curry: because they don't appreciate that you can record your own sounds and put them on there. So I must,
[1142.67] Curry: it's on the board as a to do, but it's like show video about how easy it is to record stuff and
[1147.87] AndyRC: replace your entire sound file. And also underneath that report people asking for
[1153.63] AndyRC: the files of your six year old daughter.
[1160.59] Curry: People just assume it's a download somewhere.
[1163.71] Lee: Oh, I see what you mean. Yeah, like Amber, Amber pack, young child pack or whatever.
[1169.63] AndyRC: Be careful with searching that. Yeah. No, what I was going to say, ironically, though, Lee,
[1174.75] AndyRC: about what really annoyed me about the EV 300 DS is I spent probably the best part of two weeks
[1186.27] AndyRC: with the EV 300 DS. And it turns out that, you know, because they were pre-prod,
[1196.27] AndyRC: a few are, you got yours and did your latency test. I had no latency problems with mine whatsoever.
[1204.75] AndyRC: This is something that, so to be fair, I did say, look, these are a production
[1211.87] AndyRC: version and mine were completely different than when people bought them. Mine had RPSMA,
[1219.31] AndyRC: antenna things. Yeah. So, so I received them like ages before they got released.
[1229.15] AndyRC: And I didn't, I mean, I was doing like crazy freestyle and, and there's like no, no way
[1236.03] AndyRC: that I had any latency issues whatsoever. I believe they've been fixed now anyways,
[1240.43] AndyRC: with a firmware update or something, but it seems a bad example because they are not consistent
[1246.75] AndyRC: with their products. So I was annoyed about that one because all of my comments were,
[1251.63] AndyRC: why didn't you talk about the latency? And I was like, mine didn't have any latency issues,
[1257.15] AndyRC: but yours obviously did. They're different. They had a different firmware on them.
[1261.95] Lee: Yeah. And actually that's, that is one of the issues, isn't it? Was sometimes getting the
[1265.15] Lee: pre-prod units that you do a review and the actual production. I mean, look at what happened with the
[1270.75] Lee: Fat Shark HDOs. You know, my pre-prod, it was amazing. You got yours and it had light leaks
[1276.51] Lee: and they had to fix that. So that's the other danger that you've, and sometimes we're not told
[1281.39] Lee: as reviewers that they are pre-prod, even though I always ask, you know, they go, no, no, no, that's,
[1286.59] Lee: there's no changes. That's the, that's a production version.
[1290.11] Frank: Well, it might also be in the actual production process, you know, as far as the designers are
[1295.55] Frank: concerned, it might be exactly the same thing. Cause that's not too uncommon that you go to
[1301.55] Frank: a manufacturer and say, I want, you know, a small batch pre-production run that's, but you get it,
[1308.27] Frank: it's all good. So you say, yes, I want more of those, please. And you get those. And without
[1313.39] Frank: any notice at all, it's completely different from what you've previously had, even though you've
[1317.39] Frank: just said, I want more of those things. And that it's kind of a thing you have to deal with when
[1321.95] AndyRC: dealing with these kinds of manufacturers. Well, what annoyed me about the EV300Ds though, is that
[1329.47] AndyRC: even though I'd said in my video, it was a pre-prod. Luckily that time, that's it, just taking it.
[1336.59] Curry: And there must be a one that sounds like she's trying to have sex with you all the time. It's
[1343.63] Lee: the seduction voice pack, I call it. Yeah, it is. So for those listening on the podcast, the reason
[1348.51] Lee: why we've just all laughed is Clive FPV commented that his wife has made him take the amber voice
[1353.07] Lee: pack off his radio. Cause it's, it sounds too raunchy. So we've just made us all laugh. Clive,
[1361.71] AndyRC: that's brilliant. Thanks, mate. He keeps crashing when he's flying cause he's pressing certain
[1368.03] Lee: buttons. So Andrew, go on. You were just saying about the pre-production stuff. Yeah. What annoyed
[1376.19] AndyRC: me about that one is I mentioned, they actually told me, you know, actually what you've got is
[1382.83] AndyRC: like one of the first sets it's pre-prod. So I mentioned all of this in the video. I think I
[1388.75] AndyRC: even said, it's kind of hard to review a product when you know it's pre-prod. So take all of this
[1394.83] AndyRC: with a pinch of salt. And I got comment after comment. What about the latency? What about the
[1400.27] AndyRC: latency? And I'm like, did you not watch the video? It's a pre-prod thing. I think, and then not
[1406.59] AndyRC: everyone's assuming that, you know, just because the production versions got latency that my pre-prod
[1414.27] AndyRC: one must have had late. But if you go and look at Wayne mentioned your AV futures, actually,
[1422.67] AndyRC: he did his review and didn't seem to suffer any latency either. So I imagine he must have, you'd
[1430.83] AndyRC: note it. I mean, what did you say it was Lee a hundred milliseconds or something like that?
[1435.39] AndyRC: It was over 120 milliseconds. There was no way I would be able to fly. I mean, I was diving down
[1443.15] AndyRC: the middle of trees. You cannot do that with 100 billion. You can't do that with 60 milliseconds,
[1449.07] AndyRC: but people were still. So anyways, we'll move on to that topic, but it's a bitter one for me.
[1454.43] Curry: It's interesting what Frank said, though, because I don't generally get pre-prod stuff,
[1458.67] Curry: but I've had plenty of times when I've put a review out and then people were saying,
[1463.15] Curry: I've got mine and the motors are different or the properties have changed or something.
[1467.39] Curry: And as Frank said, it's not necessarily because I figured maybe they just changed it halfway and
[1472.51] Curry: didn't tell anybody, but it could be that it was like an early production run. And when they
[1476.11] Curry: order the next production run, different things came along with it for whatever reason.
[1481.55] Lee: Well, the weird thing was is just to go back to kind of ram home this point, the whole fact chart
[1486.91] Lee: HDO thing was, you know, Andy, you bought them and then came around to my house and we were sat in
[1492.51] Lee: my back garden because you said this is not the same. So you tried mine on and you tried your HDOs.
[1498.99] Lee: And luckily, I know Greg at Fat Shark. So we pinged Greg at Fat Shark and went, Greg,
[1504.51] Lee: there's a problem. And Greg was, is there? So actually, we took photo. Do you remember this,
[1508.75] Lee: Andy? We sat in the garden, taking photos on my phone and pinging them to it. So we went to the
[1514.27] Lee: fact, and what it turned out was the factory had decided to change the plastics on the side doors
[1521.55] Lee: without asking Fat Shark and had just arbitrarily, probably because it was Tuppence cheaper,
[1528.59] Lee: had changed the plastics and they weren't optically opaque. So they were they were bleeding
[1533.63] Lee: light through. So then, you know, there was a whole hoo-ha about about that stuff. So sometimes
[1538.27] Lee: it's not even the manufacturer, it's the it's not the vendor, it's the manufacturer making decisions
[1544.03] Lee: swapping parts out without actually letting people know it is a little bit like the wide Wild West
[1549.07] Frank: for some stuff. This episode was recorded in front of a live online audience, downloaded and edited
[1554.67] Frank: to make sense when it played audio only, censored to please the iTunes people, hosted on the
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[1569.07] Frank: also get other online benefits. Find out more at patreon.com forward slash let's drone out.
[1575.79] Lee: I'm just conscious that Andrew slash Frank has only said about 50 words in the 25 minutes of the
[1582.11] Lee: show. So let's move on to the next topic because I want to speak to Andrew slash Frank and it does
[1587.55] Lee: feel weird calling you that on this show because I call you Andrew in real life. Can we talk a
[1593.23] Lee: little bit about the Mini Air Show update because I'm still not sure whether I'm booking a hotel.
[1599.55] Lee: So just for everybody listening, the Mini Air Show has been something that Andrew slash Frank,
[1604.51] Lee: it's still weird, has been organizing for the last four or five years based down just outside
[1610.19] Lee: of Winchester. It's been a great place with the minimum amount of oversight for everybody in the
[1616.19] Lee: hobby, all aspects, wings, quads, indoor, outdoor, people who are interested who just want to go
[1622.67] Lee: along, people who just want to kind of come down and meet all the people who are there. It's been
[1627.39] Lee: a really great welcoming place and it's changed a little bit this year. And last time we spoke
[1631.55] Lee: about it, just to provide a bit of context, it turned out that the way it was being organized
[1638.51] Lee: this time meant that Frank actually wasn't involved. And that potentially meant that the
[1643.55] Lee: whole way that the show that we've all loved wasn't going to be the same. Now that the last
[1650.03] Lee: time we spoke was about what, three weeks ago, some three, four weeks ago? Something like that.
[1654.75] Frank: So what's the latest? So the tickets are up on the Papa Merfield Eventbrite page. So if you
[1664.51] Frank: either go to Papa Merfield's page or you can go through, you can still find it through going
[1670.91] Frank: facebook.com forward slash mini air show and then finding the MA6 event. And then there's the links
[1676.51] Frank: for the tickets there. So if you want to get tickets, that is the way you can get tickets.
[1680.83] Frank: So they are live. I'm still waiting for a bit more explanation on exactly what the different
[1688.27] Frank: tickets mean. I'm not entirely clear myself. So as soon as I know what's going on there,
[1693.95] Frank: then I will pass that on. But there will at least be so there's a bunch of teams that are
[1703.87] Frank: lined up to do some flying, some displays on the kind of main flight line. It's going to be basically
[1711.15] Frank: the same layout as last year. So there have been plans to use one of the manned runways and make
[1716.51] Frank: a much bigger event. But that's been scaled back, I think, kind of with everything else,
[1721.87] Frank: big events are maybe not going to be going too well this year. And this is kind of a way to
[1727.79] Frank: mitigate some of the risk there. So it's going to be basically the same layout as last year with
[1734.27] Frank: the model airfield, the FPV racetrack and the marquee in between. So on the racetrack, there's
[1741.31] Frank: going to be, I believe, KQRC are running the FPV racing and that's kind of being organized by them.
[1749.95] Frank: The main flight line is being organized by the southern area BMFA and they're doing that
[1757.55] Frank: side of things. And so there's going to be sort of scale models and that kind of thing. I don't
[1764.43] Frank: know if there's going to be an FPV slot on the main flight line. I don't know how it's going to
[1768.19] Frank: work out with the evening flying, how that's all working out. So I've asked those questions, but I
[1774.11] Frank: haven't heard that yet. So I'm still waiting on the details there. But in the marquee, there will
[1780.19] Frank: be the team in the air show volunteers doing a lot more building, the simulators, all that kind
[1787.79] Frank: of stuff. We will be putting that on in the marquee. We've worked out where to get some
[1796.83] Frank: holes and kits, hopefully. So we'll be putting some stuff together. So if you wanted to come
[1802.19] Frank: along and scratch build some stuff in the marquee, come and join us there. Fab. That all sounds a
[1807.95] Lee: lot more positive than last time we spoke because last time it was you needed a BMFA certificate
[1812.67] Lee: and there was all that goodness. So have they kind of retreated from that position a little bit?
[1818.51] Frank: Because it sounds more like the show that we know and love. Yeah, it seems a lot more that way.
[1824.03] Frank: But I'm still, because I think they're still working out, I think they're still drawing
[1830.19] Frank: short straws for who has to be flight director and kind of nominate who has to do what. So
[1838.67] Frank: you know, all the kind of the schedule has been sorted and the layout has been sorted
[1842.51] Frank: and the tickets alive and everything like that. So there's definitely an event happening.
[1847.95] AndyRC: But I hate to be the person to step in and say this. But I'm not going to say the word,
[1855.31] AndyRC: but has has the C word not the normal C words that we like to travel now. Has
[1863.71] AndyRC: has the C word ever been brought up because just conscious that, you know, April, there are events
[1872.27] AndyRC: in April getting cancelled or have already been cancelled because of the C. And the reason why I
[1878.35] AndyRC: say C word is there's a particular word that if you say at the moment online, you will
[1885.95] AndyRC: there'll be consequences if you say it on YouTube, believe it or not. So let's say it wasn't ready.
[1892.91] AndyRC: It's fine. Coronavirus. We don't know. Oh, I tried. You did. That was almost as fancy verbal
[1907.07] Lee: footwork as when you were trying to describe that system of stretching an image without mentioning
[1911.79] AndyRC: the name. That was very good, Andy. Well done. You mean dynamically stretching video?
[1915.95] Lee: That's right. Yeah, that's right. That's what it's called, isn't it?
[1919.71] Lee: That it is. There's no brand names involved in it. So just to finish, Andrew, Frank. So basically,
[1924.91] Lee: you're still not involved in it. We're still not clear on what's going on. But it appears to be
[1929.71] Lee: going in the right direction. But in April, as Andy, obviously, quite rightly pointed out,
[1934.83] Lee: there may be an impact if there's additional things happening in the UK because of the virus.
[1941.07] Frank: So yeah, we may be scratch building like some masks. And I think Fraser's got some plans for
[1946.27] Frank: an oxygen generator. So you know, we'll have that going on in the corner.
[1950.03] Lee: Right. You just have to hand out kind of like rubber gloves and surgical masks. It'd just be
[1954.27] Frank: like a regular evening at Tony's. A wingspan apart from each other. It's fine.
[1960.11] AndyRC: A regular evening at Tony's. Jack would have been the better person to wear.
[1965.15] AndyRC: Well, yeah, he's got his he's got his special drawer anti blessing. Let's not go there.
[1971.87] Lee: No, let's not go there. No, you don't want to go there.
[1975.71] Lee: Not really. So it's cool. Okay, so keep us up to date. We'll put a link in the description if
[1981.31] Lee: you want to go and have a look at the tickets for that. And hopefully, you know, there'll be more
[1985.79] Lee: updates to come. But thanks, Andrew, kind of covering that for us. So next one to talk about
[1991.71] Lee: then. And I know this is something that Andrew that, Andy, I'll say that you're quite interested
[1995.47] Lee: in. And last time since the last time I was on, there's been an awful lot of stuff happening in
[2000.03] Lee: the states around the reaction and a coordinated response toward the proposed legislation and
[2006.99] Lee: remote ID and all that stuff. I know that's something that you wanted to talk about. Well,
[2011.79] Lee: you know, what, what's your thoughts on what's been happening over the last four weeks?
[2015.71] AndyRC: Yeah, I mean, a lot has been done, hasn't it? But I'm not sure what the impact has been made.
[2024.67] AndyRC: Maybe people in the chat are more upon what the actual result of it was. But obviously,
[2033.15] AndyRC: there was a protest that that happened. And I believe quite a lot of people turned up, actually,
[2039.39] AndyRC: I think, as a product, like, people were worried that only 20 people would turn up at this FAA
[2045.63] AndyRC: protest. But I think quite a lot of people turned up, you know, some of the signs made me laugh
[2052.19] AndyRC: because they they I think I saw one sign that said, God loves drones. Which I don't if you're
[2061.95] AndyRC: not familiar with the Westboro Baptist Church, you hold picket signs that there's there's say
[2068.59] AndyRC: something a bit similar to that, but slightly more offensive. Well, at the risk of being
[2074.51] Lee: controversial, I know, speaking to Jack, at the end of last week, Jack has decided that what we
[2079.23] Lee: need to do is actually start a church. Yeah, yeah. And then and then and then claim kind of,
[2085.79] Lee: you know, religious freedom, in which case, you know, that they cannot, they can't do anything
[2090.51] Lee: about it. And it just needs to be a global church. And it has to be the Church of RC or the Church
[2095.23] Lee: of drone. So, you know, that was his idea. And I think it's got merit. We might have to make
[2099.95] Curry: budgets. Oh, yeah. Yeah, we elected a God last week. Yeah, I missed that. Who was that? Well,
[2107.63] Frank: I said it should have been you, Lee, before we said you were a disciple and God was sharpie.
[2115.23] Curry: That was it. Yeah. Okay. Well, I think we decided to make Lee an apostle, didn't we? Just to up him
[2119.79] AndyRC: a bit. I said, I said, if sharp is going to be God, then Lee has got to be Jesus or something,
[2126.75] Lee: at least, you know, right? Yeah. Apologies to everyone out there who is deeply religious,
[2132.19] Lee: who are just just about to spit their cornflakes at the at the radio. Yeah. But but going back to
[2139.23] Lee: the point, I know there was there was things about like get FPV have been doing things and kind of
[2143.87] Lee: like, you know, hiring lawyers and stuff that been. But I read online that the number of petitions
[2149.55] Lee: and things wasn't particularly big in terms of the online stuff that people were signing.
[2154.91] AndyRC: I think it was the number of comments was the pleasant wasn't wasn't it? Yeah, when it because
[2159.79] AndyRC: there were the proposals and then you could comment on it. And I think that they didn't get
[2165.71] AndyRC: the number of comments that they wanted. But I believe the FAA protest from from what I saw and
[2173.47] AndyRC: I've read on the Internet, people thought it was successful. I mean, you know, how much of an
[2180.19] AndyRC: impact it has, I don't know. One thing that's happening for sure is that race day quads are
[2188.03] AndyRC: taking the FAA to court for a legal battle. And I think that's probably got more weight behind it,
[2197.63] AndyRC: you know, that I think there's a go fund me. I haven't got a link to it, but I'm pretty sure
[2204.99] AndyRC: there's a go fund me. And they're putting their pledge in their own money to pay for it. And
[2214.43] Lee: yeah, Tyler sent out an email didn't he? Which kind of detailed all that stuff?
[2220.59] Lee: Yeah, that was a couple of weeks ago. I was really impressed with that. Because I know race
[2225.07] Lee: day quad sometimes comes in for a bit of grief about Rotoriah and the other things that they're
[2229.71] Lee: involved with, but actually, you know, good on good on them, because if it gets picked up by the
[2234.67] Lee: media and the media start looking into it, and it gives a platform for the other side of the argument,
[2239.79] Curry: then that's not necessarily a bad thing. Yeah, I haven't looked in detail, but the US is so litigious
[2246.43] Curry: that you often find cases that people are taking the government to court and winning, and they're
[2251.79] Curry: taking it all the way up to Supreme Court, because it there's some amendment in the Bill
[2257.63] Curry: of Rights that they decide it it's, it's oppressing against or something like that. And it's quite
[2263.31] Curry: often people manage to get things overturned on small technicalities like that. I think more legs
[2269.47] AndyRC: and signatures, I think, I think what surprised some people is that I think it Amazon actually,
[2277.23] AndyRC: I mean, I don't know if this was just them covering their back or whatever. I believe
[2284.35] AndyRC: Amazon protests protests remote ID. And I know DJI certainly does as well. I mean,
[2293.63] Lee: sorry, and is it worthwhile was talking for that about what remote ID is? Because I'm
[2300.91] Lee: conscious that a lot of people have kind of read lots of things about it. And do you know what it
[2306.75] Lee: actually is? Who's that addressed to? Sorry, Andy, I'll say sorry. Oh, there's too many Andes,
[2314.75] AndyRC: Andrew slash Frank. I mean, I'm the Andrew slash Frank probably knows more about it than me. But
[2320.19] AndyRC: essentially, remote ID is it's is what what it says that you have to I mean, that there's, you
[2330.11] AndyRC: know, there's, there's so many rules. It's ridiculous. It's about sort of having a beacon
[2336.43] AndyRC: on your models that can be trapped by online. And I think is there the exemption that is like if
[2350.03] AndyRC: you're at an AMA field or something like that, or desert there are designated, you know, clubs or
[2357.23] AndyRC: fields called are they called floors or I'm butchering this on I Andy, do you know, can you
[2365.95] AndyRC: explain this better than I can? Or but I know that I think that is what the deal is basically an
[2373.55] AndyRC: electronic tag on every drone that isn't in a designated field, which obviously for for
[2381.39] AndyRC: park flyers and kids and stuff like that, you know, I think in the UK, light aircraft for
[2388.59] Lee: air, that's it for air, right? Sorry, the aircraft in the UK don't have to have that kind of system
[2394.99] Lee: on board. You know, it's, it's actually a higher standard for something that weighs 300 grams,
[2401.63] Lee: there's something that's got two people on board and you know, weighs weighs a quarter of a ton.
[2406.11] Lee: It's it does seem a slightly disproportionate thing. And just last Frank, do you know any more
[2410.03] Frank: about that from the stuff that you've been involved in here in the UK? So I know there was
[2416.35] Frank: talk about bringing that in the UK. And they looked at it and we've got too much to deal with
[2421.47] Frank: at the moment. For another few years, we'll get on with what we're doing at the moment. And we'll
[2426.59] Frank: come back to that later. Maybe someone else will have thought about it a bit more by that point.
[2430.67] Frank: But I think looking around, there's because there's the the way that the FAA have proposed
[2437.39] Frank: is by like Andy said, by having kind of servers somewhere back, you know, run by different
[2445.63] Frank: companies, and you sign up with one of them and your your drone reports back to those so that
[2450.91] Frank: anyone going around can look it up on an Apple website or whatever, and find out who you are
[2455.87] Frank: and where you're flying and all where you are standing while you're flying and all this kind
[2459.31] Frank: of stuff. But I think the proposal in France, which I think is actually coming into effect
[2468.51] Frank: at the end of this year, but don't quote me on this, but there's a lot of stuff going on in
[2472.27] Frank: France, I think it was written into the law in France, the end of last year, at least. But
[2478.27] Frank: they're looking at saying it can be either that or it can be so just broadcast from the drone
[2486.51] Frank: itself. So you're not necessarily going back to a server somewhere, but just being broadcast from
[2491.15] Frank: the drone. Because that's the way DSP works, isn't it, I think. Yes, how it works, how JI stuff works
[2499.47] Frank: with the Aeroscope. So that's kind of a bit more of an accepted standard. But I think not as many
[2507.23] Frank: people can make as much money out of it. Maybe that's why the FAA wants to go this other route
[2511.79] Frank: of running servers to do it all the time. One of the outrageous comments that somebody might
[2519.31] Lee: be doing something because it'll make more money for somebody else. That's why it was interesting
[2526.59] AndyRC: about these companies who are being blamed. This is why people say it's Amazon and then Amazon
[2534.27] Curry: turn around and say, oh, no, we don't want this. What I found interesting and what I thought might
[2543.31] Curry: stand up in a legal case is some of the banners people are holding were basically saying,
[2549.31] Curry: let us fly on our own property. Because of course, that would effectively make it illegal to fly on
[2553.63] Curry: your own property unless you have one of these things fitted. And these are your own property
[2558.11] Curry: where you can fire guns and do stuff like that. But you can't fly a 300-gram drone
[2564.27] Curry: without getting in trouble unless you've got something attached, which I thought might be
[2571.55] Curry: legal presidents I don't know about. But it seems like you could certainly argue that that must
[2578.59] Curry: go against the spirit of something somewhere on that big list of freedoms that are so keen on
[2583.07] Lee: in the US. There's got to be an amendment that covers that somewhere, right?
[2586.99] Curry: Yeah, you're free to do what you like on your own land, basically. I think we should be there
[2592.35] Curry: anyway. We hope so. We hope common sense prevails somehow.
[2595.87] Lee: Yes, let's keep our fingers crossed because I'm still hoping that here in the UK that they
[2600.75] Lee: realize it's just a complete waste of bloody time and eventually give up on the whole daft
[2604.67] Lee: idea of registration. And then it goes the way of dog licenses. But we live in hope.
[2611.87] AndyRC: Yeah, yeah. Going back to something that you said earlier about there are small
[2617.87] AndyRC: unmanned light aircraft, and they don't have to have anything. They can essentially just fly.
[2627.23] AndyRC: I read a reason why that is. And it unfortunately sort of was justifiable. Have we talked about
[2637.47] Frank: this before, Andy, on the show? We probably have. No, I just read Fraser's comment. That was all.
[2641.87] Lee: Oh, right. Fair enough. I think we have. And it's the fact that the pilot is putting their own life
[2646.91] Lee: in jeopardy. So there is an element of responsibility they have to have. Although,
[2653.63] Lee: seeing some people, some videos on YouTube of microlight and paragliding, I'm not necessarily
[2659.15] AndyRC: sure. It's not just that, though. It's the fact that if a manned aviation, if they do something
[2671.79] AndyRC: silly or if they crash, they will usually find the person who's responsible for it. The problem
[2679.63] AndyRC: with the drone is that the person who's responsible for when all of these light aircraft start
[2688.83] AndyRC: being hit by drones and falling out of the sky, that they can't find the person who's responsible.
[2695.47] Lee: So what do they do? In the radio, then, they kind of wire it up. So in the event of a nasty crash,
[2701.15] Lee: it kind of electrically shocks the operator and calls 911. You've got to handcuff yourself to the
[2706.75] Lee: radio. You wouldn't be able to let go, you'd be like that. It calls for the paramedic. It works
[2713.79] Frank: like a taser and just fires the little... Yeah, the prongs into your chest. We'd all have really
[2720.27] Lee: thick jackets on. That's the answer. There we go. We've fixed it. The other kind of distinction
[2727.87] Frank: that's often made when people are kind of talking about this stuff from a manned aviation
[2734.43] Frank: perspective and kind of why are there more regulations on unmanned aircraft is the principle
[2741.55] Frank: safety kind of idea in the air is see and avoid. And that's a lot harder when something is small
[2750.59] Frank: and thin and black rather than a great big parachute or something.
[2756.59] Lee: I missed a trick for today. We should have pulled up the latest Airprox report, shouldn't we,
[2761.31] Lee: Andrew? We need to do it next time I'm on. Remind me, we will do that because I love having a good
[2768.59] Lee: laugh at those. I was at the pub talking to a pilot today about those things. And it just makes
[2772.91] Lee: me laugh. 10, 15 years ago, anything that was weird seen at altitude was reported as some kind
[2778.43] Lee: of UFO or a weird set of lights or whatever. Everything that they see that they don't understand
[2783.23] Lee: is immediately reported as a UAV, even if it's a UAV that physically can't exist. It's a drone.
[2788.91] Frank: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. But just kind of relevant to that, because there's also been a lot of news
[2797.95] Frank: recently about, Grant Shapps made the announcement that the CIA or the UK generally won't be
[2805.47] Frank: aligning itself with the ARSA after the end of this year, kind of the general assumption
[2810.27] Frank: being that the UK would stick along with the ARSA because it's still next door. Grant Shapps
[2818.11] Frank: has said, no, we're not going to follow the ARSA, but I'm not going to, I don't expect that to change
[2826.51] Frank: anything because effectively it's the same people who've been part of the CIA, writing the rules
[2832.59] Frank: for the ARSA are going to be writing the rules for the CIA. And it's still going to be the same
[2837.23] Frank: situation. It's not going to change any of the context or the research that they're working from.
[2841.95] Frank: You can ignore it all. It's not going to change anything. Speaking of ignoring things, there's
[2846.75] Lee: some comments going on between Mr. Shady, Fraser and a couple of others about the exemption that
[2854.67] Lee: has been extended. I think it is worthwhile covering that because there is an awful lot
[2858.67] Lee: of confusion. People don't understand it. People think they can and can't do stuff. Sorry to kind
[2864.43] Lee: of actually do this because it wasn't kind of in the plan. But Andrew Schlossfein, can you just
[2867.95] Lee: very briefly explain what the situation is? So let's assume that the pilots we're talking about
[2873.87] Lee: have a certificate of competency through BMFA, FBVUK or others, but haven't registered yet with
[2882.43] Lee: the CAA, but they're a member of one of those approved large organizations. What do they have
[2888.19] Frank: to do between now and is it the end of June? Yes, the end of June is when all the new rules
[2895.63] Frank: are now coming in. Watch this space because it's changing all the time. Yeah, so they've
[2904.91] Frank: pushed back. There was an exemption so that you could fly above 250 grams without registering
[2913.47] Frank: with the CAA or getting an operator ID or any of that stuff. That's been pushed back now till
[2920.35] Frank: July. So as long as you've got your membership details and the exemption and you print those off
[2929.39] Frank: and keep them in your back pocket or in your transmitter case or whatever, you're good until
[2934.99] Lee: July. But you've also got to have your certificate as well, don't you? Or is it just those two things?
[2942.51] Frank: Well, good point. I can't remember off the top of my head, but might as well put that in there.
[2948.11] Frank: Why not? And while you're printing things, better safe than sorry, right? Yeah, absolutely. Because
[2953.07] Lee: sod's law says. So what I actually mean, just for those of us in the UK, if you are already a member
[2958.67] Lee: of one of the large model associations, you've done your competency, then that is all you have
[2963.71] Lee: to do. You don't have to pay your nine quid. You don't have to sign up checking with them. I
[2969.07] Lee: actually check with them. If you've already registered, one, you don't get your nine quid
[2975.39] Lee: back. Thanks very much for that. Yeah, cheers for that. And the other thing is that if you have
[2984.19] Lee: been issued with an operator ID, you don't have to put the operator ID, I understand, on your model
[2989.79] Lee: until the exemption runs out. Oh, one other quick question. I did have a really good question from
[2995.55] Lee: somebody at a club the other day, which is if I've got an operator ID, and my mate's got an
[3004.19] Lee: operator ID, and we're at the club, and I'm going to fly his plane, what do we do? Do I take his
[3011.79] Lee: number? Do I take his number sticker off? Do I put mine on? And by the sound of it, and again,
[3017.39] Lee: don't quote me on this, but Simon, the guy in charge of FPV UK was very generous and kind of
[3023.79] Lee: answered my kind of wacky question. It basically boils down to common sense. If you're just having
[3028.03] Lee: a quick buzz around the field with a mate's plane, you're both aware of that, and you're both in the
[3033.15] Lee: same place, and you know who's flying, then it sounded like it's perfectly fine for that little
[3038.03] Lee: flight for you not to change over everything. But if you were going to lend a model or a plane to a
[3044.11] Lee: pal who's going to have it for a couple of weeks and fly it when you're not around, it probably
[3048.03] Lee: makes sense for you to remove your operator ID and have them put theirs on it. So it's kind of
[3054.27] Lee: common central. It's not like whenever you hand over the sticks for your mate to have a go, you
[3059.31] Lee: have to say, hang on a minute, I've got to land it, and then carefully scrape off their operator ID
[3064.43] Lee: and put your own sticker on it. It's not quite that draconian. But you've got to remember that
[3069.47] Lee: if something happens and that model goes down, the person they're going to contact about that is
[3075.95] Lee: the one whose operator ID is on the model. So just be aware of that and kind of use common sense.
[3082.19] AndyRC: That's an interesting one from Richard. He says, I've got the PDF on my phone, is that good enough?
[3089.31] Frank: I would have thought so. Yeah, yeah.
[3091.39] Frank: Yeah, I would have thought so. Just if your phone dies.
[3095.63] Lee: I actually have them printed out and laminated in the back of my flight bag with the FPV,
[3100.91] Lee: UK insurance, and the exemption. Just more because if I am flying in an area and someone
[3107.87] Lee: comes up to me and go, you can't do that, it's illegal, because that's the voice they use.
[3111.95] Lee: Then I can pull the piece of paper out and go, actually, I'm flying under exemption, blah, blah,
[3116.27] Lee: blah, quote a load of technology numbers and bits and pieces, and they'll just hopefully be baffled
[3121.95] Lee: and just sod off. So I tend to have them printed out so that it's also something that I could show
[3127.95] Lee: to anybody who wants to argue the toss or is interested in what I'm doing.
[3133.71] Curry: I think if you reprint your, at least for FPV, UK, if you reprint your insurance document,
[3139.39] Curry: it will print out who you are and what certification you've passed as well. So you've
[3143.47] Curry: got it all in one document there, then you just have to have the exemption as well.
[3148.19] Lee: Great. Yeah, Jason, it's not my laminator, it's my wife's, she's a teacher.
[3153.79] Lee: Okay, so we've got eight minutes left and oh my God, we still not got back to this.
[3162.35] Lee: Did Batch in the Future have a fourth bit?
[3165.31] AndyRC: It should do.
[3169.23] AndyRC: Can you count Hot Tub Time Machine? Let's call it that one.
[3171.87] Lee: Yeah, definitely Hot Tub Time Machine. It's not canon, but we all know it's the same universe.
[3177.39] Lee: So last time, let's get back to some of the recommended kit. We talked about radios,
[3183.15] Lee: we talked about the fact that Free Sky used to be the one that we'd all recommend, but now we're
[3186.99] Lee: all a bit about the way that they've been executing with the radios and OpenTX and some of the closed
[3192.99] Lee: methodology they've been doing. We talked about goggles and came to the conclusion that there's
[3197.31] Lee: loads of different choice. Fat Shark is a really good choice, there are loads of others, and that
[3202.27] Lee: it really was what would fit on your face, because it was a very subjective decision.
[3210.19] Lee: The thing we were lamenting about, if you remember, is the fact there isn't any way you can really go
[3214.43] Lee: and try them out. I've had goggles here that don't fit very well and the IPD adjustment isn't
[3222.35] Lee: fantastic. I'm sure other people have had this. I've got the DJI HD stuff here and it's terrible.
[3228.67] Lee: You must have to have a face that's shaped like a breeze block in order for the default phone to
[3233.47] Lee: fit. But it's a bit of a shame when you spend 500 quid on a set of goggles, put them on, you go,
[3239.23] Lee: oh my God, that's really horrible. So we've done those two things.
[3244.99] Lee: What about some of the other stuff? Some of the things like, because I know,
[3250.03] Lee: Andy, I see you've done a lot of the little indoor toothpick stuff. That's one of the things that
[3256.51] Lee: if you had to choose your top two or three for that for people, what would be on your list?
[3265.47] AndyRC: We're talking for beginners or just- I think that's a great way to do it,
[3272.51] Lee: is the beginner, the intermediate, and the advanced kind of pilot. Because the thing is,
[3277.07] Lee: a lot of people, it's a great question you're asking, because a lot of people, when they get
[3282.35] Lee: asked what should I buy, we'll give the answer based on what we would having flown them for five
[3287.07] Lee: or six years. But that's not the same model that if it's the first proper one. So whichever way
[3294.51] AndyRC: works for you, I think that's a great way to think about it. Yeah. I think we've covered the
[3303.23] AndyRC: direction before, didn't we, where I said there's two directions. You can go the simulator route,
[3308.83] AndyRC: which I think is probably the best, because you can crash over and over again, and then you can
[3315.95] AndyRC: buy your model. But one of my favorite line of models is the Emacs Tiny Hawk. They're really
[3327.23] AndyRC: reliable. The Mobulous Six, I'm actually- I received mine so late because they were just
[3338.43] AndyRC: that popular. This thing is just, oh, it's a game changer. It's brilliant. But yeah,
[3347.15] AndyRC: somebody commented earlier, I can't remember who it was, but they said, order the Mobulous Six,
[3354.83] AndyRC: but it's not- The audience cancelled, yeah. I think that's a really bad thing to do, because
[3362.75] AndyRC: what's happened, you have to remember, ours section of the hobby is very small.
[3372.27] AndyRC: Financially, it has impacted the hobby greatly, hobby companies. So they're behind, right? So if
[3383.87] AndyRC: you have got an order and you're canceling it, thinking that, oh, I'll just wait until they're
[3390.35] AndyRC: in stock, if you cancel your orders, then they're going to stop making them. So I would say,
[3401.07] AndyRC: don't cancel your orders. Be patient and wait, because we could end up in a situation where I
[3408.19] AndyRC: know for a fact that just talking to retailers and individual companies, as I'm sure you all do,
[3417.31] AndyRC: there are some people that may have to shut up shop, because the waiting time is so long,
[3426.35] AndyRC: but that's because they haven't been making them, and it takes time to make this stuff. So I would
[3433.55] AndyRC: say, be careful canceling orders just because, oh, it's going to take this amount of time. It's
[3441.31] AndyRC: going to take that amount of time for it to reach the UK, because everything comes from China.
[3446.83] Lee: Mr. Shady just qualified that, and it was a two-day processing when he ordered it. As soon as he'd
[3453.07] Lee: ordered it, they upped it to 32 days, which is why he's cancelled it. I guess that kind of makes
[3457.87] Frank: sense. I had that same issue with the replacement base plate I ordered for the Tyro 79. It says,
[3464.59] Frank: oh, yes, we'll get this to you next week. I was like, I don't think you will, but I'll try it,
[3469.07] Frank: and then I ordered it, and it immediately said, oh, this will take a couple of months.
[3474.19] Frank: Okay, I'll wait.
[3475.79] Lee: So, Curry, what about you for indoor flyers? Have you got any ones that have kind of impressed you,
[3481.31] Lee: things like the Mobula and the Tiny Hawk?
[3483.87] Curry: Almost exactly the same as Andy. In my written down stuff, I've written down the E-Max Tiny
[3487.95] Curry: Hawk, certainly for a beginner, and I've only had the original Tiny Hawk. I haven't looked at
[3491.79] Curry: the two or the other one. I think E-Max do such a good job on their tune that immediately I could
[3498.19] Curry: pick it up, and I could just let loose with it. So I think that's quite friendly for a beginner
[3502.67] Curry: point of view. If you want to go and really rip and you're a little bit more experienced,
[3506.91] Curry: I think that's where stuff like the Mobula comes in. What's that beach FPV? Well, I can't remember,
[3511.47] Curry: which is it feels almost the same as the Mobula. Again, very hard.
[3515.47] AndyRC: Are you talking Mobula 7?
[3518.75] Curry: The Mobula 6, I'm talking about for indoors.
[3521.63] AndyRC: What for a more experienced person?
[3523.95] AndyRC: You don't choose.
[3526.19] AndyRC: See, I would say they're pretty even Stevens when it comes to from a beginner's standpoint.
[3536.67] Lee: That's really interesting.
[3542.75] Lee: If you look at the settings in Betaflight, the amount of expo and stuff that's in Betaflight,
[3546.83] Lee: if you look on both of them, the way it's set up and tuned for E-Max by default is a much softer,
[3554.03] Lee: more forgiving setup than is. For me personally, the Mobula 6, it's flight like you stole it
[3560.43] Lee: territory, whereas the E-Max is a lovely relaxing flight. You can make them both fly the same by
[3566.59] Lee: tweaking. Again, we might be in territory where we talked before about pre-production units and
[3571.95] Lee: stuff, but going into Betaflight and looking at the differences, there was huge setups and
[3578.27] Lee: differences in things like rates and expo and stuff. It was quite clear that E-Max were on the
[3583.31] Lee: one that I had. We're going for very gentle flying, which would suit beginner intermediate
[3588.27] Lee: pilots. The Mobula 6 was definitely more towards the higher end because the Mobula 6 is ridiculous.
[3599.15] Curry: What I always like to do, Lee, when I get a quad is I like to fly it as it came without
[3603.47] Curry: fiddling with anything. Although, as you say, you can go and tune them down from a beginner point
[3609.23] Curry: of view, especially if they're coming into Betaflight cold, it's a bit intimidating to look
[3613.87] Curry: from that. That's why I always think E-Max do a much better job at saying you can just take this,
[3618.27] Curry: you can fly it. When you're used to it, you can zap it up a bit as opposed to having to get
[3622.99] Curry: something and bring the throttle down and bring the rates way down and all sorts until you get
[3627.63] AndyRC: this under control a little bit more. A problem that I found with the tiny Hawk and those low
[3634.03] AndyRC: rates is you were talking about the first version, aren't you? But the second version
[3641.31] AndyRC: is 2S capable, you see. Yes, so was the first one. It came with a 1S and a 2S battery,
[3649.79] Curry: but if you fly it, 1S indoors. I don't think so. I guess 1S only, the first one.
[3657.79] Lee: I think the very first one was 1S, but there have been so many different versions.
[3662.27] Lee: So basically, we're all kind of in agreement. E-Max make amazing stuff and at the moment,
[3669.71] Lee: the best is the going to be your Mobula 6. The quality in my experience with Mobula 6 is not
[3674.83] Lee: an E-Max level, but it is more like a highly tuned sports car as opposed to a little bit of a truck
[3681.71] AndyRC: which the E-Max stuff is. Yeah, out of the box, it's more angry, but it's difficult to put yourself
[3688.67] AndyRC: into a beginner shoe. The issue that I had with the docile rates with the tiny Hawk is that if
[3696.11] AndyRC: you've bought it and you stick 2S on it and fly it outside and it's windy, but you're stuck in
[3701.95] AndyRC: angle mode, it's set to 25 degrees. So the tiniest of breeze and the thing will just fly away with
[3710.03] AndyRC: the wind, that was my issue with the tiny Hawk. I don't fly outdoors in angle mode.
[3716.03] Lee: I did exactly the same thing and the problem is as I increased the power to try and bring it back,
[3722.51] Lee: all it did was increase the altitude, which was not helping. I'm just conscious we've been going
[3729.71] Lee: for an hour. We might just get one more thing off the list of recommendations. There's only another
[3736.03] Lee: six to go. Thank you to everyone for their time tonight. I'll start wrapping things up here.
[3741.55] Lee: Again, support everybody, support the hobby. If you see somebody that needs some help,
[3747.31] Lee: get involved, share your experiences, share the love. We're all in this hobby together. We've
[3752.67] Lee: got enough people on the outside of it taking a pop. So let's not try and give them any more
[3758.99] Lee: ammunition. Tonight, for LDO 237, you have had Curry Kitten. Goodbye. You have had Andrew,
[3768.43] Frank: slash Frank. Tonight. And you've had Andy R.C. I just want to give a quick shout out. A couple
[3778.67] Frank: of days ago, the 2020 lineup of the drone's life sponsor pilots were announced. So I want to give
[3785.79] Frank: congratulations to NGFPV, Gcrashcraft, DSMXFPV, BanditFPV, SoilFPV, SmokeOutFPV, SpeedSlothFPV,
[3797.15] Lee: and their very own Aries. Well done, guys. Congratulations. And I have been painless
[3804.27] Lee: 360. So as always, happy flying and goodbye. Bye. Bye. Telemetry loss.