=== Let's Drone Out — Episode 252 ===
Title: LDO 252 - Everyone quit because it's too hot!
Recorded: 2020-06-25
Hosts: Andrew "Frank" Hyams, Jack "Brightontillifly" Nash, Wayne "CurryKitten" Andrews
Guest(s): Lee "Painless360" Schofield
Total audience: 1,779
Platforms: YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFvcEj7vMcg); SoundCloud (http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/feeds.soundcloud.com/stream/847814347-letsdroneout-ldo-252-everyone-quit-because-its-too-hot.mp3)
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[0.0] Curry: Welcome to Let's Drone Out, the original and best drone theme podcast.
[5.0] Curry: We record the show live on the Thursday night on youtube.com forward slash Let's Drone Out
[9.8] Curry: and our lovely patrons help with the editing costs.
[12.2] Curry: These are Wacky Wes, Mikey Dread, Art Faulkner, Carlos Campos.
[19.0] Curry: Thank you.
[20.2] Jack: Hello and welcome back to another episode of Let's Drone Out or what's left of it.
[57.65] Jack: We are joined by Andrew slash Frank.
[61.85] Jack: Good evening.
[63.05] Jack: My buddy, my emergency life flotation ring.
[70.65] Jack: Hello, evening.
[74.05] Jack: And I'm bright until I fly and summer's here people.
[81.65] Lee: Is it warm enough for everybody because I'm sweating cobs in here at the moment.
[86.65] Lee: So apologies if I look very shiny.
[88.65] Jack: I've got a nice sea breeze, but the only thing is that breeze is hot.
[93.65] Jack: I might as well put my fan in my oven.
[99.65] Jack: That's what it feels like.
[101.65] Frank: I was, you know, I've been fine all day and then I left the nice air conditioned office
[105.65] Frank: and then it's, you know, nearly killed me walking home, but there we go.
[109.65] Jack: You have got a con unit in the corner there.
[112.65] Frank: It doesn't have a low fan setting.
[115.65] Lee: And while it's going across the bottom for anyone listening to an audio,
[118.65] Lee: any views expressed by any guests on this show are personal or may not affect
[122.65] Lee: or reflect the views of others.
[124.65] Lee: So anything we say, it's not the show that you see.
[128.65] Lee: There we go.
[129.65] Lee: We've done the legal stuff.
[130.65] Lee: Although to be fair with only three of us on the show.
[132.65] Lee: I'm not actually, you know what?
[134.65] Lee: I'm not going to say that.
[136.65] Lee: It's tempting fate.
[140.65] Jack: You are very well behaved normally.
[144.65] Lee: Yeah.
[145.65] Lee: Well, only when the cameras were on when, yeah, when we're off there,
[147.65] Lee: it's a different matter.
[149.65] Jack: I think I got a glimpse of Mrs. Painless just walking past.
[153.65] Lee: What about?
[154.65] Lee: No, I know until the side about there.
[156.65] Lee: Yeah.
[157.65] Lee: Yeah.
[158.65] Lee: Wow.
[159.65] Lee: She does exist.
[161.65] Lee: Actually, it's a little cardboard cutout on a train track.
[164.65] Lee: You'll see it come back in about two minutes.
[167.65] Lee: It's a little RG Rover going past.
[171.65] Lee: Yeah, we'll be doing that next RG Rover.
[173.65] Lee: I've been getting questions about that.
[175.65] Lee: While we are only a small but perfectly formed group of three this evening,
[181.65] Lee: all of you in the chat, hello to everybody.
[184.65] Lee: We have got a list of things we're going to talk about.
[188.65] Lee: There has actually been some planning this evening.
[192.65] Lee: But we do have a chance tonight with a slightly smaller group to answer
[198.65] Lee: questions and talk about topics that you're interested in.
[202.65] Lee: If you in the chat have something that you're interested in,
[205.65] Lee: a topic, a problem, a question, something you want us to comment on
[209.65] Lee: or discuss on the show, it's a great opportunity tonight with less of us
[213.65] Lee: to pop that in and we'll try and cover as much of those as we can,
[217.65] Lee: as well as get through all the things that we're going to have a chat about tonight.
[220.65] Lee: So, pop your question if you're in the live chat
[224.65] Lee: and we'll try and keep track of those and pick them up as we go along.
[227.65] Lee: So, who's been flying this week?
[231.31] Lee: Not me.
[235.14] Lee: No.
[236.14] Lee: Frank, are you still in work at the moment, Frank, then?
[240.14] Lee: Yes.
[241.14] Frank: Still been working, not the weekend,
[246.14] Frank: but I've still got to fix that wing
[251.14] Frank: and it just sat there on the floor with me looking at it,
[256.14] Frank: occasionally going, oh, just knowing that whatever I open up
[262.14] Frank: and find in there, it's going to be painful to fix.
[266.14] Jack: He was asking me a very interesting question.
[269.14] Jack: He goes, which ESC protocol doesn't have PWM?
[273.14] Jack: Is it BL Heli S, BL Heli 32?
[279.14] Jack: What was the other question?
[281.14] Jack: Which is the full flight controller thing?
[285.14] Jack: He's made a little...
[286.14] Frank: Between the FRSky receivers, the XSR or the XM+,
[292.14] Frank: which one was it that has the full range
[294.14] Frank: and which one is it that is the kind of cut down range?
[298.14] Lee: They're both full range, allegedly,
[301.14] Lee: but the XM plus doesn't have telemetry.
[304.14] Lee: That was it.
[307.14] Lee: Because of the one antenna?
[309.14] Lee: No, the XM plus has two antennas.
[311.14] Lee: The XM or the X, whatever it was, had the one.
[314.14] Jack: Oh, yes, that was it.
[316.14] Lee: That was it.
[318.14] Lee: And now we've got all the archer receivers, of course.
[323.14] Lee: Archer receivers?
[326.14] Lee: Yeah.
[327.14] Lee: That's all the new access.
[329.14] Lee: So that's the new stuff.
[330.14] Lee: I've got a video coming out.
[333.14] Lee: And sadly, speaking to Free Sky,
[336.14] Lee: because they sent me one of the archer receivers
[338.14] Lee: to have a play with.
[340.14] Lee: And access is actually a really good idea
[343.14] Lee: because it has lots of things.
[345.14] Lee: None of it is new, by the way,
[346.14] Lee: but it has lots of cool ideas, like over-the-air updates,
[349.14] Lee: the ability to...
[352.14] Lee: Yeah, because it's not 5.0.
[354.14] Lee: Hasn't been doing it.
[355.14] Lee: Yeah, absolutely.
[356.14] Lee: Get the pitchforks.
[358.14] Lee: But the ability to have multiple radios bounce one receiver,
[361.14] Lee: multiple receivers bounce one radio, lower latency,
[364.14] Lee: blah, blah, blah.
[365.14] Lee: There's a whole list of stuff, right?
[367.14] Lee: So the new archer receivers have come out,
[369.14] Lee: which are access only.
[371.14] Lee: Some of the older receivers, like the RXSR
[374.14] Lee: and things like that, could do AWCST and access.
[378.14] Lee: And they sent me a new one of the archer receivers
[380.14] Lee: to play with.
[381.14] Lee: And it's very nice.
[384.48] Lee: But I kind of said,
[385.48] Lee: so what does this mean for AWCST X series receivers?
[389.48] Lee: And they kind of went, oh, we're not developing them anymore.
[393.48] Lee: I was like, great.
[395.48] Lee: So the fact I've got like 30 or 40 X series receivers
[399.48] Lee: are varying size shapes, you know, XM pluses, X4Rs,
[403.48] Lee: if you remember then, X8Rs,
[405.48] Lee: more than I can shake a stick at.
[408.48] Lee: It's a good job I've got so many,
[409.48] Lee: because I think once I've used all those up,
[411.48] Lee: I'll be using something else, although...
[413.48] Frank: Is that the thing then?
[414.48] Frank: So if you've got an access radio,
[416.48] Frank: you've got the new, a new FLSky radio, it's access.
[419.48] Frank: Yes.
[420.48] Lee: Well, they come with D16, AWCST and access.
[424.48] Lee: They come with both.
[426.48] Lee: So you can flip between the two.
[430.48] Lee: And then if you go into the access menu,
[432.48] Lee: you'll notice there's these things called,
[434.48] Lee: I think it's like register.
[435.48] Lee: So you have to register it first and then you bind to it.
[438.48] Lee: So the way that binding works is different.
[441.48] Frank: Oh, is that because you can have the different options
[443.48] Frank: of it being a master or a slave in a kind of...
[445.48] Lee: Yeah, and it's not, because the way AWCST works
[449.48] Lee: is the bind kind of ID that the receiver has is,
[453.48] Lee: part of it is the radio, unique radio ID,
[456.48] Lee: and the other half is the model number.
[459.48] Lee: So that's why you have to rebind it
[461.48] Lee: because every radio has its own ID.
[463.48] Lee: However, the multiple protocol boys
[466.48] Lee: are playing with the cloning function.
[469.48] Lee: So you can actually make one radio,
[472.48] Lee: pretend it's another radio so that you can do that anyway.
[476.48] Lee: So there's a lot of stuff going on,
[478.48] Lee: but long story short, yeah,
[480.48] Lee: the X-Series receivers is dead.
[484.48] Lee: I should have been wearing a black arm band for that.
[487.48] Lee: Long live the X-Series.
[488.48] Lee: Long live the X-Series.
[490.48] Lee: Access is a fad.
[492.48] Lee: Because I've been flying the X-Series for four odd years
[495.48] Lee: and they're just bloody great little receivers.
[499.48] Frank: The reason I was asking Jack about which one of it
[503.48] Frank: is the good one, essentially, was the question.
[506.48] Frank: It's because there's a guy way up at the other end of this building,
[511.48] Frank: just a long low-rise apartment building.
[515.48] Frank: And I just, like months ago,
[520.48] Frank: heard some noise out the window.
[522.48] Frank: I was like, ah, that sounds like a drone.
[524.48] Frank: Ah, got drones in the brain.
[526.48] Frank: It must be like an electric skater or something.
[528.48] Frank: It's like a tiny hawk flying outside my window.
[531.48] Frank: Ah, got the fat sharks out, took some DVR,
[535.48] Frank: put it up on the local Facebook groups being like,
[538.48] Frank: is this anyone? Hello? I'm here.
[542.48] Frank: And got in touch with him that way.
[545.48] Frank: But he's fairly new to it.
[547.48] Frank: And he was struggling.
[549.48] Frank: He can get more than 10, 15 metres away from him
[552.48] Frank: before his quab was falling out of the sky.
[555.48] Frank: But he was on...
[558.48] Frank: It wasn't even a fly-sky radio thing.
[561.48] Frank: But it was some kind of almost like a knock-off of a fly-sky radio.
[566.48] Frank: Something really dirt cheap and just wasn't very good.
[571.48] Frank: And I just said, you know, here you go.
[574.48] Frank: Get a jumper. You'll be all right.
[577.48] Frank: And so he's...
[579.48] Frank: And that's multi-protocol bound with his receivers.
[582.48] Frank: And that's all worked fine.
[583.48] Frank: He can now fly perfectly fine and he's all right with it
[586.48] Frank: and solved his range anxiety.
[591.48] Frank: But then he's looking to get a wing.
[596.48] Frank: And so I've sent him some of your videos of quads
[600.48] Frank: to wing pilot and mini AR wing and all that kind of stuff.
[607.48] Frank: Here you go.
[608.48] Frank: This is what you need to watch to answer your questions.
[612.48] Frank: But he was kind of like, what's the best receiver for?
[615.48] Frank: Because he'd made a little list of all the parts he was going to need.
[618.48] Frank: And for this radio, what's the best receiver to use?
[623.48] Frank: And I was like, I've used...
[625.48] Frank: I would stick with the FR sky ones
[627.48] Frank: and I used the X4RS-B for, you know, when I'm using PWM ones
[636.48] Frank: or I would use the XSR for the S bus.
[641.48] Lee: Yeah, I did the same.
[643.48] Lee: The thing is for a wing, you just need the S bus output.
[646.48] Lee: And sometimes it's got two antennas that you can put, you know,
[649.48] Lee: kind of 90 degrees to give you some antenna alignment
[653.48] Lee: as your band can roll around.
[655.48] Lee: I tend to use those little XM pluses.
[658.48] Lee: Somebody in the chat actually said a really good thing,
[661.48] Lee: which I... Where are you?
[664.48] Lee: About the fact that the XM plus is the later...
[668.48] Lee: It's some of the firmwares.
[670.48] Lee: I think auxiliary channel 12 is your RSSI.
[675.48] Lee: So you just set your RSSI channel in beta flight to that.
[678.48] Lee: And it's a nice, cute thing.
[680.48] Lee: You don't get the telemetry back.
[682.48] Lee: So I'll use one with telemetry if I'm using INAF
[685.48] Lee: because I tend to like having the lower scripts
[687.48] Lee: that have the artificial horizon
[689.48] Lee: and the number of satellites and battery status and all that jazz.
[693.48] Lee: I know my mate's always impressed
[695.48] Lee: with the whole ZOHD dart
[698.48] Lee: that's got the brain FPV stuff in it running INAF.
[700.48] Lee: And the telemetry comes down over a XSR, I think it might be,
[704.48] Lee: I think it might be that in it,
[706.48] Lee: of a smart port and it's got the Lua script on it.
[708.48] Lee: And my radio, when I plug it in,
[710.48] Lee: it tells me that 3D lock, 3D home achieved.
[715.48] Lee: And then when you throw it, it then also says, you know,
[718.48] Lee: 90% battery remaining.
[720.48] Lee: It kind of counts it out as you're flying.
[722.48] Lee: And he just thinks that is science fiction.
[725.48] Lee: You can move the plane on your little screen
[728.48] Lee: and on the color screens,
[730.48] Lee: things like the jumper and the radio master stuff,
[732.48] Lee: it just looks like a proper,
[735.48] Lee: looks like the bottom half of the old flight simulators
[738.48] Lee: on the PC back in the 80s.
[739.48] Lee: You know that with the artificial horizon
[741.48] Lee: and all your numbers, it looks fantastic.
[743.48] Frank: It's always great when you kind of introduce
[746.48] Frank: like an old school fixed-wing pilot to OpenTX
[751.48] Frank: and they're like, but which one is the throttle?
[755.48] Frank: And it's like, you can pick, you can make a choice.
[759.48] Frank: It doesn't tell you.
[760.48] Frank: You can decide whatever you want and say, oh, I don't know.
[764.48] Frank: Witchcraft, kill it with fire.
[767.48] Frank: You can mix these and you can have switches
[770.48] Frank: doing all this stuff.
[771.48] Frank: And they're just like, that's,
[773.48] Lee: surely you need other boards to do that.
[776.48] Lee: No, it's just all in there.
[778.48] Lee: It's just people being really clever.
[780.48] Lee: A quick supplementary question about receivers.
[783.48] Lee: Robin asked, are the archer receivers going to work
[785.48] Lee: with all my old free sky stuff?
[788.48] Lee: Sadly, not an awful lot of the older radios,
[792.48] Lee: including my beloved Taranis, long may he reign,
[796.48] Lee: that's five years old, is not upgradeable.
[799.48] Lee: It will not support the new protocol for access.
[804.48] Lee: So unfortunately to support access,
[807.48] Lee: I've got to use one of the newer radios,
[809.48] Lee: lots and lots of the old receivers
[811.48] Lee: are not access capable either.
[813.48] Lee: So you'll note that the last couple of years
[817.48] Lee: they've been bringing out,
[818.48] Lee: they've been trying to build it in.
[820.48] Lee: But if you've been flying free sky for a long time,
[822.48] Lee: like I have, like a lot of us have,
[824.48] Lee: we'll have lots of kit that isn't access capable.
[827.48] Lee: And that's a bit of a shame.
[829.48] Lee: So yeah, be aware of that.
[832.48] Lee: For new pilots coming in,
[833.48] Lee: I think going straight to access would be great,
[835.48] Lee: just like those of us who joined just as,
[837.48] Lee: remember the D series was coming to an end
[839.48] Lee: and the X series started and we went to D16.
[843.48] Jack: And then that became the,
[844.48] Lee: I'm sure that the new protocols
[846.48] Lee: will be the same for new pilots.
[847.48] Lee: It's just for people like me, it's heartbreaking.
[850.48] Frank: And that was kind of a problem is,
[852.48] Frank: because he was buying all this kit from Unman Tech,
[855.48] Frank: I think it was.
[856.48] Frank: And he said,
[860.48] Frank: so one of these receivers,
[862.48] Frank: and looks at it and it's an XSR,
[864.48] Frank: but it's access, XSR.
[867.48] Frank: It's like, ah, no, you're going to have to,
[870.48] Frank: that's not the one you want,
[872.48] Frank: but that's the one that's in stock.
[874.48] Frank: So you're going to need to flash it,
[876.48] Frank: but it's a jumper,
[877.48] Frank: so it's not got an S port on there.
[881.48] Frank: So I don't know how that's going to,
[884.48] Frank: how are you going to flash?
[886.48] Frank: Can you flash?
[887.48] Frank: You get the little USB,
[890.48] Frank: you get the little USB adapter.
[892.48] Frank: It's probably not slick.
[897.48] Jack: It's that special,
[899.48] Jack: they made like a little mini USB one
[902.48] Jack: and it's got like a diode in it for some reason
[905.48] Jack: and the signal's backwards.
[907.48] Jack: Also, a question that I had was,
[909.48] Jack: if you remember,
[910.48] Jack: you know the ACCSTD16 firmware,
[915.48] Jack: they updated it and it won't,
[919.48] Jack: you know, it won't work with the old,
[923.48] Jack: please update the firmware of all your radios,
[926.48] Jack: RF modules and receivers accordingly,
[929.48] Jack: but they've hidden the thing,
[931.48] Jack: it's like a history firmware download,
[933.48] Jack: not compatible with V2.XX,
[937.48] Jack: so it is still available on the FreeSky website.
[943.48] Jack: What's like, is it the S port USB?
[952.48] Frank: Peter Marshall just said,
[954.48] Frank: he just did the upgrade on his Horace X10S
[956.48] Frank: to support access and that's not for the faint-hearted
[959.48] Frank: because it needed desoldering things,
[962.48] Frank: adding resistors in all sorts.
[966.48] Frank: Blimey Charlie.
[967.48] Frank: Bit grim.
[968.48] Frank: Yeah.
[969.48] Frank: Oh my God, really?
[971.48] Frank: To update a radio to be able to buy new receivers,
[975.48] Frank: that seems, I guess,
[980.5] Frank: trying to make it more work than buying a new radio, I guess,
[984.5] Frank: but if I'm going to buy a new radio,
[986.5] Frank: I've got a second guess buying an FLSky radio at the moment,
[989.5] Frank: to be honest, but there we go.
[991.5] Lee: Well, there's lots of people in the chat talking about Crossfire
[994.5] Lee: and if you're a Crossfire pilot,
[995.5] Lee: then you're not going to buy FreeSky
[997.5] Lee: because FreeSky still aren't putting in
[1000.5] Lee: the full-speed inverters in their radios.
[1003.5] Lee: They're using the slower chip
[1005.5] Lee: and in fact, speaking to Trappie yesterday,
[1008.5] Lee: the new X10 that they've just,
[1010.5] Lee: the new updated latest version of the X10,
[1012.5] Lee: they have again put in the slower inverter
[1015.5] Lee: so you can't run CRSF at full speed at all.
[1018.5] Lee: Why would you do that?
[1023.83] Lee: Why would you do that?
[1024.83] Lee: However, the jumper and the radio master
[1027.83] Lee: both have the full-speed inverter
[1030.83] Lee: and they both support Crossfire at full tilt
[1033.83] Lee: because the chip is five cents more expensive.
[1036.83] Lee: It's not about the price of the chip.
[1038.83] Lee: It's a decision.
[1041.83] Lee: It sounds like they're making and it's just such a shame
[1044.83] Lee: because I love FreeSky
[1046.83] Lee: and I just wish they'd give us a radio that we want.
[1051.83] Frank: It is a difficult thing
[1054.83] Frank: because all these things do take a fair,
[1057.83] Frank: as Trappie is going to be the first to say,
[1060.83] Frank: it takes a lot of investment to get this sort of stuff,
[1063.83] Frank: like a protocol, like the hardware, the chips,
[1068.83] Frank: the boards, the actual assembly, the finished units,
[1072.83] Frank: all this stuff takes a lot of investment to get going
[1076.83] Frank: and it's a difficult thing to build a business model
[1079.83] Frank: around all of that kind of stuff,
[1081.83] Frank: but there's different ways of going about it.
[1084.83] Frank: So, you know, there was the spectrum kind of deal
[1089.83] Frank: is that they've actively, I'm pretty sure,
[1094.83] Frank: actively aimed their whole ecosystem to be around,
[1098.83] Frank: will have these radios,
[1102.83] Frank: but then try and get as many bind-and-flies
[1106.83] Frank: going as possible,
[1108.83] Frank: like in terms of foamies and kits and all that kind of thing,
[1111.83] Frank: like DSM-II, GSM-X is everywhere.
[1114.83] Frank: So that must be like a thing that they've pushed
[1117.83] Frank: because they know if people want to have a nice easy way
[1121.83] Frank: into a lot of these models,
[1123.83] Frank: they're going to want to use spectrum that way.
[1125.83] Frank: So I would imagine they probably make their money
[1129.83] Frank: on licensing probably the protocol
[1133.83] Frank: and also selling the radios,
[1135.83] Frank: I imagine is roughly where they're going.
[1137.83] Frank: And then you've got, you know, the TBS.
[1142.83] Frank: I imagine probably the more money is made
[1145.83] Frank: on selling the receivers, I would imagine,
[1149.83] Frank: which is why they're, you know,
[1151.83] Frank: you don't see too many licensed crossfire receivers.
[1156.83] Frank: That's not really a thing.
[1158.83] Lee: No, the thing is with crossfire is crossfire
[1161.83] Lee: is both the hardware and the software,
[1163.83] Lee: and although you can rip the hardware off on him,
[1167.83] Lee: then you, in terms of the software side,
[1169.83] Lee: that's a little bit more interesting.
[1171.83] Lee: So it's the two parts together.
[1174.83] Lee: Interestingly, I think Winter Blue on here,
[1177.83] Lee: Hello to James, he's saying that Horizon,
[1179.83] Lee: Hobby and Spectrum are the same, or sister companies,
[1183.83] Lee: which it's a shame that something like that
[1187.83] Lee: doesn't exist for some of these other protocols.
[1189.83] Lee: Because my mate, when he first started getting
[1192.83] Lee: into the hobby with the modern stuff,
[1195.83] Lee: I went over to fly with him, and he literally had
[1198.83] Lee: three or four Horizon hobby planes,
[1202.83] Lee: all with a safe technology.
[1204.83] Lee: Do you remember that stuff?
[1205.83] Lee: And they all came with a little placky radio.
[1208.83] Lee: And so he had like a radio for each of them
[1210.83] Lee: with the double A batteries.
[1211.83] Lee: You know, he must have been keeping Jerusalem alive.
[1216.83] Lee: So every, and then I kind of had a look at it
[1218.83] Lee: and went, no, this is nuts.
[1219.83] Lee: Hang on a minute.
[1220.83] Lee: We'll get you, well, back then it was an orange radio
[1223.83] Lee: from Hobbykink, the DSM capable ones.
[1226.83] Lee: Oh my word.
[1227.83] Lee: And we actually replaced all of these placky radios
[1231.83] Lee: with horrible gimbals, because he had a problem
[1233.83] Lee: with one of the planes, he'd be flying away,
[1236.83] Lee: and it'll, you know, and then suddenly
[1238.83] Lee: the throttle would just go, and he'd dead stick it.
[1242.83] Lee: And then it moved the throttle around,
[1245.83] Lee: and then he'd catch the track again,
[1248.83] Lee: and then the throttle would start up.
[1250.83] Lee: Oh, I see.
[1252.83] Lee: Oh.
[1253.83] Lee: It's not a signal thing.
[1255.83] Frank: It's the actual gimbal,
[1257.83] Frank: the potentiometer on the axis of the gimbal
[1260.83] Frank: has a dead spot.
[1262.83] Frank: And he always found that, yeah.
[1264.83] Lee: And of course, when he was panicking,
[1266.83] Lee: he didn't think of that.
[1267.83] Lee: So in the end, we gave him this other radio,
[1269.83] Lee: which was Spectrum, and then he's now,
[1271.83] Lee: he's been Free Sky.
[1272.83] Lee: He's been Free Sky for about three, four years.
[1274.83] Lee: I forgot I'm on the Sharanis.
[1276.83] Lee: But you're right, all that bind-to-fly stuff.
[1279.83] Lee: I mean, even things like the E-Flight,
[1282.83] Lee: all that stuff was Spectrum.
[1284.83] Lee: I don't know if it still is.
[1285.83] Lee: I've still got some of the little helicopters.
[1288.83] Frank: Absolutely.
[1289.83] Frank: Because this is why I got Jack to put it together.
[1292.83] Frank: But I got a kit to make a DSM.
[1296.83] Frank: I got one of the cheapest Spectrum radios
[1301.83] Frank: that's like no computer, no screen on it.
[1304.83] Frank: It's got like two switches for reverse servos or something.
[1306.83] Frank: But it uses the same module as anything else.
[1309.83] Frank: And there was a module, JR module bay,
[1312.83] Frank: and a kit to put this together,
[1314.83] Frank: to put that in the bay of the Taranis.
[1318.83] Frank: And that way, you can do model matching
[1323.83] Frank: and all full features of Spectrum
[1325.83] Frank: that you wouldn't be able to do
[1327.83] Frank: with like an orange module or a multi-protocol module
[1330.83] Frank: at the time anyway.
[1332.83] Frank: I don't know if you can now.
[1334.83] Frank: But yeah, that was because there's a load of binding
[1336.83] Frank: fly models, and I quite liked the look of them.
[1339.83] Frank: I've got a few.
[1341.83] Frank: Well, there we go.
[1343.83] Lee: But they could just, they could be really good,
[1345.83] Lee: and they could make it, hopefully,
[1347.83] Lee: and ideally have a simpler way
[1349.83] Lee: so that the model memory for your radio
[1351.83] Lee: is kind of pre-set up,
[1353.83] Lee: so you could kind of load that onto the radio as well
[1355.83] Lee: and do the binding.
[1357.83] Lee: It could actually be really smart.
[1359.83] Lee: It could be loads of things that you could do.
[1361.83] Lee: But yeah, none of that seems to be done at the moment.
[1364.83] Lee: We'll see what happens with the multi-protocol stuff.
[1367.83] Frank: But it just seems like Efelska kind of,
[1370.83] Frank: they don't want to let anyone else have any kind of access.
[1377.83] Frank: They don't want to license out the receivers
[1379.83] Frank: because, I mean, the X series and the D8 and D16
[1382.83] Frank: and all that kind of stuff was all ripped off,
[1384.83] Frank: and I'm 95% certain none of that was licensed.
[1389.83] Frank: I can't imagine Efelska saw any of that money.
[1392.83] Lee: Yeah, I'm pretty confident that that was all reverse engineered too,
[1395.83] Lee: allegedly.
[1396.83] Frank: So I can imagine they're a bit bitter about that.
[1399.83] Frank: But I would have thought then you switch up your business model
[1403.83] Frank: so you make the money on the radios
[1405.83] Frank: and you make some really, really top-end radios
[1407.83] Frank: and you get some really nice software and support,
[1411.83] Frank: and you just kind of go with that,
[1413.83] Frank: okay, our receivers are going to be ripped off.
[1416.83] Frank: That's not where we're going to make our money.
[1418.83] Frank: We're going to need to do it on the radio.
[1420.83] Frank: Or like you say, other features that have a database of stuff
[1426.83] Frank: that people can upload their model to
[1429.83] Frank: and it just downloads to your radio or whatever else.
[1433.83] Frank: They seem to have not gone, they're just like,
[1437.83] Frank: ah, people have ripped off our radios, ripped off our receivers.
[1442.83] Frank: Oh, other people are using our radios with their protocols.
[1447.83] Frank: So we're going to stop that from happening.
[1450.83] Frank: So now our radios are less useful.
[1452.83] Frank: And then, oh, other people are using the software
[1456.83] Frank: that's on our radios and making other radios.
[1458.83] Frank: And they seem to be kind of like,
[1460.83] Frank: oh, people are finding uses for our hardware.
[1463.83] Frank: Well, we must put a stop to that.
[1465.83] Frank: And it seems to be rather than building an ecosystem,
[1468.83] Frank: they're actively removing all their hardware
[1471.83] Frank: from any of these ecosystems.
[1473.83] Frank: It seems very odd.
[1474.83] Lee: Yeah, I think you're right.
[1476.83] Lee: I've done a couple of videos on the things like the jumper,
[1480.83] Lee: the new jumper that came out and the RadioMaster Tix 16S
[1484.83] Lee: or whatever it is.
[1486.83] Lee: And these are quite new radios, right?
[1488.83] Lee: So we don't know how they're all going to survive.
[1493.83] Lee: And the thing that makes me laugh,
[1495.83] Lee: and that kind of linking onto that comment that just came on the screen,
[1498.83] Lee: is when the Tyrannus first came out,
[1500.83] Lee: bear in mind, for instance, I didn't create the Tyrannus,
[1502.83] Lee: they inherited that design from somewhere else.
[1505.83] Lee: A lot of people got it and tried it out,
[1508.83] Lee: coming from Spectrum or Futaba or high-tech radios,
[1512.83] Lee: the radios that cost three times as much as the Tyrannus did.
[1516.83] Lee: I remember I got my first Tyrannus and played with it and thought,
[1520.83] Lee: oh, this is a bit plasticky.
[1525.83] Lee: And you kind of don't know where it's going to go.
[1529.83] Lee: But we're kind of at that same initial stage
[1533.83] Lee: with things like the jumper and the RadioMaster.
[1536.83] Lee: You know, they only just come out.
[1538.83] Lee: We don't know how they're going to survive.
[1540.83] Lee: Both of them have taken lots of things that have been learnt
[1542.83] Lee: over the past year and a half with the internals
[1544.83] Lee: of things like the original T16,
[1546.83] Lee: which were problematic for a lot of pilots.
[1550.83] Lee: And people have been coming on to me and saying,
[1552.83] Lee: oh, you know, why are you talking about these radios?
[1554.83] Lee: They're crap. They're really cheap and nasty.
[1557.83] Lee: And you kind of go, no, hang on a minute.
[1559.83] Lee: If Free Sky had actually given us the radios
[1562.83] Lee: that the pilots had been after
[1564.83] Lee: and kept the infrastructure open to support all of the protocols
[1571.83] Lee: without having to redo your radio,
[1573.83] Lee: provide modules and upgrades and simple paths
[1576.83] Lee: and support things like Crossfire and all that jazz,
[1579.83] Lee: then there wouldn't be any place in the market.
[1582.83] Lee: Jumper would have sold a single radio.
[1584.83] Lee: Who's going to buy a jumper radio
[1586.83] Lee: where you can get a radio from Free Sky
[1588.83] Lee: who's been doing it for five years and doing it really well,
[1590.83] Lee: where it has all the features that you want.
[1592.83] Lee: The reason that Jumper, in my humble opinion,
[1595.83] Lee: and RadioMaster have a market is because Free Sky,
[1599.83] Lee: as you rightly said,
[1600.83] Lee: are trying to be more like a Tesla or an Apple
[1603.83] Lee: or one of these other kind of monolithic proprietary systems
[1607.83] Lee: rather than just saying, you know what?
[1609.83] Lee: We'll give you all the tools.
[1611.83] Lee: And we can't wait to see what you do with it.
[1613.83] Lee: And the really good stuff we'll implement
[1615.83] Lee: in future versions of the product.
[1617.83] Lee: It's the polar opposite of that.
[1619.83] Lee: Or it has felt like that to me for the last two and a half years.
[1623.83] Frank: I mean, that's really DJI's success,
[1626.83] Frank: has been letting the community find different things
[1630.83] Frank: and watch what they do and go, ah,
[1632.83] Frank: that's how people want to use it.
[1634.83] Frank: How do we make something that fills that need
[1638.83] Frank: and makes us loads of money?
[1640.83] Frank: Yeah.
[1641.83] Frank: Whereas that fast guy seems to be going,
[1643.83] Frank: ah, people are using it not in the way we intended
[1646.83] Frank: so let's not make money out of that.
[1648.83] Frank: Let's stop other people making money out of that.
[1651.83] Frank: Yeah.
[1653.83] Lee: If I had the radio with the same kind of,
[1657.83] Lee: they did the same stuff as the RadioMaster TX16S,
[1662.83] Lee: which is the one that I think I'm going to replace my Toronto's
[1665.83] Lee: when it eventually dies on my hearing.
[1668.83] Lee: The things that really impressed me is the multi-protocol module in there
[1673.83] Lee: support AWCST version one and it also supports AWCST version two.
[1679.83] Lee: My FreeSky radio can't do that.
[1682.83] Lee: Why can my FreeSky radio not do that
[1685.83] Lee: and a third-party radio that's using potentially,
[1688.83] Lee: allegedly cloned caveat versions of the technology just knock it out?
[1694.83] Lee: It's little things like that that just bug me.
[1697.83] Lee: If a FreeSky had a radio that did all that,
[1700.83] Lee: that would give me access to access,
[1704.83] Lee: access to access, access to,
[1706.83] Lee: but basically I could have almost any FreeSky receiver I wanted
[1711.83] Lee: and connect it to the radio and get it working.
[1714.83] Lee: I wouldn't buy the RadioMaster.
[1716.83] Lee: I'd be quite happy.
[1719.83] Lee: But they haven't.
[1721.83] Frank: The Chrome racer in the chat has said they want to be like Apple.
[1729.08] Frank: Again, Apple is all about building an ecosystem that people want to be in
[1734.08] Frank: and the hardware follows that in a way.
[1739.08] Lee: I think also that Apple are very monolithic.
[1742.08] Lee: They're not into working with third-party stuff.
[1745.08] Frank: That's the thing is they can do that
[1748.08] Frank: because they have complete vertical integration.
[1751.08] Frank: They do everything from the software OS.
[1756.08] Frank: They put everything together and they make this monolithic ecosystem
[1761.08] Frank: where if you're in there, it does everything you want it to do.
[1765.08] Lee: But that's the thing.
[1766.08] Lee: If you're in there, you have to buy the full pack of Kool-Aid.
[1770.08] Lee: You can't just pick bits that you like
[1773.08] Lee: because then if you go in, you're all in, you kind of disappear in.
[1778.08] Lee: I think that's the thing, particularly also with the GGI technology,
[1782.08] Lee: things like the HD system.
[1784.08] Lee: The HD system is a technical tour de force.
[1788.08] Lee: It took me a long time to get to grips with it.
[1792.08] Lee: And now it's one of my favorite ways to fly FPV.
[1795.08] Lee: I just wish that the GGI system played better with analog FPV.
[1801.08] Lee: And I know you can get it to work if you're careful,
[1804.08] Lee: but I would just like to not have to do all that buggering about.
[1809.08] Lee: But if I want to fly that,
[1812.08] Lee: we have to try and then figure out and get him as far away
[1815.08] Lee: on the legal channels as available.
[1817.08] Lee: So he's away from all this duplex HD data
[1821.08] Lee: that I'm about to just throw into the air.
[1823.08] Lee: Whereas if you and your mates are all DJI at the field,
[1827.08] Lee: it's a piece of cake, right?
[1828.08] Lee: Because you've got like what, eight channels or six,
[1830.08] Lee: whatever it is, wherever you are.
[1831.08] Lee: You just sort of choose the channel and away you go.
[1833.08] Lee: If you're flying with analog mates,
[1835.08] Lee: then that becomes really complicated.
[1837.08] Lee: And it's that kind of example where if,
[1840.08] Lee: for example, with the SharkBite stuff,
[1844.08] Lee: that has a very different technology.
[1846.08] Lee: That has the way it's been designed is surprise, surprise.
[1850.08] Lee: FactShark are designing the transmission technology
[1853.08] Lee: to use a narrower band,
[1855.08] Lee: which may mean we get a slightly lower picture to be confirmed.
[1860.08] Lee: We haven't all seen the latest version yet.
[1862.08] Lee: But it means that in terms of the way the channels work
[1865.08] Lee: for the SharkBite system and for the analog system,
[1869.08] Lee: they're kind of the same.
[1871.08] Lee: So it's easier for two of the guys at the field
[1874.08] Lee: to be flying HD or SharkBite,
[1876.08] Lee: and two or three other guys to be flying analog
[1879.08] Lee: and not to step on each other.
[1881.08] Lee: And it's things like that that really illustrates
[1883.08] Lee: the difference between those companies
[1885.08] Lee: who are kind of thinking about what's already out there
[1887.08] Lee: and trying to fit in with that ecosystem.
[1889.08] Lee: And those ones that just go,
[1891.08] Lee: well, no, we don't care about that.
[1893.08] Lee: We'll give you the best technology.
[1895.08] Lee: And it's kind of up to you to kind of show us
[1898.08] Lee: how you want to do it.
[1899.08] Lee: And those are kind of the two different camps, aren't they?
[1901.08] Frank: I think that's the thing is that if you look at
[1904.08] Frank: what people are doing with the stuff that you put out there
[1907.08] Frank: and you look and you grow your ecosystem,
[1910.08] Frank: you can get it to a point where it does cover everything
[1913.08] Frank: that a lot of people in the ecosystem want to do.
[1916.08] Frank: And then you can close off that ecosystem
[1919.08] Frank: and it will support itself, which is what DJI have done.
[1922.08] Frank: It's what Apple have done.
[1924.08] Frank: That works because once you have people in that ecosystem,
[1928.08] Frank: then you can close the doors and they can be locked in there.
[1931.08] Frank: But they're happy to be in there because it does everything
[1933.08] Frank: they want it to do.
[1934.08] Frank: What FL Sky are doing is going,
[1936.08] Frank: people like moving stuff in with lots of other things.
[1942.08] Frank: We're going to stop that from happening,
[1944.08] Frank: which is it's not building an ecosystem.
[1947.08] Frank: That's just making your stuff useless, which I mean,
[1951.08] Frank: it's not useless.
[1952.08] Frank: It's still very good.
[1954.08] Frank: It does lots of things,
[1955.08] Frank: but it's not what people bought into it for.
[1959.08] Lee: No, and it's not what people want.
[1961.08] Lee: If it was what people want,
[1963.08] Lee: Jumper and RadioMaster wouldn't have even had a look at it.
[1965.08] Frank: Exactly.
[1966.08] Lee: So, you know.
[1968.08] Lee: Exactly.
[1970.08] Lee: Mic drop.
[1972.08] Jack: That's what you get for having your first business model
[1975.08] Jack: the same as printers.
[1977.08] Jack: Sell the printer cheap and the ink high and it never works.
[1981.08] Lee: Well, I don't know if Gillette's done all right out of it.
[1984.08] Jack: HP are doing all right.
[1987.08] Lee: Sorry, Jack.
[1989.08] Lee: No, stop pissing on my forehead.
[1992.08] Lee: Yes, you're right, Jack.
[1993.08] Lee: That's absolutely right.
[1994.08] Lee: That's the way it works.
[1996.08] Frank: I'm going to go back to not talking now.
[1998.08] Frank: No, no, no.
[1999.08] Frank: This episode was recorded in front of a live online audience,
[2002.08] Frank: downloaded and edited to make sense when it played audio only,
[2006.08] Frank: censored to please the iTunes people,
[2008.08] Frank: hosted on the internet,
[2009.08] Frank: forwarded through to your podcast provider,
[2011.08] Frank: downloaded, playing on your device,
[2013.08] Frank: and is now playing in your ears.
[2015.08] Frank: All thanks to our Patreons.
[2017.08] Frank: Consider joining them and you'll also get other online benefits.
[2020.08] Jack: Find out more at patreon.com forward slash let's drone out.
[2024.08] Jack: I've been chatting to Clint.
[2031.08] Jack: He was asking about that.
[2033.08] Jack: So, you know, the little, is it like trans transistor that allows
[2041.08] Jack: the telemetry in the QX7 or whatever it is?
[2045.08] Lee: Oh, the inverter.
[2046.08] Lee: There's the inverter mod that you get in the board,
[2048.08] Lee: which is a little fingernail size thing.
[2052.08] Lee: In fact, I've got one over here.
[2054.08] Lee: I don't need to get it.
[2055.08] Lee: But yeah, yeah.
[2056.08] Lee: So that they tend to come in the crossfire kit and it's the invert.
[2060.08] Lee: It's a bit of a bugger to fit.
[2062.08] Lee: And someone was saying in the chat before that the X10
[2065.08] Lee: have changed the way the board layout is.
[2067.08] Lee: So it's even trickier to do it.
[2069.08] Lee: It just, yeah, it's just why do that?
[2076.08] Jack: Have you seen Peter Marshall?
[2078.08] Jack: Like he sent me over the video for the doing the mod to the Horace,
[2084.08] Jack: the Horace X10 access upgrade kit.
[2088.08] Jack: And it does.
[2089.08] Jack: It does literally evolve like getting the old hot air out.
[2092.08] Jack: And, you know, you might be able to do it than I am,
[2095.08] Jack: but that is pretty, pretty mean.
[2100.08] Jack: He also asked another question as well,
[2102.08] Jack: is why can't they create an access module for the JR Bay,
[2105.08] Jack: especially for radios that support full speed inverter?
[2109.08] Lee: That's a really good question.
[2111.08] Lee: I did speak to Free Sky about,
[2114.08] Lee: can we have a radio that supports everything?
[2117.08] Lee: Going back to my point before about your competition's doing it.
[2121.08] Lee: And their answer was very much that, you know,
[2125.08] Lee: you buy the radio that supports access.
[2128.08] Lee: And then if you want some of the legacy protocols,
[2130.08] Lee: you buy that module and put that in the JR Bay.
[2133.08] Lee: So they're kind of looking at it the other way around.
[2135.08] Lee: But then that's another illustration of what we're talking about,
[2138.08] Lee: is rather than talk about let's support the existing investment you've got,
[2143.08] Lee: they're saying, no, no, no.
[2144.08] Lee: All you do is you buy a new radio that supports the new protocol.
[2147.08] Lee: And then if you need to, you can, you know,
[2149.08] Lee: you can fit something that will give you these legacy functions.
[2155.08] Lee: I would expect at some point somebody is going to either Free Sky
[2159.08] Lee: or somebody else is going to figure it out.
[2162.08] Lee: And there will be an access version.
[2164.08] Lee: And then Free Sky will have to come up with something else
[2167.08] Lee: to try and make us buy the radios.
[2169.08] Lee: But I just want Free Sky,
[2171.08] Lee: just make the radio that we all want and stop buggering about
[2177.08] Lee: and work with OpenTX to make OpenTX simpler to use
[2181.08] Lee: for pilots that don't have a programming background.
[2184.08] Lee: Because the other problem we've got with the Free Sky radios
[2187.08] Lee: and a lot of others now, if you look at things like the Tango 2 from TBS,
[2191.08] Lee: the Jumper, the Radio Master,
[2193.08] Lee: all of them are jumping on the OpenTX bandwagon,
[2196.08] Lee: which is brilliant because OpenTX is an amazing,
[2199.08] Lee: powerful, comprehensive operating system for your radio.
[2204.08] Lee: But it is incredibly difficult if you want to do anything
[2208.08] Lee: apart from really basic stuff.
[2210.08] Lee: I spent an entire hour yesterday talking to a Patreon
[2214.08] Lee: to do something very basic and set up a flying wing.
[2218.08] Lee: But his head had literally exploded.
[2221.08] Lee: His brain was dribbling out of his ears.
[2223.08] Jack: And it's simple.
[2226.08] Lee: It was Elavon mixing with a stabilizer is actually what it was.
[2231.08] Lee: But on a spectrum radio and things like that,
[2235.08] Lee: and Futaba going back to those other radios,
[2238.08] Lee: stuff like that is easier to set up.
[2240.08] Lee: I've been saying to OpenTX and the guys for a long time,
[2244.08] Lee: create, you know, you can have these Lua scripts that sit on top
[2247.08] Lee: that run as like a program and they can be set up.
[2251.08] Lee: Yeah, the wizard is a Lua script, great example.
[2254.08] Lee: Why don't you just make a really massive wizard
[2258.08] Lee: that is the interface that makes it look like a spectrum or Futaba radio
[2263.08] Lee: so that has very simple things.
[2265.08] Lee: Make the wizards half decent.
[2267.08] Lee: At the moment with the wizard, unless someone can tell me wrong
[2270.08] Lee: because I don't use the wizards, I haven't for about six months
[2273.08] Lee: because I just get annoyed,
[2275.08] Lee: is when you go set up a multi-rocer model,
[2278.08] Lee: why doesn't it set you up the multi-rocer model
[2281.08] Lee: with the four main controls plus a mode switch
[2284.08] Lee: plus an arming switch?
[2287.08] Lee: It doesn't, it just, last time I did it,
[2289.08] Lee: it gave you the four, you know, throttle, aileron,
[2291.08] Lee: elevator, rudder or whatever order you've got them in.
[2293.08] Lee: It's kind of like, hang on a minute, we've had arming switches
[2296.08] Lee: and we've had three position mode switches for about five years.
[2300.08] Lee: It seems multi-we, actually, no, multi-we were still coming.
[2303.08] Lee: But since clean flight probably, so what's that, four years ago?
[2309.08] Lee: Why can't we have an abstracted simplified interface to OpenTX?
[2315.08] Lee: Because that would really lower the entry bar
[2318.08] Lee: for a lot of pilots who buy these radios
[2320.08] Lee: because they're seeing people like us using them on YouTube.
[2323.08] Lee: And then they go to set up their first model and they're knackered.
[2328.71] Lee: They're trying to follow the video
[2330.71] Lee: that's for a slightly older version of OpenTX.
[2333.71] Lee: You know, there's four places that they can reverse the channel.
[2338.71] Lee: Right? There's at least three different ways you can do dual rates.
[2343.71] Lee: So it's kind of like, and everybody's video is slightly different, right?
[2347.71] Lee: So people will be doing dual rates and the input in the mix.
[2350.71] Lee: And it's just, how do you do it?
[2351.71] Lee: It's just like, no, no, no, just make it really easy.
[2353.71] Lee: Say, do you want set up a multi-rotor?
[2355.71] Lee: Is it going to be for beta flight?
[2357.71] Lee: Do you want an arming switch?
[2358.71] Lee: Do you want a mode switch?
[2360.71] Lee: You know, flick the one you want.
[2362.71] Lee: Right, done, go.
[2363.71] Lee: Now, I'm going to put it into bind.
[2366.71] Lee: When the radio starts beeping, press the bind button and apply power to your model.
[2370.71] Lee: Make sure your props are off.
[2371.71] Lee: Why can't it just do that and step you through?
[2373.71] Frank: The next thing would be to get, you know, bidirectional protocols
[2378.71] Frank: for the flight controller to discuss with your radio what needs to happen.
[2383.71] Frank: And it just maps everything.
[2385.71] Frank: You don't even need to tell it like channels and things.
[2388.71] Frank: And it just goes, there you go, done.
[2391.71] Lee: I love that. I love that idea.
[2393.71] Lee: Yeah, having beta flight or something pumped down via Smart Port,
[2396.71] Lee: what the settings are to auto-configure the channel order
[2400.71] Lee: and to automatically get the middle value channel bias to 1,500.
[2405.71] Lee: Oh, tell you what, people would buy it just for that.
[2409.71] Lee: Mikey Dreds just said, Mikey Dreds said,
[2411.71] Lee: painless, you'll be out of the job of having to teach everyone how to navigate OMCX.
[2415.71] Lee: Mate, if I never had to make another OMCX video,
[2418.71] Lee: I will be over the moon.
[2419.71] Lee: There's about 300 on the channel.
[2421.71] Lee: I have done it to death, and I'm now revisiting topics
[2425.71] Lee: because the way that the wonderful YouTube algorithm works is that...
[2430.71] Lee: Slave to the algorithm.
[2432.71] Lee: Oh, slave to the algorithm.
[2435.71] Lee: So the way it works is that if you go on and you search for dual rates OMCX,
[2440.71] Lee: my video that's got 70,000 views or whatever it was
[2444.71] Lee: that's about eight years old that, you know, still relevant,
[2447.71] Lee: won't get picked up. It'll be something else.
[2450.71] Lee: So I'm revisiting some of those topics because the problem is
[2453.71] Lee: is that there isn't one way to do a thing on OMCX,
[2457.71] Lee: and it is very much like when you're learning the system,
[2462.71] Lee: and this is the other problem that you have,
[2464.71] Lee: you have somebody who jumps in my OMCX mix school at like 0.27
[2469.71] Lee: where we're really in the weeds about talking about special functions
[2473.71] Lee: and loads of really technical crap in order to make the radio do something funky.
[2477.71] Lee: And at the beginning I say, okay, don't start here,
[2481.71] Lee: start at the top, right, and work your way.
[2484.71] Lee: Nobody ever does, and they watch it and go, can't make it work.
[2488.71] Lee: And you go, okay, right, where are you getting stuck?
[2490.71] Lee: Oh, I'm getting stuck in this and this bit.
[2492.71] Lee: And what it is is because, you know, they're trying to win
[2495.71] Lee: the Formula One race at, you know, where Monte Carlo,
[2501.71] Lee: and they've never driven before.
[2503.71] Lee: And it's like, well, guess what? You know, you can't do that in one video.
[2506.71] Lee: And OMCX, this kind of illustrates my point, really.
[2510.71] Lee: OMCX has too steep a learning curve for so many people.
[2515.71] Lee: It should be simpler.
[2517.71] Frank: Everyone just thinks that playing this 360 video is like plugging into the matrix.
[2521.71] Frank: And, you know, they just download and then you know what you're doing.
[2525.71] Frank: And you can fly the hatchet.
[2527.71] Jack: Move to Vimeo, make YouTube video saying, hey, this is what you want to do.
[2532.71] Jack: There's my Vimeo link.
[2533.71] Jack: You go to Vimeo, and what happens is that you make that recording
[2537.71] Jack: and then somewhere random in the middle of it,
[2539.71] Jack: you give the password to the next video.
[2544.71] Jack: So you have to watch through most of it.
[2547.71] Jack: So it's like the crystal maze, but for YouTube videos.
[2551.71] Jack: So now you've done that and you've assigned a channel order
[2554.71] Jack: and this is how you've reversed your servos.
[2556.71] Jack: And then now we're going to look at adjusting your endpoints.
[2560.71] Jack: The next video, the password is Sausage, and then carry on.
[2565.71] Frank: You can do it on YouTube.
[2566.71] Frank: You just have in like the top right hand corner,
[2569.71] Frank: you just have a little letter that just changes every few seconds.
[2573.71] Frank: And if you write them all down, that's the code for the YouTube URL for the next video.
[2579.71] Frank: And you have to watch the whole thing to be able to find the link for the next one.
[2585.71] Lee: Yeah, it definitely would.
[2587.71] Lee: There's some really good questions and comments about OpenCX templates.
[2591.71] Lee: I think that would be another good idea is to have the available to download them.
[2596.71] Lee: I've shared them in the past and you need to be careful
[2599.71] Lee: because although the basic principles are the same,
[2604.71] Lee: you cannot just take the same template from someone else's radio with the same,
[2609.71] Lee: even if they have the same model, the same motor, same servos and everything,
[2613.71] Lee: put it on another radio and expect it to work flawlessly.
[2616.71] Lee: A couple of reasons.
[2618.71] Lee: One is things like servo centering might be different on the other model.
[2621.71] Lee: So you're still going to have to trim it and set those up.
[2623.71] Lee: You're also going to have to make sure that the model is mechanically well set up,
[2627.71] Lee: servos at 90 degrees, all that jazz,
[2629.71] Lee: and things like the amount of throw on the control surfaces
[2633.71] Lee: and where the controls are actually connected up,
[2635.71] Lee: along with things like Expo are very, very specific to the pilot.
[2639.71] Lee: So even though you have those stuff, it only is going to get you 70% of the way.
[2645.71] Lee: Speaking about OpenTX, hang on.
[2647.71] Lee: Let me show you. I talked about this last week.
[2653.71] Frank: So it's not allowed near those.
[2658.71] Frank: No, no.
[2659.71] Frank: You get shouted at.
[2660.71] Lee: I'm a bit worried about it as well.
[2662.71] Lee: So for those of you that have watched my channel for a long time,
[2665.71] Lee: you'll know that I started with a little bit of fixed weight
[2668.71] Lee: and then got into helicopters, then multirotors,
[2671.71] Lee: and helicopters were one of those things that I loved,
[2673.71] Lee: but were just too tricky to fly.
[2676.71] Lee: And then this thing's come along.
[2678.71] Lee: It's an Ishin product, but these seem to be one of the things that Ishin do quite well.
[2683.71] Lee: But this has got, it's a fly barless unit, full metal head,
[2687.71] Lee: with the exception of a couple of links, comes with a radio,
[2690.71] Lee: and I'm desperate to try it out.
[2692.71] Lee: But the thing is, I want to bind it to an OpenTX radio
[2698.71] Lee: because loads of people have been onto me saying,
[2704.71] Lee: how do you set up things like this?
[2708.71] Lee: And what this is, this is a fly barless unit.
[2711.71] Lee: So this is basically a flight controller for a helicopter,
[2714.71] Lee: a very simple stabilizer.
[2716.71] Lee: And they are incredibly complicated to set this up
[2720.71] Lee: because you have to set the radio with different curves for pitch
[2723.71] Lee: and rotor head speeds, things like angle up and all that jazz.
[2729.71] Lee: And it has...
[2730.71] Lee: Charoscopic effects, that's the thing.
[2732.71] Lee: Oh, gyroscopic procession.
[2734.71] Lee: Yeah.
[2735.71] Lee: We're not getting into that.
[2736.71] Frank: You do pitch back, left to right,
[2739.71] Frank: and you do your roll front to back and stuff.
[2743.71] Lee: But in the old days, it was easy
[2745.71] Lee: because you had something called a swash mix on your radio,
[2747.71] Lee: and the radio did all the clever stuff for you
[2749.71] Lee: because what there is is there's actually three little servos
[2752.71] Lee: that move something called the swash plate,
[2754.71] Lee: which is actually underneath the rotor blades.
[2756.71] Lee: So what you do is you actually fly the swash plate,
[2760.71] Lee: and the swash plate dynamically adjusts the pitch of the rotor plate.
[2764.71] Lee: It's all really clever stuff.
[2766.71] Lee: And in the old days, you had some sort of fly bar,
[2769.71] Lee: and it was really hard work to get it all set up.
[2773.71] Lee: And this thing is really...
[2777.71] Lee: It's not like 160 quid or something with the radio.
[2780.71] Lee: I can't wait to try it.
[2782.71] Frank: There is that page in OpenTX, isn't there?
[2784.71] Frank: It's like the one that you always skip over.
[2786.71] Frank: You should do it.
[2787.71] Frank: Numskull FPV was asking how much that is that you've seen in Heli.
[2791.71] Lee: If you go and search on Banggood for E160,
[2795.71] Lee: it'll give you the current price.
[2797.71] Lee: It's not expensive.
[2801.71] Lee: The kind of technology that was in this was the stuff
[2804.71] Lee: that, as I was coming out of Heli's,
[2807.71] Lee: was things like the K...
[2810.71] Lee: Well, this is a clone version, surprise, surprise.
[2813.71] Lee: I don't think the K bar is made anymore.
[2815.71] Lee: But all the fly bar-less units for things like the Align Heli's
[2819.71] Lee: and stuff like that, it was all the new edge stuff.
[2822.71] Lee: But apparently this has a self-level and things like that.
[2827.71] Lee: So I can't wait to fly it,
[2829.71] Lee: because I want to see how easy it is now to go back
[2833.71] Lee: to being spoilt with multirotors back to a stabilized helicopter.
[2838.71] Lee: Is it going to be a helicopter that just wants to kill you,
[2841.71] Lee: like the old ones did?
[2842.71] Lee: Or is it going to be a helicopter that's got good manners
[2845.71] Lee: and can tie its own laces as at its ritalin this morning?
[2850.71] Lee: Which version am I going to get?
[2852.71] Lee: And I honestly don't know, and I can't wait to try it out.
[2855.71] Lee: So it seems to be going to be a really short video
[2857.71] Lee: where it just destroys itself.
[2859.71] Lee: Or it's going to be about three videos where I try it out
[2862.71] Lee: and then I have to figure out the channel order.
[2864.71] Lee: Because, of course, the other thing is that it comes with its own radio.
[2868.71] Lee: The radio is like those plasticky ones that I was talking about that my mate had.
[2873.71] Lee: So, of course, I'm going to want to put my own little receiver in it
[2876.71] Lee: because it's got an S-Bus port.
[2878.71] Lee: But then I was on to the E-Sheen guys and said,
[2882.71] Lee: okay, so what's my channel order?
[2884.71] Lee: And they're like, what?
[2886.71] Lee: I'm like, what's the channel order?
[2891.71] Lee: What do you mean?
[2892.71] Lee: It's in the manual.
[2893.71] Lee: No, it's not in the manual.
[2894.71] Lee: Is it a throttle, a long elevator rudder?
[2897.71] Lee: Which modes operate this?
[2900.71] Lee: Because you've got like a six-axis and three-axis.
[2905.71] Lee: I think I've got it figured out.
[2906.71] Lee: But again, that could end in disaster.
[2908.71] Lee: I'm going to have to make sure the blades are off this
[2910.71] Lee: when I try all this stuff.
[2911.71] Lee: If I get it the wrong way around,
[2913.71] Lee: it's going to take all the Artex off my ceiling before I can throttle off.
[2917.71] Lee: I'll figure out what control should be throttled.
[2919.71] Lee: Tight down.
[2920.71] Frank: Someone in the chat was saying,
[2922.71] Frank: this was Tom Stanton who's been working on this.
[2929.71] Frank: Any other questions?
[2930.71] Frank: Swash plateless heli.
[2933.71] Frank: He's been working on it for a while.
[2936.71] Frank: I don't know if you've seen the video of this.
[2939.71] Frank: So he's out of a research project that was put up on YouTube
[2945.71] Frank: a few years ago.
[2946.71] Frank: He's just made his own version.
[2948.71] Frank: Right.
[2949.71] Frank: It's kind of a bit more accessible.
[2953.71] Frank: Where they've got a magnet and a sort of magnet sensor
[2963.71] Frank: to do position sensing of the motor hub.
[2967.71] Lee: Okay, so it's kind of indexed there.
[2969.71] Lee: Yeah.
[2970.71] Frank: And then a 3D printed hub that's got two hinges in that go that.
[2975.71] Frank: So not both going in, but one's going in, one's going out.
[2980.71] Lee: Apologies for those relisting on audio.
[2982.71] Lee: Frank is doing all this with his hands.
[2984.71] Lee: It's really, really good.
[2985.71] Lee: You should have watched live.
[2986.71] Lee: Yeah.
[2987.71] Frank: And then the blades coming out from those two hinged bits.
[2992.71] Frank: Yeah.
[2993.71] Frank: And so as the motor speeds up,
[2995.71] Frank: one on one side will increase its pitch and the other one will decrease its pitch.
[3001.71] Frank: And as it slows down, they'll swap over.
[3004.71] Frank: So they'll go the other way.
[3006.71] Frank: So it will increase and decrease its speed as it's turning.
[3012.71] Frank: So that on the left hand side, it's always going to be higher pitch.
[3016.71] Frank: So then it'll tilt over to the right, for example.
[3019.71] Frank: Yeah.
[3020.71] Frank: And he's got that working and dialed out the gyroscopic recession
[3024.71] Frank: and all that kind of thing.
[3026.71] Lee: Right.
[3027.71] Lee: I'm going to have to watch that.
[3028.71] Lee: You see occasionally in the hobby, the multirotor side,
[3031.71] Lee: we get really annoyed about the fact that we've got, you know,
[3033.71] Lee: all these different ESC protocols and different sized motors and stuff.
[3037.71] Lee: But we have fixed blades.
[3039.71] Lee: We have none of this shenanigans that we need to worry about.
[3042.71] Lee: Or the fact that one blade might be half a degree out for the other blade
[3047.71] Lee: so that it actually rides higher and produces more lift.
[3051.71] Lee: The helicopter stuff is just a pain in the ass.
[3054.71] Lee: But when it works, it is quite fabulous.
[3058.71] Frank: I just love it because, you know,
[3060.71] Frank: the thing we're always so proud of with quads is like,
[3064.71] Frank: it's only got four moving parts.
[3066.71] Frank: It's only got the four stators.
[3068.71] Frank: And that's the mechanical complexity of this.
[3071.71] Frank: And then Tom Stanton has just built this helicopter
[3074.71] Frank: that has a single moving part, essentially.
[3076.71] Frank: So one rotor and that's it.
[3079.71] Frank: There's no servos, no swash plate, no fly bar.
[3083.71] Frank: None of this.
[3084.71] Frank: It's just two propellers and some very clever electronics.
[3090.71] Frank: Clever code than anything, I guess.
[3092.71] Lee: Well, Tom is a bit of a genius.
[3094.71] Jack: Who's sizey on, that bloody Tom?
[3097.71] Jack: Who's sizey on?
[3100.71] Lee: Now, what I've just noticed, we've already nearly been going for an hour.
[3104.71] Lee: None of us have got anywhere near our list.
[3107.71] Lee: But anyway, thank you.
[3108.71] Lee: Thank you. Everyone was asking the questions.
[3110.71] Lee: I have not done a single one.
[3112.71] Lee: No, you haven't done a single one.
[3113.71] Lee: You haven't got a word in eduaries tonight, mate.
[3115.71] Lee: Sorry. And there's only three of us on.
[3117.71] Lee: One of the things we were talking about before we started the stream tonight
[3121.71] Lee: and something that has been in the chat is an opportunity
[3128.71] Lee: to become part of the Let's Drone Out podcast slash Thursday Night Extravaganza.
[3137.71] Lee: Frank, do you want to talk a little bit about that?
[3139.71] Lee: Because you put it out on social media and you've had a couple of replies.
[3143.71] Lee: But I know quite a few people I've seen in the chat going through who are very eloquent chaps
[3150.71] Lee: and who actually know how to talk about the hobby in a positive way.
[3154.71] Frank: So a while ago, we had a night where we had a few people on and shared the link out
[3163.71] Frank: and got some people from the chat to come and join us
[3167.71] Frank: and gave them three strikes and then kicked them off.
[3171.71] Frank: And that was quite fun.
[3173.71] Frank: But we thought we'd kind of expand that out a little bit more.
[3178.71] Frank: And so what we're going to start off by doing is Tony is going to organize this because he offered.
[3188.71] Frank: So he's going to organize this.
[3191.71] Jack: Well, that's actually doing something, Tony.
[3195.71] Frank: So all messages to Tony.
[3199.71] Frank: So we'll work out his socials afterwards.
[3204.71] Frank: We're going to have, aim to have, I mean, timing is not a strong point,
[3211.71] Frank: but aim to have the last 10 minutes of each show have someone from the community in
[3216.71] Frank: and just kind of get them on the show and talking about what they've done
[3221.71] Frank: and just kind of have another little voice.
[3226.71] Frank: And then maybe we'll kind of go from there and see who we can kind of involve in a bit more.
[3237.71] Frank: But yeah, I think it'll be an interesting thing to kind of have a bit more.
[3241.71] Frank: You know, we've always been about the community, really.
[3245.71] Frank: So to kind of get more of your voices rather than just us giving out same complaints every week.
[3255.71] Lee: For me, I would love to have different people on the show as well, because every time I speak to
[3261.71] Lee: another pilot, I always learn something, whether it's one of their funny stories, you know,
[3265.71] Lee: what happened at the field, something they've tried.
[3269.71] Lee: You know, no one person knows everything about the hobby, and it's always good fun.
[3273.71] Lee: And a lot of us, I mean, we talked about this last time, a lot of us have been missing out on that
[3277.71] Lee: social aspect of being down the field or going out with your mates somewhere, getting the quads out
[3282.71] Lee: and just ripping around and just having a nice time and having all those funny things and stories.
[3287.71] Lee: And it would be kind of, you know, I would love to watch that as a viewer of LDO,
[3294.71] Lee: people coming on and kind of sharing that other stuff.
[3297.71] Lee: You know, for example, you know, for me, I was flying on Monday with a mate of mine.
[3301.71] Lee: He was maiming his brand new smart INAF powered thing that I built for him.
[3306.71] Lee: And we made the classic mistake.
[3309.71] Lee: We did that thing where we needed a 2200 3S pack for it.
[3314.71] Lee: He handed me one that was charged. It was puffed. It's quite badly puffed.
[3318.71] Lee: So I said to him, oh, mate, let's not use this one. Have you got a proper one?
[3321.71] Lee: This needs binning. And he was like, oh, no, we're only going to fly it for five minutes.
[3325.71] Lee: You're way ahead of me already, everybody.
[3328.71] Lee: And we ended up trogging out in the middle of a field.
[3331.71] Lee: So my trainers were full of soil.
[3334.71] Lee: But luckily it was on Monday, so everyone was dry.
[3338.71] Lee: But we used the RSSI trick on the radio, you know, because luckily the battery was still connected.
[3342.71] Lee: We eventually found it.
[3343.71] Lee: But it was just one of those, you know, occasionally you do something and something goes wrong
[3348.71] Lee: and you kind of go, oh, my God, I knew that was going to happen.
[3352.71] Lee: Why didn't I, you know, kind of go, you know what, mate?
[3356.71] Lee: No, I'm not going to use that. Or you know what, mate?
[3358.71] Lee: We are going to take the prop off before I power it off.
[3362.71] Lee: You know, all those daft things, because every time I hear one of those,
[3365.71] Lee: it just reinforces that kind of don't be a dumbass.
[3368.71] Lee: And if I'm at the field, there's a chance I might not make that same mistake next time.
[3372.71] Lee: Because I tell you what, if my mate hands me a puffed lipo to just do a quick flight,
[3378.71] Lee: I'm just going to hand it to him straight back and just go, no, mate,
[3381.71] Lee: I'm not risking your model for the sake of 10 minutes to charge another pack.
[3386.71] Jack: You should bring yourself some side cutters and just cut one of the cables off it.
[3391.71] Lee: You know, I actually went, joking aside, I actually then went through every single one of his batteries
[3396.71] Lee: and found six of the 2200s were badly puffed.
[3399.71] Lee: And so I was talking to him and I said, this doesn't make sense why they're all puffed.
[3405.71] Lee: And I was saying, so what do you do with the batteries when you finish flying?
[3408.71] Lee: And he said, oh, well, you know what, I fully charged them and then I put them on the shelf
[3413.71] Lee: ready for when I want to fly in there.
[3415.71] Lee: And I went, right, okay, I found the problem.
[3418.71] Lee: And he went, why?
[3419.71] Lee: I said, you put the weight storage charge.
[3421.71] Lee: He's like, well, what if I want to, if I get like 15 minutes, I want to come down here and, you know,
[3425.71] Lee: slap a battery in.
[3426.71] Lee: I was like, yeah, but these batteries are all junk now because you put them on the shelf
[3432.71] Lee: and maybe not use them for eight months fully charged and it just completely knackers them.
[3436.71] Lee: But even things like that, you know, some pilots, I'm sure who've never been told that, you know,
[3442.71] Lee: that when you put a battery away, you're not going to be flying it, you put it storage charge.
[3447.71] Lee: Lots of people might not even know stuff like that.
[3449.71] Lee: It's cool stuff like that.
[3450.71] Lee: I'd love to see more people, different people on here.
[3453.71] Lee: So if you so what you're going to do, post the link for Tony in the show notes, I think.
[3459.71] Jack: Give out his phone number.
[3462.71] Jack: Do you remember that old fable of, you know, when you're not using your batteries over the winter,
[3467.71] Jack: put them in the freezer?
[3470.71] Lee: I remember reading that.
[3471.71] Jack: Yeah.
[3472.71] Jack: Oh, my God.
[3473.71] Frank: Surely that.
[3475.71] Frank: Quick, quick update on the regulations.
[3479.71] Frank: There's been a new exemption put out.
[3485.71] Frank: So that the members of associations who have done the online test or had the A sets of B sets from FPV, UK
[3495.71] Frank: or BMFA or LMA or any others, those are valid through at least till the end of this year.
[3503.71] Frank: So you don't need to worry about doing the tests on the CIA ones if you've got one of those achievement scheme
[3509.71] Frank: or competency certificates from one of the associations.
[3513.71] Frank: But so far, there has not been an exemption from the end of this month to the end of this year
[3523.71] Frank: for putting your operator ID on your models before you fly them.
[3529.71] Frank: So at the moment, come July, you would have to put your operator ID on your model,
[3538.71] Frank: even though you don't need to set a CAA test.
[3541.71] Frank: You can just use your A set or your B set or your RCC or your FPV, UK A set or any of the others.
[3550.71] Frank: And you've got your numbers through them.
[3552.71] Frank: You can put those numbers on.
[3555.71] Frank: But we'll see what happens next week because there's some meetings happening.
[3563.71] Lee: Right.
[3564.71] Lee: So the bottom line is, if you haven't already gone through the process and paid you nine pounds
[3570.71] Lee: and done all that crap to register and then got your operator ID,
[3575.71] Lee: as it stands right now, you cannot fly because you need your operator ID on your model
[3584.71] Lee: in order to comply with the regs, but that might change next week.
[3587.71] Frank: Yes.
[3588.71] Frank: At the moment, gosh, this is July would mean you'd need your operator ID on your models.
[3594.71] Frank: But there's some meetings happening over the next few days, including the weekend,
[3602.71] Frank: because of reasons that mean that maybe there will be an announcement next Monday, maybe.
[3610.71] Frank: And maybe there'll be another exemption because more paperwork is better.
[3617.71] Frank: But we'll see.
[3618.71] Frank: Maybe there won't be.
[3619.71] Frank: Maybe they'll say, actually, no, you need to get on board and start using your IDs.
[3623.71] Frank: But who knows?
[3625.71] Lee: Right.
[3626.71] Lee: OK, so tune in next week where we'll find out whether or not they're going to continue
[3631.71] Lee: to waste taxpayers money and everybody's time.
[3634.71] Lee: Exactly.
[3635.71] Jack: Yeah.
[3636.71] Jack: So don't don't pay them nine pounds yet.
[3640.71] Jack: And don't forget, you only need to register before you fly.
[3644.71] Jack: I have got a laser engraver offering a dyslexic server service.
[3655.71] Jack: I will I will to the one millimeter spec or whatever it is minimum engrave your operator
[3663.71] Jack: ID and it may not be in the right order.
[3669.71] Jack: But I am not responsible for that.
[3674.71] Jack: Just so you know, there is a service available.
[3680.71] Lee: Yeah, I think I'm just going to wait and see what Uncle Frank says next week.
[3684.71] Lee: I'll be tuning in for the update.
[3686.71] Lee: So thanks for keeping us up to date with all that, Frank.
[3688.71] Lee: I know it's it's not something I really want to know about.
[3691.71] Lee: But at least if I'm in possession of the facts, I can make an informed choice.
[3695.71] Frank: In all honesty, I wouldn't have read this one out, apart from the fact that it's been
[3701.71] Frank: posted by BMFA and it's it looked on my first impulse.
[3708.71] Frank: I was like, oh, this is just extending the exemption that we've already had to basically
[3713.71] Frank: ignore all the regulations.
[3714.71] Frank: And I was like, well, yes, finally, they've extended that to the end of the year.
[3718.71] Frank: But it's not yet.
[3719.71] Frank: It's only part of the regulations.
[3722.71] Frank: So looking back at my notes, because I can't remember exactly which ones which.
[3729.71] Frank: So this one covers Article 94 F, but doesn't cover Article 94 D.
[3734.71] Frank: There we go.
[3736.71] Lee: I was going to say, I'm depressed now.
[3745.71] Lee: I hate to finish it here, but I've just noticed we have been we've been going for the over
[3749.71] Lee: the hour.
[3752.71] Jack: Yeah.
[3753.71] Jack: Yeah.
[3754.71] Jack: OK.
[3755.71] Jack: No worries.
[3756.71] Jack: So get in touch with Tony.
[3758.71] Jack: Tony putting away to get in touch with you.
[3762.71] Jack: Oh, he's going to see your ID.
[3765.71] Jack: I doubt it.
[3766.71] Jack: Whatever.
[3767.71] Jack: Thank you.
[3768.71] Jack: You've been listening to Let's Drone out.
[3769.71] Jack: Thanks to everyone who's chatted in the chat and left messages and everyone who's donated.
[3775.71] Jack: Big shout out to our patrons.
[3777.71] Jack: We love you all.
[3779.71] Jack: We've been joined by Andrew slash Frank.
[3781.71] Jack: Bye.
[3782.71] Jack: Hey, the 360.
[3783.71] Jack: G'day.
[3784.71] Jack: I'll be right until I fly.
[3787.71] Jack: And thank you.
[3788.71] Jack: And good night.
[3789.71] Frank: There should be a link in the description for the Discord.
[3792.71] Frank: You can contact Tony there.
[3794.71] Jack: Tony doesn't know how to use Discord.
[3796.71] Jack: Shh.
[3797.71] Frank: We'll convince him yet.
[3798.71] UNKNOWN: Telemetry lost.