=== Let's Drone Out — Episode 298 ===
Title: LDO 298 - What The Heck? RTR
Recorded: 2021-05-13
Hosts: Jack "Brightontillifly" Nash, Andrew "Frank" Hyams, Wayne "CurryKitten" Andrews, Klaudyna "Kaja" "BlueOwl" Wrochna
Guest(s): Ben Heck
Total audience: 1,937
Platforms: YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lm9stXjqiZM); SoundCloud (http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/feeds.soundcloud.com/stream/1048915867-letsdroneout-ldo-298-what-the-heck-rtr.mp3)
=====================================

Ben is at https://www.benheck.com/

and the gofundme is https://uk.gofundme.com/f/lets-get-right-to-repair-passed

[0.0] Curry: Welcome to Let's Drone Out, the original and best drone themed podcast.
[5.0] Curry: We record the show live on the Thursday night on youtube.com forward slash Let's Drone Out
[10.0] Curry: and our lovely patrons help with the editing costs.
[12.0] (Patrons): These are...
[13.0] Curry: Wacky Wes
[14.0] (Patrons): Mikey Dread
[15.0] (Patrons): Art Faulkner
[17.0] (Patrons): Carlos Campos
[19.0] (Patrons): Thank you
[20.0] Tony: Hello and welcome back to another episode of Let's Drone Out.
[56.7] Tony: Tonight we are joined by our Lord of Master, Andrew slash Frank.
[60.7] Tony: Good evening.
[61.7] Tony: My darling wife.
[63.7] Tony: Sure.
[65.7] Tony: The lovely, beautiful, talented blue owl.
[68.7] BlueOwl: Oh, thank you. Hello, hi everyone.
[71.7] Tony: Everyone's favorite curry kitten.
[73.7] Tony: Hello.
[74.7] Tony: And the amazing Ben Haack.
[78.7] Tony: Hello.
[79.7] Tony: And to not... I'm bright until I fly.
[84.7] Tony: Tonight we are talking about Right to Repair.
[90.7] Tony: So Ben's covered a podcast just recently with Lewis Rustman who if you don't know,
[98.7] Tony: he's on YouTube and he runs a Mac repair in New York, like little, you know, like MacBook repair.
[108.7] Tony: And he's like campaigning to go against Right to Repair.
[113.7] Tony: This summer we've had...
[114.7] Tony: To be for Right to Repair.
[116.7] Ben Heck: Yeah.
[117.7] Tony: And this summer over here, we've had new legislation for Right to Repair rules put in place,
[127.7] Tony: which kind of help things.
[129.7] Tony: But I mainly wanted to cover this episode as an excuse to talk to Ben and see whether we can convince him
[140.7] Tony: that FPV drone racing is something he might want to have a go at.
[144.7] Tony: If he gets too bored, he can talk about Linux commands with curry kitten
[149.7] Tony: and try and teach us stuff about electronics.
[155.7] Tony: So you used to run the Ben Haack show on Element 14 and...
[162.7] Ben Heck: Well, I didn't run it.
[164.7] Ben Heck: I was just like...
[165.7] Ben Heck: A star.
[166.7] Ben Heck: The talent or whatever you call it.
[168.7] Ben Heck: But yeah, I did that for eight years on YouTube.
[173.7] Tony: Yeah, that is some service.
[176.7] Tony: Our show is five years now and slowly going down in popularity, I'm sure.
[184.7] Ben Heck: Well, there's always like, you know, the peaks and valleys.
[188.7] Tony: But it's just a pure trough here.
[192.7] Tony: That Tony eats out of.
[195.7] Tony: But yeah, we've all kind of got into electronics because we fly these racing drones.
[202.7] Tony: You might have seen them.
[203.7] Tony: They're like made out of carbon fiber and...
[206.7] Tony: Oh, yeah.
[207.7] Tony: They're super fast and deadly and now follow your home and spy on your wife.
[214.7] Ben Heck: It has a fixed camera on it.
[216.7] Ben Heck: There's some gimbal stabilization, I assume, right?
[219.7] Tony: No, fixed camera.
[221.7] Tony: And we have a GoPro on top.
[224.7] Tony: And that's how we roll.
[228.7] Ben Heck: Where do you race them?
[230.7] Ben Heck: Like through obstacle courses or houses or electric wires?
[235.7] Tony: Yeah.
[236.7] Tony: Yeah, we can set up courses and we sometimes have Andos.
[242.7] Tony: A lot of us mainly fly freestyle or just for fun.
[246.7] Tony: And yeah, you can have race gates with...
[249.7] Tony: It's got an analog VTX transmitter, video transmitter on them.
[255.7] Tony: And we can use that for the spike in signal strength.
[260.7] Tony: It gives us our lap times and stuff like that.
[263.7] Tony: Or we can just fly and dive big buildings or have good fun and all like that.
[269.7] Ben Heck: Oh, that's why you run a GoPro so you have a high resolution image on it
[273.7] Ben Heck: because what's transmitted is probably a low bandwidth.
[277.7] Tony: Yeah, we keep it nice and low for latency.
[280.7] Tony: That makes sense.
[281.7] Ben Heck: Especially if you're racing.
[283.7] Tony: Yeah, sorry.
[285.7] Tony: But we still crash and stuff.
[288.7] Tony: But slowly there's been new technology and stuff.
[291.7] Tony: I mean, I'm sure you've seen something on GitHub.
[294.7] Tony: GitHub?
[295.7] UNKNOWN: Yep.
[296.7] Curry: Not as only our camera angle fixed,
[299.7] Curry: but there's a whole subgenre in flying.
[302.7] Curry: So it's like as a beginner, you'll be flying it quite flat.
[305.7] Curry: As you speed up, you're leaning the quad further forwards
[308.7] Curry: and that's your camera angles going up.
[310.7] Curry: Blue hour's the psychopath.
[311.7] Curry: She flies at 65 degrees.
[313.7] Curry: So she's landing.
[314.7] Curry: She's just looking up at the sky all the time.
[316.7] Ben Heck: Well, that's how helicopters work, right?
[318.7] Ben Heck: They're usually slightly forward or angle.
[321.7] Ben Heck: Is that wrong?
[322.7] BlueOwl: Yeah, yeah, that's right.
[326.7] Frank: But generally not 65 degrees.
[330.7] BlueOwl: I would just kill you.
[333.7] Ben Heck: 65 degrees would almost be like a flying pancake, right?
[336.7] Ben Heck: Well, you're all like that, right?
[338.7] BlueOwl: Yeah.
[339.7] BlueOwl: You either look at the sky or if you're lucky,
[342.7] BlueOwl: you can look backwards.
[347.7] Ben Heck: I suppose if you flew at that angle,
[349.7] Ben Heck: you're basically pulling yourself through the air volume sideways,
[352.7] Ben Heck: right, for speed?
[355.7] BlueOwl: Yeah, I mean, you can go any direction, really.
[360.7] BlueOwl: It's kind of hard to tell when you have such a different angle
[363.7] BlueOwl: because the thing is your direction of flight
[365.7] BlueOwl: will be totally different if your camera is tilted.
[368.7] BlueOwl: So you can't really tell whether you're going upside down
[371.7] BlueOwl: or forward.
[373.7] BlueOwl: You can't really tell it's such a high period.
[375.7] Tony: Yeah, and also when you fly like that,
[378.7] Tony: your becomes roll and roll becomes your.
[382.7] Tony: And the only benefit we can see is if she accidentally
[385.7] Tony: crashes into a wall, she just sticks herself to the wall.
[389.7] Tony: We've done extensive testing.
[394.7] Tony: Best way to crash.
[396.7] BlueOwl: Yeah, that's actually true, yes.
[399.7] BlueOwl: That's one of the things you can say for sure.
[402.7] Curry: Let me ask both yourself, Jack and Ben,
[405.7] Curry: what is the current situation with the right to repair
[408.7] Curry: both in the UK and the US?
[410.7] Curry: Oh, here we go.
[411.7] Curry: We've got a little thing, which is clearing up our guest space.
[417.7] Ben Heck: Well, no, I like that.
[419.7] Ben Heck: I like the stick figure.
[420.7] Ben Heck: That implies I've lost weight.
[422.7] Ben Heck: So that's all my name and see.
[424.7] Tony: No, that one was Tony.
[426.7] Tony: Yeah.
[427.7] Tony: Do you want me to do you want me to go through it quickly?
[430.7] Ben Heck: Oh, I think you should.
[431.7] Ben Heck: I mean, that was a great diagram.
[432.7] Ben Heck: Yeah.
[433.7] Curry: Yeah.
[434.7] Curry: Plus we're an audio podcast as well.
[436.7] Ben Heck: And I'll read out fair enough.
[441.7] Tony: Describe it in excruciating detail.
[443.7] Tony: I was a bit scared of it.
[445.7] Tony: Like in case we were to get sued.
[448.7] Tony: But initially it's a picture of a stick figure.
[452.7] Tony: And it goes, this is Tony.
[453.7] Tony: He's hypothetically bought a new pair of BJY goggles,
[459.7] Tony: but he's having a few problems.
[462.7] Tony: Silly Tony has accidentally, in the next box below,
[466.7] Tony: has accidentally and hypothetically plugged 6S
[469.7] Tony: into his goggles.
[471.7] Tony: Tone, I don't know.
[472.7] Tony: I don't own any DJI goggles.
[474.7] Tony: This is a digital video system, by the way.
[477.7] Tony: But if you plug 6S into them, do they blow up?
[480.7] Frank: Apparently, they can take 6S.
[482.7] Curry: The V2s will take 6S.
[484.7] Curry: But let's suggest for the benefit of the diagram,
[487.7] Curry: it can't and it would explode.
[488.7] Tony: Well, no.
[489.7] Tony: BJY ones can't.
[492.7] Tony: Okay.
[493.7] Tony: The question, what's 6S?
[495.7] Ben Heck: Oh.
[496.7] Ben Heck: 6-cell battery.
[497.7] Curry: It's a 6-cell lipo battery.
[499.7] Ben Heck: Oh, so you'd be looking at, what, about 23 volts?
[504.7] Curry: Yes.
[505.7] Curry: Probably a little more than that.
[506.7] Curry: 24, 25, a fully chance.
[509.7] Tony: It then flows into, can I get parts to fix it myself?
[513.7] Tony: And then it says, no, at BJY,
[517.7] Tony: we don't sell parts directly to the customer hypothetically.
[521.7] Tony: And then the next flow diagram is, well, you can go two ways.
[526.7] Tony: If you go the other way and you go, if you do buy third party,
[531.7] Tony: it goes to the box at the end that says, you avoided your warranty hypothetically.
[536.7] Tony: This is your fault.
[537.7] Tony: Go away.
[539.7] Tony: This is your problem.
[541.7] Tony: And in the center is, can I send them to a local repair center?
[546.7] Tony: No.
[547.7] Tony: At BJY, we don't supply those parts to local suppliers.
[553.7] Tony: You have to send them directly to us.
[554.7] Tony: So the combined cost of shipping parts and labor
[557.7] Tony: can work out more expensive than buying the new model hypothetically.
[562.7] Tony: And then you can flow into the other ones of you avoided your warranty.
[565.7] Tony: If you're open to have a look at them,
[568.7] Tony: we've decided not to make that anymore.
[571.7] Tony: Go away.
[572.7] Tony: This is your problem.
[575.7] Tony: Yeah.
[576.7] Tony: So that was my way of making this slightly more relatable to FPV.
[584.7] Tony: And that slowly, although we've got the open source root that most of us fly on,
[593.7] Tony: there's a lot of close source hardware and software that we don't have access to.
[601.7] Tony: And the further we go on, if there's no longer a competitor for digital FPV,
[612.7] Tony: then we will be forced into these sort of situations.
[616.7] Tony: And to go back to your question, Ben, does the UK have right to repair?
[621.7] Tony: Ministers have confirmed that from this summer,
[624.7] Tony: consumers will have a right to repair on goods that they buy.
[627.7] Tony: Manufacturers will be legally obliged to make their products available to customers
[632.7] Tony: for the first time.
[633.7] Tony: There's now a new legal right to repair.
[637.7] Tony: This was published on the 10th of March.
[641.7] Tony: Oh, that's good.
[643.7] Tony: So this summer in the UK, manufacturers will be legally obliged to make spare parts
[650.7] Tony: in the hope to cut CO2 emissions from making new goods.
[657.7] Tony: And this comes from the UK.
[659.7] Tony: EECO design and energy laboring regulations 2021 requiring levels of repairability.
[667.7] Tony: When you buy a new white goods, you've got the energy efficiency label,
[675.7] Tony: and it's like all the way to, is it F or something?
[678.7] Tony: I can't remember.
[679.7] Tony: But there'll be a repairability scale and a CO2 emission label, I think.
[688.7] Ben Heck: Oh, a white good?
[690.7] Tony: What is that?
[691.7] Tony: A fridge, large boring goods that we have in our kitchens.
[696.7] Tony: All right.
[697.7] Ben Heck: Kind of like how they have like the energy star rating stickers,
[700.7] Ben Heck: at least they do here.
[701.7] Ben Heck: It's like, this is how much energy it'll consume over a year.
[704.7] Ben Heck: That kind of stuff?
[705.7] Ben Heck: Yes.
[706.7] Ben Heck: Oh, so it'll be on that.
[707.7] Ben Heck: Actually, I had to fix my refrigerator, I think it was last year.
[711.7] Ben Heck: So, yeah.
[713.7] Ben Heck: But my fridge, well, it's like seven years old,
[716.7] Ben Heck: which means it's, you know, it doesn't have,
[718.7] Ben Heck: I don't even think it has any microchips in it.
[720.7] Ben Heck: Well, I mean, now they have fridges with like the hookup to your cell phone
[723.7] Ben Heck: so you can be at the grocery store and look inside your fridge
[725.7] Ben Heck: and see what you're out of.
[727.7] Tony: That exists now.
[729.7] Tony: It took me like, it took me ages to find my washing machine.
[735.7] Tony: I wanted a really up-to-date smart washing machine
[737.7] Tony: without it connecting to my phone.
[741.7] Tony: So it was like trying to get the maximum amount of like, you know,
[745.7] Tony: usability, like hygiene, steam, I don't know, drum clean and all that stuff.
[752.7] Tony: We're not talking about drones today.
[754.7] Tony: Right.
[755.7] Ben Heck: But if you get a fridge like that,
[757.7] Ben Heck: it ends up having all this connectivity that you didn't want.
[761.7] Ben Heck: Yeah.
[762.7] Ben Heck: It would be kind of like trying to find a dumb car nowadays.
[764.7] Ben Heck: It'd be pretty much impossible.
[767.7] Ben Heck: I mean, that's going to be a huge, I mean, now you're talking about drones,
[770.7] Ben Heck: but I think in the future, like right to repair as far as vehicles,
[773.7] Ben Heck: that's going to be a big issue because, you know,
[775.7] Ben Heck: they cram so many microcontrollers into a car these days,
[778.7] Ben Heck: and all of the code on those microcontrollers is proprietary software
[781.7] Ben Heck: owned by the companies.
[783.7] Curry: Yeah.
[784.7] Curry: I was shocked as well to hear every time they talk about bringing out car
[788.7] Curry: software, they seem to write it from scratch, which is like madness
[792.7] Curry: because it seems to be like, well, and I got sort of figures of 150,000 lines
[797.7] Curry: to sort of half a million lines of code for the average car,
[801.7] Curry: which is like, that's crazy.
[802.7] Curry: How many blocks can be in there?
[804.7] Ben Heck: They write it from scratch for each model or each model year.
[808.7] Curry: What?
[809.7] Curry: Some people seem to put it out like it's some sort of big thing.
[813.7] Curry: It's like we've thrown away the old stuff and we're writing it.
[815.7] Curry: It's all new stuff.
[816.7] Curry: And it's like, well, that's madness.
[817.7] Curry: But when you've got something that's existing,
[820.7] Curry: surely you want to build on top of that and take the existing stuff
[823.7] Curry: that's working well.
[824.7] Ben Heck: I've never heard of that before.
[825.7] Ben Heck: I mean, if that's what they do, that is madness.
[828.7] Ben Heck: Unless they like employing tons of programmers for some reason,
[832.7] Ben Heck: let's give them lots of work to do.
[834.7] Ben Heck: Because I mean, look at something like a Toyota.
[837.7] Ben Heck: I mean, the frames on those stay the same for a decade.
[840.7] Ben Heck: So engineering is about using as much as you can from the past
[845.7] Ben Heck: because then you don't have to redo it because you know it works.
[848.7] Tony: Standing on the shoulders of joints.
[851.7] Ben Heck: Yeah.
[852.7] Ben Heck: Well, no, but it's not necessarily that.
[854.7] Ben Heck: It's just that if you have, I don't know,
[856.7] Ben Heck: let's say you have your CAN bus system that, oh,
[858.7] Ben Heck: it's doing a really good job of talking to the airbags.
[860.7] Ben Heck: Like, why would you rewrite that?
[861.7] Ben Heck: That seems strange.
[863.7] Curry: I don't know.
[864.7] Tony: That's everything.
[866.7] Curry: Not everything.
[867.7] Curry: It's like whenever there's like a new model,
[869.7] Curry: it's like we've redone this thing and we're doing something else with it.
[873.7] Curry: That's what I saw with some stats somewhere.
[876.7] Curry: I can't back that up with actual figures.
[878.7] Curry: I might be wrong, but I thought that's what I saw.
[881.7] Curry: But yeah, I've had to...
[882.7] Curry: That seems strange.
[883.7] Curry: I usually reboot my car sometimes because it's like the phone
[887.7] Curry: system is just going to cuck at me instead of someone's voice.
[891.7] Ben Heck: Reboot your car?
[892.7] Ben Heck: You mean restart it?
[893.7] Curry: Yeah, essentially.
[894.7] Curry: Well, it's the same difference, isn't it?
[895.7] Curry: I'm turning off and on again and suddenly it works.
[898.7] Ben Heck: Correct, because it's basically reinitializing everything.
[901.7] Ben Heck: How is it?
[902.7] Ben Heck: It must be a fairly new car?
[905.7] Curry: It's about four years old, but you know,
[907.7] Curry: it's still got like everything's linked to the main computer
[911.7] Curry: and thus if something's going wrong or some sense is going wrong
[916.7] Curry: or something like that, it's often the case of like if we turn it off
[919.7] Curry: and we turn it back on and then suddenly it works.
[922.7] Curry: And then you'll find out when you get it serviced,
[924.7] Curry: it'll get updated and I'll put some new firmware on.
[927.7] Ben Heck: Oh, lovely.
[929.7] Ben Heck: Well, we live in an age now where we need firmware for our light bulbs,
[933.7] Ben Heck: so there's no limit to things we can put firmware on.
[938.7] Ben Heck: But firmware for our socks soon.
[941.7] Ben Heck: Yeah, well, I don't know.
[944.7] Ben Heck: There's a YouTube channel, Rich Rebuilds.
[946.7] Ben Heck: He buys scrap or wrecked Teslas and he tries to put them together
[951.7] Ben Heck: to create working Teslas and even that, it's quite complicated
[955.7] Ben Heck: and Tesla parts are really expensive.
[957.7] Ben Heck: And again, there's microcontrollers everywhere.
[961.7] Ben Heck: And I think that's the problem.
[962.7] Ben Heck: Like if it's going to cost you $1,000 to fix your windshield wipers,
[966.7] Ben Heck: oh, we got to have a special microcontroller with digital signal processing.
[969.7] Ben Heck: So we have a beautiful windshield wipe.
[973.7] Ben Heck: We were pretty much already there.
[975.7] Ben Heck: I mean, it's kind of ridiculous.
[977.7] Tony: It gets worse with that.
[978.7] Tony: You know, you're saying about the...
[979.7] Tony: I'm a big fan of Rich Rebuilds as well with the Tesla.
[984.7] Tony: You know, they glue the cars together with the spot rivets
[990.7] Tony: and do you know how they're assembled?
[991.7] Tony: Everything goes through the windscreen, not through the doors.
[995.7] Tony: So there's certain things, like the back seat,
[999.7] Tony: you can't remove via the doors.
[1002.7] Tony: You have to take the windshield out.
[1005.7] Ben Heck: Yeah, they only weld them just enough to hold the pieces in place
[1008.7] Ben Heck: as the glue cures.
[1009.7] Ben Heck: Yeah.
[1010.7] Ben Heck: Actually, I believe that's most manufacturers now, not just Tesla.
[1014.7] Ben Heck: Actually, visited the Tesla plant in Silicon Valley a while back.
[1018.7] Ben Heck: It's pretty cool.
[1019.7] Ben Heck: It used to be where they made Toyota Matrixes in America,
[1022.7] Ben Heck: but then Elon bought it.
[1024.7] Ben Heck: Yeah.
[1025.7] Ben Heck: That was back when they were still using the 18650s.
[1029.7] Ben Heck: But now, of course, you know, Nikola Tesla has reinvented the battery
[1032.7] Ben Heck: by making a different shape lipo battery.
[1034.7] Ben Heck: So he's super genius, obviously.
[1037.7] Tony: I was going to talk about planned obsolescence.
[1040.7] Tony: Oh, yeah.
[1042.7] Tony: So that is another factor of right to repair.
[1046.7] Ben Heck: Yeah, that came up during my talk with Lewis.
[1049.7] Tony: Yeah.
[1050.7] Tony: So things that we kind of have or use will sort of fall into this.
[1059.7] Tony: So DGI don't continue to supply parts for older copters.
[1066.7] Tony: So if you own anything like a Phantom 3 or Phantom 4,
[1072.7] Tony: gimbal parts are becoming increasingly rare.
[1077.7] Tony: And you will sort of force down that third-party route.
[1083.7] Tony: One of the things that we can all relate to is the GoPros,
[1086.7] Tony: the high-definition cameras that we use.
[1090.7] Tony: Their repair scheme does not offer repair to GoPros
[1094.7] Tony: involved with damage by any UAVs or drones.
[1098.7] Tony: So you can buy the repair cover cost scheme with them.
[1108.05] Tony: But if you mention to them, I think Curry's got a story.
[1111.05] Tony: If you mention to them, like, they were like,
[1113.05] Tony: how was this damaged?
[1114.05] Tony: If you say drone any part of this, they refuse to repair it.
[1120.05] Tony: So it's fine if you accidentally dropped it down the stairs.
[1123.05] Tony: Yeah, it's kind of weird.
[1124.05] Ben Heck: Because like you think if you had like someone skiing
[1126.05] Ben Heck: and they had it on their head and they crashed into a rock,
[1129.05] Ben Heck: you know, 180-pound skier going down a mountain
[1132.05] Ben Heck: is actually going to create a lot more force
[1134.05] Ben Heck: than the impact of a small drone hitting something.
[1136.05] Ben Heck: And that's okay, apparently.
[1139.05] Curry: I'll say what happened to me is I had a little GoPro session,
[1142.05] Curry: a little square one.
[1143.05] Curry: And I had a weird little accident.
[1145.05] Curry: I only put the quad into the floor.
[1147.05] Curry: It's not a great deal of thing.
[1149.05] Curry: But what happened is there's this little aluminium
[1153.05] Curry: or something thing on the back that just peeled off.
[1155.05] Curry: And it's just like a little tiny piece.
[1158.05] Curry: I thought this is going to be like $5.
[1160.05] Curry: And it sort of brings on a lot of points.
[1162.05] Curry: Because if you found out GoPro and say,
[1164.05] Curry: oh, I just need this replacement part.
[1166.05] Curry: This has just peeled off.
[1167.05] Curry: I just need a new one.
[1168.05] Curry: Slap it back on there.
[1169.05] Curry: Be good as new.
[1170.05] Curry: And then I'm sorry, we don't do spare parts,
[1173.05] Curry: which comes to the, why not?
[1176.05] Curry: I don't want to throw it away.
[1177.05] Curry: This is a good camera.
[1179.05] Curry: And I had a very weird conversation with them
[1181.05] Curry: where they say we don't do repairs.
[1184.05] Curry: We don't fix things.
[1187.05] Curry: We replaced them.
[1189.05] Curry: And I did mention, they said, what happened to it?
[1191.05] Curry: I said, oh, it was flying on my drone.
[1193.05] Curry: And it peeled off.
[1195.05] Curry: And it crashed.
[1196.05] Curry: They said, well, we can't help you.
[1198.05] Curry: So the next time I call back, it's
[1201.05] Curry: a bit like being in a prison riot
[1203.05] Curry: and someone's interviewing you and say, what happened?
[1205.05] Curry: And he said, I don't know.
[1206.05] Curry: I didn't see it.
[1207.05] Curry: Perhaps it just fell or something.
[1209.05] Curry: Saying that means like, oh, yeah, send it in,
[1213.05] Curry: which is bizarre.
[1214.05] Curry: Because we're in the UK.
[1215.05] Curry: You send it to Holland or something.
[1217.05] Curry: And they send you back a refurbished one.
[1219.05] Curry: Because I was like, well, what do you do with the old one?
[1221.05] Curry: And they say, we use it as spares for repair.
[1223.05] Curry: And then I'm like, well, I thought you didn't have a repair.
[1225.05] Curry: So what's going on with it?
[1227.05] Curry: It was a very weird situation.
[1229.05] Curry: But all they need to do is sell like a tiny piece of aluminium
[1232.05] Curry: for like a couple of dollars or something.
[1235.05] Ben Heck: Well, that's one thing that failed.
[1237.05] Ben Heck: Obviously, there's a lot more that could fail on one of those.
[1240.05] Ben Heck: If I had to guess, probably the reason for doing that
[1242.05] Ben Heck: is GoPro is a pretty compact device.
[1245.05] Ben Heck: And it's kind of all sandwiched together.
[1247.05] Ben Heck: A lot of it's glued together.
[1249.05] Ben Heck: It's probably one of those things where
[1251.05] Ben Heck: the labor it would take to refurbish it
[1253.05] Ben Heck: is probably not worth what the camera costs.
[1256.05] Ben Heck: That's kind of a big problem.
[1258.05] Ben Heck: And maybe, who knows, their refurbishment center
[1261.05] Ben Heck: might be in China, not Holland,
[1263.05] Ben Heck: where they can basically get the cost of the labor so low
[1266.05] Ben Heck: that it actually becomes worth it to fix it.
[1268.05] Ben Heck: But I mean, if you've ever taken one of those apart,
[1270.05] Ben Heck: it's very compact.
[1271.05] Ben Heck: There's lots of thin ribbon cables.
[1273.05] Ben Heck: It's almost like an electronic sandwich,
[1275.05] Ben Heck: because it is so compact.
[1278.05] Ben Heck: Well, yeah.
[1279.05] Ben Heck: In that case, it's faster to send you a refurbished one
[1281.05] Ben Heck: than to sit there and fix that one.
[1283.05] Ben Heck: So they probably have a huge queue of the broken ones
[1286.05] Ben Heck: or the spares.
[1287.05] Ben Heck: And then that's what something Lewis Rossman talked about.
[1289.05] Ben Heck: I was like, where do you get your spare parts?
[1291.05] Ben Heck: He's like, I get them from dead machines,
[1294.05] Ben Heck: because, yeah, you cannot buy the new parts.
[1297.05] Ben Heck: But then, so yeah, you end up being like a, well, I guess,
[1300.05] Ben Heck: you guys are all UK?
[1303.05] Tony: Yes, they are.
[1304.05] Ben Heck: Oh, OK.
[1305.05] Ben Heck: Well, I was going to say, you end up being like a farmer
[1307.05] Ben Heck: where you have all these junky tractors in your field
[1310.05] Ben Heck: so you can pull parts off of them.
[1312.05] Ben Heck: And that's kind of how these repair people have to be.
[1314.05] Ben Heck: They have to basically scrounge for parts.
[1316.05] Ben Heck: Now, a lot of people are scrounging for parts these days
[1318.05] Ben Heck: with all of the chip shortages.
[1320.05] Ben Heck: But I'm just saying this has been going on for a long time.
[1323.05] Ben Heck: Yeah, so it's unfortunate.
[1326.05] Ben Heck: I think there is, well, obviously,
[1328.05] Ben Heck: there's always a capitalistic part of it, too,
[1331.05] Ben Heck: where it's like, oh, it's not worth it to fix this.
[1333.05] Ben Heck: And that's happened with electronics in general.
[1336.05] Ben Heck: They make things so cheap that it's not necessarily because they
[1340.05] Ben Heck: don't want you to repair it.
[1341.05] Ben Heck: It's because they want to make it as cheap as possible.
[1343.05] Ben Heck: You know, like, just like a Tesla,
[1345.05] Ben Heck: your phone is glued together because it takes like a tenth
[1348.05] Ben Heck: of a second for a machine to drive a screw.
[1350.05] Ben Heck: I mean, there's reasons they do it.
[1353.05] Ben Heck: They don't necessarily build it to say, ha ha,
[1357.05] Ben Heck: you can't repair this.
[1358.05] Ben Heck: It's more like we're building it as cheap as possible.
[1360.05] Ben Heck: And because we build it as cheap as possible,
[1362.05] Ben Heck: that makes it more difficult to repair,
[1364.05] Ben Heck: making it less feasible to repair.
[1367.05] Tony: But what I want to know is how much more expensive
[1370.05] Tony: would it be for screws?
[1372.05] Ben Heck: Well, if you take it like however many screws there are in a device
[1375.05] Ben Heck: and then you multiply it by 10 million iPhones
[1378.05] Ben Heck: and then you're like, oh, we've got to have the screw
[1380.05] Ben Heck: and the time it takes.
[1382.05] Ben Heck: Now, if you open up something, there's tons of screws inside of it.
[1384.05] Ben Heck: But also, not just that, it's like, oh, look at how beautiful.
[1388.05] Ben Heck: Well, this is a Pixel 2.
[1389.05] Ben Heck: It's not that, it's old.
[1391.05] Tony: Tony's got a new phone.
[1393.05] Ben Heck: They're like, oh, I can't have screws in the back of my phone.
[1396.05] Ben Heck: It's a fashion statement, right?
[1398.05] Ben Heck: Like Apple's got the Apple logo here
[1400.05] Ben Heck: and then you get the case and it has a hole in it
[1402.05] Ben Heck: so people can see the Apple logo.
[1404.05] Ben Heck: That's a fashion product at that point, not electronics.
[1408.05] Ben Heck: And so, again, I'm just saying the consumer is bringing on themselves as well.
[1412.05] Ben Heck: I'd like to compare that to, I've got to have something here.
[1415.05] Ben Heck: Oh, yeah, here we go.
[1416.05] Ben Heck: It's a good old Casio graphing calculator.
[1419.05] Ben Heck: It's got screws on the back, but this would be considered ugly
[1422.05] Ben Heck: by today's standards.
[1424.05] Ben Heck: I think it's beautiful.
[1426.05] Ben Heck: Yeah, I think that's a big part or waterproofing.
[1429.05] Ben Heck: You're like, oh, you can drop your phone into the ocean
[1432.05] Ben Heck: and it'll be fine as long as you pick it up in 10 seconds or whatever.
[1437.05] Ben Heck: Glue is a really good way to make something waterproof.
[1441.05] Ben Heck: So, it's not all about malice.
[1443.05] Ben Heck: A lot of it is a byproduct of just how things are made.
[1445.05] Ben Heck: And also the kind of features consumers want.
[1448.05] Ben Heck: Same thing with a small GoPro.
[1450.05] Ben Heck: If a GoPro is easier to fix, it would end up being bigger.
[1453.05] Ben Heck: I mean, to be quite honest, it would be like a regular-sized camera.
[1457.05] Ben Heck: And so, you know, there's a ying and a yang there.
[1459.05] Ben Heck: I'm sorry, what were you saying?
[1461.05] Curry: I was just saying, didn't Apple, in some of the early iPhone days,
[1465.05] Curry: put some sort of thing in their phones
[1468.05] Curry: so if you dropped it in water, it would sort of show up.
[1471.05] Curry: So, people that accidentally dropped in the toilet and taken it to repair.
[1475.05] Curry: You've dropped this in water.
[1477.05] Ben Heck: Everything has that.
[1479.05] Ben Heck: A Nintendo Switch has that even.
[1481.05] Ben Heck: Yeah, there's just little stickers that turn pink
[1484.05] Ben Heck: and there's usually two or three of them.
[1486.05] Ben Heck: But yes, it's very common because, you know, it's like insurance.
[1489.05] Ben Heck: They want any excuse to not fix it or to make you pay to fix it.
[1494.05] Tony: Yeah, because over in America, I don't know how...
[1498.05] Tony: It's different in every state.
[1500.05] Tony: You kind of have to...
[1502.05] Tony: If you're persistent enough, they have to prove
[1504.05] Tony: that it was you that damaged, caused the damage.
[1508.05] Ben Heck: Yes, it does vary by state.
[1511.05] Ben Heck: It doesn't vary a whole lot.
[1513.05] Ben Heck: And then going back to the right to repair,
[1515.05] Ben Heck: I think Lewis is starting in Massachusetts, I believe.
[1517.05] Ben Heck: I can't remember...
[1518.05] Ben Heck: Oh yes, because Massachusetts has...
[1520.05] Ben Heck: What?
[1521.05] Tony: Yeah, I think the right to repair started winning over there.
[1526.05] Tony: Right.
[1528.05] Ben Heck: Well, because, you know, if you talk about it from a political angle,
[1531.05] Ben Heck: like the United States of America is a democratically elected representative republic,
[1535.05] Ben Heck: which means if you go to Congress, I can't say,
[1538.05] Ben Heck: hey, Congress, vote for right to repair.
[1541.05] Ben Heck: It's like, no, you elect someone and they vote for right to repair.
[1544.05] Ben Heck: But in Massachusetts as a state, because I know...
[1548.05] Ben Heck: Sometimes I know America is baffling to a lot of other countries.
[1551.05] Ben Heck: It's almost like 50 little countries, kind of almost like the EU in a way.
[1556.05] Ben Heck: At the state level, sometimes you have...
[1560.05] Ben Heck: You'll have a direct ballot initiative.
[1564.05] Ben Heck: And Massachusetts, as a state in the state constitution,
[1568.05] Ben Heck: they have the option for a direct ballot initiative,
[1570.05] Ben Heck: which can be like, okay, voting season, okay, residents of Massachusetts.
[1574.05] Ben Heck: Do you want to legalize pot? Yes or no?
[1576.05] Ben Heck: And if it's over 50%, you get pot.
[1579.05] Ben Heck: Or same thing, right to repair in Massachusetts.
[1581.05] Ben Heck: So that's why he's starting at the state level and also in that particular state.
[1586.05] Ben Heck: But once you get to the, at least in America,
[1589.05] Ben Heck: once you get to the federal level,
[1591.05] Ben Heck: you're going to have Apple, Nintendo and everybody else
[1594.05] Ben Heck: vomiting money at all these senators and Congress people to not do it.
[1599.05] Tony: I'm paying them not to show up at meetings.
[1602.05] Ben Heck: Oh, and another big one, the John Deere,
[1606.05] Ben Heck: the people that make all the farming equipment.
[1608.05] Ben Heck: I mean, farmers have known about...
[1610.05] Ben Heck: Farmers that got hit with right to repair long before any of us.
[1613.05] Ben Heck: It's just ridiculous because these companies use
[1617.05] Ben Heck: planned obsolescence and services like Apple.
[1621.05] Ben Heck: I was like, oh, Apple is a trillion dollar company.
[1623.05] Ben Heck: Apparently it's okay for Apple to be a giant evil company, but not other.
[1627.05] Ben Heck: It's like, oh, we love Apple.
[1629.05] Ben Heck: But it's because so much of it is services and repairs division
[1632.05] Ben Heck: where they make money based off the fact
[1634.05] Ben Heck: that they overcharge you to replace a battery in your phone.
[1637.05] Ben Heck: So by siloing the repair structure into their own,
[1641.05] Ben Heck: the Apple store versus like Louis Rossman,
[1644.05] Ben Heck: they have that actually as part of their profit structure.
[1646.05] Ben Heck: So, yeah, so it makes it more difficult to break,
[1650.05] Ben Heck: makes it so you cannot buy the parts,
[1652.05] Ben Heck: but Apple of course can get the parts.
[1654.05] Ben Heck: And then that way they silo more of the repair at an inflated rate,
[1657.05] Ben Heck: even though they don't pay their employees more
[1659.05] Ben Heck: into their own corporate profit system.
[1661.05] Ben Heck: And what I told Louis regarding this,
[1665.05] Ben Heck: I keep wanting to say Louis, but he's not French.
[1668.05] Ben Heck: I keep wanting, I said, you know, the really,
[1670.05] Ben Heck: the way you have to drive it home is with cars because, you know,
[1674.05] Ben Heck: if my car breaks, I can go to, you know,
[1677.05] Ben Heck: there's like five different auto shops within walking distance.
[1680.05] Ben Heck: Yeah, independent.
[1681.05] Ben Heck: And that's what, you know, people are used to, right?
[1683.05] Ben Heck: But you get to the point, like with a Tesla, guess what?
[1686.05] Ben Heck: You can only take it to a Tesla dealership,
[1688.05] Ben Heck: which is why Teslas are not only expensive,
[1691.05] Ben Heck: but they're actually more expensive to ensure,
[1693.05] Ben Heck: wait, ensure with an eye.
[1695.05] Ben Heck: I want to make sure I get that right.
[1696.05] Ben Heck: Because the cost of repair is higher because there's usually
[1699.05] Ben Heck: a waiting list for repair and there's only one place to do it.
[1702.05] Tony: Unless you go to the electrified garage.
[1705.05] Tony: There you go, Richie.
[1709.05] Tony: Send me a t-shirt, yo.
[1712.05] Tony: Wow, man.
[1714.05] Tony: What was I going to say?
[1715.05] Tony: Do we need this kakari disclaimer?
[1718.05] Tony: Or it's probably too late now.
[1720.05] Curry: We've taken our pathetic girls on a company that's not DJI.
[1723.05] Curry: We're fine.
[1726.05] Ben Heck: Is this becoming a problem with your drone enthusiasm?
[1732.05] Frank: There's definitely some more walled gardens appearing
[1735.05] Frank: and becoming more popular.
[1737.05] Frank: So, I mean, there have always been some on the periphery,
[1741.05] Frank: but the biggest one now is that the DJI,
[1745.05] Frank: who are the kind of big player in drones generally,
[1749.05] Frank: have released a kind of camera system
[1755.05] Frank: that is being adopted by more of the kind of race style drones,
[1760.05] Frank: which is the DJI HD FPV system.
[1763.05] Frank: So, whereas sort of traditionally we've been using analog,
[1768.05] Frank: like CCTV cameras, tiny little board cams
[1773.05] Frank: with analog video transmitters and analog video receivers,
[1776.05] Frank: which is either just using PAL or NTSC or whatever,
[1779.05] Frank: now it's using a kind of proprietary encrypted protocol,
[1785.05] Frank: which means that on the one hand,
[1787.05] Frank: you get the really nice HD image, but at a low latency
[1793.05] Frank: because they're doing magic and we don't know what it is.
[1796.05] Frank: But on the other hand, it is closed.
[1799.05] Frank: So, for example, where they've released a new product
[1803.05] Frank: that is their own drone that has kind of their own camera in it,
[1808.05] Frank: if you have their goggles and you connect it to their new drone,
[1814.05] Frank: all of a sudden the old systems that they were producing
[1817.05] Frank: that we'd been kind of incorporating into our drones,
[1820.05] Frank: all of a sudden you can't connect to those without a lot of faff,
[1824.05] Frank: trying to reflash it and things.
[1826.05] Ben Heck: Were the old systems analog video?
[1829.05] Frank: So, sort of the old, old system,
[1833.05] Frank: so our analog and most of us here are still using just analog systems
[1838.05] Frank: and it's just PAL and that's all fine and that's all completely separate.
[1842.05] Frank: But there are some people who have bought the DJI HD cameras,
[1849.05] Frank: HD transmitters and HD goggles
[1852.05] Frank: and have been putting those cameras and transmitters
[1855.05] Frank: into their old carbon fiber type drones.
[1860.05] Frank: And then DJI have released a new drone
[1865.05] Frank: that is all kind of included in one.
[1867.05] Frank: So, rather than having a separate camera and transmitter
[1871.05] Frank: that you're including into a build, this is just one ready-to-fly product.
[1875.05] Frank: And if you get your, someone else might have to correct me on this,
[1880.05] Frank: but if you get your goggles to connect to one of those new proprietary drones,
[1885.05] Frank: it won't connect to the old, or not very old,
[1890.05] Frank: but months old transmitter and camera that DJI have released.
[1895.05] Ben Heck: So, it locks it out from using pass revisions?
[1898.05] Ben Heck: Yeah.
[1899.05] Ben Heck: Do you have to update the firmware when you make it work with a new video?
[1903.05] Ben Heck: I'm just kind of wondering where the breakpoint occurs.
[1906.05] Frank: Yeah.
[1907.05] Frank: I think that's probably the case,
[1909.05] Frank: that is just a case of its new firmware that it's using,
[1913.05] Frank: but that's my, that would be my guess, but I don't know.
[1920.05] Frank: Brandon there.
[1921.05] Curry: Back to that previous mode, as I said,
[1923.05] Curry: but you have to, there's a lot of options to go back and forth
[1927.05] Curry: to eventually get there.
[1930.05] Tony: You have to reboot into FPV mode.
[1933.05] Tony: What I was led to believe is the, oh, and then rebind it.
[1937.05] Tony: Yeah. Oh God, that's really handy.
[1941.05] Tony: What I, from my take of it was they released a version FPV goggles V1,
[1949.05] Tony: and you had little standalone, you had something called Nair Unit,
[1954.05] Tony: which had the VTX and had a little camera that was connected via,
[1959.05] Tony: you know, those weird cables with after laser the ends off
[1962.05] Tony: and then sort of them, the tiny, tiny cameras.
[1967.05] Tony: And that was, that was the sort of like digital ecosystem
[1970.05] Tony: that we could integrate into these carbon fiber quads,
[1975.05] Tony: because before then they've been selling ready to fly quads,
[1982.05] Tony: drones like the Mavic, the Phantom,
[1985.05] Tony: stuff that you probably have heard of and their venture,
[1989.05] Tony: they're sort of like crossover was, hey guys, we've released digital FPV,
[1993.05] Tony: little standalone units.
[1995.05] Tony: They had a company, another company called Cadex
[2001.05] Tony: that made a slightly cheaper sort of smaller version,
[2005.05] Tony: but that didn't have diversity antennas on there.
[2008.05] Tony: So there wasn't, there was only one antenna on there, on the little,
[2013.05] Tony: we call them Cadex units.
[2014.05] Tony: And then they released the V2 goggles.
[2017.05] Tony: And the reason why they made the V2 was because they included this sort of in
[2022.05] Tony: between drone, which is called the DJI FPV,
[2027.05] Tony: which allows you to have different levels of flying,
[2031.05] Tony: ones where it would fly and hover itself and you just push it around the sky.
[2035.05] Tony: You still had like the stuff like return to home.
[2038.05] Tony: And then you'd have something we call like angle mode
[2044.05] Tony: where you would be able to steer it around,
[2047.05] Tony: but it would always return to like level.
[2049.05] Tony: And you've got like this button that you tap and it kind of saves itself.
[2055.05] Tony: And when they released that, if you bought the V2 goggles on their own,
[2062.05] Tony: you couldn't, there was some sort of registration problem.
[2065.05] Tony: Like when you buy these goggles, you know,
[2068.05] Tony: essentially goggles to what, you know, look through a CCTV camera,
[2073.05] Tony: you have to register them. So like with them, you know, it's like,
[2078.05] Tony: it's like buying a car and then being like, Oh no, we sold you the car,
[2082.05] Tony: but you've got to register this car,
[2084.05] Tony: not only to the licensing people, but to us that we want to know who you are.
[2089.05] Tony: You bought this car and what you're using it for.
[2091.05] Tony: I don't know whether.
[2092.05] Ben Heck: Well, yeah, you see that. You see that all the time.
[2094.05] Ben Heck: I like, it's like, Oh, I bought this, you know,
[2097.05] Ben Heck: like a smart plug or whatever, right?
[2099.05] Ben Heck: But if it's not the same brand you have before, guess what?
[2101.05] Ben Heck: Now you have to sign up for their app, put it on the phone,
[2104.05] Ben Heck: even to connect it to the same thing. Like one of those Alexa's or whatever.
[2107.05] Ben Heck: Yeah. It's like, Oh, they want a password and a username for every brand of app.
[2112.05] Ben Heck: And it's, it's annoying, but that's kind of what we come to.
[2115.05] Ben Heck: The, I was thinking when you're talking about a broadcasting analog video
[2121.05] Ben Heck: that probably takes up a decent amount of bandwidth.
[2124.05] Ben Heck: What, what frequency does a broadcast at?
[2128.05] Frank: That is at 5.8 gigahertz.
[2132.05] Ben Heck: Okay. All right.
[2134.05] Tony: Would you like a breakdown of a table with me that lists all the frequencies?
[2147.05] Curry: And what's the max number we can get in the air, Frank?
[2152.05] Frank: Six reliably.
[2154.05] Curry: Yeah.
[2156.05] Curry: Fun though, when, when you, you're flying around and then someone else switches on
[2160.05] Curry: and suddenly you're looking for your goggles and you can just see someone's shoes.
[2164.05] Curry: That's a little bit of a tight bottom moment.
[2167.05] Ben Heck: Yeah. Well, the reason I asked that I was thinking about, you know,
[2171.05] Ben Heck: when they switched over from analog to digital television and you guys have
[2174.05] Ben Heck: analog or digital radio over the two, like it's called Hab or slab or something.
[2179.05] Ben Heck: Maybe.
[2180.05] Ben Heck: Dab. Yes. Um, they do that because, you know, you can take, oh, what's TV?
[2187.05] Ben Heck: Six megahertz NTSC is six megahertz of width.
[2190.05] Ben Heck: Never the same color.
[2192.05] Ben Heck: Never the same color. Yeah. Yeah.
[2194.05] Ben Heck: Is there an acronym for Powell as well?
[2197.05] Ben Heck: Aside from phase alternating line.
[2199.05] Ben Heck: Yeah, not well.
[2201.05] Ben Heck: Well, no, pal is better. So we don't make fun of it.
[2205.05] Ben Heck: Yeah. Um, anyway.
[2208.05] Ben Heck: Yeah. But so if you take that six megahertz and if you turn it digital, you can,
[2211.05] Ben Heck: you know, it's like the reason they did it was because they wanted more bandwidth
[2215.05] Ben Heck: for cell phones, right? So I kind of wonder if there's going to be a point
[2218.05] Ben Heck: where, I mean, they could again,
[2221.05] Ben Heck: the government could actually stop you from using analog video transmission in the future.
[2226.05] Ben Heck: Well, I'm sure there's restrictions on it anyway,
[2228.05] Ben Heck: for whatever your version of the FCC is like, you know,
[2231.05] Ben Heck: the transmitter range can only be this.
[2233.05] Ben Heck: You can only transmit it in certain, certain frequencies.
[2235.05] Ben Heck: But if you go digital, oh, you know, the same space where you fit one analog signal,
[2239.05] Ben Heck: we can fit five HD signals. And I guess I'm kind of saying what could happen
[2243.05] Ben Heck: on the road is you guys might just get pushed into that either.
[2246.05] Ben Heck: Yeah. The analog stuff is well, it was still,
[2250.05] Ben Heck: it was still work for the bandwidth could get, you know, reallocated.
[2253.05] Frank: Yeah. There's that's,
[2254.05] Frank: that's a kind of perennial rumor that goes about is offcomer going to remove
[2259.05] Frank: the unlicensed band around 5.8 gigahertz.
[2263.05] Frank: And especially with kind of 5G being there and sort of taking up
[2268.05] Frank: all the other bits of spectrum that are kind of available.
[2272.05] Frank: And, you know, the spectrum is definitely getting more and more crowded.
[2276.05] Ben Heck: So it's 5.8 gigahertz.
[2279.05] Ben Heck: Is it 5G like 25? I think it's quite a bit higher.
[2282.05] Frank: Oh, yeah. But I just mean there's, there's bits of,
[2285.05] Frank: so 5G includes loads of different frequencies,
[2288.05] Frank: but it's basically just bits between other licensed bands.
[2292.05] Frank: So some of it is like 60 gigahertz, but some of it is a bit lower.
[2296.05] Frank: But I just mean that in terms of there, there is more and more bits
[2301.05] Frank: of the spectrum being licensed off for applications like that.
[2305.05] Frank: And so, you know, the, the, yeah, like you say,
[2309.05] Frank: the likelihood of this unlicensed band around 5.8 gigahertz being
[2313.05] Frank: all of a sudden licensed is, is getting, yeah,
[2318.05] Frank: that's getting more and more likely.
[2320.05] Frank: But at the moment, there's no, nothing credible saying,
[2323.05] Frank: it's going to be licensed any time soon.
[2325.05] Ben Heck: I don't think danger would be that it would become unlicensed.
[2328.05] Ben Heck: It might be, oh, in order to use this unlicensed band,
[2330.05] Ben Heck: you have to use a higher efficiency transmission system,
[2333.05] Ben Heck: which would be your digital system.
[2335.05] Frank: Yeah. I mean, unlicensed in terms of at the moment is basically
[2338.05] Frank: between this megahertz and that megahertz,
[2340.05] Frank: you can do whatever you like in that spectrum.
[2343.05] Frank: And there's one at the 5.8 gigahertz for a little bit of that.
[2348.05] Frank: And there's also another one that's commonly used around
[2351.05] Frank: 433 megahertz, which is where all the kind of garage door
[2354.05] Frank: closes and bits and pieces like that and light switches or that
[2359.05] Frank: kind of thing or older ones.
[2362.05] Frank: That's where they are around.
[2363.05] Frank: And yeah, so there's, you know, that's, that's the kind of
[2366.05] Frank: issue is, yeah, spectrum licensing.
[2371.05] Frank: And so at the moment,
[2372.05] Curry: It's definitely become more busy just on the amount of 5.8 Wi-Fi.
[2377.05] Curry: You certainly notice that if you're flying like indoors with
[2379.05] Curry: something like this, the amount of devices,
[2382.05] Curry: especially with most people at home, you're just seeing lines
[2385.05] Curry: all over the video where it used to be fairly clean.
[2387.05] Curry: It's like this big Wi-Fi route is like bursting out amazing
[2391.05] Curry: amounts of strength.
[2393.05] Ben Heck: Yeah. That's, you know, when people are like, oh, no, I mean,
[2398.05] Ben Heck: it's like all the ISP is trying to screw over my phone and
[2401.05] Ben Heck: take the bandwidth.
[2402.05] Ben Heck: It's like, well, yeah, maybe.
[2403.05] Ben Heck: But the electromagnetic spectrum is a finite thing.
[2406.05] Ben Heck: You know, you can't create more, you know, unless you actually
[2410.05] Ben Heck: have quantumly charged particles tunneling and stuff like that.
[2413.05] Ben Heck: Until we do that, you know, there's a finite spectrum of, you
[2417.05] Ben Heck: know, eventually you get up into visible light, you know,
[2420.05] Ben Heck: if you go too high.
[2422.05] Ben Heck: Yeah.
[2423.05] Ben Heck: I guess we kind of got off the subject of right.
[2425.05] Frank: So kind of learning stuff is fine.
[2428.05] Frank: So what we're kind of saying is that, you know, there's this
[2432.05] Frank: you know, to be able to get a low latency digital video
[2436.05] Frank: system, there is currently this very closed kind of ecosystem
[2442.05] Frank: which they initially made very easy to incorporate into the
[2446.05] Frank: sort of, you know.
[2450.05] Ben Heck: So basically they want you to buy a new drone to get it.
[2453.05] Frank: Yeah, exactly.
[2454.05] Frank: And then they're kind of making it more and more harder to
[2457.05] Frank: integrate into the kind of traditional way of doing things,
[2460.05] Frank: you know, make it easy to get into the walled garden and
[2462.05] Frank: then harder to get out.
[2464.05] Ben Heck: Especially if there's like really special sauce going on
[2467.05] Ben Heck: with the encoding, which they're very well could be, it could
[2470.05] Ben Heck: be doing, who knows, it could be doing predictive image
[2473.05] Ben Heck: reconstruction and stuff like that.
[2475.05] Ben Heck: You're like, I don't want to say AI, but almost, you know.
[2478.05] Frank: Yeah.
[2479.05] Frank: This episode was recorded in front of a live online audience,
[2482.05] Frank: downloaded and edited to make sense when it played audio
[2485.05] Frank: only, censored to please the iTunes people, hosted on the
[2488.05] Frank: internet, forwarded through to your podcast provider,
[2490.05] Frank: downloaded, playing on your device and is now playing in
[2493.05] Frank: your ears.
[2494.05] Frank: All thanks to our Patreons.
[2496.05] Frank: Consider joining them and you'll also get other online
[2498.05] Frank: benefits.
[2499.05] Frank: Find out more at patreon.com forward slash let's drone out.
[2504.05] Ben Heck: I mean, you ever hear about Google Stadia, that streaming
[2507.05] Ben Heck: service for gaming that, you know, is going to be the latest
[2509.05] Ben Heck: thing that Google probably cancels?
[2511.05] Frank: Yeah, I think it's already been announced that that's ending,
[2514.05] Frank: right?
[2515.05] Frank: I feel like I've heard something about that.
[2517.05] Ben Heck: Yeah, but the thing is all the companies are still,
[2519.05] Ben Heck: everybody is, everybody's investing in that.
[2522.05] Ben Heck: It's insane.
[2523.05] Ben Heck: Well, the reason I bring that up because I just brought up
[2525.05] Ben Heck: the, you know, the predictive image encoding, like on the
[2529.05] Ben Heck: server side, the Google server or the whatever, it'll actually
[2533.05] Ben Heck: render.
[2534.05] Ben Heck: It's like, let's say you're playing a video game like, oh,
[2536.05] Ben Heck: look, there's a bad guy.
[2537.05] Ben Heck: I'm going to shoot him, but maybe you don't shoot him,
[2539.05] Ben Heck: right?
[2540.05] Ben Heck: The system will actually render different outcomes based on
[2543.05] Ben Heck: what it thinks you might do.
[2544.05] Ben Heck: And then it'll serve you the outcome of what you did to
[2547.05] Ben Heck: hide latency.
[2549.05] Ben Heck: So I'm kind of wondering if you're racing drones, if there
[2552.05] Ben Heck: might be doing something similar, like, okay, we don't need to
[2555.05] Ben Heck: transmit this low, this low detail area.
[2557.05] Ben Heck: We don't need to transmit that, that we don't expect.
[2560.05] Ben Heck: That's the sky.
[2561.05] Ben Heck: It's a sunny day.
[2562.05] Ben Heck: We don't expect that to change.
[2563.05] Ben Heck: So we're not going to re-encode that.
[2565.05] Ben Heck: There's quite possibly a lot of pretty clever coding going on
[2569.05] Ben Heck: and they're going to want to protect that and also say, well,
[2573.05] Ben Heck: we have this investment in this clever code.
[2575.05] Ben Heck: And yeah, we get X amount out of the camera, but if we want to
[2578.05] Ben Heck: make even more, we sell the whole drone.
[2581.05] Frank: But yeah, I mean, I think that's kind of an important thing.
[2586.05] Frank: I mean, it's kind of at what point is it unreasonable?
[2590.05] Frank: Because, you know, they've spent a lot of money developing this
[2593.05] Frank: system that the open source community has had like a go out.
[2598.05] Frank: No way kind of near there.
[2603.05] Frank: So, you know, isn't it their right to like make the money off
[2608.05] Frank: of that that they've put into it?
[2611.05] Ben Heck: It just kind of sucks that, you know, they can, yeah,
[2614.05] Ben Heck: if they have a really good product, they can use it to
[2616.05] Ben Heck: leverage sales of something new.
[2618.05] Ben Heck: And again, you talk about there's a homebrew community, but
[2622.05] Ben Heck: you know, there's a big difference.
[2623.05] Ben Heck: I mean, I'm just extrapolating, you know, my theory on how it
[2626.05] Ben Heck: might work.
[2627.05] Ben Heck: But if you have someone like, oh, I'm just going to stream.
[2629.05] Ben Heck: Here's a camera.
[2630.05] Ben Heck: Here's bandwidth.
[2631.05] Ben Heck: Here's a receiver.
[2632.05] Ben Heck: I'm just going to stream data over that.
[2634.05] Ben Heck: Just dumping the data or but if they are doing something
[2637.05] Ben Heck: clever to basically give the impression of higher or lower
[2642.05] Ben Heck: latency, that kind of special sauce might be something that
[2646.05] Ben Heck: is, you know, a homebrewer is going to do it nights and
[2649.05] Ben Heck: weekends where they don't have to mow the lawn or take their
[2651.05] Ben Heck: kids to dance recital versus somebody who's paid, you know,
[2655.05] Ben Heck: $200,000 a year to work on that 40 hours a week.
[2658.05] Ben Heck: In a lot of cases, you know, a homebrewer isn't going to
[2661.05] Ben Heck: recreate Windows, you know, or Apple iOS.
[2663.05] Ben Heck: So, you know, there is a point where you might not be able to
[2667.05] Ben Heck: compete with large companies as far as that stuff is
[2669.05] Ben Heck: concerned, especially if they're doing, you know, fairly
[2671.05] Ben Heck: advanced image software manipulation.
[2674.05] Frank: And I guess on a similar point, I mean, earlier you were
[2677.05] Frank: saying about, you know, if you drop something in the water
[2681.05] Frank: and it's got the little pink dot, like, isn't that reasonable
[2685.05] Frank: that if you screwed up and dropped something in some
[2688.05] Frank: water, then you're going to have to pay to get it fixed?
[2691.05] Ben Heck: Not just that, but if it's like, oh, because yes, you're
[2694.05] Ben Heck: like, unless you're trying to say, oh, I didn't drop it in
[2696.05] Ben Heck: water and then they say that you didn't.
[2698.05] Ben Heck: But on the other hand, it's like, okay, this thing failed.
[2701.05] Ben Heck: So let's say, you know, they send the phone to, you know,
[2705.05] Ben Heck: China and they've got like a 10-year-old kid trying to fix
[2707.05] Ben Heck: it. It's like, okay, what failed?
[2709.05] Ben Heck: Okay, well, this sense or this piece of paper indicates that
[2712.05] Ben Heck: it went into water.
[2713.05] Ben Heck: It's like, okay, since this phone went into water, that
[2716.05] Ben Heck: means X, Y, Z, Z, Z, X, Y, Z could have failed, right?
[2722.05] Ben Heck: What's he saying?
[2723.05] Ben Heck: What?
[2724.05] Ben Heck: Z, Z, Z.
[2725.05] Ben Heck: By knowing, like, if you crash your car into a brick wall
[2729.05] Ben Heck: or it goes into a lake, it's going to be damaged in
[2732.05] Ben Heck: different ways.
[2733.05] Ben Heck: So yes, knowing that water was inside the unit is, it helps
[2737.05] Ben Heck: you're like, okay, I'm not going to waste my time with
[2739.05] Ben Heck: these other things because water would break these things.
[2742.05] Ben Heck: So it can, it can speed up the refurbishment process, knowing
[2746.05] Tony: the truth.
[2747.05] Ben Heck: Yeah, yeah.
[2749.05] Ben Heck: Like, water isn't going to destroy the screen, but it could
[2752.05] Ben Heck: cause a battery charger to short circuit.
[2755.05] Ben Heck: So, yeah, for instance.
[2757.05] Ben Heck: Yeah, I mean.
[2758.05] Ben Heck: Although the conductivity of water is greatly exaggerated
[2761.05] Ben Heck: by Hollywood.
[2763.05] Tony: Unless there's salty water.
[2766.05] Tony: Yeah, salty water.
[2767.05] Tony: Delicious.
[2769.05] Tony: But for instance, it's like a lot of this right to repair
[2773.05] Tony: argument.
[2774.05] Tony: I don't know whether you're familiar with Linus Tech Tips,
[2776.05] Tony: but they bought a brand new, one of the IMAX, not, you know,
[2783.05] Tony: not the M1 ones.
[2785.05] Tony: Yeah, the big screen ones, right?
[2787.05] Tony: Yeah, the very large ones.
[2789.05] Tony: And they, Anthony, like, damaged the screen.
[2793.05] Tony: And they went back to Apple and they were like, look, we
[2795.05] Tony: damaged the screen.
[2796.05] Tony: We'll pay for the repair.
[2798.05] Tony: And they were like, we can't repair that.
[2801.05] Tony: And then you go higher up the chain.
[2803.05] Tony: And they're like, no.
[2804.05] Tony: And like half the time is, half the time it's just trying to
[2809.05] Tony: get your stuff, you know, fixed, you know, as in like, for
[2815.05] Tony: instance, I've got a little bit here about recycling.
[2822.05] Tony: Let's play a game.
[2823.05] Tony: Anyone got any ideas?
[2825.05] Tony: Have a guess at how many tons of e-waste every year in the
[2832.05] Tony: UK.
[2833.05] Tony: Throw some numbers out.
[2835.05] Tony: Close to one waste.
[2836.05] Tony: E-waste or E?
[2839.05] Tony: E-waste.
[2840.05] Tony: Okay.
[2841.05] Curry: What's e-waste?
[2842.05] Curry: Is that just like electronics?
[2843.05] Tony: Electronics.
[2844.05] Tony: Electronic e-waste, yeah.
[2846.05] Tony: Lots.
[2847.05] Tony: More than four.
[2848.05] Tony: Quite a lot of phones to different places.
[2850.05] Tony: How many millions of tons then?
[2853.05] (Patrons): One billion dollars tons.
[2856.05] (Patrons): No.
[2857.05] Tony: 600,000.
[2859.05] Tony: No.
[2860.05] Tony: It's 1.5 million tons of e-waste every year.
[2865.05] Ben Heck: Do you guys use pounds over there?
[2867.05] Ben Heck: I mean, the weight, not the dollar.
[2869.05] Ben Heck: I can't remember.
[2870.05] Tony: No, we got pounds.
[2871.05] Tony: It's just getting confusing.
[2872.05] Tony: We used to.
[2873.05] Tony: So this would be a ton.
[2875.05] Ben Heck: This would literally be a metric ton then?
[2877.05] Ben Heck: Yes.
[2878.05] Tony: Oh, okay.
[2879.05] Ben Heck: Cool.
[2880.05] Tony: Yeah.
[2881.05] Tony: It's very difficult to almost get things, get parts and maintain things and stop it
[2893.65] Tony: all just going to e-waste.
[2896.93] Tony: You're almost encouraged to just buy new and replace.
[2903.45] Tony: Over here, we've got like, especially with like, everyone can kind of get their head
[2908.37] Tony: around cars.
[2909.37] Tony: Back when I was like learning mechanics, I was taught about, we've got like this sort
[2917.65] Tony: of like law here that if you have work done within your warranty period and then you want
[2924.33] Tony: to claim a warranty, they can't penalize you for using third party stuff that's been made
[2931.13] Tony: within the specifications of OEM because there's no argument that just because this
[2937.13] Tony: has got that car's brand sticker on it that is not going to be as good or worse or better
[2946.97] Tony: than the original OEM.
[2949.37] Tony: The way that they kind of divide the independent carriages is if, say, you were, for example,
[2959.61] Tony: wanting to open a Ford repair shop, you can do that as a franchise, but then they kind
[2968.49] Tony: of give you hoops and hurdles to jump over.
[2971.77] Tony: You've got to have so many lumens of light for your technicians to work in and you've
[2978.05] Tony: got to have a set amount of lifts.
[2980.21] Ben Heck: It's like opening a McDonald's.
[2982.13] Tony: Yes, and I don't know whether you kept up with the McDonald's ice cream machine saga.
[2991.45] Ben Heck: Oh, I've heard about it.
[2993.49] Ben Heck: Yeah, it's, again, it's like, hey, look, we sell this much service time every week or
[3001.53] Ben Heck: every month.
[3002.53] Tony: That's attached into their margins.
[3005.29] Tony: The machine, if you fill it a couple of mil over its max line, it won't reach its pasteurization
[3013.69] Tony: cycles, temperature, and therefore, all roads lead to call the guy or female.
[3023.73] Ben Heck: The unfortunate thing is that if you are a McDonald's, you're going to be like, okay,
[3027.89] Ben Heck: this thing sucks, but corporate says we have to use this machine and you're just going
[3032.69] Ben Heck: to roll that cost of the repair person coming into your overall budget.
[3037.65] Ben Heck: To you, it's like, okay, screw it.
[3039.93] Ben Heck: The machine costs you this much and the guy costs you this much, and so you just look
[3044.01] Ben Heck: at that as one cost.
[3045.17] Ben Heck: For a lot of people, they probably don't even bother.
[3048.45] Ben Heck: You see what I'm saying?
[3049.49] Ben Heck: As a business, you'd be like, oh, well, that's just the cost of doing business.
[3052.69] Ben Heck: Again, yeah, like if you had a car and you could only take it to a certain shop or have
[3056.85] Ben Heck: a certain type of technician work on it, then as a consumer, you'd be pissed off, but a
[3061.49] Ben Heck: business is probably, they have a hundred other things to worry about as well, so it's
[3066.37] Ben Heck: probably a good way to slip that in under the radar.
[3068.29] Ben Heck: Oh, and I had to look it up.
[3070.69] Ben Heck: Imperial ton and metric ton is actually the same weight.
[3073.73] Ben Heck: What?
[3074.73] Ben Heck: Yes.
[3075.73] Tony: A metric ton.
[3076.73] Tony: Weird crossover.
[3077.73] Ben Heck: Yeah, but you know, you mentioned- The gallon is different.
[3082.77] Ben Heck: Yeah, so a ton here, like if you had a two ton truck, it's 22, well, it's 2,240 pounds
[3090.65] Ben Heck: imperial, a metric ton is, well, actually it makes more sense, it's 1,000 kilograms,
[3096.65] Ben Heck: which is approximately 2,200 pounds, so interesting.
[3103.61] Ben Heck: We always say like metric ton, we say that as a joke, like, oh, I've got a, it's a metric
[3107.77] Ben Heck: ton of work or something like that, but interesting.
[3113.77] Curry: In the UK, we're weirdly, we're a weird mix.
[3116.53] Curry: Most of Europe, purely metric.
[3118.81] Curry: As in the UK, we like to talk about stones and pounds for weight.
[3121.89] Curry: We talk feet and inches for height, all our roads, sine, miles and miles per hour.
[3128.85] Curry: We'd call ourselves metric otherwise, which is just weird.
[3132.05] Ben Heck: I went to the UK once and it was weird to see the strange mix.
[3135.93] Ben Heck: I did like how all of you things start with zero, from an engineering standpoint, I like
[3140.69] Ben Heck: that, or programming, like zero floor, zero train.
[3144.53] Ben Heck: I thought that was cool.
[3145.53] Tony: Zero is a number.
[3147.53] Tony: Yes, yes.
[3148.53] Tony: The value, it's a logical integer value.
[3153.53] Ben Heck: I was actually dealing with that just yesterday, I was working on a pulse width modulation
[3158.49] Ben Heck: counter and I'm like, am I causing an overflow of the period by going to zero instead of
[3163.89] Ben Heck: one on the counter?
[3164.89] Ben Heck: And I'm like, well, I could fix it by going to one, but I'm like, no, it has to start
[3168.85] Ben Heck: at zero.
[3169.85] Ben Heck: Shoot, I was going to, that reminds me of something else, but I can't, oh yeah, well,
[3176.85] Ben Heck: I think I brought this up earlier, but yeah, like with the cars, people expect that, oh,
[3180.97] Ben Heck: you know, I can take, oh yes, I remember I was going to say, yeah.
[3183.29] Ben Heck: So you have like, you're talking about a Ford dealership or like, you know, Joe blows car
[3188.45] Ben Heck: repair.
[3189.45] Ben Heck: Yeah.
[3190.45] Ben Heck: Um, so if it's like, I don't know, at least here in America, like if you're someone you're
[3195.85] Ben Heck: like, oh, my Ford is out of warranty, but I'm going to have it fixed at the Ford dealership.
[3200.53] Ben Heck: That's something that like really well off people do, you know, cause it's going to cost
[3204.05] Tony: you.
[3205.05] Tony: Right.
[3206.05] Tony: Right.
[3207.05] Ben Heck: So if you're, um, cause I have this friend and his, well, I think he's out of it now,
[3215.45] Ben Heck: but like his family's like, they have like this large Chevy dealership and you know,
[3220.21] Ben Heck: he'd always be like, Oh, I'll take my car to the dealership to get this whatever done.
[3223.81] Ben Heck: It's like, whoa, wow.
[3224.81] Ben Heck: Big, big, big baller there.
[3226.77] Ben Heck: Um, but I'm just saying normally once your car's out of warranty, because of course it's
[3232.57] Ben Heck: in warranty, who cares?
[3233.57] Ben Heck: You take it to Ford or Chevy or whoever or Tesla, but then once it's out of warranty,
[3238.37] Ben Heck: the average person who doesn't want to blow all their money will just take it to whatever
[3242.63] Ben Heck: shop because it's going to be a lot more reasonable.
[3245.45] Ben Heck: Actually, I had the problem.
[3246.45] Ben Heck: Like I had to replace my muff.
[3248.21] Ben Heck: I have a Ford focus wagon, which is maybe 14,010.
[3252.61] Ben Heck: So it's not like a rolling computer, thankfully.
[3255.49] Ben Heck: Um, but, uh, the muffler had a hole in it, right?
[3258.97] Ben Heck: So it was like, and I'm like, Oh, I'll just replace the muffler.
[3262.21] Ben Heck: I'll get replaced like nope from the engine all the way to the tailpipe.
[3267.41] Ben Heck: One piece.
[3268.41] Tony: No way.
[3269.41] Tony: Mm-hmm.
[3270.41] Tony: What?
[3271.41] Tony: So you're buying a catalytic converter, correct?
[3274.97] Tony: Everything all one piece.
[3276.69] Ben Heck: Yeah.
[3277.69] Frank: Well, the thing is that kind of makes, kind of makes sense from a cost point of view for
[3282.13] Frank: the company, because every different way that you split up and assembly, you've got to
[3288.09] Frank: have another SKU and you've got to have more warehousing and you've got to have more logistics
[3291.89] Frank: to do that.
[3292.89] Frank: If there is somewhere a, a factory that just assembles those things together and they just
[3297.49] Frank: buy that whole thing from them, then why would they sell the individual parts?
[3301.89] Ben Heck: Well, exactly.
[3302.89] Ben Heck: It makes sense for the factory, but you know, as like, let's say I was like super poor, right?
[3308.61] Ben Heck: So something like a hundred dollar US dollar, a hundred dollar muffler, I don't even know
[3312.93] Ben Heck: what they cost, but when I was a teenager, you know, we had cars and we would, you know,
[3318.01] Ben Heck: you'd go out there with a hacksaw and you'd saw off the muffler and then you'd buy the
[3321.05] Ben Heck: pipe fix, you know, the connected, then he's put the muffler in place.
[3324.41] Ben Heck: Then you put a bunch of coat hangers around it.
[3326.25] Ben Heck: You know, I'm just saying like no, well, my point is I don't, honestly, I don't know how
[3335.05] Ben Heck: much a muffler costs nowadays.
[3336.33] Ben Heck: It's probably gone up, but I don't, let's say it's a hundred bucks versus I think this
[3341.05] Ben Heck: cost me 600 just for the part.
[3343.65] Ben Heck: It's a pretty big difference.
[3344.65] Ben Heck: I mean, he used it.
[3345.65] Ben Heck: Yeah.
[3346.65] Ben Heck: Yeah.
[3347.65] Ben Heck: You're right.
[3348.65] Ben Heck: He used to be pipe, flex pipe, Cadillac converter pipe.
[3350.57] Ben Heck: Yeah.
[3351.57] Ben Heck: But the thing, same thing.
[3352.57] Ben Heck: Oh, look, you've got to put a clamp there.
[3354.89] Ben Heck: Clamp there.
[3355.89] Ben Heck: Oh, that adds up.
[3357.85] Ben Heck: One piece done.
[3358.85] Tony: Yeah.
[3359.85] Tony: Again, it's like the sprues.
[3360.85] Tony: The shipping of the one giant piece.
[3363.77] Tony: Yeah.
[3364.77] Tony: You know, you've got to then hire a large shipping container and you've got to fit surely
[3370.09] Tony: you can put them smaller into Lego and you can sell different, like only a certain truck
[3379.25] Tony: can then deliver that extra long because essentially you're delivering a pipe that's
[3384.33] Tony: the length of a truck.
[3386.49] Ben Heck: You know, I don't know if this is, this probably isn't super proprietary so I can talk about
[3391.01] Ben Heck: it.
[3392.01] Ben Heck: You guys probably know that I do stuff with pinball manufacturer, right?
[3395.09] Tony: Yeah.
[3396.09] Tony: I've got a bit of a dicey one regards Microsoft and I'll mention a name and if you just shake
[3403.13] Tony: your head, I'll move on.
[3404.53] Ben Heck: Oh, I was just going to bring up something like from the pinball stuff that we're working
[3408.41] Ben Heck: on.
[3409.41] Ben Heck: Yeah.
[3410.41] Ben Heck: So yeah, like what I did, like this week I've been finishing up firmware on the firmware
[3415.77] Ben Heck: and I got, I got to admit we're going to have a closed source because the last time we did
[3420.09] Ben Heck: one it actually got stolen by a company in China.
[3424.49] Ben Heck: That's a big part of it.
[3425.49] Ben Heck: Like intellectual property theft because I talked about, talked to Lewis about this too.
[3430.17] Ben Heck: You've got your chip, whether it's controlling a drone, an airbag, a pacemaker, you put the
[3435.41] Ben Heck: software onto it and you know, you can just go onto it and read the software off.
[3440.57] Ben Heck: Like that Nintendo Game & Watch, I think I have one here someplace.
[3443.77] Tony: Yeah.
[3444.77] Tony: Didn't you say like decompiling or something?
[3446.77] Tony: Disassembly.
[3447.77] Tony: Yeah.
[3448.77] Tony: Disassembling.
[3449.77] Ben Heck: Oh yeah.
[3450.77] Ben Heck: Here it is.
[3451.77] Ben Heck: Here it is.
[3452.77] Ben Heck: Yeah.
[3453.77] Ben Heck: So Nintendo released this little guy like last Christmas or.
[3456.25] Tony: Got Nintendo written on it, Ben.
[3457.65] Tony: That means you're not allowed to touch it.
[3459.81] Ben Heck: Yep.
[3460.81] Ben Heck: But it's, all it is, it's an STM32 microcontroller.
[3465.25] Ben Heck: There's nothing special.
[3466.25] Ben Heck: You can, you can, you can buy this microcontroller anywhere, right?
[3469.33] Ben Heck: But what Nintendo, what you can do with the microcontroller is you can say, even though
[3472.65] Ben Heck: there's the port to read it, which they left the port.
[3477.13] Ben Heck: See they had the pins out.
[3478.13] Ben Heck: So I just made a little adapter, right?
[3480.41] Ben Heck: But they, you know, anyone can read it.
[3482.97] Ben Heck: So what you can do as a manufacturer is you can actually set lock bits or even suicide
[3488.09] Ben Heck: bits.
[3489.09] Ben Heck: So saying, okay, if you try to read this chip, you won't get any data back.
[3493.17] Ben Heck: It'll be blank.
[3494.43] Ben Heck: Or if you try to read the chip, it'll erase itself.
[3497.27] Ben Heck: Like they, that's a feature pretty much in every little microcontroller and whether or
[3501.63] Ben Heck: not a company enables it basically is just how big of a douche they are.
[3505.47] Ben Heck: So in Nintendo's case, you couldn't read the code, but you could read the contents of the
[3511.95] Ben Heck: Ram and they thought that would stop hackers.
[3514.77] Ben Heck: Of course it didn't.
[3516.07] Ben Heck: So hackers just injected code into the Ram to create a buffer overflow and, and unlock
[3520.51] Ben Heck: the chip.
[3521.63] Ben Heck: But then Nintendo went after their YouTube channel, like struck down their videos with
[3524.99] Ben Heck: copyright strikes because they're like, Oh, you're it's again, that's just an off the
[3529.75] Ben Heck: shelf microcontroller.
[3530.75] Ben Heck: It's like, I don't know, seven bucks.
[3533.55] Ben Heck: It's actually a pretty good ship.
[3535.39] Ben Heck: But then they're like, Oh, but you affected our proprietary code.
[3539.57] Ben Heck: So even though, yeah, you would say as a consumer, I bought this, I should have the right to
[3543.47] Ben Heck: reprogram that ship.
[3544.63] Ben Heck: In this case, Nintendo doesn't think you have the right to do that.
[3548.83] Tony: It really upset me that you cut the poor, the wrong side on that bit of plastic like
[3554.27] Tony: that really.
[3555.27] Ben Heck: Oh, in my video, what I made up for it, why I tried to make it look like it wasn't a mistake,
[3560.55] Ben Heck: but it was.
[3561.55] Ben Heck: But oh, how about an SD card slot?
[3563.87] Tony: Okay, you are forgiven.
[3565.87] Tony: I just want to know you're right.
[3567.51] Ben Heck: I lucked out that that lined up because I yeah, that was so stupid on my part.
[3571.59] Ben Heck: So stupid.
[3572.59] Frank: I want to know if it's an SDM32 chip that we would recognize.
[3577.19] Frank: Is it an F7, F4, F3, F1, H7?
[3582.03] Ben Heck: Let me get my reading glasses on.
[3584.79] Ben Heck: Yeah, I have bifocals now.
[3587.55] Ben Heck: Oh, no.
[3588.55] Ben Heck: Yeah.
[3589.55] Frank: Could we flash B to flight to it?
[3591.15] Frank: That is the question.
[3592.15] Ben Heck: Well, just hold on.
[3593.99] Ben Heck: It's an, it's an ARM Cortex M7.
[3595.91] Ben Heck: I know that it is an STM32H7.
[3599.75] Ben Heck: H7, there we go.
[3602.39] Ben Heck: Yeah.
[3604.39] Tony: Will it fly?
[3606.91] Tony: It's like Braille's skateboard all over again.
[3609.39] Frank: Next project for Dominic Clifton.
[3610.71] Ben Heck: Oh, wait, I have a few more numbers here.
[3613.79] Ben Heck: H7BDVBT6.
[3614.79] Ben Heck: Okay.
[3615.79] Ben Heck: Yeah.
[3616.79] Tony: Nothing to any of us.
[3619.79] Frank: It will mean something to Mr. So I should have just stopped at H7, huh?
[3627.51] Tony: So we've got, in latest news to make it slightly relevant, we've got a buddy, our friend Jack
[3636.47] Tony: from DV3L, spells devil, but like in leet speak.
[3642.27] Tony: I get it.
[3643.27] Tony: Yeah.
[3644.27] Tony: They've managed to get USB video out from the goggles and now they're worrying about,
[3655.51] Tony: there's a whole talk about it on our buddy Joshua Bardwell's podcast, but maybe something
[3662.83] Tony: Ben might want to check out because they speak about it in a lot more detail than we do.
[3666.63] Ben Heck: So they opened up a feature of the microcontroller that wasn't already there, like USB.
[3671.03] Frank: Yeah.
[3672.03] Frank: So this is on the DJI goggles, the HD goggles.
[3675.43] Frank: So they previously actually released a little web app that would unlock something on your
[3680.35] Frank: DJI goggles.
[3681.35] Frank: I can't remember what it was.
[3682.35] Tony: The geocode, the geolock.
[3684.59] Frank: Oh, yeah.
[3686.23] Frank: And now they've just done another one that will also allow you to get HDMI out of your
[3690.95] Frank: goggles so that you could put it on a screen and display it with someone else watching.
[3694.75] Tony: Yeah.
[3695.75] Tony: Which was an original feature that was there from this expensive separate controller that
[3703.31] Tony: had HDMI out.
[3706.03] Tony: And I think it was a buffer overflow that like opens a port for the USB.
[3713.03] Tony: And as long as you have that code there that opens that port, then it would initiate sending
[3720.11] Tony: the video over.
[3721.35] Tony: And now everyone's like sat there waiting for DJI to release a firmware update where
[3728.07] Tony: the drone has to have a firmware update.
[3730.43] Tony: And then it will then be incompatible with your goggles.
[3733.19] Tony: And then you have to update your goggles.
[3734.71] Tony: And then that feature will no longer work.
[3737.91] Ben Heck: Yeah, that's kind of.
[3739.67] Ben Heck: Well, I mean, yeah, going back to this thing, it has a USB-C port just for charging.
[3744.07] Ben Heck: I mean, this chip probably has at least one USB controller on it, if not two.
[3748.99] Ben Heck: So there's no reason they couldn't have it hooked up to the USB port, but they didn't
[3752.71] Ben Heck: because of course, that would make it even easier for hackers.
[3755.91] Ben Heck: But yeah, so yeah, there's I mean, usually any of those chips like that chip probably
[3760.31] Ben Heck: has a CAN bus too.
[3761.31] Ben Heck: So that chip could talk to a car if it wanted to.
[3763.31] Ben Heck: And there's tons of stuff in these chips.
[3766.23] Ben Heck: Yeah, I mean, a lot it comes down to firmware most of the time and firmware is intellectual
[3770.63] Ben Heck: property.
[3771.15] Ben Heck: And as I as I told Lewis, it's like, well, because I was like, he's like, you sound like
[3776.19] Ben Heck: a right to repair opponent.
[3777.59] Ben Heck: And I'm like, well, I'm just saying this is what they would say in response.
[3780.63] Ben Heck: You know, it's like it's like being a lawyer, you know, a good lawyer doesn't ask a question
[3785.63] Ben Heck: that they don't already know the answer to wherever you on the night of June 5th.
[3789.95] Ben Heck: Well, you know that you're saying it for the jury to hear same thing.
[3794.39] Ben Heck: I was like, OK, well, regarding a chip, this is what, you know, corporate lobbyists would
[3799.27] Ben Heck: say, oh, you know, our intellectual property is the software.
[3802.55] Ben Heck: In that case, you say, OK, all right, I don't want your software, but please sell me the
[3806.35] Ben Heck: chip with the software on it.
[3807.79] Ben Heck: You know, those kind of compromises, I think, is probably what we need to look at.
[3812.87] Frank: Yeah, I think, you know, personally, I feel like a fair balance would be that if you're
[3818.23] Frank: not selling the actual thing, the part that I want, at least let me know how to get it
[3827.19] Frank: or make it or, you know, find another way of doing it.
[3831.07] Frank: And I think that's that's a reasonable thing.
[3832.79] Frank: And in the same way that, you know, car manufacturers, you know, for 10 years after the last one,
[3839.43] Frank: they have to make sure that there's the spare parts available for that car.
[3845.63] Frank: You know, if I don't think we could do that for, you know, the GoPro because having all
[3851.19] Frank: those little bits is going to work.
[3852.83] Frank: But maybe you could say, you know, at least make sure that the drawing is available for
[3858.23] Frank: that tiny little bit of spring steel or whatever it was.
[3862.07] Tony: Well, when you're done and you can't be asked for that anymore, then put it out and then
[3867.51] Tony: be like, hey, you know, like you can buy the repair manual for us for like, you know, three
[3874.51] Tony: dollars and we're going to release schematics to this third party that we we trust.
[3880.39] Tony: If you guys want to make parts for longer as it's possible, then do that, you know,
[3884.83] Tony: because you're not going to make it anymore.
[3886.15] Tony: Everyone else is going to going to make money from it and therefore kind of closing that
[3891.39] Tony: ecosystem by kind of being like, yeah, we'll recycle it for you.
[3895.11] Tony: And then they get all their gold back that you've paid for.
[3899.03] Ben Heck: Yeah, by recycle, that means it ends up in a pile in the street in China and eventually
[3906.03] Ben Heck: it might.
[3907.03] Ben Heck: Yeah, it's a lot of it.
[3908.95] Ben Heck: It's it's very nimby, you know, not in my backyard like, oh, yeah, it's completely.
[3913.35] Ben Heck: This is completely responsible e recycling because we're piling it up in a different
[3917.83] Ben Heck: country or a poorer country.
[3919.83] Ben Heck: Yeah.
[3920.83] Ben Heck: I was going to say, I forgot what I was going to say regarding code or something.
[3925.67] Ben Heck: Oh, oh, yes.
[3928.71] Ben Heck: Part of the problem might be like, let's say, OK, here is our design from five years ago.
[3932.79] Ben Heck: Right.
[3933.79] Ben Heck: And here's our new design.
[3934.79] Ben Heck: So we want you to buy the new design.
[3935.79] Ben Heck: But if you want to repair the thing from five years ago, and as you suggest, oh, OK, well,
[3940.07] Ben Heck: let's make those schematics available, etc, etc.
[3942.83] Ben Heck: The thing is, the design from five years ago isn't probably going to be radically different
[3946.19] Ben Heck: from what they have now.
[3947.63] Ben Heck: So a chat.
[3948.63] Ben Heck: Well, I say challenge.
[3949.75] Ben Heck: One reason they might be against is like, OK, we'll figure designs from five years ago.
[3953.43] Ben Heck: You can basically make a clone and then you could actually improve that clone and then
[3958.55] Ben Heck: be kind of up to the level of what we're selling now.
[3961.59] Ben Heck: And that's another issue because a lot of it there is a lot of intellectual property
[3965.75] Ben Heck: theft happening in the well, most of it's in China.
[3969.43] Ben Heck: Like they'll build they'll build yours during the day and theirs at night.
[3972.51] Ben Heck: And a lot of companies are really gun shy about that.
[3975.59] Ben Heck: It's I don't think I don't think it's so much that they care about the hobby.
[3978.67] Ben Heck: Well, they're not.
[3979.67] Ben Heck: It's not like all these hobbyists are going to do this for profit.
[3982.11] Ben Heck: They're worried about people.
[3983.31] Ben Heck: Oh, they've got the firmware.
[3984.35] Ben Heck: Now they can flash a thousand bootlegs.
[3987.31] Ben Heck: I think that's what they're concerned about.
[3988.91] Ben Heck: It is a valid concern, but there needs to be a good balance where it also is good for
[3993.55] Ben Heck: the consumer.
[3994.55] Ben Heck: And as I again, as I told Lewis, if you're going out from a political level, you got
[3998.99] Ben Heck: to push the green, the environmental, because all the politicians, they they have to be
[4003.99] Ben Heck: green, even like Republicans or Tories or whatever you have over there, they have to
[4007.51] Ben Heck: be like pro green.
[4008.55] Ben Heck: You know, they can't go like dump oil in their backyard stuff.
[4010.99] Ben Heck: Right. So if these politicians, they don't know, most don't know anything about
[4015.31] Ben Heck: electronics. I don't know about you guys, but our politicians are freaking ancient.
[4020.15] Ben Heck: But if you say green, like it's not green to throw this phone away like, oh, green as
[4025.55] Ben Heck: an elected official, I have to be green.
[4027.59] Ben Heck: OK, well, I can work with that angle.
[4030.03] Ben Heck: So I think that's kind of the way to do it because it isn't it's, you know, throwing
[4033.47] Ben Heck: things away is is not green because it's who knows where that's going to end up.
[4038.59] Ben Heck: And like the thing is, yeah, you have in order to make, you know, like you talk about
[4042.47] Ben Heck: getting the gold, like retrieving the gold from something is a very laborious process.
[4047.03] Ben Heck: Some people do it just for fun.
[4048.75] Ben Heck: But in order to actually retrieve anything of value, you have to kick that product, get
[4053.95] Ben Heck: to kick, kick, kick, kick, kick it down the economic scale of places to the point where
[4058.79] Ben Heck: yeah, you have like little African kids that happens.
[4062.27] Ben Heck: I have like kids digging through piles of junk looking for the shinies.
[4065.83] Ben Heck: I mean, but it actually happens.
[4069.39] Tony: Yeah, burning the the isolation off a off wires like balling up, burning off and then
[4076.27] Tony: selling the copper.
[4077.31] Ben Heck: Which is also not environmentally friendly because you're you're incinerating.
[4081.27] Ben Heck: Yeah, you're and you're not in center even like, oh, at least when you burn coal, it's for
[4085.31] Ben Heck: energy like they're just burning wires to get rid of it.
[4088.39] Ben Heck: Yeah. So I think if you can make the idea, the ideally you keep that thing out of the
[4092.87] Ben Heck: trash for as long as possible.
[4095.15] Ben Heck: I mean, yes, eventually everything breaks, you know, except for maybe like, you know, some
[4099.59] Ben Heck: old engines or Toyota.
[4102.63] Ben Heck: But but but the other thing is my I know you're in drones, but like I think so like if you
[4108.83] Ben Heck: talk about that you waste, even though this doesn't weigh bugger all, I bet this is probably
[4112.47] Ben Heck: like 80% of the waste, at least for electronic devices.
[4116.11] Ben Heck: The company's got super addicted to selling you a $600 slab of glass that you can break by
[4121.39] Ben Heck: looking at it wrong, right?
[4123.31] Ben Heck: So I you can buy a $500 TV, it'll last you 10 years, this will last you maybe two, right?
[4130.55] Ben Heck: So this breaking is good for the bottom line and not being repairable.
[4135.67] Ben Heck: And that's, that's kind of a wasteful addiction that all these companies have.
[4140.31] Ben Heck: And there's a reason why Apple's a trillion dollar company is because yeah, people buy
[4144.71] Ben Heck: $600 things that they can break that easy.
[4147.03] Tony: And I don't know we we remotes done a lot for the repair, you know, damaging off TVs.
[4157.51] Tony: The who?
[4158.11] Ben Heck: Oh, the we remotes.
[4159.51] Frank: Yeah, to be fair, they also did a really good job of basically starting our entire hobby.
[4164.43] Frank: So yeah, the we remotes.
[4168.95] Frank: Yeah, the very kind of the gyroscopes and accelerometers in the early we remotes, or at
[4177.91] Frank: least the nunchucks that came with it were kind of fairly fundamental to the hobby level
[4183.59] Frank: grade of flight controllers.
[4186.07] Ben Heck: They were kind of the way the nunchuck was just an I squared C device.
[4190.63] Ben Heck: It was very easy to know.
[4192.59] Frank: Exactly.
[4193.15] Frank: So even the kind of the very, not the very first, but one of the early flight
[4199.15] Frank: controller software types that is kind of branched off a lot of what we still use was
[4206.19] Frank: called multi-we and so that that's kind of that multi-we phrase is still in the software
[4211.55] Frank: in bits and places, I think.
[4213.67] Ben Heck: It's weird to think about but yeah, the we was what 15 years ago and that was before
[4218.27] Ben Heck: everyone had a phone in their pocket.
[4219.79] Ben Heck: So yeah, at that time, it's kind of interesting, like how like these things all have, you
[4224.71] Ben Heck: know, accelerometers and gyroscopes, but that's not really used a whole lot.
[4228.75] Ben Heck: But back when the we came out, that was all the rage.
[4230.83] Ben Heck: So and that's good because, yeah, like, oh, look, I can interface this nunchuck and that
[4234.87] Ben Heck: helps hobbyists understand things easily.
[4237.71] Ben Heck: And then when you have something popular, like the we, you know, there's a hundred
[4240.35] Ben Heck: million we nunchucks out there.
[4241.83] Ben Heck: So guess what?
[4243.15] Ben Heck: There's going to be a lot of people have access to it and we'll be able to figure it out
[4245.79] Ben Heck: because it's it's common.
[4249.56] Tony: I'm just trying to look for the little DIY KK2 that David made with the separate
[4258.2] Tony: accelerometers that were placed at different angles for the pitch rolling.
[4266.2] Tony: Man, I am.
[4269.16] Curry: Well, I'm interested in what you talk about being with that that little game and watch
[4273.72] Curry: and sort of, you know, hacking it a bit and doing stuff with the firmware.
[4277.24] Curry: Where do you stand on the sort of you buy something?
[4280.92] Curry: And I'm thinking very much sort of the homebrew community with consoles.
[4284.24] Curry: Like if you look at the original Xbox, that was hacked to death and people putting out
[4288.08] Curry: some really nice software on the 360.
[4292.0] Curry: We sort of stand on the fact that like I own this.
[4294.16] Curry: So if I want to sort of hack about with it and try and develop my own firmware for it,
[4298.36] Curry: that should be allowed because it kind of crosses over, you know, things like Sony
[4301.84] Curry: trying to get your property and you sort of developing your own sort of hacks
[4307.04] Curry: to to make it run your own homebrew if you want.
[4309.48] Ben Heck: So you say you say in firmware or software?
[4312.12] Curry: I'm not saying firmware specifically.
[4313.32] Curry: I'm saying people using exploits to run their own code, essentially.
[4318.44] Ben Heck: Well, I will say that we're I mean, I brought up, you know, giant mega corporations a couple of times.
[4325.48] Ben Heck: Microsoft is actually one of the more open ones, which sounds contradictory, but it's
[4330.64] Ben Heck: actually kind of true.
[4332.28] Ben Heck: I know maybe if there's any Linux people here, they're probably grinding their teeth.
[4336.16] Tony: I want to say I want to desperately, desperately say that surely Eric, you know of his second
[4343.96] Tony: name, Eric Lang Green would disagree.
[4349.0] Ben Heck: Well, I think of this because you mentioned game consoles and firmware.
[4355.8] Ben Heck: You can go and buy like you get like the Xbox One or what's the new one called Xbox
[4359.92] Ben Heck: Series X? Stupid name, by the way.
[4362.0] Curry: No one can get one of those.
[4364.12] Ben Heck: Nobody can.
[4365.16] Ben Heck: Yeah. But yeah, actually, like, yeah, the Xbox One or the Xbox One, they're basically
[4370.48] Ben Heck: the same thing once it's upgraded, you can actually go on the App Store on that console
[4375.04] Ben Heck: and you can actually download for free developer mode and it will actually put your console
[4380.12] Ben Heck: into developer mode and you can run you can make your own games and run them.
[4384.2] Ben Heck: And it's actually provided by Microsoft, which is actually really cool.
[4388.28] Ben Heck: So if you wanted to make a homebrew Xbox One game, you can.
[4391.56] Ben Heck: It's completely legal and actually, yeah, sanctioned by the company, whereas Nintendo,
[4396.6] Ben Heck: even though they've got all the cute, you know, Pokemons and whatever, they're like
[4401.36] Ben Heck: just not so friendly.
[4404.56] Tony: Do you know why?
[4407.48] Ben Heck: Oh, wow, that's old school.
[4408.72] Ben Heck: That's an old Arduino Nano, it looks like.
[4413.28] Tony: Yeah, no, yeah.
[4415.28] Tony: Then we made the multi-weeboard with the little chips on there.
[4421.12] Tony: Well, I've got a personal question, though, for you, Ben.
[4423.52] Tony: Do you like, watch and enjoy Big Clive?
[4427.6] Ben Heck: Who's big? Wait, it sounds familiar.
[4430.12] Tony: Can you? What do you mean?
[4431.64] Tony: Who's big? Can you get it off, off, off?
[4435.44] Ben Heck: It's a YouTuber, right?
[4437.36] Tony: Yeah, he's yeah, he's the Scottish guy
[4441.68] Tony: who lives in the Isle of Man, Big Clive.
[4445.16] Ben Heck: I'll have to look at his name sounds familiar.
[4449.08] Ben Heck: I will say, I will say, at least here in the States, we love YouTubers with accents,
[4455.6] Ben Heck: so you've all got an advantage with that.
[4458.48] Ben Heck: Or Australia, also, you're like, you know, like, oh, I'm going to fix this computer,
[4463.84] Ben Heck: you know, something like that.
[4465.32] Ben Heck: Oh, you've got an E.B. blog there.
[4466.96] Tony: Yes, E.B. blog, yes, yes.
[4469.36] Tony: I always love it.
[4469.96] Tony: Well, Adrian's Digital Basement, you must watch him.
[4472.76] Ben Heck: Oh, yes, I do watch his.
[4474.36] Ben Heck: Yes, yes.
[4475.44] Ben Heck: Oh, yeah, yeah, he's British too, right?
[4478.08] Ben Heck: No, man, he's from Canuckistan.
[4480.84] Ben Heck: Oh, I can't keep it straight.
[4482.2] Ben Heck: I think half of YouTube is also actually Canadian.
[4485.0] Ben Heck: A lot of people think I'm Canadian.
[4486.32] Ben Heck: I am. Well, I am in Wisconsin, which is pretty close to Canada.
[4489.08] Tony: Yeah, it's so far over the border.
[4491.8] Ben Heck: Yeah, yeah.
[4492.52] Ben Heck: It's just swim over the world's largest lake and you're there.
[4495.68] Ben Heck: Yeah. Oh, yeah.
[4497.56] Ben Heck: So so I'll have to look up Big Clive.
[4500.28] Ben Heck: You know what? I have to go do some programming after this.
[4502.36] Ben Heck: Maybe I'll put that on my other monitor.
[4504.0] Tony: Yeah, there's two things.
[4505.24] Tony: He does like live podcasts every Saturday called Big Clive Live.
[4509.64] Tony: But his main channel is Big Clive.
[4511.16] Tony: And he does the doobie lamps where, you know, you hack.
[4515.12] Tony: You hack like the LED bulbs and some lower output and they last longer.
[4521.0] Ben Heck: Oh, yeah, I think I have seen that.
[4523.96] Ben Heck: It's like a hands channel with like a wooden bench.
[4526.84] Ben Heck: Yeah, yeah, I think I have seen that.
[4531.68] Ben Heck: Boy, he'll be like, here's a dodgy LED bulb.
[4535.64] Frank: The power shower unit or all those good fun.
[4539.44] Ben Heck: I had I had a couple of light bulb.
[4541.24] Ben Heck: My LED bulbs go out here and and I undid the whatever the lid of the lamp.
[4548.32] Ben Heck: And then I pulled out the bad bulb, you know, LED bulb.
[4550.8] Ben Heck: And there's a crack in the side of it.
[4552.68] Ben Heck: And it's like three year warranty.
[4554.0] Ben Heck: I'm like, oh, that's exactly how long this last.
[4558.16] Ben Heck: I was actually thinking about being like one of those kind of YouTube.
[4561.0] Ben Heck: I was actually going to put it in my lathe and then like
[4564.64] Ben Heck: saw the bob open with my lathe is like stupid YouTube crap.
[4569.12] Ben Heck: Yeah. Oh, man.
[4570.56] Ben Heck: Did you guys have any other questions for me?
[4572.88] Tony: Or any besides the big we're we're so over any.
[4578.04] Tony: Curry, have you got we can we can chat to you after this anyway.
[4581.12] Tony: So you can stay on.
[4582.8] Ben Heck: Oh, I actually I got to go program as soon as we're done here.
[4585.48] Ben Heck: I got I got I got a current sensing.
[4588.04] Ben Heck: I'm working on a current ADC, current sensing sampler.
[4592.48] Ben Heck: Right. I really messed it up.
[4594.44] Ben Heck: It was so stupid.
[4595.48] Ben Heck: I changed it was an arm.
[4596.88] Ben Heck: So you had to set up all the clocks.
[4598.84] Ben Heck: I changed the boot clocks for more better boot efficiency.
[4602.84] Ben Heck: But I forgot that I had the wrong clock hooked up to the ADC,
[4606.56] Ben Heck: the analogical converter.
[4608.24] Ben Heck: So I was driving the ADC with a 32 kilohertz clock with a 32 divider on it.
[4614.52] Ben Heck: So my ADC sample rate went from like 300,000 hertz to 1000
[4621.6] Ben Heck: because I screwed it up.
[4623.04] Ben Heck: So I'm so I'm in the process of fixing it. Yeah.
[4627.84] Tony: Make me labs in the in the comments as well.
[4630.08] Tony: Caroline says, yeah.
[4631.16] Tony: Clive got a he got a VE, you know, Adwina versus evil.
[4635.36] Tony: You know, you got an x-ray hammer for getting into into components.
[4641.16] Tony: Or as we call in the automotive percussive instrument.
[4647.64] Tony: Percussive maintenance.
[4648.96] Tony: Yeah. Right.
[4651.8] Tony: If you guys have enjoyed what we've been talking about,
[4654.16] Tony: check out this Rossman.
[4655.8] Tony: Check out Rich Rebuilds.
[4658.48] Tony: Check out Ben, Ben's channel.
[4661.24] Tony: What are you, Ben Hacking?
[4663.84] Ben Heck: It's on YouTube.
[4665.24] Ben Heck: I just took my old channel that I had even before I did the show.
[4669.16] Ben Heck: It's Ben Hack Hacks.
[4671.2] Ben Heck: And I make a video every couple of weeks.
[4673.12] Ben Heck: But yeah, no longer on a schedule.
[4675.4] Ben Heck: That was I had enough of that for eight years.
[4677.96] Tony: Yeah. You know, I mean, even just go there for bud content
[4683.12] Tony: and please give that little fluffy boy some some treats for me, please.
[4687.4] Ben Heck: Oh, actually, Lewis's videos is where I learned about greenies,
[4690.84] Ben Heck: which cats do absolutely love.
[4693.6] Tony: Yes. Yes. I got my body onto that as well.
[4697.16] Tony: Um, yeah, definitely.
[4699.8] Tony: And then check out Big Clive.
[4701.6] Tony: And if you agree with Right to Repair and you want to want to help,
[4705.16] Tony: I've donated personally.
[4707.64] Tony: We will paste the link in the description.
[4711.04] Tony: And yeah, so if you can support the movement,
[4717.12] Tony: because I think it's very much going to affect all of us at some point.
[4721.2] Tony: And thanks, Ben, for coming on
[4725.24] Tony: and teaching us about stuff and being a great guest.
[4728.56] Ben Heck: Thank you. And we learned about metric tons.
[4733.0] Tony: Yeah, thanks for having me.
[4734.96] Tony: Thank you.
[4736.96] Tony: Yes, stay in touch with the show.
[4738.56] Tony: And yeah, if you can if you like or put up without your love,
[4743.36] Tony: Big Clive lives, live streams, be walking the park back to this.
[4748.24] Ben Heck: Well, a big live Clive is pretty easy to remember. Yeah.
[4752.0] Tony: Thank you. You've you've been joined by everyone's favorite
[4755.28] Tony: Lord and Master, Andrew Frank. Bye.
[4758.92] Tony: My little Tony.
[4761.04] (Patrons): Hi, Jack's mom.
[4763.8] Tony: Blue Owl, did you learn anything today?
[4766.44] BlueOwl: I did learn tons of things.
[4771.52] Tony: Still a thing of all.
[4773.48] Tony: Yeah, everyone's favorite curry kitten. Goodbye.
[4777.24] Tony: And Ben Heck.
[4779.2] Tony: Next time. And I've been bright until I fly.
[4781.84] Tony: Thank you, guys. Good night.
[4783.56] Tony: Thank you to all our patrons. Bye.
[4786.56] BlueOwl: Telemetry loss.