=== Let's Drone Out — Episode 336 ===
Title: LDO 336 - Chatting With Pawel Spychalski Of iNav
Recorded: 2022-02-03
Hosts: Wayne "CurryKitten" Andrews, Stephen "Belrik" Howell, Jack "Brightontillifly" Nash, Andrew "Frank" Hyams
Guest(s): Paweł "DzikuVx" Spychalski
Total audience: 2,298
Platforms: YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGmtdSy3s1Q); SoundCloud (http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/feeds.soundcloud.com/stream/1210311250-letsdroneout-ldo-336-chatting-with-pawel-spychalski-of-inav.mp3)
=====================================

Subscribe to weekly edited episodes of Let’s Drone Out on your favourite podcatcher
Jkoin our Discord: https://discordapp.com/invite/8hEVqkM
Get our merch from https://letsdroneout.com/shop 
Help support us on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/letsdroneout 
Email us at letsdroneout@gmail.com
Follow us on Facebook: https://fb.com/letsdroneout

#LetsDroneOut #LDO #podcast #drone #mulitrotor #quadcopter #fatshark #impulseRC #ethix #brightontillifly #TeamBlackSheep #FPVUK #BLHeli #lipo #KISSULTRA #KissESC #esc #FlyDuino #JoshuaBardwell #Skitzo #Alien5 #MrSteele #FPVRacing #MiniAirShow #LondonFPV #UKFPV #betaflight #fpvdrones #FPVRacing #MiniQuad #podcast #fpvwing #Apex #inav

[0.0] Jack: Hello and you're listening to what's drawn out and special thank you to our lovely patrons that help donate so that we can pay the editor to remove the swear words and silly things we say massive thank you to Carlos campos.
[17.7] Frank: Sam dama like he dread on with the show.
[53.58] Jack: Hello and welcome back you're listening to the podcast let's drone out tonight you're joined by bell rick steven hello everyone's favorite curry kitten hello everyone's favorite youtube's dead help we're making no money but check out i naff and shove your vtx tables up your asshole pavil speckowski hello.
[84.1] Curry: Yeah, you could write first time how long were you practicing the name.
[88.46] Jack: he's been on the show quite a few times now, hopefully.
[93.26] Paweł: That would be like the fourth time maybe fifth congratulations.
[97.98] Paweł: Thank you very much.
[101.18] Jack: Thank you for not getting cancelled i'm actually you guys can continue the the argument about I believe Stephen hasn't.
[112.34] Stephen: Do you know what i've gotten built his whole thing copter and plane because he was too busy trying to get his success called to fly on a test and desinking the motors.
[123.74] Curry: Yes, Stephen was saying that all servers are bad and it would be much better he could build a much better with the exception of heli servers which cost inordinate amounts of money and therefore not a realistic choice.
[136.98] Curry: All right, one one ninety nine surveys versus your horrible quad flame build if it gets done yeah.
[146.78] Paweł: Good question how do you want to install those motors on this flying wing like i was thinking gold or just.
[153.98] Stephen: Oh right so veto no no no you misunderstood the the image i'm going for is more a quad with a wing attached to it not.
[161.98] Stephen: Not not something as sophisticated as a veto i'll take a quad, for example, and then paper it with a wing attached onto its butt like so and.
[175.18] Stephen: Like this.
[177.18] Paweł: Attached to a veto.
[179.38] Stephen: This is this is more sophisticated than i mean look you've even directed the motors I was just going to literally take it on an on a carbon fiber X so it's rigid and then I thought well when we're going for.
[191.98] Stephen: Fast the wing all like say some battery so well we'll tow a wing and it'll just kind of.
[198.94] Paweł: But the drag drag will be a problem.
[202.94] Stephen: But we'll get lift as well, so you win some you lose some we'll see it was an experiment and like I said I think i've built three quads since and this week I went and ordered.
[213.66] Stephen: A new frame I contacted Mr sub 250 gram and got him to send me his crazy little two inch one s like it looks like a little five inch quad but smaller that's very cute.
[226.94] Stephen: More on that what i'm hearing is a lot of stalling and not a lot of building yeah you're correct yeah and then I got I decided to buy a cheap h seven and spent a long time.
[237.98] Stephen: Talking to beta flight devs about why the h seven doesn't initialize at csc's and what's buying a really cheap h seven actually means.
[247.34] Stephen: i've got a matter one seven, which is wonderful, which I noticed I now supports but makes no claim to support everything else, and the reason is because some of them are really cheap really really cheap and they don't behave themselves.
[261.02] Paweł: But to reach h seven.
[264.18] Stephen: This is a jh a j.
[266.26] Stephen: Oh yeah yeah yeah yeah and it's an aio with 40 amp sc's and an h 743 and on paper looks amazing and practice to out to the four motors really don't want to wake up.
[282.58] Stephen: There's a back there's a back in beta flight 4.3 it's definitely software because i've got it to initialize at least half the time, but I have to enable debug mode which disables the optimizations in beta flight and then it initializes more often than when I don't enable the same which optimizes the code.
[302.66] Paweł: Okay the cheapest soul so yeah there's some there's some problem on the.
[306.9] Paweł: On the unified target for h seven and I think every seven that uses the unified target and it's very new and I think it's got new dma mux the way it handles everything is new with h seven it's so far away from what the f series is it's untrue and funny fact it was working perfectly fine with 4.2.
[332.02] Paweł: It's something that happened between 4.2 and 4.3 I know because the atom asked me to investigate it.
[342.42] Paweł: I've seen the issue for diet no no no I'm not fixing that it's happened somewhere during the last year I'm not fixing that sorry.
[350.34] Stephen: So I'm sure it's going to be amazing when it does fly but for now yeah it's a bench boy so I was just going to say pavles on what's doing I now and stuff.
[361.22] Curry: I know and stuff 4.1 for there's there's a small person just come behind you.
[371.78] Jack: Where's your where's your hired help to drag them out by its leg.
[377.22] Jack: Like the amazing.
[381.14] Paweł: Yeah I know 4.1 it will probably happen in the beginning the first half of the February.
[389.3] Paweł: The risk candidate for that happened like a week ago or something.
[394.66] Paweł: So far nobody reported any problems so we have to assume it's working but it's a minor update nothing pretty super fancy.
[402.9] Paweł: Besides the SD card support for the age sevens some of these of them the new dynamic notches.
[412.5] Paweł: Which are pretty cool and something else some HD zero OSD so people.
[422.02] Paweł: So hopefully some people will be happy as now we have to wait until the DJI releases the canvas mode for their system which will never happen.
[430.74] Stephen: No it would be awesome another 20 years when it's obsolete and someone reverse engineers it that's when it's going to happen.
[437.54] Stephen: That's when we get canvas mode it will never happen.
[441.06] Stephen: So have you have you bought HD zero to get a proper OSD on your digital flight now.
[446.98] Paweł: No I actually moved out from from anything analogous to the analog like even HD zero I have I have a set somewhere over there in this in this in this in this part of my attic but somehow I'm not really convinced about the HD zero.
[463.62] Paweł: So for me it's currently the DJI PD all the way having the flow is nice but the OSD is limited yeah let's be honest the OSD over there just just crap.
[475.86] Paweł: But it works out of the box no need no hassle with everything I put everything go flying and then and it works up to those five few kilometers absolutely no problem so just why not.
[488.58] Paweł: And it was a nice nice reason for me to limit the amount of flying things I have because I never wanted to like to upgrade everything's okay am I flying that no am I flying that no.
[502.42] Paweł: Yeah I've still got a lot of analog builds there's probably a thick coat of dust on them some of those now I'm pretty sure there is no in my case it's mainly the the storage space I have very limited storage space over here so I'm not flying I'm not.
[518.34] Stephen: They're giving this thing away or so since we last spoke you've kind of aggressively changed the numbers on I now if we you're in the twos for ages and then all of a sudden you bravely surged ahead to three and now to four and.
[531.06] Jack: Red kite blue kite.
[535.38] Curry: A big tactic to overtake beta flight on the numbers so I know it's.
[541.78] Paweł: We were shy about releasing the increasing the major version and that was kind of misleading because we were landing with those two point six point one three point zero point one.
[554.58] Paweł: And there is this thing in the programming called the sampler semantic versioning when every time you release the major version.
[563.46] Paweł: You should increase the major version number every time you release the minor you increase the minor and the difference between the major and the minor is that as long as they are compatible it's a minor.
[575.46] Paweł: But since every bigger release we are removing functions adding functions renaming stuff so dips are no longer compatible so those are major releases so okay let's just go it will be just simple because four or five six seven eight by 10 instead of nobody like new why this is to why this is three and so on I think it's for the best no one wants to read the errata you just want to look at the big number yeah exactly.
[602.58] Paweł: Not yet sure about the name somehow there is a lot of resistance on that area but it doesn't hurt anyone so we will see how the name will go excellent so do you have a list of prospective names do you have some kind of crazy algorithm for names no no okay.
[626.56] Paweł: No I was scouting for the name for the next release but so far no oh luck and I'm not sure if the four point one that the one that will release next week probably will you've called them both red kite and then why they both red kite you can't have the two releases with the same name surely that the software police will be around your door.
[648.72] Paweł: Okay I'm convinced I will have to figure out something flying beaver beaver beavers don't fly beaver will be a ground vehicle which is still within the remit of iron half.
[663.76] Stephen: They could fall yeah flying squirrel that's good that's a good name raging sparrow oh this is raging sparrow now that that lends itself to a good logo I think yeah if on the I was able to like a euphemism like you say hey I've got a raging sparrow right now come over here and say hey I've got a
[691.76] Curry: raging sparrow right now come over and see the trousers better raging sparrow than raging quilly you know those amber sound facts can get a bit spicy saucy shall I say what is your shirt curry by the way is it I it's not it's not exciting it says I fit oh no this is this is what happens last year when I did one
[721.6] Jack: hundred workouts on my bollock they sent me a t-shirt one hundred exactly yeah well I did something like a hundred and eighty something by the end of the year wow yeah every second day is nice are you are you still getting the whole like you know Apple Watch and Starbucks are walking and stuff
[748.32] Curry: yeah they changed it though um yes that's that's the we're talking about insurance companies here
[755.92] Curry: like Vitality Health give you benefits for for exercising because that way they don't have to
[762.96] Curry: pay for you to go and have so right medical so if you like tie your watch onto your kid's bike then
[769.04] Curry: that works yeah well you could just hold your watch and shake it about but uh yeah if you get
[773.76] Curry: like x number of points they'll give you a free coffee every week which I haven't claimed for
[778.96] Curry: about two years now because I don't want to go to coffee houses and then it was free cinema tickets
[783.92] Curry: they've worked out well in the last couple of years and uh amazon prime is another one they do
[790.56] Jack: yeah so yeah I still get that one yeah Logie says uh wasn't raging sparrow an 80s punk band
[799.52] Curry: it sounds like it should have been one even if it wasn't
[803.36] Paweł: punk I was never really much into that thing so so no idea uh but if anybody has any other proposals
[810.24] Paweł: for the next item of name just throw them in the air let's you know I didn't know it had a codename
[816.48] Curry: but I think it's a good idea because saying like major versions of something is less exciting than
[824.24] Curry: saying a name of a release especially if it's a memorable one be it red kite or raging sparrow
[832.24] Paweł: I like that carry on well it doesn't hurt anything probably so so why not it's come on
[841.04] Curry: it trips off the tongue easier than I'm running 4.1.6 oh definitely 4.2 4.11
[848.24] Paweł: yeah what's the situation in the UK get gents it's been a bit cold this way I built a plane
[857.76] Curry: just today and it looks like this this is really it's not brushed oh it's precious
[865.28] Curry: that is brushless but it's got it's it's what happens when I raid my spare bits so it's got
[871.76] Curry: that is off like a stack and that's just buried into the phone and that's the camera but this is
[876.88] Curry: to test out um express LRS using PWM I got one of those little uh PWM boards what they come
[886.56] Curry: oh yeah it's a straight thing so it's from happy model and it's the receiver but the receiver
[891.84] Curry: runs a firmware that puts out four channels of full range PWM so if you're not using a flight
[896.64] Curry: control and that's just a very basic directly attached to the servos then that brings so that's
[902.0] Paweł: what I've got yeah yeah yeah I thought that'd be fantastic even making those small boards exactly
[906.56] Paweł: yeah yeah matek does as well yeah yeah yeah so that's that's pretty useful because it's really
[911.2] Paweł: hard recently to find the small receiver that has at least those three chart PWM channels
[916.24] Curry: super irritating oh we got a we got a thing from Caroline I fit like I know
[922.08] Paweł: yeah I feel like I know yeah it's capital A I A not I capital I know today we learn the alphabet
[934.77] Paweł: with Pavel maybe not the best I really idea I don't know why but this week's been a bit
[947.33] Curry: a bit on the windy side I wanted to get out and fly some stuff but windy and my field if
[952.93] Curry: anybody's seen it recently where I've been flying it's still a lake it's it's not been
[957.49] Curry: raining but it's not been drying off either so I'm a bit worried about flying that little plane
[962.69] Curry: because I have to land in a spot this big else it'll just sink into the mud but we'll try what
[969.33] Curry: we can that's not nice over here Stephen you're moving that's good yeah god knows different US
[976.93] Paweł: people over here the weather is abysmal really like abysmal since the basically beginning of
[982.13] Paweł: the November the flying days for me were like three I was probably was only flying three times
[990.85] Paweł: since the beginning of the November it's either cold or it's raining and we have those storms
[997.09] Paweł: or it's cold or it's raining really like a nightmare so I would like to fly I would like
[1003.49] Jack: to go out so cold here right now I went to fly today and it was freezing cold it was horrible
[1011.97] Jack: and windy and everything's wet it's so muddy last week was actually pretty nice because the
[1018.93] Curry: wind died down and it was just cold and you can you can deal with just cold but when you've got
[1024.21] Curry: that wind chill factor as well forget it's just miserable well and also that you go out at four
[1030.85] Stephen: o'clock and think you might go for a fly and it's too dark to fly that's it's not great either
[1035.41] Stephen: you've left it to get special low light cameras to fly it past 330 in the afternoon now
[1041.97] Curry: yeah you need to then again it's it's no good when you go in midday and the sun's just up to
[1046.93] Curry: the perfect height where it's just hitting you in the eyes all the time and you just go squinting
[1052.05] Curry: all the time and then you realize like oh this this camera's not so good for facing the sun as
[1057.57] Curry: it turns out especially if Jack's got the dodgy one what was that camera jack that was misbehaving
[1063.49] Jack: oh rapid fire shall i uh and how old is it and how cheap is that your vtx i guess yeah hang on uh
[1075.01] Jack: i'm using a tramp uh a full full-size tramp and i'm using the fox ear razor
[1083.33] Jack: oh yeah so and hang on i will share my screen there we go it's a bit of a swerve isn't it
[1095.41] Curry: oh yeah for those seconds while the screen does that you feel like i hope i don't crash that was
[1101.89] Curry: a very quick one i've had it where the screen is very slowly moving across and you're like uh oh
[1106.61] Stephen: this is bad which bit do i look at mind you do you see uh this this i think is kind of expected
[1115.01] Stephen: when you're doing a bit of amateur flying i was watching recently uh tommy tabajo i'm not sure how
[1119.81] Stephen: you say umigod right doing his professional video work he lost video over the water and dunked it in
[1128.21] Stephen: like antarctica or something with no gps i know like what yes most people don't fly with them
[1137.17] Curry: especially when they're doing like commercial shoots because it's very rare i suppose they're
[1140.85] Stephen: flying off flying over water and antarctica he was really well prepared he brought like three
[1147.01] Stephen: of everything but he flew no gps in antarctica over water i really don't get those super expensive
[1153.89] Paweł: like video rigs flying better flight and even without gps like come on come on give yourself
[1160.05] Stephen: a fighting chance carry the extra 10 grams of a gps receiver and yes exactly and what's the worst
[1165.65] Paweł: that can happen if it's going to fail safe anyway if you have a cine lift of the 10 grams nobody
[1171.17] Paweł: will really like notice like where like uh i think there is one company that uh is trying currently
[1178.05] Paweł: to put cine lifters and all those heavy cinematic craft with with inaf why is why are
[1184.05] Stephen: people not using inaf have you talked to any of the professionals about that no i i i said like
[1189.01] Paweł: there's one company the okay it's catalyst machine works oh cool yeah they have this series of cine
[1195.81] Paweł: lifters they are just pre-installing with inaf so you know this this thing truly if you have
[1201.97] Paweł: have a fail safe will return to home and land and if you carry a few thousand dollars of the
[1206.45] Paweł: come around this thing it kind of makes sense right i think people labor under the view of kind
[1212.37] Stephen: of what inaf was four years ago or something and i've seen you freestyle inaf like that's
[1218.85] Stephen: not bad footage that doesn't seem to be performing badly at all but people still seem to think it was
[1224.53] Paweł: inaf back in the olden olden days i think it's rather the name i think the name i think the name
[1230.77] Paweł: is the problem uh not the problem uh people assume that it's navigation only and you cannot
[1237.89] Paweł: really like do stuff with this thing and let's be honest betaflight has like majority of the market
[1245.41] Paweł: and the period and nobody is even trying to find if we're going by name it's better flight sounds
[1250.05] Stephen: like it would crash i mean it just it's better right yeah but no um i think it's to some extent
[1258.45] Paweł: it's a lack of knowledge and i don't want to say ignorance but there's something like that
[1267.65] Paweł: maybe maybe something like that okay betaflight flies great on my racer so i will also use this
[1275.41] Paweł: because because it's there um okay it's a free word so why not but i really find this really
[1281.81] Curry: super super interesting there was a suggestion that tommy's chords was using kiss which would
[1287.09] Curry: be something completely different but i guess one of the things about them because i know he uses
[1292.29] Curry: very small chords as well tries to keep it compact and inaf does kind of insist on using a compass
[1299.01] Curry: with a gps and normally that means you've got a stalk somewhere trying to get it away from
[1303.65] Stephen: the magnet oh you know where we're going now paul why can't inaf just use a gps why do i need a
[1310.77] Jack: magnetometer why do you think you're drunk and drunk and fly in any direction yes yeah but you
[1317.65] Curry: can work out what way it's going by examining gps where it was and where it is now and then
[1323.57] Paweł: you can determine its direction yeah but it has to be moving it has to be moving so the best you
[1331.57] Curry: can have i'm not suggesting we could have like inaf full featured on just a gps because that
[1338.37] Curry: wouldn't be possible but what about i'll have light there's a new name for you but why i have
[1343.97] Paweł: light if you've just got a gps no let let me show you something because this this is this is this
[1349.01] Paweł: is interesting all right it's a four incher small right do you have anywhere uh gps must
[1361.31] Paweł: you've got it sticking out the back then have you yes just like any other gps with the
[1367.79] Paweł: beta flight quad exactly the same nothing special runs full inaf absolutely no problem
[1375.63] Paweł: return to whole position hold everything land doesn't your vtx getting the wire out
[1383.79] Paweł: oh because that's not the only problem is always saying oh magnetometer put the magnetometer near
[1389.79] Stephen: other components it doesn't work blah blah blah no no no no no no no you cannot put magnetometer
[1395.63] Paweł: close to a source of magnetic field and what is the source of the magnetic field motors metals
[1405.71] Paweł: but metal actually can be calibrated eliminated using the the calibration and the high current
[1416.51] Paweł: wires and that's all everything else is basically safe and true of the time for the five seven
[1423.71] Paweł: inches is you have to keep the magnetometer around five centimeters two inches from those
[1429.31] Paweł: elements but if you have something smaller which less current so the magnetic fields are weaker
[1435.07] Stephen: you can go much closer this thing so long range four inch with 1404 motors or something small
[1441.55] Paweł: that's uh how many yeah exactly this is 1404 and still even with this i was able to put the
[1450.35] Paweł: magnetometer almost five centimeters from each motor very similar range to the to the wires and
[1457.63] Paweł: the closest thing that there is is the vista which is like two and a half centimeters one inch and
[1464.51] Paweł: it's working perfectly absolutely no problem so i know i know that people would like to see
[1472.91] Paweł: enough running everything without the uh magnetometer because it's simpler but
[1478.75] Paweł: wide it's not better it's only simpler it's a simplification of the solution it's not
[1483.55] Curry: all right so what we need then is a new video series from pavil called how to run i nav on
[1490.43] Curry: a small build without a stupid looking stalk coming out the top of your club or a catchier title up to
[1496.43] Stephen: you no no i think it's a catch type uh i help i run beta flight but i don't want to lose my quad
[1502.83] Curry: would be the name that's what rescue mode is for that's that's like oh let's let's have some
[1508.67] Curry: fun and see if the access set missile comes back to hit me oh the hit me the hit me part is the best
[1513.95] Paweł: one not really the fact that better flight just shut down smarter and that drops it scares me
[1519.39] Stephen: really scares me you better hope you're at least 100 meters away because if you're not
[1526.22] Jack: yeah yeah oh yeah that's the point isn't it there's like a minimum radius like yeah yeah unless you're
[1531.82] Curry: yeah by default it's 200 meters if you if you try and engage it within there it's it's it goes
[1537.26] Paweł: back to drop then it goes yeah drop and talking about i nav um you can also run i nav without the
[1548.98] Paweł: gps and it's work perfectly fine and some people even say that it on seven inches work much better
[1555.78] Paweł: than the beta flight on defaults no tuning at all but it's fine it's fine uh like i mentioned
[1563.62] Paweł: beta flight is the the most popular firmware and that's fine i i fly what i build i fly what i
[1576.51] Paweł: develop uh and be honest majority of the features i added to the i nav was because a i like developing
[1585.79] Paweł: i like programming b it gives me fun and see i like this thing to share and if people want to join
[1593.87] Paweł: this experience fantastic better enough no stable so oh i know it will be a stable flight
[1605.78] Curry: that's a good name gamma just moved on delta nav delta sound from eta yeah delta
[1613.3] Paweł: alpha beta gamma omicron oh oh my god
[1622.34] Paweł: no um i was thinking about flying forking uh but that why why so all right this this is something
[1631.22] Curry: i need to check out i will go and install i nav on a few quads i will do one without um a gps and
[1639.78] Curry: see how it flies on defaults because we all like not having to tune and then i will attempt to
[1645.86] Curry: install a proper gps compass but without the city stalk on the back making sure i'm about
[1652.66] Curry: five centimeters away see if it's possible that sounds like an experiment we can install it without
[1656.98] Stephen: the navigation features though right yes on a quad set up comparing to beta flight will be like
[1664.34] Paweł: there will be this extra step of you will have to calibrate the accelerometer because you will
[1669.54] Paweł: not take why is that what's with the rotation um the thing is um the accelerometers have three
[1680.74] Paweł: axes and nobody says that up and down on each axis is the same so we know that the the gravity
[1691.7] Paweł: is 1g so what we do is that we measure how much on each axis uh accelerometer okay reads up and
[1700.98] Paweł: down uh try to zero because nobody says if the accelerometer reports zero it's really zero so we
[1708.42] Paweł: try to measure that and also to get of the error of if the 1g is 3d 1g if you do not use navigation
[1717.94] Paweł: this is excessive i i agree on 100 this is excessive procedure and not required but since
[1723.22] Paweł: you might engage navigation any possible moment it's kind of needed but why because accelerometer
[1730.02] Paweł: is used to compute the position to assist in position computation so because when you move left
[1738.42] Paweł: that means that the acceleration on the axis will be measured and if you know the acceleration
[1744.34] Paweł: and period of time you can compute how much uh the quad basically moved in that direction
[1751.06] Paweł: and because gps is updated every with the five maybe 10 hertz depending on what you have there
[1759.06] Paweł: it's kind of useful to know where quad is comparing to the previous measurement
[1764.5] Paweł: even between the gps updates and this is why we basically calibrate all six axes you care
[1770.02] Stephen: a lot more about it than beta flight which is just like is it 90 degrees or 180 degrees round
[1775.54] Stephen: is it upside down done move on okay so it's proper calibration yes exactly and well this
[1783.06] Paweł: is the biggest difference to be honest between beta flight and inaf right now from the setup
[1788.66] Paweł: perspective and inaf has left less targets okay fair to that but from the setup perspective really
[1797.3] Curry: that's basically all what i was going to say is i will give this to beta flight when i was testing
[1804.5] Curry: out with my awful f450 trying to get it flying in order to install open hd on it whilst it was
[1812.02] Curry: completely unfliable when i was trying to fly in fpv and i was like oh this is horrendous
[1816.9] Curry: i can't land this i would just flick it into return to home and inaf would do a much better
[1821.78] Paweł: job than me and bring it back quite safely no because most probably the squad will be also
[1826.74] Curry: unfliable with inaf it was fine inaf managed to bring it down really it landed but it was
[1837.46] Curry: it got back it flew the quad and got back a lot better than i managed to do with it
[1844.1] Paweł: no the thing with those old quads is that comparing to what we have right now and to
[1850.34] Paweł: what the defaults are tuned right now is that a uh the motors were much much much much much
[1859.78] Paweł: much weaker and much less torquey comparing to what we have right now it's not really
[1864.74] Paweł: and they were smaller as well even yes yes exactly and this means that there was just much
[1870.1] Paweł: less torque it's not really thrust to weight ratio it's of how much torque the motor can deliver
[1877.54] Paweł: so that it can start to spin up or slow down the propeller faster so can do the stabilization
[1884.82] Paweł: faster this is one and b is that those frames are super flexible that means if the motor will just
[1892.5] Paweł: hit this frequency of the resonant of the frame everything immediately starts to vibrate and
[1898.18] Paweł: usually this is in the frequencies that even right now with those modern tools we say okay this is how
[1905.86] Paweł: fast the the pilot can move the sticks so it's not even you cannot even filter that out
[1911.54] Paweł: and they really like flying horribly horribly horribly horribly comparing to the modern
[1917.54] Stephen: standards and you cannot think that i think what what you fail to account for is the massive
[1922.42] Stephen: amount of sentimentality and nostalgia that might be present in certain elements of the fbv community
[1927.62] Curry: yes there is certainly an element of the rose tinted glasses when going back to an old platform
[1934.26] Curry: and like this is going to work great because it always used to fly great
[1937.3] Stephen: nah this is horrible actually it always used to be horrible oh look at what jack's got
[1941.46] Stephen: the blast from the past you know what's a really great idea if you had a circuit board as part of
[1947.94] Stephen: your frame thereby saving weight and ensuring on the first crash you broke all of your electronics
[1955.86] Paweł: i have a zetimer 250 somewhere there exactly with the same pdp just one just one just one
[1967.3] Jack: i can't wait for this to show out on carbon fiber do you still have your plywood quad
[1973.38] Paweł: yes i do i'm not using that it's only the frame and it's only used the as the christmas ornament
[1981.3] Paweł: but yeah the plywood source one is there and over there is the wooden ten incher
[1988.26] Jack: that one flies amazing really yeah wait a second well wood wood wood absorbs resonance you know it's
[1998.66] Curry: you know it's amazing i'm guessing it's good components it just raises the line is wood
[2003.54] Paweł: need to brace it a lot it's wood wow uh it's better than kurdie's wood plywood uh three
[2010.58] Paweł: millimeter plywood is a center center arms are really spruce i know that so i know it
[2021.86] Paweł: but i built this frame like in 2016 for a project i had highlighted and last year i just
[2029.3] Paweł: referred to that but comparing to what how it was flying like those five years previously
[2034.74] Paweł: the difference are the motors those are not the not the motors we are using uh back then those are
[2041.62] Paweł: 35 36 they have so much torque that this thing just screams in the air and it's super stable
[2049.54] Stephen: and super fun you can filter out any vibration the plywood's not a problem absorbs it cool if
[2055.38] Jack: anything that's kind of why wood was really good back in the olden days it used to hold the gummy
[2064.5] Stephen: nest of him yeah you know do you have to store it in a brace like an old tennis racket like in one
[2071.54] Paweł: of those clamped frames to stop it warping no if anything goes wrong i can just replace the arms
[2079.3] Stephen: i just remember the old tennis racket so you'd have like a clamp frame you put around
[2083.86] Jack: yeah but they're under tension though that's the whole you know it's the because of the string
[2090.42] Jack: and the changes of temperature i think i think that's what the the peak deal of it is this
[2096.5] Frank: episode was recorded in front of a live online audience downloaded and edited to make sense when
[2101.46] Frank: it played audio only sensors to please the itunes people hosted on the internet forwarded through
[2106.42] Frank: to your podcast provider downloaded playing on your device and is now playing in your ears
[2111.46] Frank: all thanks to our patreons consider joining them and you'll also get other online benefits
[2116.98] Frank: find out more at patreon.com forward slash let's drone out i'm not looking forward to
[2123.22] Jack: playing with the micro min osd it's going to be the worst they were pretty good back in the day
[2131.06] Curry: the the only problem i had was actually soldering one up because it was quite an awkward shape but
[2136.26] Paweł: yours is on the pcb itself that should be fine no no no no no it's not uh you have to put pins
[2143.22] Paweł: the angle uh peeps i thought you said yours was on the pcb no it only has a place for the pcb
[2149.62] Paweł: uh just just a layout for that it takes some practice to do it i've i've still got my one
[2156.26] Curry: up on my old two what was it the uh the zmr 250 i've still got that that's running clean flight
[2163.78] Curry: something with the um the minim in there that was like magic at the time you could go in and
[2172.02] Curry: you could change the pits my goodness crazy time without a screwdriver no screwdriver necessary
[2178.58] Stephen: i'm gonna be showing us last time the board with this with the uh potentiometers and a screwdriver
[2183.22] Curry: this this year pebble for my 10 year anniversary flying fpv i'm gonna go back and i'm gonna build
[2188.26] Curry: a quad using the oldest components i have around including a kk one board with um old motors just
[2197.86] Curry: just so i can use a screwdriver to adjust my gains that's the fun thing about it don't encourage him
[2203.86] Stephen: it's gonna happen it's gonna happen it's gonna fly great do it well i look forward to seeing
[2210.9] Stephen: your neighbors take it down off their roof um it's gonna be entertaining yes we don't do hovers
[2216.98] Paweł: in the gardens of experimental builds we go far away to 50 last year also with the oldest
[2223.22] Paweł: components i could find uh the only not really like ancient stuff were the motors because the
[2229.86] Paweł: motors were immaculate bottoms 22 or five so like you know slightly better than usually what was
[2237.86] Paweł: the great stuff but no this doesn't like great no i i don't think the expectation is it to fly great
[2246.58] Curry: but i thought it'd be fun to take it out and crash it a bit yes see how long it lasts the fun factor
[2251.14] Paweł: will be pretty nice and the nostalgia factor definitely and jack's got his to fly i don't
[2256.58] Stephen: have any old builds i was saying the other day that i used to have one of those rubbish
[2260.5] Stephen: ar drones that was all polystyrene and wi-fi controls oh god yeah that's about as old as i
[2266.9] Curry: go i wasn't building my own back then i'm afraid to say there we go look we've got another sundown fpv
[2272.58] Curry: steel flies wooden tricopter from flight test with kk not just me i know that i fly money it's still
[2278.66] Stephen: flying like i don't play as the end of the bits in five years wow i know i need to find another
[2285.7] Jack: kk board because my one's my one's like dead unfortunately so i i want to like repair mine
[2297.3] Jack: like reflow the the chips off it and you know reflash it and get it get it all back and and
[2304.9] Jack: working you're so lucky why don't you just build a version of the original kk from scratch jack
[2310.5] Jack: well it's like it all has to be authentic sorry yeah who wants to go first curry i said as you're
[2320.78] Curry: so into this building thing why don't you go back to the original plans and build your own kk board
[2325.82] Curry: or rip apart a wee controller and build an original multi-way oh man i don't where do you
[2332.3] Curry: think all the code came from it's multi-way go back to the origins man don't don't tempt me
[2338.14] Jack: the only thing you know then go for it this board doesn't accept multi-way except nice
[2346.86] Paweł: uh cc3d and sp3 it will accept anything you want if you're sold you have a sold ring i like three
[2354.3] Curry: yeah make it happen you've got a sold ring i only got a hammer anything's possible
[2361.02] Curry: bloody multi-way a multi-way is one of the few boards i don't think i tried
[2368.86] Jack: they were amazing but like they went ahead of the time no good for a h frame you gotta have like an x
[2376.38] Jack: shape frame and it will only run pwm as well funny if i thought whatever you fly today is
[2383.58] Paweł: multi-way yeah msp including some of the names everything that we fly right now comes from the
[2390.94] Paweł: multi-way it's exactly the same mixer like in the multi-way only simplified if it is what happened
[2399.34] Jack: to all the like speaking of old do you remember do you remember the the different controllers there
[2406.14] Jack: was wasn't there was a float there was um harry kuku or something harakiri yeah harakiri yeah
[2416.22] Paweł: yeah yeah uh those those were all forks of the base flight
[2423.98] Paweł: and the only controller that took traction that fork from the base flight was the clean flight
[2432.94] Paweł: so basically what happened even maybe you remember for in the like 2015 16 you were able to choose
[2441.58] Paweł: the pad controller including the harakiri for example but at one point like okay no screw it
[2448.22] Paweł: no we are not playing that there's only one pad controller good and that's all but the all the
[2454.7] Paweł: other projects including harakiri they just died because the majority of the open source projects
[2460.7] Paweł: just died and uh that's was there a valid reason to have more than one pad controller
[2468.38] Jack: no no actually no no there is not a reason to to have it uh auto tune i'm glad that is no longer
[2477.1] Jack: a thing that thing was deadly i remember it was just like that shot right up flipped upside down
[2483.66] Jack: and then sucked itself to the floor like and then just like literally landed in front of me
[2490.86] Jack: nearly killing me i took that was horrendous but was it tuned afterwards no of course no no no no
[2498.78] Paweł: i took a look at the because i'm i'm working for the autotune for inaf that was working when i was
[2504.78] Paweł: able to fly before the weather just broke i took a look at for example what this autotune from
[2510.22] Paweł: harakiri was doing and like really this thing feels like what but why how how is that even
[2517.02] Paweł: possible so yeah interesting but uh the ardu pilot has something like an autotune maybe not
[2525.18] Paweł: surely tuning exactly the same pids else we are tuning but it has and it's in the documentation
[2530.46] Paweł: and you can use it if you want to and people don't say it's falling down from the sky so
[2536.46] Jack: maybe there is something to it but like you know you you see arcy test fly and you know
[2544.94] Jack: the stuff that he gets to fly with that is incredible you know yeah effect and everything
[2552.38] Paweł: and that funny fact uh better flight can do exactly the same
[2557.74] Paweł: i enough can do exactly the same that really honestly i know i know it uh because it's only
[2564.22] Paweł: a mixer no matter what's going on the stabilization itself it's always uh your pit your pitch and roll
[2572.54] Paweł: uh only three accesses if you tune the stabilization at no matter what you are flying
[2577.34] Paweł: driving or doing or even submarine it's roll pitch and yaw and then you only have the
[2584.86] Paweł: pitch and yaw and then you only have to translate the the output of the three accesses to actuators
[2593.74] Paweł: motors servos whatever you have over there and if you can set up a mixer for what you are flying
[2601.66] Paweł: then you're basically done um yes ardu pilot in this in this area is slightly better because
[2609.5] Paweł: it has support for a better support like for example you can have a submarine and some
[2618.62] Paweł: how it's called drifting cars so yeah they have extra stuff but doing this this kind of stuff
[2625.34] Paweł: he's doing it's it's doable even with better flight maybe not the navigation part but the
[2629.82] Paweł: stabilization uh for sure but by the way i i was uh talking to that guy like two or three years ago
[2641.9] Paweł: about one of his projects that he never really like took off again it was i think the flying stick
[2649.74] Paweł: with the motors at the bottom and not the top he was testing something back then it was flying
[2655.02] Paweł: with better flight he wanted to go with inaf because then inaf could uh invert the rotation
[2662.06] Paweł: but in there like went somewhere but most probably it's doable if you only want to you have to want to
[2671.02] Stephen: with with ardu pilot it seems like it can do a lot but it feels like it's kind of a self-selecting
[2675.9] Stephen: audience of really smart people because it's really hard to get ardu pilot running to start with
[2681.82] Paweł: uh yeah the user interface is
[2686.3] Paweł: abysmal challenging yeah no abysmal but that's that's it's just abysmal uh even in the
[2693.58] Curry: even in the best of daniel's videos i still see it flashing up on the mission planner compass is
[2699.18] Curry: crazy and stuff which is pretty much my experience with ardu pilot where i sit there waiting for the
[2705.58] Curry: compass to say it's good enough to ever fly which happened about one in five times for me
[2711.66] Curry: and he still gets he still gets weird things he's doing like a 30k like thing on his little boat and
[2718.94] Curry: then suddenly something goes wrong and it off goes off the shore and he has to reset it and redo it
[2722.78] Curry: and he's like oh it seems okay now that was weird so it's not it's not perfect by any means no no
[2728.38] Paweł: nothing is perfect uh absolutely and let's remember that all of those
[2735.58] Paweł: every single piece of the software we are using maybe if not counting the the software that drives
[2741.1] Paweł: the vt access and the radio links some of the radio links and digital fpv is open source done
[2750.06] Paweł: by people who just like to do it after probably their full day of work and so on and so on and
[2756.54] Paweł: so on so it's you cannot really expect that the the software will be flawless and definitely
[2763.26] Stephen: the projects are all in software terms pretty recent projects even the mature ones that we
[2769.1] Paweł: think of as being the pilot is i think 2009 that's uh what we fly started i think 2012
[2781.66] Paweł: this is more or less when multi-v was created uh but then the multi-v had the reset with the
[2788.38] Paweł: base flight so let's say 2014 so eight years more or less eight years and major no no none of the
[2795.5] Paweł: developers that started working on that i'm not talking about autopilot i'm talking about the
[2800.46] Paweł: multi-v derivatives so i know peta flight uh in move light and none of the developers that started
[2807.82] Paweł: working on that is still doing that absolutely just compared to kind of other crucial systems
[2817.07] Stephen: like i don't know operating systems and like userland software it's uh it's used by quite a
[2824.35] Stephen: and used and developed by quite a small number of people and it's still a relatively recent project
[2829.23] Stephen: like the amount of hours put into development and running it are quite quite small so it's
[2834.03] Paweł: impressive what it can do we had operating systems had a chance of being funded by someone
[2842.08] Paweł: flight controllers now nobody's had flight controllers yeah yeah think about all the
[2846.32] Curry: major companies that started using linux and then started putting huge amounts of money and resources
[2851.04] Paweł: into developing it as well no money that's that's one it's not not that bad because somehow linux
[2860.0] Paweł: has enough of the money to like to pay the developers and have some stuff and this is not
[2864.8] Paweł: tragical what's really tragical are the authors of the node js libraries everybody uses those
[2874.64] Paweł: libraries on the million dollar companies nobody gives tiny rats cents of like crap to the people
[2885.52] Paweł: that are the foundation of every website you see in the internet and then you have someone like
[2892.64] Stephen: the guy who wanted to remove some like left trim function and like took down half of the world's
[2898.16] Paweł: like node js dependencies that's exactly that's that's really something to to be
[2906.16] Stephen: to look that's what happens when you don't pay your developers folks
[2911.6] Paweł: well yeah if you don't but are you supposed to pay them or not because if you're supposed to
[2917.52] Jack: pay them and you don't pay them they leave and never come back um robin asks what gyro is the
[2926.88] Stephen: good gyro now bm 270 mpu 6000 cost your votes yep 6000 i reckon um recently it doesn't really that
[2938.88] Paweł: much matter the filtering since those days when oh 6500 is much better than 6000 no 6000 is much
[2948.0] Paweł: better than 6500 there is tremendous progress in in filters and i me i stopped caring i absolutely
[2960.8] Paweł: stopped caring about what kind of the gyro i have on my flight controller if this works that means
[2966.48] Stephen: it works period people seem to not really understand what the gyros were doing internally
[2973.12] Stephen: seemed to be half the battle like there was a low pass that the mpu 6000 was running which its
[2978.48] Stephen: competitors didn't run and people didn't realize that was happening and so they're like oh this
[2982.48] Stephen: is a noisy gyro but actually they've got like hardware programmable filters and one of them was
[2988.16] Stephen: set by the manufacturer to do a low pass and the other one wasn't so
[2992.0] Paweł: uh the difference the difference main difference between the 6500 and 6000 was that uh because of
[3003.12] Paweł: the different structure of the those MEMS sensor which is like crazy technology by the way if you
[3008.48] Paweł: ever had some time free read how those gyros are really built incredible stuff um because it was
[3015.84] Paweł: capable of higher rate sampling uh the resonant frequency of that gyro was much lower and it was
[3025.04] Paweł: much noisier so we're like six years ago when the proper filtering on the quads was basically
[3032.48] Paweł: unexistent if you had this noisier gyro it really was generating much more noise but then let's be
[3039.04] Paweł: honest nobody hard amounts flight controller anymore this is not really happening every
[3043.84] Paweł: flight controller you buy has those grommets and this like takes majority of the vibrations
[3049.12] Stephen: away and this is fine and what about the Bosch so there was the 6000 and 6500 but these days
[3056.32] Stephen: those are effectively all end of life anyway the entire 6000 series yeah but those icms are
[3062.72] Paweł: internally the same those icms are are basically internally the same uh and even now now you can
[3070.4] Paweł: buy a brand new flight controllers with the MPU 6000 but they say yeah that you can buy brand new
[3077.04] Stephen: but they seem to be built using stockpiles of chips because no one's making the MPU 6000 so
[3082.96] Stephen: they're sitting on a pile of however many thousand chips but what happens when the pile is gone
[3088.08] Paweł: uh we have those new icms i don't remember like how what what they are called the four two two
[3094.56] Paweł: six bmi 270 i think uh no bmi 270 is completely different stuff it's a different one as a gyro
[3103.04] Paweł: completely different one uh but for example radix brain fpv radix 2 is using this gyro
[3111.52] Paweł: there is mamba 87 with the bmi 270 i have not used it i have i have one over here somewhere
[3121.12] Paweł: in my drawer uh but i never flew with it and the brain brain fpv radix they say it's such an
[3128.72] Paweł: amazing gyro so maybe it is such an amazing gyro hard to tell but it comes a religious war doesn't
[3134.48] Stephen: it like no the site really has any evidence but everyone is completely convinced yeah something
[3140.8] Paweł: like that but no reality is that there are no bad gyros on the market nowadays in terms of the
[3149.44] Paweł: 99 of the pilots that are out there there are like faulty gyros but there are no bad gyros right
[3158.24] Paweł: now they work and but there's some there's something there's no bad dry gyros but there might be bad
[3165.55] Paweł: gyro drivers in some software uh no i'm talking that you have might have a faulty one that it's
[3171.63] Stephen: just like one of the accesses i was i was saying maybe the developers haven't gotten used to the
[3176.43] Paweł: new models that might no no no no no the the drivers for those stuff is relatively simple
[3183.31] Paweł: there's nothing really that that much i can break um i was onto something but i forgot sorry it's
[3191.79] Jack: like the lux board it was the bad placement of gyros that was terrible if you remember the the
[3200.59] Paweł: luminaire lux boards the question is from where they took the stockpile of the mps nobody knows
[3211.31] Paweł: nobody knows how it always goes but this is exactly very similar to the situation we have
[3216.51] Paweł: the magnetometers the hmc 5883 the most popular magnetometer is not produced for years because
[3227.23] Paweł: honey will just really like stopped producing them i think even before the fpv really started
[3233.87] Paweł: and uh four years ago uh every single gps that claim that has the hmc 5883
[3244.27] Paweł: had a chinese not even a cloud because a close address it's working it's a knockoff that was
[3252.67] Paweł: not even working and right now what we have for example vmc 5883 qmc 583 and so on
[3265.15] Paweł: they are just completely new hardware that is somehow compatible with the old amc and takes
[3273.15] Paweł: the name but really like internally is a completely different stuff almost all the magnetometers right
[3279.15] Paweł: now are 5883 with only three different letters in the beginning nobody knows why
[3288.83] Jack: sorry i'm just fielding questions on where tony is and everything in the chat
[3295.55] Curry: i don't know what's steven drinking or chewing sorry my my tipple of choice is a glass of bourbon
[3302.19] Stephen: with with a lot of maraschino cherries in it and that's what i was just finishing all the cherries
[3306.43] Stephen: at the bottom yeah what's your poison it's tasty boys drink yeah like the little cherries
[3315.31] Stephen: that come in a jar in in syrup are very nice luxardo other glass yeah what are you
[3322.35] Jack: fair enough oh what what have you been up to lately regards is there any like new development
[3330.75] Jack: or are you like being flying anything particular what have you been enjoying yourself with
[3336.67] Curry: a signal lifter x8 signal lifter nice oh we saw the great big uh great big camera you put on it
[3344.99] Paweł: that looks expensive with aluminium arms yes aluminium arms exactly because aluminium is super
[3352.03] Paweł: cheap by the way it has not flew with the camera on it yet because of the weather outside but yeah
[3358.11] Paweł: it's it's prepared to take the take the this thing on board hopefully everything will survive
[3367.15] Paweł: high risk high risk yeah okay no you've done a flight with a brick on it yet to make sure it
[3372.67] Paweł: handles the weight fine it should be fine it's super stable in the air without anything on top
[3379.63] Paweł: and this thing really has so much trust ready to be used when needed i i lowered the throttle scale
[3389.47] Paweł: to like 60 percent and it's still on 60 percent is fully capable of doing the power loops and stuff
[3396.11] Paweł: so really like an incredible machine uh so i really don't expect there will be much problems
[3403.07] Stephen: with covering something what's the kind of power and flight time because you get these weird um
[3407.63] Stephen: compromises with octos where you've got the x8 right you don't quite get double the thrust
[3413.63] Paweł: no i know uh no idea i have not measured because this thing was in the air only like two or three
[3418.51] Paweł: times because of the weather uh i will answer the question about the headset in a moment by the way
[3426.11] Paweł: uh but i think the useful payload for this thing is like two kilos uh because i expect that it's
[3434.67] Paweł: like weights below two kilos the thrust would be around 10 kilos so let's say two kilos are useful
[3441.63] Paweł: and the flight time excluding the battery or including battery including the battery
[3446.51] Paweł: including the battery uh but without the camera the big camera with camera will be close to two
[3453.39] Paweł: and a half but still two kilos of the of the usable payload flight time no idea yet uh i
[3460.51] Paweł: kind of if i if i when i checked the footage uh then there was something like eight minutes
[3467.79] Paweł: of the fpv footage from that with like cruising with the 50 kilometers per hour
[3473.15] Paweł: so let's say uh maybe i 12 minutes of hover maybe slightly less maybe slightly more i will
[3480.19] Paweł: have to check when i will have the opportunity that should be should should be fine and the
[3485.47] Paweł: headset is the still serious arctica five i think very good headphones i have two of those
[3496.29] Curry: so when the weather sorry jack no so when the weather improves is that going to be the main
[3503.57] Curry: project to fly and are you gonna film anything special or is there any other projects coming
[3509.01] Curry: up that you want to do this year or oh i do interesting oh i do um i don't know if anybody
[3514.93] Paweł: remembers but last year i did this the motion ah yeah the the fake dgo controller yeah yeah
[3522.29] Paweł: exactly i'm working on a better version without the cable that connects you to your radio it will
[3528.37] Paweł: be wireless we've slightly changed and i think the joystick is broken again okay uh and i'm doing a
[3539.65] Paweł: glider little glider with the a tail between motor a tail and no idea when i will finish that
[3548.93] Jack: thing but i'm doing this thing so we will see have you um have you recovered from like
[3557.09] Jack: earlier on in the years you were saying about youtube's you know dying and the views and that
[3564.37] Paweł: you've gone there yes and no yes and no um the november december were really like
[3572.93] Paweł: nightmare in terms of views and i i think that kari can confirm that no it's not looking great
[3580.93] Curry: in terms of views it's all bad everything yes exactly it's bad i can i can winch further by
[3586.29] Curry: being a reviewer i can say that any affiliate sales are almost non-existent for me at the moment
[3591.25] Paweł: i removed even the earliest links from my videos they have given nothing wow nothing works why to
[3597.01] Paweł: have them i just like to they're all gone um my channel is right now let's say recovering but
[3605.01] Paweł: i not only like suffered from the less interest of the of the viewers less views in general in
[3612.69] Paweł: our niche but also somewhere around september i removed the top 10 of my best videos because
[3620.05] Paweł: they were not rc or fpv related and they moved them to a completely different channel so one day
[3625.57] Paweł: i lost like 25 percent of the views like that no more uh i i checked the stats for the january
[3635.65] Paweł: and the january was like last roughly the same as half a year ago uh and there's like growth
[3643.89] Paweł: comparing to the december november uh but this is probably because i started making shorts
[3653.57] Stephen: and guess what a lot more output output come from you there's a lot more kind of catchy
[3658.29] Paweł: catchy thumbnails and stuff coming i'm not yeah yeah that's that that also and that's also because
[3664.69] Paweł: if you don't have a catchy thumbnail nobody will watch your videos no matter what you do like you
[3669.09] Stephen: have to have the space like how many times did you practice do you get like your wife to tell you
[3677.33] Jack: can we can we have more more no can we can we have the face again okay perfect we use that
[3685.09] Paweł: yeah no but this is this is the reality if you don't have the catchy thumbnail nobody will click
[3689.97] Paweł: on your video um i'm not sure if my thumbnails are that much better because the youtube shows
[3697.57] Paweł: how clickable your thumbnails are but i'm not really like comparing everything but let's say
[3702.53] Paweł: there is a growth in the like slowly slowly slowly but i i really do wonder how all this
[3708.37] Paweł: the shorts will will end up because right now for example in my my case the shorts are like
[3715.17] Paweł: 10 percent of the views of course the watch time is on exist and then there's no monetization of
[3720.93] Paweł: the shorts and so on and so on and so on and i wonder on the longer run how those shorts which
[3726.61] Paweł: are super simple to shoot to be honest you only have to have an idea of something or some footage
[3732.61] Paweł: fpv shoot like like do a quick mont almost zero editing five five minutes and uh you put it there
[3740.69] Paweł: and you have a views constantly you have views and people are slowly slowly slowly subscribing
[3746.77] Paweł: i wonder how this on the longer run will convert to a new user base no idea but this is like
[3754.61] Stephen: fishing with the shorts you're like fishing yes yes yes yes see i've i've been very much anti-shorts
[3761.17] Curry: but now powers powers are saying like oh people are coming quietly do i do i start casting my rods
[3768.05] Curry: you know it could go downhill we'll all end up on tiktok doing dances before we know it
[3772.13] Paweł: oh yeah curry's yeah yeah yeah that's what we want next oh man
[3777.01] Paweł: i'm not doing dances no i think curry you should try it because like i said it's relatively cheap
[3784.85] Paweł: if you have some kind of the any footage like like cut it in like 15 seconds throw it and we know
[3791.57] Paweł: that youtube likes to suggest materials of the creators you previously watched
[3799.57] Paweł: so if a person will like see your short for two times
[3803.73] Paweł: then maybe they will it will start suggesting your other videos that this is how i'm like like
[3811.01] Paweł: trying to rationalize this thing maybe i don't know i'm experimenting i'm checking
[3816.21] Paweł: kudos yeah we're asking you for any dance classes next time yeah i was taking those classes
[3823.57] Jack: get your yeah get your daughter respect curry to to tiktok dance
[3830.61] Jack: um can you imagine like let's try now no sure we got like one minute to interview
[3834.77] Jack: papo hey papo what's new 40.0 done
[3840.21] Paweł: raging sparrow yeah i know just write that down by the way i have to write that down
[3845.57] Paweł: because i will forget about the raging sparrow yeah you see we already we already decided it's
[3852.69] Paweł: it's a name it's a catchy name okay raging sparrow
[3857.25] Curry: caroline brings up a good point all the things i've seen on shorts is like a vertical video
[3861.41] Curry: literally they're trying to be tiktok do you have to film it in portrait mode because that
[3865.81] Paweł: offends me greatly can you have shorts have to be in vertical i'm pretty sure you can tell how old
[3873.89] Stephen: someone is by whether vertical video offends them or not there's like a cutoff i'm and if
[3878.53] Stephen: it offends you you're officially old well that means you're very old well i am very old but
[3884.21] Stephen: and that means i'm slightly offended i'm quite old and you're very offended it means you're older
[3889.73] Jack: than i am the trouble is he he grew up with crt four by three and now he's like 16 by nine and
[3896.45] Jack: he's all like got just got over that and now he's like vertical video ladies gentlemen i
[3903.33] Paweł: i hated and i still hate vertical video i think it's not how the video should be consumed
[3912.29] Paweł: if and only if if you have a vertical screen in front of your face but i'm catching myself
[3920.85] Paweł: that i'm consuming more of the video on my smartphone comparing to what i'm consuming
[3927.89] Paweł: of the video materials in front of my pc well on the couch like
[3934.69] Paweł: like you know like saying something uh and this is i hate vertical video but if i want to have
[3945.25] Paweł: viewers new viewers i have to take compromises and one of those compromises is i'm from time
[3952.69] Paweł: to time recording a vertical short which is a 100% short only to be consumed on the smartphone
[3960.45] Paweł: this video i'm not even sure that youtube is very much promoting vertical videos on desktop
[3967.01] Paweł: i doubt i honestly doubt i almost never see anything in my in my home screen on the youtube
[3973.01] Curry: only for those people like that it it you're just one step away from tiktok dancing we warn you and
[3979.97] Curry: i think caroline has an excellent comment that made me laugh which says i'm 60 but my wrist still
[3984.61] Curry: works yes you can still do that turn the time the correct way for doing it i know because no but on
[3990.05] Paweł: this on this on this area the smartphone is just nicer because okay now i'm like stooping brain
[3996.45] Paweł: freezing brain fart like i can oh something interesting i will watch it like that same
[4003.17] Paweł: i can in theory do the same with the lcd i have over here but it's not really the same
[4008.77] Jack: all right no worries right we we've come up to our our mark thank you guys you've been listening
[4014.45] Jack: to let a drone out and um enjoying a wonderful wonderful show thank you to all our patreons
[4025.33] Jack: thank you to everyone well caroline who donated during the show thank you to everyone who showed
[4031.73] Jack: up and uh all your lovely comments in the chat um tonight you've been joined by everyone's
[4038.37] Jack: favorite curry kitten good night uh everyone's shiny video stuff steven thank you everyone
[4046.37] Jack: everyone's favorite raging sparrow havel and i've been bright until i fly thank you very much
[4055.01] Jack: tune in next week we've got sync fbv uh the week after we've got painless 360 it'll be
[4061.97] Jack: interesting to see whether he gets on board with the uh vertical video shorts whether he can dance
[4070.21] Jack: even as a big dance as well as i don't like it i can't dance
[4075.65] Paweł: uh anyway uh thank you guys and good night thank you very much it was a pleasure like always