=== Let's Drone Out — Episode 349 === Title: LDO 349 - With Special Guests Thomas & Paul Bitmatta from BMSWEB/BMSRacing Recorded: 2022-05-05 Hosts: Jack "Brightontillifly" Nash, Stephen "Belrik" Howell, Wayne "CurryKitten" Andrews, Tony "TheTonstar1" Marchant, Andrew "Frank" Hyams Guest(s): Paul Bitmatta, Thomas Bitmatta Total audience: 2,257 Platforms: YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JI6u8Xx-UsI); SoundCloud (http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/feeds.soundcloud.com/stream/1263903322-letsdroneout-ldo-349-with-special-guests-thomas-paul-bitmatta-from-bmswebbmsracing.mp3) ===================================== Check out BMSWEB on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bmsweb/ Let's drone out is; Jack - https://www.youtube.com/user/brightontillifly Stephen - https://www.youtube.com/user/ShinyVideoStuff Tony - https://www.youtube.com/user/TheTonstar1 CurryKitten - https://www.youtube.com/currykitten Koel - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqkF5Al06Bs_TtnqQqADMTg #letsdroneout #LDO #BMSWEB #BMSRACING #ThomasBitmatta #FPVRacing #podcast #drone #mulitrotor #quadcopter #fatshark #impulseRC #ethix #brightontillifly #TeamBlackSheep #FPVUK #BLHeli #lipo #KISSULTRA #KissESC #esc #FlyDuino #JoshuaBardwell #Skitzo #Alien5 #MrSteele #MiniAirShow #LondonFPV #UKFPV #betaflight #fpvdrones #MiniQuad #podcast #fpvwing [0.0] Jack: Hello and you're listening to Let's Drone Out and special thank you to our lovely patrons that help donate [7.48] Jack: so that we could pay the editor to remove the swear words and silly things we say [12.56] Jack: Massive thank you to [14.56] Jack: Carlos Campos [16.32] Frank: Art Faulkner [17.76] Frank: Sam Dahmer [19.44] Frank: On with the show [20.64] Thomas: Let's Drone Out now [51.66] Jack: Hello and welcome back to Let's Drone Out [56.14] Jack: Tonight, we are joined by everyone's favourite curry kitten [60.46] Jack: Hello [61.98] Jack: The man that should only have a moustache, Stephen [65.34] Jack: Hello [66.06] Jack: Leave it out [66.62] Jack: My darling wife, Tony [69.1] Jack: For sure [70.22] Jack: From across the pond [71.66] Jack: Like, well, the other side of the world where if you dug [75.66] Jack: drilled a hole straight through the earth, we've got Paul [80.46] Jack: from BMX and Webb [82.06] Paul: Hey, hello guys [83.74] Jack: And we have got BMS Thomas [89.34] Jack: G'day [91.34] Jack: So, how are you doing guys? [92.94] Jack: We have not had you on for years [96.06] Jack: And for that whole time, there's been like the end of the world [101.1] Jack: We've had a plague [103.18] Jack: Now we've got a war [105.82] Jack: I don't even think you can fly over Russia to get to us [108.54] Jack: You're gonna have to go the other way around [110.7] Paul: Yes, we look at a flight radar and there's like this big, like [114.7] Paul: hole in the sky where aircrafts just fly all the way around it [117.74] Paul: It's amazing, isn't it? [119.18] Jack: Oh, man [121.9] Paul: I just think the reality of this last couple of years has been mind blowing [124.94] Paul: Like, it's, you know [126.7] Tony: It's like a telescope thing, didn't they? [129.74] Tony: In Switzerland, the hydroscope or whatever it's called [131.98] Tony: Oh, look at that [133.1] Curry: The pattern collider [134.94] Curry: The collider scope, I like that [137.58] Curry: Yes, it's like Tony [139.5] Curry: Tony, look at the particles [141.34] Stephen: Tony, I'm glad they're looking into based on raw facts [143.98] Stephen: Not misinterpretations [145.1] Tony: I've done that often and everything changed [146.62] Jack: I'm telling you, it's that [149.34] Jack: So, I have noticed you guys on Instagram [154.54] Jack: And I got reminded that you guys exist [159.26] Jack: Thomas has won absolutely every race known to man [164.3] Jack: They've changed DHL to your name [169.5] Jack: People don't even show up [171.26] Jack: I mean, the stick movement is unreal [175.58] Jack: Just full deflection [178.3] Jack: Sideways around date posts and all sorts [183.58] Jack: Has been incredible [185.02] Tony: We're still watching [186.14] Tony: Thank you, thank you so much [187.98] Curry: I always like the fact that the quad builds are very neat as well [192.3] Curry: They're always very, just like, you know [195.34] Curry: Like loads of racing cars are always bashed up and stuff [198.06] Curry: When I see pictures of your ones [199.74] Curry: And you keep doing the little pose [201.5] Curry: Sort of ready to go, don't you? [203.1] Curry: They always look very sleek and lovely [205.5] Tony: You don't crash this morning [207.34] Tony: Yeah, it just like slides around [210.86] Thomas: I wish I didn't crash [212.06] Thomas: I crashed a bit yesterday [213.42] Thomas: But we made it, you're okay [216.06] Paul: Thomas is a bit, is a very little bit, isn't it, Tom? [219.66] Paul: You probably won't admit to that, will you? [221.82] Thomas: That's too much, too much [222.86] Paul: Like, we tried a thing [224.62] Paul: Was it the last video we released, the one on the Foxia quad, was it? [228.86] Paul: Oh, that was the last video we put out [230.22] Paul: No, it was another video we put out on Betaflight [232.3] Paul: And the extra tune for it [233.82] Paul: But we had this idea where Thomas was doing a build video on this Foxia quad [241.58] Paul: And we did that [242.22] Paul: And we did a test flight with it [243.98] Paul: And I suggested that he actually race it [246.54] Paul: And I thought it's going to be really good as far as the video goes [249.1] Paul: Because what I envisaged happening was Thomas would go out with this race quad [253.18] Paul: And actually race it at a proper race meet [255.26] Paul: And he would struggle with it [256.94] Paul: And it was going to make for a more interesting video [259.42] Paul: In that, you know what I mean, he loses a few heats [261.42] Paul: And eventually comes back and wins, you know what I mean? [263.58] Paul: Just something different [266.14] Paul: He raced it two weekends ago [268.94] Paul: We made the video [270.06] Paul: But you pretty much won all the heats, did you, Tom? [273.26] Thomas: I mean, yeah, I got there eventually [274.86] Thomas: That was all the thing [275.82] Paul: I expected more of a story to it, you know what I mean? [277.58] Paul: Adapting to a new quad and the struggles with it and all that sort of stuff [280.62] Paul: And it didn't really happen [283.9] Tony: Next time, Thomas, it needs to be done with a Cinequilt [287.18] Tony: Cinequilt [289.1] Thomas: That'd be handy, that'd be cool [290.54] Jack: Yeah, I think what you should do is [294.22] Jack: I'm going to butcher his name [295.58] Jack: But do you remember Kenichi? [299.42] Jack: Is it Shinara? [301.34] Jack: You know, the guy who invented drifting [303.98] Jack: And Thomas should be racing with like rubber gloves [307.9] Jack: Big thick welding gloves on [310.06] Jack: And like, you know, like he's got to hold the controller like the other way around [315.98] Jack: And he's got to race like that [318.46] Thomas: Oh my gosh, dude, that's a Halle pilot [321.82] Thomas: I believe from Dubai [325.34] Thomas: And literally, look at his Instagram videos [327.66] Thomas: He's like relaxing [329.34] Thomas: Like just chilling like he's on a sofa or something [331.98] Thomas: Just using the controller or whatever [333.18] Thomas: Just flying this 3D Halle [334.38] Thomas: Making it do all kinds of crazy 3D Halle madness [338.3] Thomas: And it's actually so sick [339.66] Thomas: I want to be able to do that one day [341.18] Thomas: It just literally doesn't matter where [343.98] Stephen: Do you see Lin Chan's line of sight stuff around at Bardwell's house? [348.06] Stephen: He was just doing a little bit of line of sight flying on his race [352.14] Thomas: I haven't seen that video [354.86] Thomas: But I did build a line of sight quad back in 2018 [359.34] Thomas: When I was at DL1 [362.14] Thomas: I got Min Chan to actually fly my line of sight quad [364.22] Thomas: Because my line of sight's like, okay [366.06] Thomas: It's enough to test quads and make sure they work [368.38] Thomas: But it's not like actual aerobatics that are pretty [372.22] Thomas: So but then Min Chan did his Min Chan thing [374.86] Thomas: You know, it was pretty sick [376.3] Thomas: I loved it [377.34] Thomas: Oh yeah, quite cool, man [379.1] Tony: I've seen him doing it above a crowd before [381.9] Tony: That was quite rare [383.5] Tony: Yeah, he don't even flew in a... [384.78] Tony: It was like in a theater or something [386.46] Tony: He was doing it [387.42] Tony: I've seen... [388.38] Tony: Definitely was him flying above quite a lot of people [392.3] Jack: Yeah [392.7] Jack: Obviously not a nice guy [395.1] Jack: It's like it's okay, I'm 20 mistakes high, it's fine [398.7] Jack: Yeah, I suppose, yeah, for him [400.62] Jack: Maybe your dad should build like a jig to hang you by your feet [405.42] Jack: That might be quite good [408.54] Tony: Well, I think, yeah, I often miss cine quads [413.26] Tony: Or, yeah, hanging upside down [415.66] Curry: Or perhaps we can make a competition [417.98] Curry: Can you build a quad that Thomas can't win with? [421.58] Curry: It has to be able to fly [422.78] Curry: But that's it, yeah [423.9] Curry: It's like we can break out the old 3S ZMR250s with the GM fan 5030s [430.62] Curry: That are super flexible [431.74] Curry: See what you can do with that [433.02] Jack: Are you still running the JS1? [436.06] Thomas: Yes, I am [437.02] Thomas: So that's the frame that we designed [439.42] Thomas: I was back in 2019 [440.62] Thomas: Did we do a show with you guys in 2019? [444.56] Thomas: I don't know [446.08] Thomas: I think 2018 might have been the last time [448.16] Thomas: But yeah, we designed that [450.16] Thomas: I'm still racing it now [453.28] Thomas: We made small updates throughout the course of its life [456.0] Thomas: But nothing really big enough to warrant like a new name or anything like that [459.36] Thomas: It's all just being, you know, small radius changes [463.68] Thomas: Improving the tolerances of some of the gaps in parts [466.08] Thomas: Like the roll pages now going better than they used to [469.52] Thomas: It's been a lot of little changes [470.72] Thomas: But otherwise, yeah, same frame [472.8] Jack: That is mad [474.56] Jack: Mind you, I found out that Foxy have released some ESCs [480.72] Jack: Four in one that are like four hundred and no one hundred and forty dollars [487.04] Thomas: Yeah [488.4] Thomas: Shortage has been tough [489.84] Thomas: Like everything [491.6] Thomas: I mean, I guess for me [493.12] Thomas: I'm obviously being a sponsored pilot [495.2] Thomas: I don't tend to normally focus on the prices of things [497.84] Thomas: It's just sort of this is okay [499.52] Thomas: Let's get this to get this to work that we want or whatever [503.44] Thomas: But just lately especially because we do some product development now [506.4] Thomas: And we work with these companies like in a product development sense [510.72] Thomas: actually seeing how the prices change where even like [514.64] Thomas: With radio master where their radios were before covid versus afterwards in price [520.48] Thomas: And hearing them having issues trying to find the right chips and you know [524.8] Thomas: being backordered for months and months and months where they've got everything to build this radio for just like a few of those [531.92] Thomas: Chips that you know just everyone wants and they can't do anything about it [535.2] Thomas: And then now as it goes on and on it's like material shortages and this and that [540.08] Thomas: So it's a it's a crazy world. We live in at the moment. That's for sure [544.32] Jack: You know, you know things are serious when [548.0] Jack: like Intel [549.76] Jack: literally [551.2] Jack: build a plant in Dubai and then [553.92] Jack: just [555.12] Jack: Have like manufacturing concrete for themselves [559.44] Jack: And stuff like that. Like, you know, you just think [563.76] Jack: You know like you literally have to do everything yourself in order to [569.36] Jack: ensure your [571.36] Jack: your supply chain [573.28] Thomas: so yeah, I think especially for [576.32] Thomas: A company like Intel where there's just going to be such a huge demand and it's only going to be growing [581.2] Thomas: So for them, it's like basically a must just to keep up with the sort of the focus the flow of products and [587.2] Thomas: Everyone wanting their stuff and needing it [589.68] Thomas: So especially I think after covid a lot of things now more [593.68] Thomas: Online like the amount of people that are coupled with computers and just sort of integrating them into their daily lives [599.92] Thomas: It's way higher. I think than it was even a couple years ago [603.92] Jack: Yeah, definitely [606.24] Jack: So, um, what's your setup? Are you still running the team motors? Are you still running? [611.68] Jack: Um success [614.08] Thomas: Yeah, so what we have so we have the js1 frame [617.04] Thomas: Yeah, i'm using an orange pod now for the real racing, which is fun [620.8] Thomas: But uh the bms rep the v2s [623.68] Thomas: So they're an updated version of the bms rep the v1 motors [628.16] Thomas: Um, just a little bit lighter a little bit higher response [631.28] Thomas: We changed some of the processes and how we manufacture things. So we've got a bit more efficiency there [635.76] Thomas: um [637.04] Thomas: for the [638.16] Thomas: fly stack [639.84] Thomas: i'm using uh foxia fly control is the [643.76] Thomas: uh [645.2] Thomas: What's it called f7 22 mini pro and then also the mini on some but i'm planning to switch them all to the pro [651.76] Thomas: Because the pro's got more features [653.76] Thomas: Uh, and then eses is the foxia reaper 45 or the hobby link 40 amps [660.0] Thomas: and then [661.2] Thomas: Frame i'll tell you not frame. We've done it. Uh, like the vio system [665.76] Thomas: We're rocking [667.44] Thomas: Tbs. Unified pro 32s [669.84] Thomas: Uh tbs. Unified per ufl's at the moment, but then I also have the sma pigtails if I want to switch to that [676.64] Thomas: and then [678.16] Thomas: Tracer will crossfire depending on where i'm flying if it's like in the middle of a city race then crossfire [684.32] Thomas: if it's sort of normal normal environment, then i'll go to tracer for the lower refresh rate and [691.12] Thomas: yeah, better better link for [694.08] Thomas: control [695.52] Thomas: and then [697.28] Thomas: The camera foxia predator v4s and v5s [705.04] Thomas: Yeah, well i haven't actually [707.04] Thomas: Done and order with them in ages to be honest [709.76] Thomas: So I think I tend to mainly break things in racing [712.96] Thomas: And so because there hasn't been much racing in the last couple years only just started really for us this year [718.56] Thomas: um, i haven't really been breaking much [721.52] Thomas: so [722.8] Thomas: been flying a fair bit but not really [725.76] Stephen: Destroying gear so not being tempted to not being tempted to play with hd zero yet then [733.12] Thomas: Um, we had an old shark bite system [737.12] Thomas: That we got from do you guys know strip there? [741.6] Thomas: Oh [743.6] Thomas: Okay, so back in the day he was the guy that used to travel around with chad noac chance, mate. Um, yeah [749.52] Thomas: So he was in melbourne. This is like [753.52] Thomas: Early [754.96] Thomas: Who's 2021 or 2020? I have no idea anymore. The whole like two-year gap is like a big blur. Yep [762.96] Thomas: Somewhere in there he came past he dropped off a hd zero system nice. He's very struck by system [769.6] Thomas: Um, so we've worked on that a bit [771.6] Thomas: Like i've got a js one that runs the dji hd and one that one runs the hd zero or the shark bite for me to just like [780.4] Thomas: Test it and so just make sure i've got everything working [783.2] Stephen: The shark bite cameras work kind of sketch compared to what they have now [788.4] Thomas: Yeah, so i've i've got to update it and [791.68] Thomas: You know try new parts because I also want to build a frame that can run it properly [796.8] Thomas: So with the js one, we just got this sort of [799.36] Thomas: Makeshift pod that's able to house everything for testing but it's not very durable [802.88] Thomas: It's literally just sort of like a shell to put the gear in and get data [807.44] Thomas: so [809.04] Stephen: Sometime stylized js one. I haven't um seen that frame myself [814.0] Thomas: Um, can I do me grab it? Yeah, grab one. Yeah, absolutely [818.24] Thomas: Okay. So what do we have we have what is my in my opinion the ultimate race cream design. So it is designed by me fully so [826.48] Thomas: uh [826.96] Thomas: I'm quite biased. But yeah, if it's my needs exactly how I want it uses a roll cage design [833.84] Thomas: Basically what we've got is some flat pieces of carbon that are arranged in a vertical fashion [839.36] Thomas: Connected to the rest of the chassis through some standoffs [842.72] Stephen: So instead of just having like camera plates, they effectively go all the way front to back [847.92] Thomas: Correct. Yeah, and they protect all the equipment from front on impacts [852.64] Thomas: So except for the camera everything else is recessed into the roll cage. So front on impacts. You have really good protection [860.16] Thomas: Uh right up to around turner case now obviously depends what you hit if you hit metal or concrete [864.8] Thomas: It's going to be a different story. But uh for things like gates and flags usually it works out. Okay [870.08] Thomas: Uh silent impacts we protect that with the pod [873.52] Thomas: Uh, it can't take as much of an impact as the front on but this is mainly for your mid-air collisions [879.36] Thomas: And just sort of light taps keeps the dirt 3d printed [883.04] Thomas: Yeah, these are currently 3d printed. So we're looking at switching to vacuum formed poly carb [888.8] Thomas: but [889.68] Thomas: Uh, we haven't really jumped on that yet because there's no racing at the moment and we want to release that [895.84] Thomas: When the racing is more common [898.48] Thomas: And we know that you know getting a mold made up for it and whatever is going to be sort of worth it [903.44] Thomas: Because the gear is still changing. There's new stuff coming out [906.0] Thomas: I'm [906.64] Thomas: Being developing a lot of stuff with other companies that we haven't released yet on purpose [910.72] Thomas: Because we don't want to release it before the racing starts and it can get copied etc [915.68] Thomas: So i'm sure the other companies too that are in the fpv industry have their own little tricks that they haven't [921.36] Stephen: Released yet. So and you've got a pretty aggressive stack height there as well, right? [925.6] Stephen: Which is stopping some of the digital solutions going in I guess [929.04] Thomas: Yeah, correct. So this is able to carry some 30 by 30 stacks just so for the first year of racing back in 2019 [936.64] Thomas: I was running the foxia [939.84] Thomas: F7 22 dual flight controller and the t-motor f55m [945.04] Thomas: 30 by 30 esc [946.64] Thomas: So you can just fit 30 by 30 in this if you have to and that didn't end up hanging up for me where I could use [951.12] Thomas: This essentially early for me finding a 2020 stack that I liked [956.16] Thomas: um [957.12] Thomas: But then yeah, it's really optimized for 20 by 20 and it's also built specifically to house [962.86] Thomas: TBS electronics [964.56] Thomas: So your receiver and video transmitter? [968.56] Thomas: I mean, you'll probably find other receivers that fit pretty well, but video transmitters [972.8] Thomas: You basically just want to go with the pro 3d2 or the just the pro nano [976.64] Stephen: You don't really want to go with anything else because have you been tempted by any of these combined vtx and uh [983.44] Stephen: And rx solutions like 69 [986.24] Thomas: Yeah, i've played with some packaging recently i'm trying to work out how I would build a new quad [991.04] Thomas: I've actually have some developments on a new frame. I'm not sure [994.48] Thomas: When we'll actually end up releasing because this is actually still way too quick for me [998.8] Thomas: um [1000.4] Thomas: But I want to I want to have something eventually to move to [1004.56] Thomas: In the event that one day on the right track or in the right scenario [1007.92] Thomas: I want a bit more whether it's to make up for my lack of skill or [1011.36] Thomas: You know, whatever scenario might be so even a few times back in 2019 [1014.96] Thomas: I had to utilize the top speed of this thing to sort of uh, claw my way back on certain events. So [1021.28] Thomas: Having more ability is always good [1024.08] Thomas: So even though i'm sort of still got a long way to go before i'm anywhere near the limit of this [1029.36] Thomas: I do wish to [1031.6] Thomas: Have something to jump to ready [1033.84] Thomas: Um in the modus and the props in the frame just everywhere. So we're working on new things [1041.76] Thomas: Some of its work some of it hasn't it's sort of hard at the moment because it's there's a lot of compromises that you make [1046.16] Thomas: For more performance and I don't really want to compromise [1049.28] Thomas: So I just have to work out new things that work and don't compromise [1054.64] Thomas: So it's been a bit of a journey [1056.8] Thomas: Um, but the good thing is this year. I do have a dedicated rnd budget [1060.08] Thomas: So I can actually spend money to learn and accumulate knowledge and test things myself [1067.28] Thomas: um [1068.72] Thomas: And hopefully fingers crossed we find some good things eventually and we can put it together in the form of a new frame [1074.4] Thomas: or an upgraded js one [1077.2] Curry: And it looks like the camera tells what about 45 degrees on that quite yeah, correct [1081.84] Thomas: I like 45. So with the current lenses, they feel these are pretty insane [1086.48] Thomas: So for me 45 I can stay leaned over quite a lot but still see [1092.16] Thomas: like the horizon pretty comfortably [1094.8] Thomas: so for some of the 3d elements like your towers and that it can get a bit challenging a full stick but [1100.96] Thomas: um [1102.0] Thomas: I think I just need to learn how to fly around it for now [1104.24] Thomas: Not really too concerned about that yet [1106.64] Thomas: So and if I wanted to I can't always up the tilt more but 45 [1110.32] Thomas: So far it's been really comfortable [1113.52] Jack: Not being tempted to uh, just have four rocket motors and you just light them instantaneously and [1121.44] Thomas: Just go honest I want to try it for a video one day. I think it'd make for a really enjoyable video [1127.44] Thomas: um [1128.64] Thomas: That i'm not sure how practical it would be for real racing. So [1133.2] Thomas: Yeah, it's it's been good though. It's just things it's been uh, plus vectoring. It's done its job [1139.28] Thomas: um, you can't really see this if you're like you're listening to it you can't see this but [1144.08] Thomas: um [1145.2] Thomas: The js one's pretty thin [1147.52] Thomas: So it's basically everything's built to have just enough to finish a race [1152.08] Thomas: So it's got what I call race durability [1153.84] Thomas: Which is basically enough that you know, if I did send this into the ground in the middle of a race [1157.68] Thomas: I should be able to get back up and finish [1160.08] Thomas: but uh, you will [1162.16] Thomas: noodle arms and things so [1164.4] Thomas: It is really more on the performance end than the durability side, but it gets the job done. So it protects the electronics [1171.2] Thomas: Um, there have been a lot of occasions where you've had mid-airs ended up [1175.04] Thomas: You know in a situation where you should have been out of the race but [1178.24] Thomas: It's helped us together long enough to finish and get the job done [1182.56] Thomas: And then yeah [1184.88] Thomas: Well, what are the arms about five mill carbon? [1188.32] Thomas: Oh five mil thick. Yeah, and then the actual shape tapers the whole way through so depending on where you are in the geometry [1194.64] Thomas: It's always a little bit different. So just try and maximize [1197.84] Thomas: Get the clean air through that. Yeah, just performance and strength as much strength as we can and stiffness [1204.56] Thomas: So in this case, I think we were more limited by stiffness than strength for my use case [1209.6] Thomas: So just trying to [1211.52] Stephen: Yeah, i'll go ahead. Yeah, are you still getting faster then you're kind of implying earlier that you know, you you're still [1218.08] Stephen: Not able to push the frame to its limits [1220.08] Stephen: Do you think that another season you're going to be at the limits of that frame and you'll have to go back to the drawing board [1225.2] Stephen: Or where do you stand on that? [1228.4] Thomas: I think [1230.88] Thomas: I feel like by next year I could be at 80 percent of its ability [1235.04] Thomas: I feel like that would be probably fair. It's like it depends on what elements there are [1239.36] Thomas: Um, there's a lot of trucks even now there's a truck the other day where I just throw it a limited to 65 percent [1244.56] Thomas: So I was just like this is too much to handle i'm going to drop this down [1247.44] Thomas: I just feel like having fun today. So a lot of the time i'll force myself to fly on full power [1252.56] Thomas: Just to have it as a backup in a real race [1255.2] Thomas: So just you know get used to what the stick feels like even not actually using the full ability just what the travel feels like [1261.12] Thomas: Um, but that day I was just like nah, i'm too tired [1263.28] Thomas: I just want to enjoy this day [1264.32] Thomas: So I just throw it a limited to think right down so sort of a comfortable pace and i'm just like yeah [1269.2] Thomas: This is good. So because then you get all the characteristics and [1272.8] Thomas: I'll pardon [1274.08] Thomas: What kv of the motors you're running? Uh 2000 kv. Uh [1278.72] Thomas: Yeah, and there are two three six and a half stater [1281.92] Thomas: So pretty beefy, uh, but the prop side run alice compared to what? [1287.04] Thomas: Sort of the standard is at the moment. They're a bit on the heavier side [1291.04] Thomas: so [1291.84] Thomas: We do need the talks to [1293.76] Thomas: Get these mode get these props to spin up to optimal rpms and perform the best [1300.43] Tony: Which you do [1302.43] Curry: I was gonna ask that I may be imagining this and it's it's probably happened before covid [1307.87] Curry: Which means it's all a blur, but I thought at some point you were out [1311.95] Curry: testing [1312.91] Curry: The dji fpv system and taking it around the track and then compared what you did with analog and analog was still faster [1319.95] Curry: But I just wanted if you went back and you've done any more with it, or do you ever think it's going to be? [1325.69] Curry: racable compared to analog [1328.09] Thomas: Um, is this fpv combo or the fpv just the beat video transmitting? [1333.37] Thomas: um [1334.41] Thomas: Uh, just just the fpv [1337.29] Thomas: um [1338.89] Thomas: I think [1341.29] Thomas: Still a long way off at the moment if we're talking purely performance, right? [1346.25] Thomas: Um, there's still a lot of other things that need to be [1349.85] Thomas: Spotted out [1351.45] Thomas: That means that there are something updates to it, right? So you don't really know I think as long as it keeps getting support [1357.13] Thomas: It can sort of go either way [1360.89] Thomas: um [1364.68] Thomas: Yeah, so i'm sort of i'm not really diving into it [1368.36] Thomas: myself like i'm just sort of [1370.36] Thomas: Updating as I go every few months and retesting everything to keep up to date. Um [1377.69] Thomas: Yeah, we'll see how it goes the hd0 stuff's looking actually pretty promising [1382.57] Thomas: So from everyone i've spoken to about it [1385.37] Thomas: Uh, it sounds like that guy's doing a lot of work but to actually get this done [1389.29] Thomas: Uh, that's pretty hectic for a long man operation [1393.45] Stephen: Yeah, there was a video that madstech over here in the uk put out [1397.93] Stephen: Just a couple of days ago where they they spent a long time like over an hour talking [1403.37] Stephen: um [1404.57] Stephen: Mads and karlzau that the founder hd0 and they went into a lot of the [1410.41] Stephen: The slow growth that he's been doing and how he went from shark bite to hd0 [1416.11] Stephen: And it sounds like the guy is actually [1418.41] Stephen: Reimplementing a lot of the chips to to get the size down to get the efficiency up and to get the cost down as well [1424.51] Stephen: So it sounds very promising and I imagine it's not going to be the last we hear from hd0 [1430.43] Stephen: He made it a comment that he's very keen to get 90 fps for races and he's very keen to get a 1080p option [1436.91] Stephen: For uh freestylers and other people as well. So it sounds [1440.99] Paul: 90 fps would be just amazing wouldn't it? [1443.15] Thomas: Yeah, I was gonna say even at the weight that the uh board is at the moment [1446.99] Thomas: That would be the kind of thing that would probably bring a lot of people over [1451.39] Stephen: So interesting factoid from that karlzau was actually the guy who who wrote the screen driver chips in a lot of these oled [1459.31] Stephen: goggles, um, oh screen driver for the sky zones and for the hdos were [1464.27] Stephen: Apparently created by karl and he created the chipsets to to run car backup cameras [1470.83] Stephen: About 15 years ago or something [1474.35] Stephen: Wow, that is really interesting the guys had a varied life around video. Yeah [1479.63] Paul: Well, I just sent him a friend request this morning [1482.43] Paul: I think it was the last night [1483.79] Paul: To have a chat with him about all the stuff that he's actually doing sort of keen to know and get a head [1487.63] Paul: Round it and try and start with that. We'll start to catch up with [1491.71] Thomas: What they're actually doing. We'll be pretty cautious with it [1494.99] Thomas: So I think it's probably like I say over the last couple weeks. We sort of decided we're going to look into it more [1500.11] Thomas: and have a proper serious [1502.19] Thomas: analysis of it and where it's going and [1505.79] Thomas: Even for us what things we might want to develop around it [1509.23] Thomas: So even maybe sooner rather than later, so we're gonna we're gonna still feel it out [1513.07] Thomas: But I I think [1514.51] Thomas: Haitian is probably the closest at the moment [1516.99] Paul: Would I think the good thing is he's actually looking at all the elements not just hd [1521.55] Paul: Because a lot of people sort of think about it and just say oh hd [1523.79] Paul: You know what I mean? Well, it goes beyond that frame rates are really important. Well, but like you just brought up [1527.95] Paul: That's it. I'm a critical one. I look at like i'm obviously knowing the atomic skill level, but I look at his video and I realize [1535.47] Paul: Because he's flying faster [1537.47] Paul: Around some elements. He might do element one and element two [1540.99] Paul: He might only get like fragment takes 10 frames to work with [1544.99] Paul: Whereas um when I do it i've got like 15 frames to work with and when I look at his dev [1549.87] Paul: Yeah, I think well, I can't I haven't got enough information to make that decision. You know what I mean? [1555.07] Paul: Um, so I think having the higher frame rate is critical obviously that's going to make for even faster and better flying [1561.55] Paul: Reducing the size of the device and weight. Well, then the argument of well, I don't want to go hd because it's heavier [1568.51] Paul: Is that at all? You know what I mean? Yeah, it was in my opinion. He's ticking off all the critical issues [1574.11] Paul: not just saying hd is better [1577.07] Paul: And just purely from a resolution point of view and saying um hd means you can see more and that's not always the case [1583.55] Paul: You know what I mean? Yeah, but the fact that he's actually ticking off all those little critical areas. I think [1587.95] Paul: Is what's going to make the massive difference? [1590.75] Stephen: Yeah, I wish the guy good luck and he doesn't want to go and make hardware. That's one point [1594.51] Stephen: He kept ramming home. He wants other people to go make it. He's got fox ear on board now [1598.03] Stephen: You say you're a fox ear team [1599.63] Stephen: So you might be able to hit up fox ear for some of that [1602.27] Paul: Yeah, that'd be really because fox ears sort of changed their tuner over the last couple of years. Would you say tom? [1608.11] Thomas: Uh, it feels like a couple of years, but it was actually before that it was the like mid 2018 [1613.63] Paul: Yeah, they started doing really good. The quality started improving and they tried to actually make better gear [1619.55] Paul: Um, not saying the gear wasn't great back then, but it's actually more consistently better. Yeah, they started pushing themselves [1626.51] Thomas: There's no one else pushing them [1627.71] Thomas: They were actually doing things purely because they wanted to [1630.83] Thomas: And a lot of the stuff that they've been releasing over the last two years has been purely out of their own [1635.79] Thomas: Love for the hobby or the initial or whatever the motivation. Yeah, not necessarily [1641.31] Paul: Yeah, like you know you're pushing people to actually produce better quality stuff [1646.03] Paul: Whereas all of a sudden they're actually doing that too without us initiating it [1650.43] Paul: And all of a sudden you might get a component to test and say well change this this and this this should actually improve x y [1655.39] Paul: Is it it's like oh, okay. Well, that's really good [1658.03] Paul: You know what I mean rather than just putting out a product [1660.43] Paul: So hopefully the fact that they're taking on this hc0 stuff will be positive [1666.75] Paul: For the industry and get other people on board [1671.23] Stephen: Someone's got a step first [1673.23] Paul: Yes, exactly. And that's why it's not even to um [1675.79] Paul: Whether you like ill musk or not whether you think it's a nut case or he's brilliant or whatever the case may be [1680.83] Paul: The fact that he sort of pushed for electric cars and everyone thought was a stupid idea at the time [1686.11] Paul: And he got so much, you know, um [1688.67] Paul: I suppose criticism from literally everyone but now look at all the big manufacturers that are coming out with electric cars [1694.35] Paul: I don't think if that hadn't occurred [1697.07] Paul: I don't think we would have got the uptake of electric cars with electric [1700.27] Paul: I'm not arguing whether they're good or bad or whatever [1702.59] Paul: But it's still I mean it took that one company sort of to push it and now we've got toronto and everyone else jumping on board [1708.75] Stephen: Yeah, I mean it well if you rewind that even further right petrol engine cars look like a big gamble back at the early [1714.57] Stephen: 1900s where the sensible choice was to run steam how many people out there rocking a steam car these days? [1720.43] Paul: exactly exactly [1723.31] Paul: I'm sure it's gonna take [1725.31] Stephen: Yeah, probably [1728.59] Tony: Definitely in england [1730.59] Tony: Yeah [1732.19] Jack: the old steam [1734.91] Jack: Land Rover [1736.91] Stephen: So you mentioned you also you're running a 2306. That's not a racer size or 2306.5, right? [1744.27] Stephen: I always hear about racers with the 22s [1747.15] Thomas: Yeah, 22s I think have always been more popular like [1750.43] Thomas: From I mean back to even to 2016. They were the more popular choice [1755.07] Thomas: Honestly, just in our testing. This just worked out to be the best result for us obviously to [1760.19] Thomas: Each company even though like the status size in a kv [1763.55] Thomas: They can sort of mean very different things for each company. Well kv. I think is usually pretty consistent [1768.51] Thomas: But status sizes depending on what company you go to you always need to just compare within their tree [1774.27] Thomas: Not really this one to that company's one. So [1777.87] Stephen: All right, you're saying you don't necessarily believe that a 23 mil stator in one company is equivalent to a 23 mil stator in another company [1786.03] Thomas: Yeah, correct [1788.59] Thomas: The materials used in this data [1791.47] Thomas: Uh, it all makes a difference [1794.59] Thomas: so [1796.03] Thomas: Um, there's a lot of stuff that we're being playing with where you'll have two motors that if you measure them [1800.99] Thomas: They're both the 2306 [1803.07] Thomas: But you put them on the racetrack and they perform very differently. They feel very different [1807.87] Thomas: So it's all about how the status is designed [1810.91] Thomas: Um, you know the materials you use the processes used to create them [1815.87] Thomas: Um, I mean even like a probably a big one that we didn't expect with these because these were always just going to be a [1820.27] Thomas: Lighter more durable v1. That was the original plan [1824.11] Thomas: um [1825.23] Thomas: Because we're winding to such a high kv [1827.63] Thomas: Uh, at least for six cell and we're also using a silver core winding [1832.11] Thomas: There was a fairly high failure rate by team murder standards in the um [1838.11] Thomas: In the production, right? So there might be that they had to originally was like a 90 [1843.39] Thomas: something [1845.31] Thomas: 96 95 success rate or something. So it's like five percent of the murders that have to get scrapped because the the actual winding [1851.47] Thomas: Um material wasn't good, right? So when they do that testing they're like, okay, these ones are cut out [1856.91] Jack: Um short swimming out or snapping the winding or [1861.23] Thomas: Uh, just not good quality material the process that they were using to make it wasn't actually consistent [1867.31] Paul: And when they do the kv test the kv test might have been outside of the min max [1871.55] Thomas: Yeah [1874.99] Thomas: So this time around for the b2s they've worked on a new process to get more consistency [1880.59] Thomas: That's all they were out there was we wanted a more consistent [1884.03] Thomas: Production we wanted a higher rate of success with what? [1887.23] Thomas: product we produce [1888.91] Thomas: Uh inadvertently with the way that they change their processes [1893.95] Thomas: We got an actual efficiency increase just on the winding alone [1897.63] Thomas: It's got better thermal conductivity [1899.87] Thomas: Uh, the resistance doesn't go up as much when the murder gets hot [1902.91] Thomas: And so in trying to improve the process so we have a lot of failure rate in the factory [1908.27] Thomas: We actually just ended up with a more efficient [1911.71] Thomas: uh cooler [1914.11] Thomas: Just overall better winding [1917.07] Thomas: And like they're just the same as the old ones as far as the [1921.55] Thomas: You can see the uh, color's a bit darker a bit higher copper content [1924.91] Thomas: But the actual performance is way increased [1928.03] Frank: This episode was recorded in front of a live online audience [1931.21] Frank: Downloaded and edited to make sense when it played audio only [1934.73] Frank: Censored to please the itunes people hosted on the internet forwarded through to your podcast provider [1939.53] Frank: Downloaded playing on your device and is now playing in your ears all thanks to our patreons [1945.31] Frank: Consider joining them and you'll also get other online benefits [1948.67] Frank: Find out more at patreon.com [1951.79] Frank: Let's drone out back to motors, right? Okay, so back to yeah, so a lot of those motors that would have failed [1957.47] Thomas: They get taken out when taker does the testing right? I'll bless you. Um [1962.35] Curry: Sorry, I thought it hit the mute then but I missed [1966.11] Thomas: Um [1967.55] Thomas: So a lot of things get taken out that being said on their v1s [1970.99] Thomas: The most common way that they would die [1973.95] Thomas: Is in racing you obviously accumulate damage, right you crash into things things move out of shape [1978.75] Thomas: And then once they get to a point where things were out of tolerance enough [1982.43] Thomas: When the bearings were sort of a bit rattly in that [1985.15] Thomas: Then there would be enough resistance in the motor that it would start to cook if you sent it, right? [1990.43] Thomas: So a lot of the time [1992.19] Thomas: You'd sort of start to notice the enamel starting to get a bit crispy and then usually I'd have to just give those motors to dad [1998.67] Thomas: Uh for respect quad because that would like at that point with a little bit and everything [2002.59] Thomas: They actually never get to the point where they get hard enough to have any issues [2005.95] Thomas: um, but in the proper heat of a race like [2009.63] Thomas: if you [2011.31] Thomas: Put enough wear on the motor and you didn't really care for it [2014.19] Thomas: Keep it clean or whatever or if it just got simple wrist you bend how to shape [2017.15] Thomas: Yeah, it would overheat usually rather than just end up sort of too banged up to work [2021.23] Thomas: But then it was the being banged up that made it overheat in the first place [2025.47] Thomas: Yeah, um that being said though the b2s are way more tolerant like you can put them through [2031.05] Thomas: Significantly more things that you shouldn't do to a motor [2034.75] Thomas: And they don't tend to cook [2036.35] Thomas: um, even like I think a big reason for that too is to be actually able to improve the [2041.55] Thomas: Royal strength of the motor to begin with [2043.95] Thomas: Um around the base of the motor we increased the strength by about 40 percent [2048.75] Thomas: And we added like point that's a little it's like point [2052.75] Thomas: Three of a gram of material but just in the right spot [2055.71] Thomas: So let me save weight of another is which is what allowed us to do that [2058.51] Thomas: We were able to save a lot of weight and then go we've got all these savings [2062.19] Thomas: Can we add any back in that'll net a big gain? [2065.15] Thomas: And in that case, it was sort of a no-brainer adding a touch of material, but the durability went up significantly and it was like [2071.23] Thomas: Well, okay, let's just go with that. Um, it's been really good [2073.87] Thomas: We've got one of the guys in the u.s. That's been running them that was sponsored by team writer recently [2078.59] Thomas: um [2080.03] Thomas: And he's been in shock with how durable they've been which for me. It's what I consider is race durability [2087.23] Thomas: Um for him, it's been a big step up, I guess so [2090.59] Thomas: It's been good hearing that and sort of knowing that it's been working especially on start on impacts where [2095.31] Thomas: like [2096.35] Thomas: If you sort of flatten out for something and you have it to impact the the motor on the side [2100.75] Thomas: Which is like the worst [2105.07] Thomas: He's been able to get away with some of those crashes that [2107.79] Thomas: Previously you couldn't obviously hit anything hard enough. You're gonna break something [2111.39] Thomas: but it's sort of um, the world of racing is mitigating risk as much as possible and trying to [2117.31] Thomas: Find the right balance of redundancy to straight out performance [2123.39] Jack: And you're a two-volt motor kind of guy aren't you and you're not using aluminium [2128.99] Thomas: So two bolts and then but still supporting all four with the full base support [2135.15] Thomas: Yeah full base support and that just stops the motor from getting like levered [2139.39] Thomas: and uh broken off so [2142.03] Thomas: Yeah, that's sort of my balance there where I save a bit of weight with just hitting two bolts [2146.27] Thomas: but at the same time the whole base is still supported so it can't like leverage up and twist and [2153.07] Thomas: Damage the base because we have to work here with aluminium and aluminium is still soft. Yeah [2157.79] Jack: I've got I've got a really [2159.95] Jack: Uh weird question to ask you guys [2162.03] Jack: Um, do you remember when you guys got to hang out with the army? [2166.27] Jack: Did they let you have a go of their little mini helicopter quad? [2170.11] Jack: Yes [2171.63] Jack: No way [2172.99] Paul: It was mind-blowing [2174.99] Paul: Can I can I share the first encounter with that little quad tongue? [2178.43] Jack: Yeah [2179.23] Paul: Yeah, okay [2180.19] Paul: So we'd seen that little quad before uh, but not fly [2184.19] Paul: And we had this was back in probably 2019. I think it was 18 we had the um [2190.11] Paul: What was it called MIT? I'll tell you what was it military international drone racing [2194.67] Tony: Yeah [2195.55] Paul: Yeah, that's right. Um [2196.99] Paul: And the event had actually finished and I was having a chat with a few people was pretty quiet [2201.23] Paul: There's no quads flying and thomas like tapping my shoulder like dad dad, you know what I mean? [2205.55] Paul: I'm like what you know what I mean? He goes look up and this thing was probably flying [2210.19] Paul: How far would you say tom probably? [2212.27] Paul: Five meters 20 meters away [2214.27] Paul: No, I was questioning that [2215.95] Paul: Really close [2217.31] Paul: Okay, so say about 10 meters away [2219.31] Paul: But you couldn't actually hear it at all [2221.47] Paul: And it was a realization that this little thing that looks like a toy [2224.83] Paul: Could be flying really near you and you wouldn't even know [2228.51] Paul: Um and then yes. Yes. Yes, that's it [2231.87] Paul: Um, and then it was earlier this year or late last year when they were actually at our flying field [2237.63] Paul: They actually let us have a fly with it [2239.79] Jack: And um, is it the same controls or is it different? [2243.55] Paul: It's not fly like flying a traditional drone [2247.87] Paul: It's more like would you say a mavic top? [2250.83] Thomas: It's sort of like a mavic be but solid buttons that you're using to interface with it. There's no touchscreen [2256.19] Paul: Yeah [2256.99] Thomas: So you can sort of look at buttons you like you you like see your airspeed and your turning rate [2262.51] Thomas: And then you can like unclick it or re-click it. Um, and they can do like way pointing and everything [2268.51] Paul: So 25 minute flight time on it. Um, it's really really quiet [2271.95] Paul: you can um, uh do thermal imaging and all that sort of stuff like we had our [2277.15] Paul: And you could fly over it like over the track and you'd see this like a little bit of a orange glow [2281.95] Paul: Where the timing system was at the start gate [2284.35] Paul: Or if you flew anywhere near the cars, you could actually see those if there was kangaroos in the bushes [2289.15] Paul: You would see their thermal heat signature [2292.43] Thomas: Um, you know well even lonesome [2294.19] Thomas: We got back from lunch and you could see the tires on the car were warmer than the other tires [2298.99] Paul: Yeah, so one car had warmer tires than the other other cars [2303.47] Paul: so, um [2304.43] Paul: Even that looks like a little toy [2305.79] Paul: It's really mind-blowing what they think of the frame rate of the video is really like what would you say five frames per second? [2312.51] Thomas: Uh, it's like variable [2314.51] Paul: It's not great [2316.59] Paul: But if you use it for reconnaissance and things like along those lines, it's really really an impressive [2323.07] Paul: Little toy i'd love to have one [2324.99] Paul: Really want one [2326.27] Paul: I promise you got a short [2328.67] Curry: Because I remember seeing some of the video from it because they got that big sort of rugged eyes control thing [2332.91] Curry: Yes, and it kind of because it doesn't stabilize but it the video was sort of [2338.03] Curry: Rotating so you always had that the sort of horizon was straight and the video was just rotating around it. That was [2344.27] Paul: Really clever stuff in there. Even the fact that's got the cameras that could do I can't remember what the [2348.67] Paul: Four or five modes is but you've also got um [2352.03] Paul: A little tiny device to get all what the cameras can do [2354.99] Paul: It can fly for like 25 minutes [2357.71] Paul: And that's just insane like this little tiny thing can fly for 25 minutes. Just mind-blowing. They've got they got nasa [2364.35] Stephen: Super batteries and they got secret batteries. We say this thing was actually retired in 2016 or 2017 [2371.95] Stephen: Yeah, but they're technically needs replaced now [2375.95] Jack: 20 years ahead of ours. We're like and that we're bashing rocks together and stuff [2380.99] Stephen: Yeah, you know this thing is an 18 gram drone and that's the old model [2386.11] Thomas: Yes. Yeah, I think the new one they increase the rate by 30 percent [2390.03] Jack: Yeah, and it's got a laser on it and it can like launch missiles [2395.07] Jack: they've like [2396.83] Jack: They've put a data logger in for thomas's flying. So it flies better [2402.59] Jack: and faster [2403.87] Tony: Probably wonder what it'd be like in the window [2406.67] Tony: It was it struggles really impressive [2409.31] Thomas: Like it has like sort of a bowl of air space that it holds in like when it holds [2413.71] Thomas: It's not like it's like still [2415.63] Thomas: It's like there's like a like an area like maybe like it's moving around and it sort of just stays in that [2421.45] Thomas: general [2422.75] Thomas: ball of space so that's how like when I was flying it I sort of just traded it like [2428.35] Thomas: always like i'm in like a two meter bowl or maybe like a 1.5 meter bowl and I would just be like [2435.23] Thomas: pilot the big ball in the right direction and then it'll sort of stay in that general spot [2441.39] Paul: If that makes sense and the funny stories, they're sort of shared with us things along the lines of um, [2446.59] Paul: it's um crashing because it ran out of power whatever [2450.03] Paul: And they've got to go and find it [2452.11] Paul: And the problem you have is like when we're looking for our quads, it's not such a big deal [2455.07] Paul: But this thing's tiny if you step on it, you've just crushed like freaking thirty thousand dollars worth of um [2461.47] Stephen: No, no, guess how guess how much the the thing actually cost because I see in the [2467.15] Tony: 70 000 [2468.27] Stephen: 60 000 a piece [2470.83] Stephen: Oh, wow 30 of them [2472.83] Stephen: Apparently a pile small enough that could fit in a soldier's helmet. Um [2478.83] Stephen: Well 1.4 million quid us 1.8 million [2483.47] Curry: To be fair though as soon as you sell something to the military you do bump the price up [2487.47] Curry: I'm sure I saw this video where the military are trying to launch this thing and it was definitely a skywalker [2493.95] Curry: Just it just had camo painted on it and thus it was like 50 grand and he kept throwing it into the ground for some reason [2499.87] Curry: It couldn't launch it [2501.23] Paul: Yes, I remember that one. I remember seeing that because it was hilarious [2505.07] Thomas: Yeah, the black hornet though does have some crazy tech in it. That's just [2510.67] Thomas: I don't even know how they shrink it down to that size and make it work. So I think for them all the development is in [2516.59] Thomas: That super lightweight airframe [2519.15] Thomas: Those beautiful balanced propellers that are like the tiniest thinnest piece of carbon that you've like ever seen [2526.51] Thomas: Um, I think one person likes them, isn't it? [2529.47] Thomas: There's one person that likes us [2531.15] Thomas: Yeah, there's only one person that can do it like they apparently they tried sourcing another company and that company was like [2536.11] Thomas: Way less efficient [2537.71] Thomas: So it was like one dude that can do it and then all the electronics is just it's super robust the link [2545.07] Thomas: like the amount of things you can fly behind [2547.87] Thomas: and [2549.23] Thomas: Just the fact that it's so relentless and the fact that just always works [2552.83] Thomas: um [2555.07] Thomas: It's it's a really impressive platform [2557.47] Thomas: So and even like the amount like we're hearing some of the stories of like some of the stuff they've done when they're being [2561.87] Thomas: on tour with those [2563.47] Thomas: um, like the amount of [2565.15] Thomas: soldiers and villages and stuff that's already saved because you can like have them run perimeter searches and then you have like a [2571.31] Thomas: central dude that sort of [2572.99] Thomas: You know manages them all and they're like alert if it sees something like in its perimeter search [2578.51] Thomas: And they've done that before where they've like had like an ambush getting set up around them [2582.67] Thomas: Um, and they've been able to get everyone out without ever having a firefight [2586.67] Thomas: Yes, so [2588.19] Thomas: Yeah, it's done really good work [2590.03] Paul: So save lives for sure [2592.19] Tony: Yeah, you can't see it. You know hear it because it's tiny. Yeah [2597.07] Paul: I think that that was probably the most mind boggling thing at that um event when the event was over and it was actually hovering [2604.11] Paul: So close to us and I had no idea that it was there at all [2608.35] Paul: And it was out in the open like I wouldn't have known [2613.55] Paul: Yeah, so um, it was over clear skies so you could actually see it if you looked up, but I didn't actually know it was there [2620.27] Paul: when I was having this conversation with some guys [2622.75] Paul: and um [2623.63] Paul: Just a realization that if you were out in the bush or something like that and this seemed to sort of do [2627.07] Paul: Patrols you wouldn't even [2628.67] Paul: Have any idea it was actually there. You wouldn't say it just wouldn't [2634.11] Curry: It's a shame some of the stuff i'd love to play with thermal camera, but to civilian people they're highly um [2642.51] Curry: Well you over in the uk you're not allowed to get more than what is it about five frames? [2648.67] Curry: A second or something. Oh, yeah, your detector can't be too much of a high resolution [2653.95] Curry: So you're really restricted on it because I was looking at that that new um, I say looking [2658.51] Curry: I saw the videos about that new dji quad which they're doing as a sort of rescue platform, which looks [2665.13] Curry: Astounding in the fact that you can have that uh, sort of telephoto lens and it's stable enough that you can zoom right in [2672.03] Curry: And there's there's no wobble on it. I thought that was that was a really a really nice piece of uh [2677.39] Curry: Protect they they managed to put out there and it was recording in thermal and everything else as well and all the cameras going [2683.95] Curry: really nice [2685.07] Thomas: So there's stuff that I feel like dji just always puts out bangers as far as cool drawings go [2690.43] Thomas: Like they just keep doing it. It's so impressive [2693.63] Tony: Another one in five days time, don't we? [2697.07] Tony: Mini three, I think [2699.07] Paul: Oh, okay [2700.35] Thomas: Yeah, I feel like right from the mavic like from right when they released the mavic as a response to karma [2706.19] Thomas: Like they're just yeah [2708.51] Thomas: They're just being relentless in their releases and they're just getting better and better [2713.79] Thomas: so [2715.55] Jack: I just love the fact that the karma fell out the sky [2720.35] Jack: You know, it was just like and then had to get recalled. It's just like what? [2726.03] Jack: But you can't make this [2728.19] Tony: Yeah, but that really broke gopro and I wouldn't like that to happen because I still use a lot of gopros [2735.31] Curry: It must have been that the best piece of marketing i'd ever seen though when [2740.59] Curry: basically [2741.79] Curry: dji let [2743.79] Curry: GoPro go first and then look we can fit this in our backpack and then the dji just strode out and took the mavic out of [2750.83] Curry: The pocket and then this is this is our new drone just just to demonstrate how how [2756.75] Curry: Ahead of the game they were just within like a week of release [2760.99] Stephen: Yeah, well some criticisms of the flight performance in the latest dji [2764.91] Stephen: People say in the arms are getting a bit flexi and it's a little bit wobbly and can't really do wind [2770.11] Stephen: I think they've got it entirely sewn up. Maybe skydio and others can get a foot in [2775.79] Tony: skydio is very impressive [2778.83] Thomas: It's so awesome. There's one I was watching. Uh, I think it was on iphondo's youtube channel [2784.59] Thomas: And it was like one that was the idea was you don't really control it [2789.63] Thomas: Oh, it's about to take off and it just follows you and it's got like the most insane collision avoidance where it's like able to like [2796.19] Thomas: Go around power lines the whole time. They don't say it's meant to but I found no test at it and it did [2802.03] Thomas: And it was just like the fact that the controls were literally just take off [2807.23] Thomas: And then it would just follow you and make up the shots as it goes [2810.91] Thomas: I thought that was just like wait, we're really at that stage now where you can just have this level of automation even in a camera [2816.99] Tony: Yeah, I think I think the skydio does that skydio too i've seen that [2822.83] Tony: Riding through mountain biking through trees and it's following them and going over and under. Yeah [2828.83] Thomas: Yeah, there might be the brain. I was talking about [2833.63] Stephen: The skydio big party trick is that really sophisticated? [2836.83] Stephen: obstacle avoidance where it can just go through an avenue of trees without dropping a beat, you know [2842.67] Stephen: And it'll track you like the trees aren't even there [2846.03] Stephen: Yeah, just keeping out of their way [2848.59] Thomas: That's actually it's amazing. Dude that could be a fun game hide and seek [2854.99] Jack: If you lose the lock then then you win have you have you guys done anything with mighty car mods? Yeah [2861.87] Jack: at least [2864.11] Thomas: I'd love to one day. So you've got to get on it big time [2869.31] Thomas: Yeah one day [2870.75] Paul: Well, they're up north they're in sydney. So they probably bought a good eight and a half hour drive from us [2875.63] Thomas: Eight hour drive from us. Yeah [2878.11] Thomas: Luckily one day they need they need now [2881.39] Jack: Yeah, well, they got reregistered that super [2884.43] Jack: So, you know, i'm sure there was no idea [2888.83] Thomas: I I don't I say I love that. I want to meet them one day and work with them. So [2893.47] Thomas: They seem like yeah a really fun [2895.47] Thomas: Group of guys and I think like I'm getting their production value now. It's getting so good. They're sure [2900.91] Jack: Maybe they own a whole workshop now [2903.71] Thomas: It's so good. It actually [2906.59] Thomas: Sort of just brings me so much joy of where they've like gone to and they're like to see [2912.75] Thomas: The quality of the projects and how they just incrementally improved everything and they've just [2917.87] Thomas: I can't believe how regularly they're uploading too [2920.75] Thomas: Like it's it's such an impressive job. They're doing [2924.27] Thomas: I'm not sure is is mood still doing music full time? [2927.47] Thomas: I think so [2930.11] Jack: That's my boy they they're so they both met they both do music [2934.83] Jack: Yeah [2937.95] Jack: You know because I I uploaded some studio stuff [2941.79] Jack: I'm still waiting for the lily drone [2944.59] Jack: What is that? Is that? Oh god, Vernon one word [2949.31] Jack: micro drone [2952.43] Jack: Glennon's going very quietly, isn't he someone someone messaged on [2957.63] Jack: That episode [2960.59] Jack: That they're still waiting [2962.59] Jack: You know, it's it's like it's like that ultimate backer guy [2967.95] Jack: you know [2969.55] Stephen: It's like we don't need [2972.27] Stephen: Was the whole shtick like we don't need sophisticated kind of flight control because we can fix it all with this amazing gimbal [2979.47] Stephen: Which is using brush motors and it's still going to be amazing because science and it just never quite [2986.75] Stephen: Never quite worked. Yeah [2989.87] Tony: I think we need to for that as well, didn't he? [2993.87] Tony: Backing wise [2996.83] Jack: People might need to go see Alan and yeah [3002.19] Stephen: Yeah, the whole plan on that seemed to be like sell it down the supermarket getting as many hands as possible [3007.87] Stephen: It sounded like they never quite made that [3011.23] Curry: Made that work. Well, I think they got it in zero hands as far as I can tell [3016.03] Stephen: Well, there were a couple of revisions weren't there but they uh didn't really work by the sound of it [3021.39] Stephen: Was it just the latest one? He delivered something, hadn't he with that micro drone concept and he was going back for a v2 or a v3 [3028.43] Curry: v4 this this is all right [3031.55] Curry: This is this is v4 and there was there was much annoyance that he raised another three million dollars or so [3038.91] Curry: And has still not delivered anything [3041.47] Curry: to a lot of backers [3044.43] Curry: Although I I feel it's kind of the dead horse flogging as far as talking about Vernon and the micro drone and the lack of [3053.23] Curry: Any trades for that one? [3055.07] Stephen: There were a lot of people who rode the first few years of [3058.51] Stephen: Indiegogo and stuff like that where people thought it was a marketplace instead of a betting shop [3064.27] Curry: People people still believe in in crowdfunding. Unfortunately, they they see the video and they're like, this is amazing [3070.27] Curry: we've got to get behind this one and [3072.75] Curry: despite of [3074.75] Curry: Of what a lot of people can say. I mean it's some things it you know, it it works people producing [3080.75] Curry: uh get the budget together to do like video games and [3085.47] Curry: art projects and things like that it can work when you see electronics and it's like [3090.27] Curry: This is a a render of what we want to do. What have we got here? [3094.19] Thomas: What's the symbol on the front or something? I knew this was gonna come. Yeah, my only crowdfunded thing that I bought [3101.23] Curry: Oh [3105.71] Thomas: Yeah, so mind you the irony is I like to never work on computers. No, don't say that out loud Siri [3113.55] Thomas: Because I never work on computers [3114.75] Thomas: I don't actually need this but the idea is it's on a bearing [3118.99] Thomas: and like when you from the pressure of the weight you literally just spin this [3123.55] Thomas: and like with momentum, it'll unscrew your computer screws and [3128.35] Thomas: Does it work for quads then? [3130.51] Thomas: No, not for quads because our stuff's pretty rough sort of the whole marketing [3135.55] Paul: Campaign for it was this is something that you don't need [3138.51] Paul: It's absolutely not necessary. Yeah, it's the great [3142.51] Paul: I do need it. I do [3145.71] Stephen: No serious tool comes in a combination of mirrored finishes like that, right? [3150.51] Curry: That's all engineers [3152.35] Curry: No, there's here's the rule for engineers like [3155.87] Curry: This is a tool if I don't have it then I must need it because I don't have it [3161.39] Thomas: Yeah, that's all right. That's beautiful thing ever like unscrewed [3164.27] Thomas: I think I unscrewed the black plate of a broken computer for fun [3167.07] Thomas: I was like I swept perfectly and then I put it away and I haven't touched it since [3171.55] Thomas: So how much did you I don't? [3173.95] Thomas: Oh, I don't remember I'd because I I bought one with a friend [3179.87] Thomas: Because it's like a friend and I we just group bought it together that way we got come under the one shipping [3183.79] Thomas: So I don't actually remember what it was because it was years ago [3186.11] Thomas: Because you know a card for coming goes because you buy something and i'll never go to plan it always is late [3190.59] Stephen: I mean at least you got something. It looks nice at the end. Yeah, well these electric screwdrivers [3196.03] Thomas: This guy was pretty popular and so I sort of trusted it was going to come through eventually [3200.75] Paul: Well, davin understood was involved in that too. Wasn't he? He's the one that recommended that wasn't it? [3204.59] Thomas: I think he's friends with the guy. I don't think he actually worked on it [3207.87] Stephen: davin belter would have had a rocket on to give it some more talk. Yeah, actually [3215.36] Jack: Oh no, because they they made the maker knife, you know the little i'd say [3223.44] Stephen: Not for sale any longer I tried to buy one of those looked awesome [3227.92] Jack: Yeah, so [3229.68] Jack: I know I got offered one. I said now i'm all right, then I should have been like yes. I will take one [3237.44] Jack: The trouble is is that I didn't know the legality of it around here because [3243.12] Jack: Essentially it could have been a considered a flick knife [3247.04] Stephen: But you don't need it at your bench though, don't you? [3249.84] Stephen: It's not like you're taking it to open sandwiches when you're out, isn't it? [3252.72] Jack: Mate, I can't even recycle properly without the police detaining me [3258.48] Stephen: You know, I was good. I was going to say that other electric screwdrivers have proven useless. I saw uh, [3264.16] Stephen: Pavel [3265.44] Stephen: For mine have renewed that [3267.6] Stephen: Review the wow stick which is supposed to be sourcing your dancing electric screwdriver [3272.72] Stephen: They look beautiful and came with about 300 different bits and the thing couldn't produce enough talk to undo an m3 [3280.48] Thomas: Screw so it was just i've got a i've got a really good one. It was like, um, it was given to me [3286.96] Thomas: from uh, someone in korea [3289.36] Thomas: Uh, there's a proper korean built little screwdriver. Nothing's been really good. I use that all the time [3293.76] Thomas: Uh, i'll go run down and grab that but i was gonna say that did you want to share your [3298.24] Thomas: Electric screwdriver thing that you got because you bought one [3301.2] Paul: Yeah, that's pretty well. That's more for really tiny tiny things. I can't that looks smaller [3306.08] Paul: It's good for taking apart gopros and things like that [3308.32] Paul: But you wouldn't use it for quads and it just hasn't got enough talk. Like you said, you know the main so it's a real [3314.54] Paul: Specialty tool if that kind of makes sense and it's it's tiny the one i've got i bought it through amazon [3320.96] Paul: Um, but yeah, i only use it if i'm doing something really really fine work i've used it. Um [3326.72] Paul: For gopros and things along those lines [3329.6] Paul: And thomas is going to get [3332.32] Paul: Here's a little you're going to get a little talk go into the fpv room [3336.48] Paul: So we've got a whole room [3339.12] Tony: Room nice. Oh my god. I've got an fpv cupboard. Yeah, we've got a whole room. You guys do what you mean? [3345.36] Jack: You got a wall tire [3348.0] Jack: several walls [3349.68] Jack: so [3351.84] Thomas: I use this tbs bits. Yeah [3354.96] Thomas: No way the eye fix it cool [3357.52] Tony: and then [3361.81] Thomas: The ball throw a bit bent on the cord. It's my practice cord. I guess all the abuse but [3366.53] Thomas: Yeah [3367.57] Jack: This one's really good there. This one's really really phone users [3372.21] Thomas: Sorry [3374.21] Jack: Yes [3376.69] Tony: That looks good [3378.13] Jack: Yeah, not to use that is it not a make on it in case anyone does want to purchase it [3385.57] Jack: Tries to read korean [3389.89] Thomas: Hyper made in korea, how do how do you spell that? [3394.53] Thomas: h y b r [3397.41] Stephen: And h y b r o [3399.97] Thomas: Yes [3402.21] Thomas: So this is amazing. It works flawlessly. I use it in my murder vaults [3407.33] Thomas: I just use a bit of thread lock that way it actually stays because the torque is [3410.77] Thomas: Probably a bit on the lower side compared to like if you did it by hand, but [3415.33] Thomas: A touch wood. I haven't but that's enough [3418.45] Paul: A little bit of a twist if you want at the end just to get the yeah just right [3422.61] Paul: I don't know how to see the thread. We all flicker the rest. Yes [3427.41] Paul: I actually use that tool a lot when i'm actually 3d printed stuff [3431.33] Paul: And I want to screw in m3 bolts into it [3434.45] Paul: Because it holds it perfectly like um [3437.01] Paul: You can hold it at right angles to what you're going into and it just quickly winds it straight in you get a nice [3443.25] Paul: Thread on the plastic as it sort of taps into it [3447.9] Paul: That's probably the only one that we use regularly [3450.38] Paul: And it's actually really good if you're building multiple quads, too [3453.58] Jack: Yeah, see to the rest [3455.74] Tony: Yeah, yeah speed it up [3458.7] Jack: No worries. Um, right. I think that's all we've got time for [3462.86] Jack: um [3463.74] Jack: I've got a bit of a cool call to action. Um [3468.22] Jack: the [3469.42] Jack: massive shout out to um [3472.46] Jack: To elle who is uh steven's partner? [3476.14] Jack: uh [3477.82] Jack: like [3479.34] Jack: We now have a working website [3483.74] Jack: So if you go to let's [3486.22] Jack: let's run out.com [3488.38] Jack: um [3490.46] Stephen: We had a rather stuck website and it's now working. Um [3494.38] Stephen: We also found a plugin where we could put our t-shirt shop up there as well [3498.38] Stephen: So you can go and find your let's run out merchandise [3502.46] Stephen: And there's also been talk of maybe putting some other merchandise there [3506.7] Stephen: We know jack's selling stickers, uh not available on the site yet [3510.78] Stephen: But uh, we were wondering if anyone would be interested in let's run out lipo straps [3516.86] Stephen: Standard strap size for a five inch with a metal buckle [3520.94] Stephen: rubberized strap velcro [3523.58] Stephen: All the usual premium stuff probably made by rjx with a let's drone out logo on it [3530.06] Stephen: So a nice solid strap if you are interested, let us know and how many you would be interested in [3536.94] Stephen: Um ping us on discord or any one of the social media things that we're on [3541.98] Stephen: Which you can also find out on let's run out.com which lists all the social media channels that we have [3547.5] Stephen: Should you be unsure as to where we are online? [3550.3] Stephen: Uh, and yeah, let us know if you'd like a battery strap or or even anything else that might be on your mind [3556.86] Jack: yep, if you [3558.3] Jack: uh, the other the other thing is [3561.26] Jack: uh, we really really need some ratings on our [3565.98] Jack: uh on our podcast, so if you can go to the [3570.3] Jack: apple podcasts [3572.78] Jack: Uh website for let's join out. I post posted a link in the uh in the chat [3578.22] Jack: And if you give us a rating that's uh a bit better because we've had a few [3583.5] Jack: Back in the day that have marked us lower [3587.26] Jack: Uh, so we're only four and a half stars. Let's run our social media army. Come on [3593.18] Stephen: Yes, give us some love bring us some love [3596.22] Jack: Bring us up to five stars [3598.78] Jack: Thank you guys, uh for everything. Um massive. Thank you to all our patreons. We've really recorded the [3607.5] Jack: The intro uh, we'll need to do a bonus podcast [3611.9] Jack: So we will do that [3613.66] Jack: But yeah, please leave us a review on [3617.0] Jack: itunes [3618.46] Jack: Uh, and you [3620.54] Tony: Thanks paul and tom for getting up early [3623.42] Tony: Thank you [3625.42] Thomas: Actually good practice for me because we're gonna start traveling for racing soon [3630.14] Thomas: And waking up before I am [3632.38] Thomas: Oh [3634.38] Tony: More racing videos coming from you guys as well. Yeah. Yes. We should have one this week actually [3639.98] Thomas: Can you show me what you raced? [3642.38] Thomas: Yeah, I raised [3645.74] Curry: This thing the dildo drum really cool. Yes. Oh my word. That does look crazy [3651.82] Curry: You broke it right up there [3654.46] Thomas: It's running [3659.66] Paul: It's really printed right, um, how many races do you think it survived? [3667.31] Paul: Okay, we've got one [3670.99] Paul: Okay, what was the number it was two wasn't it on or one and a half wasn't it really [3675.23] Thomas: They really got like two laps in the second race [3677.95] Stephen: It's got to be challenging to get that thing through a gate [3680.51] Stephen: You you can't really slow down with a design like that, right or it's just gonna pitch over [3684.75] Thomas: Uh, it's not too bad. I think the hard thing with it is [3687.55] Thomas: I'm you sort of get used to like the throttle being pretty sort of forgiving it [3691.71] Thomas: The upper end because obviously the quad gets momentum and drag, you know, you need a lot more throttle to go a little faster, right? [3698.43] Thomas: Um because this has like so much surface area front on [3702.59] Thomas: But then like the as you tilt over the actual surface area goes down the drag gets reduced [3707.71] Thomas: It makes the throttle feel like really linear like speed wise. So the relationship between the throttle and speed is more [3715.45] Thomas: Proportional [3716.83] Thomas: But that means that because i'm so used to at the upper end you can put these big throttle inputs in that does nothing [3723.07] Thomas: This is still really sensitive to throttle change [3725.87] Thomas: You have to treat the total a lot more carefully [3728.59] Thomas: Um, and especially when you cross over 45, it's almost like [3732.51] Thomas: A switch flicks and it feels almost like a turbo is kicking in and so I found myself like [3737.71] Thomas: Almost like going up the throttle and pulling off straight away and going up taking it back again [3741.87] Thomas: Just because I couldn't get used to sort of a position that I could hold [3745.15] Stephen: Are you still running a sensible camera or have you got like suicide camera? [3749.55] Stephen: Thoughts were you probably had like a 90 degree camera like it's looking straight out the front, but it's not quite as high [3755.95] Thomas: Yeah, because it the field of views on these cameras now, they're so wide. So this is a 1.7 mill lens there and [3762.43] Thomas: on the foxes, it's like a [3765.05] Thomas: 150 degrees field of view left to right and then I don't remember what is in the vertical maybe 120 or something [3770.67] Thomas: so it's like [3772.19] Thomas: It's a lot a lot. You can see a lot [3775.63] Thomas: And I think that's where even now like the bigger field of view [3779.31] Thomas: Uh goggles and that it almost like balances out where you still have detail [3784.83] Thomas: so [3786.11] Thomas: Yeah [3788.91] Jack: Right that that is all you've got time for unfortunately [3792.59] Jack: but hopefully [3793.79] Jack: We like you guys if you want to come on just ask and we [3797.55] Jack: Just email cole and he will make [3800.99] Jack: Give you a spot [3802.59] Jack: We will do that. Sure [3805.15] Jack: Awesome to be back. You're always welcome. We love you guys [3809.87] Jack: Like we appreciate you getting up so early for us [3813.87] Paul: like [3815.15] Paul: Love being on anyway, love to catch up. I hope we can get up to the uk and actually see you guys [3820.11] Jack: That was awesome [3821.55] Jack: nj sends his love by the way, I messaged him personally and I said [3826.51] Jack: But he's in denmark at the moment. So if there's any of you nj stalkers, that's where he is [3832.99] Jack: um [3834.11] Jack: But yeah, so you've been listening to let's throw now you've been joined by everyone's favorite curry kitchen [3840.59] Jack: Good night [3841.63] Jack: Everyone's favorite must-have steven [3844.43] Jack: Cheers. Bye [3845.95] Jack: My darling wife [3848.11] Jack: Bonjour [3850.43] Jack: Paul Vivata [3852.03] Jack: Thanks guys [3854.03] Jack: and [3854.91] Jack: thomas bit mother [3856.91] Jack: Thank you so much for joining us today [3859.87] Jack: And i've been bright until I fly. Thank you guys leave an itunes review [3865.23] Jack: Thank you. Good night [3867.47] Paul: Good night [3869.15] Paul: Telemetry lost