=== Let's Drone Out — Episode 354 ===
Title: LDO 354 - Videos Of The Law And More
Recorded: 2022-06-09
Hosts: Stephen "Belrik" Howell, Wayne "CurryKitten" Andrews, Koel "Koala" Anderson, Andrew "Frank" Hyams, Jack "Brightontillifly" Nash
Guest(s): (none recorded)
Total audience: 2,280
Platforms: YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sNrJbx_TQw); SoundCloud (http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/feeds.soundcloud.com/stream/1285066783-letsdroneout-ldo-354-videos-of-the-law-and-more.mp3)
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[0.0] Jack: Hello and you're listening to let's drone out and special thank you to our lovely patrons that help donate
[7.48] Jack: So that we could pay the editor to remove the swear words and silly things we say
[12.56] Jack: Massive. Thank you to call us campus art folk now Sam Dharma on with the show
[51.68] Curry: Hello everyone, welcome to let's turn out episode
[56.08] Curry: 354 no subtitle available as per yet. We're joined today by
[62.32] Curry: Stephen over here. Hello
[65.04] Curry: Cole down there
[66.8] Curry: Howdy, and me I'm carrying if you're wondering where Jack is Jack had to go and have some surgery scheduled surgery
[73.8] Curry: He's doing okay in in terms that he's like, you know alive and stuff and talking. Hopefully he'll be back soon
[80.36] Curry: Maybe not next week, but hopefully the week after Tony is
[84.32] Curry: Is away, but on interesting news he went to see fossil stuff HQ today
[89.64] Curry: So hopefully next week he might bring back some gossip and gubbins and stuff about what's going on. That'd be fun. I
[98.32] Curry: Wanted to start off this week if I may
[101.56] Curry: with a video that wind Davis has posted on to
[108.08] Curry: I
[109.12] Stephen: Let me post this the one that everyone should take a deep calming breath before watching or 10. I've just yeah
[115.48] Curry: I think yeah, you might need to it's about
[119.0] Curry: It's called arrested for a drone that wasn't flying
[122.56] Curry: Which is I'll describe it to you because we are an audio podcast at the end of the day
[128.12] Curry: This guy is in a sort of a city center and he's walking around with a Mavic controller with his phone in it
[133.76] Curry: Looking at his drone footage and someone comes up to him and says, oh you need to get the drone out this guy
[138.72] Curry: He's like, I'm not flying the drone wonders off and then the police come and come and ask him the same sort of question
[143.92] Curry: The problem is with this guy now
[145.52] Curry: He wasn't flying at the time quite why he decided to have his controller out and his phone in it
[150.4] Curry: To look at his footage is another question. But yeah, I've got to say I've watched a video through and
[157.0] Curry: I wanted to take my truncheon out and beat him to death because he was so obnoxious and
[162.72] Curry: Rude all he had to say to the police is I'm not flying. Look it's in my bag. I'm just
[169.44] Curry: This this is old footage from my phone. I don't I don't quite know the guy's problem. But essentially he was so gnarkey and
[177.28] Curry: Annoying to the police that they arrested him for all manner of things including
[184.16] Curry: Not giving these details. They were talking about breach of the the piece
[188.76] Curry: Yeah, and they were I mean
[191.92] Curry: He was he had a mavic mini and he was flying it earlier and he seems to think he's exempt from any law
[198.76] Curry: Because it's under 250 grams thus he should be able to fly over buildings
[203.4] Curry: Without a spotter and stuff and just do what he likes
[206.96] Koel: Well, yeah, and I you know, I didn't watch that as well and I saw that I guess it was based in Preston
[211.96] Koel: if I'm not mistaken, um
[214.32] Koel: but I'm not sure if
[216.16] Koel: like I'm not aware what the regulations are out there because I've obviously I'm in Canada, but
[221.2] Koel: And he was going on about how something around a lot along the lines of oh, it's sub 250 and there's no
[228.12] Koel: You know regulations here as of now, but you know
[233.0] Stephen: Who knows well the lack of training for the police. Unfortunately, they do suffer a bit because
[238.72] Stephen: training police to accurately be able to recite
[243.48] Stephen: CAA
[244.88] Stephen: Regulation isn't top of the priorities, you know people are getting stuff stolen and being stabbed and yeah
[250.0] Stephen: That's slightly more important
[251.32] Stephen: They get paperwork right for that than being able to recite exactly what the weight limit is on our drone and now far away
[256.32] Stephen: You're allowed to fly it and in which areas you could fly it. Yeah at the same time
[260.2] Stephen: I'm pretty sure that Preston city limits don't have a special jurisdiction that allows a
[266.24] Stephen: Different set of aviation law to take effect. Maybe it's the case. I don't live in Preston if you're all up there, I don't know
[274.64] Stephen: Jumping off buildings in wingsuits and doing God knows what landing helicopters in your front garden is wonderful
[281.28] Stephen: But I don't think that's the case
[284.0] Curry: So I think it was an interesting video, but I think I think got arrested
[288.24] Curry: For for basically not giving his details as far as I can tell if you're a suspect of a crime
[294.16] Curry: Then you are required to give your details and refusing to give your details
[297.92] Curry: You can be arrested for it. And that's that's why I actually got arrested for I
[301.64] Curry: Would have arrested him just for being a massive knob and being annoying
[305.8] Curry: But I don't think that's an offense that well, you can actually do anything
[309.4] Stephen: Well, yeah, luckily he was up there if I think if he was down London way
[312.64] Stephen: He might have accidentally fallen down a flight of stairs with help from the Met. So I think so
[317.48] Curry: I think a lot of us sometimes get worried about like, oh, you know, am I gonna be okay?
[322.16] Curry: I'm flying without a spotter in a field six kilometers away from anybody
[326.72] Curry: Um, I wouldn't worry. We've got people like this flying around cities and and
[331.36] Curry: Calling the the only redeeming factor I found in this video is it kept calling the police both Muppets and joeys and I haven't
[338.0] Curry: Joey
[338.88] Curry: For about 30 years and I think a lot of people will be remember what that means
[345.28] Curry: You're too young Steven. You wouldn't remember
[348.56] Stephen: I lay it on me
[350.32] Curry: It it refers it's it's very it's a very bad thing. It refers to a disabled person. It was once featured on blue peter, uk
[359.44] Curry: A uk children's tv program and then it spread around schools. Basically that if you didn't like something you say you're a joey
[367.28] Curry: um
[368.4] Curry: Because that's what children do
[370.08] Curry: but it's not politically correct now, but I think it shows the guy's age but
[375.12] Curry: That was uh, that was interesting
[377.12] Koel: Like my my my sort of take on it was because I I do watch a fair amount of videos whether it's you know
[383.28] Koel: Canada or u.s. Based where you know, you see these guys that are getting arrested or not necessarily even arrested
[389.76] Koel: But you know, they're pointing cameras at police or they're you know
[393.44] Koel: They're kind of like baiting police in a way
[395.6] Koel: But then they say oh give us your id and they so well i'm not required to give you my idea
[400.0] Koel: And it's basically just a pissing match of like who knows the law better and I mean
[405.36] Koel: at the end of the day, I feel like the police are going to probably win over a random guy and
[411.6] Koel: Usually in those types of situations your best bet is to be polite
[415.6] Koel: uh, you know
[417.92] Koel: Follow the instructions as officers are giving you I mean
[421.84] Koel: I guess I I can see the argument though in a way where it's like, oh
[425.44] Koel: It's sub 250 and I wasn't flying and my drone wasn't even in the sky at this moment
[430.24] Koel: So why am I in handcuffs and like it's kind of a messy the whole situation seemed quite messy
[437.28] Koel: But either way it could have gone a lot smoother had the guy been a little friendlier. Maybe I know
[443.12] Curry: I just I just I don't understand why someone's first
[447.66] Curry: reaction to someone checking with him is
[450.88] Curry: Anger and aggression and he was really quite
[454.64] Curry: Um
[456.8] Curry: He sort of tried to
[458.8] Curry: Sort of go away and start the drone and then literally with a drone control in his hand
[463.44] Curry: Tried to sort of quite so this is a guy who's quite
[466.96] Stephen: He's filming the whole thing and i'm slightly suspicious about anyone who goes into
[471.6] Stephen: Situation with the police and thinks yep, right beforehand. I'm going to check my iso levels
[476.16] Stephen: Make sure i've got enough disk space for this one and off we go
[479.6] Stephen: And you've got an agenda if you're doing that
[482.4] Koel: And the other thing too is like if he was merely
[485.84] Koel: Reviewing the footage from his mavic
[488.72] Koel: Doesn't even need to be connected to his controller to be doing that
[492.72] Koel: so
[494.0] Koel: So a he was recording
[496.56] Koel: B he probably knew that the police were kind of after him
[499.6] Koel: He had his mavic controller out or c whatever whatever letter i'm on now, but it's just so many things in a row
[506.88] Koel: It's just kind of like what are you doing, man? Like
[509.68] Koel: If you're gonna fly your drone do it and and do it and put it away and get the heck out of there or
[516.08] Koel: Or like i don't know. It's just it's weird
[519.04] Curry: Oh wind's giving us some updates. They're saying he was flying in an emergency incident area
[523.76] Curry: Ah, so he's got that earlier to look at someone mentioned about a fire. I didn't notice that there was flashing lights
[529.84] Curry: Yeah, yeah
[531.2] Curry: So obviously the emergency services were there
[533.92] Curry: He probably brought it in when they got there, but I don't know. It's like
[538.32] Curry: Why do you walk around with your controller? It does seem like he's just being a troll, doesn't it?
[542.96] Stephen: It's like yeah, come get me. There are better ways to get clickbait video than this. Yeah, this is yeah
[548.32] Stephen: Not helping anyone at all. I mean this go film a cat
[551.76] Curry: There's like turning your mavicon in your house and the police coming and raiding your house
[556.96] Curry: That's that's a bad thing. This I thought the police were really quite well controlled. I would have had the taser out
[563.2] Koel: Well
[565.2] Koel: My weird thing was too that I sort of thought about it was
[568.24] Koel: They they did seem to chuck him in handcuffs relatively quickly
[572.64] Koel: Like but he was kind of being a bit like belligerent or whatever the term may be, right?
[577.44] Koel: so but in the end, I think he ended up getting away because the constable or the
[583.66] Koel: Sergeant came over and then they I I think at the end he was free to go but
[589.28] Curry: I don't know. Yeah, and i'm sure he would have been a lot sooner if he'd have just opened his bag and said here's my drone
[596.72] Curry: I don't have to show you my ID. I'm not sure you anything
[600.0] Curry: Yeah, it's like yeah, and I did check it and I I think i'm right i'm not an expert on the law
[605.52] Curry: But if if you're a suspect in a crime
[608.64] Curry: Which he was and the police asked you for your details
[612.4] Curry: Then you have to give them the details else they can arrest you so they seemed
[617.12] Curry: Okay to do it
[618.72] Koel: Yeah
[620.24] Koel: It's one of those things where it's like
[624.14] Koel: Just use your head use your head a little more and if you're in a situation like that, you know
[630.14] Koel: Just use a few brain cells to you know, get through that situation
[636.14] Stephen: That applies to a lot of fpv and general RC situations
[639.58] Stephen: Just a bit of consideration and appreciate that people might not understand what you're doing
[644.62] Stephen: And give them a bit of leeway
[647.02] Stephen: And be patient
[648.62] Curry: I I think overall just just be nice and and friendly because that that goes a long way
[654.94] Curry: I mean, I couldn't imagine what these guys like if aki gets his order mixed up in mcdonald's or something. Geez
[661.34] Koel: Well, see like i'm I mean i've been in situations where i've been flying like not anywhere technically illegal, but maybe
[669.24] Koel: trespassing
[670.22] Koel: um
[671.34] Koel: So like you know, I I did have a security
[674.7] Koel: Car, you know show up say oh, you know what you up to over here and I said, oh, you know
[679.74] Koel: I'll be on my way kind of thing. You know, I was nice about it
[682.38] Koel: I wasn't gonna fight it and you know, nothing happened not a big deal
[685.98] Koel: But I mean if it's an emergency situation you're flying when you're not supposed to be around it
[691.34] Stephen: Just don't it's in the middle. It's in the middle of a city. Just think twice like
[696.38] Stephen: There's no way that that is a legal area to fly nowhere in about 500 meters of that should you be flying whatsoever
[704.14] Stephen: There's an emergency going on. You're in the middle of a city. There's people everywhere. There's roads. There's buildings
[710.78] Stephen: None of this says safe place to fly
[713.82] Koel: I guess a lot of I feel like a lot of people would aren't like I guess there's kind of like a divide within the
[718.7] Koel: within the community or within the hobby right like
[721.1] Koel: Some people would say oh, it's only a sub 250. It's uh, it's a mavic
[725.74] Koel: It's not gonna hurt anybody blah blah blah, but then on the other hand, it's like, you know, just use your brain like
[731.1] Stephen: Well, you know, I saw another clip of a guy who was maidening a quad
[736.22] Stephen: And he was maddening it down a residential street
[740.06] Stephen: And doing aggressive freestyle punch outs and one motor failed
[744.94] Stephen: And he was like, oh, yeah, I had to go and jump over a fence to get it
[748.06] Stephen: Oh, that's really annoying
[749.5] Stephen: But you're doing punch outs on like a full weight freestyle build over some someone you live near
[758.14] Stephen: Could have gone straight through their window. You clearly didn't have control. You hadn't tested it properly
[763.1] Stephen: Oh, it's really annoying because this happened. No, it's not you're the annoying one. You've just
[768.06] Stephen: You could easily have wrecked someone's day if if not done some serious damage
[772.22] Stephen: It's just putting some brain cells together and people oh, but there's nowhere near me. I can fly
[777.5] Stephen: Well, the answer there is don't fly, right?
[780.38] Stephen: There's nowhere near you can get to a safe place that isn't over someone else's property then don't fly
[786.46] Koel: well, see for me, I live right downtown, Toronto and
[790.7] Koel: Like I just I moved here within the last within the last, you know, six months to a year kind of thing and
[796.14] Koel: People that are from where I used to live
[798.62] Koel: You know that was like, oh, yeah, send it downtown. Send your five-inch freestyle quad downtown
[803.58] Koel: Just just send it man. Like just do it. You'll be fine. I'm just like
[809.18] Koel: I don't know about that because
[811.18] Koel: I don't want to put anybody in danger. I don't want to be I don't want to put myself in
[815.74] Koel: You know trouble and i'm also in the middle of a million flight paths right now. So
[820.7] Koel: You know, it's just yeah
[823.18] Stephen: Maybe if you're going to do low-low flight, maybe if they close the streets, maybe if there's some kind of
[828.3] Stephen: Event where the streets are all locked down and you're not going to accidentally
[832.62] Stephen: Scare a driver or something. But yeah, there's almost no situations when that's a good idea
[837.82] Curry: Yeah, I think I think the majority of people know that
[840.86] Curry: A quad at any time can just turn into a brick and drop out the sky therefore
[845.02] Curry: Don't don't be over people
[846.22] Stephen: But if you wouldn't throw bricks in random directions in that area, then don't fly there would be a good guideline
[853.58] Stephen: Pretty much. It's not safe to go and lob bricks around then it's not safe to go fly your drone around and rip balls
[860.3] Stephen: indeed
[861.58] Curry: Well, I touched on using tasers there
[865.1] Curry: Which is an interesting segue into another story which steven
[869.1] Curry: Found would you like to would you like to talk about it?
[871.98] Stephen: We've got a very very unusual story here and it it's mainly an ethical one
[877.42] Stephen: The ethical question is should we electrocute children?
[881.1] Stephen: Um, there's there's lots of pros and cons for electrocuting children
[885.5] Stephen: Uh, i'm not a parent myself
[887.1] Stephen: But I understand many of them have wanted to electrocute their children and that's all fine and well
[891.58] Stephen: Yeah, like there's plenty of of childhood games that are based around accidental electrocution. That's okay
[897.26] Stephen: But here we have an excellent example of a plan to keep children safe
[903.18] Stephen: Just prevent harm from coming to children
[906.14] Stephen: by
[907.1] Stephen: tasering
[908.22] Stephen: people in the school
[909.74] Stephen: Probably not the children
[911.34] Stephen: But as the majority of people in the school are children one has to admit that the odds of tasering a child pretty high
[919.1] Stephen: Nonetheless, this didn't stop axon the company who?
[923.9] Stephen: Uh formerly known as taser from trying to launch a taser drone
[929.66] Stephen: And they were initially going to put this out for law enforcement because quite reasonably if it's dangerous for a police officer to go into
[936.06] Stephen: a hostile situation
[938.62] Stephen: They already use tasers. Why not just go and tase things?
[942.7] Stephen: Okay, that's that's maybe if all the people in a building have firearms and they're holed up and you can't get access to them
[949.82] Stephen: And they're all adults. Anyway, that might be a safe thing to do
[953.42] Stephen: but
[954.3] Stephen: The idea here was to take a taser and fly it around schools in case someone had a gun
[960.78] Stephen: and
[962.7] Stephen: You know, you might get lucky in taser a criminal
[965.98] Stephen: You might taser a child
[968.3] Stephen: But you know, you might get lucky in taser the right person and this was
[972.54] Stephen: The idea that they had um an idea which was actually
[977.88] Stephen: vetoed by the company's internal ethics board
[982.06] Stephen: As being a ludicrous idea
[984.7] Curry: Um, they only just to be clear. This is an ethics board of a company that produces tasers
[990.54] Curry: Yeah, so it's bars pretty low
[993.42] Stephen: Yeah, so they're like hey, how can we sell more tasers?
[997.1] Stephen: Well, we've got to do it the right way by tasering the bad people and their ethics board is like this is
[1002.3] Stephen: A terrible idea waiting to happen
[1003.82] Stephen: You've got a school of maybe several thousand children with a handful of adults in it
[1009.02] Stephen: And you're going to fly around and be like yeah, that's this kind of big person
[1012.38] Stephen: They're probably the one with the gun. Let's tase them and you hope that you know
[1016.94] Stephen: That wasn't a child and they didn't have health problems and you didn't just kill someone's kid by tasering them
[1023.26] Stephen: or
[1023.98] Stephen: tase them and then they fall down a flight of stairs and break their neck or any one of a
[1028.3] Stephen: Million fun things that could happen with high voltage and people
[1032.46] Stephen: um
[1033.66] Stephen: So yeah better have the own ethics board rejected it and the company then of course did the sensible thing
[1039.82] Stephen: And launched it anyway
[1041.34] Stephen: Because that's what you do when your own internal ethics board says this is a publicity disaster waiting to happen
[1046.78] Stephen: You should never do this. So then the company's ethics board
[1050.46] Stephen: uh resigned
[1052.86] Stephen: nine people on the company ethics board resigned
[1056.46] Stephen: And they uh tried to backpedal
[1059.42] Stephen: Like a kind of indiana jones hanging off a cliff backpedaling furiously at this point
[1065.02] Stephen: It's just it's just an amazing thing that
[1067.66] Stephen: someone
[1069.02] Stephen: Somewhere thought this was the way to deal with
[1071.9] Stephen: Guns in schools. It's to go and fire tasers around the school. It's
[1076.86] Curry: Well, i'm afraid in the u.s
[1077.98] Curry: Because i'm a privilege to ever reduce the gun numbers is it it's always to do something else
[1082.94] Curry: Good news as soon as banggood have a copy of it. I'll be reviewing it
[1086.7] Curry: Man, my neighborhood finding neighbors and it tastes
[1090.14] Koel: Finding i can't believe that
[1095.84] Stephen: What's the emergency school shootings are a crisis I agree
[1099.36] Stephen: But axon on its own best timeline isn't going to come up with anything for a couple of years
[1103.52] Stephen: Why was it necessary to jump ahead like this? That was the company's own spokesman
[1108.0] Stephen: And I was just like well
[1110.24] Stephen: Any press is good press
[1112.4] Koel: If they do if I mean it better have like a 4k
[1116.14] Koel: Fpv stream or at least like a high res so you can actually make out who you're trying to get after
[1121.92] Koel: And the operator better be good at operating the damn thing
[1125.36] Stephen: Because well, they're not going to have like
[1127.6] Stephen: Evan turner or some guy are there it's just going to be like joe schmoe on the controls like
[1132.56] Stephen: Bumping into walls and trying not to get stuck in on the ceiling. He'll just be like glued onto the ceiling
[1137.6] Stephen: I'm sure after the first corridor
[1140.48] Stephen: Oh jeez
[1142.56] Curry: Yeah, I think I think it'd be good if it was completely autonomous and then it would just have to try and determine who it was
[1148.24] Curry: Tasering
[1149.44] Koel: Yeah, we just need ai to determine. Oh that face. That's a bad guy
[1154.4] Stephen: Run it you have 10 seconds to comply
[1159.92] Curry: I feel it would be much better if you get one of those boston dynamic
[1164.08] Curry: Proper walkie robots because they're they are frightening
[1167.6] Curry: Just without a gun. They could just splat somebody completely
[1171.92] Curry: Send them into a hostage situation. It'd just be like robocop coming in just
[1176.56] Koel: Oh like and even like one of those robo dogs and those robo dogs should just have a taser on them or something
[1181.12] Curry: Yeah, and spots can open doors as well, which is something like it's a bit like we used to like
[1186.64] Curry: Um in dr. Who oh no Daleks are coming quick go upstairs. They'll never get us there and it's a bit like
[1192.64] Curry: Yeah, send the drone in. Oh, hang on. We've come up against the door. What are we doing now?
[1197.2] Curry: I think we're thinking too small about this guys
[1200.0] Stephen: thing
[1200.96] Stephen: Just just put a large conventional warhead at the center of every school and then if there's a shooting incident
[1208.32] Stephen: You don't negotiate with terrorists. Just blow up the school just done
[1214.56] Koel: Yeah, I don't know if that would go over too well, but uh
[1219.92] Stephen: When was the first school shooting or murder we should say because it is murder
[1224.24] Stephen: It's got to be 20 years ago now, hasn't it?
[1227.6] Curry: It's been in the press. It's been an ever progressing thing in south park
[1231.68] Curry: Now if you've ever watched the south park, I love that
[1234.32] Curry: The shootings are going off non-stop in the schools
[1236.8] Curry: They're just wondering through the halls and there's bullets
[1239.6] Stephen: Only one of the parents actually notices that they're happening. Everyone else is just like yeah, that's normal. Yeah another day in the life
[1246.08] Stephen: Yeah, yeah, exactly
[1248.48] Stephen: Very hope
[1249.84] Stephen: on slightly more positive news
[1252.8] Stephen: There looks like there's a good trend
[1255.44] Stephen: The global freight index is doing nice things
[1258.32] Stephen: This is the index that tracks how much it costs stuff from china to reach you and canada us in europe
[1266.16] Stephen: Mainland us and uh, obviously a couple of years back things were going completely down the toilet
[1272.96] Stephen: It looks like the time for a shipping container to get from china
[1277.68] Stephen: To the us or china to us roughly the same pretty much doubled
[1281.92] Stephen: And now it's coming back down
[1283.84] Stephen: And as that time is reduced so is the cost so we should be seeing faster deliveries and cheaper deliveries and generally
[1291.52] Stephen: Easing up of the flow of electronics and stuff from china, which is nice to see
[1296.72] Stephen: It's good
[1298.4] Koel: Yeah, yeah, it's been well, it's been kind of a
[1302.96] Koel: You know, uh, shit storm for the last however of a while right so
[1308.48] Koel: Oh
[1310.48] Curry: Yeah, it fixes the logistics problem does it fix all the other electronics chip shortages which seems to be the problem
[1317.84] Koel: Yeah
[1319.6] Curry: Tiny graph anything at all. That is small and big and big and big and big and big trend
[1325.76] Stephen: Yeah, I wrote that zombie statistic for starters. It was pretty much in in the toilet through 19 and 20
[1332.88] Stephen: Uh, I was hanging in actually and then it kind of shot up here
[1336.48] Stephen: As down
[1338.24] Stephen: Coming down again. That that's the cost by the way
[1341.04] Stephen: That's the cost index but the other important one is
[1345.2] Stephen: The actual time taken for things to get from a to b another tiny graph
[1349.28] Stephen: And so you can see that the time taken has been kind of peaking going down peaking going down
[1354.4] Stephen: It looks like it's reached this kind of mammoth peak and it's finally sliding off this peak
[1360.24] Stephen: Uh, it was normally taking something like 40 weeks
[1363.84] Stephen: Or 40 days, I guess this would be to get from china, uh to the us
[1369.28] Stephen: And it hit peaks peaks of 56 and 67 and it was up to over 80 days
[1374.8] Stephen: And now we're down in the low 70s
[1377.12] Stephen: The current month just passed down to 73 days from a peak of 82 days
[1382.16] Stephen: So it's it's starting to slide down again
[1384.48] Stephen: Largely because the ports are once again passing traffic and so on
[1388.72] Curry: Do people find themselves ordering stuff from china that much these days or have we sort of transitioned a bit to
[1394.96] Curry: I I kind of know if there's anything local
[1399.44] Curry: By local, I mean in the uk
[1400.88] Curry: I would rather spend extra to get that now
[1403.04] Curry: It used to be the fact that like you could go to banggood
[1405.28] Curry: And it was free shipping and it would be much cheaper and it was really worth like a couple of weeks wait these days
[1410.64] Curry: It's like shipping costs money. It's not necessarily cheaper at all. And uh, oh, I just searched for somewhere in the uk together
[1417.36] Curry: I don't know if that's what what's your experience like in canada cole? Is it getting everything local there or are you still
[1423.68] Koel: Shopping in china for the most part. I pretty much only ever ordered stuff locally. Uh, I did order like, um,
[1431.44] Koel: a couple things off of um
[1434.0] Koel: off banggood, it was like a certain screen protectors for like the run cam that I couldn't get locally or
[1441.04] Koel: um, like i've never really bought anything major from like directly from china
[1445.68] Koel: As much as I can avoid it. I will just because luckily now where I live in toronto. I can actually
[1451.04] Koel: Drive for maybe about 20 minutes and go directly to a rotor store, which is kind of cool
[1456.32] Curry: Oh, that's cool
[1457.44] Curry: Yeah, there's a last time I saw a physical hobby store in in the uk. It's like years ago, man. They've all gone
[1464.08] Curry: Well, so we got a lot of random chan connelli express
[1467.12] Koel: Oh, yeah. Yeah, we've got rotor geeks. We've got rotor quest
[1471.68] Koel: we've got um
[1476.82] Koel: Uh rotorev those are like the three that are basically within the toronto area and
[1481.46] Koel: I mean if I can either go there or order from them i'll do it, you know
[1486.66] Koel: More so than having to wait a couple weeks, I guess. Yeah
[1491.6] Koel: and the prices seem to be
[1493.44] Koel: You know relatively
[1495.04] Koel: Fine, like and I don't have to worry about imports or anything. So
[1498.56] Stephen: Yeah, the prices are okay
[1499.92] Stephen: The thing that's really annoying me is I see something released and then I can't buy it for
[1506.16] Stephen: Six weeks or something afterwards like oh, this is a new motor size that's come out. That'd be handy
[1510.8] Stephen: I'll get that. Oh, there's a new flight controller that's come out. Oh, I'll get that or there's new gimbals that are coming out
[1516.16] Stephen: I'll get that and it's like
[1518.64] Stephen: Okay. Now I wait all the reviewers have them so they're clearly out there and then it's six weeks months and a half later
[1524.64] Stephen: And then they get them. Yeah, it used to be that you you'd see the reviews come out like on a wednesday
[1529.68] Stephen: And you could order them on friday
[1531.68] Stephen: Not so much anymore
[1533.28] Stephen: for
[1534.88] Stephen: Yeah, I wanted to build a little silly 2s drone. This is uh, one of a little two inch that's modeled after a big drone
[1542.48] Stephen: um
[1543.52] Stephen: Sub 250 gram fpv. Thank you very much lovely little frame, but I wanted the flight controller for this
[1549.28] Stephen: It's taken something like
[1551.6] Stephen: Over two months to get this flight controller
[1554.56] Stephen: An all-in-one board with express lrs and uh 2s aio
[1561.28] Stephen: It's been available for ages it's part of the mobula six
[1565.36] Stephen: but
[1567.12] Stephen: Dead slow
[1568.4] Stephen: really dead slow
[1570.64] Koel: So it looks like uh drone drone droid said sn hobbies in vancouver has the best price in can i've never actually heard of sn hobbies before
[1577.36] Koel: So thank you for that. I will definitely uh put that on the check or on the note list there
[1583.2] Stephen: While we're talking about china. I actually had this order open in banggood and I
[1588.08] Stephen: left it from april until about last week
[1592.16] Stephen: And then I canceled it and uh, I bought it from a uk place
[1596.08] Stephen: It was actually five pounds cheaper to buy in the uk than it was from banggood, which is a reversal of what we come to expect
[1603.2] Curry: Well, the only the only exception here is caroline's bought a new talent rebel
[1608.0] Curry: Order from banggood, which looks a lot like i've just looked it up. It looks like all the other nano talents
[1612.72] Curry: I'm not sure if there's a difference there maybe a thousand millimeter wingspan. Maybe that's it
[1617.92] Curry: It's bigger a nice nice looking fixed-wing plane though. I like a tanner
[1622.64] Curry: But yeah, I guess support your local support your local hobbies
[1625.6] Curry: If you if you've still got a store near you then keep them in business and there's there's there's not many physical stores
[1630.88] Curry: But there's at least you know, local web stores that are pretty competitive these days with china
[1634.96] Curry: I think we've all noticed that recently that's there's no big saving
[1639.04] Stephen: Yeah
[1640.72] Stephen: How much tension do you put on your gimbals cole?
[1644.88] Koel: um
[1646.08] Koel: so
[1647.52] Koel: I I mean i've been fiddling around with it a little bit here and there because I wasn't really
[1653.6] Koel: When I first started out, obviously like I got a brand new radio. They were relatively tight
[1659.28] Koel: Um, so I went in and I loosened it up to see how it felt
[1663.36] Koel: And then I didn't really like it too loosey-goosey. So I I tightened them back up
[1667.92] Koel: I I do prefer actually a tighter
[1670.8] Koel: Tighter gimbals just for some reason it I don't know what it is, but it just feels better for me
[1676.96] Koel: um
[1678.0] Koel: Just kind of go in and you know tighten the the tension on them and that's the right term
[1682.8] Koel: But yeah, I don't know. I I do prefer it to be tighter like especially on the throttle
[1686.64] Koel: I like to like I don't like the throttle to be so loose that it just kind of flies off by itself
[1691.52] Koel: I do like to sort of feel a bit of resistance with it for some reason
[1696.88] Stephen: Right, so
[1697.76] Stephen: uh
[1698.8] Stephen: Had a post from fail safe. Uh, he's been on the show before talking about bits and pieces
[1704.16] Stephen: He had to change the screw on his gimbal
[1707.2] Stephen: because
[1708.24] Stephen: It seems he actually uh
[1710.88] Stephen: He managed to snap it clean off
[1713.04] Koel: Oh no, um
[1714.96] Stephen: So
[1715.92] Stephen: He clearly likes a lot of tension on his gimbals. Uh, I'm quite impressed by that
[1720.24] Stephen: I don't I've never heard anyone actually tensioning the gimbal so much that they scrap they snap the screw in half. That's
[1726.96] Stephen: That's impressive. That's well done fail safe. Well done
[1730.96] Curry: I was learning on that radio, but I need to feel
[1734.48] Curry: a slight ratchet
[1736.56] Curry: Oh, okay super easy to move but I can just feel like there's a there's a little bit behind it
[1741.44] Koel: If you know what I mean, you like that little clickiness, eh?
[1745.04] Koel: So I I experimented with that as well, uh, because I was
[1748.08] Koel: Like the thing is I feel like when they're too loose it might get out of place
[1753.04] Koel: You know say say i'm really locked in on my throttle
[1755.68] Koel: Well, if it's too loose, I might you know
[1757.28] Koel: Go a little too much or a little too less and then either run into something or or overshoot kind of thing
[1763.44] Koel: I did experiment with the ratchet and just a slight bit of ratchet on it
[1767.76] Koel: and
[1768.96] Koel: I thought I liked it, but I don't know I I reverted back to the just the smooth tension
[1774.88] Koel: opposed to the throttle or the the ratchet I should say
[1777.6] UNKNOWN: I
[1778.96] Stephen: Flown someone's radio with a ratchet on and I genuinely thought that the gimbal was broken
[1783.76] Stephen: I was like, oh you need to replace these gimbals. They're worn out man. They're completely screwed. It's like, oh no, they're supposed to be like that
[1791.36] Koel: Well, actually there was a a group of guys that I've flown with before and um
[1796.72] Koel: You know one of the one of the guys was like newer to flying and whatnot
[1800.88] Koel: he didn't even know that
[1803.76] Koel: Basically, he didn't know that there was such thing as not ratcheted because his radio came ratcheted and
[1810.72] Koel: He didn't know anything else. So
[1812.72] Koel: Basically the one day we were flying my other buddy like basically took apart his radio and you know
[1817.92] Koel: Fixed his gimbal and took the ratchet off and he was like, whoa
[1821.36] Koel: He's like this is a whole new world
[1824.88] Stephen: Yeah, I I find I these days when i'm trying to hold those lines
[1829.12] Stephen: I I kind of just lift my hands off the sticks a little bit and just be like, yeah, that's nice
[1834.0] Stephen: I'll just leave it there for a second and let it carve through the air a bit and to try and
[1838.8] Stephen: Avoid that feeling of constant adjustment that you get when you've just got a nice angle and you don't want it to wobble
[1844.56] Curry: Yeah
[1846.0] Curry: People are calling the ratchet idea very old school, which is which is pretty much me
[1849.68] Curry: But i've got i've got a lot of radios some are just smooth movement
[1853.12] Curry: But some and I know what you say about ratcheting
[1855.76] Curry: It's like literally it's like if I go to that
[1857.84] Curry: You can just move it that one position and you know
[1859.92] Curry: It's going to act very slightly differently than the previous position and you can just leave it there. But go ahead
[1864.48] Curry: Let's let's see the radio steven
[1867.12] Stephen: So i've got the worst radio in the world
[1870.32] Stephen: With two gimbals that are each worth more than the radio
[1875.2] Stephen: I i've got the yellow rubber ducky radio for those on audio the t8 sg v2
[1882.4] Stephen: This is the plus version and it came with hall sensor gimbals, which I thought were jolly fancy
[1887.52] Stephen: It's running express lrs in the back
[1890.48] Stephen: um, but what i've done is i've put the cnc alloy radio master ago
[1896.88] Stephen: one mini gimbals in there, um, which are meant to go into a zero
[1901.92] Stephen: but I thought oh what the heck and I just shoved them in there and uh
[1906.72] Stephen: Yeah off to the races which is quite a laugh. So yeah, the gimbals are probably worth
[1911.76] Stephen: Each more than the radio. I had to carve up the jr bay a little bit because the uh tensioners are on the other side
[1917.68] Stephen: So there's a couple of slits cut in the jr bay for ease of that and I can actually adjust the gimbal tension
[1923.6] Stephen: Uh without taking the radio apart, so you you could call that a feature if you're being generous
[1927.84] Stephen: um, yeah, that's uh
[1930.64] Stephen: My old old radio that I learned on and uh, it's now got a shot of uh
[1935.68] Stephen: Fancy alloy gimbals as well as being able to run espresso arrest at a thousand hertz when they finally dropped that
[1944.24] Koel: I really like the uh, I really like the school bus yellow color of it
[1948.8] Stephen: Yeah, it's so stupid
[1950.56] Stephen: It's also got an OLED screen
[1952.96] Stephen: So, let me just turn this on the screen is oled and it's yellow on black
[1957.76] Stephen: Which is kind of unusual
[1960.16] Curry: Just to go. I I think shady's coming with definition of more money than cent. I think
[1965.52] Curry: Stephen gets very bored and he has to he has to go and buy stuff
[1969.58] Curry: Relentlessly all month and then he's like what shall I do tonight?
[1972.56] Curry: I know i'll put this into this and here we come out with these strange little bills that he gets
[1978.64] Stephen: I just love the radio. I mean i've got a tx 16 and people say our best radio f's and
[1984.64] Stephen: I just don't enjoy using it nearly as much as I enjoy that stupid yellow rubber ducky of a radio
[1990.4] Stephen: Just fun to use
[1993.04] Koel: I would like I would use it just based on the color. It looks great
[1997.44] Stephen: Yeah, I it just makes me chuckle every time I switch it on it's just such a goofy looking little radio
[2004.08] Stephen: But it works a treat
[2008.51] Koel: Yeah, i've never really um
[2010.75] Koel: I use the tango too and I like that form factor
[2013.87] Koel: I've I've tried the tx 16s and the some of the other radio master ones before but
[2019.07] Koel: I don't know. I just
[2020.51] Koel: I feel like it's too big in my hands and I have to really reach to get to a switch or
[2026.67] Koel: there's a lot more throw on the gimbals compared to my tango gimbals and
[2032.19] Koel: I almost need to be sitting down with it in my lap to be comfortable with it or have like a really heavy duty lanyard that will
[2038.59] Stephen: You know, so yeah, I went for the giant lanyard. I think i've showed people before
[2042.83] Stephen: I've got this guitar strap nice thick strap that I converted to put on there to make it a bit more comfortable
[2047.71] Stephen: So it doesn't, you know press down on the neck too much with a thin strap
[2051.87] Stephen: Yeah, but you look at inside the tx 16s and i've i've opened mine up
[2056.59] Stephen: To put a bluetooth receiver in there and there's there's not a lot in there
[2060.03] Stephen: It's a big shell of a radio, but you've got
[2063.31] Stephen: I think an extra pair of switches over the little t8 sg
[2068.43] Stephen: But not a lot color screen. Sure. I guess not really using color screen
[2074.75] Stephen: It's just I don't I don't find that there's enough to persuade me to use the
[2080.03] Stephen: Tx 16s. I think in time there will be but the software hasn't caught up with what that radio can do
[2086.19] Stephen: There's no real use for the color screen
[2089.87] Koel: I mean, I have a I have a tango too. The screen is only like barely an inch squared, right?
[2095.87] Koel: And it does everything I needed to do. I mean as long as it arms and turtle modes and
[2102.35] Koel: uh
[2103.47] Koel: You know air modes or whatever you want to say like it's it's perfect
[2107.71] Stephen: Yeah, I have problems
[2109.63] Stephen: Yeah, those both work just fine. Uh
[2111.95] Curry: I mean this this is the thing as far as screen goes there's literally it's setting up your model
[2119.47] Curry: And then of course when you're flying goggles are on so it's it's no good having pretty pictures on the screen. Yeah, it's it's only
[2126.59] Curry: useful if you need to change something and then
[2129.15] Curry: I'm worried more about seeing it in the sunlight or
[2132.27] Curry: If i've lost it and i'm looking at my I might look at my gps telemetry or my signal strength to like where's where's my quad
[2138.19] Curry: Gone, uh, and that's about it. Other than that the screen might as well be off all the time
[2142.83] Stephen: Yeah, I must admit I have vbat on there kind of have like uh
[2146.75] Stephen: Current statistics so I can just look at the end of the flight and because I don't get the screen at the end with dji
[2153.15] Stephen: So I have like my low battery and high current
[2156.59] Stephen: Watermarks, just so I could check them on the radio
[2159.55] Stephen: But other than that not really anything
[2162.99] Frank: This episode was recorded in front of a live online audience downloaded and edited to make sense when it played audio only
[2169.71] Frank: Censored to please the itunes people hosted on the internet forwarded through to your podcast provider
[2174.57] Frank: Downloaded playing on your device and is now playing in your ears all thanks to our patreons
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[2183.71] Frank: Find out more at patreon.com
[2186.75] Frank: Let's drone out
[2188.67] Koel: Yeah, actually, uh, I did have to set up my um, so my first quad didn't have osd
[2194.51] Koel: It didn't even have like an osd board or anything on it
[2197.39] Koel: uh, so
[2198.99] Koel: My camera my my runcam was basically I had to get vbat from
[2205.31] Koel: Like the pdb I guess
[2207.55] Koel: Uh, so I had to put a switch
[2210.03] Koel: I had to basically do a logical switch where my radio would tell me what my okay
[2214.75] Koel: So basically the the camera I crashed and then the the osd with the vbat stopped updating
[2220.99] Koel: So I had to assign a logical switch in order for my my um, my radio would tell me my battery level
[2228.19] Koel: It would just call out my battery level to me. So
[2231.07] Koel: That's one of my other uses on the tango. Yeah, so that was weird
[2235.63] Stephen: That's got to be a bit terrifying when you're trying to freestyle
[2238.59] Stephen: Like can I pull out of this or not?
[2240.59] Koel: It was it was and I was I was kind of like, okay
[2243.63] Koel: I'm not gonna fly until I can see what my battery level is in my goggles
[2247.95] Koel: But then I was like, well, I still want to fly. Okay, I can press a button
[2252.59] Koel: although me pressing that button did actually cause me some crashes because I was in this like, um
[2259.47] Koel: Basically, it was like a
[2261.47] Koel: Train station that wasn't fully like functional yet and it was like the parking garage area
[2267.07] Koel: Well, I like I did a little trick or whatever punched out and tried to like recover
[2271.31] Koel: But I wanted to check my battery level. Well
[2274.67] Koel: That split second of me not paying attention to my sticks and more paying attention to pressing that button. I
[2280.75] Koel: Lost a bit of control and crashed into a railing and I was like, oh great
[2284.83] Stephen: So but I've since mitigated that issue and I now have you since have a flight controller with an OSD now or are you still
[2291.71] Koel: Well, I have I got I have a wolf pdb that tells me yeah
[2297.95] Curry: Sounds like someone must be using kiss
[2300.67] Koel: Yeah, yeah
[2302.91] Curry: I'm a kiss boy
[2305.71] Curry: I've got
[2307.15] Curry: One of my slight issues that I've only done about four times now is I don't fly with air mode always on
[2314.59] Curry: Because I I want to have air mode off when I come down to landing because I want to drop throttle and have the prop stop
[2319.71] Curry: and
[2320.59] Curry: About four or five times I've clicked the wrong switch and disarmed it midair instead of bringing it out of air mode
[2326.19] Curry: It's just like clunk
[2328.59] Curry: Wrong button. Okay. Yeah, I should go and sort that out
[2333.31] Koel: Yeah, that's uh
[2335.87] Koel: It's not what it's not fun. Yeah, especially if you're like 10 feet off the air and you come crashing down
[2341.23] Curry: Yeah, yeah, I mean normally I fly just in the field and there's reasonably long grass so it's not usually a problem but
[2347.39] Curry: It can be annoying the worst the worst disarm thing I had midair
[2351.63] Curry: Is when this is how old it was. I used to do stick arming back in the day
[2355.79] Curry: uh
[2356.43] Curry: which was right stick down to the left stick down to left and something to do with that one and
[2362.27] Curry: what I did I
[2363.87] Stephen: I that's why I know when you do trippy spins
[2366.67] Curry: I flipped myself down
[2368.83] Curry: and I lowered the throttle and and I was just letting it sort of fall and
[2374.91] Curry: basically, it's like
[2376.75] Curry: Oh, i'm disarming because you've you've put your throttle down for this long
[2380.75] Curry: you must you must have landed and it was back in the day when
[2384.91] Curry: You didn't you had to be like
[2387.71] Curry: 10 degrees to level to arm so I couldn't rearm it and I just
[2392.19] Curry: Watched it for about 15 seconds fall down and down and down and down and splat and it broke a camera
[2399.07] Curry: That was a weird one
[2401.55] Stephen: Yeah, I remember the panicked like fr sky no rx message like what why how quick flick flick flick flick flick
[2410.19] Stephen: Yeah, throttle down disarm arm
[2412.83] Stephen: throttle up
[2414.91] Curry: It's not fun
[2416.67] Koel: Well, I remember when I first started out. Um, like my first couple flights I would like
[2421.63] Koel: I would freak out and then I would have this instinct to disarm like immediately even though I was like 50 feet in the air
[2429.31] Koel: And I would always try to recover from a disarm in the air and it just never worked. I just I
[2435.55] Koel: Never like I would try to rearm make sure that you know, the throttle's all the way down, but I just come crashing right down
[2444.27] Curry: It's it's interesting enough
[2445.55] Curry: Just I don't know if you guys have tried it just if you fly without air mode and you're just flying along
[2450.75] Curry: And you put the throttle down how quickly your quad will just spin completely out of control
[2456.35] Curry: and uh and and start spiraling and
[2459.95] Curry: Re-frottling quickly is it is interesting just to yeah
[2463.31] Curry: Just to let it fail and come back
[2465.31] Stephen: Without air mode to do 3d stuff because they recommend you you don't do air mode if you're doing 3d
[2470.91] Stephen: I think so you get smoother transitions
[2475.15] Koel: So I guess maybe you guys can shine some light on this for me
[2479.23] Koel: What is like, uh, excuse my ignorance, but what's the difference between idle up and air mode?
[2487.55] Stephen: Idle up gives you a minimum rpm, right?
[2490.91] Koel: Oh, okay. Okay, this one's at like a thousand. It's like 10 50 or something
[2494.83] Curry: But so does air mode doesn't it and they still react someone asked me this question earlier
[2498.75] Stephen: They said what's the difference between air mode actually when you when you try and input your controls
[2504.67] Stephen: It actually like effectively ups your throttle by itself
[2508.35] Stephen: It it doesn't keep it as step it keeps it at a non stall value
[2512.11] Stephen: But when you try and do stuff it goes above the stall value because that's how you get your jumps, you know
[2517.95] Stephen: if you do
[2520.27] Curry: but so does um
[2523.55] Curry: The the pit loop keeps running and so if if it loses
[2528.35] Curry: If if the attitude is not what it expects to be then it still increases the throttle to
[2533.23] Curry: Do things against that doesn't it?
[2534.75] Curry: So I couldn't I couldn't come up with a proper explanation of the difference between like air mode
[2539.23] Curry: I thought having something like the old-fashioned idle up or having
[2542.51] Curry: Um spin props when armed it all seems like
[2546.67] Stephen: Just a floor on your throttle you couldn't go below it and it when you applied no throttle
[2552.67] Stephen: But did pitch and roll it was using that amount of throttle to enact pitch and roll
[2558.35] Stephen: Whereas I thought that air mode
[2560.91] Stephen: You have a minimum throttle, but the throttle is effectively there just to stop the motor from
[2566.19] Stephen: From stalling out so and you set the throttle with air mode to a level
[2571.07] Stephen: Where the motor is capable of talking itself up to speed as quickly as possible
[2575.79] Stephen: And you can lower that if you want to sort out your hang time and stuff, right?
[2579.71] Stephen: But when you you have air mode on and it can't move fast enough
[2583.87] Stephen: I thought it's actually going to increase the motor speed beyond
[2588.11] Stephen: that floor whereas idle up is going to keep the motors at that floor and just
[2593.63] Curry: I'm not convinced that it does. I I think
[2596.67] Curry: As far as I can and this is just like holding in my hand and trying stuff. I couldn't determine a difference
[2601.79] Curry: Between all three of them
[2603.63] Curry: The only thing I said to people is use air mode because that seems to be the most accepted way of doing this sort of stuff
[2609.87] Curry: Whereas idle up was like what people used before air mode
[2612.91] Stephen: Air mode's just like a primitive way of getting the same thing. It's kind of just very old school
[2620.03] Stephen: Yeah, just just just an addendum there
[2622.27] Stephen: The new way is not to set minimum throttle but to set a minimum rpm
[2626.51] Stephen: So you use your rpm telemetry to say I don't want my mosas to go below this rpm value
[2633.23] Stephen: So instead of pegging the throttle at say 4% or whatever it is
[2637.23] Stephen: You say I need at least
[2639.61] Stephen: 2000 rpm
[2641.23] Stephen: Um, if my motor is above 2000 rpm, I can smoothly increase throttle without jerking without
[2647.39] Stephen: Potentially getting a desync
[2649.47] Stephen: And so that that's the new approach to go by rpm instead of go by throttle value
[2654.83] Curry: Well, that's not helpful. I don't know how fast they're spinning
[2658.43] Koel: You just
[2659.23] Koel: I'm supposed to count one
[2661.71] Stephen: You're definitely faster than two anyone dude arina. I've got a little chart
[2666.43] Stephen: I've got a little chart somewhere that tells you all of this bobbins
[2670.19] Stephen: I've got a chart because I can't remember this either
[2672.83] Koel: Well, one thing that I noticed too is like when I because I have basically two switches for like, you know
[2677.71] Koel: Idle up and then arm, but when i'm in that idle up or whatever you want to call it
[2683.15] Koel: It doesn't really fight me. So I guess the
[2686.03] Koel: Does that mean that the pit's not?
[2688.27] Curry: Active then the pit loop should be active because essentially you're you're saying I am at this throttle
[2694.43] Curry: So if you if you then move the quad if there was no input
[2698.27] Curry: It would fight against that and try and stabilize its its attitude to where it thought it should be
[2703.39] Stephen: Yeah
[2704.27] Stephen: Oh, thank you. You can't be bothered to actually
[2707.07] Stephen: Figure out your rpm and worry about whether it's good or bad
[2710.67] Stephen: There's some rough guidelines. I think it's off a chris rosser video or something
[2714.03] Stephen: But i've just had it in my uh, my notes for ages and you can use those values to set your um
[2721.15] Stephen: your d shot
[2723.31] Stephen: dynamic idle and you if you've got a high pitch prop say you're running a five inch on a
[2730.19] Stephen: Like a a five one four three. That's a steep pitch prop. You put it around 40 if you're running like a
[2737.87] Stephen: 51 30 that's a low pitch prop you'll be down near a 20
[2742.35] Stephen: And it basically says that if you've got a steeper pitch prop
[2746.35] Stephen: It's more likely to to have that stall characteristic
[2750.21] Stephen: It's got a a sharper ankle of attack and it stalls at a lower rp
[2755.01] Stephen: It stalls at a higher rpm
[2757.25] Stephen: So you've got to be over the rpm when it it kind of stops acting like an aerofoil and just becomes like an air
[2762.77] Stephen: Slapper you want to keep it going at that speed to get to avoid
[2766.29] Stephen: Stalling and then going out of stall and then stalling and going out of stall
[2770.29] Stephen: Because when you make that transition from stalled airflow to going out of stall, it just jerks you around and it's rough
[2777.57] Stephen: That's the idea
[2780.13] Curry: So talking of beta flight as we were just before
[2783.81] Curry: using your insider knowledge
[2786.21] Curry: beta flight for free has been in release candidacy since january
[2791.25] Curry: And eight days ago
[2793.09] Curry: They said release candidate seven. It should be the last one and we should have it out within the week. What's going on?
[2797.97] Curry: Why isn't it here?
[2799.09] Curry: Because I want them to get on with 4.4 because 4.4 includes the enhancements
[2803.57] Curry: So there was the rescue mode. So rescue mode becomes a proper rth mode
[2808.05] Stephen: You know how when you write software
[2810.69] Stephen: And you think everything's good and it inevitably turns out that you just forgot to look at the bad parts
[2817.65] Stephen: uh
[2818.69] Stephen: That may have happened a little bit
[2820.69] Stephen: There was a bug where someone noticed that uh when they enabled gps rescue. It was
[2828.74] Stephen: Not good
[2830.1] Stephen: Not good at all
[2831.86] Stephen: decidably bad like
[2833.94] Stephen: Didn't so much rescue us just ditch
[2836.9] Stephen: No one wants that that's one of the features that was fixed rescue that was fixed with rc7
[2842.18] Stephen: But in order to fix that they had to open up the can of worms
[2846.82] Stephen: That is the beta flight gps rescue mode, which apparently changes flight modes
[2852.34] Stephen: It changes the the hold values for your rx channels
[2857.14] Stephen: it does a whole bunch of stuff which has been in there since version 3.x and no one's reviewed it in a long time and I
[2864.02] Stephen: think chris thompson dived
[2867.06] Stephen: in there
[2868.74] Stephen: And he started to to review it and made a lot of changes
[2873.3] Stephen: And and that is why everyone's being a little bit cautious because they want to be sure that
[2878.02] Stephen: It's not worse than it is than it used to be he's released a video
[2883.46] Stephen: He's got the work split into the make sure gps rescue doesn't just ditch you and then there's a larger change
[2890.26] Stephen: That's coming in where oh my god
[2892.66] Stephen: This is a simplified gps rescue where he's cut out all the old cruft code
[2897.14] Stephen: and now it just
[2899.28] Stephen: Disarms cleanly and lands within the same kind of
[2903.3] Stephen: two-meter
[2904.34] Stephen: Landing zone as you took off and doesn't torpedo into your head like a guided missile or anything
[2910.18] Stephen: And he's got a video on youtube, which is quite nice where he shows repeated tests, you know
[2915.3] Stephen: Bungs it out to a hundred yards hits the rescue and it comes back and you see where it lands
[2919.86] Stephen: And he draws a little circle around it in the video and he just does it again and again and again
[2923.46] Stephen: And it looks pretty consistent. But the trouble here is that
[2927.7] Stephen: Not a lot of people have been testing 4.3. Um, people have been waiting until it's official
[2933.06] Stephen: And the trouble is with software that controls real world things like beta flight
[2938.66] Stephen: You can't really do automated testing on it. You need people to test it. So
[2943.62] Stephen: With only a few race pilots running that the nightly builds on 4.3
[2948.18] Stephen: There there weren't a lot of people testing it. So some of the stuff that race pilots don't use
[2953.14] Stephen: like
[2954.18] Stephen: GPS return to home like the brand new flight controllers
[2959.38] Stephen: with h7
[2960.9] Stephen: like for example the all-in-one whoop boards
[2964.58] Stephen: Which were getting really stuck on cpu
[2967.54] Stephen: Um, a lot of that stuff just wasn't tested and that's why it's had to go through so many rcs
[2972.34] Stephen: So i'd encourage people
[2974.1] Stephen: If you've got a quad you're not so worried about
[2977.14] Stephen: Basic f4 just bung a nightly build on it once in a while trot it around the place
[2983.62] Stephen: People don't break disarm
[2986.26] Stephen: But it doesn't hurt just to thrash it around a bit and see what it flies like
[2991.14] Stephen: And don't be so attached to is is it a final version? Isn't it a final version?
[2995.78] Stephen: A release tag is an arbitrary name given to code at a specific point in time by people who have
[3002.34] Stephen: Judged it and say this is ready. This isn't ready
[3005.62] Stephen: It's just like, you know, do we sell this bottle of wine or do we keep it in the cellar a while longer?
[3010.58] Stephen: You know, is it is it ready? Well, that's just a value judgment at the end of the day and we get that value judgment
[3016.42] Curry: As we were discussing earlier both both myself and steven have worked on software that has been released to the good and great public
[3023.14] Curry: And one of the things
[3024.66] Curry: That our companies didn't do was ever release something was like five dot zero. They're like, oh, I don't
[3031.14] Curry: Don't ever do five zero do five dot two or five dot one
[3034.9] Curry: I think you've had one dot three you jump three generations even though it was zero seven or yeah
[3040.74] Stephen: They didn't want us to release at one point
[3042.42] Stephen: Oh or indeed something that was technically earlier than a one point
[3045.54] Stephen: Oh, they wanted us to be released at one point something where that something had to be a number greater than zero
[3052.66] Curry: So so that I think that is the problem. It's a psychology thing
[3055.78] Curry: I think what beat of light could do with is some sort of a call to action asking for help of the community because everybody talks about
[3063.46] Curry: Um how you know, they like to support the community. This is one of the ways you can do it
[3067.94] Curry: Just by testing out and if there's a problem, yeah report it back and say there's a problem
[3072.9] Curry: Yeah
[3073.86] Curry: Well, you don't need to suffer in silence. Are they supposed to do something if it works?
[3077.54] Stephen: Well, there's a beta flight discord
[3079.86] Stephen: As a beta flight discord you can jump in and say i've been flying this rc blah blah blah. I think it's great
[3086.26] Stephen: It's all good. It's it's this feature is working great
[3089.3] Stephen: I flew it on this flight controller and with this receiver and this blah blah blah and it and it's all good
[3095.62] Stephen: No one would complain if you were to do that. Certainly
[3099.06] Stephen: That's helpful information and feedback and i'll just pop the discord over in the chat here. Um, there's a slack
[3106.98] Stephen: Server as well that tends to be more programmers
[3109.38] Stephen: But just general pilot chatter in the beta flight discord
[3112.34] Stephen: It's a good place to go and if you've got any issues
[3115.06] Stephen: If you're concerned that something isn't working or you're worried about changes that might be coming up in a new version
[3120.26] Stephen: Then it's a great place to ask
[3124.42] Curry: There you go. So give it a go. If you've got a cord you don't care about too much
[3128.98] Stephen: Let's see if you're testing at gps rescue. None of this is due to beta flight
[3132.98] Stephen: This is all pilot error. I should say I was waving this around. I I got the
[3138.02] Stephen: Nice uma god super fancy frame. It's all pretty it's got the most awkward camera cage in the world, but it looks beautiful
[3146.9] Stephen: They they've put a camera cage on which
[3149.38] Stephen: Actually locks the top plate on so once you put the camera cage on
[3153.14] Stephen: You can't take the top plate off until you take all the bolts out the camera cage and then slide the camera cage off
[3159.14] Stephen: And it's in more parts than you might think
[3161.54] Stephen: but anyway, uh, yeah, I
[3164.5] Stephen: Had a little bit of a
[3166.18] Stephen: Tuning issue and it oscillated tried to fly to the moon and landed and then I done a one of them
[3172.1] Stephen: Um, so I was a little bit sad after having seen videos of this repeatedly flown into things at high speed
[3177.62] Stephen: I thought would be a bit stronger, but
[3180.34] Stephen: It is not and there are no arms available, which is a bummer. So i've been talking to someone who uh
[3187.3] Stephen: Is making alternate arms for it make them a bit thicker
[3190.5] Stephen: For people that are fatties and aren't obsessed with being under 250 grams. So I might get some slightly fatter arms
[3197.3] Stephen: and proof against
[3199.22] Curry: Damage a bit more. So I I had one other thing I was going to mention and that is about
[3205.28] Curry: Velocidrone
[3206.74] Curry: people fly a velocidrone what I noticed here and um
[3211.78] Curry: Ashley davis who's his lead developer velocidrone is talking about going to i-o and he said i'll have this with me and it's basically a tablet
[3219.7] Curry: With velocidrone running on it. So they've developed a mobile version
[3223.38] Curry: I like to think that uh velocidrone kind of watch what I do on my sim and then get inspired by that
[3229.86] Curry: In in some ways in various things have popped up there that I thought I thought I did that first
[3235.06] Curry: but the most interesting thing about this
[3237.7] Curry: Is um any ios users will know that you can't simply plug a radio
[3242.42] Curry: Into your iphone or your ipad because apple
[3245.62] Curry: Lock you out with their mfi certification made for ios that stands for and it's some sort of hardware
[3252.8] Curry: Regulation and it basically won't allow
[3254.98] Curry: bluetooth joysticks or usb joysticks or anything unless it's part of this mfi spec and um
[3262.18] Curry: what he said in this little release is
[3265.62] Curry: We found a way around it and
[3268.82] Curry: Our mobile version will work
[3271.3] Curry: with regular open tx or htx
[3274.66] Curry: radios
[3275.86] Curry: And i've been trying to work out what he's what he's done and I haven't worked out yet. I thought
[3281.22] Curry: Because he can't use bluetooth. He can't use usb. I thought he must be using the audio
[3285.78] Curry: He's using the trainer cable and he's reading the audio and he's reading the ppm stream and he's getting it from there
[3291.78] Curry: But i've tried to replicate it and I can't I can't make it happen at least in unity. I can't I can't generate a waveform
[3299.3] Curry: So I can't figure it out
[3301.86] Curry: Oh and fail safe fail safe crushes me by saying it's going to be awesome to have a good mobile
[3307.46] Curry: It's a good sim on mobile. It's like you already do. This is just another good sim on mobile
[3312.74] Curry: Very dare you but but that'd be interesting. I mean when he puts it out there, hopefully
[3318.42] Curry: It'll be obvious what he's doing and
[3320.82] Curry: Like I know as well. I spoke to orca and I I asked them about if their radio
[3326.26] Curry: Because they bought out the I think it's the orca one
[3328.34] Curry: They literally bought out and said oh this has been working with our sims and stuff
[3332.58] Curry: They haven't got it working on ios and there's a bunch of
[3336.18] Curry: People that would love to to know what they're doing and copy it. Basically. Have you seen orca's bluetooth add-on?
[3343.3] Stephen: You can get a bluetooth, uh module that goes in your open tx radio
[3349.06] Curry: I think it's like 30. Does it work in ios though?
[3351.7] Stephen: No, but it is 30 euros and the express lrs module that also has bluetooth is cheaper than the orca only bluetooth option
[3361.14] Stephen: I wonder how many they're selling
[3364.63] Curry: funny bunch
[3365.91] Curry: Yeah, so I yeah, I don't know what this doing but um
[3369.19] Curry: It I asked him the question directly on facebook. I said how intriguing is are you using audio and he says no
[3374.87] Curry: But I can't figure out what he's doing. He's using magic
[3377.43] Stephen: You thought he might have hacked the accessibility stuff and squeaked in where they've got a bit more leeway
[3382.87] Curry: Yeah, so in ios there's accessibility stuff. So if
[3386.71] Curry: Um, if you've got any sort of disabilities, you know, there's also you see special things
[3391.19] Curry: So if you've got like, you know problems with your mobility of hands, then you've got sort of special interfaces
[3396.39] Curry: Like great big joysticks and things you can like nod or make noises and it will operate the iphone for you
[3403.03] Curry: And that is slightly less regulated than bluetooth
[3407.11] Curry: Uh in in terms of when you put a bluetooth controller on it's like do we do we recognize this as game control?
[3412.63] Curry: I know it's not xbox controller. It's not ps4 controller. Get out of here
[3416.39] Curry: but i've noticed that the leniency towards
[3419.97] Curry: accessibility devices and I saw some workarounds where
[3424.07] Curry: Other people have put youtube videos out where they've managed to get joysticks working by going into accessibility adding a bluetooth device
[3431.43] Curry: And then going back and it suddenly appears as a game controller, which it wouldn't before
[3435.75] Curry: but
[3436.63] Curry: He's I I don't know if he's suggesting that's bluetooth because that is something they could easily
[3442.55] Curry: cut out
[3443.67] Curry: um, I think one of the problems with ios is
[3448.87] Curry: There's kind of a forced update in terms that if you're a developer and you're putting things on to the
[3454.79] Curry: app store then apple
[3457.59] Curry: make you use the very latest version of the um
[3462.23] Curry: The api and the latest version of um mac os to build it which means they're always getting their fixes in
[3468.71] Curry: So any holes that might have produced
[3471.03] Curry: They can close off and you're kind of forced into just going as google has like a sliding window, don't they where?
[3476.87] Stephen: They they slowly remove the old versions, but you can release an app with
[3481.51] Curry: An older api instead of the yeah, you can go like one or two before but they
[3487.51] Curry: uh, I mean android keep changing the way they package apps as well, which is a pain in the butt
[3492.31] Stephen: because you have to do you think the velocidrone guys maybe went over there with a
[3496.39] Stephen: Brown paper envelope full of 20s and just passed into tim cook with a bit of nut on the wink
[3501.99] Stephen: Got to make god. I don't think they've got enough money for that
[3505.91] Curry: Could be quite a small envelope
[3507.91] Curry: It's all in the window
[3511.38] Curry: Who knows? But anyway, that's something to look forward to we'll see what happens there and you know
[3516.26] Curry: more more things on mobiles the better it means you can just
[3521.22] Curry: when you're zoning out at work
[3523.38] Curry: Or you know, someone's talking to you and they're boring you you just be like, yep. Yep, and you can just get on with
[3530.18] Curry: Ripping some quartz. Well, I guess this is
[3533.06] Stephen: drone droid is
[3535.14] Stephen: maybe an american
[3537.38] Stephen: guy gal
[3539.06] Stephen: So uk is banning the iphone unless it conforms to usbc
[3542.9] Stephen: Uh, no, that's uh, that's an eu spec
[3546.18] Stephen: EU has said we're sick of all these billions of different charger cables, which just end up in the bin
[3553.22] Stephen: So we're going to enforce a single plug for charging your phone
[3557.94] Stephen: Which means the iphone is forced to adopt usbc
[3561.54] Stephen: um to avoid
[3564.42] Stephen: being uh
[3565.62] Stephen: Not eligible for sale in the eu, which is nice. I think like yeah, I think everything likes the lightning cable
[3571.62] Stephen: No, it's annoying
[3573.46] Koel: I I think that everything is basically usbc nowadays other than
[3577.78] Stephen: You know, well, I guess the only one in apple's portfolio that isn't it's it's the odd one out
[3583.78] Koel: yeah, I mean I guess like
[3587.2] Koel: Eventually, I hopefully maybe usbc will become like the bog standard but I don't know it's
[3595.22] Curry: It is what it is. I guess it's always the standard until the next one comes along and it's like why are you not usbd?
[3601.54] Stephen: Yeah, it's a bit odd that you've got this ecosystem where you can charge your
[3605.7] Stephen: Your your macbook and your ipad and I think even does the pencil have a plug that's usbc or is pencil
[3613.28] Stephen: magnetically charged, uh
[3615.14] Koel: So no, so
[3616.66] Koel: Well, I used to work at best buy so I should go this. Uh, so I think the older
[3621.7] Koel: Uh pencil was lightning
[3624.1] Koel: And the other the second one I believe is the magnetic top
[3630.42] Koel: Chargey thing. Yeah
[3632.9] Stephen: But yeah, I remember the original ipod as they used to call it the ik the 30-pin connector
[3638.02] Stephen: And that that was yeah, it was a liability the amount of ways that that could get clogged
[3643.3] Stephen: out of this world
[3645.14] Stephen: You still stay in hotels where they've got like speakers with the ipod connector and I think wow
[3651.06] Stephen: How long have they had it up for? Yeah
[3653.54] Stephen: Yeah, i'll just plug my phone into this alarm clock. Wait a minute. What on earth is that?
[3658.98] UNKNOWN: Yeah
[3660.98] Koel: So our I guess my it looks like we are running short on time here, but i'm wondering if um
[3667.3] Koel: So did you guys happen to see the latest umigod video that he just put out about his frame?
[3672.58] Curry: Yes. Yes
[3674.1] Koel: So long story short. We had tommy on a couple weeks ago now
[3677.94] Koel: and uh
[3679.3] Koel: It looks like uh, yeah jack actually
[3682.02] Koel: Uh jack made him the dug a dive shirt sent it off to him
[3685.62] Koel: And yeah, he gave ldo a nice little shout out on uh on his newest video
[3690.1] Stephen: It was pretty cool
[3692.18] Stephen: Kudos to jack great work jack
[3694.82] Stephen: It's looking awesome
[3696.58] Stephen: Great work. Great shirt
[3698.66] Stephen: Hopefully, uh, if you're watching this from a
[3701.7] Stephen: A bed recuperating somewhere you can uh
[3705.06] Stephen: Be happy in the knowledge that your artistic work has been viewed by the masses
[3710.02] Stephen: Good job, mate. Yeah, you can enjoy the bed bath
[3713.38] Koel: Yes, and get get well soon and uh
[3717.06] Koel: And a quick road to recovery, I guess. Yeah
[3720.66] Koel: Get well, same thing
[3722.82] Curry: On that note, thanks once again for watching even though it was just us three and we miss our other our other friends
[3730.58] Curry: And companions, but hopefully they'll be back soon
[3733.14] Curry: Um, and you have been listening to let's turn out episode
[3736.82] Curry: 354 thank you for labeling those colors much more helpful and with us today
[3743.14] Stephen: The lovely steven complete with this. Thank you everyone. Thanks to our wonderful patreons
[3747.86] Stephen: Have a good week in there
[3749.62] Curry: Thank you to curl
[3751.06] Curry: All the way from canada
[3752.58] Koel: No problem. Thanks for having me and and my cat. Yes, and uh, yeah
[3756.5] Koel: I just want to say thanks to all the patreons, too
[3758.58] Koel: It really helps to keep the show going and uh, if you can, you know spare a couple bucks to help us out
[3764.5] Koel: It's uh, you know, it goes a long way. So
[3767.22] Koel: Uh link should be in the description and whatnot and yeah, I guess. Uh, see you guys next week
[3772.42] Curry: Indeed. Yeah, unfortunately we have to pay someone to edit this because there's there's a lot of
[3777.3] Curry: Us talking nonsense swearing and dead air and someone has to edit it and put it in nicely for an audio podcast
[3782.82] Curry: Which you can then download i've been curry kitten. Goodbye. Everybody. We'll be back next week eight o'clock. Join us live here on youtube
[3790.02] UNKNOWN: Catch you later