=== Let's Drone Out — Episode 367 ===
Title: LDO 367 - Hero 11 Mini DJI Avata
Recorded: 2022-09-08
Hosts: Stephen "Belrik" Howell, Wayne "CurryKitten" Andrews, Koel "Koala" Anderson, Jack "Brightontillifly" Nash, Andrew "Frank" Hyams
Guest(s): (none recorded)
Total audience: 2,051
Platforms: YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cy5deBQ4mcI); SoundCloud (http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/feeds.soundcloud.com/stream/1341770689-letsdroneout-ldo-367-hero-11-mini-dji-avata.mp3)
=====================================

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[0.0] Jack: Hello, and you're listening to let's drone out and special
[4.2] Jack: thank you to our lovely patrons that help donate so that we can
[8.36] Jack: pay the editor to remove the swear words and silly things we
[11.6] Jack: say massive thank you to Carlos campos art folk now Sam
[18.56] Koel: Dharma on with the show.
[51.96] Stephen: Hello, let's drone out episode 367. Hello to all our
[58.32] Stephen: wonderful listeners and lovely Patreon. Tonight, we are hosted
[64.0] Stephen: by Cole, our man in Canada and responsible for the fantastic
[69.24] Stephen: artwork that you might see fronting the show on YouTube. I
[72.92] Stephen: think we're currently here in the UK with all his planes and
[76.56] Stephen: little cars. Curry kitten. Also knows everyone's favorite
[80.92] Stephen: because he doesn't respond unless you say everyone's
[82.84] Stephen: favorite required everyone's favorite. Jack in the corner with
[87.96] Stephen: us once again. Hello, and myself the idiot with mustache.
[93.24] Stephen: Hello, everyone. Welcome to another let's drone out. So a
[97.28] Stephen: brave new dawn for FPV under the edicts of nay prince now King
[104.32] Stephen: Charles, hopefully a supporter of FPV and the wonders that it
[109.0] Stephen: can bring to wildlife and rural pastoral scenes of England. Get
[114.4] Stephen: rid of those cars and let people take it over with multi roses.
[118.56] Stephen: You're waving. I mean, our Prime Minister about talks about
[121.4] Stephen: fighting me, drone dogs. Sorry, Prime Minister talks about drone
[126.12] Stephen: dogs.
[126.96] Curry: Yeah, that that clip. That was list trust, wasn't it? Saying
[131.92] Curry: about how dogs can be used to scare drones away. And uses a
[137.36] Curry: deterrent. I think what she was getting at is there like an early
[140.36] Curry: warning system for like, prison staff, but it did sound very
[143.88] Curry: much like drones can be scared away by dogs. And like sounded
[149.16] Stephen: not for like, she didn't have a clue what she was talking about.
[151.92] Stephen: And she was just smiling at the camera.
[154.84] Curry: Well, that could be as well.
[158.24] Curry: It's entirely possible. Definitely an element there
[161.52] Jack: somewhere of just pure mouth breathing.
[167.04] Koel: In order for a drone to be afraid of a dog, a drone would
[169.68] Koel: need to be able to be afraid of something.
[174.76] Curry: You're trying to suggest my drones are not sentient. Did you
[178.12] Curry: not see that guy get fired from Google to suggesting his
[182.28] Curry: computer was sent in even though it's got a specific subroutine
[185.4] Curry: to say are you sent in if asked to say no, which is like, well,
[191.48] Curry: it can't possibly be sent in because one of the sentient
[194.04] Curry: things is about abandoning your programming and doing your own
[196.2] Curry: thing. I've gone off topic already. I apologise. Carry on.
[199.64] Stephen: That's fine. So I was looking, looking at swimming in the
[204.12] Stephen: waters of a filthy, mucky, murky, United States law with
[212.68] Stephen: their remote ID filing of, we must track your quad, except
[217.36] Stephen: it's not privacy invading. So we won't track you. But we will
[221.08] Stephen: track you in as much as we're going to identify your quad by
[224.6] Stephen: a series of measures that we you must comply with by September of
[229.32] Stephen: next year, but which we have yet actually explained to anyone.
[233.64] Stephen: But we will explain. In fact, we explained that before you
[236.76] Stephen: weren't here, it's legal, get on board, you're with us or
[240.72] Stephen: against us. All that stuff. It's as clear as a dirty puzzle. But
[248.76] Stephen: interesting in a kind of thought puzzle sort of way. It's a bit
[252.12] Stephen: like reading a Kafka novel, the remote ID law.
[256.04] Jack: Very, they talk about it as in like, we're going to enforce it,
[262.32] Jack: we're not going to enforce that bit, that bit's impossible to
[265.84] Jack: enforce. You know, and it's just like, so what is the point? Mind
[274.16] Jack: you, I kind of wondered what was the point of flow state? Did
[277.4] Jack: that actually did that documentary actually do anything?
[281.44] Stephen: Remarkable enough coasters to last him for the rest of his
[285.0] Stephen: life. That's what it's, that's what it's done. Like, I know
[287.88] Stephen: that guy, cut down, he's sorted forever now.
[292.32] Jack: No, I think he I think like, if he signs enough of them, I think
[296.56] Jack: there's enough people that want to learn something today that,
[300.56] Jack: you know, we'll gladly buy them.
[303.8] Stephen: It wasn't a bad, bad movie. But I should caveat that we're saying
[309.0] Stephen: it wasn't a bad movie, except for the bit on remote ID, which
[312.4] Stephen: was really low speed, low paced, low energy people standing around
[319.44] Stephen: in tents, making cardboard placards. And it just, it killed
[323.56] Stephen: the momentum of the whole flow state thing, unfortunately. So
[329.28] Stephen: remote ID is it's an odd one. It's about being safe and people
[333.44] Stephen: having to know when you're flying someplace. But it's not
[338.36] Stephen: contrary to what most aviation people would assume about
[341.92] Stephen: creating a beacon that would allow air users to see your
[346.44] Stephen: quad. It's nothing to do with the regular air beacons that you
[351.12] Stephen: might have in light aircraft, for example, or commercial
[354.04] Stephen: airliners. Instead, it's a system that's designed
[358.52] Stephen: explicitly to not interfere with that, but to stand in its own
[362.16] Stephen: right. And because it was seen early on as being a problem for
[366.76] Stephen: privacy, it's also a system that doesn't communicate with any
[371.32] Stephen: central server. So you have a beacon on your quad. But that
[375.92] Stephen: beacon is not telling any authority where you are. That
[381.28] Stephen: beacon is only telling people in your neighborhood that you're
[384.72] Stephen: flying. So when you arm the quad, the beacon has to get a GPS
[389.28] Stephen: lock and approve of wherever it is that you're flying and make
[392.44] Stephen: sure it's not in some restricted area or something. And when it's
[395.92] Stephen: until it's got a GPS lock, it will inhibit arming. And if it
[400.52] Stephen: loses GPS, it will think, think it might disarm and needs to
[405.76] Stephen: transmit the takeoff location and the current position and
[409.6] Stephen: other telemetry as well. But it does so using Bluetooth or Wi-Fi.
[414.6] Stephen: So if you go out into the middle of nowhere, and you start
[417.72] Stephen: flying, and you're blasting your video on 5.8 gig at who knows
[425.0] Stephen: maybe a watt. And you've also got telemetry. And maybe you're
[429.68] Stephen: deciding to blast your telemetry back to yourself at 200 plus
[433.56] Stephen: milliwatts. That Bluetooth and Wi-Fi is going to be going toe
[438.52] Stephen: to toe with those two signal sources. And so far, it looks
[443.16] Stephen: like it's just a standard Bluetooth chip. So it's a chip
[445.76] Stephen: antenna with Bluetooth, which would be about 100 milliwatt
[450.48] Stephen: tops, going up against an ELRS antenna with 200 milliwatt. And
[458.36] Stephen: it's going to be, I think it's just going to be drowned out,
[462.6] Stephen: like it's just going to be blown out for airwaves. I don't know.
[466.12] Curry: Just for the just for the podcast listeners, I was holding
[468.68] Curry: my hands about because I'm, I'm giving you the approximate range
[472.48] Curry: of the Bluetooth connection.
[474.04] Stephen: Yeah, it's about as far as you can kick it in sandals.
[478.44] Koel: Hand socks, potentially.
[480.68] Stephen: Yeah, potentially for extra purchase. Yeah. What a weird
[486.22] Curry: system. But didn't DJI can do this, are they saying? Because
[490.42] Curry: they've, they've basically said, we can do that. We can do that
[493.42] Curry: now buy our stuff.
[496.82] Stephen: Yeah, DJI have said they can do it. It remains to be seen what
[501.42] Stephen: it's actually going to achieve, though. It's a checkbox. And
[504.7] Stephen: it's a checkbox that you need in order to fly. But the goals of
[508.26] Stephen: this checkbox seem to be orthogonal at best, like at 90
[512.9] Stephen: degrees to what the system is trying to actually achieve. It's
[518.14] Stephen: very peculiar.
[519.06] Curry: You've misunderstood what the system's for, Steven, the system
[522.34] Curry: is a checkbox. We've checked the box that said drones are now
[525.7] Curry: safe, everyone carry on, we fix the problem, everybody, we've
[528.7] Curry: brought in legislation, have no more worries, there will be no
[531.82] Curry: more deaths, there will be no babies being killed by drones,
[536.38] Curry: which happens five times at least today currently.
[538.86] Curry: And
[539.22] Stephen: there was an interesting article from that Frank posted, I think
[542.38] Stephen: from Europe saying that the accidents by drones have gone
[546.82] Stephen: down in the period before the new drone laws were introduced.
[551.9] Stephen: New drone laws didn't make any difference. But before they were
[554.86] Stephen: introduced, there was a downturn in drone related accidents.
[560.9] Curry: What are what are some of these drone related accidents? We got
[565.06] Stephen: usual stuff, I guess people into cars into dangerous areas.
[570.7] Jack: Wasn't one of them, the guys at the bathtub size drone, and
[578.38] Jack: Lord Jesus.
[580.18] Jack: Yeah.
[582.58] Jack: Yeah, may or not, that's just that's just an
[584.66] Stephen: ongoing marketing campaign. Yeah. She's in full influence the
[589.62] Stephen: mode with air speeder right now.
[592.18] Jack: Oh, Jesus.
[594.38] Jack: I
[596.5] Jack: it weren't bad soldering, it was bad fail safe and settings, I
[602.06] Jack: believe, wouldn't it?
[603.66] Curry: Well, the soldering didn't look good. But didn't have on the
[606.98] Curry: wrong frequency and they tape was involved.
[609.42] Curry: How safe the sword.
[611.54] Curry: Yeah, we Tony has put it
[613.3] Jack: does anyone got any photos of the soldering so that Cole can
[617.22] Jack: feel better about
[618.1] Stephen: before but yeah, imagine like one of those old like 1980s
[623.5] Stephen: high fives that someone's kind of torn open and then throw down
[626.74] Stephen: the flight of stairs. And there's just like hand soldered
[629.66] Stephen: cables everywhere. And it's all just a mess.
[633.74] Koel: In my defense, Jack, I do get some good solders every now and
[636.66] Koel: again.
[638.54] Jack: I know you do. But you were you were worried about your
[641.14] Jack: soldering. And I'm like, you don't need to worry about you.
[643.94] Koel: So no, no, I've Carus some of these FPV groups and I have
[648.46] Koel: determined that my soldering is actually like, you know, not
[652.98] Koel: terrible. Like, I can't see the strands of wire. So I think
[657.74] Koel: that's a good thing.
[659.46] Jack: Yeah.
[661.46] Jack: Yeah, it's just the incomplete soldered joints.
[663.82] Jack: Yeah.
[664.78] Stephen: So what I think is going to end up with is like everyone has
[668.06] Stephen: this little black box on their lipo strap on the top of their
[671.34] Stephen: quad. And that will end up being the remote ID do dad. And you're
[676.34] Stephen: just going to have to carry one if you're in the US, I guess.
[678.78] Stephen: Is Canada free of that, Cole?
[680.98] Koel: I have not heard anything of any updates about remote ID in
[683.94] Koel: Canada. The thing is, I mean,
[687.7] Jack: I just can't fly anywhere in Canada, basically, because
[690.82] Jack: everywhere's near.
[692.78] Koel: That's not sure. But this is this is my take on it, because I
[698.34] Koel: do have like, you know, basic certifications in UK, America and
[703.5] Koel: Canada. To get the one in Canada, it is way harder. Like,
[708.26] Koel: it's not just like, if Nancy is 30 meters from a group out of
[713.86] Koel: people, can she take off? Yes, or not? Like, it's, it's
[717.62] Koel: actually a lot harder to complete these, you know, the
[721.9] Koel: our past exam here in Canada, there's a basic and the advanced
[725.42] Koel: and even the basic one, like it's, I want to say it's like,
[729.54] Koel: at least 50 times harder requires a lot more research
[734.3] Koel: studying, you know, just, there's a lot of material that
[738.66] Koel: you have to cover in order to even know what the heck the
[742.22] Koel: test questions are even about. And it has everything to do
[744.78] Koel: with, with weather, no tams, you know, like, the actual
[751.02] Koel: aviation, like, it's mostly all aviation sort of curriculum,
[756.38] Koel: whereas, you know, the US trust ones and I mean, I don't know
[760.02] Koel: about part 107. I'm sure that was a little more in depth. But
[764.34] Koel: you know, maybe Canada is like, okay, the barrier of entry is
[769.58] Koel: harder because the exams are harder or whatever. And I'm
[774.1] Koel: speculating here, but I don't know. It's, I hope they don't
[778.06] Koel: implement remote ID, but I'm thinking of like, okay, you
[781.1] Koel: gotta be like somewhat knowledgeable on the topic to
[783.54] Koel: get the license. So maybe we don't need to track everything.
[787.34] Koel: I don't know.
[787.9] Koel: I had no idea.
[789.3] Curry: There's a bad habit of countries copying other countries. Do you
[792.1] Curry: ever think you say it's just something you could put on a
[794.22] Curry: battery strap, but it sounds like it has to get a GPS lock
[797.82] Curry: and it interrupts you arming your quad. So it seems like it
[800.66] Curry: has to be a little bit more integrated than just suddenly
[803.3] Curry: this thing. If you're not allowed to fly, unless you have
[807.7] Curry: it. It was ridiculous, though, that you can fly ultra lights
[811.22] Curry: and micro lights in the US without any such stuff. You
[816.22] Curry: don't have to have a beacon.
[817.5] Jack: I don't know. You have to have the bladders experimental. I
[820.74] Jack: know that.
[822.98] Jack: Do that.
[824.02] Koel: Well, yeah, sub 250 here is basically, you don't need a
[827.14] Koel: license. You don't need a, you know, you don't have to do a
[831.26] Koel: test once they become a license, you don't have to register
[833.38] Koel: anything, but you can't be an idiot. So it's, I don't know.
[837.5] Curry: I know. And I'm talking about like manned flying.
[839.98] Curry: They definitely allow.
[840.78] Curry: Oh, it's micro lights. You can you can fly those without
[844.82] Curry: pretty much, I think like ultra lights and stuff. You don't have
[847.78] Curry: to have like pilot license. You don't have to have beacons on
[851.02] Curry: board or stuff like that. You just I'm offline. Bye. See, see
[856.82] Curry: Peter Schrieckel's channel for examples of just like building
[860.42] Curry: stuff and flying it. There's there's certain
[862.46] Jack: in the game, though, curry skin in the game.
[866.26] Stephen: Yeah, it's a well known fact, like most aircraft pilots like
[870.42] Stephen: Harrison Ford and others are much more careful about their
[873.14] Stephen: aircraft, because they're actually piloting it themselves.
[875.98] Stephen: Therefore, they don't crash or in any way risk other people's
[879.54] Stephen: lives.
[880.54] Curry: So far enough, and that's why they don't need any legislation.
[884.94] Curry: Skin in the game, man. It's the law.
[888.26] Jack: Yeah, you're you're you're right to be a bell end, as long as
[892.34] Jack: you put your life in jeopardy, the same reason as everyone
[898.68] Jack: else.
[899.96] Curry: Jack, what are you doing? We're not holding your attention. What
[902.44] Curry: are you up to there with your soldering iron?
[904.6] Jack: I'm just trying to clear some space because my desk is
[907.24] Jack: horrendous. And I can't read the chat because I've probably
[910.88] Curry: sold your way out of a mess. I was slightly confused. Because
[915.28] Curry: there was definitely smoke coming out of it earlier.
[918.04] Jack: Oh, that was me removing the burnt plastic on the end of it.
[925.68] Jack: Because it had melted into this plastic bag.
[930.72] Jack: Oh, nice.
[931.68] Jack: So I was just cleaning that off.
[935.92] Jack: Yeah, there's no doubt the next time I use it will probably
[940.76] Jack: be somewhere or I'm desperately trying to fix something. And all
[945.52] Jack: I can smell is burnt plastic. And that sort of like makes you a
[948.88] Jack: bit worried. But yeah, at my desk, is there anything that's
[955.36] Jack: got my address on it? Yeah, but my desk literally looks like
[959.36] Jack: that. I have no free space.
[963.32] Stephen: The trick is to light it all with this distracting blue
[966.52] Stephen: lighting. So people can't see the huge pile of or at least
[970.16] Stephen: not till they really try and focus on it.
[973.0] Jack: It looks more techno, less pile of, you know, rather than
[980.52] Jack: that kind of techno.
[981.76] Jack: No, like, you know, technological.
[985.36] Stephen: When Cole described the Canadian FPV test instantly reminded me
[989.8] Stephen: of the XKCD article of like the Raptor exam. PhilosaRaptor
[995.04] Stephen: spots you at 40 meters away and attacks accelerating at four
[998.68] Stephen: meters per second per second up to its top speed of 25 meters
[1002.28] Stephen: per second. When it spots you begin to flee quickly reaching
[1005.2] Stephen: your top speed of six meters per second. How far can you get
[1008.24] Stephen: before you're caught and devoured?
[1012.36] Stephen: You're a question to with an equilateral triangle, where one
[1016.36] Stephen: Raptor has a wounded leg and is limited to 10 meters per second
[1019.96] Stephen: top speed. At what angle should you run to maximize the time you
[1023.52] Koel: stay alive?
[1029.08] Jack: Oh, my God. That seems like a Tomb Raider math exam.
[1032.68] Jack: Yeah. Indeed.
[1035.08] Jack: Gary, I hear that you've
[1037.28] Koel: Oh, no, Jack, Jack, I was wrong. I lied. I was misinformation.
[1044.08] Jack: Okay.
[1045.08] Curry: Yeah. Well, yeah, this is me saying I've collected Avanta
[1049.72] Curry: crashes. And therefore I'd bought one and crashed it. Which
[1054.56] Curry: leave it to what what I was doing is I'm always interested
[1059.24] Curry: when a new DJI Accord comes out because there always seems to be
[1063.32] Curry: multiple multiple people who have much more money than
[1066.4] Curry: common sense. And they do things like it's my first flight, I
[1070.12] Curry: should try and go as far as I can and try and ignore the whole
[1073.72] Curry: battery thing or something example like that. So I started
[1077.76] Curry: looking around for like specific crash to see what would happen
[1080.52] Curry: because I think the problem is with this sort of drone, is they
[1084.92] Curry: sort of advertise it showing you know, doing wishy FPV bits. So
[1089.12] Curry: people are going straight to this from nothing or they flown
[1092.24] Curry: something like a mavic. And they're like, Yeah, I know how
[1094.76] Curry: to fly and then I just start whooshing their hands around
[1097.48] Stephen: fly around a multi story car park and take it home. Yeah,
[1101.52] Curry: 15 different and yeah, you can in most cases, and I've seen an
[1106.64] Curry: awful lot of crashes and a lot of the times it's just like
[1108.56] Curry: people hitting bushes people in a floor, because you know,
[1112.0] Curry: they're, they've gone beyond their skill level. And instead
[1115.68] Curry: of going nice and slow and slowly ramping up about what
[1119.12] Curry: they do, they just go for it. But I did find a couple of
[1122.8] Curry: people that that did entertain me that I wanted to share with
[1126.68] Curry: you guys. And I'm gonna have to
[1128.96] Jack: got a highlight reel. Because this reminds me
[1133.96] Curry: I'm afraid I haven't produced an entire highlight reel. But this
[1137.96] Jack: reminds me of the the Christmases, where you'd follow
[1143.04] Jack: Twitter and hear that, you know, they'd given kids phantom
[1147.6] Jack: fours for their or phantom threes for the Christmas
[1151.6] Jack: present. And you could just sit there and view all the you know,
[1156.52] Jack: lost drone things on Christmas and Christmas Eve. Yeah, carry
[1161.32] Curry: on the fun story. So what we got here, this guy is in Las
[1166.04] Curry: Vegas, if you've ever typed around Las Vegas, you'll know
[1169.48] Curry: it's about a million degrees. But what was interesting about
[1173.24] Curry: this, it seems an experienced guy. But if you haven't
[1177.76] Curry: about his his battery, yeah, he's got quite a lot of
[1179.8] Curry: subscribers. He's talking about where he lost it, he finds it
[1182.76] Curry: eventually. But if we just gets to the the DVR bit, and there's
[1186.04] Curry: not much of it. But look, look at this bit here, battery level
[1188.88] Curry: low, throttle output read, and that's going to be restricted.
[1193.24] Curry: Because then he talks about I got a little low. And I tried
[1196.32] Stephen: to get out 44% that's not really like, why is it restricting
[1201.8] Curry: battery at 40%? But he couldn't he couldn't pull out of it. And
[1206.44] Curry: so he crashed and he took him a long, long time to find that
[1210.88] Curry: button for it. Sadly, he did find it with time. Let's rewind
[1214.04] Stephen: and like discuss why your throttle would be restricted
[1217.08] Stephen: when you're at 43% battery and why that's a good idea.
[1222.12] Koel: Oh, no, I have to
[1223.36] Koel: get so I guess he had a battery got injected. And that's the
[1227.96] Koel: battery rejected. So he couldn't actually do like any kind of
[1233.44] Koel: beeping or whatever to try to track it down. But yeah, I guess
[1237.44] Koel: he like hyped for like a good amount of time and finding it
[1241.32] Koel: was interesting.
[1244.0] Curry: So this this is quite a typical DJI thing that if your battery
[1247.64] Curry: does become low, it restricts you so you can go for you'd have
[1251.92] Curry: to go like multiple throttle to get a slow liftoff. Because it's
[1256.16] Curry: that sticks not really a throttle in a lot of cases, it's
[1258.48] Curry: the up and down stick. But yeah, it's interesting. As you say,
[1261.8] Curry: it says 43. He's only been going three minutes 18. I've seen a
[1268.52] Curry: lot of things where crashes and it says battery error, reinsert
[1273.68] Curry: your battery, perhaps that's the sort of thing. But yeah,
[1276.08] Curry: because what literally happened is he tried to punch out there.
[1279.76] Curry: And it's just like, okay, we're working on it with crash. And
[1282.84] Jack: then he did a long argument is there's no such thing. You're
[1287.36] Jack: thinking that the throttle of the gun makes you go up and
[1293.2] Jack: down. It doesn't you have to point the stick upwards.
[1299.28] Curry: He was flying because we can see no pointer on the screen. I
[1303.6] Curry: think he was flying with a proper controller.
[1305.72] Koel: Yeah. But then the other thing too was so was it that like, did
[1311.8] Koel: he lose signal or did he fail safe? Is that what it was as
[1315.24] Koel: well? Or
[1317.32] Curry: the video if you look at it, the video goes a little bit glitchy.
[1320.52] Curry: Caroline's got it right. Yes, Billy, Billy Kyle. Yeah. Yeah.
[1325.2] Curry: So if you look here, there's I don't know if it's smooth to
[1327.64] Curry: you, but it's sort of glitching here. And it's like breaking up.
[1330.48] Curry: And that's when he tries to get out of it.
[1333.88] Koel: Yeah.
[1335.4] Jack: And he's always like, yeah, desert
[1341.0] Jack: crevice sort of landscape. So it must have been actually
[1346.08] Jack: nightmare to find. Yeah. So he got it back.
[1350.48] Jack: Howard's away.
[1352.96] Curry: Yeah, I mean, it is it is a whoop at the end of the day. That's
[1355.84] Curry: that's probably you can't, it's not like a funny Vince, you know,
[1358.4] Curry: you can you can dive, dive, dive. And when you're about one inch
[1360.92] Curry: from the floor, you just like back up again.
[1365.4] Curry: But this next one is much more amusing because it did not
[1368.96] Curry: survive. And I always think well, that's fun. Caroline posted
[1373.36] Stephen: a video where the guy just failed in the most ignoble way
[1377.68] Stephen: possible. They were zooming around a field and they stopped
[1381.36] Stephen: and just like, flipped upside down.
[1384.84] Stephen: Post on the grass.
[1386.76] Koel: Yeah, links in the chat.
[1388.44] Curry: He's in a manual acro. Yeah. Oh, last 20 seconds of massive
[1397.82] Curry: crash. Yeah, I kept looking for ones that massive crash and I
[1400.3] Curry: was disappointed because they just crashed in the field and
[1402.14] Stephen: stuff. Yeah, it was a really lame crash. But the crash is
[1405.82] Stephen: just one that you wouldn't do on a quad. It looked like a your
[1409.94] Stephen: washout and the person just overreacted and dunked it.
[1415.22] Stephen: Yeah, your washout is a problem with these quads because they
[1418.5] Curry: don't have power, right? All whoops have suffered from that
[1422.62] Curry: because of their design. But I also noticed that when these
[1425.78] Curry: things crash, there's this tendency for the DJI controller
[1430.1] Curry: to sort of try to throttle up to get out of it. And the IMU is
[1433.02] Curry: all out of whack. And so it all goes a bit crazy trying to get
[1435.9] Curry: there. And people then freak out and like, what's my drone
[1438.46] Curry: doing? This this is particularly amusing. This is over sort of a
[1442.02] Curry: harbour. This guy's flying around. And it looks quite
[1446.7] Curry: reasonable. He's doing a pretty good job. Unfortunately, the
[1449.02] Curry: seagull got in the way. And he goes down in the salt water. And
[1453.7] Koel: that is that is game over, game over.
[1458.38] Koel: That's that's giving me some some flashbacks to a couple of
[1462.34] Koel: weeks ago.
[1464.06] Curry: What did you hit?
[1466.14] Koel: I didn't I didn't hit anything a seal. Yeah, it was the term
[1471.62] Koel: kamikaze didn't I? I think I showed it a couple of weeks ago.
[1475.34] Jack: Yeah, on the bonus. Ah, yeah.
[1479.34] Curry: Oh, kamikaze. It was you're saying it was down to down to
[1483.74] Curry: the seagull.
[1484.94] Stephen: Yeah, with these products, DJI is slowly kind of crossing the
[1490.02] Stephen: Rubicon where they're no longer pushing a camera around the
[1493.42] Stephen: sky. And the sort of flight performance that the DJI quads
[1497.3] Stephen: achieve is not enough for the type of flying they're promising
[1500.98] Stephen: their customers at this point.
[1503.06] Koel: Well, they're sort of, oh, yes, look at us. FPV look that we can
[1507.5] Koel: do. But then it's not accurate. It's not, it's not in the same
[1512.18] Koel: calibre is what we're expecting or people that are actually in
[1515.26] Koel: the hobby are expecting people that aren't in the hobby. They're
[1517.78] Koel: like, Oh, a drone, it flies.
[1520.58] Stephen: It's got the visuals, it's got the range and it's got the speed.
[1525.58] Stephen: But that just lets you get yourself into a situation that
[1528.7] Stephen: the flight controller and the powertrain can't get you out
[1531.5] Curry: of. Yeah, this this video is particularly annoying from the
[1536.58] Curry: fact that this guy's really difficult to listen to. This is
[1539.1] Curry: literally the guy you'd least like to be stuck in an elevator
[1542.74] Curry: with called Philly drone life apologies to anybody that thinks
[1546.14] Curry: he's amazing. But you only have to look at where he's flying and
[1549.38] Curry: look at these over corrections. It's like what am I doing down
[1552.62] Curry: the street and what guy needs to be on a simulator?
[1556.58] Koel: And that is that what the avada
[1559.5] Curry: This is with the avada and then he said make it look really
[1561.94] Stephen: difficult. And for our audience listeners, he's flying down a
[1564.66] Stephen: street that's like 20 feet wide and he's jerking around trying to
[1568.5] Stephen: hit some kind of racing gate. And then he claimed he was doing
[1572.26] Curry: a power loop, which is a weird thing. I mean, he's got halfway
[1577.18] Koel: there to be fair.
[1582.7] Jack: At least you didn't hear any of the cars that he was
[1585.74] Jack: Yeah, yeah, really.
[1587.78] Koel: Here's voice now that you said that you wouldn't want to be in
[1590.22] Koel: a condo with him in the elevator. I'm curious now what
[1593.02] Koel: his voice
[1594.1] Curry: I'll say to you later, you can you can listen to him in your
[1596.9] Stephen: own time. But I don't know. This is the guy that must have flown
[1602.26] Stephen: a video and then bragged about it in the past with his, who's
[1605.7] Stephen: trying to fight against $182,000 fine for doing stupid flying.
[1611.02] Stephen: So he's and is continuing to fly down residential streets
[1616.34] Stephen: badly. But if you're gonna fly and boast about it on YouTube
[1621.06] Stephen: and get massive fines, at least learn to fly. I mean, come on.
[1624.66] Koel: We have a rolling like like going down the street over the
[1630.58] Curry: places must be from that is literally like not only you
[1633.62] Curry: flying down the street, it's not like you can even have the
[1637.1] Curry: skill to stay in a straight line. You're like, whoa, whoa, I'm
[1640.1] Stephen: back and forth, back and forth. And like Richard Warwick says,
[1643.3] Stephen: yeah, I could emphasize if he was trying to fly like a tiny
[1647.62] Stephen: whoop through chair legs at speed. Yeah, sure. He's in a
[1651.5] Curry: street.
[1655.86] Curry: Wow, people writing checks there sort of their skills can't
[1659.82] Curry: can't cash. The last one is, I think my favorite, because this
[1666.38] Curry: guy is flying. Let me just pop up the thing. We might want to
[1671.62] Curry: rewatch this bit because I watched it lots of times. It
[1673.9] Curry: never it never gets tired. This guy. Again, it's kind of one of
[1678.3] Curry: these like I've got the skills. Look at me.
[1681.62] Curry: 37% battery.
[1684.7] Curry: And he's
[1686.26] Jack: to pay you to drink that water.
[1690.1] Curry: You see, he's got the little thingy there. So he's flying
[1692.7] Curry: with the motion controller. And you guys will flown over water.
[1697.54] Curry: You know how, how difficult it is to judge your height because
[1701.66] Curry: the water when it comes to saying up and down. But if you
[1705.1] Curry: look very carefully, to be fair, the the quad goes exactly where
[1710.26] Curry: he points it if you look bigger and pointing. He's like through
[1713.5] Curry: the bridge.
[1715.66] Curry: Turning around is looking good so far. And then I'm going to
[1718.86] Curry: point it at the water for some reason. And then it goes into
[1723.5] Curry: the waterfall.
[1727.14] Curry: Too low.
[1728.66] Curry: That one just doesn't come back. But yeah, I'm trying. I'm
[1731.94] Curry: looking at this. I'm like, did he just get distracted and just
[1735.54] Curry: drop his hand down or something?
[1738.86] Curry: It seemed like a pretty obvious thing.
[1740.5] Stephen: I think what happened there is he lost the surface detail of the
[1744.22] Stephen: water. And when you look at water, you have to kind of gauge
[1747.26] Stephen: the distance from the water by the amount of detail you make out
[1750.3] Stephen: and he turns around and the reflections change slightly. And
[1753.3] Stephen: he kind of just loses his his his his height estimation.
[1758.42] Stephen: Well, it's difficult for height by that you got to be careful.
[1762.7] Koel: He was shot right here.
[1764.3] Stephen: He'd be fair, though. He's got it written on the screen, right?
[1767.02] Stephen: Only some excuse is it does on the left side of the screen. Tell
[1770.06] Stephen: him his height.
[1771.42] Koel: Yeah, but the other thing is like, right now he is pointing
[1775.1] Koel: kind of at the water still.
[1777.5] Curry: What is the height when he when he was on the horizon line there,
[1780.34] Stephen: but maybe he was looking down below the horizon line four
[1783.42] Curry: meters to me to look, he's not going to meet us. He should be
[1787.5] Curry: he should be okay there. I think he's
[1789.94] Curry: he's got a
[1791.66] Koel: from though. Is that where he took it? Is that based on?
[1794.82] Stephen: Clearly, yeah, well, it's relative to the takeoff point. And
[1797.38] Stephen: he wasn't standing in the lake or whatever when he took off. So
[1801.42] Koel: oh, God, that's
[1803.22] Curry: he's saying he was standing underneath the lake.
[1805.78] Stephen: I mean, he's going wrong at this point, right? By aiming straight
[1808.94] Stephen: down below the horizon. That's not
[1810.78] Jack: doesn't have the bottom centers to stop you doing that.
[1813.98] Jack: Water though is
[1816.42] Jack: a little
[1818.14] Koel: Yeah.
[1819.22] Curry: Okay.
[1820.86] Curry: He's got 29 satellites. So that's a good thing. I wonder
[1824.14] Curry: how many he's got underwater. I like the fact that this this
[1828.18] Curry: symbol here, if you can look at my mouse looks a bit like a
[1830.94] Curry: scuba mask. Maybe that's why he got confused. I think it's the
[1836.04] Curry: the goggle indicator. But yeah, it does look like he maybe just
[1840.68] Curry: thought it was good snorkeling on the voyage.
[1843.96] Curry: You know, but there you go. That was my own DJ avada crashes,
[1849.16] Curry: which are much more fun than just crashing in a field. But
[1853.12] Curry: yeah, we'll have to have to look out for some some more because
[1855.88] Curry: they they they do amuse me only because people seem to have more
[1860.0] Curry: money than sentence that old chestnut and it's really funny
[1863.04] Curry: to watch them lose their toys. But I'm sure they're just going
[1865.04] Curry: by another one. A lot of these people seem to have DJ refresh.
[1868.72] Curry: They think it's a license to that like idiots and oh, it went
[1872.24] Curry: wrong. Give me a new one.
[1873.76] Koel: That's power loop in the middle of a street when I can't control
[1876.68] Koel: a quad. Sure. Yeah. I didn't like that.
[1880.8] Stephen: I'm going wrong. Let's do it more. I don't get that. Yeah. Yeah,
[1885.72] Koel: I did like this little secret. What's the word? This little
[1891.52] Koel: subsection of LDO where we get to have a little crash
[1894.0] Koel: compilation. That was fun. That was cool.
[1898.64] Curry: I don't think anything beats Jack special. Let's reverse into
[1901.56] Stephen: a hill crash. That was my favorite way back when when you
[1907.32] Stephen: were learning to freestyle jack?
[1909.56] Jack: No, that was the fail safe.
[1913.36] Stephen: Now you say it's a fail safe, but others others have said that
[1916.88] Stephen: that maybe control link was in fact intact at the time.
[1922.0] Stephen: No, because the quad.
[1923.88] Koel: We need DVR. We need DVR. I mean, you've got it. We need proof.
[1929.0] Stephen: I did.
[1930.32] Stephen: To be fair, hills are quite easy to, you know, miss.
[1936.12] Koel: Yeah, you know what? Actually, I when I first time I was in the
[1939.36] Koel: UK, I was in this massive hill, or whatever. I'm only going to
[1943.36] Koel: call it this big valley. And I was flying my DJ I'm having
[1946.8] Koel: promises before I ever actually flew FPV. And I was like, I can
[1950.72] Koel: fly DJ I I'm in full control. I know how to apply drones. I'm
[1954.8] Koel: good. And then I magically backed up into the rose bush.
[1959.04] Koel: And I think there are some kind of like prickly bush. And yeah,
[1962.56] Koel: I had to reach my hand in and get thorns out of my hand after
[1966.72] Koel: and yeah, that was that was an interesting time.
[1971.04] Frank: This episode was recorded in front of a live online audience
[1974.16] Frank: downloaded and edited to make sense when it played audio only
[1977.68] Frank: censored to please the iTunes people hosted on the internet
[1980.64] Frank: forwarded through to your podcast provider, downloaded
[1983.16] Frank: playing on your device and is now playing in your ears. All
[1986.48] Frank: thanks to our patrons. Consider joining them and you'll also
[1989.88] Frank: get other online benefits. Find out more at patreon.com forward
[1994.28] Frank: slash let's drone out.
[1997.16] Jack: I should have now let you have a go at the loop. Because you
[2001.28] Jack: Oh, yeah, you're right. You fly it now.
[2003.92] Koel: Yeah, I've never actually flown a tiny move before. I know. And
[2007.52] Koel: the first time I tried to all I could do is flop on the ground
[2010.04] Koel: with it.
[2011.0] Jack: Yeah. And then you were like, what's wrong with this thing? I'm
[2014.6] Jack: like, just he's out of control, man.
[2018.16] Jack: Yeah, it is you.
[2021.96] Koel: Oh, man, I've learned so much over the last year of playing.
[2026.08] Jack: Yeah. If you know, like, when you do go back to DJI, mind you,
[2032.32] Jack: you probably you'll probably like, you don't notice it,
[2037.16] Jack: because you always, you know, you're always flying it. But do
[2040.4] Jack: you now feel like do you forget yourself? And do you feel it
[2045.72] Jack: kind of fighting you to fly? You know, you're trying to fly it
[2049.28] Jack: and it doesn't quite exactly do what you want it to?
[2053.68] Koel: Well, I will say this. So pre FPV, I was a thumber for DJI.
[2062.08] Koel: Yeah, start a flying FPV. And I'm a pincher or like a hybrid
[2065.96] Koel: pincher, summer kind of guy. Now when I fly DJI, I pinch now
[2071.16] Koel: because I just feel weird just using my thumbs. And as far as
[2076.84] Koel: the whole like, fighting me and whatnot, yeah, it it's not a
[2082.64] Koel: very user friendly. Well, okay, sorry, that's a lot. It's
[2086.16] Koel: extremely user friendly, because anyone can do it. But I don't
[2090.32] Koel: know, now that I've flown acro, I've flown manual, there's only
[2093.68] Koel: certain moves that I do with a DJI drone now, I let it go
[2097.12] Koel: straight up, I let it go straight down, I let it go
[2100.2] Koel: forward, I let it go backwards, I might pan and I might tilt the
[2103.44] Koel: camera, but I don't actually try to like fly it and cruise it
[2106.6] Koel: around like a like an FPV drone or like an actual quad because
[2110.92] Koel: you just can't do it. And if you try to, you're gonna probably
[2114.88] Koel: crash it because it's not very, it's not as responsive. It's
[2119.24] Koel: not. I don't know. It's just it's a DJI drone. It's not a
[2123.36] Koel: you know, full manual. So
[2125.76] Stephen: you can't add lip, of course, you've got to have it planned
[2128.64] Stephen: out.
[2129.88] Koel: You can you can kind of cruising it if you haven't opened up the
[2133.4] Koel: area. But it's not something that you would really love that
[2137.2] Koel: I personally would like send out far and low and try to like
[2141.44] Koel: maneuver through obstacles.
[2144.4] Curry: I think the difference for me is it's not it's not hard to go
[2148.2] Curry: between the two because they're so different in many ways. Yeah.
[2151.52] Curry: But when you're flying like a DJI, whatever, you're not just
[2155.32] Curry: going out and say I'm just going to have a fly. That's not the
[2158.12] Curry: cord you take for that you're doing it. No, like I want to get
[2160.8] Curry: a picture of this or an air review of that. And apart from
[2163.92] Curry: the up down left, right, the other thing you might do is
[2165.88] Curry: like the sort of circle round thing. Oh, yeah. But that that
[2169.32] Curry: is literally about it. Or if you've got a battery left, then
[2173.0] Curry: you might just go round and round the field until it comes
[2176.2] Curry: out 30%. But you never get sort of confused that you're, you
[2181.84] Curry: know, you're flying something else. Do you ever fly yours
[2184.36] Curry: with? I've just got a Mavic Mini FPV mode.
[2188.88] Koel: I haven't tried it. Yeah, I've tried sport mode. But basically,
[2193.64] Koel: shortly after I got into FPV flying with Acro, I was like,
[2197.68] Koel: Okay, oh, sorry, actually, I lied. I had only flown in the
[2200.72] Koel: sim first. And I was like, Whoa, I love flying FPV. So I'm going
[2204.72] Koel: to try sport mode on my Mavic and I'm going to go fast now like
[2208.4] Koel: an FPV drone. That was interesting. But I have tried
[2213.08] Koel: the FPV mode. It's, it's, it's like, it's like the gimbal
[2218.56] Koel: doesn't really like work properly. And even in sport
[2223.32] Stephen: and how do they integrate the gimbal with FPV? Do you have a
[2226.88] Stephen: set? So have
[2229.8] Curry: is specifically it doesn't correct the gimbal on the roll.
[2234.76] Curry: So it's a little bit like you're flying a really stable wing as
[2237.4] Curry: you go and turn the camera turns with you. So if you want to give
[2241.68] Curry: the effect that you are actually flying in something other than
[2244.96] Curry: just a stable drone, you can get this sort of effect that you're
[2248.08] Curry: sort of turning and look, look, I'm flying like a bird sort of
[2251.28] Curry: whatever, just just as a bit of a difference. I've had it on one
[2254.64] Curry: of my auxiliary buttons, just just for fun. And I occasionally
[2258.76] Curry: look and say, what's this do? I say occasionally, I don't fly
[2261.68] Curry: very often, but
[2264.2] Koel: it's not bad. I mean, it's kind of like, you know, it's just
[2268.8] Koel: another perspective or another way of making the shot look
[2272.24] Koel: different. And I may refer to the sort of like, what do they
[2277.76] Koel: call it is the helix or the the circular or the, like, you know,
[2282.08] Koel: the spiral? Yeah, that's how I mean, the only times I ever
[2285.96] Koel: really do that is with a quick shot motor, then I'm not even
[2288.2] Koel: flying it, right? Like, if I want to actually, if I want to
[2292.36] Koel: get like a perfect orbit around it, yeah, thank you, Jack. If I
[2295.88] Koel: want to get a perfect orbit, I'm not going to try to manually do
[2298.76] Koel: it, I'm going to go to the object that I want to orbit, I'm
[2302.8] Koel: going to fly back in the radius that I want, I'm going to press
[2306.04] Koel: the button that I'm going to I'm going to press record that I
[2308.12] Koel: don't have to do anything. And it's like, easy, you know, just
[2311.44] Koel: simple. And yeah,
[2313.96] Curry: I forget about those modes. I already fly my the the only time
[2317.88] Curry: I use one of those modes if I want to do a follow me shot for
[2321.28] Curry: what I was in. Yeah, which I haven't done for a long time
[2325.32] Curry: either. The last time was I built the dodgy skateboard. And
[2328.6] Curry: I had it follow me and it managed to avoid a tree somehow,
[2331.72] Curry: which I got impressed with. It sort of got there. And it's like,
[2335.56] Curry: it kind of the tree was here and it's coming here. It's
[2338.12] Curry: following me and it's like, it's like it was sort of trying to
[2340.6] Curry: build up the courage and it just went for it and got through the
[2342.88] Curry: gap.
[2345.04] Stephen: Sometimes what I was thinking about when Cole talked about FPV
[2348.16] Stephen: mode was, wouldn't it be nice if there was a hat that did the
[2352.36] Stephen: camera like you used to have on kind of flight sticks and stuff?
[2358.78] Curry: How do you mean?
[2360.1] Stephen: So you're flying with with two sticks. You're not using the
[2364.46] Stephen: other maybe you're pinching, but you've got some other finger
[2366.94] Stephen: you could have the hat, like on the back of a controller. So
[2370.9] Stephen: you say you've got some little control like this, you could
[2373.1] Stephen: have a hat on the back. So you're flying with this and you
[2375.78] Stephen: could like move the camera around. Or you could have your
[2378.58] Stephen: sliders for the pan and tilt of the camera as roller sliders.
[2382.42] Stephen: But you could like, literally be controlling the camera as well
[2385.98] Stephen: as the pitch roll, your own throttle, you could just have
[2388.58] Stephen: an extra two axis.
[2390.3] Stephen: And
[2391.02] Curry: you've got the extra one axis to control the camera on on most
[2394.58] Stephen: you can you can control the tilt. And also there is a
[2398.22] Stephen: little tilt, you know, actually move the camera around, you could
[2402.1] Stephen: do like tank steering effectively where
[2404.78] Stephen: yeah, you fly around something, and you stick the camera out
[2408.3] Stephen: sideways and move the camera around as you want instead of
[2411.46] Stephen: just up and down.
[2413.3] Koel: I mean, I think they do kind of have that option to like dual
[2415.78] Koel: operator mode for some of their quads.
[2419.9] Koel: Well, except well, I could be like,
[2422.5] Stephen: like full on to like, you know, I'm talking about one stuff.
[2426.54] Koel: Yeah, well, there is also let me say that there is like, in this
[2432.22] Koel: in the DJI settings, there's something that's called, like,
[2434.94] Koel: you can you can adjust the follow or something on the
[2437.58] Koel: camera where it'll do as you want it to, or it will kind of
[2443.34] Koel: fall instead of following like, it's not just saying the three
[2446.22] Koel: axis gimbal, and it'll actually kind of follow the movement of
[2450.14] Koel: the quads instead. I haven't played around with it though.
[2453.34] Koel: It's been a long time since I looked at that.
[2456.62] Stephen: I had a similar frustrating moment this week after playing a
[2460.3] Stephen: lot of that trip sim, which is an Unreal Engine based sim that
[2464.9] Stephen: looks quite flashy, similar to Uncrashed and you can chase
[2468.62] Stephen: motorbikes and eagles and odd bits and pieces and skydivers
[2472.1] Stephen: and things. I then picked up Star Wars squadrons on on a sail
[2480.46] Stephen: and I started playing that and I got really annoyed because I
[2483.42] Stephen: was using a gamepad. I've got this like, eight bit dough
[2488.5] Stephen: Xbox thingy for the PC. I mean, it's got like, it's got rubbish
[2493.26] Stephen: thumbsticks, right? And they're just not very precise. So I I
[2497.7] Stephen: knew I've created an adapter for Express LRS with my USB C on
[2503.7] Stephen: it. So I just grabbed my radio and tried to use that and was I
[2508.22] Stephen: had the precision, but then the menus insisted that one of my
[2513.1] Stephen: switches was actually an axis. So the menu just turned into
[2516.62] Stephen: this like epileptic fit, where it was trying to spin through
[2520.62] Stephen: fields 50 times a second and just flashing constantly at me
[2523.98] Stephen: until I unplug.
[2526.1] Jack: Did you mean? Yeah, like that. It's a PlayStation two
[2533.54] Jack: joystick control stick on the back of a transmitter.
[2537.9] Jack: Yeah, like maybe but and then yeah, and then that would allow
[2544.94] Jack: you to control
[2547.7] Jack: right until I just thought you guys kind of needed a visual.
[2552.74] Stephen: That's exactly what I'm talking about. Yeah. So because you can
[2556.22] Stephen: slide the camera side to side. But with something like that,
[2558.86] Stephen: you could just be like, point and just point the camera at an
[2562.5] Stephen: object as you're flying past and you could do like a proper 2D
[2565.74] Stephen: tracking of the object while you're FB being around it.
[2570.22] Curry: You need to look down for that most of the current ones don't
[2572.62] Curry: allow you to change the pan.
[2575.34] Koel: Oh, yeah, it's really hard to like it would be really hard to
[2578.7] Koel: like, you know, you're already kind of doing a lot as far as
[2582.06] Koel: flying in the direction. I feel like adding another finger to
[2584.86] Koel: try to do something else.
[2586.74] Koel: And you can rub it on your leg.
[2590.46] Jack: You can
[2591.06] Jack: you laugh but you know, like we had been and one one hand
[2600.54] Jack: controller mods have have the other Joyce analog input at the
[2606.62] Jack: bottom and you use press it against your leg and that's all
[2611.74] Stephen: right. Yeah.
[2613.46] Jack: Hmm. Yeah. You are very
[2617.54] Stephen: I'm bringing is the bottom sketch when Richie plays
[2621.06] Stephen: cricket.
[2622.34] Jack: Yeah, yeah. And you looked longingly as you polished the
[2626.22] Koel: ball.
[2630.78] Koel: Yeah, I was gonna say something else that we sort of didn't
[2633.06] Koel: touch on yet. But do you guys see the sort of speculation of
[2637.7] Koel: the least about the GoPro hero 11 mini?
[2641.14] Stephen: Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's amazing what mostly for rendering things
[2644.94] Stephen: these days.
[2646.62] Curry: Yeah, we got a picture in case anybody hasn't seen it.
[2649.46] Curry: Oh, yeah.
[2650.06] Stephen: Yeah, you haven't seen it already. Just search Twitter
[2653.94] Stephen: GoPro 11 mini.
[2656.42] Curry: Let's see.
[2658.26] Stephen: It is unsurprisingly a smaller version of a GoPro. Oh my god,
[2663.34] Stephen: would you believe it?
[2665.42] Stephen: It's as though someone took the image and then selectively
[2668.14] Stephen: shrunk it along the along the z axis. It's incredible. How did
[2673.1] Stephen: they do it? No idea.
[2673.9] Koel: Supposedly this guy with the watermark on there, or
[2681.02] Koel: somebody that leaked it is somewhat reputable. I don't
[2684.34] Koel: know. Like, that's what I just happened, but it's it's not a
[2688.74] Stephen: real product is a render. Let's be clear. So yeah, of course.
[2691.78] Stephen: Yeah, they may be going to release it. But that is not a
[2694.9] Stephen: real thing in the flesh. That is a product render. I wonder if
[2698.62] Curry: what happens is GoPro releases this and then gauges it to
[2702.26] Curry: reaction from people to see if they're excited and then say,
[2704.42] Curry: Oh, we should build it. Yeah, people are excited about it. I
[2708.34] Curry: mean, to be honest, like, I was reading about it, people were
[2711.62] Koel: saying that, you know, again, this isn't like a true, I don't
[2716.54] Koel: know how true it is. But people were saying that it was somewhere
[2719.54] Koel: around like the 110 to 120 gram weight, which if that's true,
[2725.06] Koel: that's like, that's kind of too heavy compared to a session. But
[2728.66] Koel: it is how much does a GoPro nine or 10 weight?
[2733.22] Stephen: That's just what I was checking. I think geometric tons. 1.22
[2738.22] Stephen: pounds. What the is a pound of those things the Americans use
[2745.26] Curry: to measure 153 grams. Okay, so so this suits right here. So yeah,
[2750.94] Koel: so what I was doing is 33 grams of that. So yeah, what I was
[2754.94] Koel: saying is like, okay, so if a full size GoPro is, you know,
[2758.42] Koel: that way, this is 110 to 120, which isn't, I mean, I guess that
[2763.9] Koel: is a reasonable amount less, but it's still not a session. But if
[2769.7] Koel: it packs the punch, I would GoPro 10 or better since it's
[2773.22] Koel: the 11. And it's a little heavier. I mean, it seems like
[2776.66] Koel: it could be a pretty awesome option. I don't know. What do
[2779.74] Koel: you guys think?
[2780.86] Koel: I like the idea. I mean, I think the 10 is far too heavy, really
[2787.36] Curry: to go on a regular quad. It's kind of like the after the seven,
[2792.92] Curry: everything started getting heavier and heavier. And you're
[2794.76] Curry: like, this is a bit silly. Where's this going? So it needs
[2797.4] Curry: it. And I think the bones is a overpriced be not available for
[2801.6] Curry: us in the UK anyway. And something that looks like it
[2806.32] Curry: would take a hit, like a regular GoPro and isn't as heavy as
[2811.08] Curry: can only be a good thing.
[2812.64] Stephen: I'm frustrated by the pay more for less that we've seen with
[2816.56] Stephen: the bones. And also the fact that the cost of modern GoPros is
[2822.44] Stephen: up there with the cost of devices that include a camera
[2826.2] Stephen: and do a lot more than just a camera. The price model seems to
[2831.44] Stephen: have just gotten out of control. There's they've got no
[2833.56] Stephen: competition, and it's too expensive.
[2835.8] Stephen: Yeah, you're not necessarily following the camera. You're
[2838.84] Koel: paying for the brand name to rate. So sorry,
[2845.12] Curry: think of the bones as the the GoPro Racing Edition, where
[2848.6] Curry: they've taken the car and they stripped it out. They've made
[2851.56] Curry: it lighter and they charge you an extra 50 grand. It's kind of
[2853.96] Curry: like that. Aston Martin do it Porsche all the time. Expensive
[2859.08] Stephen: versions of paying to get a 5000 unit limited run of something
[2864.12] Stephen: that's normally done in 200,000 unit runs.
[2868.72] Koel: The audio gets has there's been serious rumors of a small
[2870.92] Koel: Google Pro for a while now. Yeah, there's been there's been
[2873.16] Koel: rumors about that since literally the session five,
[2875.48] Koel: which has been what, like, five years or something like that.
[2878.92] Stephen: It's been a recurring news item, you could almost set your watch
[2882.12] Stephen: by it. Like every time there's a new GoPro version, someone says,
[2886.68] Stephen: are they going to make a new version of the session? And the
[2889.12] Stephen: answer so far has been no. And every time there's been a new
[2893.48] Stephen: product launch, someone's mocked up something that looks like the
[2896.76] Stephen: session, but with slightly updated corporate styling. And
[2900.08] Stephen: everyone's gotten really excited and pissed themselves over it.
[2903.4] Stephen: So color me skeptical. If this does happen, fine. But it's
[2909.2] Stephen: happened every single time they've released the GoPro, seven,
[2912.6] Stephen: eight, nine and 10. So
[2914.6] Koel: and everyone's like, Oh, the session's coming. The session's
[2917.24] Koel: coming. And then what was it run Canada for the five orange.
[2922.52] Koel: Fox here did the Fox your box. And DJI has got the action to
[2926.6] Koel: apparently the action three coming.
[2930.6] Stephen: Yeah, I mean, talk about like, how much camera 150 quid will
[2934.12] Stephen: get you? That's more interesting to me. That run and thumb pro is
[2938.16] Stephen: about 100 quid. How much camera would 150 quid get you? Would it
[2942.4] Stephen: be something that will get you close enough to a GoPro that you
[2945.16] Stephen: wouldn't complain? I mean, you wouldn't cry bitter, bitter
[2948.48] Stephen: tears when you smashed it?
[2950.64] Koel: Well, I see. I got the run cam five orange. And I, I was kind
[2956.0] Koel: of like, I bought the session. I was like, Oh, I love this
[2958.92] Koel: session. I do not want to destroy it because it's a
[2960.96] Koel: magical unicorn. So then I bought the run cam five orange.
[2964.12] Koel: And I was like, Oh, this is pretty good. I'll be at the the
[2968.44] Koel: super view isn't quite as super as the GoPro. But it's also not
[2973.92] Koel: as durable. One hit and it's done. And but I still love the
[2980.68] Koel: GoPro. The good the session is still
[2983.92] Stephen: about the orange there or
[2986.32] Koel: Yeah, the run cam five orange. Yeah. Yeah, it's great. It works.
[2990.52] Koel: It's good. But it's still not as good as a GoPro. I mean, you
[2994.4] Koel: know, it's
[2996.08] Stephen: that's a couple of years old though now maybe four years in
[2999.48] Koel: fact, but the run cam five orange. Yeah.
[3003.96] Koel: Yeah, it's yes, it's up there. But you know what, one thing
[3007.36] Koel: that I did. One thing I did find about the run cam five orange
[3011.92] Koel: was that I seem to like the way that it exposed the image better
[3017.64] Koel: than the session. But again, that's all subjective. And it's
[3021.2] Stephen: nice. I think the main gripe people have with the orange is
[3024.12] Stephen: that people tried to, you know, backport all this gyro flow
[3029.2] Stephen: stuff into it. And for whatever reason, it couldn't hack gyro
[3033.04] Stephen: flow data, it would just give you bad gyro data. Well, not to
[3037.76] Koel: mention that that system was completely flawed. Like when I
[3041.4] Koel: got the, when I first got the run cam five orange, 4k30 non
[3047.2] Koel: super view just didn't work. It just made a corrupt file. And
[3051.2] Koel: then basically they had codecs on it that just didn't actually
[3054.56] Koel: work. So I brought it to their attention with a bunch of emails
[3057.56] Koel: back and forth. And then I had a lot of complaints because I
[3060.92] Koel: wanted to try it not just in the super view for other purposes,
[3064.28] Koel: not just drone related. And eventually actually a new
[3068.8] Koel: firmware didn't come out and it fixed it, which was nice. And
[3071.92] Koel: that's around the time when gyro flow was introduced to the run
[3075.64] Koel: cam five orange. I think it was about maybe six months or more
[3079.08] Koel: ago.
[3080.72] Stephen: For pilots like you that are flying analog, it'd be neat to
[3083.8] Stephen: see something like the run cam hybrid that could do gyro flow
[3087.32] Stephen: as well. Like just put it into your actual FBV camera.
[3092.72] Koel: Yeah. Although I for me, I mean, I'm, I don't want to say
[3096.96] Koel: my anti gyro flow. I'm just like, I don't necessarily need
[3100.48] Koel: stabilization. It's like you get your quad flying well, you know,
[3104.84] Koel: maybe a little stabilization would be nice. But I don't know, I
[3108.12] Koel: just don't want the hassle of having to do too much mess
[3110.52] Stephen: around with cadex Tarsier or the run cam hybrid. No, no, those
[3117.08] Curry: were like a 19 year amount. Sorry.
[3120.04] Curry: I've got some Tarsier. They work quite nice. One of the
[3123.28] Curry: problems with the the early versions of like, let's do an
[3128.88] Curry: HD camera and FPV camera all in one is they did it with one
[3131.92] Curry: lens. The FPV camera always suffered. So the Tarsier had
[3137.32] Curry: pretty good FPV camera and the recordings quite nice on as
[3140.24] Curry: well. I haven't actually used the run cam one, I don't think
[3143.44] Curry: but I've got about three or four Tarsiers kicking around.
[3145.92] Stephen: Right. That's why I was calling out the Tarsier and the hybrid
[3149.28] Stephen: because those were kind of the culmination. Whereafter a series
[3152.8] Stephen: of light aborted launches are trying to do everything with a
[3155.52] Stephen: single lens FPV and HD recording. Both run cam and cadex
[3160.6] Stephen: produced a system that had an FPV camera with a separate lens
[3165.56] Stephen: for the HD camera and they put them both in a 19 mil mount.
[3169.92] Stephen: They kind of admitted that you can do both in a single camera.
[3173.6] Jack: So, so we all agree that the the GoPro Hero 11 mini, let's face
[3187.4] Jack: it, GoPro would not give the steam of their piss to us. They're
[3194.28] Jack: not going to do it.
[3198.0] Curry: It's like they're selling so many GoPros 10s and the people, the
[3202.2] Curry: majority of people that are using them are the people that
[3205.6] Curry: are out just doing general filming. So they want the camera
[3208.16] Curry: on the front. They want to strap it to helmets or whatever.
[3212.24] Curry: Give them to us and we just smashed them up and ask for new
[3214.68] Curry: ones all the time. It's not in their interest to like, oh, we
[3217.68] Curry: got to help these drone pilots out. They keep smashing our
[3219.84] Curry: cameras.
[3220.32] Stephen: Section five was so popular with FPV pilots is because it was
[3224.92] Stephen: good value. And it was good value because it was like one of
[3228.56] Stephen: the main GoPro cameras. It wasn't a weird camera. They
[3233.2] Stephen: stripped down for FPV enthusiasts. It was like one of
[3236.12] Stephen: their main cameras. And if they create a one off for FPV
[3239.84] Stephen: enthusiasts, because their main camera lines too heavy and too
[3242.92] Stephen: big, then it's going to be really expensive because they're
[3246.04] Stephen: not going to be doing the volume.
[3248.0] Curry: Yeah, I mean, it's going to suggest that the sessions weren't
[3251.8] Curry: successful in the mainstream as much as the proper cameras were
[3256.6] Curry: because people wanted to see what they were looking at most
[3259.76] Curry: of the time when they're trying to line their shots up.
[3262.2] Stephen: Well, to the point where they couldn't really do a lot with
[3265.96] Stephen: the optics to make it look better. So what they had to do
[3268.68] Stephen: was then stick features on the side to justify a new revision.
[3273.12] Stephen: You see that a lot with products where the main focus of the
[3276.04] Stephen: product is basically being perfected. And so what they do
[3280.08] Stephen: is then they put features that you don't really want on the
[3282.4] Stephen: side of the product and sell it as a new version, often with
[3286.48] Stephen: some must have features software locked into the product, for
[3289.36] Stephen: example.
[3291.2] Jack: Yeah, yeah, I mean, the mighty car mods guys use sessions on
[3296.12] Jack: their on their helmet for helmet games.
[3299.36] Koel: Yeah.
[3301.68] Koel: Well, what I was gonna say about the the bone, like, I would say
[3304.88] Koel: the bones was like the FPV, you know, like, okay, FPV guys, you
[3309.4] Koel: get the bones. I still feel like there's a lot of use cases for
[3312.36] Koel: like a more small, compact, durable, no screen action cam
[3316.72] Koel: that looks amazing and shoots amazing, you know, stable
[3319.96] Koel: footage where, you know, like Jack said, like on a skydiver's
[3325.08] Koel: helmet or a car, you know, racecar driver's helmet, stuff
[3328.68] Koel: like that, where you might not necessarily want to have a huge
[3331.76] Koel: camera. I'm just hoping I'm like, fingers crossed. Like,
[3335.92] Koel: come on, guys.
[3336.4] Jack: I used in the cockpit, let's face it, if you're in a car, you
[3340.96] Jack: haven't got that, that bit of space, you've only got really
[3345.76] Jack: the side of your head. And if the camera is really big, it's
[3349.6] Jack: just going to count a lever. And you're gonna have a stiff neck.
[3354.0] Jack: It's like back in the day with a 90s phone. Dutch tilt. Is that
[3360.2] Jack: racist? I don't know. If it is, I'm sorry.
[3365.84] Stephen: It would be great to ask themselves, how small can we make
[3369.72] Stephen: this? And then just tell everyone the smallest possible
[3374.24] Stephen: camera. It feels like 90s kind of push features.
[3380.86] Koel: Exactly. That kind of funny talking about Jack.
[3383.86] Stephen: Oh, my God. How much of a hipster? How you went out and
[3386.18] Stephen: bought that? Because there's no way you owned that in your
[3388.62] Stephen: lifetime.
[3389.98] Koel: No, so actually, I got this off of basically like, well, you
[3394.98] Koel: read the number.
[3396.82] Koel: Yes, I will. But I will explain later. So I actually got it as a
[3400.1] Koel: prop for a music video that I was shooting for an artist. And
[3402.98] Koel: it was like, I think I got it for like three bucks off of a
[3405.58] Koel: guy and I'm like a local buy and sell thing. It actually still
[3409.14] Koel: works if I plug it in. Model number, let's see. Do I know how
[3415.18] Koel: to do this? Wait, no, probably. Okay. Hold on. Yeah. But yeah,
[3423.34] Koel: these are these are massive. I can't. Okay, there we go.
[3425.62] Koel: Batteries. And battery is not that swollen, surprisingly. Okay,
[3430.9] Koel: so Motorola 51 10s of the loft.
[3437.62] Koel: I don't know if that tells you
[3440.9] Jack: a number.
[3442.54] Stephen: Ha ha. Now we know your serial number. We can steal this old
[3446.22] Stephen: phone. Ha ha. Oh, no.
[3449.34] Curry: Yeah, the first phone I had, and the SIM card was credit card
[3453.74] Curry: size yet to shut the whole thing in. Yeah, I don't even know
[3458.65] Koel: where the SIM card. I don't even know if it has a slot for us.
[3463.17] Jack: Look for a full size slot at the bottom.
[3465.93] Jack: I literally think, yeah, you're right. Norquad sure we got the
[3470.17] Jack: bones for FPV. But we can't bash with it. It's way too fragile.
[3474.73] Jack: I literally think that they've kind of looked at us as a
[3478.21] Jack: complete hindrance. And like some sort of cost sinkhole. And
[3484.05] Jack: yeah, you know, if you
[3487.05] Stephen: out of their own official apps, you can't configure it properly
[3490.05] Stephen: with the app, you need to use the screen. Whereas what people
[3493.85] Stephen: would actually want is Oh, what's the best touchscreen
[3497.17] Stephen: device that I've got to configure my camera? It's not
[3499.45] Stephen: the camera, it's the phone. So let me just pick up my phone and
[3503.25] Stephen: use that GoPro intent on going pushing people away from the
[3508.01] Stephen: easiest route.
[3509.81] Koel: Yeah, I was actually a little bit upset for a while because with
[3512.81] Koel: the session, they took away the ability to change protein
[3516.09] Koel: settings within the app. And which they used to have that
[3519.85] Koel: setting before you can actually change, you know, your white
[3522.09] Koel: balance here. Oh, you know, whatever parameters and written
[3527.69] Koel: apparently in recent updates of the app, they brought it back.
[3530.97] Koel: So that was a good thing. But I just use the QR code with the
[3534.09] Koel: labs firmware now.
[3538.17] Stephen: But they could make a camera that just has a battery at no
[3541.57] Stephen: screen. And it's got great optics. And it's got great
[3544.25] Stephen: stabilization. And it's rugged. It's got a nice metal chassis.
[3549.17] Stephen: But they're not doing it, are they? Whatever reason.
[3553.61] Jack: They shouldn't hate us. They, you know, they hate us and they
[3557.73] Jack: wouldn't give us the steam off their pets.
[3560.29] Koel: But we love them. We need to show them more love. And then
[3562.93] Koel: they'll be like, Oh, yes, FPV boys will end girls. Let's
[3568.45] Stephen: boil inside. I think that they're clearly the marketing
[3572.29] Stephen: team wants to boast of new products. And a new product like
[3576.33] Stephen: the run cam thumb pro, while it's exactly what we need, is not
[3580.97] Stephen: very boasty product. It's not very exciting. Like it's a
[3583.85] Stephen: camera. It takes really good recordings. It stabilizes your
[3588.57] Stephen: video. This is the pro thing. Is that the one you're struggling
[3595.92] Stephen: with?
[3596.24] Curry: Yeah, the pro one is is still got a problem if you put it
[3599.72] Curry: on like a proper size quad. I think the problem is we'd have
[3602.8] Curry: a lot more options if GoPro didn't own and defend very
[3607.72] Curry: heavily their patent on in camera stabilization, because
[3612.04] Curry: it basically says no one else can do stabilization in this
[3615.8] Curry: one pass situation, you have to take the file out, you have to
[3618.32] Curry: cock about with it on gyro flow, or whatever. And that's that's
[3623.12] Curry: the major advantage GoPro has. But if anybody goes and brings
[3628.48] Curry: out something similar, they will absolutely come after them
[3631.16] Curry: because that's the
[3633.88] Curry: yes, everyone hates patents and bad. They're just made for
[3637.48] Curry: companies to trade with each other to stop anybody small
[3640.12] Jack: coming up. Yep. Yeah.
[3644.36] Jack: Well, like iPhone have to pay a patent for like, real timing.
[3652.48] Jack: You know, I stabilize each
[3653.96] Stephen: probably do that secret Masonic handshake, you know.
[3657.4] Curry: Yeah, they literally they they literally will swap say, okay,
[3660.92] Curry: we won't see you for that one. If you if we can use this one of
[3663.68] Curry: yours, and you don't see us for that one. Yeah, which is which
[3667.12] Curry: is fine if you're big companies, but if you're someone else
[3669.16] Stephen: become companies, we'll be paying war chests. Like we
[3672.0] Stephen: won't see you for that. If you don't see us for this, and then
[3674.68] Stephen: we won't see you for that in the next product. If you don't see
[3677.16] Stephen: us for that, call it a partnership. We've both got 15
[3680.56] Stephen: guns pointed at each other's heads. But we promise not to
[3682.96] Stephen: pull the trigger, yo.
[3687.2] Jack: No worries. Unfortunately, that is all we have time for. You've
[3692.72] Jack: been listening to Let's Drone out. And would you like to
[3696.6] Jack: outro everyone, Stephen?
[3700.48] Koel: Oh, but shouldn't we talk about, you know, all of our lovely
[3704.0] Koel: patrons and all that stuff.
[3706.88] Stephen: Patrons, you are so lovely. Thank you. So, so.
[3711.24] Jack: Also, next week, we will have Menace R.C.
[3719.16] Stephen: If you want to be a patron of this show, please go to
[3722.32] Stephen: patreon.com and look for Let's Drone out. You can join us on a
[3727.12] Stephen: number of different levels. You can even sponsor us to be an
[3731.0] Stephen: editor of the show. You can go even further in your fiscal
[3734.56] Stephen: irresponsibility and we will dedicate the show to you, to
[3738.08] Stephen: you, and only you. We will talk about whatever you want.
[3741.84] Stephen: But that'll be amazing.
[3745.76] Stephen: Please, please, please sign up on Patreon.
[3749.32] Jack: Okay, who will be joined by tonight, Steve?
[3752.48] Stephen: We have been joined by everyone's favourite, Curry
[3756.52] Stephen: Kitten.
[3757.72] Stephen: Goodbye. One day.
[3759.44] Stephen: Our man in Canada and media expert, Cole Anderson.
[3765.2] Stephen: See you.
[3766.48] Stephen: The inimitable Jack.
[3769.8] Jack: I don't even know what I mean, but thank you.
[3773.16] Stephen: People can't copy you. You're too rare. I'm myself, Stephen.
[3777.8] Stephen: Thank you, our wonderful patrons. See you next week.
[3781.52] Stephen: Cheers.
[3781.96] Stephen: Thank you. Good night.
[3783.48] Koel: Thanks, guys. Bye.
[3785.04] Koel: Telemetry lost.