=== Let's Drone Out — Episode 370 === Title: LDO 370 - The Story Of FRSky Recorded: 2022-09-29 Hosts: Wayne "CurryKitten" Andrews, Stephen "Belrik" Howell, Jack "Brightontillifly" Nash, Andrew "Frank" Hyams Guest(s): (none recorded) Total audience: 2,043 Platforms: YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05XAxUg0abU); SoundCloud (http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/feeds.soundcloud.com/stream/1354891807-letsdroneout-ldo-370-the-story-of-frsky.mp3) ===================================== #letsdroneout #LDO #podcast #drone #mulitrotor #quadcopter #fatshark #impulseRC #ethix #brightontillifly #TeamBlackSheep #FPVUK #BLHeli #lipo #KISSULTRA #KissESC #esc #FlyDuino #JoshuaBardwell #Skitzo #Alien5 #MrSteele #FPVRacing #MiniAirShow #LondonFPV #UKFPV #betaflight #fpvdrones #FPVRacing #MiniQuad #podcast #fpvwing let's drone out #BrightontillIfly #Fpv, #Drone, #Drone racing #Quadcopter, #Gopro, #Drone,, #KissFc, #KissEsc's #FPVwing #LondonFPV, Uk, #Easa #betaflight #brightontillifly #FPV #FPVdrones #letsdroneout #interview, #Jack. Brighton fpv, #Naze32, #Help, #Fix #Bug #blhelli, #flyduno #Let'sdroneout, Alien 5, FPV, Drone, #MiniQuads #Turnigy #MiniQuad #Racing #FPVRacing #FPV #FPVBrighton #FPVUK #lipo#rottingdean #MiniAirshow, #FPV [0.0] Jack: three two one perfect sorry buddy hello and you're listening to what drone out and special thank [12.16] Jack: you to our lovely patrons that help donate so that we can pay the editor to remove the swear words [18.16] Jack: and silly things we say massive thank you to kolos campos art folk now sam darma on with the show [59.28] Jack: hello and you're listening to let drone out [63.44] Jack: tonight we are joined by everyone's favorite curry kitten [68.32] Jack: and everyone's favorite moustache steven good evening and everyone's favorite [77.52] Jack: i'm bright until i fly hello and steven you're starting us off with a hot topic [85.36] Stephen: this week we thought we'd talk about instead of dividing opinion by talking about things some [90.0] Stephen: people own and things some people don't thought maybe we'd go for something that everyone owns [94.88] Stephen: i think on this show a vendor that we've literally all bought into at one time or another myself [101.92] Stephen: jack and curry i could say with some confidence we all own their kit we've all used it we've all [107.04] Stephen: had some great flying days with it in the past as well but things have gotten a little bit [112.64] Stephen: interesting for them and there was a show that happened recently where one of their reps was [117.36] Stephen: talking to bruce and a few others and just highlighted a few topics that i thought we [121.52] Stephen: could go over so the topic of the show is one that tracks the rise and change of fr sky [132.86] Stephen: a company who really represented fpv when it shot to popularity 2014 2015 16 who then tried to do [145.26] Stephen: some very curious things built an empire threw the empire away and now seem in a strange position to [153.82] Stephen: be annoyed and convinced that that was everyone else's fault so thought we'd kind of drill drill [160.06] Stephen: into that and maybe the guys here can start talking about like when they first came across [165.98] Stephen: fr sky kit because i gather it was quite an eye opener when it arrived hmm and it was it was even [173.5] Curry: before then i think when i first started in fpv in 2012 before the tyrannis there was the free [180.78] Curry: sky module and back then uh guys that were doing fpv they were all buying um second hand photographers [188.86] Curry: these were like 35 meg based photographers which are really nice quality radios to hold [194.78] Curry: and they were fitting the internal free sky mods and back then we were using things like the [201.02] Curry: i think it's d8 um or d8 r2 or something like that which was like an eight channel receiver [207.66] Curry: had twin um d4 r2 antennas the d4 r2 is the smaller one which you'd use in course in fixed wings [216.3] Curry: the d8 d4 was was used in quads back when you could um you could change it to ppm and it's [223.02] Curry: like oh my god you don't have to use individual servo cables you can use ppm this is amazing [227.66] Curry: we use this forever that uh that d8 r2 got me to like um three and a half kilometers in the plane [236.46] Curry: really good they had telemetry which was the first thing now back in the day um because one [242.62] Curry: of my first radios was the the turnigy 9x and you fit the module and then the module beeps at you [249.34] Curry: so it's like beep means you're starting to lose telemetry beep beep it's like you're getting [253.26] Curry: further away free beeps is like it's critical turnaround and that was before the days of having [258.46] Curry: like rsi on the screen that was amazing if you'd used the the fly sky kit which a lot of us started [265.9] Curry: out with you didn't you didn't get any warning you just crashed if it went out of range it's [270.62] Curry: like splat on the floor so this was this was amazing stuff and when the um the tyrannis came [275.74] Curry: out it was like because if even buying like a second hand photaba radio was really really [282.38] Curry: expensive um free sky came along released the tyrannis and prior to that the the 9x was good [289.98] Curry: if you did the modifications and you got er9x on it before um finger going back a bit further [300.94] Stephen: to when these guys were frisky did any of you guys use their original products [307.5] Stephen: define the original products i think these were the fast compatible receivers [314.53] Stephen: because what a fast guy doesn't like people to remember is that they actually [318.61] Stephen: got their start cloning photaba for receivers uh doing the fasst receivers [326.61] Curry: oh right no i didn't i guess some people might have if they were back far enough [331.81] Stephen: which makes the rest of the tail get like from a normal level of irony to just meteoric levels [338.13] Curry: of irony yeah those and i've still i've still got some of um oh yeah not so much the crs but [345.09] Curry: yeah some of these guys i had unfortunately they are really similar yeah yes it it's it becomes a [354.77] Curry: kettle pot black thing yeah yeah before before open tx there was er9x which was a replacement [360.85] Curry: firmware for your um turnigy 9x radio or similar 9x but when the tyrannis came out it's pretty much [369.17] Curry: like it blew everything away because it had all these switches it had rotary dials it had gimbals [376.05] Curry: it had a screen um it would run uh open tx as it was then and very similar to er9x and it was like [384.53] Curry: oh my god this is amazing it had a built-in module so you didn't have to add anything to it [393.01] Curry: and and ready to go solution a lot with it and and they were the i think the fpv radio for [400.29] Stephen: several several years as all anybody had yeah and and a proper usable screen i guess a lot of [407.01] Stephen: radios back then would have been the cheap ones wouldn't have had screens as well right [413.62] Curry: um i suppose before before that you you had like the fataba and the spectrum stuff they were sort [420.58] Curry: of it wasn't they didn't have screens it was they they were very sort of set in their ways it's [425.22] Curry: like you had like a picture of a little plane come up and then this button would make it change [429.78] Curry: something and then all the switches were allocated to certain things and you couldn't it wasn't [434.5] Curry: customizable then you just had to use like their model and that was it yeah exactly your whole [439.62] Curry: flying club at exactly the same model bang on some people still don't like the fact that you [445.78] Curry: could do any button to any button which which none of us get but yeah that was that was the [450.66] Curry: revolution it's like you could set it up exactly how you wanted the range was really good um as [456.26] Curry: soon as the xn plus came out and we're moving on a few years now that was like the quad receiver [464.02] Curry: um decent range you had um s bus which back in the day before people like um express r s said this [475.14] Curry: is legacy it was amazing it was very fast um it was very small you still got a really good range [482.5] Stephen: from it really easy to install and for fbvrs it did cool tricks like output the channel strength [489.22] Stephen: on one of your uh one of your outputs so that you could look it into your rsd on channel 16 you [495.62] Curry: had the rssi so the first thing you did once you got out the bag was have to flash it which was a [501.22] Curry: whole another interesting thing about how to plug it in the back of your radio and do the [505.46] Stephen: and if you didn't have a tyrannis like me because i had a a deviation handset i have a usb pc dongle [512.18] Stephen: that i used to flash these the s port adapter that like hardly anyone bought and you have to [518.58] Stephen: use a little utility and power on the receiver at just the right moment and then click flash [524.02] Stephen: within like five seconds to get the flash going that was always a challenge fun times it was almost [531.46] Jack: worse the freestyle flash module thing because you had to then buy a diode um the board that [541.78] Jack: i don't know inverted a signal or something and um you know to load up the the uh [551.78] Jack: the bin file connect it uh only when it's ready to load for it to then flash there's a nightmare [561.3] Stephen: speaking of inverters that the whole fr sky experience is somewhat mired by their use of [567.14] Stephen: inverters everywhere rather than just outputting signal in in the format that the other end expects [574.74] Stephen: it to be they seem to always insist on an inverter i'm never quite sure why that's happened yeah i [582.35] Curry: remember actually even on their receivers when it said it would say inverted it would mean normal [588.75] Curry: because all of freestyle signals are inverted so and actually if it's labeled inverted it means [593.15] Curry: it's not inverted because freestyle thinks everything should be inverted weirdly and it's [598.91] Stephen: and it had this nonsense situation where you couldn't connect it to like an f4 flight [604.27] Stephen: controller unless you had a special built-in inverter on one of the pads which meant when [608.75] Stephen: f port came along and it needed an inverted tx and you had to run that half duplex that [614.91] Stephen: pretty much no one was able to use f port because unless you had an f3 or an f7 with like software [621.31] Stephen: programmable inversion most people had f4s you weren't able to to use it unless you had one of [629.47] Stephen: very few flight controllers that bothered to put an inverter on one of the tx pads as well [635.95] Curry: yes which is why they started releasing receivers with an inverted and a non-inverted pad on bizarre [643.95] Stephen: and that's what made me actually go outside the fr sky ecosystem i think i had 14 or 15 xm pluses [650.91] Stephen: installed in various quads at one point um and i ended up buying over sky f6 receivers because [658.99] Stephen: they were compatible with fr sky but they could do f port without inverting it so you could just [664.91] Stephen: plug it into a normal tx line and it would work on any f4 flight controller and you'd get all your [670.91] Curry: telemetry and stuff yeah but it wasn't it wasn't f port that screwed them was it it was their [678.43] Curry: response to crossfire appearing i think i think this comes first we haven't we haven't researched [684.43] Stephen: this properly but in in no we have to go back a little bit to really discuss like what tripped [690.11] Stephen: them up and it was fundamentally like so their their protocol got popular and pascal the whatever [697.55] Stephen: who does the multi protocol the multi protocol actual he figured it out and he submitted this [704.19] Stephen: spec that used to cc 2500 chip to work with their far sky kit and you'd expect them to be happy [711.39] Stephen: because all of a sudden there's a ton of more ton more hardware in their ecosystem and they're [715.79] Stephen: becoming dominant force in the industry and there's basically no one using anything but their code [721.63] Stephen: but they saw this as as an attempt at cloning again kind of rich because a few years previous [728.59] Stephen: to that barely only three or four years they were making their start by cloning for taba um [734.91] Stephen: and copying their protocol but they really hated this and so they they they kind of complained [741.63] Stephen: and and that there was a rate uh tried to bully radiomaster and bully jumper and they would go [748.67] Stephen: to stockists who sold fr sky kit and threatened to not deal with them unless they refused to [754.59] Stephen: stop stocking radiomaster and jumper and basically tried to bully the competitors and [760.83] Stephen: the cloners out of the market instead of saying oh wow our protocol is taking on the likes of [765.55] Stephen: crossfire it's going to become ubiquitous they thought well our protocol equals our models and [771.07] Stephen: they can go and make their own protocols which in the long run has proved to be not the correct [777.15] Stephen: response i would say in terms of revenue okay i was at the time that i couldn't remember which [782.83] Curry: bit came first so the first bit is then they got upset about the clones because there were lots of [790.83] Curry: you were literally buying i remember i was talking about this to andy rc not long ago [795.07] Curry: and there was a time where we were getting like a couple of quads through the door every week [800.11] Curry: from lights and gear vest and yeah banggood and they always had some free sky compatible receiver [807.39] Curry: in it and it was just a ready to fly yeah and you know the radio was and not the people weren't [814.59] Stephen: spending the 15 quid on each receiver but when they spent a couple of hundred quid it was always [819.15] Stephen: the genuine fr sky radio they're going for i was very much there were no cloned radios just cloned [824.35] Curry: receivers at this point and it was it was mostly it was all d8 wasn't it that i don't remember being [832.75] Curry: a huge number of d16 clones i think some came along later but at the beginning it was d8 receivers [839.71] Jack: yeah radio master were the people who had the little run-in with the d16 mode [848.43] Stephen: yeah so d8 was the one that came out originally with that the multiple multi protocol module [854.11] Stephen: furore and um and d16 was only added much later and this would get to be something of [865.23] Stephen: a sign of things to come i guess because after moving from d8 to d16 to try and reduce cloning [871.07] Stephen: and and make them more sophisticated and not documenting their protocol fr sky seized on this [877.23] Stephen: as kind of the way to take control of the market um a move which would kind of repeatedly backfire [883.39] Curry: on them i think it was an interesting thing because at that point as far as fpvs and quads [891.95] Curry: were going everyone was already using d16 because they were using the x series receivers which for [896.99] Curry: d16 based so it was not like frisco were losing loads of business it's like oh all our x or all [904.67] Curry: our d8 receivers because they really weren't selling time they were they were selling the um [911.39] Curry: the the xn pluses or the the x8 or the the l9r's i've still got a couple of those the long range [917.39] Stephen: receivers i remember the xn plus is routinely being out of stock in the uk and having to you [923.71] Stephen: know have a couple on back order from bangor and other places yeah they were hard to get because [928.19] Curry: they were so popular so and the timeline wise i'm trying to think of the catastrophic things [933.71] Curry: one of which was obviously v2 of the firmware one was crossfire not working well with the radios [941.87] Curry: on purpose and the other is the the r9 battle which which came first in the timeline do we know [948.59] Stephen: well i think that that crossfire thing is an interesting one whether they made a bad radio [953.55] Stephen: and it didn't work with crossfire or whether they saw crossfire and purposefully made a slower radio [958.43] Stephen: that wouldn't work with crossfire it's i think it's that one because if you've got for example [964.51] Curry: this came about when the uh is it the x7 the great big white one the cute cute cute kind of angular [971.79] Curry: one i i had one of those one of the very first ones i don't know if it was a prototype of what [976.91] Curry: and that worked fine that would work on the full rate and i think nj had the same thing [982.51] Curry: he's like well this is fine it works for me by the time it got to public release [986.83] Curry: suddenly it wasn't working at full rate so you have to think did they not want people using [994.03] Curry: crossfire again people were buying the radio this was the radio to have and if we just pause and [1000.91] Stephen: drill down on that that the cause was that they used an essentially cheaper and less capable [1005.71] Stephen: inverter which wouldn't cope with fast signal transition so it would smooth off the top of [1011.47] Stephen: those signal peaks which meant that fast board rates just didn't work it just smooched them all [1017.55] Curry: out so the fast signals wouldn't work properly right yeah um and yeah so so it seemed kind of [1027.07] Curry: deliberate and it was kind of like i don't understand why why are they actively discouraging [1034.03] Curry: people to use crossfire on their radios you even had tbs saying oh yeah tyrannis great radio until [1041.39] Curry: it started not working which is i guess when they decided to launch the r9 system and you sort of [1048.43] Curry: started to figure out why they were so anti-crossfires because they wanted to push their own [1052.35] Curry: finger long um yeah so the r9 was an interesting thing did did everyone have an r9 because of [1060.43] Curry: course what they did i did not no i missed it you're one of the few because basically um [1067.55] Curry: crossfire was what 100 so quid or something and they decided they were going to launch [1074.43] Curry: or some some time into early r9 they said this you can have it for 30 quid 30 quid a module [1081.87] Curry: something along those lines you can get it the the receiver's very cheap so lots of people went [1088.35] Curry: out and bought it and what they tried to do is get into a price war to try and bump crossfire out [1095.15] Curry: of uh of the ecosystem completely and just replace everything with their r9 [1100.91] Curry: that the problem they had is they really didn't support it very well they didn't talk to the users [1108.35] Curry: they didn't um you could tell them and for a brief moment i was actually talking to people [1114.59] Curry: in freesky and sort of feeding back issues i was having i did quite a lot of videos on the r9 [1120.27] Curry: and saying oh if you if you made things a bit more public and said you're recognizing these [1125.95] Curry: are the problems and these what's going to be fixed in the next update then i think you'd get [1132.11] Curry: a lot a lot better reaction from it and they just said no no we know what we're doing we're just [1136.99] Curry: the update will come and the other day will come we're not going to tell you what's in the update [1140.83] Stephen: we're just going to say there's update and aren't well crossfire a little bit guilty of that as well [1145.87] Stephen: they do a little bit of that magician sort of mystery show don't they it's not uncommon they [1152.83] Curry: do but when when you're new and you've got it you're not particularly well documented and people [1160.03] Curry: are reporting problems to you then i think you've got to say oh we've noticed there's this problem [1164.59] Stephen: we're going to fix it and this was still export based right it still had the inverters and everything [1170.75] Curry: it was both s ports and uh did r9 came along i'm trying to think we're access game yes [1180.67] Curry: when r9 launched i think it was s port it might have been f port as well but it was based on [1187.15] Stephen: accst which was which was their system s port is unidirectional f port was a half duplex [1193.63] Jack: bidirectional yeah one r9n is the name of the receiver yeah well they had a bunch of receivers [1201.95] Curry: say even there's a branch down into having flight controllers with an r9 receiver in it so for a while [1208.91] Curry: they were doing flight controllers there i know because i broke one yeah whilst trying to review [1213.15] Stephen: it what curry was saying about listening to the community really resonated me because with me [1218.83] Stephen: because this discussion with bruce the other night the fr sky guy was saying that oh they [1224.43] Stephen: absolutely want to hear from the community and they want to get people's opinion but if there's one [1229.23] Stephen: thing that stands out like a sore thumb in all of this is that fr sky did what fr sky wanted to do [1236.75] Stephen: and then they went and tried to sell it and at no point did that information flow go in the [1241.23] Stephen: opposite direction it was always we've made this now you buy it pretty much it's just like this is [1247.07] Curry: what it is go go sort out and there were lots of things that didn't seem to either it wasn't [1254.67] Curry: working or it didn't work as expected and it was hard to tell what was expected because it wasn't [1259.79] Curry: documented correctly they shipped them with very poor whip style antennas the RSSI was [1268.03] Curry: jumped all over the place so you didn't really know what your signal strength was you were never [1271.95] Stephen: really sure what RSSI meant i remember this is very much a factor of fr sky where you knew if our [1279.31] Stephen: RSSI went below a certain level you could be in trouble but you were never really sure what that [1284.11] Curry: number represented in exactly so in my testing as well you had RSSI for a channel just like the xn [1291.87] Curry: pluses you also got telemetry RSSI in and i looked at both now i think i had a video where i looked [1298.43] Curry: at both numbers at the same time so i had my my chesty filming my radio showing me the telemetry [1305.07] Curry: whilst on screen and these were completely different numbers and i was like well what's [1310.27] Curry: going on which is which and i'd flown the RSSI down to like six single figures and still had control [1318.83] Curry: and i kind of think well what's a good RSSI and what's a bad RSSI because six you normally [1325.15] Curry: think is on the floor on a normal 2.4 receiver when it drops under 40 pretty much you've lost [1330.83] Curry: signal but when you get down to like single figures you're like well i don't really understand [1334.91] Stephen: what's going on here i remember 40 was always the danger zone with xn pluses like you knew [1340.43] Curry: was about to get bad if you got down to 40 yeah that's that's when it gave you a critical [1346.67] Stephen: warning for uh well that was just a transmitted call out wasn't it i mean yeah yeah but that's [1351.87] Stephen: default yeah the default call so you and this is about something we could point to express LRS [1357.95] Stephen: as like pulling back the curtain on this stuff because they've said oh well actually what [1363.71] Stephen: matters is the number of packets arriving and as long as you've got enough that the FC can respond [1368.75] Stephen: then your link is essentially active and so your link quality is the percentage of packets that [1374.91] Stephen: are actually arriving and RSSI is is now well tends to be measured in decibels per meter and [1382.91] Stephen: you're looking at the strength of the signal so the measured strength the only thing that you've [1388.59] Stephen: got to worry about is what the noise floor is because if that signal is above the noise floor [1394.59] Stephen: you're good and if it goes below the noise floor you've got a little bit of margin on [1399.07] Stephen: laura for chirp spread spectrum but your fhss or whatever you don't um so it's it's all kind of [1406.83] Stephen: what your link budget is above that RSSI value and i think with frsky you kind of got an indication [1415.39] Stephen: of how strong the received signal was but you didn't really know about the environment you're [1420.27] Stephen: flying in so if you're flying around a bunch of wi-fi or cell towers or something things could go [1425.87] Stephen: horribly wrong very quickly because you didn't have a clue as to what the rest of the noise in [1431.39] Curry: the environment was like yeah you could go from what looked like a strong signal to rx loss [1438.51] Curry: without anything in between um i mean it it's kind of like you got used to knowing what a bad signal [1446.91] Curry: was based on a number without really but you did that through experience by flying a location [1452.59] Curry: several times yeah yeah so uh yeah so that the problem with r9 was not the fact that r9 was [1462.91] Curry: an inherently bad system i mean it was based on similar hardware to crossfire um [1471.07] Curry: after they launched it and got into this big wall with free um crossfire they they didn't seem to do [1476.51] Curry: anything it's just like oh ignore that in fact let's have let's have a new version of it which [1484.67] Curry: will use this new access protocol and i guess this is where we come into access and acct or acct [1493.87] Stephen: version too you can go to the just the similar hard work crossfire it was actually incredibly [1498.51] Stephen: similar the radio chip was uh a semtech sx 1276 in both so the radio uh kind of modulator was was [1510.91] Stephen: the same in both the difference was fr sky used st microelectronics parts to control it [1517.79] Stephen: whereas over in uh tbs land on crossfire they used microchip parts so on one hand st [1525.07] Stephen: microelectronics and the other microchip and actually st microelectronics in the long [1529.63] Stephen: run was the better solution it's massively more popular whereas microchip's kind of a [1535.39] Stephen: a closed ecosystem and pay-to-play um but that contributed in in other interesting ways to r9 [1542.83] Stephen: in the future which we'll get to in a little bit later i guess there was one other difference [1547.39] Curry: there that where crossfire was a little bit more forward looking and freesky said it it was but it [1554.51] Curry: it wasn't um essentially crossfire had larger amounts of flash memory on their receivers which [1560.03] Curry: meant they could flash over the air now freesky promised when r9 launched they would do over the [1566.59] Curry: air updates um so we're like oh that'd be good because then we won't have to like plug them in [1571.07] Curry: and mess around because messing with firmware and having to dig them back out of your [1576.19] Curry: quads was really annoying but it turned out that they they realized they didn't have to flash [1580.91] Curry: memory and they wanted the flash memory in case the flashing went wrong it would basically go back [1585.87] Curry: to the the original one yeah um and they had to launch a completely separate receiver which was [1592.67] Curry: called like the r9mm ota which stood for over the air because that had more flash memory it could [1598.75] Curry: handle it so all the stuff that people bought with the promise of being able to flash over the air [1603.39] Stephen: wouldn't work so yeah just for our listeners generally and with most computers if you're [1608.83] Stephen: dealing with a remote system you have this kind of dual partition stuff you see it a lot in network [1613.79] Stephen: kit you've got an a partition and a b partition when you boot off one of them you update the other [1619.95] Stephen: and if that update fails you haven't trashed the working image so you can fail fail fail [1627.23] Stephen: eventually you get a complete copy and then you can try and boot into it and if the boot goes [1632.27] Stephen: okay you nuke the the old one and that's now your upgrade partition for the next upgrade [1639.5] Curry: right yeah there's a round up so so in the timeline this sounds about the time [1646.7] Curry: where they suddenly went a little bit crazy for all the toys out of the pram um aside from the [1653.74] Curry: fact they introduced access they used it at this weird excuse to say oh you know that firmware [1659.74] Curry: you've been using all your radios for the last eight years there's a critical problem it's very [1665.5] Curry: serious you all need to update to version two of accst ps it's not compatible with any [1674.38] Stephen: i think the critical problem was it would sometimes cause servos to hit the extremes except no one [1681.26] Curry: saw it except for two fr sky testers no no one ever saw this this this was the the largest [1687.98] Curry: pile of bollocks ever ever produced how they how they had the front i never saw it to suggest [1694.22] Curry: this as uh i mean it's literally there in the release notes it's like this addresses a serious [1698.7] Curry: problem where this this could hurt you you need to upgrade to this it was a really badly [1706.46] Curry: disguised attempt very malicious at trying to produce this um encrypted version of firmware [1714.46] Curry: that would stop uh all the cloning which they were suddenly terrified of and wanted to stop [1721.1] Curry: but at that point they really did upset their user base because people had oodles of uh older [1729.26] Curry: older receivers and they didn't want to lose access to it and then they were at that point [1734.54] Curry: they were producing their new access radios their new protocol and they were saying oh by the way [1739.9] Curry: this doesn't work on d8 it will work on d16 we we really suggest you run too i think for a while [1748.22] Curry: they actually removed the images so you couldn't get the earlier so they made this critical [1754.46] Stephen: assumption that everyone was absolutely on board with them and if they said jump the community [1760.7] Stephen: would say how high and when it pushed came to shove people would just turned around and went [1766.78] Stephen: you what you but i've got all this stuff that i can't upgrade i've got like 200 pounds of [1772.94] Stephen: receivers in all these wings that are only d8 capable and i can't upgrade and you're telling me [1779.5] Stephen: that to buy this one new receiver i should throw away all these others and people essentially just [1785.98] Stephen: went no because they the the retailers still had d16 kit with acst and at this point clones were [1797.02] Curry: starting to emerge for d16 as well yeah and this this is where literally freeze guy developed a gap [1804.54] Curry: in the market for other vendors to come in and say hey we've developed a radio it has a multi-protocol [1813.42] Curry: module and you can you can use it with free sky you can use it with spectrum you use it with [1819.18] Stephen: whatever and that'll just work and several months after the launch of access uh the multi-protocol [1826.62] Stephen: module project announced that they supported not just d16 that they called frsky d not just d8 [1833.42] Stephen: they called frsky d they also supported d16 which i think is down as frsky x and they also added [1841.34] Stephen: support for access with frsky x2 i believe um so but no one was using it anyway so it was fairly [1851.58] Curry: pointless because everybody's like i don't want this i think we had a quick poll amongst ourselves [1857.1] Curry: didn't we and said has anybody actually used a regular 2.4 access receiver and there was this [1864.06] Curry: you know a couple of tumbleweeds blew along and nobody did it i set one up one time yesterday [1869.9] Stephen: to test frsky x2 range test it on an spi receiver that's another story um but yeah it was a terrible [1879.18] Stephen: range and that's the only time i've used it everything else is still running acst in d16 [1884.38] Curry: or awesome all d8 receivers yeah i i used access on the r9 the new r9 to test it out and did an [1893.34] Curry: over the air update i was most annoyed and i know you're going to come to this bit later [1899.34] Curry: after i updated that to elrs that's when i found out that frsky did their own over the air thing [1905.02] Curry: with a special chip and it wasn't wi-fi and you couldn't there was no wi-fi chip to update i was i [1909.82] Curry: was most miffed it's like what's wrong with these people why don't you just have a wi-fi chip like [1913.66] Curry: everybody else you have to use that stupid system to update it this episode was recorded in front [1919.58] Frank: of a live online audience downloaded and edited to make sense when it played audio only sensors [1925.26] Frank: to please the itunes people hosted on the internet forwarded through to your podcast provider [1929.42] Frank: downloaded playing on your device and is now playing in your ears all thanks to our patreons [1935.26] Frank: consider joining them and you'll also get other online benefits find out more at patreon.com [1940.94] Stephen: pause slash let's drone out yeah um so i i think i mentioned that i bought a bunch of [1948.38] Stephen: clone receivers so i'm just going to share this what what really amused me was let's put some [1955.26] Stephen: other screen in fact was that the the docs for the clone receivers were just so much better than the [1963.42] Stephen: docs that i was getting with my frsky kit um this one it supported sbus and f port um it supported [1973.5] Stephen: inverted or uninverted f port because hey why not it it it had 20 dbm output uh for the telemetry [1983.9] Stephen: which by frsky kit could do um yeah did up to 16 channel and and all this this crazy stuff um it [1992.38] Stephen: worked just fine they even produced graphs to show how it worked and then frsky would just not show [1998.54] Stephen: any of this stuff whatsoever um and so it really made me think why am i buying the frsky stuff [2007.02] Stephen: like look oh here's it's a diagram put it through a scope just to show you how it works isn't that [2012.46] Stephen: nice this is the manual for it and frsky manuals were were not as complete as this um yeah which [2020.54] Curry: is kind of amusing i mean especially interesting thing is as well that i believe frsky massively [2028.62] Curry: funded the open tx project for quite a long time and they got quite upset when other vendors wanted [2039.66] Curry: to make their radios like open tx compliant so for a while i think you had other vendors using [2045.98] Curry: their own version of a fork of open tx and they had to say things like this is not officially [2052.14] Stephen: supported by open tx and things like that i think the flip side now is that with these ethos [2058.06] Stephen: handsets uh apparently frsky feels that they've paid their dues with htx and they don't need to [2064.54] Stephen: pay for support for anything anymore which is interesting because i think that's you know [2070.38] Stephen: that money has long since evaporated and paid for test equipment and website hosting and things [2075.74] Stephen: um but yet they they feel they've paid their dues and and they shouldn't have to pay anything more [2080.86] Stephen: to support open tx or htx which is uh it's an interesting stance and i think we're [2087.26] Stephen: interested probably seeing how that pans out with the new tandem handsets so this great htx support [2093.58] Curry: this has been our quick summary of the sort of rise and fall if you like of um [2098.06] Curry: frsky but the reason this came up is you watched that um podcast or live stream or whatever and [2105.74] Curry: it was about a rep in the u.s who who there's basically a u.s representative of frsky [2113.74] Curry: they they don't seem to have learned a lesson what what what did you get out of watching that [2118.94] Stephen: there was a lot that went on there to be fair and this guy it seemed like a nice guy he's very [2122.94] Stephen: personable uh a sales marketing sort of tech marketing guy and and he was of the opinion that [2130.22] Stephen: they were a nice company and they had a vision and people should buy into it but the way that's now [2134.78] Stephen: being executed is apparently not to listen to multi-rotor pilots or even particularly [2140.22] Stephen: technically adept fixed wing pilots but the market they're targeting now is very much line of sight [2145.98] Stephen: pilots uh who are baby boomers and don't want to configure their hardware and so frsky are now [2152.54] Stephen: taking this fantastic feature they've built which is the ability to update receive receivers over [2159.5] Stephen: the air and they're selling that into the classic spectrum user base and telling them that this is [2165.5] Stephen: amazing and it's it's a killer feature and they just have to have it because these users apparently [2171.66] Stephen: find this very new and novel and wouldn't expect their receivers to do anything like update over [2177.02] Stephen: the air or host a wi-fi access point so frsky developing ota updates four years too late for [2183.58] Stephen: them it's still new and they're able to you know approach a much higher entry price point [2190.38] Stephen: and charge probably 500 600 for a radio which appears to be what they're doing [2195.74] Stephen: with this very flashy looking gooey based radio running ethos which is not related to uh open [2203.98] Stephen: tx or htx at all it's not compatible with open tx models it's not configured the same way as open tx [2211.98] Stephen: it's totally and utterly different uses an h7 cpu which isn't currently compatible with htx timeline [2219.02] Stephen: on that is early 2023 perhaps if htx chooses to do it um and it's completely different market [2226.06] Stephen: they're going for so they're not going for technically adept users they're going for [2230.54] Stephen: users who have trouble configuring their fixed wing aircraft who want ease of use and basic [2236.54] Stephen: features and who are going to be impressed with the fact that this thing can fly an aircraft [2241.26] Stephen: over a mile away which i think to be honest for me at least i would have thought that was table [2246.94] Stephen: stakes four years ago and and now it's just kind of embarrassing that these are the launch features [2252.62] Stephen: that they're going for it feels very much like they can't impress people and so they're going to [2257.74] Stephen: to people who are more easily impressed and trying to make a play for them and the guy had been [2261.98] Stephen: driving around the u.s selling radios and he was saying he'd sold 17 radios and this was great and [2267.9] Stephen: he'd been to all these flying clubs and and it's a very different fr sky to the one which was seen [2274.46] Stephen: in the hands of pilots as they were you know winning multi gp and showing off brand new hardware [2281.58] Stephen: setting times and doing distance records in the past it's an fr sky that seems to [2287.1] Stephen: be going for an altogether eat different market segment and and maybe [2291.26] Stephen: to be honest it feels like they're just trying to go for easy prey having soured of a market [2299.74] Stephen: that's called them on their bs one too many times to be honest i mean it is a probably a [2307.02] Curry: much bigger market than fpv and it's as far as i know obviously we're not in the u.s and we're not [2313.18] Curry: part of a flying club there is they tend to have all the same radio when you join a club [2318.38] Curry: they're like this is the radio we use get one of these and we'll help you set it up and that's [2322.22] Curry: normally tends to be spectrum i believe in the u.s and of course they they're essentially flying [2327.18] Curry: in circuits line of sight so things don't need to have a range and the fact you can update them over [2332.46] Curry: the air is kind of meaningless to these guys because it's kind of like oh how many how many [2337.58] Curry: servo leads can i plug in because i've got two lots of flaps i've got extra uh tail stuff in [2344.38] Curry: in my special jet and i need all this and that as long as it does that that'll be happy but [2348.46] Curry: if they can get to a point where because these spectrum radios aren't very cheap [2353.18] Curry: you know they come with like but never mind spectrum what about jetty they're trying to [2357.82] Curry: put themselves in the same place as jetty so if they get in there and they're like you can have [2363.58] Curry: all these features and this amazing color screen that's touched and stuff and it's only like $500 [2368.54] Curry: as soon as like flying clubs buy into it and perhaps retailers buy into it there are still [2373.26] Curry: places you can go and buy radios in like stores mostly spectrum and forever uh yep apparently in [2381.42] Curry: the u.s there are still hobby stores wow go figure can't find any in this country if you did i don't [2387.66] Curry: think they're generally also full of spectrum i've seen a model railway store but nothing that's [2392.54] Stephen: it they're generally also full of spectrum i've seen a model railway store but nothing that's [2397.66] Stephen: actually a model store that has anything flying in it but even you should come down and visit [2404.46] Jack: because we've got sausix model center i'm gonna go back in time to come say hello one or two bits [2412.78] Stephen: of pieces from sausix model center in the past maybe some stick ends and things yeah yeah sorry [2419.42] Curry: i'd say yeah if if they can actually do it and start getting flying clubs to take these on and [2424.86] Curry: get retails take it on they can probably have success in their own right um and they can just [2431.26] Curry: ignore us the little fringe weirdo fpv quad pilot people that they don't care about which i think [2437.5] Curry: they've made very apparent on numerous occasions now yep caroline says in the lee's model shop [2445.7] Curry: they only sell spectrum i was i was doing a video the other day about the the tx 12 mark [2452.82] Curry: two the radio master one and i remember caroline said is about spectrum because one of the things [2458.5] Curry: i mentioned because that's quite a nice form factor it's small and then you've got the zorro [2463.38] Curry: which is a game controller and then you've got stuff like the tx 16 or tyrannis which is much [2468.26] Curry: bigger and really to know what you want to use you have to go and hold them all and there's no [2475.06] Curry: you can't go to a shop and do that you have to kind of if you're new to the hobby it's tricky [2480.34] Curry: because you've got to suddenly say oh i need to find an fpv meetup or something and then say hi [2485.14] Curry: can i hold your radio and then fiddle about with them and see which feels comfortable it's really [2490.18] Jack: hard to do yeah slightly with goggles with what it was like that with goggles yeah the amount of [2497.54] Jack: people that that mini air show you'd be chatting to painless and you know someone would come up to [2503.94] Jack: painless and be like can i try uh new goggles like the the the oled ones not the you know to [2514.5] Jack: see how they fit because that was like you know people were worried because it had like a new mold [2520.98] Jack: and stuff but yeah he was you know the times before covid you know you often had people like [2527.78] Jack: can't try your goggles you know to see whether you know you'd end up with like you know whether [2533.78] Curry: your nose fitted or anything yeah it's always tricky for people like me as well with goggles [2539.86] Curry: because i remember painless saying have a look for these is that what do you think i said i think [2543.22] Curry: it's really blurry because i need to put my mind the six diopters in before i can actually see [2547.38] Curry: anything but it looks bright does that help bright and blurry yeah i do wonder what ephos guy is going [2555.62] Stephen: to do because to my mind they had a community they built an empire it wasn't the empire they [2561.94] Stephen: wanted but it was an empire and it would have given them a lot of capital it would have given [2566.42] Stephen: them political clout it would have enabled them to go and do things but instead they complained [2571.78] Stephen: that people were looking to them for leadership and they went and did something else instead [2576.98] Stephen: and an ephos guy in that call with bruce kept saying that they wanted to hear from the community [2582.02] Stephen: but they've got a community here that's been trying to engage with them for years and they just [2586.5] Stephen: i've stuck their fingers in their ears and la la la their way through it so [2590.98] Stephen: it's going to happen if a bunch of lls pilots buy into this and they end up with thousands of [2596.82] Stephen: users out there asking them to implement some feature that those pilots want whether ephos guy [2601.94] Stephen: gonna do the same thing and turn around and say actually we know best and and not do it [2607.81] Curry: a frees car kind of like we want to hear from the community not that community [2611.97] Curry: just this community it's hard to say i kind of feel like the line of sight club pilots are [2618.29] Curry: slightly less demanding in terms of what they get bearing in mind they're used to the the if you've [2624.37] Curry: looked at the sort of basic spectrum radios the the stuff with ephos that comes along as [2629.57] Curry: going i go oh my god this is amazing this is the most amazing thing i had essentially you want [2635.33] Curry: something that has a timer on it and a trainer port and that's about it and and receivers you [2643.81] Curry: know that do lots of channels and perhaps if you've got telemetry which gives you the battery [2648.85] Curry: information back that's amazing and they can like look on my side of battery i should land [2654.85] Curry: it seems pretty simple really but but yeah it it kind of depends what happens but you know [2663.09] Curry: it's like they as you said they did have a community albeit fpv is smaller than the sort [2669.25] Curry: of the mainstream rc uh we're pretty passionate community and with it was very popular and then [2676.37] Curry: we told them what we liked and they're like you don't know what you want we'll tell you what you [2680.61] Curry: want and you go with that and we're like maybe we should try this radio master guys see what they're [2685.57] Stephen: up to we're starting to finally see the fruit of that type of advice as community comes up with [2691.57] Stephen: its own solutions which is which has been an interesting old time a lot of the you're not [2696.85] Stephen: going to see how this stuff works is starting to go away and the facts are laid bare and the question [2702.37] Stephen: then becomes what do you actually need to see on your radio what do you actually need to know and [2708.29] Stephen: people discover that by you know sorting through and sifting the information and saying oh well [2712.85] Stephen: actually this matters this is how i tell whether my signal is good or bad rather than just uh here's [2717.65] Curry: a number see if it crashes or not i think that's the thing i think that the single biggest biggest [2724.93] Curry: thing in rc over the last couple of years must be express lrs and the way that has changed [2730.77] Curry: absolutely everything i mean there's still people that are on different systems and stuff quite [2736.53] Curry: happily but um that's that has been very much a game changer for many of us and the genesis for [2742.13] Stephen: that to really once they got off the 433 test boards and started putting it in real radios [2749.01] Stephen: the genesis for that wasn't the build your own modules it was people who had r9 modules and were [2754.29] Stephen: quickly able to flash them over um which is very ironic because it's almost the opposite of what [2760.29] Stephen: fr sky stood for that hardware has now gotten a life of its own and and it's able to do a lot [2766.45] Stephen: more than it was previously and it's got updates where users actually know what's been fixed and [2771.41] Curry: changed in the update it was so nice here take an update after i flashed my one of my r9 modules [2778.85] Curry: at least and then flashed the receiver and flew it i was like oh look the rssi works i know what's [2784.61] Curry: happening now because it's the lrs it's not it's like hardware was perfectly capable if only you [2790.21] Curry: kept developing the software engage with the community about it then you might have had [2796.21] Curry: something to eat on your hand but they're like we we're just as good as crossfire and we're cheaper [2800.93] Stephen: by all our stuff it doesn't quite work like that yep and then the one-bit sampling mode that uh [2808.37] Stephen: dominant clefton helped develop uh in htx which gets around some of the inverter problems while [2814.37] Stephen: it kind of minimizes that one bit enables it oh as jack had problems of one-bit mode [2822.85] Stephen: hmm you've had htx issues haven't you jack struggled yeah you know i still i still use [2830.93] Jack: open tx on on my uh tyrannis to be fair so i just you know i don't don't really feel the nest [2843.17] Jack: you know necessary to like buy a uh radio master you know the t does it t16 or whatever [2852.45] Stephen: like you know yeah i don't use mine a lot to be honest my latest one's been that i got the [2857.97] Stephen: zorro gimbals and put them into a tea light that not the fancy zorro gimbals i got the cheap ass [2863.49] Stephen: kind of 10 pound of pop zorro gimbals put them into this puppy and um yeah it feels really nice [2872.93] Stephen: now it doesn't feel like a plastic piece of poop it's nice yeah and he's baited me into saying [2881.49] Stephen: something again because he's he's posted a statement here with not just one but two incorrect [2888.37] Stephen: facts uh and i just might might i don't let this go even though i know but because i've got i've [2895.73] Stephen: got htx in the tx16s with a bluetooth module and it does bluetooth andy it does bluetooth [2903.09] Stephen: because i've got it running for wireless telemetry um and elrs now does up to 16 pwm channels so [2910.61] Jack: you're all good you have to buy the um i'm just guessing here but is it like a matek breakout board [2920.77] Stephen: no oh well okay so there's only a few receivers that have a lot of pinouts that's true [2926.85] Jack: that's that's fair comment yeah because he wants full blown you know like i want to [2934.13] Stephen: probably no it's uh radio master who do all the giant works what was that [2940.85] Curry: that's my transmitter we need some new gimbals for jack and switches please [2948.56] Stephen: he's just broken them again they all survived yeah but the matek one would be the one that [2954.0] Curry: definitely just work turn a g9x it's in the cupboard if the radio is down there and it's right at the [2963.95] Curry: back but it still works um i i haven't i haven't seen i asked radio master if they were bringing [2973.07] Curry: out bigger rx's and they said they couldn't give me firm firm um we've got a lot of five channel [2980.35] Stephen: ones statement oh but did you see the rc video reviews rc video reviews oh about him connecting [2987.71] Stephen: two he just straight up used two receivers set them both with the command the same phrase [2993.95] Stephen: went into the wi-fi on one and said right mate you're doing channels one two three four six [3000.83] Stephen: because five is the arming channel and then the second one he's like right mate you're doing [3005.31] Stephen: channel seven eight nine ten eleven twelve and then you get your you just use two receivers [3011.71] Stephen: that's the answer sorry i was looking around for a 12 channel receiver and you just used two [3016.43] Stephen: receivers is the answer i'm only one of them they're going to be there first you're first [3021.71] Curry: going to come for telemetry we're going to have 12 and 16 channel receivers we've already got s bus [3028.35] Curry: boards uh from matek uh it's just a case of that you want your old style legacy planes to work [3037.87] Curry: i've got i've got my talent on the wall over there that has got an uh what's it got an l9r [3045.63] Curry: that was the long-range 2.4 stuff from freesky and that worked pretty well it got to like six [3050.35] Curry: kilometers until i noticed my rsi of one and then it sort of fail saved and came back again [3056.27] Curry: but because it's got a vector in it and needs more than five pwm channels i've been waiting [3064.03] Curry: a long time to get something that will actually give me an opportunity to replace the receiver [3069.55] Curry: properly uh with something else because basically i'd fed the vector with some stuff [3075.71] Curry: but the vector couldn't pass through to my pan so that was coming from a separate pwm channel [3081.55] Curry: this is this is a very specific situation but there's lots of people in these weird specific [3086.91] Curry: situations that are just like give us something and hence all the people that still keep saying [3092.03] Curry: please give us s bus which isn't going to happen which is why you got things like the little matek [3096.59] Curry: converter but for other people having a whole bunch of pwm channels from a receiver is just [3102.11] Stephen: going to be like yay we can do stuff so andy's saying it doesn't work for wireless trainer i'm [3107.15] Stephen: trying to find out if that is the case so i can't remember you're not calling i know what's wrong are [3113.23] Stephen: you wireless telemetry he must have tried that's for me definitely works on the wireless telemetry [3119.15] Curry: so i'm suspicious suspicious hmm oh caroline has just mentioned the um the new uh matek f405 [3130.66] Curry: VTOL which uh painless shared on one of his posts which i find interesting because [3139.46] Curry: the whole VTOL thing's based on some uh ardu pilot code isn't it it's like why is there [3146.18] Curry: a flight controller for it it's like what are they going to do what's so special about it [3150.98] Curry: i'm i'm i'm hooked on on seeing what happens there how does yeah how do you need a VTOL [3158.26] Curry: i don't know i don't know why you need a VTOL flight controller as opposed to a regular flight [3162.5] Curry: controller that's why that's why i'm interested to find out i i will watch these upcoming videos with [3168.58] Jack: uh interest i should do a video this will make you laugh of me you do a video plugging my ghost [3177.22] Jack: module into the back of this and being like trying to fly an old transmitter and see how i get on [3185.86] Stephen: how are those gimbals doing so i noticed mine actually started creaking i was impressed so [3192.1] Jack: if you cut the little um standoff shall i say boss yeah um these are these are actually [3204.18] Jack: tyrannous normal gimbals from when i upgraded to the hall effect gimbals so it'd be interesting [3213.54] Jack: to know whether this could accept hall effects gimbals so it'd be quite funny the difference in [3221.06] Curry: the gimbals like if i plugged in my old 9x now and you let the the gimbals rest on beta flight [3227.62] Curry: there's sort of the 1500s there and they're like this and as they warm up a bit more they start [3232.58] Curry: going a bit more and so you're you set your um like one of those arcade games so you've got to [3238.98] Curry: like steady the shot quite high and when you go to the modern radio with hall effect gimbal if [3243.06] Curry: you let the gimbal go goes 1500 whereas you think is it is it stuck and then you move it again it [3248.74] Stephen: goes 1500 dead on which is quite nice yeah i've just changed everything that didn't have a hall [3255.46] Stephen: gimbal onto hall gimbals now i'm like not doing dirty pots dirty pots are for cheap toys that [3261.22] Stephen: come with their own radio i've got many dirty radios in add a bit of a mission trying to put [3266.82] Stephen: the gimbals into that tea light because they've got a different pin out to the zorro ones the [3271.38] Stephen: zorro ones come with two three pin jst's and the jumper ones come with one four pin jst in that [3279.94] Stephen: kind of pico blade size and so i had to prize off for glue and resold to them and that was a bit [3285.94] Stephen: that was a bit of a mare they've got like suicidal color coding as well where the red [3290.98] Stephen: wire is ground and the yellow wire is power it's just it's bananas that's crazy um robert [3298.82] Curry: is saying uh darren limes was talking about that the other day there's a little bit of ardu pirate [3302.74] Curry: in the new inav which is interesting because i remember painless talking about inav and saying [3310.1] Curry: there's there's no veto in there and there's not going to be any soon um yeah i just i just don't [3315.94] Curry: know what's going on with that it's i'm interested to know i i've vaguely thought about making a veto [3323.62] Curry: plane out of my my evil plane the one that crashes a lot man has sat on the wall for the last three [3331.46] Curry: years not flying and i was like i could put some it's big and i could put some extra rotors on that [3338.74] Curry: have it take off but i will finish watching all the videos first find out how to do it [3344.18] Curry: i'm hooked now trying to find out if there's a wireless trainer function i want to know [3349.22] Curry: andy is saying i want that bluetooth trainer in edgetex working steven and i'm being sent lots [3354.26] Curry: of nice five channel es pdomi receivers but currently the only way to do it if i recall [3359.14] Stephen: is to use the crfs breakout board there was some crazy who was using the backpack on his [3367.46] Stephen: ers module to pair with his bluetooth headset i read about that and he's like sending it back [3373.46] Stephen: into the radio to go through the mixer and then it's sent back out once against the module [3379.3] Stephen: it's absolutely bananas but yeah probably best not looked at too closely it's a shame because [3385.94] Stephen: the open tx updates have of all but stopped at this point it's um it's not really seeing anything [3391.54] Stephen: i think the last one was may and uh i think the project's basically in maintenance mode from what [3396.66] Curry: i can see so what open tx winds down and htx basically takes over yeah well they were saying [3403.94] Stephen: that the color screens and stuff would come to open tx i don't know if that ever actually made [3408.26] Stephen: it into open tx at this point uh touch screen support and stuff i'm not sure i think so i know [3413.7] Curry: they were talking about it we're almost at the hour are there any other things of discussion [3419.38] Stephen: that we want to talk about tony wants everyone to send in amusing flight videos of any little [3426.18] Stephen: incidents you've got up to send us your dvr it doesn't have to be fancy pop it on youtube send [3432.1] Stephen: us a link you can put it as unlisted if you don't want to show the world uh and we'll do a little [3437.3] Stephen: edit in coming weeks of people's amusing videos be it gopro or dvr or cell phone or someone flying [3446.34] Curry: a plane into their own face whatever takes your fancy yeah as we're looking for um hang on a second [3452.9] Curry: interesting crashes or things or bits happening what's that jack that is what happens when you [3460.26] Jack: leave a bit of solder over dangling over the edge and the old rumba gets it [3467.62] Jack: it's what you pulled out of your plug or something no that's what i pulled out the goddamn rumba [3474.98] Curry: you know that rumba's out to get you he's probably trying to collect parts to build some sort of [3479.06] Jack: weapon to hurt you with yeah yeah self-replicating i went flying today oh what happened two batteries [3489.54] Jack: we got stuck in a tree up in hidden valley and like jack's got a video to post for us [3495.22] Jack: yeah yeah and i flew the dgi avada a bit more do you feel dirty it's your rescue laptop [3506.18] Jack: but no but like it is good believe it or not it is actually and they gave me a go of what dgi [3520.18] Jack: thinks is manual mode with the normal like you know two stick transmitter thing and i i preferred [3529.54] Jack: the grip so there you go time it wasn't fully in manual mode but it would be interesting to fly [3537.54] Jack: in full manual yeah make me that's what i think i think the rumba's got it in for me [3543.14] Jack: but i love that little fellow when will the new air unit come out any idea steven not a clue [3553.22] Stephen: zero clues um when run can make it oh yeah so with dgi stuff i'm not really holding out a lot of hope [3564.34] Stephen: i'm what what i'm kind of worried about is i i don't want the fpv wtf project to accidentally [3571.3] Stephen: burn their exploits and dgi to go away and then produce something that can't be hacked that has [3576.74] Stephen: a really poopy osd which i think might be i think dgi right now they were just going to do [3582.74] Stephen: the same lame osd that they had before so either hope i'm hoping they've gone away to actually [3589.38] Stephen: put a proper osd on it and not not the mess that they had before but i'm kind of worried that [3595.78] Stephen: they've just slowed the release to stop people cracking it and to stop anyone tampering with [3601.62] Stephen: it and then they'll just give us the same rubbish osd they had it's all about the osd on these [3606.26] Stephen: systems i'm enjoying the fpv wtf stuff i've got my custom font loaded up from uh some dude on [3615.31] Stephen: the forum produced a really nice material font beautiful icons all right thank you you've been [3621.23] Jack: listening to let drone out massive shout out to all our patreons who keep this show running [3629.87] Jack: keep it going keep it uh keep it impartial so we could slag off free sky as much as we like [3638.43] Jack: because we're not they're corporate slaves and um that sounded really ominous it sounds like i've [3646.67] Stephen: sent a motorbike to get you i know and fly beast lands outside jack's hq in brighton [3653.95] Stephen: proceeds to blast the door down don't tell them where i live [3658.83] Jack: um yeah uh also zoe's been having a bit of time so if you can um or i'll [3666.59] Jack: steven will post you a link so you can watch that on youtube and uh yeah you've been joined [3673.47] Jack: by everyone's favorite curry kitten goodbye in his is it a fitness shirt or is it a fixie shirt [3681.07] Curry: it's my ifit t-shirt for doing a hundred workouts i decided not to wear an fpv one like steven did [3689.39] Curry: i'm here for i've i've got my podcast mixed up i'll be doing my ifit podcast later [3694.99] Jack: wearing a big flight t-shirt for yeah and uh everyone's favorite mustache in their beat [3702.19] Jack: flight shirt steven cheers and i've been bright until i fly and i am so jealous of worries [3711.07] Jack: and her webcam it's so good and if you want to see in hearts if you want to see curry's webcam [3719.23] Jack: tune in live every week on a thursday on metro now youtube thank you good night bye telemetry last