=== Let's Drone Out — Episode 376 === Title: LDO 376 - Seagulls cost more than you think Recorded: 2022-11-10 Hosts: Wayne "CurryKitten" Andrews, Stephen "Belrik" Howell, Jack "Brightontillifly" Nash, Andrew "Frank" Hyams Guest(s): (none recorded) Total audience: 1,816 Platforms: YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NycKZJhfd0); SoundCloud (http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/feeds.soundcloud.com/stream/1381606234-letsdroneout-ldo-376-seagulls-cost-more-than-you-think.mp3) ===================================== #letsdroneout #LDO #podcast #drone #mulitrotor #quadcopter #fatshark #impulseRC #ethix #brightontillifly #TeamBlackSheep #FPVUK #BLHeli #lipo #KISSULTRA #KissESC #esc #FlyDuino #JoshuaBardwell #Skitzo #Alien5 #MrSteele #FPVRacing #MiniAirShow #LondonFPV #UKFPV #betaflight #fpvdrones #FPVRacing #MiniQuad #podcast #fpvwing let's drone out #BrightontillIfly #Fpv, #Drone, #Drone racing #Quadcopter, #Gopro, #Drone,, #KissFc, #KissEsc's #FPVwing #LondonFPV, Uk, #Easa #betaflight #brightontillifly #FPV #FPVdrones #letsdroneout #interview, #Jack. Brighton fpv, #Naze32, #Help, #Fix #Bug #blhelli, #flyduno #Let'sdroneout, Alien 5, FPV, Drone, #MiniQuads #Turnigy #MiniQuad #Racing #FPVRacing #FPV #FPVBrighton #FPVUK #lipo#rottingdean #MiniAirshow, #FPV Crash [0.0] Jack: Hello and you're listening to what's drawn out and special thank you to our lovely patrons that help donate [7.48] Jack: So that we could pay the editor to remove the swear words and silly things we say [12.56] Jack: Massive. Thank you to call us campus art folk now Sam Dharma on with the show [51.58] Curry: Hello we are live it's ldo it's episode [55.82] Curry: 376 yes, we're still going and edging ever closer to 400 you will notice [62.06] Curry: We are down to the dynamic duo tonight because some idiot has asked Jack to be his best man [68.62] Curry: And you know he gets all he deserves so Jack is off [72.22] Curry: trying to brave the m25 and getting through all the [75.78] Curry: loonies protesting [77.7] Curry: See if he can make it over to his friend's wedding [79.9] Curry: So it is just myself everyone's favorite curry kitten although clearly not because no one turn up except for Steven who's over the [87.5] Stephen: Everyone's a favorite Steven with a silly man. He brought amazing moustache with him [93.14] Curry: Which is great stuff and we're coming into a week. I don't know how it's been for you, Steven [98.82] Curry: You know a million miles away from me, but in my area of the woods it has been to rent your downpours and [105.46] Curry: Sort of 40 50 mile an hour wind absolutely awful some of the worst weather I've seen for a long time [112.26] Stephen: Yeah, it was the sort of weather where I thought oh, we're breaking the clouds the Sun's come out [116.3] Stephen: Oh, it might it looks like that the pavements dried a bit [118.82] Stephen: And I go and try and walk around the park and like almost slide over and fall on my ass in the first 20 yards [124.26] Stephen: So yeah, it's not great for flying. I don't think and there's already standing water on the field where I usually fly so [131.78] Stephen: discouraging me a little bit [133.78] Curry: That's the thing is that this is the time of year and it's looking better tomorrow. I've actually got [138.74] Curry: Batteries charged up and one of the problems I have I don't know about you is after I haven't flown for a while [143.7] Curry: There's been like at least three weeks for me [146.1] Curry: aside from like [148.26] Curry: forgetting how to in like not really remembering what it's like I also have like [153.46] Curry: Projects built up and it's to the point that I can only take [156.5] Curry: Half of what I've got ready to fly with me and this means that I'm taking far too much stuff like there's about [163.14] Curry: 20 batteries coming with me two radios two goggles three models [168.02] Curry: And a backpack. I won't be able to carry and if anybody [171.54] Curry: Knows the field that I fly in which looks very nice during the summer and or green [175.86] Curry: If you looked at it last winter, you're like, why are you flying over a lake and it's not that is the field [180.74] Curry: The field just holds this water together [183.14] Curry: So if you don't take off and land in the exact place [186.66] Curry: You are digging a quad out of slurry essentially because it's that that field is is 90% cow poo [193.78] Curry: Let's face it [195.14] Stephen: Yeah, I I don't have cows [197.14] Stephen: But what I do have is an area that's basically marshland [201.3] Stephen: And it just fills up with water exactly the same i've also been gathering things. I have [206.42] Stephen: Since we last spoke [208.34] Stephen: I think might put this in the last show. I have [211.38] Stephen: a strange winged contrivance [214.18] Stephen: Oh, he's got it. Oh, we don't know exactly what's going on there [217.22] Stephen: But it seems to have wings and I got a receiver for that. Hello jack [221.78] Stephen: the flaming woofler [223.62] Curry: It seems to be what you're doing here. I just I just talked to you up a storm about how you couldn't come [227.94] Curry: You're supposed to be not a drinker [231.94] Stephen: Big old crew [233.94] Jack: um [234.82] Jack: Yeah, i'm gonna i'll leave half past but sorry i'm a little light [239.38] Jack: I had to get some to eat. That's okay. We weren't expecting right. We we thought you weren't here at all [244.5] Curry: No, I couldn't [246.42] Jack: I felt sorry for you guys. Admittedly. I could have left earlier, but [251.06] Jack: You know, there's only it's only us three hardcore blokes now [255.7] Stephen: I'm making you a thing jack. This is an express lrs joystick adapter. It takes a usbc. I'll put a cable in there [262.9] Stephen: So that it's glued you can't quite see how badly it's made from this distance [267.3] Stephen: But it's not held in with any sort of fancy clips. No, i've used glue. Um [273.22] Stephen: It's fairly easy to remove glue. It's my favorite welder brand glue that I use for absolutely everything but isn't the lesson glued [279.94] Jack: Thank you. I very much appreciate it. Um [283.3] Jack: I fixed [285.22] Jack: this [287.96] Jack: Uh, the isd now works for now you put the smoke back in [292.92] Jack: That's exceptional [294.28] Jack: I've got to figure out how to power the transmitter up to you know [299.56] Stephen: How do you put smoke inside a chip [302.36] Jack: Uh, I didn't smoke it. It was well, it was [306.36] Jack: It was smoking a little bit, but there was a short [312.28] Jack: On the video so it's probably done nothing any good [316.92] Jack: So sorry, what was shorting you just uh linked power pins or something? [321.08] Jack: Yeah power pin to the video pen on the btx side [325.16] Jack: That's got a zing. I know so [328.84] Jack: yeah, I think I think the um [334.76] Jack: I'm guessing [336.68] Jack: It just because it wasn't full on negative it didn't [341.32] Jack: It didn't completely short and blow clear and maybe that's good because it was because it was a bit of a george michael [348.28] Jack: You know careless whisker. Um [351.32] Jack: I'm thinking not much current could get through and that's how everything survived [357.16] Stephen: Well, excellent to hear that. Yeah, jack and I were we're meddling away on on discord looking at this the other day and [363.8] Stephen: Went back to beta flight 3.2. I think we were on [368.44] Stephen: just [369.4] Stephen: tooling around trying to see what would work and what wouldn't [372.36] Stephen: And went as far as building a custom build of beta flight for this weird old quad [378.6] Stephen: I've got quite intrigued by it [381.56] Jack: Yeah, it should be quite an experience. I'm hoping that maybe you know next year we can sort of like all meet up and [389.0] Jack: uh, you know sort of present this to two people to fly [395.0] Jack: And you know kind of have fun with [397.88] Jack: And just talk about the good old days. I mean there's no [401.48] Jack: There's no d shot. There's no [405.4] Jack: filters [407.0] Jack: There's nothing, you know, you uh, you were talking b.l. Hely s [411.8] Jack: And i'm talking b.l. Hely [414.12] Stephen: Yeah, it's got like lane esc's on there [416.76] Stephen: It's it's going to be really rough because it won't be able to control the motors that fast at all [422.2] Curry: And this is where I say things like luxury back in my day. We didn't have d shot [427.56] Curry: We just had wet gravel. This this is one of the ones i'm flying tomorrow. I decided to see how how i'm doing for my [434.6] Curry: 10 years and this isn't quite 10 years old the tricopteris, but this is as I found out is running cling flight 1.9 [442.76] Curry: Which is awesome and is essentially just a bundle of wires stuck in a frame [448.04] Stephen: By the blades clive you're lucky [451.32] Curry: Zero zero angle on that camera [454.76] Curry: This is going to be fun. This is a proper board camera [458.36] Curry: Yeah, it's the the old he's at old 420 [462.04] Curry: Geez man, why wouldn't [464.04] Jack: What I wouldn't give to get one of those [466.36] Jack: But you have to break off the circuit board to make it small enough to fit [471.56] Curry: Oh that that was that was something that came after this and when I took it off [476.76] Curry: I opened it up to see what was in there [478.92] Curry: So I was making a video about this and essentially it was just bits of glue and wire stuck together [484.84] Curry: All in this big lump and I had to like unpear all this glue to find out what was under it [489.56] Curry: And try and find the osd [492.2] Curry: It was it was quite nasty [494.28] Stephen: Surrendous absolutely horrendous. I was half tempted to get one of these nmr 250 frames and just [500.12] Stephen: Chuck, um, some my flight zing 2 motors on an h7 flight controller and just yolo it and see what it could do [507.0] Jack: it's pointless doing that in a way because [511.24] Jack: the arms are [513.0] Jack: literally like bits of [515.48] Jack: fantastic [516.6] Jack: yeah, you know like my [519.16] Jack: This is a top plate for [521.8] Jack: um [522.68] Jack: a [523.72] Stephen: Yeah, I suppose you need to hold it back to something like 1806 motors [527.16] Jack: If you're any bigger than that, it just vibrates itself to pieces. Yeah, the the top plate of a [533.38] Jack: Apex is the same thickness [537.32] Stephen: As the actual two millimeter two millimeter arms. Wow [541.88] Jack: Yeah, something like that and that is a new you know, like that's an apex which is like five [547.88] Stephen: That's that's thinner than my three and a half inch quad frame [552.04] Jack: That three and a half has got three mil arms. It's awful. I mean, this is this has been beefed up [559.0] Jack: You know with the use of the pdb [561.72] Jack: But you know like this, you know, it's not even the full [565.96] Jack: You don't even get a full bottom plate with this version [569.24] Stephen: I suppose that's where the hot glue came in to reduce resonance, right? [572.44] Stephen: You had to just like caulk it up with hot glue to absorb the vibration [576.92] Jack: Yeah, it was uh, well we we we weren't even that advanced then [582.28] Jack: Like I like curry's approach because he has got period correct stuff [587.32] Jack: And it's like a snapshot of [590.28] Jack: And the past [592.04] Curry: But you know, that's because I haven't changed it [594.84] Curry: It wasn't it wasn't sort of rebuilt for this. This is just something that sat on the wall [599.48] Curry: Being nostalgic a bit like the tricopter. I did find our last touch the tricopter five years ago [605.8] Curry: Just to see how it flew and it didn't fly very well. So now I've had to sort of [609.8] Curry: Revise how to set up the kk2 or something. Didn't you break a motor off? [616.04] Curry: Yeah when it was um [618.76] Curry: Because the tricopter is big I had it [621.24] Curry: I've unfolded on the floor so I could try and work out how to arm it because it was stick arming [625.0] Curry: I couldn't remember what the stick positions were [627.96] Curry: And when I was walking out the door, I sort of tripped over it and one of the motors got snapped off the legs [634.52] Curry: Which is uh [635.72] Curry: Slightly embarrassing but they are just held on with zip ties. So or cable ties would be cool to me [640.12] Curry: So I just got some more cable ties and put it back on [643.72] Curry: All sorted [646.42] Stephen: It occurs to me that this quad that jack's building is kind of like grandpa having a classic sports car in the garage [652.74] Stephen: And they just sort of polish it and build it and get it just so [656.66] Stephen: Then maybe one day a year they take it out drive it 500 yards and back [661.38] Jack: Yeah, we we would kind of do in that with frank because frank had [667.7] Jack: You know before um [670.58] Jack: Something changed in beta heli where I can't actually flash [677.06] Jack: uh the [679.14] Jack: uh [680.02] Jack: These [681.22] Jack: God, what were they like? [682.82] Jack: Emax 12 amp eses I flashed those so they could you know [688.1] Jack: Like you change the boot loaders. You can actually flash [691.14] Jack: Beta heli onto them, but I just couldn't seem to get it to work [696.18] Jack: Anymore which sucked [698.18] Curry: But was this using the old style of flashing where you had to disassemble the ec and sold all the [704.18] Curry: Wires to it and then use that's that's the proper flashing, isn't it? That's when you knew you were doing something special [709.54] Jack: I think i've still got [711.54] Jack: that [712.58] Jack: Said dfc because like I kind of I kind of left it thinking do you know what one day? [720.02] Jack: You know one day [721.7] Jack: I'll do that [723.38] Jack: And I kind of left like what I can only class as like little breadcrumbs [729.62] Jack: For me myself so that when I came [733.14] Jack: back to to actually do [735.86] Jack: You know make my own zmr [738.9] Jack: You know before the the old parts disappeared, but yeah, that was [742.66] Jack: You know the old aduino and you used to have to [746.66] Jack: To fly I just couldn't I couldn't seem to get it to work [750.26] Curry: Yeah, I think I did the same thing. I think I think these are [754.26] Curry: the plush escs which I managed to [757.06] Curry: Flash to be a be a heli and this is the original be a heli and it doesn't really actually do much [763.14] Curry: I think it might it might stop the motors when you go to zero throttle, which isn't very useful because there's no air mode [770.02] Curry: Back then so if you just took your throttle down, it would just fall out of the sky. I've got to say jackson attempts to [776.82] Stephen: Get bill heli up and running [779.3] Stephen: With pwm mode did not inspire confidence because there was a lot of is it is it going to set the correct endpoints? [786.98] Stephen: Oh, it doesn't seem to have done that. Oh, oh no, it's spinning. Oh, I seem to have set [791.62] Stephen: Seem to set minimum throttle as 2000. Oh, oh wait now. It's not running now. It is. Oh now there's smoke [799.06] Jack: It's just [802.98] Jack: There is there is an old wrote a write episode where you know, like they're [807.94] Jack: they're [809.54] Jack: interviewing sharp who and it's at the [812.98] Jack: you know, like the [815.14] Jack: When schizo won the freestyle it's that place where they kind of like built like [822.18] Jack: towers out of [824.5] Jack: um [825.78] Jack: like little gantries and that and [828.82] Jack: cut a long story short [831.14] Jack: We had a bug at one point where you were if you plugged your quad in [836.58] Jack: to the configurator [838.58] Jack: And you hadn't removed your props [841.46] Jack: It just went to like full throttle [844.66] Jack: Uh, and that was that was a thing for a while, but he he had he had that where [852.58] Jack: That happened and it was just on full power and [857.46] Jack: The other thing was like props back in the day would break [861.7] Jack: and um [863.54] Jack: So you'd you know, luckily like you could kind of like, you know, they would snap [868.1] Jack: and the thing wouldn't properly take off [870.82] Jack: but [872.1] Jack: It was that point where blades [875.06] Jack: were now, um [876.9] Jack: the indestructible blades [878.98] Jack: so [879.94] Jack: it [881.7] Jack: Started up throttled up and then you they were just trying to kick it like, you know [886.18] Jack: They were like killing it like it was like some sort of wild animal [890.42] Jack: Trying to kill them and uh, it was put foot on the thing and yoink [894.82] Jack: Yeah, man, you couldn't get anywhere near it like [898.74] Jack: It was uh, it was terrible [901.78] Jack: Yeah [903.46] Curry: Again, it's fun when things go wrong. I think there's still a video for and I think it's just from rc shin [908.5] Curry: Where he had he'd done a flight on some sort of quad [912.02] Curry: And he'd he'd landed it and he could not get it to disarm [916.02] Curry: So because it was it was sort of bouncing as well [918.9] Curry: And then you got some guy coming on with a broom trying to bash it down and and trying it like someone's trying to reach [924.5] Curry: Under to get the battery plug really good video fun to watch [928.34] Jack: When when things go crazy, I just yeah, I don't know. It's like, uh, [933.62] Jack: You know the retro the retro quad build, you know kind of like going [938.82] Jack: Going back to it [942.02] Stephen: Yeah, I can see the appeal i'm just i'm so used to [945.06] Stephen: like quads that you can just like [947.86] Stephen: Wail on you know, push them to full throttle flip them upside down like what what? [952.9] Stephen: I think it was you or someone else's complaining because I kept doing it when we were meeting up by the by the towers [958.58] Stephen: And then just like hurling over our heads keeping the camera tracking on us and just like [964.66] Stephen: Inverting at the midway point and then just like wait till i'm about foot above the ground and jam the throttle and just stop dead and then [971.86] Stephen: Punch out and do exactly the opposite thing in an arc over our heads [975.62] Stephen: uh, so i've got lots of good footage at the top of our heads as I sort of like [979.22] Stephen: Punched out in uh in orbits like go describing semi-circles over our heads [985.14] Stephen: And i'm just not sure whether i'd feel confident doing that type of flying with these quads [989.54] Stephen: Don't worry me you talk about them. I think you've had to really adjust the style of flying and just tame everything down a lot [997.22] Curry: He would like that one i've got only runs on 3s [1000.9] Curry: And it's pretty heavy and so you have to think if you go into a dive [1005.54] Curry: You have to go full throttle about three seconds [1009.38] Curry: Before you normally would because there's such like a hang on thinking about it thinking about it thinking about it [1015.14] Curry: Coming back up slowly slowly. So oh just missed the ground luckily [1019.06] Curry: So all maneuvers were done very high [1021.94] Curry: And the throttle wasn't dropped because then the props would just stop and he'd fall [1026.58] Curry: It was very different [1028.18] (VT): Yikes [1029.38] Jack: Yeah, here you go. I found I found the video [1032.82] Jack: We'll probably get a um [1035.22] Jack: Wobble copter [1036.66] Jack: Yeah, we'll probably get a channel channel strike. No doubt but [1041.78] Jack: for what [1042.82] Jack: um [1044.1] Jack: Will it will it use? [1046.1] Jack: Will it play it? [1047.46] Stephen: If it's 20 seconds around here, I believe that's fair fair you [1051.06] (VT): Can you hear it? [1053.06] (VT): Yeah, yeah, I know what i'm doing. I'm sharper [1058.66] (VT): So then so then we plug it into the computer [1063.6] (VT): 2000 to set it to calibration mode [1066.34] (VT): It goes off the ground [1068.58] (VT): And I just remember going like [1070.98] (VT): Like this and the thing is coming towards me [1073.62] (VT): And I keep going because I was with two friends [1076.58] (VT): They're looking at me going like this and i'm going like this with the quad [1080.1] (VT): Then they come in and we start kicking it. I managed to push it and then [1085.06] (VT): Sergio was wearing yeah when you close her out flip flops. So he's going like this [1092.42] (VT): He wants his step on it he doesn't want to lose his toes so then I so then I managed to like literally [1099.14] (VT): It's not stopping moving because i'm using the doll props because they're not breaking [1104.42] (VT): The props are not breaking and it didn't cut my finger on my leg and it didn't broke they kept spinning. So we start kicking it [1111.62] (VT): Literally kicking it. We were killing an animal at that point [1118.18] Jack: It was yeah, it was it was like that back in the day [1121.94] Jack: I mean you [1123.3] Jack: You had you had a like little [1126.42] Jack: little taste of that with me, you know being like [1130.98] Jack: You know like hearing the ese calibrating stuff and [1136.82] Jack: Uh when when i'm setting up my quads [1139.78] Jack: it [1141.06] Jack: It wouldn't save and reboot. It would just save [1144.74] Jack: So then you had to go to the cli and then exit the cli and it would reboot. So me and steven are like [1153.3] Stephen: Trying to trying to change the board orientation and we're like, yeah, what the hell is going on? [1157.62] Stephen: It's not changing. We're changing like zero 90 180 270. It's not making a blind bit of difference. What's going on here? [1164.42] Curry: Hmm [1165.54] Stephen: And and then we go to the ports jab and he's like you're gonna like this and that there's only two ports [1170.1] Stephen: There's no usb vcp. It doesn't exist. It's an f103. It doesn't yeah, apparently doesn't do it [1176.18] Jack: He was like, why don't you use another you are I was like, there is no other you are [1181.94] Jack: We are using all you aren't [1184.82] Jack: And like we're using both of them [1187.14] Stephen: Yeah, one of those we need for the usb port mate, so we can either have usb port or osd. All right [1193.7] Jack: Yeah, nothing else. Like yeah, yeah, and he's just like what? [1198.34] Jack: and [1199.14] Jack: The the whole idea of that, you know, like usb was never [1203.7] Jack: That accessible you kind of just used to set it up and leave it. There's a whole idea is you plug [1210.34] Jack: Into the quad [1212.66] Jack: Through the back of the quad. I don't know what he was thinking [1217.3] Jack: You know, like you kind of had a [1219.14] Jack: A board on top kind of like where you get to and then underslung batteries or something. I don't know. It's [1226.1] Stephen: It's like a cp102 like a separate chip that does usb to serial. It's like having a [1232.74] Stephen: An ftdi basically built onto the board. It's not incorporated in any way [1238.26] Stephen: Absolutely nuts and I was looking at the f303 and thinking oh, maybe now we've got cloud builds for beta flight [1244.9] Stephen: Maybe I can like carve off enough features to do an f3 build [1248.74] Stephen: Didn't manage to set up the libraries and peripheral drivers [1252.26] Stephen: Properly to do it might get there eventually, but yeah, this thing's got 128k of flash [1258.5] Stephen: And that release they decided that they were going to disable esc pass through [1263.78] Stephen: So that they could keep like barometer support [1266.58] Stephen: It's like that little memory that it was either be able to read a barometer or do the bl heli pass through [1273.94] Stephen: But there's just no no space on that chip whatsoever [1277.38] Stephen: So yeah, I found the the board defines and I did a custom build and I disabled barometer and re-enabled the esc pass through [1285.06] Stephen: Got that working, but [1286.98] Stephen: Oh my word. It's just there's no [1290.02] Stephen: No, no, it's not enough hardware to really do anything at that point. It's it's nuts [1295.7] Jack: Is is like that, you know, like I remember when [1300.4] Jack: f3 boards come out and it was just like [1305.22] Jack: You know, we they they honestly believed that [1309.14] Jack: Why you know, why would you need anything else? [1312.02] Jack: You know, you've got you've got enough room [1314.5] Jack: There's so much room for activities [1317.46] Stephen: You look at dynamic filters and I swear that dynamic filters are just not available for the f [1322.98] Stephen: They don't mention it but no i'm pretty sure that dynamic filter support was simply never added for f1 because there's not enough [1329.14] Stephen: Storage space and likely not enough resources because what you're running the gyro 1k or something [1334.66] Stephen: It was like a laughable. No, it was a 2 was it 2k gyro and a 1k pit loop [1339.62] Stephen: It was like really laughable and we can we can plug in and find out [1344.34] Stephen: Looks like 54 CPU running a 1k pit loop. I think 1k was was seen as like super quick [1353.06] Curry: Yeah [1355.78] Jack: Yeah, like whoa calm down [1358.9] Jack: You know 1k [1361.54] Curry: Yeah, I remember with the f3s if you want a 1k loop that's sending pwm to the ESCs [1367.14] Curry: Oh great [1369.22] Jack: Sometimes when I open beta flight [1372.18] Jack: Old-school [1373.78] Jack: it uh [1375.7] Jack: It's got a little twinge downstairs [1379.94] Jack: Well, that's one way of putting it [1382.5] Jack: my uh pc [1384.98] Jack: Decides to shut off the windows [1387.7] Stephen: And dlc wants to know if there's any way to obtain a blackout [1392.5] Stephen: We get my triage frame [1394.82] Jack: I tried but this this guy wanted like [1398.5] Jack: A hundred pound for it or something ridiculous [1401.94] Curry: So cheaper than it was when it came out because that's [1405.06] Curry: What what got me into the first sort of mini quads? [1409.14] Curry: was [1410.18] Curry: uh [1411.06] Curry: Me and my friend looking at this thing saying we can't afford that and he started [1415.22] Curry: 3d printing them as a reasonable copy [1418.26] Curry: And uh he for a little while he had a little business [1421.94] Curry: Printing out these frames and selling kits they worked all right [1425.06] Curry: It was only when the likes of the zmr 250 came along that that was no longer a thing [1429.7] Curry: Well, we got them. What's going on? Look at them [1432.82] Stephen: There you go for our audio listeners jack has opened an exceptionally old copy of beta flight [1438.82] Jack: Yep, look at that [1441.62] Stephen: What is there are not nearly enough tabs that vary your ports notice that there are two whole ports [1449.22] Stephen: Because [1451.62] Stephen: Luxury you [1452.98] Stephen: Pulls to the lock on thick one. You're running not only an accelerometer, but also a freaking 2k gyro. Wow [1460.74] Curry: Yeah, hot stuff. This is quick. He's got one shot one two, five again one shot one two, five when that came out [1466.18] Curry: This is like [1467.46] Jack: This is amazing. This is like so much better. It's one up from pwm [1474.26] Jack: Shut your face. Look one big [1477.22] Jack: You got pwm one shot one shot [1481.38] Curry: From pwm, but it was still like you can send a like a ese signal so much more often [1488.66] Curry: And thus everything flies better. It's it's pretty much what was needed to fly [1492.98] Curry: Mini quads properly because until that time if you're on pwm [1496.9] Curry: It was kind of like you're on [1498.9] Curry: Big ass quads could could just about fly pwm. Everything else looked horrible [1503.78] Stephen: So [1504.9] Stephen: 125 refer to the the signal time for a single signal or is it the number of updates per second or what i've got no idea you're going to have to [1516.58] Stephen: Go no, there's one shot 42 as well, but that didn't seem to work on jack's quads [1520.58] Stephen: So i'm presuming 125 is the slower one and 42 is the faster one [1525.46] Stephen: It's also got air mode, hasn't it if you scroll down? [1528.74] Stephen: Yeah [1531.38] Stephen: Oh my god [1533.38] Stephen: This is this is what person says. I can't read your screen [1536.02] Stephen: It's too small controller doesn't know there's an osd the osd is is snuck in in the side [1543.46] Jack: Yeah, I might have broke the osd by plugging in usb at the same time. Oh dear three two five [1551.3] Stephen: B to fly and configurator 10 two or ten three, I think one of the two [1556.1] Curry: Lots of people still like the version three [1559.7] Curry: Something was it was it three point [1564.82] Stephen: Lots of people is going out in a limb really at this point [1569.06] Stephen: People who don't want to update like it because they had it working like three years ago [1573.3] Stephen: But from three five to four three, there is an absolute mountain of changes [1579.14] Stephen: You have no rpm filtering. You don't really have an optimized dynamic notch on three five [1584.58] Stephen: Everything is just that the filtering is much faster and much better on newer builds [1590.58] Stephen: So I have a certain sort of [1592.18] Stephen: Super skepticism when people say they fly the older stuff because it probably means they just fly the defaults and they didn't get around to tuning it [1598.9] Jack: Three point five point center for the wing [1602.26] Stephen: Oh, yeah, that's the latest one [1604.42] Stephen: latest of three five, yeah [1607.06] Stephen: If you've got an f3, that's that's what you're on unless you're running joe lucid's like carved up for zero build where [1613.54] Stephen: You can get rpm filter on f3, but you have to kind of [1617.62] Stephen: Some if you want to run rpm filter and other stuff [1619.86] Stephen: you might end up having to overclock your f3 and then you have to like put in all sorts of hacks because if you [1625.28] Stephen: Overclock it and plug in usb. It stops the usb working. So you've got to make it overclock only [1631.94] Stephen: When uh usb isn't attached [1634.42] Jack: Yeah, and the rc is welcome any time to come back [1639.7] Jack: But are you waiting that at fail safe? Sorry. Yeah fail safe. Yeah [1643.94] Jack: It's yeah, you flash it back [1647.3] Jack: flash it to [1648.98] Jack: this is the um [1652.1] Jack: Express and the rest diy module that fail safe [1656.42] Jack: uh provided me [1658.26] Jack: but um [1659.78] Jack: Yeah, I I flash it back [1662.42] Jack: a few steps [1664.26] Jack: Down to two eight or something [1666.82] Jack: and then the [1668.26] Jack: Symbol the little logo for express lrs appears on the screen [1673.46] Jack: and [1674.42] Jack: That's it. But yeah, the [1676.74] Jack: The screen no longer displays anything on three dot [1680.42] Jack: o [1681.7] Stephen: Dot one [1682.9] Stephen: Did you ask on their discord and say yo, what's up? [1687.22] Jack: And uh, I updated this to edgy tx and there's no luis script for [1693.3] Jack: Uh [1694.98] Jack: Crossfire weirdly enough. I don't know where the hell to get out [1698.74] Stephen: The lower script should still work, right? [1701.3] Stephen: Yeah, it's the same thing crossfire crossfire hasn't changed [1705.94] Stephen: Should be the same lower [1708.18] Stephen: If you use edgy tx buddy [1710.58] Stephen: There's a section that builds out your sd card and it should upload the default luis script. So I think it definitely does this [1716.74] Stephen: That's what I did [1719.22] Jack: I thought I did [1721.54] Stephen: Yeah, so the lure relates to the version of your module [1724.18] Stephen: It doesn't matter what version of edgy tx or open tx there [1727.86] Stephen: The lure implementation is the same on the tails. I can't win lot of love for three five seven going on [1734.42] Curry: Doesn't need science or maths [1737.62] Curry: or news [1739.06] Curry: Well, I would still contend it if if you're flying this on a quad and everything is spot on [1745.54] Curry: Then why would you bother up later? If ain't broke don't try to fix it [1748.9] Curry: But if you like experimenting or there's a feature that you would like but is on a later version [1753.86] Stephen: That's that's the reason to update think if you're on a five inch or you're on a really kind of basic loop [1760.26] Stephen: It's probably good [1760.98] Stephen: But there were lots of stuff in between those that just flew like pants on three five [1766.26] Stephen: And flew a lot better once you got to like four two and four three [1770.26] Stephen: Four zero was a problematic release that didn't help that they kind of implemented a bunch of new features, but the features weren't [1777.7] Stephen: Totally smooth and ready for consumer use. They were a little bit rough and ready [1782.82] Stephen: They kind of settled down in four one and then four two bit better and four three is honestly like just [1788.98] Stephen: Idiot mode really you can [1791.14] Stephen: You've got presets you like connect to the configurator and say oh, yeah, i've got crossfire. There's a crossfire preset. Oh, yeah [1797.3] Stephen: I've got like a [1799.62] Stephen: Immersion i'll see something video transmitter. There's a preset for that and blah blah blah [1805.14] Curry: As we were saying the other day, I think I think it could still be improved stuff like [1809.7] Curry: Uh, we were talking about [1811.22] Curry: Uh vtx tables weren't we in like why why doesn't the protocol saying hello? You're a vtx. What can you do? [1818.58] Curry: And sort of it tells it and it populates the table so you don't get [1823.06] Curry: Cockups in the table and getting things stuck in pit mode [1827.22] Curry: Because uh, it thinks you're running [1830.18] Curry: Beat if like uh smart audio 2 instead of 2.1 stuff like that [1834.1] Curry: Let's have to a couple of people [1835.94] Curry: She's getting stuck in pit mode because they're on the wrong wrong setting [1838.98] Curry: So we're putting the wrong things in the tables those rush tiny tank things [1842.74] Stephen: They always want it to just be on pit mode for some reason [1846.02] Stephen: It's like some setting if you left them unplugged for too long [1849.38] Stephen: They just went back to the la la la I can't hear you i'm in race mode for some reason [1855.3] Curry: Yeah, I I speak from [1858.02] Curry: My own experience getting stuck there [1860.82] Curry: And that's kind of because rush fbv can't quite work out what version of smart audio. They should be using they're saying it's 2.1 [1867.38] Curry: and [1868.26] Curry: Beat if like saying it's two so you go putting the dbm values in it's like, I don't know what this is [1872.82] Curry: I'm going to pit mode [1875.38] Curry: When all you need is one two three four [1878.42] Curry: Yeah too much like hard work [1880.66] Curry: yeah, but um [1882.74] Curry: I really haven't played before pretty much and I do find [1885.94] Curry: It it's kind of feature overload and I don't understand the preset stuff when I looked at it because it's like here's a preset [1892.66] Curry: This is an official one. This is from some man who you don't know [1896.34] Curry: But he says he's he's using the same stuff as you you should try this. It's like, I don't know [1901.62] Stephen: presets are trying to solve the problem of you'd like watch someone's video and they tell you a bunch of stuff to bang into [1907.38] Stephen: the cli and you'd have to like [1909.7] Stephen: Download a document or a google drive thing or copy it off the screen. They solve that problem of like [1915.22] Stephen: Here's the the five commands you need to type it in a row instead of trying to [1920.18] Stephen: Get them from somewhere and paste them in it just provides a bank of curated ones that people have sanity checked [1925.94] Curry: I think so, but it's kind of like in the olden days whenever somebody used to see a video and it used to be good [1931.06] Curry: You'd like to see all these comments saying what your pits? [1933.94] Curry: And it's kind of like, you know, these are my pits on this quad on all this equipment for me [1939.22] Curry: You can put it on your quad [1940.98] Curry: but then you might just crash it into the ground or it might not work so well for you it might shake around like a [1946.02] Curry: an old uh in jittery grandma, but [1949.38] Curry: Uh, yeah, I don't know. I I haven't I haven't looked properly at be to fly i'm i'm very much [1954.9] Curry: Uh the person you hate steve and i'm like i've put it on defaults. It seems to fly. Okay [1960.5] Curry: I'm not looking any further than that because everything confuses me now. I don't understand what all the filters do [1966.9] Curry: I I understand rates and I understand the basis of like the the pits and that's about it [1972.18] Curry: But it was like you you just don't mess with the basics anymore. It's like sliders presets [1978.1] Curry: Uh filtering [1979.86] Curry: It's too confusing [1981.94] Stephen: Yeah, the presets are there for all the rates and all the filtering and stuff [1985.38] Stephen: So i'm gonna fly with like super flies presets or crunk presets and you want to fly with furruks rates [1992.1] Stephen: Then you can just click and beep beep beep [1994.5] Jack: It is weird. I I I really did struggle with it because like I was [1999.54] Jack: You know, there was all these like videos that you would tune in [2004.42] Jack: to um [2006.42] Jack: Bardwell, and he'd be [2008.82] Jack: Be like turn this filter on turn this filter [2012.66] Jack: After the motors get hot and i'm like [2015.86] Jack: I don't even know where to find those filters [2020.02] Jack: You know, it's like type in this cli come on that's not documented anywhere [2024.9] Jack: She's like, oh god. No screw that. Yeah. Yeah, it was just like i'm i'm out i'm out [2032.66] Jack: I don't want to know [2034.42] Jack: Yeah, and that's why you went to kiss the state that yeah [2037.7] Jack: Yeah, basically because it just [2040.58] Jack: Got too complicated [2043.86] Stephen: I guess i'm just mathsy enough that I kind of get that stuff and for me it just clicks [2049.94] Stephen: Just the way my little brain works [2052.02] Frank: This episode was recorded in front of a live online audience downloaded and edited to make sense when it played audio only [2058.74] Frank: Censored to please the itunes people hosted on the internet forwarded through to your podcast provider [2063.52] Frank: Downloaded playing on your device and is now playing in your ears all thanks to our patreons [2069.3] Frank: Consider joining them and you'll also get other online benefits [2072.74] Frank: Find out more at patreon.com [2075.78] Jack: Let's drone out [2077.62] Jack: How's um, uh, swanee? How's your transmitting stuff? Is it all good? [2082.82] Jack: We've got uh, we we've got someone who could be on express lrs [2087.54] Jack: But it scares them [2090.66] Jack: Scares them about it [2092.34] Jack: Don't know. I think it's just like way too complicated from the psychopaths that are in the community. Obviously [2098.18] Jack: Yeah, it's easy. Like once you got it set up and you tell it your wi-fi password. It's lovely [2104.34] Jack: But it's getting it to that point [2108.58] Curry: That the head banging against the table. I see I never put [2112.02] Curry: Ers on my own network. I just joined to [2114.58] Curry: Ers. Well, I need to [2116.34] Jack: Yeah, it's own network and then yeah, you know [2119.78] Curry: You can you can have it just join to your network and do it different way [2123.54] Jack: There are options and you're just like yeah like the the home [2128.66] Jack: one dot [2130.42] Jack: One 10.0.0.1. Yeah, that's it [2136.02] Curry: Yep, correct it. Speaking of ERS. I've got the most ginormous [2141.54] Curry: Module that i'm testing. Hopefully tomorrow. There's the beach [2145.54] Curry: This is the the radio master ranger and it's got lights and stuff [2151.86] Jack: Watch these lights you're ready for this [2157.38] Curry: Look it's got skylights and different ned strips and it's got buttons and you can assign shortcuts to the buttons [2164.9] Curry: And things which is new different [2169.69] Jack: Yeah, fail safe. I'd like my my oled to work [2176.09] Stephen: All I can say is wrong color fail [2182.26] Jack: Oh, yeah, this is you on your cape stand obsessed in yellow [2187.14] Jack: Someone's got a light. Yeah [2190.44] Jack: I like the yellow oled. It's massive [2193.72] Curry: I don't like the fact that the spin is a bit wonky. It's not consistent. It needs to spin [2198.28] Stephen: It's quite hard holding your your phone with one hand and spinning a cake stand for the other one [2203.56] Curry: Surely you would have like put some motor and gearing in there and said, you know what i'm going to resolve this problem of this [2211.64] Curry: Thinking just like something in there and just like nice and smooth [2215.4] Stephen: But yeah, it does look like an awesome transmitter and it's uh, it's got a metal case and everything, hasn't it? [2221.0] Curry: Bit of a beefcake [2222.6] Curry: Yeah [2223.88] Curry: Is it is it is a giant? [2226.6] Stephen: Will you be enabling the two watt mode to keep your hands warm in winter? [2230.68] Curry: Technically, it hasn't got it hasn't got two watt mode [2234.12] Curry: Unless somebody else changes the code is is what I believe you can go to the web [2238.36] Stephen: You are capable of doing it bang up the max power to [2242.5] Stephen: 2000 milliwatt and change the last character on the power line from a zero to a two and save it [2249.56] Curry: I mean don't remember this bs [2252.52] Curry: You don't need to go after over a hundred milliwatts. I'm going to test it out on right on one watt [2258.6] Curry: Just just for fun just to see what the difference is it like unless you do all your freestyle around cell towers, of course [2265.48] Curry: Yeah, I mean [2266.68] Curry: There is there is a potential reason to use high power and that's if like if you're in a really tricky [2271.96] Curry: rf environment you're literally [2274.12] Curry: There's an abandoned bt tower, but all its antennas are still on and you're flying this as a bando [2280.68] Curry: Then whack it up to two watts and you'll have a good time [2282.76] Stephen: I don't know if you get any video, but you want to fly the russian woodpecker, but it's live for example [2288.68] Curry: That's sort of nice sort of thing [2292.52] Curry: But yeah, hopefully fingers crossed [2295.08] Curry: The the weather doesn't change tomorrow and I can [2298.2] Curry: Go and test it out along with some other stuff [2301.08] Stephen: It's a big gamble anytime. I think it's dry. I go out there and slip over on my ass. So [2307.24] Stephen: I'm not flying for a while hence all the wood builds [2311.4] Curry: Yeah, i've i've got my specific [2314.34] Curry: Fpv outfit. I have I have boots. I have uh, my [2320.28] Curry: My [2321.32] Curry: name [2322.84] Curry: Uh top all in sheet put down. So i've got some of the dry [2327.56] Curry: Keep away from the cows if I can [2330.68] Curry: And and the I know the caravan site there is closed at the moment. So I might be able to go in there [2336.04] Curry: And uh, then the cows can't get me [2338.6] Curry: This is this is all good stuff [2340.6] Curry: That's that's the hope [2342.68] Jack: Chair in the table. That's what you want [2346.36] Curry: Chair and a table I did used to take a chair with me [2349.8] Curry: But now I just sit on the floor on my on my special top all in which I bought from the pantry [2354.92] Stephen: Stand up if it's wet surely [2359.08] Curry: Yeah, it depends what i'm doing it's like [2361.4] Curry: Um, sometimes i'm lazy and i'm out of puff from stomping through the field and being chased by cows [2367.32] Curry: So i'm going to sit down [2368.84] Curry: And it's like I can use the old the excuse of like, you know, I want to test the radio more sitting down [2375.0] Curry: Because it's more difficult for the signal, but yeah, you could stand up [2378.76] Stephen: If you felt that way i've got one of those little helipad things [2381.72] Stephen: But the missus has appropriated the pegs that put it in the ground [2385.16] Stephen: So it's kind of useless because you hover over it with a quad and it blows off [2390.6] Curry: Um, what is she using the pegs for? [2392.84] Stephen: To know they just disappeared into the garden and they haven't come back and have to have words [2397.72] Stephen: Borrowing for all my stuff [2400.92] Curry: Camping shopping and get some more pegs to bank out [2405.4] Jack: Yeah, all right guys i'm going to disappear i'm gonna [2409.24] Jack: Travel up I think [2411.56] Curry: Good luck [2413.0] Jack: Yeah, thank you. I need it. Yeah, luckily [2416.04] Jack: Hopefully I won't make too much of an ass of myself [2419.08] Curry: Is it isn't me or have you slightly straight into your hair for the occasion? [2423.08] Stephen: I have I have done it mode. Yeah, you've got a party. We've got a parting haven't you? [2428.68] Jack: Well some some say [2431.32] Jack: It's very silky frizzy. Good luck. Very smooth. Thank you. No worries. Take care guys. Look after yourself [2439.32] Jack: Bye [2443.0] Jack: Almost hit end broadcast [2448.36] Stephen: Muppets with jetpacks [2451.75] Stephen: It's a nice topic [2453.43] Stephen: Stupid people have yet to kill themselves [2456.07] Stephen: Let me so are you starting out by looking? [2459.99] Stephen: Ah, it's up to you. I started out by looking at the gravity and I was kind of impressed by what was going on with [2467.99] Stephen: Guy, what's his face doing all of his flying and I thought that's very cool [2472.39] Stephen: And then notice that there's there's this loon who appears to have unlimited funds and just buys as many edfs as they can [2479.65] Stephen: Physically get their little mitts on [2482.23] Stephen: and yeah [2484.87] Curry: Yeah, that's it because he started off we we both found this at the same time and reported to each other [2489.75] Curry: he started off with these huge edfs and these these are significant amounts of money and [2497.51] Stephen: Yeah, and then you decide not to use them [2499.99] Curry: Yeah, and every time he plugged it in [2502.31] Curry: He's like, oh smoke's coming out. Stop it a sec. And then he didn't change anything [2507.75] Curry: And then looks he sees the smoke now and then he would go back put it out of a fire extinguisher. Oh, that's bad [2512.79] Curry: Let's try it again without changing anything [2515.49] Curry: expecting a different outcome [2519.35] Curry: So he had massive fires from the lipos [2524.79] Curry: From the escs and these things, you know, these are serious serious [2528.63] Stephen: Money, aren't they? So it's the props inside each of these edfs for our audio listeners [2532.95] Stephen: You're probably looking at a sort of an eight or nine inch prop inside these edfs [2538.39] Stephen: And and he's wired it up with some not too generous cable. So he's probably just simply [2543.91] Stephen: Burning out his solder joints on that cable [2547.03] Stephen: And yeah, just isn't really thinking about it [2549.11] Stephen: So luckily he he decided to have the sort of sensible strategy of [2553.91] Stephen: Going with lots of smaller jets instead of two giant ones [2557.67] Curry: He did actually get to the point where he was trying this out [2560.95] Curry: And what he attempted to do is just rev up a bit and try jumping and then like would fall over because [2569.99] Curry: It was literally just too much to try and hold on to so [2573.67] Curry: He hurt himself. And yeah, then he eventually decided like [2577.35] Curry: I think he actually properly damaged one of these things that he had like a fire [2580.71] Curry: And some of the outer shell was damaged and some of the blades were damaged [2584.07] Curry: The escs and batteries got buggered up. And so yeah, he bought a whole bunch [2588.47] Curry: Of uh small edfs [2590.87] Curry: Still still not what you call a small edf though, is it? [2594.71] Curry: But he sort of figured he wouldn't blow up so much because he was disputing [2599.11] Stephen: maybe a [2600.47] Stephen: sort of four or five inch edf, but like [2603.75] Stephen: Something like that [2605.19] Curry: Oh, hang on. We're on the we're on the advertising section. There we go. Roll through all that bonbons [2610.71] Stephen: yeah, so interesting very interesting, but [2614.55] Stephen: Just that it's not a great deal of planning and here you were calling out his safety precautions [2619.43] Stephen: Which were a bloke on the other end of this rope. Yeah, what's hilarious about this is that there was a bloke holding a rope [2625.99] Curry: But there's no there's no pulley system and the bloke's not particularly strong and here's a guy with or heavy [2633.19] Curry: yeah, so whenever [2635.43] Curry: I was trying to watch it whenever he sort of loses balance [2638.39] Curry: The guy on the rope just like well that hurt my hands and he just falls over anyway, essentially [2643.35] Curry: So it's it's pretty useless [2645.67] Curry: And he took a long time trying to work out his talk [2649.03] Curry: And having a whole bunch of problems [2651.27] Curry: And basically making it worse [2653.35] Curry: He I mean he eventually got it so he could do what is essentially a a small flight if he if you go away to look [2660.07] Stephen: Look at the edfs. He's got what like eight on each hand and a bank on his back that looks like a dozen of them [2666.07] Stephen: Yeah, I think there's just 12 on the back [2669.83] Stephen: Yeah [2671.83] Stephen: Oh, he's he's got a symbol there like 20 edfs [2676.63] Stephen: So it maybe he's heavily sponsored. Otherwise he spent like a couple of grand here on on edfs [2682.15] Curry: Yeah, he said the original big eds were like 20 grand or something he spent on it [2686.47] Curry: But he does he doesn't eventually get [2689.35] Curry: To a point where he can hover [2691.91] Curry: It's not it's not particularly steady and he's scared to do anything [2696.79] Curry: too much with it, but it's uh [2699.51] Curry: I suppose it's impressive that just the fact he didn't really have a 3d modeling [2704.23] Curry: Much of a plan essentially [2705.75] Stephen: He's got the 3d modeling down pat, but it seems everything like the engineering that isn't 3d modeling just [2713.27] Stephen: Isn't really working out for him. He's able to draw things and make them look quite pretty but [2719.35] Stephen: Yeah, I was surprised about with land speeder as well [2722.47] Stephen: But it looks smart [2724.07] Stephen: But actually the wiring and the safety precautions are kind of non-existent and they just rely on flying too high [2730.71] Curry: so if you watch all the way through you would have seen a bit where [2734.07] Curry: something goes wrong [2736.39] Curry: And he's he's trying to get the edf off because it's just going full. There was no [2742.39] Curry: Shut off switch [2743.67] Curry: It's just like let's set it to half throttle and see what happens [2747.11] Curry: Rather than having, you know something on the trigger that he could let go and a safety switch [2751.03] Curry: So yeah, the safety thing's not really fought through that. Well [2754.87] Curry: I think that's his problem, but he's still alive. He's still going. Yeah [2759.11] Curry: and um [2759.91] Stephen: I kind of think like quite jealous. He's got all this money, but it's just a shame [2764.15] Stephen: He hasn't really planned on on using it sensibly. It's just kind of yeah [2769.35] Stephen: Put my life on the line [2771.19] Stephen: Build this thing but not really I mean they let him fly this in in public [2777.43] Stephen: it's just [2779.43] Curry: Yeah, I don't know if he necessarily asks and i'm not convinced he meant to do the spinny landing thing [2785.11] Curry: He's slightly out of control descending [2787.59] Curry: Really? I do like the mask though. That's quite cool [2792.15] Curry: But yeah, I suppose we'll see what happens to it. Yeah, stephen you said you'd you [2796.87] Curry: Been following this guy for a while. I haven't come across him till yeah [2799.51] Stephen: He's been on my subscription feed for a while and he's done these kind of what people were terming hoverboards [2805.43] Stephen: Where you just have a giant multi rotor and you try and stand in the middle of it and not lose a foot [2810.95] Stephen: um, and he he was doing this as well evidently having access to quite the arsenal of [2816.87] Stephen: of of motors and escs, you know the sort of things that x class pilots would [2822.63] Stephen: Give an arm and a leg for and he just appears to have them sort of kicking around [2827.43] Stephen: Which is interesting [2829.99] Stephen: Yeah, there's some good footage here. I guess let me just [2834.07] Stephen: Share this up and I and again, it's this sort of [2837.59] Stephen: You see this the careful the careful testing here i've got a beam to hold on to I don't think he's actually [2843.67] Stephen: He's not strapped onto the beam. He's just kind of like yeah, I can do a pull-up on this. It's going to be fine [2848.07] Curry: I can't I can't see where there's there's a throttle [2851.27] Curry: Like who's controlling who's controlling the power? Where's where's the where's the cutoff switch? [2857.03] Stephen: Yeah [2857.99] Stephen: Yeah, so an aluminum frame with a lot of quite large sort of x class motors probably running. Uh [2864.95] Stephen: 10 13 inch props and um, yeah [2868.63] Stephen: Great results because it's lifted off the ground, but he's having to hold on to a beam to save his life [2876.97] Stephen: Which doesn't exact that's not really what you want tethered would be good, but [2881.53] Stephen: You can't fly anywhere if you're holding on to a beam [2885.53] Curry: Perhaps you could detach the beam and take it with you [2888.89] Stephen: Yeah, maybe I just have like instead of a guy that walks down the road with a flag [2892.97] Stephen: You have a guy that just carries a beam down the road in front of you [2896.73] Curry: exactly [2898.81] Stephen: Yeah, that was a little bit further in in other videos [2904.41] Stephen: But I wonder why people have stopped doing these I I do wonder whether [2908.73] Stephen: Everyone involved has just come a little bit too close to losing their life and stop doing this stuff [2914.33] Stephen: This looks for all the world like he's got a tyrannis there and he's just kind of [2918.97] Stephen: Flying this thing [2920.97] Curry: Flying it because he couldn't work out like oh really I want manual controls. It's like, oh, that's too much hassle [2925.69] Curry: Let's just carry on with the radio control then [2929.05] Curry: He's got a lead running into that thing. So it's not [2932.33] Curry: Lord alone. I don't know. Maybe maybe it's just the fact that like people do it and then they're like [2936.49] Curry: Well now what it's like there's there's nowhere to go from here because this isn't [2940.49] Curry: It's not gonna be a commercial product. I'm not gonna fly it around the park [2943.77] Curry: It's like i'm just gonna get my truck and take my message [2947.69] Curry: Dangerous unlicensed flying vehicle to just have a play around [2952.41] Stephen: Yeah, I think that speaks to the the fact that it's very easy to get six foot off the floor with some giant jets [2958.41] Stephen: But it's really really really difficult to safely travel a kilometer at say 100 meters off the ground [2966.33] Stephen: Exactly. I mean it's kind of like oh i'm gonna do that [2969.93] Curry: It's kind of like the guy that built that co-actual helicopter [2973.79] Curry: He's still very much in hover mode a couple of feet off the ground [2977.63] Curry: And it's like well, you know, I don't blame him [2979.79] Curry: But you know at some point you've got to get off the part haven't you will this thing fly properly? [2985.39] Curry: Or are you just gonna forever hover it around your? [2988.51] Curry: uh local park or whatever it is [2992.27] Stephen: Getting in and out of ground effect must be [2995.23] Stephen: Really tricky with these big vehicles as well because you go from [2999.31] Stephen: To get to the predictable [3000.99] Stephen: Aerodynamics you have to go through the really rough aerodynamics of being stuck in ground effects with [3006.59] Stephen: getting lots of [3007.95] Stephen: Air bouncing off all the uneven surfaces and not giving you a nice consistent thrust profile [3013.95] Curry: Well, that's the thing and the guy with the helicopter [3016.03] Curry: He's literally sitting in ground effect and he's he's moving around a lot and I feel [3021.63] Curry: He'd have a better time because you know, we've all gone and sort of hovered things before [3026.11] Curry: And that can be much more difficult than just literally flying forward [3031.07] Stephen: 10 or the only time it's easy to be like a couple of feet off the ground is when [3036.03] Stephen: You're ripping along with a lot of forward speed and you're not in dirty air [3040.11] Stephen: But if you come to a halt and you try and hold that same height hover [3043.87] Stephen: In dirty air you just get buffeted around a lot by your own deflected thrust [3049.63] Curry: That's it [3051.55] Stephen: The enthusiasm's great Andy, I think that that there's got no quibble with that. It's just [3057.15] Stephen: kind of [3058.19] Stephen: Gives the impression that everyone involved with this is kind of [3062.83] Stephen: A bit amateurish [3064.59] Stephen: Which is a shame [3065.87] Stephen: So I think honestly think if some hobbyists people who've built big [3070.11] Stephen: X-class quads or built even nine or ten inch stuff and who've got good flight profiles out of them [3076.99] Stephen: Like I think it was numbskull who was building some giant quads recently if people like that were to apply the same engineering skills [3083.47] Stephen: to something like this then [3086.51] Stephen: You know, they may not really want to put their lives on the line [3089.39] Stephen: But I think they do a much better job producing something that was flyable [3093.39] Stephen: Whereas it seems there's some youtubers with with a lot of money [3097.39] Stephen: Or maybe an occasional engineer who just thinks i'll go have a go and he did have great engineering skills [3103.07] Stephen: But there was no prior experience from flying anything else that was being translated into that [3110.84] Curry: well, I suppose you never know sometimes this sort of like [3114.44] Curry: The the amateurism of it puts it on kind of its jeopardy and that's that's kind of what you need in exciting videos [3121.0] Curry: Like will I succeed or will I die because if you just [3124.2] Curry: Set out to build something and like i'm going to do this this and this sorted and then you build that's not exciting [3129.4] Curry: We haven't got the jeopardy like will it work? Look it's on fire. Isn't that exciting? I'm still going to ride it [3136.52] Stephen: Colin first is an example who manages like both jeopardy and like half decent engineering I feel so it can be done [3144.12] Curry: Yeah, he doesn't make it look easy [3146.6] Curry: but he's [3148.2] Curry: I was going to say it's relatively safe, but he's not really I suppose he's [3153.24] Curry: Isn't he yeah [3155.4] Curry: Oh, yeah, but he's still doing like 70 miles an hour on crazy little things without like a helmet on and stuff like that [3161.4] Stephen: Yeah, but with gas safe certification, mate [3164.84] Curry: That's what matters [3166.44] Curry: so [3168.36] Curry: Moving on last week [3170.36] Curry: Um, I showed you that video of that ornithopter with the incredible [3174.68] Curry: Wings, which looked very much like a bird and I was so [3178.44] Curry: Taken with this stuff. I was like, can I find myself? [3182.12] Curry: someone is actually making these things [3184.6] Curry: and [3185.48] Curry: That will will sell me one or get me one because I thought this looks really interesting [3190.36] Curry: I thought no one's I must find them fpv. I think that might be really interesting [3195.32] Curry: And I there was this one called the go-go bird, which is this sort of very basic [3199.96] Curry: um almost like [3201.88] Curry: That dji funny motion controller thing and it literally just flaps wings and I was like that's not very exciting [3207.64] Curry: But that was about 200 not bad. I went on to rc groups [3211.96] Curry: And I found this one guy [3214.04] Curry: That seemed to be making them and trying to sell them unlike [3218.2] Curry: That one japanese guy that seems to be just making them and showing everybody [3222.36] Curry: and i'll show you um [3224.6] Curry: a quick video from this [3227.0] Curry: Or perhaps two videos. So we've got [3230.52] Curry: This one here [3232.52] Curry: uh, and if we look at this [3234.92] Curry: This is one of his birds and this is I think is he going to be the two or three meter version like an albatross? [3241.32] Curry: Yeah, and I suppose you could nitpick and say the wings don't quite come down perhaps as far as a regular bird [3247.8] Curry: But the articulation on the wing I thought that's really impressive. That's [3252.28] Curry: That's very cool. And he's got like a proper company. He's called beater and he's made a range of these things [3258.44] Curry: And there is this one and I I got in contact [3262.52] Curry: Doing doing my normal thing and and basically trying trying to get his free products if I can do which [3269.88] Curry: Doesn't necessarily happen. I would never expect it [3271.72] Curry: But I was like, hey [3272.52] Curry: I've got this youtube channel and if if you ever feel like reviewing stuff and want something then I can help you [3278.76] Curry: and [3280.12] Curry: He's like, oh, no. No, these these these cost me an awful lot to put together and there's all these research and [3286.04] Curry: Design things and you know, we've got a factory to pay for on stuff and it's like, okay fair enough [3289.48] Curry: Yeah, you're a small you're a small company. You're not one of the sort of big bang good people or anything. So it's like [3295.32] Curry: Let me know how much they are [3297.16] Curry: And I'll you know, I'll see what I can do because I've got patreon [3299.72] Curry: Maybe they'll be interested in seeing what it is and stuff like that [3303.24] Curry: And I was kind of expecting him to come back with like, you know, you know, this is like [3307.72] Curry: 400 dollars 500 dollars. He did say he's got a smaller one, which I should also [3313.16] Curry: Show you as well called. Um [3315.32] Curry: And there was a a non [3317.78] Curry: articulated wing version [3319.48] Curry: Which at first glance I thought this doesn't sound very exciting because there we ask how much he's charging for that for the [3325.96] Curry: I'm going to come to I'll show you what it looks like first. This is one called [3330.44] Curry: The silver seagulls enhanced enhanced. There you go [3334.2] Curry: And this is this has got his little autopilot system in there. Not articulated wing [3338.36] Curry: It's got an autopilot and a seagull. He's got an autopilot and a seagull. Look i'm not touching the control [3344.2] Curry: It's just flying around and I thought well that's not as exciting but that still looks a lot better than this other one [3350.44] Curry: And so I said, oh, okay fair enough. Well, tell me what the prices are [3355.08] Curry: And I have to say I was a little bit taken aback [3359.4] Curry: Because this little silver seagull we're seeing here [3363.7] Curry: 1099 dollars [3366.28] Curry: He said as as a potential partner, he would give me 5 discount. It's like well [3371.48] Curry: Gonna need it [3373.0] Stephen: That other one I showed you not as an old seagull mate [3376.52] Curry: Yeah [3377.72] Curry: the other one I showed you um [3380.04] Curry: The two meter one five times rtf [3383.46] Curry: 2769 [3385.88] Curry: If you want autopilot and data service, it goes up to four thousand one hundred and forty nine [3390.28] Stephen: And if you go for the three meter wingspan [3395.0] Curry: Three meter wingspan top spec autopilot five thousand five hundred and thirty nine dollars [3401.4] Curry: Hmm and I said to him [3403.64] Curry: That's a little bit out of my price range. I was like just to set the scene [3407.88] Curry: Because because he's like well, how much did you expect them to cost? [3411.08] Curry: And I was like, well [3412.68] Curry: let me tell you modelers, uh [3415.32] Curry: They're quite price driven [3417.08] Curry: And most people when they're looking for a new plane or a new quad [3420.6] Curry: They're looking at two to three hundred dollars if they're digital perhaps a bit more [3424.92] Curry: But two to three hundred dollars is is what you get with uh, you know [3428.52] Curry: Recently quad you'd go at like five hundred dollars more higher spec [3433.48] Curry: and he told me that [3435.88] Curry: Just to send it fedex would be two to three hundred dollars. I was like [3440.92] Curry: Okay [3442.04] Curry: that's [3443.08] Curry: That's insane [3444.68] Curry: I I don't think [3446.44] Curry: Anybody outside of the pure enthusiast market will take it [3451.24] Stephen: I've got a plane from china plane included for a hundred quid [3455.08] Stephen: I know [3456.44] Stephen: The shipping I suppose they don't have the volume but no this is china [3460.84] Curry: This is this is a chinese guy that definitely does recommend me [3464.44] Stephen: If you say no one spends that amount on a plane or a quad, right? [3468.28] Stephen: And there we have left out one crucial group of hobbyists curry [3472.44] Stephen: One crucial group that I have been chatting to this week, which is heli pilots and apparently heli pilots [3479.32] Stephen: will spend [3480.6] Stephen: three grand on a machine [3483.24] Stephen: that [3484.2] Stephen: Breaks and eats itself as soon as it touches the ground with a slight bump [3489.24] Curry: So you make a good point here. So we're talking about the sort of 700 800 size [3494.84] Curry: Yeah helis [3496.68] Stephen: Big 700 size maybe three grand a pop [3500.28] Stephen: fully loaded [3501.4] Curry: So three grand does does it cost two to three hundred dollars in shipping? [3506.52] Stephen: I don't know never tried to ship one [3508.68] Stephen: There's a lot of metal in it though [3510.84] Curry: so the sad conclusion of this tale before we segue into helis again is [3516.6] Curry: I'm [3517.48] Curry: Not able to get one of these because I can't afford it and we've chatted back and forth about [3521.8] Curry: economics [3523.88] Curry: Even if he did I feel the um, the shipping might be more expensive [3527.96] Curry: Once once I get through all my other projects, I'm going to look at building it myself [3532.52] Curry: Because that's how stubborn I am. I was like I can't pay for that [3535.0] Curry: But I will I print it and make try and make it myself [3539.24] Curry: because [3540.44] Curry: With with all due respect to james buntin who is a really good engineer [3545.88] Curry: And try to do an ornithopter [3548.12] Curry: He's really good at robots and stuff, but i've never seen him fly anything else [3551.48] Curry: So maybe i'm coming with a slightly more expertise in flying even [3556.04] Curry: If i'm like a caveman when it comes to knocking stuff together, that's something [3560.28] Stephen: I saw his ornithopter. It did remind me of the pigeon having a seizure [3565.08] Curry: Yeah, I I feel describe its elegant flight. I feel there's stuff you can do there. I feel [3571.16] Curry: If you had some sort of sensors [3573.88] Curry: So you know where each wing is [3576.12] Curry: That you can do a bit more with it and you could you could certainly do some joints in there [3580.36] Curry: Because whenever you're just doing this flapping, it's a little bit. It seems a little bit out of control [3584.44] Stephen: There's there seems more to do exactly but you need independent wings so that each you can control the roll with the wings [3591.24] Stephen: That's what you need. Yeah [3594.2] Curry: And it seems [3595.88] Curry: It seems not too hard [3598.04] Curry: To change the up flap and the down flap because they just literally do this [3602.68] Curry: Whereas it it seems quite easy to to joint the wings. So when they come up like when a bird strikes upwards [3608.76] Curry: He he's not old keeping his wings flat. He keeps them in so he doesn't [3613.0] Curry: Resist all that wind and spoil his list lift [3616.84] Stephen: And they also the the up stroke and down stroke are not the same amount of time [3620.52] Stephen: there's like quick up stroke and like when you're swimming a kind of slow push down and then quick up and [3626.52] Stephen: Whereas I think a lot of them are just kind of [3629.24] Stephen: Just like that [3630.68] Stephen: Yeah, exactly. Really sophisticated in terms of the motion [3634.68] Curry: It'll be interesting. You had a good you had a good segue here into helicopters because I know you were talking about rotor flight a little bit [3640.52] Stephen: I was fascinated by this despite the fact that i've never really flown a heli other than one which I think I [3646.28] Stephen: Won at a conference which is ir controlled and absolutely bobbins. Basically the christmas cracker toy version of helicopters [3654.2] Stephen: um, I was fascinated that a group had taken beta flight [3659.16] Stephen: And they turned it into rotor flight [3662.84] Stephen: By rewriting the pit controller and having all this tail assist stuff that would enable the tail to do your your [3670.6] Stephen: I thought that was pretty awesome [3672.44] Stephen: And someone popped up in chat and said I want to run osd. How do I do that? And I said [3678.2] Stephen: What what what? Oh, yeah, we're in beta flight forums. You you run osd by enabling the osd and they said no, no, no, no [3685.16] Stephen: I'm running rotor flight and I want to enable osd. I need msp osd for my walk snail enabled [3693.22] Stephen: helicopter [3694.6] Stephen: and this was [3696.6] Stephen: Caught me on the back foot and I thought well that's [3699.96] Stephen: That is unusual. Yeah, that's not something you hear about every day [3703.48] Stephen: And I said, well, why can't you just enable a feature? And it's like well, I enable a feature [3707.88] Stephen: It just doesn't turn on and then we found out they'd actually hardware disabled it and they've removed [3713.4] Stephen: A whole load of the bits of code that used for osd and we kind of went back and forth and [3718.76] Stephen: ended up [3720.12] Stephen: Telling the guy which bits of code to change and he got a custom build that worked with his walk snail and stuff and [3726.28] Stephen: I was just fascinated by it. He showed me some of his flight videos without the osd and [3731.62] Stephen: Surprisingly smooth for heli i'd seen heli [3734.92] Stephen: Videos before where it honestly looked like someone attached the camera to a hammer drill and was waving it around [3741.56] Stephen: And this thing was it's pretty good. It was surprisingly good [3746.92] Stephen: So, yeah kind of got in touch with dr rudder [3751.72] Stephen: Probably not his real name [3754.68] Stephen: And and just had a bit of a natter about it and it's a fascinating little project [3758.68] Stephen: they've taken beta flight four two and just put a whole bunch of heli stuff and they've got a special heli configurator and [3765.64] Stephen: Apparently it it is the only open source heli flight control firmware because most of the heli stuff due to its kind of [3774.68] Stephen: lack of [3776.28] Stephen: availability and lack of competition is all closed source and costs an arm and a leg and uh [3781.56] Stephen: Yeah, it's just fascinating to find out about this stuff [3784.52] Stephen: It seems cheap and you you can take some little whoop aios and put them in smaller helis and bigger helis [3790.52] Stephen: You can put like f7 flight controllers and you build heli 32 escs and all that. It's um, just an interesting project [3800.12] Curry: Yeah, sounds it I quite like the idea of gps hold as well if they get around to that when i'm [3804.84] Curry: I I kind of need the panic button to say uh, oh it's gone wrong click [3809.0] Stephen: Yeah, fortunately i'm out of trouble gps and barrow hold as well because barometer is a lot more specific [3815.56] Stephen: It drifts a little bit over time, but you want to like lock in a height with a heli and the barometer holds will just [3821.64] Stephen: Lock it in there. So yeah, very interesting little project [3825.24] Curry: Interesting. Yeah, someone recommended it to me while I was starting out with the little heli i've got and I said [3831.0] Curry: That's possibly a little bit too small for me to fiddle around with [3834.6] Curry: And get that sorted in there, but um [3837.24] Curry: Yeah, it's certainly interesting. It's interesting as well because although we think is like, you know, fpv quads is quite a large community [3843.48] Curry: If you think about the sort of traditional [3845.64] Curry: Modelers in the clubs running helis there must be probably more more guys doing that than that [3851.16] Stephen: apparently much [3852.68] Stephen: But well the guy on this project said that the quads are way more popular and he had hardly anyone had less than a hundred [3858.44] Stephen: People using rotor flight and there are people who wanted to breathe new life into their old helis [3863.4] Stephen: But essentially they've just got one and a bit maintainers for the whole project [3868.12] Stephen: and it's hard to convince heli pilots that they should use this because they [3872.2] Stephen: Just don't want to trust anything except the flight controller it came with because there's so much money in the air [3878.44] Stephen: And so they're deliberately using older versions of beta flight because you know, they don't want any surprises [3885.32] Stephen: It's a very interesting community when it's hard to test anything with a quad you test it. Oh, yeah [3891.56] Stephen: Oh, it is trying to fly off on its own. Oh, never mind. Hang on [3894.68] Stephen: Let me just disarm it and go and pick it up with a heli. You're like, yeah, that's it's a grand bin. It's just [3901.0] Stephen: Spread over a field now [3905.02] Stephen: Interesting completely opposite mindset [3907.42] Curry: Yeah [3908.86] Stephen: Anyway, we we patreon's up now. So we're out of time. We have we we've reached the end of the show [3914.7] Curry: And uh, yeah, we we'd like to thank our patreons [3917.02] Curry: thanks so much for helping us with the show all the the money goes into paying things like editors and [3922.94] Curry: Fees to put stuff on spotify and hosting and stuff and it keeps us going. So we thank you all [3928.22] Curry: and uh [3929.82] Curry: Yes, as caroline says turbine model jets are multi thousand pounds too. Yeah, you're right. They're like [3935.5] Curry: Can go 10 to 20 grand for a decent jet there. So that is more expensive than a model bird, but I kind of feel [3944.06] Curry: That while a jet turbine has a jet turbine in it a flying bird still has a brushes motor [3949.34] Curry: EOC and a couple of servos so an artisanal artisanal handmade flying bird. Yeah made in china [3956.86] Curry: Yes [3957.74] Curry: Anyway, we'll wrap it up there. Thanks to all of you guys [3961.02] Curry: Uh, thanks for joining us and we'll be back to an amazing free people once again for next week [3967.82] Curry: until that time [3969.5] Curry: Say goodbye to steven. Goodbye. Have a good weekend [3972.78] Curry: I've been carry kitten who's everyone's favorite even though they never show up for us [3976.86] Curry: And we'll catch you next one. Thanks for joining us [3979.58] UNKNOWN: Happy flying and we'll see you. Bye in the next video. Bye