=== Let's Drone Out — Episode 380 ===
Title: LDO 380 - With Special Guest Marc Of INav Fixed Wing Group
Recorded: 2022-12-08
Hosts: Stephen "Belrik" Howell, Wayne "CurryKitten" Andrews, Jack "Brightontillifly" Nash, Andrew "Frank" Hyams
Guest(s): Adam G, Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann
Total audience: 1,866
Platforms: YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMmsMipeGQ8); SoundCloud (http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/feeds.soundcloud.com/stream/1399631935-letsdroneout-ldo-380-with-special-guest-marc-of-inav-fixed-wing-group.mp3)
=====================================

Check out iNav Fixed Wing Group Online: https://inavfixedwinggroup.com 
https://www.facebook.com/groups/INAVFixedWing

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[0.0] Jack: Hello, and you're listening to Let's Drone Out, a special thank you to our lovely patrons
[6.28] Jack: that help donate so that we can pay the editor to remove the swear words and silly things
[11.36] Jack: we say.
[13.0] Jack: Massive thank you to Carlos Campos, Art Faulkner, Sam Dahmer.
[19.68] Stephen: On with the show.
[21.0] Jack: Hello, and you're listening to Let's Drone Out.
[55.14] Jack: Tonight we are hopefully talking about lots of lovely iNav things, and we've got a special
[62.14] Jack: guest.
[63.34] Jack: Is it B1 for Becky Tech?
[68.42] Jack: It's just Blackie, or just St. Mark.
[70.26] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: It's also good.
[71.26] Jack: Blackie, yeah.
[72.26] Jack: Everyone's favourite, Curry Kitten.
[75.26] Jack: Hello.
[76.26] Jack: The man with the moustache, Stephen.
[78.9] Stephen: Cheers, hello.
[79.9] Jack: And I'm bright until I fly.
[82.22] Jack: Hello, and welcome.
[83.82] Jack: And let's start the show.
[86.1] Jack: Yep, Stephen, this is a show that was arranged and sorted out by you.
[91.74] Jack: So if you'd like to take the link.
[94.18] Stephen: So I talked to Mark originally.
[97.22] Stephen: I think I picked an argument with Mark to be more accurate on one of his YouTube videos.
[101.94] Stephen: And then we had a really nice chat, and it seems a great guy, and he's doing a lot of
[106.02] Stephen: stuff with iNav, doing some very interesting things with wings.
[109.06] Stephen: There's some interesting radio work that he's looked at.
[112.38] Stephen: So he's done flying via 2G modems and things like this.
[118.66] Stephen: He's just showing us his 3D printed plane.
[120.76] Stephen: So I think we've got a lot of very interesting wing talk and kind of seeing what the cutting
[125.26] Stephen: edge iNav stuff is going to be in the next release as well.
[128.42] Stephen: So looking forward to interesting wing things.
[130.94] Jack: Yeah, it does feel weird not having Pavel here and talking about iNav.
[136.14] Jack: It feels wrong.
[137.14] Jack: Should I have emailed him?
[141.14] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: We can talk to him again.
[144.94] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: I mean, I think Pavel also has a lot of other things in his head right now.
[149.54] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: He wants to dial down a little bit.
[152.34] Stephen: So I specifically was talking to Mark because he's running this iNav fixed wing group.
[157.66] Stephen: So he's actually going and organizing a group, and they've got a monthly, very long form
[162.94] Stephen: podcast a couple of hours long where they go really in depth about wing things.
[167.18] Stephen: So that's the idea.
[168.7] Jack: Is that the one we're falling with style?
[170.82] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: Yeah, MrD falling with style is also in there.
[174.58] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: So yeah, what do we want to talk about first?
[178.78] Curry: Tell us first about this very first plane you flew because you were just showing us
[183.06] Curry: and you said the first plane I flew was 3D printed and the first thing you did was reverse
[189.38] Curry: the ailerons.
[190.38] Curry: And I can't think how they would have splinted into a million pieces.
[193.78] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: Yeah, I mean the plane did splint into a million pieces.
[198.1] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: After a very short flight, I think the advantage I had was it was my first flight.
[203.22] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: I never trained in a simulator whatsoever.
[206.7] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: All my stick feel I had at this situation.
[211.1] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: Yes, because all my all my stick feel I had was for basically from video games.
[217.9] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: And so I was actively thinking what I'm doing.
[221.7] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: And that's why I really fast recognize that something is wrong and it could just rethink
[226.8] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: in my head.
[228.08] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: If you build up the muscle memory, that's nearly impossible.
[232.56] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: Then there's no chance to control it inverted.
[236.28] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: I just can check out or look up my video.
[240.8] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: I have it on YouTube somewhere.
[242.8] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: Yeah, it was a 3D printed Spitfire.
[247.04] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: It's I think 90 millimeter in ring span from 3D leopard.
[252.84] Stephen: And that was my entry in the RC or a lot of people start with very basic easy craft.
[260.22] Stephen: You started with a 3D printed plane, but the first thing out the gate, you're like, what
[264.24] Stephen: I need to start with is something that's 3D printed, not exactly a traditional approach
[269.08] Stephen: to plane flying.
[272.66] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: Don't start 3D printed.
[275.26] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: I learned from that definitely don't don't do it because your first landings will be
[280.14] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: relatively hard and the 3D prints cannot really do that.
[283.74] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: I mean, there are some exceptions, for example, small things like this one printed in low
[289.9] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: weight PLA low weight PLA has the advantage.
[294.74] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: It's pretty flexible compared to a normal PLA.
[298.5] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: So you can you see, you can easily press it in it.
[302.3] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: It's like a thick paper, basically, it feels like a thick paper and it doesn't break that
[307.54] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: easily compared to a hard printed PLA.
[312.9] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: This stuff can hold up more, but it's nothing compared to a phone, for example.
[319.06] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: And yeah, if you want, I can, I found the video, I can show you the clip from my first
[325.86] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: ever RC flight.
[327.98] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: So yeah, it was complete crap out where the the motor had these things at full throttle.
[333.46] Stephen: It's in the air for quite a long time so far.
[335.7] Stephen: That's a good sign.
[337.1] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: It was also not the not the best idea to print it in transparent PLA.
[345.98] Jack: Oh, good luck with the yeah, it's gone.
[351.62] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: Oh, no, and then there was a wind cast from the left.
[354.9] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: Oh, and instinct and instinctively, I corrected into the wrong direction.
[360.9] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: And yeah, that was the end of that flight.
[364.02] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: Yeah, it was my first RC flight ever.
[366.3] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: And I have some memories from it.
[368.3] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: It was still more impressive than mine, because mine went instantly into the ground.
[372.46] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: Oh, okay.
[373.46] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: Yeah.
[374.46] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: That's hard.
[375.46] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: I mean, I have rebuilt it.
[378.22] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: I mean, the print time on a single printer is about three days.
[382.86] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: And at this time, I was visiting my parents over a holiday week.
[389.06] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: And I just printed a new one there.
[391.74] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: I drove back home, got my printer back to my parents to print the new plane there.
[398.38] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: And I tried again.
[400.38] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: I think I flew there like it's great having you home with this.
[406.7] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: Yeah, I mean, I at least did I think one pack flight on the second try that got some damage
[414.82] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: during landing.
[416.22] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: And I think a few weeks later, I looked for for model RC or a seaplane club, actually
[422.54] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: with a landing field, a nice medal to land in.
[428.3] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: And there the guys told me how to fly an RC plane.
[431.58] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: And after that, it was much easier.
[434.78] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: What was the trick?
[435.78] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: Yeah, the trick was basically repeated, just fly circuits first, very simple things, no
[444.5] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: crazy stuff.
[445.62] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: Don't change directions.
[446.94] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: Just fly really in a circuit in one direction first for a whole time, then the other direction.
[452.58] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: And then you get a feel about the flying, especially if you fly towards you, that then
[457.74] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: the controls are actually inverted.
[460.5] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: So just step by step, I just wanted too much with that plane.
[463.42] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: And they were impressed that it's even possible to 3D print RC planes, but they also said
[470.1] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: it won't last long.
[471.46] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: And I think the one of the guys there, he did the first flight in the field, completely
[479.78] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: launch a few rounds, then landing second flight, he launched, gave me the radio, I was flying,
[485.74] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: he was landing and basically step by step.
[487.86] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: And then I trained the landing.
[490.06] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: And at the end, I flew completely alone.
[493.42] Stephen: So what was your journey from then to go from that to FPV and then all the advanced I have
[498.1] Stephen: stuff that you're doing now?
[501.34] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: From that, I basically then switched into quads, because I wasn't aware that there
[508.46] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: is really stuff with RC planes and fix or these foam RC planes.
[514.86] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: I wasn't really aware of them.
[517.3] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: So the reason basically why I even started with RC was I was sick at home for two weeks.
[525.02] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: I binge watched YouTube, whatever it suggested to me.
[529.26] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: And at one point, I suddenly saw an advertisement or a review video of the Anet A8 3D printer.
[535.78] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: And I found this 3D printing actually so cool that I ordered one because it was cheap.
[540.54] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: And then I had that printer and I thought, okay, now I have it.
[544.1] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: What else can I do then printing cubes?
[548.16] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: And this is how I started to think, okay, I wanted to have an RC plane some years in
[554.94] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: the past already as a child.
[557.58] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: And then I looked for it and I found out, okay, you can print one.
[561.46] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: Then I had this first experience with the plane.
[563.54] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: And then I came over quads and then started with that.
[568.1] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: But after a while, I just, by the way, also 3D printed quads.
[572.18] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: So 3D printed frames and everything.
[574.62] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: They will definitely break, I can tell you that.
[579.7] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: Yeah, they did a few times.
[581.66] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: So I went through a few iterations of different frames I tried.
[586.94] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: And from there, then I found out, hey, there are fixed rings that are made of foam that
[594.26] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: are pretty crash resistant.
[596.94] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: And that's when I bought my first RC plane and that was an AR Pro.
[601.26] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: Back then I looked on the internet, tried to compare something cheap, I can smash, I
[607.22] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: can damage, that doesn't hurt.
[609.18] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: So I was deciding between the S800 and the AR Pro back then, oh no, the AR 900.
[616.02] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: And at the end, it was the AR 900 just because of the bigger bay and less hassle to install
[622.26] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: stuff.
[623.26] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: And yeah, so I got the AR 900.
[626.14] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: I looked up for flight controllers, found a ring flight controller, easy setup.
[630.62] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: I throw everything in, fly sky I6 radio with an X8B receiver and I went out and flew it.
[642.18] Stephen: Does any of this sound familiar to you, Curry?
[644.82] Stephen: All these wing models mean nothing to me, I'm more of a quad guy.
[648.74] Curry: Yes, they mean things, but it's all pretty much the same.
[655.62] Curry: Like foamies are several different styles.
[658.4] Curry: One is wing type like that, the other is your more sort of traditional plane type stuff
[665.16] Curry: like the Bixler on the wall behind the air light.
[669.48] Stephen: That guy looks like it's intended for FPV, it's got a really massive nose to shove cameras
[673.76] Stephen: in, right?
[674.76] Curry: Yeah, I mean, they're much more useful.
[676.68] Curry: Base base is what it's all about.
[677.92] Curry: When I started off, I started flying an AXN and that's because good old Bruce did a video
[683.64] Curry: about how to build one, but there was so little space.
[686.56] Curry: You had to chop it down just to fit a 2200 battery in and then you had to try and crush
[691.04] Curry: sort of a camera somewhere in a BTX.
[693.36] Curry: If you want to do any sort of AP, it's like, where's that going to sit?
[696.4] Curry: It's not going to sit in.
[697.4] Curry: So these modern wings have any huge base, which can take humongous batteries and a place
[703.64] Curry: for a flight controller and cutouts for a camera already and nice sort of trailing for
[708.48] Curry: the ESCs and even have wing slots cut for your like receiver GPS and stuff.
[713.2] Curry: It's much, much better just built for purpose these days.
[717.6] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: So fun fact, this is my third ARring 900 because after a while they just get damaged or smashed
[724.24] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: or whatever and I rebuilt it a few times and it's still the exact same flight controller
[729.6] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: I had in my first one after now four years or five years still working.
[736.72] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: And nowadays I just use this one as a enough development test platform basically for wings.
[742.96] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: And I just bought a big slot two with an F405WSE flight controller, basically the newer
[749.92] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: smaller variant of that one to have also a test platform with a normal RC or normal plane
[758.04] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: design with elevator and rudder.
[760.56] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: And I crammed it full of sensors just for things we might develop in the future for
[766.92] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: INAF and test that out.
[769.24] Stephen: So F405 is the way to go then in general, you've got an F405STD or something, the original
[774.16] Stephen: one?
[775.16] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: No, I don't have many quad flight controllers.
[778.04] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: I have in my old test platform plane that was-
[781.16] Stephen: I'm just trying to remember what the early version of that wing controller was called,
[785.56] Stephen: the MATEC.
[786.56] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: Yeah, I think it was basically a four or five STD standard.
[792.52] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: That was the quad version.
[795.28] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: I mean, you see, if you watch what flight controllers MATEC has released over the last
[800.16] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: years, they have really focused on fixed rings.
[803.56] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: That's their top notch.
[805.56] Stephen: The form factor is not quad at all.
[807.72] Stephen: The form factor is this odd kind of dual stack thing that you couldn't fit into any quad
[812.44] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: frame really.
[814.96] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: They have quad flight controllers, of course, but I think the quad community has completely
[822.56] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: focused on the big quad brands like Diatone, DJB flight controllers, for example, sometimes
[832.08] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: even Omnibus and Holy Bro.
[834.96] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: I think these are also the top flight controllers that are used in the quad community, less
[840.2] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: matik.
[841.2] Stephen: I give up trying to fish around.
[843.96] Stephen: I've got an H743 somewhere on this bench, which I intend to put into a quad MATEC one
[849.88] Stephen: because I think it's actually the best 20 millimeter H7 controller you can get.
[855.36] Stephen: You can't get, you get that in a T-motor H7 at 20 mil and the T-motor, it looks okay.
[863.24] Stephen: It's got a single gyro, the Matex dual gyro.
[866.48] Stephen: The T-motor has direct V-bat going out to the VTX.
[870.44] Stephen: That's got a, the MATEC's got a 10 volt Beck on it or an eight volt Beck.
[874.04] Stephen: It's a really nice flight controller, but very expensive at the moment as well.
[879.32] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: That dual gyro is actually interesting because I still wonder why Matex even does dual gyros
[887.76] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: because I remember from the F765 Ring flight controller, that's this gyro fusion, this
[894.92] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: big baby.
[898.12] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: No flight control software does gyro fusion, not even autopilot.
[901.32] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: Right.
[902.32] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: The flight does.
[903.32] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: Really?
[904.32] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: Okay.
[905.32] UNKNOWN: I didn't know that.
[906.32] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: Okay.
[907.32] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: In this case, of course, it makes sense on the Ring flight controller.
[909.96] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: It makes a little bit less sense.
[911.56] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: Maybe they thought I now might get it in the future.
[915.0] Stephen: You can also look, and if one of them has like loads of noise problems for whatever
[918.96] Stephen: reason, maybe it's had a little damage, then you can just swap to the other one without
[924.12] Stephen: replacing the board.
[925.12] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: Yeah, that's true.
[926.12] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: The F, the F765 has an MPU 6000 and an ICM211 something, and the ICM is absolute garbage.
[935.0] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: It's unusable, even on fixed rings.
[937.64] Stephen: Yeah, that's my concern.
[939.52] Stephen: They keep changing the gyros on the Matex boards.
[942.32] Stephen: They're up to like version three now and you have to check and like, this one has these
[946.08] Stephen: two gyros and the next version has two other gyros and the third version has two other
[950.28] Stephen: gyros and it's like to memorize phone numbers.
[953.88] Stephen: It's challenging.
[954.88] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: Yeah, but it's actually only a problem on the H7 flight controllers.
[959.52] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: The other ones are pretty much consistent.
[963.56] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: The, yeah, I think they are all using ICM48 something right now.
[970.52] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: They are all using the Q&A ICM gyros.
[973.0] Stephen: Yeah, I can't remember the number.
[974.56] Stephen: It's like 4866P or something, 42688P, I think.
[981.24] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: Yeah, the only exemption is the F411WTE that uses the Bosch BMI 270 gyro.
[990.32] Stephen: Where do they get these names from?
[991.92] Stephen: What does WTE mean?
[993.6] Stephen: I was trying to decipher that weird.
[997.6] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: F411W for wing and TE third edition.
[1001.88] Stephen: Third edition.
[1002.88] Stephen: What?
[1003.88] Stephen: Third edition, not three, like W3, no?
[1007.24] Stephen: Would that be too easy?
[1008.24] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: That's the F411 ring.
[1011.32] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: Then it was the WSE for ring second edition, the small one and the WTE is the one with
[1017.0] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: the USB-C connector.
[1020.0] Stephen: That's not helpful.
[1021.08] Stephen: That's weird.
[1022.08] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: It's even more funny with the F405, F405 ring is the one here, F405WSE is the smaller
[1030.32] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: one with the external USB, then it's F405WTE for the third edition.
[1037.12] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: That's the one with ExpressLS and Wi-Fi on top.
[1041.04] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: All Wi-Fi.
[1042.04] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: And there is the, yeah, ExpressLS, all Wi-Fi, you can switch the firmware.
[1047.64] Stephen: I was in the illusion they could do both for a while and I found out, no, they cannot.
[1053.28] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: I just ordered my first one and there is the F405WM, no, WMN, that's the ring mini.
[1062.44] Jack: That does not confuse.
[1067.64] Jack: Did you do HDTE and there's TE?
[1072.92] Curry: Well that hasn't got a W in the name, so it's not for a wing, is it, surely?
[1076.24] Stephen: So that's high definition, third edition, why don't they just use numbers?
[1082.28] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: The HD versions, of course, have no OSD chip and that's also the third edition.
[1087.8] Jack: Oh my God, this is...
[1091.64] Stephen: It's like alphabet soup, isn't it?
[1093.64] Stephen: It might as well be.
[1095.48] Stephen: They're great boards, they really are very well made, but my word, the numbers.
[1099.68] Stephen: They are slightly hard to choose.
[1101.28] Curry: Once you've chosen one, it's just like, oh, I know how this one works, I want to buy this
[1104.32] Curry: one again and then they sort of, oh, they've stopped making that one now, I'm just finding
[1109.0] Curry: everyone.
[1110.0] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: Yeah.
[1111.0] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: I mean, I have a big variety of Maytek boards now, but that's mostly because there's a new
[1117.8] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: board coming out and I asked Samsung, hey, this and this looks nice, or I have a question
[1125.96] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: it, do you want one?
[1127.56] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: Okay.
[1128.56] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: And then he sends it to me, so this is mostly the reason why I have so many different Maytek
[1133.88] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: boards.
[1134.88] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: Usually I just bought by the F4 or F5 series or the F765 for bigger planes and that's it.
[1142.72] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: I haven't once seen an H7 board.
[1145.32] Stephen: Yeah.
[1146.32] Stephen: I'm just a sucker for the shiny.
[1148.56] Stephen: So I decided there wasn't much difference between an F7 and an H7.
[1153.32] Stephen: So I started to buy H7s, but something else I noticed on your channel is you have this
[1159.4] Stephen: incredible flight that you've done where you were controlling the wing over GSM.
[1165.84] Stephen: Could you tell us how you got there?
[1169.36] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: Yeah.
[1170.76] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: This was not controlling the plane over GSM.
[1173.92] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: The GSM just delivers the telemetry to me.
[1176.64] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: What I did is I was making a waypoint mission that I flew out of the city because I launched
[1184.12] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: in that park.
[1185.12] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: Back then I didn't have a car, so I had to fly somewhere in that park that I can run
[1189.36] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: and reach by foot or by tram.
[1193.92] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: From there I flew a waypoint mission and there's a GSM module with a firmware on it that is
[1200.08] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: called BulletGCSS.
[1203.64] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: This module basically is an ESP32 board with a SIM module on it.
[1209.2] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: I think it's a SIM700L or SIM800L, I'm not sure right now, connects to your internet
[1217.24] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: provider and sends the data out to QTT server.
[1226.72] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: From there the data are just shown on a website where you have basically a full telemetry
[1232.52] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: screen.
[1233.52] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: Exactly that, yeah.
[1236.32] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: So this is just a website.
[1238.0] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: This feature, this QTT support is also implemented in the multi-replanar ground control station
[1246.48] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: software that only runs on Linux or on Windows L with the Linux app system.
[1252.28] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: You can basically follow your plane from there.
[1255.08] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: At this stage in the development there is no way to send any commands to the plane,
[1259.52] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: so it's only for monitoring and getting telemetry.
[1264.12] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: It's running over MSP.
[1266.76] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: There are plans to implement some basic commands back to the plane like just trigger a return
[1273.6] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: to home, for example, or similar stuff, not active control because it's just too slow
[1278.56] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: for that.
[1281.8] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: But yeah, the developer unfortunately didn't have much time over the last year, so there
[1286.56] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: wasn't any progress.
[1287.96] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: But it is working.
[1288.96] Stephen: It's still fantastic.
[1289.96] Stephen: I mean, for our audio viewers, we're looking at a webpage, BulletGCSS, that's showing something
[1297.2] Stephen: that has a map display on one side with the current location and the other side shows
[1303.24] Stephen: the telemetry that you're getting back, similar to kind of the Yapoo telemetry screen.
[1307.68] Stephen: So you've got your horizon lines, heading voltages, your location and GPS coordinates,
[1314.0] Stephen: satellite numbers, the distance to home, battery and all that.
[1318.04] Stephen: And the effect is pretty impressive.
[1320.28] Stephen: For a basic open source project that is still under development, I mean, yeah, I can't vault
[1327.24] Stephen: this thing.
[1328.44] Stephen: It's a ton better than what you can get off the radio.
[1330.44] Stephen: It really makes you think about some of the possibilities once you start to just shove
[1334.48] Stephen: data through a mobile phone.
[1336.24] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: Why before that flight, I did another project with my Italian GT and it was flying more
[1342.16] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: than 70 kilometer long waypoint mission with it.
[1346.08] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: And that was out of reach of my radio link.
[1349.08] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: So it was planned far away from any populated area, low altitude, completely autonomous
[1355.04] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: flying.
[1356.04] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: I knew that at some point, our ceiling will drop.
[1361.48] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: The video link was gone because I was basically flying behind a hill that is close to me.
[1367.52] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: And I had no feedback at all if the plane was even still flying until I think it took
[1375.32] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: 22 minutes until I saw the first glimpse of FPV signal on my monitor bag.
[1381.8] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: And that was such a big relief.
[1383.64] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: And for such kind of things, this project is actually perfect.
[1388.08] Stephen: This is the bit where the GPS later ducks out, right?
[1391.88] Stephen: Yes, exactly.
[1393.4] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: Yeah.
[1394.4] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: This module, it's a very cheap one.
[1396.32] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: I think it was 20, 25 bucks or so.
[1399.24] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: It's only 2G connection.
[1401.72] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: And 2G here in Germany is whatsoever and is still very unstable.
[1407.16] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: So the next time...
[1408.16] Stephen: I don't even know if we have 2G still.
[1409.52] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: I think UK has 2G already completely disabled, as far as I know.
[1414.56] Curry: But you can get 3G ones.
[1415.56] Curry: It's just like 20.
[1416.56] Curry: It's got some 3D edge or something, doesn't it?
[1418.36] Curry: And then it gets worse from there.
[1420.24] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: There are 4G modules as well, but they are a little bit heavier, a little bit bigger.
[1424.84] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: And they cost like four times that of the 2G module.
[1428.76] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: And just for an experiment, I decided to go for the 2G one.
[1432.36] Stephen: The benefits of going for 3G or 4G would be you're talking to multiple towers with 2G.
[1438.04] Stephen: You talk to a single tower and you send data to that tower.
[1441.08] Stephen: And when you're out of range and you need to change towers, you've got to stop sending
[1443.88] Stephen: data, connect to another tower, and then start sending data.
[1447.8] Stephen: Whereas with 3G and 4G, that handover is more seamless.
[1450.8] Stephen: You're connecting to multiple different towers.
[1453.24] Stephen: So when you go out of range of one, you don't have this black spot where you freeze for
[1457.72] Stephen: a second before you move to the next tower.
[1460.64] Curry: I think the interesting idea flying a waypoint mission like that is, of course, you have
[1465.92] Curry: to set your aircraft to say, in the event of a failsafe, carry on going because you've
[1472.28] Curry: lost your radio signal, obviously.
[1475.4] Curry: But you don't have to trust that your waypoint is going to continue.
[1479.72] Curry: And well, at least you're able to track it.
[1481.6] Curry: I bet you've never watched a screen quite so intently as you are when you're watching
[1487.2] Curry: something fly away that far.
[1490.8] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: This was not the blind version.
[1492.8] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: The blind flight.
[1493.8] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: The blind flight was a few months earlier.
[1497.52] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: So here I had complete control.
[1499.42] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: But indeed, yeah, when I lost the control and I just had my FPV feed and my telemetry,
[1503.88] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: I really stared at that monitor.
[1506.44] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: And even more problematic was back then I used the R9 on ACCST protocol.
[1513.24] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: And there was this nasty R9 or FRSky ACCST bug that if you regain connection after a
[1521.04] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: failsafe, there is like a 20% chance that half of your RC channels glitched to zero
[1529.56] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: for a short moment on reconnect.
[1531.52] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: And this can actually cause a disarm of the plane or a mode switch and yeah, that's not
[1538.8] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: funny.
[1539.8] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: Yeah, that's not fun.
[1541.48] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: That's not fun.
[1542.48] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: That's why during that long range mission where I knew I would not have RC link, I flew
[1547.6] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: out to a point where I still had a stable connection.
[1551.64] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: And then I pulled the module of my radio to intentionally cause a failsafe myself.
[1557.04] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: Because when you go into failsafe, everything is fine.
[1559.28] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: The problem is if you return from the failsafe and then I let it fly until it came back and
[1565.16] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: I had stable video and only after I had stable video, I plucked the module back in.
[1569.68] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: And this was when the glitch happened and the plane went out of out of mission mode
[1575.76] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: into Acro.
[1577.04] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: But luckily at that point, I could take over and manually trigger return to home.
[1584.68] Curry: And people wonder why R9 didn't catch you on.
[1587.44] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: Wow.
[1588.44] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: I mean, I use access now for two years.
[1592.24] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: And with access, you don't have these problems anymore.
[1594.6] Curry: Access just works.
[1596.12] Curry: You're actually still using the R9 software on an R9.
[1598.52] Curry: You haven't just gone to Express LRS on it then.
[1602.0] Stephen: We had this discussion a while back.
[1604.16] Stephen: I think I agree with Mark on many things, but I'm skeptical on this point.
[1608.96] Stephen: I think a skeptical is the correct word.
[1611.04] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: I mean, I know Express LRS works for many people, but also Express LRS had issues in the past.
[1618.0] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: We had in the Ina Fixturing group, we had on Express LRS 3.0 shortly after release.
[1626.4] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: And I think 2.6 something or so.
[1630.4] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: We have three lost planes because of Express LRS.
[1633.76] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: There seemed to be a bug that if you phase-safe at a big distance, for example,
[1639.28] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: then you regain control after a few minutes after regaining control, the receiver just locked up.
[1646.8] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: It didn't report a phase-safe to the flight controller.
[1648.96] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: It just locked up all channels.
[1651.6] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: And if you are in Acro at this point, the plane will just go down and set throttle and crash.
[1659.36] Stephen: Ooh, that's fast.
[1660.72] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: We had three people that had the problem.
[1664.4] Stephen: Did you report the bug? Did they find out why?
[1668.0] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: We never couldn't replicate it.
[1669.92] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: Actually, we didn't want to replicate it.
[1672.56] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: I'm not sure if the people have replicated it.
[1675.28] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: It wasn't my planes.
[1677.2] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: We just got a report of that.
[1678.4] Stephen: It'll be interesting to see why.
[1680.4] Stephen: I know the developers were keeping the modules connected through brick walls and things
[1685.6] Stephen: and leaving them running for 24 hours to test that they worked and stuff like this,
[1689.44] Stephen: but I hadn't heard of that.
[1690.96] Stephen: That's really interesting.
[1692.24] Stephen: I wonder what would cause that.
[1694.0] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: No idea.
[1695.76] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: This is basically the stuff I mostly do with fixed rings.
[1699.84] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: I love long-range flying and just testing out what's possible.
[1706.0] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: Where are the actual limits?
[1708.56] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: My furthest distance for long-range flights so far was 32 kilometers.
[1713.36] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: And I just had to turn around because...
[1718.0] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: Okay, you will laugh now because our ceiling issues.
[1723.84] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: But that was not our ninth fault.
[1726.08] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: That was because I really completely messed up the internal installation.
[1729.76] Stephen: I have basically put the...
[1731.84] Stephen: Sorry, I was going to say, what's the total flight distance you're doing on these flights?
[1735.36] Stephen: I can see their home distance, but how many kilometers are you doing?
[1740.64] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: On this flight, I have no idea.
[1742.88] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: But usually when I do a long-range flight with the Italian GT,
[1746.48] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: that blind flight was, I think, 79 kilometers total.
[1752.24] Stephen: Wow.
[1753.2] Stephen: That's impressive.
[1754.16] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: I remember correctly.
[1755.2] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: Yeah, I think it was 79.
[1759.44] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: Just recently, I did the first endurance test with my XUIV clouds.
[1764.96] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: That was 64 minutes.
[1767.04] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: After that, I got too cold and bored and I landed.
[1771.12] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: And I think it managed to get 80 kilometers or something with just a third of the battery.
[1778.8] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: Wow.
[1780.16] Stephen: Wow.
[1781.92] Stephen: That's built for autonomous flight then because you can't maintain focus in FPV for that time.
[1787.2] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: Yeah, especially not with the Grogers on the whole time.
[1790.0] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: This is a three-hour flight plane, so yeah.
[1794.56] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: You usually do that in autonomous modes.
[1796.56] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: Often when I fly long-range without waypoint missions,
[1799.52] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: I just put it into 3D cruise mode, just send it into a heading,
[1804.4] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: and then sometimes I take away the Grogers, just relax a little bit,
[1807.52] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: then watch, okay, everything is fine.
[1809.6] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: I have my telemetry on the radio.
[1811.12] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: I see what the plane is doing if it keeps altitude.
[1814.08] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: So this is the easiest way then.
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[1833.52] Frank: Consider joining them and you'll also get other online benefits.
[1836.96] Frank: Find out more at patreon.com forward slash let's drone out.
[1841.92] Stephen: But yeah, some impressive distance records you've managed to achieve here.
[1845.36] Stephen: Just absolutely fantastic and taking quite a gamble on things like the 2G module.
[1850.0] Stephen: There's no really great way to field test it other than just put it in a wing and send it.
[1855.36] Stephen: So kudos, you know, very impressive.
[1860.4] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: In the meantime, or nowadays, we have stuff to test it actually without going to the field.
[1866.16] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: And I think that's maybe a good point where we could transition to the new INF6 stuff.
[1873.2] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: Because there we have a nice feature where we actually can
[1876.8] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: test stuff on the bench like we would do in flight without risking anything.
[1881.6] Stephen: The possibility to test your interesting software configuration without trashing
[1887.84] Stephen: hundreds of choose your denomination of wing and hardware.
[1892.56] Stephen: Fascinating.
[1893.68] Stephen: Yeah, exactly.
[1896.4] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: So yeah, I think then we should start with that point.
[1901.28] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: INF6 will get a new feature or has a new feature that is called HITL simulation.
[1909.2] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: So you have a complete hardware in the loop simulation.
[1912.16] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: That's why I showed you this F765 was just a receiver connected before.
[1917.36] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: What you can do with that is you connect the flight controller via USB with your PC.
[1922.48] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: And then you start the X-plane flight simulator.
[1925.52] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: It's a really physical simulated flight simulator with a specific specifically for that purpose
[1932.24] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: designed plane, basically a virtual RC plane as a plugin.
[1938.16] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: And as soon as you start or you load the word with that plane,
[1944.08] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: it will give you a message to connect to a flight controller that's connected to the PC.
[1948.96] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: And what's happening here is that the X-plane completely simulates the real airplane while
[1955.44] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: the flight controller is doing the calculations and all the stuff it can do.
[1959.92] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: Including GPS, position, everything.
[1962.96] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: Wow.
[1963.76] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: Everything. GPS, position, compass, heading, even the physics assimilate like G forces.
[1971.36] Stephen: You can tell X-plane to give you a side wind and you can make sure that your plane can fly
[1975.84] Stephen: okay with the side wind. That's incredible.
[1978.88] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: Exactly. So for the flight controller, it controls a real RC plane.
[1984.48] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: There's no difference. I can even use INF radar, for example,
[1989.12] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: put, have someone else with X-plane on the same area or the second PC also with X-plane,
[1997.52] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: also with the flight controller, also with INF radar.
[2000.48] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: And even that would work with each other.
[2002.56] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: And you could see the other plane on your OSD in the flight simulator.
[2006.88] Stephen: What's the interface that it uses?
[2008.8] Stephen: Because presumably you've got to feed it gyro data, accelerometer data, GPS, everything.
[2013.84] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: Yeah. This all runs over the MSP protocol.
[2017.68] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: And there's basically code in INF that accepts the simulated data
[2025.2] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: and basically bypasses the IMU and all these sensors.
[2029.28] Stephen: It just takes over the sensor and bypasses the ESCs.
[2033.44] Stephen: Or does it bypass the output too?
[2037.28] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: It also bypasses the outputs. So all outputs are disabled.
[2041.2] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: And unfortunately in X-plane, we cannot simulate server movements.
[2046.16] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: So X-plane just gets pitch, roll, yaw inputs and throttle inputs from the flight controller back.
[2052.4] Stephen: So the issue, the mixer still works on the flight controller.
[2056.32] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: The mixer doesn't even matter. You can set up,
[2058.8] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: I think you need at least a pitch, roll, yaw mix set up,
[2063.2] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: but it doesn't matter what server you set it to.
[2065.52] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: It just has to be there. So the controls are sent to X-plane.
[2070.4] Stephen: So it takes the RC controls.
[2075.76] Stephen: It doesn't take the mixed controls to the servers and motors.
[2080.88] Curry: Yeah, exactly.
[2082.16] Curry: Okay.
[2082.56] Curry: So you can basically set up your plane and check even on a non-development basis.
[2089.12] Curry: If you're thinking about setting up your radio, you could put all your modes on.
[2093.2] Curry: You could check, is auto launch going to end?
[2096.08] Curry: What happens if I press this? Is my return to home on the right switch?
[2099.84] Curry: That sort of thing.
[2100.64] Curry: Oh, that sounds pretty cool.
[2102.56] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: Exactly. You can use it for that.
[2104.56] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: Yeah, I even used it. I was just for fun planning a long range mission, a one-way trip mission
[2112.48] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: over a very big distance. And I run that mission just in X-plane first
[2117.44] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: to just see if I have ground clearance everywhere.
[2120.0] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: So I don't mess up the waypoints.
[2122.32] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: So I load the mission into the flight controller, run it on X-plane, everything is fine.
[2127.28] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: And then I know if I use the same mission file loaded on my real plane, it will work exactly the same.
[2132.16] Curry: So X-plane takes real Google Earth or Google Map data, does it?
[2136.4] Curry: So you know all your height maps and stuff?
[2142.0] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: It is based on the real world. It's not with an online connection.
[2146.88] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: So the roads are stored offline, basically a classic old flight simulator.
[2151.52] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: It's not like Microsoft Flight Simulator that uses real-time satellite imaging.
[2155.6] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: So it doesn't have the detail level of Flight Simulator 2020, for example.
[2161.6] Curry: Okay, so you don't get fake buildings appearing, but you've still got basically your height maps.
[2167.12] Curry: You know if you're flying and there's a mountain in the way, you're going to hit it unless you go
[2171.44] Curry: up, for example, and you can try out your flight plans and adjust them. And then when you go and do
[2177.12] Curry: it in real life, you've already done it like half a dozen times. You know you're good.
[2180.24] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: Yeah, you also see virtual power lines in the plane because they created this simulated world
[2189.52] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: based on real satellite data. Just narrowed it down in low resolution stuff so it doesn't
[2195.36] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: blow up your SSD. And a lot of things, I would say everything that was in the real world
[2202.72] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: five, six, seven years ago, that's maybe the date of these map information will be in the simulator
[2208.88] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: as well. So yeah, that's one of the cool features of INAF 6. And as Darren just said in the chat,
[2217.04] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: it really is a very crucial tool now for the INAF development. And that's also where we come to the
[2224.64] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: other features that will come now. A lot of that stuff was just tested in the simulator first and
[2229.84] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: then compared to the real world. And it's so close to realistic if you compare it, especially the
[2236.24] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: navigation system changes we made. It's an interesting unit test. Yeah, exactly. There's,
[2244.4] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: for example, a new feature. Let me share my screen again quickly.
[2250.8] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: Fixturing waypoint cross tracking and turn smoothing. What it basically does is for waypoint
[2257.6] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: missions, you come from that direction from a previous waypoint. Here's your current waypoint
[2262.96] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: and in that direction, there's the new waypoint. What INAF can do now is it can plan the turns
[2269.84] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: ahead instead of just hitting it and then looking for the next one. So one, there are two methods
[2276.4] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: you can set up. One is that the waypoint will be flown on the outside of the actual waypoint.
[2284.16] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: This is an old variant here, so it was changed a bit later. Or you can just cut the corner on
[2290.24] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: the inside. This is just stuff where you change the navigation system when it really helps to
[2295.92] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: simulate that first. Because sometimes you make a change, then you need to test it. You have to
[2300.72] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: drive out. You have to go to the field. You have to set up everything up. You have to fly. You test
[2305.28] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: it. Then you know if it doesn't work as expected, was it maybe a plane issue? Was it the wind? Was
[2312.48] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: it something else? No, you just flash it to the flight controller, test it in the simulator. Now,
[2317.36] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: it's not working. Okay, then another change. It's so much easier to do things like that with
[2322.0] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: this feature. Basically, this is, by the way, this change how it works now.
[2330.8] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: INAF is able to navigate on the actual waypoint track instead of just pointing at the waypoint
[2338.48] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: and plan smooth turns. Of course, it will not do really smooth turns if the angles are that
[2345.76] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: tight as here. But if you have angles like this, it will go on the outside, for example,
[2350.4] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: then back on the path track. On the outside, back on the track. The same accounts for the cut
[2356.48] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: method that just makes nice smooth turns on the inside and exactly follows the track. This was
[2362.72] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: even with the wind enabled in the simulator. It's pretty cool. This is basically also the way
[2369.12] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: autopilot can navigate and now INAF can do. Is INAF trying to become autopilot or is it trying
[2376.0] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: to seek some identity that is different to autopilot here? I think the biggest difference
[2382.8] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: still is and that will hopefully ever be the difference.
[2387.44] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: INAF flies different. INAF just feels different on the sticks. You can compare it. If you fly
[2399.84] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: autopilot, autopilot feels if you fly in acro mode, for example, feels like a video game. It doesn't
[2406.72] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: matter. You can go full throttle. You move the stick at a certain range. The plane does exactly
[2411.76] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: the same movement like with low throttle and lower speeds. It's way more consistent.
[2421.44] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: I think it's less nice to fly with autopilot, especially in acrobatic things or you do proximity
[2429.92] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: stuff. You fly through gaps. It doesn't matter if it's a quad or a fixed ring. You don't just
[2434.72] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: have that flight feel with autopilot like you have with other flight controllers. INAF tries to
[2441.6] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: fly fixed rings the way you would fly without a flight controller in it if you are in acro mode,
[2448.32] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: for example. It just assists you a little bit with the pit controller, but mostly it's the
[2453.04] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: same control scheme like with no flight controller at all. That's mostly the big difference. Of
[2459.92] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: course, autopilot has so many more features for safety stuff. They have their possibility to get
[2467.36] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: their stuff certified for industry use, for safety applications, all this kind of stuff.
[2475.04] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: INAF is never intended to do things like that.
[2478.72] Curry: You think, autopilot, you have to say the word over-engineered at some point, don't you?
[2483.28] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: There's a lot to it.
[2488.0] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: They really concentrate on their feature set, on their reliability, on their position,
[2494.4] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: especially for navigation stuff, less on the usability, I would say. Just the configurator
[2501.6] Curry: proves that. Yes, indeed. Since we've got you here, would you like to try and diagnose my launching?
[2510.16] Curry: Last week, I can't remember, it was bloody cold and I went out to try and retest.
[2517.36] Curry: I can't find it out. Could you feel your fingers because I think we might have figured out what
[2520.72] Curry: the problem is? Yes, it could be that. I had a successful launch the first time, and then I
[2527.52] Curry: completely lost my video signal, which is a problem. I'll show you what that looked like.
[2534.72] Curry: Here's number one launch. We're auto-launching. I get on the sticks pretty quickly because
[2542.32] Curry: usually I launch with goggles, but in this case, launch line of sight, put my goggles on, and I
[2546.8] Curry: said, oh, this is looking a bit crap on the VTX, and then the signal went completely because as it
[2553.52] Curry: turned out, my MFCX adapter had fallen out, and then I was left with that. Oh, that could
[2561.2] Curry: occur in the GoPro recently for me. Yes, here's my other two launches. What? We go upside down
[2567.92] Curry: and we land on the nose. See, Jack? Sticky Jack's Gloom Emporium. The world needs it.
[2575.12] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: That's what we need. I think I know why. Can you go back? There's one. Yeah, I know why. Go on then.
[2584.56] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: Because you bumped the sticks when you threw it. It went directly after it left your hand
[2590.64] Curry: out of auto-launch into Horizon mode. Well, I thought that on the first one, if I bring that
[2596.64] Curry: back, I can get it on the first one because I see it go from angle and it goes to Horizon. But in
[2602.88] Curry: the second one, how do we play this slower? See if we can do it. We're doing the throw, and it's
[2610.56] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: still an angle, and it's in Horizon now. Now it's out of angle. It's way too fast. It's way too
[2618.16] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: fast. It went out of auto-launch. Also, on your first launch when you launched it and then have
[2629.04] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: taken over, if auto-launch is set up correctly, you don't have to take over. You just throw it,
[2634.08] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: then you turn around and you go to your chair. I'm so used to doing it. Because I wear glasses.
[2640.32] Curry: Normally, I launch with my goggles on, so I'm launching blind. You know the thing. Arm,
[2645.76] Curry: throttle in the mouth, up, throw, get back on the sticks immediately and sort it out. But I haven't
[2652.0] Curry: got the grips with letting INF take over stuff very well. There's a feature in the auto-launch
[2659.04] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: settings where you can force you to do the right thing. This is minimum launch time you can set.
[2666.48] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: I set that on all my planes in two seconds. After the launch is triggered, for two seconds,
[2672.16] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: every stick input on the radio is ignored by enough. That's interesting. You cannot accidentally
[2678.8] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: bump the radio and abort the launch procedure. Right, and that one down. Also, it was cold,
[2684.16] Curry: and I'm probably shivering. I'm doing that. I think that would cause the gimbals to move.
[2689.6] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: Then some people like very loose gimbals, especially quad pilots like that. Then it just
[2695.44] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: sometimes is enough to shake the radio when you launch it, and that aborts the auto-launch and
[2701.52] Curry: the plane lands in the door. It is interesting leaving it completely to the auto. Even back in
[2708.16] Curry: the olden days, when I remember the My Fly Dream autopilot was being used. That had an auto-launch.
[2714.96] Curry: There was a challenge we set up with two of my friends. They had to auto-launch their planes.
[2719.68] Curry: They leave their radios on the thing. They go and throw them, and whoever could walk back the
[2724.88] Curry: coolest without looking at their plane was the winner. Even though they were in competition and
[2729.6] Curry: being filmed, one of them broke into a run instantly and grabbed his radio, because it's
[2734.32] Stephen: a hard thing to let go of that. With auto-launch, if any of the sticks move at all,
[2739.36] Stephen: it breaks out of auto-launch. There's not a threshold. As soon as the stick registers to
[2743.92] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: change. Well, that's what this time thing is. I think there is a threshold. I think
[2752.0] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: Darren might know it better. It's 20% deflection in each direction.
[2756.88] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: 15% or 20% is the new default threshold. If you do the auto-launch, one second, let me...
[2765.92] Stephen: Caroline's got the way to do it. You just toughen up. Just leave the TX on the chair.
[2772.88] Curry: What I could do is not just leave the TX on the chair. I could hold both wings and do the
[2779.36] Curry: over-the-head launch. That's proper commitment then, isn't it? Also, it's a better launch,
[2784.56] Curry: because you're not doing a side throw. Yeah, it's good for your back, straight short. You're
[2789.2] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: going to get all cramped up and you're flying. I'm not sure if you have seen that video.
[2794.72] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: I made that video, how to basically launch a data ring, because data rings are harder to
[2800.72] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: launch than a normal LC plane. As you can see here, I go for the throw. Okay, first I explain
[2809.04] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: a few things. Like a trained athlete. Look at them. Lining up the throw. Then it just goes away.
[2818.48] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: If the plane is tuned well, the PIDFF controller or just the auto-tune is completely fine,
[2824.88] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: and auto-launch is set up properly, there's nothing more you have to do, basically.
[2830.0] Stephen: There's the over-the-head. Going for the big... Oh, yeah. The big hurl.
[2834.96] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: I'm going to give it a month. Yeah, this is basically my explanation part already.
[2842.24] Curry: This is the to the moon maneuver. Yeah, this wing's always been a pain. It's the flux wing,
[2848.8] Curry: made by... I can't remember who makes it, but it's very, very narrow wings, and it takes a little
[2854.0] Curry: while to get going, so it needs a hefty throw. The flyboard flux? Yeah. Yeah, a friend of mine
[2860.96] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: has that, and even that ring we usually launch overhead. Yeah. Although it's so small, but
[2866.88] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: because you have so much... The weight distribution is weird, because the wings are very, very light,
[2873.2] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: but that carbon frame in the center is so heavy, it's very hard to throw it with a side toss without
[2878.96] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: spinning it, actually. That's why we usually throw it either overhead or just grab it with one hand
[2884.88] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: and then at the nose and just put it over the head with one hand. Yeah, I think I'm going to go with
[2890.16] Curry: overhead stuff. I don't have a problem with foam wings thrown with one hand and just sitting back
[2895.2] Curry: and watching it go in the air. It's just these, the flybot ones, they are weird, but they're quite
[2900.88] Curry: quick. So I wanted to get a wing for wing racing next year, because I promised I would do some wing
[2904.64] Curry: racing, and I thought it's quite fast. So that might do it. Slightly unhelpful tip from Jojo.
[2909.68] Curry: Because after I threw it in the mud three times, it stopped working, because it was like, oh, my
[2915.28] Curry: VTX is full of water right now, and I don't work anymore. So I had to stop there and go home.
[2921.36] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: Yeah, that comment from Jojo is interesting. I think he refers to... Was it Adam G? Or...
[2931.68] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: I think it was Adam G who built his big track, and he launched it for the... I think it was the
[2937.44] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: first time. And then he was looking for the plane, walking back to his transmitter and stepped on the
[2943.6] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: radio. And this aborted the launch, and in the time he needed to pick it up, the plane went full
[2949.84] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: throttle down into a fence and was... I'm looking for that video right now. Damn it. I'm literally
[2959.28] Jack: looking for it as we speak. It's like, oh, man. Who was it again? Adam G. Yeah, Adam G. Yeah. What
[2968.08] Jack: was it? I thought it was the drag, wasn't it? Adam G. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a serious drag.
[2973.04] Stephen: Yeah, yeah. Very expensive to grind.
[2975.12] Stephen: And people wonder why I haven't been in a rush to build these wings, like with a quad like,
[2979.84] Stephen: how do you launch a quad? Well, I plug the battery in, I leave it next to my foot,
[2984.4] Stephen: and I just whammy the throttle hard enough that it isn't on the ground anymore. That's it.
[2989.84] Stephen: The biggest problem with a quad is launching too gently and doing that embarrassing sort of forward
[2995.76] Stephen: tip and then chewing up the grass and just getting stuck upside down.
[3001.12] Curry: That slightly reminds me of my friend with the power line video, Jack, where he was flying around
[3007.76] Curry: and then his transmitter battery ran out and he thought, not a problem. I'll put it into
[3013.6] Curry: circle mode or whatever, and I'll just change my batteries. And he took the batteries out and this
[3020.0] Curry: thing's fail safe wasn't set up right. So he's like, oh, you mean continue on my path? And off it went.
[3025.52] Curry: And he couldn't get the batteries back in quickly enough to get it back.
[3028.64] Curry: Am I allowed to play that video?
[3030.72] Curry: Yeah, play the play the video. Somehow it went on for like seven miles
[3035.04] Curry: and went through the middle of power lines without touching any. Have you got it there, Jack?
[3041.36] Stephen: We featured this as our Halloween clip a couple of years ago.
[3044.56] Stephen: We did.
[3044.96] Stephen: Oh, Mark, have you done this as well? Was it your clip?
[3048.56] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: I didn't know it was not my clip, but I did the same and it was 14 kilometers. It flew
[3054.08] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: until it crashed because of that battery and I found it back. Well, I got it back three months
[3059.44] Stephen: later. Oh, you got it back at all. It's a mighty miracle there.
[3063.52] Jack: All right, ready? I've got it. I don't know what the sound's going to be like.
[3070.08] Jack: But I don't think we'll necessarily need sound, but yeah, here we are.
[3073.36] Curry: The sound is fantastic because you can hear the sound of electricity.
[3079.6] Stephen: Everything's normal. Everything's fine.
[3082.0] Stephen: Jesus.
[3085.38] Stephen: Nothing wrong here. It's all fine.
[3087.7] Curry: Yeah, somehow after after seven miles and the battery being out, this thing
[3094.9] Curry: calmly glided down and it's fly by wire one way and did a perfect land better landing than
[3101.62] Curry: we would have had at the field. I'm assuming. This is really crazy.
[3108.1] Jack: That is one of the most scariest things. That makes my penis want to crawl up inside myself.
[3117.38] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: That was, by the way, also when I was completely fresh in the hobby and I built my first AR ring,
[3122.9] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: I just finished basically the setup and the tuning as far as my knowledge was back then.
[3128.82] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: That's basically an altitude. That was it. And I wanted to test waypoint missions,
[3136.58] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: but my fly sky radio has so short distance or so short range that I thought, hey,
[3143.54] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: what would happen if I disable the face safe and say do nothing? And then I went out,
[3151.94] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: flew the waypoint mission. It wasn't anything bad first. I flew the waypoint mission,
[3157.62] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: but every time I turned off the radio, the good thing is with these fly sky radios, they are
[3161.86] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: back on in two seconds, not like half a minute until OpenGL has booted. So I turned off the radio
[3170.42] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: and then, okay, the plane went out of waypoint mode back into Acro. So it was slowly going down
[3178.66] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: and I turned it back on, cashed it and said, okay, it's not working. Then instead, let's test how
[3184.42] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: long the battery lasts. I went into 3D cruise mode and I flew around in cruise mode and then
[3191.22] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: suddenly I went behind a few trees and lost connections. You see that? Nailed it.
[3206.82] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: You see the cringe in his shoulders and you hear the impact. I think you hear the impact in the
[3211.94] Stephen: video. See that again. Watch it. He's absolutely got control of the situation. There he is. He
[3216.5] Stephen: knows exactly. No, he doesn't know anything. He's destroyed it. There's even time for him to go
[3221.54] Curry: like this and put his hands on his head like, what have I done? Just before the plane goes in.
[3229.78] Adam G: Oops. This became more on those trees than it did on doing a good throw.
[3235.54] Jack: So he heard the arm. Interesting foot throw at all methods.
[3241.38] Adam G: At this moment, what's going through my mind is that wasn't a very good throw.
[3244.98] Adam G: Quickly, let's get back to the transmitter and it was my biggest mistake. Like a clumsy idiot,
[3251.3] Adam G: I won't step on the transmitter and I kicked the elevator stick and therefore cancelled auto launch.
[3258.34] Adam G: You can see at this point, it's actually a good angle of attack and it would have recovered if
[3261.86] Adam G: I hadn't kicked the transmitter, but you'll see in a second, the drastic change in angle.
[3269.46] Stephen: I think the important thing is he saved money by not spending three quid on the next strap.
[3274.34] Adam G: Once I finally got the transmitter in my hands, I'm looking up and I'm actually expecting it to
[3278.34] Adam G: be above the tree somewhere and wondering why I can't see it. Just remember that all of this
[3283.54] Adam G: happens within the space of three or four seconds. At this point, there's not really much I can do.
[3288.26] Adam G: I dropped the throttle when I see where it is, but within a split second, it's already hit the fence.
[3298.4] Adam G: And then here's that same incident again from the DVR recording. And at the very last frame
[3305.49] Adam G: that you see here, before it completely cuts out, you can feel it's doing 142 kilometers an hour on
[3310.61] Adam G: impact. It's just over 88 miles per hour. So here are a few pictures of the incident.
[3317.49] Adam G: As you can see, the nose has snapped clean off, but it's not that bad considering what happened.
[3323.73] Adam G: I think if it had been any of a plane, it would have been absolutely.
[3328.85] Jack: Adam G, legend. Next strap.
[3335.25] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: I was on a hobby ring race event with my first AR ring back then. And I have seen an S800 split in
[3344.93] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: half by one of the wires that held these big inflatable gates up.
[3349.97] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: Well, the guide wire.
[3350.93] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: He hit the wire. Yeah, these guide wires that hold the gates vertical. And he hit that wire
[3357.81] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: at around 100 kilometers per hour. It was one plane coming in, two planes coming out.
[3363.17] Jack: No way.
[3364.77] Jack: That's going to be amazing to see.
[3366.37] Jack: That would have been amazing on video. Film everything, no matter how mundane you think it is.
[3372.93] Jack: Just in case.
[3373.89] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: I have it on video, but I can't remember the title right now to look for it.
[3380.21] Stephen: That's very impressive.
[3382.29] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: So, yeah. Want to get back to a few of the new INAF stuff?
[3387.33] Stephen: Yeah, yeah.
[3389.97] Stephen: So about to drop version six, right? So it's all new.
[3395.49] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: Yeah, absolutely. So we talked about the navigation stuff, waypoint stuff with smoother
[3401.65] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: path tracking, all that stuff. And the biggest improvement in 6.0 is the
[3408.37] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: so-called AHRS centrifugal force compensation. The AHRS is the attitude heading reference system.
[3415.97] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: That's basically the code in the flight controller that INAF has, better flight has,
[3421.17] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: autopilot has, every flight controller has to use the sensor data and calculate how the current
[3429.81] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: attitude of the craft is relative to the ground and relative to the earth, basically.
[3434.61] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: And the biggest problem of nearly all flight controllers, not only INAF, also others like
[3442.61] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: better flight, I've even seen it on Vector, is so-called horizon drift. And that's basically
[3450.37] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: just as an explanation for the viewers. That's basically if you make turns,
[3457.17] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: or if you change direction or change speed, you have G forces in use.
[3461.09] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: And the flight controller or the IMU cannot distinguish between the gravity and these G
[3466.61] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: forces. And if these G forces go to any side direction or to the front or to the back,
[3473.65] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: the accelerometer thinks, in quotes, that this is the actual gravity direction and
[3482.13] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: realigns the artificial horizon to that new gravity vector. And this is called horizon drift.
[3488.53] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: And if you fly in any navigation mode on any flight mode that works with self-leveling,
[3494.77] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: this self-leveling is aligned to that now tilted horizon. And this was especially on INAF,
[3501.81] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: a very big problem in the past, because the way the INAF AHRS worked was it was too much relying
[3510.21] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: on the accelerometer. This was mitigated in INAF 2.4 or 2.5 to reduce the drift, but it was never
[3519.41] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: completely resolved. But finally, there was one developer who came from Japan who said, okay,
[3530.77] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: let's go on that issue. And he is the one who understands the code of INAF well enough,
[3537.97] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: especially the IMU code, the sensor code. He understands the math behind this algorithm that
[3545.25] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: is needed. And he had the coding skills to completely fix that by using the GPS data
[3553.41] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: to estimate how much G force is currently applied to the plane or to the quad while doing a turn.
[3560.53] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: And with knowing that how much G force and in which direction these G forces are applied to the
[3567.33] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: craft, he can remove these from the calculations of the gravity vector. So the craft now always
[3573.33] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: knows where the ground is, where down is, and we have no horizon drift anymore. So this is why if
[3579.33] Stephen: you put the horizon lines up in beta flight or other quad firmware, and you do lots of aggressive
[3584.37] Stephen: acro moves, it takes a while for them to catch up. They sort of flutter around and go crazy,
[3589.33] Stephen: and then they settle down. And INAF, if you're on a very long bank turn, it would lose track of
[3595.01] Stephen: where down was because it would just start to normalize down as being the direction that you
[3600.45] Stephen: weren't accelerating in. And it would kind of put down away from the direction you're turning.
[3607.97] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: Exactly. We had actually two approaches from two independent developers, they started that project
[3613.89] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: at the same time. The other approach was to just get the code from autopilot, what they do,
[3620.85] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: and completely port it over to INAF. And that was a lot of work. But there were a few remaining
[3627.57] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: issues this developer unfortunately could not resolve. So it was perfectly fine in navigation
[3633.33] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: modes. But as soon as you had strong winds, that changes your ground speed depending on the
[3639.01] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: direction very strongly. Or if you fly aerobatics like loopings or a lot of rolls, then the AHRS was
[3649.17] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: completely confused. And it was just not working as well as we hoped for. So the second approach
[3655.97] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: that was using the old INAF AHRS and just update that one with the needed math program from ground
[3663.81] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: up, that was the way to go. And this is how it's done and implemented now in INAF 6. And that's
[3670.21] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: also the reason why the INAF 6 feature preview one was released because INAF 6 was delayed to March.
[3678.45] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: Usually it would have been released in December, but it was delayed to March because of a lot of
[3684.69] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: other features that were not ready yet. And Pavel, Darren, and I, we decided, hey, we need to test
[3693.57] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: that thoroughly. So we made that feature preview release mostly just because we want to see this
[3700.85] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: AHRS flown in the field, tested, and looked for the reliability and stability. So it's the headline
[3708.61] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: feature for version 6 then to solve this. Yeah, absolutely. Okay. Yeah. That's why the INAF 6
[3715.57] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: nickname is Horizon Hawk. Got it. So yeah. And there are also a ton of smaller features
[3725.33] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: coming, maybe not implemented yet. For example, one nice thing for very big craft is this would
[3731.89] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: also have helped Adam G for his launch. A nice little feature that Darren programmed after my
[3739.25] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: idea was it's wiggle to wake launch idle. So what you basically do, if you have auto launch set up
[3747.89] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: and you have idle throttle also set up where the motor already spins before you throw the plane,
[3754.85] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: you can trigger the idle throttle by wiggling the tail of the plane.
[3760.05] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: You basically do a yaw movement left, right, I think two times left, right, left, right.
[3765.57] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: So you grab it and just do that and then throw it.
[3768.29] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: Exactly. And this will trigger the idle throttle. So then the motors will spin up and then you can
[3773.01] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: just throw it. There was a feature with a timed idle before where you can set up, I think up to
[3779.89] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: 60 seconds delay after you throttle up the timer runs. And then after the set time, the idle
[3785.97] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: throttle starts, but that's had, that has some downside. For example, when I, when I launched my
[3791.33] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: big, uh, X UIV clouds, it's a 1.9 meter plane. That's a four and a half kilos. And if it goes
[3799.57] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: to aisle, the aisle is just 50%, but this plane makes already four to four and a half kilogram
[3805.81] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: of thrust when it's just an idle throttle. So I have it like here and then I realized, oh, I
[3811.57] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: forgot to turn on the HD camera. Yeah, you cannot abort it because the timer is running. And, uh,
[3817.97] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: in the last three seconds or so, the beep changes. But if you, if you want to abort it, it takes me
[3824.45] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: longer than three seconds to put the plane back down and cut the throttle. So I had to launch.
[3829.49] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: And with that new feature, I can say, okay, I throttle up and I can take all my time, pick the
[3835.09] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: plane up, hold it in position, wiggle the tail two times, and then motors pull up and I can throw.
[3841.57] Stephen: Can you wiggle it again to start? If you wiggle the tail and they'll be like, oh no, turn on the
[3845.89] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: GoPro. Nah, then it's too late. As soon as I'll throttle kicks in, uh, and you don't have the radio
[3853.41] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: in your hand, uh, you have to launch. You really need neck straps. I mean, I think a lot of these
[3858.93] Stephen: problems are solved for neck straps. I don't know. Neck straps are not always flexible, but get a nice
[3864.37] Curry: comfortable neck strap. When you're using both hands and you've got a neck strap, you, you risk
[3869.33] Curry: that moving because launching a plane can be quite physical. And if that, one of those gimbals
[3874.45] Curry: then gets moved, you're, you're in Adam G situation where you're flying a plane and it's just going
[3879.57] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: out of control before you can get back on it. Radio on your stomach, you throw the plane, oops,
[3885.09] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: on the, and that was the arm switch, for example. So you disarmed by accident, you mean? Yeah.
[3891.49] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: Yeah. You could disarm by accident. If the radio turns around on your, on your belly and you hit,
[3898.05] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: any switch and also the last neck strap I used. And that was when I stopped using them, uh,
[3904.53] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: basically killed my radio because the loop, uh, opened up and the radio fell down on the street.
[3912.45] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: Funny enough, it was the FRS guy next trap. Maybe that was the reason.
[3919.97] Marc "b14ckyy" Hoffmann: Yeah. I used an FRS guy neck strap on my TX 16 radio. So that wasn't good. Yeah.
[3925.33] Jack: Guys, uh, that is all we've got time for. You've been listening to let show now, uh, the show is,
[3932.69] Jack: uh, sponsored by our lovely Patreons. Thank you guys so much for everything you do. You guys rule,
[3939.49] Jack: uh, it keeps the show going. Uh, you've been enjoyed by Mark from the INF. Thanks for letting
[3945.73] Jack: me be here. Thank you. You've been a great guest. Really appreciate it. It's a really good insight.
[3953.49] Jack: I've really enjoyed tonight. The time just flew by. We'll have to try and catch up with the INF
[3958.69] Stephen: crew once version six drops and we can tell exactly what made it into version six and what
[3963.57] Stephen: didn't and what's going to be queued up for the next release as well. So we'll catch up with this.
[3967.57] Jack: It sounds exciting. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You joined by everyone's favorite curry kitten.
[3974.05] Jack: Goodbye. The man with my staff, Steven. Thanks very much. Good night. I'm hoping bright until
[3979.97] Jack: I fly and you'll be listed to let drone out. Tune in live, uh, 8 p.m. UK time every Thursday
[3986.21] Jack: to watch us on YouTube. If not, listen to us on SoundCloud Stitcher, uh, Apple podcasts.
[3994.45] Jack: Wherever you get your podcasts, it'll be there. What's that one that your daughter was horrified
[4000.29] Curry: that we were on Spotify. She said you can't be on there. That's only proper stuff. And when we
[4004.61] Jack: were there, it sort of devalued it a little bit for her. She just crunched up her phone,
[4010.61] Jack: stuck it in the blender and flushed it down. Thank you. Good night. Good night. Good night.