=== Let's Drone Out — Episode 392 ===
Title: LDO 392 - Rating FPV Manufacturers Vol II
Recorded: 2023-03-02
Hosts: Stephen "Belrik" Howell, Jack "Brightontillifly" Nash, Koel "Koala" Anderson, Wayne "CurryKitten" Andrews, Andrew "Frank" Hyams
Guest(s): (none recorded)
Total audience: 1,557
Platforms: YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJcxgJyhtnY); SoundCloud (http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/feeds.soundcloud.com/stream/1461363679-letsdroneout-ldo-392-rating-fpv-manufacturers-vol-ii.mp3)
=====================================

LEGAL NOTICE: Any views expressed by any guests on this show are personal and may not reflect the views of the hosts, any participant of the show.

[0.0] Jack: Hello, and you're listening to what drone out and special thank you to our lovely patrons that help donate
[7.48] Jack: So that we could pay the editor to remove the swear words and silly things. We say
[12.56] Jack: massive. Thank you to
[14.32] Jack: Carlos campus art folk now Sam Dharma on with the show
[51.54] Jack: Hello and
[53.78] Jack: Welcome to another episode of lecture and out tonight. We are joined by
[58.62] Jack: Everyone's favorite curry kitten. Hello. Everyone's favorite and favorite moustache Steven. Hello. Welcome a slightly sick, but
[67.74] Jack: Always a pleasure to have on coal. Howdy and I'm bright to life lie
[73.42] Jack: we are returning back to
[77.78] Jack: Reviewing FPV companies or FPV products of manufacturers
[83.62] Jack: The the legal notice is any views expressed by any of the guests on the show or personal or may not reflect the views of others
[93.22] Jack: Don't forget this is all subject
[95.86] Jack: Everyone's had their own experiences if you don't agree with this or you're questioning whether you know
[102.5] Jack: The products are any good go out give them a try. See what you think other us ask other people we may be wrong
[110.9] Curry: And it's it's fair to say people's mileage does vary whenever I do a negative review or a positive review
[116.98] Curry: I do get comments saying I had the opposite experience. So it just goes to depend
[122.74] Stephen: On what you're gonna spend all your time telling people on the internet that they're wrong. Life is too short
[129.38] Stephen: Give it a try
[131.3] Stephen: Okay with that being said is Jack ready to throw up a screen share there
[137.06] Stephen: We can dive back into where we were last week and for anyone who missed that
[141.62] Stephen: Last week was a chart where we had a bunch of brands and we were deciding
[147.22] Stephen: Kind of where they ranked
[149.7] Stephen: Some came off better than others. There are a few surprises in there battles were fought. I got rid of the ds
[159.14] Jack: Level because I thought he's better and we kept saying
[167.94] Jack: We we kept saying that term
[171.3] Jack: way too much and it was
[174.82] Jack: It was getting somewhat painful. So at the moment we've got acorn
[180.98] Jack: acorn electronics
[183.14] Koel: Who are they? Yeah, no comment. I have no no idea
[187.78] Koel: unknown for me
[189.46] Stephen: Who knows about them in the discord acorn? You haven't heard of acorn
[193.22] Curry: Is nothing no i've heard of acorns which grow on trees. I remember those but acorn. No, what can I send this?
[200.34] Stephen: Really?
[201.22] Stephen: That they're huge. They're
[203.22] Stephen: They're one of the few people that actually makes their own electronics and they do
[206.9] Curry: Maybe this is the problem. They make the electronics and other people what batch them or what? I don't know
[213.22] Curry: Yeah
[214.82] Stephen: They've been around they're like one of the first people that did bill heli 32 escs
[220.26] Koel: Is not the guy that's saying smack that all on the floor smack that wasn't it worth
[226.34] Jack: Wasn't it that the company was it worth?
[229.14] Jack: But did they make?
[231.62] Jack: I'm sure they made worth it 32-bit escs and they done the whole
[236.9] Jack: um led malarkey, you know RGB led
[241.62] Jack: whatever and
[244.58] Stephen: Really when before people had four and ones they were like doing really early bill heli 32 stuff
[251.62] Stephen: They were famous for it
[253.46] Jack: Yeah, they do a lot of flight controllers
[256.5] Jack: The trouble is i was familiar with it because they were
[260.18] Jack: They they were um
[263.62] Stephen: Uh, i've sent you those logos by the way, but I did it in jax crash. So i was just gonna say your email
[272.78] Stephen: Okay, so acorn are a famous brand. They're like
[275.66] Curry: Up there with they just did escs. I I could say oh, maybe that's what I heard of them
[280.94] Curry: Haven't heard of them. I don't do enough builds. But if you're saying flight controllers as well
[285.34] Curry: I'm just premium. Oh here like
[287.9] Stephen: They're they're in the kind of hundred pound flight controller sort of premium. Yeah, that's too premium for me
[298.82] Curry: Yeah
[299.78] Curry: Well, it's it's all unknown for me and cole but if you guys have used them, what's what's your opinion are they worth the money?
[306.18] Jack: I haven't used them
[308.18] Stephen: I've um
[310.42] Stephen: They've always been too expensive for me. So i've not used them either. I go for the cheap shotty stuff
[315.3] Stephen: But they're always on sale
[317.54] Curry: They've got to be in eud and don't they surely if no one's got any direct experience
[321.7] Stephen: And I know is that they do a lot of their own hardware and most other people are like oem through airbots
[327.94] Stephen: So people like I flight and diatone don't build their own hardware
[331.62] Stephen: Those guys are made by someone like acorn or airbot
[336.18] Stephen: So like brands like racestar that you've heard of they don't actually make their own stuff
[341.14] Stephen: These these are one of the guys that actually do do build boards
[346.7] Curry: Well caroline is saying heard of them, but not lately
[351.62] Curry: So are they you for all of us?
[354.74] Curry: I'd say it's I mean, yeah, I think we we could have used them indirectly because maybe we have used their components but in other people's
[362.74] Curry: oem hardware for example, but
[365.3] Curry: They're still doing boards
[367.3] Jack: Yeah, does anyone has anyone?
[370.34] Jack: Are they made something else that I don't i'm familiar with?
[375.62] Jack: Um, they're most think
[378.1] Stephen: they're most famous for
[380.42] Stephen: the original ak32
[382.66] Stephen: Like ak32 pin if you heard about that
[386.74] Stephen: no
[388.82] Stephen: I think they did the wraith as well esc
[392.1] Jack: Yeah, that's the yeah the wraith esc's i've heard of
[397.22] Jack: Which have been pretty good. I think i've actually got one in a wing
[401.54] Jack: like it's they seem pretty strong, but i'm
[405.38] Jack: I'm not
[407.38] Stephen: They're just not budget like the stuff you you usually recommend jack is no offense
[412.5] Stephen: It's kind of on the budget and it's a bit more like
[415.86] Stephen: a bit more premium, I guess so
[418.74] Stephen: You know people don't buy them because there's usually something cheaper like there's an akon 55 ambia cn sale at unmanned tech that's
[426.56] Stephen: 81 quid and I think the one I bought was like 45 quid. So
[432.02] Stephen: There's a fair cost premium on them
[434.74] Jack: I I think they're probably a good beat here. I reckon
[439.46] Curry: Can they be a beat here if we if no one's had any direct experience of them and nobody in the chat is particularly
[445.06] Curry: Feeding back about them. It feels like it's an unknown quantity for me. Yeah
[450.58] Stephen: I've had I had one and then I returned it because they changed the mcu type
[455.86] Stephen: So I didn't end up using it
[457.38] Stephen: I did buy one
[458.18] Stephen: I just then sent it back because they changed the model of the microcontroller on the erc and I couldn't flash it
[465.7] Curry: I don't know if that counts
[468.02] Curry: I even I even think if if they're not one of the problems is if you're premium you need to be
[473.94] Curry: somewhat above
[475.62] Curry: Your your budget competitors and if if they're only on par then that that rates them down in my opinion
[482.42] Curry: but because no one's really
[484.82] Curry: Properly used them. It's it's
[486.82] Curry: It's hard to rank other than you
[488.9] Stephen: I think a lot of the people if you look on bardwell server people who spend a lot of money on fancy motors
[495.46] Stephen: Like signature motors, they'd be more likely to end up with like an akon stack
[500.26] Stephen: Because they are you know, they they do the big chunky fets. They do heat sinks on them and stuff like that
[506.18] Stephen: I don't know if they're definitely better than eye flight and dieto and i'd say probably
[511.06] Curry: Dominik's had one and he said they were okay
[514.58] Curry: Seat here not amazing not bad either
[517.3] Koel: Is the dominik racing in the middle of the road, I guess
[524.7] Koel: None of us know enough to even spend more than
[527.66] Koel: Two more minutes or two minutes that we've talked about it
[529.74] Stephen: Sorry, so I do know that when I looked at am32 on their discord a lot of the crawler people are using them
[538.38] Jack: So c we're going with c
[540.86] Jack: Okay. Yeah
[542.3] Stephen: Caroline says that they're all usa based which might explain a lot and yeah that would tend to jive with
[547.9] Stephen: Seeing them talked about a lot on
[550.06] Stephen: Freestyle pilots from the u.s
[552.22] Koel: Although they very well could be s here, but because we don't know it's hard to place it with an acuity. Yes
[559.86] Jack: Okay, well, okay moving on apd. So these are these people either
[566.02] Jack: Yeah
[568.66] Stephen: Yeah, they're the only people that do an esc over about
[573.3] Curry: 70 amps the big escs that can take like 120 200 amps and run on
[579.7] Stephen: Cse I think they're based out of australia. They're bloody expensive. They've got their own custom firmware on
[586.74] Stephen: Um, it's very much a premium product, you know, 200 pounds a corner type stuff
[593.54] Koel: Well unknown for me
[595.78] Curry: It sounds a bit like fat shark
[597.54] Curry: They did so well because they're the only people doing it so they can do what they like and there's no one
[602.18] Stephen: There's t motor which no one uses for some reason they do agricultural stuff
[607.22] Stephen: But no one seems to use them on x-class and everyone uses apd and for x-class racing. I'm sure if tony was on he
[614.66] Stephen: Yeah, so we've got flight one clives here, yeah
[618.66] Stephen: APD
[620.98] Stephen: Bulletproof bulletproof expensive
[624.26] Stephen: And then actually the only choice if you want more than 12s
[627.38] Stephen: Like you don't everything else just tops out at 12s. So if you want 14s, it's apd
[633.3] Curry: I I think
[635.46] Curry: I then if if they're the eight because because they're the only ones it seems like they can't
[641.06] Curry: Are people in the s rank they've shown themselves to be above everybody else
[644.66] Curry: But when there's only one person doing it, it's like well, they're the only person you can't really
[650.5] Curry: Let's not do this
[651.3] Stephen: Apple reality distortion field just because it's the only brand that does this specific class of thing
[657.54] Stephen: Are you there?
[659.78] Stephen: I think a is fair to be honest just not s that's all okay
[664.42] Jack: Uh beta flight
[666.66] Stephen: Is that a brand?
[669.62] Stephen: Because it doesn't make hardware
[671.94] Koel: I didn't wonder that though when I was uh, yeah, why have you got the logo up there?
[674.74] Stephen: You've got kiss kiss is firmware and hardware is beta flights just software
[679.54] Jack: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean like the my argument was they had the beta flight board
[686.5] Stephen: They didn't know
[688.34] Stephen: That wasn't made by the beta flight project
[691.54] Stephen: It was just kind of a dubious trademark infringement thing
[695.38] Jack: And and they had didn't they have a beta flight bag at some point
[706.18] Curry: It's a bit like putting you know open tx up there as a as a brand it's it's not really applicable
[712.58] Koel: Well, you know when I was making the thumbnail for this week's um
[716.34] Koel: I was making the thumbnail for this week's thing. I actually
[718.82] Koel: Snagged the beta flight logo, but I was like wait a minute
[722.5] Koel: This doesn't make sense. So I actually took it out
[725.94] Stephen: Yeah, there's a beta uh beta flight
[730.98] Stephen: Sorry, um, but the manufacturer id is fpvm
[737.78] Stephen: What is the manufacturer id
[740.34] Jack: Give me a second. I like to be honest. I I don't think like you've got to make something
[747.06] Jack: You know, but they're still providing like
[750.42] Jack: You know like firmware and they're still devs and you know
[753.54] Jack: How much are they put in effort and it's the default? Yeah fair enough. You want to acknowledge the devs?
[758.5] Stephen: There's people yeah, but like but in
[761.46] Stephen: 20-hour weeks and don't get paid for it. So
[771.7] Curry: I feel the problem with open source projects as brands
[776.18] Curry: Is they jump up to s purely because the fact is like here's somebody supplying something for you for free
[784.18] Curry: You can't you can't really argue with the value can you and so it goes way up, you know
[789.46] Curry: You can you can argue that certain people have made life more difficult
[793.62] Curry: But you know, you're not you don't have to use that there's someone else to use so
[800.1] Jack: I can add fpvm wtf and I should really id now as well
[805.7] Stephen: You know as dominic says and he should know the beta flight board wasn't a beta flight product and yeah
[810.9] Stephen: Yeah, what about the holly fag furious fpv?
[814.82] Koel: Like a bag. No, can you really like encapsulate a brand that only made maybe
[820.66] Curry: Maybe as another podcast to say we're rating
[824.58] Curry: Open source projects. Yes. Yes
[827.78] Curry: Tell you what's what's best because we have to rate them against each other
[833.38] Stephen: For the next show or
[835.22] Stephen: something in the series
[837.3] Curry: I'll put it as you for unknown. Okay, and that's kind of the claim is as as clean flight as well because clean flight
[844.02] Curry: It wasn't the same as the the sp
[846.82] Curry: f32
[848.1] Stephen: Board everything's got to be seen in the context of its time as well if a project stopped development
[852.98] Stephen: Just because it's not fancy by today's standards. You've got to remember
[857.86] Jack: Okay clean flight I know
[861.3] Jack: darwin fpv
[863.94] Jack: Unknown for me
[865.7] Curry: Well, I've had one of them their quads
[868.5] Curry: And it was it was uh average. It was just a little whoop, but they've they've done some other stuff
[873.54] Curry: I think since then they've done some more right gear, but I haven't I haven't looked at any personally, but
[879.14] Curry: Other people seem quite happy with it. I would put them
[882.02] Curry: As a sort of c rating as like it's middle of the road. It seems all right
[885.78] Stephen: Insane value if you're talking about value
[888.26] Stephen: I think that they're shipping with some really weird looking motors like they've got these gray motors that
[894.82] Stephen: Don't have the same standard mounting holes as everything else god knows where they
[899.62] Stephen: Pardon me
[900.82] Stephen: Where they got them from but the price point is coming in. I think they had a one quad that was 79 dollars as a bind and fly
[908.5] Curry: That's it. That's why we've heard of them. It was it's because it was ultra cheap, wasn't it? It was like
[913.94] Curry: Yeah, it's not amazing
[916.18] Curry: But you'll get in the air for cheaps and it's not just going to blow up it's it's reasonable enough
[922.66] Koel: Yeah, the baby if you can get a whole bind and fly for 96 dollars, that's the one that's the one
[928.5] Stephen: I think they they originally had it for like 79 dollars
[931.38] Stephen: But if you didn't want a board cam and you wanted like a decent modern camera added another 20 bucks onto it
[937.54] Koel: Ah, yeah, you're right. That is the pro version, right?
[940.98] Koel: Wow
[943.06] Jack: Um, so what we started here
[945.22] Koel: No, yeah, go on. Sorry guys. Oh, no, sorry, bro. No, no, it's okay. It's okay. Um
[951.54] Koel: I mean for her value or budget I guess is probably up there, right? But I have no experience with it. So I don't know
[960.5] Curry: And i've only flown a week which is okay, but you know, I hear good things about the baby if you take value into consideration but
[969.3] Curry: Not not enough data from me to put them anywhere above
[972.5] Curry: Like middle of the road sea raking rank ranking rating. Well, I guess all the bind and fly brands are kind of
[979.54] Koel: They're on a pretty even playing field, I guess, right?
[984.18] Curry: Well, I I argued for certain things should be higher but jack ignored me because he's deliberately winding me up on things
[991.38] Curry: But yeah
[992.66] Curry: Some some of the by the advisor
[995.06] Curry: I will get out you
[997.86] Stephen: Okay
[999.54] Stephen: But you can't argue with the value it was a three inch as well like wood prices for a three inch. It's pretty good
[1005.62] Jack: Yeah
[1006.74] Jack: uh, so
[1009.22] Jack: What we're going for
[1011.22] Curry: see
[1012.34] Curry: See I I say see middle of the road
[1014.34] Curry: If if you're really taking value for money proposition to account you could bump them up
[1018.9] Curry: It depends. I mean we're trying to look at that all in one. I I tend to feel middle of the road is about right for them
[1025.38] Jack: Okay
[1026.34] Jack: Um, right next one getting into big names now dji
[1031.6] Curry: interesting
[1035.7] Curry: It can't be an s-tier because they do too many things to piss people off that they're at their
[1043.06] Koel: That's all. Wait, we have to don't listen to
[1049.62] Koel: Are we strictly talking
[1051.86] Koel: Fpv or are we talking about
[1054.4] Curry: Drones in general because we're talking the entire brand and and they did some pretty good
[1059.7] Curry: They got a lot of people into it with the flame wheel and the naza
[1063.38] Curry: And they were a little more of a hobby brand then
[1066.9] Curry: And look at the cinematography stuff. I don't think anybody comes close to them
[1071.06] Curry: but
[1072.02] Curry: they do these really annoying things like they don't make things compatible with other things even on that range of stuff and
[1079.7] Curry: Their their fpv journey is is not necessarily engaged with the community. We've had the whole
[1085.94] Curry: Yeah
[1087.22] Stephen: Let's make a fancy battery. It's a proprietary battery and
[1092.02] Stephen: Yeah, they only effectively they are the product in that space kind of like apd, right? They're good
[1097.94] Stephen: But they're the only product in that space with there's competition from walk snail on the fpv side
[1103.54] Stephen: but in the kind of camera in the sky
[1107.3] Stephen: I mean you you're reviewing one of the competitors at the same price last week, weren't you curry and you're like
[1114.02] Stephen: Oh, it's the same price as like a mavic
[1116.5] Stephen: But it's just terrible in every aspect except for maybe its ability to
[1121.7] Stephen: Give more momentum than a mavic and hurt someone if it falls out the sky
[1125.94] Curry: Yes, because it's very heavy. So yeah, if
[1129.14] Curry: They're sort of untouched. I think there's a couple of brands
[1132.66] Curry: that come close to it, but they're not very big and
[1136.1] Curry: That you just
[1137.78] Curry: Their their sort of entry level proposition is low enough
[1141.94] Curry: That it's it's kind of
[1144.5] Curry: more people are
[1146.18] Curry: Buying these instead of the sort of cheap over ends and at their sort of high end level
[1150.9] Curry: Obviously, they're very impressive and you can see that you don't have to
[1154.5] Curry: Do much watching of like tv shows to see
[1157.3] Curry: dji
[1158.82] Curry: stuff in the sky all over taking
[1160.9] Curry: Uh
[1162.1] Curry: shots of uh stuff and things so
[1165.06] Curry: Yeah, if you just look at them from one point of view you could argue that like this is s rank
[1169.54] Curry: This is untouched. But if you look at them as a whole you've got to bump them back
[1174.26] Curry: For doing some pretty shoddy things with
[1176.82] Curry: Yeah
[1177.86] Curry: Not not thinking about customers at all. Yeah, they they they're not
[1182.18] Curry: They don't give a crap about customers like oh if they want to upgrade to this next one
[1186.58] Curry: Let's make sure that the batteries don't work
[1189.3] Curry: Or the controller won't work and they have to buy whole new system all over again because that's their business model rebuy it my
[1196.02] Koel: My sort of comparison with dji is they are the apple of the drone world where like you said
[1201.7] Koel: You get a new model and your charger doesn't work or the battery doesn't work. Yep
[1206.98] Koel: or you know, they've swapped the cable or
[1210.74] Koel: you know and
[1212.82] Koel: In the past their customer support was not the greatest and their um
[1218.1] Koel: The repair sort of center stuff was really bad. I think it's gotten better. Although I don't deal with them anymore for that stuff, but
[1227.3] Koel: Yes, for for in this like they are an industry standard nowadays, which could put them in s class
[1233.78] Koel: but
[1235.3] Stephen: Because obsolescence, right?
[1238.26] Stephen: Yeah, like col you fly 4s if you decided to buy a 6s quad tomorrow
[1243.14] Stephen: You could take your 4s batteries and fly them on your 6s fpv quad
[1247.06] Stephen: Yeah with a dji product if you've bought 10 batteries for the last generation and you buy a new generation
[1253.94] Stephen: Well tough luck, right? It's four stops obsolescence those batteries could be in perfect condition, but you're not going to be able to use them
[1260.74] Koel: The other thing too is even the the rcs that they make. I don't know why they don't just make them
[1264.9] Koel: Um
[1266.34] Koel: Always compatible with every you know, every single quad or drone that they put out
[1272.18] Koel: You know, okay, they got the phantom they got the big bulky ones
[1274.9] Koel: Okay, that makes sense that it's not going to work with the next new technology
[1278.98] Koel: well
[1280.02] Koel: many two
[1281.7] Koel: many three, uh
[1283.86] Koel: The spark and the mini like they almost all have different remote controls. I know some of them you can sort of
[1289.38] Koel: Interchange the the remotes with it, but some of them are like, okay, no brand new brand new controller
[1294.5] Koel: It's like oh, right
[1296.02] Stephen: Okay, and they let people discover which is compatible this this happened a lot with the fpv system
[1302.18] Stephen: Where it wasn't really clearly advertised what product would work with what?
[1306.26] Stephen: you've had people like man's tech and joshua bardwell and pavil speckowski and others who who
[1313.62] Stephen: making coin off youtube ads because
[1316.98] Stephen: The information about which dji product is compatible with the other product and on which firmware version just isn't out there
[1324.34] Stephen: And it's that gaps filled by youtubers who make videos where they talk for five minutes
[1329.06] Stephen: And the last 30 seconds are just like an excel sheet that shows you what is compatible with what else
[1335.3] Stephen: Yeah, and that's that's kind of lame for a company as big as dji
[1339.54] Koel: I would probably say
[1341.54] Koel: it's a b
[1342.98] Koel: but
[1344.02] Koel: other people are saying c
[1346.9] Curry: I don't know what if the thing is if you look at the brand overall if if you want to go out and
[1351.62] Curry: Film something and get ultimate like your cinematography shots
[1355.94] Curry: Then that's up there. But yeah
[1358.74] Curry: They they come down as the sort of the company thing, but I think they're more than a minute of the road because they are
[1363.86] Curry: Yeah, maybe be then
[1367.3] Curry: The go-to for cinematography, aren't they if you want to try it in the sky
[1371.46] Curry: Get a dji. Exactly. Well, it rhymes i've just made a tagline for them
[1376.18] Koel: Well, yeah, it's
[1377.86] Koel: It is I mean there are some other brands. I mean there's what is it parrot and then there's um
[1383.94] Koel: Who's that other brand again? Um, the american brand that makes
[1387.78] Stephen: Teal
[1388.9] Stephen: They're going into defense. They're all about military now, apparently
[1392.34] Stephen: Which one skydio? Oh skydio. Teal are going into well, there's skydio. I'm not sure they go into the military
[1398.5] Koel: What's the the orange the big orange dji like drone? It's not skydio. It's um
[1405.87] Koel: I can't remember what the other uh brand is. It's it's an american company, but I don't think we see them in the rest of the world
[1411.63] Curry: They're not as dominant. They're just not even a big yeah, I don't think parrot still in the consumer market. Are they?
[1418.99] Koel: Yeah, I don't think so
[1420.83] Curry: And caroline's saying all tell is it all tell I have an ao drone from parrot
[1425.07] Koel: That's exactly the drone i'm talking about is autel like i'll tell evo and whatever
[1429.31] Koel: they're
[1430.91] Koel: They're basically on the same level as dji except nobody. I don't think very many people buy them because dji exists
[1437.23] Stephen: Yeah
[1438.27] Stephen: so
[1439.39] Stephen: If I search autel then I find like vehicle diagnostics as well. They're not even like the top hit for autel
[1446.99] Stephen: so
[1449.07] Jack: Yeah, sky stars are on b their their old logo
[1454.83] Jack: By the way an abuse mark
[1457.45] Jack: dominick is in e
[1460.01] Jack: Um, their pdv is here. So they are here
[1464.01] Jack: You tune into last week
[1466.65] Curry: I think the other chinese manufacturer that were coming reasonably close to what dji could do with fimmy
[1472.01] Curry: Who haven't heard of for a while, but they were doing some fairly good. Yeah
[1475.45] Curry: Quads, I know
[1477.13] Curry: And the rc had a couple I think caroline had one as well, which it seemed quite comparable to the dji as well
[1483.85] Jack: Oh arm of tan. I forgot an arm of tan
[1486.89] Jack: Um
[1488.25] Stephen: It's okay. That's okay. We'll just continue to be additional
[1491.77] Stephen: I think last time we only managed to put about
[1494.33] Stephen: 10 of or 12 of these tiles up there. So we might not even get through the whole list. We'll see. Yeah, that's fine
[1500.97] Stephen: Yeah, so we're on to ethics now. It looks like they're now a contentious one ethics like it's choice, but it's
[1508.09] Stephen: It's basically other people's products in green
[1511.93] Stephen: You know
[1513.05] Stephen: He's not yeah, he's sourcing them and he's saying make me a green one
[1517.77] Curry: I I haven't
[1520.01] Curry: Had any ethics stuff, but it does seem to be an ethics brand
[1524.41] Curry: Put on something else and sort of a special edition of something. Is that pretty much it? Do they do their own bespoke stuff?
[1532.81] Curry: Who's a catalyst?
[1534.57] Jack: Who's catalyst?
[1536.09] Stephen: He's getting like bags and lanyards and straps
[1540.09] Stephen: And gets them in the same color scheme and they're good examples
[1546.73] Stephen: They don't make them they're they're hq props
[1550.17] Stephen: Or hq props
[1551.69] Koel: Yeah, I I use my parentheses on they make props. I mean the little prop tool is okay
[1556.73] Jack: The prop tool was awesome. Cole your prop tool i've used that and it is nifty
[1562.49] Koel: and it it's kind of nifty though, except it like
[1565.85] Koel: Like stabs your hand though when you're doing it. So it's yeah fast
[1570.89] Jack: Um, but it's something that won't get taken off you
[1576.73] Stephen: It's like a curated list if you you know if you buy something from ethics you're not going to buy
[1582.33] Stephen: Random garbage. It's going to be something that someone's used
[1586.01] Stephen: And they believe that it's a good example of the product
[1589.85] Jack: the
[1592.33] Jack: Is
[1593.69] Curry: Does it add value though?
[1595.69] Curry: Are they literally just putting their name on it?
[1598.01] Curry: Are they doing something to make it a special edition which adds value to it?
[1602.89] Curry: Otherwise, it's just like it's ethics. It's more expensive free branding
[1606.41] Koel: well, again, if you look at the like some older steel videos he talks about how like
[1611.29] Koel: The reason why he even wanted to make that brand is because he wanted to make products that he likes that he would actually use
[1618.25] Koel: And and that's it's basically it's like I need this stuff. I'm gonna make it if you want to buy it sure
[1623.85] Stephen: It's curation
[1624.65] Stephen: It's like I want to make sure that this stuff carries on being made
[1628.33] Stephen: And the easiest way to get it is to place a bulk order
[1631.53] Stephen: I'll take like five of them and the other like
[1634.95] Stephen: 495 out of the bulk order i'm going to put on a web store and sell to people with my name on it
[1639.45] Stephen: So, you know, there's a little cash. Yeah
[1642.17] Koel: I mean there is he's just
[1646.41] Jack: Solid they're curated right if not a
[1650.73] Jack: Maybe I think curation counts for a lot to be honest do anything. Yeah
[1654.49] Jack: I mean, this is okay
[1656.01] Koel: So if I would say in general if you ask like
[1659.53] Koel: You know the if you got a majority vote from the whole fpv community
[1663.61] Koel: I bet you people would say that they love ethics period. I think people would just say they like it
[1668.25] Stephen: The motor's got an absolute panning in the last chris rosser test. Yes, they were like the worst efficiency the worst talk
[1675.29] Stephen: They were just very bad motors
[1677.61] Stephen: But I fully believe stuff like the screwdriver set and the prop tool
[1681.13] Stephen: He's thinking a lot more about the day-to-day usage of those and he's not going to sell something
[1685.29] Stephen: If he takes it out to a shoot and it falls apart. So yeah, not not value for money true
[1695.29] Stephen: He's finding something from like
[1697.77] Stephen: Ali alibaba and he's getting it in his color with his name on it and that's cool
[1703.21] Stephen: But you could find it cheaper for sure
[1705.53] Koel: Yeah, you're paying for the name you're paying for the
[1709.05] Koel: You're paying for the steel
[1711.21] Koel: Whatever you want to call it like people are going to support steel
[1714.41] Koel: They're going to buy ethics and that's basically what you're paying for
[1717.21] Koel: So if you want to pay the for the premium you can do it, but
[1721.77] Koel: Oh, I will say though. I actually do like the ethics sticky straps for the hero five session
[1727.05] Koel: I did like that
[1728.73] Jack: Yeah, yeah
[1730.73] Stephen: Gaoi more than they're cheaper than what gaoi it's like uma god like uma god sells his super extra special sticky battery thing
[1739.53] Stephen: Yeah, you know that he's not making that he's just finding the right content sourcing it slap a name on it. Yeah
[1746.09] Stephen: Yeah
[1747.45] Stephen: Okay
[1748.97] Koel: Yeah, I mean
[1750.25] Koel: I think there's gonna be a lot of differing opinions for ethics
[1754.01] Koel: No, I think they're not bad. They're not amazing. They're they're good. They're fine. They're fine
[1759.93] Stephen: And there's such a wide variety of products. It's really hard to conclusively say they're good or bad because it's a spectrum, right?
[1766.17] Stephen: Yeah, okay. Okay. So what what do we have next?
[1769.69] Jack: um, we have
[1771.53] Jack: 550
[1777.61] Stephen: I know I don't know where you finding these brands jack
[1780.89] Stephen: That's what's his face his brand the the one who keeps winning all the championships in the u.s
[1785.37] Stephen: I've completely blanked on his name. Not van over the other dude. Damn it
[1789.69] Koel: Oh, I know you're talking about but I don't know his name
[1792.65] Stephen: Yeah, I did when I started speaking and then I just suddenly like
[1797.21] Koel: His name completely. That's so where's the dementia?
[1801.21] Stephen: Um, yeah
[1803.37] Koel: Evan Turner. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
[1806.73] Stephen: Yeah, yeah
[1808.73] Koel: Honestly, if it's not kiss if it's not impulse frames and if it's not t-motor motors, I don't know anything so
[1819.21] Stephen: So that that is a thing that
[1821.69] Stephen: He created this tiny little version of
[1825.69] Stephen: One of the big drl frames and it's got this cute sort of plastic cover that goes on top
[1831.05] Stephen: So it looks like a small version of the big quad
[1834.49] Stephen: And that that is a 533 design like no one else is making that show again. Sorry. I've just increased your size
[1841.77] Stephen: so it's
[1842.89] Stephen: I I've just rested it on top there, but there's this special kind of arm cover bit
[1847.69] Stephen: So it looks like a drl racer and it's got a 3d printed mount that goes on the front
[1852.65] Stephen: So it looks just like a three inch version of the giant seven inch monster from drl
[1860.65] Stephen: Um, and that's kind of cute
[1862.81] Stephen: It's a neat idea
[1865.53] Stephen: So he's got some stuff that he's rebranding like you can get orca goggles with his name on and you can get
[1872.33] Stephen: Props and batteries with his name on but he is, you know making his own frames and stuff as well
[1878.01] Jack: We're getting we we're getting a few
[1880.89] Jack: He's five foot treatment ethics crunk saying it's f tiny trainer
[1886.09] Jack: I'd bump ethics down. There's no way they could be in the same tier. That's true. I love the tiny trainer
[1893.13] Koel: Yeah, that is a good point. Can ethics really be in the same tier as dji and fox here and
[1898.81] Koel: and
[1899.61] Koel: You know some of those other
[1901.61] Jack: Way, there's no way like happy model or
[1905.85] Stephen: Just because it's got steels name on it
[1907.69] Stephen: I'd argue the kit is exactly the type of stuff you'd buy from ifly or diatone
[1912.01] Stephen: You just think it's premium because it's got steels name on it. I think that's fair
[1916.33] Koel: Maybe
[1918.33] Curry: That's the sort of stuff
[1919.61] Curry: I would personally bump down because I don't think it adds value by sticking someone's name on it and saying I recommend this it's like
[1926.01] Curry: Okay, just publish your spreadsheet with what you think is good and we'll buy that if you
[1932.81] Koel: Fair enough, yeah, yeah ethics can't be up
[1937.77] Koel: Okay, that's uh, what's next
[1941.05] Jack: Hack RC
[1948.17] Stephen: Not that i've got i've got one board here on on the bench from hakasi and another one on order
[1954.01] Stephen: They've been around for donkey's years. It's fortunate steven that you buy this thing every week. I know man. So, um
[1962.89] Koel: Oh
[1963.93] Koel: Numskull says the ethics mambo goes up to 11 though. But what about the radio master boxer which
[1971.05] Koel: Well, you can't get your watch out radio master mambo
[1975.77] Koel: Did I say that
[1979.37] Jack: Man dom dominic clifton's kicking off about
[1983.37] Jack: surely
[1985.37] Curry: I'm very much on the save wavelength as dominic here. I don't I don't really I don't really get it
[1990.17] Curry: It's it might be a curated list
[1991.77] Curry: but
[1992.41] Curry: It and I hate to sound corporate when I say things like add value because it sounds like one of the things like i'd get asked
[1998.89] Curry: In some sort of review. Well, how have you added value to this? It's like well, you know, I wrote my name on it and
[2004.33] Curry: Said yeah, look at this
[2006.01] Curry: It doesn't it doesn't sound like they're doing enough at all
[2009.53] Stephen: Yeah, so hakasi were one of those banggood brands like ishin basically
[2015.21] Curry: Oh, I've got any of that stuff that's weird
[2017.93] Stephen: and they were
[2019.13] Stephen: So the reason I have them is because they were the only way I could buy stuff with an f7 on it
[2024.09] Stephen: for a sensible price like an I got an f7 flight controller 20 mil
[2030.25] Stephen: and a
[2031.61] Stephen: 35 amp four in one 20 mil and the stack was like
[2037.21] Stephen: I think it was 50 quid and I bought that
[2040.89] Stephen: four months back
[2042.41] Stephen: And I bought an all-in-one
[2044.25] Stephen: At the same time as I bought the iFlight all-in-one and I got the hakasi one with an f7
[2050.41] Stephen: And it's got like a usb plug on a lead
[2053.53] Stephen: That comes out the back and it's the same price as the iFlight f411. It's just
[2059.69] Stephen: Slightly better value hardware
[2061.61] Stephen: So if you want to like get an upgrade on the flight controller without paying any money
[2065.45] Stephen: You can just get like the hakasi model and
[2068.33] Stephen: Yeah, it's pretty good. What do you reckon then in solid?
[2072.33] Stephen: C B
[2075.34] Stephen: Probably a C
[2077.9] Koel: The name suggests it's a E if it's a hack RC but
[2083.66] Koel: It's a hack brand
[2085.18] Jack: I don't I just don't have anything by them
[2089.71] Stephen: But you're not buying a random rubbish. That's the trouble
[2092.67] Stephen: Yeah
[2094.03] Jack: hglrc
[2096.91] Stephen: I have had quite an impressive fire with hglrc
[2100.91] Curry: Yeah, I've heard my stuff has been okay so far. I'm just thinking how much stuff i've had from them
[2107.15] Koel: I've got jacks putting it up to S tier
[2110.91] Stephen: I mean it did really like it burnt the camera. It was big enough a big enough fire to burn the camera
[2116.27] Koel: I think it's more like a h tier, isn't it?
[2119.63] Curry: they
[2120.59] Curry: They've recently i've had some
[2122.91] Curry: Paranormal charging boards from them and the quad I got was reasonably nice and reasonably good gear
[2128.11] Curry: But I don't think i'd put them
[2130.59] Curry: Uh, I suppose they're kind of in the fox ear emacs category. I guess somewhere between a b and c
[2136.67] Curry: I'd say on the on the sort of
[2138.99] Curry: reasonably mid-tier end of the
[2142.19] Curry: the sort of um
[2144.19] Curry: pre-built ready to fly quads
[2146.83] Koel: I don't know
[2149.23] Stephen: Yeah crunk is wondering where's trash to caroline says d slash e and i'd say d slash e like mine caught fire
[2157.55] Stephen: Really badly and it just burned up the whole quad i've
[2161.87] Stephen: I've had a picture. I posted a while back and it was just it just charred the whole thing
[2167.39] Stephen: Hey
[2168.35] Koel: Well last week we had a dog here that jack just ever so uh, you know elegantly deleted. Yeah
[2177.31] Stephen: I mean they're kind of off a piece with
[2179.87] Stephen: Gep, rc. They don't make their own motors either. I think they kind of rebrand electronics. They're definitely not premium seems harsh
[2186.99] Curry: It's interesting. We we have different experiences. This is the thing. So from my experience, absolutely fine actually pretty good
[2193.07] Curry: Somewhere above um, you know middle of the road I would say but if you guys have burst into flames
[2199.07] Stephen: But don't they make those like zu stacks or something and like yeah d I'd say below c below definitely below c
[2206.91] Stephen: D d slash e I think is fair
[2209.47] Jack: Okay
[2210.67] Jack: Next we need cole screaming next
[2213.71] Jack: Next now
[2217.15] Jack: Impulse
[2218.99] Jack: Yeah
[2221.15] Jack: I've never had anything by the way to you guys get them all the time
[2228.03] Jack: Two-year warranty
[2230.03] Jack: yeah, um
[2231.87] Jack: like
[2234.11] Jack: Sean's great wheel customer service beautiful. I've only ever had
[2240.03] Jack: great things quality carbon
[2243.15] Jack: um
[2244.91] Jack: light and hardware
[2246.91] Jack: just great
[2248.59] Jack: if anything
[2250.19] Jack: Like they're just they're a bit slow to react because they haven't got anything that fits the oh three. Yeah officially
[2259.15] Koel: And
[2261.23] Jack: Yeah, you know and they're they're a bit on the expensive side but they've addressed they're kind of addressing that
[2268.19] Jack: um
[2270.67] Koel: I like them. Dom. I i'm don't
[2273.63] Jack: if we move
[2275.71] Jack: ethics down one more
[2278.51] Jack: will you
[2280.03] Stephen: Stop people. You don't don't run. They're absolutely on a rampage in the chat
[2285.63] Jack: Someone needs to like rate limit crime just to calm them down. Right i'll move it i'll move it to d
[2291.79] Jack: If you shut up, it will stay there
[2294.75] Koel: The only way we're gonna keep it at d
[2296.75] Stephen: Is that everyone goes and likes this video? Dom we're only a couple away from sp racing you you want to behave yourself, mate
[2303.15] Curry: Oh, yeah, you gotta
[2305.15] Stephen: Gotta watch it
[2307.95] Stephen: All right now now here we are there's an interesting one
[2311.63] Stephen: a garbage brand
[2313.63] Stephen: That is incredible value and the of all the quads I own i've got like 30 plus
[2320.35] Stephen: Jh emcu represents the largest fraction of them
[2324.11] Stephen: I don't know if anyone else has a single board, but i've got in excess of
[2328.75] Stephen: 10
[2329.87] Stephen: of these boards
[2331.71] Jack: They they are so cheap. It is shocking
[2335.79] Jack: and how
[2337.39] Jack: They are
[2338.59] Jack: Kind of circumnavigate by how cheap it is
[2342.27] Stephen: Like it's like almost disposable on a good day. Yeah
[2346.51] Jack: Like they almost get low on
[2348.75] Stephen: It lasts just as long as any other board and sometimes you buy one and you're like, yeah, no one check this at all
[2354.43] Stephen: This is a piece of crap
[2356.83] Stephen: But they don't communicate with any of the projects
[2359.07] Stephen: They're like i've heard them described as a secret chinese tribe who don't talk to outsiders
[2365.55] Stephen: I fully put them down as as an e
[2369.07] Stephen: If you look at their github repo, it's just a bunch of out of date
[2373.63] Stephen: Like random firmware they've cooked up that works on their boards that was never officially released that they just take like
[2382.91] Stephen: Weird hacks in it's like yeah, they're fully supported now
[2386.35] Stephen: The beta flight the reason that you can use them is I wrote a bunch of targets for these boards because they were just so
[2391.63] Stephen: Cheap I couldn't say no and ended up with a bunch of them and then figured out that they were all using like I flight targets
[2397.87] Stephen: And so I had to go and like cook up a target
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[2427.47] Koel: Next hurry up
[2431.79] Koel: Because there's so many different types of so it's kiss
[2434.83] Jack: Different company than kiss. Yeah wait for this. Wait, hurry
[2438.83] Jack: Curry the chat wait just wait for the chat. Are you watching?
[2442.03] Jack: They go down
[2443.63] Jack: But kiss ultra
[2445.47] Jack: Yeah, what was that?
[2448.35] Jack: Are they two separate entities are they two separate companies?
[2453.15] Jack: Will you shut up if I do it?
[2455.63] Stephen: No, I want to know are they two separate companies or not?
[2458.59] Stephen: What the deal is one place called kiss I fly to where you know, and then everyone had a hissy fit and now it's made by someone else
[2464.51] Koel: But is anything fundamentally different between someone else? Let's let's let's say who it's made by holy bro fed her off
[2472.75] Stephen: Alexander fed her up. Oh, sorry. That's fetec stuff. Isn't it? They're made by holy bro. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know
[2478.75] Koel: I just like kiss and kiss
[2480.91] Jack: customer service good
[2483.31] Jack: Yeah, the the the v1 was pretty fragile, you know, but they've kind of fixed that with tvs diodes and stuff
[2491.95] Jack: I know don's gonna be like
[2494.59] Jack: you know, uh
[2496.75] Jack: but
[2498.83] Curry: No, no, no same company then you have to combine you have to take the crappiness of kiss with the apparent goodness of ultra
[2505.39] Curry: smidge him in the middle
[2508.11] Koel: There's just a huge two brand it's yeah, it's uh, that's that's a whole controversial topic anyway
[2515.47] Stephen: I don't even know i'm i'm slightly confused. It all just says kiss to me
[2519.63] Stephen: So I assume it's the same thing like if it's a different company, why didn't they just choose a different name?
[2525.79] Stephen: Well, it just sounds like a board model
[2529.55] Koel: Yeah, that's that's a big rabbit hole that we could go on for a whole episode to be honest if anything it's a fork
[2536.43] Jack: Of it and they've had to keep the name
[2539.63] Jack: because obviously
[2542.11] Jack: His newly developed code trickles back down to kiss and this this was the firmware that kind of grew out of
[2549.87] Stephen: like early base flight and clean flight and then went closed source and there's
[2555.15] Stephen: some rumors that it's actually running kind of basically beta flight 3.1 3.2 level features the adaptive filtering there
[2563.47] Stephen: And a 1k pit loop and it's just like really heavily filtered and that's why it's so smooth
[2570.51] Jack: Um, I think it
[2572.83] Jack: stems from
[2574.35] Jack: No, no, no
[2575.63] Jack: I think it stems from the multi-wee's days because have you ever flown anything multi-wee?
[2583.23] Curry: But everything stems from multi-wee now. That's where the code base came from
[2587.47] Jack: Yeah
[2588.51] Stephen: Well, they claim they have these adaptive filters and adaptive filters were written in beta flight and there's some kind of like
[2595.07] Stephen: Maybe it's a flight one type situation where they sort of yoinked a bit of code and not really, uh,
[2600.51] Stephen: fessed up
[2602.83] Curry: We're never nothing's close source
[2606.67] Jack: Mark we can hand back on we'll ask him he will answer your questions. All right, I will I will get him on
[2614.51] Stephen: Yeah
[2615.55] Curry: Yeah, show us the code. Show me the code show me show me your repo. Let us have a look. We'll we'll decide
[2622.91] Curry: Next
[2628.67] Stephen: Wow
[2629.79] Stephen: Now what have luminaire done lately? They're not relevant. They used to make really nice omni antennas
[2635.55] Curry: What have you done for me lately?
[2637.71] Curry: Exactly. This this is the question you've got to ask luminaire. We're a big mover and shaker back
[2643.55] Koel: Back in the day. You want to see some luminaires? Oh, wait, is this gonna work?
[2648.11] Koel: Well, here's some old luminaires. So that's upside down
[2651.07] Stephen: Wow, those are old
[2653.39] Stephen: That's really old
[2655.55] Koel: This is some old
[2656.91] Stephen: Yes, that's an I've got a luminaire omni on the first carbon fiber quad that I bought I bought after um
[2664.11] Stephen: Having a bunch of whoops
[2666.11] Stephen: That thing I put a little omni from luminaire on and it's still on
[2670.43] Stephen: Luminaire but i've never bought anything else from them
[2673.55] Stephen: It was a good antenna make 25 milliwatts
[2675.87] Stephen: Promoters at one point right jack. Yeah. Yeah, but not any time recently like that was probably four years ago
[2684.64] Jack: Yeah, yeah true d
[2687.36] Jack: I think they fall into the same fat sharks. Yeah
[2690.96] Jack: They were relevant. They're good. They're not crap
[2695.36] Jack: I almost want to wait move jhe
[2699.52] Jack: Up because they're so cheap. They're so cheap
[2702.96] Jack: I don't think they're absolute
[2706.0] Stephen: Like I was buying h743 all-in-one boards from them that were like
[2711.58] Stephen: 45 quid at one point and they're they're good boards like i'm running two of them right now
[2717.12] Stephen: They but yeah some i've also got one quad I was testing today. They just exhibits chaotic noise
[2723.76] Jack: As good as emacs
[2726.0] Stephen: Yeah, you want them?
[2728.4] Jack: Surely see yeah
[2730.4] Stephen: The trouble is with with luminaire if you search for their products then
[2734.4] Stephen: If you just search like luminaire fpv all the stuff that comes up is really old
[2738.72] Stephen: So i'm wondering what i've actually done recently they released anything
[2743.68] Stephen: Okay next
[2746.16] Jack: Oh, yeah, I think okay, uh orca
[2750.08] Jack: I haven't
[2751.68] Curry: Don't know can't afford the goggles
[2753.92] Jack: Yeah
[2754.88] Koel: I think anyone what i've seen and what i've heard
[2759.2] Koel: they're pretty
[2761.04] Koel: you know, they're pretty well respected I think but
[2764.24] Koel: Weren't they supposed to make some hd system that just kind of like disappeared off the face of the earth?
[2768.8] Stephen: There was a lot of hype. Yeah
[2771.12] Koel: but I mean
[2772.32] Stephen: one of the few european grounds
[2774.64] Stephen: but
[2776.0] Stephen: Has anyone reviewed the goggles i've heard they're good, but they don't have that great field of view
[2782.7] Koel: Yeah, I don't really know. I remember I just remember hearing bachrinder saying he loves them and
[2788.06] Koel: But now he's moved on I guess to hd zero. So
[2792.22] Jack: All right, let's move luminaire up to c because apparently bardwell's frame is
[2798.54] Jack: Made by luminaire. It's a qav. Yeah
[2802.06] Jack: so
[2803.18] Jack: Okay, you know
[2805.5] Jack: So they are making new stuff. So we're wrong. We'll move that up
[2809.9] Jack: Yeah, luminaire
[2812.62] Jack: Orca have we agreed we don't know enough. We don't know. We don't know enough about orca
[2818.06] Stephen: One product that's very premium and to be honest when I had the choice
[2822.06] Stephen: I looked at the sky zones and they were 150 pounds less for essentially the same thing. So I went skyzone
[2828.54] Jack: gusto solid b they have a power button
[2831.9] Jack: um
[2832.94] Jack: All right race star
[2834.78] Stephen: No idea right racer star. I mean they're they're cheap. They're really cheap probably get pricey. No, no, nowhere near the top
[2843.18] Stephen: That's cheap
[2845.42] Stephen: Racer star
[2846.78] Stephen: so I have one um
[2848.54] Stephen: racist star product that I was trying to get working today a flight controller that works great with uh
[2857.66] Stephen: Works great unless you try and read the voltage
[2860.94] Stephen: meter
[2861.98] Stephen: And it's accurate up to 4s
[2864.46] Stephen: But by the time I plug in a 6s the battery is 23 volts and it reads 21.2 volts
[2871.34] Stephen: That's kind of that's the the sort of quality level we're talking about here a bit dodgy
[2877.18] Stephen: Yeah, it's down down down
[2881.66] Stephen: Yeah, ee is good. Yeah, anyway seriously pro has anyone ever really heard of them?
[2887.66] Stephen: But I don't think we're gonna get any comments from the chat at least no
[2893.1] Koel: Um with a name like that they must be asked here don't dom says d
[2909.02] Jack: Yeah, the spf3 I mean that was that was a life changing at the time
[2916.14] Jack: But you then not he hasn't been sitting still
[2923.9] Stephen: It was kind enough to send over a sample so he's got i've got one of the h7 rf boards with with
[2930.14] Stephen: With a built-in express lrs
[2932.78] Stephen: But you fly kiss jack
[2935.02] Jack: Yeah, I know but no well
[2937.1] Jack: Believe it or not
[2938.78] Jack: Guess who flew beat flight this weekend?
[2941.66] Jack: He got the little uh h743 slim up in the air. Yeah, it's a slim. Yeah
[2946.86] Jack: And he's pretty good
[2948.54] Jack: It was pretty good
[2950.86] Stephen: Right. So yeah
[2953.42] Stephen: Like kudos to dom because he's the only place in europe that you can get a flight controller from so
[2960.06] Stephen: You know trying to skate uphill against the competition and low costs in china. Yeah, let's give him an a
[2967.1] Stephen: all right
[2969.26] Koel: Mads tax trying to put in cadex above dji seriously ballsy move
[2974.54] Koel: Easy to complain about dji. I oh
[2977.82] Koel: And I do know anyone they're top of their game and do sort customers out
[2981.5] Stephen: Strong but if we're talking about fpv
[2985.42] Stephen: Then dji is just trying to tell fpv what it should be and not listening to what fpv wants from the products
[2992.54] Stephen: i'm sure they're great if you're a photography person, but
[2996.7] Stephen: But when you put them against fpv brands like cadex who have a dialogue with their customers
[3003.58] Stephen: Dji have a brick wall you can shout at
[3008.35] Jack: I mean mad techs
[3010.91] Jack: We can be wrong
[3012.91] Jack: We our opinions can be totally invalid
[3016.67] Jack: If you want buddy, send me a message on discord
[3020.51] Jack: I will
[3022.11] Jack: I can share this link and go through the list. I'd love to hear what you think
[3027.63] Koel: Well, the other thing too is I mean the name of this video this live stream is rating fpv brand. So
[3035.23] Koel: We did encapsulate
[3037.07] Koel: The photography side of the of it even though the the title is fpv brand. So
[3043.15] Koel: We are kind of like, you know
[3045.63] Koel: teeter tottering on that fence, but
[3048.35] Stephen: Mads makes a good point. I think if you were to talk about photography drones, they'd have to be s
[3052.83] Stephen: But when you talk about fpv against an fpv backdrop, they can't be s
[3058.27] Stephen: Yeah, but do cadex tell the truth
[3061.15] Koel: Well does anyone yeah next okay. We got five minutes
[3065.55] Stephen: serious
[3067.23] Jack: I've never heard of them
[3069.23] Jack: No, I haven't
[3070.99] Koel: Unknown
[3072.11] Koel: next
[3073.31] Koel: What is that?
[3074.99] Jack: A toolkit. I see isn't it?
[3077.87] Koel: No toolkit. I see is later on
[3080.19] Stephen: TCM mrc. I thought curry might have a oh great curry's dropped now
[3084.91] Stephen: So they were doing a whole bunch of cheap quads, which I thought curry might have heard of
[3089.15] Stephen: Um, they do cheap bind and flies
[3090.99] Stephen: I think they're kind of similar to what dalwin fpv is doing but cheaper if you look at albert kim
[3097.15] Stephen: He's reviewed a bunch of them and you can you know buy a five inch for kind of 180 american
[3103.39] Stephen: um
[3104.43] Stephen: The u.s
[3105.55] Stephen: Yeah, but they're not very well heard of at all and obviously for low price. You don't get great components
[3112.99] Stephen: I know
[3114.35] Stephen: D permanent d. Remember e actually put e probably there because it is like bargain bin
[3120.11] Stephen: It's like the isheen wizard level of quality, you know
[3123.47] Jack: Okay, I know
[3124.99] Jack: spedex
[3126.43] Jack: speedix
[3128.03] Jack: Yeah, they're pretty solid. They've got to be near. Yeah, right. I've used them b
[3132.67] Jack: yeah, see
[3135.15] Jack: B um good good eses menace
[3138.91] Koel: S tier
[3140.35] Koel: That's yeah. Yeah
[3142.35] Jack: just
[3143.71] Stephen: Listening to the community and actually getting feedback and putting it directly into products
[3149.31] Jack: great antennas
[3151.15] Jack: Branching out making stuff that filling holes in the market
[3156.59] Jack: respect fossil
[3159.55] Stephen: No, I don't even got tony on here i'm sure tony would say he's pretty great
[3164.19] Stephen: And he's there at the events talking to people which is nice. I'll give him an a I don't know
[3169.63] Stephen: I'd give him a b. It's just like not
[3172.99] Stephen: I don't know. You don't so so tell us why you think it's
[3177.39] Stephen: Talk about it. And if you persuade us it's a b we'll leave it there. And if not we'll can move on
[3182.83] Stephen: Why do you think it's a b?
[3185.23] Jack: um, they're not
[3187.15] Jack: They're not making like, you know
[3190.51] Jack: Uh, you know new new frames. They haven't kept up
[3194.35] Jack: You know i'd love to have seen new designs from them. I admit a yeah fine
[3200.11] Jack: But b as in they're not making the designs they've gone over to x class
[3204.83] Jack: there's just
[3206.59] Jack: You know the development's just a bit slow
[3209.87] Jack: customer service
[3211.55] Jack: S all day long marty and personal friend of mine all day long
[3216.11] Stephen: I just I did look at their frames and I thought these look interesting, but the sort of frames
[3221.47] Stephen: I would have seen sort of 2017 2018
[3224.99] Jack: Yeah 2016 2017
[3226.99] Jack: I just want I I just want to give them a bit
[3231.31] Jack: Give them a b to like give him a kick up the ass
[3234.67] Jack: So that he's to say try something new
[3237.95] Jack: Yeah, I just want a fire output
[3241.39] Jack: That's all
[3242.67] Stephen: Like i'm, sorry marty. Maybe he's just having fun and he's just racing his stuff and he uh hasn't got the energy to go
[3248.59] Jack: Whipping up new designs, you know and just little things like, you know
[3254.59] Jack: He has taken my feedback after I scream at him
[3258.27] Jack: so
[3259.31] Jack: He's definitely
[3260.99] Jack: He's a really strong b
[3263.87] Jack: But if you make a new five inch frame you go up
[3267.71] Jack: Time
[3269.07] Koel: So we've done a few there
[3271.95] Stephen: Azure props, I guess they're up there with probably hq where oh, yeah true. Is there anything to tell them apart from hq?
[3280.43] Koel: They don't really know much about them. I actually have a pack of them. I've never flown them before
[3285.23] Stephen: dal prop
[3286.67] Stephen: I mean again with
[3288.67] Stephen: Hq azure dal. I think they're all roughly interchangeable. They're all pretty solid. They're heavier
[3296.7] Jack: So they you know, they did bring the first indestructible
[3301.58] Stephen: I I I couldn't think what would tell them apart from the others to be honest like gem fan and that I don't know
[3308.46] Stephen: Oh, man, I think the prop guys mostly have it completely down pat. They're not doing anything wrong
[3315.5] Jack: Didn't we do
[3319.18] Jack: Yeah, all right a
[3321.34] Jack: they're in a
[3323.98] Jack: Is dt
[3325.9] Jack: Coles had one smoke
[3328.62] Koel: Tony's had a load of them. So I never had an isdt. I had I had toolkit. I see
[3334.22] Stephen: Oh, i've got an htrc. I think yeah
[3337.98] Jack: isdt
[3339.18] Jack: I think i've been pretty good at going
[3341.5] Stephen: Yes, i've had an imax before everyone's had the imax b6, right?
[3347.58] Jack: Yeah, all right. I've moved fossil back up to a
[3350.54] Jack: A
[3352.54] Jack: Solid b
[3354.54] Jack: a a I reckon they're an a oh for beta
[3359.18] Stephen: mads
[3361.02] Stephen: You you you haven't seen that we've got jg mcu on here already, mate
[3365.82] Stephen: Like we could just we just put them right next to there
[3368.54] Stephen: Just just just park that right in line with jg mcu
[3373.02] Koel: Or even lower than them, right? I think we did beat fp. I have had a nice fire with beta fpv
[3379.1] Stephen: I've did we do it last few years? Yeah, i'm pretty sure we did
[3382.38] Stephen: Let me put them in the dark shade. Yeah. Oh, they were on e yeah, you're right next to frisky frisky frisky
[3391.26] Stephen: I can't stop putting them frisky now because i'm a member of the uh, what's it called frisky fan club discord?
[3398.62] Stephen: Because that was their original name, right?
[3400.7] Stephen: Before they had an english speaking person look at it and went maybe don't do that
[3406.46] Stephen: but
[3407.82] Stephen: skyrc
[3411.13] Stephen: That's the one you've got that giant thing. Yeah, I think that looks looks like a beast personally
[3416.97] Koel: Yeah, they make that big uh, that big black one and I hear it's good
[3423.53] Koel: Yeah, does that look like a little wheel on the back or something like wheels
[3428.41] Jack: no
[3430.09] Jack: On the designer looks like sky the skyrc. I mean they're not
[3435.13] Jack: They're really I think I think they're an a I think they're a solid a
[3440.01] Jack: Don't they make that quattro right? That's the one right? Yeah. Yeah. I think they're a solid a somehow
[3447.29] Stephen: Richard's dt are pretty good as well killed one
[3450.97] Stephen: Yeah
[3452.65] Stephen: I've got htrc
[3454.89] Stephen: Um, but I don't have a logo for them mine's been really solid, but I don't think they're that well known a brand
[3460.97] Stephen: toolkit
[3462.97] Stephen: Toolkit wasn't that the one where cyclone?
[3466.41] Stephen: The was it cyclone fpv the store who like looked at the entire stock of charges and they all had electrical faults
[3472.65] Koel: Like 20 different toolkit rc charges. Okay, so I can chime in here because basically I have a b6
[3479.69] Koel: And I have two toolkits
[3483.05] Koel: uh
[3483.93] Koel: I have the one little single toolkit one and it works. I think it's the
[3489.61] Koel: The the whatever the ac I can't remember which one it is but um
[3494.65] Koel: There's supposed to be a light that comes up on it
[3496.89] Koel: Well, that doesn't really work but the charger works fine
[3500.33] Koel: And then the first toolkit rc when I had well
[3503.13] Koel: it just randomly stopped working one day and it was like the first day I got it and
[3509.77] Koel: I mean I got a replacement for it and an upgrade and it's been fine ever since so
[3514.33] Koel: Yeah, i'd say you know b or c
[3516.97] Stephen: Yeah, you want to have a vendor you can go back to the one of those brands like yeah
[3520.73] Stephen: You can buy it
[3521.61] Stephen: But you need somewhere to go back to to do the inevitable swap on one out of every four products. Yeah. Yeah
[3528.57] Jack: see
[3530.41] Stephen: I can't add it. It's png frank had one that wasn't sold it up correctly. I mean
[3537.61] Koel: Yeah, immersion rc they're pretty top is
[3543.61] Koel: I mean they're tramps. I like their tramps
[3546.81] Stephen: Um, are they what are they doing now? Are they just did he basically sell the logo to orca?
[3553.85] Jack: Yeah, they think that was orca. They've made the newest thing. They've made is they've made a better
[3560.15] Jack: ay
[3561.21] Jack: analog racing
[3563.45] Jack: time system
[3565.61] Jack: That's nice
[3566.81] Jack: the
[3568.09] Jack: the
[3569.53] Jack: the uh
[3572.49] Jack: Oh, what was it called the head you know the the dvr thing power play that's there that's come back into stock
[3581.85] Jack: um
[3582.81] Jack: ghost is amazing
[3585.21] Jack: but the
[3587.21] Koel: none of the lewis script works is it goes that relevant anymore though in the days of
[3594.01] Koel: Of 2023
[3597.21] Stephen: The lewis script for ghost doesn't work on htx you mean
[3601.13] Jack: Yeah, you know so you can't you know go into
[3605.37] Jack: Well, I I haven't found a way where you could you know, like the lewis scripts in your radio
[3610.97] Jack: Where you could change settings
[3614.25] Jack: On your radio transmitter. Yeah on the transmitter. I don't that's what i'm missing. I wish kiss ultra
[3621.93] Jack: like
[3622.73] Stephen: Oh, you mean to change the quad settings so you like get a menu for the pits and things right?
[3627.93] Stephen: Yeah, the reason that has been added in the latest version of beta flight, but what they had to do was to add
[3636.31] Stephen: Multi-we serial protocol encapsulation for the ghst protocol, right?
[3641.53] Stephen: Because trappy added it for crossfire years ago
[3645.29] Stephen: And obviously that means it just works for things like express lrs
[3648.89] Stephen: But it it now works for express lrs because we found that there was a buffer thing
[3653.13] Stephen: I was like I want this to work. So I went to the express lrs devs
[3656.25] Stephen: And went why is it not working and they're like, oh it's sending data too fast
[3659.85] Stephen: And then it went to the beta flight guys and went it's sending data too fast. Can we like
[3663.69] Stephen: Stop that and they went uh, and then what we don't know if it's express lrs or crossfire
[3668.25] Stephen: So then I went to the express lrs guys and like how can we tell her it's express lrs and not crossfire?
[3672.57] Stephen: No, there's a serial number. Okay
[3674.57] Stephen: So the long and the short of it it's easier to fix up on crsf because that's been around for a while
[3680.65] Stephen: On ghost that's a relatively new addition, but it should start to filter down. It's not impossible
[3686.33] Stephen: It's just taking time to get through the software
[3689.05] Koel: Okay. Yeah, I think a is is is fair for immersion. Do you want to read dom's comment?
[3696.41] Koel: If something from immersion rc isn't good, it's not because they didn't try that's a fact
[3701.05] Koel: Yeah, that's cool. Yeah
[3703.69] Stephen: Yeah
[3705.85] Jack: Wrong
[3706.97] Jack: Yeah, that's strong strong. Hey
[3709.37] Jack: Yeah, you know
[3711.37] Stephen: I'd be tempted to put them higher. I mean I think ace
[3715.13] Koel: Yeah, let's put them at the top. Yeah, they're that's pretty high up man. They got they got a they have a they've got
[3720.01] Koel: Some great great products over the years
[3723.05] Stephen: I can't I mean you can be nitpicking about ghost but compared to tracer. I mean it's just a different league from tracer, isn't it?
[3730.89] Stephen: hobby king
[3732.97] Koel: Well, that's a story, right
[3735.77] Stephen: Yeah, they might be king and their giant metal container of dangerous
[3740.97] Jack: I wouldn't put them e see i'd say they're a
[3744.79] Stephen: Reasonable c so is turnigy a hobby king brand if we say hobby king, do we mean turnigy?
[3751.45] Stephen: Because i've got a bunch of turnigy lipos
[3753.93] Stephen: I mean I when I started out in the hobby
[3756.09] Stephen: They were the lipos you could buy if you wanted something cheap. So i've got an absolute ton of them
[3761.61] Stephen: um
[3763.69] Stephen: Yeah, that's fair enough bees. All right. Yeah a lot of them puffed out. I don't think they're great, but they did the job
[3770.65] Stephen: Tbs yes
[3773.93] Stephen: S
[3774.97] Koel: I would say a
[3776.97] Stephen: There's been a lot of them
[3778.49] Stephen: Right the last two radios they released have constant gimbal problems and then tracer is just
[3785.45] Stephen: Not what it could be compared to ghost
[3787.77] Koel: I
[3789.45] Stephen: Want to see it definitely not. Yes, i'd say I want to say they're the top but
[3794.25] Koel: There are a few different things. I guess that you could nitpick but
[3799.37] Stephen: Crossfire is good. It's just like they've got they've got gimbals on the pcb for their radios and the gimbals just
[3807.45] Stephen: Drift and then you try and recalibrate them and mads knows this like
[3812.17] Stephen: I mean i'm calibrating the gimbals
[3814.97] Koel: I I have a tango too and I haven't really had that kind of issue like I mean
[3820.49] Stephen: Matt's had an issue when he moved the gimbal from 100 percent and as it went through the zero point down
[3827.45] Stephen: Below the halfway mark
[3829.45] Stephen: The value that the gimbal reported like jumped to 100 percent and then back to 50 and then back to 49
[3836.49] Koel: Yeah, i've never had that issue. I mean
[3839.29] Koel: I I did have an issue recently where I was like, oh, you know
[3842.33] Koel: What I haven't calibrated my gimbals in a while. So I decided to do it again and you know
[3848.17] Koel: You have to be kind of be gentle when you do it because
[3850.97] Koel: Because it's like plastic and whatever, right?
[3852.81] Koel: So if you if you kind of push it too hard
[3855.69] Koel: In the in the corner or whatever
[3857.69] Koel: Well, then once you get once you get around to it
[3860.09] Koel: It might not actually go back to 100 in whether it's the bottom of the corner or the left
[3864.97] Stephen: So you see i've not had that problem at all with radio master. I've just beat the snot out of those things
[3872.49] Jack: Yeah, they've added the new machine gimbals. I would say
[3876.49] Jack: they're
[3877.45] Jack: a borderline s
[3880.73] Stephen: But so i've had tracer and tracer just irritated me like it didn't it did not live up to the hype
[3888.25] Stephen: I felt like i'd been sold a line when I bought bought into tracer and I got like five receivers
[3894.01] Stephen: And they're all out of the quads and just sitting in a plastic bag. I've got a nano and a full size tracer tx
[3901.93] Stephen: And they're just sitting there wondering, you know, what am I going to do with these now?
[3907.42] Koel: well
[3908.3] Koel: Yeah, I mean
[3910.46] Jack: You gotta remember those push buttons are the worst thing ever to happen to rc remote
[3915.98] Koel: They've done so much for the hobby though. You gotta remember like
[3919.34] Stephen: They've done. Yeah, but then you could say that a lot of other people like gem fan and people
[3923.82] Stephen: I don't think they deserve to go up into s. Um, no, no, no, definitely not s but
[3928.78] Stephen: I'd say the only brand that has their own line of weed grinders. I mean there's that
[3935.18] Jack: I
[3936.54] Jack: That's dear for me. It was it was the
[3939.98] Jack: the fail safe in with crossfire
[3943.18] Jack: In an open field that pissed me off and i've seen you fail safe twice for no reason
[3950.38] Koel: Well, no, the reason was I had my radio set to the wrong region
[3954.62] Jack: Oh, okay
[3955.9] Jack: Do you reckon s then?
[3957.9] Koel: No, no, no, I would still say that tbs is a leave it in a
[3962.14] Jack: A is flattering them. I think this is just okay
[3965.74] Jack: Right quick fire round rush
[3969.34] Jack: Vtx is a good things
[3971.42] Jack: a
[3972.22] Jack: b
[3973.82] Stephen: Yeah, I want them in a they're pretty good curry. Yeah, we really need curry there
[3978.22] Koel: But I think they've done some cracking stuff. Here comes some some controversial ones now or some tea
[3984.7] Jack: Hey
[3986.14] Stephen: Um fat tech fat tech. I haven't built them yet. I did have like the worst
[3993.18] Stephen: Worst experience when I went onto their discord
[3995.98] Stephen: That's just like massive fan boyism and trolling. That was not good
[4001.18] Koel: Yeah, fat tech. That's a tough one because
[4005.64] Koel: I I don't actually i've never used their stuff. So I don't know enough but
[4009.8] Koel: You just hear about a lot of their stuff. Maybe people calling it fry tech
[4013.88] Koel: Or like, you know saying that their stuff burns up or just like it's like a religion
[4019.72] Koel: That's all so it's a faith-based firmware. It's a really weird thing, especially with the whole kiss and fat tech, you know
[4028.28] Koel: Butting heads and whatever. I mean, I don't know if they actually buy heads
[4030.92] Stephen: But it's kind of like so jack have you flown fat tech because you've flown a bunch of kiss ultra stuff
[4036.84] Jack: I've flown their eses
[4039.4] Jack: And I get garbage out of their telemetry
[4043.72] Jack: um
[4045.0] Jack: I you know, like I'd that annoys me. Um, they've changed the
[4051.72] Jack: They've changed their
[4056.78] Jack: Accelerometer or whatever and people getting noise now
[4060.56] Koel: Um, so now they have they're trying to get away from kiss. They're almost doing their own alpha firmware stuff. Yeah
[4068.8] Jack: B I reckon but like that's being nice
[4073.36] Stephen: Well, we have from crunk tier fat tech is trash tier kiss
[4078.56] Stephen: Uh, yeah, I kind of agree, you know that
[4082.4] Stephen: They're trying to that. These are the guys that are made by holy bro, right?
[4086.32] Stephen: And it's nice that there's more firmware out there. There's variety for people who want to try the variety but
[4093.12] Koel: Yeah, but then again isn't um
[4097.84] Koel: What's the guy's name who does who's the original kiss guy that uh
[4102.0] Koel: Felix Felix got Felix Nielsen. I'm the wife of Simon. Um
[4106.56] Koel: He's the credit guy, right? So yeah
[4110.0] Koel: Yeah, I don't know. It's just a weird and they've got that alpha firmware which is
[4115.68] Stephen: Showing promise, you know, it's it's nice that there's an evolution and people not just staying where they were but
[4122.16] Stephen: I've yet to build it and it's going to be
[4124.56] Stephen: An absolute trial by fire because it's going to be a 10s five inch
[4129.28] Stephen: So if anything does go wrong flames are going to happen. Yeah
[4137.2] Koel: Flies fat tech
[4139.44] Koel: Steel flies fat tech. I don't know
[4142.48] Koel: how many other people fly fat tech but
[4144.72] Koel: You know, there's people who seem to love it and who ran for the rave about it and it works for them
[4150.56] Koel: But I guess like that could go with any brand right? It's like right
[4154.24] Jack: The only the only person I'd move team over
[4158.8] Jack: I know any arguments video aerial systems
[4163.04] Jack: Uh, was it this weird transphobic comments? Yeah, it's not doing so
[4168.0] Jack: If transphobic you're d
[4170.72] Jack: Uh z z's pretty strong
[4174.08] Jack: Ab yeah with rush. I think go up there with rush right brain fpv
[4179.84] Stephen: Never heard of them. What do they do?
[4182.08] Jack: All right. No, no idea either. Okay, that's it
[4185.6] Stephen: No, you're asking for the brain fpv logo. I thought you had a comment on brain fpv. No, I don't
[4192.4] Stephen: They're the ones that um
[4194.24] Stephen: That dom did his didn't he do a pixel osd for them or something or yeah
[4200.88] Stephen: They used the software
[4202.88] Koel: I thought uh video aerial systems would be higher
[4205.92] Stephen: Let's leave them leave them down unknown because I I don't own one
[4209.28] Stephen: Maybe if curry owns some of the things down in the u-tier we can reevaluate later
[4214.16] Stephen: Let's yeah, put brain fpv down there because
[4217.76] Koel: What what yeah and video aerial system should not be that low. They are like pretty god tier almost aren't they?
[4225.44] Stephen: Yeah, I mean he got he got snacked down for being just an absolute a
[4232.08] Stephen: Right good good equipment, but the guy doesn't know when to uh, bite his lip
[4237.92] Stephen: Yeah
[4239.92] Koel: Yeah, good. You know, I like their mad mushroom. I liked their
[4244.8] Stephen: What was it? Yeah
[4247.52] Stephen: I be crazy, right?
[4249.36] Stephen: Yeah, I was educated recently that I be crazy is is the guy and i've got you know
[4254.8] Stephen: A bunch of the original tvs triumphs kicking around they're good, but the guy who makes them
[4261.04] Stephen: Isn't a great person maybe
[4263.84] Koel: C is kind of like but if we're judging based on character, that's not really like
[4269.2] Koel: A way to judge a beat I guess
[4271.44] Koel: Yes, I think that's fair. I mean I would put it to a but but b is a good happy medium
[4279.42] Jack: All right, b
[4281.34] Jack: Right. That is all we got time for. Thank you. Uh, you have been joined by everyone's favorite curry kitten who's left early
[4290.14] Jack: steven
[4291.42] Jack: Good night. Fairly. Well
[4293.98] Jack: my buddy kyle
[4296.06] Jack: See it
[4297.58] Jack: And i've been bright until I fly this show has been sponsored and
[4302.86] Jack: uh
[4304.54] Jack: Supported by our lovely patreons. It keeps the show
[4309.24] Jack: impartial
[4310.62] Jack: Let's just talk more freely
[4312.7] Jack: If you've got a couple of dollars come join, we do bonus shows and everything we're live
[4318.86] Jack: every thursday 8 to 9 p.m. UK time
[4323.34] Jack: Uh, we would be nowhere without these lovely
[4326.92] Jack: Patreons, we love you guys
[4328.92] Jack: Thank you, thank you patreons good night telemetry loss