=== Let's Drone Out — Episode 421 ===
Title: LDO 421 - Dutch Angle Thursdays
Recorded: 2023-09-21
Hosts: Stephen "Belrik" Howell, Wayne "CurryKitten" Andrews, Jack "Brightontillifly" Nash, Andrew "Frank" Hyams
Guest(s): (none recorded)
Total audience: 1,146
Platforms: YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOUoJMNnp2o); SoundCloud (http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/feeds.soundcloud.com/stream/1622948403-letsdroneout-ldo-421-dutch-angle-thursdays.mp3)
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#LetsDroneOut #Podcast #UK #FPV #FPVDronePodcast

[0.0] Jack: Hello! And you're listening to Let's Drone Out, a special thank you to our lovely patrons that help donate so that we can pay the editor to remove the swear words and silly things we say. Massive thank you to...
[14.0] Jack: Carlos Campos!
[16.0] Frank: Art Faulkner!
[18.0] Frank: Sam Dahmer!
[20.0] Curry: On with the show!
[22.0] Stephen: Hello everyone and welcome to another week of Let's Drone Out.
[55.32] Stephen: You're joined this week by everyone's favourite, Curry Kitten.
[59.32] Stephen: Hello!
[60.32] Stephen: The ever-present, the spectacular Jack, aka Bright Until I Fly.
[64.32] Jack: Meow!
[65.32] Stephen: And myself, the dude with the silly moustache, Stephen. Hello everyone!
[69.32] Stephen: Sure.
[70.32] Stephen: So, what have we been up to this week?
[72.32] Curry: Well, you've brought a new camera, which is where we all changed our camera angles out of respect.
[78.32] Curry: Yeah, let's do it.
[79.32] Curry: For the new, high-definition Stephen.
[81.32] Stephen: Yeah, for guidance from our Lord and Master, Andrew slash Frank, I obtained a cheap second-hand Panasonic Lumix GH3 body off the Ebays and spent quite a while messing around.
[96.32] Stephen: I've not gone the usual route.
[98.32] Stephen: I have a Cam Link, but the Cam Link is here, unused, because it's going into a Blackmagic mini recorder, which is a PCI Express card, which doesn't need to compress stuff so much.
[112.32] Stephen: And then there's some magic with FFmpeg that makes it look like a webcam, and some extra magic that makes it not only look like a webcam, but one of the very select formats of webcam that Google Chrome chooses to pay attention to.
[127.32] Stephen: So, that was a miniature project this week, but I think the results are nice.
[131.32] Stephen: And from this wonderful low angle, because it's stuck on a GorillaPod instead of mounted where I should have it, you can't see any of the crap in my room, which is amazing.
[139.32] Stephen: You wouldn't know that there's piles of half-built crap and graphics cards and PC power supplies. They're all just beautifully out of shot there. It's wonderful.
[147.32] Stephen: I think it's quite an achievement, personally.
[149.32] Curry: You're doing well. My new angle reveals more crap on the floor.
[153.32] Stephen: Curry's actually gone through the cleanliness phase that we must all tolerate, and now he's back into the how can I fix all this stuff phase.
[162.32] Stephen: So, what have you been up to then?
[165.92] Curry: Nothing. That's just clean up crap to get rid of, actually. That's really old stuff.
[169.92] Curry: I must just interrupt proceedings to get myself a quick drink, and this is mostly to wind Jack up. This is my drink of choice. Can you just see that little thing there?
[181.92] Jack: Can you see that, Jack?
[183.92] Curry: No.
[184.92] Curry: So, Jack has eaten so many Kit Kats the wrong way. I thought the only thing I could do is try and wind him up by having the world's most exclusive beer.
[195.92] Curry: This is, of course, Giga beer from Tesla.
[200.92] Curry: And I have to thank Caroline, actually. Who's in the chat? You've donated this for me.
[205.92] Stephen: Curry, for all you viewers, is holding a box up containing three items that are not un-reminiscent of the sort of awards they give out at marketing ceremonies each year, looking like some kind of obelisk.
[219.92] Curry: He does look like an obelisk. I'm going to taste it. This is Giga beer. Very exclusive.
[229.38] Jack: Let's have a taste.
[230.38] Jack: Why does it look like a dildo?
[233.76] Stephen: Man, you must have a very accommodating posterior.
[238.76] Jack: All sorts of things, not mine.
[240.76] Curry: There's a slight saltiness to it, but I think what happens is Elon himself does a little jizz in it, and that's why it's so exclusive.
[249.76] Stephen: Oh, right. Okay. It's all the sweat and the tears that go into it would probably give it a salty characteristic.
[255.76] Curry: Yes.
[256.76] Curry: What Caroline is saying is it's supposed to look like a Cybertruck.
[261.76] Curry: These were the exclusive things made when they built the Gigafactory in Germany.
[266.76] Stephen: And the idea is it does sound like a lot of old tosh. The more you say it, the less I'm taking this seriously.
[275.76] Curry: It's a Gigatruck.
[278.76] Curry: It's very bizarre. It tastes like beer, but salty beer.
[283.76] Curry: That was my joke about the Elon passengers, but there you go.
[286.76] Curry: Okay. All right.
[292.02] Curry: It's not bad.
[293.02] Stephen: Yeah.
[294.02] Stephen: What is it? Is it a lager?
[295.02] Stephen: It looks jet black, but I'm guessing it's not stout because the black bit doesn't move when you pour it.
[300.02] Curry: No, it is a lager.
[304.02] Curry: It's quite light, really.
[306.02] Curry: You can see it.
[307.02] Curry: Oh, yeah.
[308.02] Curry: Yeah.
[309.02] Curry: It is a bit wee-wee-colored, but it is beer after all.
[314.46] Curry: So there you go, Jack.
[315.46] Curry: Exclusive Tesla beer.
[317.46] Curry: Not for you because you don't like Teslas.
[319.46] Curry: Nice.
[320.46] Stephen: I'm enjoying an old-fashioned myself.
[323.46] Jack: You will receive a photo from me and you're not going to like it.
[328.46] Curry: I picked my old-fashioned with needs out of it.
[332.46] Curry: That's quite frightening.
[333.46] Curry: I've had photos from Jack before.
[335.46] Curry: I had to unsubscribe from the Jack's photos.
[338.46] Stephen: Yeah, I imagine you're anxiously seeing if there's going to be any on-device scanning for your iPhone after that photo.
[344.46] Stephen: Yeah.
[345.46] Stephen: You're going to check the news.
[347.46] Stephen: I was going to say that Curry was very helpful and corrected me for being both stupid and wrong last week.
[353.46] Stephen: Hands up for my error here.
[355.46] Stephen: Because I assumed that Unity wouldn't do anything that was quite as stupid and developer-hostile as they in fact have done.
[362.46] Stephen: So do you want to walk us through this whole big mess that we have now uncovered?
[369.46] Curry: Yeah.
[370.46] Curry: I don't blame you for where you were coming from because you were taking the very sort of like,
[374.46] Curry: well, they wouldn't do that because that would be ridiculous.
[377.46] Curry: But they were absolutely ridiculous.
[379.46] Curry: What Unity, the game engine attempted to do was change their EULA, remove their terms of service from their GitHub repository
[392.46] Curry: and just say, oh, we're just going to charge everybody an install fee for...
[399.46] Curry: And there were limits to it.
[401.46] Curry: You had to have 200,000 installs and 200,000 in lifetime revenue.
[405.46] Curry: But that wasn't kind of the point.
[406.46] Curry: The point was, A, they just changed it on a whim.
[410.46] Curry: B, when it was asked, how are you going to measure installs, they said, well, we've got our own proprietary technology to do it,
[418.46] Curry: which is meaning that people multiple install it or delete it and reinstall it.
[422.46] Curry: It counts as a charge.
[423.46] Curry: People pirating, it counts as a charge.
[425.46] Curry: And the fact they were going to monitor it themselves sounded like they were going to install more well on your computer.
[430.46] Curry: Essentially, to do it.
[432.46] Curry: So I don't know if you've been looking at the fallout from it, but some major developers have just been like, no, we're not doing this anymore.
[440.46] Curry: We don't care if you roll it back.
[443.46] Curry: We're out.
[444.46] Curry: We're changing game engines.
[446.46] Stephen: Yeah, once you've lost developers' trust, like, they don't want to be kicked twice.
[451.46] Stephen: Yeah.
[452.46] Stephen: I mean, they see a multi-year project, can't it?
[455.46] Stephen: Like, if someone was about to ship a game, the new license terms have completely changed their possibilities of how much revenue they can earn from that game.
[465.46] Stephen: The ease of longevity of the code, it's just thrown everything up in the air.
[469.46] Stephen: And it's shown unity to be someone that when they say they're going to do something in 2022, you can't trust them to follow through on that in 2023,
[479.46] Stephen: because they have in the past stated that they wouldn't do what they've just gone and done.
[484.46] Curry: Exactly.
[485.46] Curry: So for people, even for people thinking, oh, they're going to roll it back, they're now like, well, what if they change their minds again?
[493.46] Curry: And they're doing it retroactively.
[495.46] Curry: So you clearly said like, oh, well, they're not going to do it on the version you've got because this is like a new license.
[501.46] Curry: So they're saying if you released a game five years ago using the engine, and it now generates this many sales, which many, many things do.
[510.46] Curry: There's many sort of old things that are still generating a lot of installs and stuff.
[515.46] Curry: They want to charge you for that.
[517.46] Curry: Yeah.
[518.46] Curry: The latest leaked news to Bloomberg is they're going to roll it back and say, we're just going to charge a 4% flat royalty on sales beyond a million dollars.
[528.46] Curry: And developers are going to self-report that.
[530.46] Curry: So at this point, so many people have left that it's...
[536.46] Stephen: And what's the motivation, right?
[538.46] Stephen: You struggled quite a lot, I think, with input and other things.
[541.46] Stephen: And we look at Unreal.
[543.46] Stephen: It seems every year there's another glorious tech demo that comes out running on kind of constrained hardware on consoles that achieves some quite stellar performance.
[551.46] Stephen: And a lot of Unity projects are the type of I've got two minutes waiting for a bus type mobile games.
[559.46] Stephen: Really?
[560.46] Stephen: They're not hitting the heights that Unreal has.
[563.46] Curry: No, there's no AAA titles.
[567.46] Curry: There's some very big titles, very popular ones that have been released using the engine.
[572.46] Curry: But they're not at the cutting edge.
[574.46] Curry: The reason I used it initially, because I was on my older computer and when I tried to run Unreal, it just...
[580.46] Curry: No.
[581.46] Curry: And so Unity was it.
[582.46] Curry: But Unity is very good at cross-platform development.
[586.46] Curry: So I could literally take all the code and assets that I developed on the Mac and just said, now make it for Windows.
[594.46] Curry: Now make it for Linux.
[596.46] Curry: And with some, quite a lot of tweaking, in fact, for Android and iOS.
[602.46] Curry: And that was...
[603.46] Stephen: I was very excited to see the Linux version.
[604.46] Stephen: I was like, oh, wow.
[605.46] Stephen: And it pretty much just ran.
[607.46] Stephen: I think we hit like a corner case where some of the fancy renderers didn't work, but that was fixed fairly quickly, wasn't it?
[613.46] Curry: Yeah.
[614.46] Curry: So where Unreal is fantastic is the high tech stuff.
[617.46] Curry: It's not so good at cross-platform because it wants to mostly sort of compile native stuff,
[625.46] Curry: which means you're sort of, oh, I have to go get myself Windows PC to make this or the Unix or Linux to do something.
[632.46] Curry: And the really good technology like Nanite rendering is only available.
[637.46] Curry: They built it to DirectX 12, essentially.
[641.46] Curry: So you want it on Vulkan, you need it on Metal, you even need it on OpenGL to be perfectly cross-platform.
[648.46] Curry: So that's why I've held back not doing anything on it.
[651.46] Curry: I wanted Nanite for Mac so I could be truly cross-platform on it, but it's not at the moment.
[659.46] Stephen: Well, is there something like DXVK you can target?
[661.46] Stephen: Because I'm playing a lot of DX12 games on Linux and there's a translation layer that just bungs it all into Vulkan called DXVK
[668.46] Stephen: that Valve, the people who run Steam have kind of sponsored and made sure is fit for purpose.
[675.46] Stephen: And that's what's enabling the Steam Deck, for example, because the Steam Deck is a little Linux handheld.
[680.46] Stephen: And it does that so it doesn't have to pay a Windows license fee.
[683.46] Stephen: It doesn't have the privacy problems of Windows, doesn't have the driver problems of Windows.
[689.46] Stephen: But it does have to emulate all the games so that it can't run DirectX.
[693.46] Stephen: It's got to convert things to Vulkan and it manages to do it on a pretty basic CPU.
[699.46] Curry: I could take a look at that.
[701.46] Curry: The only other thing with Unreal, it's not particularly lightweight.
[704.46] Curry: So whereas my sim ran on like old potato PCs, I think moving to Unreal makes it more of a problem.
[713.46] Curry: The current plan on the sim is like I started this race stuff, which I will finish off on Unity and release.
[721.46] Curry: And I think that would probably be it.
[723.46] Curry: The next project is trying to be a more general game that I want to make, which is going to be in 2D,
[731.46] Curry: which again, Unreal doesn't move particularly well.
[733.46] Curry: So that's probably going to be on Godot or Godot have you pronounce it.
[738.46] Curry: And then if I do something else in 3D, then that go over to Unreal.
[743.46] Stephen: Yeah, I was wondering in terms of performance, how much of that is the engine itself
[747.46] Stephen: and how much of it is the availability of these nanite and other fantastic terrain tools,
[752.46] Stephen: which you could use, but maybe you don't have to use if you just want to create a city
[756.46] Stephen: that is a bunch of like square buildings with textures painted on them.
[761.46] Curry: Oh, yeah.
[762.46] Curry: I mean, the idea of nanite and the people that don't know, nanite is an idea of rendering
[768.46] Curry: where the level of detail is automatically done.
[770.46] Curry: So if you have this amazing scene with millions of polygons, then it will say,
[776.46] Curry: okay, well, that rock only needs four polygons because it's that far out.
[779.46] Curry: Previously, you would have had to create multiple models to do that previously.
[783.46] Curry: So it allows me to be kind of lazy and just like stick high res rocks on without really thinking about it.
[789.46] Curry: That's kind of the idea is what I've had to do in the current thing is go back,
[796.46] Curry: especially when I was like looking to convert to mobile,
[799.46] Curry: where we had memory constraints is look at like how much texture memory we were taking up
[805.46] Curry: and changing things around here and there and it's changing bits and bobs around until it worked.
[810.46] Stephen: Didn't you in fact have a procedural terrain generator at one point when you were testing things out
[816.46] Stephen: and some of those terrain generators were so resource intensive,
[820.46] Stephen: you had to just forgo them and go for more basic options.
[823.46] Curry: Yeah, I tested out a whole bunch and they put like, oh, let's put one billion blades of grass in your scene
[828.46] Curry: and have it wave around in the wind and doesn't matter how far away you are.
[832.46] Curry: We're still going to draw them perfectly and then you get about four frames a second.
[837.46] Curry: So yeah, a lot of stuff got chucked out because it wasn't fit for purpose.
[843.46] Curry: I used one of them, which was pretty good at creating a map and then basically you just go in
[848.46] Curry: and take out all the bits that are sort of all singing or dancing that you don't want
[853.46] Curry: and then change it to what you need.
[857.46] Stephen: Back to the latest legal contract stuff, so they said they'd never changed the terms
[863.46] Stephen: and then they changed them and they deleted the old version so you couldn't haul them over the coals on it.
[868.46] Stephen: But apparently there's a pass if developers specifically those doing mobile
[873.46] Stephen: are happy to enable the telemetry service and send all of their user data to Unity,
[878.46] Stephen: then they can get a free pass on the licensing.
[881.46] Stephen: It feels like they just can't find a big enough shovel for this whole.
[886.46] Curry: Yeah, this was apparently to try and compete against this.
[889.46] Curry: There's a service called AppLovin, which is a kind of mobile ads type thing
[895.46] Curry: and they purchased something called Ironsource, which was their version of it.
[901.46] Curry: And so in order to try and put this AppLovin competitor out of business,
[905.46] Curry: they were then saying, use our services and we won't charge you anything.
[910.46] Curry: And of course developers weren't having any of this.
[912.46] Curry: Some of the biggest mobile developers out there decided what they would do is just turn off all ads
[917.46] Curry: that went through Unity services to really hurt them
[920.46] Curry: because that's where they make their actual money on ads.
[923.46] Curry: So yeah, it's been an absolute garbage fire for Unity.
[928.46] Curry: I found out that the CEO of Unity used to be CEO of EA, which will say a lot to some people.
[937.46] Curry: Apparently he had the idea that during a game,
[941.46] Curry: people playing like Call of Duty or something, one of their games,
[945.46] Curry: if they were like, the reload midway through the game, they need to reload.
[951.46] Curry: Let's charge him a dollar as a microtransaction for the reload.
[955.46] Curry: That was his idea.
[956.46] Curry: So you can just see where this monetization thing comes from.
[960.46] Stephen: It's got an absolute, insert your expletive of choice.
[964.46] Stephen: I mean, an absolute and total one.
[967.46] Stephen: Wow.
[968.46] Stephen: It's not good.
[969.46] Jack: I forgot about that.
[970.46] Jack: I forgot about the...
[972.46] Stephen: It's amazing, isn't it?
[974.46] Stephen: That's EA through and through though, isn't it?
[976.46] Stephen: Like they just keep themselves alive by repeating massive franchises
[981.46] Stephen: that are guaranteed to sell to gamers who are not particularly discerning,
[987.46] Stephen: you know, the big kind of basketball or football franchises
[991.46] Stephen: and they just get so much money from those.
[994.46] Stephen: They don't have to have ethics.
[997.46] Curry: Oh, well.
[998.46] Curry: Yeah.
[999.46] Curry: I mean, sorry, we're way off subject here.
[1001.46] Curry: We will come back to it.
[1002.46] Curry: I'm very against when you release a game and all the contents there,
[1007.46] Curry: but you've hidden part of it through a payroll.
[1010.46] Curry: So it's like, oh, sorry, did you want to use this gun?
[1013.46] Curry: That's going to cost you all this gun.
[1014.46] Curry: It's already there.
[1015.46] Curry: It's not like it's DLC.
[1016.46] Curry: It's just like, oh, you would charge your extra for it.
[1019.46] Curry: One second.
[1020.46] Curry: I will do that.
[1021.46] Curry: Okay.
[1022.46] Curry: Drone stuff, everybody.
[1025.46] Curry: How's...
[1026.46] Curry: Well, it's not been the week for it, has it, Jack?
[1028.46] Curry: What have you been up to?
[1029.46] Curry: No.
[1030.46] Jack: Surviving the weather.
[1033.46] Jack: Just fighting it all the way.
[1037.46] Jack: But we have got fantastic RC news though.
[1042.46] Jack: We have got good news.
[1046.46] Curry: Good.
[1047.46] Curry: Let's hear it.
[1048.46] Jack: You ready?
[1049.46] Jack: Hobbyking are back in the UK.
[1052.46] Stephen: Oh, did you see the logo as well?
[1054.46] Stephen: It showed a forklift truck lifting a large shipping container.
[1058.46] Stephen: And I was wondering, like, are they back to pick up their dangerous, flammable old lipo container?
[1063.46] Jack: I thought me and Curry would be up for it.
[1067.46] Jack: Unfortunately, hang on.
[1069.46] Jack: I can share my screen.
[1071.46] Jack: I don't know whether they actually...
[1074.46] Stephen: Do you have the graphic of Hobbyking back in the UK?
[1076.46] Stephen: Because there was one where they were just holding...
[1078.46] Stephen: Yeah.
[1079.46] Stephen: You see, they're holding a massive shipping container on the front page.
[1082.46] Stephen: And it just made me think of that container story that you were telling us.
[1086.46] Stephen: I mean...
[1089.46] Curry: I heard about it.
[1090.46] Curry: I wasn't sure if it was good news on top, quite honestly.
[1093.46] Curry: Unless we get to steal their car again.
[1095.46] Curry: That would be quite good.
[1096.46] Jack: Oh, yeah.
[1097.46] Jack: That is gone.
[1099.46] Jack: It's got to...
[1100.46] Jack: You can buy some guns.
[1102.46] Jack: Realistic guns.
[1105.46] Jack: Turn energy stuff.
[1107.46] Jack: That's the bargain bin.
[1108.46] Jack: I'm looking for...
[1110.46] Jack: I don't know.
[1111.46] Jack: The blog.
[1112.46] Stephen: There we go.
[1113.46] Stephen: It's all the bargain bin with Hobbyking though, isn't it?
[1114.46] Stephen: It's like that's their shtick.
[1116.46] Jack: There you go.
[1119.84] Jack: They're lifting the...
[1121.84] Jack: We're back.
[1123.84] Jack: 20% off.
[1127.84] Jack: That's the EU warehouse.
[1130.84] Jack: I can't think of where the...
[1134.84] Jack: Where it is.
[1136.84] Jack: But that's about it, I think.
[1139.84] Jack: I think that's all anyone ever did.
[1141.84] Curry: There's a wild NDRC out there.
[1144.84] Curry: They are coming back.
[1145.84] Curry: They were an old warden at the weekend.
[1147.84] Curry: The most stuff is out of stock at the moment.
[1149.84] Curry: So same old Hobbyking then.
[1151.84] Stephen: Yeah.
[1152.84] Stephen: I guess they're good for planes if you're into dodgy servers.
[1156.84] Curry: But yeah, they're useful for bits and pieces really.
[1159.84] Stephen: Like Hobbyking of the place you end up when you're looking for some obscure connector.
[1163.84] Stephen: And you just need something that turns something into something else.
[1166.84] Stephen: And Hobbyking will have it.
[1167.84] Stephen: But these days, a lot of sellers on eBay have kind of filled the space that Hobbyking have left, I think.
[1171.84] Stephen: Yeah.
[1172.84] Stephen: I remember.
[1173.84] Stephen: The last few orders I had, I was like, oh, I need a battery.
[1176.84] Stephen: And I'd get like six metres of this wire and that wire.
[1179.84] Curry: And a few quarters of that.
[1181.84] Curry: I need a battery.
[1182.84] Curry: And I'd get like six metres of this wire and that wire and a few connectors and bits and bobs.
[1188.84] Curry: And that about did it.
[1190.84] Curry: But yeah, as you say, eBay, it's just like any grade wire, any colour, any length now as well.
[1197.84] Curry: And you usually free shipping.
[1199.84] Stephen: There you go, Jack.
[1200.84] Stephen: That's the shipping container right there, isn't it?
[1203.84] Stephen: Yeah.
[1204.84] Stephen: The notorious dodgy lipo shipping container containing all the packs that were returned because they weren't up to scratch.
[1210.84] Jack: Was it, Curry, was it you with the video, like us going for it?
[1216.84] Jack: Yeah.
[1217.84] Jack: I can't remember who recorded that video.
[1219.84] Jack: What legend?
[1220.84] Curry: I recorded and then you literally said you can't show this.
[1225.84] Curry: And then they left.
[1226.84] Curry: So we're OK.
[1227.84] Curry: We could show it.
[1228.84] Curry: But now they're back.
[1229.84] Jack: And then we were like stealing like their bloody Land Rover.
[1235.84] Curry: Yeah.
[1236.84] Curry: We just borrowed it a bit.
[1237.84] Curry: Pull it back.
[1238.84] Curry: I don't know why they gave us the car.
[1240.84] Curry: Apart from you asking cheekily, which normally just gets a no.
[1244.84] Curry: It's just because the fact we managed to go in and talk to that new CEO.
[1248.84] Curry: And then we came out and said, can we drive the car?
[1251.84] Curry: And they were like, yeah, I guess so.
[1253.84] Curry: Just it's just coming out.
[1255.84] Curry: That's OK.
[1256.84] Stephen: You must be.
[1257.84] Stephen: You must be trustworthy.
[1258.84] Curry: Yeah, we're super, super important.
[1265.09] Jack: I think I've done really good in regards to that.
[1269.09] Jack: And I think you've done an awesome driving job, Cory.
[1274.09] Curry: Thank you.
[1275.09] Curry: I didn't crash it.
[1276.09] Curry: That was the main thing.
[1277.09] Curry: That would have been embarrassing.
[1278.09] Jack: We'd have had to just drive off.
[1280.09] Jack: Yeah, it didn't didn't break the vehicle, you know, which could have easily have happened.
[1287.09] Curry: Yeah.
[1288.09] Curry: Fair enough.
[1289.09] Curry: We were hanging out the windows at one point.
[1291.09] Curry: Well, you know, girls want to have fun.
[1300.4] Stephen: Speaking of fun and such, has anyone actually done any flying?
[1304.4] Stephen: I mean, we're in the middle of some torrential rain and flashes of thunder over here.
[1308.4] Curry: So I did some flying, but it was indoors.
[1311.4] Curry: I was testing out the HD zero goggles.
[1314.4] Curry: And so I was flying an HD zero quad and an analog quad
[1319.4] Curry: and getting head tracking, working and testing it out with open HD.
[1324.4] Curry: Lots of things.
[1325.4] Stephen: Cool.
[1326.4] Stephen: I saw the little whoop did really well kind of going down that little alley on the side of your house
[1330.4] Stephen: where you normally have everything fail and go to static.
[1334.4] Curry: Yeah, it did okay.
[1335.4] Curry: I think HD zeros got its place and it's not for looking pretty,
[1342.4] Curry: but it is very noticeable that it felt almost exactly like flying analog,
[1348.4] Curry: but with a nicer picture.
[1350.4] Curry: And I thought the breakup would be really annoying.
[1353.4] Curry: But you know, when you sort of you concentrate when you're flying on one bit
[1356.4] Curry: and the sort of peripheral breakups going on behind you doesn't doesn't really matter.
[1360.4] Curry: But when you watch on YouTube, you think, well, this is awful.
[1363.4] Stephen: I found the sheer brightness of the breakup because the screens are quite good.
[1367.4] Stephen: And it just really like almost eye wateringly bright breakup,
[1371.4] Stephen: which caught me by surprise.
[1373.4] Stephen: But it seems a lot brighter than the type of static I normally get on an analog.
[1377.4] Stephen: But yeah, it's not it's not a terrible system.
[1380.4] Stephen: I did see that they've dropped, I think it was a 90 or 95 pound VTX,
[1384.4] Stephen: which is a bit on the heavy side.
[1386.4] Stephen: But there's some cheaper stuff out there as well, isn't there?
[1389.4] Curry: I think so.
[1390.4] Curry: Because I noticed that the that little coil I got,
[1394.4] Curry: I think it retails at about 190, which I suppose for an HD.
[1399.4] Curry: That's good.
[1400.4] Curry: Is not bad at all compared to like walks now or something.
[1403.4] Curry: It's certainly cheaper.
[1405.4] Curry: But yeah, so it's kind of it's interesting.
[1408.4] Curry: As I said in the review there, there isn't there isn't one goggle that does it all, is there?
[1413.4] Curry: There's like a goggle that I felt that the HD zeros did a lot.
[1417.4] Curry: And I really liked the little wheel.
[1420.4] Curry: And I thought the joystick on the wall so much better than walks.
[1424.4] Curry: Now, I can't tell where I'm going left, right or up and down.
[1427.4] Curry: I'm constantly having a problem there.
[1429.4] Stephen: I'm constantly like having to take the thing off and be like, right,
[1432.4] Stephen: which direction is left and which is right?
[1434.4] Stephen: Because I just can't be straight.
[1436.4] Curry: It's a real problem.
[1437.4] Curry: But walks now, for some reason, they said, oh, no, you don't.
[1441.4] Curry: They're trying to move everybody off analog,
[1443.4] Curry: but they didn't think, oh, we should we should maybe have an expansion port,
[1446.4] Curry: but analog on or HDMI in or something like that,
[1449.4] Curry: which is which is where AC zero really comes in for the pure versatility.
[1454.4] Stephen: We had that silliness of, oh, you can either have HDMI out or HDMI in,
[1458.4] Stephen: but you can't have both, which is clearly B.S.
[1461.4] Stephen: Because the HD zero goggles are right there with two HDMI sockets,
[1466.4] Stephen: one in, one out.
[1467.4] Stephen: So what gives?
[1469.4] Curry: They can't do both at the same time, though.
[1472.4] Curry: They can do one or the other.
[1475.4] Stephen: But that means the goggles do nothing just passing a signal through,
[1477.4] Stephen: isn't it?
[1478.4] Curry: Yes.
[1479.4] Curry: I mean, that was only of relevance if you wanted to take something
[1483.4] Curry: externally, watch it and have it on an external screen.
[1487.4] Stephen: And the other thing by an HDMI matrix switch, if you're going to do that.
[1491.4] Curry: The other thing they can't do is record from HDMI to their DVR,
[1494.4] Curry: which I found a bit of a shame, but never mind.
[1499.4] Curry: But yeah, nice, nice goggles.
[1501.4] Curry: I saw you mentioned that they really pinched your nose for me.
[1504.4] Curry: I got them relatively comfy.
[1506.4] Curry: I find all the both walks now and HD zero quite heavy.
[1512.4] Curry: And I had to have the strap kind of quite tight else.
[1515.4] Curry: It sort of wants to go forward.
[1516.4] Curry: I can imagine with HD zero plus the walks now VRX,
[1520.4] Curry: you might have to start putting some sort of count balance on your head.
[1523.4] Stephen: I had had an odd faceplate because there was like the main goggle bit
[1528.4] Stephen: and then there was a foam bit and then there was another like sharp bit
[1532.4] Stephen: that was kind of like a flat panel,
[1534.4] Stephen: the edge of which was on the sides and bridge of my nose.
[1539.4] Stephen: Oh, right.
[1540.4] Stephen: I felt like maybe they put an alternate faceplate on that just wasn't
[1544.4] Stephen: Steve shaped it with someone else's shaped.
[1547.4] Jack: No, maybe not because I did get two in the box.
[1550.4] Curry: Yeah, I had two in the box.
[1552.4] Curry: So what I did, I put the foam round and held it to my face.
[1555.4] Curry: And on the on the bigger one, I could I sort of get my finger in.
[1559.4] Curry: So I use the smaller one that was on that to measure out.
[1561.4] Curry: But that was that was quite comfy.
[1563.4] Curry: But like you said, maybe they've maybe they've changed it since.
[1566.4] Curry: Since you got yours.
[1567.4] Stephen: I have got a big nose or flat.
[1569.4] Curry: Me too.
[1570.4] Stephen: So ever.
[1571.4] Curry: Yeah.
[1572.4] Curry: I didn't think I thought I had a beautiful, cute nose until we went
[1575.4] Curry: to some cartoonist to do like, you know, here's a caricature.
[1578.4] Curry: And he said to me, you've got the perfect nose for me.
[1581.4] Curry: I was like, what's that mean?
[1583.4] Curry: Then I saw the character.
[1585.4] Curry: I was like, I had to ask my wife, do I have a big nose?
[1588.4] Curry: And she said, you know, no, no.
[1591.4] Stephen: I can't see it from here.
[1593.4] Jack: Come on.
[1595.4] Stephen: That's not.
[1598.4] Curry: Differently big.
[1601.4] Stephen: Speaking of silly H.D.
[1603.4] Stephen: Systems.
[1604.4] Stephen: Hello, Superfly.
[1606.4] Stephen: I built your frame.
[1608.4] Stephen: At last.
[1610.4] Stephen: Superfly sync mode with a Cootremont, including an
[1615.4] Stephen: unusually installed skid that wouldn't actually go under the
[1619.4] Stephen: arm.
[1620.4] Stephen: So it's over the arm.
[1621.4] Stephen: I might find a slightly longer antenna but it weren't supposed to
[1624.4] Stephen: go soon.
[1625.4] Stephen: But this has got the O3 and a dazzling amount of TPU as our
[1630.4] Stephen: video viewers will be able to see.
[1632.4] Stephen: And also the Dodgy Metzking motors, Failsafe had a set that
[1636.4] Stephen: he wasn't wanting to use.
[1638.4] Stephen: So I popped them on there.
[1639.4] Stephen: A GPS mount on the nose.
[1641.4] Stephen: And it's looking.
[1642.4] Stephen: Are they plastic?
[1644.4] Jack: The motors, no, they're metal.
[1646.4] Stephen: They're just powder coated.
[1648.4] Stephen: Okay.
[1649.4] Stephen: And it's got an O3 in there.
[1652.4] Stephen: So it's got the full fat O3 in there.
[1655.4] Stephen: And a 30 by 30.
[1657.4] Stephen: My first 30 by 30 build, I think, this one.
[1660.4] Stephen: So easy.
[1661.4] Stephen: Like, I didn't need to.
[1663.4] Stephen: I used the big tip.
[1664.4] Stephen: The one I did for XD 60s.
[1666.4] Stephen: Just did the whole thing with the big tip on.
[1669.4] Stephen: That was a doddle.
[1671.4] Stephen: But, yeah.
[1672.4] Jack: It's room for activities.
[1676.4] Jack: Yeah, yeah.
[1677.4] Stephen: Room for a whole sort.
[1678.4] Stephen: Like, fitting the compass in wasn't a struggle.
[1680.4] Stephen: It normally is a struggle.
[1683.4] Stephen: And that means that the super light, tiny, whatever it is,
[1688.4] Stephen: shaved down, decased O3, went into this little guy,
[1692.4] Stephen: which has the teeny weeny fly woo one.
[1695.4] Stephen: I did get in touch and tell the guy,
[1697.4] Stephen: have you got a camera mount for this?
[1699.4] Stephen: Because it turns out the fly woo camera mount,
[1702.4] Stephen: which is like a kind of claw mount that goes round
[1705.4] Stephen: from the back and just bolts onto the reverse of the lens
[1708.4] Stephen: instead of having a fully enclosed thing.
[1710.4] Stephen: Like a skeleton that just grabs each corner of the lens.
[1714.4] Stephen: Isn't the normal DJI size.
[1716.4] Stephen: The normal DJI size is a 20 mil.
[1719.4] Stephen: And this one is actually 18 mil.
[1722.4] Stephen: It's a one mil narrower than the normal 19 mil mount.
[1725.4] Stephen: So it's way too loose in the O3 mount.
[1728.4] Stephen: So I thought, I'll ask the guy,
[1730.4] Stephen: see if he's got another mount.
[1732.4] Stephen: And then I ended up just printing the normal mount out at 90%
[1735.4] Stephen: and sort of wrestled it onto the frame.
[1738.4] Stephen: And then it was the right size O3.
[1740.4] Stephen: So I cheated a bit there,
[1742.4] Stephen: but now it's totally under 250 with a quite lovely F745
[1747.4] Stephen: all in one from fly woo.
[1749.4] Stephen: And the fly woo naked air unit,
[1752.4] Stephen: I didn't even have to go down to the crappy little dipoles.
[1756.4] Stephen: I've got the regular antenna in there.
[1758.4] Stephen: So I could drop maybe two grams before went down to dipoles.
[1761.4] Stephen: I didn't think I could quite drop enough to get a GPS on there.
[1764.4] Stephen: That's my only gripe.
[1765.4] Stephen: I would have liked to get a GPS on there.
[1767.4] Stephen: That would probably mean using rubber bands instead of a battery strap
[1770.4] Stephen: and going for crappy dipoles.
[1772.4] Stephen: And I was just like, nevermind.
[1775.4] Stephen: I'll just keep it like a decent one with all the features.
[1779.4] Stephen: I still got 1505 here as well, which is quite nice.
[1782.4] Stephen: 1505 in the O3.
[1783.4] Stephen: So it's got a little bit of umph to get out of trouble.
[1787.4] Stephen: Yeah.
[1788.4] Stephen: Lovely little bird.
[1789.4] Stephen: I was flying it quite a bit.
[1791.4] Stephen: And I've gone down from my optimistic 35 degree camera angle
[1794.4] Stephen: to 20 degrees after realizing that filming smooth cinematic footage
[1799.4] Stephen: while ripping balls wasn't necessarily easy to do.
[1803.4] Stephen: And it would probably be better if I just flapped it.
[1805.4] Stephen: But yeah, a couple of little volts.
[1807.4] Stephen: I'm looking forward to not raining, getting them out.
[1811.4] Curry: I think early next week, we've got a couple of days of maybe not rain.
[1815.4] Curry: Maybe not rain.
[1816.4] Curry: Welcome to the UK.
[1818.4] Curry: We're hoping for maybe not rain.
[1820.4] Curry: Piling up now.
[1821.4] Curry: I've got my Komeira 7 I want to retest with my big batteries.
[1825.4] Curry: And I've got, for the HD0 test, I set up head tracking on my mini Talon,
[1834.4] Curry: which I've got a new Express LRS receiver on there, the 14 channel one,
[1839.4] Curry: where I'm mixing S bus and PWM for funds, which I can test out.
[1844.4] Curry: Still got the big set of fly, loads of stuff.
[1847.4] Curry: But yeah, the weather is not being very cooperative at all, is it?
[1851.4] Curry: It's been pretty awful.
[1853.4] Jack: I got offered to go fly from Tom and I was busy doing other stuff.
[1859.4] Jack: And I was like, I can't.
[1861.4] Jack: And then the next day I was free and then kind of was dying a bit from that.
[1866.4] Jack: And then, you know, it was like, it's like ships in the night missing,
[1873.4] Jack: keep missing out.
[1875.4] Frank: This episode was recorded in front of a live online audience,
[1878.4] Frank: downloaded and edited to make sense when it played audio only,
[1881.4] Frank: censored to please the iTunes people, hosted on the internet,
[1884.4] Frank: forwarded through to your podcast provider,
[1886.4] Frank: downloaded, playing on your device and is now playing in your ears.
[1890.4] Frank: All thanks to our Patreons.
[1892.4] Frank: Consider joining them and you'll also get other online benefits.
[1895.4] Frank: Find out more at patreon.com forward slash let's drone out.
[1901.4] Curry: We've got a little comment from Andy there, by the way.
[1903.4] Curry: I saw this as well on the on the Cadix Facebook page.
[1907.4] Curry: It looks like they're talking about a new Walksnail goggle,
[1911.4] Curry: which may have analog possibility to it.
[1917.4] Curry: It's a bit weird because we can see it's a silhouette.
[1919.4] Curry: So it's a little hard to tell what's going on.
[1922.4] Curry: But maybe you got a link.
[1929.4] Jack: I think Stephen's on it.
[1931.4] Stephen: Oh, I saw it earlier today.
[1933.4] Stephen: I'm just trying to remember where on earth I saw it.
[1935.4] Stephen: Ah, there we are.
[1937.4] Stephen: I saw it on Facebook.
[1941.48] Curry: It doesn't give much away from the picture, though,
[1943.48] Curry: I have to say.
[1944.48] Curry: It's like this is what it looks like in the dark.
[1946.48] Curry: So just imagine it just behind Jack there.
[1948.48] Curry: That's quite a good impression.
[1950.48] Stephen: Yeah, it's like these new car teasers where it's just.
[1955.48] Jack: Spoken darkness.
[1960.37] Stephen: See if I can get the right window up on the full screen.
[1962.37] Stephen: There we are.
[1964.37] Stephen: Boop, boop, boop, boop, boop.
[1965.37] Stephen: Here we are.
[1966.37] Stephen: Yeah, I mean, I've tried to maximize it so you can see what's going on.
[1969.37] Stephen: Of course, you can't.
[1970.37] Stephen: But there's a hint of a diopter adjustment at the bottom.
[1974.37] Stephen: And I would say going from Walksnail.
[1983.64] Jack: They've got that background.
[1987.64] Curry: I mean, it's the typical.
[1990.64] Curry: The X terminal thing for X windows on Unix.
[1995.64] Stephen: I would say given the height top to bottom on the current goggles,
[1999.64] Stephen: they look like they're maybe going towards a box goggle,
[2003.64] Stephen: something that's a bit thicker from top to bottom.
[2006.64] Stephen: Because those knobs at the bottom,
[2008.64] Stephen: where you've got the IPD adjustment,
[2010.64] Stephen: they're visible over the bottom white bits of the X.
[2013.64] Stephen: They look quite far away from the top edge of that image.
[2017.64] Stephen: Unless they've got a weird angle.
[2020.64] Curry: Sorry.
[2023.02] Curry: So it might be something a bit chunkier.
[2026.02] Curry: Or maybe the special condition is they light up like daft punk.
[2030.02] Curry: A bit like the big announcement from Raylee Master was a boxer,
[2033.02] Curry: but it's transparent.
[2035.02] Stephen: Yeah.
[2036.02] Curry: Maybe it's not as much as you think.
[2037.02] Stephen: I was enjoying that new boxer.
[2039.02] Stephen: That was quite nice.
[2040.02] Stephen: But I'm interested to see what Walksnail will do.
[2044.02] Stephen: They've been talking about messing around with the bit rates and things.
[2049.02] Stephen: I'm just not sure whether they're staffed with radio engineers
[2053.02] Stephen: who can actually yield any additional performance
[2058.02] Stephen: out of the system themselves at this point.
[2061.02] Stephen: So it might be good in terms of ergonomics,
[2063.02] Stephen: but I don't think we should expect to see 1080p 60 or anything like that.
[2068.02] Stephen: I think 1080p 100, I don't think that's going to happen.
[2072.02] Curry: I think you mentioned it last week.
[2075.02] Curry: It would be nice if they had some of the functionality,
[2080.02] Curry: at least available and open-sourced that.
[2083.02] Curry: I can understand them not wanting to reveal everything about it,
[2088.02] Curry: but it's like, okay, well, there's a lot of pretty clever people out there
[2091.02] Curry: that might be able to e-count some more performance that you might not do.
[2096.02] Stephen: Yeah.
[2097.02] Stephen: There are people who are looking at how the video stream is structured
[2100.02] Stephen: and whether there's optimizations that could be done at the MPEG level,
[2104.02] Stephen: whether there's optimizations that could be done at the radio level.
[2107.02] Stephen: If they would open it up,
[2108.02] Stephen: then I think they've got a lot of help,
[2110.02] Stephen: but even HD0, who have, in quotes, open-sourced their offering,
[2116.02] Stephen: have really open-sourced only the user interface portions.
[2120.02] Stephen: Yeah.
[2121.02] Stephen: There's some user interface portions, but the guts fit on.
[2125.02] Curry: So, yeah, the Google firmware or the UI part of the Google firmware
[2132.02] Curry: is available to mess with on GitHub,
[2135.02] Curry: which is possibly the reason that I did open a support thing
[2140.02] Curry: when I was having problems head-tracking,
[2142.02] Curry: which turned out to be, oh, your PPM stream is inverted.
[2145.02] Curry: I didn't know that.
[2147.02] Curry: And the response I got from HD0 is, oh, we didn't write that bit.
[2153.02] Curry: Try asking on Discord, which surprised me a bit.
[2157.02] Curry: I thought, oh, that's interesting because they don't know their own stuff,
[2161.02] Curry: or what?
[2164.02] Stephen: The risk here is that when a team of keen developers
[2168.02] Stephen: gets hold of something and starts writing
[2170.02] Stephen: that the features come in thick and fast,
[2172.02] Stephen: and it's kind of difficult to keep track
[2174.02] Stephen: of what someone else has added to your software
[2177.02] Stephen: if you didn't write it yourself,
[2179.02] Stephen: and especially with something like head-trackers
[2181.02] Stephen: that 90% of people are not going to use,
[2183.02] Stephen: it's pretty difficult to know what's going on.
[2186.02] Stephen: How did you find the head-tracker, by the way?
[2188.02] Stephen: You've kind of dropped a hint there
[2189.02] Stephen: that you might be doing head-tracking with HD0.
[2193.02] Curry: Well, as you know, it's built in there,
[2195.02] Curry: and I thought, oh, I'll just plug in a cable and try it out.
[2199.02] Curry: And I made a cock-up on my radio initially
[2202.02] Curry: because I'd watched in a video previously,
[2206.02] Curry: someone talked about if you use a TR1 as the mix source,
[2210.02] Curry: then you wouldn't actually have to enable the trainer,
[2213.02] Curry: which turned out not to be the case.
[2215.02] Curry: So I was trying to do that, and it wasn't working
[2217.02] Curry: because I hadn't enabled the trainer.
[2219.02] Curry: So then I put the head-tracker on a PPM display,
[2224.02] Curry: this little UIOV, and it was like all the channels
[2226.02] Curry: were going crazy, and I was like, that's weird.
[2228.02] Curry: And I plugged it into radio, and that worked absolutely fine.
[2231.02] Curry: So that's when I wrote to them and said,
[2233.02] Curry: what's going on?
[2234.02] Curry: Is this weird?
[2235.02] Curry: Is this bad?
[2236.02] Curry: It's only when I put it on my little,
[2238.02] Curry: I got this little oscilloscope, my $20 one.
[2242.02] Curry: And I could see that on the radio, the PPM stream,
[2246.02] Curry: you've got the signal, and then the gaps,
[2249.02] Curry: and the signal's high, and the gap's low.
[2251.02] Curry: And when I put it on the head-tracker,
[2254.02] Curry: it was the fact that the signal was low,
[2256.02] Curry: and then the gaps was high, so it was an inverted signal.
[2259.02] Curry: And the little UIOV thing couldn't work it out.
[2262.02] Curry: But once I put it on the radio and put the trainer on,
[2265.02] Curry: it could work it out fine.
[2267.02] Curry: But it completely threw me off trying to diagnose it.
[2270.02] Curry: The trainer function doesn't understand it being inverted.
[2272.02] Curry: Yeah, the trainer function does.
[2273.02] Curry: But because I was sort of, I went down this route,
[2276.02] Curry: and I was like, whoa, this PPM display has gone crazy.
[2279.02] Curry: Obviously, that one couldn't.
[2281.02] Curry: So it was throwing the right wobbly, and I was like,
[2283.02] Curry: oh, it must be crap, but it was fine.
[2285.02] Curry: But apparently, I just did it on a wide thing,
[2288.02] Curry: but people have been using a wireless.
[2291.02] Curry: That's one of the sort of community developed ones.
[2293.02] Stephen: It's got an ESP32 in there.
[2295.02] Curry: Yeah, so exactly.
[2296.02] Curry: So they're using that in conjunction with the backpack
[2299.02] Curry: on the radio in order to control head-tracking that way.
[2302.02] Stephen: With an ELRS backpack.
[2304.02] Curry: So it's within ELRS from, I think it's freed up free,
[2310.02] Curry: I'm going to say.
[2311.02] Curry: So I'll test that next.
[2312.02] Curry: I'm going to do it wide first, see how it goes,
[2314.02] Curry: and then I'll start panning around with the wireless.
[2317.02] Stephen: So you're like tromboning the head-tracking data
[2319.02] Stephen: from the ELRS module into the radio,
[2321.02] Stephen: and then remapping it to channel
[2323.02] Stephen: and sending it back to the ELRS module.
[2325.02] Stephen: Or how does that work?
[2326.02] Curry: Yeah, because essentially, that's how it would happen.
[2328.02] Curry: When you've got your cable, it's just, here are some channels,
[2331.02] Curry: and then you say, okay, this particular channel
[2334.02] Curry: is mapped to, like, TR1.
[2335.02] Curry: So that means it's the first of the PPM string comes in,
[2339.02] Curry: and you say, that is my source for channel 7,
[2342.02] Curry: and then you do this, and that sends that to the camera.
[2346.02] Curry: So you're just basically doing the same thing,
[2349.02] Curry: but instead of going through the cable and into the mix,
[2352.02] Curry: it's going into the ELRS backpack,
[2354.02] Curry: and there's this, apparently, there's this thing.
[2356.02] Stephen: Does it go straight from the backpack to the TX,
[2359.02] Stephen: or does it go backpack into radio through the mixer
[2362.02] Stephen: and then out to the TX?
[2365.02] Curry: No, backpack to radio into mixer,
[2368.02] Curry: I think into, presumably into mixer,
[2370.02] Curry: and then out.
[2371.02] Curry: So much the same way, just cutting the cable out.
[2374.02] Curry: But I think you set it up in the Lua
[2377.02] Curry: to say, I'm using head-tracking, these are my channels,
[2380.02] Curry: and do it that way.
[2381.02] Stephen: Fascinating.
[2383.42] Curry: Because that's, the answers from the Discord,
[2385.42] Curry: when I asked them, rather than saying,
[2387.42] Curry: if you tried, you're doing it wrong, it's like,
[2390.42] Curry: oh, do wireless, it works all right.
[2393.42] Curry: I was like, oh, I want this to work first.
[2397.42] Stephen: The problem with HT and HD0 goggles, Andy says,
[2400.42] Stephen: is you can't change the gains individually.
[2403.42] Stephen: And that's just what I was trying to get at
[2405.42] Stephen: by asking, does it dumbly pass them from the backpack
[2408.42] Stephen: straight out of the ELRS module?
[2410.42] Stephen: But from what Curry's just said,
[2412.42] Stephen: it sounds like they're actually visible to Edge TX
[2415.42] Stephen: as mixer inputs.
[2417.42] Stephen: So that means that Edge TX should be able to go,
[2421.42] Stephen: oh, right, yeah, I'll just up the gain on this channel
[2424.42] Stephen: and give you a bit more of left and right
[2427.42] Stephen: and a bit less of up and down,
[2429.42] Stephen: or whatever it is you need, right?
[2432.42] Curry: Yeah, you've got a proportional thing
[2435.42] Curry: to say how much of a sentence you want.
[2437.42] Curry: But what you don't have, I did notice, is like a reset button.
[2440.42] Curry: So on fat sharks, if you're using,
[2443.42] Curry: I don't have a trinity, but there's a button,
[2445.42] Curry: and if you press it, I think that resets it.
[2447.42] Curry: So if it goes out and you're like,
[2450.42] Curry: sort of, oh, I can't get it back,
[2452.42] Curry: trying to turn all the way around.
[2454.42] Curry: I mean, I've got all mine on a switch anyway,
[2456.42] Curry: so it's like, I flick a switch and I'm back on like pots
[2460.42] Curry: or sliders, and I flick a switch and I'm back on head tracking.
[2465.42] Curry: But you can obviously go in and re-center it.
[2468.42] Curry: You've got an emergency rescue.
[2470.42] Stephen: It basically goes, hey, why, you can just go center.
[2472.42] Stephen: Yeah.
[2474.7] Curry: Cool.
[2475.7] UNKNOWN: Very much.
[2476.7] Stephen: What do you want to do in head tracking?
[2478.7] Stephen: What sort of planes do you have set up for that?
[2480.7] Curry: So the mixer that was behind me has a pan-tilt,
[2484.7] Curry: and I always used to use my Tyrannus with the side sliders.
[2488.7] Curry: My mini-talon that I'm trying to get back in the air again
[2493.7] Curry: because it's got an old legacy Eagle Tree vector on there.
[2498.7] Curry: I've just connected that to this 14-channel beta FPV receiver,
[2504.7] Curry: which is interesting because it mixes S bus
[2507.7] Curry: and individual PWM channels.
[2509.7] Curry: So it's just got a pan on it.
[2510.7] Curry: So that's been set up as well.
[2512.7] Curry: So I'll be able to try those both out.
[2514.7] Curry: I've never used it before.
[2516.7] Curry: Generally speaking, when I've had the sliders,
[2518.7] Curry: it's like, look at the wing.
[2519.7] Curry: Oh, look, a wing.
[2520.7] Curry: Go back to the center.
[2521.7] Curry: Or where's my friend?
[2522.7] Curry: He's round it.
[2523.7] Curry: I've lost him, sort of thing like that.
[2525.7] Curry: But doing this.
[2526.7] Curry: Now it's going to be like looking around like this.
[2529.7] Curry: It's going to be interesting because I think
[2532.7] Curry: you kind of learn pretty quickly to keep your head still
[2536.7] Curry: when you're doing FPV.
[2538.7] Curry: And I've watched myself back and it's kind of, you know,
[2540.7] Curry: it's like you're having a stroke or something.
[2542.7] Curry: You're just like going sideways
[2543.7] Curry: and maybe there's a little bit of shuffling.
[2545.7] Curry: But now it'd be like sort of Stevie Wonder type ways of FPVing.
[2549.7] Curry: So it'd be interesting.
[2552.7] Stephen: I wonder how the lag would feel.
[2553.7] Stephen: That's the one thing I've never figured out with head tracking,
[2556.7] Stephen: like how much lag there is between the input
[2559.7] Stephen: and the servo affecting the change.
[2561.7] Stephen: And does it feel kind of weird?
[2564.7] Curry: It's pretty quick.
[2565.7] Curry: Servo is pretty quick.
[2566.7] Curry: So I can put the slider all the way down
[2568.7] Curry: and it goes vroom, vroom.
[2570.7] Curry: So it's kind of like with planes,
[2574.7] Curry: you're not flying them a couple of inches above the ground.
[2577.7] Curry: So normally you cut 100 feet up.
[2579.7] Curry: So it's not critical.
[2581.7] Curry: But generally speaking, it's not too bad.
[2585.7] Curry: But then again, you haven't got that sort of precise control.
[2588.7] Stephen: Don't forget again.
[2589.7] Stephen: You're not looking at really tiny targets either, are you?
[2591.7] Stephen: You're looking at a rough direction.
[2593.7] Stephen: You're not trying to like look at something and open a door
[2596.7] Stephen: or like you would have VR.
[2598.7] Curry: Yeah.
[2599.7] Curry: I mean, it's always interesting when, you know,
[2602.7] Curry: we were doing chase flights
[2604.7] Curry: and the most interesting shot you can get is like when my friend comes up
[2609.7] Curry: and he's on next to me and I can look across
[2611.7] Curry: and I can see my wing and him just sort of above
[2614.7] Curry: just sort of trying to hold position there
[2616.7] Curry: and just trying to keep that is really intense.
[2619.7] Curry: Mm-hmm.
[2620.7] Jack: But yeah, so it's...
[2622.7] Jack: Really massive.
[2623.7] Jack: It should be.
[2624.7] Curry: Yeah, hopefully. We'll see.
[2627.7] Curry: We'll see.
[2628.7] Curry: Fingers crossed the next week.
[2629.7] Stephen: A shout out to Richard Warwick.
[2631.7] Stephen: Yeah, that is actually the reason I started watching LDO as well.
[2635.7] Stephen: But NDRC mentioned it on his channel.
[2638.7] Stephen: And look where we are now.
[2640.7] Stephen: Thanks, Andy.
[2642.7] Jack: Andy is the best.
[2645.7] Jack: I've got a...
[2647.7] Jack: I don't know whether...
[2649.7] Jack: Andy, let me know if you mind me sharing this.
[2652.7] Jack: But I've got a lovely picture of Andy eating hot dogs.
[2659.7] Stephen: So when do you think we're going to be able to get out flying again?
[2663.7] Curry: It looks...
[2664.7] Curry: I always check the BBC forecast for my area
[2668.7] Curry: and that's how I knew the entire week was a right off.
[2670.7] Curry: But Monday and Tuesday don't have it raining.
[2673.7] Curry: It says gentle breeze and the little sunshine thing is out
[2678.7] Curry: with perhaps a shadow, which is good enough for me.
[2681.7] Curry: And the wind will decide whether I'm going to fly multi-rotor or fixed wing.
[2688.7] Curry: Because the only problem with fixed wing is you have to land it again.
[2690.7] Curry: And at the moment that could mean just like all this mud going...
[2694.7] Curry: As we come back down.
[2696.7] Curry: Yeah, it sounds like a bit of a liability.
[2698.7] Curry: So you're going to go out and try to fly those two little quads you've just bought.
[2702.7] Stephen: Yeah, so I've got the O3 thing set up.
[2705.7] Stephen: Also, for people who might be flying the latest Betaflight version
[2710.7] Stephen: because I think we're about to hit RC with version 4.5
[2713.7] Stephen: which introduces, if you're on walksnail, coloured fonts, which is pretty cool.
[2718.7] Stephen: The WTFOS guys will be doing coloured fonts in the future right now.
[2724.7] Stephen: If you are using Betaflight 4.5 and you are using WTFOS, update your goggles.
[2731.7] Stephen: Update your goggles to get the latest MSP OSD package.
[2735.7] Stephen: Because otherwise, it'll try and paint your warnings in red,
[2739.7] Stephen: but it ain't got a red font.
[2741.7] Stephen: And on older versions, when it doesn't have a red font, it doesn't show you anything.
[2746.7] Stephen: So update the goggles on WTFOS if you fly Betaflight 4.5.
[2751.7] Stephen: And then all your warnings and things will come up as normal.
[2754.7] Stephen: Otherwise, when it thinks it's drawing red, you're going to see nothing.
[2759.7] Stephen: If you do the update, when it draws red, you just get white, which is what you want.
[2765.7] Stephen: So a little bit of advice there.
[2768.7] Stephen: But yeah, so far, so good over here.
[2772.7] Stephen: I'll take these out and have a bit of a gun around with O3.
[2775.7] Stephen: I'm still getting used to the O3.
[2777.7] Stephen: It's an interesting system.
[2779.7] Stephen: It's not perfect.
[2781.7] Stephen: Just because it's a pricey system, I don't think that means it does everything right.
[2785.7] Stephen: There's still some very strange business when you do slow pans.
[2792.7] Stephen: The quad movement comes out smooth in the recorded video,
[2797.7] Stephen: but through the goggles, you will quite often see a stuttering.
[2801.7] Stephen: And I can't tell what's going on there.
[2804.7] Stephen: The picture is really nicely done.
[2807.7] Stephen: I mean, you can't complain of the camera modules in these.
[2810.7] Stephen: They're genuinely cinematic.
[2812.7] Stephen: It means it's a little bit hard going from bright to dark, as I mentioned before,
[2816.7] Stephen: but they're pretty good.
[2817.7] Stephen: But there is a bit of an odd stutter, which makes me feel, perhaps,
[2822.7] Stephen: when people talk about disconnected, I didn't feel it with the old DJI system.
[2825.7] Stephen: I think I feel it more with the O3 than I did with the old one,
[2829.7] Stephen: which I wasn't expecting at all.
[2833.7] Stephen: I'll give it a shot, see how it works out.
[2836.7] Stephen: Interesting.
[2838.7] Curry: I heard last week you were talking about you still had some...
[2844.7] Curry: You loved the fact it was very cinematic,
[2846.7] Curry: but because it was very cinematic, it didn't handle light to dark or dark to light very well.
[2852.7] Stephen: Right.
[2853.7] Stephen: I was flying somewhere where there was a big tree canopy area.
[2857.7] Stephen: They had a little fire pit next to where we were staying,
[2860.7] Stephen: and there were some trees over there where we were hiding away from the sun
[2865.7] Stephen: when it was really stinking hot last week.
[2868.7] Stephen: So I was sitting down there flying from there
[2870.7] Stephen: and then going out from under the tree canopy into the bright.
[2873.7] Stephen: And there was several seconds of complete sun dazzle.
[2877.7] Stephen: And this happened again and again.
[2879.7] Stephen: And I did the same flying on walksnail.
[2882.7] Stephen: And on walksnail, it was very much just like a snap.
[2885.7] Stephen: You see the white, there's a bit of a flash, and then it dials it down.
[2889.7] Stephen: Whereas with 03, it was like those slow cinematic walking out into the sunlight scenes.
[2894.7] Stephen: You might see in movies where a character opens the door and walks out,
[2897.7] Stephen: and there's a boom, big...
[2899.7] Curry: Blinding light.
[2900.7] Stephen: And then as they move out, it slowly fades down.
[2903.7] Stephen: And that's what you get.
[2904.7] Stephen: And it's wonderfully cinematic.
[2906.7] Stephen: But when you're flying, you have a,
[2909.7] Stephen: oh, poopers come out moment for several seconds
[2913.7] Stephen: when you're just like, am I going to hit something?
[2916.7] Stephen: Am I going to get caught in the grass?
[2918.7] Stephen: Where is the grass?
[2919.7] Stephen: Where is everything?
[2921.7] Stephen: And that was disarming and a little bit problematic.
[2924.7] Stephen: But you can't argue with the footage it records afterwards.
[2928.7] Stephen: It looks great.
[2929.7] Stephen: So long as you've got lots of light.
[2931.7] Stephen: If you go into really dark places, it's a little tricky.
[2934.7] Stephen: Though I have found that if you enable this,
[2937.7] Stephen: there's like a 10-bit option that they name something else,
[2940.7] Stephen: like a Pro Res option that basically gives you more detail in the shadows
[2944.7] Stephen: than the default settings do.
[2946.7] Stephen: And some people have said that makes it even harder to fly,
[2949.7] Stephen: but it does really make the footage look a lot better.
[2951.7] Stephen: So if you can fly with the 10-bit stuff, that's better.
[2955.7] Stephen: Unfortunately, the file sizes are ginormous,
[2958.7] Stephen: like genuinely struggle to play them back.
[2962.7] Stephen: And I've managed to somehow break hardware acceleration.
[2965.7] Stephen: So now I can't play back my DTI DDR here.
[2968.7] Stephen: It's just moping on me.
[2971.7] Stephen: Cheers.
[2973.7] Curry: I suppose I got a lot of windy comments from the HC0 video
[2980.7] Curry: because I talked about perhaps the reason you might use them
[2983.7] Curry: over something else was latency is very low and it's fixed.
[2987.7] Curry: And now I've got a load of complaints saying,
[2989.7] Curry: I fly DJI and the latency isn't a problem.
[2992.7] Curry: It's not a problem because you get used to what you use
[2996.7] Curry: and you get to know what you can and can't do.
[2999.7] Curry: But it's a bit like when I flew S bus,
[3003.7] Curry: there was nothing wrong with it.
[3005.7] Curry: It felt brilliantly.
[3006.7] Curry: And then I had the same quad and I had crossfire on it,
[3008.7] Curry: which I managed to switch over within two minutes and fly again.
[3011.7] Curry: It was like, oh, this feels completely different.
[3013.7] Curry: There was nothing wrong with it previously,
[3015.7] Curry: but now it feels faster.
[3016.7] Curry: It's kind of like that.
[3018.7] Curry: But you get used to what you can do and what you can't do.
[3022.7] Curry: And when you fly something like that all the time,
[3025.7] Curry: it becomes like the new normal, doesn't it?
[3029.7] Stephen: Yeah, you definitely get used to these things.
[3031.7] Stephen: And I still fly analog.
[3033.7] Stephen: I've got a bunch of whoops.
[3036.7] Stephen: I've dismantled the only HC0 quad I had
[3038.7] Stephen: because I wasn't really enjoying that.
[3040.7] Stephen: But I've got a lot of analog and I do fly them.
[3042.7] Stephen: The park's bustling and I just want to go
[3044.7] Stephen: and fly a couple of light little 2S packs for a few minutes
[3048.7] Stephen: just to chill out, go and fly those around a smaller area
[3052.7] Stephen: where I can kind of have space around people
[3055.7] Stephen: a bit more easily than I can if I'm flying
[3057.7] Stephen: like a three or three and a half inch.
[3060.7] Stephen: I don't tend to notice a big difference
[3062.7] Stephen: between analog and digital, but I guess with analog,
[3066.7] Stephen: I'm often flying like a Retelle,
[3069.7] Stephen: which I think is quite a slow analog camera anyway,
[3071.7] Stephen: so that might play into it.
[3073.7] Curry: Yeah, I don't particularly think there's a problem
[3079.46] Curry: with latency in digital.
[3082.46] Curry: I think it's more of a problem when the latency changes,
[3085.46] Curry: which is when you notice it,
[3087.46] Curry: but you're generally at the edge of what you can do
[3091.46] Curry: when that sort of thing kicks in, aren't you?
[3096.45] Stephen: Yeah, it's the variation, especially when you do those moves
[3100.45] Stephen: like you're holding the quad mostly level.
[3103.45] Stephen: I guess you really only see this with quads
[3105.45] Stephen: because you can hold a couple of axes level
[3108.45] Stephen: and just pan on other axes,
[3110.45] Stephen: and then you're like, well, this isn't quite right,
[3114.45] Stephen: and you might see it sometimes in low frame rate movies
[3118.45] Stephen: on a really big screen where you get
[3120.45] Stephen: this perceptible frame judder,
[3122.45] Stephen: but with movies, it's often, well, it is
[3125.45] Stephen: because they have a well-regulated clock
[3128.45] Stephen: that it's a constant judder,
[3130.45] Stephen: whereas with DJI, you're like, you're smooth,
[3132.45] Stephen: and it goes, and then smooth, and it is a bit of a,
[3138.45] Stephen: did I really see that?
[3140.45] Stephen: What happened there?
[3145.2] Stephen: Yeah, it throws you off a wee bit, unfortunately.
[3148.2] Stephen: Yeah, I can imagine.
[3150.2] Stephen: I've learned to deal with it.
[3152.2] Stephen: I've heard it's better if you go from auto to a fixed channel,
[3155.2] Stephen: but as Gavin Lee found when we were in Croatia,
[3158.2] Stephen: if you're on a fixed channel with O3
[3160.2] Stephen: and someone else fires up on that channel,
[3163.2] Stephen: you get blown out just like if you're on analog
[3166.2] Stephen: because they've redesigned the way
[3168.2] Stephen: that channel migration occurs with O3,
[3171.2] Stephen: like the old DJI system, you'd say,
[3173.2] Stephen: oh, I'm going on channel two,
[3175.2] Stephen: and someone would fire up analog,
[3177.2] Stephen: and it would kind of just more or less
[3180.2] Stephen: blow out the analog pilot, and you'd carry on.
[3183.2] Stephen: Whereas with O3, if someone fires up on your channel,
[3187.2] Stephen: it's got a much higher likelihood
[3189.2] Stephen: of just freezing the image,
[3190.2] Stephen: and I had it completely freeze on me
[3192.2] Stephen: when I was about 70 meters away,
[3195.2] Stephen: and luckily I was like all of four foot off the ground,
[3198.2] Stephen: so I just disarmed and went down
[3200.2] Stephen: and then went to find out where it was.
[3203.2] Stephen: But, yeah, it's not a perfect system.
[3207.2] Stephen: We do hear that DJI is probably bringing out a successor
[3210.2] Stephen: for their kind of prosumer drone series soon,
[3214.2] Stephen: so maybe that finds its way into FPV,
[3217.2] Stephen: and maybe it doesn't.
[3218.2] Stephen: I have to wait and see.
[3220.2] Curry: Well, they're always bringing out something new, aren't they?
[3223.2] Stephen: Yeah.
[3225.2] Stephen: Well, and GoPro has released something new,
[3227.2] Stephen: but I think we've all seen
[3228.2] Stephen: that they've really just changed the name on it.
[3230.2] Stephen: That's not the same.
[3231.2] Stephen: It's not different to previous years.
[3234.2] Curry: Yeah, I think we had the discussion about that
[3236.2] Curry: when you were off,
[3237.2] Curry: about like one of the problems is
[3240.2] Curry: they've slightly increased what it can do,
[3243.2] Curry: but I think they've kept the same processor in there,
[3245.2] Curry: which was already running far too hot as it was,
[3248.2] Curry: and that's just going to boil in the bag.
[3251.2] Stephen: Yeah, that's not great.
[3253.2] Stephen: And when I was in Croatia,
[3255.2] Stephen: a few people had the Insta360,
[3257.2] Stephen: and I think they wanted to like them
[3259.2] Stephen: because they've got good optics,
[3261.2] Stephen: they've got a great sensor,
[3263.2] Stephen: but they just weren't doing things right for some reason.
[3266.2] Stephen: People just found it hard to put on the quad
[3269.2] Stephen: or hard to get into their workflow,
[3271.2] Stephen: and for whatever reason,
[3272.2] Stephen: GoPro are in that niche
[3274.2] Stephen: where they know their market well enough
[3276.2] Stephen: that everyone has already learned the problems with GoPros,
[3279.2] Stephen: and they don't need to go and do any workarounds
[3282.2] Stephen: or hacks to get them running.
[3284.2] Stephen: It's a known quantity,
[3285.2] Stephen: whereas Insta360, I feel,
[3287.2] Stephen: never made it to that known quantity.
[3289.2] Stephen: They're always surprising their customers
[3291.2] Stephen: by not behaving the way that people expect them to,
[3294.2] Stephen: like GoPro do.
[3295.2] Curry: Yeah, I'm still deciding
[3300.05] Curry: whether to get an Insta360 X3
[3306.05] Curry: for my next holiday in January
[3311.05] Curry: on the basis that when I go snorkeling
[3313.05] Curry: and point it at a fish,
[3315.05] Curry: if the fish goes behind me or something,
[3318.05] Curry: maybe it'll work,
[3319.05] Curry: but it hasn't quite got the niceness
[3323.05] Curry: of what a GoPro can do there,
[3326.05] Curry: but at the same time,
[3328.05] Curry: you don't have to get it perfectly lined up
[3330.05] Curry: at the same time,
[3331.05] Curry: and it's less likely to just suddenly go beep-beep-beep
[3333.05] Curry: underwater and stop,
[3334.05] Curry: where I can't sort it out properly.
[3338.05] Jack: Should we call it there, guys?
[3340.05] Jack: I think we've done our quota.
[3345.05] Stephen: Done our quota.
[3348.05] Stephen: Well, I was going to say it's ugly for everyone,
[3351.05] Stephen: but yeah, if it's quota time, then...
[3354.05] Jack: That's quota time.
[3356.05] Stephen: Yeah, I can't.
[3357.05] Jack: Yeah, I'm also on the Thursday night show tonight,
[3363.05] Jack: so if you like 80s music
[3366.05] Jack: and me with my try-and-traveling sex robot,
[3372.05] Jack: come over and join us on the Thursday night show.com
[3376.05] Jack: when playing from 12 to 1, I think,
[3381.05] Jack: so I'm always glad for the company
[3383.05] Jack: and always pleased to hear some LDO people in there,
[3387.05] Jack: so I've got to set up for that.
[3390.05] Stephen: Is that your time-traveling sex robot in the background?
[3394.9] Jack: Yeah, wave protocol.
[3397.9] UNKNOWN: Wave?
[3398.9] Jack: Yep, there you go.
[3400.9] Jack: It's just...
[3402.9] Stephen: Have a good show, Jack.
[3404.9] Stephen: Thank you to our Patreons.
[3406.9] Stephen: Thank you to everyone who's watching.
[3408.9] Stephen: If you haven't subscribed, go do it now.
[3412.9] Stephen: Like and subscribe.
[3414.9] Stephen: Oh, I feel so dirty saying it.
[3416.9] Stephen: Thanks, Jack.
[3418.9] Stephen: All right, thank you, everyone.
[3422.79] Stephen: Tonight, you have been joined by everyone's favourite curry kitten.
[3426.79] Stephen: Goodbye.
[3427.79] Stephen: The ever-present Jack.
[3429.79] Stephen: Good luck on the Thursday night show, Jack.
[3433.49] Stephen: And myself, Steve.
[3435.49] Stephen: Have a great week and catch you next time.
[3438.49] Stephen: Bye.
[3439.49] Stephen: Telemetry lost.