=== Let's Drone Out — Episode 433 ===
Title: LDO 433 - with special guests from OpenHD
Recorded: 2023-12-14
Hosts: Stephen "Belrik" Howell, Wayne "CurryKitten" Andrews, Andrew "Frank" Hyams, Jack "Brightontillifly" Nash
Guest(s): Max (OpenHD), Raphael (OpenHD), Thomas (OpenHD)
Total audience: 1,720
Platforms: YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0NM2Ds-_Zw); SoundCloud (http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/feeds.soundcloud.com/stream/1692003099-letsdroneout-ldo-433-with-special-guests-from-openhd.mp3)
=====================================

Check Out OpenHD Online:

https://openhdfpv.org/
https://openhd.gitbook.io/open-hd/

[0.0] Jack: Hello and you're listening to let's drone out and special thank you to our lovely patrons that help donate
[7.48] Jack: So that we could pay the editor to remove the swear words and silly things we say
[12.56] Jack: Massive. Thank you to call us campus art folk now Sam Dharma on with the show
[51.82] Rafael: Hello and welcome to let's burn out
[54.78] Rafael: This week coming to you from technical difficulties Center
[61.22] Rafael: episode
[62.54] Rafael: 433 we're really happy to be joined this week by the awesome team behind open HD
[68.82] Rafael: So you'll see everyone's favorite curry kitten myself
[73.38] Rafael: Steven and then we've got team from open HD. I'll let you introduce yourselves. I'm Rafael and
[80.18] Raphael (OpenHD): I'm
[81.7] Raphael (OpenHD): Basically doing all the platforming stuff of open HD
[85.86] Raphael (OpenHD): And a lot more
[87.98] Max (OpenHD): All right. I will continue. My name is Max. I'm basically the one who was responsible for all the hardware development at open HD
[97.54] Thomas (OpenHD): Excellent
[100.46] Thomas (OpenHD): I'm by far as you can see you the oldest guy
[104.98] Thomas (OpenHD): in the team
[106.7] Thomas (OpenHD): I'm following along the project since it was ever founded by
[111.1] Thomas (OpenHD): By beefy. I think it was back in
[114.58] Thomas (OpenHD): 2015 so I'm following it along for the last eight years and I try to give the project some guidance and
[123.7] Thomas (OpenHD): Keep the team motivated and see where we can
[127.7] Thomas (OpenHD): Let's see find unique selling porn so that open HD doesn't get a new to product
[133.82] Thomas (OpenHD): But is something special at the end of the day strategy
[138.1] Curry: Yes
[139.78] Curry: It's management. So it's like I guess we should start at the beginning because
[144.86] Curry: For some of our viewers here. They might not know the history behind
[149.78] Curry: open HD and before that Wi-Fi broadcast, so could you could you take us through where it came from and
[155.98] Curry: Why and how it all came about?
[159.34] Thomas (OpenHD): well, it began
[161.46] Thomas (OpenHD): 2015 I think and it was us it was founded by a guy called beefy and
[168.46] Thomas (OpenHD): That guy actually did a proof of concept that video streaming actually was possible with off the shelf
[176.02] Thomas (OpenHD): cheap hardware, so Wi-Fi sticks in term and
[180.58] Thomas (OpenHD): well, he published all that in an a online block and
[185.9] Thomas (OpenHD): Also provided some let's say basic information on how to to recreate that so some scripts and and information on how to
[195.62] Thomas (OpenHD): Redo it
[197.62] Thomas (OpenHD): and
[202.74] Raphael (OpenHD): Okay, let me take on
[206.74] Raphael (OpenHD): Quite impressive
[208.3] Raphael (OpenHD): was also that beefy had to talk with the
[212.7] Raphael (OpenHD): CCC and explained how rifle broadcast itself works and he also talked about his struggles how to get
[220.62] Raphael (OpenHD): really good
[222.42] Raphael (OpenHD): Let's say picture or in general data down to the ground station
[228.18] Raphael (OpenHD): Because Wi-Fi in itself is a very bad idea. I mean we do have acknowledgments
[234.34] Raphael (OpenHD): We do have retransmissions. We do have a lot that will
[238.74] Raphael (OpenHD): Increase the latency and we also do have a lot that can be interfered
[244.34] Raphael (OpenHD): so
[247.14] Raphael (OpenHD): The big problem of that was beefy did make this whole all a little bit out of a
[253.82] Raphael (OpenHD): programmer's perspective it was basically the link and
[257.3] Raphael (OpenHD): Not really how to get it working then people came and
[262.54] Raphael (OpenHD): Started to make scripts. Most of them were in Python. I
[266.42] Raphael (OpenHD): Mean people know that right now
[268.78] Raphael (OpenHD): and and then
[271.98] Raphael (OpenHD): The road see what's in your it's its name if I'm correct. I don't really know the pronunciation
[278.54] Raphael (OpenHD): Rodizio, okay, and
[280.58] Raphael (OpenHD): He created easy Wi-Fi broadcast and the basic idea was to make this all
[286.82] Raphael (OpenHD): easy, I mean, it's the name and
[289.98] Rafael: People started a technical demo from the Chaos Computer Club, right?
[293.74] Rafael: Which is this is famous German collective a group with the hacker demos and reverse engineering, right?
[299.62] Rafael: So very low-level perspective and then evolved from there
[303.7] Raphael (OpenHD): Yeah, the cool thing is even for somebody who doesn't have a lot of technology in his mind or knowledge there
[310.9] Raphael (OpenHD): You can still watch the talk and you understand what he talks about. It's really basic and
[317.14] Raphael (OpenHD): it shows how complex this task gets if you want to optimize something and
[324.22] Raphael (OpenHD): Let's say after easy bro Wi-Fi broadcast was pretty popular
[331.46] Raphael (OpenHD): People noticed that
[334.14] Raphael (OpenHD): Just tons of scripts that need to be loaded was just too much for some of the people
[341.1] Raphael (OpenHD): so in about
[344.02] Raphael (OpenHD): 2018 open HD was started
[346.82] Raphael (OpenHD): and open HD basically is
[349.9] Raphael (OpenHD): the successor of
[351.74] Raphael (OpenHD): Easy Wi-Fi broadcast and we do still use a link that was developed by beefy called Wi-Fi broadcast
[361.14] Raphael (OpenHD): We just optimized it a lot
[363.26] Raphael (OpenHD): I mean it all started with a little C and a little Python script and here and there a little OSD that was added
[370.74] Raphael (OpenHD): But in general open HD at least in the Evo time
[375.7] Raphael (OpenHD): Completely rewrote that so nowadays our easy wife
[380.46] Raphael (OpenHD): Our rifle broadcast is completely incompatible with anything that was before we do have a lot more features
[387.78] Raphael (OpenHD): we do look at the link a lot more we do have modes that just are possible like
[394.58] Raphael (OpenHD): 40 megahertz mode that allows us to
[397.34] Raphael (OpenHD): Push a lot more through the link like before. I mean in easy Wi-Fi broadcast time. We were talking about 8 megabits
[406.42] Raphael (OpenHD): Open HD HD with the newest version can do nearly 30. So it's a lot more
[413.22] Raphael (OpenHD): I mean, yes, if you go up with the bandwidth, you will also lose range
[418.22] Raphael (OpenHD): You will lose stability and such but it is basically possible
[423.22] Rafael: Right. And if I remember correctly Wi-Fi broadcast is just a generic channel
[427.86] Rafael: And you've done a lot of work to tune it specifically for video and synchronize some of the the packet sizings and things with with video
[437.02] Raphael (OpenHD): right, yeah
[438.86] Raphael (OpenHD): Generally, we speak of Wi-Fi broadcast as a packet spammer
[442.26] Raphael (OpenHD): it is just spamming packets that we create into the wide via Wi-Fi and the ground station receives this and
[451.18] Raphael (OpenHD): Deep packet sizes and
[453.18] Raphael (OpenHD): Will in the end render and display it I can talk a little bit about the display problems and shut such things later
[461.38] Raphael (OpenHD): But I think that is a basic
[465.02] Raphael (OpenHD): One thing I really want to mention is also they are some
[472.9] Raphael (OpenHD): How do I say it there are some claims that we are using Wi-Fi broadcast NG
[478.1] Raphael (OpenHD): But Wi-Fi broadcast NG is completely different and
[482.34] Raphael (OpenHD): There isn't even one line of code in open HD. That is similar
[487.58] Raphael (OpenHD): so just to have the state to say that
[493.82] Raphael (OpenHD): Basically, this is
[496.14] Raphael (OpenHD): history of open HD and Wi-Fi broadcast
[499.46] Thomas (OpenHD): Combined into a very small block speaking of easy Wi-Fi broadcast
[505.38] Thomas (OpenHD): You have to to also realize that easy Wi-Fi broadcast was mainly based on
[511.46] Thomas (OpenHD): Bash scripting. So it was a huge a monstrous bash script
[517.18] Thomas (OpenHD): literally
[518.34] Thomas (OpenHD): Thousands of lines of best scripting. It was really really really ugly and
[522.66] Thomas (OpenHD): And it it reached a point where it was very very
[527.86] Rafael: guys
[530.46] Rafael: In any to Wi-Fi booster in the shed, I think
[533.58] Raphael (OpenHD): Yeah, I think so. I believe Thomas was
[537.74] Raphael (OpenHD): Wanting to say that it was really hard to control. So there was thousands of lines of code and
[544.94] Raphael (OpenHD): Basically all best scripts and bash is cool to tinker
[549.18] Raphael (OpenHD): But it is anything but professional and it is also pretty unstable if you do it in the long term
[555.98] Curry: So it's been rewritten in C now for the latest version
[560.14] Raphael (OpenHD): Not even that it did actually got rewritten in C by Steven
[568.42] Raphael (OpenHD): that was open HD do 2.0 project or let's say the version and
[574.66] Raphael (OpenHD): when Consti and me took over and
[578.66] Raphael (OpenHD): worked on the
[581.5] Raphael (OpenHD): 2.2 2.3 and on so we just call this evil
[586.18] Raphael (OpenHD): and
[587.02] Raphael (OpenHD): Consti started to completely rewrite it in C++
[591.54] Raphael (OpenHD): And that is just a lot more
[593.74] Raphael (OpenHD): performance optimized and we also included stuff like our forward error connection is completely in hardware and not in software like before and
[605.74] Raphael (OpenHD): We constantly edit so
[610.22] Rafael: So we've got a couple of phases. We've got that early Wi-Fi broadcast
[614.66] Rafael: Research project really and then open HD started to collate these scripts and make them easier to manage
[621.02] Rafael: But it was kind of unheard of until
[623.9] Rafael: Well a very small audience until it reached for version 2 and version 2 started making headlines
[630.26] Rafael: with this I think Steven who was writing that then
[633.94] Rafael: He kind of left the project and left it in the state where it was half finished and lots of people had to dive in
[639.98] Rafael: And push it forward and now you're doing 2.2 2.3
[643.7] Rafael: And things are getting more optimized. Is that that roughly story so far? So I actually joined
[652.18] Raphael (OpenHD): Nearly at the time where Steven left a little bit before that but yeah
[657.1] Raphael (OpenHD): We had the problem that there was a project that wasn't really great documented and nobody really understood it
[663.98] Raphael (OpenHD): so a lot of it was rewritten and
[668.22] Raphael (OpenHD): That's what open HD Evo is now. It's basically the the
[672.66] Raphael (OpenHD): complete
[674.7] Raphael (OpenHD): Philosophy behind it, but it's done in a different
[679.14] Raphael (OpenHD): theoretically more easy and more
[683.06] Raphael (OpenHD): Usable terms we also take
[685.74] Raphael (OpenHD): good pride in making a lot of comments in our code and having a wiki that is constantly updated to just
[694.46] Raphael (OpenHD): never have the
[696.14] Raphael (OpenHD): Have somebody experience the same problem like we did so just cleaning up after someone
[702.26] Raphael (OpenHD): It's really a bad idea. We took
[704.94] Raphael (OpenHD): Nearly a year to get this mess into a working state
[709.74] Curry: So just to go back a second just so I'm trying to think of an easy way of
[714.74] Curry: imagining this if I think of like the Wi-Fi broadcast is like
[719.14] Curry: Imagine we had a regular network and we had TCP and all the overheads of having different types of packets
[725.98] Curry: Essentially what you've done is is it right is like instead of TCP. We've written a whole new
[731.26] Curry: Layer for that. So we've got like the hardware layer and then we're putting our new protocol in it
[735.86] Curry: Which is more optimized and raw and we can send much more stuff that way. I
[741.78] Raphael (OpenHD): mean
[742.9] Raphael (OpenHD): That's hard to describe to be completely honest in general. We are still using UDP not TCP
[751.14] Raphael (OpenHD): but the
[753.1] Raphael (OpenHD): complete hardware layer is
[755.22] Raphael (OpenHD): Custom basically we use something called monitor mode and packet injection and it really allows us to build these packets we send
[764.06] Raphael (OpenHD): completely
[765.7] Raphael (OpenHD): from start to begin to the end I mean a normal Wi-Fi packet has something like the MAC address and a
[774.3] Raphael (OpenHD): Lot of data inside we use every bit of the message to put data in it even the MAC address
[781.98] Raphael (OpenHD): so
[783.3] Raphael (OpenHD): It's basically
[785.26] Raphael (OpenHD): Wi-Fi broadcast but on stereo steroids or how you call that in English
[789.7] Rafael: It's it's not Ethernet at all. In other words, you bypass the Ethernet framing completely. You just get a radio channel
[795.9] Rafael: You're not quite an SDR, but you're as close as you can get to an SDR with a regular Wi-Fi adapter
[802.5] Raphael (OpenHD): Basically, we would like to be an S to use SDRs for it
[806.5] Raphael (OpenHD): But we did some research in that area, but it is just too expensive to get a product out there
[813.46] Raphael (OpenHD): And nobody really wants to pay a thousand dollars for an receiver. Yeah, I would overtake a little bit and
[821.7] Raphael (OpenHD): go from
[823.78] Raphael (OpenHD): History of open HD to what we now are and what our focuses are currently if that is okay
[832.58] Raphael (OpenHD): Also, if there are any question, please
[836.34] Raphael (OpenHD): Use the chat
[838.58] Raphael (OpenHD): Currently, I can't type in it because of a brother problem
[842.9] Rafael: Comments about using UDP to lower latency, which is what you do in a regular network
[847.86] Rafael: But you guys are not even bothering with that. Are you just cutting straight through everything?
[853.02] Curry: We we don't need ports and stuff which just fire it down the fire down the wire or not wire
[859.14] Curry: Yeah, if there's any one application, right?
[861.7] Raphael (OpenHD): It's actually it was more than one application to some extent
[866.94] Raphael (OpenHD): When steve started rewriting it it was a bunch of services and micro services that work together
[873.58] Raphael (OpenHD): But right now we are actually one application for the link. It's open hd
[878.94] Rafael: I meant from the links perspective. Yeah, you don't need ports because it's just uh, it's just open hd on the link
[886.3] Raphael (OpenHD): yeah, I mean we do some check sums and such things, but I think it's just
[892.7] Raphael (OpenHD): Not the place to discuss about this it's just the user won't really
[898.78] Raphael (OpenHD): Have any advantage if they know
[901.42] Raphael (OpenHD): Exactly how the link or not how the link works
[905.26] Raphael (OpenHD): but like the how the rf works because when I
[909.18] Curry: Last flew I was on the old version and the evo was just being released
[914.7] Curry: Which I haven't got around to testing yet because
[917.66] Curry: Busyness weather laziness etc. So i'm keen to know what's what's been happening since that time
[924.14] Raphael (OpenHD): So, um, let me start with uh, I mean I can
[928.78] Raphael (OpenHD): Talk about every nick and everything in open hd that would take hours
[934.54] Raphael (OpenHD): But uh the main points that open hd evo brought to the table
[938.54] Raphael (OpenHD): And one of this is just a usability
[941.9] Raphael (OpenHD): so
[942.78] Raphael (OpenHD): earlier in open hd two or even earlier
[947.1] Raphael (OpenHD): We had a really big config file. You need to edit specific settings that are
[953.18] Raphael (OpenHD): Not easy to read stuff like hey i'm using mcs3
[957.58] Raphael (OpenHD): I want this bandwidth. I want this I want this pipeline
[961.58] Raphael (OpenHD): And that's just not open hd anymore
[964.54] Raphael (OpenHD): Basically, we try to make it as user friendly as possible that starts with our image writer
[971.26] Raphael (OpenHD): that's
[972.7] Raphael (OpenHD): Inspired by the recipe pie imager. It's basically a little tool
[978.06] Raphael (OpenHD): that will allow us to
[980.94] Raphael (OpenHD): Select the image the user wants
[983.5] Raphael (OpenHD): Add the settings we want and flash it to the drive
[986.78] Raphael (OpenHD): So basically we have reduced it down to let's say four settings
[991.82] Raphael (OpenHD): It's basically the camera if you want encryption what encryption key you want
[996.86] Raphael (OpenHD): And that's
[998.06] Raphael (OpenHD): Basically it we do have uh debug modes or something
[1001.9] Raphael (OpenHD): But the normal user just starts the software
[1006.14] Raphael (OpenHD): Selects it a selected spot maybe a recipe pie or something else
[1011.82] Raphael (OpenHD): And just say says I want to flash version 2.5. That's actually the one that we are about to release
[1020.54] Raphael (OpenHD): and uh
[1021.74] Raphael (OpenHD): It will take care of everything
[1024.46] Raphael (OpenHD): And when you have flashed it you can simply plug it in the pie and it works
[1029.66] Raphael (OpenHD): There's no binding nothing. It's just all done before
[1034.86] Raphael (OpenHD): And that doesn't mean that you also have the best image quality
[1040.3] Raphael (OpenHD): You can't tweak that in our OSD. Our OSD is completely dynamic
[1045.98] Raphael (OpenHD): That means we do have settings like
[1051.9] Raphael (OpenHD): What camera do you want what uh
[1055.26] Raphael (OpenHD): If you want to adjust saturation exposure and everything just like it was possible in 2.0
[1061.9] Raphael (OpenHD): Just a little bit extended because we also added a lot of new cameras and they need
[1067.5] Raphael (OpenHD): A lot of more work to get working in the state. We wanted to I would like to to point out
[1073.98] Thomas (OpenHD): What uh our let's say what the strategic goal of open HD actually is because there are a lot of
[1082.04] Thomas (OpenHD): ftb solutions out there today's but
[1085.26] Thomas (OpenHD): Open HD as it is has always tried to be the swiss army knife in the ftb area
[1092.62] Thomas (OpenHD): So you've got lots and lots of possibilities and you can fly with lots and lots of combinations of different hardware
[1101.26] Thomas (OpenHD): single camera multi-camera
[1103.66] Thomas (OpenHD): uh
[1105.18] Thomas (OpenHD): Data link yes and no our c yes and no telemetry bi-directional uni-directional
[1111.26] Thomas (OpenHD): You name it you can do lots and lots of of stuff
[1114.78] Thomas (OpenHD): It it it really there's no limit
[1118.38] Thomas (OpenHD): Just your imagination what you can do with open HD
[1121.82] Thomas (OpenHD): And that comes along with tons of options really tons of options and open HD
[1128.86] Thomas (OpenHD): And that's what what Raphael tries to point out here is we tried to make all these options all these great possibilities and the
[1138.92] Thomas (OpenHD): numerous
[1140.14] Thomas (OpenHD): ways of how to configure things
[1142.94] Thomas (OpenHD): easy for the user
[1144.94] Thomas (OpenHD): so
[1146.3] Thomas (OpenHD): It all came from a very very very complex config script
[1151.66] Thomas (OpenHD): literally hundreds of lines that nobody anymore could understand and we are trying to make that let's say
[1160.2] Thomas (OpenHD): manageable for the user and and that's that is what Raphael just points out with the image flasher and
[1167.18] Thomas (OpenHD): uh
[1168.06] Thomas (OpenHD): The the configurable configurable osd and stuff like that
[1172.62] Thomas (OpenHD): That's that's just what I wanted to say. So so look at open hd as the swiss army knife of fb
[1179.9] Rafael: And your users don't have to go and read i treblee standards on uh ethernet and wi-fi
[1185.98] Rafael: They don't have no more fun reading all these standards. They won't even need to know what uh mcs is anymore. It's
[1192.62] Curry: I think that was one of the major
[1195.9] Curry: Releases with the evo is with the option to use
[1199.18] Curry: More cameras because previously it was sort of stuck to these
[1202.7] Curry: Raspberry by compatible cameras and then you got some sort of usb library and they didn't view which opened up
[1208.3] Curry: To a bunch of other things
[1210.78] Raphael (OpenHD): Yeah in general we support
[1214.3] Raphael (OpenHD): Let's say everything but not really um, we can start with uh, let's how it would do that perfectly
[1222.78] Raphael (OpenHD): um
[1224.38] Raphael (OpenHD): Previously the best camera in open hd 2 2.0 was this one
[1230.54] Raphael (OpenHD): It's a really big
[1233.1] Raphael (OpenHD): Camera called, uh, it's even autos. Yeah, it's uh, you can't use it on a drone. That's just bad
[1240.46] Raphael (OpenHD): It's a imx 477
[1243.02] Raphael (OpenHD): or a raspycam hq
[1245.34] Raphael (OpenHD): um
[1246.7] Raphael (OpenHD): We did a lot of camera work
[1248.14] Rafael: So I have used a lot of different cameras, but really there's a an optimal set of cameras users should be exactly
[1255.26] Raphael (OpenHD): so, uh
[1256.22] Raphael (OpenHD): Since we are talking about cameras. We must uh talk about our corporations or um
[1263.18] Raphael (OpenHD): What it's the right word, uh our partners so
[1266.7] Raphael (OpenHD): Early on in evo
[1268.3] Raphael (OpenHD): We noticed the problem with cameras. So
[1270.94] Raphael (OpenHD): the most
[1272.46] Raphael (OpenHD): Used camera with this one
[1274.38] Raphael (OpenHD): This is a vi camera
[1276.22] Raphael (OpenHD): And that was around 100 and it's bulky. It's really ugly. It even needs external camera as well
[1284.38] Raphael (OpenHD): Uh
[1285.42] Raphael (OpenHD): What did you say? Sorry, it's uh two stacked boards as well. Yeah, exactly. It's uh useless
[1291.66] Raphael (OpenHD): So we looked about into the market. What did they are?
[1295.18] Raphael (OpenHD): So they are the vi cameras that is this one I had they only have other models, but they are all big
[1302.38] Raphael (OpenHD): And one thing is those big cameras were also very expensive
[1306.7] Raphael (OpenHD): So we talked to adocam about it
[1309.5] Raphael (OpenHD): And we started to cooperate and we cooperate quite quite closely
[1313.74] Raphael (OpenHD): to that extent that we
[1315.82] Raphael (OpenHD): usually talk to them
[1319.1] Raphael (OpenHD): Inmates every week
[1321.1] Raphael (OpenHD): So we do a lot of development with them and it ended in
[1326.46] Raphael (OpenHD): Let me see if yes in this camera
[1330.06] Raphael (OpenHD): this is currently the
[1332.06] Raphael (OpenHD): Normally used camera for open hd. That's tiny
[1335.26] Raphael (OpenHD): Yes, it's yeah
[1337.58] Raphael (OpenHD): It is very yeah, I hold it to my face because it is focusing there
[1341.98] Raphael (OpenHD): It's pretty tiny in comparison to the other camera. So
[1346.46] Rafael: It's wow. Okay
[1349.1] Rafael: And you got to do your camera as well, didn't you because they were incredibly expensive and I think you were saying on chat
[1354.78] Raphael (OpenHD): Do you actually help bring the prices down for those? Yeah, we had a few discussions and there
[1360.54] Raphael (OpenHD): we actually or
[1362.78] Raphael (OpenHD): Let's say adocam asked us if we want to
[1366.62] Raphael (OpenHD): say this camera as
[1369.34] Raphael (OpenHD): Project together so we would get a little
[1373.18] Raphael (OpenHD): Money from that and they would get the huge part, but we decided to not do it
[1378.3] Raphael (OpenHD): We just said make it as cheap as possible. So these cameras are about 36 dollars
[1386.22] Rafael: Sometime hosts would like to know if max wants to talk
[1393.02] Raphael (OpenHD): I think the problem already
[1395.42] Raphael (OpenHD): Yeah, the problem is i'm just a person that talks a lot
[1400.46] Raphael (OpenHD): And normally this would have been thomas's job, but I just overtook him because the link is just
[1407.34] Rafael: We didn't really go through um
[1409.58] Rafael: Different roles. I think we mentioned that the project is is larger than just you few people before the show started
[1415.98] Rafael: But there's a lot of people here
[1417.66] Rafael: We haven't got around to talking to max yet
[1419.58] Rafael: And there's a whole bunch of other people who aren't on the call who are working the project
[1423.34] Max (OpenHD): Should we maybe do a little run? I I can try to explain it a bit. So, um
[1430.14] Max (OpenHD): We have rafael who is I mean he also already introduced himself
[1434.78] Max (OpenHD): He is doing most of the platform stuff. So supporting raspberry pi rats are boards and so on
[1442.38] Max (OpenHD): so most of the platform
[1444.6] Max (OpenHD): management
[1446.3] Max (OpenHD): I am doing most of the hardware development or basically all of the hardware development
[1452.86] Max (OpenHD): Which I assume
[1455.18] Max (OpenHD): Many people will have already heard about
[1457.74] Max (OpenHD): Um, we will go into a bit more detail about these things later. I mean looking at the time, but yeah
[1467.42] Max (OpenHD): Thomas basically takes care of most of the
[1471.9] Max (OpenHD): team leading and administrative tasks
[1475.34] Max (OpenHD): There is
[1476.44] Max (OpenHD): Constantine he isn't here today sadly because he's busy
[1480.22] Max (OpenHD): But he is basically the one who is writing most of the low level
[1486.06] Max (OpenHD): code
[1487.42] Max (OpenHD): And then there's also pete who is helping me a lot with our
[1492.3] Max (OpenHD): Well often called custom hardware
[1495.5] Max (OpenHD): Um, he's the one who takes care of most of the operating system and driver stuff on that side
[1504.14] Max (OpenHD): Yeah
[1505.66] Max (OpenHD): I think that's that's according. Yes active developers. There's also
[1512.22] Max (OpenHD): roman
[1513.18] Max (OpenHD): who takes care of the integrated web ui which can be used for downloading video files and so on from the
[1522.3] Max (OpenHD): video transmitter basically
[1524.94] Max (OpenHD): yeah
[1526.7] Raphael (OpenHD): yeah, we do also have a lot of color collaborations from others, but
[1531.18] Raphael (OpenHD): uh
[1532.54] Raphael (OpenHD): We do not directly mention them here. We do
[1536.62] Raphael (OpenHD): We do have a credits page in our app
[1539.74] Raphael (OpenHD): And there you can see the core team and the most important collaborations are also mentioned
[1546.46] Raphael (OpenHD): It's just something
[1547.98] Raphael (OpenHD): we really want to
[1550.14] Raphael (OpenHD): Take care of I mean everybody that puts time and heart into our project
[1556.06] Raphael (OpenHD): And should be mentioned somewhere. So we try to do that
[1560.06] Thomas (OpenHD): So what max just pointed out was more or less the core team
[1564.38] Thomas (OpenHD): But let's say around the core team. There's also a lot of
[1569.0] Thomas (OpenHD): developers
[1570.38] Thomas (OpenHD): Let's say dev testers. So we have got about let's say 30 really
[1576.3] Thomas (OpenHD): highly invested
[1578.86] Thomas (OpenHD): testers
[1579.98] Thomas (OpenHD): That try to test every shit out of the new software
[1584.22] Thomas (OpenHD): They're really really dedicated to it
[1586.62] Thomas (OpenHD): And uh, I have to to shoot out a big things also our testers team
[1592.62] Thomas (OpenHD): Yeah, that is really awesome work what they do
[1597.34] Raphael (OpenHD): Thomas I was asked to not name them personally just to say that
[1602.86] Thomas (OpenHD): That's why I didn't mention any names
[1606.22] Rafael: It's just I was asked and I will do yeah, I think we should all be really grateful to the people who do testing in fpv because
[1613.74] Rafael: testing something on a web browser
[1615.9] Rafael: It's not a big problem test something in fpv
[1618.86] Rafael: If it doesn't work, then you may be spending real money or wading through mud and trying to find things. So
[1626.78] Thomas (OpenHD): They're great people and there's another thing that i'm
[1629.98] Thomas (OpenHD): good to mention or to
[1632.46] Thomas (OpenHD): Continue what you just started raffle you you were starting to talk about cameras and what cameras are good and bad stuff like that
[1640.14] Thomas (OpenHD): I mean you didn't mention what the main challenge is, you know
[1644.54] Thomas (OpenHD): We are we are dealing with an fpv system and
[1647.98] Thomas (OpenHD): And the main the core component of an fpv system is a good video picture
[1652.54] Thomas (OpenHD): I mean an fpv system doesn't doesn't do anything if you have a crap camera, you know
[1658.14] Thomas (OpenHD): and
[1658.94] Thomas (OpenHD): From where we came or from where we started
[1662.46] Thomas (OpenHD): All those cameras that were available on the raspberry pi on the main platform that we started on
[1668.06] Thomas (OpenHD): They were basically more or less crap
[1671.02] Thomas (OpenHD): Some of them were really crap. Some of them were a little bit better
[1675.18] Thomas (OpenHD): But most of them were not suitable for what we wanted to do with
[1679.58] Thomas (OpenHD): so the main challenge was finding the correct and nice performing camera for the task that we needed it for
[1686.86] Thomas (OpenHD): And that is where where the collaboration with ardu cam
[1691.34] Thomas (OpenHD): Really kicked in because those guys they are really experts on the field of cameras
[1696.86] Thomas (OpenHD): And they they they took the challenge to build exactly the cameras that we needed
[1703.26] Thomas (OpenHD): small form factor
[1705.26] Thomas (OpenHD): nice
[1706.3] Thomas (OpenHD): low light capabilities nice white dynamic range
[1710.22] Thomas (OpenHD): You know
[1711.1] Thomas (OpenHD): I mean an fpv system
[1712.46] Thomas (OpenHD): It doesn't help you much if you if you fly and and on all the upper screen
[1717.34] Thomas (OpenHD): It's just a white bar and all the lower screen is just a black bar. Yeah
[1722.54] Thomas (OpenHD): Because it's just hand coped with that dynamic range
[1726.46] Thomas (OpenHD): And that is what what what really helped and what really brought open hd forward
[1732.22] Thomas (OpenHD): Finding the right cameras and I think I think I can I can I can say that open hd is supporting
[1738.86] Thomas (OpenHD): Most camera solutions and the most amount of great cameras
[1743.98] Thomas (OpenHD): of any open source
[1745.98] Thomas (OpenHD): fpv system out there
[1747.98] Thomas (OpenHD): And that is due to that great cooperation with for example, ardu cam
[1752.46] Rafael: So
[1754.62] Rafael: People know where to buy fpv cameras. They've got preferred hobby retailers with ardu cam and these
[1761.34] Rafael: Other vendors is there a good shop where people can go maybe in europe or the us or uk?
[1768.62] Raphael (OpenHD): Yeah, I think the big problem there is that ardu cam isn't that?
[1773.34] Raphael (OpenHD): Into fpv they start and we even do have a page
[1778.22] Raphael (OpenHD): On ardu cam's website about open hd which lists all the cameras that are good
[1783.74] Raphael (OpenHD): And even has some example footage
[1787.58] Raphael (OpenHD): In general, there is a shop called eutronics that sales says about every ardu cam camera
[1794.3] Raphael (OpenHD): they are also
[1796.22] Raphael (OpenHD): Smaller shops, for example in germany
[1799.18] Raphael (OpenHD): W electron that has a few especially the one I recommend the 708
[1806.14] Raphael (OpenHD): It's available there
[1808.14] Raphael (OpenHD): It might be a little bit more expensive because they do actually need to pay taxes and
[1814.7] Raphael (OpenHD): Yeah, it isn't that simple
[1816.94] Raphael (OpenHD): but
[1818.94] Raphael (OpenHD): Let's say uh, since thomas talked about the
[1823.26] Raphael (OpenHD): I heard it right here
[1824.86] Raphael (OpenHD): about the camera problems we had
[1827.02] Raphael (OpenHD): um, I actually
[1828.86] Raphael (OpenHD): Started with this camera
[1830.62] Raphael (OpenHD): And most likely carrie noticed it. It's the first camera
[1835.34] Raphael (OpenHD): That carrie used in one of its videos
[1838.7] Raphael (OpenHD): it's
[1839.58] Raphael (OpenHD): actually funny, but it's
[1841.74] Raphael (OpenHD): Really bad
[1843.26] Curry: It's like if you took gasoline and smeared it into your eyes and then tried to look
[1848.78] Curry: That's that's what you can see
[1851.26] Rafael: Was that the one that you managed to get caught in the propeller?
[1854.94] Curry: No, that was a decent camera
[1856.3] Curry: This is the one that went on the little car I made and drove around rock
[1859.9] Curry: And then I was like is that a person? I can't is it is this a person who knows?
[1864.38] Raphael (OpenHD): Yeah, that camera is totally awful
[1867.02] Raphael (OpenHD): That's also a challenge with other boards because most boards do not come with camera support
[1872.46] Raphael (OpenHD): So the recipe pie is what we mostly are known for. I have a little def thingy with the pie zero inside
[1880.06] Raphael (OpenHD): Um, but that isn't all open hd started to invest into new hardware relatively early even with steven and the
[1887.96] Raphael (OpenHD): Nanopie
[1889.42] Raphael (OpenHD): And the jetson
[1891.26] Raphael (OpenHD): But basically we never found a suitable system. I mean we had the jetson
[1896.7] Raphael (OpenHD): nvidia just dropped any software support and didn't finish the project to the extent that wanted
[1903.82] Raphael (OpenHD): And uh just released a new platform for I think it starts at 600 us dollars
[1908.94] Rafael: They're so they've always been so expensive compared to the raspberry pie. It's totally user useless
[1914.94] Rafael: And they're very big as well if you're going to put them in something that's not a car or a rover
[1918.86] Raphael (OpenHD): It's very difficult. So I just opened another box
[1922.62] Raphael (OpenHD): And we we started to work together with red star and they also support us
[1928.86] Raphael (OpenHD): And they for example, it's not the best board came out with this. This is exactly the same size like the raspberry pie four
[1937.74] Raphael (OpenHD): it came out with
[1940.52] Raphael (OpenHD): $100 price so
[1942.76] Raphael (OpenHD): Not really what we wanted the size isn't great
[1945.96] Raphael (OpenHD): but
[1947.4] Raphael (OpenHD): nowadays, those are 60 bucks
[1949.88] Raphael (OpenHD): and
[1950.68] Raphael (OpenHD): they can do
[1952.52] Raphael (OpenHD): Quite quite fancy stuff
[1954.92] Raphael (OpenHD): Generally, the hardware is a lot more potent
[1958.2] Raphael (OpenHD): We can say it can encode up to 8k 30 fps
[1963.56] Raphael (OpenHD): um 1080p
[1966.12] Raphael (OpenHD): 200 180 something like that. So it's really potent and decoding is the same it's
[1972.76] Raphael (OpenHD): really overpowered
[1974.28] Raphael (OpenHD): So we started to work on that and together with auto cam we created camera support for the 708
[1981.24] Raphael (OpenHD): And for another camera, we usually recommend it's a low light camera, but basically it's still too huge
[1988.84] Raphael (OpenHD): so and expensive so then we started to work together on
[1993.64] Raphael (OpenHD): Something the form factor like the compute model of the pie
[1998.04] Raphael (OpenHD): Um, and that is because we built the ocean board a few years back
[2002.84] Raphael (OpenHD): It's basically the same size of the pie four
[2006.28] Raphael (OpenHD): compute module and it do does have
[2010.44] Raphael (OpenHD): Bcs and and everything on board
[2013.48] Raphael (OpenHD): But it's still limited by the pie specs
[2016.44] Rafael: So I have the redstone cm3. It's I was going to spell that out. I think it's r ad xa
[2023.88] Raphael (OpenHD): Yeah, exactly. That's a cm3. That isn't as potent like the rock five
[2030.04] Raphael (OpenHD): But it can do 1080p 100 hertz encoding and decoding
[2035.0] Raphael (OpenHD): So that was a big step forward, but it's still
[2038.6] Raphael (OpenHD): 30 plus a 40 dollar base. So it's expensive
[2043.32] Raphael (OpenHD): now
[2044.44] Raphael (OpenHD): Sorry, I try to rush a little bit. So we don't spend hours on something now. We have this
[2051.08] Raphael (OpenHD): It's a red star zero three
[2053.8] Raphael (OpenHD): It starts at 15 us dollars
[2056.84] Raphael (OpenHD): It can do 1080p 100
[2061.0] Raphael (OpenHD): Officially 1080p 60
[2063.56] Raphael (OpenHD): h264 h265
[2066.12] Raphael (OpenHD): We talk about encoding decoding 4k 30
[2070.44] Raphael (OpenHD): so also 1080p 100 and 1080p 60 and
[2076.42] Raphael (OpenHD): 720p 120 is all possible with the board starting at 15
[2082.76] Raphael (OpenHD): The big problem there is we need camera support
[2086.2] Raphael (OpenHD): And getting cameras tuned is really expensive
[2090.2] Raphael (OpenHD): I mean in the beginning of opmhd we asked around
[2094.2] Raphael (OpenHD): and most of our
[2097.56] Raphael (OpenHD): Yeah of our talks came to a sum of about ten thousand dollars per camera
[2103.48] Raphael (OpenHD): And that's just not doable
[2105.8] Raphael (OpenHD): But when we started together with adocam
[2109.32] Raphael (OpenHD): They do the service first
[2111.16] Raphael (OpenHD): So we are in the process of tuning cameras with them
[2116.82] Raphael (OpenHD): Especially for fpv. So this is one of the big advantages with this board
[2124.76] Raphael (OpenHD): But
[2125.96] Raphael (OpenHD): I think
[2127.48] Raphael (OpenHD): coming up I think
[2130.12] Raphael (OpenHD): The thing everybody is waiting for is what max have to tell us max the big reveal
[2139.16] Thomas (OpenHD): But please let me let me sum up so far what we have heard so we have heard about cameras different cameras, you know
[2145.8] Thomas (OpenHD): That's one dimension
[2147.48] Thomas (OpenHD): But the second dimension that that that is what rafael just
[2151.64] Thomas (OpenHD): Rushed us rushed us through. Yes
[2155.0] Thomas (OpenHD): How dependent are we on sbc's on think about computers?
[2158.52] Thomas (OpenHD): So we started being stuck on raspberry pi and raspberry pi you all know it
[2164.28] Thomas (OpenHD): They had a big availability issue when corona hit
[2168.92] Thomas (OpenHD): when cobalt hit
[2170.28] Thomas (OpenHD): And and they were absolutely not available anymore or they were
[2176.6] Rafael: Immensely price pricing and they prefer to sell to companies instead of hobbyists and individuals
[2185.0] Thomas (OpenHD): And we make or we made the the strategic decision to not
[2191.0] Thomas (OpenHD): being stuck on raspberry pi anymore, but we tried to to to to conquer new ground and support more
[2200.28] Thomas (OpenHD): platforms like
[2201.72] Thomas (OpenHD): rafael just said jets nano
[2204.68] Thomas (OpenHD): Rock chip
[2206.12] Thomas (OpenHD): and
[2207.24] Thomas (OpenHD): now let's say
[2208.76] Thomas (OpenHD): Uh a custom hardware that is made for open hd which
[2213.24] Thomas (OpenHD): max
[2214.12] Thomas (OpenHD): All will likely uh be the life show us
[2217.64] Frank: This episode was recorded in front of a live online audience downloaded and edited to make sense when it played audio only
[2224.36] Frank: Censored to please the itunes people hosted on the internet forwarded through to your podcast provider
[2229.16] Frank: Downloaded playing on your device and is now playing in your ears all. Thanks to our patreons
[2234.92] Frank: Consider joining them and you'll also get other online benefits
[2238.36] Frank: Find out more at patreon.com
[2241.4] Frank: Let's drone out
[2243.08] Max (OpenHD): I think it's best to first talk about the specs a little bit. Not too much but a bit
[2248.84] Max (OpenHD): And then I will ask offer to show um some pictures of it
[2253.4] Max (OpenHD): so as you might remember, um
[2256.44] Max (OpenHD): We basically started um developing custom hardware for open hd
[2261.64] Max (OpenHD): almost three years ago
[2263.8] Max (OpenHD): It definitely took a while and a lot longer than expected
[2267.72] Max (OpenHD): Um some I think curry you might remember we made a video about it once. Um, where
[2275.0] Max (OpenHD): we showcased
[2277.72] Max (OpenHD): Let's say some early concepts or renders of the hardware
[2281.96] Max (OpenHD): Yeah, um things have definitely changed since then. Um, maybe if you can just switch back to my view for now, um
[2291.72] Max (OpenHD): um, so
[2293.4] Max (OpenHD): You might remember it you might recognize it. So this is basically what it ended up looking as
[2299.4] Max (OpenHD): This is based on the rock chip soc which we used back then. Um
[2304.92] UNKNOWN: Um
[2306.28] Max (OpenHD): it
[2307.32] Max (OpenHD): Took a while and at some point we realized that it was just simply not feasible in our like quantities. Um
[2316.04] Max (OpenHD): I think I ended up paying
[2319.72] Max (OpenHD): 800 or 900 dollars for 10 of these boards without components and so on the complexity was just
[2327.48] Max (OpenHD): too high, um
[2329.48] Max (OpenHD): so about a year ago, um
[2331.72] Max (OpenHD): Pete and I started working on a new platform
[2334.92] Max (OpenHD): um
[2336.28] Max (OpenHD): Yeah, and you might have already seen it in the pictures which rava just had up on his screen
[2342.36] Max (OpenHD): so the new so this here is um a 30 by 30, um mounting hole board, uh 36 by 36 millimeters pcb outline
[2352.76] Max (OpenHD): the new one
[2354.52] Max (OpenHD): Is a single board setup. So this is two boards actually. So one side is processing and one side is rf
[2362.04] Max (OpenHD): um
[2363.64] Max (OpenHD): Yeah, so the new one is a single board which includes everything in one board. It's um
[2369.96] Max (OpenHD): 26 by 26 millimeters board outline
[2373.16] Max (OpenHD): Uh 20 by 20 millimeters mounting holes so it fits into pretty much every port that's out there
[2380.92] Max (OpenHD): Um, like I know many people don't use open hd for fpv quads
[2385.64] Max (OpenHD): Um, but I do so
[2387.96] Max (OpenHD): Um, we wanted it to fit. Um
[2390.6] Max (OpenHD): That was a big goal. So 20 by 20 mounting holes
[2394.12] Max (OpenHD): Um two to four as uh lipo battery input you're talking about compute
[2400.68] Thomas (OpenHD): and rf
[2402.92] Thomas (OpenHD): on one board 20 by 20
[2406.04] Max (OpenHD): Yeah
[2407.08] Max (OpenHD): So, um, this
[2409.08] Max (OpenHD): Is the board mounted in a 2.5 inch?
[2412.52] Max (OpenHD): diatom lumbar quad
[2415.48] Max (OpenHD): Um, I just happen to have it laying around so as you can see it fits
[2420.76] Max (OpenHD): It um
[2422.6] Max (OpenHD): Has uh four gigabytes of built-in storage
[2426.04] Max (OpenHD): Everything is included in one board. It comes with a custom cnc machined heatsink
[2433.24] Max (OpenHD): Um, yeah, what else is there for basic specs? So, um
[2438.84] Max (OpenHD): In terms of rf it should behave similar to a djal unit
[2445.32] Max (OpenHD): um
[2446.36] Max (OpenHD): We would like to take some accurate rf measurements, but sadly
[2452.04] Max (OpenHD): We don't quite have the budget for these tools
[2455.08] Max (OpenHD): So that would have to wait a bit but it does perform quite well
[2458.76] Rafael: Um, it's incredibly small compared to starting with a pi or even a pi zero. So that's exactly
[2465.24] Max (OpenHD): It's a point. Yeah, so like
[2468.36] Max (OpenHD): when
[2469.32] Curry: Yeah, continue. I was just gonna say max, but possibly the reason um, most people flew fixed wings was that you know
[2476.04] Curry: The latency on the pie's glass to glass was typically sort of 100 to 120 milliseconds
[2481.48] Curry: Does this new hardware mean it's been brought down into sort of more manageable?
[2486.6] Curry: Sort of thing so you can you can throw it around a little bit without getting too worried about higher latency
[2492.76] Max (OpenHD): It has definitely gotten better. I think this question is best answered by rafael actually
[2499.4] Raphael (OpenHD): Yeah in general we actually decided not to state complete numbers right now
[2505.24] Raphael (OpenHD): We are still fiddling around with the software and
[2509.72] Raphael (OpenHD): Reducing latency is a huge topic not only on the ground
[2514.04] Raphael (OpenHD): But also on the not only on the air but also on the ground
[2517.8] Raphael (OpenHD): So there are a few things that need to come together to make a good round station
[2523.64] Raphael (OpenHD): And to make a good experience
[2526.2] Raphael (OpenHD): basically
[2527.96] Raphael (OpenHD): The custom hardware or the x20. That's the name
[2531.72] Raphael (OpenHD): Can work with anything we have it can work on a pie can work on the red star boards on x86 on anything
[2539.48] Raphael (OpenHD): But we really recommend using
[2542.92] Raphael (OpenHD): A higher performance boards. So basically currently we are working on the zero two from red star
[2550.2] Raphael (OpenHD): Zero three to make it the perfect run station
[2554.28] Raphael (OpenHD): It's
[2555.32] Raphael (OpenHD): cheap
[2556.44] Raphael (OpenHD): and it can
[2558.04] Raphael (OpenHD): provide enough
[2560.04] Raphael (OpenHD): Power and latency. It's a lot better than the pie
[2563.08] Raphael (OpenHD): and basically the whole
[2565.72] Raphael (OpenHD): Reason behind going not with sprout com cpus and software was to reduce latency
[2573.32] Raphael (OpenHD): We try to measure it perfectly
[2575.72] Raphael (OpenHD): so we
[2577.08] Raphael (OpenHD): Will not just film a video and tell about something. It will be a scientific test
[2583.88] Rafael: That's very principled of you. I admire you for sticking to your guns and not going to the easy headlines
[2589.64] Raphael (OpenHD): Exactly. We try to I mean
[2593.16] Raphael (OpenHD): People who know page d know that we do sometimes take a little bit longer for
[2598.44] Raphael (OpenHD): For our releases
[2600.2] Raphael (OpenHD): But we test them and we test them throughly
[2602.92] Raphael (OpenHD): It is just a lot of work to test everything a thing
[2607.16] Raphael (OpenHD): I mean, it's very easy to just test a link
[2610.84] Raphael (OpenHD): I mean if I do only have a link that is 1080p 30 or 720p 60 and nothing else
[2617.64] Raphael (OpenHD): I can test it in a few hours
[2619.96] Raphael (OpenHD): If I do support tens of boards with different configurations
[2625.16] Raphael (OpenHD): You need testing and you need to test it really I mean what open hd also provides is stuff like
[2633.24] Raphael (OpenHD): we do support
[2635.96] Raphael (OpenHD): Antenna trackers on our ground station just connected it will work via my flick
[2640.92] Raphael (OpenHD): We do work with
[2643.08] Raphael (OpenHD): Or let's say we do have inaf support. We do have mission
[2647.24] Raphael (OpenHD): Auto plane autocopter we do nowadays have bitter flight support
[2651.64] Raphael (OpenHD): So basically we try to do everything but if you do everything it needs to be tested a lot
[2657.96] Raphael (OpenHD): And to do something perfectly and easy for the user to use give me time and money
[2664.04] Raphael (OpenHD): So to be completely honest, you need both
[2668.44] Curry: I can't get over how impressed I am with that board. I remember
[2672.44] Curry: Wiring up for the first time and everyone on the forum shouting at me because I hadn't wired up the usb directly
[2678.44] Curry: and what do you mean you're using a usb plug don't be ridiculous and then I got this massive board and then this
[2684.52] Curry: USB
[2685.72] Curry: Wi-fi adapter and i'm using the wrong antennas and a crap camera
[2689.8] Curry: And now it's come down to this tiny little 20 by 20 mounting board with rf and compute on the single board is amazing
[2696.52] Raphael (OpenHD): And we needed a lot of time to get the rf right I mean the first revisions we have just
[2703.32] Raphael (OpenHD): Looked perfectly consumed a lot of power and didn't output anything
[2707.4] Raphael (OpenHD): so
[2708.84] Raphael (OpenHD): really complex
[2711.0] Raphael (OpenHD): And we also need to
[2713.64] Raphael (OpenHD): make these boards
[2715.64] Raphael (OpenHD): Mostly on ourself. I mean we yes, we do
[2719.48] Raphael (OpenHD): produce the pcb's from
[2722.28] Raphael (OpenHD): A vendor let's say like that, but all the components on these boards you can see right now are hand soldered
[2730.2] Max (OpenHD): And all three of them are made by hand. So we have three prototypes right now
[2736.28] Max (OpenHD): You can see all three of them in that picture. That's the main work
[2740.44] Rafael: Yeah, they all work. Yeah, and I mean it's very neat soldering. That's uh,
[2744.84] Max (OpenHD): Fine, perfect at that
[2747.0] Max (OpenHD): It took quite a while to make
[2751.96] Max (OpenHD): So
[2753.08] Raphael (OpenHD): But there's a lot in
[2755.88] Raphael (OpenHD): Or let's say it's nice to see a picture, but it's even nicer
[2760.44] Raphael (OpenHD): to see the thing
[2762.76] Raphael (OpenHD): I basically have a prototype in my hand. It's not that neat and not that uh
[2769.46] Raphael (OpenHD): Minimized but it's basically our board with uh, I mean I don't have the new fancy cnc heatsink. I just have some
[2778.36] Raphael (OpenHD): rubber bands and
[2780.12] Raphael (OpenHD): black heatsink on it and uh antennas and everything but basically this is my
[2785.88] Raphael (OpenHD): Quad I use for debugging
[2787.88] Raphael (OpenHD): That's why I don't have the ducts here
[2790.12] Raphael (OpenHD): Because I need direct access to the sd card and the debugging ports. That's why I have a lot of wires here
[2796.44] Raphael (OpenHD): But basically we do not show a rendered image. We do show the product itself
[2802.44] Raphael (OpenHD): And that is something quite admiring
[2805.4] Rafael: Well done well done guys that must have been a big hill to climb so congratulations
[2811.8] Max (OpenHD): Yeah, it wasn't exactly easy. Let's put it that way
[2820.6] Raphael (OpenHD): We wouldn't be able to do that without patreon
[2823.32] Raphael (OpenHD): To be completely honest without these it wouldn't be possible. It is really expensive to do something
[2829.8] Raphael (OpenHD): And we do also need the support to break a project to make a project a product over the
[2838.36] Max (OpenHD): Three years that it really took I mean, yeah, I think that's a good time to say
[2842.92] Max (OpenHD): Thank you to our patreons. Some of them have stuck with us for
[2847.08] Max (OpenHD): Almost three years now. So thank you very much for everyone's patience. I know it's not been easy at times. Um,
[2854.6] Max (OpenHD): Yeah, especially after we decided
[2857.8] Max (OpenHD): To ditch this board and start from scratch again
[2861.4] Max (OpenHD): Um, well done
[2863.96] Max (OpenHD): It wasn't easy and it wasn't cheap. But uh after like a long time of waiting, I think we have
[2870.44] Max (OpenHD): Finally done it. We are currently working on producing a batch of um
[2876.92] Max (OpenHD): Presumably around 25 bots for testing purposes
[2880.76] Max (OpenHD): So they already work as I said makes sure
[2884.04] Max (OpenHD): Short
[2885.4] Max (OpenHD): And just wait a second
[2889.8] Max (OpenHD): They do work
[2891.16] Max (OpenHD): And but we are waiting for some user feedback like for example
[2895.32] Max (OpenHD): Soda pet size or maybe someone finds something that isn't great
[2900.12] Max (OpenHD): um
[2901.72] Max (OpenHD): Just general things and also for improving the software right now it works and it works reasonably well
[2908.04] Max (OpenHD): But it's not quite finished yet
[2910.68] Max (OpenHD): So, uh, these things just need like real world testing bench testing is fine for yeah, it works
[2917.0] Max (OpenHD): Yeah, I get a picture
[2918.52] Max (OpenHD): But it's not quite the same
[2921.32] Max (OpenHD): um, so yeah, the next step is to make a test batch of presumably 25 boards
[2928.04] Max (OpenHD): and then hand them out to our patreons
[2931.8] Max (OpenHD): and yeah after the software works we will
[2935.88] Max (OpenHD): Arrange some kind of
[2938.84] Max (OpenHD): I don't know availability system
[2941.8] Max (OpenHD): Let's put it that way
[2944.28] Thomas (OpenHD): Shout out to our testers again
[2946.68] Thomas (OpenHD): and
[2947.96] Thomas (OpenHD): Really who does go out to you because it's it's not only a small board
[2952.52] Thomas (OpenHD): I mean, it's it's amazing how small it is
[2954.76] Thomas (OpenHD): But but but the compute and the rf that is included it's really top notch. I mean it's it's not
[2962.2] Thomas (OpenHD): Cheap crap it's really compute and it's really our f
[2967.32] Thomas (OpenHD): There's lots of power in that board
[2969.72] Thomas (OpenHD): And and and doing that in such a small form factor
[2974.02] Thomas (OpenHD): imperfection without the need of
[2976.6] Thomas (OpenHD): Soldering here soldering soldering there at another back here at another back there. It's just black and play
[2985.16] Thomas (OpenHD): Push the software on it fly
[2987.8] Thomas (OpenHD): I mean it's
[2989.08] Thomas (OpenHD): It's mind-boggling. It's nice
[2993.64] Rafael: a huge change from where you started out exactly compare that yeah when I
[2998.76] Rafael: Never mind the pie you had a jetson board in there that was just huge and you put it in like a 10-inch quad
[3003.72] Rafael: And it'd be sticking out the side of the frame and now you can get it in a two and a half inch quad
[3007.64] Max (OpenHD): It's incredible. Yeah, that was like one of the most
[3012.36] Max (OpenHD): painful aspects of open hd for me like I joined
[3016.68] Max (OpenHD): I don't know at some point in 2019
[3019.8] Max (OpenHD): and
[3020.84] Max (OpenHD): It was
[3021.96] Max (OpenHD): Trying to make a raspberry pie fit
[3024.36] Max (OpenHD): But there's just no way to make a pie fit into a normal fpv quad
[3029.8] Max (OpenHD): Like you can do it with some 3d printing and so on but that's just
[3035.08] Max (OpenHD): janky
[3036.68] Max (OpenHD): I don't really like such setups. So, uh, yeah, we decided
[3040.76] Max (OpenHD): Um
[3042.52] Max (OpenHD): To make a smaller board and yeah, so this is what it looks like
[3046.6] Max (OpenHD): We do also have some videos of it like those are early tests
[3052.44] Max (OpenHD): one of which um
[3054.92] Max (OpenHD): Was is air recording so a very early encoder test
[3059.8] Max (OpenHD): You might be able to see it in the stream. I'm not sure there's some
[3063.72] Max (OpenHD): Maybe just switch to ruffles video
[3066.84] Max (OpenHD): Um, there are some artifacts towards the right side of the screen, right?
[3072.04] Max (OpenHD): I don't know. You may might be able to see it. You might not
[3075.64] Max (OpenHD): um
[3077.24] Max (OpenHD): Yeah, but this was one of the first line of sight flight tests, um onboard recording and
[3084.6] Raphael (OpenHD): It worked. Maybe you can hit play. Yeah in two seconds. Um, one thing I really like to
[3091.88] Raphael (OpenHD): Throw in is also
[3093.64] Raphael (OpenHD): A lot of this work was done by pete
[3096.52] Raphael (OpenHD): And he's really a professional in that case. So we do not just
[3101.64] Raphael (OpenHD): Plug any camera in that and you may have noticed that the cameras are smaller than the ones I showed
[3108.84] Raphael (OpenHD): and uh
[3110.84] Raphael (OpenHD): We were asked to talk about the cameras
[3112.76] Raphael (OpenHD): But right now we want to keep it a little bit of a secret until a little bit later
[3119.32] Raphael (OpenHD): I mean basically
[3120.84] Raphael (OpenHD): we show videos
[3122.68] Raphael (OpenHD): and uh
[3124.92] Raphael (OpenHD): When we release it you will be quite
[3127.16] Raphael (OpenHD): Quite surprised
[3129.08] Raphael (OpenHD): Basically, the cameras are a lot smaller than what we have on the pie and even on the red star boards
[3135.0] Raphael (OpenHD): And they fit into about any quad you can buy
[3138.2] Raphael (OpenHD): So that was one of the important points. Yeah, so let's go for the video
[3143.96] Curry: Obviously the cameras don't have massive stupid ribbon cables anymore. Which get in the way. Yeah, no
[3148.2] Raphael (OpenHD): No
[3149.16] Raphael (OpenHD): Do have the normal FPV standard coax stuff
[3154.52] Raphael (OpenHD): So basically this also shows that our vitamin range is a lot better
[3159.8] Raphael (OpenHD): Oh, yeah, it's just a
[3161.96] Raphael (OpenHD): Few seconds, but you basically can see everything
[3165.8] Max (OpenHD): It's a bit choppy in the stream, but yeah
[3169.24] Raphael (OpenHD): It's fluent in
[3171.24] Raphael (OpenHD): In the real video
[3172.76] Raphael (OpenHD): But basically the colors are great. The sharpness is a lot better than what we ever had
[3178.2] Raphael (OpenHD): And you can even do things like just looking in the sun and everything will still be the same
[3185.08] UNKNOWN: Yeah
[3186.04] Curry: Nice
[3187.0] Raphael (OpenHD): I was also asked to play another video
[3189.88] Raphael (OpenHD): Yeah, the sunlight test
[3192.52] Raphael (OpenHD): That's a low light test. Oh, wow. We are basically
[3196.52] Raphael (OpenHD): Yeah, you can't see a lot
[3198.84] Raphael (OpenHD): And you can still fly
[3201.08] Max (OpenHD): Yeah, that was after sunset
[3205.32] Max (OpenHD): Yeah
[3206.2] Rafael: Yeah systems like dgi would be uh having trouble in that light. It would just be squares. I think
[3212.36] Curry: Yeah, you were having a fun time with your o3 weren't you steven when it sort of comes between darkness and lightness
[3220.68] Rafael: Yeah, if you're in a beautiful sunny day that o3 system looked great and the sister vista before it would as well
[3226.36] Rafael: But when you get to dusk or around sunset, it was just terrible
[3232.04] Rafael: It would be all bright all
[3234.6] Rafael: Like mud
[3236.2] Raphael (OpenHD): Yeah, yeah. So basically we try to get the best out of the hardware we have and we create it
[3243.56] Raphael (OpenHD): and
[3244.68] Raphael (OpenHD): It all comes
[3246.28] Raphael (OpenHD): To this project that we have. I mean basically it's a really nice board. I've seen all revisions and
[3254.44] Raphael (OpenHD): Noticed all problems we had in the past
[3257.4] Raphael (OpenHD): And it was a struggle, but in the end we made a very capable board
[3261.56] Raphael (OpenHD): One thing I really shouldn't mention is
[3265.8] Raphael (OpenHD): It's still not dgi
[3268.36] Raphael (OpenHD): I mean we use we still use wi-fi it's
[3272.44] Raphael (OpenHD): Optimized a lot, but we can't do stuff like
[3277.32] Raphael (OpenHD): Getting the link
[3279.32] Raphael (OpenHD): That perfect that dgi does it they just have a lot more money a lot better hardware
[3285.56] Raphael (OpenHD): But with what we have and what we can do on the public market
[3289.24] Raphael (OpenHD): It's better than
[3292.2] Raphael (OpenHD): Anything you saw
[3294.2] Raphael (OpenHD): And I think that is a huge point
[3296.68] Rafael: So the osd you mentioned maflin can I guess you've got some kind of maflin driven osd
[3301.88] Rafael: If i'm running say a beta flight in the quad, would I be able to use msp display port for osd?
[3307.64] Rafael: Is that an option?
[3308.68] Raphael (OpenHD): Uh, you can use beta flight maflin telemetry it works, but we do not officially support msp
[3317.16] Rafael: Okay, because things like the menus and post flight statistics those are all done using display port still
[3323.8] Raphael (OpenHD): Yeah
[3324.6] Raphael (OpenHD): The problem is open hd is really based on maflin and not even not only the telemetry stuff
[3330.92] Raphael (OpenHD): But all the telemetry we generate generate ourselves like how is the cpu performing performing? How is the temperature?
[3339.4] Raphael (OpenHD): Um, what settings do we want to change and stuff? It's all maflin
[3344.76] Raphael (OpenHD): So open hd just uses maflin and nothing else as communication in
[3350.84] Rafael: Telemetry stuff you wrap msp display port into maflin can extract it and render it
[3357.4] Raphael (OpenHD): We didn't
[3359.56] Raphael (OpenHD): There may be a way to do it, but right now we
[3365.32] Raphael (OpenHD): Let's say
[3368.25] Raphael (OpenHD): We have one thing at a time. Yeah, that's the thing we do a lot
[3372.81] Raphael (OpenHD): And a lot on the same time, but there's just
[3376.73] Raphael (OpenHD): A lot that just can't be done
[3379.53] Rafael: Sure
[3380.57] Rafael: Speaking of features rather than talking about the negatives we we had some questions
[3385.45] Rafael: About the new evo features. So tell us what what you can do what what features you have just released or about to release
[3392.73] Raphael (OpenHD): I mean one of the cool features about evo
[3396.33] Raphael (OpenHD): Is my screen still shared? I don't know
[3399.45] Raphael (OpenHD): um
[3400.57] Thomas (OpenHD): Yeah, until you until you share your screen. I would like to to to mention another thing
[3405.45] Thomas (OpenHD): So that the thing was mentioned that dji thing. I think was mentioned
[3410.97] Thomas (OpenHD): uh
[3412.09] Thomas (OpenHD): I wanted to add something on that because
[3415.05] Thomas (OpenHD): well Raphael said we are not dji and and and that
[3419.53] Thomas (OpenHD): That's truly what we are not so we are
[3422.57] Thomas (OpenHD): Right to be not dji. So dji they they do great magic
[3427.29] Thomas (OpenHD): I mean their link is rock solid and it's nice
[3430.89] Thomas (OpenHD): All right, but you are locked into that system once you buy that system
[3436.09] Thomas (OpenHD): You're you're selling your soul and you are getting locked into the system and you can do exactly what they want you to do
[3443.13] Thomas (OpenHD): and nothing more
[3444.97] Thomas (OpenHD): With open hd. We we tried to get as close as possible to what each i magic can do
[3452.81] Thomas (OpenHD): But leave all the possibilities for you open
[3456.81] Thomas (OpenHD): It's like you decide you can you can you can start with open hd with a high zero a crappy camera
[3464.25] Thomas (OpenHD): and a low power wi-fi state
[3466.97] Thomas (OpenHD): You invest like 40 dollars and you're in and you can also decide to
[3472.73] Thomas (OpenHD): get a
[3474.89] Thomas (OpenHD): Rock 5
[3476.49] Thomas (OpenHD): a great camera a thermal camera on top
[3480.49] Thomas (OpenHD): A multi-spectral camera on top and a one watt high power rf link
[3486.73] Thomas (OpenHD): And that is what dji doesn't allow you or they charge you a fortune. I mean
[3493.37] Thomas (OpenHD): Take a look at what the cheapest
[3496.17] Thomas (OpenHD): drone from dji
[3498.33] Thomas (OpenHD): is cost wise
[3501.21] Thomas (OpenHD): Um that that features a thermal camera, I mean it starts at like
[3505.69] Thomas (OpenHD): 20 grand and you can do that with open hd for like one grand
[3512.88] Thomas (OpenHD): And get even better performance out of it
[3516.0] Thomas (OpenHD): And that is what what makes that you you remember from from the start of our talk
[3521.92] Thomas (OpenHD): You remember that swiss army knife?
[3527.92] Thomas (OpenHD): Solution that we are trying to deliver
[3530.4] Thomas (OpenHD): And that is possible only with the way we do it open
[3535.28] Thomas (OpenHD): Open source and that that's I think what open hd stands for and points it out
[3542.72] Raphael (OpenHD): Yeah, I think like thomas just said one of the quite amazing features of open hd is a dual camera possibility
[3550.88] Raphael (OpenHD): You can have a normal camera and a secondary in a picture in picture mode and you can use something like that a simple
[3559.52] Raphael (OpenHD): Uh thermal camera
[3561.52] Raphael (OpenHD): This was about 300 350
[3564.8] Raphael (OpenHD): It isn't cheap. But for a thermal camera thermal camera, it's really cheap
[3569.28] Raphael (OpenHD): And that is something you can do
[3572.8] Rafael: Sorry, I thought you uh, you had an image. I sorry. I thought that was what you're talking about. No worries. No worries
[3579.12] Raphael (OpenHD): That's because I was asked to show a little bit about open hd 2.5 that we are about to release
[3585.92] Raphael (OpenHD): You can show it now if you want
[3588.08] Raphael (OpenHD): So basically one of the cool new features is that we can
[3592.56] Raphael (OpenHD): scan the channels and you can see if one channel is very polluted
[3597.92] Raphael (OpenHD): and
[3598.88] Raphael (OpenHD): you can also
[3600.72] Raphael (OpenHD): Uh scan for your end unit
[3602.72] Raphael (OpenHD): so
[3603.76] Raphael (OpenHD): Earlier, you needed to be on the same channel to get anything and reboot
[3608.56] Raphael (OpenHD): Or later in open hd. Evo. It was possible to
[3612.8] Raphael (OpenHD): Connect to a channel if you know the frequency nowadays, you can just scan
[3618.64] Raphael (OpenHD): It's pretty easy and also shows you what frequency is best
[3623.68] Raphael (OpenHD): We also did something that we never did in the past and that is nowadays. We don't use the standard
[3632.48] Raphael (OpenHD): first and second and wi-fi channels we did
[3636.72] Raphael (OpenHD): Nowadays, we try to use upper band and therefore we are in the same area like dji
[3643.36] Raphael (OpenHD): So we use the high 5.8 frequencies. Those are usually
[3648.4] Raphael (OpenHD): cleaner
[3649.76] Raphael (OpenHD): And you can officially send with higher power
[3653.6] Raphael (OpenHD): so you aren't that
[3657.28] Raphael (OpenHD): Bad let's say it like that because uh blasting one watt of power on a channel that only allows 25 milliwatt
[3665.6] Raphael (OpenHD): Isn't really something to promote. So basically a good night for now
[3669.76] Raphael (OpenHD): Yeah, we have the high channels now. You can do that
[3672.96] Raphael (OpenHD): Not everywhere people still need to check what is allowed in their country
[3677.52] Raphael (OpenHD): But basically our standard channels are in the dji area
[3683.6] Raphael (OpenHD): Let's see, we also yeah, I just look what pictures I have on my computer right now
[3690.24] Raphael (OpenHD): prepared
[3691.76] Raphael (OpenHD): what we also do is
[3694.72] Raphael (OpenHD): You may notice the magic spurt antenna carry showed in one of his videos
[3699.92] Raphael (OpenHD): We do actually have the ability to test our antennas to see what frequencies are best
[3706.08] Raphael (OpenHD): And yes, this will show that
[3709.92] Raphael (OpenHD): The high 5.8 frequencies aren't really the best for this antennas
[3714.88] Raphael (OpenHD): That shouldn't really stop us because we really want people to
[3719.52] Raphael (OpenHD): start using normal
[3721.52] Raphael (OpenHD): fpv antennas
[3723.2] Raphael (OpenHD): So basically the idea is with the new custom hardware
[3727.44] Raphael (OpenHD): people share just by
[3729.44] Raphael (OpenHD): DJI antenna or hd0 antenna or walk snail and it should just work. So they are normally tuned for that frequencies
[3738.08] Raphael (OpenHD): Um, ah, yeah, this picture is one of the fun things
[3741.92] Raphael (OpenHD): um
[3742.48] Raphael (OpenHD): I asked in our community to send me a few
[3745.44] Raphael (OpenHD): Funny pictures of open hd setups and one thing open hd is great. It's just letting
[3752.48] Raphael (OpenHD): possibilities open for everyone. So
[3755.44] Raphael (OpenHD): this is a little
[3756.96] Raphael (OpenHD): crawling setup built by one of our users and he actually
[3762.48] Raphael (OpenHD): Puts it to a farm somewhere and lets people drive his crawler on that and adjust using open hd
[3769.92] Raphael (OpenHD): And this setup is also not using els or something but open hd rc
[3776.4] Raphael (OpenHD): which we
[3777.68] Raphael (OpenHD): have but
[3779.12] Raphael (OpenHD): it's just
[3780.48] Raphael (OpenHD): I mean we have all in one link you can use rc
[3784.24] Raphael (OpenHD): But wi-fi is notoriously bad for small packages like rc control and we actually
[3791.12] Raphael (OpenHD): Currently recommend people to openly use els
[3795.2] Raphael (OpenHD): It's a perfect system. It works. It works perfectly in combination with open hd
[3800.4] Raphael (OpenHD): And why should we design our own thing to be perfect?
[3806.16] Raphael (OpenHD): When there is something that is just handling it better
[3809.52] Rafael: Yeah, and for those large packets instead of trying to fit maflink on elrs
[3814.0] Rafael: The pilots can use maflink on on your link to get the telemetry back
[3818.96] Thomas (OpenHD): That's a pretty interesting aspect that uh that rafael just pointed out. I mean that that that looks funny does it
[3825.76] Thomas (OpenHD): But actually open hd is also used in in scientific
[3831.76] Thomas (OpenHD): research, for example a lot of uni we know of a lot of universities that use open hd and also
[3838.56] Thomas (OpenHD): In industry, so it's not only used in fpv that it was
[3843.9] Thomas (OpenHD): intentionally intentionally meant for in the first place but a lot of other let's say
[3852.62] Thomas (OpenHD): Industries have adopted it or or fields of use have adopted it
[3856.88] Thomas (OpenHD): And that that also makes us very very proud because that again shows us
[3862.16] Thomas (OpenHD): That we are doing the right thing that we are making making it open enough
[3866.96] Thomas (OpenHD): So that people can use it for their specific use case
[3871.44] Thomas (OpenHD): And again, I said it a lot of times today or this evening, it's with aminade
[3877.2] Thomas (OpenHD): It's it's it's amazing what people do with open hd. They are not putting it only on drones
[3882.56] Thomas (OpenHD): They are putting it on rovers. They are putting it on subs. They are putting it in their
[3887.44] Thomas (OpenHD): in their university laboratories
[3890.4] Thomas (OpenHD): It's it's amazing what people what people do with open hd
[3894.88] Raphael (OpenHD): Yes, for example, there's an indian university that uses open hd on rockets
[3901.04] Raphael (OpenHD): I mean they are pretty
[3903.36] Raphael (OpenHD): Early in the project, but we do have some videos and it's quite nice to see
[3910.54] Curry: So we're over time. So we're gonna have to wrap up in a second
[3913.26] Curry: But just for if someone's watched the video and they're now like super excited and saying I want to I want to get into this
[3919.26] Curry: Open hd malarkey
[3921.18] Curry: What what should I do?
[3923.02] Curry: That's the question. What should they do? Should they wait until the news chips comes out?
[3926.3] Curry: Or is there a page to look at on the open hd site that gives them some recommended?
[3931.34] Curry: hardware to to start out with right now and
[3934.78] Curry: They can move to other stuff later or or what what's best for them?
[3940.17] Raphael (OpenHD): Yeah, basically recommended is either visit our website. It's open hdf pv.org
[3947.21] Raphael (OpenHD): and
[3948.57] Raphael (OpenHD): I mean that's the best place to start
[3950.57] Raphael (OpenHD): There we have links for everything. We have the wiki link. We have our telegram channel with us quite
[3958.25] Raphael (OpenHD): Big and the best place to start
[3961.45] Raphael (OpenHD): but we also do have a discord channel we do have facebook and
[3967.93] Raphael (OpenHD): Generally the user can decide where he wants to join
[3972.73] Raphael (OpenHD): The idiot place is telegram to be honest. That is our main platform
[3977.77] Raphael (OpenHD): but we also answer
[3980.81] Raphael (OpenHD): every email we do also
[3983.77] Raphael (OpenHD): Read every post on discord and facebook
[3986.33] Raphael (OpenHD): It's just it can take a few days more on those platforms
[3990.41] Raphael (OpenHD): the basic ideas
[3992.25] Raphael (OpenHD): Go to telegram and we will be there
[3996.09] Curry: And so someone can turn up and basically get advice about where they should go what hardware they should get and how to start
[4003.53] Raphael (OpenHD): They can also just look in our wiki
[4005.93] Raphael (OpenHD): We do have a beginner's guide that shows the recommended starting hardware
[4011.13] Raphael (OpenHD): It doesn't show the uh, the ex-trendy because we actually reviewed it today
[4016.73] Raphael (OpenHD): So you were the first one hooray
[4021.13] Curry: Well, thanks a lot
[4023.69] Raphael (OpenHD): Yeah, we didn't actually want to tell it
[4027.45] Raphael (OpenHD): Before we have the meeting just to have everyone surprised
[4033.13] Rafael: Lovely stuff
[4035.53] Rafael: Thanks for a fantastic explanation a rundown of the history and everything
[4039.93] Rafael: Sorry, we had some issues there with thomas
[4041.61] Rafael: But I think we got some good audio explanation from you and uh, the some excellent board design and soldering from max there
[4049.29] Rafael: Look forward to those boards going through uh going through the testers hands and maybe by summertime next year
[4055.37] Rafael: We'll start seeing you out in the wild. That would be fantastic
[4060.01] Max (OpenHD): Let's hope so
[4062.09] Rafael: Well, thank you very much to a couple of the open hd team who've joined us this evening
[4067.93] Rafael: um
[4069.13] Rafael: As always thank you to everyone's favorite curry kitten
[4072.73] Rafael: Goodbye
[4074.25] Rafael: Myself steven the man with silly mustache
[4077.29] Rafael: And a huge thanks to the open hd team including rafael
[4081.53] Rafael: Thomas and max. Thank you very much for joining us really appreciated helping us
[4086.73] Rafael: Good luck with the project. Thank you
[4089.37] Rafael: Oh and thanks to all our patreons as well. Uh, we've realized how valuable you are to this project as well
[4095.85] Rafael: So thank you very much to everyone who supports us. We really appreciate you guys
[4100.57] Rafael: Thanks all the best. Catch you next week
[4102.97] Curry: telemetry loss