=== Let's Drone Out — Episode 444 ===
Title: LDO 444 - Bananas, Brussels and the BMFA
Recorded: 2024-02-29
Hosts: Stephen "Belrik" Howell, Andrew "Frank" Hyams, Jack "Brightontillifly" Nash, Tony "TheTonstar1" Marchant
Guest(s): (none recorded)
Total audience: 907
Platforms: YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpggGq8nqNU); SoundCloud (http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/feeds.soundcloud.com/stream/1763312832-letsdroneout-ldo-444-bananas-brussels-and-the-bmfa.mp3)
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[0.0] Jack: Hello! And you're listening to Let's Drone Out, a special thank you to our lovely patrons that helped donate so that we could pay the editor to remove the swear words and silly things we say. Massive thank you to...
[14.0] Jack: Carlos Campos.
[16.0] Jack: Art Faulkner.
[18.0] Stephen: Sam Dahmer.
[19.0] Stephen: On with the show.
[21.0] Frank: Let's Drone Out now.
[23.0] Stephen: Welcome to a flaming Let's Drone Out.
[54.45] Stephen: You're joined this week by our Lord and Master Frank.
[58.45] Stephen: Evening. Hello.
[60.45] Stephen: Jack's lovely other half, Tony.
[63.45] Stephen: Bonjour.
[65.45] Stephen: And...
[67.45] Stephen: You're right, darling.
[69.45] Stephen: Oh, saucy.
[70.45] Stephen: And the hairy chap himself, Jack.
[73.45] Stephen: Hello.
[74.45] Stephen: And myself, Stephen, your favourite Dr. Robotnik. Look alike.
[79.45] Stephen: Well, good evening, gents. How's everyone doing?
[82.45] Stephen: Still not enjoying the rain?
[84.45] Stephen: Yeah, I was just saying to Frank before we started that you kind of...
[88.45] Stephen: It's gotten to the point where it's warm enough to go outside and go, oh, I'm in the great outdoors and then realise that one is slowly sinking into the firmament.
[96.45] Tony: Yeah.
[97.45] Stephen: It doesn't make for great weather for flying.
[100.45] Tony: My parents said it's the wettest year in 200 and something years or something ridiculous.
[106.45] Frank: Oh, Freddie.
[107.45] Frank: Oh, my God.
[108.45] Frank: It is soggy.
[110.45] Tony: It hasn't been torrential in the southeast.
[114.45] Stephen: I gather other parts of the country have really suffered, but it has been steady to the point where everything is saturated and you walk on the ground and it oozes out water like a sponge.
[125.45] Frank: Yeah.
[126.45] Frank: It's almost like snowshoes or like diving flippers to walk around on the mud, not sinking.
[136.45] Frank: So unpleasant.
[139.45] Stephen: Yeah. And not the sort of thing you want to...
[141.45] Stephen: Well, you could fly, but landing and crashing would be tricky.
[148.45] Frank: I tried flying last weekend in the rain and...
[153.45] Frank: Oh, yeah.
[154.45] Frank: Yeah, just because I was that desperate.
[159.45] Stephen: For a minute, I thought you were going to give us a tale of hope and how you waterproofed something and it all worked out perfectly.
[165.45] Frank: I mean, it landed roughly where I intended it to land.
[169.45] Frank: Just maybe a bit sooner than I expected.
[172.45] Frank: That's all.
[173.45] Frank: Ten out of ten?
[174.45] Stephen: Yeah, yeah.
[175.45] Stephen: What should have accomplished?
[176.45] Frank: Yeah.
[177.45] Frank: But, yeah, I mean, this is on like some of my fixed wing line of sight stuff because everywhere that I fly around here that's local is all line of sight only.
[187.45] Frank: Tony, I saw you having a good chuckle there.
[189.45] Frank: What have you been up to?
[190.45] Tony: I'm just watching Jack Vicki's Nones.
[194.45] Tony: Sorry, itchy nose.
[197.45] Tony: Yeah.
[198.45] Tony: I'm just jesting.
[199.45] Stephen: So, Jack, other than having a very itchy nose, what have you been up to?
[206.45] Jack: Not much. I've been back at the old battery harvest thing.
[213.45] Jack: Again, maybe sooner or later.
[216.45] Stephen: It must be up to about 24s by now.
[220.45] Tony: He's going to playgrounds and finding kids smoky stuff, isn't he?
[226.45] Jack: No, not really a fan of kids playgrounds unlike you, Tony.
[231.45] Stephen: Do they have, like, vapes next to the chewits and bollipops and stuff now, then?
[236.45] Stephen: Is that how it goes?
[237.45] Stephen: Do you get, like, a strawberry vape when you're five years old?
[240.45] Stephen: I think so.
[241.45] Stephen: With a bit of licorice rope.
[242.45] Tony: That's where you're getting them from, though, isn't it?
[244.45] Tony: No.
[245.45] Stephen: Or you're just taking them out of the room.
[247.45] Stephen: I mean, there may not be that young, but it is definitely a craze of blowing out fruity-flavored air for teenagers.
[254.45] Stephen: This is out of an Apple remote.
[257.45] Tony: OK, so you're still seeing different stuff.
[261.45] Jack: Yeah, different things, really. Just, you know, different technology.
[266.45] Jack: How many cells?
[267.45] Jack: Well, I mean, I mean, the goal is to do the old 4S at least.
[273.45] Jack: I think 6S is going to be big.
[277.45] Jack: Here and there, you know, I've just been...
[282.45] Jack: It's trying to find one that's, you know, exactly the same size.
[287.45] Jack: Oh, right.
[288.45] Stephen: So you've got a matching set.
[290.45] Stephen: Yeah.
[291.45] Stephen: Can you now identify vapes by sight from some distance away, you know, the specific model?
[296.45] Stephen: No.
[297.45] Jack: No, I don't care that much.
[299.45] Jack: I just kind of...
[300.45] Jack: But, for instance, like, I've found a lot of these cooler ones,
[305.45] Jack: and sometimes they're skinnier.
[309.45] Tony: Are you going to make these fly?
[311.45] Tony: Are you turning them into an actual flying battery?
[315.45] Jack: Yeah, they're, like, wound up.
[319.45] Stephen: So they're not lipo cells then, they're lithium, are they?
[322.45] Jack: No, they're lipo.
[324.45] Jack: Oh, they are patch cells. They're just round.
[326.45] Jack: They're not, yeah, they're not like a flat pouch, they're, you know, wound.
[334.45] Jack: From my understanding, I don't know.
[336.45] Jack: Like, watch Big Clive if you're that interested.
[340.45] Jack: Do you reckon they'll take a charge?
[343.45] Jack: Yeah.
[345.45] Jack: But whether the discharge will be acceptable, I don't know.
[349.45] Jack: It will probably end up being doing it and then finding something that either Chris G or Frank,
[361.45] Jack: maybe put it in a plane and kind of just see what we can get out of it
[366.45] Jack: because I just don't think it's going to work for a quad.
[369.45] Stephen: Speaking of trying, making batteries, did anyone see Chris Ross's video?
[374.45] Stephen: I know Caroline did.
[376.45] Stephen: Chris Ross making a lipo pack, and he basically seemed to do everything that Caroline said
[383.45] Stephen: you shouldn't do when you make a lithium pack.
[387.45] Stephen: He'd, like, used loads of solder and soldered copper braid on top of the cells,
[392.45] Stephen: which you're not supposed to get them that hot.
[394.45] Stephen: And he used a really small tip, and he was just like, they're getting hotter.
[397.45] Stephen: They're getting hotter.
[398.45] Stephen: I think I'm almost melting the solder.
[400.45] Stephen: He's, like, he's, you know, this whole whole cell while he's doing it.
[403.45] Stephen: And then he wrapped it in, like, parcel tape, brown parcel tape.
[408.45] Stephen: I thought it was a joke to start with, but I think he was just making it as a bench pack, to be honest.
[414.45] Jack: That sounds worrying.
[416.45] Jack: Was he using solder-wick braid as well?
[419.45] Jack: Yeah, pretty much.
[421.45] Stephen: It was that type of thing.
[423.45] Stephen: It was copper, but with, like, an antioxidant coating,
[427.45] Stephen: so it was like a nickel-coated copper braid or something, or something like that.
[431.45] Jack: How strange.
[433.45] Jack: It's a bit weird.
[434.45] Stephen: Why the hell would you go that route, were there?
[438.45] Stephen: He's got so many people in his community, he must have, like, a wealth of knowledge.
[441.45] Stephen: So he clearly considered what he was doing, and he just made some very odd choices.
[446.45] Stephen: I know, you know.
[447.45] Stephen: He found it in brown tape, brown tape, of all things, like...
[451.45] Jack: Are you sure it wasn't cap-ton tape?
[453.45] Stephen: No, it wasn't orange.
[455.45] Stephen: It was, like, it was brown parcel tape.
[459.45] Jack: It looks yellow to me, cap-ton tape.
[462.45] Stephen: Yeah, it does look yellow to me.
[464.45] Stephen: He did put cap-ton over the ends of the cans, right, so that he didn't go short
[470.45] Stephen: from the positive to ground.
[472.45] Jack: Yeah.
[473.45] Jack: I mean, all cap-ton is, is heat-resistant, isn't that right, Frank?
[478.45] Jack: I think.
[479.45] Jack: I'm not 100% sure.
[480.45] Jack: I'm insulating ofs.
[481.45] Jack: Is it?
[482.45] Jack: Yeah, I suppose.
[483.45] Jack: Is it?
[484.45] Jack: Yeah, I don't know.
[486.45] Jack: It's not anti-static, I don't think.
[488.45] Jack: I'm not too sure.
[489.45] Jack: Never.
[490.45] Jack: What are the attributes of...
[493.45] Jack: Forgive my naive...
[494.45] Jack: I've never bothered to...
[496.45] Jack: I just kind of looked at it as, you know, like, that's what you put on batteries and stuff.
[502.45] Stephen: There's a whole industry built around this, because obviously, so many of those cells
[508.45] Stephen: go into, like, multi-cell packs.
[511.45] Stephen: There's this whole industry of little spacers and fish-paper insulators, like Caroline says,
[516.45] Stephen: and all this stuff, and he just kind of just jerry-rigged it, basically.
[521.45] Stephen: This dude here, Stephen, is saying he uses a big 100-watt weller.
[526.45] Stephen: So, yeah, like, heat it up nice and quick with a big fat tip, and then put 12-gauge wire,
[532.45] Stephen: and that would be kind of better.
[534.45] Stephen: But he had, like, he had a tiny little tip on this iron,
[538.45] Stephen: and I think it was, like, a TS80 with a wee little tip, so...
[543.45] Stephen: He got it to outperform the AU-line stuff,
[547.45] Stephen: so it was better than the packs he was buying that were made by professionals,
[551.45] Stephen: but still, may have harmed the longevity.
[554.45] Stephen: Sorry, what was him?
[556.45] Jack: Ah, high temperature, up to 260 C, or 500 Fahrenheit.
[565.45] Jack: I almost said what David says.
[569.45] Jack: Is chemical resistant.
[571.45] Jack: Resist solvent oils and acids.
[575.45] Jack: Dielectric strength.
[577.45] Jack: Excellent electrical insulator.
[579.45] Jack: So you're right there, Stephen.
[581.45] Jack: I'm flexible.
[583.45] Jack: And UL-recognized.
[585.45] Jack: Meat flammability standard.
[587.45] Jack: So it doesn't burn.
[590.45] Jack: OK, cool.
[592.45] Jack: Yeah, so I never bothered to, never bothered to, like, look it up,
[597.45] Jack: or just kind of, you know, I just kind of looked at it as I open batteries,
[602.45] Jack: it goes there on the battery, and that's my only.
[605.45] Jack: Yeah.
[607.45] Jack: And other than my influence from Sheldon,
[610.45] Jack: where Sheldon would literally use it for everything,
[613.45] Jack: I'm sure he attached something to his desk, yeah.
[617.45] Jack: You've got to use it, right?
[620.45] Jack: Yeah.
[622.45] Stephen: I know NASA loves this stuff.
[626.45] Stephen: Yeah, he's a smart guy.
[628.45] Stephen: He did produce a pack that outperformed the ones he bought.
[631.45] Stephen: He used some Molly Cell 21700s that are clearly a much higher quality cell
[637.45] Stephen: than the ones which you buy in ready-made packs.
[640.45] Stephen: So it did really well.
[643.45] Stephen: Like, it was four and a half amp hours.
[645.45] Jack: Tom, do you know that plane that we mocked you for
[651.45] Jack: the way you, like, twisted the wires together
[656.45] Jack: and tried to run everything off of the plane?
[659.45] Tony: Yes, come on, bring that up.
[661.45] Tony: Have you still got that?
[663.45] Tony: What was it?
[665.45] Jack: I think, well, I haven't found it.
[667.45] Jack: I thought it said IHD something.
[669.45] Tony: Yeah, I think it's under the stairs somewhere.
[674.76] Jack: Maybe we could, can we use that?
[677.76] Tony: That might work, yeah, that might work for the batteries,
[680.76] Tony: because it's quite small, a lot.
[683.76] Tony: Yeah, I reckon that would work, actually.
[685.76] Tony: Yeah, we can use that if you want.
[687.76] Tony: I haven't flown it for three years or something.
[693.3] Stephen: I imagine a plane would be easier because you can actually let off the gas
[697.3] Stephen: without crashing if the pack starts to give out.
[703.3] Tony: Yeah.
[704.3] Jack: I use a big 100-watt weller to solder director cells and use 12 AWG.
[712.54] Jack: Is it American wire gauge?
[714.54] Stephen: Yep.
[715.54] Jack: How do we do?
[716.54] Stephen: Which is surprisingly non-standard.
[720.54] Jack: Yeah.
[721.54] Jack: And we've got anything with gauge in it.
[725.54] Stephen: Ultimately, it comes down to a strand count, doesn't it?
[727.54] Stephen: And you've got a set-size strand of copper wire,
[730.54] Stephen: and then it's just a strand count above that.
[732.54] Stephen: So, I reckon the limited-
[734.54] Stephen: Oh, I think it's...
[736.54] Frank: It's in metric.
[738.54] Frank: It's millimeter squared, right?
[739.54] Stephen: Yeah, yeah.
[741.54] Frank: AWG, you've got your...
[746.54] Frank: I think an AWG-1 would be like a massive cable,
[751.54] Frank: and then you split it down by...
[753.54] Frank: And it's like a fraction of that big cable.
[756.54] Frank: So, the 36 is a tiny little bit of it.
[759.54] Frank: The 18 is double that.
[762.54] Frank: I think that's the way it works, right?
[764.54] Frank: Don't mean make me go to Google first, but...
[767.54] Frank: Yeah.
[769.54] Jack: What Frank said sounds right.
[773.54] Tony: Yeah, but he could say anything.
[774.54] Tony: I could.
[775.54] Tony: We'd just go, yeah, okay.
[776.54] Stephen: Yeah, just confidence.
[777.54] Stephen: Confidence meant a gesticulation.
[779.54] Stephen: That's how it works here.
[780.54] Stephen: Yeah.
[781.54] Stephen: I've learned from track GBT,
[782.54] Stephen: just say any nonsense confidently, it'll work.
[785.54] Stephen: Yeah.
[786.54] Stephen: It was devised in 1857.
[788.54] Stephen: Oh, God.
[789.54] Stephen: Diameter is a solid, round, non-ferrous,
[791.54] Stephen: electrical conductive wire.
[793.54] Tony: Was there Americans in America in 1857?
[797.54] Stephen: The dimensions of the wires are given in ASTM standard B258.
[803.54] Jack: What is ASTM standard for?
[806.54] Jack: Well, it's got to be asked something, I assume.
[809.54] Frank: I don't know.
[810.54] Frank: It is a standard ASTM...
[812.54] Frank: American Society for Testing and Materials.
[814.54] Frank: Oh, there we go.
[816.54] Frank: I've seen it.
[817.54] Frank: I've definitely come across it elsewhere for other things.
[820.54] Frank: Like finishes and metals and things.
[825.54] Frank: They come in like ASTM.
[827.54] Stephen: It's a logarithmically decreasing size, apparently.
[830.54] Frank: Ooh.
[831.54] Stephen: By definition, number 36 is 0.005 inches in diameter,
[836.54] Stephen: and number 0 is 0.46 inches in diameter,
[841.54] Stephen: and they logarithmically decrease.
[843.54] Stephen: There you are.
[844.54] Jack: Ooh.
[846.54] Jack: Darling friend Dave, David Powell,
[849.54] Jack: sent me the Red Bull-like Red Bull...
[854.54] Frank: Ooh.
[855.54] Frank: The F1 video with the Dutch drone gods.
[858.54] Jack: Yes, with the peanut-shaped quads that I think are...
[863.54] Jack: Oh, yeah.
[864.54] Stephen: Heavily wagging thoughts.
[866.54] Jack: Just a fly into my ass.
[868.54] Stephen: And the impressive thing about that entire video
[871.54] Stephen: is a bunch of guys who drive around in surprisingly phallic-shaped sports cars
[876.54] Stephen: were greeted with a phallic-shaped drone
[879.54] Stephen: and all just went, hmm, yeah, that looks about right, mate.
[881.54] Stephen: Yeah.
[889.54] Stephen: Tony, tell me.
[890.54] Stephen: They were wildly impressed.
[892.54] Stephen: Normally, there's a degree of skepticism,
[894.54] Stephen: but these guys were genuinely, honestly impressed by the engineering,
[897.54] Stephen: I think, that was quite heartening to see.
[902.54] Frank: Yeah.
[904.54] Frank: If someone had asked me,
[906.54] Frank: oh, is it possible with current technologies
[909.54] Frank: to build a drone that would keep up with an F1 car
[912.54] Frank: all the way around Silverstone,
[914.54] Frank: I'd have been like, I don't think that's reasonable.
[917.54] Frank: I'm surprised the battery's taking a patch on fire.
[920.54] Tony: Yeah, I've seen someone build one exactly like this.
[924.54] Tony: I think it's on YouTube with a million and a half people watched it.
[929.54] Tony: I think it was titled the fastest drone in the world or something,
[932.54] Tony: and the guy built one of these to get into the world records.
[935.54] Tony: It looks exactly the same, doesn't it?
[937.54] Stephen: Yeah.
[938.54] Stephen: But they were flying for a minute and a half,
[940.54] Stephen: and a lot of these, they do one pass in each direction,
[943.54] Stephen: and the battery is puffed and dead.
[946.54] Stephen: They're coming down, and the battery is starting to smoke.
[949.54] Stephen: We had a...
[950.54] Stephen: What's it?
[952.54] Jack: The pen-a-trayer.
[954.54] Stephen: My ghouly bird.
[955.54] Stephen: He was just killing batteries, right?
[958.54] Stephen: They were like one pass packs.
[961.54] Tony: So what's it?
[962.54] Tony: It's 6S?
[963.54] Tony: What were they flying?
[964.54] Tony: No.
[965.54] Tony: It's all a puffy,
[966.54] Stephen: so they didn't really tell about the cavy of the motors or anything.
[970.54] Stephen: It's just all Red Bull logos.
[972.54] Frank: Red Bull helped us make it faster, et cetera, et cetera.
[975.54] Frank: Yeah, Jack, if you skip through to the Red Bull one,
[978.54] Frank: I do like the...
[980.54] Frank: Yeah, so this is the prototype one.
[982.54] Stephen: ...manufactured one, yeah.
[983.54] Stephen: I think about 30 seconds from the end, they've got the real deal.
[987.54] Stephen: It's got a big old fat logo stuck on the side of it.
[991.54] Tony: Oh, so they were flying, keeping up with it in the wet.
[994.54] Tony: There we are.
[995.54] Tony: I see, yeah.
[996.54] Stephen: Well, they were keeping up with it on a dry lap with a prototype,
[999.54] Stephen: but the actual run they did with the real build happened to be in the wet.
[1003.54] Frank: No, that one's more girthy.
[1006.54] Stephen: They were keeping up around the corners, obviously,
[1009.54] Stephen: but they did like a straight-up half-mile drag run with it,
[1013.54] Stephen: and they crossed the line before the card.
[1015.54] Tony: Well, they filmed it with the...
[1018.54] Tony: What was the camera there?
[1020.54] Tony: They've got a 4K camera in there.
[1022.54] Stephen: They don't really say about the hardware,
[1024.54] Stephen: but they clearly got, like, a DGI,
[1027.54] Stephen: or maybe an action, DGI action, something like that.
[1031.54] Jack: Even, I mean, even the OSD is...
[1035.54] Jack: Yeah, it's running analog.
[1037.54] Jack: Like, does anyone want to break that down?
[1040.54] Stephen: So on the left, you can see they've got a bunch of debugs,
[1043.54] Stephen: and I think that's the motor RPMs they've got on the left there,
[1048.54] Stephen: and then they've got the GeForce satellite count,
[1052.54] Stephen: temperature of the ESC, amps,
[1055.54] Stephen: a conservative 158 amps they're pulling at this point.
[1059.54] Stephen: That's bull.
[1061.54] Stephen: It's not bull.
[1062.54] Stephen: Mate, if you're going over 200 km an hour,
[1064.54] Stephen: you're pulling stupid amps all the time to keep that thing in the air.
[1067.54] Stephen: Yeah.
[1068.54] Stephen: He's doing 350 km an hour, mate.
[1070.54] Stephen: 350 km an hour in this shot.
[1072.54] Stephen: Yeah, he's doing 200.
[1073.54] Jack: Think about...
[1074.54] Jack: Yeah.
[1075.54] Jack: We'll start to double it, then...
[1079.54] Jack: It's about 200 and something.
[1081.54] Tony: Plus six.
[1084.54] Tony: Add on four.
[1085.54] Tony: Take away the number you first thought of.
[1087.54] Tony: Five.
[1090.54] Jack: Pulling around 130 volts, so about 3,000 watts.
[1096.54] Jack: Yeah.
[1097.54] Jack: Sure.
[1098.54] Jack: So it's probably 8S or above.
[1101.54] Stephen: Oh, yeah, for 30...
[1102.54] Stephen: That would be like a flattened 8S, I guess, under the load.
[1107.54] Jack: Four minutes in the air.
[1109.54] Stephen: Max current, 245 amps is reading that.
[1114.54] Stephen: Four six.
[1116.54] Stephen: Min battery, 24 volts.
[1118.54] Stephen: 24 volts.
[1119.54] Stephen: What's the...
[1120.54] Stephen: I don't know what he landed at, but he pretty much killed it, I think.
[1123.54] Tony: Yeah, definitely not 6S.
[1128.18] Tony: Hmm.
[1130.18] Jack: I think we should get Frank to design this one that detaches from a heel.
[1136.18] Jack: And call it...
[1137.18] Jack: Oh, God.
[1138.18] Jack: The strap-on.
[1141.18] Frank: Oh, no.
[1142.18] Frank: You can play Bayonetta again, have we?
[1146.18] Frank: We're not going over my CV again.
[1148.18] Frank: But, yeah, I don't think the Red Bull video was really aimed at drone people.
[1160.49] Frank: I think it was aimed at everyone else, right?
[1163.49] Frank: Yeah.
[1164.49] Frank: Which is why it's been everywhere.
[1166.49] Frank: It's been posted all over Facebook, although it's very popular.
[1171.49] Frank: I feel like I've been sent it by a different person every hour for the past 48 hours.
[1176.49] Stephen: I showed it to some of my friends who I sent what I think are relatively mainstream drone videos every now and then.
[1182.49] Stephen: This was the first time they all basically went Ooh and Ah in sequence.
[1186.49] Stephen: They were mildly impressed.
[1190.49] Stephen: Yep.
[1191.49] Tony: It is.
[1192.49] Tony: Apparently done a video as well, which sounds like it would probably be funnier.
[1198.86] Stephen: Oh, they actually got the quad to have a look at in detail then.
[1201.86] Tony: I'm not sure.
[1202.86] Tony: Caroline just put something in the chat.
[1205.86] Stephen: I really wish that because I don't have the YouTube chat out.
[1208.86] Stephen: I really wish.
[1209.86] Tony: Yes, Richard Warwick.
[1210.86] Tony: I am looking at what I have been watching that C-17 plane built by Rami also.
[1216.86] Tony: It's wicked.
[1218.86] Tony: Very big.
[1220.86] Tony: I liked it when you sat on it and drove yourself down the runway.
[1225.86] Tony: I wonder if he could take off.
[1229.86] Frank: We'll send you over.
[1232.86] Frank: Looks like you're out there for the exiles races.
[1237.86] Tony: I think that's everything that happened again, isn't it?
[1239.86] Tony: Well, I don't know.
[1241.86] Tony: You can't get parts.
[1243.86] Tony: I don't know.
[1244.86] Tony: The Ukrainians are nicked them all.
[1246.86] Jack: I know.
[1247.86] Jack: You can see you've stopped there, don't they?
[1249.86] Jack: Stop making parts.
[1252.86] Frank: Well, they've stopped selling them to individual people.
[1256.86] Frank: I can't imagine that they won't at some point be enough demand or someone brave enough
[1261.86] Frank: to just order like 100 of them and sell them on to other people.
[1266.86] Jack: That's a big old order, isn't it?
[1268.86] Stephen: Yes, it looks like with the drug race with the Tesla S, they're not even trying.
[1273.86] Stephen: The battery is at 4.19 volts and they're just like...
[1278.86] Stephen: Another load.
[1281.86] Tony: Let's take it off from vertically or have they got some kind of...?
[1285.86] Stephen: No, they had to take off vertically and then go horizontal.
[1289.86] Stephen: So it wasn't even a racing start.
[1291.86] Stephen: It wasn't like on the blocks like they do with racing quads.
[1295.86] Tony: I was going to say, I'd want to take off on the blocks if I was at that angle, looking straight up.
[1300.86] Stephen: Oh, yeah.
[1301.86] Stephen: It's a challenge.
[1302.86] Stephen: So they have to punt it probably three metres into the air and then nose forward and really hit the gas.
[1309.86] Stephen: That'd be cool.
[1311.86] Stephen: We should build one.
[1313.86] Tony: We should actually build one.
[1315.86] Jack: Yeah, but how much is that going to cost?
[1316.86] Jack: Are you bankrolling it, Tom?
[1318.86] Jack: No.
[1321.86] Frank: Exactly.
[1322.86] Frank: Not putting his money where his mouth is.
[1323.86] Frank: No.
[1326.86] Frank: That's not going to be that much.
[1327.86] Jack: Come on, you can write it off.
[1328.86] Jack: I want window cleaning.
[1331.86] Tony: It's not a clean window, honey.
[1334.86] Jack: Clear the gutter and fill the ice cream pipe.
[1343.86] Stephen: Of course, the gutter contents would then be all over the window.
[1346.86] Jack: I'm pleasure, your wife.
[1351.86] Stephen: Not very long, though.
[1354.86] Stephen: Killer.
[1355.86] Stephen: Well, I remember, was it the Mr. Nice video where they had one of these speed drones and they mocked that it went up someone's butt or something.
[1364.86] Tony: Yeah, I've seen the video going around the internet with someone doing that.
[1374.69] Stephen: The weird thing is they're all still custom built.
[1376.69] Stephen: I think we're going to start seeing people actually designing airframes around this sort of like flying Wanger type design.
[1384.69] Stephen: Code on racing.
[1388.69] Stephen: Fucking.
[1390.69] Stephen: I don't know what you'd call it as a style.
[1394.69] Stephen: It's an X frame, but it's typically a pusher, right?
[1397.69] Stephen: So you've got the arms.
[1398.69] Stephen: The arms tend to be vertical instead of horizontal to reduce drag.
[1402.69] Stephen: There you go.
[1403.69] Stephen: It's pill shaped as well, like the fairing.
[1405.69] Stephen: So it's a pill pusher.
[1407.69] Stephen: A pill pusher.
[1408.69] Stephen: Yeah, that's probably an accurate description.
[1412.94] Stephen: That's what I'd call it.
[1413.94] Stephen: This one, when they cracked open, they cracked open the nose and you could see they actually had some carbon fiber like inside the plastic.
[1421.94] Stephen: Because previously I've seen people and they just jam everything inside the plastic.
[1425.94] Stephen: Any old how?
[1426.94] Stephen: But it looked like they had an airframe actually inside the plastic this time.
[1430.94] Tony: Have a look at the world's fastest drone.
[1436.21] Tony: See if you can find it.
[1437.21] Tony: I'm pretty sure that's what it's called.
[1440.21] Tony: It looks exactly the same as that.
[1442.21] Tony: And I don't know how long ago the guy done that.
[1446.21] Stephen: Is that the one that's in Austin Powers?
[1450.21] Stephen: Johnson.
[1452.21] Frank: Given the size of it, maybe it's more of a suppository.
[1455.21] Frank: I don't know.
[1456.21] Stephen: Here we are.
[1457.21] Stephen: This guy did 360 kilometers an hour, 224 miles an hour in old money.
[1462.21] Stephen: That's the Guinness World Record.
[1466.21] Stephen: You can go to betaflight.com in the blog.
[1469.21] Stephen: New World Record for fastest drone.
[1473.21] Tony: How long ago was that video?
[1475.21] Tony: It's exactly the same shape as mine.
[1478.21] Stephen: I mean, they're all the same shape.
[1479.21] Stephen: Anything that goes more than a certain amount of speed.
[1481.21] Stephen: They all end up basically looking the same because you don't get a choice.
[1485.21] Jack: Yeah, the drone is on aerodynamic.
[1487.21] Jack: No, no.
[1489.21] Tony: Prime Volvo will be challenging.
[1492.21] Tony: I think that's the title of this video.
[1496.21] Tony: Right there.
[1499.21] Tony: It gets a bit excited.
[1501.21] Tony: Come on, we used to have fun and call them stuff, right?
[1505.21] Jack: I don't know whether iTunes will appreciate that one.
[1514.21] Tony: I think it's brilliant.
[1516.21] Jack: They didn't like vaginal activity.
[1521.21] Jack: Here we are.
[1522.21] Stephen: It's the XLR V3 Magnum.
[1526.21] Jack: That's a connector, isn't it?
[1528.21] Jack: The XLR.
[1530.21] UNKNOWN: Yes, it is.
[1531.21] Stephen: It includes both the live signal and a negative of the live to cancel out noise over long runs.
[1539.21] Jack: Balanced.
[1549.96] Frank: That's a cool little rover in drone droids picture there.
[1554.96] Stephen: The XLR V3 looks a bit different.
[1560.96] Stephen: They didn't have HD camera in there to start with.
[1563.96] Stephen: They just went straight for the speed.
[1569.3] Stephen: And they did get some faster.
[1571.3] Stephen: They were going up to 380 kilometres an hour.
[1575.3] Stephen: They got the Guinness World Record with actually a slower speed than they've done on this thing.
[1582.3] Stephen: I guess you have to do like the...
[1584.3] Tony: I think you've got to go one way and then come back.
[1587.3] Stephen: Well, you've got to do a whole load of faffing around and organizing people to turn up.
[1591.3] Stephen: So you may not get your absolute fastest time done on the record day.
[1596.3] Stephen: You may, you know, go out a week later and get another 10 miles an hour on it, which appears to be what they've done.
[1602.3] Frank: Stubbsy is suggesting the Speedy McNobface.
[1611.98] Frank: So there we go.
[1613.98] Frank: We've got Stubbsy coming on the show next week.
[1616.98] Frank: So hopefully that's not his screen name.
[1620.98] Frank: So we've got him coming on, talking about the wing racing league and what their plans are for this year.
[1628.98] Frank: Because I believe they've got plans to be even bigger in better than they were last year.
[1634.98] Stephen: Interesting.
[1635.98] Frank: I am looking forward to hearing about that.
[1637.98] Frank: Yeah.
[1638.98] Frank: Well, Cobb Mover, he knows how to fly, doesn't he?
[1643.71] Frank: Yeah.
[1644.71] Frank: Yeah, Jack's just sharing the video from Cobb Mover at the moment.
[1649.71] Frank: And how he flies this line of sight, I have no idea.
[1654.71] Frank: I know.
[1655.71] Jack: He's incredible, isn't he?
[1656.71] Jack: I know, without losing orientation.
[1659.71] Frank: I can't even see anything.
[1663.18] Frank: I feel like it must just be a case of sort of giving it a suggestion and seeing if that was what you wanted it to do.
[1671.18] Frank: That's how I fly anyway.
[1675.18] Tony: Please go that way.
[1676.18] Tony: Mine's all prayers.
[1681.18] Jack: Oh, I'm working on a postcard system.
[1685.18] Jack: You kind of write to it, send it, and hope that it does what you want it to.
[1694.18] Jack: I mean, it doesn't even make it any easier on himself.
[1697.18] Jack: It's like all white.
[1699.18] Jack: It's pretty different.
[1700.18] Jack: Yeah, it is.
[1701.18] Jack: And he's like, what I need is an overcast card.
[1704.18] Jack: I'll stay, yeah.
[1706.18] Jack: The dirty marks on my monitor show up better than his drone.
[1712.18] Tony: Oh, I want one now.
[1716.18] Stephen: I'm guessing he actually flies with quite low rates, though, right?
[1719.18] Stephen: So he's kind of swooshing it back and forth.
[1721.18] Stephen: It's not my hair trigger turning.
[1724.18] Stephen: He's not going in like ripping out 722-degree turns in a really tight orbit.
[1731.18] Frank: Well, actually, he does do some pretty tight orbits quite impressively.
[1734.18] Frank: They do some tight flying.
[1737.18] Frank: But not like snap stuff all the time.
[1740.18] Stephen: Not all the time, but he flies.
[1743.18] Stephen: I'm not saying it's a bad pilot.
[1745.18] Stephen: I'm just saying that it's not as mental as it, I think, because he did one video
[1750.18] Stephen: where he put a camera on it, right?
[1751.18] Stephen: And you look at it, FPV in it.
[1753.18] Stephen: It looks a lot calmer FPV than it does line of sight.
[1757.18] Stephen: It looks terrifying.
[1758.18] Stephen: The FPV version is actually pretty kind of swooshy and calm.
[1763.18] Tony: I haven't seen it.
[1764.18] Tony: I've only seen him do line of sight stuff.
[1767.18] Stephen: Ooh, different world.
[1770.53] Tony: Flying banana.
[1771.53] Tony: Well, Jack and Frank did make a potato fly, so he probably could do a banana.
[1784.12] Tony: Might break in half, though.
[1785.12] Tony: Potato's quite slow.
[1788.12] Jack: You'd have to use it frozen.
[1792.12] Jack: There you are speaking from experience.
[1797.12] Jack: For a more firmer interaction.
[1800.12] Frank: Viber-reinforced banana.
[1802.12] Frank: That's what we need.
[1804.12] Stephen: Get the epoxy out.
[1808.12] Stephen: What are you doing, sir?
[1809.12] Stephen: Well, I was just reinforcing my banana.
[1811.12] Stephen: Obviously, sir.
[1814.12] Frank: Maybe do like a pie creach type thing.
[1818.12] Frank: Like you're saying a frozen banana, but maybe mash up some banana.
[1823.12] Frank: Use that as like an epoxy.
[1826.12] Jack: You can get, which I'm afraid of, what is it, a banana stuffer?
[1833.12] Jack: Oh my God, why am I typing this?
[1836.12] Tony: That's going to be on your history.
[1839.12] Jack: It can't be any worse than it already is.
[1842.12] Jack: I don't think that's a way to stick in Jack's history.
[1844.12] Tony: Yeah, probably right.
[1846.12] Jack: Yeah, I know.
[1847.12] Jack: Oh my God.
[1848.12] Jack: Yeah.
[1850.12] Jack: Present.
[1851.12] Jack: Chair screen.
[1853.12] Jack: Here we go.
[1854.12] Jack: We got that banana stuffer.
[1856.12] Jack: You know when the...
[1862.12] Jack: So it's like this got a pointy end, and it's pointless.
[1866.12] Stephen: This seems to be our use of technology.
[1869.12] Jack: Yeah, I can't believe this is a thing.
[1872.12] Jack: I mean, for only 32 pounds, you can get your own, very own, banana loca, banana stuffer.
[1881.12] Jack: What is this stuff into the banana?
[1884.12] Jack: Anything you want?
[1888.12] Jack: Nutella, peanut butter, jelly jam.
[1891.12] Jack: I'll put some sprouts in mine.
[1894.12] Jack: You got the end off your banana.
[1898.12] Jack: You call it the banana corer.
[1902.12] Stephen: You could just have a chocolate bar in one hand and a banana on the other hand and just take...
[1908.12] Stephen: Shut up, Steven.
[1909.12] Jack: Stop ruining the CIA directive of having fun.
[1916.12] Tony: Is that sucked out banana?
[1918.12] Tony: Yeah.
[1919.12] Jack: Well, yeah, it's now...
[1924.12] Frank: And so, please clip that.
[1926.12] Jack: And yeah, extrude the...
[1929.12] Stephen: It's the only way some people eat banana.
[1932.12] Jack: And then you load your hopper up.
[1934.12] Jack: I mean, that looks appetizing with Nutella.
[1938.12] Tony: Oh, God. Please explain what's going on.
[1940.12] Tony: This is an audio...
[1941.12] Jack: It's like one of those Play-Doh machines where you crank it down and the hair comes out.
[1947.12] Stephen: Designed by a person that never even made it to the short list of dragons then.
[1952.12] Stephen: And they've decided that they want to put Play-Doh inside of bananas for reasons that are largely unexplained.
[1958.12] Stephen: This is ridiculous.
[1959.12] Stephen: There you go.
[1960.12] Jack: No, you've done it.
[1961.12] Jack: And now you have a pregnant banana.
[1963.12] Stephen: But you've done it.
[1964.12] Stephen: Yeah.
[1965.12] Stephen: It's like a churros machine, except it's not used for the noble pursuit of filling donuts with something tasty.
[1971.12] Stephen: Instead, they've decided to fill a banana with something and made it a lot more difficult by the looks of it.
[1979.12] Frank: I mean, it's one thing, that thing existing and being on sale, but why does Jack know about it?
[1987.12] Stephen: I think he's just got an...
[1988.12] Stephen: He's just got an extant search for anything involving banana insertion.
[1992.12] Stephen: And that's just, you know, ripped up, basically.
[1996.12] Tony: I've never seen him with one banana over.
[2000.12] Stephen: Yeah, right. Well, exactly. You can never see the banana.
[2004.12] Frank: This episode was recorded in front of a live online audience, downloaded and edited to make sense when it played audio only, censored to please the iTunes people, hosted on the internet, forwarded through to your podcast provider, downloaded, playing on your device and is now playing in your ears.
[2021.37] Frank: All thanks to our Patreons.
[2023.37] Frank: Consider joining them and you'll also get other online benefits.
[2026.37] Frank: Find out more at patreon.com forward slash let's drone out.
[2031.37] Frank: So on Tuesday night, the BMFA held a question time session with some board members from the BMFA and some representatives from the CAA to answer questions from the membership of the BMFA.
[2050.37] Frank: There was discussion of the consultation that we were talking about a while back and they they had three thousand four hundred and seventy seven responses.
[2067.37] Frank: And yeah, so that's that's quite a few people.
[2072.37] Frank: To to put sort of that in perspective, they currently have three hundred and six thousand people registered with flyer flyer IDs.
[2083.37] Frank: So it's not it's not a huge number.
[2086.37] Frank: It's one percent of the people that they've got registered as drone flyers or modern aircraft flyers who responded to it.
[2096.37] Frank: So that's you know, that's one thing.
[2100.37] Frank: My question got asked, which I was very happy about.
[2103.37] Frank: I asked about whether they've got any updated statistics or information about the actual risks posed by drones and modern aircraft, small unmanned aerial vehicles.
[2117.37] Stephen: They have original data on the risks.
[2120.37] Frank: Well, the so that was what I asked is whether they've got anything newer than CAP 1627, which was the sort of publication about the risks associated with drones, which was in 2018 and basically said, no, we've got some guesses, but no one's really looked into it.
[2139.37] Frank: There isn't very much information to go on.
[2143.37] Frank: And what information there is suggests it's all pretty safe, which pretty much dates back to the.
[2150.37] Stephen: Determination of mass being linked to shrapnel damage created by French artillery regulations in the 1800s.
[2159.37] Stephen: If I'm correct, that's where we get the 250 gram figure from.
[2162.37] Stephen: Right. That that's the that the result of some piece of artillery shrapnel, which was put forward in the 1800s in the Napoleonic wars with France.
[2175.37] Frank: I think this was I think it was mentioned of something a bit more recent than that done in Australia, but the same principle, I'm sure.
[2183.37] Frank: But, yeah, so they said, no, that's the latest we've we've got, which I thought was interesting, given how much money is being spent on a risk that the official statistics isn't a problem.
[2196.37] Frank: But there we go. Yeah, so you can say what you want to do as many surveys as you want.
[2202.37] Stephen: But when you're up against the Daily Mail and the mirror and the sun, you don't stand a chance, do you?
[2208.37] Stephen: It's all demonizing and hysteria, unfortunately. Well, they don't tell the truth.
[2215.37] Stephen: They make a lot of money for their shareholders, and that's the important thing.
[2219.37] Frank: I found it quite interesting as well how much the CIA was saying, you know, remote ID is not it's not definite.
[2226.37] Frank: But in all their other answers, they were like, so when remote ID comes in, this will be a thing.
[2232.37] Frank: So it's very much when remote ID comes in, except for when someone specifically asked.
[2238.37] Frank: So is remote ID a definite? Oh, no, it's not a definite.
[2243.37] Stephen: I've seen a few things that come in.
[2246.37] Stephen: People are working on these inserts between a GPS and the quad.
[2250.37] Stephen: So if you have a quad that has GPS already, you can get a little daughter board that basically has two plugs like you would have on your GPS unit.
[2259.37] Stephen: And you plug instead of plugging in from the flight controller and GPS, you plug from the flight controller into this interim unit.
[2265.37] Stephen: And then that unit connects the GPS and your flight controller instead of speaking new blocks or NMEA, your flight controller now speaks MSP.
[2275.37] Stephen: So this little box that runs the beacon and reads the GPS values.
[2280.37] Stephen: So it sits between the flight controller and the GPS, handles all the beacon stuff, and you can program it.
[2288.37] Stephen: It's got some sort of USB socket and it has Wi-Fi potentially as well.
[2292.37] Stephen: And there's a couple of people that are coming up with the same sort of thing.
[2295.37] Stephen: It won't be terrible, except if you're running micros and whoops, in which case, there's really no space for a lot of hardware.
[2301.37] Frank: Yeah, I mean, I'm assuming that's the FAA one, right?
[2305.37] Frank: Which is almost Bluetooth based, I think the local one.
[2309.37] Stephen: FAA don't make them, but there's people that are making them for...
[2312.37] Stephen: No, no, but they're sort of their standard, I mean.
[2316.37] Stephen: Yeah, so that's, I think... Is the beaconing ADS-B stuff like standard everywhere or not?
[2322.37] Frank: Well, so ADS-B is a standard used by aviation all over the place.
[2329.37] Frank: But ICOW have specifically said, I think it was ICOW, someone has specifically said ADS-B must not be used from unmanned aircraft.
[2338.37] Frank: So it definitely won't be ADS-B.
[2343.37] Frank: ADS-B is also like about 1,000, because it's like 900 megabytes, about one gig.
[2352.37] Frank: So that's the sort of, you end up with some fairly long antennas for that.
[2358.37] Stephen: All right. So this, yeah, this was using some hacky Bluetooth Wi-Fi thing, I think, then in that case.
[2365.37] Stephen: There are some people looking at ADS-B, but I think that's, I may be mixing up my projects
[2370.37] Stephen: because there's some stuff on the ELS forum of people hacking around with ADS-B.
[2375.37] Frank: But yeah, Bluetooth and Wi-Fi.
[2378.37] Frank: ADS-B in as well would kind of make sense, because like if a lot of aircraft, particularly in the US,
[2383.37] Frank: are putting out ADS-B and you want to make sure you're not going to get flown into, then that would kind of make sense.
[2390.37] Stephen: Makes sense, yeah.
[2392.37] Frank: But yeah, so that was kind of interesting on the CAA side.
[2400.37] Stephen: Oh, tech news. I've got some tech news about technology that might be more...
[2407.37] Stephen: Yeah.
[2408.37] Stephen: I thought we're getting to the end, we could have an upbeat note.
[2412.37] Stephen: Please.
[2413.37] Stephen: As much as we all love the ability to be monitored and tracked and potentially beaten up and have our equipment stolen.
[2421.37] Stephen: But yes, the ELRS project has figured out a way to add gyros onto your receiver.
[2429.37] Stephen: And RC Video Reviews, who we had on the show talking, the guy who just has his hands on camera,
[2436.37] Stephen: and he does lots of Edge TX and plane stuff,
[2440.37] Stephen: he did a little demo where he got some boards with an MPU-6050 gyro,
[2445.37] Stephen: which is just cheap little one centimeter by two centimeter circuit boards with the gyro
[2451.37] Stephen: and whatever power filtering it needs.
[2454.37] Stephen: And he wired them directly into pins on an ELRS PWM receiver.
[2460.37] Stephen: So you forego like two channels and you have the...
[2465.37] Stephen: I think it was on an I2C connection, so SDA and the clock for the gyro.
[2472.37] Stephen: And then your receiver can now read the gyro values
[2477.37] Stephen: and it could do gyro stabilization in a few different modes.
[2480.37] Stephen: There's like a safe mode and a few others.
[2483.37] Stephen: I can't pretend to know about these.
[2484.37] Stephen: I don't really do planes, but it did the difficult plane stabilization.
[2489.37] Stephen: Yeah, go ahead by all means.
[2491.37] Stephen: So yeah, you could have a mode that switched between the stabilization modes
[2495.37] Stephen: and then you could set a pot to the gain for the stabilization.
[2499.37] Stephen: That's all I know.
[2501.37] Frank: So the modes from what I could see were sort of an angle mode where it self-leveling.
[2508.37] Frank: There is an acro, but with sort of a limit on it.
[2512.37] Frank: So you can't accidentally go inverted if you don't want to.
[2517.37] Frank: And there was just a sort of acros type one as well.
[2522.37] Frank: So that looks like a good combination of options.
[2526.37] Frank: Cool.
[2529.74] Frank: Maybe it could work for cars as well, which would be interesting.
[2532.74] Frank: Drift cars.
[2533.74] Frank: Yeah, definitely drifting.
[2535.74] Frank: Andy, where's Andy RC?
[2539.74] Tony: I've not seen him in chat.
[2540.74] Stephen: Caroline Tyler points out that the quality of some of these gyros is questionable.
[2545.74] Stephen: I think she means MPS 60-50 instead of 50-60.
[2550.74] Stephen: But yeah, out of three, two were faulty, which is...
[2554.74] Stephen: Good ratio, isn't it?
[2556.74] Stephen: It's dog shit, I think, what you'd call that.
[2559.74] Stephen: So you probably want to wait for people to actually sell them with them included.
[2564.74] Stephen: I'm sure it won't take that long.
[2566.74] Stephen: If you really, really want to, RC Video Reviews has got a video where he shows you how to solder one up.
[2572.74] Stephen: But from Caroline's experience there, you may struggle to find one that actually works,
[2577.74] Stephen: which can be challenging if you are not sure if the software side is working.
[2582.74] Stephen: So if you don't know whether you've wired it up properly
[2584.74] Stephen: and you still don't know where the unit works either, that would be a difficult troubleshooting.
[2589.74] Jack: Do you know what kills them?
[2592.74] Jack: The washing process in the ultrasonic cleaners for removing the flux.
[2598.74] Jack: That's what kills them.
[2600.74] Jack: So don't do that.
[2601.74] Stephen: They don't get the little labels stuck on properly.
[2604.74] Jack: No, that's buzzers.
[2607.74] Stephen: Oh.
[2608.74] Stephen: So they are sealed then, are they?
[2610.74] Stephen: But what kills them if they're sealed?
[2613.74] Frank: They're being moved around, I guess.
[2616.74] Jack: You can see.
[2617.74] Frank: Oh, okay.
[2618.74] Frank: It's like a little tuning fork in there, isn't it?
[2620.74] Frank: Yeah.
[2621.74] Jack: It's actually a mechanical or electromechanical.
[2626.74] Jack: PM me on the SP bracing server and...
[2630.74] Stephen: Mr. Clean Flight has offered to make an ELR-SRX.
[2634.74] Stephen: That sounds good.
[2639.08] Stephen: I suspect he's probably made a few already, so he should know.
[2644.08] Jack: Dominic save us from these peasants.
[2649.08] Stephen: Yeah.
[2650.08] Stephen: I mean, you can jump in and fill a gap in the market, Dom,
[2653.08] Stephen: before, you know, the kind of four-week lead time
[2656.08] Stephen: and they start rushing out of China in the thousands.
[2661.08] Stephen: It's always a difficult game to play.
[2665.08] Jack: You could probably float them off.
[2668.08] Jack: I think he's probably got a heat plate.
[2671.08] Jack: You could probably float them off some random boards.
[2675.08] Stephen: Float them off from Spain across the ocean
[2678.08] Stephen: and then they'll be sent back for immigration.
[2683.78] Stephen: We'll end up with these gyros in Rwanda.
[2689.24] Jack: Dom has got some stuff already.
[2692.24] UNKNOWN: Yeah.
[2693.24] Jack: Yeah.
[2694.24] Jack: In Dom we trust, my friend.
[2697.71] Jack: Angel get my stickers as well.
[2701.71] Stephen: Excellent.
[2702.71] Stephen: And tasty green gummies as well.
[2705.71] Stephen: I haven't beaten any of them.
[2712.71] Jack: Anyone else got any more news?
[2715.71] Jack: Don't know what channel once.
[2717.71] Jack: Going, going.
[2720.71] Jack: Right, back to the banana stuff.
[2727.71] Frank: I was going to suggest that we should do a Patreon special episode tonight,
[2733.71] Frank: and we should wait until Cole's back.
[2735.71] Tony: Yeah, wait for Cole because he can show us some talk about his experiences.
[2740.71] Stephen: So Cole will be back and showing us his fantastic long-ranging
[2744.71] Stephen: that he's done around Taiwan.
[2746.71] Frank: It does look very exciting.
[2749.71] Frank: And weather and like people and places
[2754.71] Frank: and just everything is conducive to flying.
[2758.71] Frank: Yeah.
[2759.71] Tony: Yeah, I think I need a holiday.
[2762.71] Stephen: Dom says he submitted a remote ID module for fabrication.
[2769.22] Stephen: I wonder how teeny tiny he can make that.
[2772.22] Stephen: Probably a lot smaller than the flight test one.
[2775.22] Stephen: Let's wait and see.
[2779.22] Frank: Yeah, the flight test one I think is correct me if I'm wrong.
[2782.22] Frank: I think it's a GPS module and a Bluetooth module.
[2785.22] Frank: Just kind of plugged together, right?
[2788.22] Stephen: On a PCB that is probably 50% larger than it needs to be.
[2794.22] Frank: Oh, at least, but it means he don't lose it.
[2804.22] Stephen: Oh yeah, we were talking about the bot grinder piece last week
[2807.22] Stephen: and mentioning trying to avoid the name of the afflicted party.
[2811.22] Stephen: But yeah, I think the internet has more or less decided that...
[2816.22] Stephen: Well, bot grinder's views didn't really go contested, did they?
[2822.22] Stephen: I think everyone just kind of went, yep, that's about the size of it.
[2831.22] Stephen: Dom says he's not going for super tiny.
[2833.22] Stephen: He's got GPS on there with an external GPS antenna,
[2836.22] Stephen: which is an interesting choice.
[2838.22] Stephen: That gives you a lot of flexibility.
[2840.22] Stephen: Get the external antenna and have the receiver on board.
[2844.22] Stephen: They're typically UFL connected.
[2847.22] Stephen: The trouble is that the GPS antennas are often pretty much the entire size of a GPS unit.
[2855.22] Stephen: So if you don't have the antenna on board, you still need that giant antenna.
[2863.22] Stephen: From a bunch of testing that I've seen,
[2866.22] Stephen: you can get them down to like 8x8mm or 12x12mm,
[2871.22] Stephen: but if you actually want to receive GPS satellites,
[2874.22] Stephen: which most people would prefer with their GPS antenna,
[2877.22] Stephen: you need the kind of 25mm x 25mm inch square big boys,
[2882.22] Stephen: and then you get a decent number of sats without waiting there all day.
[2888.22] Jack: Toby, are you going to do any flying soon?
[2895.38] Tony: When spring comes, I might, which is around the corner.
[2901.38] Tony: Tomorrow, isn't it?
[2904.38] Tony: I don't know.
[2905.38] Tony: The only reason I want to go flying now is if I go somewhere nice and then fly.
[2911.38] Jack: Ex-toss. Get the ex-toss out.
[2914.38] Tony: Yeah.
[2915.38] Jack: And fly it where?
[2916.38] Stephen: You wouldn't have to get your feet muddy.
[2918.38] Stephen: Just carry yourself somewhere.
[2919.38] Tony: I could spit on it.
[2926.38] Tony: Yeah, no.
[2927.38] Tony: I haven't got any plans to fly unless I go somewhere.
[2930.38] Tony: I'm going to go and see Bruce in the Isle of Wight.
[2932.38] Tony: Tomorrow, but I plan to go and see him in spring, summer.
[2935.38] Tony: So I might do a long range needles flight or something like that.
[2940.38] Tony: I've done a couple of beach flights when I've been over there.
[2943.38] Tony: And yeah, that's it.
[2945.38] Jack: Don't forget to heavily test that because I have thoroughly.
[2950.38] Jack: I know.
[2952.38] Tony: I think it needs everything doing on it.
[2956.38] Stephen: Are you saying you didn't fire it up in your room with your foot on it, Jack?
[2960.38] Tony: I'm disappointed.
[2962.38] Stephen: Well, nice.
[2964.38] Stephen: Didn't fire up Tony's ex-class or one foot on it while leaning back for caution and safety.
[2969.38] Tony: Oh, I've flown that one since.
[2971.38] Tony: OK.
[2972.38] Tony: I think he was talking about the long range called.
[2975.38] Jack: Yeah, the one that I...
[2978.38] Jack: I was just...
[2979.38] Jack: No, the Evo.
[2980.38] Jack: Sorry, Dom's sent me 3D views.
[2985.38] Jack: This is not...
[2987.38] Jack: Is this KiCad?
[2989.38] Jack: It can't be.
[2990.38] Stephen: This is way too neat for KiCad.
[2992.38] Stephen: Jack is currently being distracted by circuit diagrams that Dom was left with the same.
[2997.38] Stephen: 3D views.
[2999.38] Jack: Let me know if I can share any of them.
[3005.38] Jack: Is that the one with the chip that I reflowed on there?
[3009.38] Jack: That's your long range, isn't it?
[3011.38] Jack: Yeah.
[3012.38] Jack: It should work.
[3014.38] Stephen: I think so.
[3015.38] Stephen: It's reliability, like letting Jack reflow part of your equipment.
[3017.38] Tony: Fine.
[3018.38] Stephen: Well, you know.
[3020.38] Tony: It might go long and stay long.
[3023.38] Stephen: It's going to forever be long range now.
[3025.38] Stephen: Well.
[3026.38] Stephen: Where it lives.
[3028.38] Stephen: I hope you're on the horizon.
[3030.38] Jack: You're testimony.
[3034.66] Frank: I've bought a Pantel gimbal to do some FPV with at some point.
[3044.66] Frank: Can you show us?
[3045.66] Frank: Is it handy?
[3046.66] Frank: The motion sick one is just in the box.
[3049.66] Frank: It's just a couple of servos and some bits.
[3052.66] Frank: It's not very picturesque at the moment.
[3056.66] Frank: There's focus.
[3058.66] Frank: There's focus.
[3059.66] Frank: What was that?
[3060.66] Jack: Is that injection mold and everything?
[3062.66] Jack: No 3D print.
[3064.66] Frank: Yeah.
[3065.66] Frank: That's injection molded at all.
[3067.66] Frank: I won't.
[3068.66] Frank: You can both try and refocus on that or I'll be here all night.
[3072.66] Jack: Who's the real Frank and what have you done with them?
[3076.66] Frank: Well, you know me in 3D printed bits.
[3079.66] Frank: I'm allergic if it's not perfect.
[3083.66] Frank: I'm very fussy about my 3D prints.
[3086.66] Frank: So yeah, I will happily pay extra for a nice molded plastic.
[3096.66] Frank: I need to work out what goes on either side of it.
[3103.66] Frank: I mean, I've got a lot of wings and things,
[3107.66] Frank: but I don't feel like any of them are quite big enough for a Pantel head tracking type thing.
[3115.66] Frank: I've got like a split, like a brand kind of split that I could use with my analog stuff.
[3122.66] Frank: But I do feel like maybe I should think about getting some digital stuff.
[3127.66] Frank: But then I have to think about which route I go down.
[3132.66] Frank: And the problem is like, I don't do any FPV flying around here.
[3137.66] Frank: So it's going to be either with the wing racing guys or the scale FPV guys.
[3146.66] Frank: Or the scale FPV guys are all flying DJI.
[3149.66] Frank: Or the wing racing is going to be HD zero.
[3153.66] Frank: So there's like, I don't know.
[3156.66] Frank: I don't know.
[3157.66] Frank: I'll just keep waiting until someone manages to solve the problem for everyone.
[3164.66] Frank: I'll just carry on doing with analog.
[3167.66] Jack: Well, the HD zero, at least I work with your wing racing and it's fairly reasonably priced.
[3178.66] Stephen: It's the same price as walks now as an HD zero.
[3182.66] Stephen: Yeah.
[3183.66] Stephen: Pretty much.
[3184.66] Stephen: Yeah.
[3185.66] Stephen: It's a lot cheaper than O3.
[3187.66] Stephen: That's the outlier.
[3189.66] Stephen: But it's still like a hundred quid for a VTX and a camera, right?
[3194.66] Frank: I kind of have a bit more faith that the walks now stuff is still going to be available in like two years time.
[3204.66] Frank: The DJI stuff.
[3206.66] Frank: I mean, that's just like if it's like they're just going to change it every year, I feel like.
[3214.66] Frank: Exactly.
[3215.66] Frank: And the HD zero stuff, I kind of feel like they've got the racing market.
[3222.66] Frank: And outside of that, they haven't got much.
[3225.66] Frank: And even within that, I feel like, I mean, they've had those issues with the firmware on the HD zero goggles.
[3233.66] Frank: And I just, it doesn't feel like a very, I don't know.
[3239.66] Frank: It doesn't feel like a healthy ecosystem to me to be spending hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of pounds in.
[3248.66] Frank: I don't know.
[3249.66] Frank: Maybe I'm just being overly pessimistic about it.
[3255.66] Frank: Let me know in the chat.
[3258.66] Tony: I think I agree with you.
[3260.66] Stephen: Yeah.
[3263.01] Stephen: You are being pragmatic.
[3266.01] Tony: I'm going to buy the iPhone.
[3269.01] Stephen: Yeah, I think that's the key.
[3270.01] Stephen: Pragmatic.
[3271.01] Stephen: If you are pragmatic and you want your kit to last five years, then digital VTXs are a bad place to be right now.
[3280.01] Stephen: They haven't settled down.
[3281.01] Stephen: It's like, well, you remember when you were buying analog, like back in the day and stuff was out for a couple of years and then people were like, oh, no, now this band isn't compatible with that.
[3291.01] Stephen: And it took a while for it to bed down.
[3293.01] Stephen: And for things like the configuration of analog VTXs to be standardized.
[3298.01] Stephen: You can't even record through that.
[3301.01] Jack: You can't even record on the, you know, Tramp or a little bit more audio.
[3309.01] Stephen: Yeah, people have at least hacked around that.
[3313.01] Stephen: And there's a kind of 40 channel, more or less standard set of frequencies and bands you get, right?
[3321.01] Stephen: Whereas digital is just whatever.
[3325.01] Frank: I've also seen some of the latest stuff with the open IPC things, which do look, it looks like faff and drama, but the results look pretty nice.
[3338.01] Frank: But I would be slightly more tempted to just sort of have that as its own little mini hobby of trying to get that kind of stuff going.
[3345.01] Stephen: I'm hearing that the latency is 70 milliseconds and over.
[3353.01] Stephen: But I don't really know what that means.
[3356.01] Stephen: It means you need to be like 10 meters off the ground flying in a wing or you're flying a quad and you know the area so well, you're just flying by muscle memory.
[3366.01] Frank: I feel like I have to try it.
[3369.01] Jack: I want to see Tony get back into racing.
[3373.01] Jack: I want to see the old car.
[3376.01] Tony: I'll do that as if they did classes as in geriatric senior class.
[3384.01] Stephen: Are you saying you want to teach a bunch of kids and then put yourself in a genius position?
[3390.01] Tony: Like you say senior class.
[3392.01] Stephen: Oh, right.
[3395.26] Jack: Tony won't post the criminal background check.
[3399.26] Jack: I don't know if he did do that with Afterall.
[3402.26] Tony: Cleaning the whistle, mate.
[3404.26] Jack: I know.
[3416.26] Stephen: Yeah, 70 milliseconds.
[3418.26] Stephen: I'm saying depends how fast you need to fly.
[3420.26] Stephen: I think it's doable.
[3421.26] Stephen: Like for a car, it could definitely work.
[3423.26] Stephen: And for a plane, it'll work.
[3424.26] Stephen: And for long range, it'll work.
[3427.26] Stephen: And again, this is a project that is not English at its core.
[3431.26] Stephen: Like it's predominantly Russian speakers.
[3435.26] Stephen: And there's a prevailing cultural attitude that goes with that, which isn't friendly.
[3444.26] Stephen: If you haven't read the book on embedded programming, then go away.
[3449.26] Stephen: It's kind of the attitude.
[3451.26] Stephen: Okay.
[3453.26] Stephen: Fair enough.
[3455.26] Stephen: We shall see.
[3459.14] Stephen: Well, I think what we're really waiting for is like Foxy has jumped in with HD zero, haven't they?
[3463.14] Stephen: So there's a few people making that.
[3465.14] Stephen: There's just Cadex doing walk snail.
[3468.14] Stephen: Obviously, DJI isn't letting this one out the gate.
[3471.14] Stephen: They're keeping it for themselves.
[3473.14] Stephen: If, say, open HD or open IBC can get a foothold and start getting all the usual culprits to make their VTXs, that would change things.
[3485.14] Stephen: But we're just waiting for that point when it starts going exponential and people buy into it until that happens.
[3492.14] Stephen: Who can say?
[3493.14] Frank: The biggest thing for me would be if walk snail had a mode that was compatible with the VTX timing systems, I would spend the money immediately.
[3503.14] Frank: I would just buy it.
[3506.14] Frank: But it doesn't seem like that's happening.
[3509.14] Stephen: Did you ever try that racing mode and see what the deal was?
[3512.14] Stephen: It wasn't really well explained.
[3515.14] Frank: I've seen a few.
[3517.14] Frank: It seems to capture most of the requirements for VTX timing, but not the critical thing of being a constant power, I think, somehow.
[3528.14] Frank: I don't really know.
[3530.14] Frank: Well, all I know is it doesn't solve the problem.
[3535.14] Frank: There we go.
[3536.14] Jack: And how long before Ofcom come for us?
[3540.14] Stephen: How long before Ofcom come for Jack?
[3542.14] Stephen: I think that's the...
[3543.14] Jack: Yeah.
[3549.14] Jack: Anyway, thank you.
[3550.14] Jack: You've been listening to Let's Drone Out.
[3555.14] Jack: You have been joined by our lovely Patreons who are scrolling around down by the screen.
[3565.14] Jack: Yeah, bottom of the screen.
[3566.14] Jack: Who have been nowhere without you guys, within our hearts.
[3571.14] Jack: And today's hosts were Andrew slash Frank.
[3577.14] Jack: Bye.
[3579.14] Jack: Dr. Robotnik.
[3583.14] Jack: Catch you later.
[3585.14] Jack: My lovable wife.
[3587.14] Tony: Bye.
[3589.14] Tony: That was my day.
[3590.14] Jack: And I've been bright until I fly.
[3592.14] Jack: Thank you.
[3593.14] Jack: Good night.
[3595.14] Jack: Bye.
[3597.14] Stephen: Telemetry lost.
[3600.14] UNKNOWN: Thank you.