=== Let's Drone Out — Episode 469 ===
Title: LDO 469 - In The End, It's All About Wood
Recorded: 2024-08-22
Hosts: Stephen "Belrik" Howell, Wayne "CurryKitten" Andrews, Jack "Brightontillifly" Nash, Andrew "Frank" Hyams
Guest(s): (none recorded)
Total audience: 997
Platforms: YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAcTpWM87uk); SoundCloud (http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/feeds.soundcloud.com/stream/1902375720-letsdroneout-ldo-469-in-the-end-its-all-about-wood.mp3)
=====================================

[0.0] Jack: Hello, and you're listening to Let's Drone Out, a special thank you to our lovely patrons
[6.28] Jack: that help donate so that we can pay the editor to remove the swear words and silly things
[11.36] Jack: we say.
[13.0] Jack: Massive thank you to Carlos Campos, Art Faulkner, Sam Dahmer.
[19.68] Frank: On with the show.
[21.0] Stephen: Hello, and welcome to Let's Drone Out, episode 469 for Thursday.
[58.1] Stephen: Thursday, the 22nd of August, you are joined by everyone's favourite, Curry Kitten.
[64.82] Stephen: Hello.
[65.82] Stephen: And our stand-in Lord and Master, Jack, right until I fly.
[70.18] Stephen: Hello, how's it going?
[72.42] Stephen: Jack is standing in for our traditional Lord and Master as he has been stranded in a realm
[77.82] Stephen: without IP connectivity.
[79.62] Curry: I've slightly distressed the fact that Jack looks like some sort of puppet eyes, he's
[85.62] Curry: like blacked out in a black background.
[87.7] Curry: Stephen was off to one side, but he's come back in the middle and that's making my slight
[91.22] Curry: OCD skills.
[92.22] Stephen: That's off to one side, if this helps create conversational formats.
[94.58] Stephen: No, I think...
[96.14] Stephen: It's such a crap day, there's hardly any light.
[99.14] Stephen: You can reach out through the side of the screen and just...
[102.74] Curry: Do you think it's the end of summer?
[105.74] Curry: I hope not.
[107.54] Curry: I was just telling Stephen, I've ended up with a lot of stuff coming all at once, which
[112.98] Curry: has given me 11 videos in a row.
[115.86] Jack: 11?
[117.02] Curry: I'm looking at my whiteboard and I've got four things that are ready to fly, but to
[121.1] Curry: do that, I need A, not rain, and also I need my field.
[126.74] Curry: One of the farms I fly in is being used for some things, so I can't fly over at the moment.
[131.54] Curry: And as three of the four things need some distance, I'm a bit screwed there, so I can't
[136.54] Curry: do that much.
[137.54] Stephen: It's probably waterlogged by now.
[139.54] Stephen: We're going to go from rain to blistering hot heatwave that's so uncomfortable you
[143.58] Stephen: don't want to be outside.
[147.14] Curry: That's true.
[148.14] Curry: Last time I was there, it was like the hottest day of the year.
[149.58] Curry: Even the cows couldn't be bothered to come trample on my stuff.
[151.7] Curry: They were all hiding under a tree trying to keep cool.
[154.5] Stephen: And you've got to stand in the middle of a field like getting fantastic goggles tan
[158.82] Stephen: on your faces.
[160.82] Curry: Yes.
[161.82] Curry: Everybody says it is a fantastic goggle tan.
[164.82] Stephen: Maybe not a full gazebo, but some kind of lightweight umbrella that could provide a
[168.94] Stephen: bit of shade so you don't end up with the traditional ski mask tan lines.
[174.82] Curry: When would be bad?
[176.82] Curry: I've never really gone with, like I used to take a chair with me, that was as high-tech
[181.7] Curry: as it went.
[182.7] Curry: These days, I have a tarpaulin and I sit on that if I need to sit down.
[187.82] Curry: Yes, that is as good as it gets.
[190.46] Stephen: You've got quite a muddy flying experience though.
[193.26] Stephen: Yes.
[194.26] Stephen: Just this week, I wandered onto the Express LRS Discord and I noticed that after years
[201.3] Stephen: of people jokingly asking, oh, what about Maflink?
[205.06] Stephen: Why don't you add to your high speed racing link, Maflink that people use for unsupervised
[215.54] Stephen: flights and these giant autonomous drones because that's what you want with a racing
[219.02] Stephen: 5-inch.
[220.02] Stephen: Yes, it's going to come out the next race.
[223.1] Stephen: Maflink support is inbound for 3.5, it looks like.
[226.1] Stephen: We don't know when 3.5 is, when it's ready, as usual.
[231.06] Stephen: That means this is going to go from something that's long range with B2P and INF to something
[238.7] Stephen: that's fully ready for autopilot, which is an interesting can of worms to be open, don't
[244.54] Stephen: you think?
[246.94] Curry: Well, 2Pilot is, I feel, quite hateful and there's a lot of spreadsheet manipulation
[251.18] Curry: it seems when you're trying to look for these weird parameters, but it does put a nice picture
[255.42] Curry: of your model on a map and track it around, which are flying in.
[260.86] Curry: Previously, people have been in the realm of data radios, as they're called, and sometimes
[266.3] Curry: they work on a 4-3-3 link and you can get a Wi-Fi link and they're generally not as
[271.74] Curry: good as the range you've got for your radio.
[274.82] Curry: It's quite interesting about Express LRS carrying all this Maflink telemetry and pushing it
[281.54] Curry: back to the mission planner and allowing you just to, I don't think any of us guys do it,
[288.42] Curry: but I'm sure many people do.
[290.02] Curry: They do their mission plan and they're like, actually, no, I want to do a circle here and
[293.26] Curry: change the mission plan halfway through and that sort of thing.
[295.62] Curry: It's quite exciting, but I still find autopilot hateful generally.
[299.9] Stephen: Well, also, they may have had less range than your control link radio, but I think the main
[305.58] Stephen: brand were these SiK radios and here in the UK, they're stocked by only a handful of places
[310.82] Stephen: and they cost pretty much more than any other link you're going to find, so it was expensive
[317.14] Stephen: and less of range.
[318.14] Stephen: It looks like with Maflink support and Express LRS, you can use anything.
[324.18] Stephen: If you want to, you can use a regular transmitter on the ground and a regular receiver in the
[329.54] Stephen: air, but if you really want to, you can get things like the cheap EMAX transmitter and
[335.38] Stephen: you can use it as a receiver in your quad so that your quad, instead of being stuck
[340.18] Stephen: with a 200-milliwatt telemetry link, now has a watt of telemetry power.
[347.1] Stephen: You've got a watt in each direction between the quad and the ground station.
[352.26] Stephen: Combined with a bunch of long-range LoRa, you've got now crazy distances on a piece
[357.94] Stephen: of kit that's probably 10 to 20 pounds each end, depending on where you buy it.
[364.5] Stephen: It could draw a lot more people into autonomous flying.
[368.82] Curry: It's crazy how much this has gone up.
[370.58] Curry: Also, what I notice in Express LRS, because you don't look at them for a couple of months
[376.26] Curry: and you think, well, they've pretty much done it all, nothing else is coming.
[378.9] Curry: Then I found out about the LR-1121 chip that is what they call the third-generation
[386.46] Curry: transceiver from Semtech.
[388.66] Curry: The interesting thing about this, have you heard of Gemini crossband?
[395.02] Curry: On a single chip, it's possible to do it.
[396.98] Curry: I'm reading this, by the way, on my other screen.
[398.58] Curry: I'm not just ignoring you guys, 150 to 960 megahertz and 2.4 gigahertz.
[404.1] Curry: You've got a single chip that can do two completely different bands.
[408.98] Curry: What you can do is tuck two of these chips in there, and you've got something that talks
[413.18] Stephen: both bands at once, and your Gemini then becomes 1,000 hertz close up.
[419.22] Stephen: Then it goes down the toilet because it can't penetrate the concrete wall.
[424.86] Stephen: You've still got this ultra-robust 433 megahertz link.
[430.26] Curry: It's mental.
[431.5] Curry: Yeah.
[432.5] Curry: Well, I think at the moment, they're looking at the 902 formats, aren't they?
[438.7] Curry: But 433 is out there as well, isn't it?
[442.5] Stephen: Yes, Caroline, this is going to be like a configurator option right now.
[446.06] Stephen: You've got to jump through some poops, and I've got a GIF, give me just a second.
[451.7] Stephen: My memory is terrible, but there is an image that explains it all, so I will just simply
[456.5] Stephen: like full-screen this and share it.
[459.42] Stephen: Oh, word to me, Windows.
[462.94] Stephen: This pretty much says everything about it.
[465.26] Stephen: Right now, we've got Airport, and Airport converts one of your express LRS links entirely
[472.3] Stephen: into a UART that happens to work over the air, whereas MavLink runs alongside a control
[480.26] Stephen: link.
[481.26] Stephen: You've got MavLink as a control link, and then you've also got like MavLink as a kind
[488.82] Stephen: of airborne UART, and they're both running on the same thing rather than you needing
[495.82] Stephen: two receivers, one for Airport and one for regular crossfire real LRS.
[501.74] Stephen: With MavLink RC, you're kind of jamming everything in a two-way telemetry system alongside the
[508.54] Stephen: control link from what I can make out there.
[512.9] Stephen: The instructions for how to enable this are in this convenient little diagram.
[517.58] Stephen: Hopefully, this all is readable for people who are watching, but for the audio listeners,
[523.5] Stephen: what we've got here is a diagram that says you want to flash the backpack, and you will
[527.9] Stephen: need a transmitter with a backpack.
[530.46] Stephen: Most of them have it these days, not all of them do, but you need to flash it to the master
[534.42] Stephen: branch until the LRS configurator version 1.5 comes out, or in the LRS configurator
[541.46] Stephen: until backpack version 1.5 comes out, and you're going to use that backpack chip to
[546.1] Stephen: get the telemetry data onto your laptop.
[549.54] Stephen: Your laptop obviously doesn't have an Express LRS chipset in it, so you've got to connect
[553.9] Stephen: your laptop, and you can do it via Wi-Fi between the TX and your laptop, so you can connect
[562.14] Stephen: like a serial port over Wi-Fi, or you can plug a USB cable straight into the transmitter
[568.18] Stephen: and the other end into your laptop, and it will just appear like a USB connected serial
[572.14] Stephen: port.
[574.1] Stephen: On the flight controller side, you need a receiver flashed with Express LRS 3.5 or newer,
[581.54] Stephen: and you need the full UART, so you need both sides connected, and there's some instructions
[586.22] Stephen: there on how to set up the serial RX under autopilot.
[591.78] Stephen: And you're going to need to select the latest 3.XX maintenance branch because version 3.5
[597.3] Stephen: hasn't been released yet, and the changes are in the maintenance branch, and when 3.5
[601.42] Stephen: released, they'll get dropped into the main branch.
[604.06] Stephen: So you've got two sides there.
[605.86] Stephen: You've got the flight side.
[607.16] Stephen: You need a receiver flashed to the appropriate version, and the transmitter needs to have
[612.5] Stephen: version 3.5 or newer as well, and then you've got the backpack, so you need to make sure
[617.06] Stephen: you're updating not just the transmitter module, but your backpack as well, because your backpack's
[621.1] Stephen: the bit that's going to be taking all of that data and sending it out to your laptop.
[626.86] Curry: I guess what it is is that rather than thinking about Express LRS sending this, it's kind
[633.34] Curry: of like you're turning the Express LRS receiver and transmitter into a sort of virtual serial
[639.34] Curry: port, and you're sending MavLink, and some of the MavLink happens to be control data,
[643.3] Curry: so you send your control signals that way.
[647.22] Stephen: I do wonder what kind of rates you get.
[649.5] Stephen: I've seen people talk about 333 hertz as being a kind of a balanced rate that enables
[656.86] Stephen: them to have enough space with telemetry, so it sounds like you're going to be controlling
[660.46] Stephen: at 333, which is fantastic if you're a crossfire at use.
[663.42] Stephen: You're down at like 150 hertz, so it's going to be more – offer faster refresh than crossfire.
[671.54] Stephen: Sorry, Brandon Beans, it creates a serial connection over the air.
[674.62] Stephen: There you are.
[675.62] Stephen: It's running a serial protocol alongside the controlling, or it's putting the – however
[682.66] Stephen: you want to slice it, right?
[683.66] Stephen: You've got control data, your stick movements, and you've also got your both going through
[688.3] Stephen: there, it seems.
[691.22] Curry: Yeah.
[692.22] Curry: 333 seems quite reasonable.
[694.7] Curry: I fly 150 hertz, most things, without thinking, oh, this is slow, because I'm slow these
[700.46] Curry: days.
[701.94] Stephen: This will enable you to set waypoints, all the crafts up in the air, and direct it to
[706.1] Stephen: go and do a grid search over a field, or whatever you want it to do.
[711.58] Curry: The guy I see doing most with R2Pilot is probably RC Test Flight, who's doing his crazy going
[719.78] Curry: up and down Seattle rivers and stuff on his boats and planes and stuff, and he's always
[724.62] Curry: messing around mid-doing it, and he's getting these big, powerful telemetry bits to try
[734.18] Curry: and do this.
[735.18] Stephen: He uses the SICK radio, I think, SiK, which is where everyone's been, but they're not
[741.3] Stephen: plentiful.
[742.3] Stephen: As far as I can tell, they've been out for like 10 or 15 years, they haven't really
[746.58] Stephen: changed a lot.
[747.58] Stephen: There's not a lot of competition, so it kind of lights a fire under that space and pushes
[752.3] Stephen: some competition, which is generally good for hobbyists when you don't want to pay the
[756.14] Stephen: earth for your equipment.
[757.14] Curry: I do like the idea of doing it all in one thing, reduced to complexity with a single
[763.74] Curry: connection.
[764.74] Stephen: Well, that means if you've got a craft that you've wired up to be just a regular CRSF-enabled
[771.66] Stephen: flying quad, if you want to flip over to R2Pilot, then you can reflash the FC and you can reflash
[779.18] Stephen: the receiver, and you don't need to buy any extra hardware.
[782.7] Stephen: The thing that made me think of this was you especially, Kerry, with all the work you've
[786.66] Stephen: done with RC cars, and I was thinking, in the UK, you can't really put this on a plane
[791.26] Stephen: and go flying massive autonomous missions back to space, but with an RC car, it could
[795.98] Stephen: be hilarious to watch it like meander around and bump into stuff on an autonomous mission.
[802.1] Curry: Could it even get round the park without hitting stuff, that sort of thing?
[805.86] Stephen: Could it be like a man staggering to the kebab, Shabbat, or leaving stuff up, I think.
[810.06] Stephen: That's the level of competence you should expect from that, but it would be funny.
[814.18] Curry: It might be funny.
[818.1] Curry: It makes me want to mess with it, but I've been trying to set up a VTOL wing recently,
[824.18] Curry: which was supposed to be already set up, and that has R2Pilot.
[827.78] Curry: Going there makes me realize how much I don't know about R2Pilot and how slightly hateful
[833.42] Curry: it is.
[834.98] Curry: Where's the serial port?
[835.98] Curry: Oh, you want to look in the list of 10,000 parameters and look for serial two, and then
[841.94] Curry: change the protocol to that to 42 if you want to use MSP, OSD, and it just keeps going.
[850.78] Curry: It's kind of like...
[851.78] Stephen: So you always wanted to be a developer?
[852.78] Stephen: No, I just wanted to use R2Pilot.
[854.78] Stephen: Oh, it would be a bit like you'd have to be a developer.
[859.54] Curry: If you had to set up Beater Flight via CLI, but no one told you any of the instructions
[864.02] Curry: about it, it's kind of...
[865.9] Stephen: Or if you wanted to load up like, I'm not going to buy the latest quadcopter sim.
[870.54] Stephen: It's going to be great.
[871.54] Stephen: It's like a sim of flying a multi-rotor.
[873.66] Stephen: It's going to be exciting and adventurous thing, and you load it up, and it's just like
[877.22] Stephen: Excel.
[879.22] Stephen: What's this?
[880.22] Stephen: Oh, yeah, this is the R2Pilot simulator.
[881.94] Stephen: Yeah, you've got 10,000 rows, and you've got to set them up correctly, otherwise your motors
[886.94] Stephen: will burn out.
[890.06] Stephen: Have fun.
[891.06] Curry: Yeah.
[894.31] Curry: Well, I have to say, I'm still loving what Express LRS is doing.
[900.67] Curry: It kind of feels like it's not from the core of it, because I remember that we're not going
[904.07] Curry: to support these old protocols like SPUT, but of course, somebody else comes in and
[908.07] Curry: says, oh, we'll put SPUT in.
[909.07] Curry: Do you want to put it in?
[910.07] Curry: Yeah.
[911.07] Curry: Okay.
[912.07] Curry: Hey, we've done something with Mavli.
[913.07] Curry: Do you want to put it in?
[914.07] Curry: Oh, yes.
[915.07] Curry: What about 433?
[916.07] Curry: I mean, it doesn't go 1,000 hertz.
[917.07] Curry: This is what we designed it for, but I guess we'll let it in the project, so it's growing.
[920.07] Stephen: It's 100K on 2.4, but we'll put 433 in in case you absolutely, positively have to fly
[926.47] Stephen: from another country.
[927.63] Curry: To be fair, he didn't fly it back, so it's worth having these lower frequency protocols
[934.83] Stephen: just in case.
[935.83] Stephen: And as Brandon Beans points out, B to flight 4.6 is on the horizon, and they're putting
[941.07] Stephen: altitude holes.
[942.11] Stephen: So if you have one of those, if you want an ocean button, which a lot of people do want,
[947.51] Stephen: they want that, oh, it's all going horribly wrong, oh, s**t, s**t, s**t.
[951.03] Stephen: You don't want to fail safe.
[952.59] Stephen: The traditional thing was you're halfway through a maneuver and you have no idea what's going
[955.67] Stephen: on.
[956.67] Stephen: You fail safe, just in case you don't, so you don't lose the quad.
[960.71] Stephen: Well, there's going to be an altitude hole thing.
[962.99] Stephen: So if you're within radio length and you're not losing length, but you just got it some
[967.43] Stephen: place where you have freaked out and you just want to pause so you can stop sweating and
[972.63] Stephen: take a breath, B to flight 4.6 is going to have an altitude hole switch.
[977.71] Stephen: So you can just kind of plonk that on, and it will just keep you locked with the barrow
[983.15] Stephen: and accelerometer holding you at the same altitude.
[986.79] Stephen: And you can take a deep breath and then think, right, I'm the right way up.
[992.07] Stephen: Where am I?
[993.07] Stephen: Does that tree look familiar?
[994.51] Stephen: Does that wall look familiar?
[995.83] Stephen: Right, let's get back home.
[998.55] Curry: Well, that's different.
[1001.07] Curry: If you can just have an altitude hole, what normally happens is the wind blows your drone
[1008.19] Curry: away somewhere.
[1009.19] Curry: But as long as you're still in the goggles and it's like, oh my God, I don't know what's
[1012.75] Curry: happening, I've pressed the panic button, now I can continue, I think you're OK.
[1017.11] Curry: I think we've always used just self-level for that, haven't we?
[1022.87] Curry: It's like, put it in.
[1023.87] Curry: I forgot what the mode's called.
[1025.99] Curry: I'm having a...
[1026.99] Curry: Horizon?
[1028.63] Curry: No, the one before Horizon.
[1030.67] Curry: The even rubber's the one.
[1032.55] Curry: Angle!
[1033.55] Stephen: Angle!
[1034.55] Stephen: This is like flipping it into angle mode, but with an intelligent throttle hole that's
[1038.75] Stephen: just going to keep you that place off the ground.
[1041.51] Curry: Yeah, that's not bad.
[1043.11] Curry: It feels like it needs to be on the momentary, so you're just like, ah!
[1046.39] Jack: Get it?
[1047.39] Jack: Absolutely.
[1048.39] Jack: Are people still doing the one-way-woop thing, you know, where maybe 123 might be good for
[1053.71] Jack: that long-distance, one-way flying-woop?
[1059.15] Curry: I didn't hear about this.
[1060.15] Curry: Why is the one-way-woop?
[1061.15] Curry: Well, you've just explained it, but how do they get it back?
[1065.15] Curry: It's just like, how far can it go?
[1067.15] Jack: They don't.
[1068.15] Jack: Yeah, it's just...
[1069.15] Jack: Yeah, it just goes only one-way.
[1071.15] Jack: That's it, you know?
[1073.95] Jack: Free-fly.
[1074.95] Jack: For quads.
[1075.95] Jack: Yeah.
[1076.95] Jack: Disposable, old-woop, on its last legs, going to just push the record.
[1084.63] Jack: I don't know.
[1085.63] Jack: Well, if I didn't know, they either GPS do it, or GPS, but don't have, like, the normal
[1091.71] Jack: antennas.
[1092.71] Jack: I was thinking about maybe you could make, like, an even smaller antenna out of the ones
[1096.43] Jack: that you harvest out of GoPros, and then maybe you could just last known GPS and then find
[1102.99] Jack: it like that.
[1103.99] Jack: But you can't add one of your lovely beeberry things, it'd just be too heavy for it.
[1110.61] Jack: That'd be a shame.
[1112.85] Curry: I suppose if it wouldn't get that far, it's what, a couple of...
[1118.17] Curry: Because I remember I was trying to do this, like, how far can I go on a 1S back when we
[1123.17] Curry: had brushed?
[1124.17] Curry: How far can I go on a 1S brushed WOOP?
[1126.97] Curry: And I was going around in circles to find out what the range would be on this battery.
[1132.13] Curry: And it was just about to 2K, so I was trying to get, like, a 1K out in back flight, see?
[1138.89] Curry: They don't go that much further, but perhaps the brushed ones become a little bit more
[1144.05] Curry: efficient and you can make them a little bit lighter now and they can go further.
[1148.25] Stephen: You've still got tiny props, haven't you?
[1150.29] Stephen: I remember when the WOOPs came out, I first got into building by taking WOOPs and putting
[1155.93] Stephen: them in, like, open airframes, and I went up from the 40mm props to the little hub sand
[1163.01] Stephen: 55mm props, 55mm or 60mm bi-blades.
[1167.57] Stephen: And you get quite a noticeable improvement in flight time when you go up to larger bi-blades
[1172.65] Stephen: instead of, like, tri- or quad-blade 40mm props.
[1176.09] Stephen: That helps a bit.
[1177.09] Stephen: But yeah, the motors are limiting at that size.
[1179.29] Stephen: They put out a lot of heat and they're not terribly efficient.
[1182.89] Curry: And yeah, the battery trade-off, trying to put our bigger battery in, it's this little
[1188.41] Curry: curve.
[1189.41] Curry: It's like, it's better, it's better.
[1190.41] Curry: No, it's not.
[1191.41] Stephen: It's gone back down again.
[1192.41] Stephen: Yeah.
[1193.41] Stephen: Now you need 60% throttle to get off the ground.
[1196.05] Curry: Yeah.
[1198.01] Curry: Anybody that's only flying this week, we had some good days.
[1200.57] Stephen: Oh, it's just been drizzle, drizzle.
[1204.33] Stephen: I've been thinking about building another quad.
[1206.41] Stephen: I've had a bunch of 1204 motors sitting around, 1204 motors.
[1211.01] Stephen: I've got an AirBOPs AIO and some, a Walk Snell Nano VTX, and I've been meaning to make a
[1220.01] Stephen: little two and a half inch with that.
[1221.49] Stephen: I'm just looking around here and find a good canopy to put on it right now.
[1227.09] Jack: I haven't even, on my to-do list, I've got a balance and props for the old Tri-copter.
[1235.29] Jack: And I haven't even done that, followed by putting in, working on the iNav Tri-copter,
[1252.01] Jack: haven't even started on that.
[1256.25] Jack: I had a look and I found the old files work with normal sized servos.
[1268.04] Jack: So that's something.
[1271.24] Jack: So if you want the 3D printable files for that, I figured that out.
[1277.88] Jack: So I got like the high-tech servo, but that, I'm assuming it's digital.
[1286.52] Jack: How can you tell?
[1287.52] Jack: I suppose, really, I'd have to look up the model number.
[1291.6] Jack: But yeah, instead, you know, the beginning of the week, you know, like I was still taking
[1296.8] Jack: an Antibar X.
[1298.6] Jack: So yeah, so I haven't been able to venture far, shall we say.
[1304.28] Jack: And then I was kind of like hoping something would happen this weekend regarding Frank,
[1310.48] Jack: but I'm not too sure because he sounds like he's coming down with something.
[1314.96] Jack: And I've messaged Tom, so I don't know, hopefully I'll fly.
[1325.04] Jack: If someone's like, yep, we're going to go fly.
[1329.36] Jack: And I had like something to look forward to, then I'd probably get the old prop.
[1332.68] Jack: The prop balancer is out.
[1334.32] Jack: It's set up.
[1335.32] Jack: I have a bag of props.
[1336.8] Jack: I just don't know whether I can get the glue gun now and sandpaper and all that bullshit.
[1341.36] Jack: Don't know whether I got it in me.
[1343.96] Jack: Do you know what I mean?
[1344.96] Jack: Can you remember doing that?
[1345.96] Jack: Do you remember like the bits of tape and cutting the bits of tape and?
[1349.96] Curry: Yeah, I mean, it was always OK.
[1352.92] Curry: It was all right on planes because you only had to do one prop and it was only ever a
[1356.56] Curry: two-baited prop.
[1357.6] Curry: And it was a fairly quick thing.
[1358.92] Curry: It's just like that's a bit heavier, put a bit of tape on.
[1361.4] Curry: That looks OK.
[1362.4] Curry: And you might do a dynamic balance as well.
[1364.96] Curry: So you'd run the prop up, you'd look for vibrations and then you turn the prop within the hub
[1369.28] Curry: slightly and you'd look what's better.
[1371.52] Curry: And the whole thing is like 10, 15 minutes and your plane's ready to go.
[1375.6] Curry: But when you're talking about doing that like four times and I've never understood balancing
[1381.64] Curry: on a tri-blade.
[1383.28] Curry: So I don't think I've ever done it.
[1384.56] Curry: But mostly because there's quite a bit of product that I'm confused as to why you're
[1388.32] Curry: buying props that are not ready to fly because they always come out slightly wonky.
[1395.92] Stephen: Stephen, the responsibility of the person you're buying the props from, you should ask
[1402.72] Stephen: for better props.
[1403.72] Stephen: Am I missing?
[1404.72] Jack: All right.
[1405.72] Jack: For a start, it's bi-blades for efficiency and it's an old, like eight-inch prop.
[1415.0] Jack: Like the ESCs definitely won't take eight-inch tri-blades because they will just...
[1422.12] Jack: I mean, bi-blades, they're better quality.
[1425.68] Jack: I don't think anyone is making them because don't forget you've got to go into that size
[1431.96] Jack: and then you get into the plane territory where they're individually made of wood by
[1437.68] Jack: cavemen.
[1438.68] Jack: Yeah, that's a tri-blade.
[1439.68] Jack: Yeah, it's gonna...
[1440.68] Stephen: Yeah, there'll be a guy making them in a cave somewhere with a napped flint.
[1445.72] Jack: Yeah.
[1446.72] Jack: And plus they already own them.
[1448.6] Jack: They're just...
[1449.6] Jack: Yeah, you're right.
[1450.6] Jack: Old and...
[1451.6] Jack: And the motors are made by Sunny Sky, so they're not even balanced.
[1457.64] Jack: What colour's your bottom?
[1459.64] Jack: Black.
[1460.64] Jack: Is that good or bad?
[1463.64] Curry: I don't know what to say there.
[1466.8] Jack: Well, for a start, Evac's made the red bottoms, not Sunny Sky.
[1472.8] Curry: I just want to balance about Stephen's desire to make a two-and-a-half-inch quad.
[1477.44] Stephen: The company's clearly got me in a field to fly in than I have.
[1480.28] Stephen: I'm slightly jealous.
[1481.28] Curry: Well, I haven't at the moment.
[1482.28] Curry: This is the problem.
[1483.28] Curry: I need to take the field.
[1485.28] Jack: Is this the open HD?
[1487.28] Stephen: Is that a nice light frame?
[1490.28] Jack: No, this is from...
[1492.28] Curry: See what it is.
[1494.28] Curry: Turn this from...
[1495.28] Curry: Hang on.
[1496.32] Curry: This is a 10-inch quad frame.
[1498.52] Curry: It's from Sequre who...
[1500.52] Curry: Sequre with a Q.
[1503.6] Curry: Sequre with a Q, who are most famous for making soldering irons and now ESCs.
[1507.6] Curry: They have made this 10-inch quad.
[1510.6] Curry: And I thought, yeah, why not?
[1512.6] Curry: And it's got quite a lot of space in there.
[1515.6] Stephen: It's analog.
[1517.6] Stephen: They've been making the names themselves.
[1519.6] Stephen: They're now on the Betaflight approved partner list, Sequre.
[1522.6] Stephen: They've been really...
[1524.6] Stephen: They seem to be doing...
[1526.6] Curry: Yeah, different things.
[1528.6] Curry: These are the 10-inch props that come with it,
[1530.6] Curry: which I wouldn't like to break one,
[1532.68] Curry: expensive to buy.
[1533.68] Curry: German fan carbon fiber by the looks of it.
[1535.68] Curry: And, yeah, seven-inch thick.
[1538.68] Curry: Caroline wants to know what the motors are.
[1540.68] Stephen: Are those 31-15s like Caroline had there?
[1542.68] Stephen: Don't even look like it's got anything written on them.
[1544.68] Curry: They don't have anything written on them.
[1546.68] Curry: I'd have to...
[1547.68] Curry: I remember looking up...
[1549.68] Stephen: They look 30-size, like that sort of size.
[1552.68] Stephen: They'd have to be just been a 10-inch prop, right?
[1554.68] Stephen: You're not going to do it on a 28-motor.
[1556.68] Stephen: That's going to be 31-35.
[1559.68] Jack: That's amazing.
[1561.76] Stephen: Oh, a 28-40, maybe.
[1563.76] Stephen: I'm sure you're doing...
[1565.76] Stephen: Big talk, boys.
[1567.76] Stephen: 28-40s were popular a while ago,
[1571.76] Stephen: but, obviously, the taller you get, hotter they get.
[1574.76] Curry: They are...
[1578.49] Curry: 31-15s.
[1581.49] Curry: They're going at 900 kV.
[1583.49] Stephen: That's what Caroline was talking about earlier.
[1585.49] Stephen: She was doing a build with those.
[1587.49] Stephen: 900 kV...
[1589.49] Stephen: I was lazy. It might paint pre-built.
[1591.57] Stephen: Lucky, lucky, lucky go.
[1597.01] Curry: Well, I thought it might make a fun noise.
[1599.01] Curry: I like big things.
[1601.01] Stephen: It makes a fantastic noise.
[1603.01] Curry: That sort of noise.
[1607.01] Stephen: You should probably not bounce the props
[1609.01] Stephen: because then you'll get a reassuring kind of...
[1611.01] Curry: I don't know how to bounce these.
[1613.01] Curry: They're too big and stupid looking,
[1615.01] Curry: so I'm just going to fly with it.
[1617.01] Jack: Oh, there's Jack's props.
[1619.01] Jack: Oh, my God. I forgot how to drink.
[1621.09] Jack: I totally forgot how to use it.
[1625.09] Jack: And then just choked myself to death.
[1629.09] Stephen: You've got some giant yellow props.
[1631.09] Stephen: Oh, there's a mixture.
[1633.09] Curry: This looks very similar to when I was looking
[1635.09] Curry: for props to fly my tricopter.
[1637.09] Curry: I've got a bag full of old props
[1639.09] Curry: that you can just go like this with
[1641.09] Curry: and they're so bendy and flimsy.
[1643.09] Curry: I had a bunch of gem fan
[1645.09] Curry: 10-11 inch ones which are so flimsy.
[1648.09] Curry: It's unreal.
[1650.17] Jack: It's trying to find
[1652.17] Jack: like ones that are...
[1655.17] Jack: I seem to have more clockwise
[1658.17] Jack: than counterclockwise.
[1661.17] Jack: A lot more clockwise than counterclockwise.
[1664.17] Jack: Oh, HQ are doing some props
[1666.17] Stephen: than the 8-inch size.
[1668.17] Stephen: HQ do an 8x5.
[1670.17] Stephen: You can always change it
[1673.83] Curry: to use two of the props
[1675.83] Curry: that you've got most of
[1677.83] Curry: and one of the ones that you haven't.
[1679.91] Jack: Yes, I have all these clockwise
[1683.91] Jack: and only four counterclockwise.
[1687.91] Jack: I suggest you use two clockwise
[1689.91] Stephen: and a counterclockwise and a tricopter.
[1691.91] Stephen: Like you could literally just use
[1693.91] Stephen: more clockwise than counterclockwise
[1695.91] Stephen: because you can indeed.
[1697.91] Curry: Yeah.
[1699.91] Curry: And it pretty much doesn't matter
[1701.91] Curry: which way you put the props on.
[1703.91] Curry: As long as two are one way
[1705.91] Curry: and one's the other way.
[1707.99] Curry: Can it deal if you put
[1709.99] Stephen: all three on the same way
[1711.99] Stephen: and just like...
[1713.99] Curry: That would be a no.
[1715.99] Curry: That would be an interesting idea.
[1717.99] Curry: It's really hard ever.
[1719.99] Curry: It'd be like, right on one side.
[1721.99] Jack: You can't mess around with the tile.
[1723.99] Jack: Whatever the tile's
[1725.99] Jack: direction,
[1727.99] Stephen: you'll stop with it.
[1732.17] Stephen: HQ do an 8x5 in light grey
[1734.17] Stephen: that looks suspiciously like
[1736.17] Stephen: the modern props I've used
[1738.17] Stephen: for 4 inch and 5 inch bi-blades.
[1740.17] Stephen: Of course you want to reuse the ones
[1742.17] Stephen: you've got at the moment.
[1744.17] Stephen: They're like new polycarbonate ones.
[1746.17] Stephen: 8x5
[1748.17] Stephen: if you find yourself
[1750.17] Stephen: up a certain creek without a certain paddle.
[1752.17] Jack: I'm not great.
[1754.17] Jack: I mean, they're 8 inch slow fly
[1756.17] Jack: but
[1758.17] Jack: I've got a feeling
[1760.17] Jack: that people aren't
[1762.17] Jack: making these props anymore.
[1764.17] Jack: They're not going to be popular.
[1766.17] Jack: Not many people are going to be making them.
[1768.17] Stephen: Well, I'm telling you literally
[1770.17] Stephen: they do make them. HQ make
[1772.17] Stephen: an 8x5.
[1774.17] Stephen: It's available. It looks identical
[1776.17] Stephen: to their smaller props so it's going to be the same
[1778.17] Stephen: technology, the same material science.
[1780.17] Stephen: Should be okay.
[1782.17] Jack: It's moved on.
[1784.17] Stephen: Give her a whirl.
[1786.17] Stephen: If it fails the hover test
[1788.17] Stephen: catastrophically,
[1790.17] Stephen: you can just cut throttle before it goes too far.
[1792.17] Jack: It's no big deal.
[1794.17] Jack: It's always a
[1796.17] Jack: it's all for a laugh.
[1798.17] Stephen: Well, you've got to fly it sooner or later, right?
[1802.17] Stephen: Unless you want to just put it up there as a piece of history.
[1806.17] Jack: Well, I mean, you've still got
[1808.17] Jack: the hysterical quad
[1810.17] Jack: which we need.
[1812.17] Stephen: Hysterical quad. Yeah. Quad hysteria.
[1814.17] Stephen: All the way. I should fly the thing
[1816.17] Stephen: but it was challenging.
[1818.17] Jack: It was challenging.
[1820.17] Jack: It's fine. I mean, at some point
[1822.17] Jack: we will need it. I can send it to someone else
[1824.17] Jack: and they can try it.
[1826.17] Jack: Well, no. It's originally
[1828.17] Jack: it's to show you
[1830.17] Jack: and the main
[1832.17] Jack: recipient of it is coal.
[1834.17] Stephen: I'll give it
[1836.17] Stephen: to him when he appears.
[1838.17] Jack: Yeah.
[1840.17] Stephen: Yeah. It's a challenging
[1842.17] Stephen: thing. You kind of
[1844.17] Stephen: take it up there and
[1846.17] Stephen: it decides to weave around
[1848.17] Stephen: and you can kind of fly through obstacles
[1850.17] Stephen: but you can't fly that fast because
[1852.17] Stephen: it just doesn't respond well to quick stick
[1854.17] Stephen: movements. You've got to really slow down
[1856.17] Stephen: the inputs, which is
[1858.17] Stephen: a bit like
[1860.17] Stephen: trying to steer a wayward
[1862.17] Stephen: shopping trolley.
[1864.17] Jack: Well, it's a bit of a challenge for you.
[1866.17] Jack: I mean, tune it. Do you even get any more
[1868.17] Jack: performance out of it?
[1870.17] Stephen: I haven't got any good filters on it. It can't even
[1872.17] Stephen: do good filtering.
[1874.17] Stephen: My first go-to thing
[1876.17] Stephen: was I just rip out an MCU and I put
[1878.17] Stephen: an H7 in there
[1880.17] Stephen: and just have a piece of firmware
[1882.17] Stephen: and replace the ESCs and the motors
[1884.17] Stephen: and then just be like, well, it's the same
[1886.17] Curry: quad.
[1888.17] Curry: I feel the need to say stuff like back in my day
[1890.17] Curry: you didn't have no fancy filters. You had a
[1892.17] Curry: screwdriver and you turned up the gains
[1894.17] Curry: up and down. That's how you got
[1896.17] Curry: your tune.
[1898.17] Stephen: Theseus is quad. If it was left to me
[1900.17] Stephen: it'd be like, oh, it's the same quad.
[1902.17] Stephen: It's got a new flight controller, motors, ESCs
[1904.17] Stephen: and I changed the frame a bit but it's
[1906.17] Curry: the same quad.
[1908.17] Curry: I think you need to embrace the wonkiness of it
[1910.17] Curry: and just go with it.
[1912.17] Stephen: Yeah.
[1914.17] Stephen: If you want to really embrace the wonkiness, I've got an
[1916.17] Stephen: AR drone up in the loft. You want to
[1918.17] Stephen: try flying over Wi-Fi, boys.
[1920.17] Stephen: That might be one you haven't done.
[1922.17] Stephen: You think you'll control those
[1924.17] Stephen: terrible, their fast guy.
[1926.17] Curry: Those are the ones over Wi-Fi.
[1928.17] Curry: I can beat that. I've got
[1930.17] Curry: one of them, Dodgy, what
[1932.17] Curry: they call him? Who's that guy that did
[1934.17] Curry: kickstart a big
[1936.17] Jack: Dodgy? Oh, Vernon.
[1938.17] Curry: Vernon. I've got one of his
[1940.17] Curry: crappy drones.
[1942.17] Curry: Yeah, that is
[1944.17] Stephen: terrible. Did we ever find
[1946.17] Stephen: to flop that stuff through Argos or something
[1948.17] Stephen: because it just read like a
[1950.17] Stephen: list of obviously failed promises.
[1952.17] Curry: Yeah,
[1954.17] Curry: he managed to get the original
[1956.17] Curry: what do they call it? I forgot it now. I wanted
[1958.17] Curry: to say it's called something like the mini
[1960.17] Curry: no, he wasn't AI. It's like
[1962.17] Curry: a mini drone 2 or something.
[1964.17] Curry: Anyway,
[1966.17] Curry: it was very bad, in my opinion.
[1968.17] Curry: Someone put the
[1970.17] Curry: disclaimer on.
[1972.17] Stephen: Everybody's
[1974.17] Curry: very unhappy about
[1976.17] Curry: the
[1978.17] Curry: crowd funding. It wasn't
[1980.17] Curry: kickstart with something else. He's tried to do
[1982.17] Curry: to get the next one.
[1984.17] Curry: It's not a kickstart.
[1986.17] Curry: It was something else.
[1988.17] Curry: He's
[1991.64] Jack: expressed by any guest or host
[1993.64] Jack: or majority of the person.
[1995.64] Jack: Anyway,
[1997.64] Curry: he hasn't come up with a
[1999.64] Curry: delivered product as yet,
[2001.64] Curry: and it's like 4 million quid later
[2003.64] Curry: and many years.
[2005.64] Stephen: He's got a lovely house and a sports car.
[2007.64] Stephen: I don't know what he's got. My suggestion
[2009.64] Stephen: only, I do not believe these views.
[2011.64] Curry: Vernon very much
[2013.64] Curry: reminds me of an apprentice candidate
[2015.64] Curry: where he really believes in himself
[2017.64] Curry: but is essentially
[2019.64] Curry: not there.
[2021.64] Curry: You get it? He's like, yeah, I can do that.
[2023.64] Curry: I can do that. I can do that. You're not doing it.
[2025.64] Curry: Yeah, I am. But it's fading. No, it's good.
[2027.64] Curry: It's going to be great.
[2029.64] Stephen: Okay.
[2031.64] Stephen: Well, he's been quiet for about 5 years, so
[2033.64] Stephen: I guess that's all
[2035.64] Stephen: she wrote, right?
[2037.64] Curry: He's still working on it.
[2039.64] Curry: Anyway, I got one of those. Maybe I should do a single
[2041.64] Curry: distance with that, but I have the feeling it would
[2043.64] Curry: go down. I could still be able to bloody see it, let
[2045.64] Curry: alone try and find it by GPS or something.
[2047.64] Frank: I don't know.
[2049.64] Frank: This episode was recorded
[2051.64] Frank: in front of a live online audience,
[2053.64] Frank: downloaded and edited to make sense
[2055.64] Frank: when it played audio only, censored
[2057.64] Frank: to please the iTunes people, hosted on the
[2059.64] Frank: internet, forwarded through to your podcast provider,
[2061.64] Frank: downloaded, playing on your device
[2063.64] Frank: and is now playing in your ears.
[2065.64] Frank: All thanks to our Patreons.
[2067.64] Frank: Consider joining them and you'll also get
[2069.64] Frank: other online benefits. Find out
[2071.64] Frank: more at patreon.com
[2073.64] Frank: forward slash let's drone out.
[2075.64] Jack: Are you very interested
[2077.64] Jack: in the one way
[2079.64] Jack: notion of flying something
[2081.64] Jack: only one
[2083.64] Curry: not having to do?
[2085.64] Curry: I can't deal with losing stuff.
[2087.64] Curry: The only thing I lost was
[2089.64] Curry: one of those silly, cheapy things
[2091.64] Curry: which is just like, let's draw this thing
[2093.64] Curry: on a phone, and it goes
[2095.64] Curry: and flies itself, and he's going, wing!
[2097.64] Curry: That's the last bit of it.
[2099.64] Curry: So now I'd be like, I don't want to
[2101.64] Curry: even my old crappy stuff
[2103.64] Curry: as like, oh well, I could do something
[2105.64] Curry: with it or I could give it to somebody if they didn't
[2107.64] Curry: have one rather than just
[2109.64] Curry: fly it to nowhere.
[2111.64] Curry: Seems a concept.
[2113.64] Curry: I kind of like the idea of
[2115.64] Curry: flying one way to like, oh maybe
[2117.64] Curry: I could, for example,
[2119.64] Curry: can I fly this and land it in Jack's garden?
[2121.64] Curry: Nor that Jack has an
[2123.64] Curry: applicable garden, or
[2125.64] Curry: fly it through his window or something like that. That would
[2127.64] Curry: be an interesting one way thing, and then
[2129.64] Curry: he could fly it back or something like that, but
[2131.64] Curry: no. The idea of
[2133.64] Curry: losing something seems a bit
[2135.64] Curry: bad.
[2137.64] Jack: I'm friends with my neighbours
[2139.64] Jack: opposite. I've always been tempted to
[2141.64] Jack: like, fly
[2143.64] Jack: between mine
[2145.64] Jack: and theirs, but I can't then
[2147.64] Jack: release it, because then
[2149.64] Jack: people would probably figure out where I
[2151.64] Curry: lived. Hey, last week we talked about
[2153.64] Curry: the RunCam Open IPC
[2155.64] Curry: thing, didn't we? Briefly.
[2157.64] Curry: Stephen said it was a render.
[2159.64] Curry: It's not a render.
[2161.64] Curry: It's
[2163.64] Curry: alive. It exists.
[2165.64] Curry: I think it was a kid.
[2167.64] Curry: Currently connected to this
[2169.64] Curry: flight controller. There's your
[2171.64] Curry: big fan.
[2173.64] Curry: And there's your camera.
[2175.64] Curry: Is that an FBV unit?
[2177.64] Stephen: Or is that a
[2178.6] Stephen: two hundred and eight cables?
[2180.6] Stephen: Oh god. Oh jeez.
[2182.6] Stephen: It takes me back to the
[2184.6] Stephen: socket seven days. Look at that.
[2186.6] Stephen: The socket seven
[2188.6] Stephen: CPUs.
[2190.6] Jack: I think I had
[2192.6] Stephen: something that size in a PC
[2194.6] Stephen: once upon a time. Jeez, look at that.
[2196.6] Curry: Yeah, so I'm just testing
[2198.6] Curry: that out. It's not quite working yet.
[2200.6] Curry: Is it alive at least?
[2202.6] Curry: Yeah, it boots up
[2204.6] Curry: and I can SSH to it.
[2206.6] Curry: Correct.
[2208.6] Curry: But
[2210.6] Curry: it had to sort of vague
[2212.6] Curry: instructions from RunCam. It says things
[2214.6] Curry: like, oh yeah, just the
[2216.6] Curry: idea of this, if you
[2218.6] Curry: remember, you can have this
[2220.6] Curry: thing, which then goes into an Android
[2222.6] Curry: tablet, and you can get your stuff
[2224.6] Curry: that way. What's this thing? Is that
[2226.6] Curry: just a regular WiFi dongle?
[2228.6] Curry: This is a WiFi dongle. It's a specific
[2230.6] Curry: WiFi dongle that's supported by certain things
[2232.6] Curry: into
[2234.6] Stephen: the USB-C.
[2236.6] Curry: AC56?
[2238.6] Curry: AC1200.
[2240.6] Curry: Micro-drone. That's it. Thank you.
[2242.6] Curry: Richard Warring.
[2244.6] Jack: Thank me.
[2246.6] Jack: So, the problem is
[2248.6] Curry: with their instructions,
[2250.6] Curry: it's like, oh, you just have to
[2252.6] Curry: put the key that you've generated
[2254.6] Curry: on the
[2256.6] Curry: this
[2258.6] Curry: onto the ground station. You're like,
[2260.6] Curry: oh, well, we didn't generate a key.
[2262.6] Curry: Are you telling me to generate a key, or should I use the
[2264.6] Curry: keys there? Because it doesn't have a ground
[2266.6] Curry: station key. It has a drone key. So, put the drone key
[2268.6] Curry: on it.
[2270.6] Curry: It's a little bit vague there. So, I'm trying to,
[2272.6] Curry: rather than just go on it and
[2274.6] Curry: do stuff that I would have done
[2276.6] Curry: on the previous one.
[2278.6] Curry: Because not many people liked
[2280.6] Curry: an RM15 video about
[2282.6] Curry: me trying to explain to generals
[2284.6] Curry: of Linux and how to make things work.
[2286.6] Stephen: If you go looking for
[2288.6] Stephen: how to set up Open IPC,
[2290.6] Stephen: your video is the top of the list
[2292.6] Stephen: everywhere.
[2294.6] Curry: Yeah, well, there's not many people that try to do it
[2296.6] Curry: because it's stupid. It's going to sit there
[2298.6] Curry: for that long and try to explain it.
[2300.6] Curry: What an idiot.
[2302.6] Curry: But, yeah, it doesn't quite work
[2304.6] Curry: according to our instructions. I had a quick word
[2306.6] Curry: with Mario, because I was like,
[2308.6] Curry: this seems to suggest it's got a key
[2310.6] Curry: already, but it doesn't have a key.
[2312.6] Curry: I can't see a ground station key. He's just like,
[2314.6] Curry: oh, you should rename the drone key. I was like,
[2316.6] Curry: oh, isn't it like a key pairing, like a
[2318.6] Curry: public-private thing? He's like, no, it's just the same
[2320.6] Curry: phrase in both. It's like,
[2322.6] Curry: oh, okay. So, you just have to have this single
[2324.6] Curry: shared secrets file
[2326.6] Curry: allegedly.
[2328.6] Curry: But, anyway, I just put the drone
[2331.6] Curry: key. The drone key lives on this.
[2333.6] Curry: This is the air end, so this gets a drone key.
[2335.6] Curry: And I took that off using SCP
[2337.6] Curry: and I put it on this. This is the ground station.
[2339.6] Curry: So, we call that the GS key. So, that's
[2341.6] Curry: the ground station key. This is for the
[2343.6] Curry: NFW process.
[2345.6] Curry: Next, next,
[2347.6] Curry: Wi-Fi, whatever it is.
[2349.6] Curry: Anyway, that didn't seem to work. So, I'll
[2351.6] Curry: have a look at that later, because I've just started
[2353.6] Curry: playing with this today. I'll figure it out.
[2355.6] Curry: But, as long as I can SSH
[2357.6] Curry: to it and see what's happening, I'm confident
[2359.6] Curry: about being able to do it. I just
[2361.6] Curry: don't think their instructions are quite
[2363.6] Curry: enough on there.
[2365.6] Curry: Oh, it's very basic.
[2367.6] Stephen: Just plug it in.
[2369.6] Stephen: You don't have to do that.
[2371.6] Curry: Literally, you can turn it on
[2373.6] Curry: and it will just come up
[2375.6] Curry: and start broadcasting.
[2377.6] Curry: It was just the fact that it was like, oh,
[2379.6] Curry: it's got a little Ethernet cable. I'll plug it in and see what's happening.
[2381.6] Curry: You can SSH straight into it.
[2383.6] Stephen: It's already fast.
[2385.6] Curry: No weird dongles.
[2387.6] Curry: So, Runcam have done the work to set it up
[2389.6] Curry: for you.
[2391.6] Curry: They use this little
[2393.6] Curry: I forgot what it's called now.
[2395.6] Curry: There's this little application someone's written
[2397.6] Curry: on Android called
[2400.94] Curry: FPVUE
[2402.94] Curry: View
[2404.94] Curry: which you can find
[2406.94] Curry: on GitHub. I don't think it's on the Play Store.
[2408.94] Curry: That will apparently
[2410.94] Curry: work with
[2412.94] Curry: certain ones of these and it just goes to
[2414.94] Curry: a channel and it uses
[2416.94] Curry: I want to say
[2418.94] Curry: WFB. Have I got
[2420.94] Curry: the name right now?
[2422.94] Curry: Let's have a look. Tell me if it is.
[2424.94] Curry: WFB-NG
[2426.94] Curry: with this key, but I don't
[2428.94] Curry: think the key setup's right at the moment, so
[2430.94] Curry: I'll sort that out.
[2432.94] Jack: I enjoyed your eye hour
[2434.94] Jack: to show us how to do
[2436.94] Jack: Linux video. It's obviously very
[2438.94] Curry: frustrating. Did you get some useful tips, Jack?
[2440.94] Curry: Or have you forgotten it all?
[2442.94] Jack: Yeah, I've forgotten it all.
[2444.94] Jack: The dyslexia.
[2446.94] Jack: But I thoroughly
[2448.94] Jack: now and again, I thoroughly enjoy
[2450.94] Jack: a good old classic. Are you getting
[2452.94] Jack: I mean, can't you split it up into
[2454.94] Jack: two edits where
[2456.94] Jack: one is like a super
[2458.94] Jack: in-depth for nerds
[2460.94] Jack: like me who will sit there and play
[2462.94] Jack: Resident Evil and quite happily listen
[2464.94] Jack: to you for hours.
[2466.94] Jack: If you
[2468.94] Curry: miss a bit out of the setup,
[2470.94] Curry: then people
[2472.94] Curry: can't do it. And you can't
[2474.94] Curry: make assumptions about people's
[2476.94] Curry: knowledge in it
[2478.94] Curry: because it's like, oh, like everyone knows
[2480.94] Curry: Linux, surely. So I just say, look, just
[2482.94] Curry: SSH here, generate this
[2484.94] Curry: key, and then edit this file. And they're like,
[2486.94] Curry: well, how do you edit that? I've tried to edit
[2488.94] Curry: that don't work, right? You have to use Vy.
[2490.94] Curry: Right, the arrow keys don't work and I can't
[2492.94] Curry: seem to type anything. I press I
[2494.94] Curry: for insert.
[2496.94] Curry: And if you want to quit, it's obvious
[2498.94] Curry: it's just colon Q
[2500.94] Stephen: It's colon WQ, come on,
[2502.94] Stephen: come on now.
[2504.94] Curry: You want to write it?
[2506.94] Stephen: Just install nano, to be fair, like
[2508.94] Stephen: all the cool kids using nano, so you want to
[2510.94] Stephen: figure out what the package system is
[2512.94] Stephen: and install nano. What package systems
[2514.94] Stephen: they use on Open IPC, do they have
[2516.94] Stephen: like an IPK based thing like
[2518.94] Stephen: WRT users?
[2520.94] Stephen: What type of packaging manager?
[2522.94] Curry: It is, it doesn't,
[2524.94] Curry: it's this, what is it, it's this minimal
[2526.94] Curry: image thing. It's a code-driven based
[2528.94] Curry: system, right?
[2530.94] Curry: What one? Build root, again.
[2532.94] Curry: That's possibly,
[2534.94] Curry: so it sort of looks like
[2536.94] Curry: a virtual environment inside
[2538.94] Curry: something. So I don't know about
[2540.94] Curry: packages. But to be fair,
[2542.94] Curry: I am so old that I can't use
[2544.94] Curry: any other editor except Vy anyway,
[2546.94] Curry: so it suited me just fine.
[2548.94] Curry: I wouldn't know the need to be cool.
[2550.94] Stephen: Post-market OS that works
[2552.94] Stephen: on small devices, that's like
[2554.94] Stephen: an Alpine Linux based distro.
[2556.94] Stephen: And I've been doing an absolute
[2558.94] Stephen: ton of work with OpenWRT,
[2560.94] Stephen: which uses
[2562.94] Stephen: like IPK formats.
[2564.94] Stephen: But there's a whole load of switches
[2566.94] Stephen: I work with, and there's a whole load of
[2568.94] Stephen: rubbish piled up just off camera, which I've
[2570.94] Stephen: been working on this week. It's been most of my
[2572.94] Stephen: most of my time getting old real-tech
[2574.94] Stephen: switches using the real-tech
[2576.94] Stephen: chipset. They're made by like
[2578.94] Stephen: Xcel, HP,
[2580.94] Stephen: Netgear, and a bunch of others,
[2582.94] Stephen: and I'm trying to stop them
[2584.94] Stephen: going into landfill still.
[2586.94] Stephen: It's kind of like skating uphill, you know,
[2588.94] Stephen: make a little bit of progress, slide back,
[2590.94] Stephen: bit more progress, slide back.
[2594.96] Jack: Challenging.
[2598.21] Jack: I don't know. I just, I think
[2600.21] Jack: you do really well with having like
[2602.21] Jack: one video
[2604.21] Jack: in-depth tutorial
[2606.21] Jack: step-by-step, and then
[2608.21] Jack: another one that just goes,
[2610.21] Jack: I set it up
[2612.21] Jack: like, sort of like real, sort of like
[2614.21] Jack: Michael Reeves' Zoomer energy
[2616.21] Jack: like editing, and
[2618.21] Jack: just like this, and
[2620.21] Jack: it looks like this, and I flew it like that,
[2622.21] Jack: and, ooh,
[2624.21] Jack: look at the glitching, and
[2626.21] Jack: somehow it works.
[2628.21] Jack: Do you
[2630.21] Curry: know who Michael Reeves is?
[2632.21] Curry: I don't.
[2634.21] Stephen: Why not?
[2636.21] Stephen: It depends what your
[2638.21] Stephen: audience is, right? I think
[2640.21] Stephen: you make those kind of
[2642.21] Stephen: hyperbolic videos, they get a certain
[2644.21] Stephen: audience, but they're not necessarily
[2646.21] Stephen: what people really need to
[2648.21] Stephen: understand the product.
[2650.21] Stephen: They're just going to get you
[2652.21] Stephen: a bunch of clicks, they're not really going to
[2654.21] Stephen: help anyone, you know?
[2656.21] Jack: I guess you hit the
[2658.21] Jack: back button on their mouse.
[2664.21] Curry: Nice.
[2668.21] Curry: Yeah, no,
[2670.21] Curry: it's really difficult. If you're
[2672.21] Curry: making videos generally, and for
[2674.21] Curry: example, you come up and it's like a new
[2676.21] Curry: radio, and it's like an
[2678.21] Curry: EdgeTX radio, and you say,
[2680.21] Curry: this is nice, I like gimbals
[2682.21] Curry: and stuff, and then people are like
[2684.21] Curry: I don't understand how to set up EdgeTX,
[2686.21] Curry: so it's like I can't describe it every
[2688.21] Curry: time I have a new radio. Go and
[2690.21] Curry: have you researched, have you typed in EdgeTX
[2692.21] Stephen: in the beginning?
[2694.21] Stephen: You fall through the interface, and
[2696.21] Stephen: so you find something that looks familiar, and
[2698.21] Stephen: start clicking.
[2700.21] Jack: Are you angry at me knowing
[2702.21] Jack: EdgeTX and not so much about
[2704.21] Jack: Linux?
[2706.21] Curry: It's just your inability to retain
[2708.21] Curry: any information, like
[2710.21] Jack: it's frustrating.
[2712.21] Curry: I'm sorry.
[2714.21] Curry: It's my time like Jack, so which commands do you use now?
[2716.21] Curry: It's just a man guessing
[2718.21] Curry: random commands until he hits someone
[2720.21] Curry: or something.
[2722.21] Stephen: But that's okay, that's not your fault.
[2724.21] Stephen: I started off as a Windows guy,
[2726.21] Stephen: I was like a Windows support
[2728.21] Stephen: guy for years, and then eventually
[2730.21] Stephen: I just got really pissed off with Windows
[2732.21] Stephen: making my life hell.
[2734.21] Stephen: It's got even worse.
[2736.21] Stephen: It's got worse, yeah
[2738.21] Stephen: I heard.
[2740.21] Stephen: Yeah, they're special now.
[2742.21] Stephen: There's a vulnerability this week that
[2744.21] Stephen: you can just, well there was
[2746.21] Stephen: one a couple of weeks ago where you could send
[2748.21] Stephen: any arbitrary like WiFi
[2750.21] Stephen: data to something, and you got root privileges,
[2752.21] Stephen: and then they found another one where you
[2754.21] Stephen: send any arbitrary
[2756.21] Stephen: IPv6 packet, and they get
[2758.21] Stephen: root privileges. It's like
[2760.21] Stephen: they're not even testing this s*** anymore,
[2762.21] Stephen: they're just discovering bugs that
[2764.21] Stephen: have existed for 25
[2766.21] Stephen: or 30 years, and it's just
[2768.21] Stephen: I just don't want to deal with that, you know?
[2770.21] Stephen: If you work with stuff where you
[2772.21] Stephen: have to actually put these computers directly
[2774.21] Stephen: on the internet without firewall
[2776.21] Stephen: and they've got to be up there
[2778.21] Stephen: every day all year,
[2780.21] Stephen: it's just too
[2782.21] Stephen: much hard work to worry
[2784.21] Stephen: about that stuff.
[2786.21] Stephen: Half the time when you're patching
[2788.21] Stephen: to try and fix these horrible problems that
[2790.21] Stephen: allow someone to get into your system,
[2792.21] Stephen: you inadvertently deploy a patch
[2794.21] Stephen: from Microsoft to break
[2796.21] Stephen: something that you're already using
[2798.21] Stephen: and it's just, oh
[2802.21] Stephen: screw it. I'd rather like
[2804.21] Stephen: if I have to read a phone directory and then
[2806.21] Stephen: it's definitely going to work once I read a phone directory
[2808.21] Stephen: of information, I will read a phone book.
[2810.21] Stephen: Just to know
[2812.21] Stephen: that it works, you know?
[2814.21] Curry: I would like to say that when I
[2816.21] Curry: worked in tests, which was
[2818.21] Curry: system verification tests, which was like
[2820.21] Curry: doing the
[2822.21] Curry: stress and like, let's make it
[2824.21] Curry: break somehow, we did a pretty good job.
[2826.21] Curry: But one time when I
[2828.21] Curry: worked for IBM, we released a version of Java
[2830.21] Curry: and nobody checked that they updated
[2832.21] Curry: the version, so it just went out with the same
[2834.21] Curry: version as previously, so that is
[2836.21] Curry: you know, we tested the crap out of it
[2838.21] Curry: for crashing and recovery and security,
[2840.21] Curry: and no one ever checked it, it wasn't called
[2842.21] Curry: 1.4 anymore, it was now called 1.5.
[2844.21] Curry: That was quite special.
[2846.21] Stephen: I'd really like to stop doing IT
[2848.21] Stephen: and be a technical writer or something,
[2850.21] Stephen: or just something that's a bit more
[2852.21] Stephen: creative. I've been doing IT for
[2854.21] Stephen: 20 years and I do question like
[2857.58] Stephen: maybe it's just a health
[2859.58] Stephen: which I think
[2861.58] Stephen: Curry realised a while ago,
[2863.58] Stephen: is probably older and wiser than I am, but
[2865.58] Stephen: I'm convinced there might be some redeeming
[2867.58] Stephen: aspects to it that's probably just
[2869.58] Curry: a lot. To be fair, I stayed in it for more years
[2871.58] Curry: than you, I'd done like
[2873.58] Curry: about 26
[2875.58] Curry: years before I got finally fed up,
[2877.58] Curry: so you've got a little while before you lose
[2879.58] Curry: it completely and start thinking about
[2881.58] Curry: how to murder everybody around you, thanks.
[2883.58] Stephen: Well, there's no sharp
[2885.58] Stephen: objects on my desk, so phase
[2887.58] Stephen: one is complete, pre-empting
[2889.58] Stephen: you know,
[2891.58] Stephen: we'll make sure it's okay.
[2893.58] Stephen: And besides, no one's invented a machine that lets
[2895.58] Stephen: me stab someone through the internet,
[2897.58] Stephen: so it's alright, it's fine.
[2899.58] Stephen: It's coming, it's coming.
[2901.58] Stephen: I don't want to remember
[2903.58] Stephen: bash.org. I'm going to be
[2905.58] Stephen: rich and famous
[2907.58] Stephen: when I invent a machine that
[2909.58] Stephen: allows me to punch someone in the face through the
[2911.58] Stephen: internet. I think it was something like that.
[2913.58] Curry: I think it could happen, but
[2915.58] Curry: people would have to consent to having these
[2917.58] Curry: like punchy things above their monitor.
[2919.58] Stephen: Yeah.
[2921.58] Stephen: Just a matter of time, you know, you can sell someone
[2923.58] Stephen: a television with a camera
[2925.58] Stephen: in it now and microphones.
[2927.58] Stephen: Why not, you know, just a boxing glove
[2929.58] Stephen: just like every sofa comes with
[2931.58] Stephen: like a boxing glove that sits
[2933.58] Stephen: right next to your crotch or your face or something
[2935.58] Stephen: and you're like, what was that for?
[2937.58] Stephen: Don't worry about that, don't worry about it.
[2939.58] Stephen: Just plug it in, yeah, you've got to have like a seat warmer
[2941.58] Stephen: connected, so plug it in, plug it in.
[2943.58] Stephen: And then like, you have the haptics in
[2945.58] Stephen: I.D.R. that can punch you in the face
[2947.58] Stephen: or in the nuts over the internet.
[2949.58] Stephen: So job done.
[2951.58] Curry: Welcome to Let's IT Out.
[2953.58] Curry: Yeah.
[2955.58] Stephen: We could be swimming in money
[2957.58] Stephen: by selling a machine that allows
[2959.58] Stephen: people to punch other people
[2961.58] Stephen: over the internet.
[2963.58] Stephen: Yeah.
[2967.25] Jack: It's called learning reinforcements.
[2969.25] Curry: Every time you type the wrong command,
[2972.59] Curry: you get a little reinforcement
[2974.59] Curry: that you did the wrong thing.
[2976.59] Curry: I think the only way you'd really sell it
[2978.59] Curry: is if the board of directors at
[2980.59] Stephen: Microsoft were the first ones
[2982.59] Stephen: to get the power of the internet.
[2984.59] Stephen: Microsoft were the first ones to get
[2986.59] Stephen: the punching gloves fitted to all of their seats, right?
[2988.59] Stephen: They can be the guinea pigs
[2990.59] Stephen: and we'll know if it's successful.
[2992.59] Jack: Why stop at punching?
[2994.59] Jack: Why not just go straight to tasing?
[2996.59] Stephen: That's a good question.
[3000.45] Stephen: But then where do you draw the line?
[3002.45] Stephen: Maybe you don't.
[3004.45] Stephen: Your sofa's now just a giant meat grinder.
[3006.45] Stephen: Sit down carefully.
[3010.45] Stephen: Caroline Tyler
[3012.45] Stephen: points out that she's always wanted
[3014.45] Stephen: electrified, shocking keyboards
[3016.45] Stephen: and mouse under IT control.
[3018.45] Stephen: That would probably work.
[3020.45] Stephen: Yeah.
[3022.45] Stephen: I quite like this comment.
[3024.45] Jack: Wayne could make a hundred
[3026.45] Jack: usual shorts about setting it up.
[3028.45] Stephen: That is right. That is right for me.
[3030.45] Stephen: Cut it, put it in portrait mode
[3032.45] Stephen: and just have a bunch
[3034.45] Stephen: of flashing pink and yellow text on the screen
[3036.45] Stephen: and zoom in and zoom in
[3038.45] Stephen: to a command line
[3040.45] Stephen: where you're typing really slowly.
[3042.45] Stephen: Really slowly.
[3046.45] Curry: I like it.
[3048.45] Curry: Show this one little command there.
[3050.45] Curry: You have to go over after like
[3052.45] Curry: two characters and so on.
[3054.45] Stephen: Do this.
[3056.45] Stephen: Now look at the other 15 shorts in the series.
[3058.45] Stephen: Each with one line of text.
[3060.45] Stephen: Fun.
[3064.75] Jack: Fun, fun, fun.
[3066.75] Jack: I was...
[3068.75] Jack: there's this
[3070.75] Jack: lady who
[3072.75] Jack: is on...
[3074.75] Jack: who does like general electronics
[3076.75] Jack: and stuff and
[3078.75] Jack: the reason why I found it
[3080.75] Jack: I'm going to offer
[3082.75] Jack: some teaching lessons on electronics
[3084.75] Jack: and it's like
[3086.75] Jack: this is what an electron does.
[3088.75] Jack: You know, like that's
[3090.75] Jack: the starting point.
[3092.75] Stephen: What does an electron do Jack?
[3094.75] Stephen: Does it hang out around the corner of the street?
[3096.75] Stephen: Looking for trouble?
[3098.75] Jack: Yep, yep.
[3100.75] Jack: And isn't it
[3102.75] Jack: negatively charged
[3104.75] Jack: ion or something?
[3106.75] Jack: I don't know.
[3108.75] Jack: I'm waiting
[3110.75] Jack: for them to go up on YouTube
[3112.75] Jack: but I randomly tuned in
[3114.75] Jack: and she's making
[3116.75] Jack: a drone
[3118.75] Jack: and she's talking about
[3120.75] Jack: KV instead of the size of
[3122.75] Jack: motors and
[3124.75] Jack: is going to use an Arduino Uno.
[3126.75] Jack: So
[3128.75] Jack: you would rip your
[3130.75] Jack: dick off
[3132.75] Jack: and just want to throw it
[3134.75] Jack: at her.
[3136.75] Stephen: She's going to build like a two kilo
[3138.75] Stephen: monster with like 0802
[3140.75] Stephen: motors.
[3142.75] Jack: I don't know.
[3144.75] Jack: I don't want to spread hate.
[3146.75] Jack: It's okay because we're inside the hobby
[3148.75] Jack: and I want to get into the gatekeeping
[3150.75] Jack: or sexistness.
[3152.75] Stephen: Physics and engineering are not the same subject.
[3154.75] Jack: Incredibly smart person.
[3156.75] Jack: Very talented.
[3158.75] Jack: And then
[3160.75] Jack: you kind of go into the drone thing
[3162.75] Jack: and it's that sort of
[3164.75] Jack: level of like
[3166.75] Jack: we appreciate
[3168.75] Jack: the sort of like groundwork and stuff
[3170.75] Jack: that's already been done and is built upon
[3172.75] Jack: and it's just like
[3174.75] Jack: I'm too dyslexic
[3176.75] Jack: to not write
[3178.75] Jack: just a wall of text of
[3180.75] Jack: it's the size of the stator
[3182.75] Jack: you know, refers
[3184.75] Jack: to the inside of a motor as windings
[3186.75] Jack: instead of stator.
[3188.75] Jack: It's very difficult.
[3190.75] Jack: I couldn't
[3192.75] Jack: watch that stream.
[3194.75] Stephen: Well, you should appreciate that
[3196.75] Stephen: the moment of talk, right, because that's all
[3198.75] Stephen: it's coming down to, right?
[3200.75] Stephen: It's all down to levers at the end of the day, isn't it?
[3202.75] Stephen: How much force and how much
[3204.75] Stephen: distance you've got to work with.
[3206.75] Curry: Yeah.
[3208.75] Curry: I can see how someone who didn't know
[3210.75] Curry: motors would make the mistake because it's like
[3212.75] Curry: well this one goes faster than that one, therefore
[3214.75] Curry: my drone goes quicker.
[3216.75] Curry: Size of prop and motor surely doesn't
[3218.75] Curry: matter. That's just like we spin this quick.
[3220.75] Curry: I find
[3222.75] Curry: these little tiny ones at like
[3224.75] Curry: 22,000 kV, that's going to
[3226.75] Curry: go really quick. Put that on, put my age
[3228.75] Stephen: prop.
[3230.75] Stephen: Couple of adapters, a few nuts.
[3232.75] Jack: I mean
[3234.75] Jack: she's working on like
[3236.75] Jack: one of those like UFO
[3238.75] Jack: brushed motors
[3240.75] Jack: and she thinks that
[3242.75] Jack: she's burnt out a motor and I'm like
[3244.75] Jack: I doubt it, probably one of your hairs
[3246.75] Jack: has just been caught up on
[3248.75] Jack: the shaft.
[3250.75] Stephen: Brushed motors do burn out though.
[3252.75] Jack: Yeah, or, phoning that,
[3254.75] Jack: it needs
[3256.75] Jack: calibrating, you know, the sort of
[3258.75] Jack: level calibration.
[3260.75] Stephen: It's quite ambitious to just start from
[3262.75] Stephen: ground zero. I would not try and
[3264.75] Stephen: do it all on an Arduino. That would be
[3266.75] Stephen: like an Arduino struggle.
[3268.75] Stephen: That's a lot of coding to do.
[3270.75] Jack: Yeah, Arduino Uno as well
[3272.75] Jack: right here.
[3274.75] Stephen: I mean that's what each is.
[3276.75] Stephen: Those were the big fat ones, weren't they? Like the first generation
[3278.75] Stephen: Arduino's. Yeah, those have got the
[3280.75] Curry: super 8-bit chips on.
[3282.75] Curry: You know, you don't want it to run too fast.
[3284.75] Curry: I'm sure it like seems it's all
[3286.75] Curry: pretty basic. It's going to be like okay
[3288.75] Curry: if you start up all four motors it's just going to go
[3290.75] Curry: like that. If we run these two motors quicker
[3292.75] Curry: it's probably going to go like that. Brilliant.
[3294.75] Curry: Okay, we can sort that out and let's just put this control in.
[3296.75] Stephen: The time scales have helped.
[3298.75] Stephen: If these motors start
[3300.75] Stephen: point one of a second before the others
[3302.75] Stephen: it all just flips upside down and
[3304.75] Stephen: pure race itself into a thousand parts.
[3306.75] Curry: That's weird. All motors say
[3308.75] Curry: they're going the same speed but this thing's like flipping
[3310.75] Curry: out and doing weird stuff.
[3312.75] Jack: I might send
[3314.75] Jack: the link to Dominic Clifton
[3316.75] Jack: so he can
[3318.75] Jack: sort of like educate
[3320.75] Stephen: I wonder how Dom's pick and place
[3322.75] Stephen: firm was going. I saw he was
[3324.75] Stephen: going. Oh, the 7-hour stream.
[3328.75] Stephen: 60 megahertz.
[3332.75] Curry: That would have been good in the 80s.
[3334.75] Stephen: There was an 8 megahertz one. I think I've got some of
[3336.75] Stephen: the 8 megahertz ones kicking around somewhere.
[3338.75] Stephen: Yeah, it's a nano, isn't it?
[3340.75] Stephen: Yeah, yeah. A nano or the micro.
[3342.75] Stephen: Oh, looks like
[3344.75] Stephen: Dom's been putting out a load of videos
[3346.75] Stephen: I'm afraid I haven't watched. I think I watched
[3348.75] Stephen: the first one which was like a
[3350.75] Stephen: two hour long video.
[3352.75] Stephen: That was
[3354.75] Stephen: an intensive video, Dom.
[3356.75] Stephen: But I'd be interested
[3358.75] Stephen: in hearing a kind of
[3360.75] Stephen: a brief update for those of us
[3362.75] Stephen: maybe of weaker constitutions.
[3364.75] Jack: I'm going to
[3366.75] Jack: find
[3368.75] Jack: the old videos
[3372.75] Jack: and send it to Dom.
[3374.75] Curry: How is your CNC
[3376.75] Curry: milling going, Stephen?
[3378.75] Stephen: Oh, we made a thing. Yeah, yeah.
[3380.75] Stephen: So I've got a little 3018
[3382.75] Stephen: but for those interested, it's
[3384.75] Stephen: the same smart one. So it's a
[3386.75] Stephen: Prover V2
[3388.75] Stephen: which is like the
[3390.75] Stephen: original 3018 with a few
[3392.75] Stephen: years of iterations and upgrades all
[3394.75] Stephen: bolted on from the factory.
[3396.75] Stephen: Seems alright. I've got a
[3398.75] Stephen: Pi on there that does the actual controls
[3400.75] Stephen: so you don't need to leave a laptop attached the whole
[3402.75] Stephen: time. So I've got a Pi running CNC
[3404.75] Stephen: JS
[3406.75] Stephen: and that lets me
[3408.75] Stephen: pass some G code files to the Pi
[3410.75] Stephen: and the Pi converts those
[3412.75] Stephen: to gerbil and
[3414.75] Stephen: sends them to
[3416.75] Stephen: the mill. That speaks to that
[3418.75] Stephen: GRBL language which is like
[3420.75] Stephen: the control language
[3422.75] Stephen: that most of these CNCs are using.
[3424.75] Stephen: I don't know exactly what version it is.
[3426.75] Stephen: My one beef so
[3428.75] Stephen: far is that if the tool bit gets
[3430.75] Stephen: damaged, I can
[3432.75] Stephen: pause the cut
[3434.75] Stephen: but I can't easily
[3436.75] Stephen: change the tool. There's no command that
[3438.75] Stephen: lets me change the tool mid-cut
[3440.75] Stephen: which is a bit annoying.
[3442.75] Jack: Well you've got to return to home haven't you?
[3444.75] Jack: You've got to stop and then...
[3446.75] Stephen: You've got to return to home but that
[3448.75] Stephen: stops the current program
[3450.75] Stephen: so you can do it
[3452.75] Stephen: again by slicing thin air
[3454.75] Stephen: for like an hour until it gets
[3456.75] Stephen: to where it was I suppose but
[3458.75] Stephen: it's a bit of a pain in the arse.
[3460.75] Jack: There must be a
[3462.75] Stephen: pause.
[3464.75] Stephen: Well I actually read the
[3466.75] Stephen: GRBL code base
[3468.75] Stephen: and there is a safety door
[3470.75] Stephen: so if you do a pause
[3472.75] Stephen: you can't send any other commands.
[3474.75] Stephen: When it's in a pause state
[3476.75] Stephen: it doesn't accept any commands except for
[3478.75] Stephen: unpause. So that means if your
[3480.75] Stephen: spindle's going and the spindle's
[3482.75] Stephen: controlled by the board
[3484.75] Stephen: and not by a separate switch, you can't
[3486.75] Stephen: stop the spindle on QED
[3488.75] Stephen: you can't change the spindle.
[3490.75] Stephen: You can't even raise the
[3492.75] Stephen: bit out of the cut
[3494.75] Stephen: to get at it.
[3496.75] Stephen: So there's a safety door thing.
[3498.75] Stephen: But no one seems to have implemented this safety door mechanism
[3500.75] Stephen: which the safety door is like
[3502.75] Stephen: stop the motor, put it in
[3504.75] Stephen: a safe position, and then
[3506.75] Stephen: you know, that's what happens
[3508.75] Stephen: when you open the door on a proper industrial
[3510.75] Stephen: machine, it moves the tool head
[3512.75] Stephen: out of anywhere, it might harm you
[3514.75] Stephen: and puts it in a safe space.
[3516.75] Jack: I wonder if it's in the
[3518.75] Jack: hidden
[3520.75] Jack: the power
[3522.75] Jack: loss
[3524.75] Jack: resume, because I think that's
[3526.75] Jack: what the old
[3528.75] Jack: Ender 3's were like.
[3530.75] Jack: I just hit the big red button.
[3532.75] Jack: They have
[3534.75] Jack: a thing where they just
[3536.75] Jack: put it into power interrupt
[3538.75] Jack: and then the resume
[3540.75] Stephen: job. But it's not an ender
[3542.75] Stephen: so it's running a completely different
[3544.75] Stephen: it doesn't run
[3546.75] Stephen: it's not running like Marlin
[3548.75] Stephen: or other G-code interpreters
[3550.75] Stephen: it's running this
[3552.75] Stephen: GRBL language
[3554.75] Stephen: which is totally different and that's where
[3556.75] Stephen: the problems come from. It's interpreting
[3558.75] Stephen: G-code into GRBL
[3560.75] Stephen: and so you get a shape
[3562.75] Stephen: and you slice it
[3564.75] Stephen: and you slice it to produce G-code and then you give
[3566.75] Stephen: it to a system that interprets the G-code
[3568.75] Stephen: into GRBL and sends GRBL
[3570.75] Stephen: to the mill.
[3572.75] Stephen: So I can send
[3574.75] Stephen: G-code commands and they just
[3576.75] Stephen: bounce off this thing because it's like well
[3578.75] Stephen: at this point in my
[3580.75] Stephen: stream of GRBL commands
[3582.75] Stephen: is not valid to
[3584.75] Stephen: insert this additional command. You hit
[3586.75] Stephen: pause and if I hit pause on
[3588.75] Stephen: my 3D printer I can go in and change
[3590.75] Stephen: the temperature or I can change
[3592.75] Stephen: the movement speed or I can do a
[3594.75] Stephen: retract or whatever. I can't
[3596.75] Stephen: do that with the mill. If I
[3598.75] Stephen: hit pause in the mill
[3600.75] Stephen: the GRBL pause command
[3602.75] Stephen: blocks all the other commands. So I'm thinking I have
[3604.75] Stephen: to recompile
[3606.75] Stephen: GRBL for this board or buy
[3608.75] Stephen: an entirely new board and
[3610.75] Stephen: compile custom GRBL for it
[3612.75] Stephen: and put the board in and I just
[3614.75] Stephen: oh my word, yeah
[3616.75] Stephen: so I'm just going to say screw it. For now
[3618.75] Stephen: it works. We've got some decent end mills
[3620.75] Stephen: at last. I started out with some V-bits
[3622.75] Stephen: they're fine for writing letters
[3624.75] Stephen: but terrible for everything else.
[3626.75] Stephen: Of course the proper up cut
[3628.75] Stephen: two flute end mills. They're looking
[3630.75] Stephen: good. Then we tried to do ply
[3632.75] Stephen: and we found out with ply, if you have
[3634.75] Stephen: a sheet of ply, so sheet of ply
[3636.75] Stephen: end mill go down to
[3638.75] Stephen: up cut is throwing chips up
[3640.75] Stephen: with sheets of ply
[3642.75] Stephen: that means it just splinters
[3644.75] Stephen: the edges and they explode up
[3646.75] Stephen: so you end up with really rough edges. So I've got
[3648.75] Stephen: a down cut end mill now
[3650.75] Stephen: that'll push the chips
[3652.75] Stephen: down which won't clear the chips as quickly
[3654.75] Stephen: but it means that the layers
[3656.75] Stephen: won't get exploded
[3658.75] Stephen: hopefully. So fingers crossed that works
[3660.75] Stephen: it's a learning process.
[3662.75] Stephen: It's quite cute to
[3664.75] Stephen: have the ply with a little web interface
[3666.75] Stephen: I quite like CNCJS
[3668.75] Stephen: that's been good. I
[3670.75] Stephen: hate leaving laptops
[3672.75] Stephen: connected to machines when they're running
[3674.75] Stephen: I don't really want the laptop controlling
[3676.75] Stephen: anything. I want it on a dedicated
[3678.75] Stephen: box so the
[3680.75] Stephen: ply's been nice there.
[3682.75] Stephen: Anyway, yeah
[3684.75] Stephen: it's a good laugh. We're able to make
[3686.75] Stephen: things. You can draw them. We're using
[3688.75] Stephen: easel as a really simple way
[3690.75] Stephen: to draw stuff. You can do a roughing
[3692.75] Stephen: pass that takes out the bulk of material
[3694.75] Stephen: and then a finishing pass with that.
[3696.75] Stephen: It's alright.
[3698.75] Jack: It's good. No, it's good to know where
[3700.75] Jack: you're at.
[3702.75] Stephen: Yeah, I would recommend
[3704.75] Stephen: it's a laugh
[3706.75] Stephen: and I was worried about the bits
[3708.75] Stephen: snapping and going everywhere but
[3710.75] Stephen: I've just got a massive Tupperware box and put it over
[3712.75] Stephen: the top.
[3716.22] Curry: I did look at them and they seemed very expensive.
[3718.22] Curry: Was it very expensive or was it not too bad?
[3720.22] Curry: It's like 300 quid.
[3722.22] Curry: How big can it cut?
[3724.22] Stephen: I suppose that's the bigger thing.
[3726.22] Stephen: It's a 30 18 so it's 30
[3728.22] Stephen: centimeters by 18.
[3730.22] Curry: Very small bit of wood.
[3732.22] Stephen: About 40 mil deep.
[3734.22] Stephen: You lose a bit of that for
[3736.22] Stephen: putting a roughing board on it.
[3738.22] Stephen: I was never going to
[3740.22] Stephen: make anything gigantic. If I did want to make
[3742.22] Stephen: quad parts I could make
[3744.22] Stephen: most frames that are not
[3746.22] Stephen: like unibodies so I'd be able to cut.
[3748.22] Stephen: So there's that.
[3751.6] Stephen: It's getting the quality carbon though, isn't it?
[3753.6] Stephen: Don't mind if it's a 30 18 CNC too.
[3755.6] Stephen: Yeah, I found
[3757.6] Stephen: there's a whole bunch of places that sell it.
[3759.6] Stephen: It's really not
[3761.6] Stephen: cost effective unless I have
[3763.6] Stephen: a burning desire to make my own frames.
[3765.6] Stephen: Buying sheets of carbon is
[3767.6] Stephen: pretty expensive. It's about
[3769.6] Stephen: 30 old quidditch sheet
[3771.6] Stephen: for 4 mil carbon.
[3773.6] Stephen: I don't know.
[3775.6] Jack: I don't know.
[3777.6] Jack: Buy your own roll and
[3779.6] Jack: get one of those duvet vacuum
[3781.6] Jack: packs and
[3783.6] Jack: make your own sheet.
[3785.6] Stephen: Life's too short. I'll just
[3787.6] Stephen: spend the money and get someone else to do that.
[3789.6] Stephen: The thing is for these projects you buy all this
[3791.6] Stephen: ancillary equipment and
[3793.6] Stephen: you only do it a handful of times
[3795.6] Stephen: and then you've just got tons of
[3797.6] Stephen: crap sitting around that you're not using
[3799.6] Stephen: and you've got chemicals
[3801.6] Stephen: that go off and you've got stuff that gets
[3803.6] Stephen: broken when you move it around.
[3805.6] Stephen: I buy an occasional sheet
[3807.6] Stephen: and give it a shot but I'm not going to try
[3809.6] Stephen: laminating one.
[3811.6] Jack: On the turn PCB, even PCB
[3813.6] Jack: white carbon now.
[3815.6] Jack: It's crazy.
[3817.6] Jack: Unfortunately
[3819.6] Jack: that's all we've got time for.
[3821.6] Jack: Stephen, do you want to see us out?
[3823.6] Stephen: Thank you our wonderful Patreons.
[3825.6] Stephen: It's excellent that you support the show.
[3827.6] Stephen: We really appreciate it.
[3829.6] Stephen: Thank you for helping everything
[3831.6] Stephen: stay online. We just had to renew our
[3833.6] Stephen: website recently so really
[3835.6] Stephen: appreciate it. You have been joined
[3837.6] Stephen: by everyone's favourite
[3839.6] Stephen: Curry Kitten. Goodbye.
[3841.6] Stephen: And the originator
[3843.6] Stephen: the man himself,
[3845.6] Stephen: Jack, right until I fly.
[3847.6] Stephen: And myself, Stephen.
[3849.6] Stephen: This has been Let's Drone Out
[3851.6] Stephen: episode 469.
[3853.6] Stephen: Cheers everyone. Bye.
[3855.6] Curry: Telemetry lost.