=== Let's Drone Out — Episode 473 ===
Title: LDO 473 - Silly News And Camera Views
Recorded: 2024-09-19
Hosts: Stephen "Belrik" Howell, Koel "Koala" Anderson, Wayne "CurryKitten" Andrews, Jack "Brightontillifly" Nash, Andrew "Frank" Hyams
Guest(s): (none recorded)
Total audience: 816
Platforms: YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYDePukweh8); SoundCloud (http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/feeds.soundcloud.com/stream/1920026090-letsdroneout-ldo-473-silly-news-and-camera-views.mp3)
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[0.0] Jack: Hello and you're listening to Let's Drone Out and special thank you to our lovely patrons
[6.3] Jack: that helped donate so that we could pay the editor to remove the swear words and silly
[11.04] Jack: things we say.
[13.0] Jack: Massive thank you to…
[14.4] Jack: Carlos Campos!
[16.0] Frank: Art Faulkner.
[18.0] Frank: Sam Dahmer.
[19.68] Frank: On with the show.
[20.68] Jack: Hello and welcome, you're listening to Let's Drone Out, tonight we are joined by everyone's
[57.25] Jack: favourite curry kitten.
[58.25] Jack: Hello.
[59.25] Jack: I'd like to make a public apology, I thought he was like eating crackers or having a biscuit,
[66.89] Jack: even having a wank last week, he wasn't, I said something highly appropriate due to
[73.77] Jack: his situation and I'm very sorry for that.
[77.93] Jack: Please forgive me.
[80.73] Jack: And I am pleased to have returning my buddy, Cole.
[84.81] Jack: Howdy.
[85.81] Jack: Cole sold his soul to the corporate overlords, but now he is back running open source firmware
[100.29] Jack: better than ever.
[103.49] Koel: Yes I was temporarily under a spell and now that the veil has been lifted and I am back
[110.73] Koel: to reality.
[114.45] Koel: Whatever that may be.
[115.57] Stephen: For the sake of our listeners, would you care to decode that?
[118.97] Stephen: No.
[119.97] Koel: Not really, actually, yeah, not exactly.
[122.61] Jack: Damn it.
[125.61] Jack: I legally cannot.
[127.61] Jack: And next to me is the man with a star, Stephen.
[132.25] Jack: Hello everyone.
[134.25] Jack: He's recently visited me and seen how I live and he wasn't impressed.
[138.33] Stephen: Yeah, Jack needs, Jack has a comically small table with a very large number of things on
[142.25] Stephen: that.
[143.25] Stephen: So I think the order of business is to sort out Jack's table.
[148.13] Stephen: The area he's podcasting from is like unbelievably crowded.
[153.29] Stephen: So we'll see what we can do about that.
[156.01] Stephen: I need Jack to measure the space and then maybe we can find it better.
[160.17] Jack: I don't know whether I trust myself.
[161.97] Koel: That was your first time.
[165.37] Stephen: Taking a picture instead of writing their numbers down.
[167.97] Stephen: I don't know.
[168.97] Stephen: Whatever works.
[169.97] Jack: Yeah.
[171.69] Jack: Yes.
[172.69] Jack: Since the great return, the great return.
[177.17] Stephen: Back once again.
[178.17] Jack: Yeah.
[179.17] Jack: And I'm your host right until I fly.
[181.97] Jack: Let's start the show.
[184.37] Jack: So how has everyone but anyone been flying?
[188.45] Jack: I went yesterday.
[189.45] Jack: Did you?
[190.45] Jack: Yeah, me too.
[191.45] Jack: Oh, yeah.
[192.45] Jack: Who wants to go first?
[198.01] Koel: Curry said at first, he gets to go first.
[201.17] UNKNOWN: Okay.
[202.17] Curry: Well, I went out because I was a bit bored of being inside and it was quite warm.
[207.01] Curry: And when I left the house, it was like super calm and there was no wind.
[212.21] Curry: And when I got to the field, it was like 20 mile an hour wind.
[216.01] Curry: And one of the quads I wanted to play was this little tiny thing.
[219.01] Curry: And it didn't much like 20 mile an hour winds.
[221.53] Curry: And we got lots of footage where it's essentially doing this, which is fun to watch.
[228.45] Curry: Yeah, I went I was out flying that one because this is by test score.
[232.65] Curry: This is a little folding forage.
[235.57] Curry: Although it's got it's got an SBI receiver, it's got an actual antenna, but an SBI receiver.
[240.53] Curry: So at about a kilometer, it was like about minus 100.
[244.37] Curry: I was like, I'm gonna have to turn around.
[246.05] Curry: But it does about 10 minutes on the 10 year old 1.3 amp 3s, which I thought was okay.
[253.45] Curry: Although occasionally it's going along saying I've got 25 satellites, all is good.
[256.85] Curry: And then it just disappears completely.
[259.61] Curry: And then five minutes later says I've got 25 satellites again.
[262.41] Stephen: Yeah.
[263.41] Stephen: Small quads and GPS man, I'm really struggling to get GPS on anything smaller than a five
[268.41] Stephen: inch.
[269.41] Stephen: It's just something about when you go down to an AIO, smaller boards, the noise just shoots
[274.45] Curry: up.
[275.45] Curry: It's not like you see the satellites, you know how they go down and then you get like
[279.77] Curry: you know, four and then go to zero.
[281.85] Curry: It just goes like, I'm going to check the wiring because it's like someone's just unplugged
[287.09] Curry: the receiver.
[288.09] Curry: And then five minutes later after some shaking, it's like, oh, it's just it doesn't like unback,
[293.25] Curry: but nothing.
[294.25] Curry: And just like I went 25 again.
[296.37] Curry: That was a bit weird.
[298.69] Curry: And then I was I was testing to seven inches.
[301.25] Curry: I had my my old rubbish one with a five watt VTX to test out, which was okay cooking, but
[312.41] Curry: I was I was getting bad, bad stuff on my receiver.
[316.85] Curry: Unfortunately, I didn't have the I use dynamic power these days on Express LRS, but I forgot
[323.89] Curry: to put what power it was on the OSD.
[327.41] Curry: So I wasn't sure.
[328.41] Curry: And again, I went out and I wanted to go out sort of multiple kilometers.
[331.21] Curry: But again, I was at one point five kilometers over the ocean, the sea.
[336.89] Curry: And it's like, oh, it's going to minus 97 hours.
[339.65] Curry: And I was like, that's a bit that's a bit crap.
[341.69] Curry: It shouldn't be like this.
[343.37] Curry: And I happened to be using the the Nomad module from RadioMaster with between dual band antennas.
[350.33] Curry: And I was thinking, oh, these antennas are rubbish.
[353.49] Curry: Maybe I need to put a proper like eight, six, eight antenna on.
[356.29] Curry: But then after those, I flew my walks now quad, which is also an eight, six, eight.
[361.17] Curry: And I flew up to one point something kilometers.
[364.17] Curry: And it was like at minus 80.
[366.05] Curry: And it did have the OSD showing the power and it said Timothy Watts.
[370.97] Curry: So it's like, OK, I don't think it's the antennas.
[374.25] Curry: I think it's something else because this seems to be handling that no problem at all.
[378.13] Curry: It was interesting flying that because I flew two analog quads and then walks now.
[381.01] Curry: And I was like, Jesus, why am I why am I still flying analog?
[384.45] Curry: It was like so much nicer.
[385.93] Curry: It was like, oh, this is lovely.
[387.73] Curry: I'm enjoying flying this.
[388.73] Curry: And you go to analog is like, oh, this is bumpy and horrible.
[391.77] Curry: It's hard to go back.
[394.13] Curry: It's worse going forwards, actually.
[395.85] Curry: I remember going the other week and I flew walks now first and then I moved over to
[400.57] Curry: another quad to do something.
[401.77] Curry: I was like, oh, gee, something's wrong with the camera.
[403.37] Curry: It's like something I was messing around with it again.
[407.33] Curry: Yeah. And it's like, oh, no, this is analog.
[409.33] Curry: I forgot it in comparison.
[414.33] Stephen: Speaking of which, did anyone see the new little board with HD zero drop this week?
[421.57] Stephen: For all the heading towards whoop season in the winter.
[424.85] Stephen: Well, HD zero have managed to take what is basically like a last generation happy
[430.53] Stephen: model whoop board.
[431.41] Stephen: I think it's pretty much they work with happy model to produce it.
[435.61] Stephen: So it's it's their four or eleven whoop board.
[437.85] Stephen: One of the ones they used to have on a tiny little triangular board.
[441.09] Stephen: You remember, they kind of cut the FC almost in half on a twenty five by twenty five
[446.29] Stephen: one. And so you only have three corners attached.
[450.25] Stephen: Well, they've done one with the same kind of hardware layout.
[454.85] Stephen: So you've got an F four eleven with the on board
[459.89] Stephen: ESCs and they've managed to fit an HD zero module on an AIO.
[465.45] Stephen: So the single board with HD zero VTX is like their one does 200 milliwatts or whatever.
[473.05] Stephen: They've compromised by using like analog HD.
[478.21] Stephen: You remember how you used to have those?
[480.21] Stephen: You probably remember this from his console collection, right?
[482.85] Stephen: You before everyone went HDMI, you went kind of from a single yellow plug for your video
[489.17] Stephen: to like RGB SCART.
[491.21] Stephen: And then you have like this analog HD where you'd have separate green, red, blue and a
[498.81] Stephen: component. Yeah, you could go 720p or an ATI on that.
[502.81] Stephen: Yeah, yeah. So I think they've they've managed to squish the HD signal only 720p, but
[509.69] Stephen: they've managed to squish it over a single wire and get like a tolerable picture that's
[514.53] Stephen: better than analog.
[517.37] Stephen: And then that allows them to remove some of the circuitry for the big fat MIPI connector.
[523.13] Stephen: So they've just got a single wire connecting the camera to the board.
[525.97] Stephen: And obviously, if you bust that way easier to fix it.
[529.17] Stephen: So seems like a promising little board to have.
[532.77] Stephen: One S only. It might be nice if it was one S two S.
[535.65] Stephen: I think that would be beautiful if it was one S two S.
[537.85] Stephen: But for 65 mil whoops, you can now get like a digital whoop that's under 20 grams dry,
[544.73] Stephen: which is pretty funny.
[546.81] Curry: And we were talking earlier this week about Emacs is open IPC board that looks like it's
[553.37] Curry: going to fit whoops.
[554.65] Curry: Of course, it's not a single board.
[556.05] Curry: You have to shove it on top of an existing flight controller.
[560.13] Curry: But that's that's another little digital solution.
[564.21] Stephen: Yeah, that looked pretty interesting.
[566.05] Stephen: They don't want with like a 30 by 30 board and then they had a 35 by 35.
[571.93] Stephen: I don't know who they went to to get the design specs on these things.
[574.77] Stephen: But someone out there like managed to take the crack pipe out of their mouth long enough to tell
[580.45] Stephen: them they should make a 35 by 35 like mounting post to mounting post.
[585.13] Stephen: I don't know what what was going on there.
[587.57] Stephen: I haven't heard a single frame that takes that.
[589.53] Stephen: Maybe you guys have some old tricopters that have like a 35 by 35 or something.
[594.13] Jack: Like was about the size for the old KK boards.
[600.97] Jack: It might be it was really big.
[604.29] Curry: It's like it's like, oh, is this is this like a flight controller?
[607.37] Curry: Is this like a mini PC?
[608.49] Curry: You weren't quite sure.
[609.85] Stephen: Yeah, I mean, you could probably get pretty much a Raspberry Pi on a board that big these days,
[615.41] Stephen: I thought, which is kind of what you're doing, right?
[619.93] Stephen: Yeah, a little computation thing.
[622.05] Stephen: Yeah, oh, Caroline Tyler mentions and bagzilla as well.
[628.29] Stephen: The HD zero is a bit compromised because they do have any LRS receiver on there.
[632.97] Stephen: But it's one of those SPI receivers.
[634.89] Stephen: So they've reused the last generation happy model target and created a video drama, because everyone
[640.05] Stephen: was like, right, stop doing SPI.
[641.97] Stephen: It's paying the bum.
[643.41] Stephen: Every time you upgrade the LRS, that code has to get ported over to beta flight.
[647.57] Stephen: The beta flight devs have to push it into whatever the current version of beta flight is.
[652.05] Stephen: And so you need to then synchronize your radio with your flight controller firmware instead of
[658.77] Stephen: just having the radio with the same firmware as the receiver.
[662.37] Stephen: And so you are stuck that situation.
[665.29] Stephen: But they they did it because if you use SPI, you can get rid of one of those little ESP chips that
[671.45] Stephen: does the Wi-Fi and there's simply no room on the board.
[674.97] Stephen: I'm pretty sure it's one of these where they say this month, there's no room on the board and like
[680.45] Stephen: two months later, someone will be like, OK, with Jenga, you know, like we just Tetris that F out of
[686.41] Stephen: this, right. And just like Uber Tetris, all the components and managed to fit an ESP in there.
[692.33] Stephen: So, you know, fingers crossed.
[694.85] Curry: That's the weird thing with this.
[695.93] Curry: It's got an SPI LRS, but it's got a spare you are as well.
[700.37] Curry: Why didn't I just add it to the you are?
[701.89] Curry: I don't know.
[703.81] Stephen: Laziness, man.
[705.89] Stephen: Yeah.
[707.05] Koel: Well, Curry, I was curious what because I know you're saying that the analog camera was looks like crap after you
[713.13] Koel: fly a box now and stuff.
[715.73] Koel: What camera are you using?
[717.57] Koel: Because one thing that I've noticed, I've done a bit of testing recently where
[724.01] Koel: my main camera on my like five inch, it was giving me some weird stuff.
[728.01] Koel: So I swapped an older camera on to see like if it was the camera that was causing the problems,
[734.33] Koel: which I think it may have partially been.
[736.69] Koel: And then I put a different camera on and man, the camera really does make a make a difference as far as
[743.81] Koel: like I know it's like analog is the analog.
[745.93] Koel: But I do think the camera makes a big, you know, big factor in the in the actual image quality.
[753.17] Curry: Oh, it does.
[753.93] Curry: This this has got a little ant too, which is a tiny, OK, so this this was definitely worse than the other one,
[760.37] Curry: which is a a something or other with a nice great big lens on it and a bigger sensor, which looked better.
[769.05] Curry: But yeah, it's just there's there's just no doubt about it.
[772.13] Curry: Let me see if I can let's have a quick comparison because it's weird.
[776.53] Koel: Like I like I had the Foxeer Cat 3 on my five inch quad.
[782.29] Koel: And like that thing looks really, really good, whether it's low light or like regular sort of daytime stuff.
[789.13] Koel: But then I put on a Foxeer.
[790.93] Koel: I think it was like a Falkor 2 like wide dynamic range racing style one.
[796.53] Koel: And I was like, I was like, whoa, this looks way worse.
[801.17] Koel: But I'm like, but it's strange because I looked up the marketing stuff and it says it's like twelve hundred TVL
[807.81] Koel: and like the Fox, the cat was like a fourteen or twelve hundred TVL as well.
[813.49] Koel: So I'm like, do TVLs even mean anything?
[816.25] Koel: Because it's just weird.
[818.33] Stephen: So from memory with those analog cams, there's a design decision that the manufacturers make like
[825.25] Stephen: do you take the sensor output and just shove it down the wire as quickly as possible?
[830.25] Stephen: Or do you put it through some interim DSP that might give you a small amount of delay
[836.29] Stephen: but can really improve the picture?
[838.77] Stephen: And so the race cameras just tend to be uglier.
[842.89] Koel: But less latency, right?
[844.49] Koel: Yeah. Yeah.
[846.29] Koel: So, yeah, and then in the end, I slapped on a T-Rex camera and I'm like, I actually test.
[852.97] Koel: That was what I was testing yesterday.
[854.85] Koel: And a little bit of wine there, Steven.
[860.25] Koel: Yes, I tested the T-Rex camera and I was like, whoa, like this is basically digital at this point,
[867.57] Koel: which is like definitely a stretch to say that.
[870.09] Koel: But just so sharp, so much detail.
[875.41] Koel: Good dynamic range.
[877.29] Koel: And oddly enough, like where I was testing this was like the sketchiest place to be testing basically anything.
[885.41] Stephen: Oh, I'm so surprised you didn't lose a quad.
[888.09] Stephen: I looked at that picture and in my mind's eye, I heard a sound and the sound was like,
[893.01] Stephen: dong. Yeah, the sound of a steel beam ringing as something hard hits it.
[898.97] Koel: All right, let me let me share here.
[902.33] Koel: Curry, you were going to show something, though, were you not or?
[905.57] Curry: Yeah, I'm just I was just doing a comparison over my side of things.
[910.97] Stephen: I can show you guys what I'm definitely a second Caroline's vote for the retail series because they are just beautiful.
[919.93] Koel: That's you know, I actually have I have a bag full of analog cameras that my buddy out here gave me when he basically
[929.13] Koel: sold me a bunch of stuff towards my seven inch quad.
[931.97] Koel: And there is a retail cam in there.
[933.97] Koel: I haven't tried it yet, but I will at some point because I keep hearing everyone singing its praises.
[938.73] Stephen: So very pretty colors, very accurate.
[941.41] Stephen: So almost like cinematic colors.
[944.45] Curry: I thought we'd do a quick comparison for Cole's point of view.
[947.73] Curry: This this is from this one.
[950.29] Curry: And you can see about.
[952.33] Curry: Yeah, that's the ant, which is not bad.
[954.77] Curry: That's pretty good.
[956.41] Curry: Not not a bad thing.
[957.69] Curry: And if I compare that to the other one I was using in my seven inch, which I can't remember what it is, but it is better.
[965.73] Curry: That looks like a fine picture.
[970.48] Stephen: What always got me with the ant and indeed pretty much all the Cadex cameras was there was a lot of color noise like color sparkling.
[977.8] Stephen: You'd look at a brown field and it would be like sparkling green and purple and gold instead of being solid brown.
[985.44] Koel: Yeah, I get that with the foxier cams, too.
[987.8] Koel: Like like almost like a like iridescent or like I don't know if that's the right word, but like like
[995.56] Koel: you know, like not natural colors.
[997.48] Koel: Like you see a little bit of that in the field there of Kerwin.
[1000.32] Koel: Here is showing right now.
[1002.32] Curry: It's like a sparkling.
[1005.04] Curry: So I think that's a better picture in terms of colors.
[1007.84] Curry: That seems better.
[1009.16] Curry: It seems sharper.
[1010.16] Curry: The colors seem more true.
[1011.48] Curry: Bit of noise, I feel, from the VTX bit of bit of diagonal.
[1016.12] Curry: And so I was flying along and thinking that was fine.
[1019.36] Curry: And then I used bork snail.
[1021.44] Curry: And this is where it like this is where it changed.
[1024.68] Curry: Now I have to go back and find the right file.
[1026.44] Curry: Hang on two seconds, which is.
[1029.32] Koel: But you know, it's so weird.
[1030.32] Koel: Like in my mind, I almost like the colors of the first one better for some weird reason.
[1035.12] Stephen: Like I thought they're more like Mario, aren't they?
[1037.92] Curry: It's more like they're not really a true color.
[1041.44] Curry: The picture, though, that's the thing.
[1043.12] Curry: That's right.
[1044.64] Koel: Yeah, I have to go back and do a little compare and contrast.
[1052.99] Koel: Yeah, the sky is like super saturated blue.
[1055.35] Koel: The greens are like hypergreen.
[1058.11] Koel: Although, like with the second one you showed me, yeah, it's it's definitely more natural.
[1061.87] Koel: Look, for sure. It's not so hyper saturated.
[1064.71] Koel: And yeah, you know what?
[1066.47] Koel: Yeah, actually, now that I do that comparison, yeah, the second one.
[1068.91] Curry: Oh, that's a little bit.
[1070.99] Curry: Is that on a very behind myself, behind myself there?
[1075.23] Curry: But it's but yeah, this is.
[1078.19] Curry: Yeah, it's going through this.
[1079.47] Curry: I was like, oh, I can see where I'm going and I can see where you can see more like trees
[1083.91] Curry: instead of it just being where I sort of look around things.
[1087.63] Curry: So that that was.
[1088.95] Curry: Yeah, that was the difference.
[1091.03] Stephen: And then if you go to the DGI cameras like the three, you get that plus like
[1096.35] Stephen: pretty decent color science on the image because Cadex is it's OK.
[1100.71] Stephen: But everything's just the hues.
[1102.75] Stephen: Well, I mean, Cole probably used the right words, whereas I can't.
[1105.99] Stephen: The colors are not quite where they should be with Cadex.
[1110.95] Curry: You know, I mean, that to me looks more natural.
[1113.99] Curry: If I look with my eyes, that looks more like it was.
[1117.59] Curry: The first one was like super weird saturation in the sky and stuff.
[1122.75] Stephen: When you're when you're holding still and not spinning around and you don't get as much
[1126.07] Stephen: blocking, it looks pretty nice.
[1128.31] Stephen: The thought is always where it's bleak.
[1131.07] Koel: That looks I mean, you know, it's obviously apples to rocks,
[1137.96] Koel: but like that looks way better than any analog video that I've ever seen.
[1143.16] Koel: But the only thing is, can you do for three in locks now?
[1148.12] Koel: Or does it have to be 16 by nine or?
[1151.68] Stephen: There's they've got different cameras, and I think they started off doing 16 by nine
[1157.24] Stephen: and then the second generation of cameras.
[1159.4] Stephen: They moved them to four, three, I think the V2 cameras and the V3 of four, three,
[1165.88] Jack: I seem to remember. Yeah, yeah.
[1168.92] Curry: Yeah, because it's a 16 by nine camera, but they're 16 by nine goggles as well.
[1172.24] Curry: So it all makes sense to do it.
[1174.68] Jack: Do you know your OSD, is it all in the center like that?
[1181.24] Curry: Yeah, the reason being is because the the Chimera
[1186.84] Curry: is running old beta flight software, which means you haven't got the full range
[1191.72] Curry: of the screen outside, spread it out more.
[1195.0] Curry: And this is this is going back to what I flight says.
[1197.52] Curry: Oh, yeah, you can't you can't use that version of the flight.
[1200.08] Curry: We won't support it.
[1201.48] Curry: And so you end up like, OK, I just have to use this bit of the screen
[1205.08] Curry: instead of all of it.
[1206.72] Koel: But, you know, at the same time, if you're flying 16 by nine
[1210.12] Koel: and you've got such a wide field of wide aspect ratio for flying,
[1214.48] Koel: I think it would be weird to have like everything so far away in the corners
[1217.96] Koel: where you have to like, like, you know what I mean?
[1221.2] Koel: But you're not moving your head.
[1223.8] Jack: It's OK.
[1226.0] Curry: I was just thinking I was just exaggerating.
[1227.92] Curry: But no, they're not quite out.
[1230.72] Stephen: But you've got lots of space
[1231.96] Stephen: so you can have your voltage light and your warnings near the metal.
[1235.68] Stephen: And then you can put stuff in the corners that might be useful,
[1238.88] Stephen: but you don't need to know all the time.
[1241.72] Curry: Yeah, yeah, you can.
[1243.68] Curry: It's kind of like
[1246.4] Curry: if you drive a Tesla, which I do, there's no there's no dials and stuff.
[1250.64] Curry: So you kind of get used to look in the periphery of this big screen
[1253.44] Curry: that's over in the center.
[1254.84] Curry: And it's just the speed is like there on the left hand side.
[1257.72] Curry: And you kind of get used to seeing that.
[1259.44] Curry: And it's again, if you put stuff in certain areas,
[1262.08] Curry: you get used just to having a quick glance.
[1263.92] Curry: And the stuff I generally glance at is like, what is my signal like?
[1268.2] Curry: What is my battery like?
[1269.48] Curry: And the other stuff is just like, oh, you're pretty stuff.
[1271.72] Curry: Nice to have sort of things.
[1274.16] Stephen: You might have a distance home or something with all your GPS stats
[1277.6] Stephen: like over in the corner, like just in case you want to look.
[1280.88] Jack: I mean, that, you know, the Tesla sent a screen thing
[1283.64] Jack: that was like that in the old minis.
[1285.4] Jack: The old minis had center bits in the old Land Rovers.
[1290.04] Jack: They had that all in the middle.
[1293.16] Jack: Keep it simple, chemically used on back.
[1297.36] Jack: Yeah, it's not it's not you know, it's like Apple now.
[1300.96] Jack: You know, they took away the home button.
[1303.64] Jack: Now they're giving you an action button.
[1305.88] Stephen: I think that there's not a button to bring out.
[1309.88] Stephen: It's not a button.
[1311.08] Stephen: You found this new special interface.
[1313.4] Stephen: They're calling it a headphone jack.
[1315.0] Stephen: They can be releasing it sometime in twenty twenty seven.
[1320.24] Koel: You're outnumbered me.
[1322.16] Koel: Yeah. Yeah.
[1324.0] Koel: Well, that was the one thing that when I have tried like friends of mine's
[1327.36] Koel: like DJI Quads, like I especially on the goggle goggle V2 goggles,
[1332.24] Koel: like not not the newest ones, the chunky ones.
[1335.12] Koel: Like if you wanted to see what the voltage was, it's like
[1339.08] Koel: the screens are already so huge, right?
[1341.2] Koel: It's like hiding in the corner on the bottom right.
[1343.68] Koel: And I like I have like I'm flying, I'm flying.
[1346.0] Koel: But if I want to look, I have to actually like
[1349.76] Koel: what's my voltage?
[1351.0] Koel: What's my voltage?
[1351.96] Koel: And that's the one thing I really do appreciate about like four or three.
[1356.16] Koel: And I don't think it matters whether it's analog or digital.
[1358.28] Koel: But for three, it's like everything's kind of in a nice little square.
[1363.12] Stephen: You can lay it out where you don't have to move this stuff right in the middle.
[1365.72] Stephen: You don't have to use the extremities of the screen.
[1367.8] Stephen: It's just so when you have the HD resolution, you've got like
[1372.36] Stephen: because I did I looked at some of the code and like help
[1376.12] Stephen: hammer out some of the standards for this, this HD OSD.
[1378.96] Stephen: So you've got NTSC and PAL.
[1381.88] Stephen: And yeah, NTSC has a higher refresh, but fewer lines.
[1386.72] Stephen: The health has more lines, but runs slow, low frames per second.
[1391.44] Stephen: So you've got like imagine you've got a grid of letters
[1395.6] Stephen: that you can write stuff into.
[1397.04] Stephen: And that's what your OSD is like with one of them.
[1400.88] Stephen: I think you max out at like 30 wide by 18 rows down, 30 columns by 18 rows.
[1409.16] Stephen: And that is your analog box that you can draw stuff into.
[1413.0] Stephen: And you still have that effectively in the center of your screen with HD.
[1416.28] Stephen: But what HD does is adds on a whole bunch of other columns.
[1420.72] Stephen: So you go to like 50 by 25 as opposed to 30 by 18 or something like that.
[1426.92] Stephen: And different systems have actually slightly different resolutions
[1430.84] Stephen: because they've got slightly different screen geometry of the actual displays.
[1435.12] Stephen: Like some of them are 1080 high and some of them are 1200 high
[1440.04] Stephen: and some of their 800 pixels high.
[1442.76] Stephen: So they're all slightly different.
[1444.68] Stephen: But generally you still have the ability to just put everything in the middle
[1448.08] Stephen: if you want to, but you've got a few extra columns either side of the screen.
[1451.84] Stephen: So if you want to, you can just use the dumping ground.
[1455.0] Stephen: And I think it's more useful for INAF pilots than anyone, really,
[1458.96] Stephen: because they've got a ton more OSD elements.
[1461.36] Stephen: If you fly a beta flight, you're like you've got a voltage, you've got warnings.
[1465.08] Stephen: You might have a few GPS stats, but that's really it.
[1468.32] Stephen: The only thing I put up is ESC temperature.
[1471.08] Stephen: Sometimes AIOs where I just flat out don't trust them.
[1474.24] Stephen: I'll put ESC temperature and MCU temperature.
[1477.84] Stephen: So I could be like, is my VTX trying to cook the flight controller?
[1483.0] Stephen: And when I take off, I don't want it to be at 100 degrees and about to brown out.
[1487.28] Stephen: So I just keep an eye on that.
[1489.36] Curry: I think what's interesting in this era of HD OSDs is we can display the information,
[1496.2] Curry: but we haven't got that much customization.
[1501.08] Curry: So you might want to say voltage. Let's have that bigger.
[1504.08] Curry: Open HD has this thing, each OSD thing is a widget which you can move independently
[1510.32] Curry: and then resize however you want.
[1512.28] Curry: And it seems like that would be quite useful to have like voltage is a big thing.
[1515.68] Curry: Let's have a big figure there and it can flash better and we'll notice it.
[1519.32] Curry: As opposed to like, oh, yeah, the GPS stuff.
[1522.24] Curry: I only need to see my location if it falls down.
[1525.12] Curry: So that can be small in the corner and then other things might be big like that.
[1529.92] Stephen: But we'll see what happens.
[1531.64] Stephen: And that's achievable with those systems because on.
[1535.36] Stephen: So like with the original OSD, it was rendered by Betaflight
[1538.6] Stephen: and Betaflight wasn't just giving the information to something.
[1541.52] Stephen: It was actually like, oh, over here, like it was trying to sync battleships.
[1545.64] Stephen: You know, it's like grid position.
[1547.36] Stephen: I'm going to put this here and I'm going to go over and I'm going to put this here.
[1551.12] Stephen: Whereas with like open HD and open IPC, you've got effectively a Mavlink connection.
[1556.92] Stephen: And all the goggles are doing is like pulling in Mavlink telemetry.
[1561.24] Stephen: And then it's, you know, just like able to use effectively web rendering
[1566.08] Stephen: techniques to make it as pretty as it wants on the goals without tying up the flight controller.
[1571.4] Stephen: That's definitely a really smart thing to do, but it is very difficult
[1575.52] Stephen: to persuade manufacturers to do that.
[1577.16] Stephen: There was a big effort a while ago where when the DGI WTF project first kind of launched
[1585.96] Stephen: and people got really excited that potentially this would be an option
[1590.32] Stephen: with a DGI, of course, like you could run your own little web browser rendering process
[1596.24] Stephen: and use something like Lure or something like that to render fancy widgets.
[1600.68] Stephen: But then people quickly realized that if you tried to allocate like an extra half
[1605.76] Stephen: a megabyte of memory on the goggles, the stream would crash or it would like stop
[1610.2] Stephen: recording your DVR or something.
[1612.04] Stephen: So that was quickly like shot down, unfortunately.
[1615.84] Stephen: And walks now could do it if they wanted to.
[1618.48] Stephen: But they're really not doing any software work themselves.
[1623.56] Stephen: They're just kind of implementing something that someone else gave them in terms of software.
[1629.96] Stephen: It's a shame, but open IPC and open HD, you know, fingers crossed.
[1633.96] Jack: Yeah. Is it true IPC doing something with the e-max?
[1638.84] Jack: I can't remember who posted that.
[1640.48] Stephen: Yeah, somebody said there was a big release before.
[1644.0] Stephen: That was the 35 by 35 board jack.
[1646.52] Stephen: So they've got like an AIO with but it's not an AIO and like the HD01,
[1652.04] Stephen: but it's like the Wi-Fi board and the camera, the like streaming coder on a single board.
[1659.04] Stephen: Whereas Curry's one that he had was like two separate boards, right, Curry?
[1664.0] Stephen: Sorry, I shall let you talk about this because you've actually got the hardware.
[1667.8] Koel: I'm just running them out, isn't it?
[1670.56] Curry: Yes, well, I haven't got the e-max hardware yet, it's being sent, apparently.
[1675.24] Curry: But yeah, the original board that was from RunCam had two individual boards in it.
[1682.12] Curry: One was the camera computer bit, which is attached to the camera via the MIPI cable.
[1687.44] Curry: And the on top thing was the Wi-Fi board.
[1690.0] Curry: And then you had a fan, which is about this big on top of it.
[1693.36] Curry: And so just trying to fit that into something.
[1696.4] Curry: But yeah, the new thing that will fit on a WOOP is a complete camera board and Wi-Fi.
[1707.16] Curry: It's only like 100 milliwatts, which in open IPC terms, I've no idea how well that will work or not,
[1713.08] Curry: but it's going to be on a WOOP.
[1714.04] Curry: So it doesn't it doesn't need to be massive, I guess.
[1718.08] Curry: But we'll see. We'll see what happens.
[1721.32] Curry: It seems to be exactly the same Wi-Fi board.
[1724.92] Curry: It's like find a Wi-Fi board, bang it onto some other board, and that's your single unit.
[1731.92] Stephen: Right. So this is this is what e-max are flogging.
[1734.44] Stephen: I'll just do a quick screen shot.
[1735.92] Stephen: I think Jack was throwing it up, but this is the this is what we're talking about.
[1739.72] Stephen: Right. So you can see in front of us, we've got two things that look like JR modules
[1745.24] Stephen: but are actually video receivers on the left.
[1748.2] Stephen: And then we've got two boards they're calling AIOs but are actually a VTX, single board VTX,
[1753.8] Stephen: because a lot of the previous digital VTXs for open IPC involved multiple boards.
[1758.68] Stephen: So of these two, one of them is a WOOP style, which you can see is clearly just a daughterboard
[1764.44] Stephen: for something else they slapped on there, which is a Wi-Fi card on one side.
[1768.12] Stephen: And I guess the chipset that does the MPEG encoding on the other.
[1771.96] Stephen: And the other one is this lunatic size 35 by 35 board,
[1777.08] Stephen: which they appear to have actually extended to reach those insane dimensions
[1782.04] Stephen: when it could actually be smaller.
[1783.88] Stephen: So it, you know, it's like it was a 30 mil board and they thought, no, there's a make a bigger.
[1794.04] Stephen: 100 milliwatt, the 25 by 25.
[1796.68] Stephen: And I think the other one goes up to a watt, right?
[1798.92] Stephen: So you probably don't want to be constrained with 100 milliwatt
[1802.12] Stephen: if you're doing anything serious with this, right?
[1804.52] Jack: Yeah, that's pretty cool.
[1809.4] Curry: It's quite interesting, because as far as we know, if it's the same Wi-Fi module,
[1814.44] Curry: they do run pretty damn hot.
[1816.52] Curry: And that's why they're often seen with a massive fan on top of them.
[1819.8] Curry: So it'd be interesting to see the sort of the cooling aspect of it, or it's like,
[1826.2] Curry: once you power on immediately start flying, so it doesn't burst into flames.
[1830.28] Stephen: Also, like, don't be under the assumption that this is going to be like a super easy solution,
[1835.4] Stephen: because you can see right from the get go, like you've got about a bajillion connector,
[1841.64] Stephen: JST goes into the side of these and breaks out to something that isn't just a simple USB plug,
[1848.84] Stephen: it's an active adapter that has its own ethernet interface on there, as well as a USB-C.
[1854.52] Stephen: So, you know, yo dong, I heard you like Linux, so we put some links on your VTX.
[1862.2] Curry: All these work, no matter what you're doing, you're plugging it into an ethernet port at some point.
[1871.48] Curry: Because otherwise, there's no way of you putting on to Wi-Fi unless you can get to it in the first
[1876.2] Curry: place by ethernet.
[1877.48] Stephen: Because you're using a Wi-Fi card to actually send the video signal,
[1880.68] Stephen: so you can't use the Wi-Fi card to actually connect to it.
[1884.52] Stephen: It's used for something else.
[1885.48] Curry: I mean, someone could write some special software, I suppose, and say, okay,
[1889.88] Curry: we're in setup mode, let's use the Wi-Fi card, let's put up some special little thing where it
[1897.96] Curry: says connect me to your Wi-Fi, and we'll go from there.
[1902.84] Curry: That's several steps way away, because at the moment, it's just like,
[1908.2] Curry: we're just running Linux, would you like to log in and do something?
[1912.04] Curry: Yeah, essentially.
[1913.0] Stephen: And like you are talking straight to like, there's no fancy like helper firmware,
[1917.48] Stephen: like you're talking to the firmware of this board.
[1919.64] Stephen: So you have to get in and connect to the bootloader and use like TFTP to send firmware to it.
[1925.72] Stephen: That's like, that's factory level stuff for a lot of people.
[1929.8] Curry: To be fair, it's got better.
[1931.96] Curry: If you want to update it now, there is this updating command where it will go and get
[1936.44] Curry: new firmware and attempt to install it, which has worked on a board I've used and has failed
[1941.08] Curry: on a different camera I've used.
[1942.52] Curry: They've also got this little Windows application, which is essentially something that you say, oh,
[1950.6] Curry: it's on this address, and this is the password, and it goes and does the SSH and the SCP commands
[1954.84] Curry: on your behalf and sort of brings things back and say, this is it.
[1957.64] Curry: Would you like to change any settings?
[1959.4] Curry: It's like, yes, and then it goes and edits a file and says, done it.
[1962.68] Curry: And hopefully that works.
[1964.04] Curry: But for most people, it's still better than SSHing and using Vi.
[1968.28] Curry: So that's a good move forwards.
[1972.76] Curry: I still saw comments saying, this is far too complicated.
[1975.16] Curry: It's like, previously, you should have seen it before hand.
[1977.72] Koel: Yeah, right.
[1979.32] Koel: What I'm curious about is like, what kind of range can you get on that?
[1983.72] Koel: Because you said it's doing, it's all Wi-Fi based.
[1987.32] Koel: Yeah, right.
[1988.52] Koel: So like, is that, I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, and I don't know a lot about this stuff,
[1993.96] Koel: but is Wi-Fi not like a slightly limited thing?
[1998.84] Stephen: It's using Wi-Fi hardware, but the actual protocol that it's using on that hardware
[2005.0] Stephen: is nothing like you use to check your email or send a chat.
[2009.24] Stephen: Okay, okay.
[2010.12] Curry: It's like, if you just use open Wi-Fi, Open HD has already done like a 100 kilometer flight.
[2018.44] Koel: Okay, okay.
[2019.4] Curry: And then using like, directional antennas, but hooked up into the Wi-Fi port.
[2024.92] Curry: So it's essentially 2.4 with directional antennas and stuff.
[2029.48] Curry: So it's just the terminology then that's, for the layman.
[2034.04] Stephen: It's like, what's the cheapest way we can get hold of a radio?
[2036.76] Stephen: Well, we buy a Wi-Fi adapter and then we hack it to do something it was never meant to.
[2041.24] Koel: Gotcha.
[2041.8] Koel: Okay, okay.
[2042.28] Koel: Because I just think I'm like, Wi-Fi, I'm like, if I go like, you know,
[2045.64] Koel: a few steps outside of my place, I'm not getting Wi-Fi anymore.
[2048.44] Koel: But it's a different, it's not what I'm thinking that it is.
[2052.12] Koel: Okay.
[2052.68] Stephen: Yeah, yeah.
[2053.64] Stephen: It's more like this dumb video streamer that just keeps blasting data.
[2057.4] Stephen: It doesn't check whether you've received it.
[2059.16] Stephen: It's just going to keep like, throwing data at you.
[2062.2] Stephen: And you've got a receiver that's intelligent enough that it can get you some picture,
[2067.24] Stephen: even when most of that data is being trashed.
[2069.4] Stephen: So you get a little bit of interruption here and there, but you'll be able to see what you're.
[2073.72] Stephen: That's cool.
[2074.28] Koel: No, I mean, I've seen some examples of it being used.
[2077.24] Koel: And like, it looks pretty damn good, man.
[2079.4] Koel: Like it's, it looks promising.
[2084.36] Koel: I mean, I'm still button analog boy.
[2088.28] Koel: Well, this is pretty cool.
[2089.48] Stephen: That's the big win, right?
[2091.24] Stephen: A lot of this stuff, you know, you're used to seeing kind of, I think the O3 systems,
[2096.84] Stephen: about 150 local currency units over here in the UK and sort of 200 in the US.
[2103.8] Stephen: And probably a nudge more over in Canada.
[2107.08] Stephen: These transmitters with a camera in that's going for 65.
[2112.76] Koel: That's like a hundred bucks for a full system.
[2114.76] Stephen: So yeah, a hundred bucks.
[2116.2] Stephen: And then you've got something you can kind of slap on.
[2119.16] Stephen: Instead of selling the full goggle system,
[2121.0] Stephen: you've got something that you can kind of plug into whatever's got an HDMI connection on it.
[2125.64] Koel: That's okay.
[2126.2] Koel: So that's what the receiver, right?
[2128.68] Stephen: Yeah, it looks like a JR module.
[2130.52] Stephen: This is the weird thing.
[2131.56] Stephen: They've got this, it looks like a JR module.
[2134.04] Stephen: It's got like an XT30 to power it and a bunch of antennas stuck out the side.
[2137.96] Stephen: But this guy is the receiver.
[2141.32] Stephen: And I guess, no, this doesn't even have HDMI.
[2143.96] Stephen: So I guess you're going to have to plug this into a laptop curry
[2147.24] Stephen: or into a tablet like you've got with yours.
[2150.04] Curry: Yeah, again, I didn't look in detail on these,
[2152.36] Curry: but I presume they are doing exactly the same thing as Runcam did,
[2156.36] Curry: which is basically you're using a USB-C into an Android device of some sort,
[2161.8] Curry: and that's providing your picture.
[2163.16] Curry: And then what you could do is use something like a USB-C hub to take HDMI out
[2169.56] Curry: and go into your goggles that way.
[2171.48] Curry: And I can't imagine people would be flying off that.
[2175.08] Curry: So yeah, the killer thing at the moment would be some sort of better goggle unit, I feel.
[2181.72] Curry: Because at the moment, it's kind of like a bit of a faff.
[2184.36] Curry: And I know the first person that comes out with their own goggles,
[2187.88] Curry: but nobody so far has said, yes, we're definitely working on a standalone
[2192.44] Curry: unit that's going to do this.
[2194.12] Stephen: But the first person that comes out with something like Walkstyle HD Zero did,
[2198.52] Stephen: that you put on the front of your goggles, it's got one of those DC jacks and an HDMI plug
[2203.64] Stephen: and comes with like a 10 centimeter long HDMI cable to plug into your fat shocks.
[2209.24] Stephen: They're going to be onto a winner.
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[2236.2] Koel: Well, I guess I got to, it's like one step at a time, right?
[2238.92] Koel: It's like they're gonna, they got to get at least this stuff sorted out before they,
[2243.64] Koel: I mean, then again, I mean, in this world, it's like we're the FPV world.
[2248.36] Koel: So you'd think it would be sort of favorable to have a set of goggles already, I guess.
[2253.4] Koel: But, you know, this is an open IPC.
[2255.48] Koel: This is an open world.
[2257.24] Stephen: This is really for people to take long range wings as well.
[2259.96] Stephen: Like the default way of drawing the OSD is via MavLink.
[2265.24] Stephen: So if you have flying quads, you probably never even touched MavLink.
[2269.72] Stephen: It's just gibberish, right?
[2271.08] Stephen: This is stuff that doesn't work on 4.5.
[2273.64] Curry: Nothing comes out.
[2275.32] Stephen: It's used for long range autonomous.
[2277.56] Stephen: Like if you've got an autopilot system and you want it to like fly a grid pattern over something
[2283.72] Stephen: so you can do aerial photography of the land underneath, you're going to be running MavLink.
[2288.84] Stephen: But otherwise, yeah, you probably don't know it.
[2292.44] Stephen: But this is relying on MavLink to do all of the OSD.
[2295.4] Stephen: And there's a system that does display port like MSP based OSD,
[2300.28] Stephen: but it's like alpha stage right now.
[2302.68] Stephen: And seems to be rendering it as like a burned in subtitles type format.
[2309.72] Stephen: And yeah, it renders on the camera.
[2313.8] Curry: Yeah, yeah.
[2314.76] Curry: So the camera is using its CPU to render that.
[2318.04] Curry: And then that's getting transferred through the Wi-Fi link.
[2321.48] Curry: So if it corrupts, then your OSD corrupts at the same point as well,
[2325.96] Curry: which is going to look interesting.
[2327.64] Stephen: I did see there's a UDP sender for that.
[2330.44] Stephen: So there's a process where it looks like you can run UDP and spit all of that OSD updates
[2339.48] Stephen: over the Wi-Fi link separately from the video instead of burning it in.
[2343.08] Stephen: But yeah, it looks really not ready for consumption.
[2347.8] Stephen: And indeed, if you go looking for the docs still on this, you're like,
[2350.36] Stephen: oh, I've got open IBC, I'll go to the open IBC website, search for FPV.
[2355.4] Stephen: And there's a repo that someone updated six months ago, and basically nothing else.
[2360.44] Stephen: So I'm going to stick with what I was saying before when they came on,
[2365.32] Stephen: where I thought, you know, this is a lovely idea,
[2368.04] Stephen: but we need to check back in two or three years.
[2370.76] Curry: And I think it's definitely an enthusiast level type thing.
[2375.24] Curry: I think it's interesting that it's been picked up by two manufacturers so far.
[2378.84] Curry: I think that means a lot.
[2379.96] Curry: It's a lot of things happening.
[2381.24] Curry: Some things happen.
[2384.84] Jack: You know, Curry, you said,
[2387.56] Jack: well, I think Stephen said it like you plug it in directly to like an Android device,
[2393.0] Jack: but then you can break out to then
[2397.8] Jack: use a hub to give you HDMI.
[2402.36] Jack: Surely all those steps then add more and more latency.
[2407.24] Jack: They do seem to, yeah.
[2408.52] Curry: When I was doing it on my crappy Android tablet,
[2412.44] Curry: it added about 10 or 20 milliseconds,
[2416.68] Curry: just on the milliseconds on the Android that measures the decode.
[2421.24] Curry: And mine's not particularly fast.
[2422.68] Curry: It's like it's 50 seconds to decode this frame.
[2425.4] Curry: If you plug the hub in, it's like another 10 seconds to 10 milliseconds to decode the frame.
[2430.52] Curry: So that adds something to it.
[2431.96] Curry: I don't know if there's better solutions there or not.
[2437.4] Curry: It's going to be the case of like you need a good performing Android device.
[2442.04] Curry: To do it better.
[2443.4] Curry: And then like people are talking about like this takes 10 milliseconds to decode the frame.
[2448.04] Curry: Therefore, if you plug it into something else, it's better.
[2450.44] Curry: But if you just drop the Android tablet altogether and use something like the
[2454.28] Curry: the Radaxa Free W, I think that's looking at like 50, 60 milliseconds sort of glass to glass,
[2463.56] Curry: is what I understand.
[2464.44] Curry: I haven't got one, but that's what I'm told.
[2467.16] Curry: So that is the best solution.
[2468.28] Curry: But as soon as you say get one of these, that's down to like,
[2471.24] Curry: okay, welcome to Linux 101.
[2473.4] Curry: Here's how we're going to start off by configuring the device.
[2476.28] Curry: So that's not particularly consumer friendly.
[2479.64] Stephen: Yeah, you need someone to put one of them in a plastic case with a like,
[2483.56] Stephen: you know, two to six power jack in the side.
[2486.2] Curry: It will make sure you get power regulation and flog it to the punters and they'll buy it.
[2491.0] Curry: Yeah.
[2491.4] Curry: And that is small enough to just sort of sit on top of your goggles
[2494.92] Curry: and be powered and have like a little HDMI coming out.
[2498.6] Stephen: Yeah, absolutely.
[2499.4] Stephen: You can, you know, unscrew the fan shroud and put a fan shroud with a bracket on there
[2503.64] Stephen: instead of it and then bolt it on the front just like the XD zero and walks now stuff
[2507.48] Stephen: and you're off to the races.
[2509.96] Jack: Mr.
[2510.36] Stephen: So Andy's got a comment here.
[2512.68] Stephen: Andy RC.
[2513.48] Stephen: Hello, Andy.
[2514.12] Stephen: Hope you're doing well.
[2515.64] Stephen: Come on the show.
[2516.44] Jack: Don't read his questions out.
[2518.36] Jack: Because he's not going to come on, come on the show.
[2521.88] Curry: He's not going to come and fiddle with you.
[2523.64] Curry: You should do, but he's not going to.
[2526.36] Stephen: It's because you're going to resend the lid.
[2528.12] Stephen: Andy RC says that's what I'm struggling to understand.
[2531.72] Stephen: EMAX and run run cam buying into it.
[2534.84] Stephen: Is it because drones tech is so stale at the moment and this is something new?
[2539.08] Stephen: And that's a good point because we've been sitting here with kind of a stable state of
[2545.32] Stephen: technology for a while now.
[2546.76] Stephen: And I don't think anyone really wanted DJI to eat everyone else's lunch and then for
[2551.72] Stephen: Cadex to like try and copy DJI.
[2554.44] Stephen: And no, that's, that's pretty much it.
[2558.28] Stephen: No one asked for that.
[2560.12] Stephen: And, and it's nice that there is some competition.
[2562.92] Stephen: So yeah, I, I think this is the only way that DJI can be dethroned that there needs to be a
[2570.2] Stephen: ton of smaller players and you need to start cranking that handle as fast as possible.
[2575.64] Stephen: You know, start out with something that's sketchy, isn't quite right,
[2578.92] Stephen: but they release a new version every two or three months.
[2582.36] Stephen: And like two years later, it's pretty polished.
[2585.08] Stephen: You know, that's what happened with flight controllers with ESCs.
[2589.8] Curry: For run cam, it was, uh, they had an experiment and they didn't have to sort of develop much
[2595.64] Curry: themselves.
[2596.6] Curry: They bought the existing cameras that were being used by people that were using open IPC,
[2602.2] Curry: put it together on a board, pre-flashed it and said, who wants to buy it?
[2606.6] Curry: And then they sold out of that first batch and they're like, oh, okay,
[2609.16] Curry: that worked pretty well.
[2610.12] Curry: We didn't really have to do much with it.
[2612.12] Curry: They didn't develop their own boards or anything.
[2614.6] Curry: They're just like, oh, we just sort of packaged these things up that we bought in cheap,
[2618.12] Curry: sold them, made some money and we gauged that there's some interest in it.
[2622.04] Curry: So it's kind of like, I think they're, they're both testing the water
[2626.76] Curry: and like making sure they don't miss out on something if it suddenly blows up.
[2632.68] Stephen: I'm interested at Emacs's approach here, because the packaging has just pushed things
[2639.4] Stephen: a little bit further than we saw from run cam.
[2642.36] Stephen: The run cam system clearly intended to go in a wing because the mounting pattern just
[2646.52] Stephen: didn't really match a quad.
[2648.44] Stephen: And I think it only had mounting posts on one side of the board.
[2651.72] Stephen: So if that has any sort of bump on a quad, you snap the circuit board, right?
[2660.49] Curry: I can't remember.
[2661.37] Curry: I'm going to put mine on a quad once I get there, but I might have to raise it up.
[2664.73] Stephen: I think it was certainly easier in a way.
[2667.29] Curry: Yeah, it was.
[2669.13] Stephen: Yeah, they put two mounting posts in, I think, on one side.
[2674.81] Stephen: And then one, the board at the bottom was longer than the one on the top.
[2678.73] Stephen: And so the mounting post didn't work at the other end of the board from what I remember.
[2683.21] Curry: Yes, that's the top mount.
[2684.49] Curry: It looks nice, which is weird.
[2685.77] Curry: Yeah, it certainly seems more developed, the Emacs one, because it's like they're still using
[2693.13] Curry: the same Wi-Fi board, but it's like they've done something different with the camera board.
[2698.33] Stephen: Yeah, better.
[2699.53] Stephen: Just a bit of packaging.
[2700.81] Stephen: And they probably had a bit more time to mess around with 3D printers
[2704.41] Stephen: and sending off a whole load of blank PCBs to some way to get them churned out,
[2710.01] Stephen: rather than using what was on the market already.
[2712.09] Stephen: So they didn't get the jump in the time.
[2713.69] Stephen: But what they have got is something that just looks a bit more cleanly put together.
[2722.62] Stephen: It's going to be interesting.
[2723.9] Stephen: Time will tell.
[2724.62] Koel: So I was actually, this is a total topic change here, and I don't mean to interject,
[2730.86] Koel: but have we talked about the new GoPros at all?
[2733.9] Koel: Have you guys looked at the new GoPros?
[2736.14] Stephen: I've got one item on the ceiling years before that, if that's OK.
[2740.38] Koel: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[2741.18] Koel: Well, I guess, should I show my little flight-ness before we get into that?
[2746.94] Koel: Or should I show that?
[2747.5] Koel: Yeah, if you're not done for it.
[2748.46] Stephen: Yeah, you would be able to put yours right away, mate.
[2751.1] Koel: Yeah, yeah.
[2751.42] Koel: So like we were saying before, I went and I was testing a new camera, basically.
[2758.54] Koel: Because I threw the T-Rex into my Apex.
[2764.54] Koel: And I literally was just like, OK, well, I'm going to drive around until I find a little spot.
[2770.38] Koel: And I was just on my way to my house, and I just went through a neighborhood.
[2773.82] Koel: And I found this spot, and I was like, hmm, this looks like an interesting place to
[2781.34] Koel: test, although the problem is that it's a bridge.
[2784.14] Koel: And like most bridges, it is over water.
[2787.82] Koel: So not exactly the most favorable place to be doing any kind of testing.
[2793.26] Koel: But I was testing my camera and testing my luck at the same time.
[2798.78] Stephen: Clench, clench on.
[2801.42] Koel: Yeah, so I'm like, OK.
[2804.86] Koel: Oh, that looks pretty dark.
[2807.5] Koel: Yeah, it was really bright in the morning.
[2809.1] Koel: So like the sun was kind of like right in my face there.
[2812.38] Koel: But yeah, I just basically stood on this bridge and kind of see me right there in the gray hoodie.
[2820.38] Koel: And I'm just like, OK.
[2825.42] Koel: At first, I thought I was like, OK, maybe I'll power loop the bridge
[2827.82] Koel: because it has these cool little like, you know, the cross beams and stuff.
[2833.42] Koel: But honestly, it was like that was way too sketchy.
[2837.26] Koel: So then I was like, I kind of got bored of doing that.
[2839.26] Koel: And then eventually I was like, wait, let me let me fast forward to it.
[2844.3] Koel: Eventually, I kind of like had the guts to like not just be over top of this little bridge area.
[2850.78] Koel: So I ended up going over the water.
[2854.54] Koel: And this is the person I've ever actually really flown over water like this ever
[2858.22] Koel: because it's like pretty scary.
[2860.7] Koel: But yeah, I just was like, screw it, man.
[2865.34] Koel: I'm going to freestyle this bridge now.
[2867.42] Koel: And I mean, everywhere is water, technically.
[2870.14] Koel: I mean, everywhere is lava, right?
[2871.66] Koel: So yeah, yeah.
[2872.94] Stephen: It's not like there's any floor that you want to bounce off, is there?
[2876.46] Koel: No. And I mean, I trust I trust my quad.
[2880.06] Koel: I trust my crossfire.
[2881.5] Koel: And yeah, generally, it's, you know, pretty trustworthy quad.
[2886.7] Koel: The only thing was it was it like this spot.
[2889.82] Koel: Yeah, it really was.
[2891.1] Koel: Although I had to wait a second because there was a lot of like
[2894.62] Koel: early morning walkers out and about.
[2896.94] Koel: And I was like, OK, people just get off the bridge for a second.
[2902.38] Koel: OK, OK, there's nobody here.
[2903.74] Koel: All right. Now I can actually like send it.
[2907.74] Koel: But yeah, part of me is like I would love to go back there and like fly there again
[2912.14] Koel: and maybe try to Maddie flip it.
[2913.58] Koel: But I don't know if I want to I don't know if I want to do that.
[2918.14] Koel: I'm like, it's a little scary.
[2920.7] Koel: Like it's not the biggest bridge.
[2923.02] Koel: It's like it can only like you mean you see me there.
[2925.82] Koel: But yeah, it's.
[2928.62] Stephen: I suppose you can always like tie an empty bottle to it if you're super worried.
[2934.22] Koel: Yeah. And then I guess I'd have to.
[2935.34] Koel: Well, it's not that deep right there.
[2937.5] Koel: Actually, you can see like some rocks just kind of like sitting underneath it.
[2940.14] Koel: But I don't know, man, like I actually was thinking about doing for the Maddie
[2943.42] Koel: flip there and then I like last second.
[2945.02] Koel: I kind of like chicken.
[2946.3] Stephen: It's not super high for Maddie Flip, is it?
[2950.06] Koel: You know, it's not like, yeah, it's.
[2955.98] Koel: It, you know, but, you know, I had fun and and I and my father came home.
[2960.86] Koel: So that's kind of like all that mattered.
[2963.18] Curry: What's were harmed?
[2967.74] Koel: Good. But you said you had some fun, fun topics, Steven.
[2973.42] Stephen: Oh, yeah, we have we have we have some silly topics specifically.
[2977.34] Stephen: So we've had some very serious VTX news, but not all innovation is serious.
[2982.78] Stephen: And some of it, frankly, just flouts any attempt at serious discussion.
[2987.9] Stephen: And that's the next topic where you might think, God, this is just a radio.
[2992.62] Stephen: It's a perfectly sensible radio.
[2994.14] Stephen: Someone's released a TX-16 clone.
[2996.62] Stephen: They do this about every three weeks.
[3001.82] Stephen: Hello radio.
[3003.18] Stephen: If we go down to the features, like what makes this different?
[3006.38] Stephen: No, there's another AI voice control.
[3009.26] Stephen: Yeah. Well, OK, so take that with a pinch of salt.
[3011.98] Stephen: There's nothing AI about it, but what they've got is voice recognition.
[3016.22] Stephen: Right. So you can say like model page system page and you can say like flaps up flaps down.
[3023.82] Stephen: But you have to press a button to engage it first.
[3027.5] Stephen: So debatable how useful it is.
[3030.62] Stephen: But they've also got gyros.
[3033.82] Stephen: This I think they're calling physical control.
[3036.86] Stephen: But what it is is like a gyro like you have on PlayStation.
[3040.7] Jack: Surely physical control would be actually moving the sticks.
[3045.66] Jack: Yeah, that's physical fingers.
[3047.66] Stephen: And what's more, NDRC would love this.
[3050.06] Stephen: I'm sure it supports Bluetooth modules for head trackers.
[3055.5] Stephen: They managed to include the gyros and the voice recognition,
[3059.18] Stephen: but it says supports them evidently did not actually include the Bluetooth module,
[3063.82] Stephen: which is a bit of an insult for like 70 cents more, I'm sure.
[3070.22] Stephen: Anyway, they actually include the head tracker options in the firmware.
[3073.66] Stephen: They make a point of that.
[3075.42] Stephen: But yeah, just a bit of an odd radio.
[3078.06] Stephen: So head tracking function, switch aircraft, head pursuit mode.
[3081.98] Stephen: Initially, I thought that they were suggesting this head tracking function
[3085.9] Stephen: was actually realized via the gyros and that you were somehow intended to take the radio
[3094.7] Stephen: and strap it to your head.
[3097.1] Stephen: But on a personal inspection, they've simply just updated the firmware,
[3102.06] Stephen: which is more sensible perhaps.
[3103.5] Curry: Yeah, does that mean there's a special
[3106.62] Curry: RTX fork, which has these new weird functions in it?
[3111.02] Stephen: It was always available, Kerry.
[3113.98] Stephen: Yeah, it's just a firmware option.
[3115.58] Stephen: So you can build it with those options, but no one had built it with those options.
[3120.54] Curry: So the gyros, you can just say, I want my tilt gyro as channel six or whatever.
[3127.42] Stephen: It's probably just spitting out S bus or something,
[3130.3] Stephen: and then they recognize that same as they would have trained for, I'm guessing.
[3135.02] Curry: I would like to see someone flying using those,
[3137.34] Curry: and then knock the radio out of their hands just to see what happens.
[3141.98] Stephen: Super fun.
[3143.34] Stephen: But also, if you remember when the Wii came out for those old people who might remember Wii's
[3148.22] Stephen: and how it was really, really good fun, and you played it with your mates after a few beers,
[3152.3] Stephen: and you thought, this is great.
[3153.18] Stephen: And then you tried to play it sober, and you're like,
[3155.18] Stephen: it feels like I still had a few beers.
[3156.94] Stephen: What's going on?
[3157.9] Stephen: Why is this so hard to control?
[3161.02] Curry: Motion control is great.
[3163.18] Curry: All games.
[3167.26] Koel: Yeah, Dorothy uses motion control in Mario Kart on Wii,
[3172.22] Koel: or not on Wii, on Switch.
[3174.54] Koel: Yeah, I'm like, what are you doing?
[3176.94] Koel: You have joysticks.
[3180.38] Curry: Where do you think Multi-Wii came from, and then Multi-Wii became?
[3183.98] Curry: Yep.
[3184.54] Curry: It's all coming back.
[3185.66] Curry: Face flight, and clean flight, and be the flight, et cetera.
[3189.58] Koel: Yeah, we should just basically give up on sticks altogether and just go strictly...
[3197.58] Jack: Are they advertising it as running off Duracell batteries?
[3202.3] Jack: I just saw.
[3203.5] Stephen: I mean, this is really some on-point marketing.
[3206.78] Stephen: There are only two of them as well.
[3208.38] Stephen: So it's going to run off a little hair under three volts, maybe.
[3213.9] Stephen: Wow, that's pretty good for a big color screen like that.
[3218.22] Koel: Can you hard-swap those while you're there to play it?
[3223.26] Stephen: I mean, this is a master's department issue, isn't it?
[3225.42] Stephen: Let's be honest.
[3226.38] Stephen: The engineers would not have done this.
[3227.82] Stephen: This is clearly just a regular TX16S,
[3230.38] Stephen: and you can see the balance port for a 2S lipo in there.
[3235.1] Curry: If only they had the screen which could turn into the 5.8 receiver as well,
[3239.02] Stephen: they would have done it a whole lot, wouldn't they?
[3241.26] Stephen: Oh, yeah.
[3242.06] Stephen: If those become standard, that would be a lot of fun.
[3244.78] Stephen: I mean, that's something you should really get with Overnight PC, right?
[3249.42] Stephen: Have a click-in module that can go into a radio for Overnight PC,
[3253.1] Stephen: because the people who fly it are probably going to be doing long-range,
[3255.82] Stephen: and they could use them all like that.
[3258.06] Stephen: That'd be quite good fun.
[3259.34] Curry: But then you need a high-res.
[3262.22] Curry: Going on deck.
[3263.42] Curry: Check your deck.
[3264.54] Jack: Did anyone notice on the original render
[3267.98] Jack: that they photoshopped the right stick?
[3272.94] Jack: Did it go right to the top?
[3273.74] Curry: Oh, yeah.
[3275.1] Curry: Let's just cut and paste what the left stick looks like.
[3278.78] Curry: Let's see.
[3279.26] Curry: Let's see.
[3282.44] Curry: Is it?
[3285.24] Koel: Can you see the difference?
[3287.64] Koel: Yeah.
[3288.68] Koel: Wait, wait, wait.
[3289.96] Koel: Oh, but you can see the silver screws on the right-hand side, though.
[3294.68] Stephen: It looks different on this one.
[3296.04] Stephen: Maybe I'm looking at the wrong picture.
[3299.56] Koel: That's fine.
[3301.08] Koel: Wait, I like how they're showing a Mavic Pro,
[3303.08] Koel: as it's controlling a Mavic Pro.
[3305.24] Stephen: That one, I can see a screw on one side and not the other.
[3308.44] Stephen: Yeah.
[3309.08] Stephen: I mean, it's not difficult to get a picture of these.
[3311.0] Stephen: They just take a copy of a radio, a master radio,
[3314.52] Stephen: and then paste their logo on the top of it, and they're done.
[3317.88] Stephen: So that's a more challenging model for you.
[3324.58] Curry: And why have it been controlling a Mavic Pro?
[3327.06] Curry: Hello, radio.
[3328.18] Curry: Is that not the best night for radio ever?
[3331.06] Koel: It's like, you get up in the morning,
[3333.54] Koel: you know, you kiss your girlfriend or your wife,
[3336.82] Koel: and then you go into your little hobby room and you go,
[3339.54] Koel: hello, radio.
[3340.82] Curry: And then, you know, it really goes activating fast.
[3343.94] Stephen: I'm sorry.
[3344.42] Stephen: I can't do that, Dave.
[3345.86] Stephen: That is funny because there's a configurable protection current.
[3353.66] Stephen: I'm not sure if this is normal,
[3355.1] Stephen: but they actually introduced current protection
[3357.5] Stephen: for the external module.
[3358.62] Stephen: I haven't seen that before.
[3360.94] Koel: That's interesting.
[3362.3] Koel: I mean, that's probably smart.
[3365.1] Stephen: Yeah.
[3365.82] Stephen: And these days when you're seeing people with, like,
[3368.14] Stephen: two watt modules becoming the norm,
[3370.38] Stephen: it'll be easier to have that.
[3372.54] Koel: Yep.
[3373.66] Stephen: Yeah, just silly news.
[3375.9] Stephen: So anyway, if you're in the market for a cheap TX16 clone,
[3381.5] Stephen: they do a Max one,
[3382.7] Stephen: which has probably the exact RadioMaster gimbals
[3385.98] Stephen: that they've just ducked into it.
[3387.82] Stephen: It looks just like a RadioMaster, effectively.
[3389.9] Stephen: It's kind of like the E-Max version,
[3391.42] Stephen: where they just released their own version of the TX16
[3394.3] Stephen: that was 10 quid cheaper and exactly the same.
[3398.06] Koel: Yeah.
[3398.38] Koel: Well, in other news, we have the new Hero 5 session,
[3403.5] Koel: which is actually only 10 grams heavier than a Hero 5 session,
[3409.98] Koel: but it has a screen, which is kind of interesting.
[3414.14] Curry: So it's called the Hero 5 session,
[3417.26] Curry: but what is it, though?
[3419.02] Curry: This is just a Hero.
[3420.14] Curry: This is a GoPro Hero.
[3422.14] Curry: Like, we started over again.
[3423.42] Stephen: We started over again.
[3424.78] Stephen: It's the size of a normal GoPro, though, isn't it?
[3426.7] Stephen: It's not session-sized camera.
[3428.3] Curry: Yeah, session-sized camera didn't have the stuff.
[3430.3] Stephen: It just had, like, the screen in a little box.
[3432.06] Stephen: What you need is a screen.
[3433.5] Stephen: Like, what you need is a screen on the back of a camera.
[3436.06] Koel: Well, that's what I was saying,
[3437.26] Koel: because I really like my Hero 13 Mini,
[3440.38] Koel: but the Hero 13 Mini is almost double the weight of this.
[3446.14] Koel: And you don't need a screen, man.
[3447.98] Koel: Like, if you really, really want a screen,
[3450.86] Koel: you can hook it up to your phone,
[3454.62] Koel: make sure that your white balance is right,
[3456.54] Koel: and then you're good.
[3457.26] Koel: You just have your, like,
[3458.54] Koel: I rarely change my settings on my GoPro.
[3460.7] Koel: Like, I have some, like, no good settings on the back of those.
[3463.74] Stephen: Like, if you want to see whether the image is in focus,
[3465.98] Stephen: or whether the lens is clean and everything,
[3468.06] Stephen: like, the screen on the back is good enough.
[3470.54] Koel: It saves you from having to use the app
[3472.94] Koel: to go in and adjust settings,
[3474.38] Koel: which, honestly, it takes an extra,
[3477.9] Koel: maybe, minute or so to do with the app.
[3480.22] Stephen: Like, put, like, a black and white LCD in there,
[3482.3] Stephen: just for settings.
[3483.66] Stephen: And, yeah, a GoPro would never do black and white, though.
[3486.7] Curry: Question.
[3487.42] Curry: Is the front of this camera a heat sink,
[3489.18] Curry: or is that just a design thing?
[3490.78] Curry: Is that how they're stocking them over heating now?
[3492.86] Curry: They're making the extra heat sink.
[3494.86] Stephen: No, that's the stereo speakers, mate.
[3497.18] Jack: No, didn't you know it's their new recycling program?
[3503.18] Jack: They're reusing the griddle part of a George Foreman.
[3508.3] Koel: Yeah, yeah.
[3509.74] Koel: But it's 4K and tiny.
[3514.14] Curry: I don't care.
[3514.62] Curry: I'm not buying another GoPro ever again.
[3516.62] Curry: I'm done with them.
[3518.3] Stephen: Yeah.
[3519.02] Stephen: It's one of the largest 4K cameras that's come out.
[3521.5] Stephen: There's been a Firefly and a new Thumb 4K
[3524.38] Stephen: that are both much cheaper and much lighter than this.
[3527.42] Koel: Well, the Action 5, as well, just came out.
[3531.1] Koel: But the weird thing about this one is it's only 200 bucks.
[3534.86] Koel: It's only 10 grams heavier than the original Hero 5 Session.
[3539.02] Koel: But it's actually a lot more limited as far as,
[3543.58] Koel: basically, the different specs you have for video.
[3549.18] Koel: Where are they now?
[3551.18] Koel: Doesn't tell me.
[3551.74] Curry: Do you know when they say, just a very quick one,
[3555.42] Curry: do you know when they say it's waterproof down to whatever, 10 meters?
[3559.5] Curry: Yeah.
[3559.82] Curry: Do you know if you read the small print, they say this is not guaranteed.
[3566.54] Koel: Yeah, they have to say.
[3568.06] Koel: They always have to put the asterisk, right?
[3569.58] Koel: Like, this is an American company.
[3572.46] Curry: I promise.
[3572.94] Curry: It's not lately funded or not.
[3575.18] Curry: It's like, no, it's not.
[3577.02] Curry: Totally isn't.
[3577.58] Curry: That seal will go.
[3580.3] Koel: Yeah.
[3582.46] Koel: Like, for me, 86-gram GoPro, that's really nice.
[3588.38] Koel: Because, yeah, the Hero 11 Mini is heavy.
[3591.5] Koel: But the Hero 11 Mini also has a lot more resolutions and frame rates.
[3597.98] Koel: And just options in general.
[3602.38] Koel: I don't think I could see myself buying this one,
[3604.86] Koel: just because I do like the Hero 11 Mini.
[3607.26] Koel: But if you want something that's light and cheap,
[3614.7] Koel: and probably relatively good, it's a GoPro.
[3618.22] Koel: I mean, it should be good.
[3619.74] Stephen: If you put it on a quad, would it give as good a footage
[3622.86] Stephen: as the premium stuff if you just leave it at default
[3625.34] Stephen: so you're not trying to tweak, tweak, tweak?
[3628.46] Koel: See, that's the thing.
[3629.18] Koel: I don't have the answer on that one,
[3631.18] Koel: because I never just leave stuff on default.
[3635.42] Koel: But I guess most people in the hobby probably do.
[3639.82] Koel: But I don't know.
[3641.74] Koel: For me, if it had more...
[3645.5] Koel: If it had all the same frame rates and resolutions
[3647.5] Koel: as, say, the Hero 11 Mini,
[3649.5] Koel: I would literally buy that in a second
[3651.1] Koel: just because of the weight savings.
[3652.62] Koel: Even if it has a screen on the back.
[3654.54] Koel: Get a 3D print that protects the back.
[3657.1] Koel: You're good. Put a screen protector on.
[3658.3] Stephen: You know, it's not officially tiered.
[3660.3] Stephen: The hardware in there is probably identical.
[3662.22] Stephen: They've just made it cheaper.
[3663.9] Stephen: Therefore, they've artificially limited
[3666.06] Stephen: the features that are available
[3667.74] Stephen: to create a cheaper model in their range.
[3672.46] Stephen: It's unlikely that GoPros have more than one chipset
[3675.58] Stephen: in play at any one time,
[3676.86] Stephen: because they're actually not that big a company.
[3679.66] Stephen: I think there was a stats out that GoPros,
[3681.82] Stephen: like 200 or 250 people, they're a pretty small company.
[3687.98] Koel: So, Hero 2024.
[3689.9] Koel: I want to see if it tells me the difference.
[3696.73] Koel: But they also came out with the new one
[3700.17] Koel: with the 13 and whatnot.
[3702.33] Koel: There's all these new different lenses
[3704.17] Koel: you can put on it now, too.
[3705.37] Koel: They have anamorphic lens, a macro lens,
[3708.41] Koel: and a polar or ultra-wide angle.
[3714.97] Koel: And they're making it a lot more,
[3717.93] Koel: I guess, what's the word?
[3721.77] Koel: Modular or customizable, I guess.
[3723.61] Stephen: Is that relevant for our hobby,
[3725.37] Stephen: where people are not typically putting,
[3727.13] Stephen: like if someone is in the business
[3728.49] Stephen: putting expensive gloves on the front of a camera,
[3730.65] Stephen: they're going to be up there flying
[3732.25] Stephen: like a proper camera and not go, aren't they?
[3736.25] Koel: Yeah, I mean, I guess it just gives,
[3740.33] Koel: for our hobby, yeah, like, you know,
[3742.89] Koel: we want Superview and, you know,
[3746.01] Koel: maybe slightly wider if you're like that.
[3750.33] Koel: But for the average user,
[3752.33] Koel: I think it's definitely not geared towards us.
[3758.57] Koel: I don't think any other GoPros
[3759.61] Koel: are ever going to be geared towards us.
[3760.73] Stephen: I'm skeptical about fancy lenses on cheap cameras.
[3763.29] Stephen: It makes me think of, like, those iPhone lenses.
[3765.93] Stephen: You could clip on the back of your iPhone, you know?
[3769.77] Stephen: Is it really, like, a valid choice
[3772.65] Stephen: to put one of those on a fixed-function camera like that?
[3778.73] Koel: Yeah, I mean, I guess it's all use case, right?
[3781.37] Koel: Like, if somebody wants to, you know,
[3786.01] Stephen: to be able to put on a specific look, I suppose,
[3788.49] Stephen: it's like a shortcut to get, like,
[3790.57] Stephen: oh, I've got to have this kind of vignetting look on footage.
[3795.21] Koel: Yeah, yeah, Carolyn Tyler, that's a very good, yeah.
[3798.33] Koel: If it was ever to be FPV geared,
[3800.73] Koel: it would be session-sized.
[3802.89] Koel: Right.
[3803.77] Koel: When will they do it?
[3805.05] Koel: Like, we just-
[3805.93] Stephen: And they wouldn't put those, like,
[3807.45] Stephen: super snap-off fingers on the bottom,
[3809.61] Stephen: but everyone's just going to throw away
[3811.37] Stephen: to save a couple of grams.
[3813.29] Koel: Well, and also, I guess with these new ones,
[3815.77] Koel: I'm not just talking about the regular Hero there,
[3817.45] Koel: but they've implemented that new, well, not the new,
[3820.33] Koel: but what, I guess, DJI was doing with the quick mount,
[3823.85] Koel: like, the magnetic mount thing.
[3826.41] Koel: GoPros now put that on their GoPros.
[3831.05] Koel: Like, with the Action 2, I think,
[3832.57] Koel: like, the little magnetic sort of thing.
[3836.09] Stephen: Oh, I was going to ask a word about Cole.
[3838.73] Stephen: What's your take on the Thumb 2,
[3841.21] Stephen: the RunCam Thumb 2, which they dropped recently,
[3843.85] Stephen: which looks like a slightly fancier version
[3847.29] Stephen: of their 4K camera.
[3848.81] Stephen: You can get decent ND filters,
[3851.29] Stephen: and it looks like it can do slightly higher resolutions,
[3855.29] Stephen: I think, or slightly higher frame rates at 4K
[3858.09] Stephen: than it could previously.
[3859.85] Koel: Well, one thing I will say,
[3863.29] Koel: because my only RunCam action camera
[3865.77] Koel: that I personally ever had was the RunCam,
[3869.69] Koel: what is it called, Orange, RunCam Orange?
[3873.21] Koel: Is that Orange 5 or whatever?
[3875.13] Koel: Yeah, they saw the light.
[3876.33] Koel: RunCam 5 Orange.
[3877.53] Koel: So, there were options, this is the weird thing,
[3881.37] Koel: like, for the RunCam 5 Orange,
[3883.29] Koel: there was options for a screen protector
[3885.45] Koel: and, like, little ND filters,
[3888.17] Koel: but they were basically just stickers
[3890.49] Koel: that would kind of, like, fall off.
[3895.85] Koel: And also, the design for the RunCam 5 Orange
[3899.05] Koel: was not so favorable,
[3900.65] Koel: because the moment you smashed the front lens cover,
[3905.69] Koel: that was it.
[3907.13] Koel: You couldn't screw on a new one.
[3908.49] Koel: You couldn't do anything like that.
[3910.81] Koel: But with this RunCam Thumb 2,
[3914.73] Koel: by the looks of it,
[3916.09] Koel: they've got that little clip-in, filter-y spot.
[3919.37] Koel: That's definitely a step in the right direction,
[3921.37] Koel: as far as, like, if you smash the front of it,
[3923.93] Koel: you can, you know, swap it out.
[3926.65] Koel: I haven't seen any 70 or 80 bucks.
[3929.61] Koel: So, I think...
[3932.17] Koel: Hey, did you know, you know, DrainMan FPV?
[3934.81] Koel: Have you seen him?
[3937.37] Koel: Sounds familiar, but I think he...
[3940.49] Koel: It's a dude from the...
[3941.37] Koel: It's an American dude,
[3942.25] Koel: and I'm pretty sure I watched, like, a video of his...
[3945.13] Koel: It was, like, a couple weeks ago,
[3946.33] Koel: and he did a video on it,
[3948.01] Koel: if I'm not mistaken.
[3949.37] Koel: And it didn't look too bad,
[3951.37] Koel: but my only thing is that we'll never...
[3955.77] Koel: It's really hard to see
[3956.73] Koel: what the true, like, quality will be of these cameras,
[3960.73] Koel: because majority of people in this hobby
[3963.37] Koel: are gonna open the box,
[3965.61] Koel: put it on default settings.
[3968.25] Koel: And default settings will never show you
[3970.49] Koel: the real quality that you can get out of a camera,
[3973.13] Koel: because the sky will always be too bright,
[3975.77] Koel: or the ground will always be too dark,
[3978.17] Koel: or one or the other.
[3979.61] Koel: And I don't know.
[3983.13] Koel: I bet you it's good.
[3983.77] Koel: Like, I'm actually curious to try it myself,
[3986.25] Koel: but I don't...
[3987.29] Koel: Like, I already have too many cameras to do it.
[3988.89] Stephen: It sounds like Caroline's got one,
[3990.49] Stephen: maybe if she sends you a few clips,
[3992.97] Stephen: you can maybe give her a couple of hints,
[3996.49] Stephen: try and see if you can extract the best from the sensor,
[3999.29] Stephen: and get it looking nice.
[4001.37] Koel: Yeah, Caroline, if you...
[4003.53] Koel: Get me on Discord,
[4004.49] Koel: and I'll take a look at the...
[4005.85] Koel: Like, the settings you can set up.
[4008.65] Koel: I'll try and give you some of what I would recommend,
[4011.61] Koel: because I actually had people reach out to me
[4014.65] Koel: when I was using my RunCam 5 Orange,
[4016.49] Koel: and they asked me if I was using, like, a good camera.
[4019.61] Koel: Like, not even, like, an action camera.
[4021.45] Koel: So, like, not to, like, say I'm, like, you know,
[4025.61] Koel: Mr. Settings over here, but...
[4027.53] Stephen: Your username is camera dude.
[4029.53] Stephen: Like, there was an obsession there, isn't there?
[4031.45] Stephen: Let's be honest.
[4032.33] Koel: I am a camera dude.
[4034.65] Koel: A little bit. A little bit.
[4036.89] Koel: Yeah.
[4038.89] Koel: Here, maybe...
[4039.93] Koel: Yeah, so, Caroline, yeah, let's get each other on Discord,
[4044.65] Koel: and let's see if we can, like,
[4046.09] Koel: get some super high quality images out of that,
[4047.93] Koel: because if you can, then everybody can.
[4051.37] Koel: So, we should spread the love.
[4053.93] Koel: Spread the love.
[4055.05] Stephen: And you share the presets as well.
[4056.89] Stephen: With those as well,
[4057.85] Stephen: the presets are all done via a QR code,
[4060.17] Stephen: so if you figure out what's a good preset,
[4062.09] Stephen: you can just literally share a picture.
[4064.81] Stephen: It's so easy for everyone to apply.
[4066.89] Koel: 100%.
[4068.25] Koel: Yeah.
[4070.17] Koel: Cool.
[4071.37] Stephen: Well, thanks very much.
[4073.05] Stephen: I think we've reached a natural conclusion there.
[4075.29] Stephen: We've been streaming our lovely,
[4077.61] Stephen: lovely Patreons for some time.
[4080.01] Stephen: So, thank you everyone who supports the show.
[4082.65] Stephen: You are fantastic, and it's very much appreciated.
[4086.09] Stephen: Yeah.
[4087.85] Stephen: Jack, would you like to see us out as you saw us in?
[4090.81] Jack: No worries.
[4091.37] Jack: You have been listening to let's show now.
[4093.21] Jack: Massive thank you to all our Patreons.
[4095.45] Jack: If you're listening to this recorded,
[4097.85] Jack: we are streamed live every Thursday at 8pm UK time,
[4103.93] Jack: and you can see our lovely faces
[4105.77] Jack: and all the images we put up and talk about and look at.
[4111.77] Jack: You have been joined by everyone's favorite,
[4114.57] Jack: Curry Kitten.
[4116.01] Jack: Goodbye.
[4117.45] Jack: Hope you're feeling better.
[4120.25] Jack: The welcome return.
[4122.41] Jack: My buddy, Cole.
[4124.09] Jack: See you.
[4125.69] Jack: The man with the moustache.
[4128.01] Jack: Cheers.
[4128.81] Jack: Thanks for all the info on cameras, Cole.
[4131.13] Jack: Awesome.
[4132.97] Jack: He's great, isn't he?
[4134.65] Jack: And I have been bright till I fly.
[4137.61] Jack: Thank you very much, and good night.
[4141.45] Jack: Bye.
[4143.69] UNKNOWN: Telemetry lost.