=== Let's Drone Out — Episode 475 ===
Title: LDO 475 - Catcam = Jacknip
Recorded: 2024-10-03
Hosts: Wayne "CurryKitten" Andrews, Stephen "Belrik" Howell, Andrew "Frank" Hyams, Jack "Brightontillifly" Nash
Guest(s): (none recorded)
Total audience: 830
Platforms: YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiA4bRpidug); SoundCloud (http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/feeds.soundcloud.com/stream/1929361316-letsdroneout-ldo-475-catcam-jacknip.mp3)
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#LetsDroneOut #Podcast #FPV #DronePodcast

[0.0] Jack: Hello, and you're listening to Let's Drone Out, a special thank you to our lovely patrons
[6.28] Jack: that help donate so that we can pay the editor to remove the swear words and silly things
[11.36] Jack: we say.
[13.0] Jack: Massive thank you to…
[14.4] Jack: Carlos Campos!
[16.12] Jack: Art Faulkner.
[17.84] Stephen: Sam Dahmer.
[19.68] Stephen: On with the show.
[20.68] Jack: Hello and welcome, you're listening to Let's Drone Out tonight, we're joined by everyone's
[58.34] Jack: favourite carrion.
[59.34] Curry: Hello!
[60.34] Curry: Went big.
[61.34] Jack: Our Lord of Master, Andrew Saffranc.
[64.34] Jack: Hello.
[65.34] Jack: The man with the moustache, Stephen.
[68.34] Jack: Evening, hello.
[69.34] Jack: And I'm your local cat-bothera, right till I fly.
[77.34] Stephen: Remote cat-bothera, actually.
[79.34] Jack: Remote cat-bothera.
[80.34] Jack: Frank, would you like to fill people in?
[82.86] Frank: I bought a wildlife camera for my garden and have given Jack access to it, because it
[92.78] Frank: has Wi-Fi access to it, so Jack can now get a notification every time a cat wanders through
[98.66] Frank: my garden and then he can connect to it and shout at the cat to it and attract the cat
[103.78] Frank: to the camera.
[105.42] Stephen: And Jack's helping to build a Rosetta Stone of human-cat interaction here by the sound
[109.74] Stephen: of it.
[110.74] Jack: Yes.
[111.74] Jack: I don't know, if there's enough interest on the Discord, I'll make the, I don't know,
[119.5] Jack: cat cam.
[120.5] Jack: Like, I can upload my galleries and recordings of me talking to my...
[126.66] Curry: Just do a Twitch stream, just showing a camera to do much better than me and you playing
[129.78] Curry: games.
[130.78] Stephen: Yeah.
[131.78] Stephen: RPG, hard mode.
[133.78] Stephen: Just wait this cat.
[136.5] Curry: Has anyone been flying this week?
[138.82] Curry: Went on Friday.
[139.82] Curry: That doesn't...
[140.9] Curry: It's a show week.
[142.9] Stephen: It's a lot to say indoors, because it just rains all the time week.
[148.66] Curry: Yeah.
[149.66] Curry: Well, Friday was that one day, which is like, oh, it's one day of decentness in all the
[155.14] Curry: crappy stuff either side, and I had quite a lot of failures during that day.
[160.46] Curry: One of which was the quad I was flying was just a failure.
[163.46] Curry: The wobble copter.
[164.5] Curry: And the wobble copter looks pretty, flies like poop.
[168.5] Curry: Do you want to provide a little bit of background on the wobble copter for those who may not
[172.5] Curry: have caught...
[173.5] Curry: I think I showed it before.
[174.5] Curry: I've put it back in a box now because I took up so much room.
[177.14] Curry: So I've got this 10-inch quad from Secure called the BKLI-10 or something, it doesn't
[185.58] Curry: really have a very catchy name.
[187.1] Curry: Looks very pretty.
[188.1] Curry: Seven-inch thick carbon arms, can't even bend it.
[191.54] Curry: It's got a H4 processor-based flight control on it, 900 kV motors, 10-inch props.
[201.9] Curry: Looks very sexy, looks nicely put together, but it flew like absolute crap.
[207.7] Curry: Apart from wobbling horribly, the camera had lines coming in it from interference and rolling
[216.98] Curry: shutter and screen tears as well.
[220.82] Curry: And it was horrible, it was flying terribly.
[225.78] Curry: And it took my 6S4000 and just drunk it down instantly.
[232.94] Stephen: A lot of that would have been the motors, just accelerate, decelerate, accelerate, decelerate
[238.38] Curry: from all the shaking, right?
[242.58] Curry: So I had like a big 868 antenna on the back and using the Nomad module.
[249.26] Curry: So I'm using like, you know, two signals flying along, it would lose the signal, not completely,
[258.74] Curry: but it would go from 10 milliwatts and I'd do a turn and you'd see ELOS rank the power
[263.54] Curry: up to one watt because it's like, I lost it, it's hidden behind this carbon.
[268.86] Curry: And that stuff can go through concrete bunkers.
[271.78] Curry: It's not on 2.4, that's on 868 and it was losing the signal really easily because that's
[276.9] Curry: not lost, but really struggling.
[279.58] Curry: And the VTX was terrible.
[281.46] Curry: You go behind a twig and it's like, what's happened?
[284.74] Stephen: Can't say anything.
[286.34] Stephen: It was not a clean build, I think it's fair to say.
[288.66] Stephen: In every conceivable way, it's a dirty vibration riddled noisy build.
[294.02] Curry: I think so.
[295.02] Curry: And I think people will say and snigger in the comments and say stuff because this video's
[298.58] Curry: out tomorrow.
[299.58] Curry: As I said, like, well, it's only designed to go one way for a special drop off mission.
[303.66] Curry: I wouldn't be confident in hitting any target with that.
[306.86] Curry: It's like, I'm sorry, guys, I blew up next door's shed because it was a bit wobbly and
[311.34] Curry: I couldn't tell where I was going.
[313.98] Stephen: That's not good.
[314.98] Stephen: A factor in that is the more weight you put on the platform, the less it'll vibrate, the
[321.74] Stephen: heavier you make that factor.
[322.74] Curry: But what I need to do as an experiment, I'll get myself a three kilogram box, which I will
[327.94] Curry: write on it, not a bomb, strap that bomb and see if it's any better.
[333.02] Curry: Maybe that's what it's a machine for, yeah.
[335.06] Stephen: A couple of bags of sugar on it or something.
[339.54] Curry: I did actually ping people because Jack can attract it in.
[343.98] Stephen: If anyone's used Betaflight recently, you may notice that they've got some logos on there
[348.34] Stephen: from their preferred partners and Secure, who make that, is actually a preferred partner.
[353.94] Stephen: So they've actually genuinely tried to have a dialogue about the firmware on the flight
[360.5] Stephen: controllers and stuff and designing the flight controllers to not be noisy.
[364.18] Stephen: Unfortunately, it all seems to have kind of gone out the window and no one had heard about
[367.66] Stephen: this giant quad when I asked the team.
[371.78] Stephen: But someone is going to reach out and try and work with them to suggest a better tune,
[377.14] Stephen: like detune it a bit or set the filters correctly because evidently, they looked at the frame
[383.7] Stephen: that the guys at Betaflight and said, well, this thing's just got big, spindly noodle
[388.22] Stephen: arms and that doesn't look too great, but there might be some software changes they
[393.06] Stephen: can do.
[394.06] Stephen: So I'll keep you posted if I do hear anything back on that.
[397.22] Curry: That'd be interesting because I'm prepared to have a go at it.
[401.38] Curry: It's one of those things where it becomes just not at all fun to try and fly it because
[407.74] Curry: it's got no redeeming features whatsoever.
[410.02] Curry: So even if it was flying beautifully, I'd be like, well, this camera is awful.
[414.5] Curry: We need to swap out the VTX and think about how to make the receiver, but at least it
[418.38] Curry: flies nicely.
[419.5] Curry: That would be a start, I suppose.
[422.54] Curry: And that's kind of good in the fact that one of my batteries fell off mid-air, which took
[426.74] Curry: me then a while to find it.
[429.02] Stephen: I think that the price is the redeeming feature, right?
[431.78] Stephen: It's actually surprisingly cheap for the massive motors that you get.
[436.3] Curry: Yeah.
[437.82] Curry: Which makes me think maybe the motors aren't very good.
[440.66] Stephen: Yeah.
[441.66] Stephen: Yeah.
[442.66] Stephen: I mean, it starts at $248, you know, without the receiver, $260, which is probably going
[454.02] Stephen: to translate to about 220 quid UK.
[459.22] Stephen: That gets you the model with an E-LRS receiver and a 1.6 watt VTX.
[467.06] Stephen: I mean, you're just ready to go.
[468.54] Stephen: That's surprisingly cheap.
[471.58] Stephen: The motors are 31.15s, and those motors are normally like 40 to 50 quid each.
[478.06] Stephen: They're big motors.
[479.06] Stephen: Yeah.
[480.06] Curry: Caroline's saying they're like 11.50 each you got them for, because Caroline's building
[485.3] Curry: one of these manually by cutting out bits and files.
[488.42] Stephen: Oh, right.
[489.42] Stephen: Maybe if you buy no-name motors of this size, they're substantially cheaper.
[493.26] Stephen: But if you buy the fancy iFlite ones, they're certainly kind of 40 or 50 quid, I think.
[498.7] Curry: Yeah.
[499.7] Curry: This is not the only one.
[500.7] Curry: I think one of my friends in the US said he's bought a 13-inch based quad, because I was
[507.22] Curry: asking Tony, I was like, what ESCs does he need?
[510.38] Curry: It's essentially into X-class territory, but it's advertised as a regular quad, not so
[516.5] Curry: much an X-class sort of thing.
[518.78] Stephen: Well, it's got an XT90, but the ESCs are rated for 70 amps, and it's still a 4-in-1 ESC board,
[528.18] Stephen: which I believe can handle up to 8S, if I read it right.
[534.06] Stephen: That is a spicy power load going through there, if you're talking about XT90s can happily
[540.62] Stephen: just run flat out at, well, obviously, 90, but you can push 100 amps.
[545.22] Stephen: You push 100 amps through an XT60 for more than a few seconds, it gets really toasty.
[550.3] Stephen: But you could be cruising in just below triple digit ranges of amps on that thing, and that
[557.3] Stephen: just doesn't look like the type of electronics that would maybe take that.
[561.94] Stephen: It seems like that might just catch fire, especially it says it can go at a flight speed
[569.42] Stephen: of 150 kilometers an hour, right?
[571.78] Stephen: So imagine you did get, say, a 12-amp power.
[574.06] Curry: A lot of things, it says it can fly for 45 minutes as well.
[578.98] Curry: I'm not convinced about that.
[581.34] Curry: Not unless that's the full 4 kilograms of payload, it's just battery after battery,
[585.58] Stephen: all connected together.
[587.18] Stephen: How hot is that 4-in-1 going to get with an XT90 just thrashing the pants off it?
[592.18] Jack: It seems like a lot.
[593.18] Jack: I mean, it's got plenty of cooling if it's going that fast.
[597.14] Stephen: Well, if it's going that fast and the frame is adequately built, which, judging from the
[601.78] Stephen: fact that the arms wobble around like noodles, it might not be.
[606.02] Curry: Yeah.
[607.02] Curry: I don't think there's any flex in the arms.
[610.06] Curry: You don't?
[611.06] Curry: The arms are very, very, they look thin, but they are 7mm, and I was trying to flex it,
[616.22] Curry: and I really couldn't get much flex on that, nothing like I would have expected on anything
[620.86] Stephen: else.
[621.86] Stephen: If you've seen the frame of testive, Mr. Rosser, with the long arms having just a single member
[631.1] Stephen: like that, you do end up with a bunch of vibrational modes.
[636.62] Stephen: So we need cross bracing.
[638.06] Stephen: Yeah, cross bracing or triangles.
[640.86] Stephen: So you've got two bits coming out from the body, ending at the motor, just to try and
[646.94] Stephen: ... Because it's going to resonate like crazy, and you've just got to look at the length
[653.74] Stephen: of the arm and be like, well, that's my resonant frequency, and it might just happen that by
[658.42] Stephen: the time the arms get that long, their resonant frequency is kind of in the nasty area.
[664.42] Curry: I found the frequency it needs to not vibrate, but at that point you're falling out the sky.
[669.2] Curry: So if you're barely turning the props, and it's falling down, it seems pretty smooth.
[673.86] Curry: But unfortunately, if you have to keep it in the air, it's wobbly.
[677.62] Stephen: I just need some crazy filtering, or massively detuned, I don't know.
[682.74] Curry: It would be interesting.
[684.54] Curry: Yeah.
[685.54] Curry: It would be interesting if the B-Flight guys come up with anything, because I will stick
[688.7] Curry: it back on and change out loads of components.
[690.98] Stephen: Yeah.
[691.98] Stephen: They definitely work with them on the flight controllers, but it looks like maybe the binder
[696.3] Stephen: fly kind of went under the radar, unfortunately, because it is the showcase for the flight
[700.42] Stephen: controller, which is a bit of a facepalm moment.
[703.06] Stephen: That's not very good.
[705.06] Stephen: It's lacking in its showcase, I'm afraid.
[708.1] Stephen: Yeah, I think they figured that the FC was going to just go in a regular five inch, and
[713.3] Stephen: this thing's clearly not a regular five inch.
[715.94] Curry: No.
[716.94] Curry: But I thought they might have, if they're literally giving this thing, it's an RTF,
[723.46] Curry: basically.
[724.46] Curry: You can just connect your radio to it and fly it.
[726.94] Curry: I expected it to be somewhat like someone would have tested it out and make sure it
[731.7] Curry: flew.
[732.74] Curry: Maybe someone did test it out.
[733.74] Curry: Yeah, fly, is that good enough for us, rather than does it fly reasonably?
[740.34] Curry: How did you get 45 minutes out of it?
[742.3] Curry: It's busy wobbling around doing this.
[744.62] Curry: It's a bit weird.
[745.62] Curry: They don't include a GPS to start with as well.
[747.86] Curry: It's a bit funny.
[749.26] Curry: Yeah, I mean, that's just blocked anyway, with all the people.
[752.38] Curry: Yeah, they're all jammed now.
[753.98] Curry: Not going to hit us.
[755.98] Curry: It is weird that it's actually set up in beta flight.
[759.22] Curry: It says you are six as a GPS, I was like, no, it's not.
[762.38] Stephen: Yeah, if you look at their media, you scroll down and they're like, there's a handy clip-on
[765.9] Stephen: bit that puts a GPS on the back, so evidently they're expecting you to supply, and it lists
[770.82] Stephen: an M10 GPS as an optional part with a buzzer, which probably sensible inclusions or something
[776.98] Stephen: like that, but no mention of it is made as an actual thing you can buy.
[781.54] Stephen: It's just optional in the sense of you can go and buy it, which I wouldn't necessarily
[787.66] Stephen: call optional because then really anything's optional, like gold-plated motors or a jacuzzi.
[793.9] Curry: Yeah, everything's optional if you can buy it somewhere.
[798.34] Curry: On that first, that same day, which was the only decent day, I'd taken out a wing that
[804.14] Curry: was going to use the new OCHIN 2 board on OpenHD, which I haven't used for a while,
[809.5] Curry: and got it out there, plugged it in, had my HD0 goggles, which looks gorgeous with the
[815.66] Curry: HDMI in from the little ground unit, and then the wing completely failed.
[822.42] Curry: I don't know what happened.
[823.78] Curry: It's like, I don't know if the flight controller failed or whatever, as I was sitting there
[828.38] Curry: and I was like, yeah, telemetry is good, right, I'm going to get ready to launch this, and
[832.34] Curry: then it's like, oh, I've got no telemetry coming through, and oh, now my servers don't
[836.22] Curry: react, and oh, nothing's working whatsoever at all, and then I sat there for 20 minutes
[841.62] Curry: unplugging things and re-plugging things and making sure it was all good, and it's just
[845.5] Curry: like, don't want to know, don't want to work.
[849.58] Curry: Is it okay when you plug it into the PC or anything?
[853.5] Curry: No, I haven't done it yet.
[854.62] Curry: I've been all week doing other things, so I was intending to look at it earlier.
[859.34] Curry: But even if it did work, I'd be like, okay, well, I don't trust that anymore because it
[864.62] Curry: suddenly failed.
[865.62] Curry: So, yeah, I don't know.
[866.62] Curry: I'm going to check it out fairly, hopefully, tomorrow.
[868.82] Stephen: I do still get occasional, like, curse of shelf quad, where I take something down and
[874.54] Stephen: plug in the battery, and it's like, no, no, there was a small error in the configuration
[880.22] Stephen: data.
[881.22] Stephen: And just to be safe, we've wiped all the config.
[883.22] Curry: Well, it's not like I hadn't been testing this in my office on the floor then, because
[889.54] Curry: I had to reset up a new version of OpenHD on both things, had to upgrade the version
[894.18] Curry: of iNav on the flight controller, and then I was checking all the telemetry and the servos
[900.26] Curry: still set up because I put it on a different radio, and then I had to, like, check all
[904.82] Curry: the modes were still working and stuff, and we're coming out on the screen.
[907.7] Curry: So it was all working fine, and it was working for the first five minutes while I had it
[912.3] Curry: sat on the floor, and after that point, it decided it didn't want to work anymore.
[915.9] Stephen: What's the OCHIN board like to work with?
[917.7] Stephen: Is it a much easier approach to getting a Pi in the air?
[922.5] Curry: Yeah, I mean, the new one, I'm actually using as ground station because it's got HDMI out,
[928.38] Curry: which is a much easier thing than using like a Pi 4.
[932.1] Curry: But yeah, the OCHIN is better than a Pi, mainly because it's got power regulation.
[937.1] Curry: So you don't have to think about where am I going to get this 5 volts from at this stupid
[942.22] Curry: amount of amps.
[944.26] Curry: It's just like, oh, well, I can plug to like 2 to 6S in here, and then I can do other things.
[949.78] Curry: The only tricky thing to it is the communications by USB are very subjective to, like, noise.
[957.66] Curry: So what you need to do is, like, find a bunch of USB cables that are nicely shielded that
[961.42] Curry: you don't want anymore, and cut them up.
[964.22] Curry: And then you have about this much, which is your join to the connector on the OCHIN
[968.98] Curry: board, and this much, which is your join to anything else.
[972.9] Curry: And then most of your cable is lovely shielded, because I literally, I was using just this
[978.86] Curry: set one to try and use Tevring on my Android tablet to make sure it would work.
[985.34] Curry: And it just, it would fail and fail, and I was like, what's going wrong with this?
[988.94] Curry: And then at a desperation, I plugged it into the cable I made up for the network adapter,
[993.58] Curry: and then it's absolutely fine.
[994.86] Curry: It's like, oh, literally, just because it's got, these cables are bare and not shielded,
[1001.26] Curry: it's like completely failed.
[1002.94] Curry: That's how susceptible it is.
[1005.02] Jack: I had that with, I upgraded my 3D printer to Clipper, and I was using the USB cable
[1017.74] Jack: that type C, that Frank got me, the silver one.
[1021.58] Jack: And as far as I was concerned, that was a good quality thing.
[1025.1] Jack: It works on everything I've ever gone to use it with.
[1029.18] Jack: And it wouldn't work.
[1030.18] Jack: And in the end, I had to use a short GoPro one.
[1035.58] Jack: And then,
[1036.58] Curry: I'll just aim the thing too long.
[1038.86] Jack: No, or high quality.
[1042.86] Jack: And then I got recommended a Ugreen.
[1046.22] Jack: So I had to buy a Ugreen and that's,
[1049.02] Jack: It's really hard to know what's inside USB.
[1051.98] Stephen: You can't go buy a diameter of the cable because some of them are just all plastic
[1055.86] Stephen: and you open it and it's like 40 gauge wire that you can barely see, like strands of hair.
[1061.9] Curry: Yeah, yeah, absolutely right.
[1063.5] Curry: Because I cut one open because like this is, you can barely bend this, it's really good.
[1067.1] Curry: It's just, it's just thick plastic and then just more plastic cables inside.
[1071.74] Curry: And like, as you take some other one apart and it's got, wow, this is really good.
[1074.9] Curry: It's got like the netted sort of metal cable.
[1079.18] Curry: And then around there, it's got like tin foil stuff.
[1081.46] Curry: It's like, this is the good stuff.
[1082.78] Curry: We want this stuff, let's solder to that.
[1085.46] Curry: Yeah, yeah.
[1087.7] Stephen: It's hard to know.
[1088.54] Stephen: So we'll come back and try that.
[1089.58] Stephen: What do you have on the air side then, Kerry?
[1092.42] Stephen: It's another Oaken.
[1094.18] Stephen: Let me grab a bit.
[1095.02] Stephen: Oh, so you've got Oaken on both sides?
[1096.46] Stephen: Okay.
[1097.3] UNKNOWN: Yep.
[1098.14] Stephen: Or Oaken or Oaken, who knows?
[1100.5] Curry: I don't know if Oaken or Oaken or something like that.
[1103.54] Curry: But in here is, you remember this as the expensive network adapter.
[1108.78] Curry: So that's the flight controller there.
[1111.34] Curry: And over here, it's got a heat sink on it, but that's the Oaken board.
[1114.86] Curry: So we're cabled in.
[1117.14] Curry: So we take, power comes in from there and we've got basically a telemetry over
[1124.14] Curry: from the flight controller into there.
[1126.98] Curry: And then that connects over here.
[1129.46] Curry: And the whole thing bangs back into the Oaken 2, which is in this bag.
[1138.82] Jack: Do you have fly wings, Evo, or is that a flight test?
[1143.62] Curry: That's a flying wings.
[1146.06] Curry: So this is what the Oaken 2 looks like.
[1149.18] Curry: So that's now my ground unit, which is a lot neater.
[1154.7] Curry: So that's got some active coolings.
[1156.3] Stephen: Starting to look like real products, not just a bunch of random nerd stuff
[1161.3] Stephen: stuck together with tape, aren't they?
[1162.9] Stephen: They're looking good.
[1163.42] Curry: To an extent, it's still, that's the Oaken board.
[1166.74] Curry: And then you've got the Pi compute module 4.
[1168.74] Curry: And then you've got a fan on top of it to keep it cool.
[1173.14] Curry: I mean, it's not small.
[1174.26] Stephen: It just looks like less of a spaghetti noodle mess than the old stuff used to be.
[1179.3] Curry: And then you've got my super USB cable, which has just got that much actual cable.
[1186.78] Curry: And the rest is lovely shielded USB and that works.
[1190.46] Curry: And that's one working USB cable.
[1193.54] Curry: This is not a professional USB cable, people, but it works OK for a mouse.
[1201.33] Frank: I think you could be forgiven for thinking that that was like a naked...
[1206.09] Frank: Yeah, it looks pretty good.
[1208.37] Curry: You could use it as an air unit.
[1210.25] Curry: But it's just because I already had one in the wing as an air unit
[1213.37] Curry: and the new number two has the HDMI out.
[1215.85] Curry: And I thought, that's quite a neat solution because, you know,
[1218.49] Curry: you can imagine, like, I could stick this on your Google.
[1221.09] Curry: And a 3D printed case, call it good.
[1223.73] Curry: Yeah.
[1224.93] Curry: The only thing that I'm kind of tethered to the ground on
[1229.73] Curry: is because I can't record with this.
[1232.93] Curry: I could record with this, but not with the OSD and that.
[1235.53] Stephen: I'm pretty sure you can't you just write to the have like a MicroSD card in it and just...
[1241.69] Curry: There is no way to put MicroSD. It's EC memory.
[1245.93] Curry: But you can record to it.
[1251.37] Curry: But I don't think you get the OSD if you do that.
[1254.01] Stephen: You just get the air side data that is accurate.
[1256.73] Curry: So what I do, I tether an Android tablet to it.
[1259.73] Curry: And I use this thing called QOpenHD, which gets the same telemetry down.
[1264.13] Curry: And then I just screen record that as my DVR.
[1267.45] Curry: So I'm kind of I'm kind of tethered, if you like.
[1271.49] Curry: Although I could technically run it.
[1273.45] Curry: I could run local Wi-Fi on that and do it that way.
[1276.65] Stephen: But then with Walsnail and all the other stuff, you end up not getting the OSD on the goggles.
[1281.57] Stephen: You have like just a text file that pretty much records all of the display commands.
[1286.69] Stephen: And then you replay them with a program and it creates the overlay and maps it onto the video file.
[1292.25] Stephen: You've got to like mux in your own overlay.
[1298.26] Curry: Yeah, I guess so. If you could get it to record the telemetry as well, then that would work.
[1306.38] Curry: Challenge for someone out there.
[1308.18] Curry: Yeah, but I hadn't I hadn't followed OpenHD up for a while.
[1311.82] Curry: So they've definitely made a lot of improvements there as well in the same way that OpenIPC was very tricky at the start.
[1319.18] Curry: OpenHD also used like config files and it's just just like log on to your Pi and change this file and change that file.
[1326.42] Curry: It's now because I had it on a little screen when I was sort of sorting out.
[1331.1] Curry: And it's just plug a mouse in and you click on this thing for the antenna and you can say change the frequency on the air unit and the ground unit at the same time.
[1340.9] Curry: So they sync up together and things. And it's quite easy to use like a little five way pad like you have on the on the cameras.
[1350.58] Stephen: But five way joystick to do I have a five range settings to make anything like you said plug a mouse in it.
[1356.7] Stephen: That seemed like the weirdest thing in the world.
[1360.62] Curry: I get that would be weird. If you're out, it'd be like the weirdest VR thing.
[1363.9] Curry: I'm out in the field going, yep, yep, OK.
[1367.86] Curry: I've got a little desk next year just to put your mouse on.
[1370.38] Curry: You used to be able to. I don't know if this is still the thing.
[1373.14] Curry: When you were using the pies, what you could do is have little switches to bridge pins and that would change certain options.
[1379.98] Curry: And I don't know if they've done anything like that.
[1384.6] Stephen: But if you had like a little five way joystick, then if you put it in a module, you can just have a little clicky thing on the module.
[1393.08] Stephen: Yeah, it would be quite nifty.
[1394.88] Stephen: There seemed to be really designing for the sort of flyer that takes a laptop to the field.
[1398.92] Stephen: It still feels like that's that's the goal, right?
[1402.64] Curry: It is a bit, yeah, especially when you're because most of like you can't really do any setup on it unless you you've got some sort of mouse or something to do some clicky clicks and change some bits.
[1415.52] Stephen: Caroline's got a selection to save the trouble of taking a mouse to the field. What about a trackball?
[1422.04] Stephen: Isn't that the same? It's the same thing, except going like this.
[1425.6] Stephen: No, it's larger and heavier to start with, so it's less likely to slide away.
[1430.88] Jack: And you don't need a table or you can go with the Toshiba nipple in the middle of it and work it out that way.
[1438.36] Stephen: That would be mutually.
[1440.44] Stephen: Yeah, just the usability side is clearly lagging behind the let's optimize everything and make it shinier and faster side of things.
[1449.56] Curry: It's not quite there.
[1450.28] Curry: I think the problem with all these things is so far no one's integrated it into goggles properly.
[1456.24] Curry: If it got integrated into goggles and had the software interface between them, then it would be a case of like, I've got this little five way joystick.
[1462.68] Curry: I can do a little bit bit bit here and do things. But that's that hasn't come yet.
[1469.48] Stephen: I've heard people talk about these like rads or boards as being super cheap alternatives to the pie.
[1474.96] Stephen: And that seems to be a promising avenue for both projects, in fact, to end up with something that's cost effective and includes all the acceleration they need in a single package.
[1485.6] Curry: Yeah, they seem to be small enough to build into goggles. They're about sort of pie zero size and they're very, very good performative.
[1494.44] Curry: It's like you get one hundred and twenty frames per second and one out of open IPC.
[1500.16] Curry: So, yeah, I might look at getting one if I can figure it out.
[1503.28] Stephen: We'll just wait until the manufacturer puts it in a 3D printed case with a nice little set of clicky buttons on the outside.
[1509.84] Curry: Yeah, someone's going to do something is I think we're going to be some way away from like proper full integration where you don't have to have like an external box and fiddle about with it and things.
[1521.48] Curry: But I think it's moved forwards. Everything's moving forward.
[1525.24] Curry: When do we have those two projects on it?
[1526.84] Curry: Sort of six or eight months ago, I think. And they definitely enjoy it.
[1530.92] Curry: And yeah, I mean, OpenHD were talking about their own hardware, which because I remember that some poor guy had to hand solder that sort of stuff.
[1541.68] Curry: I'm not on the mailing list. Did you hear anything about that?
[1545.76] Curry: Not really. I had a quick poke around the website and stuff when I was setting up the new version because it had changed a bit and I had to instill it on both sides.
[1555.32] Curry: I hadn't really seen much in the way of like their own hardware stuff, getting bigger or getting more of it.
[1563.8] Curry: I know they got those first units out and got them out to your users, but I don't know what they've done since that time.
[1570.52] Stephen: Yeah, the last announcement was a 2.6 release, which was July, June and June.
[1578.88] Curry: Yeah, because that's the one I picked up. And like we found I mean, we found a couple of weird things with it that didn't work previously.
[1587.36] Curry: Like I used to use this this option called Ethernet over USB in order to connect to my tablet.
[1595.84] Curry: But because they actually maybe rewrote it, they'd somewhat hard coded the interface that it needed to use.
[1602.96] Curry: And I didn't have that available, which is why I went to USB tethering as an alternative to doing it.
[1608.6] Curry: But still work. So there's some something still to mess about with and stuff.
[1614.0] Stephen: But no, I haven't heard much about that hardware at the moment.
[1616.32] Stephen: Yeah, well, intriguing to see what the likes of Emacs and RunCam can kick out.
[1620.4] Stephen: And if those two are on board, you can bet that there's going to be another sort of two or three companies that throw their hat in and give it a go.
[1627.6] Curry: Hmm. Yeah, you mentioned this like Bardwell did a review, didn't they be on the Emacs things?
[1634.56] Curry: Yeah, those things that look like something they're not.
[1640.0] Curry: Yeah, they did confuse me slightly with this that they've got these two receivers and these are the receivers that you plug into your Android phone or laptop.
[1647.64] Curry: So it's like USB C and X 30.
[1652.32] Curry: But they did say to me, this this is like the regular receiver and this is the two watt receiver.
[1658.04] Curry: And I had to say, I don't understand what power has got to do with receiving.
[1664.48] Curry: And then they said to me, I think they said something like, don't think of it as like power for receiving.
[1671.08] Curry: It's more of a more of this will drive the hardware faster and it'll be able to get more range somehow.
[1679.92] Curry: That's yet to be tested.
[1681.52] Curry: Yeah, I thought it was a one way link. I didn't realize that. That's odd.
[1685.84] Curry: It is a one way link. There's no transmission from these guys.
[1691.6] Curry: It is simply a one way link.
[1694.36] Curry: So there shouldn't be power shouldn't do anything at all, which is why it confused me.
[1699.4] Curry: But they also told me and the Emacs guys sounded pretty switched on.
[1704.64] Curry: Actually, I had a decent conversation with someone there.
[1708.08] Curry: He literally said, like, I use this when I got like something like fifteen hundred feet and then this one I got like twenty two hundred feet.
[1715.0] Curry: I was like, why? I don't know. But figure it out.
[1720.76] Curry: But yeah, Emacs said they were developing this stuff for a while, actually.
[1725.4] Curry: And then sort of run cam jumped in and tried to rush and got to market first.
[1731.32] Curry: But they're saying as they would, their stuff's better.
[1734.6] Stephen: For example, let's fire up the 3D printer boys and get this out next week instead of waiting for the models to come through.
[1741.36] Stephen: What was interesting? If you let's get these guys out.
[1745.76] Jack: What should it carry for you to be for us by the video?
[1752.64] Curry: I know I hadn't I hadn't watched it.
[1755.28] Curry: I did watch it for my I don't want any many people's stuff, really.
[1760.4] Stephen: I did notice he did he did way better with the stuff.
[1763.36] Stephen: I can't remember because there's one that's like a two watt AIO and VTX and then there's a hundred milliwatt.
[1771.48] Stephen: And I wasn't sure which one he was using of the Emacs boards.
[1775.72] Stephen: But the path was a lot better than run cam. Run cam suffered.
[1781.6] Curry: It's not that I don't watch in January, but I don't.
[1783.88] Curry: But when I've got some interview, I try not to watch other people's stuff just in case it influenced me.
[1790.76] Curry: One interesting thing I was saying about that, because I said to them, oh, I noticed I think this is this is like the two what this is the powerful one, whatever it is.
[1798.52] Curry: I said, I know if you don't have any like external fan or anything on this, do I need to be careful and give it external calling?
[1804.72] Curry: And he was like, no, we've built it really well.
[1807.64] Curry: And I've had it sat there for an hour on the on the on the floor without any problems.
[1812.56] Curry: He might have been talking about the the 100 milliwatt one, but that's that's slightly more impressive than just chucking some some together.
[1822.92] Curry: So but as you said, this is a really strange dimension, the 35 mil board.
[1828.2] Curry: I'm not quite sure where it's going to go.
[1830.12] Stephen: They've really gone to some lengths to make it 35.
[1832.76] Stephen: If like it wasn't easy for them to do that, they decided to extend it out.
[1839.54] Curry: Interesting choice.
[1840.3] Curry: Exciting times, exciting times.
[1842.18] Curry: We we've always talked about wanting more options and yeah, different options.
[1848.7] Curry: So we've got them.
[1849.98] Curry: I still think and I think as you paraphrase to me, that that was still the the conclusion from Bardwell.
[1856.3] Curry: It's like this is interesting, but it's very much enthusiastic hobbyist rather than ready for the mass market.
[1862.66] Curry: And I think it's still some time away from that.
[1865.98] Curry: It literally need to have a pair of goggles and something you can just drop in and configure it by a couple of button pressures,
[1874.54] Curry: not by SSHing over to it and connecting it to Ethernet and stuff like that.
[1879.74] Stephen: When we had those projects on, I think I said at the time, it looks like this is a couple of years away.
[1884.42] Stephen: And it's it's encouraging to make a comment like that and realize that, you know, actually, time is passing and these projects are improving.
[1891.26] Stephen: And when you say six or eight months ago, it's a couple of years away, you know, you're looking, oh, yeah, maybe it's only like a year and a half or a year away.
[1898.42] Stephen: And if we look back at where HD zero was, which had more of a public development than the the DGI and walks now stuff,
[1907.22] Stephen: they had this frostbite system that looked absolutely awful and then a shark bite system that was a bit better.
[1913.94] Stephen: And then Carl's Al decided to start the business himself.
[1917.94] Stephen: And if we kind of compare where those are, I think you're looking at something that's like an early prototype to that shark bite frostbite system,
[1926.78] Stephen: one with this standalone monitor and everything was a bit sketchy.
[1930.66] Stephen: It looks like we're approaching that kind of early prototype stage, but in a very public way.
[1937.34] Curry: So fingers crossed. And there is there is something if it goes ahead better than the likes of the bite frost.
[1945.82] Curry: And I still remember Greg getting angry at me about my comments about what I said about that, which only made me say even more.
[1953.5] Curry: But that's the fact that if this thing does actually take off and does become consumer friendly, of course,
[1959.3] Curry: it's open source hardware, which means anybody can build it.
[1962.06] Curry: So I don't think open IPC are very keen on saying it's like the the ERS of BTX is because it's way more complex than that.
[1972.78] Curry: But if it gives every manufacturer the option to build one out of the parts they want and will all be compatible with everything else,
[1980.7] Curry: it does make the market sort of very open.
[1983.5] Curry: And then it's like you can you can expect to get decent prices for things because, of course,
[1988.98] Curry: everybody will in competition to try and bring out cheaper and better units all the time.
[1994.78] Curry: So that's a very much a positive. Yeah, absolutely.
[1997.86] Stephen: It's going to be great to see that happen. And, you know, I just hope that by getting these modules out on the market,
[2003.46] Stephen: they can start to drum up more interest because they're in this, you know, awkward situation where they can't get interest
[2010.34] Stephen: unless people are using the product and they're getting excited about it.
[2014.74] Stephen: So they're like, well, to develop it, we have to sell it, but to sell it. Yeah, you know, where do we start?
[2021.86] Curry: As far as I know, because both RunCam and Emacs did this as a bit of a test.
[2025.7] Curry: It's like let's let's bring like 100 or 1000 units and both of them sold out instantly,
[2033.34] Curry: which lets them believe that there's some interest there.
[2035.9] Curry: Let's bring another bunch of units out and see what we can do.
[2040.02] Curry: But they know it's not ready for mass market.
[2043.38] Curry: So they're very much testing the water with it, see what the interest is.
[2047.26] Curry: But I find it interesting to say, and Emacs didn't tell me not to say anything,
[2051.46] Curry: but they said they're working on a Google module because I said, oh, these are really nice.
[2056.34] Curry: But I think the first person that brings out something that's going to sort of, you know,
[2059.86] Curry: clip to your side of head and have a little HDMI lead straight into your goggles and be able to record will be good.
[2065.9] Curry: And they said, we're already working on it. Yeah. Hurry up.
[2069.7] Stephen: Maybe even something that can like draw power from an analog bay and just like drop the HDMI out.
[2075.02] Stephen: So you don't need to mess around with the adapters and stuff. Who knows?
[2079.14] Curry: The ideal, because at the moment it's going to be a bit of a Franken-Gogol type approach, isn't it?
[2084.5] Curry: We were like, just here's an interesting 3D print to put them on and put a battery there.
[2088.9] Curry: So you'll be going, here's a counterweight for the back of your head.
[2091.7] Stephen: Stop the power splitter when like all goggles have module bays that give them power.
[2097.1] Stephen: And no one like bothers to attach a digital module into the module, but it seems like a no brainer to me, at least.
[2104.1] Curry: Yeah, I don't know. I don't know if it would draw too much power or not.
[2107.1] Curry: I mean, I don't know what he's actually used. I haven't looked at the instructions yet.
[2111.3] Stephen: I guess we'll find out soon. Next summer is going to be interesting by the looks of it,
[2115.34] Stephen: assuming that they carry on selling out these early prototypes and keep iterating.
[2121.1] Curry: Yeah. I mean, I hope they just carry on like there's still a lot to do.
[2126.14] Curry: It's just someone needs to get on and have a I haven't looked to see what hopefully there's my project and say, here's our big, here's our big stages.
[2135.78] Curry: This is what we want for an FPV system. And here's our target dates and stuff.
[2142.06] Frank: This episode was recorded in front of a live online audience, downloaded and edited to make sense when it played audio only.
[2148.7] Frank: Sensors to please the iTunes people hosted on the Internet, forwarded through to your podcast provider,
[2153.46] Frank: downloaded, playing on your device and is now playing in your ears.
[2157.18] Frank: All thanks to our Patreons. Consider joining them and you'll also get other online benefits.
[2162.74] Frank: Find out more at patreon.com forward slash let's drone out.
[2168.18] Stephen: How is a display port overlay working?
[2171.34] Stephen: Can you use actual like integrated FC?
[2176.54] Stephen: OSD, yeah. Or are you still driving everything with Mavlink?
[2180.86] Curry: I haven't tried it yet. I mentioned it the other week.
[2183.62] Curry: You said it was you looked at it and it was pretty pretty poor at the moment.
[2187.22] Stephen: It sounded like it was moving like I just don't I mean, I don't have any of that open IBC kit.
[2192.74] Stephen: So curious. I'll have a look.
[2195.98] Curry: I had a bad week in terms of doing anything.
[2198.14] Curry: So I've got these and haven't used them yet.
[2200.42] Curry: But I'll try plugging everything in and see and see what it's like.
[2204.9] Curry: Basically, it's see if I do the update on the system.
[2207.74] Stephen: I'm not saying I was going to give my toe, but I just think it's a bit early for me
[2212.3] Stephen: because I've already spoiled with my walk sale on three kit.
[2216.3] Stephen: I've got to actually fly this stuff.
[2217.78] Stephen: So I'm going to wait until it's a bit more consumable until it's flyable.
[2221.78] Stephen: I absolutely think you're doing the doing God's work, you know,
[2225.46] Stephen: keeping people informed and putting all the hours in to make sure that this stuff can make it to market.
[2231.66] Stephen: I think that's awesome. I'm just a bit lazy myself.
[2234.46] Stephen: So waiting for an easier version, I guess.
[2238.22] Jack: I reckon you should challenge yourself, man.
[2241.18] Jack: You know, you've had it too easy with these turnkey solutions.
[2245.98] Jack: Mr. Linux, I think you should really sort of.
[2250.26] Stephen: Well, I mean, I'm challenging myself just in I've got piles of other awkward to use hardware
[2255.74] Stephen: that I've been working on and just not necessarily flying stuff.
[2258.7] Curry: Yeah. Yeah, I think you should change it more.
[2261.3] Curry: I think you have like a server that flies and you have to keep SSH to it
[2266.74] Curry: and type in commands when you want to change direction and things like that.
[2270.94] Curry: I think that's better.
[2272.06] Curry: And you have to do it all in regular expressions just to make sure it's all in Pearl.
[2276.94] Stephen: Just a real time Pearl interpreter.
[2279.38] Stephen: Yes, that sounds fair.
[2282.78] Jack: What's that version of Linux that's suicide?
[2287.02] Jack: If you type in a command wrong, it deletes everything.
[2290.78] Jack: They're all mostly the same, really.
[2295.18] Stephen: Yeah, that's the one that lives in jack head.
[2298.58] Stephen: It wouldn't be that challenging.
[2302.7] Stephen: It would be comforting that at least the toolset was familiar.
[2306.42] Stephen: And I'm not I do a lot of work on like little wireless routers and things that have
[2312.58] Stephen: maybe like 16 megaflash and 64 megs of RAM.
[2316.7] Stephen: So I'm used to these tiny little boxes and I'm used to the way the images are built for them
[2321.22] Stephen: and the lack of tools that you typically have on them.
[2324.46] Stephen: That part would be fine.
[2325.58] Stephen: It's just having picture quality and having something that I actually want to fly with.
[2330.94] Stephen: That's going to be the barrier because I have to want to use it.
[2334.58] Stephen: A lot of the time, if I'm going to fly, I'll just grab something that I know is going to
[2338.7] Stephen: definitely work and give me a good experience.
[2341.7] Stephen: That doesn't mean grabbing the analog kit that might be interesting.
[2344.66] Stephen: It means grabbing some digi thing and a pair of goggles and legging it.
[2349.18] Curry: That is possibly the other challenge.
[2350.7] Curry: So the sort of open source HD digital system is more sort of a lifestyle choice, if you like,
[2359.14] Curry: because we can go out and we can buy.
[2363.06] Curry: Obviously, like the Walks and Algol was a quite pricey, but the receivers and camera setups
[2367.74] Curry: that's sort of about 90 to 150 quid and you get a pretty good experience from sidebar.
[2372.38] Stephen: Curry, you've just raised a very interesting point there because someone in our chat
[2376.66] Stephen: spotted a new set of fat sharks, a fat shark HDR class, which was 470 English pound currency
[2388.61] Stephen: units, 470 quid for analog goggles, which, okay, that is the same price as the Skyzones,
[2394.49] Stephen: but with the Skyzones, you get like a DVR that does H264 instead of motion JPEG.
[2400.73] Stephen: You get like built-in ELRS backpack.
[2403.17] Stephen: So the channel changes when you change your VTX channel on the quad.
[2407.97] Stephen: And you get a built-in module where it's fat shark, you know, another 60 quid or whatever
[2414.37] Stephen: on top of that.
[2415.37] Stephen: I did do a version with the module.
[2417.69] Stephen: I thought, really, are they still 470 quid in 2024?
[2421.41] Stephen: Is that how much digital goggles they must have gone up?
[2423.97] Stephen: And no, I actually checked the Walksnail goggles.
[2426.89] Stephen: The original set is 75 quid cheaper than the latest set of fat sharks and the Walksnail
[2434.65] Stephen: goggles X, which have analog input and do digital and have HDMI in, like five pound
[2441.29] Stephen: cheaper than the latest fat sharks that don't come with an analog module and don't do any
[2445.65] Stephen: digital.
[2446.65] Stephen: It's just like, what are they doing?
[2451.57] Curry: That's crazy.
[2452.57] Curry: I have to say, I thought fat shark kind of gave up and were just like a retired little
[2459.41] Curry: brand that was now prior.
[2462.93] Stephen: Also, they had the HDOs and then the HDO2s, and then you're like HDO plus.
[2470.93] Stephen: What?
[2471.93] Stephen: Okay.
[2472.93] Stephen: So we've gone from HDO, HDO2, HDO plus, but is that a successor to the original HDOs?
[2480.93] Stephen: Or is that a version three?
[2483.77] Stephen: Because it sounds like it's actually a successor to the HDOs, not the HDO2s if it's an HDO
[2489.09] Stephen: plus.
[2490.09] Stephen: HDO2 plus.
[2491.09] Stephen: I don't know.
[2492.09] Curry: It's just this bit of meta quest that's bringing out of there.
[2494.09] Curry: Who the hell does that?
[2495.09] Curry: They're 3S, which is not as good as the 3, and based around the 2, or the same guy that
[2502.25] Curry: came up with the Xbox name convention.
[2503.97] Curry: We had the Xbox, the Xbox 360.
[2505.97] Curry: What's the third one going to be called?
[2506.97] Curry: Xbox One.
[2507.97] Curry: What?
[2508.97] Curry: No.
[2509.97] Stephen: Hang on.
[2510.97] Stephen: How does that work?
[2511.97] Stephen: There's so many cracked pipes in boardrooms, it's unbelievable.
[2516.86] Stephen: It tells things recommending the EV300 OLED.
[2520.26] Stephen: I think that's an E-Sheen set of goggles.
[2524.26] Stephen: One of the first ones with OLED panels in there.
[2530.16] Curry: All I was saying before we talked about goggles was, I think the challenge is the fact that
[2537.8] Curry: as good as open HD or open IPC is going to get, it's not going to get to the same level
[2543.56] Curry: as things like WalkSnail or DJI, and they're not going to be that much of differentiation
[2550.32] Curry: in price, where you can get the camera unit things.
[2556.32] Curry: I think the RunCAM one was about 60, 70 pounds, so it's cheaper, but not super cheap, but
[2563.32] Curry: not quite as good.
[2564.32] Curry: That's what I said, it's almost a lifestyle choice to say, I want to go open source, I
[2570.36] Curry: don't want these corporations telling me how I can fly.
[2574.64] Curry: Wow.
[2575.64] Curry: That is money.
[2577.44] Curry: Then again, goggles have always been expensive.
[2581.04] Stephen: Promote a local store, if we're going to do that, Jack.
[2585.24] Jack: No, look, there you go.
[2587.24] Jack: Look, FatShart ATO 2.1 with an RX module.
[2592.24] Jack: Yeah, own RX module.
[2596.71] Jack: I'm not promoting them, they're the only people that list that shit.
[2600.71] Stephen: Oh yeah.
[2601.71] Jack: Because it's not on, as you can see, it's not on FatShart's website.
[2608.88] Stephen: It's a bit crazy.
[2609.88] Stephen: That's why I showed FatShart first.
[2611.88] Stephen: This is the new stuff that I found there.
[2613.88] Stephen: So FatShart, HDO+, 473 quid.
[2619.88] Stephen: I mean, it's a lot.
[2621.88] Stephen: You did say FatShart as well.
[2624.88] Stephen: Yeah, I believe that's the pronunciation that Andy R.C. was using.
[2629.88] Stephen: FatShart.
[2631.88] Jack: Speaking of Shart, Frank, you've been busy, haven't you?
[2636.88] Jack: You've designed something.
[2638.48] Jack: What a link.
[2639.48] Jack: What a link.
[2640.48] Stephen: Yeah, so before we jump off this list with your amazing Shart link,
[2646.48] Stephen: I was just going to quickly point to the contemporaries just to try and put perspective on this.
[2653.48] Stephen: So you do have the Orca ones, which are a bit more, but I think are a better product.
[2657.48] Stephen: SkyZones, exactly the same price, but with your module.
[2662.08] Stephen: Your walk snail, the latest walk snail ones, they're 15 quid cheaper
[2669.08] Stephen: and they're a digital goggle with analog input.
[2675.28] Stephen: And you look more like an ant, which is cool.
[2677.68] Stephen: Yeah, I don't know.
[2679.68] Stephen: I don't know what's going through the FatShart people's heads.
[2683.68] Stephen: It's interesting.
[2684.68] Stephen: It's interesting.
[2685.68] Stephen: It's challenging pricing, I would say.
[2688.68] Stephen: Anyway, sorry, please, Shart away.
[2692.08] Frank: Well, it was Tony's 50th birthday since the last show.
[2698.08] Frank: What have you built, Frank?
[2699.08] Frank: Not well enough to be here for us to give him the bumps, but...
[2704.08] Frank: He's so old.
[2708.08] Frank: Yeah, this is why you give him his credit.
[2710.08] Stephen: It's more like a visual 60.
[2713.48] Frank: Yeah, so, I mean, Jack came up with the idea, I think, of commemorating Tony's escapades at Gatwick.
[2729.48] Frank: But he was on TV for a while with his FatShart goggles on top of his van at Gatwick immediately after the drone incident at Gatwick.
[2743.08] Frank: And, you know, we've over the years had many running jokes about Tony's conspiracy theory hobbies.
[2756.48] Frank: So I've pulled them together into some new LDO merch in the LDO shop.
[2764.48] Frank: So if you go to letsdroneoutworld.com and go to the shop, you will see the brand new merch, which is...
[2778.88] Frank: Yeah, so the default is a black Santa hat, but you can get lots of other things with the logo on it.
[2788.88] Frank: Yeah, so we've got this new merch.
[2792.88] Frank: So the design is, it is Tony as the all-seeing eye within the pyramid of Gatwick Airport runway.
[2804.28] Frank: And it's got EGKK, which is the iCAL code for Gatwick Airport 2018 to Tony at the bottom.
[2816.28] Frank: Red Santa, you can have a t-shirt, you can have a hoodie, you can do all sorts of things.
[2820.28] Frank: I think you can add other things.
[2823.28] Stephen: You can currently only get women's t-shirts in some interesting LDO reverse discrimination.
[2829.28] Stephen: Great.
[2831.28] Stephen: And a variety of fantastic colours, I have to say.
[2836.36] Stephen: You can be your own warning to others in the vicinity that you're flying, because no one's going to miss you wearing one of these.
[2845.36] Stephen: Look at that.
[2846.36] Frank: What's he holding?
[2847.36] Frank: He is holding his Huai P30, which was a tablet phone that he's taken lots of fancy pictures on.
[2859.36] Frank: It's always going on about.
[2861.36] Jack: Was that available back in 2018?
[2865.36] Jack: I don't know.
[2867.36] Stephen: So you're telling me, is this a very large phone, or is this, well...
[2873.36] Stephen: A very small Tony.
[2874.36] Stephen: We've seen Tony.
[2876.36] Curry: He's not height, well, challenged in the height department.
[2882.36] Curry: This is why we've got women's t-shirts available, because we wanted him to fit.
[2887.36] Stephen: But should you have something to prove that there's also a vest?
[2895.36] Frank: Cash, outdoor vest wear.
[2898.36] Frank: Tony and Andy, there's a penchant for tank tops.
[2904.36] Stephen: The black rock vest.
[2906.36] Stephen: Do you want to get your guns out?
[2909.36] Stephen: Oh, the red early warning vest.
[2912.36] Stephen: Or should you have a furry friend?
[2915.36] Frank: Oh, yeah, there's the dog bandana.
[2917.36] Stephen: There is, as modelled here by a lovely little doggo, a dog bandana.
[2921.36] Stephen: It's pretty awesome.
[2923.36] Stephen: So there you are.
[2925.36] Frank: There you go.
[2927.36] Frank: That's how I've spent my insomnia.
[2929.36] Frank: How about everyone else?
[2931.36] Stephen: Perfect use of the time.
[2933.36] Stephen: Looks wonderful. Thanks, Frank. That's awesome.
[2936.36] Frank: Thank you. Really cool.
[2939.36] Stephen: Yeah, I also like the titling as well.
[2943.36] Frank: Tony, you've done Gatwick. Strong brand.
[2948.36] Stephen: It's the title of your autumn range.
[2951.36] Stephen: Yeah, exactly.
[2952.36] Frank: Just in time for Christmas.
[2957.36] Curry: Fantastic.
[2959.36] Curry: Stephen, did you end up buying a Santa hat because you thought it was a beanie?
[2963.36] Stephen: It is.
[2966.36] Stephen: I cancelled it because I sort of had a bubble which would drive me nuts.
[2970.36] Stephen: I'm waiting to see if there are a wider range of shirt options.
[2973.36] Stephen: I don't think the world needs to see me in a woman's running top.
[2977.36] Stephen: I think that would look bad.
[2980.36] Curry: Skin-tied look, we all want it.
[2982.36] Curry: Skin-tied look with emphasis on the gut.
[2985.36] Curry: Oh, yeah.
[2986.36] Curry: Show all those nice curves.
[2992.36] Curry: So what has everybody's plans come out?
[2995.36] Curry: Who is going and doing something?
[2998.36] Curry: We've got some exciting plans at least.
[3000.36] Curry: I haven't checked the weather.
[3002.36] Curry: There's a couple of reasonable days mixed in amongst the rain and winds.
[3008.63] Stephen: Looks like this weekend might be a bit better, but I just don't trust the forecast.
[3012.63] Frank: Well, I am going to Duxbury again on Saturday.
[3018.63] Frank: I'm mixing another live stream.
[3022.63] Frank: That is my plan for the weekend.
[3024.63] Stephen: Who shall you be viewing?
[3028.63] Frank: The Red Arrows are back from Kanakistan.
[3034.63] Frank: This is going to be their last UK show of the season,
[3039.63] Frank: and also the first UK show for quite a while this year since they've been out in Canada.
[3045.63] Frank: Celebrating 100 years of the Royal Canadian Air Force.
[3054.63] Frank: Do you think they're going to change their aircraft?
[3058.63] Frank: They are definitely planning on it, but they're talking about...
[3063.63] Frank: Don't get me started.
[3066.63] Frank: They will have to, but the way they're going about it at the moment,
[3071.63] Frank: I suspect it won't happen anytime soon.
[3074.63] Stephen: I know they've been flying the same thing for a very long time.
[3078.63] Stephen: I'm surprised that they're still fully airworthy with a ready supply of spare parts.
[3084.63] Frank: The benefit is that they're using one that the rest of the RAF have stopped using.
[3091.63] Frank: They were the original trainer, weren't they?
[3094.63] Frank: T1.
[3096.63] Frank: Whereas everyone else has updated to get fancier software and hardware and everything.
[3101.63] Frank: They're still pretty much analog.
[3107.63] Jack: Are they complaining that they won't really be the Red Arrows,
[3112.63] Jack: and that it's going to have gyros doing all their flying?
[3116.63] Jack: Yeah, they'll just put it in Mission Planner and have a cuppa.
[3119.63] Jack: Boo-hiss and winch.
[3121.63] Frank: If Andy is in the chat, Andy would have lots to say,
[3125.63] Frank: because I know he's a big follower of the Red Arrows and all the intricate details.
[3132.63] Frank: But I think he's also said before, because he's looked into it a lot more than I have,
[3138.63] Frank: that they prefer the older one because the analogness of it means they can fly in the closer formation,
[3150.63] Frank: whereas the newer hardware and the newer software is a bit of a shout.
[3153.63] Frank: Yeah, collision avoidance starts beeping all the time.
[3156.63] Frank: Exactly, and tries to stabilize things when you don't want it to stabilize things.
[3160.63] Curry: You can do a Tesla thing and slam the brakes on when you don't want it to.
[3163.63] Frank: Stop trying to kill me, Tesla!
[3165.63] Frank: Exactly. I think...
[3167.63] Stephen: I have to do a special key combo, like an army code to enter manual mode every time you take off or something.
[3174.63] Frank: Yeah.
[3176.63] Frank: But they're talking about getting a new one that's...
[3180.63] Frank: They want it to be...
[3182.63] Frank: It's like this modular thing where they've got two sets of wings for every fuselage.
[3187.63] Frank: They've got the trainer wing and they've got the attack wing,
[3190.63] Frank: and any moment when we go to war, they can unscrew the trainer wing and attach an attack wing,
[3197.63] Frank: which sounds like a lot of connectors.
[3200.63] Stephen: I think if anyone's hoping our Air Force is going to make a serious war contribution in the near future,
[3205.63] Stephen: they might be optimistic.
[3206.63] Stephen: A lot of people manage to get their next generation planes out just in time for swarms of very cheap drones to become utterly destructive.
[3215.63] Frank: I just think for the cost of over-engineering and a fuselage to be able to swap the wings on it,
[3221.63] Frank: just buy two fuselages, it sounds better.
[3225.63] Frank: But hey, what do I know?
[3230.1] Stephen: Well, I don't know. Maybe they're just not as worried about wings falling off as you are.
[3234.1] Frank: Well, I'm not worried about wings falling off.
[3235.1] Frank: I'm just worried about the expense of making things modular that shouldn't be.
[3241.1] Curry: True.
[3243.1] Curry: What's Jack waving about? What's the frame, Jack?
[3246.1] Jack: I've been doing a bit of 3D printing.
[3250.1] Jack: Do you remember I was saying I was trying to...
[3253.1] Jack: I've got a 20x20 ESC, but the mountain hulls are not M3.
[3259.1] Stephen: Never are on 20x20s, they're M2.
[3262.1] Jack: They're M2, aren't they?
[3264.1] Jack: Yeah, but I need it to be M3.
[3267.1] Jack: Why?
[3269.1] Jack: Is the frames M3?
[3272.1] Stephen: You just put inserts in. M3, M2 inserts, no?
[3279.61] Stephen: You can get push nuts, can't you? You push through and they take an M2 and that's what I used to do.
[3287.61] Stephen: On the frame, so you have inserts into the carbon.
[3290.61] Stephen: I've gotten some. My B2 FPV used to sell them.
[3293.61] Stephen: You'd push them in and it's a nut with a push nut, right?
[3299.61] Stephen: So you push it into an M3 hole and then it's threaded for M2.
[3304.61] Jack: Yeah, if I haven't screwed this by trying to widen it, then I'll adjust it.
[3312.61] Jack: But the trouble is, is that then I've got a M2.5 with no grommets for a flight controller.
[3321.61] Stephen: What are you building though? You buried the lead, Jack. Tell us what you're building.
[3325.61] Jack: It's a 3D printed. It's done by someone called HeliBoy.
[3329.61] Jack: And it's a little old design, which is a 2-inch little mini fun flyer.
[3337.61] Jack: Cute.
[3338.61] Curry: It's 3D printed. Can't you just change the hole size and print it again?
[3343.95] Stephen: Oh, that's all. No.
[3347.95] Stephen: You could just get a soldering iron and just go boop.
[3350.95] Jack: 3D printed.
[3352.95] Jack: I think I probably screwed the EFC board.
[3358.95] Jack: Hopefully not.
[3360.95] Jack: Why do you screw it?
[3362.95] Stephen: It's usually okay. They kind of expect people to put a bit of abuse around those holes so they don't run a lot of traces except for the ground near them, usually.
[3375.95] Stephen: I mean, there's always one that does it wrong, but you bloody hear about them because people are always like, why is my stat bolt so hot? That's unusual.
[3385.95] Jack: I know. I do live in absolute terror.
[3390.95] Jack: They put a lovely white silk screen around it and you kind of think, hmm, but those fats are awfully close.
[3400.95] Jack: I don't know. I don't know how I feel about it. It just feels wrong.
[3404.95] Stephen: That probably means it's all right.
[3408.95] Jack: Okay, we'll plug it. I'll solder an XC60 on and we'll see if we'll get any smoke and death.
[3416.95] Jack: Banner, banner, banner, banner.
[3420.95] Jack: Yep.
[3421.95] Jack: There we are.
[3423.95] Jack: And I broke my USB bin as well.
[3430.95] Frank: USB bin?
[3432.95] Frank: Yeah, I've got.
[3433.95] Frank: USB connected.
[3436.95] Jack: No, I've got a bin that your wife and it automatically opens.
[3442.95] Jack: I fitted a little charge circuit.
[3446.95] Jack: So instead of taking triple AA batteries, it takes a rechargeable cell so I can recharge my bin by type C.
[3459.95] Jack: But you broke it.
[3461.95] Jack: Yeah, a bit wet.
[3464.95] Jack: Nothing's jack roof, unfortunately.
[3466.95] Jack: I wish it was.
[3468.95] Stephen: I'm sure you've managed to fix it. It sounds like a pretty simple circuit.
[3472.95] Jack: Well, I've been drawing it out on the old 3D printer hotbed.
[3479.95] Stephen: Any projects on your side, Frank?
[3483.95] Frank: There's a few.
[3486.95] Frank: I mean, my biggest project this weekend is my car is having its own OT on Monday and it's shedded parts and drunk oil in the past few days.
[3497.95] Frank: So I'm not slimmed down.
[3500.95] Frank: I made my shopping.
[3502.95] Stephen: Got a shopping. Oh, dear.
[3505.95] Stephen: It was a bit challenging, I remember, when we were at Dronefest.
[3508.95] Stephen: I remember you babying a little bit at the time.
[3512.95] Frank: Yeah. Well, yeah, I'd fixed it for a while.
[3515.95] Frank: Or had it fixed or combinations there.
[3518.95] Frank: But it's it's been really good.
[3521.95] Frank: And then literally since last Saturday, bits have been falling off and it's been making weird noises.
[3528.95] Frank: I don't think it's.
[3531.95] Stephen: It's trying to tell you it's ready to retire.
[3534.95] Frank: Yeah, I think it might be.
[3535.95] Frank: But I need to fix my bicycle before Monday.
[3543.03] Frank: Oh, yeah.
[3544.03] Frank: Ah, chain.
[3546.03] Frank: Yes, I still haven't changed the chain.
[3549.03] Stephen: There we go.
[3550.03] Stephen: Exciting.
[3552.03] Stephen: I've I did buy a twiglet frame, but that's all I've got.
[3558.03] Stephen: Yeah, I saw those this.
[3563.03] Stephen: Remember, beta FPV were doing these tiny little frames a while ago.
[3568.03] Stephen: The twig and the twig tank and the twig mutant.
[3573.03] Stephen: Well, I kind of felt like building another two and a half inch one.
[3576.03] Stephen: So I got the twiglet, which is a two and a half inch.
[3578.03] Stephen: And I found it on AliExpress for £2.70.
[3582.03] Stephen: So I thought, well, we'll grab one of those before they're gone.
[3585.03] Stephen: So I'm going to give that a go.
[3589.03] Stephen: Yeah, that's something to do when it when the rain comes in.
[3593.03] Jack: Yeah.
[3594.03] Jack: Well, I'm pretty sure my batteries and I go to charge my one cells are all just going to puff and explode.
[3602.03] Stephen: I'm waiting to see footage of that flight with your exceedingly interesting spicy pillow.
[3610.03] Frank: We need something to fly this mighty pillow.
[3614.03] Stephen: Well, probably the little plastic copter that can easily melt.
[3619.03] Stephen: That's probably a perfect match for a battery that's probably going to catch fire.
[3624.03] Stephen: Really?
[3626.03] Stephen: Oh, yeah, perfect match.
[3629.03] Stephen: Time mate.
[3630.03] Stephen: Time mate.
[3631.03] Stephen: Don't worry.
[3632.03] Stephen: Get a nice high KV motors and just gun it.
[3634.03] Jack: I don't think the standoffs will take.
[3637.03] Curry: One at the bottom and one at the top and you've got an X8 flying battery.
[3643.03] Jack: Perfect.
[3649.03] Stephen: Alrighty.
[3650.03] Stephen: We are at that point again with our wonderful, wonderful Patreons scrolling at the bottom of the screen.
[3656.03] Stephen: Thank you very much to everyone who donates the show.
[3660.03] Stephen: One of these days, we will read all your names out with that error, but it might be tonight.
[3665.03] Stephen: Yes.
[3666.03] Stephen: Thank you.
[3667.03] Stephen: You're amazing.
[3668.03] Stephen: And you keep the show going and make it possible for Frank to do awesome things like create very creative hats.
[3676.03] Frank: Get the hat.
[3678.03] Stephen: Get ready for an LDO Christmas.
[3680.03] Stephen: I know you're out there.
[3682.03] Stephen: You need hats.
[3683.03] Stephen: You need t-shirts.
[3684.03] Stephen: You need to commemorate Gatwick.
[3691.03] Frank: I hope Tony watches to the end.
[3695.03] Jack: Yeah.
[3696.03] Jack: You've been joined by everyone's favourite Carrie Kidden.
[3700.03] Jack: Goodbye.
[3702.03] Jack: Our Lord of Master, Andrew Sash Frank.
[3705.03] Frank: Bye.
[3707.03] Jack: The man with the moustache, Stephen.
[3708.03] Jack: Hey, I was doing a special wave.
[3710.03] Stephen: Not sure what that's about.
[3711.03] Jack: Here we go.
[3713.03] Jack: And I've been right until I fly.
[3715.03] Jack: Thank you.
[3716.03] Jack: And good night.
[3717.03] Jack: God bless you, Patreons.
[3719.03] Jack: Bye.
[3720.03] Jack: See you later.
[3721.03] Jack: Bye.
[3722.03] Jack: Telemetry lost.