=== Let's Drone Out — Episode 484 === Title: LDO 484 - Looking ahead to 2025 (and nepotism) Recorded: 2024-12-05 Hosts: Stephen "Belrik" Howell, Wayne "CurryKitten" Andrews, Jack "Brightontillifly" Nash, Andrew "Frank" Hyams Guest(s): (none recorded) Total audience: 760 Platforms: YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9GgCBbZpxY); SoundCloud (http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/feeds.soundcloud.com/stream/1975458675-letsdroneout-ldo-484-looking-ahead-to-2025.mp3) ===================================== #LetsDroneOut #DronePodcast #Drone #FPV [0.0] Jack: Hello, and you're listening to Let's Drone Out, a special thank you to our lovely patrons [6.28] Jack: that help donate so that we can pay the editor to remove the swear words and silly things [11.36] Jack: we say. [13.0] Jack: Massive thank you to… [14.4] Jack: Carlos Campos! [16.2] Frank: Art Faulkner! [17.88] Frank: Sam Dahmer. [19.68] Frank: On with the show. [20.68] Stephen: Hello and welcome to another episode of Let's Drone Out. [57.62] Stephen: episode 484 for Thursday the 5th of December 2024. [64.42] Stephen: Brought to you this week by everyone's favourite, Curry Kitten. [68.54] Stephen: Hello! [69.54] Stephen: And myself, Stephen. [70.54] Stephen: How long have we been out there? [72.54] Stephen: It's been a quiet week for a lot of us in the UK, suffering as we are at the hands [78.44] Stephen: of some quite relentless lashings from wind and rain. [84.42] Stephen: But there's a few interesting things that we're going to be chatting about this week. [88.5] Stephen: We think so. [89.5] Curry: We are probably wondering where everybody else is. [91.94] Curry: Jack is, I think, a work thing, although I haven't spoken to him personally. [96.3] Curry: Frank was aiming to come on, but he's had a power cut. [99.42] Curry: Tony is playing a game, so he can't be bothered, and Cole is just getting on a plane to get [104.54] Curry: a Swiss passport. [105.86] Curry: It sounds very 007, doesn't it? [107.7] Curry: He's flying to Montreal to get a Swiss passport. [110.54] Curry: I don't quite see it, because Montreal is like French side, but Swiss. [114.06] Curry: Who knows? [115.06] Curry: Weird things. [116.06] Curry: Anyway, we're here. [117.06] Curry: I actually had some flyable days this week, which I wanted to use, but unfortunately my [121.62] Curry: wife has been very poorly, so I didn't get to do anything at all this week other than [126.5] Curry: run up and down stairs with drinks and fetch new boxes of tissues and keep going and get [131.14] Curry: her drugs and things. [133.34] Curry: So that was fun. [135.18] Stephen: Yeah, I've got past my illness, which is why I was kind of hiding away previous weeks. [141.5] Stephen: I went out to do a bunch of training, so I've been slogging into the centre of London and [147.22] Stephen: getting completely exhausted. [148.62] Stephen: I probably will be sick again just from being exposed to so many commuters. [153.86] Stephen: But yeah, I've been learning things, IT-related things, and meeting people in the company [161.66] Stephen: for the first time, who are from the north of England, which is nice to say hi to everyone. [168.18] Stephen: I had a couple of late nights, so a little bit jaded, but hanging in there. [172.9] Stephen: I just noticed my camera is at quite a jaunty angle as well. [176.58] Stephen: I think it may have slid over to the side there. [179.1] Curry: We're all slightly slid over. [181.1] Curry: My OCD is going to keep you about me not being central. [184.86] Stephen: There we are. [185.86] Stephen: Bless the dutch angles there. [188.86] Stephen: I'll be back on straight around. [191.66] Curry: With us two not doing any flying this week, and not particularly amount of news, I think [198.78] Curry: we've got some news, we thought we'd take a look or have a think about what is going [205.42] Curry: to be hot in 2025, and what do we want to do? [209.38] Curry: What do we think is going to be the things to look for? [212.14] Curry: But we're also prepared to answer questions from any of you guys, because we haven't got [218.02] Curry: that much to say. [219.14] Curry: But we're prepared to enter a discussion. [221.86] Curry: No thanks. [222.86] Stephen: Where do you think we're going? [225.34] Stephen: 2025 is an interesting year. [227.54] Stephen: If we look back at where we were in 2015, a lot has changed, a lot has stayed the same. [232.58] Stephen: But by and large, things are in a lot more mature position than they were back then. [238.62] Stephen: So it would be interesting to trace a line through some of those trends and ask where [242.26] Stephen: we're going next. [243.42] Curry: Yeah, it's quite interesting when you think about it in a 10-year thing. [246.98] Curry: I'm trying to think when it really took off, 2015 still felt like you're in very much [253.86] Curry: where people would come up to you and say, this is interesting, what have you built? [256.9] Curry: And they sort of explain it and they say, fantastic, keep going. [260.06] Curry: As opposed to, oi, you with a drone, you can't fly that here. [263.42] Curry: Which is more, today you think, ooh. [265.66] Curry: Did you have OpenTX in 2015? [269.5] Curry: No, I think we had ER9X, which was the predecessor to OpenTX. [280.62] Curry: Jack, I thought you weren't here today. [283.1] Jack: No, it's next week. [285.3] Curry: Ah, this is what happens when I get second-hand notices from Cole. [289.74] Curry: Yeah, I thought Cole was going to work as well. [293.06] Curry: Can't trust him, he's going for a Swiss passport, that could mean anything. [296.9] Jack: I know. [297.94] Jack: No, I'm on this week, I'm not on next week. [301.02] Jack: Ah, well, you're late. [303.5] Jack: I'm very sorry. [304.42] Stephen: Thanks for showing up, mate. [306.74] Stephen: Yeah, so 10 years ago, we were waiting eagerly to see what F R Sky was doing then by the [313.34] Stephen: sound of it and everyone kind of ooh-ing and ooh-ing about proper radio firmware. [317.5] Curry: I think ER9X is still there. [320.42] Curry: I can't quite remember where we were on a timeline because when we started flying FPV, [326.74] Curry: for me it was like 2012 and people that were in the hobby for a little while longer were [332.86] Curry: bringing in really nice Futaba radios and then changing them over to 2.4 and stuff. [343.18] Curry: Most of us jumped onto the Turnigy 9X or one of the clones and then either you fit the [349.14] Curry: free Sky internal thing, which I think Jack did, or you could buy a module. [353.38] Curry: It was so amazing because I flew the 9X for a while with the default FlySky firmware, [359.58] Curry: which was terrible. [361.14] Curry: You didn't know if you were out of range, so you'd just be flying along and then your [364.66] Curry: tricopter would just crash because it's like, I don't know anymore. [371.98] Curry: Flashing it to ER9X and putting in the free Sky module was amazing because you'd fly along [378.46] Curry: and then we'd go, it's like, oh, I'm starting to get out of range. [381.58] Curry: I've got telemetry from the radio. [384.34] Curry: That's amazing. [385.34] Curry: It's like, oh, it's getting further out of range, I should turn around. [389.7] Curry: That was the magic of it. [392.98] Curry: The fact you had this super, because previously, previous to things like ER9X and then OpenTX [401.46] Curry: and now HTX, you didn't have radios that did that. [407.1] Curry: You'd have like, what are you producing? [409.46] Curry: It's like, are you a glider? [411.18] Curry: Are you a helicopter or are you a plane? [413.66] Curry: There was no quadcopter or stuff. [415.66] Curry: Then you say, okay, let's say I'm a glider. [418.42] Curry: It's like, okay, this switch does this, this switch does that. [422.26] Curry: There's no options. [423.26] Curry: It's like, that's a dual rate and this is flaps. [427.22] Curry: When you're trying to put that into a quad where you need mode switches and things, it [431.9] Curry: was- [432.9] Stephen: You want a new configuration? [433.9] Curry: Well, we recommend buying new radio. [438.18] Curry: I think the old sandal brigade would probably still freak out if they saw like, you know, [445.34] Curry: HTX and stuff. [446.34] Curry: They're like, but I'm flying a glider. [448.14] Curry: Where's my glider model? [449.46] Curry: It's literally like, what are you flying? [451.06] Curry: Then you make it by that. [453.7] Stephen: You just kind of moved over ER9X and FOSC, I guess, would have been coming out really [458.9] Stephen: soon off that. [460.98] Stephen: Everything would have been pretty much manual, pretty much analog output, right? [466.74] Stephen: It would be WM for everything. [468.3] Stephen: It looks like in the end, the back end of 2015, you were probably seeing Betaflight [476.26] Stephen: appear. [477.26] Stephen: So, you just moved over from Arduino land into like F1 flight controllers, right? [484.82] Curry: You say Arduino land, for a lot of people that were getting into the hobby around that [489.02] Curry: time, it was the KK board, the original board that was amazing because you could, it was [495.54] Curry: a single board and you could make it fly a tricopter or a quad or a hex. [502.86] Curry: Or you could put a telemetry on it. [506.27] Curry: Well, no, because the original one didn't have a screen. [509.75] Curry: And if you wanted to change the gains, you'd have a screwdriver and you'd turn this thing [514.71] Curry: and that would define how much gain you had. [518.99] Curry: How much did you get on that? [521.71] Curry: There was a filter, they would say, essentially. [524.95] Stephen: Yeah, that's what you had to look forward to when you went off the KK, I guess. [528.71] Stephen: You were like, oh, well. [529.71] Curry: Yeah. [530.71] Curry: I remember at that point, the first quads I had, I had a great big receiver in it and [536.11] Curry: each individual BWM thing. [538.43] Curry: And it wasn't for a while that the DR4 came out and you could, I think you had to possibly [547.35] Curry: bind it with this little... [549.63] Curry: Jumper. [551.15] Curry: Jumper. [552.15] Curry: Jumper. [553.15] Curry: Yeah, jumper. [554.15] Curry: And that would put it into PPM mode and it's like, that's amazing, I only have to use one [558.19] Curry: servo connection for all my channels. [560.87] Curry: But it was essentially just PWM in a row. [565.59] Curry: It was a while until we got into S bus and stuff. [571.99] Curry: And I can't remember when beta flight first came out, because I started out basically... [576.23] Stephen: I can't see the original 2.0. [580.15] Stephen: But 2.1 looks like October 2015. [583.83] Stephen: So maybe there were releases on a different repo before beta flight 2.1. [588.91] Curry: Well, what happened is after base flight, everybody jumped to clean flight because clean [593.43] Curry: flight, which Dominic did, was brilliant and had all these changes in it. [597.99] Curry: And when beta flight first came out, it was very much this is beta. [602.75] Curry: And it literally used to have releases every couple of days, it was like a new release, [606.55] Curry: it was just laying out like this. [608.59] Curry: So I didn't jump for it for a long time, because it seemed like it was slightly unstable [614.95] Curry: until it got to a point where, actually, stuff has stopped flowing back into clean flight [619.75] Curry: and it's now going into beta flight. [621.59] Curry: So it kind of just took over it. [623.63] Curry: And at that point, it stopped doing weekly releases and things. [627.71] Stephen: Yeah, so I guess mid 2014, literally, you know, 10 years ago, you would have been looking [633.87] Stephen: at clean flight, clean flight 1.0 would have come out last last month. [640.19] Stephen: And you've been looking at clean flight 1.1 that gave you GPS. [645.87] Stephen: I'm not sure what how GPS would have worked. [648.15] Stephen: It might have been quite exciting GPS at that point, I guess, but it would have been in [654.59] Stephen: there at least. [655.59] Curry: Yeah, it might have been in there because where where base flight came over from multi [662.07] Curry: we multi we had loads of like exciting features and they had all sorts of GPS and position [668.35] Curry: hold and stuff. [670.51] Curry: And that originally like base flight was multi we onto the STM 32 chip. [678.31] Curry: And I think I think they put it all over there wasn't sort of like, until later when beta [682.27] Curry: flight came on, it's like, we don't need this GPS stuff, shut out, let's let's work on just [686.95] Curry: getting it working for quads and making it really good. [689.79] Curry: And it's slowly then come back again. [691.91] Stephen: So that would have been like f1 and comparable stuff right with base flight, and then f1 [697.59] Stephen: was dropped went to f3 f4 f7 appeared f3 was dropped. [703.55] Stephen: We're now got to the point where I think f4 11 is getting a little bit like people squinting [710.07] Stephen: sideways at it. [711.87] Stephen: And there's just been a notice that if you're going to try and run a hexacopter or an octocopter, [717.91] Stephen: please stop using f4 and f7. [720.63] Stephen: Because that's just not good for the high number of motor outputs anymore, because you've [726.55] Stephen: got to jump through all these hoops to get all the motor outputs working on those and [731.71] Stephen: have like the speed that you need to do all the fancy features and to do the high D shot [737.79] Stephen: rates and to do all the low latency like pit processing because they're, they're now like [743.67] Stephen: hyper optimizing those targets to get them running all the filters. [749.11] Stephen: So we're starting to see things like push ever closer to you probably need an h7 after [755.47] Stephen: all these years. [756.47] Stephen: But that's not that's not a bad run, considering your prop that f4 and f3 was probably coming [761.59] Stephen: out like 2016 or so they've been on the market a while. [768.55] Stephen: But yeah, yeah, [769.55] Curry: it's kind of interesting, I suppose that the sort of the targets not changed. [775.71] Curry: It's like this x with four motors, but it's like the, the hardware to run it, mostly because [782.15] Curry: I guess the filtering and the the head loop and the whole D shot thing is like, we need [788.03] Curry: more power. [789.03] Stephen: Yeah, well, they're just trying to reduce the jitter to like lower and lower levels, [794.75] Stephen: much like kind of the LRS has done on the receivers where they're like, it used to be [798.55] Stephen: tolerable that one signal would come in plus a few milliseconds and the other one would [804.19] Stephen: back a few milliseconds and now people are like, yeah, we're down like way below the [808.67] Stephen: microsecond threshold now in terms of the jitter from event to event, which makes everything [814.91] Stephen: smoother and truer overall, but just pushes the hardware that much harder. [819.79] Curry: It's kind of interesting how many people this affects who are like, I want to fly my hex [824.55] Curry: and octo on my bit of light f4 board. [828.67] Stephen: Yeah, I mean, you can do that just don't upgrade it, you know, I mean, there's nothing to stop [832.95] Stephen: people from just running the older versions, you know, if if you are happy running your [838.43] Stephen: clean flight release from 2015, then run your clean flight release from 2015, right? [844.91] Stephen: But if you want to be completely obsessive about it and get, you know, the best the tightest [851.79] Stephen: experience then you know, it's probably time to get on the upgrade train, which is kind [857.03] Stephen: of true for more or less all parts of this hobby and always has been I guess. [863.87] Curry: So going into next year, it's it's tricky to think what the the beta flight enhancements [872.43] Curry: would be because they've got up to a very sort of optimal sort of way of doing things [877.47] Curry: at least for five inch quarters. [880.71] Stephen: So is it just more, more faster, more faster, but also altitude hold and position hold are [888.15] Stephen: coming in. [889.15] Stephen: I saw that coming up. [890.15] Stephen: Yeah. [891.15] Stephen: Yeah. [892.15] Stephen: And they're going to be doing that without a mag as well. [893.55] Stephen: So GPS based. [895.99] Stephen: And I think if you've got a barrow, that kind of accelerator accelerometer plus barrow based [903.95] Stephen: sort of kind of position hold that might drift a bit. [907.23] Stephen: So getting to a world where now, even if you've got a freestyle quad, you get into [912.79] Stephen: a fail safe, it's going to have the ability to just sort of lock itself in place. [918.87] Stephen: And then, you know, hopefully you can kind of walk yourself around the other side of [923.55] Stephen: that building and wave your radio and get the signal back and carry on, which would [928.59] Jack: be quite nice. [931.67] Jack: The Boris B episode of beat a fly. [935.43] Jack: We spoke to him on, uh, it said eight, it just says eight years ago. [944.71] Jack: So there you go. [946.71] Jack: Us. [947.71] Jack: Yeah. [948.71] Curry: When he first started, because he didn't happen to speak because he's not, he's not connected [952.99] Curry: with a bit anymore. [953.99] Curry: Is he? [954.99] Jack: I don't know. [955.99] Jack: Yeah. [956.99] Jack: I don't think he's doing it anymore. [958.99] Jack: Uh, last time I checked in with him, he was, um, this on my channel, the, um, sort of [967.71] Jack: bonus chat to him after I knew he, I knew he had a child just when he first started [974.11] Jack: beat a fly. [975.11] Jack: And I don't, I don't think he flies anymore. [977.59] Jack: I, he hasn't flown for years. [981.5] Curry: You would have also seen, um, if you've been paying attention to YouTube, a bit of wing [987.26] Curry: stuff would be a flight. [988.66] Curry: I saw the other day, uh, they did the RTH and landing, which worked very well, but it [995.18] Curry: is very dependent upon your area. [997.66] Curry: Cause it literally comes around in a circle descends and that's 20 meters. [1002.38] Curry: It flies out, comes around and tries to land. [1005.18] Curry: Of course, depending what's surrounding you at this point could be interesting. [1009.78] Curry: If you've got trees or buildings or anywhere, it's like clunk. [1012.62] Curry: Hopefully there's, there's something to say, just, just keep circling. [1016.18] Curry: And when I get this radio back, I'll take it. [1018.42] Stephen: I think there's a loiter mode instead of the landing one. [1021.1] Curry: Yeah. [1022.1] Curry: Yes. [1023.1] Curry: Brilliant. [1024.1] Stephen: If you're in an open area, but I want impressive performance through the trees. [1027.22] Stephen: If you've seen a lemons videos, uh, that's lemon with an eye, um, he's got some footage [1033.9] Stephen: of him doing this very slow, kind of almost like prop hanging flight FPV style with a wing [1040.3] Stephen: through some trees and then sort of gunning it a bit more in some other videos as well. [1045.38] Stephen: Um, so yeah, it seems to be responding pretty well. [1049.18] Stephen: I think he's recorded it all like with an O3 with stabilization because it's weirdly [1053.74] Stephen: smooth as well. [1055.74] Curry: It's weirdly smooth. [1056.74] Curry: It's either he's, he's managing to fly with absolute zero wind or there's some sort of [1061.9] Curry: stabilization because even if, and he's using quite a small wing, which should bounce around [1067.7] Curry: quite a bit really. [1070.1] Stephen: He did make a big thing about like not just having servo control with a bit of stabilization, [1075.58] Stephen: but like aggressively like paid controlling the servers as well. [1080.02] Stephen: Um, so there's some hope that it might be a wee bit smoother than, than we've seen in [1085.9] Stephen: some wing implementations. [1087.7] Stephen: It's going to be interesting to see how it compares to what you and I have, right? [1091.54] Curry: It will be interesting because there's only certain amount you can do with servo because [1095.06] Curry: it's like, it's not like you've got a motor up and down. [1098.26] Stephen: So yeah, it's going to be interesting because you're all of a sudden going to have a lot [1105.14] Stephen: more targets because the, one of the strengths of beta flight is just that huge hardware [1110.9] Stephen: support. [1111.9] Stephen: I know if you know, they kind of hold out for the, the more powerful targets with more [1115.82] Stephen: IO and you know, it's more limited selection and you can't remap stuff quite as easily. [1122.74] Stephen: Whereas beta flight, you can run it on any, anything that's been made in, in the last [1128.46] Stephen: like eight years, pretty much, and you can remap pins around. [1132.18] Stephen: So you could take something that's designed for a quad and you know, grab that motor pin [1136.54] Stephen: and make it a servo and grab that led pin and make it a servo and do all that stuff [1141.46] Stephen: quite easily. [1143.26] Stephen: So it could be interesting, it'd be interesting. [1146.46] Stephen: We shall have to wait and see because I've only seen them on videos so far. [1150.18] Stephen: I haven't seen people who would fly wings on other firmware, give it a go, which would [1154.5] Stephen: be the, the more telling data point, right? [1157.62] Curry: Yeah. [1158.62] Curry: I mean, that's, that's, that's the fun thing though. [1161.34] Curry: If you've got, uh, one good thing about beta flight, as you say, any old flight controller [1166.46] Curry: from years ago, we could just grab and stick in a wing, potentially, as opposed to INAB [1170.94] Curry: where it's like, Oh, I haven't got this particular target. [1173.06] Curry: That's a shame. [1174.06] Curry: I can't use that. [1175.06] Curry: She's good. [1176.42] Stephen: I've got some, some little wings and also you can get like AIOs as well, like CRUDI AIOs [1184.54] Stephen: where you might've blown like one of the motor outputs and just pop it in a wing would be [1189.94] Stephen: kind of interesting. [1190.94] Stephen: Yeah. [1193.6] Stephen: Yeah. [1194.6] Stephen: That certainly works. [1195.6] Stephen: Yeah. [1196.6] Stephen: That'd be fun. [1197.6] Stephen: Yeah. [1198.6] Stephen: And then over on the FPV front, um, I saw, um, Stinger Swarm looking at open IPC. [1203.08] Stephen: It feels like there's not, not a massive huge rush of attention on that, but it's, [1208.8] Stephen: it's keeping going. [1210.36] Curry: It, it, it had that big rush when, um, RunCam bought something out and it seemed to, it [1217.88] Curry: seems to keep going, hasn't it? [1219.2] Curry: So you've got the Emacs stuff and I know Emacs, uh, are working on some sort of Google module, [1226.84] Curry: which I think is going to be the killer app for that sort of thing. [1230.88] Curry: Oh yeah. [1231.88] Curry: So as I found out, it's now got, um, the, like a proper MSP OSD with, uh, like basically [1239.72] Curry: a stick menu. [1241.08] Curry: So through that you can go and change channels, change all the camera settings. [1245.76] Curry: That's pretty cool. [1247.2] Curry: And the things they're working on at the moment are things like, um, a sort of thing where [1252.82] Curry: the receiving end looks at the RSSI of the signal is getting all the other way around [1258.72] Curry: and it, it just a bit rate because of it. [1262.2] Curry: So that's similar to like what walks now will do is like, Oh, you're going far away and [1266.92] Curry: my signals crap. [1268.12] Curry: Let's reduce the bit rate walks now to the, like, let's reduce it to here. [1271.72] Curry: And you just look at the middle bit and everything else is rubbish, which we'll put it more on [1275.52] Curry: parity with that stuff, which is pretty cool. [1278.56] Stephen: Because you were saying previously you had to kind of decide if you were flying long [1281.96] Stephen: range or if you were flying close up freestyle and set it to begin with before you took off [1287.36] Stephen: or you'd end up with a bad experience. [1289.4] Stephen: Right. [1290.76] Curry: Well, yeah, I mean, the bit rate on it is not particularly high. [1294.52] Curry: You can, you can set it to like five megabits, 10 megabits, and you get a pretty good [1301.28] Curry: picture, but there's no, there's no like difference as you fly out. [1306.44] Curry: So if you would go far instead of it starting to become like a little bit speckly and sort [1311.96] Curry: of reducing the bit rate, it will just like, Oh, I'll start freezing a bit and you just [1317.16] Curry: get bits of it. [1318.16] Curry: And then it's like, Oh, better turn around at this point. [1319.88] Curry: So it's all going very wrong. [1322.68] Curry: But some what, what it doesn't have this is I need to, I need to get my head round Ruby [1327.16] Curry: as well, because what it doesn't have, it doesn't have the two way situation where it [1333.2] Curry: tries to like, do it, do it like, resend the frames if it's missing some information. [1338.96] Curry: I'm hearing that Ruby does something clever with it and might be able to add to that. [1344.96] Stephen: We'll find out. [1345.96] Stephen: I think the author of Ruby suit seems to be pretty cagey about exactly what's going on [1350.72] Stephen: and not willing to open source it. [1353.2] Stephen: But I heard it like a year ago that he was just keeping it private for a while and then [1358.4] Stephen: he'd share it. [1359.4] Stephen: But that doesn't seem to be happening, I don't think. [1362.32] Curry: This is what I keep getting. [1363.32] Curry: I keep getting people commenting on the video saying you must try Ruby, you must try Ruby [1366.32] Curry: out. [1367.32] Curry: And I've avoided it because I know it's this one guy. [1371.16] Curry: And we know that open, open HD suffered because one guy that was in the project suddenly left. [1378.4] Curry: And they lost half their like binary assets because they were stored on some weird server [1383.16] Curry: somewhere instead of GitHub. [1384.88] Curry: And I don't like putting my eggs into a basket where it's like, this could all just crash [1388.8] Curry: and die. [1389.8] Stephen: And I hope open HD does get their hardware out. [1392.96] Stephen: They seem to be very open about what they're doing and there's no kind of eyebrow raised [1400.36] Stephen: over potential ties with war efforts and things. [1405.76] Stephen: So it would be nice to have that side represented as well. [1411.2] Stephen: But yeah, it's clear that the Chinese vendors have seen an opportunity with an open IBC [1416.72] Stephen: and jumped on it. [1417.72] Stephen: And we can't deny them the jump they've got there. [1422.64] Stephen: It's good to see them making progress. [1424.72] Curry: Yeah, as we see if if he seems doing one, then you know, it's, it's in the it's in now [1430.56] Curry: cheap and cheerful. [1431.56] Curry: Yeah, I can't quite get my hands on one yet. [1434.72] Curry: And hopefully we'll start see a few different cameras come out as well. [1437.44] Jack: It's looking really promising. [1439.08] Curry: It is if they get like the small email export would, I think it's a bit of a game changer [1446.32] Curry: because it's literally a single board, you connect it in some woop or two big, you put [1451.36] Curry: five volts into it, it's good to go. [1455.36] Curry: The only dodgy thing on that was the the pre release versions, they sent the reviewers [1461.2] Curry: as a 3d printed camera case. [1464.2] Curry: And that's not very tight on the screw. [1466.52] Curry: So hence my was out of focus. [1468.72] Curry: And to focus it, you know, you've got that locking focus nut, you've got this much out. [1475.96] Curry: And I'm like trying to hold it whilst trying to turn and it's like it's impossible and [1479.96] Curry: looking through the goggles, trying to like where's the okay, I've got the focus point [1483.72] Curry: now tighten that without moving that it's like, it's hideous. [1487.32] Curry: It's really, really difficult. [1488.84] Stephen: You might as well just give up on the locking nut and just put a drop of light CA on on [1493.2] Stephen: the on the lens thread and call it good. [1495.08] Stephen: It's not bad. [1496.08] Jack: If you smash your lens and need to change it, you're like, oh, it's a 3d printed shell [1502.0] Stephen: anyway. [1503.0] Stephen: Yeah. [1504.0] Stephen: Yeah. [1505.0] Jack: Cut it out. [1506.0] Jack: Cut it out. [1507.0] Jack: Yeah. [1508.04] Jack: Um, what I used to do is I used to have like a focus chart on the wall at radio say, you [1513.84] Jack: know, like all those lines converging and then I would, uh, get it in focus, then loosen [1521.16] Jack: it a bit, wind the, the, the ring down onto that and then gently tighten it back up. [1529.52] Jack: Just cinch it slightly. [1530.92] Jack: And then it cinches itself as it follows. [1535.0] Stephen: I had it focused in here and I'd like focus on something that's like, you know, the other [1541.16] Stephen: side of the room and be like, yeah, yeah, it's definitely in focus. [1543.48] Stephen: I'd take off and realize I couldn't see like, I could see the grass right in front of the [1548.68] Stephen: quad. [1549.68] Curry: Yeah. [1550.68] Curry: I'm, I'm like using my garden and there's like a brick wall and I'm like, that's a good [1555.36] Curry: sort of 20 feet away. [1557.2] Curry: So that's probably good. [1559.76] Stephen: You've got to focus against something that's that kind of middle distance because if you [1563.24] Stephen: get it so it's beautifully in focus at sort of two to three meters away, there's a very [1568.72] Stephen: real risk that when you take off, you're just looking at a giant blur and some very sharp [1574.32] Stephen: blades of grass immediately in front of you. [1578.72] Curry: So that's a warm for Tony. [1580.16] Curry: As long as Tony can see his grass and it's beautiful, he'll be happy. [1585.76] Frank: This episode was recorded in front of a live online audience, downloaded and edited to [1589.88] Frank: make sense when it's played audio only, censored to please the iTunes people, hosted on the [1594.72] Frank: internet, forwarded through to your podcast provider, downloaded, playing on your device [1598.92] Frank: and is now playing in your ears. [1600.84] Frank: All thanks to our Patreons. [1603.24] Frank: Consider joining them and you'll also get other online benefits. [1606.52] Frank: Find out more at patreon.com forward slash. [1609.6] Frank: Let's drone out. [1610.6] Stephen: Steven, I saw you're posting killer quads. [1613.68] Stephen: Are you sealing up? [1614.68] Stephen: I have no idea what I'm talking about. [1616.68] Stephen: Lights out. [1618.16] Jack: Are you selling up? [1620.36] Jack: Is someone pretending to be you telling everything? [1623.16] Curry: Did you make a post on killer quads? [1625.76] Stephen: Can't remember. [1627.24] Jack: I'm not. [1628.16] Jack: No, I have no idea. [1629.32] Jack: He's been ill. [1630.24] Jack: So forgive the dementia. [1632.48] Jack: He might have like had a bit of a fever during. [1635.48] Jack: Telling up what? [1637.72] Jack: Selling your drone stuff. [1639.96] Stephen: I was just just I was just bored. [1643.28] Stephen: I haven't been flying for a while. [1646.0] Stephen: Been doing other stuff, but, um, yeah, I can't remember sparing a little bit of light serve [1657.36] Stephen: versus all the people that serve was trying to help who were busy, like shouting splitter [1664.36] Stephen: traitor and so on. [1665.36] Stephen: It was all a bit too much drama. [1667.12] Stephen: It was just like, oh, really can't be bothered to deal with this. [1672.16] Stephen: It's one of the things that makes me feel like just get giving up a lot of the time [1675.96] Stephen: when I see that, because it's just such a drama factory at times. [1680.52] Stephen: This hobby. [1681.52] Stephen: I love it, but we're own worst enemies. [1684.08] Stephen: You know, we've got enough to worry about with government legislation and just becomes [1687.88] Stephen: a bit. [1688.88] Curry: It seems to say there's any hobby like, you know, when you were, well, when I was a kid, [1697.2] Curry: it's like, we like playing games, but the spectrum people versus the Commodore 64 people [1702.12] Curry: and has the same things on the PC game at the site. [1709.08] Stephen: No one likes it. [1710.08] Stephen: You'll never be a PC game when the first PlayStation came out and everyone's like that's not proper [1715.88] Stephen: video game. [1716.88] Stephen: That's not Nintendo. [1717.88] Stephen: It's not, it's not say rubbish, rubbish, rubbish. [1721.12] Jack: Yeah. [1722.12] Stephen: Yeah. [1723.12] Stephen: It's much the same. [1725.12] Jack: Um, I love, I love that big gray PlayStation. [1731.08] Curry: It was the best anniversary PS5 broke for just a grand. [1737.52] Curry: Yeah. [1738.52] Curry: You can't get one. [1740.52] Jack: No, rather not. [1742.0] Jack: I know. [1743.0] Jack: And apparently like the, the, the 30 year special intro isn't permanent on it. [1749.28] Jack: It's only for as long as they're doing it. [1753.96] Jack: And I'm like, Oh God, because it's the boot startups, the same, you know, the Sony present [1762.04] Curry: but you can change it on the record. [1765.36] Curry: It popped up. [1766.36] Curry: It's like, it's our 30th anniversary. [1767.96] Curry: What style would you like? [1768.96] Curry: And you can have this one, two people get the slightly, it's like a rotating sort of [1773.76] Stephen: low poly PlayStation logo or something that came in the original one anyway. [1786.66] Curry: Talking of slightly controversial news, Steven, you were talking about Rotor right before [1790.38] Curry: we came on that. [1791.38] Stephen: Right. [1792.38] Stephen: Okay. [1793.38] Stephen: So I was going to do the 10 years on, but let, yeah, let's, um, let's jump sideways. [1798.1] Stephen: Um, they wrote a riot, as people will know, was bought by red cat and red cat is a portfolio [1806.98] Stephen: company where they have a lot of drone related enterprises and they, um, I put them all under [1814.42] Stephen: one roof. [1815.42] Stephen: Um, and from fat shark wrote a riot, um, I think teal there as well on unusual machines [1822.82] Stephen: was the latest one, which lists, uh, drew Campbell on the, uh, executive team drew Camden. [1830.9] Stephen: Sorry. [1831.9] Stephen: I should say Mr. Mr. Guy liner himself. [1834.66] Stephen: Um, and there was a New York post-article which caught my attention last week announcing [1841.98] Stephen: that happy days for unusual machines as their chairs surged more than a hundred percent [1848.82] Stephen: following, uh, the spawn of, uh, Donald Trump joining the advisory board, uh, the imaginatively [1858.98] Stephen: named Donald Trump Jr. [1861.54] Stephen: Um, yeah, great. [1867.06] Curry: So if you didn't like, if you didn't dislike unusual machines enough for building war drones, [1873.84] Curry: now you've got extra reason to dislike them. [1876.52] Curry: You've got one of the top spawners there. [1879.16] Stephen: I think probably the only man who looks more punchable than Piers Morgan. [1883.0] Stephen: I mean, he's really, he's gone for it. [1887.0] Stephen: That's quite an achievement. [1888.56] Stephen: Yeah. [1889.56] Stephen: Well, I mean, you've got to factor his dad in as well, I suppose he's got good at genetics [1894.2] Stephen: there. [1895.2] Stephen: Um, but yeah, so I don't know what this means about the direction of the company as a whole, [1899.56] Stephen: but it's clear that they've got a massive sort of media shot in the arm there. [1903.96] Stephen: And now their name is going to be plastered everywhere courtesy of, of Donnie. [1909.64] Curry: Um, well, it means they're going to get huge contracts, doesn't it? [1914.36] Curry: Because it's like, uh, dad, can my company get me useful things? [1921.32] Stephen: That's not the sole reason they're getting massive contracts. [1924.44] Stephen: One of the massive reasons that they would get them anyway is that his Donnie's father, [1930.32] Stephen: Donnie senior is threatening to put a tariff on anything from China. [1935.28] Stephen: So what, what, what he's done there is seeing the opportunity to penalize the competition [1940.46] Stephen: who has better technology and a more popular product and a kind of prop up the us drone [1946.44] Stephen: industry there. [1947.52] Stephen: So people are going to be buying anything that's made in the us because it's going [1953.28] Stephen: to all of a sudden look relatively cheaper and better value than the Chinese competition. [1960.08] Stephen: And so yeah, kind of aligning yourself with something here that, that stands to benefit [1964.12] Stephen: from those tariffs is, is a smart move. [1966.72] Stephen: I'm sure. [1967.72] Stephen: Especially if your dad is the one that's going to be standing behind those tariffs, there's [1973.12] Stephen: nothing as traditional as nepotism. [1975.04] Curry: Yeah. [1976.04] Curry: As we had earlier this week, when, when current president decided to pardon his son for all [1981.88] Curry: the wrongdoings, which may or may not happen during the last 11 years, which is oddly specific. [1988.12] Stephen: Yeah. [1990.94] Stephen: Yeah. [1991.94] Stephen: It's spectacular. [1992.94] Stephen: Well, unfortunately for people making things in the us, you know, these threats result [2000.58] Stephen: in threats in reverse and China has slapped tariffs on exports of germanium and other [2009.62] Stephen: rare metals that are used to make drones amongst other electronics. [2015.44] Stephen: So yeah, it's going to be more expensive to export things from China. [2021.42] Stephen: And as a result, China said, well, it's now going to be more expensive for you to make [2025.78] Stephen: things in the us. [2027.62] Stephen: So I'm not sure if anyone's really a winner here. [2030.34] Stephen: I'm not sure what that means for the price of drones for us consumers overall, because [2036.94] Stephen: it sounds like everyone's just going to have to pay more, but we'll see how that goes. [2042.9] Jack: You'll only be legally allowed to buy it from designated Rotoriot shops. [2047.98] Jack: That's it. [2048.98] Stephen: You have to paint your face a launch. [2052.14] Stephen: Place the order. [2053.14] Jack: Yep. [2054.14] Jack: And I'm like, nope, you can't, but it must all go through the correct channels. [2060.38] Jack: I gave up on the KO 45. [2066.82] Jack: I flashed it to AM 32. [2069.5] Jack: I had that horrible, jittery, and in the end, somehow, Stephen, the lovely flight controller [2079.14] Jack: you got me, the SD card, no, it's fine, it's still alive. [2085.82] Jack: The SD card just doesn't work, but this is how saddened I was by my foolish mistake. [2095.78] Jack: I now have, yep, that says BL Heli S. [2100.18] Jack: Well, well, you can't go wrong. [2103.3] Jack: Now come back to 8-bit, baby, 8-bit. [2107.34] Stephen: You could flash it to Blue Jay. [2109.62] Stephen: Sometimes she just needs something that works. [2111.22] Jack: Yeah, maybe. [2112.22] Jack: I don't know. [2113.22] Jack: More than anything, I could have put the other BL Heli, my last BL Heli S, BL Heli 32. [2125.98] Jack: Yeah, see, but I, I don't know where I put it, I have no idea. [2134.9] Stephen: There's some ESC news as well, trying to take this in a positive direction, other than that [2140.06] Stephen: Blue Jay is pretty awesome and they're still working very well, but there were a lot of [2143.94] Stephen: features going into AM 32 for those who have working ones that don't stutter and jump around. [2150.86] Stephen: You can now control them via a drone can. [2155.22] Stephen: So if you find yourself in a situation where your flight controller is two meters distant [2159.86] Stephen: from your ESC, do not spare because you can use CAN all of a sudden to control the ESC. [2167.82] Stephen: And I noticed IKEA came out with this very interesting feature where, well, you know [2173.34] Stephen: that the prop spinning thing where you'd sort of test the motors are spinning in the right [2176.94] Stephen: direction and then you click reverse and then you'd be like, wait a minute, is that the [2180.82] Stephen: right direction? [2181.82] Stephen: And you click reverse again and then you go, and you take off, be 90% sure it was going [2186.66] Stephen: to be okay. [2187.66] Stephen: Only if you're going to flip upside down and try and murder rate you. [2190.78] Stephen: Well rejoice, because there is a slightly simpler way now where AM 32 is reportedly [2197.7] Stephen: able to actually measure which way you rotate the props. [2203.98] Stephen: If you put it in a special mode and you like toggle the beacon on, it can go into a special [2210.3] Stephen: mode where it listens and you manually rotate the prop in the direction you want it to turn [2216.98] Stephen: and then it goes boop boop and remembers the right way and it says that way is now forward, [2223.37] Stephen: which is interesting. [2224.37] Curry: I think Jack's going to say it's not a new thing, is it? [2231.69] Curry: Where did it go? [2232.69] Curry: No. [2233.69] Curry: I think it was on the, what's the company that did easy OGF, I've forgotten now. [2239.21] Curry: It's Immersion RC, Immersion RC bought out their drones and I've got one of them and [2246.97] Curry: I can't remember what it was called, something or other, but they had two F3s in it and one [2254.77] Curry: was two for the flight controller and one was for the OSD and one of the features they [2260.25] Curry: put in is like move your motor, which way you want it and that will be which way it [2265.29] Curry: goes. [2266.37] Curry: It did a lot of really awesome things, which it didn't catch on in regular stuff because [2272.49] Curry: it was our own firmware. [2275.09] Stephen: My only concern is right now it looks like it triggers that mode if you leave the beacon [2279.97] Stephen: on for more than 10 seconds or 10 cycles. [2282.85] Stephen: That's not good. [2283.85] Stephen: If you crash you can't find it for a while. [2285.45] Stephen: So a slightly more complex version so it doesn't like get itself up a tree, have a beacon on, [2291.65] Stephen: you find it, oh it's that tree, then you wiggle the tree with the beacon still on, [2297.33] Stephen: the drone falls through, turns its props in the process and ends up on the ground having [2302.85] Stephen: reversed the direction of several of its motors, unbeknownst to you the pilot who was busy [2307.05] Stephen: shaking a tree. [2308.53] Stephen: So maybe a slightly more complex system to get it into that mode rather than just leaving [2316.53] Stephen: the beacon. [2317.53] Stephen: There does seem to be a problem in that. [2318.53] Jack: Yeah, because as your quad falls the props will be turning the other way, wouldn't they? [2327.25] Jack: But you do have PAS mode. [2329.57] Jack: So I think when it starts detecting it's not moving the correct way it just dies rather [2335.21] Jack: than taking you out because we had an intern at Radio C who wired up the props in the wrong [2345.05] Jack: direction of a KISS quad and I went to flight test there and it nearly took my head off. [2351.49] Jack: It went straight out and almost to the big glass windows, luckily it dropped through [2358.69] Jack: the window. [2360.25] Stephen: With Christmas approaching there's numerous accessories and for a modest fee you can have [2367.41] Stephen: the well-booted DC shoe footed footer jack here placed on top of your quad to ensure [2373.57] Stephen: that you're safe. [2374.57] Stephen: So just a reasonable fee, Jack will travel around the country and put his foot on the [2380.01] Stephen: top of your quad because he's got years of experience doing this. [2383.77] Stephen: So there you are. [2385.01] Jack: I know. [2386.01] Jack: You were horrified by that. [2387.45] Jack: I am so sorry. [2388.61] Stephen: I subject you to anything up to a modest sitting lifter and we think he can keep it down safely [2394.45] Stephen: on the floor. [2396.85] Curry: Back in the olden days you used to tie your quad to two chairs and test it out that way [2402.73] Curry: to make sure it did all the right things. [2404.65] Curry: You do. [2405.65] Curry: I've never done that. [2406.65] Curry: Have you never done that? [2407.65] Curry: That was a tried and tested way of checking your pits. [2412.25] Stephen: I've seen people bungee cord stuff to patio tables and things. [2418.41] Stephen: Any table that comes cold in it. [2419.41] Curry: Bungee cords are a bit dangerous because it's like that's not going to work. [2422.49] Curry: If you suspend it between two chairs and then you can put the motor in and make sure everything [2428.85] Curry: works fine. [2429.85] Curry: How do you suspend it between two chairs? [2432.69] Curry: What's between the two chairs? [2434.65] Curry: Rope. [2435.65] Curry: Rope to quad and then a quad rope to another thing. [2439.97] Curry: So it's suspended on two arms. [2442.73] Jack: Is this everything CPI or whatever when people were doing their testing and is that right? [2449.65] Curry: Is that the right panel? [2453.29] Curry: I've got a video of me doing this once which I won't share with my wife because she'd be [2457.21] Curry: like, what are you doing to our chairs? [2459.21] Curry: It's insane. [2460.73] Stephen: Why has he knocked all the varnish off the chairs? [2463.09] Stephen: Oh, they were like that. [2464.09] Stephen: They were probably the cat. [2465.09] Stephen: It's probably the cat. [2466.09] Stephen: Yeah, it's the cat. [2467.09] Stephen: It wasn't this cine lifter and nothing to do with the cine lifter. [2470.69] Curry: Yeah, that used to be a thing. [2473.65] Curry: Tie things to chairs, test it out. [2476.89] Curry: Two fact. [2478.89] Curry: The fact you haven't done this is right. [2479.89] Stephen: People were actually testing maximum amp draw with batteries by finding a heavy table and [2486.45] Stephen: the bungee cord and really like lashing it down onto the table. [2490.85] Stephen: And it seemed to be that you could go full froth on that and it would be. [2494.53] Curry: Bungee cord sounds like the wrong thing because when you stop thrusting, it's like stuff as [2499.13] Curry: opposed to suspended. [2500.93] Curry: It's just like I think it's like you with a rope and then you stop it and it falls back [2505.65] Stephen: down. [2506.65] Stephen: Yeah, it wasn't enough to actually kind of even create a gap. [2510.57] Stephen: It was just something that was easy to tension. [2512.85] Stephen: You could use like a belt or something, I suppose, but it's something you can crank [2517.41] Stephen: down on it. [2518.41] Stephen: It works. [2519.41] Stephen: Caroline says the ex-partner didn't like that trick, apparently. [2524.09] Stephen: So yeah, furniture damage apparently makes the non-pilots in the household particularly [2530.77] Stephen: annoyed. [2531.77] Curry: Yeah, everything about me doing quads in the house makes the partner particularly annoyed. [2538.53] Curry: So look out for that. [2540.53] Stephen: Fly them somewhere else. [2542.65] Stephen: And Numskull comments that he remembers when radix changed their gyros and had his one [2550.57] Stephen: and only fly away, which took off in his back garden and over the main road at max power, [2556.97] Stephen: which yeah, that would be terrifying. [2559.57] Stephen: When you go out to do a nice gentle hover test and it's just 100% and gone like a bullet. [2565.25] Curry: I managed to do that when I was first building my tricopter when I didn't know what I was [2569.53] Curry: doing. [2570.53] Curry: And someone at work lent me a radio and tried this out and I didn't know what I'd plugged [2575.09] Curry: into what because I was throttling up and then the motors were coming on in ways I wasn't [2582.89] Curry: familiar with. [2583.89] Curry: And it had these switches to reverse the channels. [2586.37] Curry: So I was like, I'll try reversing that one. [2587.97] Curry: Anything happen? [2588.97] Curry: No. [2589.97] Curry: I'll try reversing that one. [2590.97] Curry: Eventually, I managed to reverse the throttle in which case the tricopter went shh and hit [2595.25] Curry: me in the head and then fell back down again. [2599.05] Stephen: I suppose at least it hit you because if it didn't, would you have even ever seen it again? [2603.29] Stephen: It would just be gone. [2604.61] Curry: Yeah, fortunately, it wasn't stable enough just to go up with it, but I learned about [2612.93] Stephen: what channel orders were. [2614.69] Stephen: So that was quite useful. [2616.61] Stephen: The comments in the chat apparently, wigs are very dangerous with these similar tests [2621.97] Stephen: as well. [2623.73] Stephen: Yeah, anyone with delicate furniture or hair pieces, just don't be testing your quarter [2632.25] Stephen: round anything more or less is the message I'm getting here. [2635.41] Stephen: I think that's fair. [2637.41] Curry: So talking of next year, I was thinking about Express LRS, what's happening there? [2644.33] Curry: And the main thing I could think of, because I haven't looked at what's coming up, is the [2648.29] Curry: use of the LR1121 chip, which has this huge range of frequencies because previously you [2656.29] Curry: have multiband. [2657.29] Curry: I've forgotten what the chip's called. [2658.89] Curry: You had the 2.4 chip and you had the 868915 chip and now you've got this single chip that [2665.21] Curry: goes from a range, I think it includes 433 up to 866 and 2.4. [2671.13] Curry: So you've got one chip to do them all. [2674.53] Curry: So essentially, we could have receivers coming out where you could flash both versions of [2680.97] Curry: the firmware and just swap the antenna over to do things what's happening there. [2685.45] Stephen: Yeah, what is happening there? [2687.25] Stephen: I mean, if only we had someone who knew, well, I guess we'll just carry on repeating hearsay [2693.89] Stephen: and conjecture. [2694.89] Stephen: But yeah, it looks very promising and new chipsets, I think the original ones, the [2704.37] Stephen: Cintech modules they had were pretty old, right? [2709.17] Stephen: The ones on the 900 megahertz band were what was being used in Crossfire for many, many [2714.49] Stephen: years or very, very minor revisions on what was being used for Crossfire, right? [2719.81] Stephen: Yeah, I think it's the same chip as that. [2725.57] Jack: You know, like Crossfire released their GitHub, was there any updates to that? [2733.09] Jack: Did we learn anything? [2735.81] Stephen: How incredibly sarcastic comments? [2738.41] Stephen: I think the original promise was that it would appear in two weeks. [2744.57] Stephen: It was pointed out that I believe two weeks on Venus was finally what we ended up with [2750.29] Stephen: at something around 640 days total earth standard days. [2756.45] Stephen: But yeah, that everyone's at least got something to base it off now. [2759.65] Stephen: And that's good. [2760.65] Stephen: They finally got something out there. [2763.13] Stephen: It looks like, you know, the LRS has just pretty much taken over the hobby. [2767.21] Stephen: There's a little bit of noise about, oh, look, FrSky, I have their new radios out and then [2772.33] Stephen: you can kind of do this and you hit this button and it's like the old RXSR. [2778.85] Stephen: I noticed Mads review of that was like, oh, yeah, but you can also run Express LRS on [2783.69] Stephen: this. [2784.69] Stephen: So, yeah. [2787.23] Curry: I wonder, I'm interested to know if we'll see some people going back to 433. [2793.23] Curry: There was some people experimenting with 433 on Express LRS. [2797.63] Curry: But I don't think it's gotten to sort of the main code, like back in the old days. [2804.11] Curry: And I think the reason Crossfire exists is because Trappy got into an argument with Sander [2810.39] Curry: at Emotion RC about EZ-OHF blanking out on one of their long range flights. [2817.79] Curry: And they got into this big public argument and then like, well, we'll make our own radio [2823.23] Curry: system there. [2824.23] Curry: Don't like yours anymore. [2825.95] Curry: And like, oh, it's Crossfire. [2828.19] Curry: So 433 back in the day was like the range king. [2833.47] Curry: But it's like the antenna for it because it's a longer wavelength is like this big. [2839.19] Curry: Oh, it's like it's back to the 80s antenna. [2841.19] Curry: It's not quite so good for quads. [2842.19] Curry: Yeah. [2843.19] Curry: You'd go very far on it. [2844.19] Curry: But you'd go very far on 2.4. [2845.19] Stephen: Maybe we need a 72 megahertz version of Express LRS, you know? [2848.79] Stephen: Yes, you'd go back to 35 megs and go the whole thing and just have like this big tree and [2853.99] Stephen: things. [2854.99] Stephen: But every now and then he does wing racing in Wales. [2857.23] Stephen: And if we get that, he probably wouldn't need to leave the house. [2860.67] Stephen: It's run is like 72 megahertz CLRS and probably reached Wales from his house. [2867.99] Curry: Oh, we've got an update from people now. [2870.83] Curry: The 433 is available, says Kevin Bright. [2873.39] Curry: But the sensitivity doesn't seem to match the specs. [2875.43] Curry: Joe did a ton of testing to try and make it work, but eventually put it aside. [2878.79] Curry: Oh, that's a shame. [2879.79] Curry: We can't have the good old days. [2881.03] Curry: I've still got my diamond antenna somewhere, which is it makes you feel like an old radio [2885.59] Curry: controller because when you've got a radio and your antenna is like this tall and it [2889.95] Curry: has that big wiggle to it, that's more fun than this little stubby thing. [2894.43] Curry: You have a diamond antenna. [2895.95] Stephen: What you do is literally be the size of a bent coat hanger. [2899.43] Curry: Yeah, the diamond antennas were the things to get for 433 and had to make sure you didn't [2904.59] Curry: get a fake and that that would go on on your DragonLink or your EZ-OTF or your R9 link. [2910.99] Curry: There's there's loads of weird, weird and wonderful 333 systems out there that were very [2917.27] Curry: expensive back in the day. [2919.15] Stephen: Yeah, it's a shame that 433 doesn't deliver, but for most people, 2.4 works great. [2924.83] Stephen: So while I'm sure that the guys with their experience and brains could probably figure [2931.07] Stephen: out which component is to blame for the lack of sensitivity and make some progress, there's [2937.87] Stephen: not a lot of people that find 2.4 gigahertz limiting with Express LRS, much less like [2944.19] Stephen: the 900 or 868 version. [2946.19] Stephen: So the people who need 433, that would probably be just curiosity and experimentation for [2953.15] Stephen: the most part, rather than an actual need to be able to fly more than 100 kilometers [2957.71] Curry: away from where they're standing or having weird things left over. [2961.87] Curry: Yeah, I still got I still got some antennas on my my the plane that hates me as has got a [2970.87] Curry: I forgot what it says now, but it's yeah, it's got a 433 antenna going through it, which is [2975.91] Curry: like this big. [2977.35] Curry: Still have to get back and fly that thing eventually. [2980.39] Stephen: So what are you looking forward to building in your career? [2983.43] Stephen: You seem to have probably three or four builds going at the moment. [2987.11] Stephen: It looks quite busy where you are. [2990.23] Curry: Um, I've still got that VTOL, which isn't working. [2994.79] Curry: So I'd like that to work. [2998.79] Curry: Other than that, it's like it's all a bit nothing, nothing particularly new. [3005.19] Stephen: It's just like VTOL to work, are you waiting for the manufacturers to do something or are [3009.79] Stephen: you talking to developers or are you just kind of like staring at it and the hope that [3014.75] Curry: it's kind of like we have the slight disagreement between the main manufacturer about what [3020.03] Curry: happens when you connect it to a computer where I send them a video of me hooking it up, [3025.19] Curry: downloading Q Ground Control, plugging in and it's saying, I don't know what this is. [3031.67] Curry: We don't know what your firmware is. [3032.99] Curry: We don't know what your model is. [3034.27] Curry: And they send me a video back when they plug it in and it says, it shows our model, it [3038.03] Curry: shows our firmware. [3038.75] Curry: It's like brilliant. [3040.11] Curry: How do we, how do we match up? [3042.07] Curry: How do we mesh together? [3043.67] Curry: Because you sent me two of these and they both did the same thing. [3048.32] Stephen: I noticed I got a warning with a mission planner or something on my phone where it's now [3053.68] Stephen: apparently identified as a malicious app by Google, which was a bit of concern. [3059.2] Stephen: Nice. [3060.44] Jack: How did the jacket go or shall I watch that video, Curry? [3067.96] Curry: I have, it was toasty as I keep saying relentlessly. [3072.2] Curry: If you, if you have a drink every time I say toasty, you will be blind drunk by halfway [3077.4] Curry: through the video. [3078.16] Curry: Apparently it's my word of the day for that day. [3080.44] Curry: It's very nice. [3081.4] Curry: It was like, it was nice. [3082.64] Curry: It's like a nice warm thing. [3084.52] Curry: Even though I wasn't cold, I decided to keep it on because it was so pleasant. [3090.87] Stephen: You know, my, my first thought was, oh, a barrel jacket. [3094.59] Stephen: Oh, that's interesting. [3096.55] Stephen: I wonder what happens if you put a three S on that. [3102.67] Curry: You see, you see this like fire at the back. [3106.39] Curry: That'd be fun. [3109.15] Stephen: Yeah. [3111.23] Stephen: Cause it looked like it was probably maxing out of five volts and then it was like [3115.11] Stephen: switching up to five faults or something. [3117.87] Stephen: Be interesting to see how much juice it's actually putting out because you've got so [3122.47] Stephen: many packs and, and it looks like it's got the same plug as you did have on like a [3126.59] Stephen: goggles pack or something. [3129.27] Curry: Yeah. [3129.47] Curry: I could, I could, I could plug six S in and see what happens. [3133.63] Curry: It might be boring though. [3134.55] Curry: It might just be, um, um, it just like pops. [3141.87] Stephen: Well, you could start small. [3143.19] Stephen: You could start with like a two S pack and be like, what, what's going to happen on [3147.83] Stephen: the two S and two S is what it's got essentially. [3151.35] Curry: Yeah. [3151.51] Curry: It's seven. [3152.03] Curry: Can you swap and use the goggles pack? [3155.31] Curry: I could do because with, uh, the walk snail and the HD zero goggles, you get a [3161.95] Curry: barrel Jack with an XD 60 in the end, which you plug one end into your goggles [3165.75] Curry: and the other other side into whatever. [3167.47] Curry: So it's like, let's connect different batteries, but I quite like being warm. [3172.15] Curry: So I don't really want to blow up. [3174.59] Curry: It'd be quite good to glow in the dark as well though. [3176.51] Stephen: If I can just get a while ago, but I haven't worn them in absolutely ages. [3180.79] Stephen: I've forgotten where I put them. [3181.87] Stephen: I got them for snowboarding. [3184.03] Stephen: I, I want these for skiing as well. [3185.95] Stephen: I'm scheming every, I need to keep my feet warm. [3190.27] Stephen: The wiring was a bit of a problem because I had to connect each [3194.19] Stephen: individual sock to a USB C. [3197.11] Stephen: Um, so I ended up with this weird system of like a splitter and like [3201.71] Stephen: two USB power cables running down my legs. [3205.51] Stephen: Cause I came with these really small batteries and they would [3208.35] Stephen: discharge quite quickly, especially cause lipos get cold. [3211.75] Stephen: They get really bad at holding their charge. [3214.43] Stephen: Uh, and so I wanted to put the lipo in my pocket where it was nice and [3217.83] Stephen: toasty and then run a elite. [3219.95] Stephen: Yeah. [3220.19] Stephen: I ended up with this kind of just maze of USB extensions running [3224.43] Stephen: down the trails of legs. [3225.55] Stephen: And it was, yeah, it felt like a bit dangerous. [3230.87] Curry: It does. [3231.99] Curry: I suppose what I'm looking forward to is, is something I guess we talked [3237.87] Curry: about before, it's like the, a module for a goggle that would just give you [3244.63] Curry: HDZ, uh, I just did a, uh, open IPC with a DVR, which at the moment is a [3249.79] Curry: Redaxa, which you'd have to sell it yourself, but it'd be a nice tab, a [3253.91] Curry: commercial thing with just like this little tiny HDMI need and just [3258.07] Curry: connect it up and go. [3260.19] Curry: That would be good because at the moment it's, it's a bit slow. [3263.03] Curry: I might have to go and buy myself one of those things because at the [3266.59] Curry: moment I can't record true DVR. [3270.07] Curry: I have to use like a tablet and that's only recording about 40 to 50 frames [3274.59] Curry: a second, and I'm getting like lovely smoothness in my goggles. [3278.63] Curry: And when I look at it on the DVR playback, it's like, Oh, that's not very [3281.67] Curry: smooth because missing frames out. [3284.35] Stephen: Powerplay for 2024 that actually does HDMI pass through and record [3289.59] Stephen: instead of, uh, just the old school one. [3292.35] Curry: I'm told that the, the orca goggles can record from HDMI in. [3296.79] Curry: So that is possible, but they're very, very expensive. [3299.79] Curry: Yeah. [3300.79] Curry: Those goggles, aren't they? [3302.07] Curry: So it's kind of moved past them as well, hasn't it? [3305.71] Curry: They were supposed to be in their HD system out several years ago [3308.67] Stephen: and it's, it still hasn't happened. [3311.03] Stephen: HD zero apparently advertised that as an initial feature, but they were blocked [3316.07] Stephen: from, um, incorporating HDMI recording because the HDMI consortium gets [3321.59] Stephen: twitchy about people recording stuff off HDMI. [3324.91] Stephen: And so they're all sorts better. [3326.63] Stephen: The blocker feature in the firmware. [3328.31] Stephen: So it sounds like the hardware is capable, but they were told that that [3332.71] Stephen: would be naughty because people would, I don't know, like plug it into their [3336.79] Stephen: Chromecast and record Netflix shows or something daft. [3340.23] Stephen: I don't know. [3342.11] Curry: It's not, uh, I mean, you could do it. [3344.63] Stephen: Yeah, that's why I said screen recording. [3346.95] Stephen: Yeah. [3347.35] Stephen: I mean, it's, it's designed to record a camera signal. [3351.15] Stephen: We just do that. [3351.99] Stephen: So I don't know what the fuss is. [3353.95] Stephen: Like I've got Elgato like USB things here that I use for cameras plus the [3359.43] Stephen: one that I'm using for camp right now that will do it, but apparently it was [3362.59] Stephen: a blocker for HD zero on and you can understand if you're making a niche [3366.31] Stephen: product like that, the fewer hurdles you have to jump through the better. [3372.07] Curry: What about you, Jack? [3373.15] Curry: What are you looking forward to in 2025? [3376.15] Curry: It's going to float your boat. [3379.68] Jack: Uh, I don't know. [3382.92] Jack: Brilliant. [3383.24] Jack: Maybe some work EFCs, but I don't know. [3388.12] Jack: Stop fiddling with them. [3390.4] Jack: Yeah, just leave alone. [3393.44] Jack: I ain't got a clue really. [3395.8] Jack: I'm just trying to get through life. [3398.68] Jack: That's it. [3401.43] Jack: It's a, it's very difficult. [3404.35] Jack: I do. [3405.23] Jack: I am struggling. [3408.15] Jack: You know, uh, I don't know if like, yeah, 10 years, 10 years of LDI. [3413.39] Jack: I'm looking forward to that. [3415.63] Jack: I'm looking forward to that. [3417.39] Curry: Is that when we stop and we just destroy the website? [3421.91] Jack: Yeah. [3422.51] Jack: Well, you guys, you guys can, you guys can carry on. [3426.19] Jack: I just want to be able to attend. [3429.75] Jack: Um, you know, like to go, go to the sort of like maker space and stuff. [3436.11] Stephen: Yeah. [3436.83] Stephen: I think like 10 years of LDO would be just a giant bonfire of trashed [3441.19] Stephen: planes and old quads and Jack jumping up and down on top of it, [3445.03] Stephen: making hooting monkey noises. [3447.83] Jack: Yeah. [3448.99] Jack: Like, like the, um, you know, the heat episode from black books, Dave syndrome. [3457.39] Stephen: Much like that. [3458.23] Jack: Yeah. [3460.82] Curry: So we're going to go meet up and fly and LDO 10 year flying. [3468.66] Curry: And he's coming from Canada. [3470.42] Curry: That's what he's suggesting. [3472.46] Stephen: Yeah. [3472.66] Stephen: So drone light shows that's becoming a thing. [3475.06] Stephen: Would you, when everyone was messing around with we none chucks, would you [3479.74] Stephen: have predicted that they were going to be replacing fireworks that actually [3485.14] Stephen: be seen as the sensible safe alternative to fireworks and would be flying [3489.78] Stephen: in fleets of one to 300 over the faces of families nationwide? [3498.66] Curry: It is quite good. [3499.5] Curry: Cause it's like, it's not fireworks, but it's potentially just as dangerous. [3504.66] Stephen: If they try it out dangerous, it's pitch, but you're literally flying them in the [3509.3] Stephen: middle of the night where you can't see if they even start falling. [3512.78] Curry: Exactly. [3513.26] Curry: It doesn't make great big bang noises, which is very good. [3516.5] Curry: If people have pets, uh, the whole of that couple of weeks around November [3521.38] Curry: the fifth is that there's a nightmare as the dog is just going mental. [3525.18] Curry: And the cat is hiding under the bed at all times. [3527.98] Curry: So yeah, it sounds good. [3530.94] Stephen: You are. [3531.18] Stephen: Yeah. [3532.14] Jack: And the rubbish. [3533.66] Stephen: Pro tip for that. [3534.62] Stephen: Um, first, first time dog owner with Bob, but, um, yeah, play a lot of video games [3540.34] Stephen: and watch like really loud action movies. [3542.66] Stephen: And then when the fireworks appear, your dog's just like, what? [3546.18] Stephen: Oh, all right. [3548.98] Stephen: Hmm. [3550.42] Curry: Maybe we'll just be suspicious of anybody that walks outside the house. [3555.98] Curry: And that includes an area of approximately 50 meters from the front door. [3560.26] Curry: Anybody in that zone can be parked out as soon as she's outside that zone. [3563.74] Curry: It's okay. [3564.22] Jack: But in that zone with, with, with, I loved the video that you shot for me of [3571.9] Jack: the cat winding up the dog as you were coming home. [3577.02] Jack: That was really sweet. [3578.26] Jack: Thank you. [3580.34] Curry: Oh, that's, that's okay. [3582.34] Curry: The, uh, weird cat that jumps out. [3584.7] Curry: And sometimes she comes, like one time she came to walk all the way to the park [3589.02] Curry: with us and people were staring and pointing, not because there was a cat [3594.98] Curry: there, but it was just this dog and cat walking side by side down the road [3598.54] Curry: was, was freaking them all out a little bit. [3601.18] Curry: They didn't really understand. [3603.18] Stephen: Yeah. [3603.38] Stephen: My cat max hangs out in the front garden until Bob comes back and then [3608.14] Stephen: jumps out at Bob and sniff surface. [3611.14] Stephen: Yeah. [3613.14] Stephen: That's and dogs can get on. [3614.74] Stephen: Nice. [3616.3] Stephen: It's true. [3617.82] Stephen: Someone was saying the TBS Lucid, uh, hang on, hang on. [3623.02] Stephen: You said a TBS 12 S ESC under 50 quid. [3629.66] Stephen: Now that does sound amazing. [3631.54] Stephen: That's not a four in one though. [3632.9] Stephen: That is a single ESC. [3634.66] Stephen: So if you want to fly, you're going to need 200 quids worth of ESC. [3638.82] Curry: Yes. [3639.1] Curry: But anyone who might be thinking that was an amazing deal, someone that's got them. [3643.5] Curry: My, my friend, Bob, who lives over in Florida is attempting to build a 13 inch [3648.86] Curry: drone using these and his first effort of plugging in resulted in a pop and lots [3656.1] Curry: of smoke, uh, where he thinks he's, he's blown his PDB. [3663.58] Stephen: Has he made a drone before this? [3666.86] Stephen: Yes, but not this big. [3668.58] Stephen: Okay. [3670.58] Curry: It's interesting. [3671.22] Curry: It's like the, it's like the PDB can't send all its 12 S to the flight controller. [3676.54] Curry: So it has this little, it has this weird little, um, pin. [3680.98] Curry: That's like, this is one 10th of the actual power. [3684.1] Curry: And you connect that to VBAP and then in beta flight, you say, uh, give me the [3689.66] Curry: voltage and here's my multiplier. [3691.5] Curry: And that, that's how you get your true voltage out of it. [3693.9] Curry: You get this little divided by whatever. [3697.14] Curry: Yeah. [3699.9] Stephen: Interesting. [3701.06] Stephen: Yeah. [3701.34] Stephen: So this is a, yeah, it's an AM32 ESC, uh, 70 amp sustained, uh, 90 amp for 40 [3707.86] Stephen: seconds burst of 120 amp at 12 S. [3712.62] Stephen: Oof. [3713.74] Stephen: Uh, it's described as by Ann Mantek, meet the TBS Lucid 12 S ESC, a voltage [3720.5] Stephen: goblin that laughs at thermal punishment. [3726.28] Curry: So that you are a voltage goblin, a voltage goblin. [3730.64] Curry: Right. [3731.6] Curry: Hey, we've come to the end of the show. [3735.6] Jack: Yeah. [3736.28] Jack: I'm on the Thursday night show.com. [3740.52] Jack: So if you guys aren't sick of me, um, I am on there from 11 to 12 UK time. [3750.68] Jack: There's a whole, uh, retro new retro new wave. [3761.24] Jack: New retro wave. [3762.8] Jack: Yeah. [3763.84] Jack: And I mixed with eight East classics. [3768.84] Jack: So yeah, go to the Thursday night show.com. [3774.04] Jack: Hopefully we'll be a bit better than what we have been. [3778.52] Jack: But yeah, it'd be lovely to see anyone over there because most [3782.68] Jack: people go to sleep by then. [3785.48] Stephen: Well, you, you're developing this kind of John Peel restful voice persona, Jack. [3789.84] Stephen: So maybe that's exactly what people need to just chill out after a rough Thursday. [3794.8] Stephen: You just get to a time with Jack where we play you some wonderful retro tunes. [3802.16] Stephen: Yeah, it works. [3804.96] Stephen: Yeah. [3805.96] Stephen: Very calming. [3807.52] Jack: And there's no BBC and mess it all up. [3810.52] Stephen: No. [3812.36] Stephen: And you weren't unexpectedly like drop some like hardcore punk without any [3817.84] Stephen: warning right into the middle of the mix. [3819.56] Stephen: Like John Peel would, it's just going to stay nice and mellifluous. [3825.68] Jack: That's how it should be. [3826.48] Jack: What consumed Cole. [3828.48] Jack: Cole's doing it right. [3829.56] Jack: People. [3831.56] Stephen: Noice. [3832.64] Stephen: That is the correct way. [3833.76] Stephen: While flying. [3835.6] Jack: Like, subscribe, share to all your friends, click all the [3840.88] Stephen: buttons all at once. [3842.24] Jack: The bellend button. [3843.92] Jack: Yeah. [3844.96] Jack: Yeah. [3845.76] Jack: Join our Patreon when Cole gets back next week. [3849.24] Jack: We're going to do another history. [3851.84] Stephen: We're experimenting with ESCs and FCs and all sorts of new firmware. [3856.72] Stephen: Do it a long way away and pay for Jack's executive service of putting his foot [3862.8] Stephen: on your quad for a reasonable rate. [3864.44] Stephen: I'll just tie it to some chairs. [3866.88] Stephen: Yeah. [3867.72] Stephen: Um, chairs that you have pre-agreed with other house users are acceptable [3873.56] Stephen: for beating the snot out of with flying apparel. [3877.48] Jack: I've only got one chair. [3878.76] Jack: I haven't got two chairs. [3880.24] Jack: Uh, Clive use, Clive has used my, uh, executive foot and ESC [3886.6] Jack: flashing services. [3888.16] Jack: Oh, there you are. [3888.68] Jack: I don't know how he found the service. [3892.6] Stephen: He's still in the hobby. [3893.76] Stephen: So that's a good start. [3895.08] Jack: How is that ESC doing? [3896.52] Jack: Has it exploded? [3898.2] Stephen: I mean, I, I, we hope that's because he, he's so overawed with the [3911.12] Stephen: executive foot and quad staying service. [3915.4] Stephen: There we are. [3916.64] Stephen: Well, yeah, everyone go join Jack's Thursday night show, which you can find at [3921.76] Jack: Thursday night show.com. [3924.68] Jack: The Thursday night show.com. [3927.6] Jack: Thank you. [3928.0] Jack: You've been joined by Stephen. [3931.48] Curry: I'm everybody's favorite. [3932.6] Curry: Curry kitten. [3934.36] Jack: And I'm brought to life. [3935.96] Jack: Thank you. [3936.32] Jack: Good night. [3937.48] Jack: Bye. [3937.68] Jack: Stay safe. [3938.4] Jack: Thank you. [3938.68] Jack: Lovely Patreons.