=== Let's Drone Out — Episode 498 ===
Title: LDO 498 - NHS Drone Logistics ft Amy from Apian
Recorded: 2025-03-13
Hosts: Andrew "Frank" Hyams, Stephen "Belrik" Howell, Wayne "CurryKitten" Andrews, Jack "Brightontillifly" Nash
Guest(s): Amy Labrum
Total audience: 981
Platforms: YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qm_hiK4Cq9A); SoundCloud (http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/feeds.soundcloud.com/stream/2055016844-letsdroneout-ldo-498-nhs-drone-logistics-ft-amy-from-apian.mp3)
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Check out Apian online:
https://www.apian.aero/

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[0.0] Jack: Hello, and you're listening to Let's Drone Out, a special thank you to our lovely patrons
[6.28] Jack: that help donate so that we can pay the editor to remove the swear words and silly things
[11.36] Jack: we say.
[13.0] Jack: Massive thank you to Carlos Campos, Art Faulkner, Sam Dahmer.
[19.68] Frank: On with the show.
[20.68] Amy Labrum: Now let the trees recover.
[21.68] Amy Labrum: Let's drone out now.
[52.13] Frank: Good evening, and welcome to Let's Drone Out, episode 498, almost out of 500.
[60.85] Frank: It is Thursday the 13th of March, 2025, and joining us this week, we do have Jack.
[67.45] Frank: Hello.
[68.45] Frank: We have with us Stephen back from his holidays.
[71.41] Stephen: Hello everyone, good to see you again.
[73.21] Frank: We have everyone's favourite, Curry Kitten, also back from his holidays.
[76.09] Frank: Hello.
[77.09] Frank: I'm Andrew slash Frank, and we have with us Amy from Apian.
[80.81] Frank: Good evening.
[81.81] Amy Labrum: How are you doing?
[82.81] Amy Labrum: Hi.
[83.81] Amy Labrum: Thanks for having me.
[84.81] Frank: Nice to see you all.
[85.81] Frank: Great having you on.
[86.81] Frank: So Amy is a qualified drone pilot in her own right, having worked in videography and multiple
[94.57] Frank: startups, tech startups, drone tech startups.
[98.17] Frank: And now Amy is the director of operations for Apian Aero.
[103.69] Frank: So Amy, what have you been doing with drones at Apian?
[110.05] Amy Labrum: Well, that's a big question, isn't it?
[113.05] Amy Labrum: I've been with Apian for two and a half years or so now, and we've been working, essentially
[121.57] Amy Labrum: what we do is we work with the NHS and healthcare providers to bring on demand delivery through
[127.25] Amy Labrum: drones.
[128.25] Amy Labrum: So we're a logistics provider, essentially, and we're trying to join the drone world with
[133.37] Amy Labrum: the healthcare world.
[135.69] Amy Labrum: So it's been a really exciting journey, culminating with a point right now where we're flying
[140.53] Amy Labrum: blood samples across London for guys in St. Tommy's Hospital Trust, which is really exciting.
[145.85] Frank: Great.
[146.85] Frank: So I understand that it's sort of a spin out from the NHS almost on its origins.
[156.41] Amy Labrum: Yeah, exactly right.
[158.09] Amy Labrum: So our co-founders, two of our co-founders were doctors in the NHS.
[164.17] Amy Labrum: And while they were training, they saw that while they were doing obviously amazing work
[169.05] Amy Labrum: saving people's lives, they were severely slowed down by the speed of the logistics.
[173.85] Amy Labrum: And they basically decided that they would take a huge brave step and step out of the
[180.01] Amy Labrum: NHS and start Apian.
[182.85] Amy Labrum: What they wanted to do was to tackle that big problem of the logistics so that the doctors
[185.95] Amy Labrum: could spend as much time as possible curing patients instead of worrying about something
[191.77] Amy Labrum: and getting across the trust, across the kind of geography from one place to the other.
[197.33] Amy Labrum: Yeah, so we very much have our roots in the NHS and we're healthcare first.
[203.93] Frank: Yeah, absolutely.
[205.41] Frank: So in terms of sort of drone deliveries, it's something we've heard a lot about for a long
[211.05] Frank: time.
[212.97] Frank: It often seems to be sort of a thing in the distant far future, but as director of reparations,
[219.45] Frank: presumably, that means you're doing things as part of your day to day at the moment.
[225.23] Amy Labrum: Absolutely, yeah, we are doing the future right now.
[230.67] Amy Labrum: We've done something that I think is pretty amazing and I'm really proud of and that is
[234.71] Amy Labrum: to start this service with Geysen St. Thomas's and Synovus.
[239.39] Amy Labrum: And we to date have served more than 2,000 patients in the four months we've been operating
[244.83] Amy Labrum: in London.
[246.55] Amy Labrum: We've delivered more than 2,000 samples and that those samples directly translate to doctors
[251.99] Amy Labrum: being able to check the results quicker.
[254.87] Amy Labrum: Maybe they can discharge someone sooner, maybe they can get them into surgery quicker and
[259.83] Amy Labrum: it's all about bringing that care closer to home, so minimizing the amount of time people
[263.39] Amy Labrum: have to spend in the hospital.
[265.15] Amy Labrum: So while it does seem really futuristic, we are doing it right now, which is pretty amazing.
[273.83] Frank: The way I first came across Appian was the Solent trials, which is a while back.
[284.71] Frank: Just because it's quite local to quite a few of us on here, and so to see it here, there's
[290.39] Frank: actually some things flying through the sky doing something useful, that was quite interesting.
[296.59] Frank: So that's where I first got in touch with Appian and heard about what they're doing.
[303.23] Frank: But you've been doing this in quite a few different locations, I understand.
[308.19] Amy Labrum: That's right, yes.
[309.51] Amy Labrum: So I joined the company just after the Solent trials, so I obviously, the same as you heard
[314.83] Amy Labrum: all about it, and I wasn't actually actively involved in it, but not long after I joined,
[318.91] Amy Labrum: we launched a trial with Skyports up in Northumberland, working with the Northumbria Healthcare Trust.
[325.99] Amy Labrum: And that was a picture there, yes, so we were using the drones to fly quite a long way around
[332.95] Amy Labrum: 80 kilometres, transporting pathology samples, but also medical to places and medical records.
[339.75] Amy Labrum: And it's one of the UK's most global trusts, so actually, if anyone's ever been to Northumberland,
[345.67] Amy Labrum: there's kind of like one spine road, and as soon as that gets snarled up, it can be absolutely
[350.79] Amy Labrum: ages, you know, it can be hours from getting from one place to the other, so we were able to
[354.87] Amy Labrum: make a significant difference there. And it was also kind of the start of Appian's platform,
[361.67] Amy Labrum: you know, back then we essentially had a spreadsheet, and that was how we kind of like tracked things,
[366.79] Amy Labrum: but we then had the staff in the Healthcare Trust using that spreadsheet to kind of see when they
[372.39] Amy Labrum: could expect their drone to arrive with their package, and so it kind of formed the start of
[377.43] Amy Labrum: what we now have, which is a fantastic platform built by our engineers, and that's integrated
[383.75] Amy Labrum: with both the way we can with the drone provider we use now, in this trial we're doing in London,
[388.95] Amy Labrum: and with the Healthcare Trust as well with guys in St Tommy's, so that was really special to be part of.
[395.43] Frank: I mean, spreadsheets, I feel like are a common structural component of early startups.
[403.51] Frank: But yeah, so you've sort of, I mean, the big thing for Appian, I believe at the moment, is this
[410.47] Frank: API, this more sort of solid, robust system than a spreadsheet that you've now been using with
[417.75] Frank: these different routes, right? So maybe now's a good time to sort of briefly cover what that is.
[426.71] Amy Labrum: Yeah, absolutely. Well, I'm not an engineer, so I'll do my best to kind of like talk about it,
[431.83] Amy Labrum: and of course my team and the team at the Trust use it every day, and so essentially what our
[437.03] Amy Labrum: platform does, it means that at the lab, at Guy's Hospital, when they're booking in samples and
[442.95] Amy Labrum: they're packaging them all ready for transport, they can go in and book a drone delivery.
[447.27] Amy Labrum: It's like a couple of clicks, it's really simple to use and really well laid out for them, and then
[452.39] Amy Labrum: it's fully traceable across that journey. So by ordering that delivery, we then are kind of
[459.03] Amy Labrum: integrated into the system so that a porter knows to come and collect it and take it to the site
[462.87] Amy Labrum: where the drones are going to then take off from, and then the people in the lab and of course the
[468.47] Amy Labrum: doctors who ordered the tests and the people in the receiving lab can see the whole of that journey.
[472.79] Amy Labrum: They know when the parcel is going to arrive, and what we know about some of these tests in the lab
[479.99] Amy Labrum: is that if it hasn't arrived by a certain time, the people at the sending lab have to start calling
[484.71] Amy Labrum: and saying, you know, this test was supposed to arrive, is it here yet? But with our platform,
[488.79] Amy Labrum: they don't just do that anymore because they can see, and so that's really powerful. So the kind
[493.11] Amy Labrum: of fatigue that you get from having to chase things down is automatically removed by putting
[497.67] Frank: your system into play there. So I've got a lovely photo here of a wing of a drone with NHS on the
[507.59] Frank: side being carried through what looks like a medical laboratory. I'm assuming that isn't
[515.59] Amy Labrum: representative of day-to-day operations. No, absolutely not. This is Hamert, who's one of
[520.87] Amy Labrum: our co-founders and one of the doctors I spoke about earlier. And so this is from one of our
[526.55] Amy Labrum: first drones that we worked with. We do have slightly different drones now, and we don't
[533.27] Amy Labrum: carry them through labs. Thankfully, we have the Guy's Cancer Centre, where we have some
[540.47] Amy Labrum: temporary infrastructure. It's very lightweight and very kind of like easy to implement up there.
[545.43] Amy Labrum: The drones kind of live there. It's their home. They're safely stored. They're implemented and
[549.27] Amy Labrum: put out. And yeah, off they go. We have some beautiful transport boxes that come as part of
[557.43] Amy Labrum: wing setup. They're called the HexaTope, and they're NHS branded. So they're not rainbow,
[562.15] Amy Labrum: but not dissimilar to this. They are very much NHS units that we use, which is nice to see.
[567.99] Amy Labrum: And that was a really important thing for us too, is to show that we're doing this for healthcare.
[572.79] Frank: Yeah, absolutely. Caroline Tyler in the chat just said, this is what drone delivery should
[579.27] Frank: be used for, not a cappuccino, which I think echoes the sentiment a lot of us have had hearing
[585.27] Frank: about what APN had been doing. It's great to hear that while drone deliveries are becoming a thing,
[595.03] Frank: they're being used for something that's worthwhile. It's not eating up a load of air space and effort
[600.47] Frank: to do something trivial. It's doing something that's actually really meaningful.
[606.63] Frank: That's been very keen to hear more about it. So you've mentioned getting around the traffic in
[614.23] Frank: London, I guess, and getting over the hills and the countryside of Northumberland.
[621.75] Frank: Is that sort of where you think the benefits of drones are over other bits of logistics?
[631.11] Frank: Or what do you think about the benefits? What are the strengths?
[634.95] Amy Labrum: I think one of the things that really appealed to me about joining APN when I did was that
[641.27] Amy Labrum: we identified that there are lots of different ways to transport things and there are lots of
[645.03] Amy Labrum: different drones during the manufacturers, drone providers. So we kind of look at the use case and
[649.75] Amy Labrum: select the right provider with a strong safety record and with the right kind of like range and
[655.35] Amy Labrum: payload to suit that. What we also know is that right now drones aren't the answer for everything
[661.67] Amy Labrum: and indeed going forward, we envisage drones being used a vast amount more for these healthcare use
[668.63] Amy Labrum: cases, but they are a part of an ecosystem of logistics. So in London, we've got our wing
[674.63] Amy Labrum: drones. We're flying between these two sites. It is a relatively short distance, but it's a
[680.23] Amy Labrum: distance that can take up to 45 minutes in traffic by car. It takes us two minutes every time. Then
[686.79] Amy Labrum: you look at those rural use cases and you need a drone that can travel longer distances, but that
[691.03] Amy Labrum: still has its benefits. But as a logistics provider, you know, we're looking at drones and other things
[697.27] Amy Labrum: and other ways. What is the most effective way to get this from A to B to prioritise that patient's
[703.19] Amy Labrum: care? So mostly that is going to be a drone, but it's not always going to be a drone. We recognise
[707.67] Amy Labrum: that there's a piece of this puzzle for lots of logistics. I mean, one thing I'm interested in is
[716.07] Frank: this sort of a case where, you know, when you're doing a drone delivery for the LHS, is it a case
[725.75] Frank: of, like you say, is a single patient's lab test or whatever in that capsule? Or is it a case of,
[735.27] Frank: oh, there's all sorts of things collected together from this hospital to that hospital? What's the
[741.75] Amy Labrum: sort of typical... So it is actually a real range of those things. So at the moment, we're working
[749.03] Amy Labrum: with pathology samples. And so at the moment, we're exclusively flying those samples. So it's not kind
[754.23] Amy Labrum: of different departments in the hospital. But there are some teams in the pathology lab who send
[760.15] Amy Labrum: a big volume of samples every day. And so we'll put multiple samples per delivery. There are other
[765.51] Amy Labrum: teams that are sending more urgent samples or those just-in-time deliveries. And so we may well
[769.59] Amy Labrum: carry one or two samples for that need. And the benefit of the on-demand system is that we can
[776.23] Amy Labrum: do that with that flexibility, you know, with a van that comes on a regular schedule. Everything
[781.27] Amy Labrum: has to wait for that van. And then it's subject to all the usual ground transportation things,
[785.99] Amy Labrum: whereas we are less restricted in that sense. And because the journey is so quick, if two different
[792.31] Amy Labrum: departments book deliveries, we can dispatch them very, very close in time to each other and not have
[797.35] Amy Labrum: to wait. So that's a real benefit, definitely. And are you going straight from helipads that
[804.15] Stephen: are local to the hospitals? Or do you have to get a bike for the first leg of the route out to your
[809.91] Amy Labrum: warehouse? How does that work? So in our current trial, we are based at the hospital, at Guy's
[815.91] Amy Labrum: hospital, which is great. So we do have, we work with the porters to get it from the lab through
[821.51] Amy Labrum: the nest. But that's within the building, you know, we're not talking about going to a warehouse or
[827.35] Amy Labrum: a field. And then one of the benefits and one of the reasons we identified Wing as the partner we
[833.43] Amy Labrum: would work with on this project is because the drone doesn't land, it does its delivery. And then
[837.51] Amy Labrum: off it goes back to it's to our hub. We deliver to a rooftop very close to the lab at St Thomas's.
[844.71] Amy Labrum: So we've got a designated zone that we've kind of marked out. But it's very, very low on the
[849.67] Amy Labrum: infrastructure side there. And the roof is secure. It's not accessible by the general public. Again,
[854.39] Amy Labrum: we're integrated with the portering system. And it's just part of their work. So now they know
[858.15] Amy Labrum: to come up and collect the parcels and take them to the lab. It takes a couple of minutes.
[861.67] Stephen: You said a wing there. So are you having to launch from a roof elsewhere? Or how does that work?
[869.27] Frank: This is the the alphabet wing. So this is all right. So it's a VTOL. Yeah.
[875.27] Stephen: Right. Okay. I was wondering if some porter on the roof has to do it.
[882.79] Curry: I was interested to know you've mentioned using different drone supplies for different
[887.59] Curry: capabilities. At the start, did you like go through a bunch? And did you sort of reject
[893.35] Curry: some because that's not working there? And did you sort of formulate what they couldn't do and
[897.99] Curry: what needed to be done? And basically, did you go through an iterative process of finding the
[901.75] Curry: right one? Or was it quite easy to get the right drone quite quickly?
[906.31] Amy Labrum: So in our history as APN, we've worked with a number of drone providers. We've had fantastic
[911.43] Amy Labrum: experience of working. I mentioned Skyports earlier. That was the first company I worked
[915.91] Amy Labrum: with at APN. And it was brilliant. The capability was a long range one and it suited that use case.
[924.31] Amy Labrum: And when we partnered with Wing, it was specifically with this use case in mind. And
[928.87] Amy Labrum: because, as I said, their extensive safety record and the work that they do in the States and in
[933.27] Amy Labrum: Australia and the amount of hours they have. So looking at that kind of like complex picture
[939.11] Amy Labrum: of central London, we had identified that Wing were the right partner for us on that one, for sure.
[946.39] Frank: So is that sort of a balance then that so you find sort of wings more sort of specific to
[954.15] Frank: that kind of highly dense urban environment? And then maybe for the sort of the rural
[962.63] Frank: challenge, then there's the Skyport solution is a better solution for that?
[969.35] Amy Labrum: Absolutely. So the work we do with Wing at the moment, we have around a 10 kilometre range.
[976.39] Amy Labrum: And so that means urban-suburban between hospitals works really, really well for that. It's a super
[982.71] Amy Labrum: lightweight drone. Takes a kilo payload on a five kilo drone. So kind of a lot of things stuck in its
[990.55] Amy Labrum: favour there around that urban-suburban use case. But of course, when you go to a rural trust like
[996.87] Amy Labrum: in Northumbria, the hospitals can be really spread out from each other. And so you do need
[1001.27] Amy Labrum: to look at a company that can provide a longer range. That's an interesting one.
[1011.27] Frank: This is the Wing with the AP and NHS payload underneath it there.
[1018.15] Curry: And that basically hovers and gets it lower down, doesn't it, on basically a string?
[1022.39] Amy Labrum: Exactly right. And it just gently lowers the package to the ground and then off it returns
[1027.99] Amy Labrum: back to the nest where the drones charge. I like the nest. It's a good term.
[1035.75] Stephen: So for the audio listeners, we've got a very interesting VTOL with I think a dozen propellers
[1041.51] Stephen: in the upwards direction and four forward. So that would be an interesting challenge.
[1048.15] Curry: Lots of a couple of windings in that. Yeah, it's kind of interesting. It's lots of motors
[1053.51] Curry: with smaller props as opposed to the regular sort of not so many motors with big props.
[1059.03] Curry: I wonder if that's more of a safety versus efficiency sort of decision.
[1064.23] Amy Labrum: I mean, of course, I'm not the expert on Wing's drone, but I do know that everything has been very
[1070.31] Amy Labrum: carefully designed with things like not just performance, but noise in mind. So I think that
[1077.27] Amy Labrum: they've put a lot of time and effort into iterating on so that they can integrate with
[1081.99] Amy Labrum: the community. And I know that that's really important to them as it is to us, you know,
[1086.71] Amy Labrum: being a part of the communities that we operate within. Yeah, and certainly another advantage of
[1092.69] Curry: that model that is if you lose one motor, you haven't got a situation because it can get
[1099.01] Amy Labrum: by fine with the other ones. Exactly right, exactly right.
[1103.33] Frank: Richard Warwick in the chat has a question. He's wondering how many flights a day or a week,
[1111.09] Frank: how frequent are you doing your flights at the moment?
[1115.17] Amy Labrum: So we at the moment, we're doing up to 10 a day between the hours of nine and four. So that meets
[1122.77] Amy Labrum: kind of the main bulk of the labs operating hours where they have the busiest throughput. And of
[1127.41] Amy Labrum: course, helps out with kind of like traffic flow on the ground. It's very busy during the day in
[1132.77] Amy Labrum: London. So operating between nine and four is a really good time for us to be kind of supplementing
[1137.57] Amy Labrum: that round journey 10 a day. And as I say, it's like, you know, coming up to two and a half thousand
[1143.89] Amy Labrum: samples that we've transferred. And that's across winter, right? So it's only going to get done.
[1150.93] Frank: Yeah, yeah, I think there was someone in the chat earlier, tailspin was saying one of the weaknesses
[1156.85] Frank: must be British weather. But presumably, if you if you're managing that in the middle of winter,
[1161.01] Frank: then it can't be that much of a challenge for you or you're overcoming it anyway.
[1166.69] Amy Labrum: Exactly. Yeah, exactly.
[1168.37] Frank: There's Robert left saying he's surprised none of us has asked for a job. Yeah, absolutely.
[1173.97] Frank: Very cool project.
[1175.33] Frank: It is very cool.
[1176.37] Stephen: What's the piloting situation like is it's all like entirely fully autonomous? Or do you have
[1181.25] Stephen: to have someone watching telemetry all the time ready to take over? How does that work?
[1186.21] Amy Labrum: Yeah, it's highly it's a highly automated system. So the drones and the system plans the routes,
[1191.73] Amy Labrum: they don't take the same route every time. And that's, again, developed with community cohesion
[1196.45] Amy Labrum: in mind and a whole bunch of other reasons. But they are kind of like watched over by a
[1200.93] Amy Labrum: train pilot in command. Not literally watch over, but you know, behind the screen. And we like to
[1207.01] Amy Labrum: think of them more like an air traffic controller than a pilot, you know, because they're not
[1210.85] Amy Labrum: driving the drone, the drone does that for themselves. But they are keeping an eye from
[1215.81] Frank: a safety point of view. Caroline in the chat has got a good question. What has been the reaction
[1223.01] Frank: of the public around the launch and landing nests? What have the neighbors thought?
[1228.13] Amy Labrum: I mean, that's a great question. And I'm really, really pleased to say, no reaction. No.
[1235.65] Amy Labrum: That is exactly what we want to see. So we did extensive community engagement. As I mentioned,
[1240.85] Amy Labrum: we kind of like spent time in the hospital with staff and patients and visitors. But we also
[1245.25] Amy Labrum: contacted and fired local residents. We gave them lots of ways to contact us and no one has.
[1252.37] Amy Labrum: I think the truth about this kind of service in central London is you would be hard pushed to see
[1257.89] Amy Labrum: or hear it. It's a busy high traffic area. They are incredibly quiet and they are very well
[1266.61] Amy Labrum: integrated into the airspace where we're operating. And so it's really lovely, you know,
[1273.97] Amy Labrum: when we first dreamt of this project, we kind of thought we were going to have to do things like
[1277.57] Amy Labrum: this and say, well, you know, there were this problem and that problem, but absolutely not.
[1281.89] Amy Labrum: And that's exactly what we want to see. This is normal. This is not something that we should all
[1286.45] Amy Labrum: be looking and staring at. It should just be part of what we do. I'm very glad it's not affected by
[1291.01] Stephen: the kind of nimbyism that slows down wind turbines and things like that. That's excellent.
[1296.61] Jack: If you want, we can put in a complaint that more of this isn't happening.
[1305.09] Amy Labrum: Bye-bye, Jack.
[1306.85] Frank: Robert, you said you can't imagine the hoops you guys had to jump through. I mean, being in the
[1312.21] Frank: central London, you've got a lot of very busy airspace there. You've got, you know, the city
[1317.81] Frank: airport, you've got all the heliports and all the helicopter traffic going up and down the river.
[1324.13] Frank: That must be a challenge.
[1327.17] Amy Labrum: I would be lying if I said it was easy. It wasn't easy. None of these things are, but we have had
[1334.37] Amy Labrum: incredible support from NATS and the CAA, and we've worked closely with Wing so that we could
[1339.73] Amy Labrum: move our way forward. We have, of course, I'm biased, but an incredibly talented
[1344.37] Amy Labrum: aviation regulatory team who have moved through. And the CAA have been really supportive of us,
[1351.17] Amy Labrum: which has been great. We were part of their sandbox project, and that really helped us to
[1356.37] Amy Labrum: form this airspace and do this trial. And we've been given a conditional approval for six more
[1362.85] Amy Labrum: months operating between Geyser and St. Thomas'. So, we're optimistic that we'll meet those
[1367.33] Curry: conditions and we'll be able to keep going. So, have you been basically given a corridor
[1373.41] Curry: that you can fly, and there's basically no over-air traffic around there to worry about?
[1378.21] Amy Labrum: Yeah. So, we've been given a corridor, and then we've put procedures in place. Of course,
[1382.77] Amy Labrum: our priority is always making sure emergency services can do their good work across the space.
[1388.37] Amy Labrum: So, we work closely, as I say, with NATS to support that. But we do have this corridor
[1393.89] Amy Labrum: of airspace, and it's no tandem. You'll kind of see it there that we'll be operating there Monday
[1398.85] Jack: to Friday. Cool. If you ever want to borrow a run cam off one of us to have a little ride along
[1411.49] Stephen: on promotional purposes, that's nice. Yeah. Do you have any video footage, in fact, of the
[1416.69] Amy Labrum: kind of drop-offs of supplies and so forth? So, we have done some filming in the early days,
[1427.41] Amy Labrum: but actually, the drone itself isn't equipped with any kind of cameras that can be used for
[1433.49] Amy Labrum: that sort of thing, for very good reason. So, outside of designated filming that we would do
[1439.89] Amy Labrum: with a separate company doing separate work, one of the real benefits of Wing's drone is that they
[1445.81] Amy Labrum: capture only very low resolution black and white footage that is just for navigational purposes.
[1452.69] Stephen: Yes, we are, unfortunately, familiar with all the regulations and flexities surrounding them.
[1457.41] Frank: That sounds like some of Jack's drones. I don't think it intends them to be, but...
[1462.13] Stephen: Just doesn't focus the lens properly. That's how we fly into trees too much.
[1467.33] Frank: So, Caroline asks as well, are you having to avoid manned routes? So, I guess sort of the
[1475.57] Frank: question there as well is, are you taking the river route because that's a nice safe route
[1481.89] Frank: or are you having to avoid the river because that's where all the helicopters are?
[1485.25] Amy Labrum: So, the route we take at the moment is an absolute direct route between the two which
[1491.57] Amy Labrum: doesn't go across the river. Of course, the heli route there has an important priority,
[1497.25] Amy Labrum: but one of the things that makes London not completely unique but different to other projects
[1505.57] Amy Labrum: is because it's controlled airspace and so you have different challenges with that airspace,
[1511.01] Amy Labrum: but what you don't have is the kind of uncontrolled airspace where you're working
[1516.45] Amy Labrum: with lots of other people in the air. So, we have just one sort of direct corridor,
[1521.73] Amy Labrum: it's a nice short route which gives us those really quick delivery times which is a real benefit.
[1527.49] Amy Labrum: And then, as I say, we just integrate and support those
[1531.89] Amy Labrum: helicopter missions or anything that needs to be in the space we're in.
[1536.69] Frank: Mm-hmm. And then, on the other side of things, I mean, we were talking as well that you've got
[1542.85] Frank: sort of your urban-suburban solution, but then on the other side of things you've got
[1547.41] Frank: these sort of long-distance rural routes. Presumably, you've got a whole different
[1553.25] Frank: set of hoops to jump through for anything like that.
[1556.85] Amy Labrum: That's right, yeah. So, of course, specifically on the aviation regulatory side,
[1561.57] Amy Labrum: with any kind of airspace change, you're talking about engagement with the community,
[1567.09] Amy Labrum: with the aviation community, the pilot community. It's something that our team really sort of
[1573.65] Amy Labrum: looks forward to being a part of because we learn every time. We kind of get the feedback
[1578.05] Amy Labrum: from the community about how this is going to work long-term. It's not an easy thing to do,
[1583.33] Amy Labrum: and these are all the big changes that the UK is looking to make. I'm not a regulation expert,
[1588.53] Amy Labrum: neither am I. But it does come with entirely different challenges. And then, if you think
[1593.65] Amy Labrum: about Northumbria Trust, where we were working a couple of years ago, you've also got the fact
[1598.29] Amy Labrum: that it's coastal, you've got salty sea air, and we kind of provide a whole host of different
[1604.37] Amy Labrum: challenges too. So, it's not just the ground logistics and the hospital infrastructure and
[1611.17] Amy Labrum: the airspace. You've also kind of got that weather and that air, and the way you kind of fly has to
[1616.37] Amy Labrum: be different. So, yeah, I spent a lot of time in a field with a very thick coat on, battling some
[1626.13] Frank: pretty gnarly weather, yeah. Andy, I'll see you in the chat, asks,
[1631.57] Frank: are there any limitations that stop flights such as a named storm with very strong winds?
[1638.69] Amy Labrum: Of course, of course. So, the drones are incredibly resilient, but there are situations that it
[1644.85] Amy Labrum: wouldn't be safe to operate. But apart from the drone, we have very real considerations for the
[1651.73] Amy Labrum: human safety of accessing a roof space. So, named storms with very strong winds have not fallen in
[1658.69] Amy Labrum: our favour, although a lot of them have been over the weekend, which hasn't been too bad so far.
[1664.05] Amy Labrum: For the safety of the people who have to access the roof to put the drones out and get them prepped,
[1668.53] Amy Labrum: a lot of the time when we're stopping it's for that. It's to make sure that the people can be
[1672.37] Frank: safe when they're prepping for our operations. Another question from Robert in the chat is
[1680.29] Frank: asking, how many units do you guys have in use at one time? Have you got a fleet going all over
[1686.21] Frank: the place, or is this the case of like you've got one that you keep in action and you've got a few
[1691.01] Amy Labrum: backups ready to go? So, we have a four-drone setup up there on the nest at Guy's Hospital,
[1701.89] Amy Labrum: but we only ever have one drone in the air at the time at the moment.
[1706.37] Amy Labrum: So, we are of course working with the regulator always to look at what we can do next. I know
[1713.25] Amy Labrum: that we can do some really incredible things over in the States in Australia with one to many.
[1721.25] Amy Labrum: We know that the future of drone delivery looks like that, but for now we are
[1726.05] Amy Labrum: one drone at a time. But as I say, this journey is so short that we've got the four drones all
[1731.25] Amy Labrum: ready to go. When one comes back, the next one can be ready to dispatch and the system works
[1736.21] Amy Labrum: really well that way. If you were kind of doing 10-15 minute journeys, it might feel a little bit
[1741.01] Frank: slower, but for us in this use case, it's absolutely perfect. Is it a case where at the moment,
[1747.41] Frank: with the one in London, is that considered a line of sight operation or is that beyond
[1752.21] Frank: visual line of sight? It's because of everything in the way.
[1756.61] Amy Labrum: Actually, the pilot sits over in St Pancras, like nowhere near the operations and the
[1763.57] Amy Labrum: system is highly automated. So, it is a BV loss operation.
[1769.57] Frank: That's been sort of the talk of the day, I guess, for a little while with the CAA is how to
[1778.93] Frank: permit BV loss operations, what's required, how can you ensure safety. So, the fact that you've
[1784.85] Frank: been doing that in multiple locations and have been doing that successfully, like you say,
[1791.01] Frank: not annoying the neighbors, that bodes well that that's a thing that can be done and not just
[1798.61] Frank: around the controlled spaces around wind turbines. You're actually doing this in
[1805.81] Frank: proper urban environments. That's quite exciting.
[1809.49] Amy Labrum: Yeah, and I think I'm really excited to see what comes in the next year or two from
[1817.01] Amy Labrum: drone companies and innovators and startups that are working in this space and from the regulator.
[1823.49] Amy Labrum: I think we're all on the cusp of these big changes that are really exciting.
[1829.09] Amy Labrum: And of course, for me, it is about the use case, but to be able to serve people, to help them
[1837.89] Amy Labrum: well and stay healthy, it is a really exciting time. My background is that my dad worked for
[1847.73] Amy Labrum: Airbus building airplane wings and my mom's just celebrated 25 years working for the NHS.
[1852.21] Amy Labrum: So, this is the culmination of a lifetime to be able to work on this project.
[1859.73] Stephen: So, are you waiting for any kind of key dates? We're aware that regulations have a habit
[1864.61] Stephen: of changing and often providing thuddingly unhelpful advice. As a hobbyist, we're kind of
[1871.41] Stephen: used to that and it's a bit annoying, but it could really change the direction your business is
[1876.45] Stephen: going in. Are there any kind of big signposts you're waiting for or big regulatory announcements
[1882.53] Amy Labrum: that are coming up in 2025 or 26? Well, I think the recent announcement around the
[1891.01] Amy Labrum: Rio is a really good one and kind of some of the stuff that's been in the news this week around
[1896.61] Amy Labrum: changes that are looking to be made. We know that the CAA are sort of doing their best with what
[1905.81] Amy Labrum: they have and what we've certainly seen is that the CAA wants to enable this kind of work. It wants
[1913.25] Amy Labrum: to look at these kind of life-changing use cases and integrate the airspace and get drones involved
[1920.61] Amy Labrum: and I think there's some exciting things to come. I think that this year is a big one for
[1926.93] Amy Labrum: the European and for the UK and we kind of look forward to what's coming there. I was really
[1935.41] Stephen: pleased to... I'll put that through the decoder and see if we can figure out which bit of
[1939.73] Frank: legislation we're talking about later. It's the regulatory innovation office.
[1945.49] Frank: Oh, thank you, thank you. There we go. It's sort of not exactly aviation but it's
[1954.93] Frank: more about encouraging adoption of new technology to solve problems. So some kind of incentives and
[1966.29] Frank: trying to help upcoming technology get around the red tape that's been built around existing
[1972.53] Frank: technology. That's sort of my very nutshell understanding of it. That would be nice because I
[1978.93] Stephen: guess many people's concern is that all we're going to end up seeing is Amazon drones everywhere.
[1985.65] Frank: We'd rather not have that if possible. This episode was recorded in front of a live online
[1991.49] Frank: audience, downloaded and edited to make sense when it played audio only, censored to please
[1996.61] Frank: the iTunes people, hosted on the internet, forwarded through to your podcast provider,
[2000.45] Frank: downloaded, playing on your device and is now playing in your ears. All thanks to our
[2005.33] Frank: Patreons. Consider joining them and you'll also get other online benefits. Find out more
[2010.53] Frank: at patreon.com forward slash let's drone out. It's been great to see sort of what you've been
[2016.93] Frank: doing. I mean like you say you've been working with different drone operators to be able to
[2023.17] Frank: provide the logistics for the IHS. How much is that just sort of a case of you knowing the IHS
[2031.97] Frank: and then engaging just a a drone operator to just move this package please and how much have you
[2038.93] Frank: had to sort of work with the the drone operators whether that's wing or sky ports into getting
[2046.45] Frank: something custom to be to be able to do you know move a medical package.
[2054.05] Amy Labrum: So all of the drone operators we've worked with so far kind of have some kind of payload bay cargo
[2061.97] Amy Labrum: cargo bay but with the kind of use cases we're working with we need to look at like temperature
[2066.69] Amy Labrum: validation. We need to look at making sure that the integrity of the package remains
[2071.17] Amy Labrum: across the duration of the journey which again is totally different on a two minute flight versus
[2076.29] Amy Labrum: a 20 minute flight and so we have a health care team part of which is focused on this
[2084.37] Amy Labrum: validation and that means looking for packaging solutions that can provide the integrity make
[2090.21] Amy Labrum: sure we stay temperature controlled that the sample stays safe and then we then work really
[2095.57] Amy Labrum: closely with the trust to build out a scientific validation plan and enact that and that's the
[2100.21] Amy Labrum: first thing we do in every operation is to make sure that all parties are happy with the kind of
[2106.13] Amy Labrum: results of that before we move through to real samples. So when we talk about serving 2,000
[2110.85] Amy Labrum: patients that's post-validation we did a considerable amount of work before that to enable
[2116.61] Amy Labrum: those patient samples to make sure they were safe. So that's kind of like one of the fun
[2122.13] Amy Labrum: challenges in the run up you know you're looking at how many samples can you fit in a particular
[2126.77] Amy Labrum: shaped box or a particular shaped bay, how much packaging do you need around it to keep it in the
[2131.81] Amy Labrum: right temperature, is it room temperature, fridge temperature and how long does it need to maintain.
[2138.29] Amy Labrum: So we've got all kinds of cool graphs and science nerds in my team kind of like love
[2144.61] Amy Labrum: looking at those and making sure things are staying in there in the right place at the
[2148.61] Frank: right time for sure. But they sound like there'd be some great spreadsheets.
[2153.09] Stephen: Excellent spreadsheets, so many good spreadsheets. Does that kind of push you towards maybe
[2159.25] Stephen: when you grow the base of kind of standard size drones that you start to reach out into more
[2164.85] Stephen: unique form factors or for unique payload types go larger, go smaller and so forth,
[2171.09] Amy Labrum: are you planning any of that? Yeah so as we work with new trusts and as we identify new use cases
[2177.73] Amy Labrum: we start with those requirements. So how many things do you transport, how do they need to be
[2182.45] Amy Labrum: transported, what's the safest way to do that. And so I do expect over time and with scale
[2190.77] Amy Labrum: there will be a number of things that are not bespoke, you know the number of standards that
[2194.45] Amy Labrum: we will kind of like maintain and roll out across trust by trust but there will always be things,
[2200.37] Amy Labrum: you know we need something bigger, we need something, we need to carry a heavier thing,
[2204.13] Amy Labrum: we need it to maintain a specific very small temperature range and this all kind of like
[2209.25] Amy Labrum: adds to our knowledge base and our expertise and part of what we do as that healthcare integrator
[2214.69] Amy Labrum: is to be able to provide the assurance around that. It's something that you know drone operators
[2219.49] Amy Labrum: don't always want to do, they don't always want to as well as looking at the technology flying the
[2226.93] Amy Labrum: flying the drones, they don't want to then be worrying about these kind of like extra
[2230.93] Amy Labrum: packaging requirements and so that's one of the things that we're quite happy to be
[2235.33] Stephen: building out as part of our service. How much are you going into manufacturing? It sounds like
[2240.93] Stephen: you've got quite sophisticated payload base but you manufacture other portions or are you
[2246.85] Stephen: keen to buy ready-made beetles from other companies? So in terms of like packaging we're
[2254.77] Amy Labrum: using off the shelf at the moment, there's a number of things out there that we can absolutely use
[2260.77] Amy Labrum: but as we look to maximize the capacity we may well start to look at something more bespoke but
[2266.21] Amy Labrum: at the moment we stick with off the shelf and that's because there's only so many things you
[2269.89] Amy Labrum: can kind of add to your list of things to do. I was thinking because you were describing
[2278.37] Stephen: refrigeration requirements and things and oh wouldn't it be neat if that was kind of
[2282.69] Stephen: included into the main chassis of the product but that's a tall order for a small team certainly.
[2289.01] Amy Labrum: I think so and we often talk about active cooling in this kind of like you know
[2294.37] Amy Labrum: light comes down and that's the obvious answer but you know to move at the pace we have done
[2301.09] Amy Labrum: we've had to identify what's going to work for us that's already out there often that's already
[2305.49] Stephen: a validated solution so companies. Of course in this kind of regulated environment it could take
[2311.17] Stephen: years to go from an idea that actually works for you to an idea that you can take out in the
[2316.53] Curry: general public and use right. Exactly right. Just following on from the refrigeration question
[2322.53] Curry: when I think of stuff that's like time critical medical wise the instant thought tends to be organ
[2328.05] Curry: transplant at the moment that's like give it to a motorcycle courier get him off to a hospital
[2332.85] Curry: really quickly. I suppose we're in the sort of that's the running and we're the walking at the
[2337.65] Curry: moment do you think there's it can get there because I'm thinking that would have to because
[2341.97] Curry: it could come from different hospitals you'd literally have to have some network set up between
[2345.57] Curry: every single NHS trust to get them over there but do you think that that could be where things
[2349.89] Amy Labrum: are heading in the future? Well I wouldn't be me if I said no of course I do of course I think
[2355.97] Amy Labrum: that's the future and I don't just think that's the future I know that you know the way this
[2361.17] Amy Labrum: works best is a network you know we often say the rising tide floats or boats you know there's a
[2367.81] Amy Labrum: number of different operators doing different things and so a cooperative environment in which
[2373.73] Amy Labrum: you can transit things between a number of hospitals without having one fixed route with
[2379.17] Amy Labrum: one fixed place to start and one fixed place to finish has to be the future of serving our NHS
[2385.81] Amy Labrum: and serving our healthcare and I and you know I think it will get there I think it will get
[2392.45] Amy Labrum: there sooner than we think I'm optimistic that we can see that change and that's kind of like the
[2399.09] Amy Labrum: big stuff that's the stuff that really changes people's lives is getting an organ to someone
[2406.05] Amy Labrum: like they're life-changing minutes and I think drones are a big part of that story I think it's
[2412.05] Frank: coming. Excellent I think that's something we'll all love to hear. Do you think the
[2421.36] Frank: the challenges are predominantly technical or legislative or is it even sort of I imagine
[2430.08] Frank: there's challenges just within the organizational structure of the NHS do you think there's any of
[2435.36] Amy Labrum: those that are like the big challenge you have to solve? Oh if only there was only one big challenge
[2444.08] Stephen: what about getting all the NHS systems to actually talk to each other that would be
[2447.84] Amy Labrum: something to start with right? Well I mean you could have one of my engineers on here talking
[2452.8] Amy Labrum: about that that's kind of all bread and butter you know our platform and that integration is
[2458.08] Amy Labrum: is the little bit of magic that helps helps those systems kind of operate together.
[2465.44] Amy Labrum: So you know I've got nothing but good things to say about the CAA and they've got us to where
[2472.4] Amy Labrum: we are today but I think they know and we know that there's some there's some big challenges
[2478.08] Amy Labrum: ahead to to move this sector forward integrating in healthcare the kind of the human logistics
[2486.16] Amy Labrum: of that as well be it portering and kind of like getting people trained and on board with the idea
[2493.04] Amy Labrum: of drones you know that that does take time but we are becoming the experts and and every time
[2501.44] Amy Labrum: it's a little bit quicker. I don't think there's one particular thing but I do think that you know
[2509.12] Amy Labrum: the support that the government is talking about at the moment around driving forward
[2514.24] Amy Labrum: innovation and moving forward these emerging sectors is a good sign that we're going to start
[2521.36] Amy Labrum: to break down some of those barriers which is exciting to see but you know who knows either way
[2529.04] Amy Labrum: we're here and we're going to keep plugging away make these changes and we know because when we
[2534.56] Amy Labrum: talk to the lab staff and the clinical directors that it does make a difference and we have to
[2540.08] Amy Labrum: hold on to that and keep fighting for that we got here and we're going to keep going you know
[2545.68] Frank: we're not going to stop because it gets harder. It's great to hear that you've you've sort of
[2553.28] Frank: had these big challenges I mean any one of those challenges seems like a massive challenge if you
[2557.68] Frank: want to make a big change in an organization as big as the IHS that's a massive challenge if you
[2562.72] Frank: want to do some beef loss operations in the UK in an urban environment that seems like a massive
[2569.68] Frank: challenge if you you know want to do the you know having your own custom built medical sample
[2579.12] Frank: container working with a load of different drone systems that seems like a massive challenge it
[2583.84] Frank: seems like you've made this enormous progress on all three at the same time and that's that's
[2589.6] Frank: quite impressive. How big is your team to manage all this? So we're still a very small company
[2597.52] Amy Labrum: there's 25 of us in the company and you know I would say we do the work of at least 50 people
[2605.68] Amy Labrum: very good with a cheerful smile incredibly passionate people that I work with but it's
[2613.68] Amy Labrum: we don't do it alone it's not apian it's apian and it's Guy's and St Thomas's and it's Novus and
[2622.16] Amy Labrum: CAA and Nats and Wing and you know it is a real partnership what we're doing I'm sure I will have
[2627.92] Amy Labrum: forgotten someone on someone I'll be saying hey so we couldn't have got here alone and we won't
[2634.16] Amy Labrum: get to the next stage alone that support and the kind of environment in which you operate where
[2639.04] Amy Labrum: you get teams of people that are on board with making those changes or looking at what's in the
[2645.28] Amy Labrum: rules and how we can make the rules work for us you know we're not looking at bending the rules
[2649.04] Amy Labrum: we're just making it work in this kind of system that's how we do it you know we work together
[2655.76] Amy Labrum: and we are we always talk about this sort of virtual team and you know I'm at our home in
[2660.4] Amy Labrum: my remote office we're a remote business but also we kind of work these remote teams with our
[2665.92] Amy Labrum: partners we sit with them we problem solve and that is a really rewarding way to work and I think
[2672.4] Amy Labrum: it's the way that you move forward is accepting that you know apian can't do everything we don't
[2676.72] Amy Labrum: have the answers for everything but there are people out there who do and we've been lucky so
[2681.28] Amy Labrum: far to form these partnerships that have got us to this stage and yeah you know yeah it's very
[2692.08] Frank: impressive yeah so has there been any points where you've had to go well actually this is
[2700.96] Frank: this is currently a limitation we can't do this you know that this is not something we can get
[2707.12] Frank: into is there something that sort of stops you in any direction uh that's a quite a difficult
[2714.72] Amy Labrum: question to answer but I think I'll sort of answer it by saying that yes but one of the
[2722.48] Amy Labrum: biggest challenges we face is we kind of want to do everything you kind of get into that
[2727.84] Amy Labrum: crap of a lot of startups of you know this youth case and this youth case and we can help these
[2733.2] Amy Labrum: people and those people I'll say no it's really hard particularly when you're meeting with people
[2739.28] Amy Labrum: you know we get these wonderful emails from from doctors in the NHS saying you know I desperately
[2744.56] Amy Labrum: need this service this is going to make such a difference and what we want to do is drop
[2749.28] Amy Labrum: everything and what we're currently doing and going help that person um and so it is a big
[2754.24] Amy Labrum: challenge for us to kind of look at how we grow uh it's it's a lesson that we've learned over the
[2760.72] Amy Labrum: years certainly I've been apian and I think it's something that you know hopefully we're we've
[2765.36] Amy Labrum: cracked I feel like we have but you know focusing on the first youth case and getting that right
[2771.76] Amy Labrum: and looking to bring on new youth cases and grow the service more naturally from inside
[2778.48] Amy Labrum: is is the way we've done it with certainly with guys in St Thomas's and Sanovus and it's worked
[2785.84] Amy Labrum: really well so far and we do kind of now hear about more youth cases and more things we can do
[2791.36] Amy Labrum: and we can only grow from here uh and so that's that is a tough thing to learn in a startup
[2797.68] Amy Labrum: definitely I think startups attract the kind of people that just want to do a little bit more and
[2803.36] Frank: a little bit more so yeah and to and to do the the whole length you know the whole the whole
[2810.08] Frank: journey as well which I have a lot of admiration for what apian have done where I've said well
[2816.32] Frank: actually our it feels anyway from from the outside it looks like you've you've kind of gone
[2822.16] Frank: our core capabilities are working with the lhs and our links we have there the relationships
[2828.08] Frank: that we've built with the cea and actually you know those are massive things that we've
[2833.28] Frank: put a lot of effort into and built up and actually the the the technical challenges of having
[2839.84] Frank: something fly through the sky we can let someone else solve those problems uh and and we can work
[2846.72] Frank: with them to solve the problems we're we're we're solving um I think that's you know going from
[2853.52] Frank: trying to build everything and do everything all yourselves to be that partner up with
[2858.56] Frank: you know people that are very specifically you know wing for example all skyports being like
[2863.68] Frank: they they have put the the money and effort into building something that flies and that is a a
[2868.96] Frank: platform that flies and we're focusing on all the all the politics that we have seen time time again
[2876.32] Frank: stops the drone from flying um you're you've been solving those problems which are much
[2882.88] Frank: less rewarding to to think about but you've you've done an absolutely fantastic job of
[2889.44] Frank: of solving those problems and getting to that point here something is flying across london
[2894.48] Stephen: and doing something useful can i also just say it's it's really heartening to see a startup as
[2899.92] Stephen: startups are often defined by their their first customers who change the shape of the company to
[2904.96] Stephen: see a drone startup that's whose first customer is a a good health care institution and is shaping
[2912.08] Stephen: the company in a really nice way to do positive things it's excellent thanks i think so too
[2920.08] Frank: i i said at the beginning uh that you in your own right qualified drone operator do you do you
[2926.64] Amy Labrum: still fly in any aspect at all well i have to say my mavic is looking very dusty for my show
[2935.28] Amy Labrum: i actually let my um professional qualifications lapse last year uh and that is simply because of
[2943.76] Amy Labrum: my capacity uh my time so i i was running out of it and something had to give but i i stumbled upon
[2952.96] Amy Labrum: flying a drone sort of by accident through circumstance which i think many people do and
[2959.52] Amy Labrum: absolutely fell in love with it you know it was like a a kid with a toy um and they ran a
[2965.76] Amy Labrum: videography business and filmed for weddings and absolutely loved it but the mavic is still there
[2972.16] Amy Labrum: and um you know my mom's asked me to go and do some photos of her house with it for example
[2978.0] Amy Labrum: i'm sure it will get some good use over the years um but not in the same capacity as it used to
[2984.56] Frank: there's one thing that we haven't spoken about i mean with with the other occasions we've talked
[2988.8] Frank: about uh Northumberland and the rural rural countryside there and we've talked about being
[2993.52] Frank: in the middle of London uh we mentioned Solent um which is a bit before your time what about
[2999.76] Amy Labrum: Dublin what have you been doing in Dublin uh so we uh ran a project over in Dublin last year
[3008.56] Amy Labrum: again with Wing and we were working with um hospitals there to deliver medical devices
[3015.2] Amy Labrum: uh we had a great trial period there we operated for three months uh and it was incredibly
[3024.56] Amy Labrum: successful we delivered a whole range of different devices uh and again we got that great feedback
[3032.32] Amy Labrum: from the trust so the interesting thing about medical devices is instead of looking directly
[3038.08] Amy Labrum: at patient care what you're looking at is getting um storage out of the hospital you know freeing
[3043.28] Amy Labrum: up more space in the hospital for patient care and sort of demonstrating that if we can get
[3047.52] Amy Labrum: something to you on demand just in time when you need it you don't need to store it and then do
[3052.0] Amy Labrum: stock management yourself um so we um we did our our trial operations there and we you know we have
[3059.84] Amy Labrum: continued interest in Dublin in general we've had a really rewarding experience working with
[3065.36] Amy Labrum: regulators there and the health care there and companies that operate over in Dublin but
[3069.6] Amy Labrum: we're not currently flying there um but yeah it's fantastic even just from my perspective
[3074.32] Amy Labrum: i got to uh spend plenty of time over in Dublin which was um and yeah it it taught us a lot we
[3082.0] Amy Labrum: learned a lot everything we do we learn more but that was a suburban environment so again
[3087.84] Amy Labrum: it's like slightly different to right in the center of London um and so a whole different
[3093.6] Amy Labrum: range of things we were like smack bang in the middle of the community and so taking off of
[3097.36] Amy Labrum: London from right in the middle of the community so a whole different thing again
[3102.48] Frank: and have you got any other any other projects lined up or is starting to form that you can
[3108.56] Amy Labrum: share with us this evening uh so we are um always looking for what's next we've got some exciting
[3115.28] Amy Labrum: things in the pipeline um and you know i can't can't say in too much detail we're excited to
[3124.0] Amy Labrum: keep growing to do more you know i always say we just never want to stop we always
[3130.8] Amy Labrum: keep going and add on and that is the plan for this year and next year is um to see what see
[3137.2] Amy Labrum: what we can do to keep going and and to do more yeah is that i was going to say if people want
[3142.88] Stephen: to know more what's the best way to to find out more about you as well if people are interested
[3148.56] Amy Labrum: so you can check out our website which is apn.aero and there's contact details on there for um like
[3154.64] Amy Labrum: on our FAQ page so if you want to ask questions you can always get in touch with us and reach out
[3158.88] Amy Labrum: what can we do to help uh great question i think you know for us it's just about
[3169.12] Amy Labrum: keeping the focus on health care i like i feel really strongly that you know community the
[3175.44] Amy Labrum: community of people who use airspace for a whole host of reasons you know drone pilots and general
[3181.84] Amy Labrum: aviation and you know air traffic controllers and everyone who kind of operates within this space
[3187.6] Amy Labrum: i think to come together and keep moving forward and innovating and working together is important
[3193.04] Amy Labrum: and um you know we want to be cooperative with everyone um and so coming with the same spirit
[3200.08] Frank: is important i think absolutely um so do you do you think the the the few the sort of near future
[3209.04] Frank: for apn is it are you focusing on adding more locations or uh working with different hardware
[3217.2] Frank: or just just building up your uh your links with nhs organizations and and having more sort of
[3226.0] Frank: more people use the services your your your you've you've developed and expanding those
[3231.76] Frank: where do you think your your growth areas are at the moment so for sure we're looking at um
[3237.44] Amy Labrum: the continued and growing use of our current operations um we want to add more locations
[3244.88] Amy Labrum: we want to we want to do more with that but that takes that's a process that's not a process we
[3249.92] Amy Labrum: we've started yet um but certainly doing more with what we've got delivering more of those
[3258.48] Amy Labrum: important use cases you know we certainly are spending a lot of time in geys and st thomas's
[3263.28] Amy Labrum: talking to other departments about maybe how they can be a part of it too uh i'm excited to see
[3269.68] Amy Labrum: what we get to with that in the coming you know weeks weeks not months you know we're kind of
[3274.88] Amy Labrum: actively looking to what we can add into our portfolio there but certainly it's about
[3279.84] Amy Labrum: growing with the nhs you know serving serving more people through serving more more of the nhs
[3286.24] Amy Labrum: uh and and certainly the champions we have i think guys and st thomas's have have already
[3292.56] Amy Labrum: been a big part of that you know introducing us to their colleagues and um we're having some
[3297.84] Frank: really rewarding conversations around that excellent i've seen uh gigawatts fpv in the
[3304.16] Frank: chat has been offering a an air centrifuge service which i think maybe is not what you're
[3310.24] Frank: going for but there we go there's there's that offer there um before we sign off today we should
[3320.16] Frank: probably also uh maybe mention that we've um uh from a few weeks back we had on celestial drone
[3331.28] Frank: shows uh and me and and jack we we went and saw them uh do in south hampton on saturday they
[3342.72] Frank: held their show and we got to go backstage and and and watch them there so anyone that's listening
[3349.68] Frank: and and wants to hear more about that then you can go to our patreon channel and at some point
[3357.68] Frank: we will get around to sharing more details about that so uh that's something to look forward to
[3363.6] Frank: uh to any of our listeners that want to join us on patreon um amy uh is there anything else
[3372.32] Frank: you want to share with us this evening before we before we sign off no i just really appreciate
[3378.08] Amy Labrum: the appreciate the time and it's been really great to chat to you i hope that it's been interesting
[3382.08] Frank: oh you are fascinating thank you so much for coming on thank you you're amazing it's been
[3389.52] Frank: great to hear about about what you've been doing and uh yeah i've been enjoying following the
[3395.84] Frank: the apian story since the the sullen trials and i i will carry on doing so i look forward to seeing
[3402.88] Frank: way you go building more more into your services and hopefully expanding this elsewhere we should
[3409.2] Frank: definitely try and uh when we're next in london we we should go go keep an eye out see if we see
[3416.8] Stephen: anything flying over well keep an eye out for articles of you and the news in the coming year
[3423.2] Frank: watch the space yeah thanks guys appreciate it thank you well uh that's the end of our show this
[3434.48] Frank: week you have been listening to let's drone out and you have been joined this week by amy thank
[3442.0] Frank: you very much for coming from apian and talking about nhs logistics with drones uh you've been
[3448.96] Frank: joined by brydon tellify jack been sitting in the corner quietly admiring everything that has been
[3455.52] Jack: going on yeah hopefully i didn't upset you amy not not all guests but you you do speak very nicely
[3463.68] Jack: so i have no reason to quarrel with you uh you have been joined by stephen thank you for coming
[3471.84] Frank: on thank you very much everyone and i've been andrew slash frank uh i hope to speak with you
[3479.36] Frank: in a couple of weeks time about scale fpv and head tracking um and next week fingers crossed we will
[3488.4] Frank: have andrew lawrence on talking about his very high speed filming drones chasing very fast cars
[3498.32] Frank: that is very dependent on his availability uh which as you can appreciate depends on
[3503.92] Frank: the gigs he's got on at the time but hopefully we'll get him on and talking about that next week
[3508.88] Frank: so join us next week for episode 499 of let's drone out thank you very much uh thank you to
[3517.52] Frank: all our patrons for keeping the show going uh and getting a nice audio only edited podcast
[3524.56] Frank: every weekend in your podcast inboxes every sunday afternoon uh thank you very much and goodbye
[3533.92] Frank: thanks everyone bye telemetry lost