=== Let's Drone Out — Episode 506 ===
Title: LDO 506 - Circular References
Recorded: 2025-05-08
Hosts: Andrew "Frank" Hyams, Stephen "Belrik" Howell, Wayne "CurryKitten" Andrews, Jack "Brightontillifly" Nash
Guest(s): (none recorded)
Total audience: 858
Platforms: YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6Y-eoRuXqY); SoundCloud (http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/feeds.soundcloud.com/stream/2093378229-letsdroneout-ldo-506-circular-references.mp3)
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[0.0] Jack: Hello, and you're listening to Let's Drone Out, a special thank you to our lovely patrons
[6.28] Jack: that help donate so that we can pay the editor to remove the swear words and silly things
[11.36] Jack: we say.
[13.0] Jack: Massive thank you to…
[14.4] Jack: Carlos Campos!
[16.0] Jack: Art Faulkner.
[17.84] Frank: Sam Dahmer.
[19.68] Frank: On with the show.
[20.68] Jack: Hello, and welcome to Let's Drone Out, the night we are joined by our Lord and Saviour
[57.22] Jack: Andrew S. Frank.
[58.7] Jack: Good evening.
[59.7] Jack: Everyone's favourite curry kitten.
[62.5] Jack: Hello.
[63.5] Jack: Back from Amsterdam, our man, Stephen.
[68.38] Jack: Hello, nice to see everyone.
[72.06] Jack: And I am your host, Brode To My Fly, and if you are over a nervous disposition or suffer
[82.18] Jack: from high blood pressure, please leave and return to the show in about 10 minutes.
[91.06] Frank: Yeah, skip the first few minutes, we'll skip over that.
[97.58] Jack: So what's happened, Frank?
[99.22] Frank: We've also got legal notice scrolling across the bottom here, do not take legal advice
[104.38] Frank: from podcasts, that is also relevant.
[110.26] Frank: So this morning, promptly at 9 o'clock this morning, the CAA published their consultation
[122.82] Frank: reply document and recommendations for regulations moving forward.
[128.1] Frank: So there was a consultation…
[129.1] Stephen: Well, we got all our feedback and we were all very thorough and very careful, so I imagine
[132.66] Stephen: they really listened to us, haven't they?
[134.34] Stephen: Tell us what they've done.
[136.1] Frank: Yes, so they've had a good few thousand respondents, most of whom were over 60, 70 odd percent
[148.26] Frank: were model flyers, 98% were men, and that's sort of, you know, just giving that as a bit
[157.1] Frank: of colour, a bit of context.
[163.34] Frank: Usually everyone says, yeah, don't increase the regulations, don't do remote ID, don't
[171.78] Frank: stress about it, do simplify it, that's all we want, is for you to simplify the rules
[176.14] Frank: that are already there, make it clearer.
[180.74] Frank: So of course what they've said is that based on this overwhelming, you know, singular feeling
[189.9] Frank: for what should be done with the regulations, they're going to bring in remote ID in 2028
[199.78] Frank: and they are going to reduce the minimum weight limit for all the various requirements for
[211.34] Frank: operator IDs and all that kind of thing from 250 grams to 100 grams.
[218.1] Frank: So I'm expecting in the next few days for there to be an announcement for the DJI Neo99
[227.94] Frank: flake coming out, that's what I'm expecting, but there we go, that's just being slightly
[235.62] Frank: cynical about it all.
[238.22] Frank: They have, to be fair to them, they have agreed that they're going to rename the, because
[245.1] Frank: there's a lot of like letter number characters going around across all the new regulations
[251.78] Frank: and it is quite hard to keep straight what means what, how they all relate to each other.
[257.54] Frank: So they have decided that instead of going A1, A2, A3, they're going to go over people,
[265.02] Frank: near people, far from people and that they're using over near and far instead of A1, A2,
[272.86] Frank: A3.
[274.3] Jack: This is really small, they're far away.
[284.34] Frank: Yeah, that's pretty much it.
[286.14] Frank: I mean, we don't know for sure what remote ID is going to look like, but it's probably
[291.7] Frank: going to be the same that's in the EU and the US where it's like a mix of Wi-Fi stuff
[297.78] Frank: and Bluetooth stuff.
[300.22] Frank: You know, there's a lot on the market already that do those that are, say, 90 or 100 local
[310.34] Frank: currency units that have the GPS in them and the battery in them, but equally there's 30
[319.98] Frank: currency units that will get you a board that will take from a flight controller and it's
[325.26] Frank: just basically an ESP32, so you could probably end up making it yourself for fairly cheap
[329.34] Frank: as well.
[330.34] Frank: Where it takes the GPS location and whatever else from your flight controller, the serial
[337.9] Frank: number and an operator ID and broadcast that out over Wi-Fi and or Bluetooth to the local
[346.86] Frank: area so that it can be picked up with a phone and that's what the remote ID is looking like
[354.5] Stephen: and it's probably going to be something like that.
[359.46] Stephen: You mentioned it was in a document.
[360.7] Stephen: I didn't see where the document came from, but it's Wi-Fi neighborhood aware network
[366.26] Stephen: or NAN.
[368.26] Frank: Yeah, I mean, it's a sort of Wi-Fi broadcast type thing where you might use for beacons
[377.5] Stephen: when you're walking around a shopping mall.
[379.46] Stephen: Yes.
[380.46] Stephen: If you're in some kind of an obsessive shopper, you can be spammed with deals from your favorite
[385.54] Stephen: stores as you walk past them and the thing about that is the thing is designed to achieve
[392.3] Stephen: is to give you connection when you are in very close proximity like when you are walking
[397.58] Stephen: within say five or six meters and it's designed that if there's a lot of people in a very
[402.18] Stephen: dense area, devices instead of talking to an access point, which might be up the ceiling
[407.74] Stephen: it may be quite a long way away, instead of everyone trying to talk to the access point,
[412.1] Stephen: they kind of beacon to each other and the messages can be spread from node to node in
[415.98] Stephen: a mesh if they need to be.
[420.14] Stephen: What it is not specifically what it is not is a means of detecting anything from any
[425.5] Stephen: marked distance like this is less effective than using a Wi-Fi access point, it's a lower
[431.9] Stephen: range than a Wi-Fi access point.
[435.54] Stephen: If we're flying a quad, say in a Bando and we're struggling to get video reception,
[442.58] Stephen: I'm struggling to keep control link with massive antennas, purpose-designed, optimized with
[449.3] Stephen: one watt output power and our remote ID is using an ESP chip antenna with a little tiny
[457.54] Stephen: zigzag on the PCB and 10 milliwatts of output power, there's no way in hell that anyone
[464.54] Stephen: is going to be able to read this, so beyond writing reams of legalese and making everyone
[470.42] Stephen: jump through a load of BS hoops to use what, to be perfectly honest, is probably going
[476.34] Stephen: to be a built-in function in the chips that are in Express LRS receivers by the time this
[481.02] Stephen: gets to market, just bloody pointless because you're going to have to walk up to the quad,
[487.3] Stephen: have it like within touching distance before you're going to be able to get a read on it,
[492.1] Stephen: so why can't we just use a bloody stiffer, I mean it's totally, you're accidentally
[499.1] Curry: trying to implement logic into this, do you think it would work better if we intend to
[502.94] Curry: wrap them in foil as well?
[504.62] Stephen: Oh yeah, I'm sure once you've put it in the body of the quad with your receivers the safest
[509.18] Stephen: as opposed to out the R sticking out in the air where you put your other antennas, it's
[512.86] Stephen: going to be doing great, I'd recommend you put it, put all your receivers between the
[516.86] Stephen: frame and the biggest, thickest heatsick mounted VTX you can find.
[522.9] Stephen: Why aren't Peter Crownes tracked?
[525.5] Stephen: Why are we tracked?
[528.7] Stephen: I think the newspapers just find us easy pickings, I guess.
[533.38] Frank: But the thing is, no one outside of the drone world is going to know about any of this,
[539.54] Frank: no one's going to care.
[540.54] Frank: No one gives a pay.
[542.54] Frank: I mean, ultimately, none of this matters, there's bigger problems in the world.
[546.98] Stephen: Yeah, we're all going to end up with a new model of receiver, whether it's your crossfire
[552.46] Stephen: or Express LRS, and it's just going to use the new expressive chip, and these functions
[558.9] Stephen: are all built in on the latest generations of ESP chips, so you've got your extra little
[564.18] Stephen: Wi-Fi, your extra little Bluetooth, and it's just going to give you a couple of dB of signal
[570.46] Stephen: loss while it blasts out this stupid little five or 10 milliwatt signal that no one's
[575.14] Stephen: going to be able to bloody read because it's going to be weak in the new telemetry link,
[578.86] Stephen: and we'll all just move on, I hope.
[583.3] Curry: Perhaps what we should do is just ignore it, because so far my number of runnings with people
[588.86] Curry: being aggravated or the police are zero in about 14 years, so I might just get a little
[596.22] Curry: box and write on it remote ID, and then have some wires coming out of it and push that
[602.02] Curry: in.
[603.02] Curry: In case anyone wants to inspect it, it's a bit like the box of the internet with the
[608.62] Curry: flashing red light.
[610.1] Jack: Yeah.
[611.1] Jack: For anyone not from the UK, that was an IT crowd reference.
[617.02] Curry: I like to think that people in the US have watched the UK series of it, and not the terrible
[621.46] Curry: attempt at a remake in the US they did.
[623.86] Stephen: They only did the pilot, didn't they?
[625.38] Curry: And then they had to just can it.
[630.1] Curry: Again, the whole argument comes back to, okay, how's this going to help remove bad actors
[639.26] Curry: as they call them?
[640.26] Curry: And it's the same thing as when they said we need registration.
[643.7] Curry: It's like the baddies aren't going to do it, so you're not going to be able to track them.
[649.26] Curry: You also see no one robs a bank using their own car, just in case someone sees a registration
[654.18] Curry: number and could track them that way.
[655.94] Frank: Yeah.
[656.94] Frank: I mean, it does mean a bit like a license plate.
[660.1] Frank: If you see a car without a license plate, you're fairly confident it's probably either
[664.9] Frank: up to no good or they've smashed into something.
[668.46] Jack: Yeah, but you just steal someone else's number plate.
[672.38] Jack: Does anyone here know of anyone who's had that happen to them?
[676.7] Frank: Yeah, of course.
[677.7] Jack: Do you know how difficult and bullsh** it is?
[681.46] Curry: Well, it's very trivial to take a number plate off, isn't it?
[683.9] Curry: It's like two screws.
[684.9] Frank: Yeah.
[685.9] Frank: Or double-sided tape, yeah.
[687.9] Frank: Yeah, it doesn't matter.
[690.06] Frank: The point, you know, they clearly don't care.
[693.5] Frank: They've got the numbers saying the people who actually no one care about this have said
[698.42] Frank: we shouldn't do this, but we're doing it anyway.
[700.34] Frank: So it's going to happen like, I mean, all the Facebook groups suggest everyone's going
[706.9] Frank: to ignore it anyway.
[708.3] Frank: Yeah.
[709.3] Stephen: I mean, it's just a bit sad that, you know, we have to jump through all these hoops.
[714.54] Stephen: And it's sad that so much of what the society relies on, like security theater, like do
[720.06] Stephen: this big clover of standing around and shining lights into corners and not really doing anything
[725.34] Stephen: instead of actually spending money on something more useful.
[728.58] Stephen: Yeah.
[729.58] Frank: Yeah.
[730.58] Frank: I agree with Carol and Tyler saying you have had your 10 minutes, Google.
[736.1] Curry: Sorry.
[737.1] Curry: Crowds become rowdy.
[739.62] Frank: So who's flown this past week?
[743.66] Frank: I've done some flying.
[746.66] Frank: Yep.
[747.66] Frank: Yep.
[748.66] Frank: We went to Hidden Valley.
[749.94] Frank: It was lovely.
[751.74] Frank: It was sunny.
[753.44] Frank: It was not too hot.
[755.22] Frank: It was brilliant flying weather.
[759.86] Frank: We brought more projects to the fields than we had people, and some of them even worked.
[767.78] Frank: It was great.
[771.58] Frank: The magic smoke stayed in the side of the things.
[775.34] Frank: The sea mists stayed clear of our flying area.
[781.62] Frank: The smoke we intended to release didn't come out, but we're working on that.
[785.98] Frank: That'll come later.
[786.98] Stephen: Is it still inside Jack?
[791.82] Frank: That's why he's looking a bit under went out.
[795.82] Stephen: He might just press a button and his head kind of folds back and this giant jet of smoke
[803.82] Stephen: erupts.
[804.82] Stephen: Yeah.
[805.82] Jack: I'm struggling.
[806.82] Jack: I'm not going to lie.
[811.62] Frank: I got to see inside the down lab, which is a fascinating thing to see in the middle of
[819.1] Frank: nowhere.
[822.26] Frank: It is very industrial, very medical, very clinical.
[826.58] Frank: Still can't figure out how to charge this sodden thing.
[832.54] Frank: I look forward to seeing it at many, many flying locations.
[839.18] Curry: Is there any exciting footage you can share?
[842.9] Frank: Is there any exciting footage I can share?
[845.22] Frank: I might be able to.
[847.22] Frank: Let me give it a go.
[850.46] Jack: I didn't use a GoPro on any of my stuff.
[853.86] Jack: I didn't even use my GPS card because I spend longer waiting for the GPS fixed than flying
[861.86] Jack: it.
[862.86] Curry: So, I'll pass me just a couple.
[870.38] Curry: You're a handy runway there.
[872.38] Curry: That's good, isn't it?
[875.46] Curry: Did you bring a lawnmower with you?
[877.62] Curry: No.
[878.62] Frank: We just brought some clothes and blew them totally.
[881.82] Curry: On the grass.
[883.82] Curry: Yeah.
[884.82] UNKNOWN: Yeah.
[885.82] Frank: Now, as you can see, lovely day.
[889.9] Frank: See if you can see that cloud in the sky.
[891.86] Frank: Oh, cloud.
[892.86] Stephen: Great.
[894.86] Stephen: Is this you, friend?
[895.86] Stephen: You've been multiplying more stuff for DJI, I see.
[898.86] Frank: Yes.
[899.86] Frank: So, this is an OGA unit on a motion sick badass gimbal, although it's not actually used at
[912.06] Frank: this point.
[913.06] Frank: It's just pointing straight ahead, but the point is it didn't go mental, so that's good.
[921.62] Frank: It's on an FMS Cub, which is too big to bring in here, but yeah, it's good fun.
[931.22] Frank: I've been flying the Cub line of sight for ages and then prompted by Andy RC telling
[938.14] Frank: me I should stick a gimbal and head tracking on it.
[941.86] Frank: I have done that.
[943.54] Frank: I didn't get head tracking working for when we weren't flying, but so I was just getting
[949.98] Frank: the FPV going, making sure that was all happy.
[953.82] Frank: This first flight, I think, is just where I was flying line of sight and Jack was in
[961.54] Frank: the goggles making sure I hadn't messed something up or the antennas were broken or something
[967.18] Frank: awful like that, making sure everything was happy.
[971.14] Frank: Looks pretty.
[972.14] Frank: Yeah.
[973.82] Frank: Yeah, it was good fun.
[976.66] Frank: And then I did some flying FPV, but without the pantel or head tracking doing anything
[982.7] Frank: useful.
[983.7] Frank: Yeah, it's I very much enjoyed it.
[989.5] Frank: And the Cubs got these big bush wheels so I could actually land on the grass and like
[994.42] Frank: taxi around and take off again.
[996.02] Frank: It was great fun.
[998.02] Frank: Very much enjoyed it.
[999.26] Curry: It's a dream of mine to land a plane with wheels and not have it fall over on its nose.
[1003.3] Curry: I've never accomplished this yet.
[1004.82] Curry: I've never taken off anywhere that wasn't knee deep in grass, so it's a bit tricksy.
[1010.86] Frank: Yeah, I mean, I did keep to the shorter bits of grass where all the vehicles go back and
[1016.22] Frank: forth and all the quad bikes and stuff that the farmers use.
[1022.26] Frank: But yeah, I could take off and land.
[1025.9] Frank: Very exciting.
[1027.18] Stephen: So next step, you're going to start moving your head around.
[1029.82] Stephen: Is that on the cards?
[1031.62] Frank: Yeah, exactly.
[1032.62] Frank: So I after speaking with John Lancaster, I bought the motion sick head tracker, which
[1041.7] Frank: is called something like the tally ho head tracker.
[1047.26] Frank: And I have been fighting that to get that working.
[1050.98] Frank: So the easiest way to do it, the most reliable way to do it is with a cable between a trainer
[1060.22] Frank: cable, a TRS, or is it just a tip sleeve cable, three and a half mil cable anyway, between
[1068.62] Frank: the head tracker and the DSC port, the trainer port.
[1072.58] Frank: So I've got the RadioMaster TX16S and I couldn't get it to work because this thing's broken,
[1080.54] Frank: it's awful.
[1081.54] Frank: And then I was looking around and painless has put out a video about the TX16S trainer
[1088.46] Frank: port.
[1089.46] Frank: In the Mark 1 TX16S, the trainer port is this very weird socket where the contacts aren't
[1098.3] Frank: in the right place unless you use a very, very specific cable.
[1102.82] Frank: So the solution is to open it up and bend the contacts back so that it actually makes
[1109.22] Frank: contact.
[1110.22] Stephen: You don't need to get a completely new socket, I suppose.
[1113.5] Frank: Exactly, exactly.
[1114.5] Frank: They do sell the replacement of the Mark 2 one, which has a normal socket, so you could
[1120.66] Frank: do that way if you really wanted to, but for five minutes, opening it up, bending a contact
[1126.46] Frank: and it all working.
[1127.78] Frank: I was happy with that.
[1129.94] Frank: And then the other challenge is that the, I mean, I haven't entirely solved this yet.
[1136.58] Frank: It seems like I've found an answer, but it sort of gets curious about something in a
[1145.26] Frank: different direction occasionally when I was testing it, yeah, when I finally got it working.
[1152.02] Frank: So it works and responds normally and then just 30 seconds later, for no apparent reason,
[1161.98] Frank: it just drifts off about 45 degrees, fits there for a little bit, and then slowly wanders
[1168.26] Curry: back.
[1169.26] Curry: Is there a reset button on it?
[1170.54] Curry: Because that's what I noticed that I tried head tracking on my HD zero goggles and it's
[1175.26] Curry: like, this is working, this is working, then suddenly it'd go off and I have to look like
[1178.82] Curry: that to be straight.
[1179.82] Curry: And I was like, oh, there's no reset.
[1181.14] Curry: Like on the old head trackers that went in the fat sharks, I think you had like a recenter
[1185.26] Curry: button or something where it'd just go to the middle one.
[1188.3] Curry: That seems to be missing from other ones.
[1190.94] Frank: This one does have a reset button, which also acts as an enable, disable button, which
[1196.58] Frank: I didn't realize to begin with.
[1198.18] Frank: So I was like, oh, it's still not outputting anything.
[1200.62] Frank: Why is it not outputting anything?
[1203.9] Frank: It's a long hold and release to enable it.
[1208.38] Frank: So that's good to know.
[1211.02] Frank: But yeah, it had this weird drifty thing.
[1214.78] Frank: I couldn't understand what was going on.
[1218.5] Frank: Andy RC had ideas.
[1221.34] Frank: John had ideas.
[1222.34] Frank: Those people have loads of ideas.
[1224.34] Frank: It seems like the most likely thing is just that it has some kind of like the gyro in
[1233.46] Frank: it like needs to warm up.
[1236.18] Frank: That seems to be the thing.
[1238.26] Frank: So you just turn it on and leave it for a bit and let it go.
[1243.3] Stephen: Not calibrate, but not immediately after a period of 20 minutes stretching out in the
[1248.18] Stephen: sun.
[1249.18] UNKNOWN: It'll calibrate.
[1250.18] Frank: Yeah.
[1251.18] Frank: Exactly.
[1252.18] Frank: It seems a bit, which makes me a little uncomfortable with it.
[1257.94] Frank: But the fact that it does have the disable thing does at least give a sort of a fallback.
[1264.06] Frank: But yeah, I will be testing this out more thoroughly next week.
[1268.34] Frank: That is the long term thing.
[1272.78] Frank: SPV in the chat says, later versions of the code is bugs and compass drifts.
[1279.98] Frank: Best fix is to disable compass.
[1281.34] Frank: Well, I've got the version of the code that starts off with the meg disabled to begin
[1287.46] Frank: with.
[1288.46] Frank: So that is definitely not the problem.
[1290.34] Frank: But we'll use a compass for anyway, again, I kind of like point north all the time.
[1298.9] Stephen: Right.
[1301.89] Stephen: Are you a sundial or an aircraft?
[1304.09] Stephen: What's going on?
[1305.09] Curry: If I was having a problem with an accelerometer when it got hot on a little woop where if
[1315.77] Curry: I crashed it or the board got hot, then the accelerometer would stop working completely.
[1321.69] Curry: And this is I'm in angle mode flying a woop in my house.
[1324.77] Curry: I arm it and I go to go up and it just flips over on the floor, which is kind of the opposite
[1331.25] Curry: of what should be happening, which was which was diagnosed to be, we think your chip's
[1335.89] Curry: faulty or as a dodgy solar connection because it shouldn't work like that.
[1340.09] Curry: But that's that's kind of like some some old stuff got a bit different when it warmed up,
[1345.05] Curry: didn't it?
[1346.05] Curry: The Jara's works.
[1347.05] Frank: Yeah, that's that's what slightly leaves me a bit unsatisfied about this explanation
[1354.61] Frank: is that this sounds like a thing that used to happen 10 years ago and isn't a thing I'm
[1360.49] Frank: aware of happening more recently.
[1362.17] Frank: And this is a fairly new board like it's using the Arduino Nano 33 or something.
[1368.81] Frank: It's like it's a fairly recent board.
[1370.81] Frank: I feel like it shouldn't have an old problem.
[1373.45] Frank: And I feel like it would be a problem with the Arduino board, not with this particular
[1379.53] Frank: product made with the Arduino board.
[1381.41] Frank: So I'm slightly sensing bullshit, but we'll, we'll find out.
[1388.13] Frank: I'll continue investigating, try and pin down, but I haven't been able to reliably replicate
[1394.41] Frank: it, which is, you know, the most important thing we're trying to diagnose a problem,
[1398.81] Stephen: right?
[1399.81] Stephen: The tracker board's a swap of the board, so you could always find a different solution
[1403.29] Stephen: and as long as you've got a nice gimbal, just find something else.
[1406.01] Stephen: Very true.
[1407.01] Stephen: Yeah.
[1409.29] Frank: Easily make, make one or make the other.
[1413.85] Stephen: Well, now you've got those DJI goggles, you could consider what NDRC was doing.
[1418.77] Stephen: He had one solution where he mounted kind of inside the goggles where they used to,
[1425.17] Stephen: used to have a screw on antennas that would go on the front of those goggles.
[1429.61] Stephen: And I think there's a head track, a 3D print mount that clamps on there as well.
[1434.01] Frank: The sort of where the digidaptor type stuff goes.
[1437.45] Stephen: Yeah.
[1438.45] Stephen: Yeah.
[1439.45] Stephen: And then you do a power splutter into it.
[1442.81] Frank: Well, this, this one's like bolts into where the head strap goes onto the, onto the two
[1450.37] Frank: goggles.
[1451.37] Frank: It's, it's very attached to just, it has some characteristics I'm not familiar with.
[1459.85] Stephen: With Arduino projects that kind of get abandoned or see they'll fork to, you know, quite sure.
[1465.33] Frank: Well, that's the thing is it's a very live project.
[1468.29] Frank: Like it's, there's lots of people working on it right now.
[1470.89] Frank: It's not, it's not an old head tracker thing that's just been around for ages.
[1474.89] Frank: This is new thing.
[1475.89] Frank: So this is, it is literally just called head tracker and the, the, the product is the motion
[1484.13] Frank: sick pallyhope, but it's based on the Arduino thing.
[1489.85] Frank: Yeah.
[1490.85] Frank: Yeah.
[1491.85] Stephen: Yeah.
[1492.85] Stephen: The Arduino, the Arduino project is called the motion sick.
[1495.85] Frank: No.
[1496.85] Frank: So the, the, the, the projects using either ESP32s or nano 33s or whatever else, whatever
[1504.65] Frank: board it is, you know, whatever board you like basically is just called head tracker.
[1510.53] Frank: Not head tracker RX.
[1511.85] Frank: Don't think so.
[1513.85] Frank: I think it's just called head tracker.
[1515.69] Frank: That's definitely what the, the discord is called anyway.
[1520.05] Stephen: There's a whole bunch of different head tracker projects that are all forks of different
[1523.45] Stephen: things.
[1524.45] Stephen: So yeah, I'm not sure when you're looking at that.
[1528.97] Stephen: And there are a lot of them are forked from things that are forked from some guy who was
[1532.97] Stephen: trying to do a general purpose, like Bluetooth adapter board.
[1536.69] Frank: Yeah.
[1537.69] Frank: There's definitely a lot of mention of Bluetooth everywhere, but I do not need Bluetooth.
[1545.05] UNKNOWN: Cool.
[1546.05] Frank: Like a nice day.
[1548.05] Frank: Yeah.
[1549.05] Frank: It was a lovely day and yeah, it was fun flying.
[1555.25] Frank: This episode was recorded in front of a live online audience, downloaded and edited to
[1559.37] Frank: make sense when it played audio only sensors to please the iTunes people hosted on the
[1564.21] Frank: internet, forwarded through to your podcast provider, downloaded playing on your device
[1568.43] Frank: and is now playing in your ears.
[1570.33] Frank: All thanks to our Patreons consider joining them and you'll also get other online benefits.
[1576.01] Frank: Find out more at patreon.com forward slash let's drone out.
[1580.73] Curry: I did just remember that I did actually fly something while we were out staying somewhere
[1586.47] Curry: at devil's punch bowl, but it was just one of the DJI camera cords.
[1589.87] Curry: So it doesn't really count as it's like it's going away from us over the trees.
[1595.33] Curry: Here's what's over the top of the lip at the end.
[1598.05] Curry: It was quite dark.
[1599.05] Jack: Have you not had any new stuff to review yet?
[1603.13] Jack: How are you getting on with the new goggles?
[1605.05] Curry: Well, I've only got one quad that uses them.
[1607.77] Curry: I keep like dropping hints to various companies like, Hey, you know, you wanted me to test
[1613.73] Curry: something two years ago using DJI goggles.
[1616.21] Curry: I have some help.
[1618.41] Curry: Can I have it?
[1619.41] Curry: No.
[1620.41] Curry: Stop making all that stuff.
[1622.81] Curry: Yeah.
[1623.81] Curry: We've given up.
[1624.81] Curry: Who?
[1625.81] Curry: Yeah.
[1626.97] Curry: I've been finishing, finishing off some, some edits for some tech stuff this week.
[1635.64] Curry: And I got a new tiny helicopter that was, I talked about it so long ago, I had to go
[1641.88] Curry: through my emails to find out who it was from.
[1644.64] Curry: I think I found that, but yeah, it's not terribly exciting.
[1648.92] Curry: And I've just rebuilt my wing again after smashing into that post two times.
[1654.52] Curry: And I'm like, I shan't give up.
[1656.92] Curry: I will launch it into the air or I will set a fire to it.
[1660.2] Curry: One of the two.
[1661.2] Stephen: It's got to that point, isn't it?
[1664.2] Curry: Yes.
[1665.2] Curry: It doesn't need to be either, or you'll die.
[1668.52] Curry: It's a threat.
[1669.52] Curry: So now he's like, he's scared, a scared wing is one that flies.
[1674.2] Curry: That's my feeling.
[1675.2] Curry: Yeah.
[1676.2] Curry: I, I've, I realize I haven't done any fixed wing flying for a while.
[1679.0] Curry: So next time I go to the field, I want to make sure I take more than one wing because
[1683.24] Curry: then if I smash that into the ground, I'll have a different one to fly.
[1687.32] Curry: That'd be more fun.
[1688.32] Frank: Yeah.
[1689.32] Frank: Uh, as a note, so numbskull in the chat has reminded me, Popem is this weekend, the Popem
[1696.96] Frank: model air show this weekend.
[1700.4] Frank: On Monday this week, I was helping, uh, start to set up the tent for some tiny wing flying
[1708.24] Frank: in the big top that they have, uh, at Popem for their summer events.
[1714.4] Frank: So there's a big old track.
[1716.4] Frank: I also left them with some trophies.
[1718.56] Frank: So there's some trophies for the tiny wing flying.
[1721.52] Frank: So if you're interested in some tiny whoop racing, then that is going to be there this
[1726.32] Frank: weekend, uh, along with all sorts of water flying.
[1730.52] Frank: Uh, I think I've seen some people who may be in the chat say that they were going to
[1735.76] Frank: bring along some stuff to sell, but I don't think there's any official FPV, um, shops
[1744.0] Frank: going, but it'll all be out of the back of a, uh, out the back of a car or possibly in
[1750.96] Frank: like some long coat and people will be sort of bringing a load of like props and motors
[1756.64] Frank: and batteries and things.
[1758.52] Frank: But there'll be loads of like, uh, the sort of module stores going, just maybe not so
[1763.92] Frank: much, uh, tiny whoop or general FPV stuff.
[1768.64] Frank: Yes, he is in the chat.
[1769.96] Frank: Marshall McFly has a load of stuff to buy.
[1774.96] Frank: So if you are going to, uh, pop them this weekend and want some FPV stuff, maybe go
[1781.52] Frank: speak to him.
[1783.6] Jack: Any old iron, any old iron?
[1788.52] Jack: How I imagine it to be.
[1791.12] Stephen: I'm kind of enthused about building tiny quads again.
[1794.68] Stephen: So one upshot of this recent annoying news is that I think it's, it's great to build tiny
[1802.36] Stephen: little two, two and a half inch park flyers.
[1805.28] Stephen: So I'm probably going to try a few more of those.
[1807.68] Stephen: I've got parts on the bench, so it's going to be a summer project.
[1812.0] Curry: Is it under a hundred grams?
[1814.08] Stephen: I think you can do it.
[1815.04] Stephen: Yeah.
[1815.52] Stephen: I mean, a lot of them ended up being about 120, but I fly them with like 450 mar3s.
[1821.48] Stephen: And if you go down to like 300 3s, that's probably going to be under a hundred.
[1826.6] Stephen: Yeah.
[1828.36] Stephen: You just got to get that walk snail in there and, um, yeah, try and make it so it
[1832.96] Stephen: doesn't fall apart too easily.
[1834.28] Jack: It's such a shit fest, isn't there?
[1838.16] Stephen: It's not great, but I mean, I did enjoy flying that type of quite an awful lot to
[1842.28] Stephen: start with.
[1842.8] Stephen: So I think there's going to be a fun thing to fly at least.
[1846.88] Curry: I think, um, it just depends the sort of places you've got.
[1851.68] Curry: Like I love taking a whoop just in the quite dense woods and just flying it
[1856.0] Curry: around the trees there, which you definitely can do on a five inch or you
[1860.0] Curry: could do, but it would be quite short lived and involve a large noise standing
[1863.84] Curry: like a saw hitting some wood.
[1865.32] Stephen: It involves praising quads out of quite close contact with the trees
[1870.48] Stephen: using bits of other tree.
[1872.6] Stephen: The good thing about small quads like that in forest is that they never
[1876.24] Stephen: go fast enough to get like truly stuck into something.
[1880.84] Stephen: Like at most it, you're just going to be able to talk to a waggle a branch
[1884.64] Stephen: and it comes down.
[1886.6] Jack: I'm sure I could find a way of totally screwing it up.
[1891.52] Stephen: Obviously like a professional such as yourself, Jack would be able to find
[1895.8] Stephen: a way of getting it right up.
[1897.6] Jack: I mean, I, I once got a chair stuck in a tree.
[1902.0] Stephen: I mean, I think finding quads when they're small in the woods is the more
[1912.92] Curry: difficult thing, especially if there's leaves on the floor and your quads is
[1916.84] Stephen: this big beepers don't really work through like leaf mulch, not when it's
[1924.32] Curry: those tiny little motors, you're like, it beats.
[1928.32] Stephen: It's definitely around here somewhere, but is it actually in this direction?
[1933.72] Frank: I've never had much luck with the whoops.
[1936.88] Frank: I feel like they're slightly more delicate on the electronic side than
[1941.64] Frank: I ever expect them to be.
[1943.8] Frank: And it always seems like I like slightly push a battery a little bit too
[1948.36] Frank: far and something browns out and then something dies and it's like loses all
[1954.96] Frank: its settings and they have to like go back to flashing it like with a boot
[1958.52] Frank: loader or something.
[1959.24] Frank: Cause I've managed to wipe something very important or like the, the, the
[1964.92] Frank: motors just burn out or just, I feel like they're not quite as resilient.
[1968.96] Frank: I don't get as many packs through them per taking apart and putting them back
[1974.2] Frank: together again.
[1975.0] Curry: They definitely are like, this is the air 65.
[1977.28] Curry: I was flying this about a week ago and the video system out tomorrow and
[1981.64] Curry: it's squishy, it flexes, but you can't get enough like kinetic energy to
[1988.6] Curry: actually bash it on something.
[1989.72] Curry: But this is, this is a problem.
[1991.08] Curry: I was like, I was flying this out and I was like, Oh, I wonder if I can reach
[1994.08] Curry: the blue bells over there.
[1995.04] Curry: So you start going through some trees and like hit a piece of scraggle and then
[1998.28] Curry: you fall down upside down and then leaves and you like, Oh dear, because I'm not
[2002.36] Curry: sure where that is and it's quite far away.
[2004.4] Curry: And so on this one, it's somehow I managed to flip it over and get back.
[2011.08] Curry: And then I had this massive leaf and like green moths all over it, but it's
[2015.92] Curry: like, I, I have to play like get, get my telemetry radio and look at the DB for
[2021.72] Curry: the RSSI and you start going about trying to, it's like, the only, the only way I
[2028.4] Curry: can make it, make a noise is to arm it.
[2030.56] Curry: And I can hear the motors like whizz up somewhere.
[2032.76] Curry: It's like, where is that must find it.
[2035.48] Curry: I got there the other day.
[2036.36] Curry: There was this big Hawk sat on a branch looking at it.
[2038.64] Curry: I think he was just about to take it to his chicks, but we got it back.
[2044.04] Curry: I do like quads that are small, light enough to feel like it's a tiny five
[2051.0] Curry: inch that you can fly around.
[2052.64] Curry: I've had so many whoops.
[2054.6] Curry: They're a bit heavy and like whenever you like spin or something, you got like
[2059.08] Curry: full power just to get it back.
[2060.84] Curry: You can't do a flip unless you're like five meters up.
[2063.44] Curry: Yeah.
[2063.64] Curry: Yeah.
[2064.24] Curry: This little air series, they're only like five grams lighter than
[2068.52] Curry: the regular one, but five grams is about like over a quarter of its weight.
[2072.48] Curry: So they're really fun.
[2074.72] Curry: I like those.
[2077.0] Stephen: Yeah.
[2077.28] Stephen: I definitely felt that the 65 mil was a challenging build.
[2081.08] Stephen: Like you need to get a really perfect list of parts or go to a vendor that has
[2087.0] Stephen: it down like beta FPV or probably the Mobula series.
[2091.68] Curry: Yeah.
[2092.48] Curry: There's like a single board in that one.
[2094.56] Stephen: Yeah.
[2095.0] Curry: And the camera, which is pretty easy as now.
[2097.76] Stephen: You don't really want a separate VTX at all.
[2100.64] Stephen: If you can on a 65 mil, I think when you get to 85 mil, like you can do a lot at
[2105.72] Stephen: that point, but you're not going to be under a hundred grams.
[2108.64] Stephen: I guess an 85 mil would buy you.
[2110.44] Stephen: It's just not going to happen because all that plastic.
[2113.2] Curry: No.
[2113.48] Curry: And I suppose as you get a bit bigger, you probably want to up the power as well,
[2117.24] Curry: which means heavier parts, which sort of destroys the under a hundred, but screw
[2122.92] Stephen: that we're all going to learn how to, the trouble is then in just three years
[2126.92] Stephen: time, they'll be like, oh, 50 grams, you know?
[2130.24] Curry: Yeah.
[2131.4] Curry: Not going back to it, but I'm guessing there wasn't any actual reasoning to say
[2135.48] Curry: two 50 grams is bad.
[2137.0] Curry: Let's go back to a hundred because surely they would have measured like how fast
[2142.52] Curry: can the two 50 gram go?
[2143.64] Curry: What sort of damage can it do?
[2145.04] Stephen: No, I don't think they did actually.
[2146.8] Curry: It can copy.
[2147.76] Curry: I've got to do it to a hundred.
[2148.84] Stephen: You're assuming like a lot of work on the other side of the equation.
[2152.2] Stephen: I really don't think, I think they just want to systematically ban people from
[2156.04] Stephen: flying and they're going to make it harder and harder for a number of years to
[2159.52] Stephen: progressively strict a law enforcement and we can try and rationalize it all we
[2163.52] Stephen: want, but that's their agenda.
[2165.08] Curry: So that's where we are.
[2167.32] Curry: The only work they did was to cunningly ignore every comment that everybody
[2172.12] Curry: knows.
[2173.04] Stephen: Let's pick what 85% of people say we shouldn't do and do that.
[2176.84] Stephen: Yeah, because we've got the mandate from 14% of people that either didn't care or
[2182.48] Stephen: grudgingly admitted it.
[2184.76] Frank: Yeah, the, the, the one I particularly didn't have much success with was the
[2192.28] Frank: Mobula six.
[2193.6] Frank: That was the one that I've managed to, every time I fly it, I managed to, it
[2199.8] Frank: starts becoming a thought.
[2201.52] Frank: Yeah.
[2203.28] Frank: It just decides I don't like being on quite anymore.
[2206.76] Frank: Flash me with something else.
[2207.96] Frank: I want to, I want to be some other, some other device.
[2212.24] Stephen: I was definitely on the cheap end of the scale.
[2215.36] Stephen: I remember that.
[2218.28] Curry: So it's like,
[2219.44] Jack: what happened with that?
[2220.64] Jack: Is it, you run the battery down really low and then it, it wipes its own memory.
[2227.52] Frank: Yeah, it loses the, some, some EEPROM or something.
[2232.4] Frank: And then it's just, it ends up like wiping whatever firmware is on it.
[2238.28] Frank: It just, it doesn't have the firmware anymore.
[2240.8] Frank: So the, the, the, the VTX works, but the flight controller is no longer a flight
[2244.96] Frank: control.
[2245.56] Curry: What you've got there is a Gen Z quad.
[2248.2] Curry: It wants to identify as a tricopter or something.
[2250.84] Stephen: So I recently heard about this with SSDs because people were, were starting to
[2256.36] Stephen: raise sort of specters of concern that when we had, uh, HDDs, you know, spinning
[2265.08] Stephen: disks, that they're storing magnetic data, right?
[2268.32] Stephen: So there's literally a magnetic field that's being flipped and it's, it's
[2271.84] Stephen: fairly permanent, but some people recently with SSDs have been saying, well,
[2276.48] Stephen: if you store them for a couple of years, you do get a bunch of file system errors.
[2280.16] Stephen: And the more, where there is before you start storing it, the worse those errors
[2285.04] Stephen: are, and because the way you're storing data on an SSD is you're pushing all
[2289.6] Stephen: these electrons, charged particles into through an insulator and just hoping
[2295.52] Stephen: that they stay there and that they don't break through the insulator.
[2299.6] Stephen: So you put a large voltage, which is like electric pressure and you push the
[2303.88] Stephen: electrons through an insulator and you leave them on this charge little spot
[2310.44] Stephen: that effectively records a bit of data.
[2313.16] Stephen: And they can't then get back through the insulator cause they lack the voltage,
[2317.28] Stephen: the electric energy to push back through the insulator.
[2319.72] Stephen: So they should stay there.
[2321.0] Stephen: But, but what happens is that that operation by, by pushing things through
[2324.8] Stephen: the insulator repeatedly, you do weaken it and it's not perfect to start with.
[2328.68] Stephen: So, so they're more inclined to, to forget their state at the time, which
[2333.56] Stephen: means that flash memory does have this tendency to just get a little bit senile.
[2341.0] Stephen: Um, it's not great.
[2342.24] Stephen: And I think this is what we see with a lot of our quads that if the flash
[2346.32] Stephen: isn't amazing quality to start with, and they're probably not price we're paying
[2349.88] Stephen: for them, then, um, if you leave them stored without power attached for a long
[2355.36] Stephen: time, this will tend to not get rewritten and will tend to kind of leak to the
[2362.92] Stephen: point where there's some obviously bad bits that can't be corrected by whatever
[2367.56] Stephen: error corrections in there, and then you plug it in and it's just like, yeah,
[2370.52] Stephen: I don't have the config.
[2371.48] Stephen: Sorry.
[2371.84] Stephen: Bye.
[2373.68] Stephen: Well, it could become self-aware, but the program degradating all of
[2379.32] Stephen: petunias or something, you never know.
[2383.2] Stephen: Back up your files offsite, everybody.
[2386.44] Stephen: Yeah.
[2387.12] Stephen: Just, um, back up.
[2388.2] Stephen: So when you, when you get your quad and you think it's fantastic and you
[2391.56] Stephen: love the way it flies, I'll get into the configuration and just do a backup.
[2395.48] Stephen: Put that somewhere, put that where your family photos or wherever you keep things
[2399.16] Stephen: and just keep that with the name of the quad on it and you'll be able to find it.
[2402.72] Stephen: And if this does happen, what you've got to do is get that backup, push it back
[2405.56] Stephen: onto the quad in your own business.
[2407.44] Frank: Well, I've, I've never got the, the WOOP into a state that I like it.
[2411.24] Frank: So I won't be doing that.
[2413.96] Stephen: It was, it was a, it was great value at the time.
[2415.92] Stephen: I remember that, Frank, that was a very good, very.
[2419.48] Frank: Well, it wasn't even that.
[2420.68] Frank: I just asked all the WOOP people, what should I buy as a WOOP?
[2424.76] Frank: And everyone said buy the, the, the Mobula six.
[2428.4] Frank: Uh, and so I did.
[2429.84] Frank: And I think they lied.
[2432.48] Frank: It's probably good.
[2432.96] Curry: I had a Mobula seven.
[2434.68] Curry: I don't think I ever had a six.
[2437.56] Stephen: Uh, I had a, I think I had an eight.
[2442.48] Stephen: Or was that the one before the Mobula series?
[2444.28] Stephen: I have like the one with the metal hoops instead of plastic, like an alloy hoops.
[2454.71] Stephen: Yeah, they're very delicate because you've got everything on the one board,
[2458.11] Stephen: the VTX, the receiver, ESCs, flight control, everything's just crammed into that.
[2463.07] Stephen: So that there's, there's a lot can go wrong.
[2465.99] Stephen: I've screwed up a couple of beta FPV ones, just trying to change that the power plug.
[2470.31] Stephen: Cause I wanted to get a PH two.
[2471.83] Stephen: Cause on my batteries, a PH two, I was like, Oh, I'll just
[2474.51] Stephen: unsold the battery lead and put another one on.
[2476.91] Stephen: And there were a couple of passives like right next to the battery lead.
[2479.71] Stephen: I just knocked one of them off, screwed the whole board.
[2482.99] Stephen: It's not fair.
[2484.15] Curry: Yeah.
[2484.47] Curry: I, I hate being on those tiny boards.
[2487.79] Curry: I can't remember what it was.
[2488.95] Curry: It was not particularly up to date one, but there's, there's one where there's
[2493.79] Curry: like a few contacts around the sides.
[2495.91] Curry: And then the one I want, there's two tiny ones that are in between these chips
[2499.91] Curry: that are like one mill apart.
[2501.31] Curry: And I had to go down to the tiniest soldering iron just to actually work on
[2505.63] Curry: it and then put the whole lot under a microscope and then try, try it every
[2509.79] Curry: time on like before turning it on.
[2511.79] Curry: And it was just pure luck that it actually worked and they didn't show each other out.
[2515.87] Stephen: I've definitely had some little whoop boards where I've gone.
[2518.95] Stephen: So let's save some weight or solder the motor wires on and the space between
[2523.47] Stephen: the motor wires is just so small that you can't tell if they're making contact
[2528.15] Stephen: or not and you can't, they're all attached to the other end on the motor.
[2532.15] Stephen: So you just, you just got to fire it up and like yank the power.
[2535.15] Stephen: If anything bad happens, it's not good.
[2540.11] Curry: Spicy.
[2541.71] Curry: So aside from Frank and Poppam, is anybody future plans for flying the upcoming week?
[2550.27] Frank: Yes.
[2551.99] Frank: Next week I, with, with my reduced employment, I'm taking the time to
[2558.79] Frank: spend the whole week going scale FPV flying with John Lancaster and his
[2566.31] Frank: squadron crew.
[2567.35] Frank: Oh, nice.
[2567.99] Frank: Exactly.
[2569.87] Frank: Exactly.
[2570.47] Frank: So, uh, hence working on getting the head tracking going, giving the pan tilt going.
[2576.11] Frank: That's why that's, I've had to get that going for next week so that I can
[2579.71] Frank: actually join in this time.
[2583.03] Frank: So that is where I, where are we is going up to Buckminster and
[2587.51] Frank: flying some stuff for them.
[2589.63] Frank: That is my plan for the week.
[2591.39] Frank: Nice.
[2591.91] Frank: That looks solid, man.
[2593.95] Curry: I like it.
[2595.07] Curry: I've got a, I've got a gimbal somebody sent me.
[2597.43] Curry: I'm thinking maybe I should put that on the plane.
[2600.71] Curry: That might be interesting.
[2602.39] Curry: It doesn't really go in a quad.
[2603.27] Curry: So I might as well go on a plane.
[2606.07] Frank: What about you, Jack?
[2607.35] Frank: I don't know.
[2608.03] Frank: I don't know.
[2608.95] Frank: Uh,
[2612.22] Frank: Have you got anything on your bench that you can talk about that isn't
[2616.58] Frank: acetone or isopropyl?
[2622.1] Jack: Ant powder.
[2622.9] Jack: It's delicious, but it gives me headaches.
[2626.42] Stephen: Well, I've got sherbet, so I wouldn't have to resort to the ant powder.
[2629.5] Stephen: But I understand if you want that tingly taste in your app, sherbet,
[2632.66] Stephen: ant powder is the way to go.
[2634.74] Stephen: Makes you know that it's there, doesn't it?
[2636.82] Stephen: Oh yeah.
[2637.22] Stephen: But you've got to get the ant out first.
[2638.74] Stephen: Right.
[2639.1] Jack: I mean, really, before you start complaining about the itching.
[2643.86] Jack: It does feel like an episode of Archer, but it's like, you know, that's how you get.
[2650.62] Stephen: Um, I've been, Jack's been experimenting with web dashboards, haven't you, Jack?
[2657.06] Jack: I've been, I've been struggling with that.
[2658.54] Jack: Thank you.
[2658.98] Jack: Your help is
[2661.86] Jack: we, we were like the space bear, um,
[2669.06] Stephen: and just flapped at the various options available in Grafana until
[2673.26] Stephen: we enabled the correct settings.
[2675.7] Frank: Right.
[2676.18] Frank: Yeah.
[2677.14] Frank: Grafana is fun.
[2679.46] Frank: It's good old puzzle game.
[2680.9] Stephen: Yeah.
[2681.34] Stephen: Yeah.
[2683.1] Stephen: I want this outcome.
[2684.5] Stephen: I can take one of three parts.
[2687.02] Stephen: Which one you do?
[2687.94] Stephen: Will you go for the swinging axes?
[2689.86] Stephen: Will you jump over the alligators or will you walk the endless desert?
[2696.06] Stephen: It seems to be the desert, the endless desert every single time where you're
[2700.14] Stephen: like, someone said I could do this.
[2702.1] Stephen: It's just a series of logical steps from now until the heat death of the universe.
[2707.58] Jack: Yeah.
[2707.9] Jack: And my support net turns around and says, it'll get easier when you have all
[2712.22] Jack: the information there and I'm like, what, we're not recording everything.
[2717.7] Jack: I'm like, what that's, that's like life, isn't it?
[2721.58] Jack: It'll get easier.
[2722.34] Jack: I don't know.
[2722.66] Jack: That's all about.
[2725.5] Frank: Oh dear.
[2726.86] Frank: Has anyone in the chat got any other events coming up?
[2729.98] Frank: Any builds they're excited about?
[2732.1] Frank: Any new releases they've spotted?
[2734.18] Curry: Oh, no, it's Caroline's talking about, uh, for going for a flying break in Wales.
[2739.62] Curry: That sounds fun.
[2742.5] Jack: Careful.
[2743.1] Jack: There's Welsh people there.
[2744.74] Jack: Hey, when are you doing that?
[2747.82] Jack: Be careful.
[2748.94] Jack: I'm going to say that I lived there for many years.
[2752.82] Jack: So it's a, but it was my soul.
[2757.46] Stephen: It's not all just heard.
[2759.82] Stephen: I've heard very positive things about bridge and Jack.
[2761.94] Stephen: They say it's the capital of Wales.
[2764.9] Jack: Oh, it was, it was truly a happy place.
[2769.62] Jack: Um, I do, I do struggle with my demons from that.
[2774.94] Frank: Oh dear.
[2776.9] Jack: We should go for a road trip.
[2778.94] Stephen: Yeah, that's the, uh, the other side.
[2785.1] Stephen: There's plenty of big old valleys and stuff to go flying down.
[2789.94] Curry: Watch out for the fighter jets that occasionally come along at lower
[2794.14] Curry: altitudes that I was flying.
[2795.78] Curry: And I didn't expect a jet to suddenly go, they definitely take the approach.
[2799.94] Stephen: The altitude is measured from the lowest bit that they can find
[2803.22] Stephen: in the surrounding area, not from say directly onto the jet.
[2806.34] Stephen: I think that's the, uh,
[2808.86] Jack: last land to it, major.
[2810.62] Jack: I heard a story once that they crashed a, like Land Rover or Jeep so
[2816.3] Jack: badly into one of their barracks that, um, they couldn't remove it.
[2822.82] Jack: They had to cut the Jeep away from it.
[2828.82] Jack: And parts of it was still, how were you born in Virginia?
[2832.14] Jack: Clive, what the hell?
[2834.7] Jack: I thought you English, you make no sense.
[2836.94] Jack: We're mystery to me.
[2839.42] Jack: Was it a place in England called Bridget and I'm still, there was only one.
[2845.14] Stephen: It says he had to return home to home once for Chinookan's Snowdonia,
[2850.54] Stephen: which sounds like a dish and maybe an elaborate dish involving some
[2855.78] Stephen: sort of spinning pasta topped with a large amount of snowy parmesan.
[2861.58] Stephen: I don't know.
[2863.1] Stephen: I'm going to imagine what Chinookan Snowdonia is like, or, or it's, uh,
[2868.1] Curry: absolutely profane move that we can see Indian Chinook with an arm.
[2873.62] Stephen: Like the Cleveland steamer.
[2875.58] Jack: Oh, careful.
[2877.26] Jack: Currie will name his next car.
[2881.98] Curry: The thing about Chinook's is, is like the most, um, well-recognized helicopter
[2887.66] Curry: noise, it's got that, as one comes along, it's got a whole lot of road to go on, baby.
[2897.42] Stephen: With all this upbeat, tippity toppity, amazing, not dead air at all.
[2904.62] Curry: We've got a lot to talk about this week.
[2907.98] Curry: I'm so tired.
[2911.74] Jack: I'm so sorry about me.
[2913.3] Jack: I, um, like I did say I was dying.
[2916.94] Jack: It's been so bad.
[2918.1] Jack: I'm on my second lot of laundry.
[2919.94] Jack: That's how bad it's been.
[2922.62] Jack: Quite spectacular.
[2923.9] Stephen: It's going to save some time.
[2925.18] Stephen: Put yourself in the bathtub and just hose yourself down and stay naked.
[2929.14] Stephen: See any way forward.
[2930.74] Curry: Oh, don't give us a visual image.
[2938.02] Curry: This, this is going to go out there on a tangent, but I feel like we've run out of stuff.
[2942.26] Curry: My, cannot visit those things.
[2945.62] Curry: And I thought, oh, she's a fantastic.
[2948.7] Jack: Is that what it's called?
[2949.38] Jack: Yes.
[2950.1] Jack: A fantastic, isn't it?
[2953.94] Frank: A Fantasia is a lack of being able to imagine something such as visual imagery.
[2961.74] Curry: And she doesn't believe that people can.
[2963.46] Curry: So when you say I can close my eyes, I can see that.
[2965.62] Curry: And she's like, don't be stupid.
[2967.02] Curry: All you can see is black.
[2968.38] Curry: There's nothing there.
[2970.1] Curry: I don't, when I close.
[2972.34] Stephen: Echoic memory, echoic memory, isn't the same as imagination.
[2976.18] Stephen: So if you're looking at something and you close your eyes, you should be able to conjure
[2979.62] Stephen: an image of the thing you're looking at.
[2981.02] Stephen: Just remembering.
[2982.18] Curry: No, she doesn't have to talk.
[2983.74] Curry: She can't do that.
[2984.46] Curry: It doesn't work.
[2985.58] Curry: And if you say you can, then she doesn't believe you.
[2988.06] Curry: She thinks everyone's lying.
[2989.9] Curry: And she gets occasionally sent on these like retreats with work and they're like, okay,
[2994.54] Curry: we're going to do a visualization session.
[2996.3] Curry: And she's just like, throws her hands in here.
[2998.06] Curry: Like, where's the no good leaves?
[3000.5] Jack: But when I close my eyes, I don't see black.
[3002.94] Jack: I get all like weird color patterns.
[3005.1] Jack: Oh yeah.
[3005.38] Curry: You can get like colors and stuff around the effect of things.
[3008.1] Curry: If you really concentrate on it, you can.
[3010.14] Jack: Yeah, but no, no, no, like when I close my eyes, I can literally see that.
[3016.1] Jack: Like it's like a weird sort of TV static that's colorful.
[3019.78] Curry: Interesting.
[3021.06] Stephen: I noticed that when it's very dark, I can see in quite well in the dark, but there's
[3025.86] Stephen: like a noise that becomes quite prevalent, like color spectals.
[3029.62] Frank: There's a good, curious cases with Rutherford and Fry episode about aphantasia.
[3036.82] Frank: Um, and I think that was the one as well, where I heard about this idea that there's,
[3043.14] Frank: there's kind of this spectrum that everyone lies on between aphantasia and
[3048.82] Frank: synesthesia and that they're like.
[3051.3] Curry: Synesthesia sounds awesome.
[3053.46] Curry: I'd love to see music bursting out in colors of bubble wrap.
[3058.46] Curry: And you're like, Oh, that tastes of strawberries.
[3060.58] Curry: Yeah.
[3060.74] Curry: The sound of the strawberries.
[3063.78] Curry: Caroline's loved one.
[3064.62] Curry: She can't do mental images either.
[3066.62] Curry: There's more people than you think.
[3069.02] Curry: Can't visualize.
[3071.42] Curry: It's really weird.
[3072.14] Curry: Cause I was like, what happens when you read a book?
[3075.38] Curry: Because if you can't see this thing happening before you, then it's just a bunch of words.
[3080.7] Curry: And she's like, yeah, what do you see?
[3083.18] Curry: I say, I see it like a film happening when I read a book.
[3086.86] Curry: Weird.
[3088.58] Stephen: Maybe this is why some people just don't go for books and they go for comic books
[3092.02] Stephen: instead, maybe that explains the difference.
[3098.42] Stephen: You just need it.
[3100.66] Jack: I find on the Fos friends, this or something.
[3104.18] Stephen: Lost friends.
[3106.5] Jack: Yeah, there you go.
[3108.74] Jack: It's kind of what I see.
[3111.62] Jack: Like a weird.
[3112.58] Curry: So you get like a test card essentially, like you used to think.
[3117.3] Jack: Yeah, it's a weird.
[3120.02] Jack: I think everything.
[3122.74] Jack: TV patterns.
[3124.06] Jack: Yeah, staticky.
[3125.14] Frank: You also get like music playing in your ears if you're sort of left in too quiet as well.
[3132.1] Jack: I know I do have a monologue as well.
[3137.54] Jack: What's his name?
[3139.22] Jack: It's very.
[3144.98] Jack: And sometimes it gets really annoying because it says the things I'm saying alongside what I'm saying them.
[3154.66] Jack: It's just kind of weird.
[3155.7] Jack: Yeah, it's pretty.
[3156.38] Jack: I've got like a bit of a double.
[3159.26] Stephen: Yeah.
[3160.34] Stephen: And it's a problem sometimes because it suggests bad things to say, inappropriate things to say.
[3167.02] Stephen: Oh, yeah.
[3169.66] Stephen: Work when people are being useless and they just have to sort of.
[3175.38] Jack: When he's had an industrial accident and is bleeding everywhere.
[3178.62] Jack: I wonder if paramedics are going to find it highly inappropriate if I start masturbating right now.
[3184.3] Jack: Or if you draw something in the blood.
[3189.78] Frank: Having exposed far too much of Steven and Jack's inner psyches on the show.
[3196.1] Frank: I think that's about time to call it, I think, guys.
[3200.46] Stephen: If you have an accident and you after you've called the ambulance for your friends, whatever you do, don't start doing an artwork in their blood.
[3208.82] Stephen: Never looks good.
[3210.38] Stephen: They'll just smudge it.
[3212.18] Jack: Jack, do you want to reheat this out?
[3218.1] Jack: I hope, Curry, you liked my hair tonight.
[3221.5] Curry: Very good.
[3222.02] Curry: It's early come over just in case it starts disappearing.
[3226.54] Jack: Yeah, it's really gone gray.
[3228.38] Jack: Frank took a photo of it.
[3229.62] Stephen: We want the full cure look next time, Jack, like, you know, full kind of goth face paint and, you know,
[3236.86] Jack: yeah, really, really that one's handy.
[3240.1] Curry: I think you should straighten it and bring back Janet.
[3243.86] Jack: Yeah, I can do it.
[3247.18] Jack: Anyway, you've been listening to that show now.
[3249.5] Jack: Thank you to all our lovely patrons who keep this show on the road.
[3256.1] Jack: We desperately need your help.
[3257.74] Jack: If you like this and you listen to it, audio only, and you like the fact it's lovely and edited and funny and well put together and there's no dead air and
[3268.98] Jack: I swear it's a beep to help.
[3270.5] Jack: Please consider becoming a Patreon.
[3272.86] Jack: You now and again sometimes get some bonus podcasts and interesting behind the scenes and get to a concert from the event and hair hair touch from me.
[3284.14] Jack: And sometimes you receive artworks of mine that you can put on your fridge.
[3288.5] Stephen: Draw a free cat.
[3291.58] Jack: Then yeah, much.
[3294.54] Jack: And you've been joined by everyone's favorite.
[3298.5] Jack: Bye.
[3299.54] Jack: The man will Mr.
[3300.58] Jack: Steven.
[3301.66] Jack: Thank you.
[3302.06] Jack: And good night.
[3303.74] Jack: I'll save you Frank.
[3305.58] Frank: Bye.
[3307.14] Jack: And I've been right to my fly.
[3309.14] Jack: Thank you.
[3309.78] Jack: And good night.
[3311.54] Stephen: Telemetry loss.